How come religious fanatics are always in the way when it comes to the quesiton of legalizing suicide?
In some countries, believe it or not, suicide is illegal. Even in atheist countries, like North Korea, where your family is punished by eternity in labor camp, if you commit suicide.
But I am also talking about simple matters like euthanasia which is illegal in many countries.
It is my opinion, that suicide pills should be available in supermarkets, or at least in drugstores, without need for prescription.
It is not the responsibility of the government to decide for its subjects wether their life is worth living. I am all for government helping people in need, but if
an individual wants to die, it should be his/her sole decision, and the government should not intervene!
QuoteIt is my opinion, that suicide pills should be available in supermarkets, or at least in drugstores, without need for prescription.
No, no, no, no, no.... no and no.
Because that couldn't be abused AT ALL into opening it and making discrete poison to kill someone other than yourself. Or just slipping it into pills that other people use.
Sorry, but I think medicine other than, "This clears up your nose" or "this makes your throat hurt less" should be left to professionals.
QuoteIt is not the responsibility of the government to decide for its subjects wether their life is worth living.
Yeah, it kinda is. When people want to kill themselves they aren't thinking with a healthy mind. The government has every right to tell you that you have to go through a procedure before being granted death by pill. Now, if you have a terminal illness and are in excruciating pain, yeah I think you should be fast-tracked through that process. But if you have a mental illness and want to kill yourself, generally that is not a permanent state of mind but an over-whelming feeling that comes for a short while and then recedes.
I pretty much agree with Shiranu. People should have a right to terminate their own life, but we should protect them from doing it on a whim. At the very least, a mental assesment to make sure the person is in their right mind and has thought about the consequences of what they are going to do.
But after that, it should be up to the individual.
Why would you need a pill when everyone has easy access to knives?
:-k
well, maybe we could try it for one month...just one pill per person asking. Could solve lots of problems.... :Hangman:
Quote from: "Plu"I pretty much agree with Shiranu. People should have a right to terminate their own life, but we should protect them from doing it on a whim. At the very least, a mental assesment to make sure the person is in their right mind and has thought about the consequences of what they are going to do.
But after that, it should be up to the individual.
Absolutely agree.
Quote from: "mediumaevum"It is not the responsibility of the government to decide for its subjects wether their life is worth living. I am all for government helping people in need, but if
an individual wants to die, it should be his/her sole decision, and the government should not intervene!
There is a big difference between intervention and enabling.
And there is something else to be considered here:
For drugs to be legal for sale in this country (and a lot of others) they have to undergo research and development. The manufacturing company has to prove that all drugs taken internally are both safe and effective. So they have to be developed and tested. That is true for the solutions sold to euthanize animals. My job is to develop drugs and vaccines for use by medical professionals. I would not put my hands on a drug like that, and I would daresay that the vast majority of people working in my field would feel the same.
Killing people for profit. Who the fuck would entertain that kind of thing?
Suicide should not be a pill but a process. If someone is having a really bad day, breaking up with a girl friend or something, they could be suicidal in the short term. It would be stupid to give access to suicide pills. Someone who is crippled to the point of uselessness or at the end of their life should be allowed to end it if they choose, but it has to be a rational decision with real causes.
If people want one they should be allowed to have one.
Most people wont want one.
I agree with Shiranu on this. Anyone thinking about suicide should see a professional.
On the other hand, while they don't have suicide pills at the supermarket, every supermarket has products which can be used to commit suicide.
Then there is the old standby of running the car in the garage with the door closed. One of my neighbors drives me nuts by starting his truck and then opening the door to his garage. Sometimes a minute or two later. Sure, it would take like half an hour for it to cause him to pass out, but come on. You know he's breathing higher levels of CO even if it is just a few minutes.
Well, if someone really wants to commit suicide, not having a pill available won't make that much difference. More comfortable maybe, but the end result is the same. Though come to think of it, a black pill like they used in the movie MASH might have some benefits for society.
They already have it. In almost any city in the US and probably the world there is always an underground black market where you can buy almost any drug you want especially heroin which can be injected, swallowed, snorted and smoked.
$100 of good dope will knock off anyone who doesn't already have a $50 a day habit.. it's NOT hard to find.
Quote from: "Mermaid"Killing people for profit. Who the fuck would entertain that kind of thing?
The government. Mercenaries. Cigarette manufacturers. :lol:
I agree with having someone who is in permanent or extreme pain to be given the pill.
Let's say there was a chemical explosion and the victim suffered third degree chemical burns across most of their torso, arms, face and lower legs.
That guy is in indescribable pain, and you don't recover from horrible burns. I believe this man should be offered the pill because that pain will always be there, causing him misery beyond comprehension.
The fucking fuck is with this guy?
Will his next thread be about how father-daughter incest is OK?
Quote from: "the_antithesis"The fucking fuck is with this guy?
Will his next thread be about how father-daughter incest is OK?
I change all of my answers to this.
He is pushing our buttons.
QuoteShould suicide pills be available to everyone?
Are you serious? NO! Isn't it obvious why they shouldn't? Jump in your car, turn it on in the garage, and think about this. Why would that even be necessary? I don't believe everyone that wants to commit suicide is mentally ill, but some can be helped with their problems and should be. When it is a terminal illness to prevent unnecessary suffering I'm all for it though. I believe it is legal in the Netherlands. Solitary
Relevant: http://archive.picturesforsadchildren.com/230/ (http://archive.picturesforsadchildren.com/230/)
Suicide is a subject that has long been of interest to me. Partly due to 40 years as a depresive and partly because in 1969 when I was 11 and she was 17, my sister decided to end her life.
Mental illness is a label that gets used an awful lot. So much so that I think it's meaning has been muddied. What really constitutes mental illness? To me to be healthy requires two attitudes. One is some degree of a sense of wellbeing. I don't mean that you walk around in ahappy daze, I just mean that at least as ooften as not, you are glad to be alive. Second, you have some reasonable hope of a decent future. Not a great future, but at least one that is better than the state you are in when you want to end it.
Another phrase that gets thrown around a lot when this subject comes up is "there is always help". This is a popular myth. Psychiatry has made great inroads over the last century, but it still has a very long way to go.
No, suicide pills should not be sold over the counter. They really shouldn't be that easy to get. Besides, I'm pretty sure most states already have laws on the books against committing suicide. And remember, this is America, where almost any adult can readily buy a gun. Guns are one of the reasons why men are much better at ending their lives than women. Men are much more likely to use a gun and they are effective. I think Sylvia Plath tried to off herself four or five times before she finally succeeded sticking her head in a gas oven. I guess she didn't want to leave a mess.
My sister was not so finicky, she used our father's rifle and made a "proper job of it". Besides at her funeral, the last I saw of her was seeing her long brown hair spilling out of the wheelbarrow my father had put her in. He had covered her with a blanket but the hair was still visible. I'd like to think that, had she lived, she may have gone on to live a reasonably happy life. It's hard to say though, we certainly don't get any guarantees. I can tell you that our father, who was almost 50 when his first child was born, lived with that grief for the rest of his life. He only ever had two children and I promised myself 40 years ago that I would not make that fine old man go through that pain again.
Anyway, that's where I'm coming from. I'm all in favor of suicide, but it does leave a lot of pain in it's wake.
Quote from: "Mermaid"And there is something else to be considered here:
For drugs to be legal for sale in this country (and a lot of others) they have to undergo research and development. The manufacturing company has to prove that all drugs taken internally are both safe and effective. So they have to be developed and tested. That is true for the solutions sold to euthanize animals. My job is to develop drugs and vaccines for use by medical professionals. I would not put my hands on a drug like that, and I would daresay that the vast majority of people working in my field would feel the same.
Killing people for profit. Who the fuck would entertain that kind of thing?
The point many people have made in this thread is that if this is implemented properly, this drug would relieve people's suffering which
is something that medical professionals try to do everyday. And, personally, I find it hypocritical that we treat animals with more humanity than people when it comes to euthanasia. So for-profit animal euthanasia drugs are A-OK, but absolutely abhorrent for people? That reeks of self-righteousness.
Quote from: "NeoLogic26"Quote from: "Mermaid"And there is something else to be considered here:
For drugs to be legal for sale in this country (and a lot of others) they have to undergo research and development. The manufacturing company has to prove that all drugs taken internally are both safe and effective. So they have to be developed and tested. That is true for the solutions sold to euthanize animals. My job is to develop drugs and vaccines for use by medical professionals. I would not put my hands on a drug like that, and I would daresay that the vast majority of people working in my field would feel the same.
Killing people for profit. Who the fuck would entertain that kind of thing?
The point many people have made in this thread is that if this is implemented properly, this drug would relieve people's suffering which is something that medical professionals try to do everyday. And, personally, I find it hypocritical that we treat animals with more humanity than people when it comes to euthanasia. So for-profit animal euthanasia drugs are A-OK, but absolutely abhorrent for people? That reeks of self-righteousness.
I agree that it is sad that we are able to end the lives of our pets painlessly while we must die naturally. I think euthanasia is definitely an option I would want for myself if I were suffering.
Forget about the black market. Rat poison and aspirin come immediately to mind. There are probably many others. Iodine? There are probably many OTC medications available. Any biochemists here want to list the things sold in a supermarket that cause relatively painless and quick death? (I'm not talking about drain cleaner - that's terrifically painful.) Just because it's not labeled "Suicide Pill" doesn't mean that it's not. (I believe one of the "sodium free" table salts is potassium chloride, which can be lethal in pretty small doses.)
Quote from: "Eric1958"Suicide is a subject that has long been of interest to me. Partly due to 40 years as a depresive and partly because in 1969 when I was 11 and she was 17, my sister decided to end her life.
Mental illness is a label that gets used an awful lot. So much so that I think it's meaning has been muddied. What really constitutes mental illness? To me to be healthy requires two attitudes. One is some degree of a sense of wellbeing. I don't mean that you walk around in ahappy daze, I just mean that at least as ooften as not, you are glad to be alive. Second, you have some reasonable hope of a decent future. Not a great future, but at least one that is better than the state you are in when you want to end it.
Another phrase that gets thrown around a lot when this subject comes up is "there is always help". This is a popular myth. Psychiatry has made great inroads over the last century, but it still has a very long way to go.
No, suicide pills should not be sold over the counter. They really shouldn't be that easy to get. Besides, I'm pretty sure most states already have laws on the books against committing suicide. And remember, this is America, where almost any adult can readily buy a gun. Guns are one of the reasons why men are much better at ending their lives than women. Men are much more likely to use a gun and they are effective. I think Sylvia Plath tried to off herself four or five times before she finally succeeded sticking her head in a gas oven. I guess she didn't want to leave a mess.
My sister was not so finicky, she used our father's rifle and made a "proper job of it". Besides at her funeral, the last I saw of her was seeing her long brown hair spilling out of the wheelbarrow my father had put her in. He had covered her with a blanket but the hair was still visible. I'd like to think that, had she lived, she may have gone on to live a reasonably happy life. It's hard to say though, we certainly don't get any guarantees. I can tell you that our father, who was almost 50 when his first child was born, lived with that grief for the rest of his life. He only ever had two children and I promised myself 40 years ago that I would not make that fine old man go through that pain again.
Anyway, that's where I'm coming from. I'm all in favor of suicide, but it does leave a lot of pain in it's wake.
Good post! Sorry to hear about your sister. That's the problem with suicide and death the wake of pain it leaves. It is also a good reason to let a dying person know it's OK for them to die so they don't feel guilty. When I was a lot younger I understood how someone can commit suicide because I knew they were in more pain psychologically than even the fear and dread of death or life that was unbearable. Some times we fear the thing we want most. Solitary
Quote from: "Colanth"Forget about the black market. Rat poison and aspirin come immediately to mind. There are probably many others. Iodine? There are probably many OTC medications available. Any biochemists here want to list the things sold in a supermarket that cause relatively painless and quick death? (I'm not talking about drain cleaner - that's terrifically painful.) Just because it's not labeled "Suicide Pill" doesn't mean that it's not. (I believe one of the "sodium free" table salts is potassium chloride, which can be lethal in pretty small doses.)
You are correct, it will kill you, as will Potassium Gluconite with an overdose. They use potassium in surgery to stop the heart. Another one is drinking a gallon (I believe.) of water straight because it messes up your electrolytes. Still best way is what they use to euthanize animals or carbon monoxide gas. Also breathing helium straight from the tank without putting it in a balloon first. :shock: Drowning is quick and painless too. When you take a deep breath underwater you go unconscious immediately. I think skydiving would be a fun way to do it---roll on your back and relax until Para Nirvana. :shock: I know TMI. But the point is you don't need pills to do it, just quit eating and drinking and sing like Karen Carpenter did. :shock: :cry: Solitary
No!
Why not?
NO!
It's always cute to see small minds use bigger text in an attempt to conceal their lack of arguments :rolleyes:
Quote from: "Plu"It's always cute to see small minds use bigger text in an attempt to conceal their lack of arguments :rolleyes:
Funny PLU! There are so many arguements that it just isn't worth going into. But thanks for being an asshole. That just proves the lack of thought you put into your post.
As to the OP question:
No
1) abuse
2) illegal use
3) suicide on a whimp, I don't think so
4) There are many alternatives to a suicide pill. Lets not add yet another way for people to make a mistake.
That is not to say that I disagree with assisted suicide. I do agree with a very regulated well thought out process for assisted suicide.
So just because I used a larger font and bolded my answer in no way means that I have a small mind or that I have no agruements concealed or otherwise.
You fucking idiot!!!!!!
Quote from: "mykcob4"Quote from: "Plu"It's always cute to see small minds use bigger text in an attempt to conceal their lack of arguments :rolleyes:
Funny PLU! There are so many arguements that it just isn't worth going into. But thanks for being an asshole. That just proves the lack of thought you put into your post.
As to the OP question:
No
1) abuse
2) illegal use
3) suicide on a whimp, I don't think so
4) There are many alternatives to a suicide pill. Lets not add yet another way for people to make a mistake.
That is not to say that I disagree with assisted suicide. I do agree with a very regulated well thought out process for assisted suicide.
So just because I used a larger font and bolded my answer in no way means that I have a small mind or that I have no agruements concealed or otherwise.
You fucking idiot!!!!!!
The point is all your arguments are strawmen because they have already been addressed and discarded. The way a suicide pill "program", for lack of a better word, would be implemented would specifically work to prevent abuse, illegal use and suicide on a whim by having the screening process weed out those people who just want an easy way to punch their own (or someone else's) ticket. You'll notice somebody posted early in the thread that they thought it should be OTC and that was immediately shot down for obvious reasons. There is some thought going into this.
As to your last point, I think most proponents of legal assisted/unassisted suicide would agree that lessening pain and suffering is a good thing so although there may be many alternative ways to kill yourself, I think you'll agree that many of them are painful and cause even more suffering for those who have to find the body in whatever state it's in. Not to say that families wouldn't suffer from a loved one committing a legal assisted suicide, but they certainly wouldn't be surprised by the outcome.
Pretty much the above. You basically agree with everyone here exept you're being a dick about it, mycob.
Quote from: "mykcob4"Quote from: "Plu"It's always cute to see small minds use bigger text in an attempt to conceal their lack of arguments :rolleyes:
Funny PLU! There are so many arguements that it just isn't worth going into. But thanks for being an asshole. That just proves the lack of thought you put into your post.
You didn't put forth ANY arguments AT ALL!
You are no better than those religious fundamentalists that, when they are confronted with reality, they just assess their position by a simple statement, no argumentation needed for their cause.
QuoteAs to the OP question:
No
1) abuse
2) illegal use
Cars, kitchen knives, forks and even spoons can easily be abused to kill other people.
So what do you suggest we do? Prohibit cars, knives, forks and spoons?
Quote3) suicide on a whimp, I don't think so
Again, you have no argumentation to back up your "I don't think so"-statement!
Quote4) There are many alternatives to a suicide pill. Lets not add yet another way for people to make a mistake.
There are indeed alternatives. Just like there are alternatives to cars: You could ride on a horse or have a horse-driven cart.
Or you could walk. But cars are way better for transportation, they are faster and more reliable. It's just so with suicide pills.
QuoteThat is not to say that I disagree with assisted suicide. I do agree with a very regulated well thought out process for assisted suicide.
Why?
Why should the government/state regulate a human being's right to its own death?
Its the individual's body, not the body of the government!
I would just like to point out a couple of things:
- As far as poisoning someone's food or drink, suicide pills are peanuts compared to the chemicals most folks keep under their sink.
- While you could swap out someone's medicine with suicide pills, the same could be said of sleep aids.
My reasoning for keeping suicide pills reserved for the terminally ill is that it would be too easy for a mentally unstable, suicidal individual to get hold of them. The suicide rate is quite high as it is; we don't need to help it along.
QuoteWhy should the government/state regulate a human being's right to its own death?
Because people are whimsical and not always thinking straight, and need a bit of protection against themselves.
Quote from: "Plu"QuoteWhy should the government/state regulate a human being's right to its own death?
Because people are whimsical and not always thinking straight, and need a bit of protection against themselves.
But how is the government in any way in a better position to say IT is thinking straight on behalf of the suicidal individual in question?
For one, we must admit that nobody knows anyone better than the individual in question, because the individual is the one living its life.
That's bull. It's quite possible to objectively detect that people are emotionally disturbed, mentally damaged, or otherwise not thinking straight.
Try drinking a bottle of vodka some day and then come back and tell us that the invididual always most knows what's best for him.
Quote from: "Plu"Pretty much the above. You basically agree with everyone here exept you're being a dick about it, mycob.
Oh Iam being a dick.
One poster responded with no less than 6 "Nos" and nothing esle, yet you said nothing. You decided that you would personally attack me and now you're calling ME a dick.
Fuck you Plu!
I don't agree that my reasons are strawman arguments at all. They haven't been "shot down" only argued against.
I feel assisted suicide is valid. Having a suicide pill available to anyone with professionals to prevent against abuse, murder, mistakes is irresponsible.
I'll quit cussing at you as soon as you end the personal attacks.
Look in the mirror Plu.
NO isn't an attack or being a dick, it's a valid response.
What you posted to and about me IS a personal unwarranted attack.
Quote from: "mediumaevum"Quote from: "Plu"QuoteWhy should the government/state regulate a human being's right to its own death?
Because people are whimsical and not always thinking straight, and need a bit of protection against themselves.
But how is the government in any way in a better position to say IT is thinking straight on behalf of the suicidal individual in question?
For one, we must admit that nobody knows anyone better than the individual in question, because the individual is the one living its life.
1) The government isn't interested in telling people that they can't kill themselves or shouldn't be.
2) All government regulation means is having qualified professional people make sure that there isn't abuse, mistakes, etc... involved in the process.
There is an unwarranted disproportional fear of the government that makes no sense whatsoever. Probably due to conservative propaganda, ignorance, lack of education, religiousity, and plain old stupidity.
Quote from: "mykcob4"I don't agree that my reasons are strawman arguments at all. They haven't been "shot down" only argued against.
Hypothetically, if those reasons could be addressed to your satisfaction, would you support the premise that a suicide pill should be available?
QuoteI feel assisted suicide is valid. Having a suicide pill available to anyone with professionals to prevent against abuse, murder, mistakes is irresponsible.
How are these different in your mind? What if the pill had to be taken at an approved site so that it couldn't be obtained and taken somewhere else to be put to a use not intended?
Quote from: "NeoLogic26"Quote from: "mykcob4"I don't agree that my reasons are strawman arguments at all. They haven't been "shot down" only argued against.
Hypothetically, if those reasons could be addressed to your satisfaction, would you support the premise that a suicide pill should be available?
QuoteI feel assisted suicide is valid. Having a suicide pill available to anyone with professionals to prevent against abuse, murder, mistakes is irresponsible.
How are these different in your mind? What if the pill had to be taken at an approved site so that it couldn't be obtained and taken somewhere else to be put to a use not intended?
Sure if the reasons could be addressed and not to MY specific satisfaction. I am nobody. The ones you'd have to satify is society at large, but even more importantly the Constitution.
The thing is that the Constitution allows any and all rights that are not legislated against by a Constitutional law. But it also marks out a general and sometimes specific responsiblity of the government. Therefore you'd have to satisfy LAW thats sole aim is to protect the individual rights and also the individual.
My original response of NO was because the discussion of this issue is so conviluted that I could not devote enough time to actually respond and the research needed is extinsive.
We couldn't map out every scenerio, variable, situation, that it would take to actually debate the issue. Even the side that one would take would be up in the air because it couldn't be well defined.
My "NO" was a declaration of caution more than anything else.
I uphold that all and every have a right to do what they want and or need without subjection to scrutiny unless otherwise forbidden by legal constitutional law. With the exception that the decission to do such things is responsible to the society in general and is not guided by an underage, unbalanced, or impared mind.
So suicide in any form is a choice by an individual. Assisted suicide is an area that needs to be looked at for many many reasons.
I wanted a suicide pill because I felt that was faster, easier and more reliable.
But since political debates can take a very long time and often results in nothing, and that
this topic alone proves that it will end up in nothing at all, I am forced to look for other methods.
Whilst I am afraid of death, I am even more afraid of life.
Quote from: "mediumaevum"I wanted a suicide pill because I felt that was faster, easier and more reliable.
But since political debates can take a very long time and often results in nothing, and that
this topic alone proves that it will end up in nothing at all, I am forced to look for other methods.
Whilst I am afraid of death, I am even more afraid of life.
I suspected as much. As a person of some age with vast experiences in depression among other things, I would advise you that suicide is too conclusive an answer.
You may have a sense of loss or be suffering from chronic pain or have what you believe to be a ligitimate reason to commit suicide. You may also just have a fascination with death. Whatever the reason, you need a complete stranger that is qualified to see what is the cause and reasoning behind your desire to commit suicide.
You need to find someone that isn't dedicated in talking you in or out of your decission, but rather can access clearly your thoughts.
You need help. I thought intially that when you started this thread it was a cry for help. It nagged in the back of my mind. I was lazy and answered your OP with an emphatic NO! For that I was insulted. Of course I don't care about insults to or about me, that isn't the issue. I am kicking myself for not recognizing what you were really asking for in your OP.
You obviously were trying to connect, grasping for insight on what was really on your mind.
Is life tough? Sure, but death is final!
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"I would just like to point out a couple of things:
- As far as poisoning someone's food or drink, suicide pills are peanuts compared to the chemicals most folks keep under their sink.
- While you could swap out someone's medicine with suicide pills, the same could be said of sleep aids.
My reasoning for keeping suicide pills reserved for the terminally ill is that it would be too easy for a mentally unstable, suicidal individual to get hold of them. The suicide rate is quite high as it is; we don't need to help it along.
Yes, but a suicide pill is a reasonably guaranteed lethal dosage of something in a single pill that could be powdered and has at least a chance of going undetected. Drinking lots of bleach would also be potentially fatal, but I like to think that if I was drinking a pint glass of water that had been replaced by bleach I'd notice. It would also be difficult to substitute medication to make someone kill themselves unless they took vast amounts of medication in a day, what other pill would you substitute in that would be lethal in a single dose? Granted, it isn't impossible, but it requires a fairly concerted effort and consideration, whereas buying a guaranteed lethal dose in pill-form that is manufactured properly in a factory and looks exactly like other pills produced by pharmaceutical companies would make it very easy.
Of course, people can concoct their own poisonous substances, but likewise people can manufacture their own very effective firearms with a decent home workshop. My point is that just because it is possible to circumvent them, it does not mean that all barriers in the way of doing something should be removed. This is irrespective of my stance on the assisted suicide debate (I think people should have the right to have a doctor end their lives if they are of sound mind).
Quote from: "SilentFutility"Yes, but a suicide pill is a reasonably guaranteed lethal dosage of something in a single pill that could be powdered and has at least a chance of going undetected.
I'd hope that if suicide pills were to become legal they'd have to be (by law) so bitter that no one would take one by mistake. And that they'd have some unique chemical tracer, so a postmortem exam (the coroner) would have no trouble detecting that the person died by suicide pill.
mediumaevum wrote in part:
QuoteWhilst I am afraid of death, I am even more afraid of life.
Okay, I don't have a quick answer for alleviating fear. Wish I did, I could use one. My somewhat short answer. Quit watching the News. Most of it doesn't directly affect you anyway, and that which does is probably over stated as to its' importance. People are assholes, so don't worry about what they think of you. Single people wish they were married, married people wish they were single, so not having your "soul-mate" at your side is no big deal.
Sometimes when you think the worse thing that can happen does, it turns out to not be nearly as bad as you thought it would be. Like last night, I had a black widow drop down on my neck. Once she realized I was an animal, she went back up her web and hid in the vent she came out of. I thought it would be terrible if a black widow dropped down on me from that damn vent, then it happened. And besides creeping me out, no harm was really done. Lost a job, then I got one paying 3.75 more an hour, with more overtime. Enjoyed it more too. Had a fiancee dump me once, then met someone prettier, nicer, and didn't have the baggage of a brat. Anyway, things might not be as bad as you think they are.
Do find someone to talk to, even if it is just someone as stupid as me on the other side of a hotline. You got nothing to lose in making the call before doing something which you can't take back. Even if I can't explain how to get rid or your fears, some other knucklehead just might. Give them and yourself the chance.
1. Require every person to go through a mental evaluation before getting the suicide pill; terminally ill people can skip this part.
2. Require the person to be observed taking it so they don't just murder someone.
3. If they plan on having a funeral require them to have someway to pay for it rather than forcing that cost on the already grieving family. If the pill is made right then organ donation may be an acceptable way to pay. Assets are another way to pay. Otherwise they have to get the family's written permission to defer the cost of a funeral to the family.
Only way I could support this idea.
Quote2. Require the person to be observed taking it so they don't just murder someone.
Contender for "worst job in the world". :-s
QuoteWhilst I am afraid of death, I am even more afraid of life.
What is it about life that scares you so?
Quote from: "Colanth"Quote from: "SilentFutility"Yes, but a suicide pill is a reasonably guaranteed lethal dosage of something in a single pill that could be powdered and has at least a chance of going undetected.
I'd hope that if suicide pills were to become legal they'd have to be (by law) so bitter that no one would take one by mistake. And that they'd have some unique chemical tracer, so a postmortem exam (the coroner) would have no trouble detecting that the person died by suicide pill.
All valid controls, I was more talking about selling them in supermarkets ie. having them freely available like someone suggested.
Quote from: "Plu"Quote2. Require the person to be observed taking it so they don't just murder someone.
Contender for "worst job in the world". :-s
Well if you wanna provide people with death pills there
might be a few downsides.
Quote from: "Nonsensei"If people want one they should be allowed to have one.
Most people wont want one.
That cannot be known until everyone has access to one. You'd be surprised what an otherwise stable and rational human will do with a suicide pill actually in hand.
Quote from: "Tabula Rasa"Quote from: "Nonsensei"If people want one they should be allowed to have one.
Most people wont want one.
That cannot be known until everyone has access to one. You'd be surprised what an otherwise stable and rational human will do with a suicide pill actually in hand.
I'm guessing he/she would not take it unless terminally ill. If he/she took it while healthy I wouldn't consider him/her stable or reasonable.
Two things I'd like to bring up.
One, there are several billion people on this planet of ours and if several million of us check out early, it's not going to have much effect on the species. Yes, it brings pain on our loved ones, but we will all die at some point.
Two, as an atheist part of my belief is that there is nothing inherently sacred about life. I grow tired of hearing so many people talk about life as though it was the greatest thing ever and surely we all really want to keep it as long as possible and if we don't it must be because we are "sick" and need fixing.
Quote from: "The Skeletal Atheist"1. Require every person to go through a mental evaluation before getting the suicide pill; terminally ill people can skip this part.
2. Require the person to be observed taking it so they don't just murder someone.
3. If they plan on having a funeral require them to have someway to pay for it rather than forcing that cost on the already grieving family. If the pill is made right then organ donation may be an acceptable way to pay. Assets are another way to pay. Otherwise they have to get the family's written permission to defer the cost of a funeral to the family.
Only way I could support this idea.
Pretty much narrows down the main reasons why most of us cares if a stranger offs themselves - remove the chance they could murder with this tool and settling the financial burden of losing that person.
Not to sound callous, but most of us probably couldn't care less if Joe Blow committed suicide over in Michigan. We certainly don't cry much when we read it in the news. For instance, three weeks ago a man jumped out in front of a moving car in front of the place where I work. There wasn't a moment of silence for the guy - no heartrending notice of his absence from this world. Rather, people were puzzled as to why, but mainly they were curious on who was going to take up the tab. Who fixes the car? Who cleans up the wreck? Who pays for his funeral?
Legalizing suicide is not a problem so long all the loose ends are tied up, figuratively speaking. Having large numbers of people readily kill themselves and then leave a financial vacuum for others is probably the main reason countries do not support the notion. There isn't much profit in someone taking their own life.
Suicide insurance would probably be the main way in which to go (to cover the costs), since suicide isn't normally planned well in advance. Very rarely would anyone save up for it. Usually it's impulsive or to escape from some emotional/financial burden. Once again, I do not see where a profit could be made here.
Yes, a person should have the right to end their life - I mean, it is their life. However, leaving others to foot the bill isn't exactly good for the economy. Make suicide profitable or at least have a benign effect on others financially, then you'll have a legalized version of suicide.
Quote from: "The Skeletal Atheist"1. Require every person to go through a mental evaluation before getting the suicide pill; terminally ill people can skip this part.
2. Require the person to be observed taking it so they don't just murder someone.
3. If they plan on having a funeral require them to have someway to pay for it rather than forcing that cost on the already grieving family. If the pill is made right then organ donation may be an acceptable way to pay. Assets are another way to pay. Otherwise they have to get the family's written permission to defer the cost of a funeral to the family.
Only way I could support this idea.
I concur. The only change I would make is to expand #3 beyond funeral costs. It should be required that arrangements be made to settle any and all debts.
Quote from: "mediumaevum"It is my opinion, that suicide pills should be available in supermarkets, or at least in drugstores, without need for prescription.
They already are available in supermarkets and drugstores without the need for a prescription. Readily available in fact. But they aren't labelled as suicide pills. Anyone who wants to off themselves bad enough can do a little research and figure out what to take to get the job done.
Quote from: "Johan"Quote from: "The Skeletal Atheist"1. Require every person to go through a mental evaluation before getting the suicide pill; terminally ill people can skip this part.
2. Require the person to be observed taking it so they don't just murder someone.
3. If they plan on having a funeral require them to have someway to pay for it rather than forcing that cost on the already grieving family. If the pill is made right then organ donation may be an acceptable way to pay. Assets are another way to pay. Otherwise they have to get the family's written permission to defer the cost of a funeral to the family.
Only way I could support this idea.
I concur. The only change I would make is to expand #3 beyond funeral costs. It should be required that arrangements be made to settle any and all debts.
Yeah, that would be a good consideration as well. I don't think an inability to pay debts or funerals should be a reason to deny the pill automatically, mind you, but financial obligations should factor heavily into the overall decision on whether or not to give someone such a pill. We don't wanna let someone just kill themselves because they have no way to pay debts, rather we should refer them to charities or government services that would be able to help them. If they wanna off themselves after their financial issues are taken care of then so be it, give them the pill.
Quote from: "Aletheia"Pretty much narrows down the main reasons why most of us cares if a stranger offs themselves - remove the chance they could murder with this tool and settling the financial burden of losing that person.
Not to sound callous, but most of us probably couldn't care less if Joe Blow committed suicide over in Michigan. We certainly don't cry much when we read it in the news. For instance, three weeks ago a man jumped out in front of a moving car in front of the place where I work. There wasn't a moment of silence for the guy - no heartrending notice of his absence from this world. Rather, people were puzzled as to why, but mainly they were curious on who was going to take up the tab. Who fixes the car? Who cleans up the wreck? Who pays for his funeral?
Legalizing suicide is not a problem so long all the loose ends are tied up, figuratively speaking. Having large numbers of people readily kill themselves and then leave a financial vacuum for others is probably the main reason countries do not support the notion. There isn't much profit in someone taking their own life.
Suicide insurance would probably be the main way in which to go (to cover the costs), since suicide isn't normally planned well in advance. Very rarely would anyone save up for it. Usually it's impulsive or to escape from some emotional/financial burden. Once again, I do not see where a profit could be made here.
Yes, a person should have the right to end their life - I mean, it is their life. However, leaving others to foot the bill isn't exactly good for the economy. Make suicide profitable or at least have a benign effect on others financially, then you'll have a legalized version of suicide.
Yeah. Not to sound cold or callous, but I can't bring myself to care if John Doe decides to kill himself. I've had people close to me kill themselves, and I've felt that pain, but I always understood it as their decision. The only real thing I've ever wanted for any of the people I've known who have killed themselves is mental help, and if that failed I would've wanted them to receive some sort of way to die painlessly and with dignity. I've always been a supporter of the right to die; it's a highly personal decision. While every effort should be made to relieve whatever makes the person want to die, I don't think we should force anyone to live.
As soon as I need help to feed myself long term, wipe my own ass, or I start to lose my sanity I want out. I don't know about suicide pills, but from recent events in my 'hood, it looks like a dodgy boiler could do the trick quickly and painlessly.... :-k
Quote from: "Youssuf Ramadan"As soon as I need help to feed myself long term, wipe my own ass, or I start to lose my sanity I want out. I don't know about suicide pills, but from recent events in my 'hood, it looks like a dodgy boiler could do the trick quickly and painlessly.... :-k
That's the thing though, in the UK you don't legally have that option, and if someone helps you or even helps you to travel to a country where you do have that option for that purpose they risk prosecution.
In most countries getting to the stage where assisted suicide is even a legal option regardless of method would be very controversial, let alone prescription suicide pills available at pharmacies or GPs.
Quote from: "SilentFutility"Quote from: "Youssuf Ramadan"As soon as I need help to feed myself long term, wipe my own ass, or I start to lose my sanity I want out. I don't know about suicide pills, but from recent events in my 'hood, it looks like a dodgy boiler could do the trick quickly and painlessly.... :-k
That's the thing though, in the UK you don't legally have that option, and if someone helps you or even helps you to travel to a country where you do have that option for that purpose they risk prosecution.
In most countries getting to the stage where assisted suicide is even a legal option regardless of method would be very controversial, let alone prescription suicide pills available at pharmacies or GPs.
Yes indeed.
Maybe I should invade a country with oil that is coveted by the US. I'd be guaranteed a quick death then. :-D
Quote from: "Youssuf Ramadan"Quote from: "SilentFutility"Quote from: "Youssuf Ramadan"As soon as I need help to feed myself long term, wipe my own ass, or I start to lose my sanity I want out. I don't know about suicide pills, but from recent events in my 'hood, it looks like a dodgy boiler could do the trick quickly and painlessly.... :-k
That's the thing though, in the UK you don't legally have that option, and if someone helps you or even helps you to travel to a country where you do have that option for that purpose they risk prosecution.
In most countries getting to the stage where assisted suicide is even a legal option regardless of method would be very controversial, let alone prescription suicide pills available at pharmacies or GPs.
Yes indeed.
Maybe I should invade a country with oil that is coveted by the US. I'd be guaranteed a quick death then. :-D
Good luck doing that when you're incapable of wiping your own arse man!
Quote from: "SilentFutility"Good luck doing that when you're incapable of wiping your own arse man!
HAHAHAHA!!! +1 :rollin: