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Extraordinary Claims => Religion General Discussion => Islam => Topic started by: Contemporary Protestant on May 09, 2014, 11:35:24 PM

Title: Former Muslims?
Post by: Contemporary Protestant on May 09, 2014, 11:35:24 PM
Are there any former muslims here? Im getting a Quran Sunday and want some advice on how its supposed to be read
Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: Solitary on May 10, 2014, 01:31:33 AM
There were, and might still be here. If you can make any sense out of it let me know! All I see is every other page praising Allah. Allahu  Akbar!  Solitary
Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: Aletheia on May 10, 2014, 02:13:26 AM
If I remember correctly, the Quran requires additional books to make sense of it. There are also proclamations made on which commandments are to be followed and which are, for lack of a better word, outdated. It is a book that has been modified numerous times, very contradictory, and not particularly pleasant.

Best of luck to your reading. I was only able to read so far before I recoiled in disgust.
Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: Mr.Obvious on May 10, 2014, 02:56:48 AM
I'm not muslim, but I heard you're supposed to read it in the original language. Otherwise, it's not the Quran.
Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: StupidWiz on May 10, 2014, 04:36:49 AM
You must read it in Arabic or you'll get the "Quran can only be fully understood in Arabic language" argument from the Muslims.

Also, there's an additional guidebook to life called Al Hadits which is a compilation of how Muhammad. his family, friends and religious leaders at that time live their lives. Muslims assume that by following Muhammad, who is 100% guaranteed by Allah a place in Heaven, they'll have greater chance to get into Islamic Heaven as well.

Personally, I don't really give a shit anymore about Quran and Hadits. So, I can only give you this much of advice.
Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: Maldini on May 10, 2014, 05:47:07 AM
Yup, here.

It's a book full of laughable content. I agree with Muslims that translations don't do it justice, you can't fully get how vile and dull and disgusting most of it is without knowing Arabic.

There are parts about how Muslims have to hate non-Muslims, how they should hit their women if they disobey, how they should not treat the remaining of a defeated army with violence and  only enslave and rape them. I'm sure you'll get a kick out of it.

But I think you're a christian, so it's pretty much bullshit like your holy book.
Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: Aletheia on May 11, 2014, 04:28:17 AM
But I think you're a christian, so it's pretty much bullshit like your holy book.

The Quran is more of the action-thriller version of the bible. Just a little more gore and violence with even less plot development. It resembles Christianity, old-school style.

(http://freethinker.co.uk/images/uploads/2011/10/Crusader.jpg)
Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: robandrob1 on May 11, 2014, 06:18:52 AM
Are there any former muslims here? Im getting a Quran Sunday and want some advice on how its supposed to be read

It's supposed to be read with your bullshit detector firmly in the off position.  Otherwise you will ask lots of questions that Muslims don't like answering such as "Why does Allah have shins?", "Why does Allah place seals over people hearts and eyes to lead them astray and then blame them for going astray?" and  "Why does Allah think stars are in the 'lowest heaven?". 
Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: Contemporary Protestant on May 11, 2014, 04:44:15 PM
Just read the first two chapters, it's more black and white than the bible, and I'm confused, it says I worship the same God then says I'm going to hell then says Allah will spare those who worship him

I think it's too early to comment on, but I would appreciate an explanation

Any clarification on this Maldini?
Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: aitm on May 11, 2014, 04:51:31 PM
If you believe the bable you could very well believe this...be careful.....people who tend to believe idiotic bullshit are not exempt from other idiotic bullshit simply by believing in the previous.
Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: Maldini on May 12, 2014, 02:04:36 AM
Just read the first two chapters, it's more black and white than the bible, and I'm confused, it says I worship the same God then says I'm going to hell then says Allah will spare those who worship him

I think it's too early to comment on, but I would appreciate an explanation

Any clarification on this Maldini?

what do you mean by chapters? Because if you meant the first two Surahs that's like 80 pages and I have not memorized it, bring me verses and I'll tell you what's the meaning.

I've not read Bible so I don't know if it's the same, but Qur'an can be pretty confusing since the narrator constantly changes form third person to first person.  The very first Sura is actually a prayer, the next one is a long lecture by allah including many issues.

Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: inflection2495 on May 12, 2014, 11:40:25 AM
Hey there, I'm a former Muslim. When it comes to the Quran, a lot of Muslims would recommend you read it with commentaries and interpretations by "scholars". In reality, these commentaries are mostly sad attempts at explaining away inconsistencies and contradictions that one might find. I recommend you google "Skeptics annotated Quran", this  website goes verse by verse, pointing out different things through a skeptics lens. As pervious posters said, you will often hear "Oh glorious Quran is only comprehensible in Arabic"...So much for being a book for all of mankind, when the creator of the universe is too busy relaying fairy tales in a language only a small population of the world speaks.
Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: stromboli on May 12, 2014, 11:53:46 AM
Hey there, I'm a former Muslim. When it comes to the Quran, a lot of Muslims would recommend you read it with commentaries and interpretations by "scholars". In reality, these commentaries are mostly sad attempts at explaining away inconsistencies and contradictions that one might find. I recommend you google "Skeptics annotated Quran", this  website goes verse by verse, pointing out different things through a skeptics lens. As pervious posters said, you will often hear "Oh glorious Quran is only comprehensible in Arabic"...So much for being a book for all of mankind, when the creator of the universe is too busy relaying fairy tales in a language only a small population of the world speaks.

Very well said. we need more Ex-muslims on here.
Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: Berati on May 12, 2014, 12:57:44 PM
There were, and might still be here. If you can make any sense out of it let me know! All I see is every other page praising Allah. Allahu  Akbar!  Solitary

I'm not a Muslim but I have tried to learn as much as I could about Islam after the 9/11 attacks.
My take is that like other holy books it's a set of instructions that you are not allowed to question.

Overall, the point is submission. i.e. you submit to the will of allah, and allahs will is given to you by Mohammed. Like other holy books you are expected to believe that god has to have a middle man, that god secretly whispers into this persons ears, and that you better do exactly as this person says or he and his followers will fuck you up.

Another important concept is "abrogation" If any of the holy instructions contradict each other, you are supposed to obey the later passages instead of the earlier ones. This explains why many of the later passages that are very violent hold more sway. As islam gained power Mohamed suddenly found it convenient to start insisting that those in power get to call the shots.

The Hadith (stories of Mohameds life) are also very important. All Muslims are supposed to try and behave like Mohammed since he was the perfect example. Unfortunately he often behaves like a murderous terrorist, he takes sex slaves, he has boys beheaded, he is a pedophile, etc... and this obviously leads to very poor examples of how civilized people should behave.

Let me just make it clear that we need to separate Muslims from Islam. Like Christians, most Muslims don't bother to find out what is in their own holy books. 
The largest group being victimized by islam are Muslims.
Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: Maldini on May 12, 2014, 04:44:49 PM
Quote
The largest group being victimized by islam are Muslims.

Excellent statement.

You may not believe it, My family are not religious at all but they'll keep appearances and would still like to think of me as a Muslim despite me bashing Islam and its holy people constantly.

So at the age of 18 I thought It's time to take Islam seriously so I started reading Qur'an and that lead to me realizing it's all a hoax.

Almost all people that I knew who started reading Qur'an for empowering their faith ended up repulsed.

It's created by Muhammad, and lots of that stuff doesn't irritate Arab people because their culture at the time could easily tolerate the stuff in Qur'an, you could even argue that Qur'an did make them a better society at the time, but this is 2014 and civilization has progressed a lot since then.

Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: inflection2495 on May 13, 2014, 07:28:35 PM
Another important concept is "subrogation" If any of the holy instructions contradict each other, you are supposed to obey the later passages instead of the earlier ones. This explains why many of the later passages that are very violent hold more sway. As islam gained power Mohamed suddenly found it convenient to start insisting that those in power get to call the shots.

I've never heard of "subrogation" but I suspect you mean abrogation? Anyhow, you make a very excellent point! The author(s) of the Quran changed stance on several issues through out its authorship. The constant change of mind isn't the work of an infinitely intelligent mind. You mean to tell me the same being/entity that coded DNA wrote this gruesome fable book? Yea, sure.
Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: Thomoose on May 13, 2014, 09:06:55 PM
To me the Quran seems like a more disgusting version of the Bible, both are fake and contradict themselves a lot.
Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: Berati on May 14, 2014, 12:12:46 AM
I've never heard of "subrogation" but I suspect you mean abrogation? Anyhow, you make a very excellent point! The author(s) of the Quran changed stance on several issues through out its authorship. The constant change of mind isn't the work of an infinitely intelligent mind. You mean to tell me the same being/entity that coded DNA wrote this gruesome fable book? Yea, sure.

Yes, you are correct, I should have said abrogation.
I can't get work out of my brain. Subrogation is the right for an insurer to pursue a third party that caused an insurance loss to the insured.
Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: Berati on May 14, 2014, 12:22:07 AM
To me the Quran seems like a more disgusting version of the Bible, both are fake and contradict themselves a lot.

The old testament is every bit as morally repulsive, however it does have the peacnik Jesus figure to offset the depravity of the old testament.
Unfortunately there is no such countering force in the Quran.
I wrote an essay awhile back explaining why I thought that it isn't correct to simply lump all religions together like many liberals do.
I believe that the specifics of these ideologies have an effect on the followers. I'll post it if I still have a  copy somewhere.
Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: no-excuses on May 15, 2014, 03:52:33 AM
the Quran is best serve in Arabic but you can still be amused when translated. As a former Muslim I can't really imagine how a non-muslim who read Quran for the first time will receive it. It is a very depressing book with absolutely ill structure , very disorganized and random. You will find it hard to properly follow a story or a lecture without been distracted by unnecessary threats or promises.
bottom line try to imagine ,when you read it, the time and the place where Quran was written at, it will give you a clearer vision on what is ahead of you. 
Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: Savior2006 on May 15, 2014, 02:37:00 PM
I'm not a Muslim but I have tried to learn as much as I could about Islam after the 9/11 attacks.
My take is that like other holy books it's a set of instructions that you are not allowed to question.

Overall, the point is submission. i.e. you submit to the will of allah, and allahs will is given to you by Mohammed. Like other holy books you are expected to believe that god has to have a middle man, that god secretly whispers into this persons ears, and that you better do exactly as this person says or he and his followers will fuck you up.

Another important concept is "abrogation" If any of the holy instructions contradict each other, you are supposed to obey the later passages instead of the earlier ones. This explains why many of the later passages that are very violent hold more sway. As islam gained power Mohamed suddenly found it convenient to start insisting that those in power get to call the shots.

The Hadith (stories of Mohameds life) are also very important. All Muslims are supposed to try and behave like Mohammed since he was the perfect example. Unfortunately he often behaves like a murderous terrorist, he takes sex slaves, he has boys beheaded, he is a pedophile, etc... and this obviously leads to very poor examples of how civilized people should behave.

Let me just make it clear that we need to separate Muslims from Islam. Like Christians, most Muslims don't bother to find out what is in their own holy books. 
The largest group being victimized by islam are Muslims.


I went to a mosque once to cover the Muslim Student Association, not sure if I mentioned this once. Much of it I don't remember, but one thing I do remember is the imam priest dude saying (paraphrased): "God told people. 'I didn't make you because I was lonely. I didn't make you because I wanted company. I created you to worship me."

Hence the reason I will never convert to Islam, or any of the Abrahamic faiths. It's always the same thing. You have to spend the rest of your life telling a deity how great he is because he was too stupid to figure that out after making the ENTIRE universe.
Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: viocjit on May 20, 2014, 08:33:22 PM
I'm not a former Muslim or a Muslim. I'm only an ex-Christian who live in a Musiim Ghetto in France (there are between 20-40% of the poppulation in my neighboorhood) where the indigenous European are the majority (Indigenous French like me are a minority but I don't care). Even if this is a Muslim Ghetto you have few chance to be mobbed , robbed or killed. (I precise it because generally these zones contain a high rate of criminality).
If you want to know the reasons , you can ask me.

There are many manners to read it (I can't cite all of them).

The Islamic way :
You read it in Arabic with the help of a translation or not and you read the comments about these verses who was made by Muslim Scholars.
These comments are called tafsir (Arabic : تَفْسِير). This Arabic word can be translate by the
English word interpretation.
You can find these here (Unhappily those who was wrote by Ibn Kathir [Arabic : ابن كثير] aren't here) : http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=0&tSoraNo=1&tAyahNo=1&tDisplay=no&LanguageID=2 (http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=0&tSoraNo=1&tAyahNo=1&tDisplay=no&LanguageID=2)

A Skeptical way :
This the Skeptic's annotated Quran : http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/QuRAn/ (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/QuRAn/)

Your own.

PS : If you want I can write for you a dictionnary of Arabic term. I can also make a list of pro-Islam ressources and critic of Islam if you ask.
Title: Re: Former Muslims?
Post by: phattmatt on May 23, 2014, 09:57:27 PM
the Quran is best serve in Arabic but you can still be amused when translated. As a former Muslim I can't really imagine how a non-muslim who read Quran for the first time will receive it. It is a very depressing book with absolutely ill structure , very disorganized and random. You will find it hard to properly follow a story or a lecture without been distracted by unnecessary threats or promises.
bottom line try to imagine ,when you read it, the time and the place where Quran was written at, it will give you a clearer vision on what is ahead of you.
thank you!  I'm glad u noticed that.  I always wondered if muslims actually found the koran to be coherent.