A big issue I've encountered in Christian apologetics is the practice of apologists of accusing skeptics of ignorance of the Bible. So let's see if apologists are correct. I've compiled a short quiz to see how much you know. Please answer the questions to the best of your ability without looking up the answers, and please do not look at any other posted answers until you've posted your own final answers. Note that none of these questions are meant to be "trick" questions, and I've made an effort to avoid sectarian disputes regarding Biblical interpretation and passages that are cryptic or ambiguous.
Good luck! If you know the answers, then you know as much as I do about the Bible.
1. Who proclaimed the universality of his message by writing: "I have become all things to all men"?
2. Name the four gospels.
3. What are the first five books of the Bible collectively referred to as?
4. After the death of Moses, who took over for him?
5. Who wrote the Book of Revelation?
6. The phrase "the valley of the shadow of death" appears in which Psalm?
7. "God helps those who help themselves" appears in the Bible. True or false?
8. The New Testament describes Christ as "a man of sorrows acquainted with grief." True or false?
9. Pharoah refused to let the Hebrews go because of his own pride and stubbornness. True or false?
10. Who was the first king of Israel?
11. The New Testament was originally written in Hebrew. True or False?
12. Who was sold into slavery by his brothers?
13. Joseph was told by an angel who appeared to him by day that Mary was pregnant by the Holy Spirit. True or False?
14. Who had Jesus buried in his tomb?
15. The kings of Israel were messiahs. True or false?
16. Paul mentions a "James, the brother of Jesus." True or false?
17. Which king of Israel prior to his being anointed was almost killed by another king of Israel?
18. Jesus granted his apostles the power to retain the sins of others. True or false?
19. Noah and his family spent a total of forty days and nights on the ark. True or false?
20. The Acts of the Apostles describes the circumstances under which Saul's name was changed to Paul and why his name was changed. True or false?
You do realize, don't you, that the bible is a work of fiction. Why would I care how long Noah was on the ark? It is fictional. It's like making up a trivia test based on Bugs Bunny or Pecos Bill or Paul Bunyan. Who cares???????
Hmmmm..................think of the fun of figuring out where Bugs was born and things about his early life and adulthood. We could interview Elmer Fudd to discern the facts of his birth and things he did as a little rabbit.
Long list. I read the Bible in the original languages, as ancient literature. Literature isn't a true/false or even multiple choice test. Some people prefer Dracula by Bram Stoker (Happy Halloween). You can avoid Christians perhaps (communion), by wearing garlic ;-)
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 12:33:31 PM1. Who proclaimed the universality of his message by writing: "I have become all things to all men"?
I believe that was Paul (formerly Saul). He's basically saying that he is trying to be relatable.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 12:33:31 PM2. Name the four gospels.
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 12:33:31 PM3. What are the first five books of the Bible collectively referred to as?
The Torah.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 12:33:31 PM4. After the death of Moses, who took over for him?
Aaron.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 12:33:31 PM5. Who wrote the Book of Revelation?
I don't believe there's a consensus on that. I believe his name was John, but which John it is is up to debate, I believe.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 12:33:31 PM6. The phrase "the valley of the shadow of death" appears in which Psalm?
I don't fucking know. lol. I always hated memorizing the locations of verses.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 12:33:31 PM7. "God helps those who help themselves" appears in the Bible. True or false?
False.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 12:33:31 PM8. The New Testament describes Christ as "a man of sorrows acquainted with grief." True or false?
I believe so. IIRC, it's referencing an Old Testament verse.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 12:33:31 PM9. Pharoah refused to let the Hebrews go because of his own pride and stubbornness. True or false?
Ha. Most Christians can read the verse and still get it wrong. False. The pharaoh refused to let the Hebrews go because God hardened his heart. So much for free will, huh?
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 12:33:31 PM10. Who was the first king of Israel?
Ah, shit. What was his name? Was it Saul? I think it was Saul. He didn't last long before David took over.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 12:33:31 PM11. The New Testament was originally written in Hebrew. True or False?
Depends on which books you're talking about. I believe they were written in three different languages. Mainly Greek. So I guess false.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 12:33:31 PM12. Who was sold into slavery by his brothers?
Joseph. They were jealous he was the favorite child, and he was having dreams about ruling over the rest of them. He was kind of a dick.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 12:33:31 PM13. Joseph was told by an angel who appeared to him by day that Mary was pregnant by the Holy Spirit. True or False?
By day? No. It was in a dream.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 12:33:31 PM14. Who had Jesus buried in his tomb?
Goddamn it. What was his name? He kind of just showed up out of nowhere to offer the tomb. Kinda sus, actually. Almost like the author realized they needed to get a homeless man into a tomb but neglected to introduce this character earlier. I'll be kicking myself later for forgetting his name.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 12:33:31 PM15. The kings of Israel were messiahs. True or false?
Uhh. False? Never heard it suggested that they were before.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 12:33:31 PM16. Paul mentions a "James, the brother of Jesus." True or false?
Can't remember if Paul specifically mentions him, but he was definitely in the New Testament. It's debated how literal that title was. Many assume (wrongly) that Jesus was an only child, but I kinda doubt his literal brother actually wrote the book of James. I'll say it's true.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 12:33:31 PM17. Which king of Israel prior to his being anointed was almost killed by another king of Israel?
David. He almost got impaled. He was getting too popular, so Saul was getting jelly.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 12:33:31 PM18. Jesus granted his apostles the power to retain the sins of others. True or false?
What? This sounds like some D&D shit. False.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 12:33:31 PM19. Noah and his family spent a total of forty days and nights on the ark. True or false?
False. That's a common misconception. But the Bible was very confusing with how it number its days, so...
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 12:33:31 PM20. The Acts of the Apostles describes the circumstances under which Saul's name was changed to Paul and why his name was changed. True or false?
True. But I think that was described in two different places, with slightly different details.
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 18, 2020, 07:18:17 PMWhat? This sounds like some D&D shit.
Hey now, Christianity is nothing like D&D. You just have a divine spellcaster who can cast create food, transmute water into wine, cast waterwalk, attacked some merchant NPCs because he was mad, cursed a plant for some reason, got betrayed by a someone in his party, got put on trial, and got raised from the dead without explanation.
...
Okay, so it's a lot like D&D.
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 18, 2020, 07:18:17 PMQuoteAfter the death of Moses, who took over for him?
Aaron.
The correct answer is Joshua. Aaron worked for Moses while Moses yet lived.
QuoteQuoteThe phrase "the valley of the shadow of death" appears in which Psalm?
I don't fucking know. lol. I always hated memorizing the locations of verses.
The correct answer is Psalm 23. I thought it was a famous Psalm.
QuoteQuoteThe New Testament describes Christ as "a man of sorrows acquainted with grief." True or false?
I believe so.
It was taken from Isaiah 53.
QuoteQuoteWho had Jesus buried in his tomb?
Goddamn it. What was his name?
It was Joseph of Arimathea.
QuoteQuoteThe kings of Israel were messiahs. True or false?
Uhh. False? Never heard it suggested that they were before.
True. The kings of Israel were anointed hence they were messiahs. Messiah means "anointed one."
QuoteQuotePaul mentions a "James, the brother of Jesus." True or false?
Can't remember if Paul specifically mentions him...
Paul never mentions a brother of Jesus. He does refer to a "James, the brother of the Lord."
QuoteQuoteJesus granted his apostles the power to retain the sins of others. True or false?
What? This sounds like some D&D shit. False.
It's true!
QuoteQuoteThe Acts of the Apostles describes the circumstances under which Saul's name was changed to Paul and why his name was changed. True or false?
True.
False. Acts changes the name without a reason why.
Your final score is 12/20 =
60%
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 09:58:35 PMThe correct answer is Psalm 23. I thought it was a famous Psalm.
It is, and I know the verse. I've never been good with numbers, dates, and that kinda thing. History was the one subject I struggled with in school for that reason.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 09:58:35 PMIt was taken from Isaiah 53.
You sneaky bastard. Isaiah 53 was refenced multiple times in the New Testament. You picked the one verse they skipped.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 09:58:35 PMIt was Joseph of Arimathea.
Ah. I should have gone with my gut. I was thinking Joseph, but I was like, "Nah. That's his dad's name." I had that Arimathea part in my head too.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 09:58:35 PMPaul never mentions a brother of Jesus. He does refer to a "James, the brother of the Lord."
Oh, come on. Who do you think the "Lord" is he was referring to? I thought you said no trick questions.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 09:58:35 PMIt's true!
Where?
Edit: Oh, FFS. I Googled it.
"If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." (John 20:23)
Why didn't you just say "forgive sins" instead of "retain sins?" That makes it sound like they're taking their sins upon themselves. The important part is that they can forgive sins, or choose not to (retaining being the latter). Another trick question I would have gotten right, if you weren't trying to be sneaky. BTW, the word "retain" is only used in some translations. The NIV words it better:
"If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 09:58:35 PMFalse. Acts changes the name without a reason why.
Umm. Excuse me? Acts 9 would like a word. It describes the Road to Damascus, his conversion story. That was the reason he changed his name.
Quote from: Jagella on October 18, 2020, 09:58:35 PMYour final score is 12/20 = 60%
15/20 (75%), adjusting for bullshit.
The whole thread...lol.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 19, 2020, 04:57:17 AM
The whole thread...lol.
LOL ! I remember when I was a Catholic, there was some sort of argument about Jonah. Did he spend three days and three nights in the belly of a whale or was it a fish?
Quote from: Cassia on October 19, 2020, 06:50:04 AM
LOL ! I remember when I was a Catholic, there was some sort of argument about Jonah. Did he spend three days and three nights in the belly of a whale or was it a fish?
Behemoth and Leviathan are mythical creatures. One could deduce that Leviathan is implied. Part of extra-Biblical literature. Leviathan is the main course at the messianic banquet at the end times, not the sentient steer at The Café At The End Of The Universe, with the delayed messiah. Though this is derivative of Canaanite and Babylonian stories.
Quote6. The phrase "the valley of the shadow of death" appears in which Psalm?
I can't remember where or why I had to memorize this Psalm, probably in my Lutheran confirmation. It may have been part of our weekly ritual to say it in church, but at one time, I knew the 23rd Psalm like the psalm of my hand (yuk, yuk). I think it's the most famous Psalm. The 23rd? What?! You mean there are other Psalms? I never read them, but why did we memorize the one that's fucking down at number 23 on the list? I tried reciting it just now, and I couldn't remember the first sentence, just fragments of the whole that are disconnected. Oh wait! The first sentence is the test question: "Yea that I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil." It's coming back now. <Curses!> I don't want that in my head again.
Read all of the Psalms in the original Hebrew ;-) Psalm 23 is a Christian favorite, because of martyrdom. Psalm 1 is good vs evil ... so that should be an atheist favorite ;-)
@Jagella ... on this OP, the ignorance of Church and Synagogue people about religion, per religion (not materialism) is a constant source of despair. Human beings are mostly ignorant, stupid and foolish. Materialists think they have escaped that condition, but they are deluded by Satan ;-)
I used to have memorized the order of every book in the Bible. I had to study it for Confirmation back when I was Lutheran. But my brain let that useless information go right away. Why bother, when your Bible has tabs labeling every book of the Bible for you? It's not like it's hard to find them. I used to memorize Bible verses too, but the only one I still have completely memorized is John 3:16. I've always (and this is still true) been more interested in the content of the scriptures than where to find them. What does it say? What does it mean? What is the cultural significance? What apologetics do people employ to ignore what the scriptures actually say? That's the stuff that interests me. If I need to find something specific, that's what BibleGateway.com is for.
Quote from: Cassia on October 19, 2020, 06:50:04 AM
LOL ! I remember when I was a Catholic, there was some sort of argument about Jonah. Did he spend three days and three nights in the belly of a whale or was it a fish?
Well, unless I'm mistaken, whales are physically incapable of swallowing a person due to the filters they have in their mouths, designed to catch krill. So that should take whales off of the table. As for surviving in the belly of a fish for that long? I dunno. I think you'd start dissolving after a while, and I don't know how many fish are even capable of swallowing a person whole. So it's clearly a silly, made up story.
What I find really interesting is how out of character God is in that story, considering it was in the Old Testament. Jonah's God actually seems to care about the lives of people, and even animals. Even in the New Testament, God would kill you if you sold your house and pretended to give 100% of it to the church, when you actually kept a little of it.
Well, fraud should be punished by death ... per Communism. Jesus was the first communist/hippie ;-)
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 18, 2020, 11:00:58 PMYou sneaky bastard.
I should have known better than to ask an idiot to take a test.
No.
Quote from: Jagella on October 19, 2020, 05:27:50 PM
I should have known better than to ask an idiot to take a test.
You recollection seems to be failing you. You didn't ask any one person to take the test. I'm just the only one who bothered taking it.
And, BTW, this idea isn't anything new. Studies have been done before, testing the Biblical knowledge of Christians and atheists, and they've found that atheists usually out perform Christians. Mostly because most Christians don't actually read their Bibles. They just go to church to have it spoon fed to them by a pastor who may or may not be taking it out of context and/or misinterpreting it. I wonder how well a Christian would score on your test.
I don't know if you used poor wording or trick questions on purpose, but it seems pretty suspicious.
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 18, 2020, 11:00:58 PMI've never been good with numbers, dates, and that kinda thing.
To be fair, neither were the bible writers. :P
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 19, 2020, 06:09:31 PM
To be fair, neither were the bible writers. :P
Q: Did David's army consist of 30,000 warriors or 200,000 warriors?
A: Yes.
Q: Was Jesus born before or after the reign of Herod?
A: Correct.
Quote from: Cassia on October 19, 2020, 06:50:04 AM
LOL ! I remember when I was a Catholic, there was some sort of argument about Jonah. Did he spend three days and three nights in the belly of a whale or was it a fish?
I think the first time I saw panic in a priest's eyes was when I asked why Judas should have been sent to Hell for betraying Jesus, when without the betrayal, trial and crucifixion there would have been no Christianity â€" therefore Judas if he hadn't, the whole plan for redemption would have fallen apart, so why should he have been punished for doing what was necessary? He genuinely eventually fell back on "it's a mystery".
I think I was ten or thereabouts. I've been a problem for a while. :)
The Last Temptation of Christ and there was a book in the 60s, The Passover Plot ... pretty much explain this.
Quote from: trdsf on October 19, 2020, 06:22:07 PM
I think the first time I saw panic in a priest's eyes was when I asked why Judas should have been sent to Hell for betraying Jesus, when without the betrayal, trial and crucifixion there would have been no Christianity â€" therefore Judas if he hadn't, the whole plan for redemption would have fallen apart, so why should he have been punished for doing what was necessary? He genuinely eventually fell back on "it's a mystery".
I think I was ten or thereabouts. I've been a problem for a while. :)
Plus, this was all a plan and Judas had no choice. It was god's will that Judas do what he did--he could not have acted differently. He should neither be lauded or punished--he had no choice.
Quote from: trdsf on October 19, 2020, 06:22:07 PM
I think the first time I saw panic in a priest's eyes was when I asked why Judas should have been sent to Hell for betraying Jesus, when without the betrayal, trial and crucifixion there would have been no Christianity â€" therefore Judas if he hadn't, the whole plan for redemption would have fallen apart, so why should he have been punished for doing what was necessary? He genuinely eventually fell back on "it's a mystery".
I think I was ten or thereabouts. I've been a problem for a while. :)
And take it one step more...I have heard Christians say they dislike/mistrust the entire Jewish race for the same reason.
The Jews are like the ancient CIA, we made Pilate convict Jesus. bwahaha. Actually Christians are supposed to be pro-Roman Gentiles, hence the controversy about observant Jewish Christians.
Christians are ... Church, not Jesus, not G-d. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but confusion on their part and others, doesn't help. The Church and Jesus never had anything to do with each other, regardless of Peter. And Jesus made a clear distinction between himself and G-d (as a narrative character in religious novellas).
The content of the Gospel of Thomas is older than the Synoptic Gospels, and consistent with the gnosticism of Paul's genuine letters and the theology behind the Gospel of John. It was in reaction to criticism of the gnostic Jesus, and the desire to broaden the Christian appeal, that the Synoptic Gospels were written, and the Gospel of John as a hybrid after that.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 18, 2020, 01:53:21 PM
You do realize, don't you, that the bible is a work of fiction. Why would I care how long Noah was on the ark? It is fictional. It's like making up a trivia test based on Bugs Bunny or Pecos Bill or Paul Bunyan. Who cares???????
Hmmmm..................think of the fun of figuring out where Bugs was born and things about his early life and adulthood. We could interview Elmer Fudd to discern the facts of his birth and things he did as a little rabbit.
You're in a forum called "Christianity," and you don't care about knowing the Bible? That's really strange. Are you sure you're not trolling? What you're saying is really dumb.
I decided long ago that knowing the Bible was the best way to argue with people who believe it to be God's word. I don't often do that, though, except here at the forum.
Quote from: Jagella on October 19, 2020, 08:01:51 PM
You're in a forum called "Christianity," and you don't care about knowing the Bible? That's really strange. Are you sure you're not trolling? What you're saying is really dumb.
And you are on an atheist site. I assume you were looking in a mirror when you used the words 'really dumb.' Yeah, I have read the bible from cover to cover and with the aid of several books used in teaching seminaries. What that demonstrated is that there is no 'the bible', but many of them--hundreds. That nobody has found the autograph of any of them. That the bible can be made to say what you want it to--and like trump, can then say the exact opposite with the expectation of you believing both. It is a collection of writings that offer, cruelty, slaughter of men, women, and children, how to be a dictator, and any number of other repugnant acts. It is a fiction, my friend, plain and simple. It has the validity of using the collected sayings of Bugs Bunny as a guide to your life. (Actually, following Bugs will make one a kinder and gentler person.)
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 19, 2020, 08:35:39 PM
And you are on an atheist site. I assume you were looking in a mirror when you used the words 'really dumb.' Yeah, I have read the bible from cover to cover and with the aid of several books used in teaching seminaries. What that demonstrated is that there is no 'the bible', but many of them--hundreds. That nobody has found the autograph of any of them. That the bible can be made to say what you want it to--and like trump, can then say the exact opposite with the expectation of you believing both. It is a collection of writings that offer, cruelty, slaughter of men, women, and children, how to be a dictator, and any number of other repugnant acts. It is a fiction, my friend, plain and simple. It has the validity of using the collected sayings of Bugs Bunny as a guide to your life. (Actually, following Bugs will make one a kinder and gentler person.)
Daffy and Elmer would disagree ;-)
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 19, 2020, 08:14:24 PM
I decided long ago that knowing the Bible was the best way to argue with people who believe it to be God's word. I don't often do that, though, except here at the forum.
And as the San Francisco Jesus ... you would know that ;-)
Quote from: Jagella on October 19, 2020, 08:01:51 PM
You're in a forum called "Christianity," and you don't care about knowing the Bible? That's really strange. Are you sure you're not trolling? What you're saying is really dumb.
It doesn't take a letter-by-letter knowledge of the bible to be able to demonstrate its contradictions and inaccuracies. I don't want to speak for Mike, but I'd warrant that he has better things to do than memorize the minutiæ of a book of fairy tales. I know I do. If you don't, that's your waste of time, not mine (or, I dare presume, Mike's).
Quote from: trdsf on October 19, 2020, 10:18:13 PM
It doesn't take a letter-by-letter knowledge of the bible to be able to demonstrate its contradictions and inaccuracies. I don't want to speak for Mike, but I'd warrant that he has better things to do than memorize the minutiæ of a book of fairy tales. I know I do. If you don't, that's your waste of time, not mine (or, I dare presume, Mike's).
trdsf--dare away! :))
Sayings of Bugs:
“Ehhhhhh, shut up!â€
“Ehhhh, what’s up doc?â€
“What’s the hassle, Schmasel?â€
“Gin rummy’s my game Samâ€
“Heh, just like Gary Cooper huh?â€
“Ahoooy there! … What’s up doc?â€
“Well, anyone for Russian roulette?â€
“So long Sammy! See you in Miami!â€
“I don’t ask questions, I just have funâ€
‘Ata boy Sambo, give’m both barrels!â€
“Ahhh, your brother blows bubblegum!â€
“Ehhh, what is up, m’sieur le physician?â€
“Poor little maroon, so trusting, so naiveâ€
“Ehhh, so long screwy, see ya in St. Louieâ€
“I can do anything you can do, only betterâ€
“Hey, just a minute you! Them’s fightin’ words!â€
“Hey doc, what’s that song you’re playin’? I like itâ€
“I suppose I’ll have to dispose of the little monsterâ€
“Gee, I couldn’t do that to the little guy … hey Sam!â€
“What! Sore again? Ehhh, what a nasty dispositionâ€
“Well … I’m willing to do anything my public demandsâ€
“Oh no you don’t, the captain goes down with his ship!â€
“Well, like the Romans always say … E pluribus uraniumâ€
“Ain’t ya comin’ in Mac? The girls have been askin’ for yaâ€
“Ehhh, what’s up Doc? You with the sideshow around here?â€
“I’ve heard of Hell’s Angels, but I never thought I’d see oneâ€
“A few of my poor relations … they’re always ready for a touchâ€
“Stop steamin’ up my tail! What are ya tryin’ to do … wrinkle it?â€
“Eh, you wouldn’t be so tough if you weren’t wearin’ that uniformâ€
“Well, what do you know … there’s the little Wiener Schnitzel nowâ€
“Come on, come on, step on it, we’ve still gotta make Rio De Janeirioâ€
“You know, sometimes me conscience bothers me … but not this timeâ€
“It just goes to show ya that a one-eyed jack rabbit can beat a kingâ€
“Hurry, hurry, get your free cigars, every cigar’s a vote for Bugs Bunnyâ€
“Yes, heh heh heh heh, a rabbit, and just who do you think you are?â€
“Oh you’re mistaken Mac, you see I’m not 777174, I’m only three and a halfâ€
“Just a minute partna’, you can’t talk to me like that, them’s fightin’ wordsâ€
“Heh, heh, heh, heh, that Yosemite Sam, what a character, what a maroonâ€
“I assume it would not be too improper to borrow a cup of diced carrots, huh?â€
“Ha! You have insult the great lover, the marquess of Queensbury Rules, take this!â€
“Now just a minute Red, ain’t you got that wrong? You mean, dead men tell no talesâ€
“Is he to be doomed to utter destruction? … Will he be rendered non compos mentis?â€
“Now just a minute Von Schmamm the Hessian, this happens to be me native soil and I like itâ€
“Don’t beat me Masser! Please don’t beat me Masser! Don’t beat that tired old body, no don’t!â€
“Later I found myself in the Sarara desert, where I met the stupidest character of them all, Yosemite Samâ€
You chose--Bugs or Jesus....................
Quote from: trdsf on October 19, 2020, 10:18:13 PMIt doesn't take a letter-by-letter knowledge of the bible to be able to demonstrate its contradictions and inaccuracies. I don't want to speak for Mike, but I'd warrant that he has better things to do than memorize the minutiæ of a book of fairy tales. I know I do. If you don't, that's your waste of time, not mine (or, I dare presume, Mike's).
Bible knowledge is somewhat useful since a lot of fiction and philosophy and politics (even though it shouldn't) draws from it. So a general familiarity is a good idea. But yeah, I can't vouch for the utility of memorizing specific passages and assorted trivia.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 19, 2020, 10:58:52 PM
Sayings of Bugs:
(...)
“Well, like the Romans always say … E pluribus uraniumâ€
(...)
You chose--Bugs or Jesus....................
'Bugs or Jesus?' sounds like an especially weird game show.
Bugs definitely starred in better cartoons. And I'm going to have 'E Pluribus Uranium' mounted on the china cabinet housing my uranium glass collection. :D
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 20, 2020, 02:11:13 AM
Bible knowledge is somewhat useful since a lot of fiction and philosophy and politics (even though it shouldn't) draws from it. So a general familiarity is a good idea. But yeah, I can't vouch for the utility of memorizing specific passages and assorted trivia.
If you are anywhere near Christians, Jews or Muslims, this familiarity is necessary.
@Mike Cl ... not a good effort on your part. You won't have dumb people worshipping you millennia from now unless you do better ;-)
This things are like watching trivia for me. I had to study Christian iconography in the univ which you do with a bible in lectures but that's it, don't remember anything from the texts. Just visually, some traditional scenes. Probably, I started to erase them after the finals 20 years ago back then. Oh gawd they are countless.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 20, 2020, 04:16:12 PM
This things like watching a trivia for me. I had to study Christian iconography in the univ which you do with a bible in lectures but that's it, don't remember anything from text. Just visually some traditional scenes. Probably I started to erase them after the finals 20 years ago back then. Oh gawd they are countless.
Well, your degree wasn't in art history then. Your oblivion of many college courses is familiar to many. I was never good with partial differential equations, and promptly forgot what little I knew after eeking out a C.
As a secular person who leans European, you only have to know socialist culture writings since 1945, right? No need to know what a Mevlevi Sufi is.
Quote from: trdsf on October 19, 2020, 10:18:13 PM
It doesn't take a letter-by-letter knowledge of the bible to be able to demonstrate its contradictions and inaccuracies. I don't want to speak for Mike, but I'd warrant that he has better things to do than memorize the minutiæ of a book of fairy tales. I know I do. If you don't, that's your waste of time, not mine (or, I dare presume, Mike's).
Again, if you want to argue Christian beliefs, then it's very useful to know what those beliefs are and where they came from.
Sheesh--it looks like I underestimated the popularity of ignorance.
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 19, 2020, 06:09:31 PM
To be fair, neither were the bible writers. :P
And how do you know that the Bible writers were not "good with numbers, dates, and that kinda thing" without knowing what the Bible writers wrote? Trust me--actually knowing what you're talking about can be very useful.
The Bible, even for a rabbi, is bottomless in complexity. One can only have a superficial knowledge, even if one tries.
Quote from: Jagella on October 20, 2020, 07:46:53 PM
Again, if you want to argue Christian beliefs, then it's very useful to know what those beliefs are and where they came from.
Sheesh--it looks like I underestimated the popularity of ignorance.
Whoa there. Let some of the air out in that ego of yours.
Quote from: Jagella on October 20, 2020, 07:52:25 PM
And how do you know that the Bible writers were not "good with numbers, dates, and that kinda thing" without knowing what the Bible writers wrote? Trust me--actually knowing what you're talking about can be very useful.
It's a tongue-and-cheek reference to various Bible contradictions, especially numerical contradictions and historical inaccuracies.
And just so you know, I don't have to have the whole thing memorized to know that there's something off just like I don't have to be a shipwright to have a pretty strong hunch that Noah's ark wouldn't have worked.
Two of each animal (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%206:19-20&version=NIV)
Or seven? (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%207%3A2-3%2CGenesis%207%3A5&version=NIV)
Over 1 million soldiers (https://www.biblica.com/bible/?osis=niv:1%20Chronicles%2021:5)
Or maybe 800 grand, same diff (https://www.biblica.com/bible/?osis=niv:2%20Samuel%2024:9)
Eight...or eighteen? (https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/2%20Chronicles%2036:9)
There was a recreation of what an early big Sumerian boat would have been like ... which is where the story comes from, not from Israel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_fkpZSnz2I
People here agree with Plato, we need to follow Plato, and stop reading Homer Simpson ;-) Doh!
Muslims also agree with people here, that poetry is evil, and only factual accounts can be allowed (which is their case happen to be the rather well authenticated Quran).
Quote from: Jagella on October 20, 2020, 07:52:25 PM
And how do you know that the Bible writers were not "good with numbers, dates, and that kinda thing" without knowing what the Bible writers wrote? Trust me--actually knowing what you're talking about can be very useful.
Answering trivia questions about a subject does NOT demonstrate mastery of any subject. Do you wish to talk about who the writers of the bible was; the history of the bible; was jesus fictional or not; high criticism; low criticism--or anything else of substance. I'm up for a discussion, if you are.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 20, 2020, 11:06:06 PM
Answering trivia questions about a subject does NOT demonstrate mastery of any subject. Do you wish to talk about who the writers of the bible was; the history of the bible; was jesus fictional or not; high criticism; low criticism--or anything else of substance. I'm up for a discussion, if you are.
It drives me crazy that people see a name on a book and assume that's the name of the author. Only one of the four Gospels says who wrote it, and that book wasn't written by one of Jesus' disciples. Neither were the other three.
I let a Jehovah Witness in one time, which started a month long series of visitations of Bible thumpers. This was in the last days of my quest to find God, and apparently the Witnesses wanted me bad. Actually, I already knew where I stood on the issue, but it was like giving Christianity one more shot.
This member and that member would stop by to give me their pitch. One time they sent a woman my age who showed up in a new Cadillac. My question was always the same, "How do we know God exists?" That's really the only question that matters. If he doesn't, then the whole religion thing is a waste of energy. If he does, then it may or may not be worth the trouble to dig deeper, but until then, it's pointless. This woman brought her Bible and was ready for me. My main question, and every related question was met with a flutter, more like a flurry, of Bible pages, and each Earth shattering claim began with naming chapter and verse. She had 50 to 100 little bookmarks to aid her. Just keeping track of the bookmarks, was an impressive feat in itself. Collectively, the verses made the case for God and the Bible. One verse showed why the Bible was true, and another showed why the 1st verse was true because the Bible was true. Of course my question could not be answered without the circular reasoning, and necessary apologetics. Throw out logic and it may have meant something to someone, specifically to this woman because she seemed to think it all made perfect sense.
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 21, 2020, 02:56:28 AM
It drives me crazy that people see a name on a book and assume that's the name of the author. Only one of the four Gospels says who wrote it, and that book wasn't written by one of Jesus' disciples. Neither were the other three.
I have the same reaction myself. As I remember it, the only author of any of the bible (both old and new) books is Paul. I think traditionally he is credited with writing 13. Now it seems most think he wrote 6 (with most of those a blend of more than one writing) and 6 by pseudo-Paul writers, and Hebrews who just about everybody agrees he did not write.
Something else that drives me nuts is the most christians think the order of the NT books is in chronological order. If one were to read the NT in chronological order, Paul's works would come first. And if read in that order, it gives a totally different 'feel' to the NT, as opposed to reading it as it is now. I see this as a masterful work of propaganda.
Quote from: SGOS on October 21, 2020, 08:34:18 AM
I let a Jehovah Witness in one time, which started a month long series of visitations of Bible thumpers. This was in the last days of my quest to find God, and apparently the Witnesses wanted me bad. Actually, I already knew where I stood on the issue, but it was like giving Christianity one more shot.
This member and that member would stop by to give me their pitch. One time they sent a woman my age who showed up in a new Cadillac. .......
That reminds me of story a drummer in my band told me. An older JW lady knocked on his door the morning after a huge party. He was so hungover, he let her in and she had to step over passed out partyers to make it to the couch. As she prepared her presentation he went in his bedroom and passed out. He has no idea how long she hung in there.
Quote from: Cassia on October 21, 2020, 09:31:04 AM
That reminds me of story a drummer in my band told me. An older JW lady knocked on his door the morning after a huge party. He was so hungover, he let her in and she had to step over passed out partyers to make it to the couch. As she prepared her presentation he went in his bedroom and passed out. He has no idea how long she hung in there.
That could be part of a movie.
Quote from: Jagella on October 20, 2020, 07:46:53 PM
Again, if you want to argue Christian beliefs, then it's very useful to know what those beliefs are and where they came from.
Sheesh--it looks like I underestimated the popularity of ignorance.
As it happens, I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic grade- and high school, and a Presbyterian college. I have read the bible, both the Catholic and Protestant versions, as well as various non-canonical books -- to say nothing of bits of the Quran, the Book of Mormon, the Tripiá¹aka, the Bardo Thodol, some of the Vedas, and even the Principia Discordia. I have studied various strains of Christian
and non-Christian beliefs.
I am not obliged to have memorized the entire book in order to know what I'm talking about.
Don't bring a pea shooter to a nuclear exchange. You won't like the tan you get.
Quote from: SGOS on October 21, 2020, 08:34:18 AM
I let a Jehovah Witness in one time, which started a month long series of visitations of Bible thumpers. This was in the last days of my quest to find God, and apparently the Witnesses wanted me bad. Actually, I already knew where I stood on the issue, but it was like giving Christianity one more shot.
This member and that member would stop by to give me their pitch. One time they sent a woman my age who showed up in a new Cadillac. My question was always the same, "How do we know God exists?" That's really the only question that matters. If he doesn't, then the whole religion thing is a waste of energy. If he does, then it may or may not be worth the trouble to dig deeper, but until then, it's pointless. This woman brought her Bible and was ready for me. My main question, and every related question was met with a flutter, more like a flurry, of Bible pages, and each Earth shattering claim began with naming chapter and verse. She had 50 to 100 little bookmarks to aid her. Just keeping track of the bookmarks, was an impressive feat in itself. Collectively, the verses made the case for God and the Bible. One verse showed why the Bible was true, and another showed why the 1st verse was true because the Bible was true. Of course my question could not be answered without the circular reasoning, and necessary apologetics. Throw out logic and it may have meant something to someone, specifically to this woman because she seemed to think it all made perfect sense.
Everyone thinks their own POV is reasonable, this is part of their virtue signaling. In actual fact, almost all the words people use, they don't knew what they mean (hence endless recursion of semantics by philosophers). Usage is informal. Even in mathematics usually mathematicians use informal argumentation (with people they respect) not formal proof. This is why some accepted theorems turn out to be false (you can't square root a negative number!). Of course almost none of us are philosophers or mathematicians, and if they don't know what a word means, nobody does.
Self estimated intelligence is very optimistic, but jump the shark among intellectuals. What happens in self communication or mutual communication, is we are triggering memories (mostly false) of past experiences (semaphoring aka the information is not in the message itself, we are just passing booleans). If I say to you what X is like, and you have no experiential hook, then the words I use are gibberish (just as you sound to your baby). Of course one can talk gibberish to oneself, and we often do that too.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 21, 2020, 09:15:08 AM
I have the same reaction myself. As I remember it, the only author of any of the bible (both old and new) books is Paul. I think traditionally he is credited with writing 13. Now it seems most think he wrote 6 (with most of those a blend of more than one writing) and 6 by pseudo-Paul writers, and Hebrews who just about everybody agrees he did not write.
Something else that drives me nuts is the most christians think the order of the NT books is in chronological order. If one were to read the NT in chronological order, Paul's works would come first. And if read in that order, it gives a totally different 'feel' to the NT, as opposed to reading it as it is now. I see this as a masterful work of propaganda.
It is propaganda. The OT is rearranged at the end, to better support the Gospels, than the Jewish order.
"There is a god shaped hole, and it's been filled by chaos." ... exactly, former Christians have taken out one bearded Jew and put a different one in.