http://www.alternet.org/belief/10-thing ... ibly-wrong (http://www.alternet.org/belief/10-things-traditional-christians-got-terribly-wrong)
Quote1) Slavery. Both sides of the American slavery debate claimed to be speaking from profound Christian conviction. The Bible clearly has a positive view of slavery, something pro-slavery Christians routinely pointed out. Abolitionists took a broader, less literal view of the Bible. Unsurprising that this divide led to the South being, to this day, home of the most people who take a literalist, fundamentalist view of Christianity.
Of course, nowadays you can't find even the most literalist fan of the Bible who is willing to agree with their predecessors in the 19th century who believed the Bible endorsed slavery. Of the many things conservative Christians have gotten wrong over the years, the pro-slavery argument is probably the one that is least likely to be revived by modern fundamentalists.
2) Women's suffrage. Unsurprisingly, conservative Christianity was hostile to women's suffrage, just as it's been hostile to women's progress every step of the way. Women's "God-given" roles were routinely referenced in arguments against giving women the right to vote, such as when Susan Fenimore Cooper—daughter of James Fenimore Cooper–wrote in Harper's that "Christianity confirms the subordinate position of woman, by allotting to man the headship in plain language and by positive precept."
While the argument is clearly wrong in retrospect and disavowed by most modern conservatives, there are still some Christian conservatives who continue to believe that the issue isn't resolved and should still be up for debate.
3) Evolution. From the second it became evident that the Biblical story of creation was wrong and life on earth evolved over millions of years of random mutation, many Christians were aghast and resisted the truth getting out as hard as they could. Because of this, there have been multiple times throughout history where Christians embarrassed themselves by being wrong in a dramatic courtroom setting. The Scopes monkey trial is the most famous, but the Dover trial of 2005 over the teaching of intelligent design in schools is up there in terms of sheer humor. The Republican-appointed judge even went so far as to describe the Christian conservative defenders of creationism as liars pushing a theory of "breathtaking inanity."
4) Pain relief for childbirth. The Bible explicitly lays out pain in childbirth as Eve's punishment for sin, so unsurprisingly, that's what many Christians in the 19th century believed had to be so. Once reliable pain relief in childbirth began to be developed, therefore, there was a lot of resistance to it from Christians who feared it defied God to let women have some relief. The truth is that pain in childbirth is not a punishment from God, but the product of evolution, which is a far from perfect process. Eventually, the argument that women owed it to God to suffer through childbirth faded to the fringes of right-wing Christianity. "Natural" childbirth has seen a resurgence in popularity in the secular world since the 1960s, but that was more of a reaction to some medical overreach than a belief that women are sinful and deserve to suffer.
5) Catholics. Modern American conservative Protestants embrace Catholics and have even started to borrow some Catholic arguments against things like abortion and contraception. But in the early 19th and 20th centuries, there was widespread anti-Catholic sentiment, much of it tied up in hostility to Catholic immigrants. There was even an anti-Catholic political party in the early 19th century. Catholics were viewed as idolaters and drunkards by many Protestants, but by far the most bizarre relic of anti-Catholic paranoia is the fear that evil shenanigans were going on in nunneries. A woman writing under the pseudonym "Maria Monk" penned a best-selling book where she claimed to have escaped a convent where she was forced to be a sex slave and pressed into the act of killing babies and hiding their corpses. Needless to say, none of her accusations should be taken as anything approaching true. Anti-Catholic paranoia also led to another Christian-led folly...
6) Prohibition. Hostility to Catholic immigrants was a large part of the reason temperance mania took over many Protestant communities in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Despite the fact that Jesus was a wine drinker, abstinence from alcohol—and forcing abstinence on others by force of law—became a major Christian cause during this period, leading up to Prohibition. This was true, even though many in the temperance movement were also aligned with the suffragist cause, making Prohibition one of the few Christian follies that weighs as heavily on the progressive Christian tradition as it does the conservative one. Luckily, it took little more than a decade for the bigtime error that was banning alcohol to be fixed.
7) Segregation. Religious leaders like Martin Luther King Jr. led the desegregation movement, but it's also important to note that the pro-segregation movement was also conceived as a Christian one. Arguments against "race mixing" were largely framed in religious terms. The judge who initially ruled against the interracial couple in Loving v. Virginia argued that the "Almighty God" put people on separate continents and "did not intend for the races to mix." Christian right leader Jerry Falwell got his start fighting to uphold segregation, giving sermons about how integration was offensive to God. As Max Blumenthal noted in the Nation, the modern religious right as we know it started off as a movement to defend segregation.
8) Contraception. From the beginning of the "birth control movement," Christian conservatives fought to keep women from being able to have sex without getting pregnant. Devout Christian Anthony Comstock successfully convinced Congress in 1872 that contraception was ungodly, leading to a federal ban on sharing birth control information across state lines. This was finally repealed in 1936. In 1963, the Supreme Court ended anti-contraception laws for married women. Finally, in 1971, the Supreme Court also eliminated the last of the god-bothering anti-contraception laws banning birth control for single people. Nowadays, 99 percent of sexually active women have used contraception at some point in their lives.
9) School prayer. Along with supporting segregation and opposing feminism, the third issue that created the modern religious right is the issue of prayer in public schools. In 1961 , the Supreme Court ruled against school-led prayers, even if they were supposedly voluntary. Instead of giving up a chance to use schools as a way to foist their beliefs on the unwilling, the religious right spent and continues to spend the next 50-plus years trying to find some way to sneak religious indoctrination/bullying of non-believers into public schools. They've attempted to sneak it in by having students lead it, as if that makes it less coercive. Recently, in Rhode Island , they tried to sneak it in by having it written on a wall instead of recited. Most attempts fail in court. Even though there's no evidence that these bullying tactics have ever converted anyone to their faith, they keep trying.
10) Marriage equality. The religious right is still fighting like it's not obvious that they're wrong on this one. The tide is shifting so fast it's quickly becoming apparent that this issue, like segregation, is going to be one where they'll be pretending they didn't fight so hard for the side of wrong in a few decades. The majority of Americans now support same-sex marriage. Illinois is becoming the 15th state to authorize it. The momentum is in the direction of justice, and as gay rights proponents said from the beginning, Christian conservatives are, as with most things, on the wrong side of history.
And so it goes.......
Also, the idea that the world and its people are "fallen" from some mythic utopia. That never happened.
And the always soon-to-be Rapture.
Oh, and the idea of hereditary sin. And sin in general. (The seven deadly sins aren't actually all that bad. Most are just normal emotions which only become a problem in excess)
Ten only ten are you kidding? Over 2000 plus years of judeo-christian hypocracy and lies and there is only ten things on this list?!
How about:
"manafest destiny?"
Genocide.
Dominion over nature and all the animals...which led to nonwhites being classified as animals!
Prayer!
Everthing revolves around the Earth.
The Earth is flat.
God's will.
I know that in your OP you actually left room for these but I thought I would bring them out.
11. Your war on Christmas didn't mention all these bazillion stupid fucking xmas commercials. They still get that wrong. :)
QuoteThe Scopes monkey trial is the most famous
The Christians won that trial even if they were wrong. Solitary
The Rapture is the biggest load of BS in my book. I read a very authoritative book by a Jewish scholar that destroyed that belief. It was never taught by anyone in the Bible, and dates mostly from an 1827 Dispensationalist named John Darby. Every scripture implied as proof can be interpreted differently, and previously was.
From Dailykos:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/08/0 ... -Doctrine# (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/08/08/234333/-History-of-Rapture-Doctrine#)
Quote from: "mykcob4"Ten only ten are you kidding? Over 2000 plus years of judeo-christian hypocracy and lies and there is only ten things on this list?!
How about:
"manafest destiny?"
Genocide.
Dominion over nature and all the animals...which led to nonwhites being classified as animals!
Prayer!
Everthing revolves around the Earth.
The Earth is flat.
God's will.
I know that in your OP you actually left room for these but I thought I would bring them out.
LMAO! :rollin: I'm with mykcob. I was about to say, "Only 10???" haha
Those are at least the 10 big ones in this day and age that are relevant.
The supposed "existence" of "god" is something that it got wrong too.
Quote from: "Atheon"The supposed "existence" of "god" is something that it got wrong too.
The main mistake of Christianity is that .
Quote from: "stromboli"1) Slavery... The Bible clearly has a positive view of slavery, something pro-slavery Christians routinely pointed out. Abolitionists took a broader, less literal view of the Bible. Unsurprising that this divide led to the South being, to this day, home of the most people who take a literalist, fundamentalist view of Christianity.
Bible has a positive view of slavery?! Where exactly in the Bible does it say?
Quote from: "stromboli"3) Evolution. From the second it became evident that the Biblical story of creation was wrong
What is wrong more particularly, please?
Quote from: "stromboli"4) Pain relief for childbirth. The Bible explicitly lays out pain in childbirth as Eve's punishment for sin, so unsurprisingly, that's what many Christians in the 19th century believed had to be so. Once reliable pain relief in childbirth began to be developed, therefore, there was a lot of resistance to it from Christians who feared it defied God to let women have some relief. The truth is that pain in childbirth is not a punishment from God, but the product of evolution, which is a far from perfect process.
Amen. God didn't say that pain in childbirth is a punishment. God said through His Prophets that death is punishment for sin. Death, not pain in childbirth
Quote from: "stromboli"10) Marriage equality... The majority of Americans now support same-sex marriage. Illinois is becoming the 15th state to authorize it. The momentum is in the direction of justice, and as gay rights proponents said from the beginning, Christian conservatives are, as with most things, on the wrong side of history.
Gay marriage is sin in eyes of God of Israel or Jehovah. I am on God's side.
:-D
QuoteBible has a positive view of slavery?! Where exactly in the Bible does it say?
All throughout; it's riddled with rules on how to treat slaves, who can be kept as slaves, etc. The rules aren't very nice towards the slaves. And at no point in the Bible does it ever mention anything about it being wrong; it's just accepted that slaves are held. (Because those were the morals of the time, and that's what the Bible teaches, and we've come far since then.)
QuoteWhat is wrong more particularly, please?
If you want to know about evolution, take a high school class in evolutionary biology. If you want to know what's wrong about the bible's story, take that same class, then compare with the Bible. Anything that doesn't match up with what the class taught you is wrong.
QuoteGay marriage is sin in eyes of God of Israel or Jehovah. I am on God's side.
What's wrong with gay marriage, other than "because 2000 years ago some guys wrote down that it was a bad thing"? I've only heard bad arguments, but I'm willing to hear those bad arguments again :)
Quote from: "Plu"All throughout;
Where does it say in the Bible that slavery is good? At least one verse please.
Quote from: "Plu"it's riddled with rules on how to treat slaves, who can be kept as slaves, etc.
Rules do not say that view of slavery is positive. Rules also do not say that view of slavery is negative.
Quote from: "Plu"The rules aren't very nice towards the slaves.
who says?
Quote from: "Plu"And at no point in the Bible does it ever mention anything about it being wrong;
Bible:Truth will set you free. All those who follow laws of God receive freedom. Slavery is bad according to God that is why He teaches what to do to become free.
Slavery is curse/punishment/ not a good thing according to God of Israel(Jehovah).
Quote from: "Plu"If you want to know about evolution, take a high school class in evolutionary biology.
Thank you. I already did it.
Quote from: "Plu"If you want to know what's wrong about the bible's story, take that same class, then compare with the Bible. Anything that doesn't match up with what the class taught you is wrong.
How does Moses contradict evolutionary biology? Which verse in the book of Moses says something that denies evolution?
Quote from: "Plu"What's wrong with gay marriage, other than "because 2000 years ago some guys wrote down that it was a bad thing"? I've only heard bad arguments, but I'm willing to hear those bad arguments again :)
Let me tell you, my friend, what is wrong. God gave one law : multiply and replenish the Earth. Gay marriage contradicts this eternal and true law. God will not contradict Himself.
Other then that I don't see anything wrong. :-D
We've got a live one boys!
(//http://www.cavhooah.com/media/easyslide/home-page-image-1.jpg)
Quote from: "Eve"God will not contradict Himself.
Other then that I don't see anything wrong. :-D
of course not.....I bet you go out in public when you are in your "way", hypocrite. Cherry picker.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "stromboli"1) Slavery... The Bible clearly has a positive view of slavery, something pro-slavery Christians routinely pointed out. Abolitionists took a broader, less literal view of the Bible. Unsurprising that this divide led to the South being, to this day, home of the most people who take a literalist, fundamentalist view of Christianity.
Bible has a positive view of slavery?! Where exactly in the Bible does it say?
Quote from: "stromboli"3) Evolution. From the second it became evident that the Biblical story of creation was wrong
What is wrong more particularly, please?
Quote from: "stromboli"4) Pain relief for childbirth. The Bible explicitly lays out pain in childbirth as Eve's punishment for sin, so unsurprisingly, that's what many Christians in the 19th century believed had to be so. Once reliable pain relief in childbirth began to be developed, therefore, there was a lot of resistance to it from Christians who feared it defied God to let women have some relief. The truth is that pain in childbirth is not a punishment from God, but the product of evolution, which is a far from perfect process.
Amen. God didn't say that pain in childbirth is a punishment. God said through His Prophets that death is punishment for sin. Death, not pain in childbirth
Quote from: "stromboli"10) Marriage equality... The majority of Americans now support same-sex marriage. Illinois is becoming the 15th state to authorize it. The momentum is in the direction of justice, and as gay rights proponents said from the beginning, Christian conservatives are, as with most things, on the wrong side of history.
Gay marriage is sin in eyes of God of Israel or Jehovah. I am on God's side.
:-D
Ah now here is what we can expect from a christian, the beliefe of what someone told them.
The fact is that there is no record of jesus other than the bible, and the bible was written exclussively for and by those people that wanted to escape judeo law. As far as the bible denouncing homosexuality, I actually can't remember anything specific in the bible about that. You would have thought it would have been included in the socalled ten commandments but is curiously absent.
As far as in "god's eyes" who are you to speak for your god. How can anyone be sure that you aren't just making up what he/she wants and just saying it's god's will?
Nope we can't rely on that kind of information as truthful or accurate.
If there is a god (and there isn't) how can you, we, or anyone be sure that you are on their side. Just because you say you are doesn't mean a thing. Many murderers claim that they are innocent and yet they are guilty.
The bible approves of slavery:
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT) If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)Evolution is a proven fact the creationist story in the bible is neither fact nor is any part of it proven.
So Eve you have your work cut out for you. You can either PROVE the creationist story or you can relent and accept the truth.
Quote from: "aitm"Quote from: "Eve"God will not contradict Himself.
Other then that I don't see anything wrong. :-D
of course not.....I bet you go out in public when you are in your "way", hypocrite. Cherry picker.
no, I don't
Little riddle most here will probably catch:
How many of each animal did god tell Moses to take on his ark? :-D
(//http://i.imgur.com/4ewDLW9.jpg) :roll: Solitary
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "aitm"Quote from: "Eve"God will not contradict Himself.
Other then that I don't see anything wrong. :-D
Either God does contradict Himself or the Bible is wrong or not His word.
Genesis 1:25-27 (Humans were created after the other animals.)
And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image.
Genesis 1:27 (The first man and woman were created simultaneously.)
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 2:18-19 (Humans were created before the other animals.)
And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
Genesis 2:18-22 (The man was created first, then the animals, then the woman from the man's rib.)
And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them.... And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Solitary :popcorn:
So nobody wants to play along with Moses's ark, eh? Fine! :evil:
Fuck Noah's ark..let's talk about Moses's ark.. :lol:
Quote from: "Solitary"Ah now here is what we can expect from a christian, the beliefe of what someone told them.
true, true. And this, too. :-D
Quote from: "Solitary"The fact is that there is no record of jesus other than the bible,
Not true. Bible is not the only Scripture that testifies of Jesus.
Quote from: "Solitary"and the bible was written exclussively for and by those people that wanted to escape judeo law.
In which book is written that they wanted to escape judeo law? And what law is judeo law?
Quote from: "Solitary"As far as the bible denouncing homosexuality, I actually can't remember anything specific in the bible about that. You would have thought it would have been included in the socalled ten commandments but is curiously absent.
Homosexuality contradicts one of the important laws of God of our world and law of the Universe/Nature: multiply and replenish.
Quote from: "Solitary"As far as in "god's eyes" who are you to speak for your god.
I don't speak for God of Israel. He didn't give me this authority. I only share with You what He reveled by His prophets.
Quote from: "Solitary"How can anyone be sure that you aren't just making up what he/she wants and just saying it's god's will?
How? Anyone can receive a revelation from Him and this is how he or she may know for him/herself.
Quote from: "Solitary"If there is a god (and there isn't) how can you, we, or anyone be sure that you are on their side. Just because you say you are doesn't mean a thing. Many murderers claim that they are innocent and yet they are guilty.
I agree with You. Just because I say You don't have to believe me. God of Israel didn't tell You to do this. But He can tell You what is true and right.
Quote from: "Solitary"The bible approves of slavery:
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
God of Israel didn't say that slavery is a positive/good thing. God only permitted slavery. Slavery is curse/bad thing. And God gave instruction what in His eyes is fair treatment of slaves. God wants all His children eventually to be free. Slavery is evil. But don't we come to this Earth to learn good and evil which are parts of the truth?
"unfair" - "slavery" is evil and we learning what is evil/ unfair. Adam and Eve could become like Gods only if they could learn about good and evil from their own experience. The same with us/their children.
Quote from: "Solitary"Evolution is a proven fact the creationist story in the bible is neither fact nor is any part of it proven.
I don't argue with facts. I accept what is fact as truth. Moses's story doesn't contradict evolution that we observe.
Quote from: "Solitary"So Eve you have your work cut out for you. You can either PROVE the creationist story or you can relent and accept the truth.
What is the truth? That our world appeared by itself? That physical matter created intelligence? Is it a Fact? IS IT proven by someone? Why does physical matter NEED an intelligent beings? Why does it need organized systems? Why does chaos need to be organized? Does Chaos have desires or purposes? if not, then why does it need to create/ORGANIZE something?
Does desert(physical matter) need flowers or fruits? No. But an intelligent being needs them.
Only intelligent beings need organize something for some kind of purpose. Physical matter doesn't. Physical matter/chaos is dead. Dead doesn't have purpose/goals/desires/wants.
Question: what is physical matter and what are its purposes/goals? :-D
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"So nobody wants to play along with Moses's ark, eh? Fine! :evil:
Fuck Noah's ark..let's talk about Moses's ark.. :lol:
Just when I find one you want another one. #-o (//http://i.imgur.com/xhqqz1S.jpg)
Eve provide one document that can be verified other than the bible that jesus existed. You can't because there isn't one. The Romans kept very good records and they have no record of jesus.
Mose's story? Are you for real. You want to argue the facts of evolution that IS proven AND verifiable with a bible story? That is just dumb. We don't even know if moses actually existed. The Egyptians don't mention him at all and he would have lived far before the Romans started keeping records. The jews used word of mouth at the time so it's like playing the game of "whispers" when using early judeo histrionics. DNA proves evolution to be a fact. There isn't a damn thing to prove creation stories from the bible are fact.
There you go again speaking for your god like you actually have the ability and the authority to do so. You can't explain away the bible so you justify the contradictions in the bible with "god's will" or "God says..." nonsense. I put it to you that god didn't say anything to anyone because there is no god. You must prove a god, THEN prove that said god actually said something. You can't just force us to assume that there is a god and that god said something and that YOU know what he/she said.
God wanted fair treatment for slaves?!!!!! Slavery in itself is unfair treatment. What a dumbfuck thing to use as an argument. I mean you're talking to full grown educated people here, not some sunday school class full of ignorant children that have been brainwashed by their brainwashed parents!
God of Israel? So you're god is just god of Israel. I guess the other gods have dominion over their particular geographic location.
Oh and you can keep your intelligent design crap. It's not valid.
Science doesn't answer the question of where everything came from except to the point that science knows. It doesn't make assumptions. The intelligent design makes a huge assumption and idiots like you accept that assumption as fact. It isn't a fact. "Does a desert need fruit....?" Come on. Does it not need fruit?
I know this game that you are playing. It's been trolled out on this forum so many times it isn't even funny. It's the assumption game. We are suppose to accept your assumptions as facts since you don't actually have any facts.
Here is a little note of interest for you.
Did the big bang happen?
Answer yes it did. Why do we know, because we can even hear the blast. It is in recorded history. We can scientifically know a range of time that it happened given the size of the blast the speed of the debrie and the distance of the debrie. We can carbon date things and tell how old they are, and don't give me this bull that carbon dating isn't reliable. Without knowing it you rely on the accuracy of carbon dating every day.
So we know that the big bang happened. Does that prove where we came from? Well not actually only partcially, but science doesn't make any assumption it only accepts that facts that can and have been proved. Our world came from that blast, beyond that they are still researching.
Now you assume that something intelligent must created that blast but that is just an assumption and it isn't based on any facts whatsoever.
And yes random algarythmns prove that patterns can occur from complete accident and randomness.
Physical matter doesn't need intelligent beings. Intelliugent beings NEED physical matter!
LOL..God of Israel.. How about god of Cambodia? God of Antarctica? God of the bottom of a swimming pool? It's either the god of EVERYTHING or the god of nothing and the rest of all other religions can't ALL be wrong and if they are so is the god of Israel.. :roll:
I'm already bored with this one.
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"LOL..God of Israel.. How about god of Cambodia? God of Antarctica? God of the bottom of a swimming pool? It's either the god of EVERYTHING or the god of nothing and the rest of all other religions can't ALL be wrong and if they are so is the god of Israel.. :roll:
"God of Israel" doesn't mean belonging to any country or nationality on Earth. God of Israel means that He made a covenant with Israel(Jacob). He is also God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Belong to house of Israel means belong to his(Jacobs/Israel) FAMILY/HIS SEED.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"Let's try something less confusing for her.
You sound like holding the belief that Scripture has never changed but it is an all divine, cannot be changed pile of text, am I right?
Wrong. I never sounded like that.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"Could you please tell us Eve that what was the justification of slavery in the whole Christian World, if you claim that the scripture never supported it in the first place?
There is no justification. Church of Jesus Christ didn't exist on Earth by the end of the 1st century. All those Christians never belonged to the Church of Jesus Christ. Their justifications were not from God of Israel.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"Majority of the first Christians in the heretic pagan world were slaves themselves.
Christianity has managed to spread world wide and be the official religion of Roman empire JUST because it spread among slaves, soldiers, starving plebs ( also every kind of criminals); every oppressed, exploited, over worked groups of people who practically had no right, practically nothing to live for but their very life in that system have become Christians; to be free of any kind of slavery. So Christianity was supposed to be against slavery, class oppression by foundation. What happened to this god who never contradicts himself and his absolute truth on earth?
Nothing happen to God of Israel. But something happened to Christians already in the 1st century. They broke the covenants.
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"Little riddle most here will probably catch:
How many of each animal did god tell Moses to take on his ark? :-D
7 of every clean animal and 2 of every unclean one wasn't it?
So gay marriage is wrong because god said "be fruitful and multiply"? Have you seen how overpopulated this planet is? How countries like China need a friggin' birth restriction because there's no room?
This is why religion annoys me more than anything. It takes something that was maybe a good idea 2000 years ago....ya know, when there were 8 people on earth.....and spouts it off in 2013 like it makes any kind of sense now.
Yea, keep multiplying, humans. Keep chopping down those forests and killing that ozone. We need that new Walmart soooo bad. And we're doing a hell of a job feeding all those poor people. We definitely have this "multiply" concept down pat.
Just don't let those queers live together with equal rights.
Fucking stupid. Can't stand a group who won't update their goddamn policies in a changing world.
Quote from: "Eve"God of Israel means that He made a covenant with Israel(Jacob). He is also God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
It's jewish god. Let jews pray him, if they want. Let them believe in their fairy tales about Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and other ancient jews.
Quote from: "Eve"Homosexuality contradicts one of the important laws of God of our world and law of the Universe/Nature: multiply and replenish.
I'd forgotten how every heterosexual act of sex ends with a pregnancy. I didn't know it was a law though! When did that happen?
Not to mention that homosexuals are perfectly capable of reproducing, and until fairly recently, that was the norm.
If you want to find the most blatant breakers of this law, see couples where one partner is infertile, yet they stay married.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Plu"The rules aren't very nice towards the slaves.
who says?
The only good rule regarding slaves is "Thou shalt not own another human being." But instead, the Buybull tells people how to buy and treat slaves, thereby implicitly saying that slavery, which is one of the worst evils there is, is acceptable.
If the Buybull were truly a moral book, it would proscribe outright the ownership of human beings.
Quote from: "FrogMan"So gay marriage is wrong because god said "be fruitful and multiply"?
I didn't say that. Gay union contradicts natural law - reproduction of its own kind. PERIOD :-D
Quote from: "FrogMan"Have you seen how overpopulated this planet is? How countries like China need a friggin' birth restriction because there's no room?
1)We don't need gay marriages to save this planet from overpopulation.
2)Don't worry, nothing will happen to this planet because of the overpopulation.
Quote from: "FrogMan"Yea, keep multiplying, humans.
Yea, that is why we(humans) have reproductive organs. Are progressives(communists) the ones who will decide what people of China have to do with their reproductive organs? Oh yes, of course they are. Communists(progressives) are the ones who want to give rights to us(humans). They always did.
Quote from: "FrogMan"Keep chopping down those forests and killing that ozone. We need that new Walmart soooo bad. We definitely have this "multiply" concept down pat.
1)Don't worry it will be enough ozone for everyone.
2)New Walmart sounds good. More new jobs for those who need them.
Quote from: "FrogMan"And we're doing a hell of a job feeding all those poor people
You don't like to feed poor people? Is this true face of progressives(communists)? Of course it is. Communists(progressives) don't care about poor people. They only claim they do when they need their vote.
How about You force those poor people not to reproduce? That is right solution for any communist/progressive. Why do progressives/communists hate us/humans?
Quote from: "FrogMan"Just don't let those queers live together with equal rights.
Equal rights is when everyone has a right to have marriage, for example. Nobody is denied of this right in USA.
But "marriage" and "gay marriage" is not equal. It is not the same. So, what kind equality are you talking about?
Quote from: "Eugeny Anatolievich"Quote from: "Eve"God of Israel means that He made a covenant with Israel(Jacob). He is also God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
It's jewish god. Let jews pray him, if they want. Let them believe in their fairy tales about Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and other ancient jews.
God of Israel never claimed that He is Jewish God. Because it would be a false statement. Jewish people or tribe of Judah are not the only people in house of Israel. All Hebrews, all 12 tribes are house of Israel, not only tribe of Judah(jewish).
Quote from: "Jason78"I'd forgotten how every heterosexual act of sex ends with a pregnancy.
Not every. I don't claim this.
Quote from: "Jason78"I didn't know it was a law though! When did that happen?
There is no law to get pregnant with every act of sex. :-D
QuoteEqual rights is when everyone has a right to have marriage, for example. Nobody is denied of this right in USA.
But "marriage" and "gay marriage" is not equal. It is not the same. So, what kind equality are you talking about?
Marriage is a contract that specifies that two people are legally joined as heads of a family. Marriage in the US and English speaking countries is defined by common law and the basis for inheritance rights. It has nothing to do with who has a penis and who has a vagina. It isn't about sanctifying reproductive rights. It is not based on the bible or any other spiritual entity. As such, gays are as entitled to be legally joined as heterosexual couples. That is why our Supreme Court has not condemned gay marriage and why more and more states are allowing it.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "FrogMan"So gay marriage is wrong because god said "be fruitful and multiply"?
I didn't say that. Gay union contradicts natural law - reproduction of its own kind. PERIOD :-D
Quote from: "FrogMan"Have you seen how overpopulated this planet is? How countries like China need a friggin' birth restriction because there's no room?
1)We don't need gay marriages to save this planet from overpopulation.
2)Don't worry, nothing will happen to this planet because of the overpopulation.
Quote from: "FrogMan"Yea, keep multiplying, humans.
Yea, that is why we(humans) have reproductive organs. Are progressives(communists) the ones who will decide what people of China have to do with their reproductive organs? Oh yes, of course they are. Communists(progressives) are the ones who want to give rights to us(humans). They always did.
Quote from: "FrogMan"Keep chopping down those forests and killing that ozone. We need that new Walmart soooo bad. We definitely have this "multiply" concept down pat.
1)Don't worry it will be enough ozone for everyone.
2)New Walmart sounds good. More new jobs for those who need them.
Quote from: "FrogMan"And we're doing a hell of a job feeding all those poor people
You don't like to feed poor people? Is this true face of progressives(communists)? Of course it is. Communists(progressives) don't care about poor people. They only claim they do when they need their vote.
How about You force those poor people not to reproduce? That is right solution for any communist/progressive. Why do progressives/communists hate us/humans?
Quote from: "FrogMan"Just don't let those queers live together with equal rights.
Equal rights is when everyone has a right to have marriage, for example. Nobody is denied of this right in USA.
But "marriage" and "gay marriage" is not equal. It is not the same. So, what kind equality are you talking about?
Gay marriage doesn't defy natural law. Marriage isn't natural. Marriage is a manmade contract defining distribution of assets and nothing more you fucking idiot. Cats don't get married. Horses don't get married. There is nothing natural about it.
No one is proposing that gay marraige will save the planet. It is simply respecting the individual rights of people and keeping assholes like YOU from ruling over thier individual rights. "Nothing will happen to this planet with overpopulation." You are oput of your mind. This planet can only sustain about 8 to 9 billion people at one time and that is if that population is completely cooperative and does things like reduce pollution. You are fucking dellussional!
Don't worry about the ozone? How fucking stupid! The ozone protects us from radiation dumbass. You reduce the ozone by more than 7%, this planet becomes a burnt out molten rock GEESH!
Walmart, REALLY? Walmart promotes slave labor. Have you ever heard of the working poor? Walmart employs people and pays them so poorly that they become the working poor. Walmart benefits noone, not the cities that they don't pay taxes to, not the employees that they under pay, not the nations that manufacture goods for walmart, because Walmart pays so little for those goods that the factory workers are virtual slaves.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Jason78"I'd forgotten how every heterosexual act of sex ends with a pregnancy.
Not every. I don't claim this.
Quote from: "Jason78"I didn't know it was a law though! When did that happen?
There is no law to get pregnant with every act of sex. :-D
You literally just said:
Quote from: "Eve"Homosexuality contradicts one of the important laws of God of our world and law of the Universe/Nature: multiply and replenish.
Some people just can't have babies no matter how many times they try. Should they just not have sex?
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "FrogMan"So gay marriage is wrong because god said "be fruitful and multiply"?
I didn't say that. Gay union contradicts natural law - reproduction of its own kind. PERIOD :-D
What about straight people who simply don't have kids?
Married or not, gays don't generally produce kids of their own. So allowing gays to marry changes nothing.
Those who oppose gay marriage are bigots.
Quote from: "Mister Agenda"Not to mention that homosexuals are perfectly capable of reproducing, and until fairly recently, that was the norm.
If you want to find the most blatant breakers of this law, see couples where one partner is infertile, yet they stay married.
Blatant breakers of the law are those who CHOOSE to disobey the law. Those who can't are not breakers.
For example, there is a law of the land - OBAMACARE. If I don't obey this law because I CHOOSE to I will be blatant breaker. But if I cannot afford "affordable" Big Brother Obama should not make me/force me to buy it. God is fair. He doesn't ask me to do what I am not capable to do. Big Brother and Comrad Obama will fine me.
Quote from: "Eve"Equal rights is when everyone has a right to have marriage, for example. Nobody is denied of this right in USA.
This is false. Gays are denied this right in much of the USA.
Eve, why don't you admit you aren't in Russia and are a bigoted Tea Bagger? :roll: :popcorn: Solitary
Quote from: "stromboli"QuoteEqual rights is when everyone has a right to have marriage, for example. Nobody is denied of this right in USA.
But "marriage" and "gay marriage" is not equal. It is not the same. So, what kind equality are you talking about?
Marriage is a contract that specifies that two people are legally joined as heads of a family.
Marriage in the US and English speaking countries is defined by common law and the basis for inheritance rights. It has nothing to do with who has a penis and who has a vagina. It isn't about sanctifying reproductive rights. It is not based on the bible or any other spiritual entity. As such, gays are as entitled to be legally joined as heterosexual couples.
OK. And what is GAY marriage? Why do You add another word to word "marriage"? Isn't it for the purpose of making a some kind of DIFFERENCE?
Quote from: "stromboli"That is why our Supreme Court has not condemned gay marriage and why more and more states are allowing it.
I don't care about what Supreme Court did. Democracy is when people VOTE. And majority wins.
Quote from: "Solitary"Eve, why don't you admit you aren't in Russia and are a bigoted Tea Bagger? :roll: :popcorn: Solitary
I never said that I am in Russia. I was born in Kiev, Ukraine I grew up there and now I am proud to be an American citizen. I love this country and Constitution. I hate BIG CORRUPTED government. I don't support progressives because I had enough of them and their ideology when I lived in Ukraine/ former Soviet Union.
That is why now I am a constitutional conservative aka Tea Bagger. :-D
Quote from: "Eve"Blatant breakers of the law are those who CHOOSE to disobey the law. Those who can't are not breakers.
For example, there is a law of the land - OBAMACARE. If I don't obey this law because I CHOOSE to I will be blatant breaker. But if I cannot afford "affordable" Big Brother Obama should not make me/force me to buy it. God is fair. He doesn't ask me to do what I am not capable to do. Big Brother and Comrad Obama will fine me.
Look at you go! Conflating nature with judicial law!
It's almost cute.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"Quote from: "Eve"Church of Jesus Christ didn't exist on Earth by the end of the 1st century. All those Christians never belonged to the Church of Jesus Christ. Their justifications were not from God of Israel. Nothing happen to God of Israel. But something happened to Christians already in the 1st century. They broke the covenants.
This god created everything; the whole universe, the planet earth for human to live on and multiply, his only son was tortured, killed for the sins of every human in existence, but his ultimate truth collapsed as soon as it spread on earth, because 'something happened' to these Christians?
1)First, God of this world never said that He created everything, the whole universe. I don't where You got it from.
2)He can not FORCE people to obey His laws/covenants.
3)Ultimate truth doesn't collapse when someone breaks the law.
Quote from: "Eve"OK. And what is GAY marriage? Why do You add another word to word "marriage"? Isn't it for the purpose of making a some kind of DIFFERENCE?
Because gays can't get married. The difference will come when a homosexual persons partner will enjoy all the rights and benefits of a heterosexual partner.
So unless you can think of a really good reason as to why my potential husband shouldn't enjoy the same rights as my potential wife, what exactly is your argument?
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Solitary"Eve, why don't you admit you aren't in Russia and are a bigoted Tea Bagger? :roll: :popcorn: Solitary
I never said that I am in Russia. I was born in Kiev, Ukraine I grew up there and now I am proud to be an American citizen. I love this country and Constitution. I hate BIG CORRUPTED government. I don't support progressives because I had enough of them and their ideology when I lived in Ukraine/ former Soviet Union.
That is why now I am a constitutional conservative aka Tea Bagger. :-D
And now the truth comes out. And you think we weren't smart enough to figure that out? If you don't like big government why did you move here. I thought Russia was under communism? If it isn't then it is just like what we have here. You should move to France where they have a real Democracy. :lol: Solitary
Quote from: "Atheon"Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "FrogMan"So gay marriage is wrong because god said "be fruitful and multiply"?
I didn't say that. Gay union contradicts natural law - reproduction of its own kind. PERIOD :-D
What about straight people who simply don't have kids?
Married or not, gays don't generally produce kids of their own. So allowing gays to marry changes nothing.
Those who oppose gay marriage are bigots.
And also the other much worse extreme... people who have kids and shouldn't. Including but not limited to, raising children when they shouldn't and having them grow up to become mentally scarred from their horrible upbringing, moms that have babies and throw them in the dumpster.
I would much rather a kid be raised by a happy same sex couple than being raised by shit parents. Plus I know of zero same sex couples that are unhappy together. I don't even think gays contradict natural law anymore, now that I think about it... even from an evolution standpoint. If the point of evolution is for a species to survive, maybe people who are gay is an evolution progression to keep population down, to avoid over-population. We seriously have too many people on this planet as it is.
Quote from: "Jason78"Quote from: "Eve"Blatant breakers of the law are those who CHOOSE to disobey the law. Those who can't are not breakers.
For example, there is a law of the land - OBAMACARE. If I don't obey this law because I CHOOSE to I will be blatant breaker. But if I cannot afford "affordable" Big Brother Obama should not make me/force me to buy it. God is fair. He doesn't ask me to do what I am not capable to do. Big Brother and Comrad Obama will fine me.
Look at you go! Conflating nature with judicial law!
It's almost cute.
It doesn't matter. Natural law or judicial law - concept is the same: if I have no capacity to obey the law I am not blatant breaker of the law. :)
Quote from: "Atheon"Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Plu"The rules aren't very nice towards the slaves.
who says?
The only good rule regarding slaves is "Thou shalt not own another human being." But instead, the Buybull tells people how to buy and treat slaves, thereby implicitly saying that slavery, which is one of the worst evils there is, is acceptable.
If the Buybull were truly a moral book, it would proscribe outright the ownership of human beings.
I didn't ask what You think what is nice or what is not nice. I don't need You to figure out this. I asked "who says that rules are not very nice?"
What! Natural laws can't be broken, civil laws can. :roll: Solitary
Quote from: "mykcob4"Gay marriage doesn't defy natural law. Marriage isn't natural.
Did I say that marriage defy natural law? when? Where?
Quote from: "mykcob4"Marriage is a manmade contract defining distribution of assets and nothing more you fucking idiot.
Can You be more civil AT LEAST? Did I ever told You that marriage is something more? But NOW I will tell You that it is more than that. Marriage is also a contract when both sides before witnesses PROMISE to be together in good times and bad times. They promise to love each other and take care of each other.
Quote from: "mykcob4"Cats don't get married. Horses don't get married. There is nothing natural about it.
Again, I never said that marriage is a natural law. It is judicial law. God's laws for people are judicial laws.
Quote from: "mykcob4"No one is proposing that gay marraige will save the planet. It is simply respecting the individual rights of people and keeping assholes like YOU from ruling over thier individual rights.
Can You be AT LEAST more civil? Gosh.
Gay marriage is not the same as marriage. That is why You continue to say "GAY marriage". You all the time ADD another/extra word. To show some kind of DIFFERENCE. If You want to have something besides marriage - GAY marriage for example - vote for it. And let other people to do the same. Majority wins. This calls democracy. Progressives/communists don't like democracy? Of course they don't. Progressive/communists want to do what they think is right even though they always a MINORITY.
P.S. We can have marriages and something different - gay marriages. But let MAJORITY decide what they want, NOT YOU.
Quote from: "mykcob4""Nothing will happen to this planet with overpopulation." You are oput of your mind. This planet can only sustain about 8 to 9 billion people at one time and that is if that population is completely cooperative and does things like reduce pollution. You are fucking dellussional!
what will happen to earth when we reach that number?
Quote from: "mykcob4"Don't worry about the ozone? How fucking stupid! The ozone protects us from radiation dumbass. You reduce the ozone by more than 7%, this planet becomes a burnt out molten rock GEESH!
Did I tell You that I don't know what ozone is? And how about NOT TO BELIEVE a false science? or You are one of those false prophets? I mean false scientist? :-D
Quote from: "mykcob4"Walmart, REALLY? Walmart promotes slave labor.
Wait when BIG BROTHER will become even bigger. Then You will know what real slavery is.
You MARKSIST!!!
And what will You do without Walmarts? Produce Your own food? Produce Your own pants and shirts? Or You want to pay high prices?
Quote from: "mykcob4"Have you ever heard of the working poor?
Yes. I was one of them when progressives/communists like You were ruling in Soviet Union.
You want YUTOPIA? Well, I will dissapoint You. it is not REAL what You communist/progressive wish. Your "fair" society is MYTH, it is something that never existed, don't exist and will never exist.
If you take away Walmart and companies like Walmart your poor will become even more poor and You will have to produce EVERYTHING for Yourself by yourself. Is this what You wish FOOL? Go to North Korea. You can have plenty of that.
Quote from: "mykcob4"Walmart employs people and pays them so poorly that they become the working poor.
They were already poor only without work. Walmart didn't make them poor. May be they were poor because THEY CHOSE not to graduate high school and not to go to college to become more rich? May be they were poor because they CHOSE to be drug addicts and couldn't become more productive? May be they were poor because they CHOSE not to learn English and get a better job? May be they were poor because they were not capable to do better?
Quote from: "mykcob4"Walmart benefits noone,
not the cities that they don't pay taxes to,not the employees that they under pay, not the nations that manufacture goods for walmart, because Walmart pays so little for those goods that the factory workers are virtual slaves.
It benefits me when I need food or plastic wrap, or TV. I can not do it myself. I NEED Walmart FOR THAT. :-D
Quote from: "Solitary"What! Natural laws can't be broken, civil laws can. :roll: Solitary
OK, when a person is not capable to reproduce he/she doesn't break anything.
When a person is capable to reproduce he/she breaks natural law. If a cat decides not to reproduce it will break natural law.
:-D
QuoteYou MARKSIST!!!
I think you mean Marxist... after Karl marx, the father of communism.
Btw, I can tell that you have no clue how walmart does business. Please do some research before calling someone a communist.
Quote from: "Solitary"And now the truth comes out.
Truth will always come out, my friend. I actually didn't hide the truth from You.
Quote from: "Solitary"And you think we weren't smart enough to figure that out?
You are smart. I don't mind You figure it out. And I didn't try to hide this from anybody.
Quote from: "Solitary"If you don't like big government why did you move here.
I didn't believe that USA will ever be taken by communists/progressives. I thought ALL americans hated big government and marksist ideology. I thought ALL americans LOVE their Constitution. I learned that it is false. By the way, friend, why do You like big government? why are you so foolish? or helpless?
Quote from: "Solitary"I thought Russia was under communism? If it isn't then it is just like what we have here. You should move to France where they have a real Democracy. :lol: Solitary
It was. Now it is here. We are getting more close to what Soviet People were SMART enough to GET RID OFF.
Quote from: "Eve"Can You be AT LEAST more civil? Gosh.
Asking mykob4 to be civil around theists is like asking a cat to stop scratching furniture. Honestly, the only reason I don't post in that style myself is because I think it's funny when you theists take my civility to mean that I'm taking you seriously.
Quote from: "PickelledEggs"QuoteYou MARKSIST!!!
I think you mean Marxist... after Karl marx, the father of communism.
Btw, I can tell that you have no clue how walmart does business. Please do some research before calling someone a communist.
May be I don't know how Walmart does business but I know that I NEED Walmart. I wish for something like Walmart when I lived in USSR and when Big Brother took care of me.
Are You progressive? if yes, you are communist. There is one little difference between communists and progressives. Communists take responsibilty for evil they do. Progressives blame insurance company or Walmart. PERIOD. :-D
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Quote from: "Eve"Can You be AT LEAST more civil? Gosh.
Asking mykob4 to be civil around theists is like asking a cat to stop scratching furniture.
I have faith in him. I believe he has potential to improve his civility. :-D
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Honestly, the only reason I don't post in that style myself is because I think it's funny when you theists take my civility to mean that I'm taking you seriously.
I take Your civility because I think You like to be civil. Because I believe that it is natural for You. Am I wrong? Please, tell me that I am wrong. :)
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "PickelledEggs"QuoteYou MARKSIST!!!
I think you mean Marxist... after Karl marx, the father of communism.
Btw, I can tell that you have no clue how walmart does business. Please do some research before calling someone a communist.
May be I don't know how Walmart does business but I know that I NEED Walmart. I wish for something like Walmart when I lived in USSR and when Big Brother took care of me.
Are You progressive? if yes, you are communist. There is one little difference between communists and progressives. Communists take responsibilty for evil they do. Progressives blame insurance company or Walmart. PERIOD. :-D
I don't think you know how government works either, just because someone is progressive doesn't mean they are communist.
The short answer to how walmart works is it destroys the economy in the surrounding area. It kills small businesses and eliminates income for people through monoplizing retail. It is capitalism, but, it's a shitty version of it. If you think you "NEED" walmart, btw, you have a bigger problem on your hands than worrying about annoying a forum with uneducated rants about government and groceries. Don't you have a place other than walmart to get food and things to survive on? I have about 4 or 5 food stores in a 3 mile radius from my house. There is even more clothes and other stores around. If you know anything about how to make capitalism work you would know that giving walmart all your business is bad.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "stromboli"QuoteEqual rights is when everyone has a right to have marriage, for example. Nobody is denied of this right in USA.
But "marriage" and "gay marriage" is not equal. It is not the same. So, what kind equality are you talking about?
Marriage is a contract that specifies that two people are legally joined as heads of a family.
Marriage in the US and English speaking countries is defined by common law and the basis for inheritance rights. It has nothing to do with who has a penis and who has a vagina. It isn't about sanctifying reproductive rights. It is not based on the bible or any other spiritual entity. As such, gays are as entitled to be legally joined as heterosexual couples.
OK. And what is GAY marriage? Why do You add another word to word "marriage"? Isn't it for the purpose of making a some kind of DIFFERENCE?
Quote from: "stromboli"That is why our Supreme Court has not condemned gay marriage and why more and more states are allowing it.
I don't care about what Supreme Court did. Democracy is when people VOTE. And majority wins.
Democracy is not when the majority wins in this nation. The USA is a representative democracy and a nation of laws not men. That means that we elect representatives and the majority doesn't rule. That also means that individual civil rights are supreme and trump majority(mob) rule. When you say you don't care about the Supreme Court, you are saying that you don't care about civil rights, individual rights, or the rule of law.
Oh and by the way, Progressives are far different than communist. Progressives work for the freedom of oppertunity of an individual. Communist destroys individualism. So don't preach to me about politics because you are sorely wrong.
What has your god-or any god- actually done? You can't prove god exists because there is no evidence. Every disease cured was cured by science, every dam built by engineers, every accomplishment and achievement by human effort. We celebrate what is obvious human achievement. You glorify an assumption.
Being civil? By coming on here, you effectively challenge our beliefs and are essentially calling us wrong or liars. This is our house, not yours. We'll be as civil as our judgment dictates. We didn't go to your house and start denouncing you, did we?
Your morality is based on a belief system. Other belief systems have different moralities. Ours is based on a commonality of understanding and about equal rights for people not based on assumed beliefs written down by Bronze Age sheep herders.
Progressives? Religion is the opposite of progress. Religion didn't expand the rights of man but suppressed it. Science and intellect aside from religion has moved mankind forward, enlightened us and made us more aware of ourselves and our world.
Your political kindred have denied global warming, the rights of women, civil liberties and all that is the progress of human understanding. Religion takes us backward to a more oppressive time, progress and progressives want to move mankind forward and rid us of the backward behavior religion demands.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mykcob4"Gay marriage doesn't defy natural law. Marriage isn't natural.
Did I say that marriage defy natural law? when? Where?
Quote from: "mykcob4"Marriage is a manmade contract defining distribution of assets and nothing more you fucking idiot.
Can You be more civil AT LEAST? Did I ever told You that marriage is something more? But NOW I will tell You that it is more than that. Marriage is also a contract when both sides before witnesses PROMISE to be together in good times and bad times. They promise to love each other and take care of each other.
Quote from: "mykcob4"Cats don't get married. Horses don't get married. There is nothing natural about it.
Again, I never said that marriage is a natural law. It is judicial law. God's laws for people are judicial laws.
Quote from: "mykcob4"No one is proposing that gay marraige will save the planet. It is simply respecting the individual rights of people and keeping assholes like YOU from ruling over thier individual rights.
Can You be AT LEAST more civil? Gosh.
Gay marriage is not the same as marriage. That is why You continue to say "GAY marriage". You all the time ADD another/extra word. To show some kind of DIFFERENCE. If You want to have something besides marriage - GAY marriage for example - vote for it. And let other people to do the same. Majority wins. This calls democracy. Progressives/communists don't like democracy? Of course they don't. Progressive/communists want to do what they think is right even though they always a MINORITY.
P.S. We can have marriages and something different - gay marriages. But let MAJORITY decide what they want, NOT YOU.
Quote from: "mykcob4""Nothing will happen to this planet with overpopulation." You are oput of your mind. This planet can only sustain about 8 to 9 billion people at one time and that is if that population is completely cooperative and does things like reduce pollution. You are fucking dellussional!
what will happen to earth when we reach that number?
Quote from: "mykcob4"Don't worry about the ozone? How fucking stupid! The ozone protects us from radiation dumbass. You reduce the ozone by more than 7%, this planet becomes a burnt out molten rock GEESH!
Did I tell You that I don't know what ozone is? And how about NOT TO BELIEVE a false science? or You are one of those false prophets? I mean false scientist? :-D
Quote from: "mykcob4"Walmart, REALLY? Walmart promotes slave labor.
Wait when BIG BROTHER will become even bigger. Then You will know what real slavery is.
You MARKSIST!!!
And what will You do without Walmarts? Produce Your own food? Produce Your own pants and shirts? Or You want to pay high prices?
Quote from: "mykcob4"Have you ever heard of the working poor?
Yes. I was one of them when progressives/communists like You were ruling in Soviet Union.
You want YUTOPIA? Well, I will dissapoint You. it is not REAL what You communist/progressive wish. Your "fair" society is MYTH, it is something that never existed, don't exist and will never exist.
If you take away Walmart and companies like Walmart your poor will become even more poor and You will have to produce EVERYTHING for Yourself by yourself. Is this what You wish FOOL? Go to North Korea. You can have plenty of that.
Quote from: "mykcob4"Walmart employs people and pays them so poorly that they become the working poor.
They were already poor only without work. Walmart didn't make them poor. May be they were poor because THEY CHOSE not to graduate high school and not to go to college to become more rich? May be they were poor because they CHOSE to be drug addicts and couldn't become more productive? May be they were poor because they CHOSE not to learn English and get a better job? May be they were poor because they were not capable to do better?
Quote from: "mykcob4"Walmart benefits noone,
not the cities that they don't pay taxes to,not the employees that they under pay, not the nations that manufacture goods for walmart, because Walmart pays so little for those goods that the factory workers are virtual slaves.
It benefits me when I need food or plastic wrap, or TV. I can not do it myself. I NEED Walmart FOR THAT. :-D
Oh fuck you god's law ISN'T JUDICIAL LAW you utter moron. I won't be civil with a person that chooses to be an idiot and chooses an ideology that by its very nature is uncivil. Tea party really? That is what you think democracy is? You are sorely mistaken. First of all this nation was founded by Liberals and Proggressives. And it was founded on the principle of individual rights not any religious ideology. It was founded inspite of religious idolotry against conservatism and against divine providence you fucking fool.
I'm not a communist, nor a marxist. You have no idea what democracy is and you lack the understanding of what individual freedom is. Individual freedom is the basis of this nation of the type of government we have in this nation. It isn't majority rule, or mob rule or religiouds rule. Have you ever heard of seperation of church and state. That is a vital part of this nation. Heres a history lesson for you an American one:
The king of England was divine...chosen by god. He was the only person with individual rights. The colonies wanted self rule and self destiny. They revolted against the king's rule and rejected divinity. They established for the first time in human history that all people are equal that no king no god no person has dominion. You have no right to deny gays the right to marry. You have no right to deny anyone from marrying anyone they wish to. You are infringing on that persons individual rights and justifying it by saying that your god has a law against it. Well your god's law has NO authority. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land and the Constitution's purpose is to protect individual freedom.
BTW I don't shop at Walmart or Sam's and never will. I pay fair prices for quality goods.
How do you know the history of every single individual that works for Walmart or works to make the goods sold at Walmart? You don't. You think people choose to be poor. You think that denying them oppertunity is what they choose in life? You're a complete moron.
Gay marraige is exactly the same as any other marraige. It is a contract between two individuals nothing more.
False science, false prophet?!!!! You're a fucking retard! I bet you don't believe in global warming even though it is a FACT! You still believe the world is flat and the planets revolve around the Earth, that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old, and all the other hocus pocus crap that tea bagger morons believe.
I would love to meet you face to face to tell you how fucking stupid you really are. On second thought I don't want any sign of you, in person, on this forum, in MY country, on MY Earth, in MY solar system or this universe. Get fucked and go the fuck away.
Most of you have stepped in and crushed this terrible argument, but hey, I was called out, so here we go for old time's sake. Probably done after this one.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "FrogMan"So gay marriage is wrong because god said "be fruitful and multiply"?
I didn't say that. Gay union contradicts natural law - reproduction of its own kind. PERIOD :-D
Homosexuality occurs naturally in species other than human beings. Something being an anomaly statistically does not mean it is "unnatural" or contradicting some "natural law." Plus, you're implying that everyone needs to reproduce. As of right now, I don't want kids. How am I different from a gay person getting married who doesn't? Also, gay parents can also adopt. And unwanted pregnancies and parentless children ARE real problems.
Again, this "natural law" makes more sense when there's eight people on the planet. Please join us in 2013, things are much more complex.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "FrogMan"Have you seen how overpopulated this planet is? How countries like China need a friggin' birth restriction because there's no room?
1)We don't need gay marriages to save this planet from overpopulation.
2)Don't worry, nothing will happen to this planet because of the overpopulation.
Quote from: "FrogMan"Yea, keep multiplying, humans.
Yea, that is why we(humans) have reproductive organs. Are progressives(communists) the ones who will decide what people of China have to do with their reproductive organs? Oh yes, of course they are. Communists(progressives) are the ones who want to give rights to us(humans). They always did.
1) My point was not that gay marriages will save the world. Please stay on point. This is about rights.
2) You're wrong. If the world population keeps expanding at this pace, we're fucked. But you're technically right...the planet will survive. It will limp into the future without us, but....are we talking about making life better for humans? I thought we were....OK.
As for your last point, not sure I understand what you're talking about with commies and progressives. Is that what I am, I guess? Anyway, yes I know what penises and vaginas are for. This is horribly off topic.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "FrogMan"Keep chopping down those forests and killing that ozone. We need that new Walmart soooo bad. We definitely have this "multiply" concept down pat.
1)Don't worry it will be enough ozone for everyone.
2)New Walmart sounds good. More new jobs for those who need them.
1) Another terrible argument. Is this because Jesus will fix everything? Honestly, you know nothing about the effects of pollution on our planet. We are doing damage, and if we continue to do so at this rate, we are in trouble. Please Google once in a while about this subject. I will not hold someone's hand through explaining why "Don't worry, there will be enough ozone for everyone" is not a sensible argument with the rate of population growth.
2) You're missing the point of tongue-in-cheek comments.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "FrogMan"And we're doing a hell of a job feeding all those poor people
You don't like to feed poor people? Is this true face of progressives(communists)? Of course it is. Communists(progressives) don't care about poor people. They only claim they do when they need their vote.
How about You force those poor people not to reproduce? That is right solution for any communist/progressive. Why do progressives/communists hate us/humans?
What is this progressive/communist link? And is this what I am? All you know about me is that I think being against gay people's right to marry is wrong and that we should take care of the Earth. That's it. Not a thing more. If this makes me a commie or a progressive in your eyes, know that you're going on that information and that information alone.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "FrogMan"Just don't let those queers live together with equal rights.
Equal rights is when everyone has a right to have marriage, for example. Nobody is denied of this right in USA.
But "marriage" and "gay marriage" is not equal. It is not the same. So, what kind equality are you talking about?
This is a theist's semantic game, and I'm not going to play it. Ugh...so dishonest and intentionally headache-inducing. You KNOW damn well that the only reason people say "gay marriage" instead of just "marriage" is because theists are fighting it. It was called "WOMEN'S" suffrage and not just "suffrage" because women were the ones being denied their rights. Same here. If gay people were allowed to marry (see, I called it "marry," not "gay marry") it WOULD be equal to "regular" marriage.
Come on, you know this. I don't know why I came back here to debate with you. Enjoy the rest of your short stay here at this site. There's more than enough wolves here to feast on the bones of your weak arguments. Good luck.
Quote from: "Eve"I take Your civility because I think You like to be civil. Because I believe that it is natural for You. Am I wrong? Please, tell me that I am wrong. :)
Yes, you are wrong. I treat people with the civility I think they deserve, unless I'm intentionally being civil for the purpose of my own amusement. Usually, people deserve at least neutral respect. You, however, have proven yourself to be a complete and utter dunce when it comes to the most basic principles of science, regardless of any training you claim to have. You also have a complete disregard for understanding atheists, preferring to thrust your own morality upon us in conversation. You did not come to this forum to discuss anything. You came here to proselytize your religion, just like all the others. I warned you in my first post on your introduction: Besides you, there is only one theist here who has not left or been banned, and he's called mediumaevum. You see, mediumaevum actually came here to talk rather than proselytize, and despite our disagreements I've found him to be a rather nice fellow to talk to. Interestingly, he is a deist. "Interestingly," because his is the only theistic viewpoint that doesn't seem hell-bent on pushing itself on other people. You are nothing like him, though, and you will probably be gone by the end of the week at the rate you're going.
So to you I say: Fuck you and the horse you rode in on, you poor, deluded fool.
Quote from: "mykcob4"Democracy is not when the majority wins in this nation. The USA is a representative democracy and a nation of laws not men. That means that we elect representatives and the majority doesn't rule. That also means that individual civil rights are supreme and trump majority(mob) rule. When you say you don't care about the Supreme Court, you are saying that you don't care about civil rights, individual rights, or the rule of law.
I care about all those things. I don't believe in mob rule. But I believe that people should vote on gay marriage. Mob rule is when progressives make me buy what I don't want to buy. This is MOB RULE!!
Quote from: "mykcob4"Oh and by the way, Progressives are far different than communist. Progressives work for the freedom of oppertunity of an individual. Communist destroys individualism. So don't preach to me about politics because you are sorely wrong.
communists say: Progressives destroy individualism but communism gives freedom and best opportunity. I am not buying your preaching about how wonderful progressives work is.
Obama's website is evidence of how progressives do their work. By the way communists are not better. Everything in their hands gets ruined.
Quote from: "Eve"communists say: Progressives destroy individualism but communism gives freedom and best opportunity. I am not buying your preaching about how wonderful progressives work is.
Obama's website is evidence of how progressives do their work. By the way communists are not better. Everything in their hands gets ruined.
Holy babble, do you mods see this? Obama and commies and progressives, oh my!
I feel dirty for taking part in this slaughtering. Obvious troll is obvious.
Ban hammer coming in 3......2......1......
Jesus fuckin Christ, Eve, let me explain this whole "gay marriage" thing to you:
1. It is called gay marriage not because it is different from straight marriage, but because "gay" is a qualifying word describing the nature of the marriage. In time, once gays have fully equal rights, it will increasingly be called just "marriage". There use to be a time that the phrase "interacial marriage" was used because interacial couples didn't have the same rights as couples of the same race. Now that term is only really used when describing segragation. Some bigots still use it as well, but all normal people call a modern interacial marraige just a marriage.
2. Marriage, in terms of US law and in terms of what equality advocates are fighting for, is a CIVIL contract between two parties. Religious marriage is another matter entirely, and no one is fighting for the right to be married in your bigoted churches. There are still some small churches in the south that will refuse to marry mixed race couples - it is their right to do so because the nature of the marriage is religious. A county clerk, however, cannot refuse to marry a mixed race couple because that is a CIVIL marriage. We are not fighting for the right to be married in your bigoted churches - there are several churchs that will readily marry same sex couples, we are simply fighting for the right to have a civil marriage.
3. It is none of your goddamn business whether or not 2 people enter into a civil contract - seperation of church and state and all that. Your religion does not get to trump my rights just because you find it oh so special. I don't care what they may teach in your church, they can say I'm an abomination that deserves death, but that doesn't mean they get to dictact my life.
4. You want small government? Fine - get the government out of my ability to enter into a contract. I'm a sober adult with no mental issues that would exempt me from entering into any other contract, get them out of my ability to enter into a marriage contract. Until then you have no business claiming you want a small government - you just want to government out of your business and into mine.
5. Sorry, but you don't get to vote on other people's civil rights. There's this little thing called "tyranny of the majority" that our founding fathers didn't want, which is why we have a constition instead of a piece of paper that says "MOB MENTALITY RULES LOLZ!!!!!1!!!11!!!!one" as our founding document. At a time the majority didn't want women or blacks to vote. The majority at one time didn't want mixed race couples to be able to marry. The day you get to vote on my civil rights is the day I get to vote on what they teach in your church.
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Quote from: "Eve"I take Your civility because I think You like to be civil. Because I believe that it is natural for You. Am I wrong? Please, tell me that I am wrong. :)
Yes, you are wrong. I treat people with the civility I think they deserve, unless I'm intentionally being civil for the purpose of my own amusement.
Typical communist thinking. I am not surprised. Communist/progressive decides ho deserves what and uses while claiming he is for freedom an opportunities for others.
You decided what I deserve ad forced on me your uncivility. It is pure evil. :twisted:
Quote from: "mykcob4"Usually, people deserve at least neutral respect.
'
Oh, Great Master, you are so kind.
Quote from: "mykcob4"You, however, have proven yourself to be a complete and utter dunce when it comes to the most basic principles of science, regardless of any training you claim to have. You also have a complete disregard for understanding atheists, preferring to thrust your own morality upon us in conversation. You did not come to this forum to discuss anything. You came here to proselytize your religion, just like all the others.
really? and what is my religion?
Quote from: "mykcob4"I warned you in my first post on your introduction: Besides you, there is only one theist here who has not left or been banned, and he's called mediumaevum. You see, mediumaevum actually came here to talk rather than proselytize, and despite our disagreements I've found him to be a rather nice fellow to talk to. Interestingly, he is a deist. "Interestingly," because his is the only theistic viewpoint that doesn't seem hell-bent on pushing itself on other people. You are nothing like him, though, and you will probably be gone by the end of the week at the rate you're going.[/.quote]
I agreed to be polite on this forum to others. I keep my word. You don't.
Quote from: "mykcob4"So to you I say: Fuck you and the horse you rode in on, you poor, deluded fool.
Read the rules, my friend. Keep your agreement. civil person is always civil person. You are not civil person.
RELAX, my friend. :-D
Stop feeding the trolls gentlemen :)
Quote from: "Plu"Stop feeding the trolls gentlemen :)
But I need a chew toy!
Quote from: "Plu"Stop feeding the trolls gentlemen :)
I think my troll radar needs calibrating... :lol:
Quote from: "The Skeletal Atheist"Jesus fuckin Christ, Eve, let me explain this whole "gay marriage" thing to you:
1. It is called gay marriage not because it is different from straight marriage, but because "gay" is a qualifying word describing the nature of the marriage. In time, once gays have fully equal rights, it will increasingly be called just "marriage". There use to be a time that the phrase "interacial marriage" was used because interacial couples didn't have the same rights as couples of the same race. Now that term is only really used when describing segragation. Some bigots still use it as well, but all normal people call a modern interacial marraige just a marriage.
2. Marriage, in terms of US law and in terms of what equality advocates are fighting for, is a CIVIL contract between two parties. Religious marriage is another matter entirely, and no one is fighting for the right to be married in your bigoted churches. There are still some small churches in the south that will refuse to marry mixed race couples - it is their right to do so because the nature of the marriage is religious. A county clerk, however, cannot refuse to marry a mixed race couple because that is a CIVIL marriage. We are not fighting for the right to be married in your bigoted churches - there are several churchs that will readily marry same sex couples, we are simply fighting for the right to have a civil marriage.
3. It is none of your goddamn business whether or not 2 people enter into a civil contract - seperation of church and state and all that. Your religion does not get to trump my rights just because you find it oh so special. I don't care what they may teach in your church, they can say I'm an abomination that deserves death, but that doesn't mean they get to dictact my life.
4. You want small government? Fine - get the government out of my ability to enter into a contract. I'm a sober adult with no mental issues that would exempt me from entering into any other contract, get them out of my ability to enter into a marriage contract. Until then you have no business claiming you want a small government - you just want to government out of your business and into mine.
5. Sorry, but you don't get to vote on other people's civil rights. There's this little thing called "tyranny of the majority" that our founding fathers didn't want, which is why we have a constition instead of a piece of paper that says "MOB MENTALITY RULES LOLZ!!!!!1!!!11!!!!one" as our founding document. At a time the majority didn't want women or blacks to vote. The majority at one time didn't want mixed race couples to be able to marry. The day you get to vote on my civil rights is the day I get to vote on what they teach in your church.
Reposting so I may get a response.
Quote from: "FrogMan"Quote from: "Eve"communists say: Progressives destroy individualism but communism gives freedom and best opportunity. I am not buying your preaching about how wonderful progressives work is.
Obama's website is evidence of how progressives do their work. By the way communists are not better. Everything in their hands gets ruined.
Holy babble, do you mods see this? Obama and commies and progressives, oh my!
I feel dirty for taking part in this slaughtering. Obvious troll is obvious.
Ban hammer coming in 3......2......1......
Hey welcome back ! Glad to see you around !
Quote from: "The Skeletal Atheist"Quote from: "Plu"Stop feeding the trolls gentlemen :)
But I need a chew toy!
Yes funny trolls pets are fun ! :popcorn: :popcorn:
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mykcob4"Democracy is not when the majority wins in this nation. The USA is a representative democracy and a nation of laws not men. That means that we elect representatives and the majority doesn't rule. That also means that individual civil rights are supreme and trump majority(mob) rule. When you say you don't care about the Supreme Court, you are saying that you don't care about civil rights, individual rights, or the rule of law.
I care about all those things. I don't believe in mob rule. But I believe that people should vote on gay marriage. Mob rule is when progressives make me buy what I don't want to buy. This is MOB RULE!!
Quote from: "mykcob4"Oh and by the way, Progressives are far different than communist. Progressives work for the freedom of oppertunity of an individual. Communist destroys individualism. So don't preach to me about politics because you are sorely wrong.
communists say: Progressives destroy individualism but communism gives freedom and best opportunity. I am not buying your preaching about how wonderful progressives work is.
Obama's website is evidence of how progressives do their work. By the way communists are not better. Everything in their hands gets ruined.
Nope that is just the propaganda that you've bought into.
Progressives don't make you buy a damned thing. Mob rule is when a bunch of religious zealots infringe on peoples individual freedom and forcing their religious mythology on people.
It's not Obama's website moron. It would have been up and running well if Ted tea party fascist Cruz didn't committ treason and try to bring down the government. If you don't progressives you must hate America, because this nation was founded by, for , and because of proggressives.
Proggressives got the world out of a depression, saved us from another one that Bush started, won world wars I and II, killed Osama Bin Laden, freed Russia from communism, won the war in Kosavo, ended slavery, gave women the vote, gave minorities the vote, and that is the short list of a huge list.
And I'm not for the least buying your fake European act. I bet that you are an American born evangelical probably from Texas, Oklahoma, or one of the fucked up red states. So you can quit with the strategic broken english crap.
Quote from: "Eve"It doesn't matter. Natural law or judicial law - concept is the same: if I have no capacity to obey the law I am not blatant breaker of the law. :)
The two concepts are totally different.
That's why we have different words for them.
Quote from: "Eve"OK, when a person is not capable to reproduce he/she doesn't break anything.
When a person is capable to reproduce he/she breaks natural law. If a cat decides not to reproduce it will break natural law.
Well you've solved your own dilemma there! A homosexual man isn't capable of reproducing, so he's not broken your natural law of every living thing must have babies.
It does however now present you with the larger problem of all those heterosexual couples that wont reproduce.
Quote from: "The Skeletal Atheist"Quote from: "Plu"Stop feeding the trolls gentlemen :)
But I need a chew toy!
And it's so cute! Can I keep it? :D
Quote from: "Eve"Typical communist thinking. I am not surprised. Communist/progressive decides ho deserves what and uses while claiming he is for freedom an opportunities for others.
You decided what I deserve ad forced on me your uncivility. It is pure evil. :twisted:
Yup, yup, you got me, I'm a Nazi-Communist-Satanist-Muslim-Jew-Atheist bent on destroying Christianity, the last hope for human salvation. ph34r m3
Quote from: "Eve"Oh, Great Master, you are so kind.
I am a beneficent god.
Quote from: "Eve"really? and what is my religion?
An enlightened, humble Christian, dedicated to the extermination of evil. Sickening.
Quote from: "Eve"I agreed to be polite on this forum to others. I keep my word. You don't.
Word? I don't seem to recall ever agreeing to be polite on an unconditional basis. Oh right, because I didn't.
Quote from: "Eve"Read the rules, my friend. Keep your agreement. civil person is always civil person. You are not civil person.
RELAX, my friend. :-D
I have made no agreement to remain civil with obvious trolls.
(//http://www.troll.me/images/preacher/lawd-moderatah-i-call-upon-thee-to-ban-this-troll.jpg)
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"[ Image (//http://www.troll.me/images/preacher/lawd-moderatah-i-call-upon-thee-to-ban-this-troll.jpg) ]
AMEN! Praise to the Mods!!! Praise to the Mods!!! :rollin:
Quote from: "Jason78"Well you've solved your own dilemma there! A homosexual man isn't capable of reproducing, so he's not broken your natural law of every living thing must have babies.
I agree. If he isn't capable than he doesn't brake the law "multiply and replenish the earth"
Quote from: "Jason78"It does however now present you with the larger problem of all those heterosexual couples that wont reproduce.
I agree with You. They break the law.
The only argument against gay marriage is this: If I believe that it is immoral I will never support it. If I believe that marriage between father and his daughter is immoral I will never support it. Does it mean that I am a bad person? No. Does it mean that supporters of gay marriage are bad people? No.
If I believe that plural marriage is moral I will support it. Not to support gay marriage is my right and doesn't make me a bad person. Not to support marriage between parent and child is my right and doesn't make me a bad person.
I agree that what Bible says is not an argument.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Jason78"Well you've solved your own dilemma there! A homosexual man isn't capable of reproducing, so he's not broken your natural law of every living thing must have babies.
I agree. If he isn't capable than he doesn't brake the law "multiply and replenish the earth"
Quote from: "Jason78"It does however now present you with the larger problem of all those heterosexual couples that wont reproduce.
I agree with You. They break the law.
The only argument against gay marriage is this: If I believe that it is immoral I will never support it. If I believe that marriage between father and his daughter is immoral I will never support it. Does it mean that I am a bad person? No. Does it mean that supporters of gay marriage are bad people? No.
If I believe that plural marriage is moral I will support it. Not to support gay marriage is my right and doesn't make me a bad person. Not to support marriage between parent and child is my right and doesn't make me a bad person.
I agree that what Bible says is not an argument.
Couple of points.
1) No one cares if
support marraige between gays or not. We only care that you want to take away someone's individual rights and forcing YOUR religious belief on the citizens of this nation.
2) Incest and pedophilia are in no way shape or form comparable to gay marraige and you doing so is intellectually dishonest. Besides the bible endorses incest. Lott made love to his daughters. So god's law has no problem with incest. If you agree with the bible then you endorse incest as well.
You are still a NAZI fascist bitch so yes you are a bad person.