I am a veteran. I have a ball cap with the name of one of the ships I served aboard that was given to me many years ago. I don't wear it very often, because I think of it as a keepsake, rather than an item of apparel. Yesterday I took it out of the closet and wore it while shopping. Because I live in an area not far from a military base with a lot of retired Air Force and Army people around, a Navy hat is a bit unique. Many vehicles have "retired Army" or Air Force bumper stickers and window decals. I went home and took the hat off and put it back in the closet. I may never wear it again. It seemed like a silly exercise in vanity to me.
I actually felt stupid wearing it, like I was calling attention to myself. Veteran's Day to me is like, ok, let's note their service or whatever, but it seems there is too much hype over it to me. A high percentage of our populace has served; growing up in the country and in poor conditions, the military was an automatic way to get out of that and pay for an education. I think it still is today.
The other thing that's ludicrous to me is the Veteran's Day movie marathons. Almost invariably one of the movies will be Full Metal Jacket, which is about as antiwar as it gets, and The Green Berets, a ridiculous John Wayne vehicle that was stunningly inaccurate and pointlessly patriotic nonsense. I've seen Hollywood actors storming the beach at Normandy to the point that it is just silly. I don't agree with anything that glorifies war anymore.
I really don't know. After dealing with a son who suffered PTSD when returning from Iraq and then Afghanistan, people who in some way glorify military service don't recognize the cost, certainly.
Sum it all up? I don't know. Recognize their service, but don't glorify anything about war. It is a miserable and pointless exercise of slaughter and conquest perpetrated by people who will seldom wear a uniform or fight. I think the majority like me served as a reason to move their live forward. Something like 10% of all military actually serve in combat, the rest in supporting roles. I served aboard a ship during the Cold War, and had contact with Soviet ships on a few rare occasions, but no shooting. So I certainly don't relate to ol' John Wayne strapped with a .45 and swaggering through the jungle looking all butch and shit. Fuck him in his grave.
Quote from: "stromboli"Something like 10% of all military actually serve in combat, the rest in supporting roles.
According to my uncle, who served in the army for many years, that's been changing as of late. Parts of the army that previously served purely as "combat support" (and technically still do) see combat quite frequently now due to their skills being needed out in the field. My uncle, for example, was an interrogator, and immediately after they captured someone he would begin a field interrogation; which I guess would be unheard of just a few years before he joined up. Because of how technology is changing how wars are fought, a lot of those "combat support" roles
have to be on the field now. In his own words, "There really isn't room for the 'dumb grunt' anymore."
I never served, but for some reason, I know what you mean. I wore a National Rifle Association hat as a symbol of identification one time in public. Yes, years ago I was a member, but quit when I decided that the organization was too fanatical for my tastes. I wore it on a hike by myself into the Wilderness, where I met a nice looking woman on the trail. I'm standing there talking to her with my NRA cap and my 44 strapped to my hip feeling like a complete idiot. LOL
A couple of years later, I was looking for that hat, but I couldn't find it. I kiddingly accused my wife of throwing it out. I said, "I know you threw out that hat, because it embarrassed you to have a husband in the NRA," and she put on this unnecessarily innocent air with big round eyes and said, "Nooo, I didn't throw it away." But I knew she did, and she knew I knew, but it was one of those things she would do over some trivial thing that I would ask her about. What made it even funnier was that even when I pressed her seriously, she wouldn't admit it, and she would get all the more innocent looking. She thought the NRA was nuts. I'm convinced she threw it out.
But calling attention to yourself for something that really doesn't matter is kind of pointless. I recognize someone's service to the country, even if they went because they were drafted, but it's not something I get gushy about. Frankly, I think the way politicians gush over our "brave men in uniform" is kind of sickening. Why not gush over teachers and firemen too? Some of them probably get PTS.
Quote from: "stromboli"I am a veteran. I have a ball cap with the name of one of the ships I served aboard that was given to me many years ago. I don't wear it very often, because I think of it as a keepsake, rather than an item of apparel. Yesterday I took it out of the closet and wore it while shopping. Because I live in an area not far from a military base with a lot of retired Air Force and Army people around, a Navy hat is a bit unique. Many vehicles have "retired Army" or Air Force bumper stickers and window decals. I went home and took the hat off and put it back in the closet. I may never wear it again. It seemed like a silly exercise in vanity to me.
I actually felt stupid wearing it, like I was calling attention to myself. Veteran's Day to me is like, ok, let's note their service or whatever, but it seems there is too much hype over it to me. A high percentage of our populace has served; growing up in the country and in poor conditions, the military was an automatic way to get out of that and pay for an education. I think it still is today.
The other thing that's ludicrous to me is the Veteran's Day movie marathons. Almost invariably one of the movies will be Full Metal Jacket, which is about as antiwar as it gets, and The Green Berets, a ridiculous John Wayne vehicle that was stunningly inaccurate and pointlessly patriotic nonsense. I've seen Hollywood actors storming the beach at Normandy to the point that it is just silly. I don't agree with anything that glorifies war anymore.
I really don't know. After dealing with a son who suffered PTSD when returning from Iraq and then Afghanistan, people who in some way glorify military service don't recognize the cost, certainly.
Sum it all up? I don't know. Recognize their service, but don't glorify anything about war. It is a miserable and pointless exercise of slaughter and conquest perpetrated by people who will seldom wear a uniform or fight. I think the majority like me served as a reason to move their live forward. Something like 10% of all military actually serve in combat, the rest in supporting roles. I served aboard a ship during the Cold War, and had contact with Soviet ships on a few rare occasions, but no shooting. So I certainly don't relate to ol' John Wayne strapped with a .45 and swaggering through the jungle looking all butch and shit. Fuck him in his grave.
I couldn't agree more! Solitary
Quote from: "stromboli"I am a veteran. I have a ball cap with the name of one of the ships I served aboard that was given to me many years ago. I don't wear it very often, because I think of it as a keepsake, rather than an item of apparel. Yesterday I took it out of the closet and wore it while shopping. Because I live in an area not far from a military base with a lot of retired Air Force and Army people around, a Navy hat is a bit unique. Many vehicles have "retired Army" or Air Force bumper stickers and window decals. I went home and took the hat off and put it back in the closet. I may never wear it again. It seemed like a silly exercise in vanity to me.
I actually felt stupid wearing it, like I was calling attention to myself. Veteran's Day to me is like, ok, let's note their service or whatever, but it seems there is too much hype over it to me. A high percentage of our populace has served; growing up in the country and in poor conditions, the military was an automatic way to get out of that and pay for an education. I think it still is today.
The other thing that's ludicrous to me is the Veteran's Day movie marathons. Almost invariably one of the movies will be Full Metal Jacket, which is about as antiwar as it gets, and The Green Berets, a ridiculous John Wayne vehicle that was stunningly inaccurate and pointlessly patriotic nonsense. I've seen Hollywood actors storming the beach at Normandy to the point that it is just silly. I don't agree with anything that glorifies war anymore.
I really don't know. After dealing with a son who suffered PTSD when returning from Iraq and then Afghanistan, people who in some way glorify military service don't recognize the cost, certainly.
Sum it all up? I don't know. Recognize their service, but don't glorify anything about war. It is a miserable and pointless exercise of slaughter and conquest perpetrated by people who will seldom wear a uniform or fight. I think the majority like me served as a reason to move their live forward. Something like 10% of all military actually serve in combat, the rest in supporting roles. I served aboard a ship during the Cold War, and had contact with Soviet ships on a few rare occasions, but no shooting. So I certainly don't relate to ol' John Wayne strapped with a .45 and swaggering through the jungle looking all butch and shit. Fuck him in his grave.
I feel somewhat the same. I really don't like when people come up to me and say "Thank you for your service." They are usually complete strangers. They don't know what they are saying in the first place. They have no idea what service really is. I volunteered anyway and my service was my own choice. I was paid for that service. Most of these people that say such a thing think that they are patriotic, when all they do is pay lip service, wave a flag once in awhile and buy a ribbon sticker for their car. They haven't done a damn thing for this nation except complain about taxes. The taxes that they invariably cheat on in the first place. They make me sick.
I'm with you about the movies and especially John "coward" Wayne! He didn't serve a minute in the service nor did he do anything to support the troops or the war effort in his lifetime! He was the biggest fraud in American history. His acting was terrible, inaccurate, and filled with macho cliche`s! He spawned a whole genre of movies and bad actors that did nothing but blow things up and spew macho cliche`s, Eastwood, Arnold, Stalone Willis etc....!
I usually keep to myself on Vets day. It's a painful day for me. I can't stand how the coward conservatives try to hijack the day as if no Liberal ever served. The truth is only Liberal Presidents win wars and conservaturds usually start them. Yesturday the Navy "christened" (religious), our new Aircraft carrier...The Gerald Ford. Ford never saw combat and was historically one of the most incompitent elected officials ever. Funny how the only 2 Democratic party presidents to have a ship named for them are JFK and Truman. FDR was the most successful president in history. LBJ was one of the most effective. Clinton took this nation from economic abbyss to success and won the war on Kosavo, and Obama saved this nation from another depression AND killed the biggest terrorist in American history! It pisses me off that the military doesn't recognize the people who really care about the troops and actually win the wars. My guess "W" will be the next carrier and why it can't understand. A Texas Air National Guard officer that went AWOL to conduct a political campaign. He also started two wars and didn't win them. He drove this nation to economic ruin. I can't even believe that built him a library!
What would really piss me off is if they finance and build a super carrier and name it after John Wayne! Fuck the cowrad false patriot conservaturds. They aren't Americans, they're self-entitled whiney elitest spoiled brats.
I totally understand what you mean. I do want to support those men and woman who have come home from terrible wars, but I am also strongly anti-war, so....
I never celebrate Veteran's day, despite most of my male relatives, including my husband, being vets. Most never saw combat though.
Anyway, this year I am walking in the parade, because my Girl Scout troop voted to go. I feel kind of strange and hypocritical doing it, most of my girls are not old enough to understand a thing about what this holiday actually means, they just want to ride the float and hand out candy.
Quote from: "Aroura33"I totally understand what you mean. I do want to support those men and woman who have come home from terrible wars, but I am also strongly anti-war, so....
I never celebrate Veteran's day, despite most of my male relatives, including my husband, being vets. Most never saw combat though.
Anyway, this year I am walking in the parade, because my Girl Scout troop voted to go. I feel kind of strange and hypocritical doing it, most of my girls are not old enough to understand a thing about what this holiday actually means, they just want to ride the float and hand out candy.
Hey you aren't a hypocrit if you are against war. I have been in combat many times and I'm anti-war.
Recognizing and supporting veterans isn't pro-war, it's recognizing and supporting people who've stepped up and put their lives on the line when the need arose. While people join and serve for different reasons, they don't make the decision to go to war, that's what politicians do.
Hell, I was career military and am very much against war but recognize it's sometimes necessary. I don't think it was necessary to go into Iraq, and think we've stayed entirely too long in Afghanistan, but I respect and support those veterans who served, and are still serving, in those conflicts.
As far as the military hats and bumper stickers are concerned, it's neither here nor there with me. If someone is proud of serving and wants to advertise it, I say go for it. I think for some it's a kind of coping mechanism.
Yea, war sucks and by all means be opposed to it, but don't turn your backs on those people who fought in them. A whole lot of them need support.
I once got into a bar fight, and I am[s:kpttivpn]proud[/s:kpttivpn] egoistic to say I tore the place up and kicked some ass, all because some jack-wipe thought he could play keep away with my brothers vietnam "recon hat" he gave me. His "game" lasted him grabbing my hat and tossing it to his friend, the rest of his game was me straddling him pounding the fuck outa his face with two guys holding my arms.
That is the only time I have ever in any way brought attention to myself or anything else by way of "advertising". I don't wear hats anymore, I don't have bumper stickers, I don't wear shirts with names on them or even logos. Ha, I just bought a new truck and tore the dealership sticker off. I don't advertise for anyone, I don't try to assume my likes are yours as I don't care. I am the worst fear of every advertiser in the world.. I am not advertising for me let alone for you got that?
I like nice clothes like everyone else but if it has a name on it, I am not wearing it. Along that line, I don't care what the rich/ authors/ singers/ stars/ athletes/ president or any one of supposed influence says or thinks... I can do that myself tyvm. This, I have always considered to be a trait of atheism...not because it is, but because I never met any atheist for my first 15 years I thought this would have to be the natural route to atheism, that being, to ignore what everyone else thinks in favor of what you think. This might also explain to some of you, why I really don't care what you think. Other than that, I love each and every almost one of you.....
> Almost invariably one of the movies will be Full Metal Jacket, which is about as antiwar as it gets,
Veterans' Day should be interpreted as anti-war. It should emphasize the cost of unnecessary incursions into other countries' business and land. The best way to remember those who served is to avoid wasting additional lives for frivolous nationalistic and political motives.
Frank
Lt Col, USAF (Ret)
To me, Veterans Day is primarily to honor the living. I think of it as a day to recognize all those who served, and on a personal level, it reminds me to support those that are still dealing with the troubles of their service.
Memorial Day is for remembering the dead.
I was required to wear a hat at the VA, the paper ones were a no go. So I wore a fancy Marine one....hated every second of it. I wear a camouflage floppy when I hike etc., but the fancy ones are awful.
Remembrance Day is today.
When I think about my time in the Army, I feel a little embarrassed that I am being honored for that, considering what a dick I was back then.
There's probably a distinction to make between a veteran like me, who never combat, and those who served in combat. Even emerging from combat without a scratch on you is making a sacrifice. I try to make a distinction between the men and women who actually risk their well-being and the chicken hawks who start pointless wars. It's possible to honor them for their sacrifice without it turning into jingoistic nonsense.
War is hell on earth for too many men and women. Fuck the politicians who sit home and make money with the war machine and their lies. And to hell with all the religious leaders that support them and think it is glorious to sacrifice ones self for idealism. This is why, and doesn't even touch the horror of war, and the innocent lives sacrificed for politician's lies:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/21134540/vp=5 ... � (http://www.nbcnews.com/id/21134540/vp=53519638�) :roll: :evil: Solitary
I for one appreciate what our vets have gone through, the many who died, or come back with PTSD, injured, etc.
and then they get treated like crap by our government. both from sending them to dumb wars that shouldn't be fought, and by doing things like cutting benefits to help vets get medical care, food, home, mental care, etc.
I think folks can go too far, but I think its nice to at least pause and think about it, and be grateful to the folks who gave their lives, or lost limbs or lost their mind so we could be free.
come to think of it maybe we need less parades and fancy talk and more action to help our vets. less politicians using them as political props and more politicians actually standing up for them.
[youtube:320texl6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOfrnKqk3zw[/youtube:320texl6]
Aitm..funny.. When I was a kid my dad would rip dealership stickers, logos, license plate frames, etc., off his cars so I asked why. I knew his job was in advertising, but his answer only made sense once he explained that he made his living in advertising, but he didn't sell cars. If the dealer wants to place ads on his car he wants a nice, big, fat discount or to get paid. He didn't work for free and neither should you.
The same is true of the US government. Very few of us are paid to advertise anyone's products much less war and the trillions spent to promote it. If uncle sugar wants me to be a walking billboard then uncle sugar can pay for the ad space.
By the way, did anyone use your VA or military ID to go get your free meal today at the many restaurants getting in on the veterans gravy train? I thought about it, but ate macaroni and velveta® today..
Quote from: "hillbillyatheist"I for one appreciate what our vets have gone through, the many who died, or come back with PTSD, injured, etc.
and then they get treated like crap by our government. both from sending them to dumb wars that shouldn't be fought, and by doing things like cutting benefits to help vets get medical care, food, home, mental care, etc.
I think folks can go too far, but I think its nice to at least pause and think about it, and be grateful to the folks who gave their lives, or lost limbs or lost their mind so we could be free.
come to think of it maybe we need less parades and fancy talk and more action to help our vets. less politicians using them as political props and more politicians actually standing up for them.
Writer posted a YouTube video (//http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOfrnKqk3zw)
"so we could be free." You really believe our men and women are fighting now for "our" freedom or anyone else's. Let's go after China and North Korea, and many people in Africa who aren't free next so we can have more pictures like this for "our" freedom:(//http://i.imgur.com/og4NUEh.jpg) (//http://i.imgur.com/ZIqJwkE.jpg) Both pictures were done because of politicians' desires in this country, and had nothing to do with out freedom or ending a war. We have less freedom now from our own government since Cheney and Bush told the biggest lie in history and now we have even more terrorists because of our government and its war machine. War is a big money maker for those who have stock in it like Halliburton that used to be run by Cheney. Solitary
All war is over money and power, NOT yours nor my freedom. Freedom sounds all warm and fuzzy, but there's little basis of truth there. Bush famously said, 'They hate freedom.' Personally I know of nobody who hates freedom.
PLEASE! ENSLAVE ME AND USE ME FOR YOUR OWN PERSONAL GAIN!
Really?
I don't think iraq and such are for freedom. notice I mention stupid wars.
but take WWII. you think if America had just tried to sing "Give Peace a Chance" to hitler that we could have avoided that war?
WWII was also a money/power grab. Nobody was singing John Lenon songs at that time and the US didn't join that war till later after most of Europe had already fallen and it wasn't for 'our' freedom.
I fully support the troops and their reasons for joining the military (both ethical/philosophical [protecting one's country/family/it's the right thing] or economic [it is a way to make money]).
That said, I am very opposed to their job and the institution built around it. I am not afraid to say I fully am against the jobs they did, even though I get some real shit from my family for it. They don't seem to grasp that, "Hey, you invaded a foreign country that did nothing to us and turned the place to even more shit than it was... I don't like that." doesn't mean, "Fuck the troops.".
The military is opposite to my ethics, my political stances (That we should spend money on our people rather than a corporations bombs) and I just don't see a reason to celebrate it.
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"WWII was also a money/power grab.
It was a money/power grab for Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, and Hirohito. I don't think it reasonably could be construed as a power/money grab by Churchill, Roosevelt, and Daladier. If that's what they wanted they could have worked out a deal to carve up the spoils with Germany and Japan in exchange for staying out of the war the way Stalin did before Hitler turned on him. Germany and Japan certainly tried to entice the Western democracies with exactly that, but it didn't work.
As I mentioned in the OP, the majority of people who join the military do it to improve their life situation or get an education. GI bill paid for my degree, at least in part. Both my sons joined for that reason. They are both career military through their own choice- they got what they wanted and stayed in. One has seen heavy combat on 3 tours, the other never got near a combat zone and is now a recruiter. Both are senior noncoms, one a decorated First Sergeant, the other a 1st Class Petty Officer.
The vast majority of people who join don't do it to become John Wayne stereotyped gunslingers. I myself served in a cold war that never theoretically fired a shot, yet was the longest and costliest war in our history. The irony is that the cold war was won more for economic reasons than military- we kept upping the ante until the Soviets collapsed economically. Good ol' Capitalism was our best weapon.
I respect people who served their nation, my family certainly has. But I put it in perspective. To glorify war in any aspect and not understand the underlying power struggle among nations and economies is foolish. Respect the veterans, but never respect the wars they fought in.
Quote from: "aileron"Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"WWII was also a money/power grab.
It was a money/power grab for Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, and Hirohito. I don't think it reasonably could be construed as a power/money grab by Churchill, Roosevelt, and Daladier. If that's what they wanted they could have worked out a deal to carve up the spoils with Germany and Japan in exchange for staying out of the war the way Stalin did before Hitler turned on him. Germany and Japan certainly tried to entice the Western democracies with exactly that, but it didn't work.
I don't know enough about it during the war, but the whole start of WW2 was a money/power grab by the Western powers saying that Germany had to pay exorbitant reparations that destroyed the German economy.
I would also argue late WW2 was a bit of a power grab by the U.S. to secure any territory that could possibly fall under communistic regimes and to expand their empire.
Quote from: "hillbillyatheist"I don't think iraq and such are for freedom. notice I mention stupid wars.
but take WWII. you think if America had just tried to sing "Give Peace a Chance" to hitler that we could have avoided that war?
I did notice you said "stupid wars"---aren't they all stupid wars? Going into that war was justified because Hitler was invading other countries and coming here next. That is a no different than what we and England did in the Middle East, and we did in Korea (where we still have troops) and Vietnam and other countries for "our" freedom. An ideology cannot be destroyed by war anymore than religion can unless there is not one single enemy that is not killed. When a country invades another country it is wrong for many reasons.
That is why there is a United Nations to stop countries from invading other countries. But dropping an atomic bomb on two Japanese cites with civilians like we did is the same or even worst than what Hitler did for no strategic reasons since the Japanese military was already defeated. I remember you from way back when, and I really don't mean to upset you if I am. :wink: These are just my opinions, or not. Solitary
I don't get offended by people disagreeing with me. its cool.
the atom bomb was wrong. I've learned they were already wanting to surrender but truman wanted to show the russians our new toy. so yeah we suck too.
but I still think that because other people suck too, that having a military is necessary to protect our freedom. even if they're are abused by the elite, the simple fact is if we didn't have a military, we'd get invaded by other shitbags wanting our resources. They don't fuck with us because they know they'd get their clocks cleaned.
so its not false to say that the military keeps us free, even if its true that our elite are shitheads too, and many of our wars weren't necessary.
My father fought in World War One, the "war to end all wars" which it should have been. 20 million dead, yet only a run up to WW2. He went there in a patriotic fervor, a healthy young athletic man who came back wasted after surviving 7 gas attacks, which left him with horrific asthma and unable to ever support the family of eight children his long suffering wife raised. That is a side of war everyone should see.
Suffice it to say Veterans day has become more an advertising slogan almost as much as Xmas and it's a shame because it was Armistice day before being known as veterans day. It seems this nation, the US seems in love with bullshit hero worship and the more violent the better. The date, November 11 is significant because the armistice was signed on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, but the 11th hour now is more known for Washington bullshit than anthing else..
Quote from: "Shiranu"I don't know enough about it during the war, but the whole start of WW2 was a money/power grab by the Western powers saying that Germany had to pay exorbitant reparations that destroyed the German economy.
Your analysis is too simplistic. There's way more to the story. War reparations did not wreck the German economy, though they certainly didn't help. After reissuing currency Germany could have paid the greatly reduced reparations of the Dawes plan if they had any intent to do so, but in the end they never fully paid the reduced reparations either. In any case, other factors contributed to German pre-WWII expansionist policy much more than the outcome of WWI. Germany after all had an Eastward expansionist ambition for centuries.
QuoteI would also argue late WW2 was a bit of a power grab by the U.S. to secure any territory that could possibly fall under communistic regimes and to expand their empire.
What's wrong with a power grab if the intent is to form an alliance of willing nations against the Stalinist Soviet Union, one of the most murderous governments the Earth has known? The USA didn't force Western Europe into NATO or force Japan, Korea, Australia, etc. to become allies. So in what sense other than hyperbole is it an empire?
This, from Kurt Vonnegut:
QuoteI will come to a time in my backwards trip when November eleventh, accidentally my birthday, was a sacred day called Armistice Day. When I was a boy, and when Dwayne Hoover was a boy, all the people of all the nations which had fought in the First World War were silent during the eleventh minute of the eleventh hour of Armistice Day, which was the eleventh day of the eleventh month.
It was during that minute in nineteen hundred and eighteen, that millions upon millions of human beings stopped butchering one another. I have talked to old men who were on battlefields during that minute. They have told me in one way or another that the sudden silence was the Voice of God. So we still have among us some men who can remember when God spoke clearly to mankind.
Armistice Day has become Veterans' Day. Armistice Day was sacred. Veterans' Day is not.
So I will throw Veterans' Day over my shoulder. Armistice Day I will keep. I don't want to throw away any sacred things. -- Breakfast of Champions
About as powerful a statement as I can imagine.
Rather than grieving, it might be more appropriate to grab a pitchfork on Veterans day and join a mob bent on storming the Capitol to rid Washington of the fear mongers and manipulators that caused these deaths.
Quote from: "stromboli"This, from Kurt Vonnegut:
QuoteI will come to a time in my backwards trip when November eleventh, accidentally my birthday, was a sacred day called Armistice Day. When I was a boy, and when Dwayne Hoover was a boy, all the people of all the nations which had fought in the First World War were silent during the eleventh minute of the eleventh hour of Armistice Day, which was the eleventh day of the eleventh month.
It was during that minute in nineteen hundred and eighteen, that millions upon millions of human beings stopped butchering one another. I have talked to old men who were on battlefields during that minute. They have told me in one way or another that the sudden silence was the Voice of God. So we still have among us some men who can remember when God spoke clearly to mankind.
Armistice Day has become Veterans' Day. Armistice Day was sacred. Veterans' Day is not.
So I will throw Veterans' Day over my shoulder. Armistice Day I will keep. I don't want to throw away any sacred things. -- Breakfast of Champions
About as powerful a statement as I can imagine.
Indeed Stromboli.. Perhaps our national 'leaders' need to read this on national if not global TV every November 11 to remind people just why there was even an Armistice day in the first place instead of pretending soldiers are just players of some perverted football game at halftime.
I'm old enough to remember when Armistice Day was a thing, so I can relate; that, and my father fought in WW1, so my connection is a bit closer than most. Ridding ourselves of the ideologies and underlying motives that lead to war would be the biggest advancement humanity could make.
My dad's dad fought in WWI as well. He wasn't physically injured that I know of, but he did become a lifetime alcoholic and very violent. He didn't beat my grandmother, but till his death at 70 would pick pointless fights with most anyone else. I'm not sure if the war played a part, but it sure didn't prevent his behavior..
Anyway..the glorification of war and violence is disturbing and a huge, unnecessary drain on humanity.
A former shipmate posted a pic of our division when we were topside in 1996. My Veterans/Armistice Day was mostly reminiscing about the good times and trying to ignore the bad ones. I think we were in Alaska in that pic, when one of our division re-upped (and now he's a Master Chief Petty Officer). :)
I don't think people deserve special recognition for merely being soldiers. Fighting for your country is only a noble thing if your country is doing something noble. I suppose your country as a whole could be doing something bad and you could be doing something good (and vise versa).
There seems to be this idea that if you're a state sanctioned thug with a rifle that you automatically deserve respect. That's fucking stupid. I think we should give them a level of respect based on their actions and the goals they furthered, not simply if they fought for their country.
In other words, I wouldn't go up to an American ww2 veteran that dropped firebombs on civilian targets and immediately start shaking his hand, saying, "Thank you for your service", and offer him a blowjob and a free meal at Applebees. Yes, thank you for burning Japanese civilians to death, what an honorable action. :roll:
And if you're one of those people that served during peacetime and didn't actually do anything, then what's the point?
I think quite an interesting book everyone should should have a look at is War Against War! By Ernst Friedrich.
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