Just wanted to introduce myself! My name is Stephanie, I'm 22 years old, and recently married (totally in love!). I love the outdoors; hiking, biking, and rock climbing. Also, I enjoy crafts and photography as occasional hobbies and would really like to learn how to make quilts. I go to school online (full time) at Liberty University, but don't hold me to their beliefs. I am indeed a Christian, but I don't affiliate myself with one specific denomination. I'm not here to "convince you that you're stupid" like some might believe, because I know quite the contrary! I used to be an atheist and was on a few atheist forum communities myself and I remember how intelligent the people on those boards were. So, I'm back to learn how to defend my beliefs a little better and address some really good questions that people have about Christianity. So ask away!
Welcome to the forum
Welcome to the dark side, Stephanie! :-D
Thanks for the welcome guys! Can't wait to get to know yall a little better! What are yall's names?
Quote from: "DunkleSeele"Welcome to the dark side, Stephanie! :-D
haha yall have cookies, right?!
Help! They beat me!
:-D Welcome aboard AlwaysLearning! Be prepared to burn from the flaming luls here. Solitary
:popcorn:
The perky is strong in this one.
Quote from: "AlwaysLearning"Just wanted to introduce myself! My name is Stephanie, I'm 22 years old, and recently married (totally in love!). I love the outdoors; hiking, biking, and rock climbing. Also, I enjoy crafts and photography as occasional hobbies and would really like to learn how to make quilts. I go to school online (full time) at Liberty University, but don't hold me to their beliefs. I am indeed a Christian, but I don't affiliate myself with one specific denomination. I'm not here to "convince you that you're stupid" like some might believe, because I know quite the contrary! I used to be an atheist and was on a few atheist forum communities myself and I remember how intelligent the people on those boards were. So, I'm back to learn how to defend my beliefs a little better and address some really good questions that people have about Christianity. So ask away!
Liberty University is not a real school. It's a brainwash center for sheep that grants a fake degree. Liberty is a disgrace. It doesn't teach good science and replaces it with pseudo- science that fits its political believes.
You could have never been an atheist because there is no such thing as an atheist converting to christian. The fact is that you were a person that didn't know what to believe in and you allowed someone to brainwash you. An atheist thinks for themselves and isn't taken in by things that have no bearing in fact.
I put it to you that you cannot prove a god, a miracle or anything that can be associated by the christian tenets.
Heres a test about your socalled university. Do they teach that this nation was based on judeo-christian principles or that this is and always has been a secular nation? If they don't endorse the latter then their accreditation is invalid.
Pseudo-science, revissionist history, is all that is taught at the jerry falwell school of brainwashing known as liberty university. Just look at the name of the city where it is founded. It's Lynchburg Tennessee. It's called Lynchburg because they practiced lynching blacks. So racial prejudice is a hallmark of your socalled school. They beleive that you can "pray the gay away', as if gays have a choice of who and how they are.
So newbie I welcome you to have HONEST discussions, but I certainly don't believe that will ever happen as your core belief is based on a lie and a myth. All christians are hypocrites, so it will take a great deal for you to prove otherwise. I have a slogan for all christains, and conservatives, especially those associated with liberty university: "Do us all a favor and kill yourself, but be considerate and don't leave a mess."
This is a SECULAR nation. Religion is a myth and a lie. There is no god and never has been.
So go find Elvis, bigfoot, Nessy, but don't come here and pretend that you are the first and what would be the only christian that first converted from atheism (never happened), that you are pusuing a REAL degree from a REAL university, that you an intellect worthy of consideration.
Do us all a favor......!
Married. That won't stop aitm.
Welcome :)
Just got that off your chest right from the get go there, mykcob. Truth is he's right. Liberty University doesn't appear on any accredited list of schools anywhere, and if you were an atheist you were really not paying attention. You don't go to a school like Liberty unless you are so indoctrinated in the religion that you don't even consider outside information, which means you were never an atheist.
Quote from: "stromboli"You don't go to a school like Liberty unless you are so indoctrinated in the religion that you don't even consider outside information, which means you were never an atheist.
Zing!
Auch. That's a pretty tough start. Welcome aboard anyway :)
Quote from: "AlwaysLearning"Just wanted to introduce myself! My name is Stephanie, I'm 22 years old, and recently married (totally in love!). I love the outdoors; hiking, biking, and rock climbing. Also, I enjoy crafts and photography as occasional hobbies and would really like to learn how to make quilts. I go to school online (full time) at Liberty University, but don't hold me to their beliefs. I am indeed a Christian, but I don't affiliate myself with one specific denomination. I'm not here to "convince you that you're stupid" like some might believe, because I know quite the contrary! I have never been atheist and was on a few atheist forum communities myself and I remember how intelligent the people on those boards were. So, I'm back to learn how to defend my beliefs a little better and address some really good questions that people have about Christianity. So ask away!
Fixed that for you.
Well this started with a Big Bang didn't? This reminds me of when WC Fields was lying on his death bed with a bible. He was asked: "I thought you were an atheist?" He replied: "I am, but I'm trying to find away out of this." Even though the fear of death is not rational, the finality of it still gets to you when your dying. 8-[ Solitary
QuoteSo ask away!
OK! Do you believe all the gods in the past were real? Solitary
Quote from: "stromboli"Just got that off your chest right from the get go there, mykcob. Truth is he's right. Liberty University doesn't appear on any accredited list of schools anywhere, and if you were an atheist you were really not paying attention. You don't go to a school like Liberty unless you are so indoctrinated in the religion that you don't even consider outside information, which means you were never an atheist.
I know, I WAS a bit nasty, but it kills me when someone claims that they where a ligitimate atheist and convert to christianity. It's like someone that graduated from liberty university claims they have a REAL degree.
It can actually happen, you know. Atheist just means "doesn't believe in gods". Just because some atheist add extra attributes to the word doesn't mean that has anymore validity over when theists do it.
It's quite possible for people who weren't raised religiously to become it later in life. Some people have a natural draw towards simple explanations and/or strict rules to live by. Other people are "convinced" by the arguments of a religious person they fall in love with.
The only people who tend to become immune to conversion are those who either have thought about the position a lot and arrived at it through reason. But that's only a small part of the general group of atheists, once you start factoring in the regions of the world where people simply aren't raised religiously and are atheists only because it's the default position.
so.........................whats yer favorite candy bar?
[spoil:10exe6y2](//http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm127/aitm356/DSC02332.jpg)[/spoil:10exe6y2]
Quote from: "aitm"so.........................whats yer favorite candy bar?
[spoil:3nhpnbib][ Image (//http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm127/aitm356/DSC02332.jpg) ][/spoil:3nhpnbib]
Newly married, so she probably likes something with nuts. :-D
Quote from: "Plu"It can actually happen, you know. Atheist just means "doesn't believe in gods". Just because some atheist add extra attributes to the word doesn't mean that has anymore validity over when theists do it.
It's quite possible for people who weren't raised religiously to become it later in life. Some people have a natural draw towards simple explanations and/or strict rules to live by. Other people are "convinced" by the arguments of a religious person they fall in love with.
The only people who tend to become immune to conversion are those who either have thought about the position a lot and arrived at it through reason. But that's only a small part of the general group of atheists, once you start factoring in the regions of the world where people simply aren't raised religiously and are atheists only because it's the default position.
EXACTLY my point. You say that I added something to the definition of atheist and technically you're correct, BUT how can you actually be an atheist unless you have actually applied thought and logic to the issue. Atheism isn't so pedestrian, there is actually a requirement. You have to consciencially understand that people believe in myths and nonsense and decide that you won't be fooled by any of their bullshit.
Quote from: "Plu"Auch. That's a pretty tough start. Welcome aboard anyway :)
Sure is! But that's alright; I didn't think it'd be easy anyways.
As for mykcob4 and Solitary, I will answer your questions/comments in the morning! I have some assignments to finish at my fake school :wink: and btw, it's actually located in Virginia and it IS accredited (look up the SACS).
QuoteBUT how can you actually be an atheist unless you have actually applied thought and logic to the issue.
By irrationally not believing in gods? Doesn't sound so hard to me. People hold irrational beliefs all the time.
QuoteBut that's alright; I didn't think it'd be easy anyways.
Depending on your reasons for joining, it won't be, either. If you really want to "learn to defend your faith" it's only going to get worse :) Especially if you want to defend your faith through reason, which is really hard to combine with trying to spread it, since all the rational arguments for having faith boil down to "it helps me, personally, to cope with shit", which is kinda useless to other people.
Quote from: "AlwaysLearning"Quote from: "Plu"Auch. That's a pretty tough start. Welcome aboard anyway :)
Sure is! But that's alright; I didn't think it'd be easy anyways.
As for mykcob4 and Solitary, I will answer your questions/comments in the morning! I have some assignments to finish at my fake school :wink: and btw, it's actually located in Virginia and it IS accredited (look up the SACS).
Okay not Tenn. but VA. It's still a bullshit school that brainwashes people and it's still in LYNCHBURG!!!!!
As far as accredidation, can't find it on any registry of accredited universities, which means that any degree from there isn't worth the paper that is printed on.
And why should we be "easy" on you anyway? Christians have persecuted more people than all the other persecuters combined.
Like I said earlier....*aitm*-c'mon man, easy up until at least the second salvo.
Quote from: "AlwaysLearning"Just wanted to introduce myself! My name is Stephanie, I'm 22 years old, and recently married (totally in love!). I love the outdoors; hiking, biking, and rock climbing. Also, I enjoy crafts and photography as occasional hobbies and would really like to learn how to make quilts. I go to school online (full time) at Liberty University, but don't hold me to their beliefs. I am indeed a Christian, but I don't affiliate myself with one specific denomination. I'm not here to "convince you that you're stupid" like some might believe, because I know quite the contrary! I used to be an atheist and was on a few atheist forum communities myself and I remember how intelligent the people on those boards were. So, I'm back to learn how to defend my beliefs a little better and address some really good questions that people have about Christianity. So ask away!
Well Stephanie, I used to live in that city, for almost a decade. I also worked with many of the students who went there when delivering pizzas. I can and do get along with believers and my biggest supporter, my mom is still Catholic. I love her more than anyone in the world.
Ok, now that the Hallmark moment is out of the way. Please don't think that everyone here is a library type where we say "thats nice, good for you".
No, you have stepped into the enemy camp, much like I had to deal with Liberty Students. So to be warned, this is not about you, this is about what you claim. Your claims will get beaten up and blasphemed and ridiculed. If you take that personally you won't have a pleasant stay here. But if you can take the beating, and your claims will get beaten up, at a minimum, you get to learn a perspective you were not aware of before.
Oh and please don't ask me what I thought of Falwell or his family.
Hi, Stephanie,
Welcome! I hope you enjoy engaging with people who have different ideas from you.
I really don't have any questions about Christianity. When I was in college (a long, LONG time ago), I was a born-again, Bible-believing Christian saving souls for Christ. Then I read the Bible for myself and slowly realized that it was all a bunch of hooey. One day I acknowledged that I didn't believe any of it. It took years to go from believer to realist, but I made the journey.
Among the things that changed my mind were the errors and contradictions in the Bible; the fact that the promises made in the Bible didn't come true; the fact that there are so many religions with completely different conceptions of gods, and learning that science has answered most of the questions that gods were made up to explain.
Do you have any questions about atheists?
Frank
Quote from: "stromboli"Quote from: "aitm"so.........................whats yer favorite candy bar?
[spoil:2ion7gn1][ Image (//http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm127/aitm356/DSC02332.jpg) ][/spoil:2ion7gn1]
Newly married, so she probably likes something with nuts. :-D
Hey now, don't be so presuming. In many states she might like camel toe or bearded clam.
Incidentally, what's a god?
> Incidentally, what's a god?
It's a supernatural being that can do anything merely by willing it, but who needs money every Sunday.
Frank
Quote from: "FrankDK"> Incidentally, what's a god?
It's a supernatural being that can do anything merely by willing it, but who needs money every Sunday.
Frank
Why is it whenever I ask a theists this question, atheists feel the need to chime in?
Quote from: "the_antithesis"Quote from: "FrankDK"> Incidentally, what's a god?
It's a supernatural being that can do anything merely by willing it, but who needs money every Sunday.
Frank
Why is it whenever I ask a theists this question, atheists feel the need to chime in?
As I understand it, we're nosy fuckers. Also welcome Stephanie (from a fellow newbie).
Quote from: "mykcob4"You could have never been an atheist because there is no such thing as an atheist converting to christian. The fact is that you were a person that didn't know what to believe in and you allowed someone to brainwash you. An atheist thinks for themselves and isn't taken in by things that have no bearing in fact.
Oh come on! Everyone is born an atheist! Little babies don't get born praising Jesus and asking for a cracker and a glass of wine!
Quote from: "mykcob4"BUT how can you actually be an atheist unless you have actually applied thought and logic to the issue. Atheism isn't so pedestrian, there is actually a requirement. You have to consciencially understand that people believe in myths and nonsense and decide that you won't be fooled by any of their bullshit.
You just have to not have any belief in gods. You don't need to apply thought and logic to the issue. You don't need to be particularly smart not to believe.
Oh poor Stephanie............ eeegads we're a tough room.
Welcome Newbie. At least you know what you're getting into. Sorta wonder though why a newly converted christian - who used to be an atheist (grin)- would want to join an atheist's forum? LOL Seriously....... are you testing your new-found faith? That just sounds kinda harsh to me.
anyyyway........ welcome to the snake pit and batten down the hatches.
Quoteare you testing your new-found faith?
Putting your convictions to the test is a good trait, though. Only way to find out if they're right for you.
Quote from: "Plu"Quoteare you testing your new-found faith?
Putting your convictions to the test is a good trait, though. Only way to find out if they're right for you.
I can imagine a few different ways for a christian to test their faith without joining an Atheist's forum. :rollin: That's like stepping into a lion's den and smelling like bacon.
joke for the day:Catholics are against abortions.
Catholics are against homosexuals.
But, I can't think of anyone who has less abortions than homosexuals! -- George Carlin
QuoteI can imagine a few different ways for a christian to test their faith without joining an Atheist's forum. :rollin: That's like stepping into a lion's den and smelling like bacon.
It's the scientific approach :) You don't test a theory against people who agree with you, or against known circumstances. You throw it for the lions :)
Quote from: "Plu"QuoteI can imagine a few different ways for a christian to test their faith without joining an Atheist's forum. :rollin: That's like stepping into a lion's den and smelling like bacon.
It's the scientific approach :) You don't test a theory against people who agree with you, or against known circumstances. You throw it for the lions :)
(//http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h321/SabrinaTheInkWitch/067a0b30.jpg)
Quote from: "the_antithesis"Quote from: "FrankDK"> Incidentally, what's a god?
It's a supernatural being that can do anything merely by willing it, but who needs money every Sunday.
Frank
Why is it whenever I ask a theists this question, atheists feel the need to chime in?
Because theists don't seem to be able to agree on the characteristics of their gods, while atheists do.
If you ask a chemist in India about the qualities of oxygen, he would say something like, "It's an odorless, colorless gas that supports combustion. Atomic number eight, atomic weight sixteen," etc. If you ask a chemist in Indiana the same question, you will get essentially the same answer. That indicates there is something to this "oxygen thing." That is, it's a real thing with real properties that actually exists.
If you ask a theist in India about gods, you might hear something about Rama, Shiva, Vishnu, Ganesh, etc. The average theist in Indiana will give you very different answers. That's because gods are made up, and each culture makes up a god or gods that fit their situation.
If God really existed, why would he appear to different cultures in such different forms? Just so he could sit back and watch the bloodshed that ensued?
Also, it was a joke. (Infinitely powerful but asks for money every Sunday. Get it? It's not funny if I have to explain it.)
Frank
Hi, Stephanie,
Here's a way to do a good deed and convert all the atheists on this forum at the same time.
First, are you a believer? From your initial post, I assume the answer is, "Yes."
Read Matthew 21:22: If you believe, you will receive whatsoever you ask for in prayer.
Pray that tomorrow morning, when we wake up, all the sick children in the world will be healed. That will make the morning news for sure. When we hear that, we will know that the Bible god exists, and will all become believers.
Of course, if you pray and it doesn't happen, then either the Bible is wrong (in which case, the only motivation for believing in Jesus is flawed), or you're not a believer; you're one of us. (Remember the scene in the movie, "Freaks"? "One of us...one of us..." Sorry, couldn't resist.)
And if you don't ask for that in prayer, then you aren't really a believer. You know the whole thing is a hoax.
I await the morning papers.
Love,
Frank
Good Morning All!
Glad to be back :-D
Now, I'll address the whole LU thing quickly: //http://www.sacscoc.org/ click on the link, there's a map to the right, click on VA and Liberty will be in there. LU is in the same accreditation association as schools like Texas A&M, University of Florida, and Rice University (to name a few). So, it's legitimately accredited. Also, the name Lynchburg actually came from the last name of the man who founded the city (//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynchburg,_Virginia), John Lynch whose last name originally meant "hill" (//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynch_(surname)) but, I don't really care about all that. The only reason I really bring it up is to point out that little research was done to make such a strong claim. I expect more than that from such smart people; try to not let emotions get to you, do some research first. As far as "brainwashing" goes, I would argue that the point of any University is "brainwashing". However, if you know that going into it then you can better guard yourself against what and how they teach you. I have in fact seen the biases of LU in my studies here, but have remained true to my own thoughts and ideas, a free thinker if you will; doing my own research on some of the things they teach. I told you before not to hold me to their beliefs and I meant it, but I am finished with that.
Do I believe that all gods in the past were real?
The question is rather vague, but I'll do my best! First, it depends on how you define a "god"; if you mean something that is worshipped and given praise to, then yes. There are, and have been, TONS of those! People would (and still do) worship trees, animals, stars, music, and even other people. By this simple definition almost anything can be made a "god" and it is indeed very real to the person worshipping it (and to the observer who sees the reality of it in the actions of the worshipper). If by "god" you mean a spiritual being that plays an active role in being worshipped, then also yes. It is claimed that there are spiritual beings that God made, commonly known as angels and demons, but I beg you not to allow yourself to be influenced by the cultural understanding of angels and demons, because that it not a true or reliable depiction of what they truly are. I don't want to go into great detail trying to explain it, but I will mention a couple of things for the sake of understanding. First, angels and demons are the exact same thing; but, some serve God and others serve satan. That is the only difference (to my current knowledge). Second, with the first point in mind, the whole goal of satan, and thus his servants (demons), is to keep us from knowing God; so, they distract us, sometimes in the form of "gods" to be worshipped. They are indeed very real. However, there is only one God; who created (and is still creating) the universe and everything in it. HE is the only true and real God that I call King and Father.
Do I have any questions for atheists?
Yes! A lot! Here's a few:
What do you know about hermeneutics?
What do think about relativism?
How do you explain the beginning of life?
And when I ask these questions, I really want to know what you think, with explanation and not just a whole bunch of flaming. I'd love to share my own opinions and conclusions if you'd like to know :)
Flaming?
Noooo................. that never happens here.
**cough, gag, cough, spit, sputter**
:rollin:
QuoteWhat do you know about hermeneutics?
Nothing. Doing a quick wiki on it, it's apparently the interpretation of religious/philosophical texts. So I don't really feel like I need to know much more about it, either. It sounds like something that could very easily be abused, since it's by definition about vaguery and the original authors aren't around anymore to complain. You'd need someone seriously objective to be able to take their "interpretations" seriously, and those are hard to come by when it comes to religion.
QuoteWhat do think about relativism?
Sounds like something a philosopher could come up with. I don't think it applies within the realm of science itself, either. And it (again) seems like something that could
very easily be abused by people trying to lend validity to their statements, or trying to mask their inability to back up their claims.
QuoteHow do you explain the beginning of life?
I don't. I leave that to people who actually study the subject. They know a lot more about it. Unless you want to hear it like I'd explain it to a 4-year old, but I can only answer complicated questions with "ask someone who actually studies this stuff, they know it a lot better."
Of course, the easy return question is "how is this relevant to anything?"
WitchSabrina...is your name actually Sabrina?
Quote from: "AlwaysLearning"WitchSabrina...is your name actually Sabrina?
It actually is. I was named for the famous movie in 1954 - Audrey Hepburn and Humphrey Bogart. Mom saw the movie, loved the name and had me a few years later.
lol
Beginning of life?Let's see....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis)
QuoteAbiogenesis (/?e?ba?.??d??n?s?s/ ay-by-oh-jen-?-siss[1]) or biopoiesis is a natural process by which life arises from simple organic compounds.[2][3][4][5] The earliest life on Earth existed at least 3.5 billion years ago,[6][7][8] during the Eoarchean Era when sufficient crust had solidified following the molten Hadean Eon.
Scientific hypotheses about the origins of life may be divided into several categories. Most approaches investigate how self-replicating molecules or their components came into existence. For example, the Miller–Urey experiment and similar experiments demonstrated that most amino acids, often called "the building blocks of life", can be racemically synthesized in conditions thought to be similar to those of the early Earth. Several mechanisms have been investigated, including lightning and radiation. Other approaches ("metabolism first" hypotheses) focus on understanding how catalysis in chemical systems in the early Earth might have provided the precursor molecules necessary for self-replication.
It is constantly being examined and tested
http://telicthoughts.com/the-current-st ... -research/ (http://telicthoughts.com/the-current-state-of-abiogenesis-research/)
QuoteProblem 1) Homochirality: Biology is universally homochiral.
Solution: Circular polarized light from interstellar molecular clouds can give amino acids an enantiomeric excess, irradiated iron ore can also tilt the balance of chirality, and grinding crystals can amplify chirality.
Problem 2) Nucleic acids don't spontaneously arise prebiotically.
Solution: Mix cyanamide and glycolaldehyde, let sit overnight, then add glyceraldehyde, incubate overnight, react with cyanoacetylene in a buffered aqueous solution of pH 6.5, then phosphorylate with urea and ammonium salts under heat, dehydrate and rearrange via intramolecular nucleophilic substitution, then cool, rehydrate and irradiate with ultraviolet light. Repeat. Etc., etc.
This is called science. Science begins with first observation and then forming an hypothesis, (assumption based on limited observation) and forming a theory, which is the working explanation derived from experimentation. Testing, more observation, revision of theory, more testing until some conclusions can be drawn. When conclusions are uncertain, the process continues.
As opposed to religion, which begins with the unprovable assumption that a God breathed life into a lump of clay to form life; based on "teachings" from late Neolithic, Copper and Bronze Age myths.
Quote from: "stromboli"As opposed to religion, which begins with the unprovable assumption that a God breathed life into a lump of clay to form life; based on "teachings" from late Neolithic, Copper and Bronze Age myths.
To be fair, the Bible doesn't say that. It says he took a neverending ocean, suspended half of it on a firmament, tossed in some dirt to make cool shapes in the water, and
then breathed life onto it.
Quote from: "AlwaysLearning"Good Morning All!
Glad to be back :-D
Now, I'll address the whole LU thing quickly: //http://www.sacscoc.org/ click on the link, there's a map to the right, click on VA and Liberty will be in there. LU is in the same accreditation association as schools like Texas A&M, University of Florida, and Rice University (to name a few). So, it's legitimately accredited. Also, the name Lynchburg actually came from the last name of the man who founded the city (//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynchburg,_Virginia), John Lynch whose last name originally meant "hill" (//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynch_(surname)) but, I don't really care about all that. The only reason I really bring it up is to point out that little research was done to make such a strong claim. I expect more than that from such smart people; try to not let emotions get to you, do some research first. As far as "brainwashing" goes, I would argue that the point of any University is "brainwashing". However, if you know that going into it then you can better guard yourself against what and how they teach you. I have in fact seen the biases of LU in my studies here, but have remained true to my own thoughts and ideas, a free thinker if you will; doing my own research on some of the things they teach. I told you before not to hold me to their beliefs and I meant it, but I am finished with that.
Do I believe that all gods in the past were real?
The question is rather vague, but I'll do my best! First, it depends on how you define a "god"; if you mean something that is worshipped and given praise to, then yes. There are, and have been, TONS of those! People would (and still do) worship trees, animals, stars, music, and even other people. By this simple definition almost anything can be made a "god" and it is indeed very real to the person worshipping it (and to the observer who sees the reality of it in the actions of the worshipper). If by "god" you mean a spiritual being that plays an active role in being worshipped, then also yes. It is claimed that there are spiritual beings that God made, commonly known as angels and demons, but I beg you not to allow yourself to be influenced by the cultural understanding of angels and demons, because that it not a true or reliable depiction of what they truly are. I don't want to go into great detail trying to explain it, but I will mention a couple of things for the sake of understanding. First, angels and demons are the exact same thing; but, some serve God and others serve satan. That is the only difference (to my current knowledge). Second, with the first point in mind, the whole goal of satan, and thus his servants (demons), is to keep us from knowing God; so, they distract us, sometimes in the form of "gods" to be worshipped. They are indeed very real. However, there is only one God; who created (and is still creating) the universe and everything in it. HE is the only true and real God that I call King and Father.
Do I have any questions for atheists?
Yes! A lot! Here's a few:
What do you know about hermeneutics?
What do think about relativism?
How do you explain the beginning of life?
And when I ask these questions, I really want to know what you think, with explanation and not just a whole bunch of flaming. I'd love to share my own opinions and conclusions if you'd like to know :)
1. The Beginnings of Hermeneutics
The term hermeneutics, a Latinized version of the Greek hermeneutice, has been part of common language from the beginning of the 17th century. Nevertheless, its history stretches back to ancient philosophy. Addressing the understanding of religious intuitions, Plato used this term in a number of dialogues, contrasting hermeneutic knowledge to that of sophia. Religious knowledge is a knowledge of what has been revealed or said and does not, like sophia, involve knowledge of the truth-value of the utterance. Aristotle carried this use of the term a step further, naming his work on logic and semantics Peri hermeneias, which was later rendered as De interpretatione. Only with the Stoics, and their reflections on the interpretation of myth, do we encounter something like a methodological awareness of the problems of textual understanding.
2.http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/relativism/ (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/relativism/)
3) No one has the answer to your 3rd question least of all christians. Christians have an assumption that is based on NOTHING!
You'd better check those credentials again. If you are counting on putting your degree and where it is from on your resume.
Lynchburg is named after john lynch huh? Funny how there is a plethera of Lynchburgs in the south and none in the north. Try again goofball.
Quote from: "FrankDK"Because theists don't seem to be able to agree on the characteristics of their gods, while atheists do.
If you ask a chemist in India about the qualities of oxygen, he would say something like, "It's an odorless, colorless gas that supports combustion. Atomic number eight, atomic weight sixteen," etc. If you ask a chemist in Indiana the same question, you will get essentially the same answer. That indicates there is something to this "oxygen thing." That is, it's a real thing with real properties that actually exists.
Except when I pose that question to a theist, I really don't care about the nature of god, but am trying to get the theist to examine what it is that they claim to believe. I used to be a theist until I actually gave it some thought. So I try to get theist to think.
QuoteDo I believe that all gods in the past were real?
The question is rather vague
How is the question vague? It's a very simple question. And why is asking if you believe in God isn't? So you believe other gods existed, so why do you only pick the Christian-Judeo-Islamic God to worship? Better yet---Why do you have a need or desire to believe in God? And please, no vague answers. You are starting to sound like a troll, you don't want to do that. Solitary
> Do I have any questions for atheists?
> Yes! A lot!
Great. Questions are the start of the path to knowledge.
> Here's a few:
> What do you know about hermeneutics?
Basically synonymous with exegesis. If I were a god, I could write a book that didn't need interpretation, didn't start wars, and couldn't be used as the basis for systematic persecution of groups of people. The existence of hermeneutics proves that the Bible and all other religious texts were not divinely inspired.
> What do think about relativism?
As compared to what?
> How do you explain the beginning of life?
I assume you mean abiogenesis. Stromboli provided some good information on it. I suggest you Google "abiogenesis" and read what you get. Another writer (sorry, I forget who) said that he, personally, didn't explain the beginning of life, which is pretty salient. We have this process called science, and people who work in various fields do experiments and discover things. Those of us who don't work in those fields rely on the self-correcting process of science to provide ever more accurate answers to the questions of life, the universe, and everything. The fact that the computer you are using works proves that science works.
The short answer is, we don't know for sure at this time how life originated. That doesn't mean, however, that "God did it." It wasn't that long ago in our human history that we didn't know what caused lightning. When lightning rods were first used, Christians protested that it was against the will of God, because it defeated his lightning bolts. Other people believed lightning was sparks from Thor's hammer. It wasn't until the 20th Century that we understood what made the sun shine. Every decade, the total of human knowledge roughly doubles.
How do you explain the fact that all the sick children in the world weren't cured overnight?
Frank
> Except when I pose that question to a theist, I really don't care about the nature of god, but am trying to get the theist to examine what it is that they claim to believe. I used to be a theist until I actually gave it some thought.
Same here.
> So I try to get theist to think.
And asking why an omnipotent god needs money every Sunday should help make people think.
Do you get the joke now?
Frank
Hey everyone! Sorry for the delay; you've given me lots to think about! This has seriously been a humbling experience so far; thank you all so much! :-D I will try to reply back later this afternoon/evening, but no promises; grocery shopping and lots of course work to do!
Solitary,
I am very sorry. I did not intend to sound like a troll; that is certainly not my intention. When I said it was a vague question, it was an opinion; from my point of view it seemed vague. I wasn't sure what you meant by "gods", "past", or "were real", and so I wasn't exactly sure how to answer the question appropriately. It was a simple question, I agree, but it could have insinuated a bit more, and because I don't know you very well, I wasn't sure what exactly you were asking. Again, I am very sorry; can you forgive me? Hopefully I get to know you (and everyone else) a lot more through this process!
Much love everyone! Talk to yall later :heart:
Quote from: "AlwaysLearning"Hey everyone! Sorry for the delay; you've given me lots to think about! This has seriously been a humbling experience so far; thank you all so much! :-D I will try to reply back later this afternoon/evening, but no promises; grocery shopping and lots of course work to do!
Solitary,
I am very sorry. I did not intend to sound like a troll; that is certainly not my intention. When I said it was a vague question, it was an opinion; from my point of view it seemed vague. I wasn't sure what you meant by "gods", "past", or "were real", and so I wasn't exactly sure how to answer the question appropriately. It was a simple question, I agree, but it could have insinuated a bit more, and because I don't know you very well, I wasn't sure what exactly you were asking. Again, I am very sorry; can you forgive me? Hopefully I get to know you (and everyone else) a lot more through this process!
Much love everyone! Talk to yall later :heart:
You're forgiven! :-D Feel better now? Who were the gods that God was talking to in the Garden Of Eden when He expelled Adam and Eve from the Garden? Solitary
Hello there, welcome to the forum. I haven't been here long myself. I was raised to be a Christian. My dad was 7th day adventist and my mom is still Lutheran. I had my choice of going to church on Saturday or Sunday. Some of the people I've admired most have been religious (not always christian).
As for me, I'm an atheist. I've seen too many religions that insist that you either you believe their way or you spend eternity in hell. Too many that insist that whatever science teaches must be wrong if it conflicts with their holy book. Too many that teach us that logical thought or a well reasoned argument are just the devil's way of seducing you away from God.
If there is a god who wants to put me in hell for using the brain she gave me to come to my own conclusions about what to believe, so be it. At least I figure I'll have lots of good company down there.
It's beyond me why anyone with a uterus would want anything to do with any of todays predominant religions considering how women are treat no better than a favored goat.
Quoteshe gave
:shock: [-X sacrilege! :twisted: He'll be waiting for you. :lol: Solitary
Frank,
Good point about hermeneutics. I often wonder myself why God doesn't just show up in the sky or some obvious way, and then all of this wondering and doubting would be taken care of. But I don't agree that the existence of hermeneutics proves that they were not divinely inspired. Could it not be true that something can be divinely inspired but written with imperfect, constantly changing, HUMAN INSPIRED words or language? Just because the form the inspiration was written in is flawed doesn't necessarily prove that the divine inspiration is flawed. At least that's what I think. It's kind of like me trying to jump in the middle of a book on quantum mechanics and thinking that I'll understand it or be able to rewrite it in another language. If I don't take the time to understand what the book is really talking about then my understanding of it might be flawed.
I'll Google "abiogenesis" before long! Thanks for the suggestion. It's interesting that we don't know the origin of life, I wonder if we will one day! It made me chuckle that christians used to think that lightning rods "defeated" God's lightning bolts. How silly of them. So called christians have gotten themselves in a lot of trouble always being afraid of change and science. We've often made a mess of things and made God look foolish because of the things we say and do, and I am sure that will never change on this earth because of a lack of really knowing who God is and what His heart is. I heard this saying a while ago "People know more about what christians are against rather than what they are for." It's sad and true; people think we hate gays, think that science is fake, and that anyone who doesn't believe in God is an idiot...and it's just not true. For once I'd like to show people the heart of my God.
As for the unhealed sick children, God weeps for them and I am sure that His heart is burdened with sorrow. I am unsure why He doesn't just heal us all immediately; maybe it's because when we decided to eat that fruit, sin enter in and its' consequence was sickness and death; or maybe it's because even if He did, there would still be those who would choose not to believe in Him or they would attribute it to something else. What benefit would that be? Sure, they would be healed and live, but they would still not have life. But who really knows.
Solitary,
Thank you for forgiving me! And if you're talking about verse 22 of chapter 3, then He isn't talking to other "gods", but Himself. The "us" is a kingly we, if you will. I'm sure you've heard of the trinity where God is three distinct persons but they are all one. This is confusing, but think of it like this; if God were in human form He would be Jesus, and if God were in spirit form He would be the Holy Spirit, and then God is just God...the same yet different.
Aitm,
Women are actually quite loved by God (at least the God I know). A good wife is considered far more precious than rubies, and women are considered wise, kind, helpful, and loving. I like to joke that God made us second so He made us a little better tehe :wink:
Welcome! :-D
QuoteI used to be an atheist
I always thought once your faith goes lack, you don't go back... So I guess that will be my question.
What caused you to believe (re-believe) a faith?
Quote from: "Harbinger"Married. That won't stop aitm.
:rollin:
PickledEggs...I didn't have faith to start with. I may have said at one point that I was a Christian but I sure didn't know why. What made me believe? I saw love, hope, and life that I had never seen in people before, I heard the testimony of a man who's story moved me and I just couldn't deny the existence of God in his life, and I just couldn't help but fall in love with a God who loved me so deeply even though I denied His very existence. To summarize: love is what really caused me to believe and have faith in God. Sure, maybe not reason but what reason is there in believing in a God that loves you even if you hate Him?! You're crazy to believe in such a God but you're just as crazy if you don't.
Hi Stephanie. Nice to meet you. :)
You want a god to be there. I get that. I want this god to love me too and to make Warren Buffet adopt me as his long lost sonny boy, but it ain't happening and I don't buy it nor do I buy that this 'loving god' will burn me for eternity to show 'his' displeasure'
You're better off with toothfairyanism and realise the dental deity pays cold hard cash, picks up and delivers.. :lol:
Oh wow. I didn't realize this was 4 pages long. I missed a lot of the conversation! :lol:
Edit: 5 pages long
Quote from: "PickelledEggs"Oh wow. I didn't realize this was 4 pages long. I missed a lot of the conversation! :lol:
Edit: 5 pages long
I prayed for being the first post of page 5. What a coincidence! :shock:
Quote from: "PickelledEggs"Oh wow. I didn't realize this was 4 pages long. I missed a lot of the conversation! :lol:
Edit: 5 pages long
haha you have missed a lot! But glad you've joined! I don't know how much more I'll be on this particular thread...I want to hang around some more in other places, but it was good to meet you all the same!
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"Quote from: "PickelledEggs"Oh wow. I didn't realize this was 4 pages long. I missed a lot of the conversation! :lol:
Edit: 5 pages long
I prayed for being the first post of page 5. What a coincidence! :shock:
I suspect you had an extra tooth to put under the pillow for that extra bit of magic? =D> :lol:
Quote from: "AlwaysLearning"haha you have missed a lot! But glad you've joined! I don't know how much more I'll be on this particular thread...I want to hang around some more in other places, but it was good to meet you all the same!
Nice to meet you too :)
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"...nor do I buy that this 'loving god' will burn me for eternity to show 'his' displeasure'...
He doesn't "burn us" because He is displeased with us. God is totally loving, but He is also totally just and holy. Because of these characteristics nothing unholy can be in His presence. Not because He is too good for us but literally because it cannot exist in His presence...men who would go into the place in the temple where God's presence would reside would fall and die if they had not done the proper rituals to "cover over their sins". If we choose to reject God and what happened on the cross then we "haven't done the proper rituals to cover over our sins" and we will "die". Hope that clarifies.
Believe me...it is a great displeasure for God to "burn us".
Quote from: "mykcob4"Quote from: "AlwaysLearning"Just wanted to introduce myself! My name is Stephanie, I'm 22 years old, and recently married (totally in love!). I love the outdoors; hiking, biking, and rock climbing. Also, I enjoy crafts and photography as occasional hobbies and would really like to learn how to make quilts. I go to school online (full time) at Liberty University, but don't hold me to their beliefs. I am indeed a Christian, but I don't affiliate myself with one specific denomination. I'm not here to "convince you that you're stupid" like some might believe, because I know quite the contrary! I used to be an atheist and was on a few atheist forum communities myself and I remember how intelligent the people on those boards were. So, I'm back to learn how to defend my beliefs a little better and address some really good questions that people have about Christianity. So ask away!
Liberty University is not a real school. It's a brainwash center for sheep that grants a fake degree. Liberty is a disgrace. It doesn't teach good science and replaces it with pseudo- science that fits its political believes.
You could have never been an atheist because there is no such thing as an atheist converting to christian. The fact is that you were a person that didn't know what to believe in and you allowed someone to brainwash you. An atheist thinks for themselves and isn't taken in by things that have no bearing in fact.
I put it to you that you cannot prove a god, a miracle or anything that can be associated by the christian tenets.
Heres a test about your socalled university. Do they teach that this nation was based on judeo-christian principles or that this is and always has been a secular nation? If they don't endorse the latter then their accreditation is invalid.
Pseudo-science, revissionist history, is all that is taught at the jerry falwell school of brainwashing known as liberty university. Just look at the name of the city where it is founded. It's Lynchburg Tennessee. It's called Lynchburg because they practiced lynching blacks. So racial prejudice is a hallmark of your socalled school. They beleive that you can "pray the gay away', as if gays have a choice of who and how they are.
So newbie I welcome you to have HONEST discussions, but I certainly don't believe that will ever happen as your core belief is based on a lie and a myth. All christians are hypocrites, so it will take a great deal for you to prove otherwise. I have a slogan for all christains, and conservatives, especially those associated with liberty university: "Do us all a favor and kill yourself, but be considerate and don't leave a mess."
This is a SECULAR nation. Religion is a myth and a lie. There is no god and never has been.
So go find Elvis, bigfoot, Nessy, but don't come here and pretend that you are the first and what would be the only christian that first converted from atheism (never happened), that you are pusuing a REAL degree from a REAL university, that you an intellect worthy of consideration.
Do us all a favor......!
Could you at least make an effort to not be a complete asshole?
Quote from: "AlwaysLearning"Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"...nor do I buy that this 'loving god' will burn me for eternity to show 'his' displeasure'...
He doesn't "burn us" because He is displeased with us. God is totally loving, but He is also totally just and holy. Because of these characteristics nothing unholy can be in His presence. Not because He is too good for us but literally because it cannot exist in His presence...men who would go into the place in the temple where God's presence would reside would fall and die if they had not done the proper rituals to "cover over their sins". If we choose to reject God and what happened on the cross then we "haven't done the proper rituals to cover over our sins" and we will "die". Hope that clarifies.
Believe me...it is a great displeasure for God to "burn us".
There are so many logical contradictions in this "explanation" that it's not even really worth going over them :(
Quote from: "AlwaysLearning"Women are actually quite loved by God (at least the God I know). A good wife is considered far more precious than rubies, and women are considered wise, kind, helpful, and loving. I like to joke that God made us second so He made us a little better tehe :wink:
This is probably true until this "good wife" wants to have control over her own life and her own body.
AlwaysLearning,
> Good point about hermeneutics. I often wonder myself why God doesn't just show up in the sky or some obvious way, and then all of this wondering and doubting would be taken care of.
The most likely explanation for this is that god doesn't exist. Yes, there are convoluted, illogical, contradictory excuses that could be offered, but they seem exceedingly unlikely. If god wants us to believe, and then goes out of his way to make it look to any rational person that he does not exist, he is pretty devious.
> But I don't agree that the existence of hermeneutics proves that they were not divinely inspired. Could it not be true that something can be divinely inspired but written with imperfect, constantly changing, HUMAN INSPIRED words or language?
Yes, that is true. In which case, your god is a hateful, sadistic bastard. If the god that created the universe, that determined the charge on an electron so the universe would support life, the god whose eye is on the sparrow, can't inspire a document without a multitude of internal contradictions, factual errors, and blatant stupidity, then he must be doing it out of malice. I would never worship such a malicious god.
> Just because the form the inspiration was written in is flawed doesn't necessarily prove that the divine inspiration is flawed. At least that's what I think. It's kind of like me trying to jump in the middle of a book on quantum mechanics and thinking that I'll understand it or be able to rewrite it in another language. If I don't take the time to understand what the book is really talking about then my understanding of it might be flawed.
You don't have to understand quantum mechanics to recognize that a book that says Einstein was born in 1887 and then later says it was 1892 has errors in it. If it says the weight of an electron is 1/1657 AMU, the book is wrong; you don't have to go any further. And if such a book claims that you shouldn't kill, but you are required to kill witches, and that homosexuality is wrong, and that god couldn't save us from the sin he tempted us to commit without making a Jewish zombie, there is no motivation to believe these things, since the book contains many obvious factual errors.
> I'll Google "abiogenesis" before long! Thanks for the suggestion. It's interesting that we don't know the origin of life, I wonder if we will one day!
We have identified several paths by which life could have arisen. We may never know which of the possibilities actually led to us. That doesn't cast doubt on the fact that it happened by natural means.
> It made me chuckle that christians used to think that lightning rods "defeated" God's lightning bolts. How silly of them.
The Holocaust was a Christian movement. So were the Crusades and the Inquisition. Sometimes Christian beliefs cause silly behavior; sometimes they cause tragedy.
> So called christians have gotten themselves in a lot of trouble always being afraid of change and science. We've often made a mess of things and made God look foolish because of the things we say and do, and I am sure that will never change on this earth because of a lack of really knowing who God is and what His heart is. I heard this saying a while ago "People know more about what christians are against rather than what they are for." It's sad and true; people think we hate gays, think that science is fake, and that anyone who doesn't believe in God is an idiot...and it's just not true. For once I'd like to show people the heart of my God.
You seem to start with the assumption that the god you call "God" exists and then modify your interpretation of reality to fit that assumption. I only believe in things for which there is evidence, and there is no evidence for your god.
> As for the unhealed sick children, God weeps for them and I am sure that His heart is burdened with sorrow. I am unsure why He doesn't just heal us all immediately;
It's because he doesn't exist. If I were this god, I would. That makes me much more merciful than your god. You should worship me.
Besides, the fact that there are sick people shows the Bible is wrong. Matthew 21:22 clearly states that if you believe, you will receive whatsoever you ask for in prayer. Yet believers' prayers are often unfulfilled.
> maybe it's because when we decided to eat that fruit, sin enter in and its' consequence was sickness and death;
Let's think about this particular myth. First, your god made people without the sense of right and wrong, so they were incapable of knowing that disobeying him was wrong. Then he put a tree right in the middle of their yard, knowing full well that they would disobey (since they didn't know it was wrong), eat the fruit, and be miserable forever. What an idiot! All he had to do was move the tree, or just give people the knowledge of right and wrong so they would know it was wrong to disobey him. Then, to add insult to injury, he blamed people! It was his fault. He's the one who should be condemned to Hell, not people.
This myth was made up to explain the difference between inanimate objects like rocks, living things like animals, and people, who seemed to know the difference between right and wrong, unlike animals.
So which is more likely: that the god that created people he loved set it up so they couldn't avoid being condemned to sickness and death forever, or evolution?
> or maybe it's because even if He did, there would still be those who would choose not to believe in Him or they would attribute it to something else. What benefit would that be? Sure, they would be healed and live, but they would still not have life. But who really knows.
I do. And deep down, so do you.
Frank
This just in
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/2 ... 33275.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/20/phill-kline-suspended-kansas-abortion_n_4133275.html)
QuoteThe Kansas Supreme Court on Friday indefinitely suspended the law license of the state's former attorney general, finding that he engaged in "ethical misconduct" in his aggressive pursuit of charges against abortion providers in the state.
In a unanimous decision, the court found that former Attorney General Phill Kline, 53, broke professional conduct rules and tended towards "overzealous advocacy" for his cause, Reuters reported. According to the ruling, the court was worried by Kline's "inability or refusal" to acknowledge his misconduct.
The Supreme Court found that Kline committed "significant and numerous" violations to advance his investigations, the Associated Press reported. His infractions included repeatedly misleading or allowing his employees to mislead others -- including a grand jury.
According to the Kansas City Star, Kline was found to have made "'false and misleading' statements to the Supreme Court about the handling of patient records obtained during the criminal investigations," among other infractions.
George Tiller, the Wichita doctor who was killed in 2009 for providing abortions, was one of Kline's subjects of investigation. Kline also led an investigation into a branch of Planned Parenthood located in the town of Overland Park, a suburb of Kansas City. In 2007, that investigation culminated in a 107-count indictment where Kline alleged that Planned Parenthood had falsified records and performed illegal abortions. The case was later dropped by current Johnson County district Attorney Steve Howe.
Kline now teaches at Liberty University in Virginia, a private Christian school founded by anti-gay pastor and televangelist Jerry Falwell.
Liberty may or may not be accredited, but to give tenure to a man whose ability to practice law was suspended and willfully and repeatedly violated the ethical conduct of his office does not speak to a quality education. The point is that the school's agenda is not one of a rounded education, but having specific leanings to a fundamentally conservative religious view.
:roll: I still didn't get an answer to who the gods were that God was talking to in the Garden Of Eden.
This being in the Bible (Any of them!), shows that the idea of one God is a myth. There are also many people mentioned in Scripture that are also named in Pagan religions which show this. The idea of a "loving god" that is not tainted by sin by sending people to hell is as irrational as thinking can get. Love doesn't prove there is a God anymore than fear or hate does, it only shows that the concept of God is probably based on our image and not the other way around.
Every Christian I have heard supports their faith in God based on pick and choose in Scripture from what they already believe from hatred, love, fear, bigotry, prejudice, they're special, and being absolutely right with its support. In other words being neurotic or insane and unable to think rationally and soundly. And anytime you ask a question that blatantly is an obvious contradiction to their beliefs they become silent. :roll: Solitary