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Science Section => Science General Discussion => Topic started by: josephpalazzo on September 25, 2013, 06:31:13 PM

Title: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: josephpalazzo on September 25, 2013, 06:31:13 PM
geoengineering of the atmosphere's chemistry. This stark warning comes from the draft summary of the latest climate assessment by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change."

The news is gloomy.

QuoteIn other words, even if all the world ran on carbon-free energy and deforestation ceased, the only way of lowering temperatures would be to devise a scheme for sucking hundreds of billions of tonnes of carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2 ... kMpt3_5CU0 (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24261-world-wont-cool-without-geoengineering-warns-report.html?cmpid=RSS%7CNSNS%7C2012-GLOBAL%7Conline-news#.UkMpt3_5CU0)
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: PopeyesPappy on September 25, 2013, 06:49:09 PM
This may be the first time the IPCC has said this, but the reports they base their analysis on have been piling up for years.
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: SGOS on September 25, 2013, 06:53:02 PM
I suspected as much.  We have added so much carbon dioxide to the atmosphere over the last  100 years that turning it around would be unlikely.  Global warming started happening before anyone ever heard of global warming, but the effects weren't noticeable, let alone even being conceived of.  It is gaining momentum, and in geologic terms, momentum can be a big fucking deal.  It's not like stopping your car in 100 yards.  Things don't happen that fast on a geological scale.  Even if we developed the political will today, I don't think we do anything but lessen it's impact slightly.
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: LikelyToBreak on September 25, 2013, 06:54:40 PM
So, what 1%er do I have to give my money to because of this report?
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: GrinningYMIR on September 25, 2013, 06:56:32 PM
Honestly if the human race were to be wiped out before I turned sixty I wouldn't be surprised
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: PopeyesPappy on September 25, 2013, 06:58:38 PM
Quote from: "GrinningYMIR"Honestly if the human race were to be wiped out before I turned sixty I wouldn't be surprised
If you didn't think that you would be the first generation in history not to.
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: Sal1981 on September 25, 2013, 07:13:09 PM
"hundreds of billions of tonnes of carbon dioxide"

That's a lot of chalk (calcium carbonate) probably something in the order of 100kg of chalk per person.

Who knows, maybe governments are gonna subsidize the production of carbonate deposits? lol
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: Colanth on September 25, 2013, 07:37:47 PM
I can't tell from that report, whether they think we've reached the tipping point yet.  Either way, though, this is scary.

(I'm not worried about the species destroying itself before I turn 60 - 90 maybe.)
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: The Skeletal Atheist on September 25, 2013, 09:22:57 PM
Earth: the next Venus.
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: stromboli on September 25, 2013, 10:56:12 PM
It is way too late and it won't get fixed. There is a mountain of evidence being ignored right now, coal lobbyists are still pushing to build more power plants, and Frankenstorm wasn't enough to convince the pinhead climate deniers. Contemplate a future of dead oceans, burnt and dead forests and species die offs on a massive scale. It will happen.
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on September 25, 2013, 10:59:24 PM
Best hope we figure out how to artificially separate the C from the O2 in mass quantities in the near future.
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: Colanth on September 25, 2013, 11:42:14 PM
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Best hope we figure out how to artificially separate the C from the O2 in mass quantities in the near future.
Convert MASSIVE amounts of farmland to forests.  Which is one of the things that got us to where we are.

Will anything at all ever be done?  Other than snake oil like carbon trading, not a thing.  Human beings are too stupid and too greedy to keep from killing the planet.
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: LikelyToBreak on September 25, 2013, 11:46:11 PM
In short, I agree with Stromboli and Colanth on this.  Glad I don't have any grandchildren.
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: Solitary on September 25, 2013, 11:59:43 PM
Quote from: "GrinningYMIR"Honestly if the human race were to be wiped out before I turned sixty I wouldn't be surprised

"One can never have enough dice, or thermal clips."


Isn't that the truth! I'm getting a sex change and take Liara to another galaxy in deep space and live there with all the Asari. Goddess: "To hell with the human race!" :shock:   8-)  Solitary
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: frosty on September 26, 2013, 06:52:59 AM
Global warming is a huge issue but environmental degradation is another. Sure you can talk about rising temperatures, but you can also talk about forest fires, mass deforestation, harmful toxic chemicals affecting crops, the bees dying out, bodies of water being over polluted, etc etc.
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: josephpalazzo on September 26, 2013, 07:31:03 AM
Quote from: "frosty"Global warming is a huge issue but environmental degradation is another. Sure you can talk about rising temperatures, but you can also talk about forest fires, mass deforestation, harmful toxic chemicals affecting crops, the bees dying out, bodies of water being over polluted, etc etc.


Unfortunately, this is true. It seems that we, humans as a species, are complacent, and we are motivated only when power and greed are involved. Otherwise we don't give a shit until it's too late.
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: stromboli on September 26, 2013, 07:45:32 AM
It is worse than you realize. the Northern hemisphere is home to the Taiga, the largest forest on earth. It nearly circles the globe from Canada to Scandinavia to the Siberian Taiga. Include with that the fact that Siberia is a gigantic peat bog in the summertime and frozen over in winter. Enormous drying raises the spectacle of dead trees, tinder dry, acting like wicks in a fire pit the size of the continental United States. Siberia is a carbon collector. Lose the trees and that dead mass of trees becomes a carbon emitter the size of our entire country.

 There have been massive forest fires in the Siberian Taiga
http://rt.com/news/siberia-wildfires-smoke-airport-322/ (http://rt.com/news/siberia-wildfires-smoke-airport-322/)

22,000 acres ain't chump change, and it will get worse.

And don't forget good ol' ocean Methane.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 76278.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/vast-methane-plumes-seen-in-arctic-ocean-as-sea-ice-retreats-6276278.html)
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: frosty on September 26, 2013, 08:31:54 AM
I googled Taiga Forest to see pics, and whenever I picture a huge natural forest in my mind, that would be it. And of course lust for greed money and power is harming the Earth, but another problem is apathy. People have their many modern distractions, and therefore don't feel inclined to give much of a fuck about these issues. Yes, there are people that are concerned and trying to find solutions but modern civilization runs on what we take for granted and what in turn affects the Earth. People are not going to give up their comfy lifestyles so other generations can live comfy too. Humans seem to be quite shortsighted and take for granted the planet's ability to replenish itself and keep going.

I really don't see this issue getting any better though. I've seen all my life how lots of people refuse to change their personalities. Now apply that to the entire human race, and how our greedy nature makes us think of ourselves and our desires first and foremost. Add profit and other self centered components in there, and basically you run into a solid, very thick brick wall.
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: SGOS on September 26, 2013, 11:46:06 AM
Quote from: "frosty"Global warming is a huge issue but environmental degradation is another. Sure you can talk about rising temperatures, but you can also talk about forest fires, mass deforestation, harmful toxic chemicals affecting crops, the bees dying out, bodies of water being over polluted, etc etc.
The epoch man has evolved in is not representative of the Earth's past climatic conditions, which would have been hostile to trees, as well as any other land dwelling creatures.  Living organisms that first showed up before the Precambrian explosion are partly responsible for the "environmental degradation" that turned a lifeless planet into a temperate oxygen rich habitat that made advanced life possible.  And now, mankind's help is necessary to return the Earth to the inhabitable Hell it once was, and the cycle will be complete.  :-D
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: frosty on September 26, 2013, 02:51:09 PM
You seem to either be joking or you completely missed the point of my post, but if you disagree with the whole "environmental degradation" part then that's really good for you.
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: Colanth on September 26, 2013, 10:28:08 PM
Quote from: "stromboli"It is worse than you realize. the Northern hemisphere is home to the Taiga, the largest forest on earth. It nearly circles the globe from Canada to Scandinavia to the Siberian Taiga. Include with that the fact that Siberia is a gigantic peat bog in the summertime and frozen over in winter. Enormous drying raises the spectacle of dead trees, tinder dry, acting like wicks in a fire pit the size of the continental United States. Siberia is a carbon collector. Lose the trees and that dead mass of trees becomes a carbon emitter the size of our entire country.
It's not only the trees. A peat bog is a gigantic carbon sink.  Let that bog start to rot, due to warming or anything else, and it releases not only CO[sub:tu5u7nd4]2[/sub:tu5u7nd4], but methane (another greenhouse gas) as well.  It's already happening in Alaska.
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: SGOS on September 26, 2013, 11:36:35 PM
Quote from: "frosty"You seem to either be joking or you completely missed the point of my post, but if you disagree with the whole "environmental degradation" part then that's really good for you.
I'm joking.  Although I admit that my humor can be rather dark at times.
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: frosty on September 27, 2013, 12:07:34 AM
Quote from: "SGOS"
Quote from: "frosty"You seem to either be joking or you completely missed the point of my post, but if you disagree with the whole "environmental degradation" part then that's really good for you.
I'm joking.  Although I admit that my humor can be rather dark at times.

Well, I was taking a nap, and I just woke up when I posted my last comment. But this whole issue could be considered dark so in comparison your joke isn't that bad.
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: Aletheia on September 27, 2013, 03:26:30 AM
I was hoping to have a few million more years before having to worry about another catastrophic event, but I guess now is just as good of a time as any. The earth has had it's atmosphere changed completely, frozen solid (long before the Ice Ages, mind you), wiped out 90% of all life only to wipe out 75% of all life a few hundred million years later, and so on and so forth. Life will continue on, but our current biodiversity will suffer and might even have to revert back to single-celled and simple multi-cellular life for a few hundred million years.

I just hope that by the time sentient life evolves again, our fossilized remains won't be so old as to risk being melted into the lower levels of the crust and erased forever.
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: JamesTheUnjust on September 30, 2013, 07:54:32 AM
It's too late to turn back now.

The human race will not be wiped out but it's going to be awful to stay the least. The biggest problem is what will happen ecologically speaking? Usually, in these types of events 5-10% of species get wiped out. Remember though, this is going to take place over 300-1500 years, and won't be over night.
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: Jason78 on September 30, 2013, 08:36:29 AM
QuoteIn other words, even if all the world ran on carbon-free energy and deforestation ceased, the only way of lowering temperatures would be to devise a scheme for sucking hundreds of billions of tonnes of carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere.

Couldn't we just grow a buttload of trees and then bury them?
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: josephpalazzo on September 30, 2013, 08:44:36 AM
It's not going to happen - we would have to give up millions of acres of agricultural land to grow those trees.
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: SGOS on September 30, 2013, 09:08:34 AM
Quote from: "Jason78"
QuoteIn other words, even if all the world ran on carbon-free energy and deforestation ceased, the only way of lowering temperatures would be to devise a scheme for sucking hundreds of billions of tonnes of carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere.

Couldn't we just grow a buttload of trees and then bury them?
It took a billion years to bury enough trees to form the carbon "sink," and man has released millions of years of this carbon sink in a century.  At this point, we have wiped out most of the Earth's old growth timber.  We would have to devote ourselves to regrowing the old growth timber, which will take at least 500 years, before we can even think about burying it.  And then we would have to keep doing that for millions and millions of years.  The timber companies would go out of business, and Ayn Rand would turn over in her grave.  Capitalism (as we know it) would fail. :-D
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: Cocoa Beware on October 01, 2013, 04:49:50 AM
Unfortunately, we may not be able to agree that drastic measures are needed until a few decades down the road when it really starts hitting home that this will devastate the globe.

Humans are just not cut out for dealing with this kind of problem, with so many nations completely absorbed in competition with others. Multinational cooperation is something we seriously suck at.

Hopefully technology can bail us out to some extent.
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: Jason78 on October 01, 2013, 05:03:57 AM
Quote from: "josephpalazzo"It's not going to happen - we would have to give up millions of acres of agricultural land to grow those trees.
There's all that desert that we're not using.  Couldn't we try reclaiming that?
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: Plu on October 01, 2013, 05:07:33 AM
Quote from: "Jason78"
Quote from: "josephpalazzo"It's not going to happen - we would have to give up millions of acres of agricultural land to grow those trees.
There's all that desert that we're not using.  Couldn't we try reclaiming that?

There's a reason we're not using it...
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: Jason78 on October 01, 2013, 05:39:29 AM
Quote from: "Plu"
Quote from: "Jason78"
Quote from: "josephpalazzo"It's not going to happen - we would have to give up millions of acres of agricultural land to grow those trees.
There's all that desert that we're not using.  Couldn't we try reclaiming that?

There's a reason we're not using it...
Too much sand?  We can fix that.
Title: Re: "Global warming is irreversible without massive
Post by: frosty on October 01, 2013, 07:35:01 PM
This idea that the entire planet is ideal for human living is a farce. I would take a guess that changing "the desert"(wherever that is) into a blooming green lush landscape would take years of planning, cost a lot of money, and be hard to maintain once it happens. People are too concerned with other things right now (a myriad of other things) and as a result the planet and it's conditions will continue to get worse. For now, we have to accept it.