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Humanities Section => Philosophy & Rhetoric General Discussion => Topic started by: GSOgymrat on July 12, 2013, 02:19:37 PM

Title: Living life to the fullest
Post by: GSOgymrat on July 12, 2013, 02:19:37 PM
As an atheist I am only observed by other people (an animals).
I am only judged by other people (and perhaps cats).
I don't have any children (they are a total buzz kill), so I have no investment in anything that happens after I die.
Because death is "game over" it is imperative I live as long as possible and maximize every experience.
In order to maximize my experiences lying, stealing and killing may be necessary (someone has to pay for my good times and work blows).
As long as I don't get caught, this is the best way to live life to the fullest.

Thoughts?

Do sociopaths have the most fun?
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on July 12, 2013, 04:18:15 PM
I'm not impressed by selfishness. Raising kids is very fulfilling, but you'll never know and believe it or not you'll get old, unattractive and end up paying all your ilgotten gains out for medical expenses or just the expenses of getting old and nobody will give a rats ass that your back hurts or you need your diaper changed or that you're just lonely. But hey..don't take my word for it. Visit a prison where they house the lifers. See how swell they have it.
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: stromboli on July 12, 2013, 04:47:34 PM
Personal philosophy. It is right for you if you agree with it. Had it to do over, I would probably do something very similar.
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: Plu on July 12, 2013, 05:49:11 PM
If you can steal, lie and cheat without feeling guilty, that's probably the best way.

Just keep in mind that there's a lot of other people out there who won't feel guilty for locking you in a small room for the rest of your life if they catch you doing it, which will put a quick stop to "live long and experience much".
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: stromboli on July 12, 2013, 06:35:42 PM
The "as long as I don't get caught" part is the problem. You are assuming when you commit a crime that you are smarter than anyone who wishes to find the criminal. The people that get away with crimes are few and far between. Other than major bankers or people who can buy immunity politically, criminals have a high percentage of getting caught.

I used to work with a guy who is an atheist, and lived a very free life. He had a good job, same as mine, and lived in a cheap apartment. But he did everything he wanted, owned the vehicle he wanted, had the girl friend he wanted, and so on. It amounts to priorities. If you have priorities that involve wealth and attainment, it is much harder to achieve and maintain. This guy was a rock climber, outdoorsman, cross country skier and liked to travel. He did exactly what he wanted. If committing crime is part of the deal, you might need to rethink your plans a little.
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: Shiranu on July 12, 2013, 06:48:50 PM
Meh, I find material wealth and irresponsibility doesn't bring much happiness, otherwise I would be very happy indeed.

And if you think work sucks, just wait till you get to spend time in the slammer for screwing over the wrong person.
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: mykcob4 on July 12, 2013, 06:57:03 PM
Quote from: "GSOgymrat"As an atheist I am only observed by other people (an animals).
I am only judged by other people (and perhaps cats).
I don't have any children (they are a total buzz kill), so I have no investment in anything that happens after I die.
Because death is "game over" it is imperative I live as long as possible and maximize every experience.
In order to maximize my experiences lying, stealing and killing may be necessary (someone has to pay for my good times and work blows).
As long as I don't get caught, this is the best way to live life to the fullest.

Thoughts?

Do sociopaths have the most fun?
"Thoughts?" Obviously you didn't think. I live my life to the fullest but I don't cheat steal rob or kill. If you have to do any of those things you aren't living life to the fullest. You're living life to the foolest!
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: GSOgymrat on July 12, 2013, 08:08:03 PM
Just for clarification, this is not me. I'm paraphrasing a line of reasoning used more than one of my clients. I'm a mental health counselor.

I posted this scenario on this forum is because I know the reaction of colleagues, who are all Christians, and was curious what reaction I would get from atheists.
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: stromboli on July 12, 2013, 09:26:18 PM
I consider myself a person with some intelligence and capable of guile. I can see situations where I might do something criminal, but I don't because the gain is not worth the risk. I don't lie for the same reason, because the outcome isn't worth the effort of having to keep remembering the lie. I think that might be a definition of sanity.
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: aitm on July 13, 2013, 12:36:03 AM
QuoteAs long as I don't get caught, this is the best way to live life to the fullest.

hmmm. cue Aaron Hernandez..
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: Aupmanyav on July 13, 2013, 05:04:50 AM
Quote from: "GSOgymrat"Because death is "game over" it is imperative I live as long as possible and maximize every experience.
In order to maximize my experiences lying, stealing and killing may be necessary (someone has to pay for my good times and work blows).
As long as I don't get caught, this is the best way to live life to the fullest.
If you desire to live as long as possible and maximize every experience, then lying, stealing, and killing are not going to help you. You might end up in jail or on the death row. So, you will only get jail experience. Is that what you want?
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: Brian37 on July 13, 2013, 06:24:40 AM
I don't have kids and don't want one either. But I also hate selfishness. I think life is what you give meaning to, not what others sell you or tell you what to be.

"It's not illegal if you don't get caught"

That is the morality of God right there. No accountability. That is selfishness.

Better morality is when you do the right thing, even when no one is watching.

I like going to work and going home and staying home. My only outside activity is visiting my mom, taking her out shopping and eating and to her doctors appointments. And I don't give one fuck what someone thinks of that. I don't find that boring at all.
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: Brian37 on July 13, 2013, 06:36:20 AM
Quote from: "stromboli"The "as long as I don't get caught" part is the problem. You are assuming when you commit a crime that you are smarter than anyone who wishes to find the criminal. The people that get away with crimes are few and far between. Other than major bankers or people who can buy immunity politically, criminals have a high percentage of getting caught.

I used to work with a guy who is an atheist, and lived a very free life. He had a good job, same as mine, and lived in a cheap apartment. But he did everything he wanted, owned the vehicle he wanted, had the girl friend he wanted, and so on. It amounts to priorities. If you have priorities that involve wealth and attainment, it is much harder to achieve and maintain. This guy was a rock climber, outdoorsman, cross country skier and liked to travel. He did exactly what he wanted. If committing crime is part of the deal, you might need to rethink your plans a little.

Agreed. If someone thinks being an "atheist" means being "Barny Bad Ass", they can go fuck themselves. No, all "atheist" means is lack of belief in a god or gods. Atheists still have families and jobs and responsibilities. And even if they are single they still have bills and parents and friends to think of. "Atheist" does not mean rebel or evil or criminal. It merely means lack of belief in a god or gods.

QuoteIf committing crime is part of the deal, you might need to rethink your plans a little.

Agreed. You not only are fucking up your own life, but the lives of those you victimize and your own family as well.
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: SGOS on July 13, 2013, 06:47:42 AM
Quote from: "GSOgymrat"Just for clarification, this is not me. I'm paraphrasing a line of reasoning used more than one of my clients. I'm a mental health counselor.

I posted this scenario on this forum is because I know the reaction of colleagues, who are all Christians, and was curious what reaction I would get from atheists.
Good to hear.  At worst, I was beginning to make very negative judgments about you.  At best, I thought you may have been playing some weird head game.  Having said that, I keep imagining a best seller titled "Living Prison Life to the Fullest."  I can't think of a bigger waste of time than spending even one day in jail.
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: Brian37 on July 13, 2013, 07:19:23 AM
Quote from: "GSOgymrat"Just for clarification, this is not me. I'm paraphrasing a line of reasoning used more than one of my clients. I'm a mental health counselor.

I posted this scenario on this forum is because I know the reaction of colleagues, who are all Christians, and was curious what reaction I would get from atheists.

Well, I can say we(atheist websites in general) have had posers post crap to see if we'd go "Yea, life is a free for all", and we also have had people who claim the label as meaning "Barney bad ass" or former "atheists" who defined it as "Not following the word of god". "Atheist" means none of those things. The word "atheist" does not address morality, merely position, on one issue.

I kid you not, a long time ago on Infidel Guy's website some idiot started a thread "I beat my girlfriend, enter with an open mind". HOLLY SHIT! This fuckwad thought "atheist" meant we would not judge him for that. Not only did we hand his ass to him, but the moron was stupid enough to put his name and location under his avatar. I called the authorities there gave them a link to the post, and he got a visit.
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: mykcob4 on July 13, 2013, 10:41:00 AM
Quote from: "stromboli"I consider myself a person with some intelligence and capable of guile. I can see situations where I might do something criminal, but I don't because the gain is not worth the risk. I don't lie for the same reason, because the outcome isn't worth the effort of having to keep remembering the lie. I think that might be a definition of sanity.
I find it odd that people don't commit crimes because of the risk. One should not commit a crime because it is a crime, not that they may suffer punishment. I also don't subscribe to the conservative tenet that it isn't a crime if you don't get caught. That is morally reprehensible.
If one is an adult, and understands right from wrong, one should choose to do the right thing for the sake of morality and for no other reason. To not commit a crime for any other reason is just immature childishnessness.
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on July 13, 2013, 10:46:16 AM
SGOS, I've known a few guys who claimed to like life in prisons. They claim drugs are much easier to get, the pressure to find a sex partner is near nil and so on. Of course everything they do almost is illegal and often lands them in the hole for a month, but short of that they become accustomed to the structure and opportunities to commit more crimes behind the walls. Almost everyone I know who has been in prison will tell you it's much easier time than the county jail.
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: SGOS on July 13, 2013, 02:13:21 PM
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"SGOS, I've known a few guys who claimed to like life in prisons. They claim drugs are much easier to get, the pressure to find a sex partner is near nil and so on. Of course everything they do almost is illegal and often lands them in the hole for a month, but short of that they become accustomed to the structure and opportunities to commit more crimes behind the walls. Almost everyone I know who has been in prison will tell you it's much easier time than the county jail.
I had a friend who went to prison for a year for drug dealing.  He described it as "boot camp."  Yeah, I can understand some guys might like it, but for me, and I'm sure for most people, it's a poor alternative to living on the outside.  I have better things to do with my life and finding the easiest way to get drugs.  You can tell me all the advantages there is to life in prison and maybe there are some, but for me, there are more advantages, at least the kind I want, outside of prison.  For someone who aspires to a life in prison, with little effort he can have it.  But I think he's set his sights pretty low.
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: SGOS on July 13, 2013, 02:26:12 PM
Quote from: "stromboli"I consider myself a person with some intelligence and capable of guile. I can see situations where I might do something criminal, but I don't because the gain is not worth the risk. I don't lie for the same reason, because the outcome isn't worth the effort of having to keep remembering the lie. I think that might be a definition of sanity.
I'm with you.  It's not worth the risk, and just as important, it's not worth the effort.  I've known a few guys that love ducking the system.  And I'm talking about for nickel dime stuff where the punishment isn't even that bad.  I tried it for awhile and got away with it too, but I hated looking over my shoulder to avoid getting caught just to save a few bucks.  I eventually decided it was a lot less sweat to simply follow the rules.

Now a big diamond heist might be different.  Nah, still not worth the effort.  And as far as something between the two extremes, it's probably more lucrative and easier to get a job greeting people at Wal-Mart than to rob a liquor store every month.
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: Colanth on July 13, 2013, 07:29:21 PM
Quote from: "mykcob4"I find it odd that people don't commit crimes because of the risk. One should not commit a crime because it is a crime, not that they may suffer punishment.
People with morals don't do wrong things that are wrong.  People with religion don't do wrong things because they might be punished.
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: frosty on August 04, 2013, 02:14:21 AM
Living your life to the fullest I think is an issue of perception. You have to do what makes you personally fulfilled. Part of the problem I think is that people are going off media stereotypes about how living life to the fullest is getting drunk, doing drugs, sky diving, skiing, rock climbing, hooking up with models, living in a mansion, driving fast expensive cars, etc.. You get the point.

The problem with that stereotype is, I think, three things:

1) Life isn't always awesome. There is going to be rough times if you like it or not and you must deal with them. You aren't always going to get what I described above, and that upsets some people.

2) People spend so much time worrying about and looking for "how to live life to the fullest", when they are wasting time in their lives!! They are so busy and frustrated searching for what they have been told is the ideal life that in the process of doing so they lose their motivation and energy.

3) I've heard many people in my life talk about how material possessions are fun for a while, but they never fill whatever mental hole you have inside. Even if you are able to get the fancy things I described above, would that really make you happy? Do you think it would truly satisfy you, or did somebody tell you it would and you just believed them without questioning it?

My personal idea of living life to the fullest is accomplishing what you truly, 100 percent believe you really desire. Whatever that is, is up to you. But until you discover what you want to get out of life for yourself, then you will always be searching.

My $0.02.
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: Youssuf Ramadan on August 04, 2013, 07:22:23 AM
I don't have kids either, I never really wanted them, and I don't really feel that bringing kids into the world we're creating is a particularly good thing for them or me with the way things are now.  I don't see my lifestyle as being selfish, as the idea of selfishness implies that I'm denying something to someone else, which isn't the case.  

Everyone should be able to make their own lifestyle choices.  What's right for one isn't necessarily right for another.

I'm with the post that said this is pretty much a one-way ticket so make the best of it.
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: SGOS on August 04, 2013, 07:22:59 AM
Oops, post in the wrong thread.
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: LikelyToBreak on August 04, 2013, 11:54:19 AM
I believe in the tit-for-tat theory.  If I treat people like shit, they will treat me like shit.  Just makes sense.  For instance, the Sargent tells the guys in his platoon, "These guys around you are going into combat with you.  They may end up saving your life.  Then again, maybe they won't.  Treat them accordingly."  Most of us will never go into combat, but we will all experience problems, which someone can help us with.  Then again, maybe they won't, if you treat them like doormats.

I'm kind of wondering what you guys think of victimless crime.  By far the most common, is recreational drug use, but there are many others.  Such as prostitution, illegal gambling, and the violation of blue laws.  Is it morally wrong to do these things?  Granted, it might not be a very good idea for other reasons, especially since these are usually criminal activities which might land you in jail or get your throat slit, but if legal and reasonably safe, is it okay to do them?

Personal opinion is yes.  Especially if they are properly regulated.  And assuming you regulate yourself.  Christians in this country make this stuff illegal, which just makes the consequences of them worse.  Unregulated drugs hit the street, where people fight over territories and the customers don't know what they are really getting.  Women are forced into prostitution by some scum bag pimp.  Illegal gambling joints are established, where if you do actually win, your throat is likely to get cut as you leave the place.  

Anyway, what about victimless crimes? Okay or not?
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: Thumpalumpacus on August 04, 2013, 11:59:10 AM
Quote from: "GSOgymrat"In order to maximize my experiences lying, stealing and killing may be necessary (someone has to pay for my good times and work blows).
As long as I don't get caught, this is the best way to live life to the fullest.

Thoughts?

Your client seems to be forgetting that other people don't like being treated like shit, and will generally return the favor.
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: FrankDK on August 04, 2013, 12:07:27 PM
> lying, stealing and killing may be necessary (someone has to pay for my good times and work blows).

You could be a banker, politician, or car salesman.  Other than that, you should remember that the "path" in sociopath means "sick."

If you are hurting others unnecessarily, you are not living live to the fullest.

Frank
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: GSOgymrat on August 04, 2013, 05:35:18 PM
Quote from: "LikelyToBreak"Anyway, what about victimless crimes? Okay or not?

I think whether a "victimless" crime is okay depends on whether one values the freedom of the individual over other values such as purity, tradition or the welfare of the community. Considering prostitution, if one believes that sex is inherently sacred, that prostitution is dehumanizing by treating women as objects instead of people or that prostitution undermines committed relationships-- obviously it would not be okay. However if one believes people should have the freedom to do what they want with their own bodies and enter into consensual and honest business transactions-- it would be okay.

My personal opinion is that just because something is likely to result in bad consequences doesn't necessarily mean it should be illegal. I don't think prostitution is a good idea for various reasons but I think the right of individuals to manage their own sexual relationships, even if they involve exchanging cash, supersedes my concerns.
Title: Re: Living life to the fullest
Post by: Colanth on August 04, 2013, 10:03:20 PM
Quote from: "frosty"3) I've heard many people in my life talk about how material possessions are fun for a while, but they never fill whatever mental hole you have inside. Even if you are able to get the fancy things I described above, would that really make you happy?
For me that's really simple.  Just let me keep learning until the morning I don't wake up and I'll have been happy until my last night.  A life "easy" enough that I don't suffer would also be nice.  (Enough, not "more, more, more".)

Now, waking up in an 18 year old healthy body after I die would be nice, but an easy death is at least realistic.