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Extraordinary Claims => Religion General Discussion => Christianity => Topic started by: lumpymunk on October 09, 2013, 12:14:04 AM

Title: Eroding the Historical Jesus (even more)
Post by: lumpymunk on October 09, 2013, 12:14:04 AM
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm (http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm)

Yet more evidence that the new testament was just an ancient Roman tool for controlling the masses.

...as if the case wasn't already closed... here is one more body of research that didn't end in a revival.
Title: Re: Eroding the Historical Jesus
Post by: stromboli on October 09, 2013, 12:33:04 AM
Quote[Jesus Christ] may be the only fictional character in literature whose entire life story can be traced to other sources.
From Atwill. Pretty much agree. He has a blog and has written other stuff.

http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/64 ... twill/blog (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/642801.Joseph_Atwill/blog)

Good find. Love to see how this plays out.
Title: Re: Eroding the Historical Jesus (even more)
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on October 09, 2013, 12:49:38 AM
The only part that bugs me somewhat is if indeed Atwell's findings are true and can be proven beyond any doubt is when you click on the link, covertjesus.com (?) you get BUY TICKETS.
Something this important it seems to me ought to be presented live and free to the global population and not just to academics and/or those who can afford tickets.. not that tithing is any different..
Title: Re: Eroding the Historical Jesus (even more)
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on October 09, 2013, 01:09:03 AM
I was just about to post this, but yeah, I'd like to see the Christians' reaction to this one. :rollin:
Title: Re: Eroding the Historical Jesus (even more)
Post by: Valigarmander on October 09, 2013, 01:27:36 AM
So far I'm unconvinced, but I guess we'll see how this plays out.
Title: Re: Eroding the Historical Jesus (even more)
Post by: Solitary on October 09, 2013, 01:31:09 AM
I hope it catches on.  8-)  Solitary
Title: Re: Eroding the Historical Jesus (even more)
Post by: Hydra009 on October 09, 2013, 03:13:14 AM
I dunno about this.  While it does make some sense that Romans would try to undermine Jewish belief in the messiah, intentionally creating a religion whole cloth seems like a bit of a stretch.  Especially one that was from inception very antagonistic towards Roman religion and ultimately its destruction.

The page really could have used far more detail on the claim that Jesus's life paralleled Titus Flavius (//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titus_Flavius)'s (which one?) military campaigns, as well.

Also, there's the incredibly doubtful claim that the people of the day left a "literary puzzle" to be solved by later generations.  That's suspiciously similar to Bible Code logic.   :rolleyes:

Also, the author's stance towards Christianity seems peculiar:

QuoteI present my work with some ambivalence, as I do not want to directly cause Christians any harm,
QuoteAlthough Christianity can be a comfort to some, it can also be very damaging and repressive, an insidious form of mind control that has led to blind acceptance of serfdom, poverty, and war throughout history. To this day, especially in the United States, it is used to create support for war in the Middle East."
Getting mixed messages here.   :-?

I'll read up more about it, but color me skeptical on this for the time being.
Title: Re: Eroding the Historical Jesus (even more)
Post by: Shiranu on October 09, 2013, 03:27:11 AM
Not buying it. I think Reza Aslan's (and other like-minded scholars, he is just the most well known atm) work on the subject is the most historically and logically plausible explanation given the information.
Title: Re: Eroding the Historical Jesus (even more)
Post by: stromboli on October 09, 2013, 08:18:34 AM
Like i said, see how this plays out. I have always thought that Jesus was a real person, due to the fact that there were many people in that era claiming to be the Messiah. Taking a known figure and grafting a religion onto him is not that big a stretch.

I can't find much on Atwill, but he has a previous book "The Caesar's Messiah" which apparently was made into a documentary. Hope he isn't a complete fraud.
Title: Re: Eroding the Historical Jesus (even more)
Post by: lumpymunk on October 10, 2013, 06:27:39 PM
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"The only part that bugs me somewhat is if indeed Atwell's findings are true and can be proven beyond any doubt is when you click on the link, covertjesus.com (?) you get BUY TICKETS.
Something this important it seems to me ought to be presented live and free to the global population and not just to academics and/or those who can afford tickets.. not that tithing is any different..

I think that if he has proof this will become common knowledge at some point... might as well cash in on the work he did uncovering it in the short term.
Title: Re: Eroding the Historical Jesus (even more)
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on October 10, 2013, 07:59:38 PM
Quote from: "lumpymunk"
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"The only part that bugs me somewhat is if indeed Atwell's findings are true and can be proven beyond any doubt is when you click on the link, covertjesus.com (?) you get BUY TICKETS.
Something this important it seems to me ought to be presented live and free to the global population and not just to academics and/or those who can afford tickets.. not that tithing is any different..

I think that if he has proof this will become common knowledge at some point... might as well cash in on the work he did uncovering it in the short term.
Common knowledge? HA! That's what Satan wants us to believe.
That's what religion will tell you and him and billions will agree. They would think that if you stuffed them in one big time machine and went back to 01/01/0000. :lol:
Baby Jesus had the first calendar in his swaddling.
Title: Re: Eroding the Historical Jesus (even more)
Post by: Colanth on October 10, 2013, 08:05:41 PM
Quote from: "Hydra009"I dunno about this.  While it does make some sense that Romans would try to undermine Jewish belief in the messiah, intentionally creating a religion whole cloth seems like a bit of a stretch.
Yeah, no one EVER had a reason important enough to do that (:::cough:::Hubbard:::cough:::).
Title: Re: Eroding the Historical Jesus (even more)
Post by: prophet on October 27, 2013, 12:40:19 AM
"As surely as I live" says the Lord "every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God..
Title: Re: Eroding the Historical Jesus (even more)
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on October 27, 2013, 01:22:30 AM
Quote from: "prophet""As surely as I live" says the Lord "every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God..
That doesn't sound like a mad dictator at all, no sirree. :roll:
Title: Re: Eroding the Historical Jesus (even more)
Post by: SGOS on October 27, 2013, 04:01:14 AM
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"The only part that bugs me somewhat is if indeed Atwell's findings are true and can be proven beyond any doubt is when you click on the link, covertjesus.com (?) you get BUY TICKETS.
Something this important it seems to me ought to be presented live and free to the global population and not just to academics and/or those who can afford tickets.. not that tithing is any different..
Unfortunately, the claim that rock solid evidence exists proving that Christianity is a government fabrication sounds too much like your average conspiracy theory.  In addition, with someone trying to cash in on the controversy for his personal gain, it takes on the appearance of a scam.

Don't get me wrong.  Christianity is most definitely a scam itself, but it looks as if someone might be trying to scam the bigger scam.

But that being said, now might be a good time to point out that conspiracy theories do not warrant the assumption of "bogus claims" just because they are labeled "conspiracy theories".  Virtually every conspiracy where government or corporate leaders conspire to lie and cheat is a theory until the truth is actually produced.

In fact, the word "conspiracy" is a legitimate word used to describe an actual event.  But in recent years, there has been a conspiracy to change the meaning of "conspiracy" to mean a contrived psychological disorder characterized by over zealous suspicion, rather than an actual event.
Title: Re: Eroding the Historical Jesus (even more)
Post by: aitm on October 27, 2013, 05:49:27 AM
I posted this a couple weeks ago on FB.....crickets from the usual gospel toting.