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Humanities Section => Political/Government General Discussion => Topic started by: AllPurposeAtheist on February 06, 2014, 08:28:34 AM

Title: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on February 06, 2014, 08:28:34 AM
Several states now allow private, for profit companies collect fees from people who are put on probation in lieu of jail time, usually minor offenses. On the surface it might seem like a good idea and a way for local courts to save money administering probation, but scratch ever so slightly under the slimy film and it's real ugly. For some it can become permanent financial servitude.
http://http://m.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/02/the-private-probation-problem-is-worse-than-anyone-thought/283589/
Title: Re: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: stromboli on February 06, 2014, 09:47:06 AM
My son was busted for possession way back when and then for having an open container in his vehicle. Ended up in the legal mill, having to do weekly drug testing, talk to a "counselor" or whatever for nearly two years. What a crock. He had to pay for all of that. Utah isn't nearly as bad as other states, but there is a whole invisible industry around the criminal justice system involving these businesses.

The Justice court- now gone, thank goodness- is based totally on the idea that lower income people can't afford lawyers. They basically get shafted by the court system and put into this mill that forces them to pay out money they can't afford and keep them in it for sometimes years. Those who can afford lawyers walk, pure and simple.
Title: Re: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on February 06, 2014, 09:56:05 AM
I'm glad I was only getting in trouble when I was younger before this bullshit all started. A friend here at the Y has been on probation for over 3 years and has paid thousands out in fees.  It's utter horseshit.
Title: Re: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: Mister Agenda on February 06, 2014, 11:09:00 AM
Even worse, it's an incentive to commit crimes to pay the fees.
Title: Re: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on February 06, 2014, 12:19:00 PM
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"
Several states now allow private, for profit companies collect fees from people who are put on probation in lieu of jail time, usually minor offenses. On the surface it might seem like a good idea and a way for local courts to save money administering probation, but scratch ever so slightly under the slimy film and it's real ugly. For some it can become permanent financial servitude.
http://http://m.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/02/the-private-probation-problem-is-worse-than-anyone-thought/283589/

It's not private, it's contracted. (http://http://aynrkey.blogspot.com/2009/06/privatization-versus-sub-contracting.html)
Title: Re: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: Thumpalumpacus on February 06, 2014, 12:50:08 PM
The administration of justice ought to be a purely governmental function, staffed by government employees.
Title: Re: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on February 06, 2014, 02:30:01 PM
Quote from: "Jason_Harvestdancer"
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"
Several states now allow private, for profit companies collect fees from people who are put on probation in lieu of jail time, usually.r offenses. On the surface it might seem like a good idea and a way for local courts to save money administering probation, but scratch ever so slightly under the slimy film and it's real ugly. For some it can become permanent financial servitude.
http://http://m.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/02/the-private-probation-problem-is-worse-than-anyone-thought/283589/

It's not private, it's contracted. (http://http://aynrkey.blogspot.com/2009/06/privatization-versus-sub-contracting.html)
You majored in hair splitting didn't you?
It's run by and administered by private, for profit corporations who have absolutely no concern for justice or the well being of the people in their charge or the people who "contract" them. They're fucking collection agencies AT BEST.
Title: Re: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: Solitary on February 06, 2014, 03:31:12 PM
Who decided to privatize everything the government should run and control? One guess. When I was working in the school district here they wanted to privatize maintenance. It didn't work and they lost money because they had to replace all the roofing etc. But that's just what they wanted so they could have their friends do it just like they did the maintenance and get kickbacks after the government paid for it with our taxes.  It's all a big scam, and really money laundering.  :evil:  Solitary
Title: Re: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on February 06, 2014, 03:58:47 PM
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"
Quote from: "Jason_Harvestdancer"
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"
Several states now allow private, for profit companies collect fees from people who are put on probation in lieu of jail time, usually.r offenses. On the surface it might seem like a good idea and a way for local courts to save money administering probation, but scratch ever so slightly under the slimy film and it's real ugly. For some it can become permanent financial servitude.
http://http://m.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/02/the-private-probation-problem-is-worse-than-anyone-thought/283589/

It's not private, it's contracted. (http://http://aynrkey.blogspot.com/2009/06/privatization-versus-sub-contracting.html)
You majored in hair splitting didn't you?
It's run by and administered by private, for profit corporations who have absolutely no concern for justice or the well being of the people in their charge or the people who "contract" them. They're fucking collection agencies AT BEST.

They are private and for profit.  Their whole customer base is the government.  Some of them have multiple customers, which means multiple state, city, and county governments.  They do not have a single private customer and would not exist without their government customers.

A private business has private customers.
Title: Re: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: billhilly on February 06, 2014, 08:29:44 PM
That shit isn't anymore "private" than the mandatory drug/alcohol classes the courts sentence people to or the AA meetings, or any other rent seeking fucks sponging off the shit that drips down from the very public courts these days.  Fuckin leeches the lot of em.
Title: Re: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on February 06, 2014, 08:38:18 PM
Fuck jason..you think you're technically correct about everything..it must be that libertarian gene shit.. You better see a doctor about that. :roll:
Title: Re: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: billhilly on February 06, 2014, 08:43:40 PM
Except that he is correct about this.  For profit, private business in collusion with the government to fuck people over.  if only there was a word for that kind of activity.
Title: Re: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: barbarian on February 06, 2014, 10:27:05 PM
Quote from: "billhilly"
Except that he is correct about this.  For profit, private business in collusion with the government to fuck people over.  if only there was a word for that kind of activity.

its called extortion...
Title: Re: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: Solitary on February 07, 2014, 11:35:10 AM
So there is no difference between a government run program and a private one connected to the government? Give me a break! When the government does it the money is not made and tax money supports it. When it is privatized the government still pays into it and the company gets to charge for their services and skim off the top and make a profit. Typical Republican scam. Think Halliburton, and the Air Controllers with the attack on Unions so they don't have to pay as much in wages and benefits to create more jobs.  :evil:  Solitary
Title: Re: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: Thumpalumpacus on February 07, 2014, 05:18:36 PM
Oddly enough, NPR had a story about this very issue this afternoon. (http://http://www.wbur.org/npr/273041871/does-probation-for-profit-criminalize-poverty) It reinforced the feeling I expressed in my first post, that justice ought to be an exclusive function of government.  The reportage including allegations of padding the bills of probationers with fees for non-court-ordered tracking devices, and jailing of probationers who'd paid more than what had been ordered by the court -- simply because they hadn't paid the "service fee" charged by the gaolers -- er, probation company.

This is a function of society that should only be performed by the government, because with the involvement of taxpayer money, we have the involvement of the taxpayer.  Just as we should accept responsibility for the flawed death-penalty system which has executed innocent people in the name of us, the People, so should the proper administration of justice be done in our name, and only for the purpose of cleansing society of these elements -- not for venal profit. I would include privately-run prisons in this opinion, too.

Put shortly, paying someone to punish someone else is a sure way to inflict injustice in the name of money.
Title: Re: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: zarus tathra on February 07, 2014, 06:03:32 PM
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"
Fuck jason..you think you're technically correct about everything..it must be that libertarian gene shit.. You better see a doctor about that. :roll:

Yes, libertarians have this "We're technically right, the best kind of right" attitude about them, but there's little evidence that the Feds wouldn't be just as bad, if not worse, if they were doing this without contractors.
Title: Re: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on February 08, 2014, 02:26:53 AM
Zarus, you're a Jason clone aren't you? it wouldn't surprise me one bit if liberatarians favored contracting a company out at tax payer expense to rewrite the constitution to better reflect the desires of market forces.
Title: Re: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on February 08, 2014, 09:14:06 AM
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"
Zarus, you're a Jason clone aren't you? it wouldn't surprise me one bit if liberatarians favored contracting a company out at tax payer expense to rewrite the constitution to better reflect the desires of market forces.

(http://http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h103/piz3/Discussion/strawman.jpg) (http://http://media.photobucket.com/user/piz3/media/Discussion/strawman.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: zarus tathra on February 08, 2014, 12:16:13 PM
Fuck no, I'm a technocrat/pragmatist. Every command economy we've seen so far has been a failure. There's a chance that one could work with modern-day artificial intelligence and real-time monitoring of hundreds of thousands of economic and sociological indicators, but I wouldn't trust the average bureaucrat to be able to multiply two 3-digit numbers by hand, much less understand even the basics of such a system.
Title: Re: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on February 08, 2014, 03:32:34 PM
Whatever..the topic really isn't about your hardons for privatizing everything. It's about fundamental justice.
Title: Re: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: Thumpalumpacus on February 08, 2014, 03:59:39 PM
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"
Whatever..the topic really isn't about your hardons for privatizing everything. It's about fundamental justice.

Exactly.  I'm a libertarian, and I am firmly against this contracting-out of justice.

Not only do we think that government does have purpose, many of us also believe that some jobs are solely the job of the public government.
Title: Re: The scam of 'private probation'
Post by: zarus tathra on February 08, 2014, 04:59:25 PM
More specifically, probably a democratic government with strong constitutional controls and a well-armed public. Although it would be really interesting to see what would happen if the "justice" system ceased to exist altogether in any form, public or private. Belgium's government collapsed and precisely nothing happened, so in all likelihood things would go on more or less as they always have.