Quote by Victor J. Stenger emeritus professor of physics and astronomy at the University of Hawaii: " If you watch a moving clock go by, that clock will appear to run slower. This is called time dilation. An observer sitting on the clock will not notice anything different about her clock but will see yours moving more slowly." I was told at this forum that it wasn't true when I posted the same thing in my opinion.
"The same is true for the measured distance between events. A meter stick is, by definition, a meter long as measured in reference frame at rest with respect to the stick. If that meter stick is moving across your line-of-sight, you will "observe" it to shrink in the direction of its motion. This is called Fitzgerald-Lorentz contraction. An observer sitting on the meter stick will not notice anything different about his meter stick, but he will see one at rest in your in your reference frame shrink in the direction of its motion." Again, I was told at this forum that was not true when I posted it.
Another quote from Isaac Asimov a renowned science authority: "This meant the foreshortening or mass-gain was not a real phenomenon but only a change in measurement. The amount by which length decreased or mass increased was not something that could be absolutely determined but different from observer to observer." I also said this in different words and was slam basted because I was wrong.
Einstein Quote: "But the question remains: Is it true that moving clocks really slow down, or is it just an illusion? Is it like two people viewing each other at distance, both having the impression that the other is smaller, while they are equally tall in reality?
They answer can only be: Yes, it is an illusion. A Stubbornly Persistent Illusion in the words of Einstein.
Why? Because the rate of time is measured by clocks and clocks are mechanical devices, classical or quantum mechanical, and it is unthinkable that the rate of a clock can be affected by motion with constant velocity because mechanics is invariant under translation with constant velocity. :P :lol:
When I cease to find pleasure in something I quit, this is why I never got hooked on drugs of any kind. I have been so frustrated by being told I am incompetent, stupid, wrong! Try again! accused of doing the same when I didn't. I feel it's time for me to leave a few of my old friends here because I'm getting too old and it's not worth it to stay here--- I was told by management to go to bed I've been up to late---I really don't like snide remarks or those made to anybody that is just posting their opinions that I have seen done here to other atheists. I hope the very few that do this are happy I'm leaving, and I'm not coming back period. Too many intellectual snobs and ignorant criticizers here that think they know physics and don't for my taste. Solitary AKA Kiang AKA Bill :evil: :cry:
Quote from: "Solitary"Another quote from Isaac Asimov a renowned science authority
A biochemist that writes
Science Fiction!
For those interested, several years ago, I had a blog on the twin paradox.
http://soi.blogspot.ca/2011/09/twin-paradox.html (http://soi.blogspot.ca/2011/09/twin-paradox.html)
Feel free to ask questions.
Quote from: "Solitary"I was told at this forum that it wasn't true when I posted the same thing in my opinion.
In cosmology, a very slight difference in wording can change a rock-solid fact into a nonsensical assertion. Anyone who doesn't completely understand the subject, and tries to post something he's seen "in his own words", is just looking to get flamed.
Quote from: "Jason78"Quote from: "Solitary"Another quote from Isaac Asimov a renowned science authority
A biochemist that writes Science Fiction!
Einstein Quote: "But the question remains: Is it true that moving clocks really slow down, or is it just an illusion? Is it like two people viewing each other at distance, both having the impression that the other is smaller, while they are equally tall in reality?
They answer can only be: Yes, it is an illusion. A Stubbornly Persistent Illusion in the words of Einstein.
So, do you think maybe this guy doesn't know what he's talking about also!
Quote from: "Colanth"Quote from: "Solitary"I was told at this forum that it wasn't true when I posted the same thing in my opinion.
In cosmology, a very slight difference in wording can change a rock-solid fact into a nonsensical assertion. Anyone who doesn't completely understand the subject, and tries to post something he's seen "in his own words", is just looking to get flamed.
I couldn't agree more! And guess who doesn't understand the subject-----YOU! And all the other people here that don't think I do.
Einstein Quote: "But the question remains: Is it true that moving clocks really slow down, or is it just an illusion? Is it like two people viewing each other at distance, both having the impression that the other is smaller, while they are equally tall in reality?
They answer can only be: Yes, it is an illusion. A Stubbornly Persistent Illusion in the words of Einstein.
We all have our delusions. Solitary
Quote from: "Solitary"Quote from: "Colanth"Quote from: "Solitary"I was told at this forum that it wasn't true when I posted the same thing in my opinion.
In cosmology, a very slight difference in wording can change a rock-solid fact into a nonsensical assertion. Anyone who doesn't completely understand the subject, and tries to post something he's seen "in his own words", is just looking to get flamed.
I couldn't agree more! And guess who doesn't understand the subject-----YOU! And all the other people here that don't think I do.
Einstein Quote: "But the question remains: Is it true that moving clocks really slow down, or is it just an illusion? Is it like two people viewing each other at distance, both having the impression that the other is smaller, while they are equally tall in reality?
They answer can only be: Yes, it is an illusion. A Stubbornly Persistent Illusion in the words of Einstein.
We all have our delusions. Solitary
You are misinterpreting those words. We know that muons from cosmic rays live longer than those produced in the lab, and the differences in their half-lives equal precisely what Relativity predicts. Also all communication satellites must have their clocks adjusted according to special relativity and general relativity. Otherwise, GPS would be out of synchronization within minutes. And every particle physicist will tell you that they need to use SR and GR in their calculations when they examine collisions of subatomic particles. The evidence for SR and GR is overwhelming.
So you disagree with Einstein?
QuoteEinstein Quote: "But the question remains: Is it true that moving clocks really slow down, or is it just an illusion? Is it like two people viewing each other at distance, both having the impression that the other is smaller, while they are equally tall in reality?
They answer can only be: Yes, it is an illusion. A Stubbornly Persistent Illusion in the words of Einstein.
He's talking about measurement being real as you say, but that it is an illusion to think they actually do. Solitary
Quote from: "Solitary"So you disagree with Einstein? QuoteEinstein Quote: "But the question remains: Is it true that moving clocks really slow down, or is it just an illusion? Is it like two people viewing each other at distance, both having the impression that the other is smaller, while they are equally tall in reality?
They answer can only be: Yes, it is an illusion. A Stubbornly Persistent Illusion in the words of Einstein.
He's talking about measurement being real as you say, but that it is an illusion to think they actually do. Solitary
Then in that case, everything we measure would be an illusion, and all of reality would be an illusion. I doubt this is the basis of Einstein thinking. I suspect that this quote was taken out of context. Please let me know where this quote can be found.
Quote from: "josephpalazzo"Quote from: "Solitary"So you disagree with Einstein? QuoteEinstein Quote: "But the question remains: Is it true that moving clocks really slow down, or is it just an illusion? Is it like two people viewing each other at distance, both having the impression that the other is smaller, while they are equally tall in reality?
They answer can only be: Yes, it is an illusion. A Stubbornly Persistent Illusion in the words of Einstein.
He's talking about measurement being real as you say, but that it is an illusion to think they actually do. Solitary
Then in that case, everything we measure would be an illusion, and all of reality would be an illusion. I doubt this is the basis of Einstein thinking. I suspect that this quote was taken out of context. Please let me know where this quote can be found.
Look, before I say anything, I am very much aware that you know what relativity means and the math with regards to it. I'm also aware that you are smarter than the average person. It does mean everything we measure is an illusion, and that what actual reality is we can't know. But this is getting into the philosophy of science. Solitary. I'll get back on the quote.
There's a difference between "it only looks like it, it's not real" and "it only appears to be so to another observer". The latter DOES NOT mean anything at all like the former.
Quote from: "Solitary"Einstein Quote: "But the question remains: Is it true that moving clocks really slow down, or is it just an illusion? Is it like two people viewing each other at distance, both having the impression that the other is smaller, while they are equally tall in reality?
They answer can only be: Yes, it is an illusion. A Stubbornly Persistent Illusion in the words of Einstein. He's talking about measurement being real as you say, but that it is an illusion to think they actually do. Solitary
Quote from: "josephpalazzo"Then in that case, everything we measure would be an illusion, and all of reality would be an illusion. I doubt this is the basis of Einstein thinking. I suspect that this quote was taken out of context. Please let me know where this quote can be found.
Quote from: "Solitary"Look, before I say anything, I am very much aware that you know what relativity means and the math with regards to it. I'm also aware that you are smarter than the average person. It does mean everything we measure is an illusion, and that what actual reality is we can't know. But this is getting into the philosophy of science. Solitary. I'll get back on the quote.
When we measure muons from cosmic rays, and their half-lives are longer than those produced in lab, and the differences can be accounted by Relativity, that is real, not an illusion.
Quote from: "josephpalazzo"Quote from: "Solitary"Einstein Quote: "But the question remains: Is it true that moving clocks really slow down, or is it just an illusion? Is it like two people viewing each other at distance, both having the impression that the other is smaller, while they are equally tall in reality?
Solitary
Quote from: "josephpalazzo"Then in that case, everything we measure would be an illusion, and all of reality would be an illusion. I doubt this is the basis of Einstein thinking. I suspect that this quote was taken out of context. Please let me know where this quote can be found.
Quote from: "Solitary"Look, before I say anything, I am very much aware that you know what relativity means and the math with regards to it. I'm also aware that you are smarter than the average person. It does mean everything we measure is an illusion, and that what actual reality is we can't know. But this is getting into the philosophy of science. Solitary. I'll get back on the quote.
When we measure muons from cosmic rays, and their half-lives are longer than those produced in lab, and the differences can be accounted by Relativity, that is real, not an illusion.
I agree with you, but what is real is the measurement, not necessarily the time itself. A thought experiment: If you were riding on a muon your clock would measure a different time that would be longer according to relativity because the faster an object goes time slows down, thus it's half life would be longer as measured, and if you were watching the clock of the observer of the muon the observers clock would show the speed and half life of the muon as being longer as produced in the lab by measurement.
This is the whole point of Special relativity, time is different as "measured" by different observers. This is why Einstein said: " The answer can only be: Yes, it is an illusion. A Stubbornly Persistent Illusion in the words of Einstein. He's talking about measurement being real as you say, but that it is an illusion to think they actually do. Am I wrong on this? Sorry, I couldn't find where I got the quote from. I don't see logically how objects can actually show different times that are real, but I can see how their measurement of different time are real though. I think its time to move on and disagree, don't you? Solitary
Quote from: "Solitary"Quote from: "josephpalazzo"Quote from: "Solitary"Einstein Quote: "But the question remains: Is it true that moving clocks really slow down, or is it just an illusion? Is it like two people viewing each other at distance, both having the impression that the other is smaller, while they are equally tall in reality?
Solitary
Quote from: "josephpalazzo"Then in that case, everything we measure would be an illusion, and all of reality would be an illusion. I doubt this is the basis of Einstein thinking. I suspect that this quote was taken out of context. Please let me know where this quote can be found.
Quote from: "Solitary"Look, before I say anything, I am very much aware that you know what relativity means and the math with regards to it. I'm also aware that you are smarter than the average person. It does mean everything we measure is an illusion, and that what actual reality is we can't know. But this is getting into the philosophy of science. Solitary. I'll get back on the quote.
When we measure muons from cosmic rays, and their half-lives are longer than those produced in lab, and the differences can be accounted by Relativity, that is real, not an illusion.
I agree with you, but what is real is the measurement, not necessarily the time itself. A thought experiment: If you were riding on a muon your clock would measure a different time that would be longer according to relativity because the faster an object goes time slows down, thus it's half life would be longer as measured, and if you were watching the clock of the observer of the muon the observers clock would show the speed and half life of the muon as being longer as produced in the lab by measurement.
This is the whole point of Special relativity, time is different as "measured" by different observers. This is why Einstein said: " The answer can only be: Yes, it is an illusion. A Stubbornly Persistent Illusion in the words of Einstein. He's talking about measurement being real as you say, but that it is an illusion to think they actually do. Am I wrong on this? Sorry, I couldn't find where I got the quote from. I don't see logically how objects can actually show different times that are real, but I can see how their measurement of different time are real though. I think its time to move on and disagree, don't you? Solitary
If the half-life of a muon is longer, and this result is in accordance with Relativity, then it means that Relativity is the correct theory. A measurement is real, and why would that be an illusion as if this is a magic trick? Your conclusion doesn't make sense. As I said before if you conclude that this is an illusion then everything else is an illusion. If not, then you're not consistent.
I don't like to copy and paste from the internet unless I'm not believed and have no other way to show I'm correct.
I never said the theory was wrong. And I never said the "measurement" was wrong.
What I said was that a clock on a muon would show a different time than on a clock that measured its time in a lab.
As I said above I don't like having to do this, but this is from the internet with references who agree with me:
Muon lifetime
A comparison of muon lifetimes at different speeds is possible. In the laboratory, slow muons are produced, and in the atmosphere very fast moving muons are introduced by cosmic rays. Taking the muon lifetime at rest as the laboratory value of 2.22 ?s, the lifetime of a cosmic ray produced muon traveling at 98% of the speed of light is about five times longer, in agreement with observations. In this experiment the "clock" is the time taken by processes leading to muon decay, and these processes take place in the moving muon at its own "clock rate", which is much slower than the laboratory clock.
This is what I said and you disagree with it"
What more can I do?
QuoteIf you were riding on a muon your clock would measure a different time that would be longer according to relativity because the faster an object goes time slows down, thus it's half life would be longer as measured, and if you were watching the clock of the observer of the muon the observers clock would show the speed and half life of the muon as being longer as produced in the lab by measurement.
References
^ a b c Ashby, Neil (January 2003). "Relativity in the Global Positioning System". Living Rev. Relativity 6: page 16. doi:10.12942/lrr-2003-1.
^ HowStuffWorks.com, Jessika Toothman, "How Do Humans age in space?", accessed April 24 2012
^ a b spaceflight.nasa.gov, letters from expedition 7 – Ed's musings from space, "Relativity", accessed april 24 2012.
^ For sources on special relativistic time dilation, see Albert Einstein's own popular exposition, published in English translation (1920) as "Relativity: The Special and General Theory", especially at "8: On the Idea of Time in Physics", and in following sections 9–12. See also the articles Special relativity, Lorentz transformation and Relativity of simultaneity.
^ Cassidy, David C.; Holton, Gerald James; Rutherford, Floyd James (2002). Understanding Physics. Springer-Verlag New York, Inc. ISBN 0-387-98756-8, Chapter 9 §9.6, p. 422
^ Cutner, Mark Leslie (2003). Astronomy, A Physical Perspective. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-82196-7, Chapter 7 §7.2, p. 128
^ Lerner, Lawrence S. (1996). Physics for Scientists and Engineers, Volume 2. Jones and Bertlett Publishers, Inc. ISBN 0-7637-0460-1, Chapter 38 §38.4, p. 1051,1052
^ Ellis, George F. R.; Williams, Ruth M. (2000). Flat and Curved Space-times, Second Edition. Oxford University Press Inc, New York. ISBN 0-19-850657-0, Chapter 3 §1.3, p. 28-29
^ Adams, Steve (1997). Relativity: an introduction to space-time physics. CRC Press. p. 54. ISBN 0-7484-0621-2, Section 2.5, page 54
^ Ashby, Neil (May 2002). "Relativity in the Global Positioning System". Physics Today 55.5: page 45.
^ See T D Moyer (1981a), "Transformation from proper time on Earth to coordinate time in solar system barycentric space-time frame of reference", Celestial Mechanics 23 (1981) pp. 33–56, equations 2 & 3 at pp. 35–6 combined here and divided throughout by c2.
^ A version of the same relationship can also be seen in Neil Ashby (2002), "Relativity and the Global Positioning System", Physics Today (May 2002), at equation (2).
^ Blaszczak, Z (2007). Laser 2006. Springer. p. 59. ISBN 3540711139., Extract of page 59
^ Hasselkamp, D.; Mondry, E.; Scharmann, A. (1979). "Direct observation of the transversal Doppler-shift". Zeitschrift fur Physik a Atoms and Nuclei 289 (2): 151–155. Bibcode:1979ZPhyA.289..151H. doi:10.1007/BF01435932.
^ a b Chou, C.W.; Hume, D.B.; Rosenband, T.; Wineland, D.J. (2010). "Optical Clocks and Relativity". Science 329 (5999): 1630–1633. Bibcode:2010Sci...329.1630C. doi:10.1126/science.1192720. PMID 20929843.
^ http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... irtim.html (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/relativ/airtim.html)
^ http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/metromnia_issue18.pdf (http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/metromnia_issue18.pdf)
^ JV Stewart (2001). Intermediate electromagnetic theory. Singapore: World Scientific. p. 705. ISBN 981-02-4470-3
^ http://science.howstuffworks.com/humans ... -space.htm (http://science.howstuffworks.com/humans-age-in-space.htm)
^ Calder, Nigel (2006). Magic universe: a grand tour of modern science. Oxford University Press. p. 378. ISBN 0-19-280669-6., Extract of page 378
^ See equations (3), (4), (6), (9) of Iorio, Lorenzo (27-Jun-2004). "An analytical treatment of the Clock Paradox in the framework of the Special and General Theories of Relativity". Foundations of Physics Letters 18: 1–19. arXiv:physics/0405038. doi:10.1007/s10702-005-2466-8.
[spoil:2iw2jlnv]
Quote from: "Solitary"I don't like to copy and paste from the internet unless I'm not believed and have no other way to show I'm correct.
I never said the theory was wrong. And I never said the "measurement" was wrong.
What I said was that a clock on a muon would show a different time than on a clock that measured its time in a lab.
As I said above I don't like having to do this, but this is from the internet with references who agree with me:
Muon lifetime
A comparison of muon lifetimes at different speeds is possible. In the laboratory, slow muons are produced, and in the atmosphere very fast moving muons are introduced by cosmic rays. Taking the muon lifetime at rest as the laboratory value of 2.22 ?s, the lifetime of a cosmic ray produced muon traveling at 98% of the speed of light is about five times longer, in agreement with observations. In this experiment the "clock" is the time taken by processes leading to muon decay, and these processes take place in the moving muon at its own "clock rate", which is much slower than the laboratory clock.
This is what I said and you disagree with it"
What more can I do? QuoteIf you were riding on a muon your clock would measure a different time that would be longer according to relativity because the faster an object goes time slows down, thus it's half life would be longer as measured, and if you were watching the clock of the observer of the muon the observers clock would show the speed and half life of the muon as being longer as produced in the lab by measurement.
References
^ a b c Ashby, Neil (January 2003). "Relativity in the Global Positioning System". Living Rev. Relativity 6: page 16. doi:10.12942/lrr-2003-1.
^ HowStuffWorks.com, Jessika Toothman, "How Do Humans age in space?", accessed April 24 2012
^ a b spaceflight.nasa.gov, letters from expedition 7 – Ed's musings from space, "Relativity", accessed april 24 2012.
^ For sources on special relativistic time dilation, see Albert Einstein's own popular exposition, published in English translation (1920) as "Relativity: The Special and General Theory", especially at "8: On the Idea of Time in Physics", and in following sections 9–12. See also the articles Special relativity, Lorentz transformation and Relativity of simultaneity.
^ Cassidy, David C.; Holton, Gerald James; Rutherford, Floyd James (2002). Understanding Physics. Springer-Verlag New York, Inc. ISBN 0-387-98756-8, Chapter 9 §9.6, p. 422
^ Cutner, Mark Leslie (2003). Astronomy, A Physical Perspective. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-82196-7, Chapter 7 §7.2, p. 128
^ Lerner, Lawrence S. (1996). Physics for Scientists and Engineers, Volume 2. Jones and Bertlett Publishers, Inc. ISBN 0-7637-0460-1, Chapter 38 §38.4, p. 1051,1052
^ Ellis, George F. R.; Williams, Ruth M. (2000). Flat and Curved Space-times, Second Edition. Oxford University Press Inc, New York. ISBN 0-19-850657-0, Chapter 3 §1.3, p. 28-29
^ Adams, Steve (1997). Relativity: an introduction to space-time physics. CRC Press. p. 54. ISBN 0-7484-0621-2, Section 2.5, page 54
^ Ashby, Neil (May 2002). "Relativity in the Global Positioning System". Physics Today 55.5: page 45.
^ See T D Moyer (1981a), "Transformation from proper time on Earth to coordinate time in solar system barycentric space-time frame of reference", Celestial Mechanics 23 (1981) pp. 33–56, equations 2 & 3 at pp. 35–6 combined here and divided throughout by c2.
^ A version of the same relationship can also be seen in Neil Ashby (2002), "Relativity and the Global Positioning System", Physics Today (May 2002), at equation (2).
^ Blaszczak, Z (2007). Laser 2006. Springer. p. 59. ISBN 3540711139., Extract of page 59
^ Hasselkamp, D.; Mondry, E.; Scharmann, A. (1979). "Direct observation of the transversal Doppler-shift". Zeitschrift fur Physik a Atoms and Nuclei 289 (2): 151–155. Bibcode:1979ZPhyA.289..151H. doi:10.1007/BF01435932.
^ a b Chou, C.W.; Hume, D.B.; Rosenband, T.; Wineland, D.J. (2010). "Optical Clocks and Relativity". Science 329 (5999): 1630–1633. Bibcode:2010Sci...329.1630C. doi:10.1126/science.1192720. PMID 20929843.
^ http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... irtim.html (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/relativ/airtim.html)
^ http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/metromnia_issue18.pdf (http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/metromnia_issue18.pdf)
^ JV Stewart (2001). Intermediate electromagnetic theory. Singapore: World Scientific. p. 705. ISBN 981-02-4470-3
^ http://science.howstuffworks.com/humans ... -space.htm (http://science.howstuffworks.com/humans-age-in-space.htm)
^ Calder, Nigel (2006). Magic universe: a grand tour of modern science. Oxford University Press. p. 378. ISBN 0-19-280669-6., Extract of page 378
^ See equations (3), (4), (6), (9) of Iorio, Lorenzo (27-Jun-2004). "An analytical treatment of the Clock Paradox in the framework of the Special and General Theories of Relativity". Foundations of Physics Letters 18: 1–19. arXiv:physics/0405038. doi:10.1007/s10702-005-2466-8.
[/spoil:2iw2jlnv]
Source (//http://www.answers.com/topic/time-dilation)
Edit: Formatting.
Quote from: "Jason78"[spoil:nmoy9lqu]Quote from: "Solitary"I don't like to copy and paste from the internet unless I'm not believed and have no other way to show I'm correct.
I never said the theory was wrong. And I never said the "measurement" was wrong.
What I said was that a clock on a muon would show a different time than on a clock that measured its time in a lab.
As I said above I don't like having to do this, but this is from the internet with references who agree with me:
Muon lifetime
A comparison of muon lifetimes at different speeds is possible. In the laboratory, slow muons are produced, and in the atmosphere very fast moving muons are introduced by cosmic rays. Taking the muon lifetime at rest as the laboratory value of 2.22 ?s, the lifetime of a cosmic ray produced muon traveling at 98% of the speed of light is about five times longer, in agreement with observations. In this experiment the "clock" is the time taken by processes leading to muon decay, and these processes take place in the moving muon at its own "clock rate", which is much slower than the laboratory clock.
This is what I said and you disagree with it"
What more can I do? QuoteIf you were riding on a muon your clock would measure a different time that would be longer according to relativity because the faster an object goes time slows down, thus it's half life would be longer as measured, and if you were watching the clock of the observer of the muon the observers clock would show the speed and half life of the muon as being longer as produced in the lab by measurement.
^ a b c Ashby, Neil (January 2003). "Relativity in the Global Positioning System". Living Rev. Relativity 6: page 16. doi:10.12942/lrr-2003-1.
^ HowStuffWorks.com, Jessika Toothman, "How Do Humans age in space?", accessed April 24 2012
^ a b spaceflight.nasa.gov, letters from expedition 7 – Ed's musings from space, "Relativity", accessed april 24 2012.
^ For sources on special relativistic time dilation, see Albert Einstein's own popular exposition, published in English translation (1920) as "Relativity: The Special and General Theory", especially at "8: On the Idea of Time in Physics", and in following sections 9–12. See also the articles Special relativity, Lorentz transformation and Relativity of simultaneity.
^ Cassidy, David C.; Holton, Gerald James; Rutherford, Floyd James (2002). Understanding Physics. Springer-Verlag New York, Inc. ISBN 0-387-98756-8, Chapter 9 §9.6, p. 422
^ Cutner, Mark Leslie (2003). Astronomy, A Physical Perspective. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-82196-7, Chapter 7 §7.2, p. 128
^ Lerner, Lawrence S. (1996). Physics for Scientists and Engineers, Volume 2. Jones and Bertlett Publishers, Inc. ISBN 0-7637-0460-1, Chapter 38 §38.4, p. 1051,1052
^ Ellis, George F. R.; Williams, Ruth M. (2000). Flat and Curved Space-times, Second Edition. Oxford University Press Inc, New York. ISBN 0-19-850657-0, Chapter 3 §1.3, p. 28-29
^ Adams, Steve (1997). Relativity: an introduction to space-time physics. CRC Press. p. 54. ISBN 0-7484-0621-2, Section 2.5, page 54
^ Ashby, Neil (May 2002). "Relativity in the Global Positioning System". Physics Today 55.5: page 45.
^ See T D Moyer (1981a), "Transformation from proper time on Earth to coordinate time in solar system barycentric space-time frame of reference", Celestial Mechanics 23 (1981) pp. 33–56, equations 2 & 3 at pp. 35–6 combined here and divided throughout by c2.
^ A version of the same relationship can also be seen in Neil Ashby (2002), "Relativity and the Global Positioning System", Physics Today (May 2002), at equation (2).
^ Blaszczak, Z (2007). Laser 2006. Springer. p. 59. ISBN 3540711139., Extract of page 59
^ Hasselkamp, D.; Mondry, E.; Scharmann, A. (1979). "Direct observation of the transversal Doppler-shift". Zeitschrift fur Physik a Atoms and Nuclei 289 (2): 151–155. Bibcode:1979ZPhyA.289..151H. doi:10.1007/BF01435932.
^ a b Chou, C.W.; Hume, D.B.; Rosenband, T.; Wineland, D.J. (2010). "Optical Clocks and Relativity". Science 329 (5999): 1630–1633. Bibcode:2010Sci...329.1630C. doi:10.1126/science.1192720. PMID 20929843.
^ http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... irtim.html (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/relativ/airtim.html)
^ http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/metromnia_issue18.pdf (http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/metromnia_issue18.pdf)
^ JV Stewart (2001). Intermediate electromagnetic theory. Singapore: World Scientific. p. 705. ISBN 981-02-4470-3
^ http://science.howstuffworks.com/humans ... -space.htm (http://science.howstuffworks.com/humans-age-in-space.htm)
^ Calder, Nigel (2006). Magic universe: a grand tour of modern science. Oxford University Press. p. 378. ISBN 0-19-280669-6., Extract of page 378
^ See equations (3), (4), (6), (9) of Iorio, Lorenzo (27-Jun-2004). "An analytical treatment of the Clock Paradox in the framework of the Special and General Theories of Relativity". Foundations of Physics Letters 18: 1–19. arXiv:physics/0405038. doi:10.1007/s10702-005-2466-8.
[/spoil:nmoy9lqu]
Source (//http://www.answers.com/topic/time-dilation)
Edit: Formatting.
References
^ a b c Ashby, Neil (January 2003). "Relativity in the Global Positioning System". Living Rev. Relativity 6: page 16. doi:10.12942/lrr-2003-1.
^ HowStuffWorks.com, Jessika Toothman, "How Do Humans age in space?", accessed April 24 2012
^ a b spaceflight.nasa.gov, letters from expedition 7 – Ed's musings from space, "Relativity", accessed april 24 2012.
^ For sources on special relativistic time dilation, see Albert Einstein's own popular exposition, published in English translation (1920) as "Relativity: The Special and General Theory", especially at "8: On the Idea of Time in Physics", and in following sections 9–12. See also the articles Special relativity, Lorentz transformation and Relativity of simultaneity.
^ Cassidy, David C.; Holton, Gerald James; Rutherford, Floyd James (2002). Understanding Physics. Springer-Verlag New York, Inc. ISBN 0-387-98756-8, Chapter 9 §9.6, p. 422
^ Cutner, Mark Leslie (2003). Astronomy, A Physical Perspective. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-82196-7, Chapter 7 §7.2, p. 128
^ Lerner, Lawrence S. (1996). Physics for Scientists and Engineers, Volume 2. Jones and Bertlett Publishers, Inc. ISBN 0-7637-0460-1, Chapter 38 §38.4, p. 1051,1052
^ Ellis, George F. R.; Williams, Ruth M. (2000). Flat and Curved Space-times, Second Edition. Oxford University Press Inc, New York. ISBN 0-19-850657-0, Chapter 3 §1.3, p. 28-29
^ Adams, Steve (1997). Relativity: an introduction to space-time physics. CRC Press. p. 54. ISBN 0-7484-0621-2, Section 2.5, page 54
^ Ashby, Neil (May 2002). "Relativity in the Global Positioning System". Physics Today 55.5: page 45.
^ See T D Moyer (1981a), "Transformation from proper time on Earth to coordinate time in solar system barycentric space-time frame of reference", Celestial Mechanics 23 (1981) pp. 33–56, equations 2 & 3 at pp. 35–6 combined here and divided throughout by c2.
^ A version of the same relationship can also be seen in Neil Ashby (2002), "Relativity and the Global Positioning System", Physics Today (May 2002), at equation (2).
^ Blaszczak, Z (2007). Laser 2006. Springer. p. 59. ISBN 3540711139., Extract of page 59
^ Hasselkamp, D.; Mondry, E.; Scharmann, A. (1979). "Direct observation of the transversal Doppler-shift". Zeitschrift fur Physik a Atoms and Nuclei 289 (2): 151–155. Bibcode:1979ZPhyA.289..151H. doi:10.1007/BF01435932.
^ a b Chou, C.W.; Hume, D.B.; Rosenband, T.; Wineland, D.J. (2010). "Optical Clocks and Relativity". Science 329 (5999): 1630–1633. Bibcode:2010Sci...329.1630C. doi:10.1126/science.1192720. PMID 20929843.
^ http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb) ... irtim.html
^ http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/metromnia_issue18.pdf (http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/metromnia_issue18.pdf)
^ JV Stewart (2001). Intermediate electromagnetic theory. Singapore: World Scientific. p. 705. ISBN 981-02-4470-3
^ http://science.howstuffworks.com/humans (http://science.howstuffworks.com/humans) ... -space.htm
^ Calder, Nigel (2006). Magic universe: a grand tour of modern science. Oxford University Press. p. 378. ISBN 0-19-280669-6., Extract of page 378
^ See equations (3), (4), (6), (9) of Iorio, Lorenzo (27-Jun-2004). "An analytical treatment of the Clock Paradox in the framework of the Special and General Theories of Relativity". Foundations of Physics Letters 18: 1–19. arXiv:physics/0405038. doi:10.1007/s10702-005-2466-8.
Quote from: "Solitary"References
The fact that an article has relevant references (not all references are relevant - or even valid) doesn't automatically mean that the author understood the references he used. About.com and similar sites are VERY poor references for scientific matters.
Quote from: "Solitary"I don't like to copy and paste from the internet unless I'm not believed and have no other way to show I'm correct.
I never said the theory was wrong. And I never said the "measurement" was wrong.
What I said was that a clock on a muon would show a different time than on a clock that measured its time in a lab.
As I said above I don't like having to do this, but this is from the internet with references who agree with me:
Muon lifetime
A comparison of muon lifetimes at different speeds is possible. In the laboratory, slow muons are produced, and in the atmosphere very fast moving muons are introduced by cosmic rays. Taking the muon lifetime at rest as the laboratory value of 2.22 ?s, the lifetime of a cosmic ray produced muon traveling at 98% of the speed of light is about five times longer, in agreement with observations. In this experiment the "clock" is the time taken by processes leading to muon decay, and these processes take place in the moving muon at its own "clock rate", which is much slower than the laboratory clock.
This is what I said and you disagree with it"
What more can I do? QuoteIf you were riding on a muon your clock would measure a different time that would be longer according to relativity because the faster an object goes time slows down, thus it's half life would be longer as measured, and if you were watching the clock of the observer of the muon the observers clock would show the speed and half life of the muon as being longer as produced in the lab by measurement.
That's not what was in contention. What was in contention is your belief that it was an
illusion. You wrote:
This is why Einstein said: " The answer can only be: Yes, it is an illusion. A Stubbornly Persistent Illusion in the words of Einstein. He's talking about measurement being real as you say, but that it is an illusion to think they actually do. You didn't answer my objection to that. Go back and read it.
Quote from: "josephpalazzo"Quote from: "Solitary"I don't like to copy and paste from the internet unless I'm not believed and have no other way to show I'm correct.
I never said the theory was wrong. And I never said the "measurement" was wrong.
What I said was that a clock on a muon would show a different time than on a clock that measured its time in a lab.
As I said above I don't like having to do this, but this is from the internet with references who agree with me:
Muon lifetime
A comparison of muon lifetimes at different speeds is possible. In the laboratory, slow muons are produced, and in the atmosphere very fast moving muons are introduced by cosmic rays. Taking the muon lifetime at rest as the laboratory value of 2.22 ?s, the lifetime of a cosmic ray produced muon traveling at 98% of the speed of light is about five times longer, in agreement with observations. In this experiment the "clock" is the time taken by processes leading to muon decay, and these processes take place in the moving muon at its own "clock rate", which is much slower than the laboratory clock.
This is what I said and you disagree with it"
What more can I do? QuoteIf you were riding on a muon your clock would measure a different time that would be longer according to relativity because the faster an object goes time slows down, thus it's half life would be longer as measured, and if you were watching the clock of the observer of the muon the observers clock would show the speed and half life of the muon as being longer as produced in the lab by measurement.
That's not what was in contention. What was in contention is your belief that it was an illusion. You wrote: This is why Einstein said: " The answer can only be: Yes, it is an illusion. A Stubbornly Persistent Illusion in the words of Einstein. He's talking about measurement being real as you say, but that it is an illusion to think they actually do. You didn't answer my objection to that. Go back and read it.
Whatever!