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The Lobby => Introductions => Topic started by: arbaim on November 08, 2013, 01:47:29 PM

Title: Unbelievable!
Post by: arbaim on November 08, 2013, 01:47:29 PM
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Title: Re: Unbelievable!
Post by: stromboli on November 08, 2013, 02:43:54 PM
Welcome. You are not alone. There are a few people on here with similar stories. This shows how divisive religion can be. Faith trumps family bonds without any attempt to prove their beliefs. I lost a few brothers and sisters when I left Mormonism, but that isn't as harsh as what you are going through.
Title: Re: Unbelievable!
Post by: PickelledEggs on November 08, 2013, 03:45:34 PM
Oh man. That is very sad to hear. :(  Anyway, welcome. We got your back. :)
Title: Re: Unbelievable!
Post by: Jason78 on November 09, 2013, 05:40:24 AM
Family eh?


Welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: Unbelievable!
Post by: Brian37 on November 09, 2013, 06:45:14 AM
I get so angry at PC atheists and liberal theists when they say "don't pick on religion". This is why religion needs to be challenged. I was lucky myself because my mom never really shoved it down my throat, but when I did come out she did see it as a "phase", which she knows now it is not.

But far too many in ALL religions get treated like this. My younger sister caught crap when she made her atheism public to the family. I've had someone try to have me fired, and been shouted at in public for someone merely seeing the word on a bumpersticker or hat.

There are still states where an atheist cannot sit on a jury or hold even a dog catcher's job. There are atheists overseas who have been murdered for speaking out.

You are never going to rid 7 billion people of all their delusions, but religion must be treated as the loaded gun it is, through challenging and questioning.

Rest assured you are NOT alone.
Title: Re: Unbelievable!
Post by: SGOS on November 09, 2013, 07:27:17 AM
That must have been the longest text message anyone has ever sent.  Good thing she ended it with ".M".  Otherwise, it may have been excessive in length.

There are a lot of people who get emotional about their religion.  They are more emotional than thoughtful about their place in the universe.  When they feel threatened, they don't think.  They become emotional.  

They may not be as important as they have been taught to believe (You know:  Being made in the image of a God [a God, mind you], being looked after by an all powerful Force that could smite down their foes, and all the other ego inflating bullshit that religions promise).  Well, it's just a bummer facing the fact that you simply aren't that special.  You might die and that might just be the end.  I see why they go nuts.  They are overly ego involved about their place in the universe.
Title: Re: Unbelievable!
Post by: Mermaid on November 09, 2013, 07:42:51 AM
This kind of thing is a reminder of how pervasive religion is. Being an atheist is akin to being a child porn addict in some circles. Your story is a reminder that I am lucky to be surrounded by people who are either nonreligious or more apathetic about it than your people. How smothering and terrible that would be to live amongst that.

What a great example of Christianity to tell your child that you DESPISE them because they don't believe in God. Shame on her. And I am sorry you've been hurt like this by your own mother for being honest with her about who you are. That hardly seems Christian to me. And at its most basic level, it's complete disrespect.

Coming out as an atheist is a lot like coming out as a homosexual to some. I am very grateful that I don't have such judgment and disrespect in my family, or I would certainly resent them secretly while hiding my true self from them, and being the person I am, I'd probably hide it forever. It's enough to have to keep it to myself professionally, but not being able to be honest with my own family for fear of being ostracized would be very hard. So you have my respect for being able to tell your family knowing how it would go over. But it's out there. I hope they don't harass you to death over it.
Title: Re: Unbelievable!
Post by: Mermaid on November 09, 2013, 07:59:51 AM
Quote from: "Brian37"I get so angry at PC atheists and liberal theists when they say "don't pick on religion". This is why religion needs to be challenged.
Isn't picking on religion the same as picking on atheists? I resent people proselytizing to me, so I wouldn't do it to anyone else. I think coming from either side, it is fundamentally disrespectful.
Title: Re: Unbelievable!
Post by: Aupmanyav on November 09, 2013, 09:17:50 AM
I agree with that. Perhaps you can make up with her at least for the time being. Go when you have to go, but not so abruptly.
Title: Re: Unbelievable!
Post by: Solitary on November 09, 2013, 09:40:27 AM
:-D  Welcome aboard arbaim! It's really a shame when people love superstitious nonsense and an imaginary figure more than their own flesh and blood. To be out of touch with reality to that degree is insane in my opinion. I  never had that kind of problem even though my mother was a Southern Methodist and could have periods of temporary insanity where she got totally out of control and suicidal and tried to take me with her when I was very young. Solitary
Title: Re: Unbelievable!
Post by: Brian37 on November 09, 2013, 12:29:17 PM
Quote from: "Mermaid"
Quote from: "Brian37"I get so angry at PC atheists and liberal theists when they say "don't pick on religion". This is why religion needs to be challenged.
Isn't picking on religion the same as picking on atheists? I resent people proselytizing to me, so I wouldn't do it to anyone else. I think coming from either side, it is fundamentally disrespectful.

What the fuck? Sorry, demands of taboos do not solve shit. They can make whatever naked assertion they want, but that does not mean because I support their right to spout bullshit that the claim deserves taboo status.

The earth is not flat, the moon is not made of cheese and the Yankees did not win the Superbowl. There is no such thing as virgin births, or zombie gods. No one is going to get a harem in a fictional afterlife. Rubbing a fat man statue will not bring you luck. Ouija Boards are bullshit too.

Do not equate skeptics to fundies merely because we call out a bad claim for what it is.
Title: Re: Unbelievable!
Post by: Mermaid on November 09, 2013, 12:46:20 PM
Quote from: "Brian37"
Quote from: "Mermaid"
Quote from: "Brian37"I get so angry at PC atheists and liberal theists when they say "don't pick on religion". This is why religion needs to be challenged.
Isn't picking on religion the same as picking on atheists? I resent people proselytizing to me, so I wouldn't do it to anyone else. I think coming from either side, it is fundamentally disrespectful.

What the fuck? Sorry, demands of taboos do not solve shit. They can make whatever naked assertion they want, but that does not mean because I support their right to spout bullshit that the claim deserves taboo status.

The earth is not flat, the moon is not made of cheese and the Yankees did not win the Superbowl. There is no such thing as virgin births, or zombie gods. No one is going to get a harem in a fictional afterlife. Rubbing a fat man statue will not bring you luck. Ouija Boards are bullshit too.

Do not equate skeptics to fundies merely because we call out a bad claim for what it is.
I think you are reading way more into what I said than you should. What do you mean by demands of taboos?
Not proselytizing doesn't mean you are supporting anything. What is the point of telling people they are wrong?
Title: Re: Unbelievable!
Post by: Brian37 on November 09, 2013, 01:29:06 PM
Quote from: "Mermaid"I think you are reading way more into what I said than you should. What do you mean by demands of taboos?
Not proselytizing doesn't mean you are supporting anything. What is the point of telling people they are wrong?

Religion advertises in the public and on private media all the time. It is not "proselytizing" to take them on on their turf using the same public and private media. If humans never questioned social norms our species never would have left the caves.

Theists make outrageous fantastic claims, and sell them everywhere. They dumb down society and vote on those fantastic claims with no evidence. They attack science instead of accepting it and insist on infecting education as well. While I cannot stop them from making the attempt, I certainly am going to use the same venues and media to call them out on their bad claims.
Title: Re: Unbelievable!
Post by: Mermaid on November 09, 2013, 02:31:32 PM
Quote from: "Brian37"
Quote from: "Mermaid"I think you are reading way more into what I said than you should. What do you mean by demands of taboos?
Not proselytizing doesn't mean you are supporting anything. What is the point of telling people they are wrong?

Religion advertises in the public and on private media all the time. It is not "proselytizing" to take them on on their turf using the same public and private media. If humans never questioned social norms our species never would have left the caves.

Theists make outrageous fantastic claims, and sell them everywhere. They dumb down society and vote on those fantastic claims with no evidence. They attack science instead of accepting it and insist on infecting education as well. While I cannot stop them from making the attempt, I certainly am going to use the same venues and media to call them out on their bad claims.
Ok, fair enough. That's your choice to make. I think it's stooping to their level and I won't do it. Everyone's different, I spose. That's what makes the world go around.
Title: Re: Unbelievable!
Post by: Brian37 on November 09, 2013, 04:56:15 PM
Quote from: "Mermaid"
Quote from: "Brian37"
Quote from: "Mermaid"I think you are reading way more into what I said than you should. What do you mean by demands of taboos?
Not proselytizing doesn't mean you are supporting anything. What is the point of telling people they are wrong?

Religion advertises in the public and on private media all the time. It is not "proselytizing" to take them on on their turf using the same public and private media. If humans never questioned social norms our species never would have left the caves.

Theists make outrageous fantastic claims, and sell them everywhere. They dumb down society and vote on those fantastic claims with no evidence. They attack science instead of accepting it and insist on infecting education as well. While I cannot stop them from making the attempt, I certainly am going to use the same venues and media to call them out on their bad claims.
Ok, fair enough. That's your choice to make. I think it's stooping to their level and I won't do it. Everyone's different, I spose. That's what makes the world go around.

"Stooping to their level"?

No, I don't pass laws oppressing others. I don't get violent when I get offended.

Being politically correct to placate the insecurities of people with naked assertions does not help humanity, otherwise we'd still believe the sun rotates around the earth.

"Everyone is different". NO SHIT.

Don't remember the source of this quote but "We are all entitled to our own opinions, but none of us are entitled to our own facts."

Since when is mentally growing up and giving up on bad information a bad thing? And why shouldn't we challenge absurd claims?

Don't confuse blasphemy and ridicule as being the same as oppressing others. Oppressing others is when you use laws and violence.
Title: Re: Unbelievable!
Post by: leo on November 09, 2013, 06:05:01 PM
Welcome ! remember religion is bullshit.
Title: Re: Unbelievable!
Post by: Mermaid on November 09, 2013, 06:39:19 PM
Quote from: "Brian37""Stooping to their level"?

No, I don't pass laws oppressing others. I don't get violent when I get offended.

Being politically correct to placate the insecurities of people with naked assertions does not help humanity, otherwise we'd still believe the sun rotates around the earth.

"Everyone is different". NO SHIT.

Don't remember the source of this quote but "We are all entitled to our own opinions, but none of us are entitled to our own facts."

Since when is mentally growing up and giving up on bad information a bad thing? And why shouldn't we challenge absurd claims?

Don't confuse blasphemy and ridicule as being the same as oppressing others. Oppressing others is when you use laws and violence.
Uh. Ok.

Your tone is angry, inappropriately nasty, and you are making a lot of assumptions about my opinion that you should not.
Title: Re: Unbelievable!
Post by: Brian37 on November 09, 2013, 06:50:56 PM
Quote from: "Mermaid"
Quote from: "Brian37""Stooping to their level"?

No, I don't pass laws oppressing others. I don't get violent when I get offended.

Being politically correct to placate the insecurities of people with naked assertions does not help humanity, otherwise we'd still believe the sun rotates around the earth.

"Everyone is different". NO SHIT.

Don't remember the source of this quote but "We are all entitled to our own opinions, but none of us are entitled to our own facts."

Since when is mentally growing up and giving up on bad information a bad thing? And why shouldn't we challenge absurd claims?

Don't confuse blasphemy and ridicule as being the same as oppressing others. Oppressing others is when you use laws and violence.
Uh. Ok.

Your tone is angry, inappropriately nasty, and you are making a lot of assumptions about my opinion that you should not.

Now you have me laughing. You are more concerned with my "tone" than the actual harm people do in the name of religion? Maybe you need to get your priorities in order.
Title: Re: Unbelievable!
Post by: Mermaid on November 09, 2013, 07:00:34 PM
No. I did not say that. Again you are assuming. I am all too aware of the harm religion does to people. I think my priorities are in fine order. I am sure you think the same of yours. I suspect, however, that our priorities are quite different. But thanks for the condescending tone.

You are making the assumption that because I do not tell theists that they are wrong and argue with them that I do not find religion repugnant and harmful.

I am happy you are finding amusement in this though.

I have gotten the sense quite often that I am not a good fit for this forum, because the members here like to pick fights. I just don't. And yes, I feel that your tone is unnecessarily aggressive and nasty. I don't think I've said anything to warrant that.
Title: Re: Unbelievable!
Post by: Brian37 on November 09, 2013, 07:08:37 PM
Quote from: "Mermaid"No. I did not say that. Again you are assuming. I am all too aware of the harm religion does to people. I think my priorities are in fine order. I am sure you think the same of yours. I suspect, however, that our priorities are quite different. But thanks for the condescending tone.

You are making the assumption that because I do not tell theists that they are wrong and argue with them that I do not find religion repugnant and harmful.

I am happy you are finding amusement in this though.

I have gotten the sense quite often that I am not a good fit for this forum, because the members here like to pick fights. I just don't. And yes, I feel that your tone is unnecessarily aggressive and nasty. I don't think I've said anything to warrant that.

Why isn't this form for you? Because everyone here isn't about puppy and kitten talk? Don't act like there are not a variety of atheists on this forum, you know well after 803 of your posts that we are all different. And don't talk to me about being condescending when you imply that we should only puppy talk about religion.

No one is asking you to leave so don't feign victim status.
Title: Re: Unbelievable!
Post by: Mermaid on November 09, 2013, 07:50:46 PM
Quote from: "Brian37"
Quote from: "Mermaid"No. I did not say that. Again you are assuming. I am all too aware of the harm religion does to people. I think my priorities are in fine order. I am sure you think the same of yours. I suspect, however, that our priorities are quite different. But thanks for the condescending tone.

You are making the assumption that because I do not tell theists that they are wrong and argue with them that I do not find religion repugnant and harmful.

I am happy you are finding amusement in this though.

I have gotten the sense quite often that I am not a good fit for this forum, because the members here like to pick fights. I just don't. And yes, I feel that your tone is unnecessarily aggressive and nasty. I don't think I've said anything to warrant that.

Why isn't this form for you? Because everyone here isn't about puppy and kitten talk? Don't act like there are not a variety of atheists on this forum, you know well after 803 of your posts that we are all different. And don't talk to me about being condescending when you imply that we should only puppy talk about religion.

No one is asking you to leave so don't feign victim status.
Really? Are you really this nasty?

WTF? I am no victim and am most definitely not implying that anyone is asking me to leave (which I have no intent to do and most definitely not because of you). You like to put words into people's mouths, apparently. I also never said everyone here was not different.

I am trying to be civil and you are being everything but. I never implied that we only talk about puppies and rainbows. I think this has to be misdirected anger, for this is rather puzzling to me. This started because I said I think it's pointless to try to argue with theists. That's it. Apparently you don't agree. That much is very clear. Then you went on to imply that because I do not agree, that I find religion ok and not harmful which is an absolutely retarded leap of logic.

You are being a fucking dick to me for no reason. I have no reason to continue to converse with someone who is being such a dick over ...what? Over nothing.

So bite me.