I joined this forum so that I could interact with other like-minded people like myself. I was born and raised catholic and even survived 9 years of catholic school. As i've gotten older (61),I've come to realize that I've never believed in any god,especially the christian god. My wife of 38 years became a devout christian after our son was born,and has tried every argument that you can think of to "convert" me,but to no avail. Both of our kids are married and have families of their own. Of course they're christians and have also tried to "convert"me but after all these years, we've agreed to disagree. I look forward to interacting with others who have similar beliefs, or non-beliefs.
Welcome to the forum.
Welcome indeed. Take a needed break from crazy and join our insanity. ðŸ˜
Quote from: bob nelson on October 14, 2020, 11:20:48 PM
As i've gotten older (61),I've come to realize that I've never believed in any god,especially the christian god.
I can relate to this. I did some time in Catholic school as well. I wouldn't go so far to say I didn't believe. I was simultaneously doubtful and guilty because I was using my brain. The insistence that Jesus's body is physically present in billions of wafers (aka 'hosts') was just too much bullshit for me. I did the unthinkable. I started to read the Bible. I enrolled in the college of engineering. That was pretty much the beginning of the end of faith for me.
Welcome. My religious training began around the same time as my potty training and taught me to be a Lutheran. We are the guys that replaced your Catholic bullshit with newer bullshit. Since that time, I have tried to avoid bullshit. I'm getting better, but it has taken some effort.
Welcome. My wife is a recovering Catholic, as well. She attended Catholic school thru HS. Stayed devout and even became a priests aide. Then started drifting away when her husband divorced her and she was told she could not remarry--while nothing was said about her ex. I helped speed the falling away.
My Ex is a former Catholic sister (religious order). She shifted to Protestantism, with mixed results. Conflict in a marriage is much fun indeed.
Welcome also.
Hi Bob! I wanted to be a Catholic just so I could be excommunicated!
;-D
hiya Bob, welcome to our little band of heathens.
Thanks for the welcome. since i'm on here,is any one else a "metalhead"? that's another issue that i have with my family. been a life-long music fan and metalhead for over 40 years. needless to say, my choice of music doesn't go over very well.
Quote from: bob nelson on October 15, 2020, 07:03:14 PM
Thanks for the welcome. since i'm on here,is any one else a "metalhead"? that's another issue that i have with my family. been a life-long music fan and metalhead for over 40 years. needless to say, my choice of music doesn't go over very well.
Find the thread on this site--What Are You Listening To? Part II
'Sup, Bob? I've been an atheist for a few years now. I was extremely devout in my late teens and early twenties. I was involved in more ministries (free labor) than I could count. But despite my devotion, God still felt distant to me. I was tired of living in a one-way relationship where I did all the work and he took all the credit. So I gave him an ultimatum. He could either give me an undeniable sign that he was there, and that he was listening, or I'd walk away. I didn't get a sign.
Must suck for you to be married into a religious family, where even your kids are Christian. I wonder what your kids will think when they outlive you. Would they honestly be able to justify God sending you to Hell for all of eternity, or will they realize that you're a good man, and that no just god would punish a good man with eternal torture just for not believing in the right religion?
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 16, 2020, 02:51:49 AM
He could either give me an undeniable sign that he was there, and that he was listening, or I'd walk away. I didn't get a sign.
That is interesting Blackleaf. A Christian asked me what it would take for me to believe in god. I asked her what would it take for her to believe in Vishnu. Crickets. I am not so sure what a single event would look like for me to accept the Christian god as a fact. A 'wheelchair healing' in a megachurch just reinforces the lack of evidence. I don't see ambulances rushing to churches for some reason.
I think a factual god that has been interacting with humans for centuries would be undeniable. There would be one true religion. If the Christian bible even had one passage that could not have been written by a person of that time; I would consider it carefully. There is nothing like that. Instead it is a repackaged rehash of previous myths. The case for any particular god is nonexistent.
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 16, 2020, 02:51:49 AM
But despite my devotion, God still felt distant to me.
When I was first taught to pray, and that training came very early in my family, I remember feeling silly, because it seemed like nothing was at the other end of my prayers. There wasn't even an annoyed stir, like, "Don't bother me kid." I was talking to God, as per my instructions, but no one was talking back to me. It seemed like a pointless way to have a conversation. I asked my mother why God didn't answer me, and she told me that was not the way God talked to us. This was my first exposure to Christian apologetics.
One simple thing would make me a believer, and of the most ardent type. Have the bible come from many different geographical places around Earth--and all dating from the same time frame.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 15, 2020, 08:17:00 PM
Find the thread on this site--What Are You Listening To? Part II
And be sure to drop some sick metal beats, @bob nelson
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 16, 2020, 09:41:18 AM
One simple thing would make me a believer, and of the most ardent type. Have the bible come from many different geographical places around Earth--and all dating from the same time frame.
There are no autographs (original first manuscripts) of any holy book. Even the Gilgamesh tales in Ashurbanipal's library were excellent copies from 1000 years earlier (Hammurabi's library). Autographs are usually accidentally preserved ordinary documents ... "Uzalu orders 3 bushels of barley from the Ur temple". They had no reason to copy or save those in the first place. The first case of preservation of copies of holy books were Babylonians keeping copies of Sumerian holy books, in the original language, because they were still reciting that (with Babylonian accents). One exception, Sumerian or Babylonian kings would put a special tablet in the foundation of a new or rebuilt temple, so that they could brag to future generations. Those are original and not ordinary documents, but of banal content anyway. We did the same at my HS, we put stuff from 1973 in a time capsule under the flag stand.
I don’t even ask for a hard miracle....from a real god. Just have a plane that is falling from the sky to gently float to the ground and everyone lives. Sheesh. You can create a universe but not float an airplane to the ground?
Quote from: aitm on October 16, 2020, 07:08:50 PM
I don’t even ask for a hard miracle....from a real god. Just have a plane that is falling from the sky to gently float to the ground and everyone lives. Sheesh. You can create a universe but not float an airplane to the ground?
They were all sinners anyway.
Quote from: aitm on October 16, 2020, 07:08:50 PM
I don’t even ask for a hard miracle....from a real god. Just have a plane that is falling from the sky to gently float to the ground and everyone lives. Sheesh. You can create a universe but not float an airplane to the ground?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider
No fuel. No deaths. Can't explain that.
Ok, maybe you can. It's just super complex and not at all supernatural.
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 16, 2020, 09:10:06 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider
No fuel. No deaths. Can't explain that.
Ok, maybe you can. It's just super complex and not at all supernatural.
New York flight lands in the Hudson after hitting a bird on takeoff, nobody had ever landed a airliner in the water successfully before or since. A human miracle ;-) ... for which the pilot was criticized.
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 16, 2020, 09:10:06 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider
No fuel. No deaths. Can't explain that.
Ok, maybe you can. It's just super complex and not at all supernatural.
Just finished reading up on that. Jesus Christ. That must have been quite a trip for those involved, and the audience the plane narrowly avoided killing.
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 16, 2020, 09:10:06 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider
No fuel. No deaths. Can't explain that.
Ok, maybe you can. It's just super complex and not at all supernatural.
Gliding, a aeronautical design, is a far cry from floating. ðŸ˜
Quote from: aitm on October 17, 2020, 06:55:18 AM
Gliding, a aeronautical design, is a far cry from floating. ðŸ˜
The Hudson River landing didn't float for long, but everyone got out alive ;-)