Atheistforums.com

Extraordinary Claims => Religion General Discussion => Islam => Topic started by: Valigarmander on March 31, 2014, 07:25:23 PM

Title: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: Valigarmander on March 31, 2014, 07:25:23 PM
https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/03/20/saudi-arabia-new-terrorism-regulations-assault-rights
Quote
(Beirut) – Saudi Arabia’s new terrorism law and a series of related royal decrees create a legal framework that appears to criminalize virtually all dissident thought or expression as terrorism. The sweeping provisions in the measures, all issued since January 2014, threaten to close down altogether Saudi Arabia’s already extremely restricted space for free expression.

“Saudi authorities have never tolerated criticism of their policies, but these recent laws and regulations turn almost any critical expression or independent association into crimes of terrorism,” said Joe Stork, deputy Middle East and North Africa director at Human Rights Watch. “These regulations dash any hope that King Abdullah intends to open a space for peaceful dissent or independent groups.”

The new regulations come amid a campaign to silence independent activists and peaceful dissidents through intimidation, investigations, arrests, prosecutions, and imprisonment. On March 9, the prominent human rights activists Abdullah al-Hamid and Mohammed al-Qahtani completed their first year in prison, serving 11 and 10-year sentences, respectively, for criticizing the government’s human rights abuses and for membership in an unlicensed political and civil rights organization.

Two other human rights activists, Waleed Abu al-Khair and Mikhlif al-Shammari, recently lost appeals and will probably begin their three-month and five-year respective sentences soon for criticizing Saudi authorities.

On January 31, Saudi authorities promulgated the Penal Law for Crimes of Terrorism and its Financing (the “terrorism law”). The law has serious flaws, including vague and overly broad provisions that allow authorities to criminalize free expression, and the creation of excessive police powers without judicial oversight. The law cites violence as an essential element only in reference to attacks carried out against Saudis outside the kingdom or onboard Saudi transportation carriers. Inside the kingdom, “terrorism” can be non-violent – consisting of “any act” intended to, among other things, “insult the reputation of the state,” “harm public order,” or “shake the security of society,” which the law fails to clearly define.

On February 3, two days after the terrorism law came into force, King Abdullah issued Royal Decree 44, which criminalizes “participating in hostilities outside the kingdom” with prison sentences of between three and 20 years. On March 7, the Interior Ministry issued further regulations designating an initial list of groups the government considers terrorist organizations, including the Muslim Brotherhood and the Houthi group in Yemen, along with “Al-Qaeda, Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, Al-Qaeda in Yemen, Al-Qaeda in Iraq, Da`ish [the Islamic State of Iraq and Sham, or ISIS], Jabhat al-Nusra, and Hezbollah inside the kingdom.”

The interior ministry regulations include other sweeping provisions that authorities can use to criminalize virtually any expression or association critical of the government and its understanding of Islam. These “terrorism” provisions include the following:

Article 1: “Calling for atheist thought in any form, or calling into question the fundamentals of the Islamic religion on which this country is based.”
Article 2: “Anyone who throws away their loyalty to the country’s rulers, or who swears allegiance to any party, organization, current [of thought], group, or individual inside or outside [the kingdom].”
Article 4: “Anyone who aids [“terrorist”] organizations, groups, currents [of thought], associations, or parties, or demonstrates affiliation with them, or sympathy with them, or promotes them, or holds meetings under their umbrella, either inside or outside the kingdom; this includes participation in audio, written, or visual media; social media in its audio, written, or visual forms; internet websites; or circulating their contents in any form, or using slogans of these groups and currents [of thought], or any symbols which point to support or sympathy with them.”
Article 6: “Contact or correspondence with any groups, currents [of thought], or individuals hostile to the kingdom.”
Article 8: “Seeking to shake the social fabric or national cohesion, or calling, participating, promoting, or inciting sit-ins, protests, meetings, or group statements in any form, or anyone who harms the unity or stability of the kingdom by any means.”
Article 9: “Attending conferences, seminars, or meetings inside or outside [the kingdom] targeting the security of society, or sowing discord in society.”
Article 11: “Inciting or making countries, committees, or international organizations antagonistic to the kingdom.”
These broad provisions contain language that prosecutors and judges are already using to prosecute and convict independent activists and peaceful dissidents, Human Rights Watch said.

Al-Qahtani and al-Hamid’s convictions included charges such as “breaking allegiance with the ruler,” “slandering the religiosity and integrity of the Supreme Council of Religious Scholars,” “sowing discord,” and “attempting to shake the internal security of the country by calling for demonstrations.” The new terrorism regulations classify several of these charges as acts of terrorism.

Other members of their organization, the Saudi Civil and Political Rights Association (ACPRA), are serving sentences for convictions on similar charges, including Mohammed al-Bajadi, Omar al-Saeed, and Abd al-Kareem al-Khodr. A jailed member, Fowzan al-Harbi, is on trial before the Riyadh Criminal Court on charges that include “participating in calling for and inciting breaking allegiance with the ruler,” “explicit libel of the integrity and religiosity of the Supreme Council of Religious Scholars,” “participating in setting up an unlicensed organization” – namely, ACPRA – “publishing details of his investigation,” and “describing the ruling Saudi regime – unjustly – as a police state.”

In the March 9 case, the Saudi Press Agency (SPA) reported, a Saudi appeals court upheld an eight-year sentence for a Saudi citizen for “his involvement in inciting [family members] of detainees in security cases to demonstrations and sit-ins through producing, storing, and sending tweets, video clips on YouTube, and social networking sites,” as well as “his sarcasm toward the ruler of the kingdom and its religious authorities.”

On March 10, the SPA reported the conviction of another man, with a 10-year prison sentence and a 100,000 riyal fine ($26,600), for “engaging in following, saving, and resending inciting tweets on the social networking site (Twitter) against the rulers, religious scholars, and government agencies and his connection to people who call themselves reformists…”

Another human rights activist, Fadhil al-Manasif, who played a leading role in documenting abuses against demonstrators in the Eastern Province in 2011, is on trial for “sowing discord,” “inciting public opinion against the state,” and “communicating with foreign news agencies to exaggerate news and harm the reputation of the kingdom.”

And Riyadh-based human rights activists, Mohammed al-Otaibi and Abdullah al-Attawi, who came under investigation in April 2013 for co-founding a new human rights organization – The Union for Human Rights – face a new investigation based on their human rights activities.

Article 32 of the Arab Charter on Human Rights, to which Saudi Arabia is party, guarantees the right to freedom of opinion and expression, and to impart news to others by any means. Article 28 guarantees the rights to peaceful assembly and association.

While protecting public order and national security are recognized in international human rights law as legitimate purposes for limiting certain rights under narrow and clearly-defined circumstances, vague and overly broad legal provisions cannot be the basis for overriding a broad array of fundamental rights. Provisions of Saudi Arabia’s new terrorism regulations that deny any ability to exercise basic rights of peaceful assembly, association, and expression greatly exceed any notion of justifiable restrictions, Human Rights Watch said.

Commenting on article 6 of the regulation, one activist told Human Rights Watch on March 12: “Just talking to you now is considered terrorism – I could be prosecuted as a terrorist for this conversation.”
I guess this makes us all enemies of the Saudi state.
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on March 31, 2014, 07:36:42 PM
And yet US presidents from Roosevelt onward have been more than willing to lick the royal rectum on demand.
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: Hydra009 on March 31, 2014, 07:42:00 PM
That's weird.  Last time I checked, atheism precluded religious terrorism.  Kinda hard to martyr yourself for a god you don't believe in.
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: StupidWiz on March 31, 2014, 08:06:20 PM
Gotta love theocracies.
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: Cocoa Beware on March 31, 2014, 08:32:41 PM
https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/03/20/saudi-arabia-new-terrorism-regulations-assault-rightsI guess this makes us all enemies of the Saudi state.

This is indicative of a major societal problem within Islam that has nothing to do with extremism and would be foolish to dismiss or ignore.

A lot of these nations are led by pious dickheads who make every effort to pull the wool over the eyes of their respective populations from birth and attempt to incite bitter hatred towards the many peoples and nations they are taught to believe are enemies.

As opposed to terrorism, this is something I find a lot more unsettling. This means you have stuff like Mickey Mouse teaching kids to despise Jews on public television.
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: stromboli on March 31, 2014, 09:25:59 PM
 :wtff:
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on March 31, 2014, 09:51:47 PM
Terrorism is being equated with opposing the view of those in power so there is no possible descentfrom percieved norms . It's become more useful to those in power than the pulpit because terror is a word that conjures images of hundreds dying in the streets whereas the pulpit can only really conjure up images of eternal torture in the afterlife. Terror has become defined in people's minds as a real and present danger as an ideology to be feared under ALL circumstances, but only when coming from the opposition.
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: SGOS on March 31, 2014, 09:58:53 PM
Just as I thought.  The place is a political and religious shithole.
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on March 31, 2014, 10:07:51 PM
Just as I thought.  The place is a political and religious shithole.
and the political classes here kiss the royal ass at every turn.
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: Jason78 on April 01, 2014, 05:12:07 AM
I guess this makes us all enemies of the Saudi state.

Everything is now terrorism.

Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: josephpalazzo on April 01, 2014, 11:52:48 AM
If you ever go there, all you need to do is repeat every 5 minutes or so, "Allah is great", and you'll be fine.

EDIT: It's no different than saying, "Superman is great".
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on April 01, 2014, 12:44:05 PM
Atheism is the new terrorism?
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: follower_of_jesus on April 03, 2014, 02:10:31 PM
I am not one to agree with moslims, but this is something I think would be wise to pass here in America. atheists think they can say what they want and rudely insult the bible and Jesus. It is not much different than terrorism except the use words as their weapons. If they don't believe in God so much why don't they get the hell out and form their own atheist country. I'll tell ya why. Without God's blessing and grace that country will fail, that is why America is failing thanks to the atheists.
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on April 03, 2014, 02:34:38 PM
You heard it here first guys, America is failing and it's OUR fault!

It's a good thing follower can spell moslim, huh?
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: stromboli on April 03, 2014, 03:23:16 PM
Yessir, a new definition of terrorism from the good people who gave us Osama Bin Laden. Not believing is an act of terror.

This is the equivalent of going to Ohio and Pennsylvania and declaring the Amish as terrorists because they don't watch television.
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: Cocoa Beware on April 03, 2014, 09:32:42 PM
I am not one to agree with moslims, but this is something I think would be wise to pass here in America. atheists think they can say what they want and rudely insult the bible and Jesus. It is not much different than terrorism except the use words as their weapons. If they don't believe in God so much why don't they get the hell out and form their own atheist country. I'll tell ya why. Without God's blessing and grace that country will fail, that is why America is failing thanks to the atheists.

Unless the constitution had a typo and there is no freedom of religion, your request is a ridiculous joke.

Ill tell you what. Since you have the problem you can move, because thats the only realistic way we will ever be separated.  I hear Greenland is nice.
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: Hydra009 on April 03, 2014, 11:21:05 PM
atheists think they can say what they want and rudely insult the bible and Jesus. It is not much different than terrorism except the use words as their weapons.
Blasphemy is almost like terrorism in the same way that apples are almost like aircraft carriers.

Quote
If they don't believe in God so much why don't they get the hell out and form their own atheist country.
If you don't like living near atheists, you don't have to.  I hear Saudi Arabia is nice this time of the year.
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: PickelledEggs on April 04, 2014, 02:38:44 AM
I hate to be possibly playing devil's advocate (almost as much as I hate using that phrase) but I kind of like the idea of me being thought of as a terrorist in the eyes of an islamic country.


Here is why: Basically that isn't muslim is a terrorist to them. Seem familiar to anyone? *cough cough* The U.S.'s view on islamic countries *cough cough* (or at least most of the U.S.'s view from what I've seen in media and conservative view) I know that not every muslim is a terrorist. I know a lot of people in islamic countries don't even like all that violence. I've talked to them via social networks. And while I know that a lot of people are peaceful folk, I can now officially relate to another culture on a whole extra level. Because now, the same way this country generalizes their islamic countries for being terrorists, they are calling us terrorists for having beliefs, or in our case for being atheist, lack of belief that challenges their beliefs.

We are now 2 countries that are calling each other terrorists. Maybe in a way both countries are right.
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: Maldini on April 11, 2014, 02:11:08 AM
And people think it's not OK to hate Muslims, the majority are pricks so fuck them all.
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: Jason78 on April 11, 2014, 06:24:24 AM
This is the equivalent of going to Ohio and Pennsylvania and declaring the Amish as terrorists because they don't watch television.

Those monsters!
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: doorknob on April 12, 2014, 09:00:02 PM
I never knew I was a terrorist. Well guess I'll convert to Islam now. I don't want to terrorize them with my thoughts.
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: PickelledEggs on April 13, 2014, 02:47:22 PM
I never knew I was a terrorist. Well guess I'll convert to Islam now. I don't want to terrorize them with my thoughts.
If I ever find myself in a predicament where I have to talk my way out of being incarcerated in Saudi Arabia for not being one of them, I could aways just pretend I'm muslim and I can use my mom's maiden name.
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: rex on April 26, 2014, 09:16:39 PM
If I ever find myself in a predicament where I have to talk my way out of being incarcerated in Saudi Arabia for not being one of them, I could aways just pretend I'm muslim and I can use my mom's maiden name.
The fact that you must hide means they win.
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: PickelledEggs on April 26, 2014, 09:24:56 PM
I'm rarely anything less than blunt with what I believe in, but if it came down to being honest about my beliefs and dying/being put in prison overseas versus shutting up and surviving, I'll take the latter.

They don't win if they don't permanently shut you up.

Man that fights and runs away lives to fight another day.
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: La Dolce Vita on May 01, 2014, 07:04:33 AM
No wonder Saudi Arabia condemns Norway for breaking human rights!
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: The Skeletal Atheist on May 03, 2014, 04:26:48 AM
Another good reason I'm never going to Saudi Arabia. We should just make a list of reasons not to go:

It's hot in the summer.
Rural infrastructure leaves much to be desired.
Very dry from what I hear.
No booze.
No sodomy unless you're part of the underground subculture.
No booze.
No booze.
No booze.
No booze.
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: Hydra009 on May 03, 2014, 09:48:57 AM
Another good reason I'm never going to Saudi Arabia. We should just make a list of reasons not to go:

It's hot in the summer.
Rural infrastructure leaves much to be desired.
Very dry from what I hear.
No booze.
No sodomy unless you're part of the underground subculture.
No booze.
No booze.
No booze.
No booze.
Basically, it's like Texas without booze.  :P
Title: Re: New Saudi Arabian law equates atheism with terrorism
Post by: DunkleSeele on May 03, 2014, 03:57:28 PM
Another good reason I'm never going to Saudi Arabia. We should just make a list of reasons not to go:

It's hot in the summer.
Rural infrastructure leaves much to be desired.
Very dry from what I hear.
No booze.
No sodomy unless you're part of the underground subculture.
No booze.
No booze.
No booze.
No booze.
Yes, but roads are safe! :cool:
(running for cover...)