Firstly, we have a question?
Is the universe in an organized order, or is it a chaos?
Cosmos in its etymological root means order, in contrast to any order or organization...
So, you agree with that the universe is going where it is going in an organized order??????????????
or it is a chaos?????ÅŸdlfjgldfgd?_?????????*
Asking the thread's headline's question? what do you think?
It is very popular rhetoric in Turkland's some circles...
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on August 07, 2020, 11:32:03 AM
Firstly, we have a question?
Is the universe in an organized order, or is it a chaos?
Cosmos in its etymological root means order, in contrast to any order or organization...
So, you agree with that the universe is going where it is going in an organized order??????????????
or it is a chaos?????ÅŸdlfjgldfgd?_?????????*
Asking the thread's headline's question? what do you think?
It is very popular rhetoric in Turkland's some circles...
The answers are in Greek ... is it Greek to you?
The world was a "chaos" but became a "cosmos" ... from disorder to order. To an ancient Greek that meant acquiring a personality. Even in quantum probability, there is order within it. Even within classical turbulence, there is order within it. This went from a mythology, to a natural philosophy, under Thales and Pythagoras. Heraclitus focused on chaos, Xenophanes focused on monotheism (or at least henotheism). It is anthropomorphic, to say that nature requires a personality (aka Gaia/Uranus coupling). Specifically Chaos was like the quantum vacuum, a void out of which all things come. By spontaneous generation, the first gods were formed ... Gaia, Tartarus, Eros, Erebus, Hemera and Nyx. It is unclear if Uranus came directly from Gaia or indirectly from Aether + Gaia, where Aether is the son of Erebus + Nyx, with Hemera not primordial but the brother of Aether. Each of these is a personification of some primary human experience/idea. One can see how monotheism was an obvious improvement ;-) It took millennia for natural philosophy to turn into physical science. But materialism and rationalism date back almost as far as classical mythology (the version we know from literate Greece).
It is Aristotelian (and therefore Averroist/Muslim) to insist on a cause of nature that isn't infinite regression. The problem of a non-infinite regression was a problem for natural philosophy and physical science, until the Big Bang was discovered. The cosmologist went right back to the beginning and found the theologians were already there ;-) Aristotle had to posit a Prime Mover to avoid infinite regression non-theistically.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_causes
Aristotle did his philosophical work thru careful analysis of the Greek language. But it isn't a complete travesty to do this in a non-Greek language like English ;-))
It's both--order and chaos. Or neither--it just is. If there is any order to anything, it is because we perceive order. Actually, the universe is coincidence; it is made up of the materials it is made up of and they combine, or not, to form other materials. That's about it. If you want your universe to have order and purpose, then it is up to you to make it so.
If you’re looking for an answer that will fit with your perspective, then your perspective will determine the answer you find. Given the math answer, say 537, and given a set of numbers like, 5,12,3,7 and told to come up with the equation that gives you the answer may be difficult but not improbable. Starting out with the same numbers and applying various equations to see what answers are there present a whole wider range of probabilities. If you start a search already knowing what you want to find, you will indeed find it.
It is easy for me to say I don't know much about agency and/or purpose to the universe and leave it at that. Order versus chaos could just be a measure of knowledge.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Chimpanzee_seated_at_typewriter.jpg)
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 07, 2020, 01:26:42 PM
It's both--order and chaos. Or neither--it just is. If there is any order to anything, it is because we perceive order. Actually, the universe is coincidence; it is made up of the materials it is made up of and they combine, or not, to form other materials. That's about it. If you want your universe to have order and purpose, then it is up to you to make it so.
Yes, it just is. So? - Dick Cheney
If people are natural, and nature has no purpose, where does human purpose come from?
Quote from: aitm on August 07, 2020, 01:52:23 PM
If you’re looking for an answer that will fit with your perspective, then your perspective will determine the answer you find. Given the math answer, say 537, and given a set of numbers like, 5,12,3,7 and told to come up with the equation that gives you the answer may be difficult but not improbable. Starting out with the same numbers and applying various equations to see what answers are there present a whole wider range of probabilities. If you start a search already knowing what you want to find, you will indeed find it.
This is why math is so useful, if you quantify things first. You can use it to model just about anything. You are talking about Diophantine Equations by the way, an ancient math game.
@Cassia ... this is why in game theory (particularly gambling) Baysian Probability is useful. You start out with odds on limited knowledge, and as your knowledge improves (face up cards) the odds change.
Quote from: Baruch on August 07, 2020, 01:58:04 PM
This is why math is so useful, if you quantify things first. You can use it to model just about anything. You are talking about Diophantine Equations by the way, an ancient math game.
@Cassia ... this is why in game theory (particularly gambling) Baysian Probability is useful. You start out with odds on limited knowledge, and as your knowledge improves (face up cards) the odds change.
Yes, and that is why the I find supernatural religious claims to have low probability. By definition a miracle has to have almost zero probability of occurance. The lower the probability, the greater the god.
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on August 07, 2020, 11:32:03 AM
Firstly, we have a question?
Is the universe in an organized order, or is it a chaos?
Depends on what scale you're looking at. On the largest scales, it's quite homogeneous with a few islands of matter here and there. On the smallest scales, particularly the atomic, it's probabilistic and chaotic within mathematical limits.
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on August 07, 2020, 11:32:03 AM
Cosmos in its etymological root means order, in contrast to any order or organization...
So, you agree with that the universe is going where it is going in an organized order??????????????
or it is a chaos?????ÅŸdlfjgldfgd?_?????????*
Etymology is only descriptive, it has no evidentiary value.
Order arises spontaneously out of chaotic systems that operate on rules, and the universe operates on rules we call the laws of science. It's an open question how many consistent sets of rules there are that describe long-lived, long-term stable universes. We know there is at least one set, because we observe we're in a long-lived, long-term stable universe. There may or may not be others.
Iterate over those rules in this universe, and in just 13.8 billions years you get from a hyperhot quark soup to at least one form of sentient life that can contemplate this universe.
(https://elementsunearthed.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/strange_attractor_chaos-s.jpg)
The practical upshot: no, no 'organizer' is needed.
Chaos and order are human constructs.
As are complexity and simplicity.
As entropy sets in, one might say we are moving more and more to simplicity. One might venture that a move to chaos as structures grow less frequent . Or even as a move towards order, as it is a move to uniformity.
How the Logos was said in Greek ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y34cxfSNAxg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77KPTlNkBB4
More than just copies of copies, the material evidence of the human spirit ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XVi_7b4byc
The human being is all the evidence that I need. I don't need to see the Cosmic Background Radiation. If human evidence is insufficient, then human produced science is silenced as well. Science without scientists is a false claim to omniscience. Democritus (of Atom fame) was called the Laughing Philosopher. I can only laugh with him at the poverty of mere materialism.
The human being is all the evidence that I need.
Is it: (a) I think, therefore a god
-or-
is it: (b) I think, therefore My God ?
Getting from all that wishy washy, feel good, spiritual feeling stuff to a specific deity and a dogmatic system seems like non evidential irrationality to me. I am of course agnostic on the subject but they don't have agnostic forums, LOL
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on August 07, 2020, 11:32:03 AMThere is an organized order, so there must be an organizer?
Oh goodie, the old "design implies a designer" argument. And of course, the reason these people say there's design is because they already believe in a designer and also believe in the designer because they believe that there's design. It's circular logic.
QuoteIs the universe in an organized order, or is it a chaos?
It could be considered either or both or neither depending on what exactly you mean.
We do know for a fact that we're on a rock whizzing around a star with lots of other rocks and they often collide. And even the stars themselves collide. And sometimes, planets are flung out from their star into the void between stars. Stars can also stray outside of their galaxy.
If this is a clockwork universe, it's an extremely messy one.
QuoteCosmos in its etymological root means order, in contrast to any order or organization...
And the word "fort" means strong, that doesn't necessarily mean that any given fort is strong. Words simply describe things, they can't define things into existence.
QuoteSo, you agree with that the universe is going where it is going in an organized order??????????????
That grammar is definitely an argument against order imo. :P
On the Planck scale there is only the quantum foam, with no order in evidence. On the cosmic scale, again there is no order in evidence. Only on the scales between those can what we call order be seen - our brains perceive it, but our perceptions are very limited.
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 07, 2020, 04:46:37 PM
On the Planck scale there is only the quantum foam, with no order in evidence. On the cosmic scale, again there is no order in evidence. Only on the scales between those can what we call order be seen - our brains perceive it, but our perceptions are very limited.
And what little order we get is just a function of natural forces operating in tandem with each other and occassionally pumping out something that we perceive as orderly rather than purposeful, deliberate craftsmanship.
For example, Saturn has this really striking hexagonal cloud pattern (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn%27s_hexagon) at its north pole. Really wonderful. But it's not like it gives me pause and makes me think that some divine being came down and made it happen. Take a liquid, spin it around at different speeds in the middle and at the top and bottom, this is what you get. It's not magic.
Quote from: Cassia on August 07, 2020, 04:22:28 PM
The human being is all the evidence that I need.
Is it: (a) I think, therefore a god
-or-
is it: (b) I think, therefore My God ?
Getting from all that wishy washy, feel good, spiritual feeling stuff to a specific deity and a dogmatic system seems like non evidential irrationality to me. I am of course agnostic on the subject but they don't have agnostic forums, LOL
I am a demi-god. But not special, everyone is a demi-god. Augustus Caesar was (in how they meant it then) a demi-god, and he didn't even have a cell phone. Letting people define their own terms is surrender without a fight.
Yes, we all know that Trump is a Russian agent ... because empirical evidence? Really? I know that Hillary murdered all those Arkancide victims up close and personal ... because I saw her do it?
One can restrict ones' standard of evidence so tight, even arithmetic is suspicious. Just ask the geniuses as BLM. Or Kurt Godel. A finite system of arithmetic, if assumed complete, is necessarily inconsistent. A finite system of arithmetic, if assumed consistent, is necessarily incomplete.
All the world is s stage ...
"I am alone in the Theater of Dionysus in Athens, I am one of many there -> Sometimes I am the protagonist, or the antagonist, or in the chorus or in the audience. Sometimes a comedy is in progress, but more often a tragedy. Those are the dimensions of my witnessing. What I was, I have not yet become ... what I will be, I already have been, and where those cross over, here am I. My witnessing is a becoming, is interwoven with the play's progress. I have arrived, but I have never left. What I may be, lies beyond speech, beyond revealing. My purpose is to embody that mystery, which is to live a life ... Dionysius am I. Let's drink to that!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rDRnk-rhCg
The mask is your "persona". This is why masks are important for Covid, we are enacting our own tragedy in our daily lives.
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 07, 2020, 04:46:37 PM
On the Planck scale there is only the quantum foam, with no order in evidence. On the cosmic scale, again there is no order in evidence. Only on the scales between those can what we call order be seen - our brains perceive it, but our perceptions are very limited.
I hear that bathing in quantum foam cures Covid ;-)
Yes, our senses are very limited. But except as a baby, you don't sense directly, you sense thru a built-in gestalt and a learned perception. Once you are older, you don't think that your mother really disappeared when she goes around a corner, out of your sight. What is supposedly objectively real, that we approximately get in science, is called "qualia". And philosophers aren't even sure that exists. Scientific method avoids utter subjectivity (of the psychotic), but its grasp of the objective is approximate (but only in the hands of scientists not named Lysenko or Fauci).
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 07, 2020, 10:18:31 PM
And what little order is get is just a function of natural forces operating in tandem with each other and occassionally pumping out something that we perceive as orderly rather than purposeful, deliberate craftsmanship.
For example, Saturn has this really striking hexagonal cloud pattern (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn%27s_hexagon) at its north pole. Really wonderful. But it's not like it gives me pause and makes me think that some divine being came down and made it happen. Take a liquid, spin it around at different speeds in the middle and at the top and bottom, this is what you get. It's not magic.
What are natural forces? Gravity, to Einstein, only is apparent, because we don't use a smarter (freely falling) reference frame. One should stop at Newtonian physics, right? In relative motion, if you are fast enough, the effect precedes the cause.
A bunch of semi-divine-beings sent a probe with a camera to Saturn. Jehovah wasn't necessary. I once spent three days (only three) working on the Hubble Space Telescope. Odysseus never did that!
This is the only organiser. That's why they were given away free at work places -even big stores- in large quantities at ocassions, new year's eve, christmas...before smart gadgets were introduced to human life. While this archaic type was the one a few people could successfuly use, other ones proved to use people effectively in mass scale. (Hint: This is an anology.)
(https://5.imimg.com/data5/MK/ET/XK/SELLER-68995836/organiser-diary-500x500.jpg)
You are such a 1980s woman ;-) Still have a cell phone the size of a brick? ;-)
BTW ... you proved my point. You all do, because you aren't a bad interaction fake human like Tay, uploaded online, though some nihilists want to be.
“Do not accept anything as the truth if it lacks love. And do not accept anything as love is it lacks the truth. One without the other is a destructive lie.
My God, fill my soul with holy joy, courage and strength to serve You. Kindle your love in me and then walk with me along the next stretch of road before me.
I do not see very far ahead, but when I have arrived where the horizon closes down, a new prospect will open before me, and I shall meet it with peace.â€
Jewish-Catholic Saint Edith Stein
Quote from: drunkenshoe on August 08, 2020, 02:23:50 AM
This is the only organiser. That's why they were given away free at work places -even big stores- in large quantities at ocassions, new year's eve, christmas...before smart gadgets were introduced to human life. While this archaic type was the one a few people could successfuly use, other ones proved to use people effectively in mass scale. (Hint: This is an anology.)
(https://5.imimg.com/data5/MK/ET/XK/SELLER-68995836/organiser-diary-500x500.jpg)
yeap, it was the only organiser back in your days :D
an old but gold organiser...
however in the context i want to open the discussion, it is no alaka.
Such organizers were popular in the 80-90s and spontaneously assembled themselves thru quantum mechanics woo.
Quote from: Baruch on August 10, 2020, 01:35:15 PM
Such organizers were popular in the 80-90s and spontaneously assembled themselves thru quantum mechanics woo.
In no time, it assembles...
do not worry about it... ı h've tried this type of old organiser... no functionality...
now, i click it, and i'm done with it...
thanks techonology...
Holy Ontological argument Batman. Don't you just love when bedroom logisticians set out to show their specific brand of god exists. They get a script from some website and call in to Matt Dillihunty or Seth Andrews to show them the way it is and end up getting all tongue twisted. DNA somehow is really C code and just because material brains can think and communicate in the abstract we have a 3-day rotting Jesus walked around smelling like roses. Then Bang....the next thing you know we have an infinite number of universes and anything that "is possible" must exist, therefore Satan is leading us to homosexuality. I really respect plain old fashioned faith more than all this "intellectual" apologetic bullcrap.
It doesn't matter what brand of god/goddess you follow. That would be prejudicial, and we know how SJWs feel about that!
I don't need SJWs to tell me what to have for supper. What arguments can they offer regarding my routine subjective decisions?
Ontological arguments don't work on people who only use logic for casuistry.
Justice arguments are different ... "You never expect the Spanish Inquisition!".
I fuck all, u never know!...
Quote from: Cassia on August 10, 2020, 02:51:18 PM
Holy Ontological argument Batman. Don't you just love when bedroom logisticians set out to show their specific brand of god exists. They get a script from some website and call in to Matt Dillihunty or Seth Andrews to show them the way it is and end up getting all tongue twisted. DNA somehow is really C code and just because material brains can think and communicate in the abstract we have a 3-day rotting Jesus walked around smelling like roses. Then Bang....the next thing you know we have an infinite number of universes and anything that "is possible" must exist, therefore Satan is leading us to homosexuality. I really respect plain old fashioned faith more than all this "intellectual" apologetic bullcrap.
Yeah, that bugs me, too. The dishonesty of it all.
But I kinda see why they do this. They're met with skeptics who demand proof (which they must know they can't provide) or at least a logical reason to believe (which seems doable to them). And so they semi-carefully craft these logical hairballs and show them to us with pride, hoping to win our approval and immediate conversion. And for some unknown reason, they don't quite get the reaction they expected. Walking by faith tends to lead one into a ditch. But it's a decent attempt: they at least know what we want and put forth an effort to provide it. They may even genuinely value reason and logic themselves.
The people who really drive me nuts are the presuppositionists - who simply assume that their faith is true and expect that to fly. Or the people who think that their subjective experience is enough to sell me. If I told people that I walked into the woods and befriended a demon sultan, people would have questions and rightfully so. My say-so means nothing, just as theirs does.
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on August 10, 2020, 06:04:56 PM
I fuck all, u never know!...
Read some affirmations. That is more important than if G-d has a beard ;-)
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 10, 2020, 11:03:25 PM
Yeah, that bugs me, too. The dishonesty of it all.
But I kinda see why they do this. They're met with skeptics who demand proof (which they must know they can't provide) or at least a logical reason to believe (which seems doable to them). And so they semi-carefully craft these logical hairballs and show them to us with pride, hoping to win our approval and immediate conversion. And for some unknown reason, they don't quite get the reaction they expected. Walking by faith tends to lead one into a ditch. But it's a decent attempt: they at least know what we want and put forth an effort to provide it. They may even genuinely value reason and logic themselves.
The people who really drive me nuts are the presuppositionists - who simply assume that they faith is true and expect that to fly. Or the people who think that their subjective experience is enough to sell me. If I told people that I walked into the woods and befriended a demon sultan, people would have questions and rightfully so. My say-so means nothing, just as theirs does.
One starts with a hypothesis, based on "common notions" so says Euclid. Otherwise it isn't logic, it is rhetoric. My "common notion" is that people's thinking, feeling and behavior are the result of human psychology. I don't need to trace that back to the Planck Length of space-time. Ontological arguments for anything, have never impressed me. I am from the "show me" state, or should be. People can get away with denying theology or denying philosophy ... but denying psychology is "crazy".
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on August 07, 2020, 11:32:03 AM
Firstly, we have a question?
Is the universe in an organized order, or is it a chaos?
Cosmos in its etymological root means order, in contrast to any order or organization...
So, you agree with that the universe is going where it is going in an organized order??????????????
or it is a chaos?????ÅŸdlfjgldfgd?_?????????*
Asking the thread's headline's question? what do you think?
It is very popular rhetoric in Turkland's some circles...
First of all, as others have already stated, at smallest level of the universe, it does not look like there is order.
Also, human brains have evolved to find patterns, even where there aren't any. We are basically, hyper active pattern seeking machines For survival, it is better to for us to have more false positives, than false negatives.;
So, the alleged order you are pointing to, may just be our brains trying to overlay order onto something that may not actually be ordered.
And finally, it seems to me, that there is a fallacy of composition in this argument. In other words, just because something is true of part of something, doesn't mean it is true of the whole.
Quantum mechanics isn't complete disorder, it is structured probability. That structure is "the order" aka Schroedinger Equation etc. Relativity also follows a classical non-probability order per its equations. But that doesn't imply, by itself, that there was any physicist involved ;-) In most classical situations, turbulence happens (aka Chaos) but that isn't completely disordered either (attractors).
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on August 10, 2020, 11:19:07 AM
yeap, it was the only organiser back in your days :D
an old but gold organiser...
however in the context i want to open the discussion, it is no alaka.
Analoji kuramadığın için espriyi de göremiyorsun tabii. Neyse önemsiz. Türkiye'de çok popüler diye aktardığın soru, dünyanın her yerinde en çok rastlanan, en eski safsata. Bu forumda sayısız kere açılmış bir başlık.
Düzen müzen yok. Akıllı canlının etrafına bakıp birbirine bağlayarak doğaya yamadığı yorumlar var.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on August 14, 2020, 03:29:16 AM
Analoji kuramadığın için espriyi de göremiyorsun tabii. Neyse önemsiz. Türkiye'de çok popüler diye aktardığın soru, dünyanın her yerinde en çok rastlanan, en eski safsata. Bu forumda sayısız kere açılmış bir başlık.
Düzen müzen yok. Akıllı canlının etrafına bakıp birbirine bağlayarak doğaya yamadığı yorumlar var.
Yeah! What she said!
LOL you do agree with it. Translation: "order, shmorder...oldest bullshit in the book."
There is just enough order for me to be happy and just enough disorder for me to profit. This morning I threw close to $50,000.00 into Telsa common stock for 247 seconds. Thanks Elon, you wierdo. The ask price went up by 0.8% for $368 net. I only do this peak clipping a few times a week. Monday was even better. Good hairdressers ain't cheap, LOL. Making my fun money on volitivity and chaos is just so wrong. Jesus would be so disappointed. Reminds me of an affair or something.
Quote from: Cassia on August 14, 2020, 10:35:22 AM
There is just enough order for me to be happy and just enough disorder for me to profit. This morning I threw close to $50,000.00 into Telsa common stock for 247 seconds. Thanks Elon, you wierdo. The ask price went up by 0.8% for $368 net. I only do this peak clipping a few times a week. Monday was even better. Good hairdressers ain't cheap, LOL. Making my fun money on volitivity and chaos is just so wrong. Jesus would be so disappointed. Reminds me of an affair or something.
So how much is that per hour? I actually tried to calculate that, but had a massive brain fart, so I said, "Fuck it," and gave up. Having said that, I'll further derail that post, by saying that I sat in a Tesla in a temporary showroom in Chicago. It was solid and luxurious. I think it's the car of the not too distant future, whether you like Elon Musk or not. I think the only bug in that car is the society we live in.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on August 14, 2020, 03:29:16 AM
Analoji kuramadığın için espriyi de göremiyorsun tabii. Neyse önemsiz. Türkiye'de çok popüler diye aktardığın soru, dünyanın her yerinde en çok rastlanan, en eski safsata. Bu forumda sayısız kere açılmış bir başlık.
Düzen müzen yok. Akıllı canlının etrafına bakıp birbirine bağlayarak doğaya yamadığı yorumlar var.
He has no order? Have you re-read some of your longer posts? ;-)
Quote from: Cassia on August 14, 2020, 10:35:22 AM
There is just enough order for me to be happy and just enough disorder for me to profit. This morning I threw close to $50,000.00 into Telsa common stock for 247 seconds. Thanks Elon, you wierdo. The ask price went up by 0.8% for $368 net. I only do this peak clipping a few times a week. Monday was even better. Good hairdressers ain't cheap, LOL. Making my fun money on volitivity and chaos is just so wrong. Jesus would be so disappointed. Reminds me of an affair or something.
Trading on volatility? Better than buying high and selling low ;-) Congratulations on guessing well. A good general has luck as a constant companion, until he doesn't (see Julius Caesar). Don't financial trade on March 15!
If there is no order in the market, then Jim Simons isn't a billionaire!! Quants use Quantum Mechanics to unravel the order hidden within the disorder of finance.
Again, the existence of humans proves the failure of random materialism. It is very hard to actually make something truly random, used to make keys for government encryption.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RpPg4ew4E4
If encryption was truly random, it couldn't be decrypted by its recipients. The art of cryptology is how to well hide order within disorder. People do this, not turbulent fluids etc (that would be anthropomorphism, but I approve of this, being an anthropoid myself). The idea that there is no designer in a turbulent fluid doesn't prove that a human isn't a designer of human things Basic logic failure otherwise.
https://youtu.be/i6DfJVjEMlc
If there is a difference between assertations from anything called a religion and anything called a cult, I fail to see it. Passage of time and quantity of followers is irrelevant when it comes to unsupported claims. A burning bush, gold tablets by dictation in the Southwestern US, a 3-day dead risen man, an alien craft behind a comet, an 8-armed elephant-headed creature, it makes no difference. Grow the fuck up already, LOL.
I like the con artist/relgion video.
I agree that religion feeds off of peoples' need for meaning, because people say it does. I don't believe it's true for everyone, and certainly not for me. One of the most common philosophical questions is, "What is the meaning of life?" This is the fallacy of begging the question in that it assumes life has meaning. Maybe life has meaning, but maybe not. You don't just assume that it does, and build from there. Personally, I've never experienced a lack of meaning with the exception of a handful of times when I've wondered about it. Why did I wonder? Well, because I was allowing myself to be trapped the the fallacy of begging the question. In the end, I simply had better things to do, and that is enough meaning to satisfy me.
Of course, it's different strokes for different folks. Maybe going to college, learning how to find contentment, or figuring out which ski slope will be the most interesting one at the moment is not enough for everyone, and I give them my blessing, but I think finding meaning in a fantasy needs to be balanced. Sure I find meaning in the Superman, as the stories resonate with many things in my subconscious, but it's not necessary to devote my life to Superman, because there's lots of other things I can do that add to the richness of being. Also in regards to the video, cults are cults, whether they are billion dollar enterprises or just some local zealots performing sex rituals once a week.
Quote from: Cassia on November 25, 2020, 08:34:08 AM
If there is a difference between assertations from anything called a religion and anything called a cult, I fail to see it.
Experts may disagree but I think of a cult as formed around a single individual who is alive. There is a difference between someone telling their followers what to do and people interpreting what a deceased or fictional individual said.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 25, 2020, 09:57:43 AM
Experts may disagree but I think of a cult as formed around a single individual who is alive. There is a difference between someone telling their followers what to do and people interpreting what a deceased or fictional individual said.
Often the term 'cult' is used to denigrate a group other than your own; 'Those catholics are cult members! (while my Baptist chruch is not)
I see organized religions as simply a large collection of mini cults. In just about every church I've been in for awhile, has a minister or priest who is given cult-leader status in that when any religious questions come up, they are the go-to person and the answer they give is 'gospel'.
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 25, 2020, 10:41:17 AM
Often the term 'cult' is used to denigrate a group other than your own; 'Those catholics are cult members! (while my Baptist chruch is not)
I see organized religions as simply a large collection of mini cults. In just about every church I've been in for awhile, has a minister or priest who is given cult-leader status in that when any religious questions come up, they are the go-to person and the answer they give is 'gospel'.
In academia, the difference between cult (illegitimate) and cultus (legitimate). Same as the difference between terrorist (legitimate) and government (legitimate).
Society is based on con jobs, starting with your parents. Commerce and politics are complete con jobs bigger than religion (except Marxism). Marxism also worships a dead man (since Marx' death) see also Leninism and Maoism and their Pharaonicly preserved corpses. This is why Hitler's body was party burned, then buried under a garage floor in Magdeburg (maybe) and why Osama's body was dumped into the Indian Ocean.
In Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity they have had "saints" relics from before Constantine and Buddha's bone relics in stupas ... so "old time religion" involved dead people on a regular basis (they all voted Dem). The Pyramids are testimony to this. But modern grown up people are cave men with smart phones ;-))
There are caves where giant crystals grow, with perfectly straight edges. No god needed. One can, if one wishes, try to force order on ever odder things, but that would just prove that one is an anal jerk.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 26, 2020, 05:37:12 PM
There are caves where giant crystals grow, with perfectly straight edges. No god needed. One can, if one wishes, try to force order on ever odder things, but that would just prove that one is an anal jerk.
If people were crystals, women wouldn't have to birth them either. There is a difference between people and crystals (unless you are New Age ;-)