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Humanities Section => Political/Government General Discussion => Topic started by: Jason Harvestdancer on July 03, 2020, 09:46:46 PM

Title: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on July 03, 2020, 09:46:46 PM
So, now that the Democrats have picked their candidate, we are supposed to pretend the third parties don't exist and concentrate ust on these two.

Let's have it,  stump for your preferred candidate.

Personally I think replacing Trump with Biden is like sitting your pants and then changing your shirt.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 03, 2020, 10:57:49 PM
(https://sadanduseless.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/campaign.png)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 03, 2020, 11:46:03 PM
The trick will be ... Biden & who??
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on July 03, 2020, 11:52:21 PM
Up until very recently, I was planning on either voting Green or writing in Gabbard. Since Biden actually stands a chance in my state now, I will probably vote for him and so long as the Republicans don't nominate someone as batshit as Trump next election use that one to start protest voting.

This election is unfortunately too important to waste my vote though.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 03, 2020, 11:57:00 PM
Up until very recently, I was planning on either voting Green or writing in Gabbard. Since Biden actually stands a chance in my state now, I will probably vote for him and so long as the Republicans don't nominate someone as batshit as Trump next election use that one to start protest voting.

This election is unfortunately too important to waste my vote though.

Something I pondered for 44 years ... good luck ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on July 04, 2020, 01:16:28 AM
I'm almost tempted to vote for Trump just to see how bad things can possibly get.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on July 04, 2020, 02:31:35 AM
I'm voting for Biden. I live in a battleground state and have no interest in voting third party in this election. I see Trump as having done a particularly terrible job leading the country. I won't give a litany of his flaws and failures but the current state of the United States and its relationship with other countries is due in no small part to his mismanagement. My husband supported Trump but after his response to the COVID-19 pandemic he has lost faith, like many other Republicans, in Trump's ability to lead. Trump's presidency has gone beyond partisanship for us and made this election about removing someone who has proven he is incompetent.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on July 04, 2020, 03:47:11 AM
I'm almost tempted to vote for Trump just to see how bad things can possibly get.

Me too. I wanna see the world totally on fire.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on July 04, 2020, 08:08:39 AM
The trick will be ... Biden & who??

Good point.  It is a given that people will actually be voting for Biden's running mate to be president.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mermaid on July 04, 2020, 08:40:16 AM
How is this even a question?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on July 04, 2020, 09:07:44 AM
Personally I think replacing Trump with Biden is like sitting your pants and then changing your shirt.
In thinking about all the presidential choices I have been asked to make over many years, this election offers the worst choices I have ever been given.  Trump thinks America is great.  Of course that's because he's running it.  Biden thinks it's great too, the only problem being that Trump is running it.  He seems to want to return to the Obama years, but Biden is no Obama, and those years are long gone.  Granted I think Obama was one of our better presidents since I've been old enough to vote.  But we've had so many shitty presidents that saying Obama was one of the better ones is hardly a ringing endorsement.  In fact it's a mostly worthless endorsement.   

Try to look past the partisan bullshit and look at America as a country right now.  Take away the Republicans and the Democrats and just look at the country.   If you don't think anything needs to change, then either Trump or Biden is a good choice.  If you think it needs change, realize that it didn't just get this way 4 years ago.  It's been a slow process for at least 50 years, and any candidate who doesn't advocate serious change is telling me that he sees the country as OK. 

I've lived through a lot of years in my early life that seemed like America was pretty great.  Flawed for sure, but great by comparison to a lot of other countries.  Today, I don't see a great country.  I see a bickering country festering with self hatred putting more energy into fucking the other guy than creating a better environment for everyone.  I won't be around much longer, but taking solace in the fact that I'm leaving the country in better shape than I found it is not going to be one of my dying thoughts.  I will have happy thoughts, thank goodness, but that just won't be one of them.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on July 04, 2020, 09:14:06 AM
How is this even a question?

Good point.  During the Democratic Primary an effort was made to ensure we saw all 20 candidates.  Now that the major party primaries are over, we are only supposed to see two candidates.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mermaid on July 04, 2020, 10:14:14 AM
Good point.  During the Democratic Primary an effort was made to ensure we saw all 20 candidates.  Now that the major party primaries are over, we are only supposed to see two candidates.
I see one candidate.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 04, 2020, 10:42:37 AM
I see one candidate.

Hillary Clinton? ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 04, 2020, 11:14:10 AM
"Black people who were never slaves are fighting White people who were never Nazis over a Confederate statue erected by Democrats, because Democrats can’t stand their own history anymore.  This is somehow Trump’s fault.  Interesting." ... best comment on the Internet.  LARPing by crisis actors.  Probably triple agents like Robert Maxwell.

Never voted for Trump.  Never will.  But y'all need to step back from the drug stash you bought for 4th of July ;-)

I have decided I am too old to vote.  If I were voting, a 3rd party candidate would be my only choice.  Any 3rd party candidate.

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that." - Abraham Lincoln

Trump is waiting for the Darwin Award Democrats to fire on Ft Sumpter again.  He is tempting the Dems, the Dems aren't tempting him.  What Lincoln was doing.  "Go ahead, make my day" - Trump and Lincoln

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flt9K8vlJGE

"The deletion of historical memory and the renunciation of the heroes of the past paves the way for replacing the United States of America with something new. Maybe the Union of Soviet States of America?" ... UCSA ... Union of Chinese States of America?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 04, 2020, 03:01:42 PM
Good point.  During the Democratic Primary an effort was made to ensure we saw all 20 candidates.  Now that the major party primaries are over, we are only supposed to see two candidates.
That's sorta how primaries work.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on July 04, 2020, 03:32:51 PM
#ImWithHer
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Sal1981 on July 04, 2020, 07:42:56 PM
Here's a whataboutism: What about #Unity2020 ?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 04, 2020, 10:52:49 PM
Here's a whataboutism: What about #Unity2020 ?

The two party system is the natural development of a democratic republican system of power sharing.  People alone are weak.  So they form parties, churches, companies, unions to magnify their competitive power (and individuals lose their personal power to do this).  Eventually, in a city or a great nation, a nearly balanced two party system is formed because third parties are weak and never get anywhere (sorry).  This is partly because of the US system (Presidential system with pluralistic representation) say compared to Italy (Parliamentary system with proportional representation).  The problem with parliamentary systems is that you are often forced into coalitions governments ... because the polity is too divided.

One can argue as some do, that a parliamentary system is better, that proportional representation is better.  But the name "Unity2020" is utopian.  If there was just one person in your country, and they weren't schizoid, then you will have unity ;-)  Otherwise, given the desire for power and money, unequal competition will result.  And of course we have the one party dictatorship model of China.  Unity by bayonet.  The reality of human nature is that I am willing to put a shiv between your ribs to keep what I have, and get what I don't have ;-(
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 05, 2020, 12:24:48 AM
Jason Harvester, correct me if I'm wrong but if memory serves right, you don't vote?  I think you opened the same thread before the previous election and before the one before that with the same 'why do we have two parties only' rant?

Yeah I get it. Everyone gets it. However, if you don't run for a cave after every election and live there till the next one, what is so surprising about all this? What's the deal? How does Trump vs someone confuse you under all these circumstances?



Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on July 05, 2020, 03:20:03 AM
So, now that the Democrats have picked their candidate, we are supposed to pretend the third parties don't exist and concentrate ust on these two.

Let's have it,  stump for your preferred candidate.

Personally I think replacing Trump with Biden is like sitting your pants and then changing your shirt.

Well today is not the time to vote Libertarian. That party wants to act like Trump on steroids and burn everything and that means all the socialist programs, environmental and civil protections out the door. They even want to let the private sector run many things and have a naive approach to free trade and believe private companies are angels and won't screw us all to death.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on July 05, 2020, 08:52:54 AM
Actually I do vote, regularly, third party.

Of course "this is the most important election evar" just like in 1972, 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012, and 2016, so we can't afford to consider third parties.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 05, 2020, 08:53:19 AM
Well today is not the time to vote Libertarian. That party wants to act like Trump on steroids and burn everything and that means all the socialist programs, environmental and civil protections out the door. They even want to let the private sector run many things and have a naive approach to free trade and believe private companies are angels and won't screw us all to death.

Why I am not a Republican

Why I am not a Democrat?  Running everything from the center, by committee.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Sal1981 on July 05, 2020, 11:21:18 AM
The two party system is the natural development of a democratic republican system of power sharing.  People alone are weak.  So they form parties, churches, companies, unions to magnify their competitive power (and individuals lose their personal power to do this).  Eventually, in a city or a great nation, a nearly balanced two party system is formed because third parties are weak and never get anywhere (sorry).  This is partly because of the US system (Presidential system with pluralistic representation) say compared to Italy (Parliamentary system with proportional representation).  The problem with parliamentary systems is that you are often forced into coalitions governments ... because the polity is too divided.
You write that as if coalition governments are bad. I view them as a net positive because of the vibrant discourse and *gasp* concessions and *double gasp* compromises the elected official are willing to make. This in turn results in genuine discussion in public - I'm wary of people talking about disagreements between political parties as if nothing gets done.

One can argue as some do, that a parliamentary system is better, that proportional representation is better.  But the name "Unity2020" is utopian.  If there was just one person in your country, and they weren't schizoid, then you will have unity ;-)  Otherwise, given the desire for power and money, unequal competition will result.  And of course we have the one party dictatorship model of China.  Unity by bayonet.  The reality of human nature is that I am willing to put a shiv between your ribs to keep what I have, and get what I don't have ;-(
#Unity2020 was, in large part, started by Bret Weinstein and has gotten a life of its own apart from its originators. I wouldn't dismiss it that easily offhand. We'll see if this rock will fly.

The people who only desire power and wealth are simpletons.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 05, 2020, 12:15:42 PM
Actually I do vote, regularly, third party.

Of course "this is the most important election evar" just like in 1972, 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012, and 2016, so we can't afford to consider third parties.
Do libertarians have any better policies this year than they did in 2016, 2012, etc?  Got a plan for pandemics?  Global warming?  Universal healthcare?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 05, 2020, 03:13:40 PM
You write that as if coalition governments are bad. I view them as a net positive because of the vibrant discourse and *gasp* concessions and *double gasp* compromises the elected official are willing to make. This in turn results in genuine discussion in public - I'm wary of people talking about disagreements between political parties as if nothing gets done.
#Unity2020 was, in large part, started by Bret Weinstein and has gotten a life of its own apart from its originators. I wouldn't dismiss it that easily offhand. We'll see if this rock will fly.

The people who only desire power and wealth are simpletons.

Yes to the first part.  Per Bismarck if you don't like how sausage is made, you won't like how legislation is made ;-)  If you don't want disagreements, have a dictator, who is not schizoid.

Bret Weinstein was cucked by the degenerates at Evergreen College.  Like 2016 when Bernie was cucked by a couple of BLM bitches.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 05, 2020, 03:15:31 PM
Do libertarians have any better policies this year than they did in 2016, 2012, etc?  Got a plan for pandemics?  Global warming?  Universal healthcare?

Not a libertarian, but if you define that as a completely random free person, having any plan for anything is a contradiction.  A totally free person (lunatic?) isn't concerned about any collective problems.  They don't even have any concerns of their own.  Think of a beach bum in California during an LSD trip.

Sorry Dems, Trump made a pretty good speech yesterday, best since the State of the Union.  NYT of course, the former employer of Karl Marx, didn't like it.

Elite opinion?  If I can make a million dollars as a Democrat, I will support them.  If I can make a million dollars as a Republican, I will support them.  Complete degenerates, think Caligula.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on July 05, 2020, 05:01:40 PM
Do libertarians have any better policies this year than they did in 2016, 2012, etc?  Got a plan for pandemics?  Global warming?  Universal healthcare?

Yes.

I greatly want everyone to have access to affordable quality healthcare, so I want to find the reason the costs have risen faster than inflation and cut those reasons out.  The funny thing is if I am right about the reasons you will accuse me of wanting to prevent the poor from accessing healthcare while I attack the reasons.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 05, 2020, 05:07:22 PM
Well, I suppose you have no choice but to keep your genius plan secret then.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 06, 2020, 04:10:27 AM
Actually I do vote, regularly, third party.

Of course "this is the most important election evar" just like in 1972, 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012, and 2016, so we can't afford to consider third parties.

My mistake. But then yeah, not that different than not voting. Because voting is not just about the party you want to vote for but also about the election system, the other parties, the hierarchy of the parties and the parties you don't want to vote for. Which is bullshit in theory and I absolutely agree with you on that.

However, it doesn't work that way. There is a fundemantal flaw in the understanding of concepts of 'democracy', 'constitution' or 'freedom' every where around the world but it seems that in the States it is another dimension because majority of Americans -from opposing groups- overestimate themselves, their culture, the system... That's a big mistake. It has a very big price.

This election is different. I'm not discussing if it is important for you or why you think they all have the same importance. Because if you can count all of those dates from the past 50 years like throwing confetti from a bag while voting for a third party, then Trump winning or losing doesn't really change anything for you. 

Jason, when people say 'we we will go 20 years backwards' they don't mean we are going to land in 90s like in science fiction movies. These people are hell bent on to change your system completely. I know it sounds comical to you now but going backwards in these circumstances, with these dynamics mean turning a lot of places to old Detroit in the States. And eventually breaking/dividing the United States of America.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 06, 2020, 09:14:51 AM
Elections are US permissive (fake) or Australian mandatory (fake).  The point of police is to protect the Elite.  The point of elections is to pacify the simps.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on July 06, 2020, 11:59:47 PM
I never thought I'd be in agreement with Draconic, but:
People that vote for libertarians are less respectable than any other voters, in my opinion. Yes, even less respectable than republican voters.

Plus, if you really think voting 3rd party is a good choice, let me offer you this suggestion that would do more to benefit you as well as our country. Try jerking off on to the voting booth and walk out without even voting. I guarantee it will have more of an outcome than voting for Jo Jorgensen or any other 3rd party candidate.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on July 07, 2020, 12:21:55 AM
"I'm Jo Jorgensen and I want you to know that I believe my job is to do nothing"
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on July 07, 2020, 02:32:00 AM
I never thought I'd be in agreement with Draconic, but:
People that vote for libertarians are less respectable than any other voters, in my opinion. Yes, even less respectable than republican voters.

Plus, if you really think voting 3rd party is a good choice, let me offer you this suggestion that would do more to benefit you as well as our country. Try jerking off on to the voting booth and walk out without even voting. I guarantee it will have more of an outcome than voting for Jo Jorgensen or any other 3rd party candidate.

I don't know. I often feel that if I had been an American., I would be very tempted to vote on neither Republicans nor democrats. But I think I would vote, third party if I found one that fit my wants better.

Would that vote ever make a difference? Probably no more than your specific vote ever would. Probably no less either. And if the only reason why it's concidered foolish to vote third party is that nobody ever votes third party,... Well that's the problem right there innit?

Look, I am in no place to get high and mighty. I think our country has the record of any industrialized western country of going without an elected government.

But I respect people who vote for voting, no more no less than that. And whatever choice, I respect making a choice equally. Even if one option aligns more than the other.

It's just that... Maybe I'm still young. But this American system does quite often seem to lead to a choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. And no matter how much change y'all seem to want, you're just going to repeat that cycle every four years. And if that don't change,  how can anything else?

Break the wheel, khaleesi.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on July 07, 2020, 06:55:29 AM
I don't have libertarian values. I don't see protecting property rights, promoting laissez-faire capitalism and maximizing individual autonomy as the primary purpose of government. I prefer a strong government devoted to maximizing the well-being of its citizens than minimal government. I would join a third-party based on human-centered capitalism where humanity is more important than money; the unit of an economy is each person, not each dollar; and markets exist to serve our common goals and values.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on July 07, 2020, 10:29:13 AM
I don't know. I often feel that if I had been an American., I would be very tempted to vote on neither Republicans nor democrats. But I think I would vote, third party if I found one that fit my wants better.

Would that vote ever make a difference? Probably no more than your specific vote ever would. Probably no less either. And if the only reason why it's concidered foolish to vote third party is that nobody ever votes third party,... Well that's the problem right there innit?

Look, I am in no place to get high and mighty. I think our country has the record of any industrialized western country of going without an elected government.

But I respect people who vote for voting, no more no less than that. And whatever choice, I respect making a choice equally. Even if one option aligns more than the other.

It's just that... Maybe I'm still young. But this American system does quite often seem to lead to a choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. And no matter how much change y'all seem to want, you're just going to repeat that cycle every four years. And if that don't change,  how can anything else?

Break the wheel, khaleesi.
There needs to be two things to happen in this country, and possibly other countries, but I'm just going to talk for the U.S.

1- There needs to be an abolishment of the party system, all together. No republican party, no democrat party, no 3rd parties. none of it. Just candidates and what they will do.
This will cause a few things to happen: voters will be forced to actually look in to who the candidates are and what they are going to do. Lobbies will also have a harder time bribing candidates, because of instead of bribing the party as a whole, they have to specifically target individuals. It will be more costly for them to spend money on the candidates this way and candidates will be bought out way less frequently.
2- there also needs to be an abolishment of the electoral college. For me, my vote literally doesn't matter. I live in New Jersey. A very "blue" state. Even though I will be voting Biden, it doesn't matter because Biden will win New Jersey no matter what... even if Biden literally shits himself in the debates, NJ will vote Biden.
In red states, no matter what, Trump will win.
It's all about targeting swing states. The fly-over states with no population and no industry... other than Iowa with their corn and Idaho with their potatoes, they have almost nothing. It doesn't matter if Biden or trump campaigns in texas or california or New York.... those states will always vote the way they will vote, but if the candidates target the swing states strategically, they win. And that is bullshit. 
It needs to be individual votes. Not "did you win this state? here is 11 points to your victory!"

Look at this map. When you know which ones are red and which are blue, historically. You know which candidate has "free points towards victory" and then they just need to close the gap in the rest of the places.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3c/Electoral_College_2016.svg/1280px-Electoral_College_2016.svg.png)

These two things need to be legislated. Not just "i'm gonna vote for who I think is the best" when that candidate is a 3rd party candidate.... Because unfortunately going off of the "if everyone voted for who they genuinely thought was the best, we wouldnt have a problem" isn't how shit works. It's not reality. We need a solidified solution. A legislation.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on July 07, 2020, 12:29:06 PM
There needs to be two things to happen in this country, and possibly other countries, but I'm just going to talk for the U.S.

1- There needs to be an abolishment of the party system, all together. No republican party, no democrat party, no 3rd parties. none of it. Just candidates and what they will do.
This will cause a few things to happen: voters will be forced to actually look in to who the candidates are and what they are going to do. Lobbies will also have a harder time bribing candidates, because of instead of bribing the party as a whole, they have to specifically target individuals. It will be more costly for them to spend money on the candidates this way and candidates will be bought out way less frequently.
2- there also needs to be an abolishment of the electoral college. For me, my vote literally doesn't matter. I live in New Jersey. A very "blue" state. Even though I will be voting Biden, it doesn't matter because Biden will win New Jersey no matter what... even if Biden literally shits himself in the debates, NJ will vote Biden.
In red states, no matter what, Trump will win.
It's all about targeting swing states. The fly-over states with no population and no industry... other than Iowa with their corn and Idaho with their potatoes, they have almost nothing. It doesn't matter if Biden or trump campaigns in texas or california or New York.... those states will always vote the way they will vote, but if the candidates target the swing states strategically, they win. And that is bullshit. 
It needs to be individual votes. Not "did you win this state? here is 11 points to your victory!"

Look at this map. When you know which ones are red and which are blue, historically. You know which candidate has "free points towards victory" and then they just need to close the gap in the rest of the places.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3c/Electoral_College_2016.svg/1280px-Electoral_College_2016.svg.png)

These two things need to be legislated. Not just "i'm gonna vote for who I think is the best" when that candidate is a 3rd party candidate.... Because unfortunately going off of the "if everyone voted for who they genuinely thought was the best, we wouldnt have a problem" isn't how shit works. It's not reality. We need a solidified solution. A legislation.

All very well put and thought out.

But, without any attempts at sounding condescending... Without judgment, ill intent or any malice whatsoever....

Do you think any elected Democrat or republican will enforce that change?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 07, 2020, 12:56:51 PM
A general discussion from elsewhere that is illuminative ...

https://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/883/why-is-proportional-representation-not-considered-in-any-of-the-us-states

In the US proportional representation is based on geography and population.  Not on race, party or ideology.  The general term for problems with this is "malapportionment".  The US House was set up this way in the Constitution.  The US Senate and the WH were not.  The Senate was originally picked by processes in each state, per state legislature or per governor.  By Constitutional amendment, this was changed in regard to the US Senate in 1913.  At that time, senators started to be directly elected by popular vote two in each state.  Originally, the VP was the person with the second highest vote in the Electoral College.  In the case of a tie, there was no rule initially (disastrous in the election of 1800, leading to the fight between Thomas Jefferson, Aaron Burr and the duel between Burr and Hamilton).  There were no political parties per se, but there were strong ideologies at work, party organization was incoherent.  Then in 1804, the 12th Amendment provided that the President and VP are elected separately (no gold ring for #2) and that the Senate will decide ties in the Electoral College.

The application of geographical/population proportional representation trickled slowly into state and local politics as states were formed and their constitutions amended.  It wasn't until the Baker vs Carr decision of the SCOTUS in 1962, that the Federal Constitution was interpreted to mandate US-style proportional representation in the state legislatures. Before that malapportionment was common, with some voting districts having much more power per voter than other districts.  Local politics had kept this cosy arrangement legal.

Proportional representation based on party is the system usually used in Parliamentary democracies.  Israel's system is partly based on ethnicity (Non-Jews are partly disenfranchised) as was White S Africa.  The resolution of ideology representation vs party representation is resolved by new ideologies forming new parties (usually unsuccessfully in the US system).  There is no guarantee that a particular party will have representation in a parliamentary system, if that party is too small or dispersed over constituencies.  And of course the battle continues with gerrymandering of the redistricting process and ideological factions within parties.

The party system in any form of elected government, is a natural development out of variance and competition.  This was true by the 4th national election in the US (and the ennui between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson).  I don't see that ever changing, because it requires changing reality.  Of course in one-party states one is free to attempt to deny reality.  The Electoral College and any other part of the US Constitution can be amended, but that takes action by the government in DC, and agreement by a 75% of the states.  Any attempt to modify the legal pyramid (based on the US Constitution and from there down to local municipalities) requires working within the system.  There are problems with that.

But working outside of the existing legal system (that exists at any one time) is insurrection.  Essentially that is what the Confederacy did, legally state by state, but there was no provision in the US Constitution then or now, to provide for orderly secession.  There had already been a fight over nullification (that a state can directly refuse to support federal law) and the secession movement of 1860 was a continuation of that.  Earlier, SC had tried to nullify a federal law, under slave-holding President Andrew Jackson, and he had threatened to invade SC if they tried.  Sanctuary cities are a present example of nullification.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 07, 2020, 01:08:11 PM
At election time, one is free to imagine candidates one likes better, parties one likes better, or political machinery one likes better.  Which may or may not be related to some desired change to policy (legal marijuana for example).  This blows off steam from the friction of the body politic (how can I benefit myself and my friends and screw my opponents), which the MSM enflames.  The alternative to elections of some sort, or at least confirmation votes of those appointed (members of the President's cabinet or SCOTUS are confirmed by the US Senate) is dictatorship or chaos.  Even in Red China, there must be intense competitions happening within the Communist Party, that are opaque to the Chinese public.  Need I mention Lin Biao?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on July 07, 2020, 09:34:49 PM
All very well put and thought out.

But, without any attempts at sounding condescending... Without judgment, ill intent or any malice whatsoever....

Do you think any elected Democrat or republican will enforce that change?
If we riot, yes.

We either have to, as citizens, make them see profit in it, or see the adverse things that can happen for them, if change doesn't occur. I personally like the latter of the two. Fuck those assholes. They don't care about us... just themselves.

I'm fully in favor of countrywide riots until they buckle.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 07, 2020, 09:41:48 PM
I don't know. I often feel that if I had been an American., I would be very tempted to vote on neither Republicans nor democrats. But I think I would vote, third party if I found one that fit my wants better.

Would that vote ever make a difference? Probably no more than your specific vote ever would. Probably no less either. And if the only reason why it's concidered foolish to vote third party is that nobody ever votes third party,... Well that's the problem right there innit?
In a proportional voting system (or ranked voting), that would work just fine.  But the USA's first-past-the-post voting system is structured to only truly support a two-party system.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 07, 2020, 10:04:06 PM
If we riot, yes.

We either have to, as citizens, make them see profit in it, or see the adverse things that can happen for them, if change doesn't occur. I personally like the latter of the two. Fuck those assholes. They don't care about us... just themselves.

I'm fully in favor of countrywide riots until they buckle.

Yes, there is profit, if on the Soros payroll ;-)  People who are anti-capitalist value ideology, not money.  I don't exactly disapprove though.  I deny the reality of morality, ethics or legality.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 04:06:30 AM
In my opinion, the United States of America is the only country where people could actually collapse a system to build a new one. Actually, this is the second round of THE attempt to change this system which was already started in the past. But it is not a sprint, it's a marathon. You have passed the half mark. It is not just hard protesting either. You need to unite against the right nutters in every part of life from daily life to professional. You could do it actually.

This is not just about politics or elections. All groups against need to meet on a common denominator and stand up for each other. Learn to say NO to every kind of provocation. Boycotts of protests of all kinds. 

If people learned to say no to be manipulated, resisted to be triggered, stop watching/listening any kind of propaganda and unite even without lifting a finger, every politician, party, state size corporate around the world would shit themselves right there and then and we would have smelled it from where we sit. LOL

What a dream...pffft

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 06:28:08 AM
If we riot, yes.

We either have to, as citizens, make them see profit in it, or see the adverse things that can happen for them, if change doesn't occur. I personally like the latter of the two. Fuck those assholes. They don't care about us... just themselves.

I'm fully in favor of countrywide riots until they buckle.

Might want to step it up to actual domestic terrorism.
Honestly, if those are your means, you'll practically need a full fledged civil war.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 10:24:18 AM
That's neither the intention, nor the means but the eventual end if forced for survival.

Not just talking about the States. It's good advice to everyone who thinks they're untouchable about not to get too comfortable with the popcorn and the feeling of fake safety.

After all, you westerners are generally, really, really stupid in the end.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 11:03:25 AM


After all, you westerners are generally, really, really stupid in the end.

That can be extended to all of humanity. IMHO.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Sal1981 on July 08, 2020, 11:32:04 AM
After all, you westerners are generally, really, really stupid in the end.

That can be extended to all of humanity. IMHO.

Meanwhile trying to make sense of the chaos.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 11:58:17 AM

That can be extended to all of humanity. IMHO.

See, we can't all be Central Asian horsemen with compound bows and big mustaches ;-)  Of course the Han Chinese (thru the Mulan cartoon) would tell you that those kinds of people are "problematic".
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 11:59:21 AM
In my opinion, the United States of America is the only country where people could actually collapse a system to build a new one. Actually, this is the second round of THE attempt to change this system which was already started in the past. But it is not a sprint, it's a marathon. You have passed the half mark. It is not just hard protesting either. You need to unite against the right nutters in every part of life from daily life to professional. You could do it actually.

This is not just about politics or elections. All groups against need to meet on a common denominator and stand up for each other. Learn to say NO to every kind of provocation. Boycotts of protests of all kinds. 

If people learned to say no to be manipulated, resisted to be triggered, stop watching/listening any kind of propaganda and unite even without lifting a finger, every politician, party, state size corporate around the world would shit themselves right there and then and we would have smelled it from where we sit. LOL

What a dream...pffft

You are such an idealist.  And think that the US is special, just like R or D politicians.  Who knew?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 12:00:14 PM
Might want to step it up to actual domestic terrorism.
Honestly, if those are your means, you'll practically need a full fledged civil war.

Dems gotta do what Dems gotta do.  How about civil war in Belgium?  Sound good?  No?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 12:01:17 PM

That can be extended to all of humanity. IMHO.

Not only when one part describes themselves as the epitome of that humanity and the rest as the other, sweety.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 12:03:42 PM
That's neither the intention, nor the means but the eventual end if forced for survival.

Not just talking about the States. It's good advice to everyone who thinks they're untouchable about not to get too comfortable with the popcorn and the feeling of fake safety.

After all, you westerners are generally, really, really stupid in the end.

In the end, all individuals fail at survival.  Just ask my parents et al.  Whether this "quantum meme" of culture continues rolling along is secondary, but is everything to collectivists.  That and the "salt boy" wants to control the ocean.  From time to time, in spite of people trying to understand it or to prevent it or to start it or control it ... major "solitary waves" happen.  And famous people, who didn't create the big wave, but who surf the wave, get to act like they are in charge, not Chaos (oldest Greek god).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 12:04:45 PM
That can be extended to all of humanity. IMHO.


Meanwhile trying to make sense of the chaos.

Sounds impossible to me.  Isn't that a self contradictory sentence?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 12:05:46 PM
You are such an idealist.  And think that the US is special, just like R or D politicians.  Who knew?

And you are such a moron but I don't slap it with you. No, I don't think the US is special, I just know it is a concept -like too much people on earth- more than a country and trying to describe you some bits you can't see. I wish you would listen. At least a bit. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 12:08:02 PM
Not only when one part describes themselves as the epitome of that humanity and the rest as the other, sweety.

Everyone is part of their own master race, population of one.  Whether they group into larger groups is guaranteed, because it is survival, just as you say.  A game we all lose eventually.  Think of the world as "Ship of Fools" all fighting for the non-functional life boats, while much more divided than into crew vs passengers but men vs women & children.  Mortality is hard to think about individually, let alone collectively.  Tribes rise and fall, but the individuals in every tribe are doomed.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 12:12:27 PM
And you are such a moron but I don't slap it to you. No, I don't think the US is special, I just know it is a concept -like too much people on earth- more than a country and trying to describe you some bits you can't see. I wish you would listen. At least a bit.

So you don't think we are special as people, but possess a political "secret sauce" that can be implemented by any ethnic group or mix of ethnic groups?  Vladimir Putin and Emperor Xi beg to differ.

You think, I think, that America is special, other than I happen to live here?  If I were born in Germany, and an adult in Nazi times, I should support the Third Reich ... same with any other country or time.

Yes, there are too many people, but who says?  If people are devalued (as I often argue) then population should be reduced, to reduce liability.  If people are valued, then more people is an asset.  Nauru vs China?  Of course, it is hard to understand another, but we try.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Sal1981 on July 08, 2020, 12:13:52 PM
Sounds impossible to me.  Isn't that a self contradictory sentence?
I admit "trying" is doing the heavy lifting in that sentence.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 12:22:40 PM
I admit "trying" is doing the heavy lifting in that sentence.

Would you believe ... trying to make sense of a civil war/world war?  That isn't chaos, that is deliberate.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Sal1981 on July 08, 2020, 12:32:58 PM
Would you believe ... trying to make sense of a civil war/world war?  That isn't chaos, that is deliberate.
I could probably trace the underpinnings for a civil war or a world war and understand it.

My point was more of a less-than-salient attempt at a point about the senselessness and indecipherability  of reality. I'm not as optimistic as physicists - or what have you - attempting to explain it, or that any oné person can hold all this shit in their head simultaneously. We specialize for a pretty damn good reason.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 12:34:56 PM
I could probably trace the underpinnings for a civil war or a world war and understand it.

My point was more of a less-than-salient attempt at a point about the senselessness and indecipherability  of reality. I'm not as optimistic as physicists - or what have you - attempting to explain it, or that any oné person can hold all this shit in their head simultaneously. We specialize for a pretty damn good reason.

This is why people make up ideologies.  We put together a pet system of meaning, and then force fit events to it.  Revisionism isn't just for historians.  The meaning of current events is clear, if you are a Marxist or a Capitalist.  Centrists on the other hand ...

The US is in the final throws of inevitable change that will result in national communism - if you are a Stalinist
The US and the rest of the world is in the final throws of inevitable change that will result in international communism - if you are a Trot.
The US is a hegemon with many competitors, let free competition happen so that the market can decide - if you are a US capitalist.
France is the political and cultural capital of humanity - Jacobins in Paris shortly before the guillotine terminated them

“They think they will come to power.  That will never happen of course.  They will be lined up against the wall and shot.” - Yuri Bezmenov talking about the “useful idiots”.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 01:39:52 PM
Not only when one part describes themselves as the epitome of that humanity and the rest as the other, sweety.

The fact That relatively few people who live in 'better conditions' tend to think like that because of those conditions, doesn' t make those in 'worse conditions' smarter. Were the places reversed, I bet the same thoughts would be held by the others. And in fact, group think is prevalent throughout the globe.

Because in general people are stupid, selfish and in no way shape or form 'inherently good' or altruistic. All people. No matter where 'power' resides. Be it west, east, south or north.

We suck. We can deal with that. Or we can't.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 01:44:31 PM
Dems gotta do what Dems gotta do.  How about civil war in Belgium?  Sound good?  No?

Sounds plausible. :( more than a few grenades have exploded in my city. Though they are suspected of being drug-related instead of politics.
Then again we are the epitome of artificialness when countries are concerned.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 02:13:01 PM
Sounds plausible. :( more than a few grenades have exploded in my city. Though they are suspected of being drug-related instead of politics.
Then again we are the epitome of artificialness when countries are concerned.

We can hope it is only drug crime.  But when some political party lines up with the local criminal element, that creates a new problem.  Now you have both SJWs and killers working together.  Why were the French royals executed?  Because they were in conspiracy with foreign powers, to regain power.  That was a bad idea.  What if in 1788, the French Left wanted the Turks to invade France to help defeat the royalists?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 02:14:57 PM
The fact That relatively few people who live in 'better conditions' tend to think like that because of those conditions, doesn' t make those in 'worse conditions' smarter. Were the places reversed, I bet the same thoughts would be held by the others. And in fact, group think is prevalent throughout the globe.

Because in general people are stupid, selfish and in no way shape or form 'inherently good' or altruistic. All people. No matter where 'power' resides. Be it west, east, south or north.

We suck. We can deal with that. Or we can't.

Yeah, the thing is the fact that the person who wrote his post and the person who liked it, are white heterosexual males talking about 'oh some people bad and stupid some or not'.

I've made a decision to act like a human in this forum, and I'm gonna stick to that as much as I can. But you are so fucking DUMB and CLUELESS about real life, sometimes I really have no idea how to act.

And this is not something I -or anyone- could explain in a post. 

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 02:25:52 PM
You are full of yourself?  Nah, inconceivable! (you know who you are)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhXjcZdk5QQ

You people are just ... funny villains.  Smart enough to not start a land war in Asia, but not smart enough to avoid the poisoned chalice.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 04:48:23 PM
Yeah, the thing is the fact that the person who wrote his post and the person who liked it, are white heterosexual males talking about 'oh some people bad and stupid some or not'.
Not only when one part describes themselves as the epitome of that humanity and the rest as the other, sweety.

Alright then...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 05:25:10 PM


Alright then...

OK. If it is not please tell me.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 05:27:08 PM
This post is dedicated to Jason Harvestdancer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8scSwaKbE64
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 05:53:02 PM
OK. If it is not please tell me.

No, thanks. I think it is fine. Wouldn't know what I could contribute to that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 06:03:34 PM
No, thanks. I think it is fine. Wouldn't know what I could contribute to that.

NO, It's NOT FINE. And you perfectly know what you contribute to or not. Let me spell it for you: LGBT+
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 06:17:21 PM
NO, It's NOT FINE. And you perfectly know what you contribute to or not. Let me spell it for you: LGBT+

Okay, now you're just plain starting to lose me. I'm talking about contributing to the conversation you and I are having. Not sure what exactly you are getting at here.

Edit: Just saw your three posts in "The Last Person to post wins Episode VIII". Guessing you being drunk might have something to do with this miscommunication?
No worries. Enjoy the buzz, will see your posts post drunkness.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on July 08, 2020, 07:12:58 PM
My electoral calculus is pretty straightforward -- the Democrats started off with the simple fact that nearly any of the candidates down to the third tier would be a better president than Trump has been.  I'd've been perfectly happy to vote for Sanders, Warren, Harris, Buttigieg -- the only ones that would have given me pause were Gabbard, Williamson and Bloomberg.  And I will be perfectly happy to vote for Biden this fall.  First choice?  No.  Better than the alternative?  By lightyears.  Simply repairing our relationship with the other Western democracies will be worth it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Sal1981 on July 09, 2020, 11:41:13 AM
You are full of yourself?  Nah, inconceivable! (you know who you are)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhXjcZdk5QQ

You people are just ... funny villains.  Smart enough to not start a land war in Asia, but not smart enough to avoid the poisoned chalice.


You've chosen your poison?

Anyways progress has intermediary steps, in most cases, much like trying to jump up a wall, when you can use the fucking stairs to get up. Get Trump out of the White House.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 09, 2020, 12:20:00 PM
Get all politicians out of Washington.  Return to Crown Colony status with King George III, Huzzah!

"TRUMP FINALLY DEPLOYS FEDS TO CRUSH CRIME SURGE, NEW POLLS SHOWS BLM RIOTS LEAD TO TRUMP LANDSLIDE" .. Federal cops, not National Guard.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 09, 2020, 05:54:35 PM
My electoral calculus is pretty straightforward -- the Democrats started off with the simple fact that nearly any of the candidates down to the third tier would be a better president than Trump has been.
Mine isn't so much calculus as it is basic math (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/506549-jill-biden-promises-if-bidens-elected-no-more-betsy-devos).  While this primary process didn't go how I wanted (I didn't want petroleum flakes) and was kinda sketchy besides, I can't deny that Biden's a lot better than the alternative and perhaps some good can come out of it (https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/506432-sanders-biden-climate-task-force-calls-for-carbon-free-electricity).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 14, 2020, 07:52:07 PM
"White House Folds On Decision Barring Foreign Students From Online-Classes-Only This Fall" ... good, the ICE decision was hasty, even if (not) all out of state students are Chinese.

"Solomon: Joe Biden's Energy Adviser Aided Kremlin Nuclear Agenda" ... still covering up Uranium One, and blaming it on Trump

"Biden Unveils $2 Trillion Plan To Move US To "100% Clean Energy" By 2035" ... Environment Czar AOC?  Michael Moore already showed this is a scam (unfortunately). "A chicken in every pot, and a Tesla in every garage." ... another Tesla ran into the back of a stopped police car while on auto.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 15, 2020, 03:10:02 PM
Trump flails and fails against Biden (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/difficult-attack-vanilla-trump-s-throwing-everything-biden-nothing-sticks-n1233097)

Quote
President Donald Trump and his campaign have spent months deploying a series of attacks depicting Joe Biden as weak, unfit and a tool of leftists.

But as Biden rises in the polls, it's becoming increasingly clear that the attacks aren't sticking. So Trump's mission to define Biden to voters has proven difficult.
I've seen some of the negative ads and so far it's just basic brain-dead republican talking points.  "Radical leftist who will increase taxes and create burdensome regulations!"  It tellingly omits exactly which policies are radical (policies that are watered-down versions of stuff our European allies accomplished decades ago) and who considers them to be radical, who these taxes will mainly apply to (it's fun to watch people who make 20k a year be outraged by the existence of estate taxes and capital gains taxes), and what problems these regulations are designed to address.

My favorite anti-Biden smear so far is that he's some super far-left commie.  Oh man, those are real gut-busters.

Trump really went all in on statues, which is weird considering most Americans' concerns are far more mundane.  Simple stuff like not dying because some idiot can't cover his face, not getting evicted, getting back into the workforce without becoming a casualty of it, and access to affordable healthcare.  Problems that Trump and his buddies have never experienced in their entire silver-spoon lives.

It's the economy, stupid!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 15, 2020, 04:25:49 PM
Trump flails and fails against Biden (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/difficult-attack-vanilla-trump-s-throwing-everything-biden-nothing-sticks-n1233097)
I've seen some of the negative ads and so far it's just basic brain-dead republican talking points.  "Radical leftist who will increase taxes and create burdensome regulations!"  It tellingly omits exactly which policies are radical (policies that are watered-down versions of stuff our European allies accomplished decades ago) and who considers them to be radical, who these taxes will mainly apply to (it's fun to watch people who make 20k a year be outraged by the existence of estate taxes and capital gains taxes), and what problems these regulations are designed to address.

My favorite anti-Biden smear so far is that he's some super far-left commie.  Oh man, those are real gut-busters.

Trump really went all in on statues, which is weird considering most Americans' concerns are far more mundane.  Simple stuff like not dying because some idiot can't cover his face, not getting evicted, getting back into the workforce without becoming a casualty of it, and access to affordable healthcare.  Problems that Trump and his buddies have never experienced in their entire silver-spoon lives.

It's the economy, stupid!

Nope, Joe Biden isn't a communist.  He will be a ventriloquism dummy for commies AOC, BLM and Bernie Sanders.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 15, 2020, 04:28:21 PM
"Kanye West Is Reportedly Pulling Out Of Presidential Race After Polling At Just 2% In National Survey" ... sad, guess BPDM (Black Politicians Don't Matter) is a thing.

"Police Say Texas A&M Student Who Found Racist Notes On His Car Put Them There" ... so many KKK out there (not) the Dems have to fake it.

"Another Poll Finds Biden Beating Trump - Except Most Surveyed Believe 'Silent Majority' Will Hand President Win" ... CIA will fix the election, as they have since 1960.  CIA has done a great job preventing Americans from running their own country ;-))

"Over A Third Of Americans Believe Biden Is Incapable Of Debating Trump" ... those are the Republicans.  So do Independents or Democrats even have an IQ above 80?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 16, 2020, 01:26:27 PM
"Biden campaign responds to Police association jumping ship, endorsing Trump" ... if I were my nephews, and Biden's house caught on fire or was broke into I would stay at the station with my coffee and donuts ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on July 18, 2020, 04:14:40 PM
I suppose since third parties in general and the Libertarian Party in particular are so bad I have to choose between a mentally challenged senile pedophile sex offender and a mentally challenged senile pedophile sex offender.  Which senile sex offender is better?  I really don't know.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 18, 2020, 04:54:34 PM
I suppose since third parties in general and the Libertarian Party in particular are so bad I have to choose between a mentally challenged senile pedophile sex offender and a mentally challenged senile pedophile sex offender.  Which senile sex offender is better?  I really don't know.

Sex isn't a sin ;-)  Senility comes to all who live long enough.  Old people just hope we don't make fools of ourselves before we go ;-))

I usually didn't vote by party when I was still voting.  I voted for the individual, with a nod to the party being part of the whole package.  I have voted for the lesser of two evils, but I disavow that now, why I voted Gary Johnson in 2016 (my daughter did too).  Please one and all, consider politics to be a particularly vile spectator sport.  Unless you are in office, taking bribes and making false promises, you aren't really playing.  Bear baiting and cock fighting are more civilized.

Our system is the worst of the Romans combined with the worst of the Greeks.  The Greek part being a contradiction ... Plato's Republic (aka Guardians, hence the name of the vile Left newspaper) combined with the democracy he totally opposed.

"BIDEN AND TRUMP BOTH CLAIM FOREIGN INTERFERENCE??! SOO NO ONE WILL BELIEVE THE ELECTION RESULTS" ... there is no truth, just lies!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on July 19, 2020, 10:38:38 AM
Oh this outcome is going to be difficult.  if the margin of victory is less than the number of potentially contested votes both sides will not only claim the other side cheated they will also claim foreign influence.  Biden will say Trump is backed by the Russians and Trump will say Biden is backed by the Chinese.

By the way, how many elections did the US interfere with around the world?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 19, 2020, 10:52:48 AM
Oh this outcome is going to be difficult.  if the margin of victory is less than the number of potentially contested votes both sides will not only claim the other side cheated they will also claim foreign influence.  Biden will say Trump is backed by the Russians and Trump will say Biden is backed by the Chinese.

By the way, how many elections did the US interfere with around the world?

Satan backs both parties.  The Chinese and Russians are innocent ;-)

"ANTIFA LEFTISTS TORCH PORTLAND POLICE UNION IN NIGHT 52 OF RIOTS, MEDIA BLAMES TRUMP AND POLICE" ... Portland is queer ;-)  The mayor is also the chief of police.  No separation of powers.  Also I suspect that the mayor is the local head of AntiFa.  Arson is protest?  Yes, all Black male crimes are reparations ;-) ... but why is Black on Black crime the majority of their many crimes?  Yes, White cops make you take drugs.  Just ask George Floyd.

Yes the mayor of Portland is in charge of the WH ... sure, wait until you get over your DTs, druggie.

Again, N Ireland is the model.  Sinn Féin = DNC, IRA = AntiFa.

My daughter and I agree that the Feds should have uniforms, so you can tell who you are dealing with.  Marked cars also.  But the uniform should be Judge Dredd style.  And armed with flame throwers.  That way they can go to registered Dem voter homes, and eliminate the commie and Covid infections at once (sarc)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5tFAb53VwA

If you see Judge Dred approach, you will not try to resist arrest like George Floyd ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qolk_rDA9xU
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Rosycheeked_rebel on July 19, 2020, 04:46:47 PM
NULL
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 19, 2020, 05:40:50 PM
A huge chunk of people from the left are still planning on writing in Bernie or whoever, and making it known getting rid of Trump will not be the end all be it. But a lot of them have drunk the Biden Kool-Aid. This man will not last a year in office.
What is this based on?  Gut feelings?  Cause I'm looking at fairly recent polls that have about 87% of Bernie voters voting for Biden (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/upshot/democrats-united-poll-election.html) at the end of the day.  I mean, FFS it would take a pretty bizarre Bernie supporter to prefer Bernie completely out of the picture over the Bernie-Biden taskforce.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 19, 2020, 05:54:19 PM
And before I forget, some polls have Biden leading by 15 points (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/19/biden-trump-polls-matchup-369261), much more than Clinton.  I was getting some 2016 deja vu B.C. (before coronavirus) but this crisis has changed all that.  Trump's favorability has gone into the toilet, and while he will still capture 40-44ish percent of the votes (gotta love the poorly educated), that's not enough to win.

Trump's strength is 2016 is that he was a political unknown with a populist message and people were fed up with the status quo.  In 2020, Trump is very much defined - and in extremely unflattering terms - that populist message is nowhere to be found, and Trumpism is basically associated with injecting bleach, spouting alternative facts, and cheering for police brutality and secret police.  It's not a good look.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 19, 2020, 06:00:30 PM
You people still believe polls?  And I am a Nigerian prince.

"Mail In Voting BACKFIRES On Democrats, Thousands Of Ballots From Young And Minority Voters REJECTE.." … remember when everyone was scandalized by the broken Iowa caucus Hillary made app?  100,000 mail in ballots weren't counted in the Dem California primary!  The primaries are invalid, so how valid can the general election get??

"More Voter Fraud EXPOSED, Mailman Pleads Guilty, Cat Gets Voter Forms, 2020 Chaos Has ALREADY Begu.." … my cats should get voter forms.  They are smarter than any D/R simian.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Sal1981 on July 20, 2020, 09:52:04 AM
You people still believe polls?  And I am a Nigerian prince.
Yeah, why even do statistics? :blahblah:
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 20, 2020, 10:04:16 AM
Yeah, why even do statistics? :blahblah:

Deplorables (voters) fail arithmetic.  Using statistics completely baffles them.  Very useful for politics.

There are honest figures and graphs, but never in politics.  Politics is where fact and truth go to die.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Sal1981 on July 20, 2020, 11:23:34 AM
Opinion polls is a sample size of the population of how they will vote. People know this.

 Politics isn't even about facts or truth, that's a category error on your part - but you use this as a rhetorical device, miserably.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on July 20, 2020, 07:40:39 PM
Interesting news item today -- Ohio's former governor, Republican John Kasich, is expected to speak in support of the convention nominee this fall.  At the Democratic convention (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ohio-republican-kasich-expected-to-back-biden-at-democratic-convention-2020-07-20).

Kasich is still popular here in Ohio -- hell, I disagree with him up and down the line, but even I have some respect for him.  If he makes it okay for conservative-leaning Independents and non-sociopathic Republicans to vote Democratic, that's very nearly game over.  It certainly should have an effect here in Ohio, which is juuuuuust starting to tilt bluewards anyway.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 20, 2020, 07:52:49 PM
Interesting news item today -- Ohio's former governor, Republican John Kasich, is expected to speak in support of the convention nominee this fall.  At the Democratic convention (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ohio-republican-kasich-expected-to-back-biden-at-democratic-convention-2020-07-20).

Kasich is still popular here in Ohio -- hell, I disagree with him up and down the line, but even I have some respect for him.  If he makes it okay for conservative-leaning Independents and non-sociopathic Republicans to vote Democratic, that's very nearly game over.
It'd be nice for the Republicans as well.  They don't have to go down with the ship and won't be marginalized as Trump loyalists certainly will be.  And truth be told, the Democrats' right-wing isn't all that far from the Republicans' left-wing, if they can make it over there.  From there, they can just portray themselves as centrists and cast Trump as an extremist, rogue element who took over their party and steered it away from its core values.  I dunno if I'd be very convinced by that, but I'm not the one they'd be trying to convince.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on July 20, 2020, 08:02:24 PM
It'd be nice for the Republicans as well.  They don't have to go down with the ship and won't be marginalized as Trump loyalists certainly will be.  And the Democrats' right-wing isn't all that far from the Republicans' left-wing, if they can make it over there.  From there, they can just portray themselves as centrists and cast Trump as an extremist, rogue element who took over their party and steered it away from its core values.  I dunno if I'd be very convinced by that, but I'm not the one they'd be trying to convince.
I disagree with one thing here: Trump is not a rogue element, he's a distillation of what the main Republican party has become over the last 40 years: intolerant, racist, misogynistic, plutocratic, dishonest (even by politicians' standards), irresponsible and hypocritical.  The real tragedy is that it's taken this long for a minority of well-placed Republicans to even notice there's a problem in their ranks.  I mean, yes, glad that it's happening, but they've let the party go so far beyond the edge, I question whether it can be brought back without an actual schism breaking it into two parties.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on July 20, 2020, 08:14:40 PM
I disagree with one thing here: Trump is not a rogue element, he's a distillation of what the main Republican party has become over the last 40 years:
It almost makes me look back in nostalgia remembering William F Buckley.  But that was back in the day when I could actually make some sense out of the conservative agenda.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 20, 2020, 08:24:09 PM
Opinion polls is a sample size of the population of how they will vote. People know this.

 Politics isn't even about facts or truth, that's a category error on your part - but you use this as a rhetorical device, miserably.

It is how the people are chosen, how the questions are phrased.  Back to Commie school for you, comrade ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 20, 2020, 08:26:31 PM
It almost makes me look back in nostalgia remembering William F Buckley.  But that was back in the day when I could actually make some sense out of the conservative agenda.

He expelled the John Birch folks from the Republican party.  He was Catholic.  And he used enough words you could always learn new vocabulary from him ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on July 20, 2020, 10:06:14 PM
It almost makes me look back in nostalgia remembering William F Buckley.  But that was back in the day when I could actually make some sense out of the conservative agenda.
I never thought I'd look back fondly (well, kind of fondly) at William F (fucking!) Buckley.  :)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on July 20, 2020, 11:26:20 PM
I never thought I'd look back fondly (well, kind of fondly) at William F (fucking!) Buckley.  :)
Shit, I never thought I'd look back fondly on Richard M (motherfucker!) Nixon!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 21, 2020, 06:51:17 AM
"America’s “Days of Rage”: The Extensive Left-Wing Bombings & Domestic Terrorism of the 1970s" - Black Panthers, SLA etc.  BLM even has a Weathermen veteran on their board.

"Tucker Carlson Livid; Dismantles The New York Times Over Alleged Plan To Dox Him" - Dems should just go John Wiles Booth
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Sal1981 on July 21, 2020, 09:23:25 AM
It is how the people are chosen, how the questions are phrased.  Back to Commie school for you, comrade ;-)
Wtf are you talking about? If I ask the same question phrased differently a second time, you expect different answers?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 21, 2020, 10:06:29 AM
Wtf are you talking about? If I ask the same question phrased differently a second time, you expect different answers?

It is unfair to shoot fish in a barrel.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 21, 2020, 10:08:44 AM
"McDonald's employees in Detroit walk off job to cheers as part of national strike" … this used to be called a General Strike in communist lingo.  Let all the Dems who still work, go home.  There are plenty of honest non-Dems who need to take those jobs.  Then any unemployed need to be deported to Somalia … I mean Minneapolis.

"Red Bull Fires "Woke" Diversity Directors Who Tried To Push For BLM Support... corporations which have pandered to the Dem IRA … are realizing that this violent revolution might be fatal to their stock prices ..."there will be fewer jobs for communist college graduates in the future.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 21, 2020, 06:03:28 PM
"Civil War 2.0 Is Upon Us, Far Left Breaches Federal Court, Democrats REJECT Federal Jurisdiction"... arrest all Dem members of Congress, announce martial law … suspend all elections.  Put Dem Congressman next to Ms Maxwell, so they can get re-acquainted.

Send in the Army to occupy Portland.

O, I wish I was in the land of commies
Old times there are not forgotten
Look away! Look away!
Look away!  Oregon

Dems, once again, jump the shark as in 1860.

Durham shouldn't wait until after the election to reveal the indictments, if any.  We need to know who is in Jefferson Davis' cabinet in Richmond.

I wouldn't have chosen Trump to play Lincoln, or Biden to play Davis … but you go to war with what you got - Rumsfeld.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Helm_15_conspiracy_theories

https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/this-is-how-the-us-military-would-put-down-an-armed-rebellion
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 21, 2020, 07:14:51 PM
"Top Biden communications aide has history of sexist Twitter posts" … so much like his pussy grabbing boss

"Trump signs order to prevent illegal immigrants from being counted in redrawing of voting districts" … if illegal aliens aren't enfranchised, will there be any Dem voters?

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 22, 2020, 08:02:25 PM
"St. Louis Prosecutor's Office Busted Altering Evidence; Reassembled Non-Operable McCloskey Pistol To Classify As Lethal" … money in 2018 for DA campaigns came from Soros

""Death And Bomb Threats" Made Against China's Embassy In Washington; Beijing Blames Trump" … feel sorry for the guys there and in Houston Consulate who will have to reconstruct lost documents from the shredder

"Trump Authorizes "Surge" Of Federal Agents Into Cities Plagued By Violence, Including Chicago" … Lincoln "surges" Union troops into Federal forts south of the Mason-Dixon Line.

"Philly DA Says He'll Prosecute Trump 'Stormtroopers' Sent To Control BLM Chaos" … another Soros beneficiary

"JPMorgan Managed Millions For Ghislaine Maxwell Despite Booting Epstein In 2013" … banks only exist for money laundering

"Facebook's Neutral "Fact Checkers" Exposed As Ex-CNN Staffers And Democratic Donors" … aka CIA

"NY Riot Cops Disband 'Occupy City Hall' Encampment In Pre-Dawn Raid" … another CHAZ prevented
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 22, 2020, 08:38:26 PM
"Biden ratchets up racism allegations against president, Trump campaign calls claim 'outrageous'" … says Trump is first racist President … uh uh George Washington.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 22, 2020, 08:59:37 PM
Biden gets big donor help (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/16/us/politics/joe-biden-fund-raising.html)

Quote
Former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. raised tens of millions of dollars in the last three months from major donors who gave more than $100,000, relying on some of the Democratic Party’s deepest pockets to sharply shrink President Trump’s financial advantage, according to new federal filings.

Quote
Mr. Biden’s biggest benefactors in the second quarter of 2020, when he became the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, represent a who’s who of billionaires and influencers in Silicon Valley, Hollywood, Wall Street and beyond.
Good?  I suppose so.  Politics is very much a fundraising game, after all.  Though I do wonder what exactly these kind-hearted benefactors expect in return.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on July 23, 2020, 12:49:04 AM
Whoever win, there will be a civil war.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 23, 2020, 10:24:55 AM
There is still time to pray.  I know I am ;-)

A real US civil war will be with nukes, 60 million dead.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on July 23, 2020, 01:40:42 PM
I hear the Trump campaign has already spent nearly a billion dollars! Biden better get busy betimes!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 23, 2020, 05:24:12 PM
I hear the Trump campaign has already spent nearly a billion dollars! Biden better get busy betimes!

Give him all your money, so he can give it all to Bernie.  Bernie needs more houses ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 23, 2020, 05:25:32 PM
"MICRODOSING & THE SUPERNATURAL" ... with breakfast ... maybe goes best with Lucky Charms?  Timothy Leary rides again, and this is why the Left Coast is toast.

"LEFTIST BEATS JOURNALIST INTO SUBMISSION IN RIOTS, JOURNALIST THEN FALSELY BLAMES FEDS FOR ATTACKS" ... all rioters secret SS Republican KKK in disguise!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 30, 2020, 11:50:55 AM
"The modern shibboleth is “I like Trump”." ... America is Biblical, even Book of Judges Biblical.

Trump suggested delaying the election ... y'all know a troll when you read one, right?

"Trying to explain Twitter algorithms to Congress is like trying to explain astrophysics to a poodle." ... Congress made a fool of itself twice, once with the Silicon Valley communists, and once with AG Barr.

"DAs backed by Soros, other liberal activists join fray in clash with police" ... interference by a foreign power is cool, if they back the Dems


Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 31, 2020, 10:59:20 AM
"DUMB RACIST JOE BIDEN DEVOLVES INTO A MINSTREL SHOW" ... "Joe Biden is the White stereotype Black comedians portray"

"an artificially created depression with communist insurrectionists burning cities down" ... "It's time to punish them at the ballot box." ... or the bullet box.

"TWO THIRDS OF VOTERS EXPECT FAR LEFT VIOLENCE IF TRUMP WINS, DEMOCRATS ALREADY REJECT RESULTS" ... Dems have rejected any election they lost since 1968

"The crisis under which the world is presently suffering is the crisis of interventionism and of state and municipal socialism, in short the crisis of anticapitalist policies..." ... the Republicans are crony grifters, they aren't capitalists (but Trump is).

"3 Weeks After Primary, N.Y. Officials Still Can’t Say Who Won Key Races" ... mail in balloting worse than Iowa primary app.

"CEASE FIRE IN PORTLAND HOLDS, PROTESTERS STOP ANTIFA FROM GOING NUTS AND MORE POLICE DEPLOYED" ... good, we don't want to overfill the Federal prisons.

So everyone ready for the November election, with mail in ballots (R ballots preprinted in Moscow, D ballots preprinted in Beijing) ... so the CIA can tell us some time next year, who won?

"A Quarter Of All Household Income In The US Now Comes From The Government" ... we are 25% of the way to Bernie Sanders' utopia
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 01, 2020, 11:11:53 AM
"BIDEN PRETENDS NOT TO KNOW THE 10TH AMENDMENT, TO GRANDSTAND ON COVID19" ... Biden is part of the intersectional Left, who hate all independent power bases (churches etc) for the same reason Stalin and Mao did.

"US SHERIFFS LEAD THE WAY IN CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE AGAINST CORONATARIANISM" ... not as wimpy as city cops.  They understand, it is illegal to enforce a legal law that is contrary to the Constitution.  So instead of calling in sick, they simply will look the other way when churches etc meet in the hinterland.

"MANLY CERVIXES! THE LEFT WING CAMPAIGN TO ERASE WOMEN CONTINUES" ... political transsexualism is profoundly anti-woman.  Also they want to castrate every male at an early age.  Yes, "degenerates" don't want to propagate their ideology .. bwhaha.  The only way to make a trans majority is to castrate all the boys, and androgen all the girls.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 02, 2020, 04:27:58 PM
"Trump Renomination Closed To The Public And Press" .. I can hear the background music, can't you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX3bN5YeiQs

It's predator time, girls!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 02, 2020, 05:13:26 PM
"BIDEN LITERALLY CONSIDERING A PRO-CASTRO CULT SUPPORTER FOR RUNNING MATE" ... Lee Harvey Oswald and Tom Cruise had a Black baby.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQoVdarCEkc

The origin of this multi-decade decadence.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 03, 2020, 12:13:58 PM
"Former Clinton Press Secretary Urges Biden "Whatever You Do, Don't Debate Trump"" ... “Biden shouldn’t feel obligated to throw Trump a lifeline by granting him any debates at all. This is not a normal presidential election and Trump is not a legitimate candidate...” ... yes, Lincoln used the Electoral College to win a 3-way split, so it isn't legitimate.  Jefferson Davis is the true President ;-)  No traitor is a legitimate candidate,  starting with George Washington.

"How The Billionaires Control American Elections" ... since 1952 at least (how did Eisenhower get nominated?  Texas oil tycoons).  I can't wait for the fake conventions, can you?  Will go well with the fixed election.

"EVEN POLITICO HATES BIDENS' RUNNING MATE SHORTLIST OF DIVERSITY HIRES" ... both parties should cancel the debates, the conventions and the election.  Part of the US will declare Biden dictator, the rest will declare Trump dictator.



Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 04, 2020, 12:07:19 PM
"Joe Biden doesn’t have a ‘lot of petrol in the tank and reeks of the Obama legacy’" ... headline from Australia.  They might be upside-down, but they got this right!  The D-convention needs to dump him and put in Hillary or Michelle (Michael).  Of course the R-convention could dump Trump and put in John Bolton.  Battle of the war-criminals (think fake wrestling) ... Barak Obama would be the wife behind Michelle, or Bill Clinton would do the same for Hillary.  John Bolton doesn't need his wife to act as his front man ;-p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kI9HGD-FnU

"This is enforcement of worldwide totalitarianism. This is psychological war on the masses." ... people who can't take a joke, take this seriously.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 04, 2020, 01:26:35 PM
"MSNBC producer resigns from network with scathing letter: They block 'diversity of thought' and 'amplify fringe voices'" ... center Left jumping overboard before it is too late to avoid Guantanamo

"CNN's Brian Stelter ridiculed for claiming 'right-wing media tempest' is behind push for Biden not to debate Trump" ... Nazis under my bed!

"Soros Infuses $116K Into McCloskey Prosecutor's PAC Days After Charges Filed" ... Hungarian war criminals can interfere or CCP, but not Russia.

Trump approves the Florida state mail in ballot.  This can be done in a legitimate way.  How well this is done will vary from state to state.  Also no state system can be changed with less than 90 days to the election.  Hillary says that the USPO will help Putin.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on August 06, 2020, 07:18:17 AM
50% of White Americans Would Vote for Trump If Election Were Held Today (https://www.newsweek.com/50-white-americans-would-vote-trump-if-election-were-held-today-1523164)

Overall, the poll found that 43 percent of voters would choose Biden in a present-day matchup whereas 40 would choose Trump. In a mid-July poll by Hill-HarrisX, Biden had a 7-point national lead over Trump.

Although the poll showed Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden beating Donald Trump in an immediate matchup among almost every other demographic, Trump led Biden amongst male voters 45 to 43 percent, Midwest voters 42 to 39 percent, Independent voters 35 to 33 percent, voters earning above $75,000 a year by 48 to 39 percent and voters aged 35 to 49 by a margin of 44 to 37 percent.


I understand why people vote against Democrats but I still don't understand why they believe Trump is the best person to lead the country or the Republican party. Imagine Trump was CEO of the company where you work and he's tweeting about celebrities and only looking at fiscal numbers that make him happy. Trump didn't "grow into the role" of president like many Republicans hoped. I know many people are worried about "the radical Left" but imagine what a really smart conservative could do in office. Trump is in some ways a blessing to Democrats because he's so incompetent. I can only assume Republicans are sticking with Trump due to the sunk cost fallacy.

And to those who say "but what about Biden?" I'm not talking about who the Democrats choose but who the Republicans choose to lead their party.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on August 06, 2020, 08:10:59 AM
50% of White Americans Would Vote for Trump If Election Were Held Today (https://www.newsweek.com/50-white-americans-would-vote-trump-if-election-were-held-today-1523164)

Overall, the poll found that 43 percent of voters would choose Biden in a present-day matchup whereas 40 would choose Trump. In a mid-July poll by Hill-HarrisX, Biden had a 7-point national lead over Trump.

Although the poll showed Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden beating Donald Trump in an immediate matchup among almost every other demographic, Trump led Biden amongst male voters 45 to 43 percent, Midwest voters 42 to 39 percent, Independent voters 35 to 33 percent, voters earning above $75,000 a year by 48 to 39 percent and voters aged 35 to 49 by a margin of 44 to 37 percent.


I understand why people vote against Democrats but I still don't understand why they believe Trump is the best person to lead the country or the Republican party. Imagine Trump was CEO of the company where you work and he's tweeting about celebrities and only looking at fiscal numbers that make him happy. Trump didn't "grow into the role" of president like many Republicans hoped. I know many people are worried about "the radical Left" but imagine what a really smart conservative could do in office. Trump is in some ways a blessing to Democrats because he's so incompetent. I can only assume Republicans are sticking with Trump due to the sunk cost fallacy.

And to those who say "but what about Biden?" I'm not talking about who the Democrats choose but who the Republicans choose to lead their party.
How ANYBODY can think the orange monster is helping them in any way (well, the 1%, would love him again), is beyond me.  We really, really are, as a country, too stupid to live.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 06, 2020, 11:58:30 AM
I don't expect any President to help me.  Nor, 250 years ago, did I expect King George III to help me.  I am not upper class.  What help do people expect?  FDR got us out of the Great Depression thru WW II, not the New Deal.  He did that by collaborating with war monger Churchill and commie Stalin.

"Pompeo Offers $10 Million Reward For Information On Foreign Election Interference" ... about time (this is now a meme/excuse for both parties)

"New York Times Quietly Scrubs Paid Chinese Propaganda From Website" ... we already know who is guilty this time

"Biden Backs Out Of Milwaukee Convention Over COVID-19 Concerns, Will Accept Nomination From Delaware" ... why bother with fake conventions?

"BIDEN HASN'T TAKEN A COGNITIVE TEST, GETS DEFENSIVE WHEN QUERIED, INVOKES COCAINE" ... upper class using controlled substances for millennia.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 07, 2020, 12:15:52 AM
There are also VP debates.  VP Pence isn't senile.  Will the Dems pick a senile VP candidate, so she can hide under her desk with Joe?

Odds in the Dark Web is for Biden to drop out at the last minute, replaced with a young charismatic unknown, someone without a history (that can be torn to shreds).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 07, 2020, 01:50:33 AM
I can only assume Republicans are sticking with Trump due to the sunk cost fallacy.
That's pretty much it.  That and the unsavory reality that a lot of the traits Democrats and Independents hate about Trump are the exact same traits these people love - particularly white people who resemble that guy in a golf cart trump tweeted out.  Rationality doesn't enter into it.  That was only a facade anyway, hiding a deplorable interior.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 07, 2020, 09:49:05 AM
"JOE BIDEN INSINUATES BLACK PEOPLE ARE ALL IDENTICAL... NO THIS ISN'T A JOKE" ... his generation isn't liberal in the same way as young Dems

"1000s Of Mail-In Ballots Once Deemed Invalid Now Ordered To Be Counted In NYC" ... revenge of the chads, not the Chads

"In NYC, a judge ruled ballots without postmarks count, even if they arrived 2 days after the election..." ... see above.  Think about every election being contested in court, and it taking until mid  2021 until who "won" the WH?  So the default is, if there is a shit show election that takes Justice Scalia's ghost to adjudicate, the opposition party automatically gets power?  This is why I favor military nullification of the civilian BS.

"Gen. Flynn Warns Of "Vicious Assault By Enemies On All That Is Good" In 'Letter To America'" ... he is just starting to talk, wait until the final attempt by Obama to block him fails in court shortly.  Get the helicopters ready to take Dems to Guantanamo.

"BERNIE PROPOSES 60% TAX ON WEALTH, NOT INCOME, LEFTISTS ARE LYING OR STUPID" ... yes, the rich are crazy to support the Biden/Sanders platform

"BIDEN IS AN UNREPENTANT RACIST AND HE GETS A FREE PASS FROM THE LEFT" ... that and his sexual assault

"Group sends hundreds of thousands of 'potentially misleading' ballot applications" ... look official, but are not.  As easy as taking candy from a voter!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 08, 2020, 09:46:27 AM
"Democrat think tank calls for color revolution if Trump wins election" ... Soros funded no doubt.  This has been in operation since 2016.

Dems plan in certain states, to overturn the Electoral College, by ignoring the state-wide vote and the state legislature, the Dem governors ruling by decree, putting only Biden electors forward.  That is secession like 1860!!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on August 08, 2020, 05:53:43 PM
I think the WH stonewalling of the recent covid relief talks with the Democrats is intended to make the Democratic party look like the bad guys when they take Trump to court over his upcoming exec. orders.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 08, 2020, 10:18:12 PM
I think the WH stonewalling of the recent covid relief talks with the Democrats is intended to make the Democratic party look like the bad guys when they take Trump to court over his upcoming exec. orders.

The Democrats are Satan ;-)  Why would any Republican or Independent agree to anything they want, when they are behind AntiFA and BLM and riots and looting and arson and murder?

Why would Dems go to court when they are planning a violent Marxist revolution in November?  The courts will have to be burned too.

"Trump new orders will:
   •   Eliminate the payroll tax
   •   Extend unemployment benefits by $400 per week, down from $600
   •   Defer student loan repayments through the end of the year
   •   Extend protections against evictions"

Populism.  Revolution isn't populist, it is criminal.

"'Broke And Unemployed' Hunter Biden Slapped With $450K Tax Lien - Which Was 'Resolved' In Six Days" ... check his money in the Estonian banks

"More Than 84,000 Mail In Ballots Disqualified In New York City Primary" ... make all the ballots mail-in and have a judge loyal to King George III invalidate all of them.

"US Intelligence: If Trump Wins Russia Did It, If Biden Wins It Was China And Iran" ... maybe CIA isn't evil, just incompetent.  They didn't predict the fall of the Soviet Union either.

"CIA Stuns In Saying "No Evidence" TikTok Giving Its Data To China" ... CIA and CCP share data, so CIA is as worried as the CCP

"FAR LEFTISTS ANNOUNCE 'WHITE HOUSE SIEGE,' 50 DAYS OF MASS UNREST" ... from the guys at Occupy, who are the intelligencia of BLM.  How about 50 days of summary executions?

"POLICE REFUSED TO FRAME MCCLOSKEY'S, REPUBLICANS NOW DEMAND DOJ GET INVOLVED IN STOPPING CORRUPT DA" ... just murder White people

History rhymes ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFAofKwX2KM
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on August 09, 2020, 08:33:26 AM
"US Intelligence: If Trump Wins Russia Did It, If Biden Wins It Was China And Iran" ... maybe CIA isn't evil, just incompetent.  They didn't predict the fall of the Soviet Union either.

As if the planning decisions of a group of Soviet leaders and state owned entities was ever going to outperform the lightning fast reaction times of a somewhat free market. The Chinese really need to rename their party.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 09, 2020, 09:45:47 AM
One of my old friends has said that reactivating Chinese Merchantilism is a world ending event.  They can outcompete anyone, with the end result of human extermination.  The British were smart to get them all addicted to opium.

"LIBERTARIAN PARTY ABANDONS ACTUAL LIBERTY IN FAVOR OF COURTING DISAFFECTED LEFTIST VOTERS" ... I voted for Gary Johnson in 2016, not because of the Libertarian Party, but because of Gary Johnson not being Trump or Hillary.  Not because of the Libertarian Party's lame plan of being more liberal than George McGovern.

""IT'S A PEACEFUL PROTEST" TRUMP SAYS OF HIS LATEST SPEECH" ... Americans are as primitive as Middle Ages peasants during the Black (BLM) Death.

"Fake driver's licenses flooding into US from China, other countries, US says" ... helping to make more Mexicans vote for Dems

"Furious Democrats Faced With A Daunting Question: Will They Dare To Challenge Trump's Stimulus Orders" ... if Obama can rule by decree, so can Trump

"Nancy Pelosi Admits On CNN: "China Would Prefer Joe Biden"" ... since politicians always lie, this must not be true ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 10, 2020, 09:34:29 AM
"TRUMP PROCLAIMS HE WILL SCRAP PAYROLL TAXES, DEMS CLAIM HE WANTS TO SCRAP SOCIAL SECURITY" ... SS withholding different from Medicare withholding and income tax withholding.  I think he is only suspending income tax withholding.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 11, 2020, 05:04:26 PM
In non-Trump news (it exists, or so I'm told), Biden picks Kamala Harris as his running mate. (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/joe-biden-selects-kamala-harris-his-running-mate-n1235771)

It makes sense that Biden would pick a 2020 primary candidate, and Harris ran a strong campaign, winning states like...

...

umm...

...you know what, nevermind.  The point is she was there, and I guess that's something.

Her positions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Kamala_Harris) are generally pretty decent imo.  Hopefully, she gets more mileage out of that in the general than in the primary.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on August 11, 2020, 06:12:51 PM
In non-Trump news (it exists, or so I'm told), Biden picks Kamala Harris as his running mate. (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/joe-biden-selects-kamala-harris-his-running-mate-n1235771)

It makes sense that Biden would pick a 2020 primary candidate, and Harris ran a strong campaign, winning states like...

...

umm...

...you know what, nevermind.  The point is she was there, and I guess that's something.

Her positions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Kamala_Harris) are generally pretty decent imo.  Hopefully, she gets more mileage out of that in the general than in the primary.
Yeah 'Pocahontas', as Trump calls her (for the dims) did better in the primaries. She would energize the Bernie supporters more perhaps. There is something seemingly 'executive' and sharp about Harris. I think 'seeming presidential' on TV is still a big deal and she has that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 11, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Yeah 'Pocahontas', as Trump calls her (for the dims) did better in the primaries. She would energize the Bernie supporters more perhaps.
That all depends on where she sits that day on universal healthcare.  Bernie supporters really liked Warren at the beginning, but her reputation as a firebrand slowly turned to one of machiavellian opportunism (with little payoff, I might add).  I'd rather have Harris at this point, imo.

Quote
There is something seemingly 'executive' and sharp about Harris. I think 'seeming presidential' on TV is still a big deal and she has that.
Yeah, and that works.  Any functioning adult.  I'm serious about that, so I guess I'm ridin' with Biden.  Besides, any meaningful change isn't going to happen until The Orange Plague is out of office.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on August 11, 2020, 07:31:16 PM
The Orange Plague, LOL

You must be talking about Tangerine Idi Amin, The King of Maskholes, Agolf Twitler, The Potus Scrotus? 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 11, 2020, 08:28:15 PM
"JOE BIDEN PICKS GROSS POLICE STATE SHILL KAMALA HARRIS AS RUNNING MATE, SURPRISING NOBODY" ... but as VP she can't lock up innocent Black men.

Kamala Harris it is.  But Pocahontas didn't even win her own state primary ;-))

But until the faux D convention is over, it isn't clear that Biden will be the candidate.  Wait a few more days for confirmation.  The superdelegates could choose someone else, even Kamala Harris.  The faux R convention could choose their original choice, JEB Bush.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 11, 2020, 08:30:04 PM
Agolf Twitler
(https://www.electronicproducts.com/wp-content/uploads/analog-mixed-signal-ics-communications-david-tennant-laughing-alot-gif.gif)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 11, 2020, 08:31:13 PM
Jokes on you if you are one of The Doctor's companions.  Monsters on every planet, including Earth.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on August 11, 2020, 08:38:12 PM
When two of your neighbors have a flag outside saying:"TRUMP: NO MORE BULLSHIT", and one was recently a democrat.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on August 11, 2020, 08:40:40 PM
I would set the odds at 48 Biden / 52 Trump if the election was tomorrow. Sputnik saves the day, LOL
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 11, 2020, 08:52:20 PM
When two of your neighbors have a flag outside saying:"TRUMP: NO MORE BULLSHIT", and one was recently a democrat.

So your dead neighbor isn't voting Democrat again? ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 11, 2020, 08:53:38 PM
"Bernie supporters, progressives trash Biden-Harris ticket: A 'middle finger' to the base" ... Marxists are like Blacks, Hispanics etc ... the Dems need you to vote for them, but they won't take care of your interests one day after the election.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on August 11, 2020, 09:53:40 PM
For some reason today I was thinking about Mondale / Ferraro.

I just can't seem to put my finger on why...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 11, 2020, 11:06:40 PM
For some reason today I was thinking about Mondale / Ferraro.

I just can't seem to put my finger on why...

Bwahaha ... and maybe Ferraro was just as corrupt as people said ... and Mondale was as simp as other people said.  Too bad we don't have Reagan to kick these "wets" into the well of irrelevance.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on August 11, 2020, 11:39:58 PM
https://www.270towin.com/maps/consensus-2020-electoral-map-forecast
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on August 12, 2020, 03:10:41 AM
Harris is the sensible choice.  In the position Biden is in right now, 'sensible' is the best thing to do.  Being from California doesn't really help in a close state, but it gives him a good chance to energize the Black vote.  Whether it reaches the levels Obama got, hard to predict, but it could be enough to solidify North Carolina and tick Georgia over into the D column.

Also, being the 'safe' pick demonstrates stability, especially in comparison to the Orange Chaos Beast.  'Safe' and 'stable' probably sound really good not just to the independent voters, but to wobbly Republicans who are sick of the nightmare carousel that's been the last four years.  It's going to be nearly impossible to hang the 'looney left' label on the Biden/Harris ticket.

I would have rather seen him tap, say, either of the two Black congresswomen from Ohio -- Marcia Fudge or Joyce Beatty -- in order to give the Buckeye State a shove in the blue direction, but neither of them have the national name recognition Harris does.  So, fair enough.

Also, I'm looking forward to her shredding Ayatollah Pence in their debate.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on August 12, 2020, 07:21:06 AM
I read somewhere that Biden's support among the "black vote" is all the way down to 75% (typically 90% for Democrats) while Trump's is up to 15% (typically 5% for Republicans).

I know some Democratic pollsters are sweating over that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on August 12, 2020, 09:15:52 AM
I read somewhere that Biden's support among the "black vote" is all the way down to 75% (typically 90% for Democrats) while Trump's is up to 15% (typically 5% for Republicans).

I know some Democratic pollsters are sweating over that.
I've always wondered how presidents pick running mates.  I'm sure they have their reasons, some of which may be strategic.  But in the end, they pick who they pick, and then it's up to us and the guys who write op-eds to invent the logic for why this was a good or bad choice.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 12, 2020, 12:49:32 PM
I read somewhere that Biden's support among the "black vote" is all the way down to 75% (typically 90% for Democrats) while Trump's is up to 15% (typically 5% for Republicans).

I know some Democratic pollsters are sweating over that.

Dems own Black voters like they used to own Black people ... for now.  Everyone is neglecting how many voters will sit this one out (I am, permanently).  I can't say I am pleased with Trump, would only give him a "C" ... but he was an political unknown in 2016.  Biden is a crypto-racist, and Harris is a non-American Black, ancestry from Jamaica, as Obama's was from Kenya.  The Dems have a hard time running a genuine African-American with an arrest record ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 12, 2020, 12:53:09 PM
I've always wondered how presidents pick running mates.  I'm sure they have their reasons, some of which may be strategic.  But in the end, they pick who they pick, and then it's up to us and the guys who write op-eds to invent the logic for why this was a good or bad choice.

I think Palin was forced on a senile McCain.  Otherwise there are traditional calculi.  Kennedy picked Johnson to cover his Southern flank ... and that helped Johnson et al to be positioned to benefit from the assassination.  Often times Presidents pick a VP for lack of anything to recommend them (Mr Potatoe-head).  Kamala Harris is well positioned to "manage" Biden or replace him, per the Swamp.

"Far-Left Democrat Rep. Pramila Jayapal Brags About Manipulating Joe Biden" ... a pre-election psyop for the Bernie Bros.  He has moved strongly Left for now, to keep the Bernie Bros on-side (who' s lack of enthusiasm hurt Hillary).  But given Kamala Harris, they will be screwed the minute Biden takes office.  Kamala likes to jail innocent Black men in particular.

"Facebook Cracks Down On 'Fake' Local News Networks Run By Political Operatives" ... how about banning all political advertisements?

""We Will Be Watching You": Dems Put Media On Notice To Avoid 'Racist Tropes' Such As 'Angry Black Women'" ... calling White-women Karens is still PC.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on August 12, 2020, 01:45:18 PM
Who would constitute Biden's dream team? What if Oprah was on the ticket? Michelle Obama?

I used to watch Oprah's 'Super Soul Sunday' sometimes just for the cringe. That D. Chopra guy is a trip. Not sure really sure why Oprah gives weight loss or marriage advice either. Priests are always giving marriage advice too. Like getting stock tips down at the soup kitchen.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 12, 2020, 02:07:54 PM
Who would constitute Biden's dream team? What if Oprah was on the ticket? Michelle Obama?

I used to watch Oprah's 'Super Soul Sunday' sometimes just for the cringe. That D. Chopra guy is a trip. Not sure really sure why Oprah gives weight loss or marriage advice either. Priests are always giving marriage advice too. Like getting stock tips down at the soup kitchen.


You can't even get "steak tips" at the soup kitchen ;-) ... just broth of rat

"GROSS, SLEAZY OPPORTUNIST KAMALA HARRIS ONCE SAID SHE BELIEVED BIDENS' ACCUSERS" ... back in April 2019, before the #BelieveHer accusation was made, that ended #BelieveHer.  Senator Harris is famous for her Willie Brown encounter.  See, the CIA thru Epstein, gets dirt on everyone, then blackmails them.  This is why all Dem candidates are sex deviants.  Most Rep candidates probably.  Trump is a deviant, but is public about it, so he can't be blackmailed by the CIA.

"THE LEFT IS EATING ITSELF ALIVE OVER KAMALA VP PICK AND NOW TRUMP WILL LANDSLIDE" ... too bad "Svetlana Iosifovna Alliluyeva" aka Stalin's daughter is no longer available (and she was a naturalized US citizen anyway, so not eligible for VP).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 12, 2020, 02:30:38 PM
I read somewhere that Biden's support among the "black vote" is all the way down to 75% (typically 90% for Democrats) while Trump's is up to 15% (typically 5% for Republicans).
Gluteus maximus extraction?  Drinking the bleach-flavored koolaid?  Hmm..

According to a poll at the end of June, Trump's at 7% (https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2020/06/30/publics-mood-turns-grim-trump-trails-biden-on-most-personal-traits-major-issues/).  And just last month, his press secretary bragged about 8% (https://www.businessinsider.com/white-house-press-secretary-brags-that-trump-won-8-of-the-black-vote-2020-6).  Though, that could be a false flag, he might've worked with Romney at some point. :P

I've gotta say, I didn't know that 5% is typical for Republicans.  I guess that makes sense.  They say black lives matter and Republicans say that racism doesn't exist and that BLM is racist.  Can't blame them for not wanting to throw in with that ball o' crazy.

But you know, something about that 5% figure sounds familiar...

"And a recent poll came out where I had 25 percent African-American.  And the Republicans usually get about 4 percent or 5 percent.  And one of the hosts said, if he ever gets 25 percent, this election’s over.  You might as well not run it." - Trump, from an 2/21/16 interview with Jake Tapper (https://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2016/02/21/trump-on-the-party-nominees-i-think-its-going-to-be-between-hillary-and-myself-they-say-that-it-will-be-the-largest-voter-turnout-in-the-history-of-united-states-elections/)

Just fyi, it's not normally 5%.  It's more like 10% plus or minus 5 points (https://www.factcheck.org/2016/02/trump-and-the-black-vote/), depending on how Republicans present themselves and how much dog whistling they're willing to do to win.  Black support for Republicans used to be a lot higher before that whole Southern Strategy thing.  I wonder why.

Quote
I know some Democratic pollsters are sweating over that.
They're sweating so hard they're trying to put the kibosh on mail-in voting during a pandemic?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 12, 2020, 02:44:50 PM
Senator Harris is also Indian (Asian) in descent.  She trashed Biden in debate.  Tulsi trashed Kamala in debate, and she is also of Indian (Asian) descent.

Choosing Senator Harris as VP, would have increased (slightly) my likelihood of voting for Biden, if I were voting and still a Democrat.  Tulsi would have even increased that further.  Oprah or Michelle Obama would have decreased it.

Meanwhile, why is poorly implemented mail in voting (NM in the last election .. my daughter informed me. was competent) being pushed so hard?  In a circumstance of 10s of thousands of fake driver's licenses?  The California system in particular is rampant with questionable practices, more people voting than registered there.  Basically mail in votes should only be for registered voters, only if they register months before an election, so their fake credentials can be verified.  The actual voter registration is in person, not on-line or by mall.  Registered voters request a ballot on-line (to verity which ballot they get), get it in the mail, mail it back after filling it out.  The trick is having legitimate registered voters.  Waiting a few extra days to have a mail in vote tabulated isn't that bad, India has to do this all the time, because its India, the world's largest democracy.

Kamala is a member of the "Boule" Black secret society modeled after the "Skull & Bones" the Bush family is part of.  Pure Deep State.  Her most prominent ancestor was the biggest slave owner in Jamaica.  She is slightly more African than Elizabeth Warren is Native American.

I am fine myself with women leaders, people of Indian descent, people of African descent.  Since I vote for individuals, not Identity Politics.

"Liberals do not think it is right to criticise a woman that comes from a family of slave owners ....that was a quick 180." .. bwahah.  The Swamp has spoken.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on August 12, 2020, 03:52:25 PM
I like Warren a lot, but she's from a state that has a Republican governor, who would have appointed a Republican Senate replacement.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 12, 2020, 04:04:12 PM
I like Warren a lot, but she's from a state that has a Republican governor, who would have appointed a Republican Senate replacement.

Kamala Harris is your junior Senator ... what do you think?

"Even Rachel Dolezal has more connection to African Americans than Kamala Harris." ... maybe Harris has slightly more.

"CNN: Joe Biden Could 'Step Aside' For Kamala Harris" ... before, during or after the fake Dem convention ... but before the election.  Name Hillary Clinton as her VP.

"Flashback: Harris joked about killing Trump, Pence, Sessions during 2018 'Ellen' appearance" ... I don't like Trump's jokes either

Biden wanted the governor of Michigan as his VP candidate, but she isn't Black enough (Harris is barely Black as it is).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 13, 2020, 04:43:45 PM
"THE RISE OF THE HEEL LICKERS! KAMALA HARRIS FANS CIRCLE THE WAGON" ... Leftists are irrational, so they can and will circle this square

"Sniff 'n Blow 2020" idea for campaign sticker ;-)

"Cornel West Calls Biden-Harris 'Slow-Moving Disaster'" ... if he says this, and he is a REAL African-American (unlike Obama and Harris) ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 14, 2020, 01:05:50 PM
"Biden was "woke fishing" in choosing his VP candidate" ... fake male Progressive trying to get a girl into bed (and Kamala has experience)

"BIDEN HIRES OPENLY VIOLENT, RACIST, MISOGYNISTIC MARXIST TO LEAD ARIZONA DIGITAL TEAM" .. vetting error or going to plan?  Hire Bernie Bros, wake up with Commies

"PREDICTION: JOE BIDEN AND KAMALA HARRIS WILL ALMOST TOTALLY IGNORE THEIR OWN RECORDS" .. the only safe candidate is one who has never been in politics before ;-))

"MEMETIC OCCULTISM! POWER GOES OUT AT FIRST BIDEN-HARRIS EVENT" ... even the Devil is offended by this unnatural pairing ;-)

"The Senate went on leave. No money for you peasants." ... we aren't in their club.  The House only wants to fix the election for Biden.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 14, 2020, 01:24:06 PM
This deserves its own post ...

"During an interview on Fox Business yesterday, Trump said that if USPS doesn't get the $25 billion earmarked in the Democratic stimulus plan, then it won't have the money to handle mail-in ballots." ... doesn't say that the USPS will never get it, but this is putting pressure on the Dems since time is short.  Could just be another snafu for a country unprepared for pandemics.

"USPS Mail-Sorting Machines Are Mysteriously Being Deactivated Ahead Of Election" ... new US Postmaster (Franklin was the original traitor here) is a Republican fund raiser.  This is very odd timing indeed ;-(

"New Jersey To Become 9th State To Adopt "Universal Mail-In Voting"" ... as I pointed out earlier vs NM ... this can be done with integrity.  The integrity of who is a registered voter is key.  If the intent of the DNC is to have illegally registered or unregistered voters do mail in voting since they won't be vetted in person, then this is an attempt to steal the election, and I support any President in preventing this treason.  If this is not being done with criminal intent, then I have no problem with mail-in voting, and would want the USPS geared up to properly support it.  The integrity of the system is more important than who gets elected.

""Democrats Are Holding This Up!" - Trump Rages After Ordering Mnuchin To Send $3,400 To US Families" ... both parties are blocking.  $3400 would be direct deposit to family of four, not mailed check?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 15, 2020, 12:35:37 AM
"NEWSWEEK ARTICLE ARGUES KAMALA HARRIS IS NOT A CITIZEN, DEMOCRATS OUTRAGED" ... funny coming from an MSM rag.  Her parents were here on temporary VISA and had her here in the US.  Not the same as Obama (born in Hawaii territory) or McCain (born in Panama Canal Zone).  My limited understanding is if you are not flying over the US, but on the ground, not even in a hospital situation (say back of a cab) ... and born here, then you are a US citizen (though you might have more than one citizenship depending on who your parents are (where they are from).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 15, 2020, 05:17:42 PM
Bipartisan corruption of course ...

Secret Empires: How the American Political Class Hides Corruption and Enriches Family and Friends

"Only the little people pay taxes." -- Leona Helmsley

"brazen American corruption and nepotism" ... all ruling families, including Clintons, Bidens, Trumps, Obamas, Cheneys, Gores, Bushes.  Hunter Biden claimed "poverty" paying off his large back-tax bill.  His poverty included a $12,000 per month apartment and a $130,000 car ;-)  He has to work hard to keep up with Chelsea Clinton.

"Conservative Journalist Arrested & Jailed Ahead Of 'ShadowGate' Documentary Release" ... Wikileaks probably is innocent too, the government is criminal

"YouTube To End Election "Interference"... By Interfering With The Free Press" ... Youtube = Google = Alphabet = CIA

"Watch As Biden's Sheepdogs Eject Docile Journalists Before Anyone Can Ask Questions" .. Pravda proud

"Crony Capitalist Execs Cheer Selection Of Kamala Harris As Dem VP" ... Biden & Harris are closet Republicans, just as Trump & Pence are closet Democrats

"They are telling voters to dump Trump and restore them to power or they will tear down the United States and burn down your homes..." .. people respond well to honest political messaging ... "37% plurality of independents do not think either would be a good candidate" ... if I were voting, I would be in this last group, 1/10 of voters who think "good cop/bad cop" is a shit show.


Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 15, 2020, 06:59:29 PM
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/biden-floats-baseless-election-conspiracy/

Dat editor's note.

(https://c-sf.smule.com/rs-s78/arr/d5/16/b53b57dd-ceaf-40d4-9730-35fa343b904d.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 15, 2020, 07:22:31 PM
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/biden-floats-baseless-election-conspiracy/

Dat editor's note.

(https://c-sf.smule.com/rs-s78/arr/d5/16/b53b57dd-ceaf-40d4-9730-35fa343b904d.jpg)

There is an election conspiracy, every two years, and both parties are involved ;-))

The USPS has been a shithole since 1970 (National Guard used to process mail during postal strike).  It has always lost money every year, because ordinary mail pays for junk mail, and bought politicians won't fix this.  This is why FedEx and UPS exist.  But this 50 year old problem isn't because of Trump.

"don't underestimate how badly Biden can screw things up" - Barak Obama aka says Biden is unfit for office ... earlier Obama told Biden "you don't have to do this".
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 16, 2020, 01:55:11 AM
I just watched Hannity smear Biden as a puppet of the "far left" and particularly Bernie Sanders and I've gotta tell you guys, this right-wing fearmongering makes Biden look sooo much cooler than he is in reality.

And one of the things they say is that socialism/communism (exact quote: "whatever you wanna call it") is an utter failure in every country that's tried it, leading to nothing but misery.

Convenient terminology failure aside, let's take it as a given that marxism doesn't work - that command economies inevitably crash and burn.  Believe it or not, I'm pretty partial to that position.  No one wants to emulate Stalinist Russia (except Putin) or the Khmer Rouge or China's brand of authoritarianism (except Trump).

What lefties like me are doing is looking at Germany and the Netherlands and especially Nordic countries like Denmark and we're not seeing failure and misery - we see a lot of policies that work, and work much better than what we have here.  And we'd like to learn from them and see if we can't at least partially implement stuff that we know works over here.  So no, we're not following in the footsteps of failure, we're genuinely impressed with their success and want our people to enjoy that kind of success as well.  That's our "radical" and "unAmerican" stance.  Isn't wanting America to be better patriotic, not unpatriotic?

And needless to say, a lot of mainstream Dems aren't on board with even that.  I mean, the last president wasn't even on board with gay marriage at first and had to be talked into it (the policy, I mean, not the...nevermind).  What little reform we actually get is basically just a band-aid on a grievous 2-foot long gash, imho.

The point is that in the US two-party system, it's center-left (with an emphasis on center) against far right.  That's the way it's been for decades and continues to be and any attempt at changing that paradigm just gets crushed to pieces right in front of our eyes.  Us moderately-left are pretty much a people without a homeland.

So these right-wing scaremongers saying that Biden is some radical lefty out to radically transform the US are painting a comically unrealistic picture.  They might as well say that covid is a Dem hoax and that global warming is a chinese hoax.  Just as many people will believe that as the other two.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 16, 2020, 01:23:17 PM
Ideology and partisanship are just tools.  Shadowgate on the Shadownet operation ... is releasing whistleblower info which the current grand jury investigation under Barr must have been working with.  It damages the ability of the DoJ to try people, but also prevents the DoJ from running a fake investigation into a bi-partisan corruption, to troll conservatives wanting scalps.  The Deep State isn't partisan, it is for itself, not for America or any party.

n 2016 they were running operations against both Hillary and Trump, so that no matter what happens, the WH is under Deep State control.  Of course the current election is totally fake too.  The trick of magicians is to distract your attention from one hand, while the other hand is doing a trick.  I won't mention names here, but the code name for the real leader is "Voldemort" (and he probably works for someone else), bwahaha.  Under Intel dictatorship since 1963.

Nothing wrong with idolizing Germanic countries.  I am 1/2 Germanic myself.  But China is the prototype of the 21st century totalitarian state, not Germany.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on August 16, 2020, 03:41:11 PM
I love how conservatives complain about "marxist this" and "communist that" "liberal fascist this"

And the republican majority government is fucking taking the mail boxes and destroying the ability for the mail to work efficiently for mail in voting, which is  many people's only hope of voting this election.

Welcome to North Korea.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 16, 2020, 03:48:07 PM
Trump Campaign Ad ... I support this message - Kim Jong Un

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMLtkp4AFkc

Give me dictatorship or give me all your money (woke Patrick Henry)

"Restaurant in China apologizes after asking customers to weigh themselves before ordering" ... Brave New Diet


Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on August 17, 2020, 03:34:32 AM
And needless to say, a lot of mainstream Dems aren't on board with even that.  I mean, the last president wasn't even on board with gay marriage at first and had to be talked into it (the policy, I mean, not the...nevermind).
I'll just add here that it was Biden who forced Obama's hand on marriage equality.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 17, 2020, 11:27:26 AM
It was MLK that forced the Kennedy Administration's hand on civil rights.

Biden forced Obama?  With an arm wrestle?

Under Trump since 2017, all gays have been rounded up and executed (in some parallel universe).

"KAMALA HARRIS BLUNDERS BADLY IN CHAT WITH STEPHEN COLBERT, BASICALLY ADMITS SHE'S A LIAR" .. anyone running for office is a liar, so no beans

"USPS flashback: Obama administration removed thousands of mailboxes" ... no wonder he has lukewarm support for Biden ;-)

"Biden Sexual Assault Accuser Livid Over Bill Clinton Speech At DNC" ... LOL, both parties think with their dicks

"The USPS Just Filed A Patent For A Blockchain-Based Secure-Voting System" ... not ready this year, so be patient

"China's anti-Trump election meddling raises new alarm, as DNI calls country biggest threat" ... duh.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 18, 2020, 11:10:21 AM
"Cake Lives Matter: Protesters Descend On New York Bakery For Making MAGA-Hat-Shaped Cake" ... so French of them, brioche anyone?

""MEDIA FEIGNS OUTRAGE THAT TRUMP RETWEETED "LET DEMOCRATS CITIES ROT" AS DEMOCRAT CITIES ROT" ... MSM feigns working for a living

Didn't watch the first night of the virtual Dem convention.  I have found them fatally boring since 1972 (last time I watched any convention).  Dems were into Identity Politics way back then, and Eric Sevareid tore them a new orifice for it.  He said "which delegates represent the Lithuanian-American fishermen?".  I still remember this after almost 50 years.  Maroons!

"Trump: Susan B. Anthony to get posthumous pardon" ... anything for NYC drama queen

"Michelle Obama's DNC speech was recorded before Biden picked Harris as running mate, source says" .. Harris not mentioned.  Dem "cringe-vention".
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on August 19, 2020, 05:05:14 PM
The simple fact that Lord Dampnut won't commit to accepting the results of the election unless he wins[/i] should have every Constitution-respecting American ready to throw his orange ass out in November.  This is about as un-American as it's possible to be, without actually committing treason. (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/white-house-declines-to-say-whether-trump-will-accept-election-results/ar-BB189THA?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 19, 2020, 05:35:09 PM
I'll just add here that it was Biden who forced Obama's hand on marriage equality.
I had no idea.  How come his progressive bona fides (and policy positions in general) aren't front and center?  He has a good track record on combating global warming and apparently helped make the clutch play in making gay marriage legal in this country.  Yet, when it comes to how he's portrayed in the media and by the public at large, it's seldom anything more substantial than "he's more presidential" and "not trump".

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfjTE6vXgAAU1Db.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 19, 2020, 05:47:32 PM
And I've gotta say, the global warming issue is way more important than a lot of people think it is.  It should be a make-or-break issue because it's a life-or-death issue.  Anyone who says this isn't a big deal is a crazy person and should be shown the door asap, not put in charge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sqdyEpklFU
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on August 19, 2020, 05:49:46 PM
I had no idea.  How come his progressive bona fides (and policy positions in general) aren't front and center?  He has a good track record on combating global warming and apparently helped make the clutch play in making gay marriage legal in this country.  Yet, when it comes to how he's portrayed in the media and by the public at large, it's seldom anything more substantial than "he's more presidential" and "not trump".

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfjTE6vXgAAU1Db.jpg)
Believe it or not, the Dem convention, so far, has changed my mind about Biden.  I was in the 'He's not trump' camp prior to now.  I now think he would make a good leader, and his character and personality are just what we need--and the average person can relate.  Plus I think he knows how to relegate tasks and power (a very important often overlooked aspect of leadership).   
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on August 19, 2020, 05:55:46 PM
The simple fact that Lord Dampnut won't commit to accepting the results of the election unless he wins[/i] should have every Constitution-respecting American ready to throw his orange ass out in November.  This is about as un-American as it's possible to be, without actually committing treason.
 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/white-house-declines-to-say-whether-trump-will-accept-election-results/ar-BB189THA?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout)
He is a traitor--his handling of the bounty on US soldier's heads is all the proof we need.  He is clearly un-American by a multitude of his actions and inactions.  If the entire body of of the Repubs in the senate were not cowards, traitors and un-American themselves, the orange monster would have been gone long ago.  Throw Barr into that traitorous group.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on August 19, 2020, 09:40:30 PM
Sent links to all the younger ones in the family so they get their absentee ballots...they complain about things yet sometimes forget to vote. :cool:
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 19, 2020, 10:42:13 PM
The simple fact that Lord Dampnut won't commit to accepting the results of the election unless he wins[/i] should have every Constitution-respecting American ready to throw his orange ass out in November.  This is about as un-American as it's possible to be, without actually committing treason.
 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/white-house-declines-to-say-whether-trump-will-accept-election-results/ar-BB189THA?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout)

Democrats haven't accepted negative election results since 1968 ... in particular in 2000 and 2016.  I hated the way the election in 2000 was run myself.  I blame Justice Scalia, and feel his death as unnatural.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 19, 2020, 10:43:00 PM
He is a traitor--his handling of the bounty on US soldier's heads is all the proof we need.  He is clearly un-American by a multitude of his actions and inactions.  If the entire body of of the Repubs in the senate were not cowards, traitors and un-American themselves, the orange monster would have been gone long ago.  Throw Barr into that traitorous group.

Obama is a warmonger (same as George W and Bill).  When are you going to turn them into The Hague?  How is treason charges based?  Agreement with DNC conspiracy with CCP?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 19, 2020, 10:43:05 PM
Sent links to all the younger ones in the family so they get their absentee ballots...they complain about things yet sometimes forget to vote. :cool:
I'm showing up for early voting.  With a face shield and hazmat suit if I have to.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 19, 2020, 10:45:34 PM
I'm showing up for early voting.  With a face shield and hazamat suit if I have to.

The tradition of having people work all day on voting day, and having to crowd at the end of the day, I have always thought is vote caging.  Voting should be available early or over at least two days.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on August 19, 2020, 11:03:00 PM
I'm showing up for early voting.  With a face shield and hazmat suit if I have to.
In CA our ballots will be mailed out on Oct. 5.  As soon as I get mine, I'm filling it out and hand carrying it to the county election office.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 19, 2020, 11:15:32 PM
In CA our ballots will be mailed out on Oct. 5.  As soon as I get mine, I'm filling it out and hand carrying it to the county election office.

An actual good plan.  What if the county election office is manned by shape shifting reptilians and you have forgotten your special sun glasses?

"DEMOCRAT CHAINS HIMSELF TO MAILBOX BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL INSANE" ... they use lots of drugs in Oregon? ... "Postal Justice Warriors" ;-)

We have gone from actors pretending to be Presidents (Reagan and Trump) to Presidents pretending to be actors (Obama, Biden if he wins) ... aka scripted pols.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2020, 10:37:27 AM
""That's Ridiculous": Jill Biden - Not Joe, Appears On Live TV To Defend VP's Cognitive Ability" ... like DeBlasio, President Biden will have two women telling him what he thinks ;-)

"Obama Says Trump "Unfit" For Presidency, Treats Oval Office "Like A Reality TV Show"" ... says 4x warmonger

"Trump Hits Joe And Hunter's China Malarkey In New Campaign Ad" ... don't forget to share the money with the other members of your crime family, Joe.

"The Great Election Fraud: Will Our Freedoms Survive Another Vote?" ... slaves since Nov 1963

Trump plays 4-d chess, Biden plays 1-d chess ;-)

"All dead eyes and false smiles, the sign of a psychopath" ... Dem convention having so much fun

"DEMOCRAT'S DNC 2 WAS EVEN WORSE, A CLOWN SHOW SO BAD THEY HAD WARREN ON THE NATIVE AMERICAN CAUCUS" ... lol

"Democratic convention akin to 'politics by demented Twitter thread'" ... Twitter for twits
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on August 20, 2020, 11:52:32 PM
I had no idea.  How come his progressive bona fides (and policy positions in general) aren't front and center?  He has a good track record on combating global warming and apparently helped make the clutch play in making gay marriage legal in this country.  Yet, when it comes to how he's portrayed in the media and by the public at large, it's seldom anything more substantial than "he's more presidential" and "not trump".
Don't forget authoring the Violence Against Women Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_Against_Women_Act).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 21, 2020, 06:03:36 AM
So have no women seen violence since the government passed a law?

"AOC DECLARES NBC A "LEGACY BRAND"" ... MSM won't like that messaging, they need the advertising money to stay alive.

Dems put the con in convention ;-))

"Trump Gave A Rally In Joe Biden's Home Town - This Was 2016 Populist, Bannon-era Trump" .. Scranton NJ, eew

"Biden Vows To Unite America, Defeat "Darkness" After Accepting Democratic Nomination" ... the old racist Biden, will he lock up the BLM Marxists?

""Wake Up Motherf**ker, Wake Up!" BLM Idles Through Portland Neighborhood With Bullhorn" ... this will sell well with moderates and independents

"Jimmy Dore Blasts Biden's Lineup Of Neocon & War Hawk Endorsements At DNC Convention" ... discredited people like: Powell, Obama and Kerry, war hawks!

"Six Democratic States File Lawsuit Against USPS For "Impeding Free & Fair Elections"" .. thus cancelling the early tally of the election, since the resolution of these lawsuits might take a year ... meaning Nancy Pelosi becomes acting President ;-))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 21, 2020, 07:12:47 PM
"Hillary Clinton Gave Ghislaine Maxwell's Nephew "Very Powerful" Position At State Department: Report" ... all in the crime family

"Biden Supporters Steal 7-Year-Old Boy's MAGA Hat, Attack His Mother" ... Dem bullies

"NYC IS DYING DUE TO CORRUPT DEMOCRATS, DEBLASIO SIPHONS $2M TO HIS WIFE WHILE PLANNING 22K LAYOFFS" .. burn it all down

"TRUMP SAYS DEMOCRATS STEALING THE ELECTION WITH VOTE BY MAIL, VOWS TO DEPLOY POLICE TO STOP FRAUD" ... send in the sheriffs

"Criminal justice activist Donna Hylton, featured in DNC video, was convicted for role in grisly 1985 murder" .. perfect DNC rep

"Third term for Obama? Washington Post reporter claims lawmakers 'talking about' repeal of 22nd Amendment" ... Papa Doc Obama

"Ben Shapiro on DNC: Democrats didn’t mention threat of China, nationwide unrest all 4 nights" ... they are allies of China and BLM

Biden “Ally of the light” in his own words aka Lucifer

"Biden: "I Would Shut Country Down Again If Recommended By Scientists"" ... 2006 pandemic plan was bipartisan.

"Former Green Beret Who Allegedly Spied For Russia Arrested" .. there are actual traitors, but their political party isn't advertised.



Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 22, 2020, 12:52:11 PM
"'As Easy As Going To Starbucks' - Dr. Birx Says In-Person Voting Safe In November" ... agrees with Dr Fauci.  Putin got to her too!

"FEC ASKED IF LAURA LOOMER BAN VIOLATES ELECTION LAW, LOOMER MUST BE REINSTATED TO ALL PLATFORMS" ... some cancelled people will have to be uncancelled ;-)

"GIDDY FAKE NEWS "JOURNALISTS" RUN FROM BIDEN TO SEE FIREWORKS INSTEAD OF CHALLENGING HIM ON ANYTHI.." ... village idiots

"CELEBRITY ENDORSEMENTS MEAN LITERALLY NOTHING: HERE'S WHY" ... degenerates endorse compulsive liars?

"BLM LEFTIST CHARGED WITH TERROR, THE HAMMER IS DROPPING AND THESE CRAZIES CAN'T HIDE" ... had molotov cocktail but no mask

"Biden says Trump seeks to 'defund the police' -- through proposed cuts" ... typical Left projection.  Biden also accuses Trump of working for a foreign government, while taking bribes from Ukraine

""What Have Democrats Done To Solve ANYTHING?": Rose McGowan Goes Ballistic Over 'Rapist' Biden, 'Vacuous' Liberal Elites" ... they are good at chanting ... "Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh ... Snort A Line Of Coke"

"When these ghouls get back into power, are they going to continue to insist all their critics are really just Russian bots & Kremlin agents?" - Glenn Greenwald (on Twitter).  Glenn isn't conservative, not Republican, just an enemy of the Deep State

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 22, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
"Not Again!? Joe Biden Accused Of Plagiarizing Canadian Politician In DNC Speech" ... his ghost writer is guilty.  How many takes did it take to make that pre-recorded speech?

"Slammed NYC Movers Turning Away Business As Residents Flee City" ... burn it all down

"Arrest Made In Viral Hate Crime Against 7-Year-Old With MAGA Hat" ... 21 year old Hispanic woman picks on a 7 year old Anglo boy.  LARPing revolution, Batman!

Post in history section, Russian Revolution Simplified, so all your LARPing Reds can see how this is done, why Stalin is chad ;-)

"KAMALA HARRIS PRANKED WITH FAKE PHONE CALL, ACCEPTS DIRT ON TRUMP FROM FOREIGNERS" .. fake Queen Greta, bwahah ... this happened earlier this year, only came out because she too VP candidacy.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 23, 2020, 04:16:14 AM
"Democratic convention was a Trump Derangement Syndrome ‘group therapy session’" ... too bad all the doctors are R-party

"If fascism ever comes to America it will come in the form of liberalism" - Ronald Reagan, the actual quote by the actual guy, vs the fake one from the fake Churchill ;-)

This is why Black college students are calling for segregation at non-traditionally-Black colleges.

"Charged With FELONIES Sparks Political Crisis As Civil Unrest Erupts Nationwide" … reparations for felons.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 24, 2020, 08:38:19 PM
"State Of Emergency Declared, Armed Leftists Aim Rifles At Cops, Prepare For Nationwide Rioting" in Kenosha Wisconsin.  Burn it all down … leave no Dem city with a living body (Biblical punishment like Nineveh)

"The Theories WERE RIGHT Kim Jong Un Is Using a Body Double And In A Coma??" … Apparently Biden is using the same MO, and Harris prefers to snog the body double ;-)

"Richard Spencer Endorses Joe Biden, Democrats Have The White Nationalist Vote Locked Up" … American neo-Nazis know a fellow Nazi when the see one, and a descendent of a slave owner when they see one

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on August 24, 2020, 10:29:05 PM
When did Trump bring ''the economy back''? I only just heard about that, but I don't remember it.

Now DJTJ says Trump shut down travel from China. He didn't do that, either.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on August 24, 2020, 10:31:27 PM
This convention is job security for fact checkers!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 25, 2020, 02:16:39 AM
When did Trump bring ''the economy back''? I only just heard about that, but I don't remember it.

Now DJTJ says Trump shut down travel from China. He didn't do that, either.

No, Trump did nothing.  Putin is G-d, he does everything.

Actually, the whole economy as GDP or Dow Jones is BS, but you already knew that.  I want all Americans to drown in their own poverty.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 25, 2020, 02:17:14 AM
This convention is job security for fact checkers!

There is only one truth, Karl Marx.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on August 25, 2020, 06:27:02 AM
This convention is job security for fact checkers!
I suppose making a drinking game of it by taking a shot every time he tells a lie would just be organized suicide.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 25, 2020, 09:22:26 AM
I suppose making a drinking game of it by taking a shot every time he tells a lie would just be organized suicide.

New TDS .. he encourages alcoholism …. funny!

Michelle is in love with George W and the Bush family supports the Bidens … you are being trolled by the whole Establishment.

"Portland BLM 'Revolutionaries' Bring Guillotine Into Suburbs Where They Burn American Flags, Fling Poo And Demand Shelter" … Dems = Poo …. this is low humor LARPing.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on August 25, 2020, 11:29:09 AM
I suppose making a drinking game of it by taking a shot every time he tells a lie would just be organized suicide.
I wouldn't make it past the first ten minutes!

:-D
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on August 25, 2020, 12:38:16 PM
I suppose making a drinking game of it by taking a shot every time he tells a lie would just be organized suicide.
That game is rigged so Republicans always win.
 
When Trump lies the Democrats drink, but Republicans think it's the truth.
After the convention is over, all the Democrats are dead from alcohol poisoning, but all the Republicans are still sober as judges.
No Democrats are alive to vote in the election, and Trump wins by a landslide.
America is great again, because no one that matters is around to protest.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 25, 2020, 01:24:12 PM
That game is rigged so Republicans always win.
 
When Trump lies the Democrats drink, but Republicans think it's the truth.
After the convention is over, all the Democrats are dead from alcohol poisoning, but all the Republicans are still sober as judges.
No Democrats are alive to vote in the election, and Trump wins by a landslide.
America is great again, because no one that matters is around to protest.

JFK = Republican
LBJ = Republican
Carter = Republican
Clinton = Republican
Obama = Republican

If all the Dems are closet Republicans (and I can argue that this list is) … then no wonder y'all are unhappy!  Maybe the DNC should fix your broken primary system?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 25, 2020, 05:48:50 PM
"Liberal Journalist Jemele Hill Says The U.S. Is As Bad As Nazi Germany" … send her to the ovens ;-)  Most African-Americans courtesy of Farrakhan are anti-Semites

"Watch: BLM Protesters Shot By Homeowners While Marching Through Rural Town" … apparently they didn't watch "Deliverance" … as Admiral Yamamoto used to say, in America there is a rifle behind every blade of grass (or MJ plant)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 26, 2020, 09:54:39 AM
"ARMED Citizens Are Taking to the Streets to DEFEND Kenosha Against BLM Rioters, This is CIVIL WAR" … if the cops won't or can't restore order, the vigilance committee will
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on August 26, 2020, 11:53:50 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgUCYghWoAApDqY?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 26, 2020, 01:32:07 PM
Second RNC night riddled with dishonesty (https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/25/politics/rnc-night-two-fact-check/index.html)

Quote
First Lady Melania Trump concluded the second night of the Republican National Convention with a speech in which she said, "Total honesty is what we as citizens deserve from our president."
So...someone else?  Rick Astley, maybe?  I dunno if the 22nd amendment would jive with him never saying goodbye, but at least he'd never tell a lie and hurt us.

Quote
Eric Trump suggested that his father had achieved peace in the Middle East and brought never-ending wars to an end.
(https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-30-2015/5-qGwr.gif)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 26, 2020, 07:04:01 PM
Dems = Left handed devils
Repub= Right handed devils

"California Is A Failed State, Residents Are Fleeing Rolling Blackouts And Authoritarian Lockdown" … deserves an ironic video response …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHomETco0MI

Enjoying that 20% US uranium you got from Comrade Obama?

Which California nuclear reactor will go Chernobyl?  Already did at San Onofre?  Fictionally in 2001 thriller … Fallout

"Republican Convention Got SIX TIMES More Livestream Viewers Than Democrats, Media Narrative CRUMBL..
Watch" … on numbers with Tulsa rally … Dems are Neanderthals, they don't even have cable TV.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 27, 2020, 01:03:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/TI1foj2.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on August 27, 2020, 07:22:30 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/TI1foj2.jpg)
I'm convinced that this is the kind of thing that won Biden the nomination.  He says nice things but they don't translate into any meaningful outcome.  So voters say, "Biden is a better guy the Trump because he will do what's right," which is not an expectation of a meaningful outcome.  I want more than that.  What  does a president say he's going to do?  Does he do it?  And is it what I want him to do?  I don't find philosophical bullshit inspiring.  The proof is in the nuts and bolts. 

I want universal healthcare.  Not some half ass crap that keeps the insurance salesman's foot in my door and my elected officials in his pocket.  I want equal justice, not a police force with a knee jerk response to shoot black people.  I don't want to pay taxes that are used by politicians to square accounts with their corporate donors.

And will someone please tell me who fucked up my mail?  My Netflix dvd delivery is now 5 days later than Netflix tells me it will be here, and my medications from Canada are now weeks later than they were.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on August 27, 2020, 11:11:57 AM
I'm convinced that this is the kind of thing that won Biden the nomination.  He says nice things but they don't translate into any meaningful outcome.  So voters say, "Biden is a better guy the Trump because he will do what's right," which is not an expectation of a meaningful outcome.  I want more than that.  What  does a president say he's going to do?  Does he do it?  And is it what I want him to do?  I don't find philosophical bullshit inspiring.  The proof is in the nuts and bolts. 

Politicians are not incentived to solve problems, the are incentivezed to win elections. When a politician gives specifics on complicated policies, he or she is inviting attacks by their adversaries.

I've daydreamed of a new system of democratic government that solves this incentive problem. Citizens would rank choice issues they want addressed, such as affordable healthcare, reducing unemployment, etc. A panel of experts for each issue would then set acheiveable, measurable goals. Different political parties would then list all their cabinet members and post a written proposal how they would meet those goals in a four-year term. Then voters would choose which team to install in office. If the poltical party doesn't meet all the goals by the end of term every member of the team is ineligible for re-election, they are all replaced. There would be no biparitsanship.

And will someone please tell me who fucked up my mail?  My Netflix dvd delivery is now 5 days later than Netflix tells me it will be here, and my medications from Canada are now weeks later than they were.

I'm having the same experience.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on August 27, 2020, 11:24:13 AM
Citizens would rank choice issues they want addressed, such as affordable healthcare, reducing unemployment, etc.
That would be ideal if extended to local government as well. Also need some sort of method to derive the list of issues that will be ranked.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on August 27, 2020, 01:15:40 PM
Citizens would rank choice issues they want addressed, such as affordable healthcare, reducing unemployment, etc.
That would be ideal if extended to local government as well. Also need some sort of method to derive the list of issues that will be ranked.
I haven't thought a lot about this as I have never even considered it before, although intuitively, I think this could be worked out, or some concept that is closely related to the idea.  The problem with "intuitively believing this would work" is that intuition is not a great way to arrive at conclusions.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 04, 2020, 11:49:44 AM
"Portland Murder Suspect Dead After Pulling Gun On Feds During Arrest; Admitted Guilt Hours Earlier In Vice Interview" ... death by cop, same as George Floyd etc

"FEDS ARREST BLM ANTIFA LEFTIST FOR SENDING BOMB THREAT TO PORTLAND POLICE, MEDIA PROTECTS FAR LEFT" ... burn down the media

"WOMAN BEATS 12 YEAR OLD BOY FOR CARRYING TRUMP SIGN SAY POLICE, TERMINAL TDS IS SERIOUS" .. women are trash

"NANCY PELOSI DEMANDS APOLOGY FROM SALON AFTER SHE BROKE COVID RULES AND ADMITTED IT" ... more women are trash

"DEMOCRATS ISSUE VEILED THREAT, VOTE FOR JOE BIDEN OR CITIES BURN, SAY THEY WILL NOT CONCEDE TO TRUMP" ... same as 1860, nuke Dem cities

"DEMS LIE, CLAIM TRUMP TOLD PEOPLE TO VOTE TWICE, TWITTER INTERFERES IN ELECTION AGAIN" same old same old

How the previous incarnation of the DNC IRA was eliminated ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhyDRbdVlS0

When cops were allowed to do their job ...

"Seattle mayor asks state Supreme Court to halt recall effort against her" ... fire her (like condo of Portland mayor?)

"Hunter Biden's deals 'served' China and its military, new documentary claims" .. Biden is CCP candidate

"Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best steps down, claims cuts left her 'destined to fail'" ... even Black females not good enough for Marxists

"Hair salon had to remove job ad for 'happy’ stylist because it is 'discriminatory' against unhappy people" ... why SJWs are as evil as communists

"Discover blocks donations to site raising money for Kyle Rittenhouse defense" ... burn the credit card companies?

"US employers hire 1.4M in August as unemployment rate falls sharply ... continued improvement ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dc3dnev9rY

And even I don't like him

“The result of preaching totalitarian doctrines is to weaken the instinct by means of which free peoples know what is or is not dangerous.” - George Orwell, Animal Farm ... humans are monkey people, animals too

"Bill Clinton Claims Trump Will "Sandbag" Himself Inside White House If He Loses" .. Bill just wants to bang more ladies in the WH and get back that Epstein portrait of him in the blue dress

"ANTIFA KILLER'S SISTER WARNS, HE WILL BE A MARTYR FOR FAR LEFTISTS AS CALLS FOR CIVIL WAR INTENSIF.." ... looking forward to the coming genocide.

"DHS Braces For 'Potential EMP Attack' As Presidential Election Nears" ... China or Russia can provide.  Or how about another CIA false flag?

"Rationalizing 'The Great Reset'" ... Agenda 2030, electronic slavery to the UN, which is run by the Elite.

""A man wearing a Patriot Prayer hat was murdered in Portland by a criminal who said he was "100% Antifa" and instead of banning Antifa pages, Facebook banned Patriot Prayer..."" ... Facebook is evil

"TRUMP'S "VOTE TWICE" COMMENT TRICKED MEDIA INTO ACCEPTING MAIL IN VOTING IS BROKEN" ... Dems will, so Repubs should too ;-p  Trump again demonstrates his ability to troll all the "smart" people.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on September 05, 2020, 10:57:28 PM
I'm hoping the debates go forward.  I've heard that Biden says he will fact check Trump during the debates.  That raises two points that I find interesting.

1. The idea that Trump would use facts.
2. The idea that Biden could fact-check anyone.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on September 05, 2020, 11:39:56 PM
I'm hoping the debates go forward.  I've heard that Biden says he will fact check Trump during the debates.  That raises two points that I find interesting.

1. The idea that Trump would use facts.
2. The idea that Biden could fact-check anyone.
I thought this was hilarious, but aside from the humor, I don't think facts are that important to most voters.  Some for sure, but for most not.  I would arrange the following qualities in order of their importance to most voters.

Party affiliation
Stage presence
Looks
Gender
Skin color
Integrity
Intelligence
Grasp of facts

The exact placements may be up for debate, except for party affiliation being the most important factor in winning the debate, while integrity, grasp of facts, and intelligence would probably be close to the bottom.  There may be factors I left out that could be somewhere in the middle.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 06, 2020, 09:18:39 AM
I'm hoping the debates go forward.  I've heard that Biden says he will fact check Trump during the debates.  That raises two points that I find interesting.

1. The idea that Trump would use facts.
2. The idea that Biden could fact-check anyone.

Both are professional liars, one from the commercial sector, one from the political sector.  Facts are weapons, so are lies.  Both will be used.  Fact checking organizations are infiltrated by political operatives, just as Wikipedia article of H W Bush is.

IMHO, I don't want the debates to go forward ... because Biden is a case of elder abuse, and Harris is a case of ironic Black cultural appropriation.  Pence might be the only adult in the room.  The moderator in any case is a Deep State Journalist who will do what the CIA tells him to.

If I voted again, again I would vote third party, even though the Libertarian candidate this time is more cringeworthy than the one last time (who I voted for).  The libertarians reverted to form, as they were in 1976, when I got to meet their VP candidate in person at a small meeting at college.  Basically make everything legal, including rioting.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on September 07, 2020, 03:54:47 AM
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5b3cf7f3da02bc625d110b92/1584926092222-BIYYJILUU8HFUBAHN3S6/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kIyIhpmgZkr3Gk0l9jPmYeBZw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWQUxwkmyExglNqGp0IvTJZUJFbgE-7XRK3dMEBRBhUpyX9RYMdiH8h0T7vvmAJ4CJU2AFykoc-wDf_VGDHeTeQm-o2OtvSn0wT1qAKFioVBM/IMG_9199.jpg?format=1000w)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on September 09, 2020, 06:13:48 PM
Bob Woodward strikes again: during interviews earlier this year, the Oval Orifice admitted that a) he knew just how bad COVID-19 was and b) he deliberately downplayed it (https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/bob-woodward-rage-book-trump-coronavirus/index.html).

And there are tapes (https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-woodward-book-09-09-2020/h_5bb44945ec0cf0eba9cdd92ab28fde3c).

Good luck spinning his own voice as "fake news"...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 09, 2020, 06:57:06 PM
Bob Woodward strikes again: during interviews earlier this year, the Oval Orifice admitted that a) he knew just how bad COVID-19 was and b) he deliberately downplayed it (https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/bob-woodward-rage-book-trump-coronavirus/index.html).

And there are tapes (https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-woodward-book-09-09-2020/h_5bb44945ec0cf0eba9cdd92ab28fde3c).

Good luck spinning his own voice as "fake news"...

Mr Woodward is a well known CIA agent ;-)  CIA should cancel elections and just appoint their best agent as President.

"Departing Facebook engineer accuses tech giant of 'profiting off hate'" ... better than profiting from detergent

"Taco Bell customer threatens staff, spews racial slurs over price of tacos: 'I'm Charlie Manson's daughter!'" ... a true Democrat

"SECRET COALITION OF LEFTIST GROUPS ARE PREPARING FOR POST ELECTION VIOLENCE, UNLESS JOE BIDEN WINS" ... aka CIA, FBI

"Palestinian hijacker Leila Khaled to speak at San Francisco State University, Jewish groups condemn invitation" ... typical of Muslim allied Dems

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on September 09, 2020, 08:19:02 PM
Although a lot of people are saying that if the election isn't settled we will get an interim president Pelosi, they are actually wrong.  There is a constitution remedy in the 2nd Article and the 12th Amendment.

In the event that the elector college fails to pick, the decision gets sent to the House of Representatives.  However, in spite of the Democratic majority, that won't result in a Democratic victory.

27 state delegations have a Republican majority.  21 states delegations have a Democratic majority.  1 state is evenly tied, and one state is 7D, 6R, and 1L.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on September 14, 2020, 11:58:15 AM
Don't worry fellow scared suburban conservatives ! When black, brown, gay, and atheist hordes come to plunder your solar path lights and plastic kiddie pools, Trumpy Bear is here to protect and console you !! I am so scared about this election I was just about to order mine until I read this Amazon review..

Do not purchase. Very poorly assembled. Hair was thin and spotty. One eyebrow had very little hair while the other was fine. Certificate contained typographical errors and referred to product as "Trampy Bear" in one instance. Airbagged packaged in an envelope, but finally fluffed out ok. Absolutely would not recommend this purchase!

(https://images.newrepublic.com/82344da3bf4e152a4355d736a555ca581e409636.png?w=1024&h=512&crop=faces&fit=crop&fm=jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 14, 2020, 12:25:12 PM
I thought that ad was hilarious!  And as I understand it, being atheist or gay isn't the same as being communist, I have no fear of the atheist or gay hordes.  The communists are another matter, and the rioters and other sociopaths.  Those I will oppose.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on September 14, 2020, 01:33:50 PM
I thought that ad was hilarious!  And as I understand it, being atheist or gay isn't the same as being communist, I have no fear of the atheist or gay hordes.  The communists are another matter, and the rioters and other sociopaths.  Those I will oppose.
The "MyPillow guy has to be involved somehow  :zzz:
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on September 14, 2020, 03:59:17 PM
Although a lot of people are saying that if the election isn't settled we will get an interim president Pelosi, they are actually wrong.  There is a constitution remedy in the 2nd Article and the 12th Amendment.

In the event that the elector college fails to pick, the decision gets sent to the House of Representatives.  However, in spite of the Democratic majority, that won't result in a Democratic victory.

27 state delegations have a Republican majority.  21 states delegations have a Democratic majority.  1 state is evenly tied, and one state is 7D, 6R, and 1L.
It would be the incoming new Congress, not the current one, to do the voting.  However, I don't really expect enough, or even any, delegations to flip.

If the election goes to the next Congress, and if Democrats can flip the Senate (just possible), you could have the bizarre circumstance of the House choosing the Oval Orifice and the Senate choosing Kamala Harris.  The 12th Amendment is silent on what happens if the Senate is evenly divided -- it does not say that the current VP casts a tiebreaker, although I imagine Pence would try to.  And then we get the Supreme Court involved, and I have no idea how they would decide that one.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on September 15, 2020, 11:31:04 AM
Trump's people used Russian MIGs and Russian Troops in a "support out troops ad". Sharp bunch? or just truth in advertising? Morons in any event.
(https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/142/926/9926142.jpeg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 15, 2020, 11:33:11 AM
How is this different from "I started 4 new wars and got a Nobel" Obama?  You either work for the MIC or you are dead.  Just ask JFK or MLK.

"Exhaustive Pentagon Review Finds No Evidence For NYTimes' "Russian Bounties" Story" ... a vast Trump conspiracy, I tells yah

"LEFTISTS CHEER BILLIONAIRE CASH IN ELECTIONS AS BLOOMBERG PLEDGES 100 MILLION FOR BIDEN" ... liberals taken for a ride

"TRUMP WANTS A 4 HOUR DEBATE WITH BIDEN HOSTED BY JOE ROGAN" ... Biden falls asleep after 5 mins, then Trump does what he likes most, spends the next 4 hours talking about himself ;-p

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on September 15, 2020, 12:08:10 PM
How is this different from "I started 4 new wars and got a Nobel" Obama?
Right. The Bush fiascos. Bush senior does a half-assed job and has no after-war plan. And then Jr attacks Iraq and Afghanistan because Saudis and Egyptians blew up NYC and the pentagon on his watch. Again leaves Iraq with no plan just like his old man. Well it's all gawds fault anyways. He made them do it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on September 15, 2020, 12:16:51 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/nCZbSdp/putin-trump-kiss-mural-by-mindaugas-bonanu-2wj14h8zd0-480x301.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 15, 2020, 12:47:36 PM
How is this different from "I started 4 new wars and got a Nobel" Obama?
Right. The Bush fiascos. Bush senior does a half-assed job and has no after-war plan. And then Jr attacks Iraq and Afghanistan because Saudis and Egyptians blew up NYC and the pentagon on his watch. Again leaves Iraq with no plan just like his old man. Well it's all gawds fault anyways. He made them do it.

Since WW II, the MIC isn't interested in peace or winning, it is all about war profiteering.  WW II got the US out of the Great Depression, not the New Deal.  I am one of the beneficiaries, not that I favor combat, I cared for the young people I worked with.  I would have had to do something else for a living (and planned to) if it wasn't for the Cold War and War on Terror.  So "Que Bono".  The Taliban ended the opium trade.  The CIA runs the world drug trade (since Vietnam at least, Golden Triangle).

This is how the spooks money launder ... and regular criminals too.  The US invasion of Afghanistan reestablished the opium trade, so that it could go into Russia to addict the Russian people.  See British Empire 1840s Opium Wars with China.  OSS/CIA worked with the Jewish and Italian Mafia in WW II, with German war criminals after WW II.  JFK was son of Irish-American Mafia, who worked with the Italian-American Mafia.

It isn't clear just how connected the Saudi Royals are to 9/11, and who all were involved.  Just saying.  Before 9/11, George W was putting a stick in China's eye (2001 spy plane incident).  Never let a crisis go to waste seems bipartisan to me.  The larger point is, modern nation states cannot prosper without ever greater government expenditure, and MIC is a convenient way to do this (war is very expensive).  There is no final victory anytime in history.  Just study the endless wars with Persia (still happening now).  Not saying that Osama Bin Ladin or Saddam Hussein are saints.

What does Trump have to do with any of this?  He wants to moderate the warmongering.  Seems good to me.  That prior image seems anti-gay to me.  Why shouldn't Putin and Trump get it on, are you a bigot? ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on September 15, 2020, 01:38:14 PM
Trump's people used Russian MIGs and Russian Troops in a "support out troops ad". Sharp bunch? or just truth in advertising? Morons in any event.
He didn't actually say whose troops to support... and he's so far in Vlad the Impaler Putin's back pocket, he probably thinks Russian troops are his anyway.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 15, 2020, 03:06:01 PM
He didn't actually say whose troops to support... and he's so far in Vlad the Impaler Putin's back pocket, he probably thinks Russian troops are his anyway.

Death to Russia
Life to China
Death to Russia
Life to China ... something wrong with this, they are allies!

"POLICE CHARGE BLM LEFTISTS WHO HARASSED ELDERLY COUPLE, RAID ON ANTIFA ENDS LANCASTER RIOTS" ... arrest all violent street people, put them in a time machine, send them back to Woodstock 1969 where they belong!

General "Mad Dog" Mattis projecting Burt Lancaster ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRiZtqVPJ9U

"Joe Biden And Kamala Harris Both Refer To 'Harris Administration' During Public Speeches" ... if Biden gets in, he will resign, make Kamala President, then Kamala brings in Hillary as VP, then Hillary assassinates Kamala (suicided with two bullets to back of head, like Vince Foster), and Hillary's Manifest Destiny is achieved ... Bwhaha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tDeDiLowB4

Yes, Hippies go away already!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxzq9BLE5Hg

America, go the distance!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on September 15, 2020, 06:27:01 PM
Shades of Hitler like actions:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/whistleblower-ice-hysterectomies-georgia_n_5f60d307c5b68d1b09c812b6

Forced hysterectomies.  And we are the moral beacon for the world............
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on September 15, 2020, 06:29:00 PM
Scientific American Makes First Political Endorsement In 175 Years

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/scientific-american-endorses-joe-biden_n_5f60e701c5b6e27db133a902
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on September 15, 2020, 07:35:38 PM
It would be the incoming new Congress, not the current one, to do the voting.  However, I don't really expect enough, or even any, delegations to flip.

If the election goes to the next Congress, and if Democrats can flip the Senate (just possible), you could have the bizarre circumstance of the House choosing the Oval Orifice and the Senate choosing Kamala Harris.  The 12th Amendment is silent on what happens if the Senate is evenly divided -- it does not say that the current VP casts a tiebreaker, although I imagine Pence would try to.  And then we get the Supreme Court involved, and I have no idea how they would decide that one.

True, but how much do you expect the congress to flip?  I'm not talking about Congress as a whole, which is already Democratic, but individual state delegations.

As it stands now, 27 state delegations are Republican and 21 are Democratic. One is evenly tied, and one is split 3 ways but is 50% Democratic. If the vote were taken right now it would be a Republican victory, but that is not all there is.

If there are contested House races, it falls within the power of the House to vote on which person to seat. The obvious contender are the states where the delegation is already 50%, MI and PA. Then CO and FL both have an odd number of Representatives AND are 50%+1 Republican, meaning that one seat switched would lead to them being 50%+1 Democrat.

That does only bring the count to 25 to 25, evenly tied. It requires four contested races being decided in the House, so it isn't enough to get 26. So that leaves some states with a bigger margin to overcome.

There are 5 states that have only one Representative: AK, MT, ND, SD, WY. Unfortunately they are all very solidly red states, a contested race there would be quite obviously a setup. Then there are states where you need two seats to switch: ID, KS, MS, NE, SC, UT, WV, and WI. Again they are all Red states, having two seats up for grabs that way in any one of them also is a little hard to envision.

Still, that leaves 13 options, so maybe one of them could be worked to give the Democrats a 26-24 advantage in the House.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on September 15, 2020, 08:38:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idPv9zAkL48
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 15, 2020, 09:26:09 PM
Shades of Hitler like actions:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/whistleblower-ice-hysterectomies-georgia_n_5f60d307c5b68d1b09c812b6

Forced hysterectomies.  And we are the moral beacon for the world............

Bad precedents for that in early 20th century ;-(  For profit prisons ring a bell?  Not a good idea ever.  Another bipartisan thing, like cops and Kamala.  Planned Parenthood was developed 120 years ago to kill of the African-Americans.  We are less prejudiced now, we want to kill of a wider scope of people.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 15, 2020, 09:27:12 PM
Scientific American Makes First Political Endorsement In 175 Years

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/scientific-american-endorses-joe-biden_n_5f60e701c5b6e27db133a902

Guess I would have to drop my subscription, if I had one.  Used to be a great non-partisan magazine, but all the academics are commies now.

@Jason Harvestdancer ... politics is local, so they say.  People vote for policies that hurt them, and which help the sponsors of political action.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on September 16, 2020, 09:42:44 PM
True, but how much do you expect the congress to flip?  I'm not talking about Congress as a whole, which is already Democratic, but individual state delegations.
Yes, I know that.  I said I don't expect enough delegations to flip.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on September 17, 2020, 06:44:16 AM
I haven't been out a lot but I've seen people with Trump t-shirts, hats, face masks, lawn signs, bumper stickers and giant flags. I've seen maybe a couple of Biden bumper stickers.

MAGA Visibility Is Making Democrats Nervous (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/09/maga-visibility-is-making-democrats-nervous.html)

... But this year the COVID-19 pandemic has understandably led Biden-Harris strategists to rely on more remote mobilization techniques, at least so far. And the contrast with the extremely visible advocates of MAGA, who are far less inhibited by public health guidance, is making some Democrats nervous, as TIME’s Charlotte Alter discovered in Michigan:

This year, 83-year old former Chrysler employee [Don Sabbe] says he’ll definitely vote for Joe Biden, but he’s getting concerned about Biden’s campaign here in Michigan.

“I can’t even find a sign,” Sabbe says outside a Kroger’s in Sterling Heights, where surrounding cars fly massive Donald Trump flags that say “No More Bullsh-t” and fellow shoppers wear Trump T-shirts for their weekend grocery runs. “I’m looking for one of those storefronts. I’m looking for a campaign office for Biden. And I’m not finding one.”

The reason Sabbe can’t find a dedicated Biden campaign field office is because there aren’t any around here. Not in Macomb County, the swing region where Sabbe lives. It’s not even clear Biden has opened any new dedicated field offices in the state; because of the pandemic, they’ve moved their field organizing effort online. ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on September 17, 2020, 09:08:37 AM
I find it odd and disturbing how inept the Democrats have become in the last couple of decades.  They are perfectly capable of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory once again.  The older I become the more I simply find myself understand less and less of the politics of this country.  Except for one thing--money rules!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 17, 2020, 10:21:22 AM
I find it odd and disturbing how inept the Democrats have become in the last couple of decades.  They are perfectly capable of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory once again.  The older I become the more I simply find myself understand less and less of the politics of this country.  Except for one thing--money rules!

Power rules.  Money is a form of power.  Yes, a primary fact is that the DNC wants to fail, either to not get elected, or to do the wrong things.  I have always seen that in the RNC.  Don't worry about the peasants!  We simply aren't that important to the millionaires other than as a nuisance.  Yes, candidates still get elected, but that is in spite of their crappy campaigns and their crappy party leaderships.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on September 17, 2020, 12:50:51 PM
I haven't been out a lot but I've seen people with Trump t-shirts, hats, face masks, lawn signs, bumper stickers and giant flags. I've seen maybe a couple of Biden bumper stickers.

MAGA Visibility Is Making Democrats Nervous (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/09/maga-visibility-is-making-democrats-nervous.html)

... But this year the COVID-19 pandemic has understandably led Biden-Harris strategists to rely on more remote mobilization techniques, at least so far. And the contrast with the extremely visible advocates of MAGA, who are far less inhibited by public health guidance, is making some Democrats nervous, as TIME’s Charlotte Alter discovered in Michigan:

This year, 83-year old former Chrysler employee [Don Sabbe] says he’ll definitely vote for Joe Biden, but he’s getting concerned about Biden’s campaign here in Michigan.

“I can’t even find a sign,” Sabbe says outside a Kroger’s in Sterling Heights, where surrounding cars fly massive Donald Trump flags that say “No More Bullsh-t” and fellow shoppers wear Trump T-shirts for their weekend grocery runs. “I’m looking for one of those storefronts. I’m looking for a campaign office for Biden. And I’m not finding one.”

The reason Sabbe can’t find a dedicated Biden campaign field office is because there aren’t any around here. Not in Macomb County, the swing region where Sabbe lives. It’s not even clear Biden has opened any new dedicated field offices in the state; because of the pandemic, they’ve moved their field organizing effort online. ...

I have not seen many Trump signs around here, even where I remember seeing them four years ago.  They're definitely fewer and further between.

On one street, I was treated to the spectacularly willfully blind "TRUMP 2020 NO MORE BULLSHIT" sign on one side of the street... and directly across was a yard sign simply saying "FUCK TRUMP".

I think I'll definitely call this the weirdest Presidential campaign I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on September 19, 2020, 08:11:35 PM
Since our longest war is winding down, I guess we'll need another enemy soon. My expectation is that it will be Iran, and soon, likely even before the coming ''election.''
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 19, 2020, 10:05:45 PM
Since our longest war is winding down, I guess we'll need another enemy soon. My expectation is that it will be Iran, and soon, likely even before the coming ''election.''

I would hope not.  Isn't a new US Civil War enough to boost the economy?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on September 19, 2020, 10:42:16 PM
I fully expect to see the USA use a nuke before Trump's second term is finished. Maybe Iran, maybe Venezuela, maybe N. Korea, or maybe someplace not in play yet.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on September 20, 2020, 12:43:46 AM
Well played, Joe, well played (https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1307491919384260609).  :D
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on September 20, 2020, 01:54:59 AM
Biden nears 50% in polls - both nationally and in key battleground states (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/18/joe-biden-polls-electoral-college-417880)

Quote
According to the latest RealClearPolitics average, Biden is sitting at 49.3 percent in national surveys and has a 6.2 percentage point lead over President Donald Trump. That’s significantly higher than Clinton’s 44.9 percent mark this time four years ago, which was good for only a 1 point lead.
6 point lead compared to Clinton's 1 point lead this time 4 years (Is "years" correct?  Cause they feel like decades) ago.

Quote
It’s the same story in many of the battleground states: Biden is at or within 2 points of majority support in enough states to lock down an Electoral College victory, compared with Clinton’s low- to mid-40s scores in mid-September 2016 in the same states, some of which she would end up losing as late-deciding voters went decisively for Trump.
Don't uncork the champagne though.  Get out and vote like it's your last opportunity to vote.  Cause it might be.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on September 20, 2020, 03:37:12 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/nCZbSdp/putin-trump-kiss-mural-by-mindaugas-bonanu-2wj14h8zd0-480x301.jpg)

There are other ones watching that scene in envy.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 20, 2020, 09:52:06 AM
I fully expect to see the USA use a nuke before Trump's second term is finished. Maybe Iran, maybe Venezuela, maybe N. Korea, or maybe someplace not in play yet.

Boys love fires, the bigger the better.  Women are more practical eg cooking only.  No, nuke California and any other Confederate/Dem state.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on September 20, 2020, 01:40:29 PM
Also, Biden polls better than Trump with Independents (https://www.npr.org/2020/09/18/914103948/poll-biden-maintains-lead-over-trump): 57% to Trump's paltry 36%

That's a substantial improvement over Clinton, who only got 42% of Independents.

A worrying thing about these polls is that whites are apparently evenly split between Biden and Trump.  But apparently, it's fairly common for whites to be torn between R and D candidates - in every presidential election including and since 1972, whites have leaned R - the only times it's been even close have been with Jimmy Carter and both of Bill Clinton's presidential races.  The Republicans' Southern Strategy of inflaming and then exploiting racial hatreds for personal gain has largely been successful, though Ol' Reliable seems to be over-milked as of late.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on September 21, 2020, 08:54:56 AM
I haven't been out a lot but I've seen people with Trump t-shirts, hats, face masks, lawn signs, bumper stickers and giant flags. I've seen maybe a couple of Biden bumper stickers.

MAGA Visibility Is Making Democrats Nervous (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/09/maga-visibility-is-making-democrats-nervous.html)

... But this year the COVID-19 pandemic has understandably led Biden-Harris strategists to rely on more remote mobilization techniques, at least so far. And the contrast with the extremely visible advocates of MAGA, who are far less inhibited by public health guidance, is making some Democrats nervous, as TIME’s Charlotte Alter discovered in Michigan:

This year, 83-year old former Chrysler employee [Don Sabbe] says he’ll definitely vote for Joe Biden, but he’s getting concerned about Biden’s campaign here in Michigan.

“I can’t even find a sign,” Sabbe says outside a Kroger’s in Sterling Heights, where surrounding cars fly massive Donald Trump flags that say “No More Bullsh-t” and fellow shoppers wear Trump T-shirts for their weekend grocery runs. “I’m looking for one of those storefronts. I’m looking for a campaign office for Biden. And I’m not finding one.”

The reason Sabbe can’t find a dedicated Biden campaign field office is because there aren’t any around here. Not in Macomb County, the swing region where Sabbe lives. It’s not even clear Biden has opened any new dedicated field offices in the state; because of the pandemic, they’ve moved their field organizing effort online. ...

Oddly, since I moved to a remote part of Virginia, I have lived in a sea of Republican signs.  Many people here have left their Trump signs up since 2016, only updating the year of the election.  In a 50 mile radius from my house, I have never seen one sign supporting a Democrat.. Until this year.  There are two Biden signs within 10 miles of my house that showed up in the last month.  I was stunned.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on September 22, 2020, 09:51:01 PM
Trump won't nuke.  He is much less consistent on the military than a career politician, since he came up by a different route.  His personal focus starts and ends with the economy, and other stuff is to please his base.

He even called out the leadership of the military.  As a vet I can say the grunts don't much like the leadership.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on September 22, 2020, 10:13:04 PM
He is much less consistent on the military than a career politician, since he came up by a different route.
Is that code for "horribly unqualified, erratic, and basically impossible to consult, therefore his policy positions are all over the place"?

Quote
His personal focus starts and ends with the economy
The economy is certainly his favorite talking point (though less so today, for some reason).  Basically, if the stock market is high, he tells his cultists that he did it and they believe him.

Quote
He even called out the leadership of the military
He got into infantile spats with people who have vastly more knowledge and expertise them him.  He may have occasionally come to a reasonable conclusion (exhibit A: Bolton) but the process by which he arrived there is a goddamn trainwreck.

Quote
As a vet I can say the grunts don't much like the leadership.
Evidentially.  Trump lags behind Biden even in the military (https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/08/31/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden/), which is quite a feat considering that Biden is allegedly some super-left commie.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 22, 2020, 11:04:11 PM
Trump won't nuke.  He is much less consistent on the military than a career politician, since he came up by a different route.  His personal focus starts and ends with the economy, and other stuff is to please his base.

He even called out the leadership of the military.  As a vet I can say the grunts don't much like the leadership.

Obama was like Gandhi!  Michelle loves George W!  Psychosis yet?

The leadership murdered thousands of grunts in Korea and Vietnam (but the grunts were draftees).  Volunteer military is professional, they won't take that kind of crap from the leadership again.

The Leftist model is that the US military is just like the Russian military in 1917 ... but then they smoke heavy shit.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on September 23, 2020, 10:12:57 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvRxe6HAV-4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIjenjANqAk

Swing and a miss and another miss and oops we've created a mentally unstable mob full of people unglued from reality.  Help them out and educate them a little bit or point them at our political enemies?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on September 25, 2020, 05:18:47 AM
I don't have any illusions about changing the minds of Trump supporters just as I can't imagine my own opinion of Trump changing. I would ask them the classic election question "Are you better off now than you were four years ago?"

Republicans have been in charge so if you like how things are in 2020 then keep the same politicians in office.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on September 25, 2020, 05:50:35 AM
Most of Trump's supporters do feel better off than 4 years ago.  Pushing the oppressed to the point of rebellion is a warm fuzzy, proving that the oppressed are unworthy.  And if I were a religious fanatic, I would be enthralled with a right wing Supreme Court, no matter how unconventionally they were appointed.  That the 1% should get more of the tax base for themselves would be a non issue.  The biggest improvement for Trump supporters is that they now have a voice, and they love the idea of an outspoken lunatic unleashing so many of their own crazy thoughts without concern over the blow back.  This is the freedom they have sought.  America is finally great again.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on September 25, 2020, 06:38:21 AM
I think there was a sizable block of thoughtless voters who "just wanted to see what would happen".
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on September 25, 2020, 06:44:31 AM
Most of Trump's supporters do feel better off than 4 years ago.

This is where I have to recognize I have a skewed perspective because it seems to me that many people regardless of political affiliation are frustrated, fearful and worried about the future. Polls have shown a large increase in Americans reporting anxiety, depression and increased substance use. I doubt Trump supporters are happy, I suspect they just don't blame Trump for perceived problems.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on September 25, 2020, 07:22:18 AM
I think there was a sizable block of thoughtless voters who "just wanted to see what would happen".
lol  I have to admit, I was interested in seeing what would happen, not enough to actually vote for the guy, but I did start off with an intense curiosity.  "Let's see how the Hell this is going to work out."  Now if I were a Democrat, rather than a Liberal, I would have been doing a lot of hand wringing and had a bigger stake in the whole thing (probably), but as it was, I was curious.  So I can see that some people may have said something like, "Well, we are getting nowhere with a Democratic leadership, I think I'll vote Republican."   Although, I don't know how many people would act on that.  Apparently there were a lot, especially in those states that turned red from blue, there had to be some serious dissatisfaction with the Democratic leadership.  I don't know how many switched parties, or how many just stayed home.  In fact, I believe this attitude has been growing among Liberals for a long time, and as much as Trump displeases those people now, I think that attitude still exists.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on September 25, 2020, 08:04:25 AM
This is where I have to recognize I have a skewed perspective because it seems to me that many people regardless of political affiliation are frustrated, fearful and worried about the future. Polls have shown a large increase in Americans reporting anxiety, depression and increased substance use. I doubt Trump supporters are happy, I suspect they just don't blame Trump for perceived problems.
If Republicans aren't happy right now, I'm at a loss to explain why.  In the last four years, the Republican Party has delivered to its constituents far more than it ever has.  They have changed the direction of the nation dramatically in ways matter to the average Republican.  What's not for them to be happy about?  Yes, Republicans failed at repealing Obamacare and probably a few other promises, but over all they have made tremendous strides during the Trump administration.  They did their job and got it done as far as I can tell.  Much of this is not the work of Trump, but he does act as a relief valve for right wing frustrations.  He speaks to his supporters hearts, toxic and vulgar as he does, but in ways they seem to approve and understand.

But I think you are right that people are more frustrated, anxious, and depressed that ever before.  Probably more so than during the Great Depression.  America is in a slide.  Our global supremacy is in decline. We are more vulnerable, both in national security and economically. And worst of all we hate each other.  But I suppose this is normal when people get frustrated.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on September 25, 2020, 08:10:00 AM
My company offered to fund engineers to pursue an MBA degree. The class that affected me the most was marketing. The science of manipulation. The art of the 'spin'. The 'pull'. The 'push'. The tugging on emotion. The marketer, the politician, the salesman, the lobbyist, the priest, the magician, the extremist. All the same.

Anyone who exists way out on the wings has been manipulated. Facts are simply not out there by definition. However, statistics predict that they will happen to represent the truth on rare occasions. But that does not matter because it is buried their noise.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 25, 2020, 12:50:05 PM
I don't have any illusions about changing the minds of Trump supporters just as I can't imagine my own opinion of Trump changing. I would ask them the classic election question "Are you better off now than you were four years ago?"

Republicans have been in charge so if you like how things are in 2020 then keep the same politicians in office.

My ex and daughter are liberals, have full TDS from the start.  My ex is so crazy, and being half Italian, she would rather move to Italy and claim dual citizenship and support La Cosa Nostra than be an American except under the most liberal possible government.  Psychopathy, mania and paranoia.  They are most dear to me, but they must do what they must do.  This is the only degree by which the election touches me, otherwise I don't give a flip what happens to the US or the World.  Burn it all down, or don't.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 25, 2020, 12:52:27 PM
I think there was a sizable block of thoughtless voters who "just wanted to see what would happen".

I voted for Gary Johnson, so did my daughter.  I have never been a Republican, neither has she.  Every time you vote, unless you know the candidate personally, you are making a shot in the dark, like Breonna Taylor's gangster boyfriend.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 25, 2020, 12:55:11 PM
My company offered to fund engineers to pursue an MBA degree. The class that affected me the most was marketing. The science of manipulation. The art of the 'spin'. The 'pull'. The 'push'. The tugging on emotion. The marketer, the politician, the salesman, the lobbyist, the priest, the magician, the extremist. All the same.

Anyone who exists way out on the wings has been manipulated. Facts are simply not out there by definition. However, statistics predict that they will happen to represent the truth on rare occasions. But that does not matter because it is buried their noise.


Edward Bernays, nephew of Sigmund Freud.  It wasn't just Joseph Goebbels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOUcXK_7d_c
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on September 25, 2020, 01:41:52 PM
If Republicans aren't happy right now, I'm at a loss to explain why.  In the last four years, the Republican Party has delivered to its constituents far more than it ever has.  They have changed the direction of the nation dramatically in ways matter to the average Republican.  What's not for them to be happy about?  Yes, Republicans failed at repealing Obamacare and probably a few other promises, but over all they have made tremendous strides during the Trump administration.  They did their job and got it done as far as I can tell.  Much of this is not the work of Trump, but he does act as a relief valve for right wing frustrations.  He speaks to his supporters hearts, toxic and vulgar as he does, but in ways they seem to approve and understand.

But I think you are right that people are more frustrated, anxious, and depressed that ever before.  Probably more so than during the Great Depression.  America is in a slide.  Our global supremacy is in decline. We are more vulnerable, both in national security and economically. And worst of all we hate each other.  But I suppose this is normal when people get frustrated.

That sounds familiar. But in a different way. Here, the religious government has been upset for some time because they KNOW they can't administrate. The country has changed so dramatically in the last 17 years, they can't believe themselves. They have been aware of it before the economical collapse few years ago. and they know they can't do anything either.

Would it be too much to say that as the republican brain team is not actually stupid, they perfectly know they can't really administrate the country?

The Funny thing is 15 years ago this wouldn't happen. Hell, 10 years ago it wouldn't happen. This angle wouldn't be there. I mean a political wing; a camp, wouldn't think this way, wouldn't care what is going to happen as long as they win, but then it would be obscure anyway. Not that anyone would put their minds into the future that way. LOL

E: That's a good hint about how radicalised the world got in short time. Also pandemic probably played a role too. And considering it is not going anywhere for a few years yet.  Ooof I want to move to another planet.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 25, 2020, 01:45:06 PM
That sounds familiar. But in a different way. Here, the religious government has been upset for some time because they KNOW they can't administrate. The country has changed so dramatically in the last 17 years, they can't believe themselves. They have been aware of it before the economical collapse few years ago. and they know they can't do anything either.

Would it be too much to say that as the republican brain team is not actually stupid, they perfectly know they can't really administrate the country?

The Funny thing is 15 years ago this wouldn't happen. Hell, 10 years ago it wouldn't happen. This angle wouldn't be there. I mean a political wing; a camp, wouldn't think this way, wouldn't care what is going to happen as long as they win, but then it would be obscure anyway. Not that anyone would put their minds into the future that way. LOL

Empires built on pillage eventually run out of other people's money, same as Socialism.  Can clerics run finance?  Specialization of labor says no.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64Sl-km0M2k

Even gays want to vote Trump.  Biden can bring Lenin's corpse from Moscow to his rally of the dead communists ;-)  A good rally theme song for them is the Darth Vader theme ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNv5sPu0C1E

... for all those Dem war mongers and their Deep State storm troopers!  Hillary looks just like the evil Emperor ... Republicans are the pre-quels ... the old Republic.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on September 27, 2020, 07:04:30 PM
Who knew Fox had honest staff?  At a minimum, someone wasn't paying attention whether there was a hot mic in their vicinity (https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1310332612460847104)... best laugh I've had all week.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on September 27, 2020, 08:16:21 PM
I think I heard someone say "wash it." Don't know what was so dirty, though, except Trump's whole life.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 28, 2020, 12:39:22 AM
I think I heard someone say "wash it." Don't know what was so dirty, though, except Trump's whole life.

And if you were a pubic figure, how would you fare? ;-)
----

"Herschel Walker claims China is helping fund BLM which then donates to Democrats" ... telling truth to evil power

"Colorado Encourages Dead People, Non-Citizens To Vote" ... on-line registration.  This is why voter registration should be in person

"Backlash Builds After Biden Compares Trump To Nazi Propagandist Goebbels" ... yes, the most Jewish non-Jewish President ever is a Nazi?  Biden et al works with Ukrainian oligarchs who are like the Nazi-collaborators from WW II.

"'Cash-For-Ballots' Fraud Uncovered In Ilhan Omar's Minnesota District: Veritas" ... this is why you don't do ballot harvesting.  Send all the incestuous Somalis back to Somalia!

"WHERE'S JOE BIDEN?" ... prep for the first debate, getting injections of adenochrome harvested from aborted babies and Epstein teen girl victims ;-)

"A CONFUSED JOE BIDEN CLAIMS HE ENTERED THE SENATE 180 YEARS AGO" ... yes, he actually is that old ;-(

"The ‘Trump Doctrine’ earns President third Nobel Peace Prize nomination" ... Obama doctrine = invade every ME country that The Shrub didn't invade

"Chicago postal workers threaten to stop delivering mail after multiple employees shot on the job" ... another example of Dem management

"Chinese State Media Outlet Throws Support Behind Black Lives Matter" ... Free Tibet and Xijiang
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on September 29, 2020, 11:21:41 PM
Just watched the first debate.  That was really...uhh...something.

For starters, Trump has a YUGE interruption problem.  Talked over Biden.  Talked over the moderator.  Couldn't behave himself at the table like an adult.  About halfway through, he was able to control himself somewhat again.

Second, I disliked how Biden allowed himself to get roped into talking about irrelevant stuff like Hunter or whatever bizarre lie Trump came up with (like the mysterious unnamed European country with fire-preventing raking - perhaps on the forest-moon of Endor).  You absolutely can't allow Trump to control the conversation, diverting it as it suits him.  Biden pulled his punches a lot and treated Trump as if he were a colleague and not a fraud.  He laughed off Trump and said that Trump has no idea what he's doing, which is fine I guess.  Clown and worst president we've ever had are much more accurate and well-earned labels, but those zingers were few and far between.  Trump also challenged Biden to say that he supports "law and order" - virtue words disguising a disgusting policy of violent protest-busting and secret police going on a campaign of brutality and abduction on citizens in direct defiance of the law.  I would have said as much.  Alas, Biden did not.  Bad tactics.

Biden did noticeably stumble on his words sometimes, though not any worse than the way most people do.  He didn't come across as losing his faculties, though a barrage of childish interruption got him to skip from 2 to 3 on a numbered list, which I'm sure you'll find on some whackjob site or new attack ad.  Biden at least came across as a reasonably intelligent and capable person with very moderate, workable solutions.  So that's good.

The first thing Trump attacked Biden on was say that Biden would "take away private insurance" with a public option.  He later apparently confused Biden's plan with Bernie's green new deal.  Such flattery!  I fervently wish it were so!

Biden came across a lot better on the pandemic and climate change.  I'm in full agreement with him there.  Trump said a lot of BS - essentially blaming China rather than taking any personal responsibility, assuming that Biden would have been worse and then claiming it's a certainty, and essentially giving himself laurels on behalf of his suspiciously unnamed adoring fans in the government.  He even blatantly lied and said that the public is generally supportive of his covid response, which is absolutely not true.  I will give him credit for saying exactly one true thing - these lockdowns have been very hard on people psychologically.  Though obviously, we wouldn't have to endure this hardship for this long if this crisis had been dealt with by capable leadership.  Plague rats and plague rat policy laid America low.  And the North remembers.

Trump's talk about ballots was very disturbing.  His default assumption that this election is illegitimate - even going as far to say that he'd make the Supreme Court "look in" on the election.  Ominous.  Darth Sidious vibes.

I am convinced that this guy is at war with American democracy.  Republican, Democrat, Independent - we all have to set our differences aside and work to preserve the Republic.  Biden probably isn't your first choice, definitely wasn't my first choice, but it's either him or this country burns while Nero golfs.  I know which one I prefer.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on September 30, 2020, 12:14:42 AM
Yep--orange guy was/is a bully.  He makes no bones about it.  He sees himself as the newest tyrant for life--he makes it clear that the election is invalid and he will remain Mr. President until he gives it to his precious (gollum) daughter.  The bully opens his mouth and more lies tumble out.  He has only one set of rules--his and what he deems is his at any given moment.  Biden may not be the best, but he was the only sane person on the stage tonight.  He also told his 'army' to 'stand down' but stand by.  White nationalists rejoice. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on September 30, 2020, 12:52:05 AM
These things aren't actually debates as I understand the term.  Presidential debates are more like Jerry Springer reality TV.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on September 30, 2020, 01:16:45 AM
These things aren't actually debates as I understand the term.  Presidential debates are more like Jerry Springer reality TV.
It's no Lincoln-Douglas, that's for sure.  I've seen more rational disputes on friggin' Facebook.  A big part of that is of course Trump but also the format has changed to soundbites and glittering generalities and thought-terminating cliches (it is what it is).  That's what gets rewarded, not knowledge or expertise or rational discourse.  Part of how we got into this mess in the first place.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on September 30, 2020, 02:09:16 AM
I think I recall these may have originally been sponsored by the League of Women Voters.  I may have confused this with the local debates in my small home town, but I remember them as being more constructive.  The format has changed to accommodate the deep emotional division between the parties.  This type of "debate" environment gives Trump a tremendous advantage.  If they had any inclination to control actual uninterrupted times when a candidate is given the floor, they should give the moderator a switch that could turn off either mike.  I think that would be fun to watch.  It would be like one of those vaudeville hooks they could drag a lousy comedian off the stage with.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 30, 2020, 03:08:53 AM
I think I heard someone say "wash it." Don't know what was so dirty, though, except Trump's whole life.

All the women who have accused Biden of assault should have been in the studio audience ;-)  Biden is a senile, criminal, traitor, rapist ;-)  I feel more sorry for the 1/2 of voters who will vote for such a sad candidate, than the other half who will vote for the obnoxious NYC guy (same as 2016 with the even more vile Hillary).

Even Jimmy Carter, once chased away in his boat by a ninja rabbit, is a better candidate than Biden.  Carter wasn't guilty of accessory to war crimes like Biden.  Nobody ever accused him of rape, or corruption from foreign officials/commercial interests.  He wasn't behind the assassination attempt on Reagan, that was a Bush operation.

"Media call for upcoming debates to be 'canceled,' urge Biden to back out after first brawl with Trump" ... two old men in a pillow fight.  One or both should have died on that stage (America wants a cage fight with blood).  One can hope that the Pence/Harris contest will be more like the Hamilton/Burr contest ;-)  Harris is the real candidate, Biden would resign a month after the inauguration.

"Trump vs Chris Wallace, while Biden listened to ear piece. It was Theatre by Biden Wallace and the DNC." ... and Biden says how proud he is of his son (and his 3.5 million dollar bribe from the Moscow madam) ... "If Joe Biden ‘remains lucid’ he’ll be declared the winner of first debate" ... He did, and so did Hillary.  Joe should offer the same drugs he is taking, free to all Americans!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on September 30, 2020, 09:03:01 AM
China, Russia, Iran and the virus won that debate. Even the stupidest, mildly racist redneck who is only capable of digesting guttural Fox news soundbites while pickling their liver with natty lites and paradoxically existing on Socialism Security and Federal Health Insurance Medicaid/care is a better human than the murderous Putin, the dystopian CCP or the theocratical Ayatollahs. However they are all threats to the human race because they care nothing of the 'fake' threat...the greenhouse effect. The suffering before it turns around will require a new adjective to describe. If you have young children, they and their children will grow to hate us.

We gotta pull together, somehow.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on September 30, 2020, 09:37:30 AM
The orange monster thrives on chaos.  Why would he change?  He turned the 'debates' into chaos, which is what he does to everything.  So there was no surprise to last night.  The only thing that can halt that approach is the ability of the moderator to hit a kill mike switch.  And that will not happen--orange would not come to such an event.  I think Biden did about as well as he could in mess he ended up in.  I would advise him not to do the other two.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on September 30, 2020, 09:56:38 AM
I think Biden did about as well as he could in mess he ended up in.  I would advise him not to do the other two.
Presidential debates have become more and more pointless over the years.  But refusing to debate, even in a pointless situation is a risky political strategy.  Such wisdom would be seen as cowardliness by many.  And the electorate, having grown up on reality TV, loves this kind of stuff.  Biden did a mediocre job defending against Trump's bullying, which was mostly about all Trump did, but I think (and I often think wrong) that Trump gained more from the debate than Biden.  My guess is that it wasn't a lot, but I'm pretty sure most of his core base was delighted.  It's what his base referrs to as "Telling it like it is."  It's not how accurate this cowboy is; It's how fast he shoots.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on September 30, 2020, 10:04:35 AM
But then there's this, which does not include an opinion from FOX News.

Quote
Who helped his election chances? Most analysts thought Trump did not. An instant CBS poll showed that slightly more voters thought Biden the winner than Trump. Doug Rivers of the polling firm YouGov wrote: “Trump did badly with his base. 15% of his supporters thought it was a tie, compared to only 4% of Biden supporters. Only 49% of Trump supporters thought it made them think better of Trump.”
Rich Lowry, National Review: “The key takeaway is that Trump set out to make Biden crack, and it didn’t happen.”
Nate Cohn, who analyzes polls for The Times: “What a mess. There was no winner, certainly not the United States. And that makes Biden the winner. He’s the frontrunner. It’s Trump who needed the win, and I think most anyone would agree, as Chris Wallace said, that the president was largely responsible for the debate.”
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on September 30, 2020, 10:07:02 AM
Presidential debates have become more and more pointless over the years.  But refusing to debate, even in a pointless situation is a risky political strategy.  Such wisdom would be seen as cowardliness by many.  And the electorate, having grown up on reality TV, loves this kind of stuff.  Biden did a mediocre job defending against Trump's bullying, which was mostly about all Trump did, but I think (and I often think wrong) that Trump gained more from the debate than Biden.  My guess is that it wasn't a lot, but I'm pretty sure most of his core base was delighted.  It's what his base referrs to as "Telling it like it is."  It's not how accurate this cowboy is; It's how fast he shoots.
I am clueless as to who will gain additional votes, if any. The core voters are irrelevant. Who are the "sway-ables" at this point anyways?   
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 30, 2020, 10:07:28 AM
China, Russia, Iran and the virus won that debate. Even the stupidest, mildly racist redneck who is only capable of digesting guttural Fox news soundbites while pickling their liver with natty lites and paradoxically existing on Socialism Security and Federal Health Insurance Medicaid/care is a better human than the murderous Putin, the dystopian CCP or the theocratical Ayatollahs. However they are all threats to the human race because they care nothing of the 'fake' threat...the greenhouse effect. The suffering before it turns around will require a new adjective to describe. If you have young children, they and their children will grow to hate us.

We gotta pull together, somehow.

Good, I support all people, including Russia and China and Iran.  The US is a cancer on the world (because of the liberals).  We can stop global warming by killing all the Western consumers ... do your part today!  Will liberals (same as Puritans of yore, and Abolitionists) declare nuclear first strike on Russia, because Putin doesn't like gays?  Will they give China a pass, because they need the fentanyl?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 30, 2020, 10:10:21 AM
I am clueless as to who will gain additional votes, if any. The core voters are irrelevant. Who are the "sway-ables" at this point anyways? 

All the dead Democrats need to be swayed ;-)  Nothing has been real, before or after 1960.  The US is a lie, always has been treasonous and criminal.  Already most Republicans don't consider the Democrats to be a legal political party, or even Americans.  Independents (as I was until last year) consider both parties to be illegitimate criminal gangs.  R & D agreed, only when the pie of stolen goods is growing fast enough they can put off fighting for their piece.  The pie hasn't been growing since about 1973 (see difference between average worker and GDP starting then).  So the knives have come out, because there is no honor among thieves (ask Native Americans).

"The sad truth is that it doesn’t matter who wins the White House, because they all work for the same boss: Corporate America..." ... actually multinational corporations who are bending us to a Rollerball world.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on September 30, 2020, 11:21:19 AM
But then there's this, which does not include an opinion from FOX News.
I am torn.  I suppose Biden will do the other two because he said he would.  I hate bullies and that is all the orange monster is.  I would love Biden to address the orange monster as 'Donald' and say something like this time and again--There you go Donald, lying again!  And I hope Biden drills down on the orange monster telling the right wing white nationalists to 'stand down but stand by'.  Orange is sending out signal after signal that there will be bloodshed if he loses the election--a civil war would delight orange.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on September 30, 2020, 12:56:41 PM
Who won?  Putin won. America lost, but at least it was entertaining, which is about the best we can expect from a con artist like Trump.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on September 30, 2020, 01:18:43 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/350jFqQ.jpg)

Quote
Just minutes after his answer at the debate, members of the Proud Boys and similar groups celebrated his response, flooding their social media channels with comments like “Standing by, sir.”

“The comments by the president were a huge win for the Proud Boys, which we should remember is a group who views its mission as literally ‘fighting Antifa’ as part of its ’defense of the West,’” Megan Squire, a computer science professor at Elon University who tracks online extremism, tells TIME. “They’ve now been blessed by the President on the world stage and the data shows they are extremely excited by this.”

Squire adds that her software monitors about a dozen Proud Boys channels on Telegram, and saw them become “very energized” after Trump’s comments at the debate, posting a flood of messages and new memes. “They’re even debating whether to go ‘back to Portland,’ and how to proceed,” she says.
https://time.com/5894497/donald-trump-white-supremacists-debate/

Trump represents them, not you.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on September 30, 2020, 01:33:04 PM
Who won?  Putin won. America lost, but at least it was entertaining.
I watched half of it and turned it off in disgust.  I hoped Biden would do better, but I don't know who could have done better.  The whole thing was disgusting.  But Biden's comment that resonated with me the most was during the Coronavirus segment, when Trump said he didn't want to make a big deal about the virus because he didn't want people to panic.  I had been thinking about this for a long time.  Biden said, "People understand the danger.  They are not panicking.  YOU PANICKED!"  I wish he would have expanded on this.

Most of my peers are pretty diligent about wearing masks and distancing, and outside of Walmart, and Rural King, business have generally been fairly mindful also. But never have I met anyone of the group who was in a panic.  I repeat.  Never!  Not one person!   They just understand the consequences, and do what needs to be done.  This is the rational response.  If you have cancer, you go to the doctor and do what you need to do, knowing that treatment may or may not be successful.  You know the consequences.  You take appropriate steps, and do what you can do, unless you are a fool and are to scared to deal with it.

I think Trump did panic, not because he was certain to get sick, but because he didn't know what the fuck to do about the virus.  The issue for him was the election, and he knew it was dangerous for him, because he had no idea what to do.  Like a deer in the headlights, he froze, denied experts, defunded WHO, and blamed China.

"Didn't want people to panic?"  Yeah right.  Give me a break.  He doesn't care about people panicking or rioting or fighting or people in distress.  He loves that shit, but he hates the idea of not getting to control everything.  The virus won that round.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on September 30, 2020, 01:53:45 PM
The not-panic stance rings hollow considering how zealously he's fearmongered about "socialists" and Muslims and Mexicans and BLM and even Greta Thunberg, of all people.  This is the kind of guy who claims that vaccines cause autism (be scared!  be very scared!) but blocked the life-saving mask delivery because he thinks it'd freak people out.  What a crock.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on September 30, 2020, 04:23:23 PM
The not-panic stance rings hollow considering how zealously he's fearmongered about "socialists" and Muslims and Mexicans and BLM and even Greta Thunberg, of all people.  This is the kind of guy who claims that vaccines cause autism (be scared!  be very scared!) but blocked the life-saving mask delivery because he thinks it'd freak people out.  What a crock.
There are super-computers aimed at our brains exploiting every weakness. We are constantly fed recommendations from special interest operated AI. All based on our personal internet history of record. A positive reinforcement feedback system that just cycles out of control for those who will easily believe. Hard times for many who are drinking from a fire hose of misinformation.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 30, 2020, 04:34:13 PM
Who won?  Putin won. America lost, but at least it was entertaining, which is about the best we can expect from a con artist like Trump.

Putin is a god, all bow to the divine Putin.  (Emperor Shi is jealous of your false idolatry ... Emperor Shi is a god).  I would definitely vote for Putin, rather than any of the traitors running now.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 30, 2020, 04:35:45 PM
I am torn.  I suppose Biden will do the other two because he said he would.  I hate bullies and that is all the orange monster is.  I would love Biden to address the orange monster as 'Donald' and say something like this time and again--There you go Donald, lying again!  And I hope Biden drills down on the orange monster telling the right wing white nationalists to 'stand down but stand by'.  Orange is sending out signal after signal that there will be bloodshed if he loses the election--a civil war would delight orange.

That requires Biden to imitate Reagan "Where's the beef?" .. could the Bernie-bots explode if Biden does that?

I am hoping for a civil war (which started in 2016) anyway.  We need a culling of the deplorables ;-)

"Trump was having to fight the TAG TEAM of the so-called MODERATOR AND "Dunning-Kruger Joe" AT THE SAME TIME!" ... Tucker Carlson would be better than Chris Wallace, but Joe Rogan would be best ;-))

"Calls For Joe Rogan To Moderate Next Debate Intensify After Chris Wallace's Disastrous Performance" .. nah, tie Biden's hand to Trump's hand with a scarf, put a knife in the opposite hands of each contestant, and let the knife fight begin!  That would be Dominican NYC style?  A real "West Side Story".

"Nearly 18,000 Ballots Rejected In Massachusetts Primary Election" ... oops!

"Kyle Rittenhouse To Sue Biden Over 'White Supremacists' Campaign Ad" ... have lawyer and Kyle take every penny of the Biden family
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 30, 2020, 04:38:39 PM
The not-panic stance rings hollow considering how zealously he's fearmongered about "socialists" and Muslims and Mexicans and BLM and even Greta Thunberg, of all people.  This is the kind of guy who claims that vaccines cause autism (be scared!  be very scared!) but blocked the life-saving mask delivery because he thinks it'd freak people out.  What a crock.

Non-panic would be to keep the Chinese travelers out of the US, as of Jan 1, not Jan 31 ... and not tell the deplorable why you are doing it.  You folks are still singing the CCP anthem?

We had plenty of N95 masks before Swine Flu, and the Obama admin depleted that for the Swine Flu but never replenished.  Of course the Trump admin should have noticed that, and replenished.  So I blame both incompetents.  I don't recall Biden suggesting 3 years ago to replenish the N95 masks, do you?  So he is just another incompetent.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 30, 2020, 04:39:25 PM
There are super-computers aimed at our brains exploiting every weakness. We are constantly fed recommendations from special interest operated AI. All based on our personal internet history of record. A positive reinforcement feedback system that just cycles out of control for those who will easily believe. Hard times for many who are drinking from a fire hose of misinformation.

"You can't handle the truth!"

Everything since 1775 is BS.  America, get over your drunk diseased selves.
---

"Philadelphia voting machine controls stolen from city warehouse: reports" ... doesn't matter who votes for who, it matters who counts the votes - Stalin

"Colorado tests new program to fix ballot issues by phone" .. your old phone will vote many times

"House Democrats’ stimulus bill includes stimulus checks for illegal immigrants, protections from deportations" ... Bloomberg should offer them a new car if they each vote 10 times

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 01, 2020, 08:12:16 AM
Post debate polling shows that a majority of voters still see Biden in the lead.  I suspect this is just the inertia of pubic sentiment from previous polls.   I had thought this may have been a turning point for Trump, given that he successfully bullied Biden and Chris Wallace throughout the debate.  I'm also hearing most voters polled did not approve of Trump's tactics or the debate itself, which happily surprised me even more than people believing Biden "won" the debate.  Even the debate commission, or whatever the thing is called, promised changes in format, but stopped short of including mike cut off switches for the moderator.  Personally, I would make dead mikes automatic during the opponents 2 minute times, even if Trump wasn't part of it.  At any rate these shameful media circuses should end.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 01, 2020, 08:13:54 AM
Does anyone sense a deterioration in Trump's mental state during the last two years?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 01, 2020, 08:22:49 AM
Post debate polling shows that a majority of voters still see Biden in the lead.  I suspect this is just the inertia of pubic sentiment from previous polls.   I had thought this may have been a turning point for Trump, given that he successfully bullied Biden and Chris Wallace throughout the debate.  I'm also hearing most voters polled did not approve of Trump's tactics or the debate itself, which happily surprised me even more than people believing Biden "won" the debate.  Even the debate commission, or whatever the thing is called, promised changes in format, but stopped short of including mike cut off switches for the moderator.  Personally, I would make dead mikes automatic during the opponents 2 minute times, even if Trump wasn't part of it.  At any rate these shameful media circuses should end.

Yes, free Assange, shoot all the MSM zombie reporters.  Assange would do an even better moderator job than Joe Rogan

Boisterous truth teller vs drugged senile liar (wired too)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 01, 2020, 08:23:59 AM
Does anyone sense a deterioration in Trump's mental state during the last two years?

He dies his hair.  Every President that doesn't use Grecian Formula .. ends up aging 20 years in 4 years.  The job sucks.  And anyone wanting the job is proof they are morons.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 01, 2020, 09:55:38 AM
I am torn.  I suppose Biden will do the other two because he said he would.  I hate bullies and that is all the orange monster is.  I would love Biden to address the orange monster as 'Donald' and say something like this time and again--There you go Donald, lying again!  And I hope Biden drills down on the orange monster telling the right wing white nationalists to 'stand down but stand by'.  Orange is sending out signal after signal that there will be bloodshed if he loses the election--a civil war would delight orange.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 01, 2020, 10:00:20 AM
There should be bloodshed.  It is the way (Mandalorian and US).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 01, 2020, 10:02:58 AM
I am torn.  I suppose Biden will do the other two because he said he would.  I hate bullies and that is all the orange monster is.  I would love Biden to address the orange monster as 'Donald' and say something like this time and again--There you go Donald, lying again!  And I hope Biden drills down on the orange monster telling the right wing white nationalists to 'stand down but stand by'.  Orange is sending out signal after signal that there will be bloodshed if he loses the election--a civil war would delight orange.
I don't often quote myself, but I have changed my mind.  Biden needs to do the last two 'debates'.  He needs to drill down, and drill down hard, on the orange monster's support for white nationalist organizations.  And that he intends to use violence to control or negate the election process.  Don't stop until orange makes his view very, very clear.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 01, 2020, 10:05:06 AM
I don't often quote myself, but I have changed my mind.  Biden needs to do the last two 'debates'.  He needs to drill down, and drill down hard, on the orange monster's support for white nationalist organizations.  And that he intends to use violence to control or negate the election process.  Don't stop until orange makes his view very, very clear.

Just Nazis under your bed, or is it Trump?  You love BLM don't you?  Gotten a fake Afro yet?

"Random Journalist Enters Unguarded Philly Warehouse Where 'Memory Stick' Voting Machines Stored" ... organized criminal gang = Dems
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 02, 2020, 11:58:47 AM
"TRUMP AND MELANIA TEST POSITIVE FOR COVID19, LEFTISTS GO NUTS PUSHING INSANE THEORIES HE'S FAKING .." ... you can't make valid predictions.  Everyone supposed that Biden would get Covid even before the first debate.  Trump should now decline the remaining debates, unless he can go and cough on Biden ;-).  The real debate is Pence vs Harris.  Watch that one!  It is Pence and Harris who are running for President, not the two old men.  Of course both Pence and Harris are CIA.

"THE BIZARRE ALTERNATE REALITY OF BIDEN VOTERS"  = today "The bizarre alternate reality of McGovern voters" = yesterday
---

"New York Times slammed for suggesting Trump might not remain on ballot after coronavirus diagnosis" ... NYT is a shithole since they employed Karl Marx, burn it down?

"Biden weighs in after Trump heads to the hospital: ‘This cannot be a partisan moment’" ... we must all unite as Marxists in black face.

"Biden launches ads touting his faith after cardinal says he's 'not a Catholic in good standing'" .. over abortion.  But Marxist Pope will give him special absolution for a large contribution to the Vatican bank
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on October 02, 2020, 09:40:36 PM
I was mightily unimpressed by the first debate.  I think both of them performed up to their supporters' expectations but no better.  They both did just well enough so that their supporters can say their candidate won and the other lost.  I don't think anyone gained ground or lost ground, it mostly convinced the already convinced.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 02, 2020, 09:42:07 PM
I was mightily unimpressed by the first debate.  I think both of them performed up to their supporters' expectations but no better.  They both did just well enough so that their supporters can say their candidate won and the other lost.  I don't think anyone gained ground or lost ground, it mostly convinced the already convinced.

I could see the wires (for the two marionettes) that led back to their CIA handlers.  Chris Wallace's hand was up Biden's ass, prostate exam?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 03, 2020, 08:03:22 PM
You're so full of shit you need someone's hand up your butt to scoop it out. I'm not volunteering...



;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 03, 2020, 08:07:50 PM
You're so full of shit you need someone's hand up your butt to scoop it out. I'm not volunteering...



;-)

Yes, you would like to be a prostate doctor then ... ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 07, 2020, 08:14:22 PM
There's going to be a Vice-Presidential debate tonight.

And it's going to have a plexiglass barrier between the candidates because the current VP is head of the coronavirus task force and might have covid through his boss, who recently hosted a largely maskless super-spreader event and now this virus is running rampant through his administration, which apparently wasn't competent enough to take even basic anti-virus precautions like masks and social distancing.  (some, I assume, wash their hands)

4 more years of this okay with everyone?

Don't care for politicians in general.  But at least now, the real candidates are debating, Harris in particular is the real D-Pres-Candidate.

"CA Officials Topple Giant 'TRUMP' Sign Overlooking 405 Freeway, Citing 'Life And Safety Hazard'" ... Cali, state of beach babes, MJ and LARPing

"Instagram Bans QAnon Accounts, But Refuses To Remove ISIS Accounts Celebrating 9/11" .. ISIS supported by Dems

"MAIL IN VOTING BACKFIRES, DEMOCRATS JUMP SHIP IN PANIC AS MAIL VOTES GET REJECTED IN LARGE NUMBERS" .. could have been done legitimately and efficiently with sufficient preparation, copying successful states, and not being a douche bag
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: fencerider on October 07, 2020, 08:41:48 PM
"MAIL IN VOTING BACKFIRES, DEMOCRATS JUMP SHIP IN PANIC AS MAIL VOTES GET REJECTED IN LARGE NUMBERS" .. could have been done legitimately and efficiently with sufficient preparation, copying successful states, and not being a douche bag
CA already had a vote-by-mail system in place. But this year they decided it wasn't good enough and they updated it. Maybe it works and maybe it doesn't
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: fencerider on October 07, 2020, 09:01:10 PM
The three things that stand out the most about the debate between the Orange Jester and the Geezer are:

Trump says "Well Boys stand back and stand by" like he is some kind of KKK Grand Master.

Trump denying global warming talking about CDF; as if he does a better job of running the WH; as if raking the ground would solve the problem. Ohhhkayyy- the Artic Circle is supposed to be frozen. It's supposed to be colder than the inside of your freezer, but there are massive fires in the Artic that make the Bobcat Fire look like somebody taking a smoke break.

Trump scores a big point against Biden. Trump accused Biden of leaving court seats empty. Bingo. The only reason that the temporary President of the Senate Mitch McC could put people in the courts is because the real President of the Senate Joe Biden was AWOL. absolutely nothing McC could do that was not legally the responsibility of Biden. The democrats shouldn't have even allowed Biden to be a candidate. That fn traitor Biden gave away 1/8 of the federal court seats to the Republicans.

Both Trump and Biden should be in prison for diff reasons.
Biden: dereliction of duty, felony violation of the 6th ammendment (and McC as well)
Trump: too many for my currently lazy fingers
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 07, 2020, 09:28:48 PM
Pence has been saying that he "trusts the American people" like he gets paid for every time he says it.  Didn't trust them enough to be honest with them about the nature of this disease or to fight King Orange on his "just the flu bro" policy and "open 'er up and let 'em die" policy.

Pence has said they're rushing to get a vaccine out which certainly sounds good, but it's strange that they weren't gung ho about getting people to wear masks in the interim, even going as so far as blocking mask delivery to vulnerable Americans.  Do they want to protect people or not?  Why don't the words and actions match up?

And now he's deflecting to swine flu.  When you just crapped the bed, it doesn't make you look any better by saying the other guy wet his bed years ago.  He said the stockpiles were empty (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/08/donald-trump/trump-said-obama-admin-left-him-bare-stockpile-wro/), which is patently a lie.

Now that I know for a fact that there's a liar in the room, what chance does he have to persuade me or any other sensible American?

And if Pence was so focused on keeping America well prepared for a pandemic did he object when Trump fired the pandemic team?  Pence's narrative is not adding up.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 07, 2020, 09:44:16 PM
And now Pence is Wormtonguing it up, claiming that Biden is going to raise taxes (not unless you're making >$400,000/year), ban fracking (I wish), supports the Green New Deal (this is true only in my wildest dreams), and abolish fossil fuels (not true (https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/misleading-ad-targets-biden-on-fossil-fuels-fracking/), but that's a good idea!)

And the final nail in the coffin was Pence saying that Trump is some great conservationist after crippling the EPA and rolling back a ton of environmental regulations (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/climate/trump-environment-rollbacks.html) (including making drastic changes to a key environmental legislation (https://www.npr.org/2020/07/15/891190100/trump-overhauls-key-environmental-law-to-speed-up-pipelines-and-other-projects))

So now I know for a fact that Pence is a complete liar.  No one trust a liar.  No one believes a liar.  And so help me, this liar just lost the election with his lies.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 07, 2020, 10:05:57 PM
I will say this though: both candidates here seem like reasonably-intelligent politicians (lying notwithstanding).  They can even have a real debate by (sometimes reluctantly) giving up the floor and letting someone else talk.

In fact, I'd go so far to say that if all I knew about these candidates was these two debates, I'd assume that Pence was the Presidential candidate and Trump the VP pick.  Same with Harris and Biden.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 07, 2020, 10:56:53 PM
CA already had a vote-by-mail system in place. But this year they decided it wasn't good enough and they updated it. Maybe it works and maybe it doesn't

Always fix it if it ain't broke, especially if my cousin is the sole bidder ;-))

Quick summary ...

Pence is the opposite of Trump, and a threat for 2024
Harris is a CCP stooge same as the Biden family, not a threat for 2020 or 2024

2016 ... Repubs had nobody better than Donald, a known Democrat.  Dems had nobody better than Hillary, a known Republican.
2020 ... Donald is incumbent, so no surprise there.  Dems had nobody better than Joe, a doddering old fool and crook

Analysis .. DNC and RNC are a liability.  Fire all of them.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 08, 2020, 02:07:38 AM
And before I forget, Pence said that Biden would ban fossil fuels (*clutches pearls*) shortly before praising Trump as some great conservationist.  Did he forget that fossil fuels are a pollutant?

It just seems bizarre to scowl at environmentalism in your opponent and then praise it in your ally.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on October 08, 2020, 09:50:11 AM
Flies always find the bullshit Christians, LOL. This guy creeps me out. Thanks to Seth Andrews.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjzqIV-WkAE_xrq?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ejzpl6iWoAAjV1P?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 08, 2020, 09:54:28 AM
Quote
“I’m not going to waste my time on a virtual debate, that’s not what debating is all about,” Mr. Trump told the anchor Maria Bartiromo during a Fox Business television interview. “You sit behind a computer and do a debate — it’s ridiculous.”
He only wants to debate if he can be within coughing distance of Biden, and those plexiglass shields don't exactly inspire confidence.  2020 will be remembered for Trump going off the rails and the fly on Pence's head.  I didn't watch the debate last night. The campaign is getting silly.  It's hard to take it seriously.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on October 08, 2020, 10:20:16 AM
He only wants to debate if he can be within coughing distance of Biden, and those plexiglass shields don't exactly inspire confidence.
Translation: Trump is a fucking coward, which almost all bullies are.

Also, he desperately needs to not debate because of the damage he does himself.  He's trying to get out of the debates any way he can.  He's apparently decided looking like a coward and a petulant child is less damaging than trying to explain himself in public.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 08, 2020, 11:46:46 AM
And before I forget, Pence said that Biden would ban fossil fuels (*clutches pearls*) shortly before praising Trump as some great conservationist.  Did he forget that fossil fuels are a pollutant?

It just seems bizarre to scowl at environmentalism in your opponent and then praise it in your ally.

Part of Agenda 21 from the UN (controlled by China).  Western countries to be reduced to nature preserves for Chinese tourism.  Only electric buggies allowed.  Of course this environmental care won't apply to China.  Guided safari hunting of feral Americans at additional charge.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 08, 2020, 11:49:09 AM
Translation: Trump is a fucking coward, which almost all bullies are.

Also, he desperately needs to not debate because of the damage he does himself.  He's trying to get out of the debates any way he can.  He's apparently decided looking like a coward and a petulant child is less damaging than trying to explain himself in public.

It was a gambit, to make Biden look weak compared to the God Emperor.  And he does look weak, for many reasons.  If Trump wasn't a coward he would strangle Biden on stage, as a mercy killing?

“Senator, your party has spent the last three and a half years trying to overturn the results of the last election...” - VP Pence to VP Candidate Harris
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on October 08, 2020, 12:50:04 PM
Well.  Remember the Oval Orifice's "LIBERATE MICHIGAN! (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1251169217531056130)" tweet?

Words have consequences, you racist, sexist fuck (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/six-men-charged-alleged-plot-kidnap-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer-n1242622).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 08, 2020, 12:56:47 PM
"Pence = Race Bannon from Jonny Quest" .. especially the B&W classic version I watched in 1961.  Back then racism was OK.

"Kamala Harris is the black slave owner the Democrats want." ... 50% Indian, 47% White slave owners, 3% Jamaican Black slave.  A ringer, like Obama.

"Pelosi questions Trump's health, says ‘we’re going to be talking about the 25th Amendment’" ... because Trump has Covid.  How about impeach Pelosi?

"Mysterious sound distracts Harris-Biden debate viewers" ... candidates should take Gas-X and potty before the debate ;-)

"Lakers' LeBron James takes aim at Mike Pence using viral fly debate moment" .. not successful if fly was star of the debate

"Undecided voters found Harris 'abrasive, condescending' in vice presidential debate" .. least popular Dem primary candidate chosen as VP candidate, a winner?

"June 2019 - Kamala Harris, "Joe Biden is a racist that supports segregationist.  He (Joe) is not fit to be President."
August 2020 - Kamala Harris, "Joe Biden is a good man that will do great things for minorities and all Americans!"" ... DNC is a joke

"When the mail in votes are counted, 110% of the people will have voted for Biden." .. Dems in general, Biden in particular flunked maths
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 08, 2020, 02:53:12 PM
Latest polls:

59% say Harris performed better than Pence in last night's debate (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/520162-poll-majority-believe-harris-won-vp-debate-against-pence)

Biden has about a 10-point lead over Trump (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/08/bidens-polling-lead-over-trump-grows-since-debate-covid-19-diagnosis.html) (about double what clinton had at this point (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/trump-vs-biden-national-polls-2020-vs-2016/))

538 gives Biden a 85% chance of winning (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/), up from 71% in August (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/511666-fivethirtyeight-model-biden-has-71-percent-chance-of-winning-the-white)

(https://preview.redd.it/i39aov8gjvr51.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=b4ebdf9ffba38c475433fbc4aa29934d32580c38)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 08, 2020, 07:29:19 PM
“If Democrats are willing to cause such destruction in the pursuit of POWER, just imagine what they’ll do if they obtain it” … President Trump

Dems are all on illegal drugs since 1965.

"PORTLAND DA DROPS HUNDREDS OF ANTIFA RIOT CHARGES WHILE NYC TARGETS JEWISH PEOPLE" ... impeach every Dem office holder

"TRUMP SLAMS OBAMA AND BIDEN, DEMANDS THEY BE INDICTED IMMEDIATELY BY BILL BARR" .. a CIA psyop?  A President doesn't have this power.  The drug cocktail the doctors gave him, it is said, gives one delusions.  CIA planned this?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on October 08, 2020, 07:44:13 PM
It's times like these that I'm glad my mind has Baruch on ignore.

Didn't read what he wrote and don't care, because I can guarantee it's stupid, whatever it is.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on October 08, 2020, 08:04:35 PM
The VP debate was a lot better than the Presidential debate.  Of course it had its flaws, which is why everyone agrees with "my candidate won while the other candidate dodged the questions."
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 08, 2020, 08:37:31 PM
I think they both gave their respective bases what they wanted. I was a bit surprised the Pence did so much bullying, but only a bit. I doubt any votes were changed as a result. Now we just have to wait and see if there is another presidential debate.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 09, 2020, 10:49:21 AM
"Yuan Surges Most In 15 Years On Expectations Of Pro-China Pivot By "President Biden"" .. free Fentanyl for everyone, weee.  No foreign interference at all ;-)

"Durham Report Won't Be Ready By Election: AG Barr" .. probably better, because of optics.  Supposedly neither Biden nor Obama were under investigation ;-)

"CA-Based Media Outlet Posts False Story About Pence Testing Positive For COVID-19" .. anyone with Covid is disqualified for political office, Nancy Pelosi becomes first woman President ... wee!

"DEMOCRATS ANNOUNCE PLAN TO REMOVE PRESIDENT BUT NOT TRUMP, PELOSI SETTING STAGE TO REMOVE BIDEN" .. if Trump wins, he gets removed medically.  If Biden wins, he gets removed medically.  This is a way for a non-Black woman who lost all Dem primaries, to become President.  Bwahaha.

"Biden is a trojan candidate." ... Believe Her

"They are rigging election with Soviet efficiency." ... people old enough to remember the Soviet Union
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 09, 2020, 09:10:35 PM
I hear they're going to have another boat parade for Trump, but I have a sinking feeling about that idea...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on October 10, 2020, 08:49:02 AM
I had a scary thought. I need to forget about the news for now.

 One probable scenario for the upcoming election IMHO: many Trump voters will physically go to the polls and it may initially seem more like a Trump victory on election night. Then as the mail-in votes slowly get counted it will shift to Biden over the next few days. If Trump cries foul and calls out (implied or directly) the tiny minority of armed goons, there may be violence. How, where and when, I do not know.

 These fake 'militia' seem inept, mostly gun guys who rub on their AR15s late at night. However there is a slight chance they trigger a reaction from some moderates if these 'militias' manage to get themselves killed.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 10, 2020, 08:51:46 AM
Thinking about what I'm reading lately, and all the information I've gotten from the past is that Republicans get money from big donors and Democrats get money from the riff raff.  Of course the riff raff (god love us) doesn't have much money.  I've heard about several Trump donors, or maybe it's just a few donors several times that fork over 100 million at a time.

But during the last couple of weeks, Biden is spending 40 mil a week to Trumps 20 mil.  If the common knowledge (not necessarily accurate knowledge) holds, then it seems like Trump should be outspending Biden by millions each week, especially when he's running behind, but he's not spending, almost like he's blown his nest egg.  Is he holding back until the last couple of weeks?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 10, 2020, 09:32:13 AM
I hear they're going to have another boat parade for Trump, but I have a sinking feeling about that idea...

Some folks last time forgot to put the plug in the bottom of their boat ;-(
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 10, 2020, 09:33:30 AM
I had a scary thought. I need to forget about the news for now.

 One probable scenario for the upcoming election IMHO: many Trump voters will physically go to the polls and it may initially seem more like a Trump victory on election night. Then as the mail-in votes slowly get counted it will shift to Biden over the next few days. If Trump cries foul and calls out (implied or directly) the tiny minority of armed goons, there may be violence. How, where and when, I do not know.

 These fake 'militia' seem inept, mostly gun guys who rub on their AR15s late at night. However there is a slight chance they trigger a reaction from some moderates if these 'militias' manage to get themselves killed.


You have figured out the Illuminati plan ... better not only avoid politics, but fly to your private Caribbean Fantasy Island like the other millionaires ;-)

"RICH PEOPLE PANIC AND START BUYING UP PRIVATE ISLANDS EN MASSE, WHAT DO THEY KNOW THAT WE DON'T??" .. millionaires establishing their own CHAZ.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 10, 2020, 09:34:49 AM
Thinking about what I'm reading lately, and all the information I've gotten from the past is that Republicans get money from big donors and Democrats get money from the riff raff.  Of course the riff raff (god love us) doesn't have much money.  I've heard about several Trump donors, or maybe it's just a few donors several times that fork over 100 million at a time.

But during the last couple of weeks, Biden is spending 40 mil a week to Trumps 20 mil.  If the common knowledge (not necessarily accurate knowledge) holds, then it seems like Trump should be outspending Biden by millions each week, especially when he's running behind, but he's not spending, almost like he's blown his nest egg.  Is he holding back until the last couple of weeks?

Corporations being blackmailed by BLM.  When we win, if you don't donate now, you will be the first against the wall!  Also multinational corporations support the CCP.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 10, 2020, 09:38:38 AM
I had a scary thought. I need to forget about the news for now.

One probable scenario for the upcoming election IMHO: many Trump voters will physically go to the polls and it may initially seem more like a Trump victory on election night. Then as the mail-in votes slowly get counted it will shift to Biden over the next few days.
I don't think this happens that often.  I can't remember in my lifetime, when the winner of the election wasn't declared that evening.  They always mention that there are still mail in ballots to be counted, but they never seemed to matter.  Now they talk about mail in ballot's like they actually make a difference.  Maybe mail in voting has only been kind of a norm in recent years.  It's been only recently that I'm starting to hear friends say they've been voting by mail for years, but since they never said that before, I'm thinking, "Really?"

If Trump cries foul and calls out (implied or directly) the tiny minority of armed goons, there may be violence. How, where and when, I do not know.


The first time I heard about this was a couple of years ago when some crazy preacher said that if Trump loses the next election, there will be rioting and shootout's in the street.  Now, it's been like a rallying cry, but I think it's just hype.  It's wishful thinking, and no doubt some right wingers would love it, but I don't think it's seriously caught on yet.  Given time, hate speech can turn into actions, but I don't think we are there yet.

These fake 'militia' seem inept, mostly gun guys who rub on their AR15s late at night. However there is a slight chance they trigger a reaction from some moderates if these 'militias' manage to get themselves killed.
They are like little kids playing "Army."  They ARE inept, but bold, and they can do a lot of damage.  Mostly their effect will be to intimidate.  They are terrorists.  Their purpose is to intimidate and wear down opposition, and attract other nut jobs to the cause.  I'm thinking starting a bloody revolution is a long shot.  They don't really have a plan for what comes after a revolution, but few revolutions do.  It just leads to anarchy, followed by a power vacuum, and then some self seeking dictator that surfaces.  Mostly these guys will get run over and squashed when the tanks show up.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 10, 2020, 11:42:22 AM
"Donald Trump undertakes medical evaluation in post-COVID-19 interview" .. he is now Covid drug free.  I want every Dem officeholder to be checked daily in public to see if they are drug free ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 10, 2020, 01:12:56 PM
"Kamala Harris was so disrespectful, so unlikeable. Unlike our guys."

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=631667860849705
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 10, 2020, 01:22:23 PM
"Kamala Harris was so disrespectful, so unlikeable. Unlike our guys."
Republicans are just bigger versions of grade school kids.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 10, 2020, 01:39:37 PM
"Kamala Harris was so disrespectful, so unlikeable. Unlike our guys."

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=631667860849705

Non-Black super fly?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 10, 2020, 01:40:17 PM
Republicans are just bigger versions of grade school kids.

Dems are just bigger versions of infants (Biden is Ukrainian sugar daddy)

"SECOND TRUMP BIDEN DEBATE CANCELED, ITS ALL RIGGED AS 3RD MODERATOR TRIES HIDING HER PAST TWEETS" ... Comet Pizza is her favorite place to lunch
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 10, 2020, 03:19:21 PM
Thinking about what I'm reading lately, and all the information I've gotten from the past is that Republicans get money from big donors and Democrats get money from the riff raff.  Of course the riff raff (god love us) doesn't have much money.  I've heard about several Trump donors, or maybe it's just a few donors several times that fork over 100 million at a time.
That's something that seems true, but it doesn't appear to be the case.

https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race/joe-biden/candidate?id=N00001669

https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race/donald-trump/candidate?id=N00023864

https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race/bernie-sanders/candidate?id=N00000528 (famous for his small-donations campaign, posted for contrast - note the relative lack of "outside groups")

Of course, this leaves out dark money, which is by definition unreported political spending, so your guess is as good as mine.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 10, 2020, 03:27:34 PM
And speaking of fundraising (https://www.npr.org/2020/09/21/915301313/biden-enters-campaigns-final-stretch-with-cash-advantage-over-trump):

At the beginning September (bear in mind this isn't super recent news, October's numbers haven't been officially posted yet afaik), the Biden campaign reported $466 million cash on hand compared to Trump's $325 million.

Quote
His [Trump's] campaign and the Republican National Committee spent almost all the money they took in during August, though they were still outspent by Biden's campaign and the Democratic National Committee, according to the filings.

Quote
On television advertisements, Biden outspent Trump nearly 4 to 1 in August, according to the tracking firm Ad Analytics.

Trump's campaign bought no ads on local TV in Pennsylvania, Michigan and New Hampshire, and was outspent by Biden significantly in Florida, North Carolina and Wisconsin.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 10, 2020, 03:32:19 PM
There isn't really much of a Trump campaign, I think, because the GOP is expecting to successfully steal the election, so why spend all that money now. They're only going through the motions so it won't t be so obvious that they're going to reinstall Trump no matter what it takes.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 10, 2020, 04:32:23 PM
There isn't really much of a Trump campaign, I think, because the GOP is expecting to successfully steal the election, so why spend all that money now. They're only going through the motions so it won't t be so obvious that they're going to reinstall Trump no matter what it takes.

All Dems are poor pacifists like Gandhi?  Goldman-Sachs wins every election.

"Now Biden Says Filling Ginsburg Seat 'Not Constitutional' - And Americans Don't 'Deserve To Know' If He'll Pack Court" ... all hail Emperor Biden!  So what kind of drugs are they giving him??
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on October 10, 2020, 06:38:20 PM
Fox News is calling for Biden to put country ahead of party.

They didn't even try to get T.rump to do the same.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 10, 2020, 07:31:32 PM
Fox News is calling for Biden to put country ahead of party.

They didn't even try to get T.rump to do the same.

Actually putting country ahead of party, would require outlawing both major parties, jailing all their leaders (see George Washington Farewell Address).  Do you really want that?  Or are you just a shill for your favorite party?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 11, 2020, 12:57:50 AM
Fox News is calling for Biden to put country ahead of party.

They didn't even try to get T.rump to do the same.

That's because they're shameless hypocrites who don't play by the same rules. When a Conservative Supreme Court justice died in Obama's last year in office, he didn't nominate a Democrat, because he knew the Republicans would be concerned about the court actually leaning to the Left the way they always liked to claim that it already was. Instead, Obama nominated a moderate, who didn't lean heavily in either direction. Because Democrats are willing to compromise. Now, for Fox News to tell Biden to put "country ahead of party," that's a complete joke. Biden was the most tame Democrat we had to choose from. He was chosen because he was safe and nonthreatening, not because he has these grand ideas about how he's going to fix things. They expect us to believe that Biden is a Socialist, that he's going to abolish the police and abolish the prisons? Please.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 11, 2020, 10:15:52 AM
"'Non-Partisan' Chairman Of Presidential Debate Commission Linked To Steele Dossier & More..." ... so called debates all being run from Hillary's Fuhrer bunker

"White House Doctor Says Trump No Longer At Risk Of Transmitting The Coronavirus" ... still capable of acting like an idiot ;-)

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 11, 2020, 12:42:58 PM
They expect us to believe that Biden is a Socialist, that he's going to abolish the police and abolish the prisons? Please.
I've wondered about this.  Are they so out of touch that they don't realize Biden is actually a moderate?  Maybe, maybe not.

Seems like a terrible strategy, to parade one's cluelessness.  But then I remembered their audience.  These people have commies under their beds, socialists in the closet, and "social marxists" in the cupboard.  Of course they're dumb enough to fall for this kind of stuff.

And this big-brained strategy may have a secondary goal - to try to drive a wedge between moderate Dems and leftists.  Every time the Biden camp denies that they'd back a Green New Deal or ban fracking, it presumably upsets the Bernie wing that actually wants those things and sows division in the Democratic Party's big tent.

If that's what they're stealthily going for, they're in for a rude awakening - the Sanders camp has already fallen in love and then fallen in line in the aftermath of the bitter primary season.  We understand what's at stake this election and the vast majority support Biden out of sheer pragmatic reasons (to say nothing of Sanders actively campaigning for Biden and finding some policy common ground)

Meanwhile, Trump has all but declared war on American voting rights, providing the Dems exactly the sort of common threat that they needed to solidify and even expand their coalition.  Whatever votes he hoped to peel away from the Dems are more than counteracted by the desperate alliances he helped form.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 11, 2020, 01:09:21 PM
538 is now giving Biden an 86% chance to win (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/).

And according to the state-by-state breakdown, Trump would have to win every state that leans his direction plus all the states where he's currently trailing by about 5% to win the election.

Trump would have to win:
Texas (51.1% Trump, 47.9% Biden)
Iowa (49.8% Trump, 48.9% Biden)
Georgia (49.9% Trump, 49.3% Biden)
Ohio (49.7% Biden, 49.3% Trump)
NC (50.6% Biden, 48.6% Trump)
Arizona (50.8% Biden, 47.9% Trump)
Florida (51.4% Biden, 47.8% Trump)
Wisconsin (52.8% Biden, 46.3% Trump)

It's unclear how he expects to win Ohio and Iowa after recently suspending all ad spending there.  Talking over his opponent is one of Trump's key strengths - letting Biden take the floor in the crucial month before the election is a hell of a risky strategy, but I guess that's what you have to do when you're in debt.

Meanwhile, Biden is surging his ads in Ohio, Iowa, Texas, and Georgia.  He gets to control the narrative in the first two, and really lean into Trump's shaky support in the last two.  Texas may be a long shot, but Georgia is a much closer race.  Losing that would be so embarrassing for Trump and the RNC.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 11, 2020, 01:55:09 PM
Biden has a 120% chance of winning because senile people are bad at arithmetic, but goes well with socialist, who also are bad at arithmetic ;-)

"Taliban Slams CBS 'Fake News', Refutes Claim They Endorse Trump" ... Trump killed ISIS leader.  Tried to make peace with Taliban (but Dems are war party) ... CIA runs opium production in Afghanistan, Taliban oppose drugs

"Putin Trolls Biden: Communists & Dems Share 'Common Values' While Trump Record Hard On Russia" ... Russia provided the false data on Trump to Steele so he could give it to Hillary.  Putin supported Hillary in 2016.  BLM is Marxist, and BLM supports the Dems so ... duh!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 12, 2020, 09:37:40 AM
"LATINOS FOR TRUMP LAUNCH MASSIVE ANTI-COMMUNIST CAR PARADE PROVING FLORIDA IS GOING TRUMP" .. they love communism

"SO MANY BIDEN FANS THINK HE LEGALIZED GAY MARRIAGE LOL" .. ignorance on the Dem plantation.  Like Al Gore invented the Internet.

"In Latest Teleblooper, Biden Calls For $15,000,000 Minimum Wage" ... "Sleepy Joe Biden had a particularly bad day today. He couldn’t remember the name of Mitt Romney, said again he was running for the U.S. Senate, and forgot what State he was in." ... in denial, insane, deceitful
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 13, 2020, 10:40:43 AM
“As Trump tilts his ‘great’ COVID drugs, the Pharma cash flows to Biden, not him” ... Big Pharma is one of the most malevolent forces on Earth

"Trump: "I Was Right About Damaging Lockdowns"" ... per new WHO guidance.  Proof that Trump is a Chinese agent

"Kanye West Asks Voters To Write In His Name For President With First Campaign Ad" ... If I were voting, I would vote for Kanye, the only real Black person in the Presidential election

""Hillary Auditions For SecDef In Sprawling Pro-Biden Op-Ed Admitting Massive Defense Jobs Cuts Plan"" ... she can hold there, while waiting the nod for VP from President Harris ... leading to President Harris getting Covid, and Hillary becoming President.  Also cut US forces so that China can safely invade Taiwan.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 13, 2020, 12:02:38 PM
Quote
Virginia’s Citizen Portal has gone down due to a cut fiber on Tuesday, preventing people from registering to vote online on the last day of voter registration before the Nov. 3 election, the Department of Elections says.

Residents can still register to vote by mailing in or dropping off paper applications.

Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax said that outages are reported statewide and called for the voter registration deadline to be extended beyond Tuesday. However, the Board of Elections hasn't announced plans to adjust the deadline.
There was a cut fiber somewhere in the vicinity of Richmond.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 13, 2020, 12:11:30 PM
There was a cut fiber somewhere in the vicinity of Richmond.

I support all legitimate voter registration, legitimate voting (as in NM).

"Whitmer kidnapping plot suspects also discussed abducting Virginia governor: FBI agent" ... attempt to smear Republicans?

"California hires Democratic operatives for 'Get Out The Vote' effort" ... legal?

"'Lacklustre Biden event' saw 30 attendees sit in their cars" ... even less rally attendance than animatronic Hillary in 2016 ;-)



Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 13, 2020, 12:42:02 PM
Early voting starts in two days and my husband told me he has changed his mind and is going to vote for Biden. Because NC is a battleground state I do think every vote matters.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 13, 2020, 12:53:43 PM
Early voting starts in two days and my husband told me he has changed his mind and is going to vote for Biden. Because NC is a battleground state I do think every vote matters.

Hope your state isn't shambolic.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 13, 2020, 06:49:28 PM
Early voting starts in two days and my husband told me he has changed his mind and is going to vote for Biden. Because NC is a battleground state I do think every vote matters.
NC is absolutely crucial.  Going in person asap.  Anticipating a long wait.  Gonna crawl on broken glass if I have to for this one, just to have the satisfaction of seeing that ballot get counted.

Better not be any electoral shenanigans.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 13, 2020, 08:03:51 PM
"Federal Judge Allows Clinton Foundation Whistleblower Complaint To Proceed, Rules IRS 'Abused Its Discretion'" ... maybe justice yet

"Never-Trump Group Is 2020's Top 'Dark Money' Spender So Far" ... Bill Crystal and other neo-Cons who were Trots in the 60s

"Trump Scores With Independents As Suburban Women Lean Left" ... election to be decided by the Karens?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 13, 2020, 09:56:15 PM
NC is absolutely crucial.  Going in person asap.  Anticipating a long wait.  Gonna crawl on broken glass if I have to for this one, just to have the satisfaction of seeing that ballot get counted.

Better not be any electoral shenanigans.


I always vote early, in person and I have not missed a major election. Other than paying taxes and obeying the law, I feel like there are very few civic duties asked of Americans.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 14, 2020, 03:16:01 AM
"Pelosi Slams CNN's Wolf Blitzer: "You're Always An Apologist For Republicans"" ... CNN is a hive of Republicans ... bwahah.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 14, 2020, 07:24:27 AM
Yesterday, I saw another Biden/Harris sign in my county.  That makes a total of three, or somewhere less than .01% of all the signs county wide.  There are probably more, but this represents a 20 mile radius of my house on the more traveled secondary roads, which are actually not that well traveled.  This is southwestern Virginia's version of "Democrats coming out of the woodwork."  Usually, there are no Democratic signs at all.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 14, 2020, 08:58:41 AM
Yesterday, I saw another Biden/Harris sign in my county.  That makes a total of three, or somewhere less than .01% of all the signs county wide.  There are probably more, but this represents a 20 mile radius of my house on the more traveled secondary roads, which are actually not that well traveled.  This is southwestern Virginia's version of "Democrats coming out of the woodwork."  Usually, there are no Democratic signs at all.
I live in CA, but in a county that went Bush both times and trump the last time.  I have not seen a trump nor Biden sign in my neighborhood, which is quite strange.  And I have seen only one presidential sign in any part of town--a Biden/Harris sign.  Usually those signs are everywhere.  The city, county and state signs are everywhere. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 14, 2020, 09:18:52 AM
Yesterday, I saw another Biden/Harris sign in my county.  That makes a total of three, or somewhere less than .01% of all the signs countywide.  There are probably more, but this represents a 20-mile radius of my house on the more traveled secondary roads, which are actually not that well-traveled.  This is southwestern Virginia's version of "Democrats coming out of the woodwork."  Usually, there are no Democratic signs at all.

Speaking of signs, this was in the local news. I think if this "police officer" had any integrity he or she would have had a conversation with their neighbor and not sent an anonymous letter.

Woman Receives Threatening Letter Over Yard Sign (https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nc/triad/news/2020/10/13/woman-receives-threatening-letter-over-yard-sign)

(https://img1.etsystatic.com/171/0/14672083/il_340x270.1194604301_7bxh.jpg)

GREENSBORO, N.C. — A Greensboro woman is turning to the police after receiving a threatening letter in response to her yard sign.

The sign states several philosophies like Black lives matter, love is love, science is real, and water is life. The letter used intimidating language and claimed Black Lives Matter is a Marxist revolutionary group that wants to overthrow the government.

The writer closed with, “You and your sign are disgusting. Signed, a police officer, who you may someday call if, at night while you are sleeping, intruders break into your home and you are in fear of your life.”

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/d747e495b35c6fe256560ccc5857e62a/2902b9d5b3ec099c-de/s1280x1920/49c095b5c1baa1eaca11e629b75af78807c5e03f.jpg)

Jennifer Erausquin, the woman the letter was directly addressed to, says she sees the letter as proof that we have a long way to go.

“I truly believe that what we need is faith in our community, faith that we can come together, that we can have conversations and come to a shared understanding about our community, humanity, and human rights,” Erausquin said. “I’m willing to have hard conversations and I will always respect other people’s beliefs and their right to free speech.”

Erausquin reported the letter to Greensboro police officers and they're working to track down where it came from.

They say they have received 845 reports like this so far this year, compared to 580 at this time last year.




Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 14, 2020, 11:39:59 AM
Republicans win = Dems go to Auschwitz
Democrats win = Reps go to Gulag

""Guillotines, Motherf*cker": Colorado Democratic Committee Member Caught On Hidden Camera Talking Violent Revolution" ... can we kill these animals already?

Can't wait for the genocide to start!!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 14, 2020, 12:41:25 PM
Trump claims he's winning over Bernie supporters.  He's wrong. (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-14/trump-is-wrong-he-isn-t-winning-bernie-sanders-voters-over-biden)

Quote
Trump’s contention that he’ll attract Sanders voters is based on the notion that he’s an economic populist and that voters on the left will overlook his record on race, immigration, and women, and spurn Joe Biden at the polls. The idea that Trump could win over a meaningful percentage of Sanders voters and left populists first originated with former Trump advisor Steve Bannon, who put this theory into action with disastrous results that led to his ouster from the White House.
Quote
According to a tracking poll from Drew Linzer of the data analytics firm Civiqs, people who supported Sanders in the Democratic primaries now favor Biden over Trump 84% to 4%. And Trump’s 4% is unlikely to grow: 94% of Sanders supporters have an unfavorable view of the president.
In 2016, Trump ran on a fake populism platform which most Sanders supporters correctly deduced was a lie.  This year, he's running on tear gas and plague.  Unfavorable is a bit of an understatement.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 14, 2020, 12:42:19 PM
Biden supporters are, regardless of age, only fit for the nursing home ;-))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 14, 2020, 12:51:17 PM
Judge orders Virginia voter registration extended (https://richmond.com/news/state-and-regional/federal-judge-orders-virginia-voter-registration-deadline-to-be-extended/article_0865ecff-a3e7-524d-bca2-5fe390543392.html).  This in response to a cable severed in an apparent job-site accident on the last day of voter registration, depriving some potential voters of the right to vote.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 14, 2020, 01:44:26 PM
Judge orders Virginia voter registration extended (https://richmond.com/news/state-and-regional/federal-judge-orders-virginia-voter-registration-deadline-to-be-extended/article_0865ecff-a3e7-524d-bca2-5fe390543392.html).  This in response to a cable severed in an apparent job-site accident on the last day of voter registration, depriving some potential voters of the right to vote.

VA governor said that was impossible ... per VA law.  So will this go further in the court?  Will one extra day of registration matter?  VA had computer problems with registration in 2016 too.

"Supreme Court Rules That Census Count Can Be Cut Short" .. basically Covid.  Per Covid, we should cancel the whole year of 2020, and start over in 2021 for election etc. ;-))

Interesting laptop abandoned at a computer repair store ...

"A Senate committee is investigating a bombshell cache of documents about Hunter Biden’s foreign dealings acquired by a Delaware computer repairman and exposed Wednesday by The Post." ... sounds like Joe didn't teach Hunter to use BleachBit.  Email about Joe meeting with Burisma in the WH in 4/2015 (which he has lied about).  Now not only expose this, but the Weiner laptop, that has copies of all of Hillary's evidence of crime on her part?

"Southwest Boots Black Trump Supporter For Lowering Face Mask To Eat" ... White Dems doing the same thing, weren't booted.  Southwest needs to keep the Blacks on the Dem plantation.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 15, 2020, 10:40:33 AM
"2 Individuals Linked To Biden Campaign Test Positive For COVID-19; Harris Suspends Campaign Until Monday" ... your turn!

"SECOND PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE REPLACED WITH COMPETING NBC AND ABC TOWN HALLS" ... what?  no dueling banjos?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsC4kf6x_Q0

You can play that while you watch one of the two flaming sacks of ...

My Ex and I both have Tennessee hillbillies a few generations back.  Them be fine folk, yeah!

"The Washington Post, Which Endorsed Biden, Says Biden Did Nothing Wrong" ... defenestrate MSM

"Twitter, Facebook Go Full Tilt Protecting Biden Just Weeks After Execs Join Transition Team" ... defenestrate Social Media
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 15, 2020, 10:45:35 PM
How did Trumplestilskin do in his latest campaign rally? I thought Biden did well in his conversation with voters. It was kind of boring actually, but that's just what I've been craving for years!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on October 15, 2020, 10:58:35 PM
I couldn't bring myself to watch any of the Oval Orifice's.  I did see someone on Discord comment that changing the channel from Trump's town hall to Biden's was like going from a performance artist slapping himself in the face with meat while farting into a kazoo to Bob Ross...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 16, 2020, 12:24:31 AM
It was kind of boring actually, but that's just what I've been craving for years!
I could really go for some boring after the last few years.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 16, 2020, 02:19:29 AM
How did Trumplestilskin do in his latest campaign rally? I thought Biden did well in his conversation with voters. It was kind of boring actually, but that's just what I've been craving for years!

Usually craving is for cigarettes or chocolate ;-)

"Dueling Townhalls Post Mortem: Snarling Savannah Vs Gentle George & Not A Single Question About Hunter Biden" ... Bwahah

"The 2020 Election Bamboozle: We Are All Victims Of The Deep State's Con Game" ... Election of 1788, Washington and Franklin were the original Deep State
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 16, 2020, 01:09:50 PM
People in my Facebook feed are seriously trying to spread this story that Biden's family are the "most corrupt political family in history." Umm... Have you forgotten Trump's family? Yeah, kinda hard to take you seriously when we still have the guy who flirts with dictators, murderers, and white supremacists in the White House.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 16, 2020, 01:20:24 PM
People in my Facebook feed are seriously trying to spread this story that Biden's family are the "most corrupt political family in history." Umm... Have you forgotten Trump's family? Yeah, kinda hard to take you seriously when we still have the guy who flirts with dictators, murderers, and white supremacists in the White House.

All human beings are deplorables?  Including yours ;-)  Jail all humans, execute them all for their countless crimes against humanity ;-))

Seriously, Bill and Hillary are miles more evil than the Bidens or the Obamas.  Democrats are slavers since Andrew Jackson, but slavery has changed over time.  Republicans were Whigs (Yankee plutocrats).  President Jackson was elected to take them down, and he did, shutting down the predecessor of the Federal Reserve, and bringing about the first Great Depression ... in 1836.  From 1913-1933 it was a bipartisan thing to bring about the second Great Depression (using the new Federal Reserve as a partner).  Woodrow Wilson was one of the most evil Presidents, and he was a Democrat.  Same with Herbert Hoover, an evil Republican.  Y'all are being played, and played.  In my time, LBJ was far more evil than Nixon.

"TIKTOKERS TRIED TO CHEAT BIDEN TOWNHALL RATINGS ABOVE TRUMP BUT FAILED, TRUMP NEARLY DOUBLES RATIN.." .. election interference by useful idiots of CCP app, like with Tulsa rally two months ago.  Dems are the most pathetic and bad losers.  This is all by DNC morans, I don't blame the average deplorable.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 16, 2020, 03:16:07 PM
People in my Facebook feed are seriously trying to spread this story that Biden's family are the "most corrupt political family in history."
Always projection with these people.  You can actually use that to get a pretty solid bead on what they're up to.  Corruption.  Election fraud.  Fake...everything.  Etc.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 16, 2020, 04:13:33 PM
Republicans ... evil doers accusing of innocent Democrats of evil ... don't hold your bets or your breath on that tribalism.

"Hunter Biden Business Associate Flips From Prison, Releases Emails Detailing China Influence-Peddling Operation" ... from 2011.  Bad to the Bone Bidens
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 17, 2020, 11:30:51 AM
"Biden Slams CBS Reporter For Asking About The Hunter Biden Scandal" ... yes, MSM are such skinheads.  Always going soft on the Republicans and savaging the Democrats ... Reeee,  just like recently when Wolf Blitzer didn't let Nancy Pelosi control both sides of her interview.  In the coming utopia, reporters only ask the questions the politicians want, and only comment on the politicians responses the way the politicians want.  Got tyranny?

""Hunter Biden's Story Is PROOF POSITIVE Of Collusion Between Media, Democrats, It's UNDENIABLE" ... MSM was part of DNC back in the 60s or LBJ wouldn't have got away with evil
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 17, 2020, 02:32:46 PM
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/17/trump-losing-polls-429986

Quote
“Could you imagine if I lose?” Trump said Friday evening at a campaign rally in Macon, Ga. “My whole life, what am I going to do? I’m going to say, 'I lost to the worst candidate in the history of politics.' I’m not going to feel so good. Maybe I’ll have to leave the country. I don’t know.”
Say hi to Snowden for me.

But hey, it's not all bad for Trump, Liberty University has him on track to beat Hillary Clinton this year.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 17, 2020, 02:43:51 PM
I support Snowden and Putin ;-)  Putin is a real man, not a washed up senior.  Snowden committed a crime, but is more patriotic about liberty than either candidate.  America is evil and must be destroyed (says every SJW etc).

Russo-phobia combined with Sino-philia ... interesting, but stupid (says German guy on tricycle from Laugh-In).

"Kristen Welker, upcoming presidential debate moderator, has deep Democrat ties" ... everyone in politics has committed horrible immoral acts, on camera (often with the assistance of Epstein), so they can be blackmailed by the CIA.  Wonder what they have on Kristen.

"Full Story Behind Hunter's Laptop Debunks Latest Russia Conspiracy Theory" ... tag on computer has Hunter's signature ... Putin mind control made him do it, then made him take drugs (and worse things), made him take money for foreign concerns for access to his dad ... all because his dad is The Manchurian Candidate.

"Senate Homeland Committee Demands Answers From FBI Over Hunter Biden Laptop" ... waterboard the FBI to find out who the Dems are, then defenestrate the Dems.  FBI had this laptop since last December, and did nothing.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 17, 2020, 06:07:23 PM
Oh, my god. Now they're trying to say that Obama and Biden faked Osama Bin Laden's death. This is hilarious shit. Trump is just throwing shit at the wall, and seeing what sticks. He's getting desperate.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mermaid on October 17, 2020, 06:17:26 PM
Oh, my god. Now they're trying to say that Obama and Biden faked Osama Bin Laden's death. This is hilarious shit. Trump is just throwing shit at the wall, and seeing what sticks. He's getting desperate.
I don't think it's hilarious. He is clearly just making shit up, and all of it's sticking. His base believes every word that comes from his disgusting mouth. It worked great at the last election. Hillary-gate and all.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 17, 2020, 06:22:13 PM
I don't think it's hilarious. He is clearly just making shit up, and all of it's sticking. His base believes every word that comes from his disgusting mouth. It worked great at the last election. Hillary-gate and all.

The emails thing is more believable. Even if I do think it's horseshit. But the idea that Bin Laden was never actually killed? Where's he been all this time? Wouldn't he want to let people know he was still causing trouble for America? I mean, which is easier, killing Bin Laden or finding a body double to play the part of Bin Laden, killing the double, then shooting down the soldiers who took part to cover it up? Trump's loyal sheep will lap it up, of course, but I don't think the general public is stupid enough to take that seriously.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 17, 2020, 06:35:28 PM
The emails thing is more believable. Even if I do thing it's horseshit. But the idea that Bin Laden was never actually killed? Where's he been all this time? Wouldn't he want to let people know he was still causing trouble for America? I mean, which is easier, killing Bin Laden or finding a body double to play the part of Bin Laden, killing the double, then shooting down the soldiers who took part to cover it up? Trump's loyal sheep will lap it up, of course, but I don't think the general public is stupid enough to take that seriously.
I listened to a podcast about this and bear in mind that these people are supposed to be more or less average Americans (queue the general idiocy) and their general impression is that the operation was so sudden, the body disposed of so quickly, and not really documented that it comes across as very suspicious.  This whole chain of events is fertile ground for conspiracy/denialism and therefore Trump's assertion is somewhat reasonable and whether or not Bin Laden is dead is an open question.

Of course, they didn't have a particularly well-read impression.  From what I've gathered, Bin Laden was indeed identified and he was buried out at sea so there would be no gravesite (which no Middle Eastern country would want) and minimal political fallout.

The moral of the story is that you can take just about anything, give part of the story (it's helpful to know as little as possible for this part) and make it sound extremely suspicious and therefore some big conspiracy.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 17, 2020, 07:09:18 PM
Even God has no idea what Trump is going to say next.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 17, 2020, 07:14:43 PM
Oh, my god. Now they're trying to say that Obama and Biden faked Osama Bin Laden's death. This is hilarious shit. Trump is just throwing shit at the wall, and seeing what sticks. He's getting desperate.

Not clear, because of the body being disposed of.  Osama had several sons as tall as he was (he was taller than normal), and he is rumored to have had body doubles.  Supposedly the DNA of relatives confirms the kill, but that might only confirm it is one of his sons.  The old rumor was that the FBI visited Osama in a Dubai hospital in August 2001.  He had health problems, and may have died.  His people could have invested in using a body double to pretend he was still alive.  These rumors were around long before Trump was elected.  Trump as President could have seen the classified report, but he is no genetics expert.  Obama as President may have found even a false kill to be politically helpful, since this was a year before his re-election.

https://www.history.com/news/the-costliest-day-in-seal-team-six-history

So this falls into the conspiracy theory, as most people on the Osama raid didn't live long.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 17, 2020, 07:15:08 PM
Even God has no idea what Trump is going to say next.

Twitter gives and Twitter takes away ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on October 17, 2020, 07:18:34 PM
I know a few guys who got sucked into Talk radio. Fox, Breitbart, Hannity. Everyone knows a guy like this. Their lives may have not exactly played out like they thought and this stuff gives them an excuse... an enemy to blame. Otherwise good men who get addicted and consumed by it. Some of their wives too, but not always. One guy like this was my mentor. He mentioned his family couldn't stand to be around him anymore. It is all he talked about. I was apolitical at the time, too busy with tech stuff. He got so worked up with hate of "libtards" he gave himself a heart attack and then another and finally a fatal stroke. The last time I saw him he was enjoying chatting "engineering" with a bunch of liberals. Just gotta steer clear of certain topics. Just treat them like addicts. These manipulators know how to get the brain chemicals moving.

There is a documentary about it.

https://www.thebrainwashingofmydad.com/
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 17, 2020, 07:27:22 PM
Freud's nephew, Edward Bernays, invented media brainwashing, we have been brainwashed professionally since about 1923.  MSM does it long before Social Media was created.  Back in the 90s I tried Rush Limbaugh, but I was unimpressed.  Same with Alex Jones later.  Some people are their own worst enemies (Rush with oxycontin).  He worked for US propaganda during WWI.  Bernays promoted women smoking, in 1929, as part of women's liberation (he was paid by Big Tobacco).  In the early 50s he worked with the CIA to destabilize Guatemala.

You can fool all the people all the time, make them vote the way you want, get them to purchase unnecessary quantities of detergent.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on October 17, 2020, 09:00:50 PM
Even God has no idea what Trump is going to say next.
Like all humans, the issue is not so much what they say, as what they wish they could. With tRump, that is a very scary.....
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 18, 2020, 12:13:44 AM
Like all humans, the issue is not so much what they say, as what they wish they could. With tRump, that is a very scary.....

Humans are the most dangerous predator on this planet.  It is wise to not trust any of them with your back turned ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 18, 2020, 09:41:37 AM
"Twitter Refuses To Unlock NYPost Account Unless Paper Deletes Tweets About Hunter Biden" ... quid pro quo, like Genie says isn't an option, but Joe Biden loves.

"Before The Bidens "Did" Ukraine, There Was Iraq... And Serbia" .. worldwide grifting by the Elite
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on October 18, 2020, 04:21:55 PM
People in my Facebook feed are seriously trying to spread this story that Biden's family are the "most corrupt political family in history." Umm... Have you forgotten Trump's family? Yeah, kinda hard to take you seriously when we still have the guy who flirts with dictators, murderers, and white supremacists in the White House.
Not to mention the Bush family's long-standing relationship with the House of Saud and their protection of the nation from which most of the 9/11 terrorists came from.  There are a lot of Republicans to get through before the Biden family is even the smallest blip on the criminality radar.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 18, 2020, 05:20:08 PM
Not to mention the Bush family's long-standing relationship with the House of Saud and their protection of the nation from which most of the 9/11 terrorists came from.  There are a lot of Republicans to get through before the Biden family is even the smallest blip on the criminality radar.

Oh, Obama war criminal?  Yes, him too.  The Bidens are minor criminals, like Pelosi, Schiff etc.

Evidence on the Biden family hid by FBI since last November?  If it had come out 10 months ago, the Biden family would be on trial, and Bernie Sanders would be the Dem candidate.  I think that would have been a better outcome, an honest communist vs a crime family.  But that wouldn't have suited the Clintons at all.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 19, 2020, 07:42:00 AM
Trump: if Biden is elected, he'll listen to the scientists (https://www.axios.com/trump-warns-lockdowns-if-biden-elected-scientists-c1263b65-15c9-47a1-9d6b-63161f6c5170.html)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 19, 2020, 09:54:26 AM
"BIDEN SLAMMED BY UNION FOR LYING AND CLAIMING THEY ENDORSED HIM WHEN THEY ENDORSED TRUMP" ... ugly senility

"COPS BEG JOE BIDEN TO STOP SAYING THEY SHOULD SHOOT PEOPLE IN THE LEG" ... another moran

"TRUMP CAMP CLAIMS DEM GOVERNOR CALLED FOR ASSASSINATION SAYING "86 45" WIKIPEDIA SCRUBS DEFINITION" ... Whitmer is nuts

"CUOMO, DEBLASIO SHOW US WHAT A BIDEN PRESIDENCY WOULD BE LIKE... DYSFUNCTIONAL AND UNCONSTITUTIONA.." ... demonology.  Cuomo and Hillary both want positions in the Biden/Harris dictatorship.

"New Data Analysis Finds 353 Counties With 1.8 Million More Registered Voters Than Residents" ... tip of the corrupt voting iceberg

"New York's Botched Ballot Mailing, Primary Debacle Rattle Voter Confidence" ... put Cuoma/DeBlasio in charge of America
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 19, 2020, 02:01:14 PM
Trump: if Biden is elected, he'll listen to the scientists (https://www.axios.com/trump-warns-lockdowns-if-biden-elected-scientists-c1263b65-15c9-47a1-9d6b-63161f6c5170.html)

Oh no! Not the scientists! We need a leader who listens to people who actually know what they're talking about, like this guy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JRLCBb7qK8
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 19, 2020, 03:42:06 PM
https://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/8-scientific-conspiracies-that-turned-out-to-be-true/page-4/

Please consume the pesticide atrazine so you can become a true snowflake ;-)  I still have my doubts about floridating the public water supply.

As the article says, in some species (not humans) it is perfectly natural to switch sex.  Please don't share a selfie of self castration ;-) ... the market for eunuchs has dried up ;-))

"Streisand Effect: Twitter Ban On Biden Laptop Scandal Nearly Doubled Visibility According To MIT" ... bwahaha
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 20, 2020, 08:24:23 AM
Natalie Wynn makes an appeal to leftists who are too edgy to participate in the electoral farce.

https://youtu.be/t3Vah8sUFgI

"Even though Biden is not my boy, I still think dethroning Trump by electing Biden is the single most important thing any American can do right now. ... To me, voting is more of a utilitarian calculation based on the likely consequences of each candidate winning. It's not hero worship, it's not choosing a person to have a beer with, it's strategy."
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 20, 2020, 11:26:40 AM
"Sperry Exposes The Complete History Of Hunter Biden's Crony-Connected Jobs" ... Hunter has been working his dad's crooked deals since he graduated from college, so I believe his dad was making him give him half of his "income" since it was a way to launder campaign contributions ;-(

Lots of politicians have done this, but I don't approve of Joe abusing his son like this.

""This Is Not A Russian Hoax": 'Nonpublic Information' Debunks Letter From '50 Former Intel Officials'" ... who are currently Dems?  If they are former officials, it is OK for them to be partisan.

""WHAT THE F*CK! IM OUT": Rapper 50 Cent Melts Down Over Biden-Harris Tax Plan, Endorses Trump" ... oh, some rich finally realize they aren't part of the Clinton/Obama/Biden club?

"NEW HARD EVIDENCE DROPS ON HUNTER AND JOE BIDEN SCANDAL, FAKE NEWS DESPERATELY LIES SCREAMING RUSS.." .. the Russians are gods of chess, Americans are losers at checkers

"Project Veritas Drops A HUGE Inside Video For GOOGLE, They ADMIT To 'Playing God' With Election" ... atheists now forbidden from using Google ;-)

"DEBUNKED! Wikipedia Editors Back Bidens, Stifle Dissent" ... Wikipedia also founded by the CIA

"TRUMP GOES TO CHURCH, LEGACY MEDIA OUTRAGED" ... a real Republican sould have taken money out of the plate, not put money in ;-)

"Mark Zuckerberg Donates Hundreds Of Millions To Increase Voter Turnout In Democratic Strongholds" .. nothing illegal about that, he should give all his money to Hillary, who will know what to do with it ;-)

"Rudy Giuliani Turns Over Alleged Photos Of Underage Girls From Hunter's Hard Drive To Delaware Police" .. FBI won't do anything.  Hunter's two partners in the Ukraine scam are already in jail for corruption.  The MSM won't tell you that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 21, 2020, 10:52:47 AM
Some kind of record breaking super pac is funding mega millions to Biden, who is apparently outspending Trump by double or something like that.  I guess this is considered some kind of indicator of who's ahead, but I'm astounded at why blatant ads can be that effective.  Ads are not like actual news coverage, which seems like a better indicator of who would be the better choice.  People are affected by ads to be sure, which is what Madison Ave is all about, but ads don't tell you what you need to know.  They are mostly lies, whether they are for a political candidate or Ibuprofen.  And mega millions of ads funneled into a swing state seems like it would get tiresome.

Maybe a big campaign war chest tells us that more people support a candidate, but who are these people?  Big money comes from big corporations, with their own motives, and of course they are going to pour money into Biden's account, because he's the most likely winner.  No sense giving Trump money if he's not going to be there to do your bidding.  It's not like giving money to a candidate is an endorsement, It's about buying the candidate.  It tells us who the winner will be doing the favors for, and it's most likely not going to be you.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 21, 2020, 11:08:50 AM
Well, after all, SGOS, money is free speech.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 21, 2020, 11:16:07 AM
Well, after all, SGOS, money is free speech.
What happens to the money they don't spend, or does that never happen?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 21, 2020, 11:40:33 AM
Trump: if Biden is elected, he'll listen to the scientists (https://www.axios.com/trump-warns-lockdowns-if-biden-elected-scientists-c1263b65-15c9-47a1-9d6b-63161f6c5170.html)

What does that even mean? Is he mocking? What is it? America is not in depression? The world is in depression, America is not floating in space.

The thing with people who think they hold absolute power is that they see the world in black and white and the world is never black and white. So he's actually been doing what he claims is harmful for the country the whole time.

I also wonder what he understand from the word 'scientist'. Whats her face, the demon sex lady? Isn't that the scientist for these people?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 21, 2020, 11:47:10 AM
There is a series of these billboards in Greensboro. I wonder how effective they are.

(https://www.pennlive.com/resizer/eVeZyUSusYs5Ki8AqZotjbsZUv8=/1280x0/smart/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/advancelocal/7ANIYQUKCJCILCE2MZNSE7KTWE.jpg)

(https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BB19CnDT.img?h=315&w=600&m=6&q=60&o=t&l=f&f=jpg&x=248&y=177)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 11:55:42 AM
Some kind of record breaking super pac is funding mega millions to Biden, who is apparently outspending Trump by double or something like that.  I guess this is considered some kind of indicator of who's ahead, but I'm astounded at why blatant ads can be that effective.  Ads are not like actual news coverage, which seems like a better indicator of who would be the better choice.  People are affected by ads to be sure, which is what Madison Ave is all about, but ads don't tell you what you need to know.  They are mostly lies, whether they are for a political candidate or Ibuprofen.  And mega millions of ads funneled into a swing state seems like it would get tiresome.

Maybe a big campaign war chest tells us that more people support a candidate, but who are these people?  Big money comes from big corporations, with their own motives, and of course they are going to pour money into Biden's account, because he's the most likely winner.  No sense giving Trump money if he's not going to be there to do your bidding.  It's not like giving money to a candidate is an endorsement, It's about buying the candidate.  It tells us who the winner will be doing the favors for, and it's most likely not going to be you.

China + Soros + Bloomberg + ActBlue (getting money from BLM and AntiFa) + corporations joining Cthulhu (they want to be the last eaten).  That is why Trump isn't loved by corporations, he is wealthy enough to not give an F.

Per road signs above ... some people are Uncle Toms ;-)  The first one should add "I'm a Karen".  How dare they stereotype White people as blondes!!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 11:56:08 AM
What happens to the money they don't spend, or does that never happen?

Buys Bernie another house ;-))

Old film short, but now I know Pence is Shiva!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-hYq3Y9IoU

This is why Buddhism is better than Hinduism ... the Buddha would embrace his inner "flyness" ;-)  On that note ...

"Hunter Biden Witness Moved From Prison Cell After Exposing Influence-Peddling Operation" ... lots or arkancides coming, gone the way of Jeffery Epstein, Seth Rich and Vince Foster, no inner peace.

"THE FINAL PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE MICROPHONE MUTING ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE" ... mute both candidates completely.  DNC moderator can put words in Biden's mouth and Trump's mouth.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 21, 2020, 02:28:55 PM
What happens to the money they don't spend, or does that never happen?
I've wondered that myself.  Is that one of the reasons there are no poor people serving in congress--either house??  With the orange monster, there is no mystery--like a good mob boss, it goes into his pockets.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 21, 2020, 02:43:17 PM
What does that even mean? Is he mocking? What is it? America is not in depression? The world is in depression, America is not floating in space.

The thing with people who think they hold absolute power is that they see the world in black and white and the world is never black and white. So he's actually been doing what he claims is harmful for the country the whole time.

I also wonder what he understand from the word 'scientist'. Whats her face, the demon sex lady? Isn't that the scientist for these people?
Trump claimed that the scientists would lock everything down (apparently for no reason) slowing down the economy.  So yes, he meant listen to the scientists as if it were a bad thing.

And yes, we are in an economic depression right now.  Maybe if we locked everything down, got cases under control, then reopened safely, that wouldn't have happened.  Guess we'll never know.  What I do know is that this disease is still running rampant, the POTUS alternates between playing the blame game and being deeply in denial (true leadership right there), and a lot of places are still closed because there's still no safe way to open.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 21, 2020, 02:47:45 PM
Trump: "nobody wants me", leaves event early (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/nobody-wants-me-trump-plays-sympathy-card-at-pennsylvania-rally-before-cutting-event-short-and-dancing-off-stage-to-ymca-b1200436.html)

Quote
In one of his most bizarre and incoherent performances to date, president Donald Trump on Tuesday night told a Pennsylvania rally "nobody wants me" before cutting the event short and dancing off the stage to YMCA.

Outmuscled financially and trailing Joe Biden in most national and battleground polls, Mr Trump did not appear to be his usual energetic self, as he addressed thousands of Make America Great Again supporters crammed into a chilly and dark Erie International Airport.

Two weeks out from election day the president, 74, complained about the temperature, which had been hovering around 10C (50F) telling the crowd he was only there because he was losing, a highly unusual move – even for a president as unpredictable as Mr Trump.

At one point, the commander-in-chief appeared to be trying to get the crowd to feel sorry for him, telling them "nobody wants me".
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 02:55:57 PM
I've wondered that myself.  Is that one of the reasons there are no poor people serving in congress--either house??  With the orange monster, there is no mystery--like a good mob boss, it goes into his pockets.

It is all about money.  You can shrive your soul by sending me all of yours ;-)

Back in the day, candidates pocketed lots of money in campaigns that didn't go the campaign.  And lots of lobbyist bribes went to officials while in office.  They tried to reform this a few decades ago, but the reforms have been an utter failure.

On Trump, y'all find his NYC humor incomprehensible.  Bunch of Cali surfer bums ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 21, 2020, 02:56:13 PM
Quote
"nobody wants me"

Maybe he is coming down from some substance?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 02:57:29 PM
Maybe he is coming down from some substance?

Disembodied Twitter spirits would say that ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 04:21:21 PM
"Joe Biden Insists Son Never Profited Off Family Name; Except Hunter And Ex-President Of Poland Say He Did" ... perfect politician, he doesn't know when he is lying

""Piles Of Stolen Mail On The Side Of The Road": Ballot Thefts Reported In Two Portland-Metro Suburbs" ... end voting now

"Secret Service Travel Logs Match Details In Alleged Hunter Biden Emails" ... proof SS is infiltrated by KGB

"Hunter Biden Emails Debunk 'No Burisma Investigation' Claims" ... no there there
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on October 21, 2020, 05:25:42 PM
Long voting line tip: Rent a walker with a seat.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 05:43:06 PM
Long voting line tip: Rent a walker with a seat.

I have one of my mom's ... for future use ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 21, 2020, 06:24:32 PM
Long lines keep the proletariat in line.  We are now about where the Soviet Union was in 1950.  America is Great Again.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 21, 2020, 06:53:50 PM
Maybe he is coming down from some substance?

He was apparently on a very powerful steroid. So maybe. Or maybe he's finally getting the hint that the only people who like him are evangelical nutcases, white supremacists, rednecks, and evangelical white-supremacist rednecks. And the super rich, of course.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 07:32:40 PM
Long lines keep the proletariat in line.  We are now about where the Soviet Union was in 1950.  America is Great Again.

Do that better.  Stalin has Beria liquidated and lives forever ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 07:33:46 PM
He was apparently on a very powerful steroid. So maybe. Or maybe he's finally getting the hint that the only people who like him are evangelical nutcases, white supremacists, rednecks, and evangelical white-supremacist rednecks. And the super rich, of course.

You can't know people by their friends, but by their enemies.  Starbuck's Triple Soy Latte drinkers make good enemies ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 21, 2020, 07:56:45 PM
He was apparently on a very powerful steroid. So maybe. Or maybe he's finally getting the hint that the only people who like him are evangelical nutcases, white supremacists, rednecks, and evangelical white-supremacist rednecks. And the super rich, of course.
It was hard to read his body language in that little snippet.  I would say he looked dramatically unlike himself, but what he was feeling I'm not sure.  I though maybe resignation to his likely loss in November?  He was trying to make a joke about not being wanted by China and Iraq, but he looked worn out, which would be natural in recovery from Coronavirus, and we don't know when they took him off the Dex, so he could be crashing.  I wonder if he's going to be too tired to bully Biden tomorrow night.  I plan on watching the "debate" for at least 20 minutes, and then turning it off, unless it's actually interesting and not a version of reality TV.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 07:59:28 PM
We are living in reality TV as contestants.  Will you be kicked of The Island?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 21, 2020, 08:05:02 PM
I might watch the SNL skit of the debate. I'm sure it'll be more worth my time than the real thing.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on October 21, 2020, 08:13:15 PM
He was apparently on a very powerful steroid. So maybe. Or maybe he's finally getting the hint that the only people who like him are evangelical nutcases, white supremacists, rednecks, and evangelical white-supremacist rednecks. And the super rich, of course.
Why do I have this mental image of baby boomers/X leaving a country half-flooded and half-on-fire to an early onset diabetic generation that has started adulthood in-debt, living in their parent's (2nd mortgaged) house with a shelf full of participation trophies while a pandemic rages needlessly?

Holy run-on sentence Batman.

Being on the Boomer-X cusp myself...I am rooting for millennials. They are way more socially conscience, green minded, mostly godless and when they get their shit together they will save the planet and the species. Hopefully Trump will be the final really bad contribution that us boomers can muster up before we check out. We need to keep our sense of humor about all of this. Somehow. Life is still wonderful and beautiful and people are still basically good.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 10:22:06 PM
SNL?  Like when Bill Burr mocked y'all?

Hate Boomers?  Want to kill us before or after you toss us in the nursing home?

Oh, I thought Millennials were the worst generation, now they are the master race?

I support all the 20-60 year olds, because you are the ones that have to make things happen.  But not out of any generational prejudice.  Children are too young and seniors are too old.

"Putin says US Democratic Party 'closer to Social Democratic ideas,' would work with 'any future president'" .. he helped Hillary, not Trump.  He will help Biden too, because Biden is China's bitch, and China is Putin's ally ... "Agency heads say it involves hacked voter registration information as well as 'spoofed' emails sent to Democrats in order to damage President Trump" ... bwahah


Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on October 21, 2020, 10:39:03 PM
I'll tell ya, my parents didn't wanna be my friend and didn't give a damn about seeming cool to my friends. In fact they went out of their way to embarrass me by being as uncool as they could be. Hell, I love them !
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 11:54:35 PM
I'll tell ya, my parents didn't wanna be my friend and didn't give a damn about seeming cool to my friends. In fact they went out of their way to embarrass me by being as uncool as they could be. Hell, I love them !

Parents ... can't live with them, can't be born/raised without them ;-)  You got to be you (you adult you).  Sorry they are dorks, "it is the way" per Mandalorian.  Parents live to embarrass their children, but usually when they are teenagers and are too emo.  You can embarrass them back, in love.  I certainly did.  I have never complained about my daughter's politics (but I gripe to myself).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 22, 2020, 12:53:45 AM
Being on the Boomer-X cusp myself...I am rooting for millennials. They are way more socially conscience, green minded, mostly godless and when they get their shit together they will save the planet and the species.
I mean, we're sorta more liberal than previous generations (true of Gen Z as well) but there's one incy wincy problem...

(https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/5V13iZ8Nj12FFfM-0gEtmuvo27s=/300x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost/public/ZQ2CUAWWCJD3XHI4B6PDJIURN4.png)

It's all that avocado toast and vidja games, surely...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 22, 2020, 03:50:28 AM
He was apparently on a very powerful steroid. So maybe. Or maybe he's finally getting the hint that the only people who like him are evangelical nutcases, white supremacists, rednecks, and evangelical white-supremacist rednecks. And the super rich, of course.

Yeah it's probably the drugs and they'll adjust the dose or come up with a better arrangement. Or it is some sort of an act.

But wouldn't they know that? For whatever reason he is taking it, they would know it has side affects like this. Because this is not a 70 something year old living at the next door whose behavioural disorders only affect the wife, the dog and neighbours who constantly avoids him. He is a president.

If it is an act or a combination of drugs and act; if they are letting it happen for the means of some strategy, it is gonna get really creepy. I swear, I can picture him crying in front of the cameras; telling how much he loves you all one by one, how he was thinking about only you when he did anything and for this great country OR even blaming some deep state for the last 4 years on whatever he has said and done. It's going to be a Rick and Morty episode, buckle up. 

In any case, the moment he is sure he can't get elected again, he will cry. Mark my words.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on October 22, 2020, 08:39:58 AM
I mean, we're sorta more liberal than previous generations (true of Gen Z as well) but there's one incy wincy problem...

(https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/5V13iZ8Nj12FFfM-0gEtmuvo27s=/300x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost/public/ZQ2CUAWWCJD3XHI4B6PDJIURN4.png)

It's all that avocado toast and vidja games, surely...

Yeah, that is a flat and low line for millennials alright. However...I dare say that most of that boomer wealth is concentrated in a very few individuals. The rest of it is anything but liquid; most (~>60%) is tied up in home equity. That's why Tom Selleck is on TV selling reverse mortgages so that some gen X's and millennials don't even get the house. The concentration of wealth has been extraordinary during the reign of the boomer. The stock market and patience are key mechanisms. When young, inexperienced people try to break in.. the reddit stock boards show what often happens:
(https://i.ibb.co/wYHYspP/Image5.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 22, 2020, 09:27:47 AM
The answer to a Boomer is a pre Boomer?

Trump born 1946
Biden born 1942

Generational wealth has been systematically suppressed since Ronald Reagan.  This is bipartisan, because both parties work for the same Elites.

See chart repeated by Hillary who is a wealthy Boomer/Elite ;-)

https://www.epi.org/blog/inequality-central-productivity-pay-gap/

Boomers and later have all suffered from a productivity vs wage gap, and from inflation.  There is more unemployment and underemployment than in the WWII generation who benefited from the unique post-WWII boom.  Today work is more part-time than before, with less benefits after inflation.  This is why in my parent's generation, a blue-collar worker who had full employment and good benefits could be married with children and the wife only worked if she wanted to and only part time even then.

"$1 in 1980 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $3.15 in 2020, a difference of $2.15 over 40 years" a decline in value by more than 2/3.

Most of my income over 40 years was spent on daily expenses and credit card interest (something my parent's didn't have).  A great deal was burned because of cyclical unemployment.  For most of the Boomers, a great deal was spent on mortgage payments, their house being their primary investment, and many put a second mortgage on it during the go-go years before 2009 aka the bank still owns the house (and the government ultimately owns it thru eminent domain).

The next generation will see little inheritance, because of uncovered medical expenses, mortgages underwater, and funeral expenses.  The first and third items nearly exhausted my parent's estate, along with my mother living to a very old age.  They did benefit uniquely by a positive housing market that they cashed out of around 2009 or before.  My real estate was a net loss before retirement.  Beware that any paper assets are of ephemeral value compared to even real estate, since they are all based on the bigger fool theory.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 22, 2020, 09:28:35 AM
Why do I have this mental image of baby boomers/X leaving a country half-flooded and half-on-fire to an early onset diabetic generation that has started adulthood in-debt, living in their parent's (2nd mortgaged) house with a shelf full of participation trophies while a pandemic rages needlessly?

Holy run-on sentence Batman.



LOL, Cassia. That had a VR effect on me.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 22, 2020, 09:36:46 AM
Starting in particular with Obama, Millennials and their parents were sold on going into ridiculous debt for a valueless college degree.  But this decline started much earlier.  For a pre-/early Boomer generation, college was even free in-state, and the value of even a non-STEM degree wasn't diluted by too many kids going to college, or by all genuine jobs being exported to India and China.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 22, 2020, 10:13:16 AM
"New Biden Biz Partner Emerges, Confirms "Big Guy" Joe Directly Involved In China Deal" .. potential suicides keep multiplying

"Hunter Biden Laptop Linked To FBI Money Laundering Investigation" ... all the pols do it, but most don't keep their big wad in a washing machine.  one pol kept his in the freezer.

"Fears Of Biden Capital Gains Tax Hike Spark Avalanche Of Private Company Sales" ... Biden is good for giant multinationals, not others

"Home Depot Co-Founder: "Fraud" To Suggest Middle-Class Won't See Higher Taxes Under Biden" ... duh, soak the rich never happens ... “It’s absolutely a fraud... The only way a tax increase will generate revenues is to go after the middle class. That’s where the numbers are. These people are being misled...”
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 22, 2020, 11:07:20 AM
Yeah it's probably the drugs and they'll adjust the dose or come up with a better arrangement. Or it is some sort of an act.

But wouldn't they know that? For whatever reason he is taking it, they would know it has side affects like this. Because this is not a 70 something year old living at the next door whose behavioural disorders only affect the wife, the dog and neighbours who constantly avoids him. He is a president.

If it is an act or a combination of drugs and act; if they are letting it happen for the means of some strategy, it is gonna get really creepy. I swear, I can picture him crying in front of the cameras; telling how much he loves you all one by one, how he was thinking about only you when he did anything and for this great country OR even blaming some deep state for the last 4 years on whatever he has said and done. It's going to be a Rick and Morty episode, buckle up. 

In any case, the moment he is sure he can't get elected again, he will cry. Mark my words.

They haven't been able to control the President's behavior before. Why start now?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 22, 2020, 12:04:42 PM
They haven't been able to control the President's behavior before. Why start now?

Lincoln was elected by 35% of the vote, and provoked a Civil War.  John Wilkes Booth took too long to control him.

Who are they?  The MSM shills?  The CIA/FBI who assassinated JFK and control every pol via blackmail?  Now the public knows some of the blackmail that the Deep State has on the Biden crime family.

"Leftists Create Database to DOX Trump Supporters, Fliers Threatening CIVIL WAR Found in Kansas" ... just like our sane buddy, John Brown, in 1858?  The voter registrations let us know where every Democrat lives ... einstatzgruppen will have an easy time.

"Putin Endorses Comrade Joe Biden, Praises Democrats For Communist Ideals" .. correct, Mr Putin.

"Harris, prominent Democrats listed as 'key contacts' for Biden family business venture projects" ... duh!

"Ghislaine Maxwell deposition transcripts for 2016 case released" ... nothing to see, she lied thru her teeth

"FBI confirms Iran responsible for wave of fake emails intended to intimidate voters" ... Dems doing the will of the Ayatollah
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 22, 2020, 05:15:49 PM
Stand down and cover your eyes (https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-postal-service-benches-its-police-officers-before-election-11602862096)

Quote
Frank Albergo, president of the Postal Police Officers Association, said the order to stand down, coming so close to the election, is especially concerning. “If I was going to undermine public trust in the mail, one of the first things I would do is pull postal police off the street,” he said.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 22, 2020, 08:05:36 PM
Quote
NYT: During the first two minutes each candidate speaks in each of the six 15-minute segments, his opponent’s microphone will be muted. After those initial statements in each segment, both mics will be turned on and are not expected to be cut off during the rest of the segment, even if one candidate keeps interrupting the other or eats up time talking.
Is this better than nothing? 4 minutes without interruption followed by an 11 minute free for all in each segment.  Trump is probably brushing up on his interruptions right now.  The news still can't resist the reality TV format.  I'm going to give myself 8 minutes for the debate.  I promise myself 8 minutes.  It could be longer.  I already voted so the debate doesn't help me.  I received a dvd from Netflix today with the first 4 episodes of Penny Dreadful, it's in the drive and ready to go.  I'm good, here.  So you guys don't have to worry about me.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 22, 2020, 08:30:04 PM
I expect another debacle, but I must watch as if it were a traffic fiasco.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 22, 2020, 08:35:07 PM
I'm not watching it.  I consider debates to be useful to get insight on the candidates before voting.  But since I've voted, then there's really no point to me watching it.

I have no doubt Trump will try to turn this one into another circus, and I have zero interest in that.  Let me know how it turns out, though.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 22, 2020, 09:02:12 PM
I expect another debacle, but I must watch as if it were a traffic fiasco.

You need counseling.  I won't watch any of them.

"Hunter Biden's Ex-Partner To Be Trump's Debate Guest As Senate Demands Hunter Turn Over Records" ... will he make the "eye see you" gesture at Joe?

"'Waste Of Time': NPR Refuses To Cover Biden Scandal" .. remove all public funding from NPR.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 23, 2020, 05:16:36 AM
It was availble here live in the wee hours. I haven't watched it. Afraid to look up or ask about it. How was it?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2020, 06:11:23 AM
It was availble here live in the wee hours. I haven't watched it. Afraid to look up or ask about it. How was it?

Reports say … better than before, election commission/moderator was less incompetent.  Common tropes of the last 4 years, older and newer were touched upon.  Both candidates did a fare amount of deflection.  Biden didn't collapse (which I am afraid of, there are horrible theories about).  In American terms I would call the experience of the last month "corned beef hash".  Who is the corned beef and who is the potatoes (the other ingredient) depends on your politics ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 23, 2020, 08:56:21 AM
It was availble here live in the wee hours. I haven't watched it. Afraid to look up or ask about it. How was it?
I watched about 25 min. of it, and most of that was to keep my wife company.  I find I get sick to my stomach watching tRUMP for more than a few min.  Orange kept his cool for the 'debate', but that just seemed to make the lies stand out more.  I think he actually will come out as worse today than yesterday.  All Biden had to do was not to lose, and he achieved that much anyway.  My wife braved the entire show, and feels the same way.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2020, 10:27:50 AM
I watched about 25 min. of it, and most of that was to keep my wife company.  I find I get sick to my stomach watching tRUMP for more than a few min.  Orange kept his cool for the 'debate', but that just seemed to make the lies stand out more.  I think he actually will come out as worse today than yesterday.  All Biden had to do was not to lose, and he achieved that much anyway.  My wife braved the entire show, and feels the same way.

All Hillary had to do, was not lose ... but she did.  Flip a coin Nov 3.

"“I thought Zhao Biden did great at the debate”- CCP" ... enjoy your bicycles, Mao jackets and Zhao's Little Blue Book
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 23, 2020, 12:55:32 PM
Republicans put up anti-trump billboards in NC (https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/election/article246590693.html)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2020, 01:08:01 PM
Republicans put up anti-trump billboards in NC (https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/election/article246590693.html)

Iran put out Proud Boy leaflets in Kansas
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 23, 2020, 01:42:42 PM
I was pleasantly surprised at the tone, but Trump was still his usual lying self. At least he didn't come off as a lounge act. I listed to it on KGO, and then listed to John Rothman and his callers talk about it for 2 1/2 hours. I may need an intervention...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 23, 2020, 03:17:04 PM
Hmm. So it was OK, as much as it can be.

But I'm not sure that 'the light tone' is good news from a different perspective. It means, he knows he could lose for real and while that's very good, it also means he is still acting out of 'character'. What is he capable of doing at a point he has nothing to lose after losing the elections? There is a huge difference between losing the first one and losing the second one, not to mention esp. in his position.

Because I hate to say it, but this is not going to end clean with Trump himself, am I wrong? Does it work that way? I wish it did. How many ways they have been trying to sue this man for the last 4 years? Democrats will try to reverse everything he did and they will jump the whole nine yards from international politics to his private life. And he's burned a lot of bridges too, somebody will have to pay the bill. Will republicans own up to him if he loses? To what end? Is he going to retire form politics? I don't know what to think about that but probably not. Maybe forced to?

Also people could start to talk when he steps down. Just what has been going with the staff the least would explode, imo. Then the officials. Who resigned in the last 4 years, when, why?  It feels like a period of 'Trump scandals' could start if he loses. I dunno. And it will radicalise politics and people more at both sides, deepen the adversity and invite more divisive policies. Sigh. oooff.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on October 23, 2020, 03:46:59 PM
  How any one with any common sense could vote for a corrupt career politician with dementia and a running mate who slept her way into office and is the "real" candidate baffles me. I kept waiting for willie brown to show up at one of their events, must have been paid off. Buy the way, people keep saying that trump is a liar, what specifically has he lied about?  TRUMP2020!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2020, 04:11:46 PM
Hmm. So it was OK, as much as it can be.

But I'm not sure that 'the light tone' is good news from a different perspective. It means, he knows he could lose for real and while that's very good, it also means he is still acting out of 'character'. What is he capable of doing at a point he has nothing to lose after losing the elections? There is a huge difference between losing the first one and losing the second one, not to mention esp. in his position.

Because I hate to say it, but this is not going to end clean with Trump himself, am I wrong? Does it work that way? I wish it did. How many ways they have been trying to sue this man for the last 4 years? Democrats will try to reverse everything he did and they will jump the whole nine yards from international politics to his private life. And he's burned a lot of bridges too, somebody will have to pay the bill. Will republicans own up to him if he loses? To what end? Is he going to retire form politics? I don't know what to think about that but probably not. Maybe forced to?

Also people could start to talk when he steps down. Just what has been going with the staff the least would explode, imo. Then the officials. Who resigned in the last 4 years, when, why?  It feels like a period of 'Trump scandals' could start if he loses. I dunno. And it will radicalise politics and people more at both sides, deepen the adversity and invite more divisive policies. Sigh. oooff.

Obama reversed everything George W did?  No?  That isn't how things work here.  Both parties are paid actors, paid by the same people.  TV news in particular is a form of Hollywood infotainment ... based on real life, but not real.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2020, 04:14:41 PM
  How any one with any common sense could vote for a corrupt career politician with dementia and a running mate who slept her way into office and is the "real" candidate baffles me. I kept waiting for willie brown to show up at one of their events, must have been paid off. Buy the way, people keep saying that trump is a liar, what specifically has he lied about?  TRUMP2020!

Welcome to the shark tank .. enjoy your swim ;-)  If I were voting, I would vote for Kanye West!  Hire a better entertainer for reboot of West Wing TV show ;-) ... Juliani can cameo as the TV ;-))

TDS is strong here, but there is at least one Trump supporter besides yourself.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2020, 04:16:31 PM
"Blockbuster Report Reveals How Biden Family Was Compromised By China" .. I thought Blockbuster was closed!

"San Francisco Tech CEO Emails 10 Million Customers Urging Them To Vote For Biden" ... use HAARP to induce earthquake now!

"Pennsylvania Supreme Court Rules Counties Can't Reject Mail-In Ballots When Signatures Don't Match" ... how can you get a signature from a dead person? ;-)

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 23, 2020, 04:16:47 PM
  How any one with any common sense could vote for a corrupt career politician with dementia and a running mate who slept her way into office and is the "real" candidate baffles me. I kept waiting for willie brown to show up at one of their events, must have been paid off. Buy the way, people keep saying that trump is a liar, what specifically has he lied about?  TRUMP2020!

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/78024408/oh-great-another-genius.jpg)

The list of lies runs too long to possible cover thoroughly, but here are a number of his lies on one topic that has been the bane of his political career: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/10/trumps-lies-about-coronavirus/608647/
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2020, 04:23:54 PM
We are all coyotes here ;-))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on October 23, 2020, 05:04:15 PM
 If you take any thing that the "atlantic" prints as non-biased,then you must also watch CNN & MSNBC all day. Think about it, not having the facts about this once in a lifetime unknown disease, and knowingly lying about it are two entirely different things. Unlike the media and the democrats,who tried everything they could to undermine our response and cause panic, and refusing to do anything to stop the rioting in their shit-hole cities is pathetic.I live in wash. state and the response by our democrat mayor and governor to all of this bullshit rioting and "peaceful" protesting is border line criminal.If the democrats ever get in power,we can kiss our freedom and our grandkids futures goodbye. TRUMP2020
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 23, 2020, 05:17:22 PM
If you take any thing that the "atlantic" prints as non-biased,then you must also watch CNN & MSNBC all day.
Where, pray tell, do you get your news from?  Probably something super non-biased and factual, given your dismissal of mainstream sources.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 23, 2020, 05:21:16 PM
Buy the way, people keep saying that trump is a liar, what specifically has he lied about?
For starters, he said that Obama founded ISIS (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/11/donald-trump-obama-founder-isis-most-valuable-player) (and tellingly, didn't back it up in any way)

Do you believe that?  Cause if you do, there's nothing you won't believe.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 23, 2020, 06:35:54 PM
How any one with any common sense could vote for a corrupt career politician with dementia and a running mate who slept her way into office and is the "real" candidate baffles me.
Biden is a career politician, no doubt about it, but the rest of your accusations sound like things that are only known to you.  Where did you get that information?  From Baruch?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 23, 2020, 06:37:20 PM
We should be getting all of our news from Newsmax? FOX News? How about One America News?

There isn't a grain of salt big enough...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on October 23, 2020, 06:51:25 PM
 Trump didn't say obama founded isis, he said that he allowed it to spread to other countries and did nothing to stop it. Do you remember what obama did after seeing the video of that american getting be-headed? He went to the golf course.His response was pathetic.Go back and look at what was happening while he was in CUBA doing the "wave" at a baseball game. Obama was and is still a coward.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 23, 2020, 07:54:45 PM
Trump didn't say obama founded isis
He literally said those exact words several times, even when given the softball of "well, you really meant that the Iraq troop withdrawal set the stage for ISIS to seize territory, right?"

Maybe he just thought of it as a "punchier" version of what he actually meant (baffling as to why his supporters say that 'he tells it like it is' when they so often have to tie themselves into knots with 'what he really meant was...')

Let's assume that one is just Trump being Trump and saying stuff he doesn't really mean.

Here's 19,999 more (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/07/13/president-trump-has-made-more-than-20000-false-or-misleading-claims/).  Get cracking.

Here's a good one: "Dems want to shut your churches down, permanently" (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/oct/08/donald-trump/trump-falsely-claims-democrats-want-shut-your-chur/)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 23, 2020, 07:59:19 PM
Well, I'll give you one thing, Bob. It's brave of you to come out as a Trump supporter here. You're not alone, but I hope you came prepared.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 23, 2020, 08:02:23 PM
I wonder how Trump's supporters will feel after he's been in the office for another four years.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 23, 2020, 08:19:08 PM
Well, I'll give you one thing, Bob. It's brave of you to come out as a Trump supporter here. You're not alone, but I hope you came prepared.
Could be brave.  Most likely too stupid to know the difference.  That is why he comes up with stupid stuff like--'what lies?'  Trump lies every time he speaks or twitters.  It has been documented.  But he simply does not care.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2020, 09:33:16 PM
I wonder how Trump's supporters will feel after he's been in the office for another four years.

Looking forward to Pence for 8 years ;-) ... you had to ask ... don't ask unless you like the answer
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2020, 09:35:35 PM
If you take any thing that the "atlantic" prints as non-biased,then you must also watch CNN & MSNBC all day. Think about it, not having the facts about this once in a lifetime unknown disease, and knowingly lying about it are two entirely different things. Unlike the media and the democrats,who tried everything they could to undermine our response and cause panic, and refusing to do anything to stop the rioting in their shit-hole cities is pathetic.I live in wash. state and the response by our democrat mayor and governor to all of this bullshit rioting and "peaceful" protesting is border line criminal.If the democrats ever get in power,we can kiss our freedom and our grandkids futures goodbye. TRUMP2020

I hear up in Seattle giant slugs get elected to office and get coding jobs at Microsoft ;-)

The "that is an unreliable news source" is a battle often waged here.  People fail to realize that confirmation bias works on anyone, not just the opponent side ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2020, 09:37:20 PM
He literally said those exact words several times, even when given the softball of "well, you really meant that the Iraq troop withdrawal set the stage for ISIS to seize territory, right?"

Maybe he just thought of it as a "punchier" version of what he actually meant (baffling as to why his supporters say that 'he tells it like it is' when they so often have to tie themselves into knots with 'what he really meant was...')

Let's assume that one is just Trump being Trump and saying stuff he doesn't really mean.

Here's 19,999 more (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/07/13/president-trump-has-made-more-than-20000-false-or-misleading-claims/).  Get cracking.

Here's a good one: "Dems want to shut your churches down, permanently" (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/oct/08/donald-trump/trump-falsely-claims-democrats-want-shut-your-chur/)

No, atheists want to shut down churches.  But that comes with the ideological territory.  Since I have a "personal" relationship, if there is an institution or not is less important to me than it is to a pastor ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 23, 2020, 10:48:26 PM
I wonder how Trump's supporters will feel after he's been in the office for another four years.

Same as they do now. They can't admit their leader is a clown. Plus, he gives them what they want. The bigoted rednecks couldn't have asked for a better President.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 24, 2020, 07:05:24 AM
Could be brave.  Most likely too stupid to know the difference.  That is why he comes up with stupid stuff like--'what lies?'  Trump lies every time he speaks or twitters.  It has been documented.  But he simply does not care.
This reminds me of a scene in Stargate SG1.  Stargate Command discloses the classified secret of the stargate to key ambassadors of four other global powers asking them to keep the secret, because SG1 needs their help to save the world.  The ambassadors get pissed because they had not been told of the secret before. The Chinese diplomat says, "I am afraid we will have to disclose this information to the Chinese people immediately, because our government does not keep secrets from it's people.  Everyone in the room turns and just looks at him silently with wide eyed but otherwise blank expressions.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 24, 2020, 07:13:12 AM
Think about it, not having the facts about this once in a lifetime unknown disease, and knowingly lying about it are two entirely different things.
Hey, easy now.  We are only trying to give Trump the benefit of the doubt by calling it a lie.  Otherwise we have to explain it with phrases like "incompetent know-it-all."  We work hard here to be as bipartisan as possible so please be polite.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 24, 2020, 09:05:50 AM
It's brave of you to come out as a Trump supporter here.
Remember when bravery used to actually mean something?  Putting yourself in harm's way to protect others, protesting injustice knowing there's going to be a brutal authoritarian response.  Now it's defending everyone's favorite Sharper Image steak connaisseur against critcism by denying reality from the comforts of home via the internet.  So brave.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on October 24, 2020, 09:58:05 AM
Trump: "nobody wants me", leaves event early (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/nobody-wants-me-trump-plays-sympathy-card-at-pennsylvania-rally-before-cutting-event-short-and-dancing-off-stage-to-ymca-b1200436.html)
And he's wrong as usual.  He has enough knuckledraggers out there that the election isn't the foregone conclusion that it should be.  For once, though, I agree with him in principle.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on October 24, 2020, 12:02:38 PM
  "America will NEVER become a socialist country"
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 24, 2020, 12:03:49 PM
This reminds me of a scene in Stargate SG1.  Stargate Command discloses the classified secret of the stargate to key ambassadors of four other global powers asking them to keep the secret, because SG1 needs their help to save the world.  The ambassadors get pissed because they had not been told of the secret before. The Chinese diplomat says, "I am afraid we will have to disclose this information to the Chinese people immediately, because our government does not keep secrets from it's people.  Everyone in the room turns and just looks at him silently with wide eyed but otherwise blank expressions.

China is master race!!  Are truth are inscrutibabble.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 24, 2020, 12:05:04 PM
Remember when bravery used to actually mean something?  Putting yourself in harm's way to protect others, protesting injustice knowing there's going to be a brutal authoritarian response.  Now it's defending everyone's favorite Sharper Image steak connaisseur against critcism by denying reality from the comforts of home via the internet.  So brave.

Protesting injustice freedom fighters like Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan and Charles Manson?  Those were the days my boys ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 24, 2020, 12:06:02 PM
  "America will NEVER become a socialist country"

Has been socialist since FDR ... please read a book sometime ;-))  All the Elites agree ... communism for me, fascism for you ;-(
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 24, 2020, 12:37:26 PM
  "America will NEVER become a socialist country"

Ah. So you're one of those gullible people who think Democrats have a secret socialist agenda. How original.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 24, 2020, 12:37:59 PM
  "America will NEVER become a socialist country"
I can't believe one guy is that stupid.  But we are and have been a country with many socialist programs.  And I seriously doubt you know what socialism is.  You only dislike it because your cult leader told you to.  It is clear you can't think so you need your orange monster (or one of his equally stupid minions) to 'think' for you.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 24, 2020, 12:57:21 PM
  "America will NEVER become a socialist country"
Serious question here: do you really think the DNC wants the USA to be a socialist country?

Follow up: can you accurately differentiate communism, socialism, and a capitalist state with social safety nets?  Take a guess as to which one American liberals typically advocate for.  It's an open book quiz, so you can ask a friend if it's too difficult.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 24, 2020, 01:21:35 PM
Ah. So you're one of those gullible people who think Democrats have a secret socialist agenda. How original.

Just more Russian propaganda, intended to create chaos. Seems to me there's enough of that already, but I guess there can never be enough for Putin and his crafty minions.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 24, 2020, 03:06:48 PM
I can't believe one guy is that stupid.  But we are and have been a country with many socialist programs.  And I seriously doubt you know what socialism is.  You only dislike it because your cult leader told you to.  It is clear you can't think so you need your orange monster (or one of his equally stupid minions) to 'think' for you.

I dislike communism because I hate atheist Jews with big beards who don't properly support their families because they think they are a famous thinker ;-)  Trump has nothing to do with it, he isn't Jewish, not atheist, and has no beard ;-))

It is reasonable to call anyone who supports the linking of corporations to state power ... a fascist.  Both US parties are fascists in that sense.  Lobbying brings that.  A party that would abolish corporations is communist.

"The leader of the 1917 Russian Bolshevik Revolution, Vladimir Lenin, once said, “The goal of socialism is communism.”" ... defang corporations then kill them.

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini

People who didn't implement fascism (Mussolini did) or implement communism (Lenin did) are posers.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 24, 2020, 03:10:55 PM
Serious question here: do you really think the DNC wants the USA to be a socialist country?

Follow up: can you accurately differentiate communism, socialism, and a capitalist state with social safety nets?  Take a guess as to which one American liberals typically advocate for.  It's an open book quiz, so you can ask a friend if it's too difficult.

The Elite want socialism aka the taxpayer supports the rich, and the Elite screw the taxpayers.  It is a form of asymmetrical predation by sociopaths.  The D/R duopoly do what the Elite tell them to, and the Deep State makes sure they do.

The more true this is, the closer you are to communism.  Why did Lenin support communism?  Because like Marx, he was a agitator writer who couldn't hold down an honest job.  This applies to Mussolini and Hitler too, but differently, in that they were originally agitator writers.  They supported Big Business and Big Government as a  partnership (see Krupps in Germany) ... they didn't call for Big Business to be abolished.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 24, 2020, 03:14:34 PM
Ah. So you're one of those gullible people who think Democrats have a secret socialist agenda. How original.

Not secret, a public thing since FDR/Truman/JFK/LBJ.  After the Boomer hippies took over they took a bad liberal thing and made it into even worse neo-liberal thing.  Got a social net?  Some do, but access is based on political pull and superficial victimhood status.  The greatest beneficiaries of socialism (see 2008) were the Elite.  Before that, the women benefited from Civil Rights far more than any Black did.  LBJ made literal war on the Black family.  The neo-liberals like Biden continue that war.  They treat criminals as necessary, and as controlled opposition (Black shirts).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 25, 2020, 02:06:49 PM
"In Bizarre Freudian Slip, Biden Brags About Assembling "Most Extensive Voter Fraud Organization In History"" ... butterfly net guys chasing Biden

"Taibbi: With Hunter Biden Expose, Suppression Is A Bigger Scandal Than The Actual Story" ... Nixon didn't get in trouble for the Plumbers, but for covering it up

"Biden Boosters Dox Nuns For The Sin Of Attending Trump Rally" ... Biden is a very lapsed Catholic, the current Pope is a communist, and Biden supporters are often atheists

Current Hunter Biden leaks apparently coming from Chinese enemies of the CCP, who see the Bidens as friends of the CCP.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on October 25, 2020, 04:43:53 PM
 It's kind of hard to take seriously what someone says when their "name or I.D" for any web-site is a cartoon character or anime. I think, and this is just my opinion, that the reason that they're so angry and try to make things personal,is because politics is their "new" religion. Conseratives want to be able to raise their families and be left the hell alone. This country needs less government,not more. You can't tell us how to vote,how to think,or how to raise our families. The democrats want to control every aspect of our lives. If you truly believe that a corrupt career politican like
 Biden, who is clearly not mentally fit to run the country is actually the one calling the shots, then there's there nothing much left to say, except to tell you to GROW UP. Stop playing video games, put down the damn phone for one day,and actually talk to other people.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mermaid on October 25, 2020, 04:48:38 PM
Conseratives want to be able to raise their families and be left the hell alone.
Same for liberals.
Quote
You can't tell us how to vote,how to think,or how to raise our families. The democrats want to control every aspect of our lives.

Same can be said for Republicans. We want to be able to marry who we want, to plan our families as we want, to follow the religion we want (or not) without having someone else's values forced upon us.

Quote
Stop playing video games, put down the damn phone for one day,and actually talk to other people.
I agree. We white people need to listen to minorities. Really listen. And don't make assumptions that the world works the same for them as it does for us.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 25, 2020, 05:21:55 PM
"Outrage After WaPo Says To 'Treat Biden Leaks As Foreign Intel Operation - Even If They Probably Aren't'" ... Amazon (including Bezos of WaPo) and Walmart are Chinese intel operations.  Does Putin control China too?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 25, 2020, 06:24:57 PM
It's kind of hard to take seriously what someone says when their "name or I.D" for any web-site is a cartoon character or anime. I think, and this is just my opinion, that the reason that they're so angry and try to make things personal,is because politics is their "new" religion. Conseratives want to be able to raise their families and be left the hell alone. This country needs less government,not more. You can't tell us how to vote,how to think,or how to raise our families. The democrats want to control every aspect of our lives. If you truly believe that a corrupt career politican like
 Biden, who is clearly not mentally fit to run the country is actually the one calling the shots, then there's there nothing much left to say, except to tell you to GROW UP. Stop playing video games, put down the damn phone for one day,and actually talk to other people.
Ah.....the brain dead speatheth.  As usual, doesn't make any sense. Yeah, I know conservatives (is your orange monster really a 'conservative'.......aww, why ask when clearly the brain dead don't know what a conservative is..) just want to live as they want to---and to tell everybody else how they will live.  That's all. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 25, 2020, 06:28:14 PM
It's kind of hard to take seriously what someone says when their "name or I.D" for any web-site is a cartoon character or anime.
(https://i.dlpng.com/static/png/1311101_thumb.png)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on October 25, 2020, 06:52:41 PM
We can do one better.

(https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/122745502_10221209635328039_3486461925010168642_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=U_kBtVCUMlYAX-HzatR&_nc_ht=scontent-bru2-1.xx&oh=07a961c95415aa985cab3edb30f16e35&oe=5FBCEE2D)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 25, 2020, 06:55:53 PM
My name is gibberish, so you know I'm telling the truth.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 25, 2020, 06:55:59 PM
We can do one better.

(https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/122745502_10221209635328039_3486461925010168642_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=U_kBtVCUMlYAX-HzatR&_nc_ht=scontent-bru2-1.xx&oh=07a961c95415aa985cab3edb30f16e35&oe=5FBCEE2D)
LOL.  I'm sure he would've listened and actually answered the hard questions if only my avatar were more respectable!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 25, 2020, 06:56:10 PM
I think, and this is just my opinion, that the reason that they're so angry and try to make things personal,is because politics is their "new" religion.
You mean like following a charismatic leader who can do no wrong, insisting that Pi = 3 because that's what their holy book says, and sometimes even advocating violence against nonbelievers?

Quote
Conseratives want to be able to raise their families and be left the hell alone.
Tell you what, when the Dems get power again, I'll vocally oppose any government law that infringes on reproductive rights, advocate for marijuana decriminalization, and push for immigration reform so the government doesn't "accidentally" separate parents and kids.

Live and let live, right?  Surely we agree on this, don't we?

Quote
This country needs less government,not more.
So, you're against increases in military spending?  Homeland Security?  ICE?  TSA?  Space Force?  Conservatives sure do hate government expansion, right?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on October 25, 2020, 07:07:25 PM
 I have absolutely no desire to tell any body else how to live their life.Being an angry democrat or liberal(they are one in the same) must be very mentally and physically exhausting. Concern yourself with your own "little" opinions ,stop trying to rationalize what AOC and the rest of the "nutbags" say is best for our country, and live your lives to your own best abilitys. I couldn't care less what any ones opinions are of me(except my families) and won' t lose any sleep over any thing any one else says. "Facts don't care about your feelings". Vote with your heads, not your emotions. TRUMP 2020!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 25, 2020, 09:17:35 PM
I have absolutely no desire to tell any body else how to live their life.
Clearly that is bullshit--just like your cult leader you seem to only be able to lie.  Your posts have been all about telling me what to believe and how to live.  If I had wanted any shit out of you I'd have simply squeezed your head.  Why not crawl back into your hole and concern yourself with fighting with your family. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 25, 2020, 11:11:54 PM
My name is gibberish, so you know I'm telling the truth.

That is bigoted against the "barbaric" tribes ... we don't know what they are saying, it sounds like bar-bar.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 25, 2020, 11:13:32 PM
I have absolutely no desire to tell any body else how to live their life.Being an angry democrat or liberal(they are one in the same) must be very mentally and physically exhausting. Concern yourself with your own "little" opinions ,stop trying to rationalize what AOC and the rest of the "nutbags" say is best for our country, and live your lives to your own best abilitys. I couldn't care less what any ones opinions are of me(except my families) and won' t lose any sleep over any thing any one else says. "Facts don't care about your feelings". Vote with your heads, not your emotions. TRUMP 2020!

Some people are concerned, if every little atom isn't in its proper place, such people convince themselves they are G-d ... which is ironic if they are atheists too ;-))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 25, 2020, 11:15:51 PM
"Putin Defends Bidens, Becomes 'Visibly Irritated' When Asked About $3.5 Million Moscow Payment To Hunter" ... would have been even funnier if Putin had been this public in 2016 about supporting Hillary (which he was), because Hillary would have had to spin her head around 360 to sell the idea that Trump worked for Putin ;-))

"The Elephant In The Room: Florida School Revokes Parking Privileges Of Student With Trump Display On Truck" ... Commie Dems will revoke all driving privileges, it is a bicycle for you, comrade!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 25, 2020, 11:51:00 PM
Trump to donors: "very tough" to keep the Senate, "I think we're gonna take back the House" (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/trump-gop-senate-debate-tough-election-2020-b1326156.html)

What a weird thing to say.  The Senate is more of a toss-up than the House.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 26, 2020, 01:13:48 PM
It's kind of hard to take seriously what someone says when their "name or I.D" for any web-site is a cartoon character or anime.

Hey, if you're too easily distracted by avatars and usernames to address the actual argument, that's on you.

Oops! I dropped my Pictures folder! Now every argument I make is invalid! Woe is me!

(https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fs3-ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com%2Fpsh-ex-ftnikkei-3937bb4%2Fimages%2F6%2F1%2F3%2F4%2F20764316-2-eng-GB%2FCropped-155786657620190514N%20Dragon%20Ball%20Broly_Data.jpg?source=nar-cms)

(https://attackofthefanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Sonic-Mania-Plus-Review-1.jpg)

(https://d2ofqe7l47306o.cloudfront.net/games/1920x1080/the-elder-scrolls-online-shadows-of-the-hist.jpg)

(https://cdn.europosters.eu/image/750/posters/my-hero-academia-i58328.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 26, 2020, 01:29:20 PM
Election map as of this morning:

(https://preview.redd.it/5qlr72a9ifv51.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=d101745ee6d3e4491bac9fa27c500306301ed4cc)

While it's not out of the question that Trump will win at least some of the toss-ups or close states like Texas, Ohio, and Georgia, he'd basically have to win them all to have a real shot at winning.  And while this race is far from over, it's looking much more favorable to Biden than it did just a couple months ago, especially in Pennsylvania (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/522718-biden-stretches-lead-over-trump-in-mich-wis-and-penn-poll) (Biden up by 5-10 points) and Biden currently has an 87% chance of winning the presidency on 538.

If Biden just holds what he's got, even if Trump wins in Ohio, Georgia, Texas, Florida, Arizona, and (this pains me to say it) North Carolina, Biden still edges out Trump.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on October 26, 2020, 02:09:22 PM
I saw a map that was all red today....but that was for coronavirus.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on October 26, 2020, 02:10:18 PM
Not gonna hold my breath, pessimistic about this election. It's in 2020, after all.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 26, 2020, 02:30:32 PM
A reminder from someone who has been apolitical, until this year, that Trump is, in fact, a criminal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d22Y7p3tER0&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 26, 2020, 02:35:42 PM
"Facts don't care about your feelings". Vote with your heads, not your emotions. TRUMP 2020!

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51h5RSd0wFL.__AC_SX342_QL70_ML2_.jpg)

Facts are meaningless without context. People don't vote on facts, they vote on emotions, specifically fear. Fear of outsiders, fear of losing autonomy, fear of losing resources, fear of the future. Political parties and politicians of every stripe provide the context by packaging facts into a narrative to elicit fear and gain power. "Here is the danger. We will save you." Trump's greatest talent is getting an emotional response from people, positive and negative. If you want Trump to win, you can best help him by triggering people's fears. For example, I received this flyer in the mail today:

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/690c2bc878bc59ab8cd28763b9245575/cc6ac70b08fa4727-4c/s1280x1920/4774abc29afd7891a90f47a583e1d9a800a8b0ba.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 26, 2020, 03:19:04 PM
@Blackleaf ... the Mayan reptile guy is neat!

Trumps are crooks.  Vote for Clinton crime family, vote for Biden crime family (most voters have no self awareness, like a dream where you are a naked Emperor and can't wake up).

"Joe Biden Forgets Trump's Name Again, Claims He Is Running Against "George Bush"" ... running for President of nursing home

""Lizard Brains": NBC Analyst Meacham Attacks Trump Supporters Functioning On Primitive Limbic Systems" ... look in mirror, rat man.

"...thus, it’s only natural for the Chinese government to try to oust Trump from the presidency with all available means, including providing financial support to his neoliberal Democratic rivals..." ... enemy of my enemy is my friend?  Traitors for free fentanyl.

"I guess you can make ends meet until a bunch of crackheads led by Hunter Biden break in like a pack of ghouls."" ... just say no to drug and sex and money abuse

"NPR Reports On Biden Assassination Plot, Omits That Mastermind Was Pro-Islam, Bernie Bro" ... Marx Akbar!

"BLM Invades Affluent Portland Suburb, Demand Allegiance From Shoppers And Diners" ... around here such people would be scalped, and not for tickets

"George Soros Targets Black And Latino Voters As Trump Gains Newfound Support" ... not an American.  Son and heir to the evil empire is married to Adam Schiff's daughter.

"FAR LEFTISTS ATTACK CHILDREN AT "JEWS FOR TRUMP RALLY" IN NEW YORK, NO BIDEN WILL NOT STOP THIS" ... time to start circumcising Gentiles at the neck level ;-(  Of course, Jews invented the Left, so it is ironic.  We invented "self hating" which is so characteristic of today's Zeitgeist.  Baruch Spinoza (my first avatar) invented modernity.  If he comes back to life, he will want his invention back, because the Gentiles have screwed it up.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 26, 2020, 04:15:20 PM
It's kind of hard to take seriously what someone says when their "name or I.D" for any web-site is a cartoon character or anime. I think, and this is just my opinion, that the reason that they're so angry and try to make things personal,is because politics is their "new" religion. Conseratives want to be able to raise their families and be left the hell alone. This country needs less government,not more. You can't tell us how to vote,how to think,or how to raise our families. The democrats want to control every aspect of our lives. If you truly believe that a corrupt career politican like
 Biden, who is clearly not mentally fit to run the country is actually the one calling the shots, then there's there nothing much left to say, except to tell you to GROW UP. Stop playing video games, put down the damn phone for one day,and actually talk to other people.

I have absolutely no desire to tell any body else how to live their life.Being an angry democrat or liberal(they are one in the same) must be very mentally and physically exhausting. Concern yourself with your own "little" opinions ,stop trying to rationalize what AOC and the rest of the "nutbags" say is best for our country, and live your lives to your own best abilitys. I couldn't care less what any ones opinions are of me(except my families) and won' t lose any sleep over any thing any one else says. "Facts don't care about your feelings". Vote with your heads, not your emotions. TRUMP 2020!

- You do not to know the meaning of the concept you are spinning your bullshit on (yeah, conservative doesn't mean what you think it does),
- claiming a group of people is 'trying to control all aspects' of another group's life in the most diverse country on the planet with a population of 325 million (What does that even mean?),
- then telling perfect strangers you just meet online how to think and live their lives in a passive agressive manner while calling them angry,
- believing/claiming that they are planing to do this via installing a socialist system where the economy runs on hardcore capitalism  dominating the global scale,
- after deliberatly coming out as Trumpster in a democrat leaning forum, claiming that you don't care about anybody's opinion, 
- talking about 'facts vs feelings' (Are you people allowed to use the word 'fact'? If he loses, he is going to listen to the scientists. Becareful,lol.)
- then talking about who is to be taken seriously or not according to forum avatars... oyy,lol. I really do not know what to say to this.

This is what you came up with by using your head and not emotions? You are really bad at projecting.   

Forget every bullshit you threw up there... I don't think you'll get this but you -actually your lot, because this is learned- are so stupid, you mistake apathy for anger. Worst mass projection ever. And you talk about the real world, going out talking to people...lol. These gaming, anime watching, 'cartoon' avatar millenials are going to eat your culture alive. You know that. Isn't that why you are a conservative?
 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 26, 2020, 04:27:44 PM
Not gonna hold my breath, pessimistic about this election. It's in 2020, after all.

Yeah, it feels that way a little. But I'm not pessimistic overall in general because of the protests and riots after Floyd's death. As I said before, it's alive! 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 26, 2020, 04:47:42 PM
Not gonna hold my breath, pessimistic about this election. It's in 2020, after all.
I look at it like this, you can only roll a one so many times before you roll a 5 or a 6.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 26, 2020, 05:55:27 PM
"Democrats are trying to stack the courts in their favor!" - Republicans as they rush to push a far right Republican into the Supreme Court, days before the election
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 26, 2020, 05:59:01 PM
BTW, Munch, don't think we don't notice you liking every right-leaning post in these forums. Liking a post claiming that cartoon avatars invalidate a person's arguments is quite strange coming from someone with an avatar that looks like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/pitAXCS.jpg)

Cartoon orc = your opinion is invalid
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 26, 2020, 06:28:00 PM
"Democrats are trying to stack the courts in their favor!" - Republicans as they rush to push a far right Republican into the Supreme Court, days before the election
Technically, as people are voting.  And voting to decide the guy who appoints the Supreme Court justices, no less.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on October 26, 2020, 06:55:24 PM
 Jesus christ, uh, I mean hail satan, people on this thread take way to much of this stuff personally. This really is your religion now isn't it? The election is a week from now. All of this screaming and kicking will hopefully be over and people can be civil to each other again. I guess what I read is true, most atheists are liberals ,but I didn't expect this much name-calling and temper tantrums. I might be the only one on this web-site that feels this way, but that's okay. As I've gotten older, my feelings on religion and politics have changed to rely on my self and my family more and less on  outside factors. I probably would have to define my self as a "satanist" now. I truly COULD NOT CARE LESS what any bodies opinion is a me. This country is fractured and needs to be repaired. I don't see any of the democrats offering any thing but venom and hatred of the opposition,and nothing short of revolution is good enough. I'm too old to care what other people think. I  do however think a lot of people on this site need to grow-up and get over your selves. HAIL SATAN.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 26, 2020, 06:57:19 PM
Jesus christ, uh, I mean hail satan, people on this thread take way to much of this stuff personally. This really is your religion now isn't it? The election is a week from now. All of this screaming and kicking will hopefully be over and people can be civil to each other again. I guess what I read is true, most atheists are liberals ,but I didn't expect this much name-calling and temper tantrums. I might be the only one on this web-site that feels this way, but that's okay. As I've gotten older, my feelings on religion and politics have changed to rely on my self and my family more and less on  outside factors. I probably would have to define my self as a "satanist" now. I truly COULD NOT CARE LESS what any bodies opinion is a me. This country is fractured and needs to be repaired. I don't see any of the democrats offering any thing but venom and hatred of the opposition,and nothing short of revolution is good enough. I'm too old to care what other people think. I  do however think a lot of people on this site need to grow-up and get over your selves. HAIL SATAN.

Do you have anything to offer in the way of...I dunno...arguments? Facts? Data? No? Just projection and ad hominem fallacies? Okay.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 26, 2020, 07:35:52 PM
"Democrats are trying to stack the courts in their favor!" - Republicans as they rush to push a far right Republican into the Supreme Court, days before the election
Plus tRump has installed about 200 repub/trumpies to the bench already.  And now that he has stripped the civil service of using merit to choose workers, trumpies now will be installed at every turn and in every bureau. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 26, 2020, 08:05:42 PM
"Democrats are trying to stack the courts in their favor!" - Republicans as they rush to push a far right Republican into the Supreme Court, days before the election

Every judge at every level.  Part of politics.  Law isn't neutral, it is partisan.  It can be blind, in a bad way.  So much for equality under law, or professional ethics.  Help your friends, screw your enemies, is the old old way.  Indicative is that most politicians have a law school background ;-(
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 26, 2020, 08:06:47 PM
Jesus christ, uh, I mean hail satan, people on this thread take way to much of this stuff personally. This really is your religion now isn't it? The election is a week from now. All of this screaming and kicking will hopefully be over and people can be civil to each other again. I guess what I read is true, most atheists are liberals ,but I didn't expect this much name-calling and temper tantrums. I might be the only one on this web-site that feels this way, but that's okay. As I've gotten older, my feelings on religion and politics have changed to rely on my self and my family more and less on  outside factors. I probably would have to define my self as a "satanist" now. I truly COULD NOT CARE LESS what any bodies opinion is a me. This country is fractured and needs to be repaired. I don't see any of the democrats offering any thing but venom and hatred of the opposition,and nothing short of revolution is good enough. I'm too old to care what other people think. I  do however think a lot of people on this site need to grow-up and get over your selves. HAIL SATAN.

Usually politics is taken personally, unfortunately.  People are too hot ... pssst ... about it.  Fortunately other topics draw less fire.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 26, 2020, 08:07:42 PM
Do you have anything to offer in the way of...I dunno...arguments? Facts? Data? No? Just projection and ad hominem fallacies? Okay.

Karl Marx is god, meth is an aphrodisiac (per Hunter Biden)?

Even if Munch didn't like any of my posts, I would still respect him (given the many posts of his I have read).  A really decent guy.  In the political arena, few here are even human.  Even though he is British and gay, that is no reason to expect he will support all those Californicating political ideas.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 26, 2020, 08:14:03 PM
Plus tRump has installed about 200 repub/trumpies to the bench already.  And now that he has stripped the civil service of using merit to choose workers, trumpies now will be installed at every turn and in every bureau.

Civil service was instituted because President Garfield got assassinated interviewing a job candidate.  As it is, nearly 5000 positions, some just sugar coating jobs, are exchanged every change of party in the WH.  One of the most political are plum ambassador jobs for wealthy couples.  The other system is the "spoils system", which became too hard to handle as the Federal government became much larger because of the Civil War.  Political job applicants were swarming Lincoln's house in Springfield IL, after the election, but before he was inaugurated.

"Recorded Biden Operatives Begging Him To Stay Quiet, Set To Release Tues" ... deaf ornery old men don't cooperate

""I Was Born For That": Hillary Clinton Still Salty 4 Years Later" ... still wants her coronation as Evil Queen
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 26, 2020, 09:58:43 PM
This country is fractured and needs to be repaired.

I agree but I'm not sure how we get there. America's response to this pandemic has been very discouraging. Often in the past Americans banded together when faced with a threat or disaster but that didn't happen this time. I wish Trump or Congress could be blamed but what is going on in America right now is deep, systemic, sociological, and psychological. This alienation and animosity are multifactorial and can't be fixed simply by electing a new president. That said, Trump has demonstrated no ability to build bridges or de-escalate conflicting factions.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 27, 2020, 05:25:03 AM
Respect doesn't work that way, Baruch. It is not some sort of an etherial subtsance that naturally accumulates around people who are generally defined as 'decent' according to some norms in a given society but some people refuse just to spite. You are confusing the regard we are all required to show each other to exist in peace; to achieve basic tenets of civilisation with the respect which is based on some sort of admiration for some ability, quality or accomplishment. We don't live in the same building. We have come here to express our opinions and find people who think like us.

Nobody disrespects a member in this forum because of their life style, sexual orientation, nationality OR for their political conviction as long as they can build an argument for it. We have/had every kind of people here. Hell, we had a self proclaimed pedophile, a dog fucker in this forum and they've all lasted very long but left or banned because they kept bringing those issues at every opportunity which majorty see as taboos. Not to mention it is illegal. And many other ordinary kind of crackpots, we all are in that category in some way.

This man or that woman, nelson mandela or gandhi...if somebody gets into a political thread and claim that Democrats are trying to build a socialist America, nobody with two brain cells to rub together will respect them. I'm not throwing my hair and saying 'hmph, I don't!', I'm saying, I can't. Because it is absurd. Because we need a modicum of rationality to interact. I can't respect anti-vaxers. I can't respect anyone who claims there is no systematic racism and white supremacism anywhere around the world. I can't respect flat earthers. I can't respect people who think vampires and zombies can exist, because you know 'we don't really know after all'. I can't respect people who decide their lives according to horoscopes, tarot cards, angel quantum something, self-help, sending energy to the universe. Do you think they are not decent people?

But while there is a camp with its entire existance in the country's history as a political wing based on principles like telling women what to do with their bodies, telling people what kind of tv shows they should make and watch or wihich ones they should cancel, what kind of music they should listen, who they should love and marry, how many children they should have, systematically killing people out of their ethnic and religous groups (mostly because they cover their heads though, they can't tell the difference between a sikh and a muslim or a turban and a burkha), esp. immigrants IN the BIGGEST IMMIGRANT COUNTRY ON EARTH and we have these fucking morons dropping one after another telling people that they're angry snowflakes and all they do is throwing tantrums all around. These are just a few examples. Republicans didn't need Trump to begin with anyway.

'Thisz ccountry isz fracturrred.' No shit. It wasn't fractured 20 years ago? 30 years ago? 50 years ago? All this dropped down from sky just like that? Which political wing and ideologies have to rely on devisive policies and fractures? Which fucking moron has carried this to a new dimension, abused almost every issue the country and the world has using a 12 year old's vernacular with a retarded, psychopathic demeanor?
 
Munch or before pr... Think about their lives and circumstances. In a mass scale, the worst absurd comedy of all times. The American muslim kid who dropped several weeks ago? The same kind of moronity.

Yeah, respect doesn't work that way.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 27, 2020, 08:58:01 AM
Jesus christ, uh, I mean hail satan, people on this thread take way to much of this stuff personally. This really is your religion now isn't it? The election is a week from now. All of this screaming and kicking will hopefully be over and people can be civil to each other again. I guess what I read is true, most atheists are liberals ,but I didn't expect this much name-calling and temper tantrums. I might be the only one on this web-site that feels this way, but that's okay. As I've gotten older, my feelings on religion and politics have changed to rely on my self and my family more and less on  outside factors. I probably would have to define my self as a "satanist" now. I truly COULD NOT CARE LESS what any bodies opinion is a me. This country is fractured and needs to be repaired. I don't see any of the democrats offering any thing but venom and hatred of the opposition,and nothing short of revolution is good enough. I'm too old to care what other people think. I  do however think a lot of people on this site need to grow-up and get over your selves. HAIL SATAN.
Project much?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 27, 2020, 11:02:02 AM
I agree but I'm not sure how we get there. America's response to this pandemic has been very discouraging. Often in the past Americans banded together when faced with a threat or disaster but that didn't happen this time. I wish Trump or Congress could be blamed but what is going on in America right now is deep, systemic, sociological, and psychological. This alienation and animosity are multifactorial and can't be fixed simply by electing a new president. That said, Trump has demonstrated no ability to build bridges or de-escalate conflicting factions.

How can we fix this, as long as Democrats exist, as long as Republicans exist?  Y'all are struggling for power and wealth, usually ill got.  How to bridge two competing crime families?  Thompson machine guns out of the window of a Packard touring car.  There is no Chicago Kirk from Star Fleet to make us cool it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 27, 2020, 11:04:12 AM
Respect doesn't work that way, Baruch. It is not some sort of an etherial subtsance that naturally accumulates around people who are generally defined as 'decent' according to some norms in a given society but some people refuse just to spite. You are confusing the regard we are all required to show each other to exist in peace; to achieve basic tenets of civilisation with the respect which is based on some sort of admiration for some ability, quality or accomplishment. We don't live in the same building. We have come here to express our opinions and find people who think like us.

Nobody disrespects a member in this forum because of their life style, sexual orientation, nationality OR for their political conviction as long as they can build an argument for it. We have/had every kind of people here. Hell, we had a self proclaimed pedophile, a dog fucker in this forum and they've all lasted very long but left or banned because they kept bringing those issues at every opportunity which majorty see as taboos. Not to mention it is illegal. And many other ordinary kind of crackpots, we all are in that category in some way.

This man or that woman, nelson mandela or gandhi...if somebody gets into a political thread and claim that Democrats are trying to build a socialist America, nobody with two brain cells to rub together will respect them. I'm not throwing my hair and saying 'hmph, I don't!', I'm saying, I can't. Because it is absurd. Because we need a modicum of rationality to interact. I can't respect anti-vaxers. I can't respect anyone who claims there is no systematic racism and white supremacism anywhere around the world. I can't respect flat earthers. I can't respect people who think vampires and zombies can exist, because you know 'we don't really know after all'. I can't respect people who decide their lives according to horoscopes, tarot cards, angel quantum something, self-help, sending energy to the universe. Do you think they are not decent people?

But while there is a camp with its entire existance in the country's history as a political wing based on principles like telling women what to do with their bodies, telling people what kind of tv shows they should make and watch or wihich ones they should cancel, what kind of music they should listen, who they should love and marry, how many children they should have, systematically killing people out of their ethnic and religous groups (mostly because they cover their heads though, they can't tell the difference between a sikh and a muslim or a turban and a burkha), esp. immigrants IN the BIGGEST IMMIGRANT COUNTRY ON EARTH and we have these fucking morons dropping one after another telling people that they're angry snowflakes and all they do is throwing tantrums all around. These are just a few examples. Republicans didn't need Trump to begin with anyway.

'Thisz ccountry isz fracturrred.' No shit. It wasn't fractured 20 years ago? 30 years ago? 50 years ago? All this dropped down from sky just like that? Which political wing and ideologies have to rely on devisive policies and fractures? Which fucking moron has carried this to a new dimension, abused almost every issue the country and the world has using a 12 year old's vernacular with a retarded, psychopathic demeanor?
 
Munch or before pr... Think about their lives and circumstances. In a mass scale, the worst absurd comedy of all times. The American muslim kid who dropped several weeks ago? The same kind of moronity.

Yeah, respect doesn't work that way.

Deconstructing Gramsci and Trotsky is ... burning.  Sorry.  You are the only person (per semiotics) who knows what a word means?  Per Humpty Dumpty ...

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less." "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."

George Orwell didn't invent anything that Lewis Carroll didn't think of first.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 27, 2020, 11:51:41 AM
George Orwell didn't invent anything that Lewis Carroll didn't think of first.

Wrong Lewis. George Orwell didn't invent anything. He wrote brilliant fiction on what should be righfully creditted to Lewis Mumford; his critique of both ideologies at the time which he understood and agreed. Mumford has been exiled a couple of times, at least. They hated what he was saying. Except a very few smart men.   

There is a good book on his work related to his personal life, his influence as one of the 5 sociologists from the same generation, all of them born in 1895, but I can't remember the book's name. Something printed in the late 90s. Mumford is a man who saw and talked about the cold war period in early 1930s as far as I get. If memory serves right, they become friends with Orwell for 4-5 years ? and then seperate around when the war breaks out and never see each other again. Then Orwell dies a short time later. He died very young.     
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 27, 2020, 12:08:06 PM
I agree but I'm not sure how we get there. America's response to this pandemic has been very discouraging. Often in the past Americans banded together when faced with a threat or disaster but that didn't happen this time. I wish Trump or Congress could be blamed but what is going on in America right now is deep, systemic, sociological, and psychological. This alienation and animosity are multifactorial and can't be fixed simply by electing a new president. That said, Trump has demonstrated no ability to build bridges or de-escalate conflicting factions.

In your false memory.  Remember Korea, Vietnam, race riots?  Maybe among White college graduates that like the same recreational drugs, they all have the same group think.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 27, 2020, 12:35:58 PM
In your false memory.  Remember Korea, Vietnam, race riots?  Maybe among White college graduates that like the same recreational drugs, they all have the same group think.

1) I never said what we are experiencing is unprecedented. I didn't say Americans always pulled together. I said we haven't pulled together during the pandemic and the problems we are currently experiencing aren't the result of one factor.

2) I don't know how to fix America's problems.

3) I don't drink alcohol and I've never used recreational drugs.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 27, 2020, 12:37:24 PM
Wrong Lewis. George Orwell didn't invent anything. He wrote brilliant fiction on what should be righfully creditted to Lewis Mumford; his critique of both ideologies at the time which he understood and agreed. Mumford has been exiled a couple of times, at least. They hated what he was saying. Except a very few smart men.   

There is a good book on his work related to his personal life, his influence as one of the 5 sociologists from the same generation, all of them born in 1895, but I can't remember the book's name. Something printed in the late 90s. Mumford is a man who saw and talked about the cold war period in early 1930s as far as I get. If memory serves right, they become friends with Orwell for 4-5 years ? and then seperate around when the war breaks out and never see each other again. Then Orwell dies a short time later. He died very young.   

Lewis Carroll lived decades before Lewis Mumford.  So what inverted Derrida leads to concluding Lewis Carroll is dependent on Lewis Mumford ;-)  Yes, George Orwell was contemporary with Lewis Mumford.  Mumford influenced a lot of people, though George Orwell isn't directly mentioned in Wiki.  Both were progenitors of neo-liberalism.  Thanks for sharing this, I now have another mid-20th century ideological monument to learn more about ;-)

I almost never drink, but I will down a few next week.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 27, 2020, 01:55:58 PM
Lewis Carroll lived decades before Lewis Mumford.


And? You think this works like first born, first served?

Quote
Mumford influenced a lot of people, though George Orwell isn't directly mentioned in Wiki.  Both were progenitors of neo-liberalism.

Yes, he is not mentioned in wiki. This is an assumption made by a researcher. A reasonable one made by tracking Mumford's work back/around to their encounter. There isn't anyone else and we know they've met. If you read about their lives you'd get the climate and their situation. It is pretty depressing. It seems Mumford had had a bad life. He's been pushed out from everywhere, exiled, his work edited all over, they worked behind of his back not to publish anything he wrote...etc. But you need to read about a few people from the same generation to get that. Stop sticking an -ism on him.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 27, 2020, 03:15:47 PM
Wiki has a huge article on Orwell though the one on Mumford is considerable.  I guess Orwell was even more influential on "letters" in the 20th century.  If this influence can be shown, it should be added to the article.

---

"Hunter Biden Confesses Partnership With China 'Spy Chief' -- Fumes After He And Joe Named As Criminal Witnesses" ... best not to lie when under oath, they may actually punish that

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on October 27, 2020, 05:10:29 PM
 Like I said, this has become a religion for some people. Respect other people's opinions and live your life to the best ability that you can. I came to this web-site (atheist forum) to be able to talk to others about our common beliefs (or un-beliefs). Any one that gets that angry about any thing and makes things personal or becomes un-hinged about their political leanings should take a breath and remember, we're ALL just pee-ons in this world. In the grand scheme of things, we all just live to die. And we will all die alone.  We're all insignificate.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 27, 2020, 05:31:41 PM
Any one that gets that angry about any thing and makes things personal or becomes un-hinged about their political leanings should take a breath
I agree.  Does this apply to you too, or are you exempt?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 27, 2020, 06:17:36 PM
Like I said, this has become a religion for some people. Respect other people's opinions and live your life to the best ability that you can. I came to this web-site (atheist forum) to be able to talk to others about our common beliefs (or un-beliefs). Any one that gets that angry about any thing and makes things personal or becomes un-hinged about their political leanings should take a breath and remember, we're ALL just pee-ons in this world. In the grand scheme of things, we all just live to die. And we will all die alone.  We're all insignificate.

Common no-religion beliefs are cool.  Other beliefs not so cool.  I hope you are making progress on your reconciliation of what you now believe.

I agree that anger is silly, that taking entertainment (and politics is like sport for most people, we are non-participating fans) too seriously is sad.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 27, 2020, 06:22:26 PM
Like I said, this has become a religion for some people. Respect other people's opinions and live your life to the best ability that you can. I came to this web-site (atheist forum) to be able to talk to others about our common beliefs (or un-beliefs). Any one that gets that angry about any thing and makes things personal or becomes un-hinged about their political leanings should take a breath and remember, we're ALL just pee-ons in this world. In the grand scheme of things, we all just live to die. And we will all die alone.  We're all insignificate.
Good advice--why don't you try living it. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 27, 2020, 08:29:57 PM
Like I said, this has become a religion for some people. Respect other people's opinions and live your life to the best ability that you can. I came to this web-site (atheist forum) to be able to talk to others about our common beliefs (or un-beliefs). Any one that gets that angry about any thing and makes things personal or becomes un-hinged about their political leanings should take a breath and remember, we're ALL just pee-ons in this world. In the grand scheme of things, we all just live to die. And we will all die alone.  We're all insignificate.

I'm not angry. I just think you have bad arguments. Or more accurately, bad excuses for not even trying to give any arguments. At least, I think you do. You don't an avatar, so I don't know how seriously I can take you.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 28, 2020, 03:40:09 AM
I'm not angry. I just think you have bad arguments. Or more accurately, bad excuses for not even trying to give any arguments. At least, I think you do. You don't an avatar, so I don't know how seriously I can take you.

Good arguments, like how Trump is Putin's lover?

"President Trump's Campaign Website Was Just Hacked" ... most executives won't pay real money for real IT security ;-(
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 28, 2020, 04:22:07 AM
I'm not angry. I just think you have bad arguments. Or more accurately, bad excuses for not even trying to give any arguments.
I think he has a hard time understanding who's angry.  There maybe some people in the forum who are actually angry, because he came in with a metaphorical baseball bat ranting on how vile liberals are.  It's like he's exercising his right to be completely uncivil to a group he expresses hatred toward and expects people to applaud his keen insight.  His problem may just be with his socialization skills.  Being told he's acting like a jerk, doesn't necessarily mean people are angry at him, and since this made him angry, maybe he's the one who needs to chill out.





Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 28, 2020, 08:57:35 AM
I think he has a hard time understanding who's angry.  There maybe some people in the forum who are actually angry, because he came in with a metaphorical baseball bat ranting on how vile liberals are.  It's like he's exercising his right to be completely uncivil to a group he expresses hatred toward and expects people to applaud his keen insight.  His problem may just be with his socialization skills.  Being told he's acting like a jerk, doesn't necessarily mean people are angry at him, and since this made him angry, maybe he's the one who needs to chill out.
Exactly.
And if what he says is true about his relationship with his family, he seems to make it a habit of pissing off those around him, as well.  He seems to like to piss people off--it's his nature.  Maybe he should just stick to listening to his death metal stuff and leave the rest of the world alone.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on October 28, 2020, 11:28:32 AM
Say good bye to the economy for a while. Huge Layoffs, Covid-19 Europe shutdown, US record virus new cases, no stimulus S&P down about 5% in 2 days...I may buy some more. Not good for incumbents a week out.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 28, 2020, 11:34:14 AM
Say good bye to the economy for a while. Huge Layoffs, Covid-19 Europe shutdown, US record virus new cases, no stimulus S&P down about 5% in 2 days...I may buy some more. Not good for incumbents a week out.

We should have had mandatory retirement of all incumbents after 12 years in office, 8 years for President.  Two terms max, unless in the House (max six terms).  Our politicians are entitled Caligulas.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 28, 2020, 01:15:48 PM
Say good bye to the economy for a while. Huge Layoffs, Covid-19 Europe shutdown, US record virus new cases, no stimulus S&P down about 5% in 2 days...I may buy some more. Not good for incumbents a week out.
My parents say it's going to be a mess for most of next year as well.  Not good whoever takes office, either.  Lots of messes big and small to clean up - and people have a bad habit of blaming the stench on the nearest person, not necessarily the offender.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 28, 2020, 02:28:43 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHP3EFvD8i4
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 28, 2020, 03:40:02 PM
"Fun" fact about those rape allegations: Trump tried to get the Justice Dept to legally defend him (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/27/nyregion/jean-carroll-trump-rape-lawsuit.html) (basically subsidizing his own legal defense and shielding him from legal liability).  The State Department apparently cited a law designed to protect federal employees against litigation stemming from the performance of their duties.  How the judge resisted bludgeoning the Trump lackey to death with a law book, I'll never understand.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 28, 2020, 04:49:34 PM
"Fun" fact about those rape allegations: Trump tried to get the Justice Dept to legally defend him (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/27/nyregion/jean-carroll-trump-rape-lawsuit.html) (basically subsidizing his own legal defense and shielding him from legal liability).  The State Department apparently cited a law to designed to protect federal employees against litigation stemming from the performance of their duties.  How the judge resisted bludgeoning the Trump lackey to death with a law book, I'll never understand.

Every male is a rapist.  Not just Bill or Joe.  This is why women want to castrate all of us men ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on October 28, 2020, 06:17:52 PM
 Wow,great grammar there. For those who judge someone's arguments by the quality of an avatar that they don't use, sarcasm or not, that's sad. I'm too old to get angry or lose any sleep over what other people say in this thread. Get rid of your  anger in some other way, because I think if you keep it  up like this after the election is over, you might end-up alone and bitter. I will continue to listen to black-metal and spend time with our grandkids. That makes me smile, not arguing politics on an atheist web-site. Get off my lawn!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on October 28, 2020, 06:22:48 PM
Trump left his mobs to fend for themselves. Omaha Beach on D-Day, II.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 28, 2020, 06:38:19 PM
Trump left his mobs to fend for themselves. Omaha Beach on D-Day, II.

The Dems are anti-American.  They are the Germans at Omaha Beach.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 28, 2020, 06:41:42 PM
Homeland Security official Miles Taylor published an opinion piece and a book over a year ago critical of Trump, but he did so anonymously because he wanted to limit Trump to a defense of the accusations, rather than letting Trump turn the issue into an Ad Hominem attack on Taylor.  Many presidents would use the fallacy, but with Trump it would be a forgone conclusion. Trump's team tried to find out where the attack came from, but were unable to find out who it was, until this week when Taylor took credit for his works.

Whether this was the correct approach or not, I have to admit I enjoyed the idea of frustrating Trump just because he's Trump.  But the point of this post is little more than an opportunity to post a quote from Taylor's writing that most closely describes the way I saw Trump doing his job from outside of Washington.  Taylor described Mr. Trump as a

Quote
“12-year-old in an air traffic control tower, pushing the buttons of government indiscriminately, indifferent to the planes skidding across the runway.”
 
That could have been a political cartoon on the front page of the Times, but it was done in writing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/28/us/politics/miles-taylor-anonymous-trump.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20201028&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=129705843&segment_id=42633&user_id=33a2a6e6868fd65c48b0f219d16ed7c2
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 28, 2020, 06:43:54 PM
The government has many levels and many factions.  It can't speak with one voice.  Do right or do wrong, criticism will come every day.  The average human doesn't know right from wrong anyway.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 28, 2020, 06:47:24 PM
I'm too old to get angry or lose any sleep over what other people say in this thread. Get rid of your  anger in some other way.
Still projecting.   Also, you're boring.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 28, 2020, 06:48:53 PM
Still projecting.   Also, you're boring.

I need to give him lessons.  You aren't teaching him, just berating him.  Not a good teacher at all.

"In some states we will have final results almost immediately, but in other states counting could take quite a few weeks..." ... just like the 19th century
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 28, 2020, 07:09:25 PM
I will continue to listen to black-metal and spend time with our grandkids. That makes me smile, not arguing politics on an atheist web-site.
So don't.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 28, 2020, 07:21:43 PM
Wow,great grammar there. For those who judge someone's arguments by the quality of an avatar that they don't use, sarcasm or not, that's sad. I'm too old to get angry or lose any sleep over what other people say in this thread. Get rid of your  anger in some other way, because I think if you keep it  up like this after the election is over, you might end-up alone and bitter. I will continue to listen to black-metal and spend time with our grandkids. That makes me smile, not arguing politics on an atheist web-site. Get off my lawn!
Project much?!  You are the angry one.  And you are on our lawn, not yours.  Why are you on this site?  You only make pronouncements--nothing close to a discussion or dialogue.  Why are you so hung up on avatar's?  Seems you are frightened of them.  You write like a 16 year old with problems that needs a shrink.  You will probably not advance much more than that--16.  What a weak-kneed dolt you are. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on October 28, 2020, 07:32:12 PM
Walter Mondale’s 1984 concession to Ronald Reagan: “The choice was made peacefully. And although I would have rather won tonight, we rejoice in our democracy. We rejoice in the freedom of a wonderful people. And we accept their verdict.”
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on October 28, 2020, 09:43:06 PM
So in one week, about half the country will be bitterly disappointed that "evil" won.  Yes, both sides have a significant portion that sees the other side as actually evil.  There will be a big public meltdown by that side.  And that side will blame 3rd party voters like me for their loss.

That will happen no matter which side wins.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 28, 2020, 10:01:48 PM
Walter Mondale’s 1984 concession to Ronald Reagan: “The choice was made peacefully. And although I would have rather won tonight, we rejoice in our democracy. We rejoice in the freedom of a wonderful people. And we accept their verdict.”

That happened in a parallel universe, not this one.  Didn't happen in 1860.  Dems worst losers of all time.  They liked 1865 even less.  Dems both N and S sucked and still do.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 28, 2020, 10:04:11 PM
So in one week, about half the country will be bitterly disappointed that "evil" won.  Yes, both sides have a significant portion that sees the other side as actually evil.  There will be a big public meltdown by that side.  And that side will blame 3rd party voters like me for their loss.

That will happen no matter which side wins.

The verdict of history is always right.  Both views are correct, "Americans are evil" - King George III

No, they won't blame you, they will blame Putin not Xi.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 28, 2020, 10:08:19 PM
So in one week, about half the country will be bitterly disappointed that "evil" won.  Yes, both sides have a significant portion that sees the other side as actually evil.  There will be a big public meltdown by that side.  And that side will blame 3rd party voters like me for their loss.

That will happen no matter which side wins.

I'm hoping there won't be violence. No matter who wins, it would be the perfect time for Russia, China, or another country hostile to the US to detonate a bomb or some other terrorist attack on US soil and not claim responsibility for it. One of Trump's hotels would be the perfect target. It would be complete chaos.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 28, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
I hope the Chinese invade ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 28, 2020, 10:31:03 PM
So in one week, about half the country will be bitterly disappointed that "evil" won.  Yes, both sides have a significant portion that sees the other side as actually evil.  There will be a big public meltdown by that side.  And that side will blame 3rd party voters like me for their loss.

That will happen no matter which side wins.

Maybe America will elect Kanye West...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 28, 2020, 11:28:28 PM
Wow,great grammar there. For those who judge someone's arguments by the quality of an avatar that they don't use, sarcasm or not, that's sad. I'm too old to get angry or lose any sleep over what other people say in this thread. Get rid of your  anger in some other way, because I think if you keep it  up like this after the election is over, you might end-up alone and bitter. I will continue to listen to black-metal and spend time with our grandkids. That makes me smile, not arguing politics on an atheist web-site. Get off my lawn!

Umm... Did you forget how the Quote button works, buddy? No idea what grammar you're taking issue with. Also, you're committing another ad hominem fallacy. If you're not going to engage, just don't post.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 29, 2020, 05:48:03 AM
So in one week, about half the country will be bitterly disappointed that "evil" won.  Yes, both sides have a significant portion that sees the other side as actually evil.  There will be a big public meltdown by that side.  And that side will blame 3rd party voters like me for their loss.

That will happen no matter which side wins.
That's right.  Half the country will be sad no matter who wins. But what helps me is looking at the other half of the half empty glass.  Half the country will be dancing joyfully, and even though that half works against my best interests, they are Americans and my countrymen even if we disagree.  It's good to know that others are rejoicing even if I don't participate in the gladness (or the sorrow).  But unfortunately, there is something bigger at stake than winning or losing.

As for voting 3rd party, that is an option that I will defend.  I voted against Trump this year, which is not a lot different from voting 3rd party, because whoever wins produces little or nothing that is positive.  But one thing I will say for most Democratic candidates is they make very good concession speeches.  Remember Al Gore?  His concession speech was the most heart felt speech he made that year.  I was impressed that night.
 
But I cannot bring myself to blame anyone who votes third party.  That blame I bestow on the main parties that offer up uninspiring candidates.  It helps to realize that of late, the third parties have offered total screwballs, but voting third party hurts nothing because we usually end up with duds when the votes are counted.  But Trump makes this year a special case.  And offering the "Any Functioning Adult" option is about the best Democrats can do or care to do.  It's not much of a strategy, however.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 29, 2020, 06:12:44 AM
I recently read that more than half of eligible voters in the USA don't vote.  The NYT interviewed a handful.  I don't know if interviewees were representative or not.  They were just felt disenfranchised by a system that did not represent their needs.  Apparently, being told by politicians that they would benefit if they voted for whoever was not convincing enough.  Non voters tended towards being uneducated and poor.  I don't think that necessarily disqualifies them from consideration, however.  But that's a lot of hopeless people.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 29, 2020, 06:49:16 AM
Maybe America will elect Kanye West...
I never heard of Kanye West and had to google.  I got lots of hits about him announcing his candidacy, but little else about the man, until I finally surfed my way down to this interview.  God forbid you watch the whole video.  It's three hours long, but you can get to know him in about the first three to five minutes.  Who knows.  If Trump can be president, then....  And this seems to be pretty much his argument for running.  But I only watched about 5 minutes or less.  A very short scroll down the page brings you to the video.

https://www.nme.com/news/music/watch-kanye-wests-mammoth-three-hour-interview-on-the-joe-rogan-experience-2797090

Anyone in the forum up for facing off against Kanye West in 2024?  I can't run because I'm still mastering the Rubik's Cube, but I could probably have time for a cabinet position.  As my Ex used to say, if she was in politics, she would want to be the one that was in charge of whales and elephants.  I applauded her for that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on October 29, 2020, 07:03:57 AM
I never heard of Kanye West and had to google.

He's this basically:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GzOoyOOfqM
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 29, 2020, 07:19:21 AM
I never heard of Kanye West and had to google.

I envy you.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on October 29, 2020, 07:47:25 AM
I envy you.
+1
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 29, 2020, 08:02:24 AM
I recently read that more than half of eligible voters in the USA don't vote.  The NYT interviewed a handful.  I don't know if interviewees were representative or not.  They were just felt disenfranchised by a system that did not represent their needs.  Apparently, being told by politicians that they would benefit if they voted for whoever was not convincing enough.  Non voters tended towards being uneducated and poor.  I don't think that necessarily disqualifies them from consideration, however.  But that's a lot of hopeless people.

According to the US Census Bureau (https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2018/demo/p20-582.html), these are reasons given by eligible voters why they did not vote in the presidential election in 2016:

Did not like candidates or campaign issues (4.7 million)
Not interested (2.9 million)
Too busy, conflicting schedule (2.7 million)
Illness or disability (2.2 million)
Other reason (2.1 million)
Out of town (1.5 million)
Registration problems (0.8 million)
Forgot to vote (0.6 million)
Don’t know or refused (0.5 million)
Transportation problems (0.5 million)
Inconvenient polling place (0.4 million)
Bad weather conditions (0.01 million)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 29, 2020, 08:24:43 AM
I recently read a poll that gives Biden an 8 percentage point lead over Trump, and 5% to 8% Biden leads seem to be about standard for the last month.  I can't remember Hillary's lead, but I remember what I considered a similar small percentage for her.  5% to 8% (or even less) should not and did not guarantee a slam dunk on election day, which should not have been the huge surprise that it was.

I also read a poll that attached the standard of error of +/- 8 to Biden's 8 point lead which means his lead could also be zero.  Granted it could also be +16, but whatever.  It's like Biden has an 8% lead with a standard error of +/- 8, but there is also a standard error of +/- 22 that the standard error of+/- 8 is incorrect.

I've read that pollsters have said that they have taken note of their errors in 2016, and corrected for that, but honestly I have read nothing where a pollster explains what they have done to correct what they did wrong. And to make it more complicated, the chances that they have accurately identified their errors correctly has a standard error of +/- 87.  Do these guys know what they are doing?  OK, they are probably better than us asking our friends what they think.  What we may need are retired bookies who made their living coming up with odds on horses.  Oh wait.  They might be the same people that do presidential polls already.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 29, 2020, 08:42:41 AM
According to the US Census Bureau (https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2018/demo/p20-582.html), these are reasons given by eligible voters why they did not vote in the presidential election in 2016:

Did not like candidates or campaign issues (4.7 million)
Not interested (2.9 million)
Too busy, conflicting schedule (2.7 million)
Illness or disability (2.2 million)
Other reason (2.1 million)
Out of town (1.5 million)
Registration problems (0.8 million)
Forgot to vote (0.6 million)
Don’t know or refused (0.5 million)
Transportation problems (0.5 million)
Inconvenient polling place (0.4 million)
Bad weather conditions (0.01 million)
Actually, those numbers seem to match up with the reasons given in the article I read.  The article may have made mention of the census.  I can't remember. Keep in mind that there were only 3 or 4 people that the article profiled in the NYT.  I sort of assume those were representative of the whole, but I don't know that.  The two largest groups on the census reasons seem to reflect the disenfranchisement I picked up from the article.  The the last three were the smallest groups, and the ones that Republicans and Democrats are arguing about.  I don't want to downplay their importance because of the groups' relative sizes.  Voting should be as easy as possible for everyone, including those that happen to be "out of town."  But disenfranchisement doesn't lend itself to debate, because you can't pin the blame on the other guy in a political debate over why people don't like either one of you.  And that seems to be the biggest problem.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 29, 2020, 11:13:29 AM
Maybe America will elect Kanye West...

Absolutely!  If I considered myself not to old to vote, I would definitely vote for him.  Seriously.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 29, 2020, 11:16:07 AM
I recently read that more than half of eligible voters in the USA don't vote.  The NYT interviewed a handful.  I don't know if interviewees were representative or not.  They were just felt disenfranchised by a system that did not represent their needs.  Apparently, being told by politicians that they would benefit if they voted for whoever was not convincing enough.  Non voters tended towards being uneducated and poor.  I don't think that necessarily disqualifies them from consideration, however.  But that's a lot of hopeless people.

Systematic class warfare against Black and White.  The Middle Class are part of the problem, not part of the solution, man.

Polls are COINTELPRO ... they don't measure politics, they move it
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 29, 2020, 11:17:47 AM
I envy you.

The banjo is the only musical instrument invented in America.  Jazz and rap are the only musical forms invented in America.  Which group did this?

Turks have belly dancing I guess ... not bad.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 29, 2020, 11:18:48 AM
According to the US Census Bureau (https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2018/demo/p20-582.html), these are reasons given by eligible voters why they did not vote in the presidential election in 2016:

Did not like candidates or campaign issues (4.7 million)
Not interested (2.9 million)
Too busy, conflicting schedule (2.7 million)
Illness or disability (2.2 million)
Other reason (2.1 million)
Out of town (1.5 million)
Registration problems (0.8 million)
Forgot to vote (0.6 million)
Don’t know or refused (0.5 million)
Transportation problems (0.5 million)
Inconvenient polling place (0.4 million)
Bad weather conditions (0.01 million)

They forgot two ...

BLM/AntiFa will murder me
KKK/NeoNazis will murder me ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 29, 2020, 10:38:48 PM
I recently read a poll that gives Biden an 8 percentage point lead over Trump, and 5% to 8% Biden leads seem to be about standard for the last month.  I can't remember Hillary's lead, but I remember what I considered a similar small percentage for her.  5% to 8% (or even less) should not and did not guarantee a slam dunk on election day, which should not have been the huge surprise that it was.

I also read a poll that attached the standard of error of +/- 8 to Biden's 8 point lead which means his lead could also be zero.  Granted it could also be +16, but whatever.  It's like Biden has an 8% lead with a standard error of +/- 8, but there is also a standard error of +/- 22 that the standard error of+/- 8 is incorrect.

I've read that pollsters have said that they have taken note of their errors in 2016, and corrected for that, but honestly I have read nothing where a pollster explains what they have done to correct what they did wrong. And to make it more complicated, the chances that they have accurately identified their errors correctly has a standard error of +/- 87.  Do these guys know what they are doing?  OK, they are probably better than us asking our friends what they think.  What we may need are retired bookies who made their living coming up with odds on horses.  Oh wait.  They might be the same people that do presidential polls already.
That's a great question!  And the full answer could and likely will be a best-seller.  But we don't have that kind of time, so I'll try to be as brief as possible:

1) 2016 had more undecideds (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/12/21/14025198/trump-undecided-final-weeks-survey) and less turnout than 2020 (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/10/22/voter-turnout-2020-ranking-us-presidential-elections/6006793002/), with generally poor favorability ratings for both candidates (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president/clintontrumpfavorability.html).  That has changed (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president/trumpbidenfavorability.html).
2) Biden has a larger lead than Clinton ever did (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/biden-is-polling-better-than-clinton-at-her-peak/), it's consistent, and the gap hasn't narrowed nearly as much (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/29/biden-maintains-polling-lead-over-trump-with-five-days-left-to.html), though it has narrowed in some of the battleground states, it's very different than 2016 (https://fortune.com/2020/10/28/2020-election-florida-trump-biden-polls-update/)
3) Pollsters didn't weight the No College Degree category correctly in 2016 (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/pollsters-probably-didnt-talk-to-enough-white-voters-without-college-degrees/), they've since corrected that.
4) Pollsters flubbed the Great Lakes states in 2016 (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/presidential-election-polls-2016-what-went-wrong/), they've since corrected that.

A lot of information there, honestly too much to really deal with all at once, so mull over it at your convenience and I'm more than willing to provide more info or take questions on specific points.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 29, 2020, 10:41:53 PM
In lieu of 1000 words:

(https://preview.redd.it/22oltetjnvv51.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=1c5342c7f5f8a4280a721094d219678fc273cb58)

If 2020 polls are off by the same amount they were in 2016, Trump would pick up some of the close states, but not enough to win.

Source (https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/presidential-polls-trump-biden#the-polls-are-here-and-they-tell-a-clear-story)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 30, 2020, 01:16:37 AM
(https://scontent.fhou1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/123005401_3781563575210884_3880918783873092534_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=yxPixI4YL-IAX_2hd3p&_nc_ht=scontent.fhou1-2.fna&oh=37b0dfdc01cd57311fc1bc6051986097&oe=5FC08105)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 30, 2020, 04:05:08 AM
The banjo is the only musical instrument invented in America.  Jazz and rap are the only musical forms invented in America.  Which group did this?

Turks have belly dancing I guess ... not bad.

Yeah because this is about black culture and music, right? Kanye West is a narcissist billioner who made his money from some sports wear and his fame, largely from his outbursts and his wife. It's a clever marriage business. He doesn't represent anything. He is one of the last people to represent African Americans. The fact that a large group of people deify figures like him is a result of modern culture and societies teaching children deify money & fame at every cost for the power that comes with it.

What does belly dancing have to with any of this? 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 30, 2020, 11:32:15 AM
Yeah because this is about black culture and music, right? Kanye West is a narcissist billioner who made his money from some sports wear and his fame, largely from his outbursts and his wife. It's a clever marriage business. He doesn't represent anything. He is one of the last people to represent African Americans. The fact that a large group of people deify figures like him is a result of modern culture and societies teaching children deify money & fame at every cost for the power that comes with it.

What does belly dancing have to with any of this?

The problem with communists, they are all envious murderers.  Like in the NT parable of the share croppers who kill the son of the landlord.  Capitalists are like the prodigal son however.

Yes, real African-Americans are like the Black antagonist in Black Panther.  As Mike CL will ironically say, fiction isn't real.  I have worked with dozens of African-Americans for 40 years, and none of them are like that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 30, 2020, 01:13:32 PM
(https://cbsnews3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2020/10/18/27c31ee4-7902-4f14-ab61-835ae4ff9469/thumbnail/620x286/50267bbd7533b9105ac83dd7856c55f3/image049-1.jpg)

Do you guys remember when Trump ran as a populist and pretended to champion the working class?  That illusion is broken and has been broken for quite some time.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 30, 2020, 01:28:41 PM
(https://cbsnews3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2020/10/18/27c31ee4-7902-4f14-ab61-835ae4ff9469/thumbnail/620x286/50267bbd7533b9105ac83dd7856c55f3/image049-1.jpg)

Do you guys remember when Trump ran as a populist and pretended to champion the working class?  That illusion is broken and has been broken for quite some time.

My younger brother lives in a large housing development with less expensive homes at the entry to the community and more expensive homes further in. He commented that the entry-level homes all have blue political yard signs and as the home increase in cost the signs turn red.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 30, 2020, 01:38:55 PM
My younger brother lives in a large housing development with less expensive homes at the entry to the community and more expensive homes further in. He commented that the entry-level homes all have blue political yard signs and as the home increase in cost the signs turn red.
Yep, broadly true (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/06/05/its-time-to-bust-the-myth-most-trump-voters-were-not-working-class/).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 30, 2020, 03:31:25 PM
When are the middle class / poor Conservatives going to finally realize Republicans don't care about them? The idea that making the richer richer is somehow going to result in that money trickling down to them, rather than in some offshore, tax free account is just delusional. They don't respond to getting more money by investing more in their employees.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 30, 2020, 03:49:02 PM
Trump cancels election night party at Trump hotel, prepares to bunker down at White House (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/523528-trump-changes-election-night-plans-cancels-party-at-trump-international)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 30, 2020, 04:02:16 PM
When are the middle class / poor Conservatives going to finally realize Republicans don't care about them? The idea that making the richer richer is somehow going to result in that money trickling down to them, rather than in some offshore, tax free account is just delusional. They don't respond to getting more money by investing more in their employees.

When are Americans going to finally realize that Democrats only care about criminals and Chinese politburo members?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 30, 2020, 04:03:03 PM
Trump cancels election night party at Trump hotel, prepares to bunker down at White House (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/523528-trump-changes-election-night-plans-cancels-party-at-trump-international)

Good plan, the Dems plan on killing all White people and men next month ;-)

"Key Steele Dossier Source Revealed As Alcoholic Disgruntled Russian PR Exec In Cyprus" ... Mrs 40-year old Olga Galkina.  Bet she had the hots for Hillary.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on October 30, 2020, 04:30:36 PM
 The level of hostility on this thread is off the charts, but that's pretty much what I expected. Some of you seem to have a lot of time to do your "research" about who's going to win and what the aftermath will be. How much rent do you pay your parents? With this amount of hatred for any one who doesn't follow your every word, how do you hold down a real job? I'll just live my retirement years with my family and sleep well at night. Just promise that you won't go off the deep-end when trump is re-elected on tuesday.  P.S., I write like a 61 year old , not 16. I think you got your numbers mixed-up. See ya in 2021!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on October 30, 2020, 04:35:39 PM
P.S., I write like a 61 year old with dementia , not 16. I think you got your numbers mixed-up. See ya in 2021!
fify
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 30, 2020, 04:49:19 PM
The level of hostility on this thread is off the charts, but that's pretty much what I expected. Some of you seem to have a lot of time to do your "research" about who's going to win and what the aftermath will be. How much rent do you pay your parents?

OMG. The lack of self-awareness here is astonishing. We're the hostile ones? Yeah, sure.

And seriously? You're going to make fun of people for doing their research? As if that's a...bad thing? Okay... Welcome to my ignore list, you hopeless moron.

Also, not that it's any of your business, but I haven't lived with my parents for a long time. Not that that has anything to do with the validity of our arguments. But I suspect you know that. You're just being an asshole, while trying to paint us as the nasty ones... Maybe one day you'll grow a brain, but I'm not holding my breath.

With this amount of hatred for any one who doesn't follow your every word, how do you hold down a real job? I'll just live my retirement years with my family and sleep well at night. Just promise that you won't go off the deep-end when trump is re-elected on tuesday.  P.S., I write like a 61 year old , not 16. I think you got your numbers mixed-up. See ya in 2021!

"I'm too busy enjoying my retirement to waste my life here."

Five minutes later:

"Yup. Still too busy living it up here to contribute to this hate. So...so busy."

Ten minutes later:

"Just so you guys know, I'm not going to be posting here any more. All this hate is really putting me down."

Thirty minutes later:

"Just checking to make extra sure you guys know, I'm not going to bother with you guys any more. I'm enjoying my life too much to let you guys bring me down with your hate. Just thought I'd make sure you knew that."
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 30, 2020, 04:52:18 PM
@bob nelson .. nobody knows what will happen tomorrow, let alone with the election and its aftermath.  And nobody knows if that will be good or bad ... until a year from now, maybe ... and that depends on your POV.  So think of this as a hooligan fight at a British soccer match, between fat guys who couldn't get a ball past the goalie ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 30, 2020, 05:45:01 PM
The level of hostility on this thread is off the charts, but that's pretty much what I expected. Some of you seem to have a lot of time to do your "research" about who's going to win and what the aftermath will be. How much rent do you pay your parents? With this amount of hatred for any one who doesn't follow your every word, how do you hold down a real job? I'll just live my retirement years with my family and sleep well at night. Just promise that you won't go off the deep-end when trump is re-elected on tuesday.  P.S., I write like a 61 year old , not 16. I think you got your numbers mixed-up. See ya in 2021!
No, no mix-up.  You seem to possess an emotional age of probably closer to 12 going on 13.  You came here complaining about your family--now that is what you enjoy.  Make up your mind.  And remember, you came here--nobody forced you to come or stay.  So, quit your sniveling and engage in a dialogue instead of trying to make us the bad guys.  Or better yet, simply stay off this forum, enjoy your family more and listen to the music of a person 12 going on 13--death metal--yeah, good healthy stuff, alright.  And maybe spend some time with a shrink.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on October 30, 2020, 06:01:21 PM
Isn't it funny that children always think they're more mature than they are?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on October 30, 2020, 08:54:04 PM
The level of hostility on this thread is off the charts, but that's pretty much what I expected. Some of you seem to have a lot of time to do your "research" about who's going to win and what the aftermath will be. How much rent do you pay your parents? With this amount of hatred for any one who doesn't follow your every word, how do you hold down a real job? I'll just live my retirement years with my family and sleep well at night. Just promise that you won't go off the deep-end when trump is re-elected on tuesday.  P.S., I write like a 61 year old , not 16. I think you got your numbers mixed-up. See ya in 2021!

Pretty much said every republican ever.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 30, 2020, 09:00:05 PM
That's a great question!  And the full answer could and likely will be a best-seller.  But we don't have that kind of time, so I'll try to be as brief as possible:

1) 2016 had more undecideds (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/12/21/14025198/trump-undecided-final-weeks-survey) and less turnout than 2020 (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/10/22/voter-turnout-2020-ranking-us-presidential-elections/6006793002/), with generally poor favorability ratings for both candidates (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president/clintontrumpfavorability.html).  That has changed (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president/trumpbidenfavorability.html).
2) Biden has a larger lead than Clinton ever did (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/biden-is-polling-better-than-clinton-at-her-peak/), it's consistent, and the gap hasn't narrowed nearly as much (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/29/biden-maintains-polling-lead-over-trump-with-five-days-left-to.html), though it has narrowed in some of the battleground states, it's very different than 2016 (https://fortune.com/2020/10/28/2020-election-florida-trump-biden-polls-update/)
3) Pollsters didn't weight the No College Degree category correctly in 2016 (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/pollsters-probably-didnt-talk-to-enough-white-voters-without-college-degrees/), they've since corrected that.
4) Pollsters flubbed the Great Lakes states in 2016 (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/presidential-election-polls-2016-what-went-wrong/), they've since corrected that.

A lot of information there, honestly too much to really deal with all at once, so mull over it at your convenience and I'm more than willing to provide more info or take questions on specific points.
Number 4 was the one I could keep up with. It actually spoke to my issue by saying how groups are weighted has changed. But to find out if that and other changes will be more accurate this time around, I think we will have to wait until election night.

I probably made too much of my issue.  Polls are subject to error.  We all know that, and I knew that.  Polls have been around long enough and experts have figured out about as much as they as can by now.  There will probably never be a reason to say, this year or any other year, they suddenly got it right.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 30, 2020, 09:24:24 PM
I probably made too much of my issue.
Au contraire, it's a very important thing to bring up.  In 2016, a lot of people looked at the political sites like CNN and HuffPo with their 90-95% Clinton predictions and Clinton national lead and got the shock of their lives.  And people understandably don't trust polling nearly as much as they did before.  And now, with new polls coming out every day and making headlines, and people getting a lot of deja vu, it's super important to understand both the fallibility of polling and (paradoxically) the reliability of polling.

A fair amount of polling skepticism might actually be a good thing because people won't assume it's in the bag and stay home.  And Dem campaigns are likely to urge their supporters to work towards such a large lead that it far exceeds any realistic error bar or shy Republican vote.  This greater participation and leaving nothing to chance are good strategies whether the polls are accurate or not.

Don't count your chickens till they lay eggs themselves!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 31, 2020, 06:50:14 AM
In 2016, a lot of people looked at the political sites like CNN and HuffPo with their 90-95% Clinton predictions and Clinton national lead and got the shock of their lives.  And people understandably don't trust polling nearly as much as they did before.
I don't trust polling anymore or any less than I did in 2016.  Some college course I took spent time teaching about taking surveys, and while I had seen surveys with obviously flawed methodology, I was surprised by the number of things that can affect the accuracy of a survey, and I imagined that the actual list went on more or less endlessly.  The point being that experts can only do the best they can within their area of knowledge and expertise.  The polling environment is also fraught with charlatans trying to influence public thinking by wording questions that are obvious political ads, rather than seeking to understand a person's thoughts.

I read one pollster in 2016 say they failed to determine how many people said they were voting for Hillary but would actually stay home, possibly for the very reason that they read in the polls that Hillary would win.  No doubt many people don't vote when they think their choice is in the bag.  Apparently the pollsters did not weight for that.  I haven't seen how that has been corrected this year.  My bias is that factor alone was enormous.  But I don't know that, because no poll was ever taken to determine who will actually stay home.  It may be a bigger factor this year than 2016, because pollsters are saying Biden has a bigger lead, not only overall, but in "such and such" special cases.  And all of those cases are cherry picked to support today's accuracy of the new polling, which means more pollster bias.

OK, enough of that.  Polls are not reliable, especially when what they are predicting depends on a minute difference in the data. Presidential elections are won by 51/49, not 80/20, so political polls are especially unreliable because they can't cut it as close as the actual vote that is inevitably going to be a photo finish.  The media often treats 54/46 as a political landslide which never strikes me as a land slide.  Throw in some monkey business like gerrymandering, fucking with the mail, or depending on the electoral college, and polls are even less important.

One last thing.  I did not vote in 2016.  It was not because I thought Hillary had it in the bag.  I wasn't interested in Hillary.  The reason I didn't vote was because I thought Trump was a jerk and Clinton was a status quo Democrat. Neither of which would do anything positive for the country.  I voted this year, not because I think Biden is better than Clinton.  My goodness, they asked him to stay out of the race so they could run Hillary as the stronger choice 4 years ago.  Biden is still status quo, every bit as much as Clinton.  It's just that Trump turned out to be a far bigger jerk than I ever imagined, and I already had a horribly low opinion of him in 2016.  It's pitiful voting for the person that isn't supposed to be as good as the last person I didn't vote for.  There's nothing positive about any of this process when the only upside is knowing it could be worse.  That should be the Democrats bumper sticker:  "It Could Be Worse!  Vote Blue!"  But that's not my idea of being "progressive."
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 31, 2020, 07:54:06 AM
Something I thought was really interesting in 2016 that is only tangentially related to election predictions is that I watched the election returns until the wee hours.  The streaming service I watched was highlighted by an on-screen digital dial, made to look like an analog meter that was never taken off the screen even during the clips and commentary that made up most of the night, but was punctuated only occasionally with incoming data from the states.

The dial put Trump on one side, and Hillary on the other and showed NOT who was winning, but what the incoming data was predicting who WOULD win by the end of the night.  Before any data at all came in, the needle on the dial pointed almost straight at Hillary.  That kind of made sense, because it supposedly reflected what polls suggested.  Then the data started to come in, sometimes it favored Hillary and sometimes it favored Trump, but it was early so the needle jiggled a little, but seemed to keep coming back to Hillary like it was magnetized.  Apparently, data that favored Trump was not consequential enough to swing the needle that much, so it kept bouncing around Hillary almost to the very end.  Even when the electoral college showed the same number of votes for both candidates, the needle was stuck on Hillary.  Like some component in the innards of the dial was calculating some other probabilities.   When everyone could tell that the electoral college already had decided the outcome, the needle began to point more toward the Trump side of the dial, as if there was more to come, like maybe the electoral college data would somehow shift again toward Hillary.  With in a half hour of the end of the program, the needle finally went to Trump, long after the votes said he had already won.

Then they brought in in some Trump supporting talking head, who had looked like she had been having menstrual cramps all evening, but now she was all animated and claiming that she knew Trump was going to win all along, because he cared so much about the working man, and the health of the nation, and bla, bla, bla.  Now I can understand her joy.  What right winger wouldn't have been in a state of jubilation by then?  I got that, but the rest of her reason was based on nothing that was known to anyone, and still isn't today.

OK, I was shocked by the outcome, not because the polls were wrong, but because I also thought Hillary would win, but based only on the belief that everyone could certainly see that Trump was nothing more than some wealthy clown.  So this year if Trumps wins, I would probably be even less surprised, because I now have a clearer understanding of my lack of perspective about the country I live in.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 31, 2020, 08:27:53 AM
Pretty much said every republican ever.

Democrat - got slave?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 31, 2020, 03:21:29 PM
The polling environment is also fraught with charlatans trying to influence public thinking by wording questions that are obvious political ads, rather than seeking to understand a person's thoughts.
That's why the poll themselves are rated and weighted accordingly. (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/)  And anytime I see an online-only poll, I take it with a heaping helping of salt.

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I read one pollster in 2016 say they failed to determine how many people said they were voting for Hillary but would actually stay home, possibly for the very reason that they read in the polls that Hillary would win.  No doubt many people don't vote when they think their choice is in the bag.  Apparently the pollsters did not weight for that.  I haven't seen how that has been corrected this year.
Pollsters of course can't correct for people getting overconfident and complacent because their whole purpose is to say who's leading and who's not, how people use that info is on them.  If the poll results show Biden in the lead, they have to say Biden is in the lead.

What the Biden campaign and people in general have done is to urge people to vote regardless of what the polls say, to not get complacent.  That's all you really can do.

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It may be a bigger factor this year than 2016, because pollsters are saying Biden has a bigger lead, not only overall, but in "such and such" special cases.
If voting this year was at or below 2016, then the idea that people are over-confidently staying home would be a legitimate concern.  But this year's turnout blows 2016 out of the water.  So I don't see how there's a stay-at-home problem.

And yes, the polls could be off at specific battleground states, which is worrisome.

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And all of those cases are cherry picked to support today's accuracy of the new polling, which means more pollster bias.
I dunno what you're saying here.  Are you saying that the pollsters are picking and choosing which polls to publish and only publish polls favoring Biden?

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Polls are not reliable, especially when what they are predicting depends on a minute difference in the data. Presidential elections are won by 51/49, not 80/20, so political polls are especially unreliable because they can't cut it as close as the actual vote that is inevitably going to be a photo finish.
Presidential elections typically have a close popular vote, but the electoral college swings wildly.

In 2004, the popular vote was close at ~51%/~48%, but the electoral college was 286 to 251
In 2008, the popular vote was close at ~53%/~46% but the electoral college was 365 to 173.
In 2012, the popular vote was close at ~51%/~47%, but the electoral college was 332 to 206.

So I agree that a national lead isn't a terribly reliable indicator (even a flawless reading of the general public isn't particularly useful since our electoral system isn't a straight popular vote)

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The media often treats 54/46 as a political landslide which never strikes me as a land slide.
You're right, it's not. 

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Throw in some monkey business like gerrymandering, fucking with the mail, or depending on the electoral college, and polls are even less important.
I agree with that.

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One last thing.  I did not vote in 2016.  It was not because I thought Hillary had it in the bag.  I wasn't interested in Hillary.  The reason I didn't vote was because I thought Trump was a jerk and Clinton was a status quo Democrat. Neither of which would do anything positive for the country.
I don't blame you for that.  I did vote in 2016 and my reasoning (which I posted here) is that Hillary Clinton would control Supreme Court nominees.  As Trump said, elections have consequences and we're seeing those consequences right now.

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My goodness, they asked him to stay out of the race so they could run Hillary as the stronger choice 4 years ago.
A similar incident happened with Sanders.  I dunno how that would have played out, but we all know how it played out with Clinton.  It's pretty galling to see the DNC get upset about Trump's attempts to alter the course of this election considering how they run their primaries.

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Biden is still status quo, every bit as much as Clinton.
Eh, I dunno about that.  I guess we'll see.  He's no socialist, that's for sure.  And sadly, no matter who wins, a lot of much-needed reforms are a dream deferred.  But I do like Biden's energy plan (though obviously I wish he would go further).  Gotta start somewhere, I guess.

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It's just that Trump turned out to be a far bigger jerk than I ever imagined, and I already had a horribly low opinion of him in 2016.
I had a very dim view of him throughout the 2016 campaign season (global warming as a Chinese hoax was especially infuriating) but I thought he might follow through on some of his more reasonable ideas, like overhauling infrastructure and stamping out corruption.  Brutally disappointing, and that's an understatement.

Honestly, if 2020 me read today's headlines to 2016 me, I'd think it was some sick joke.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on October 31, 2020, 03:47:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk_QnKtBH8w
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 31, 2020, 04:15:15 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk_QnKtBH8w

I miss the times when Trump was universally considered a clown. Now it's only everyone except Conservatives and Conservatives LARPing as Moderates who agree he's a clown.

"I'm totally left of center, you guys! Just because I consistently take the position against policies that benefit racial and sexual minorities, think that societies turning away from Conservative Christian "values" is hurting the family unit, and are more concerned about the threat of blue-haired college students than literal Nazis doesn't mean I'm a Conservative!"
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 31, 2020, 05:08:56 PM

And all of those cases are cherry picked to support today's accuracy of the new polling, which means more pollster bias.

I dunno what you're saying here.  Are you saying that the pollsters are picking and choosing which polls to publish and only publish polls favoring Biden?
No not at all.  I'm thinking pollsters would be motivated (possibly unconsciously) to create the impression that they have their bases covered this year by pointing out changes they have made in methodology, and why their changes are correct.  But that seems like Monday morning quarterbacking to make those assumptions.  I'm not attacking pollsters.  I think polling is less than an exact science, and much is left to bias.  Actually, I'm not that hot on my own argument, because it's more like I'm thinking out loud, and I'm not sure how sound that is.  I'm not at all saying that pollsters are fudging to give Biden a better lead.  I give them way more credit than that. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 31, 2020, 05:12:26 PM
If you are a married adult (even to same gender), if you work full time equivalent between the two of you, if you are raising children or otherwise supporting them as a Big Brother etc ... then I believe you have family values.  Some are too young or presently out of luck.  If you are working against those ordinary common things, then you are part of the problem not part of the solution.  I see all politicians in the latter category.  So no matter who wins next month, the American people will lose again, as they do every two years.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 31, 2020, 06:35:46 PM
I'm thinking pollsters would be motivated (possibly unconsciously) to create the impression that they have their bases covered this year by pointing out changes they have made in methodology, and why their changes are correct.
I mean, I'm sure they've gotten questions about why polls were so off in 2016 and what they're doing differently this time around.  If I were a pollster, I'd draw a lot of attention to the methodology changes myself, possibly boring the question-asker into a statistics-induced coma.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 31, 2020, 06:48:00 PM
Speaking of polls, there's bit of disagreement over them at the moment (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/523426-positive-trump-polls-spark-polling-circle-debate)

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The Trafalgar Group, which was the only nonpartisan outlet in 2016 to find Trump leading in Michigan and Pennsylvania on Election Day, shows Trump with small leads in both states, which would be keys to another Trump win in the Electoral College. Nearly every other pollster shows Biden with a comfortable lead.

Trafalgar’s Robert Cahaly says there is a hidden Trump vote that is not being accounted for in polls that show Biden on a glide path to the White House.

“There are more [shy Trump voters] than last time and it’s not even a contest,” Cahaly said, adding that it’s “quite possible” that the polling industry is headed for a catastrophic miss in 2020.

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FiveThirtyEight’s Nate Silver and Cook Political Report editor Dave Wasserman are among those deeply skeptical of Cahaly’s polling.

Both have dug into the crosstabs of Trafalgar polls and pointed to questionable breakdowns as evidence Trafalgar doesn’t know what it’s doing. For instance, the crosstabs in a Michigan poll, which are no longer online, appeared to show Trump leading Biden by 8 points among young voters, a Democratic stronghold.
Maybe they're using this (https://external-preview.redd.it/AzCUWHywB1EvG1Qtgsxi7FJqKmV37PzJb2dPBcReqDc.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=a97d1a3498d6b5dfafe5239595be7e0909bfeeb5) as part of their dataset?

Who's right?  I dunno.  I guess we'll find out.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 31, 2020, 07:04:03 PM
Both the media and the GOP love really close elections - the media gets more money if it looks like a horse race, and the GOP because close elections are easier to steal. Voter suppression works better that way.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 31, 2020, 09:18:53 PM
Both the media and the GOP love really close elections - the media gets more money if it looks like a horse race, and the GOP because close elections are easier to steal. Voter suppression works better that way.

Chaos creates investment opportunities.  So does burning down cities.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 01, 2020, 11:55:08 AM
Saying the quiet part out loud:  Minnesota GOP worries that late ballots may "dilute" their vote (https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-virus-outbreak-elections-minnesota-courts-56d03fd6e52f46129936e9c6d2a66eeb)

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Minnesota was one of those states, with a consent decree in state court that changed the rules so ballots postmarked on or before Nov. 3 could be accepted for up to seven days after the election.

Republican state Rep. Eric Lucero and GOP activist James Carson, who both would participate in the Electoral College if President Donald Trump carries Minnesota, opposed the state agreement and took the case to federal court. Their lawsuit, backed by the conservative-leaning Honest Elections Project, argued that an extension would create chaos and dilute the value of their votes by counting “unlawful” ballots after Election Day.
They supposedly have the silent majority on their side, so I don't see what they're worried about.  If anything, they'd insist that every ballot be counted because they love America (and by extension, America's democratic tradition) and know they have the support of the common man, who will outnumber any minority liberal elites.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 01, 2020, 12:03:11 PM
Saying the quiet part out loud:  Minnesota GOP worries that late ballots may "dilute" their vote (https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-virus-outbreak-elections-minnesota-courts-56d03fd6e52f46129936e9c6d2a66eeb)
They supposedly have the silent majority on their side, so I don't see what they're worried about.  If anything, they'd insist that every ballot be counted because they love America (and by extension, America's democratic tradition) and know they have the support of the common man, who will outnumber any minority liberal elites.

Hubert Humphrey won in 1968, George McGovern won in 1972 ... bwahaha  ... there is no silent majority.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on November 01, 2020, 04:04:30 PM
 You're right, I did join this thread willingly, and found out that what I had heard about most atheists is true. They are liberal and usually vote for the left and that I should probably keep my political leanings to my self. Some of you are taking politics and yourselves way too seriously. It's not healthy to get that wound up over something that you think you can influence one way or the other. All politicians are corrupt. All have very low moral standards, that's why they are so many career politicans in office, they'll do ANYTHING to stay in power. That's the myth about D.C. They don't care about us, they care about getting rich. When the clintons left the white house, hilliary whined about them being broke. They didn't know where they were going to end up. Now they're worth 100+ million dollars. All of that money was earned legally right? Sure, it's all about the people. All of your opinions and my own mean less than nothing to them, we're just a means to an end.I take no insults personally and infer non on any one else. We will continue to live our lives after this is over, and hopefully the future will be better than it is now. Right now, it's all just one giant cluster-fuck.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on November 01, 2020, 05:28:50 PM
The problem is the right believes in government by the people. But only the right people.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 01, 2020, 06:06:12 PM
You're right, I did join this thread willingly, and found out that what I had heard about most atheists is true. They are liberal and usually vote for the left and that I should probably keep my political leanings to my self.
That was a pretty slow revelation after several posts of MAGA chest-beating.  At the very least, you could've looked around before jumping in and foolishly assuming everyone was pro-Trump.

And you know, there's only like a handful of regular posters here, so probably too small a sample size for all atheists.  You might wanna try somewhere else, though the right-wing boards tend to lend themselves to right-wing Christianity, and I dunno if they'd think kindly of your kind.  Something about leopards and faces.

That said, there is a loose correlation between atheism and leaning left politically, at least in the West.  There are lots of interesting theories as to why this is the case.  Personally, I think the fact that atheists typically aren't pro-theocracy is probably a pretty big factor.

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Some of you are taking politics and yourselves way too seriously.
You try (very hard, I might add) to portray talking about politics practically on the eve of a major election as a bad thing.  Why?  Would you feel the same if it was people expressing right-wing viewpoints?

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It's not healthy to get that wound up over something that you think you can influence one way or the other.
Have you ever met a religious person?  Or a scientist?  Or just a regular person?  People get worried about stuff they can't change all the time.  But in this case, there is a clearcut course of action and it's called the ballot box.  After that, it's wait-and-see time.  And naturally, people are going to talk during this period.  Purely optional, of course.  You can talk or not talk, just don't stand in the doorway, m'kay?

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All politicians are corrupt.
This seems to be something of a right-wing mantra (or is it a thought-terminating cliche?).  I know you guys need to believe that because of your own associations (the grass can't possibly be greener elsewhere) but the obvious fact is that there are a range people in politics - good people, decent people, okay people, bad people, deplorables, etc.

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All have very low moral standards, that's why they are so many career politicans in office, they'll do ANYTHING to stay in power.
Well, we just ran the experiment and tried a reality tv star instead.  It didn't work out so well.

And although career politicians (like career scientists and career educators) typically aren't viewed very favorably by the right (apparently, McConnell is the exception for some reason), there's something to be said for experience and expertise.

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We will continue to live our lives after this is over, and hopefully the future will be better than it is now.
It's looking that way, despite some strenuous efforts otherwise.  But we'll see.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on November 01, 2020, 06:11:22 PM
Rather a telling statement to say all politicians have low morals when you tout conservative, the most “pretend religious” ever, having the lowest morals. But...that is nothing new to us. Christians have always been fond of following scripture that benefits them and ignoring the ones that are inconvenient or not profitable.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 01, 2020, 06:18:40 PM
The problem is the right believes in government by the people. But only the right people.

The Left believes in government by Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, Mao, Castro, Tito, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot etc.  Because communism is utopia, and any thing done to further utopia should be done ... have to break a few 10s of millions of eggs for one big happy omelet, right?

The government has always been by the Elite.  The question is, which elite?  Democracy has always been a sham, thanks to brain washed deplorables.  It is two wolves discussing with one sheep, what to have for dinner.  In an autarchy the wolves don't vote, in a democracy the wolves vote.  The result is the same.

If there had never been any Christians, the atheists would still complain about them ;-)  Atheists of course reject all gods, except the tiny god that is their own ego ;-)) ... that is why there is no room for other gods ;-)))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 01, 2020, 06:44:04 PM
Once I reached upper management in corporate America and my portfolio was fluctuating 5 figures on an average day, I was allowed to attend events with people worth hundreds of millions and they would shoot the shit. They love the stereotypical Trump voters. They had a laugh about how they are "as dumb as rocks", but they love them.

The only vote that matters is the one vote per share that elects that board who will do all the real what, where, who and when deciding that really effects our lives (including who in the government needs to be elected for the very purpose of throttling itself.) And of course your health is just another business.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 01, 2020, 08:16:29 PM
So to update our list of things that disqualify you from having a valid opinion in politics, according to bob nelson:

1. Having a cartoon/anime avatar.

2. Having a username based on a cartoon or anime.

3. Living with your parents.

4. Doing too much research.

5. Being mad about stuff.

6. Caring too much about politics.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 01, 2020, 08:24:23 PM
The problem is the right believes in government by the people. But only the right people.

Specifically, the old, rich, white, Christian guys, and the minorities who are willing to simp for them. Everyone else is a whiny socialist who should just be happy they allow us to live here.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 01, 2020, 09:09:24 PM
Atheists of course reject all gods, except the tiny god that is their own ego ;-)) ... that is why there is no room for other gods ;-)))

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGU-33_W8AAKqYp?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 01, 2020, 09:13:15 PM
Once I reached upper management in corporate America and my portfolio was fluctuating 5 figures on an average day, I was allowed to attend events with people worth hundreds of millions and they would shoot the shit. They love the stereotypical Trump voters. They had a laugh about how they are "as dumb as rocks", but they love them.

The only vote that matters is the one vote per share that elects that board who will do all the real what, where, who and when deciding that really effects our lives (including who in the government needs to be elected for the very purpose of throttling itself.) And of course your health is just another business.


That is why, looking back 46 years, I would never hire a failed lawyer or con artist (aka politician) for any job.  Not that there aren't worthless shits in business, who shouldn't be allowed to run a lemonade stand.  One of my favorites …

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/546936.Up_the_Organization

@GSOgymrat … everyone who posts on the Internet is an asshole, which is why I post too ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 01, 2020, 09:16:29 PM
Specifically, the old, rich, white, Christian guys, and the minorities who are willing to simp for them. Everyone else is a whiny socialist who should just be happy they allow us to live here.
I saw a post on social media that basically tried to excuse GOP attempts to manipulate the election on the grounds that the liberals are doing the same thing by "bribing" the electorate with social programs.  Apparently, people deriving some benefit from their tax dollars counts as bribery now.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 01, 2020, 09:18:32 PM
I saw a post on social media that basically tried to excuse GOP attempts to manipulate the election on the grounds that the liberals are doing the same thing by "bribing" the electorate with social programs.  Apparently, people deriving some benefit from their tax dollars counts as bribery now.

 Bribery is good, so is murder.  Don't be such killjoys!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 02, 2020, 12:44:39 AM
I saw a post on social media that basically tried to excuse GOP attempts to manipulate the election on the grounds that the liberals are doing the same thing by "bribing" the electorate with social programs.  Apparently, people deriving some benefit from their tax dollars counts as bribery now.

I don't suppose those social media posters have returned their $1200 Trump-endorsed bribes "stimulus checks" to the government.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 02, 2020, 03:39:27 AM
They don't see any of it as crime or even corruption when they, themselves do it. This is how organized religion and right wing works. It's the whole point of orgnized religion from the beginning. Right wing politics and policies, nationalism is the religion of the modern state. It's the same fucking shit. It's the same everywhere around the world.

"But deomcrats are corrupt too!" Yeah because Democrats in the US are right wing too. They are just not insanely homicidal, they're aiming for some sort of a balance in making policies for people. A simple example. They understand the consequences of prohibiting abortion. Or why there should be a universal health care.

Forget about the pandemic and the last 4 years. As far as I understand the lobby system in the US is worst than an absurd horror movie. Or have you guys seen the documentary called The Laundromat? If that is a popular movie made in the last few years with Hollywood stars, think about what has been really going on for decades? Did you know that they sued and tried to remove that from Netflix? How many people were imprisoned after 2008 mortgage crisis? It seems, just after that the same thing has started over again. What will happen after the new mortage crisis? The bank system?

On the other hand, you cannot administrate a modern society without establishing a laicist system. You just can't. A secular culture grows after that, as a result of that. Because first the institutions get laicist, then people and so the culture gets secular. Institutions don't get secular. You just don't take a fundamental concept and modify it according to politcial benefit. It's not some food or an ancient holiday.

Ending the reign of organised religion is a must to achieve civilisation; putting every religious institution under heavy tax -let's see how religious they are without that money- fundamentally secularising public education, making it mandatory, unless there is a serious health issues with the kid. Establish a universal health care system. Making vaccination mandatory. Prohibit every mumbo jumbo imposed as some sort of medicine. Prohibit child pageantry and any kind of bullshit in that line. Just random examples. It's all about building a social state.

If you think these things are an issue of 'freedom', or some agenda to build a 'communist' or 'socialist' system...whatever  -it is hard to keep track on how people use those words, assuming they are not 11 years old- congratulations, you are a right wing moron. 

Supppose that I'm deeply religous and against gay people. (Whatever that means...) I'm producing something or providing a service. And I demand that it is my right not to provide it for gay people. No, it is NOT. Because that is not a right. It's not freedom either.

You do not administrate with religous belief or emotions. There is no such freedom. And if you let that go, 10 years later people start dying in streets, because religious/right wing morons with MDs demanded to exercise their 'right' not to treat anyone they do not like; purple people, nonbelievers, pixies or jedi masters. Yes, selling a wedding cake is exactly the same bullshit because it is the door to this sewege. It's the inch and a mile thing. Because it is fucking human and how people work. Because we used to call those kind of people extremists, fanatics just a decade ago. Now, they are almost the standard issue everywhere.

You wouldn't even realise how it came to that point when it happened. Before the religious gov, abortion was legal in Turkey up to 3 months (roughly 15 years ago) it wasn't an issue, wasn't even talked about and now, while it is legal up to 2 months, it is just on paper. Women get constantly denied their right because doctors make a choice or are afraid to be fired, exiled.

No, it wouldn't be different because it is the USA. Actually, it would be worse considering the scale. It's how the US -and some other western countries- has gone backwards in the last 20 years or so, after the creation of the new boogeyman order of 'Muslims gonna get us!', making constant, absurd comparisons with Middle Eastern countries, creating a false and fake safety, boosting the worst parts of American identity...ignoring whatever is going wrong domestically in real life. It's on sterorids now.   

There is a group here. Religious, educated, don't eat cosher, enjoys alcohol, don't wear ethnic clothes, visits Europe regularly, earns good money, but doesn't skip a prayer...etc. They don't believe half the stories about the last protests or the numbers, events in the pandemic; the last 6 months of the US because they think it is the usual Islamic government propaganda of "America is a bad bad place". How is that for gaining perspective?



Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 02, 2020, 05:17:56 AM
Just to beat a dead horse some more.  If you want Biden to win, it's good to keep this stuff in mind:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/01/opinion/election-forecasts-modeling-flaws.html

Quote
There are two broad ways to model an event: using “fundamentals” — mechanisms that can affect the event — and probabilities — measurements like polls.

For weather, we have fundamentals — advanced science on how atmospheric dynamics work — and years of detailed, day-by-day, even hour-by-hour data from a vast number of observation stations.


For elections, we simply do not have anything near that kind of knowledge or data. While we have some theories on what influences voters, we have no fine-grained understanding of why people vote the way they do, and what polling data we have is relatively sparse.

If I read that there is a 20 percent chance of rain and do not take an umbrella, the odds of rain coming down don’t change. Electoral modeling, by contrast, actively affects the way people behave. --[Me:  This reminds me of quantum physics.  Observing a particle changes it's behaviors.  I'm not sure if this actually happens in physics, but I'm convinced that observing election polls, changes the behavior of voters.]

Instead of refreshing the page to update predictions, people should do the only thing that actually affects the outcome: vote, donate and organize.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 02, 2020, 07:05:24 AM
It was said here that the two research companies who have successfully estimated Trump's win as opposed to the majority back then before the last election are saying Biden. I don't know which ones. It was a long, social media convo.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 02, 2020, 09:27:32 AM
It was said here that the two research companies who have successfully estimated Trump's win as opposed to the majority back then before the last election are saying Biden. I don't know which ones. It was a long, social media convo.

Good summary.  Share their names if you can, so we can Burn Loot Murder ;-)  There is no morality, no legality, other than ... did I get away with it.  Your whole complicated theory of socialism is ... delusion.  It is murdering monkeys all the way down ;-)  Of course if I do it, it is right, but if you do it, it is wrong.  Hypocrisy is the smallest evil people know, we know much greater ones, like genocide.  Kill the men, rape the women, enslave the children ... it is the way.

I don't oppose civilization, I deny it even exists.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 02, 2020, 09:28:51 AM
I don't suppose those social media posters have returned their $1200 Trump-endorsed bribes "stimulus checks" to the government.

Have liberals returned the riot stimulus checks to Soros?

"Oregon Is On The Verge Of Decriminalizing Heroin, Cocaine, And LSD" ... of course they do.  This has been about free drugs since 1965.

DraftKings Election Pool Alert … only Colorado predicts a nationwide Biden win.  They are all high for Biden/MJ there (an old friend lives in Boulder) ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 02, 2020, 10:36:44 PM
I wonder just how "temporary" that new fencing around the White House will turn out to be.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2020, 02:44:17 AM
I wonder just how "temporary" that new fencing around the White House will turn out to be.

Long enough to distract while the Obama admin is taken to Guantanamo?

"Headstones vandalized with pro-Trump slogans in Michigan" ... Jewish headstones ... clearly done by Dems, because Trump is the most Jewish president in history, but most Jews are liberal and easily scared
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 03, 2020, 08:43:00 AM
Trump says, "See?  See what I'm up against?  This vote should be disqualified.  It was placed in the ballot box by an obviously unregistered voter.  Under Biden, perpetrators like this would go free without any jail time."

(https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic01.nyt.com%2Fimages%2F2020%2F11%2F03%2Fus%2Fpolitics%2F03onpolitics-am-newsletter%2F03onpolitics-am-newsletter-articleLarge.jpg&t=1604409823&ymreqid=eccc9188-a17a-1a5c-1c9f-520000018b00&sig=0FXGGNY494VPRezLpC146g--~D)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 03, 2020, 10:31:01 AM
Just one more day until all the political ads are gone. And hopefully, one more day until Trump knows he's fired. Still have to wait until March for him to actually be gone, though...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2020, 10:50:50 AM
Just one more day until all the political ads are gone. And hopefully, one more day until Trump knows he's fired. Still have to wait until March for him to actually be gone, though...

Politics was every two years.  Since CNN invented 24x7 news (under N Vietnamese agent Jane Fonda) ... it is politics every damn day.  Since we no longer accept the results of elections, the pre-election violence will continue into post-election violence.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2020, 10:51:35 AM
Trump says, "See?  See what I'm up against?  This vote should be disqualified.  It was placed in the ballot box by an obviously unregistered voter.  Under Biden, perpetrators like this would go free without any jail time."

(https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic01.nyt.com%2Fimages%2F2020%2F11%2F03%2Fus%2Fpolitics%2F03onpolitics-am-newsletter%2F03onpolitics-am-newsletter-articleLarge.jpg&t=1604409823&ymreqid=eccc9188-a17a-1a5c-1c9f-520000018b00&sig=0FXGGNY494VPRezLpC146g--~D)

Democrats corrupting their own children ... call Hunter now!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 03, 2020, 11:18:26 AM
(https://preview.redd.it/5at3ske231x51.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=442f8a0885c44d770c79d56d60d279c892bf24ae)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 03, 2020, 11:28:02 AM
Oh...Did that happen before in any election?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 03, 2020, 11:51:27 AM
Oh...Did that happen before in any election?
Did the sitting president place barricades around the White House and turn it into some sort of bunker?

No, (https://www.washingtonian.com/2014/09/22/white-house-security-updates-in-the-past-century/) not really. (https://www.whitehousehistory.org/press-room/press-timelines/history-of-the-white-house-fence)

White House after the Secret Service arrests a man and finds a rifle in his car (in 2014):

(https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/83f8ca2/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2048x1373+0+0/resize/840x563!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F75%2Fbb%2Fc092c04a80f283c545784912530c%2Fla-na-secret-service-arrest-man-20141119-001)

White House when King Orange is worried about his electioneering chances:

(https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/65c/7d6/87ba980e6045b97f9fca6cebd3ddfc3322-white-house.rhorizontal.w700.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2020, 11:55:39 AM
Marxists would kill millions if they weren't cucked Trots.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 03, 2020, 01:14:25 PM
Is this the People vs. Trump thread?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 03, 2020, 02:00:14 PM
Oh...Did that happen before in any election?

You gotta give it to the man...

He finally managed to build a wall.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 03, 2020, 02:03:22 PM
It's an accomplishment. The people there are just bystanders looking at his accomplishment. And the people from everywhere are looking at the photograph of his accomplishment. His accomplishment is in front of all people, positioned against them because that's why it is there.

I hope everyone realises the importance of that photograph. That's not just a historical shot. It's a kind of an 'angle' no device is able to produce. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 03, 2020, 02:11:24 PM
Trump is acting like a Drama Queen.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 03, 2020, 02:18:07 PM
Trump is acting like a Drama Queen.
The poor young Trump may have had 'bone spurs' all through the Vietnam War. That's tough.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 03, 2020, 02:25:31 PM
Whatever side wins, there are going to be riots.

I'll be asleep when the results get in. Best of luck, Americans.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 03, 2020, 02:30:33 PM
When the going gets tough, Trump pays someone to make it all better, and then sues in court so as to avoid actually paying.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 03, 2020, 03:19:59 PM
I'm going to bed too. Good luck. Hope nothing bad will happen afterwards.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PopeyesPappy on November 03, 2020, 04:08:21 PM
Whatever side wins, there are going to be riots.

I'll be asleep when the results get in. Best of luck, Americans.

We may not know the results of this election for weeks. Months if the courts get involved. The 2000 election wasn't settled until December 12th. This one could take longer if it is close.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2020, 04:15:05 PM
The poor young Trump may have had 'bone spurs' all through the Vietnam War. That's tough.

Yes, Bill Clinton was a war hero too.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2020, 04:16:10 PM
Is this the People vs. Trump thread?

Deplorables don't count as people.  Non-Marxists count as state enemies ;-)

Correct about legal action.  Every single vote deserves a $1,000,000 court action.  The money made by lawyers will be epic!!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 03, 2020, 04:25:20 PM
I'm going to bed too. Good luck. Hope nothing bad will happen afterwards.
I don't think anything will.  Eventually, there will be a revolution, but that's down the road yet. <knocks on wood>
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 03, 2020, 04:26:24 PM
So you volunteered for Vietnam?  For Iraq?  Not saying you had no military experience.
I joined the Army as a nurse stationed at Fort Jackson, SC where we actually had to handle some leprosy cases. When I got out I knew I never wanted to be in medicine again and went for engineering. And the difference is I don't bad mouth actual war heroes like that ass hat Trump does. I don't see how anyone in a military family would vote for that orange wuss.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2020, 04:32:03 PM
I joined the Army as a nurse stationed at Fort Jackson, SC where we actually had to handle some leprosy cases. When I got out I knew I never wanted to be in medicine again and went for engineering. And the difference is I don't bad mouth actual war heroes like that ass hat Trump does. I don't see how anyone in a military family would vote for that orange wuss.

I regretted my post and edited it.  I was 22 years as a contractor with military medicine admin.

Yes, all US military support the CCP.  It is the way ;-)

Hitler got the Iron Cross.  So heroism is a bit complicated.  Lenin and Stalin never served.  I know of no Leftist (intellectual) who ever did.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2020, 04:33:03 PM
I don't think anything will.  Eventually, there will be a revolution, but that's down the road yet. <knocks on wood>

Yes, when the children rise up (Children's Crusade) and kill all the adults.  Children are the most oppressed minority ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 03, 2020, 05:35:41 PM
Before the poll results and/or latest scandal buries it:

(https://media12.s-nbcnews.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Video/202010/n_hayes_votersupression_201029_1920x1080.nbcnews-fp-1024-512.jpg)

Both NC and Pennsylvania will accept ballots for several days after Election Day, against GOP wishes (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/28/us/supreme-court-pennsylvania-north-carolina-absentee-ballots.html)

(https://preview.redd.it/framfnomztw51.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=f6f8794ef7965b97654cde3e955dd50a63ba761c)

Voter suppression is a sign of weakness.  It's a sign that the people don't support your regime.  It's a betrayal of the Republic through attacking one of its most hallowed institutions.  And finally, it's also a sign of fear.

The American people are speaking through their votes.  The GOP tried to silence their voices.  Whatever happens today, that will be bitterly remembered.  And the next time the GOP asks for votes (and the time after that and the time after that), they will be reminded of their disloyalty as their opponents' votes surge.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2020, 07:34:05 PM
Voter suppression is "all American".  But no worry, as long as we don't murder each other.  Supporting criminals and treason, is jumping the shark.  Either both parties drop the criminality and treason, or they must both be eliminated.

Had my snifter of Grand Marnier ... time for bed ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 03, 2020, 08:39:28 PM
Had my snifter of Grand Marnier ... time for bed ;-)
Gonna sip a shot of Jamison straight up, hope for peace and work on our ancestry since it seems that an EU passport is a possibility and perhaps travel will once again be a reality late '21 or sometime in '22.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 03, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
I joined the Army as a nurse stationed at Fort Jackson, SC where we actually had to handle some leprosy cases. When I got out I knew I never wanted to be in medicine again and went for engineering. And the difference is I don't bad mouth actual war heroes like that ass hat Trump does. I don't see how anyone in a military family would vote for that orange wuss.

Many are single-issue voters. All they care about is abortion. They don't realize that abortion has been on a downward trend since Row v. Wade, consistently no matter which side was in power, nor do they care if you tell them that. They also don't care that Republicans have had the majority in the Supreme Court multiple times and still chose to follow the precedent set before them. They just want their Pro-Lifers in office. Nothing else matters.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 03, 2020, 09:25:29 PM
Whatever side wins, there are going to be riots.

I'll be asleep when the results get in. Best of luck, Americans.

I don't agree. If the Right loses, there are certain groups who may commit violence on Trump's behalf, but most Conservatives will just whine about it on Facebook. If the Left loses, they'll do the same thing they did last time Trump won. They will protest, not riot.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 03, 2020, 09:59:14 PM
So far, it looks like Trump and the Republicans are sweeping up the votes.  One graph I saw showed Biden ahead on electoral votes, but I think that is based on projected votes.  Actual votes so far don't seem to follow the projection.  Again this year, polls and projections don't seem to be predicting much.  But it's early.  I'm streaming this and reminded why I got rid of my TV.  Breathless fast talking teams of talking heads are annoying, and I don't think I'm going to watch this into the wee hours of the night.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 03, 2020, 10:11:42 PM
Not encouraging so far.  But be patient (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/beware-blue-mirage-red-mirage-election-night-n1245925) and wait for all the votes to come in.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 04, 2020, 01:41:53 AM
I don't agree. If the Right loses, there are certain groups who may commit violence on Trump's behalf, but most Conservatives will just whine about it on Facebook.

But that's the thing. What I'm afraid is that the other side might not watch it calmly. In fact, even they win, Conservatives could act violently. Guys, be safe.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 04, 2020, 02:36:42 AM
Why is everything so familiar. We had the same thing in the local elections. The obvious party made a victory speech before the results were in. It was very close. Then re-election, re-count and they have lost.

What is he doing? Is it that certain? This alone would cause violence if he loses in the end because all those groups are now brainwashed with a Trump Victory. Like instant soup.

What is going on?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 04, 2020, 02:48:01 AM
At 2:30 it looks like Trump has it in the bag.  I've turned to the silent AP map to get away from the annoying chatter, and all that's left where Biden has a chance is Nevada and Arizona and that's only 17 electoral votes.  Maine is in contention, but even if he gets all 4 of Maine's votes (not a given), he won't get 270.  Everything else leans toward Trump.

The New York Times say it could be days counting the mail in votes in the upper midwest states that are going to Trump, but I think they just want to draw out the drama.  If Trump is already dominating Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin, it seems like the votes already in are a better sampling than most polls. Granted those votes still need to be counted if the courts allow it, and I suppose Biden could prevail, but I don't think he will.

Biden is not a strong candidate, although apparently popular among many Democrats, but I still thought he had a chance against Trump.  A record breaking turnout also draws out the conservatives, not just Democrats as we have been taught to believe.  And Trump not only resonates with conservatives, he also delivers to them more than any president I can remember.

The Associated Press has not called it yet, but I think the writing is on the wall.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on November 04, 2020, 04:26:46 AM
I'm scared and hurt of the sheer number of votes in favor of Trump and the republicans.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 04, 2020, 04:30:04 AM
I was expecting a Trump victory. But being right does nothing to lift my spirits.

At least: think of the mêmes.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 04, 2020, 05:42:33 AM
My brother's American gf has resigned her phone, due to the stress as the votes are being counted.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 04, 2020, 05:58:50 AM
I woke up and checked my investments first, saw they were flat, market confused, and so I knew the election was down to the wire. I think perhaps polling hurts the party that is ahead at the time by cooling down their voters and by energizing the lagging party. And of course Trump declared victory too early and is proclaiming 'fraud' as expected. However right now it doesn't look all that good for Biden and it seems congress will remain as b4 and the only blue wave will be those gasping for air in emergency rooms.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 04, 2020, 07:09:09 AM
This mornings NYT:

Quote
Joe Biden is now the favorite to win the presidency, and Republicans are favored to keep Senate control

https://mail.yahoo.com/b/folders/1/messages/AKFBfvEMpDiIX6KWGgMNQKw4Toc?.src=ym&reason=unsupported_browser&folderType=INBOX&showImages=true&offset=0&domain=nytimes.com



Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 04, 2020, 07:14:13 AM
The above is speculation.  I put as much stock in it as I do my own speculations or those polls that came before.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 04, 2020, 08:33:51 AM
I'm scared and hurt of the sheer number of votes in favor of Trump and the republicans.

I hope you can get over the fact that you are the only you, and the rest of us aren't you, though in politics birds of a feather flock together.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 04, 2020, 08:35:34 AM
I was expecting a Trump victory. But being right does nothing to lift my spirits.

At least: think of the mêmes.

Not true.  2020 is a repeat of 2000 and 2016. ... surprise, suprise.  Utopia hasn't arrived, and never will.  Regressives and Progressives ignore human nature and human history.  America was a mess, and remains a mess the morning after.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 04, 2020, 08:36:56 AM
I woke up and checked my investments first, saw they were flat, market confused, and so I knew the election was down to the wire. I think perhaps polling hurts the party that is ahead at the time by cooling down their voters and by energizing the lagging party. And of course Trump declared victory too early and is proclaiming 'fraud' as expected. However right now it doesn't look all that good for Biden and it seems congress will remain as b4 and the only blue wave will be those gasping for air in emergency rooms.

Perfect for the markets.  A Blue Wave or Red Wave bet was a sucker bet.  The markets flourish on volatility, not long term trends.  The Great Reset aka worldwide electronic slavery to the Elite.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 04, 2020, 08:39:01 AM
But that's the thing. What I'm afraid is that the other side might not watch it calmly. In fact, even they win, Conservatives could act violently. Guys, be safe.

"Conservatives bad, liberals good" - Og ... humans are still in the "stoned" age.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 04, 2020, 08:39:51 AM
Gonna sip a shot of Jamison straight up, hope for peace and work on our ancestry since it seems that an EU passport is a possibility and perhaps travel will once again be a reality late '21 or sometime in '22.

Only if you get the "human is property" pass they are devising.  Lysenkoism, with that "political" pass you can be on an airplane, coughing up Ebola and still be OK.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 04, 2020, 08:55:47 AM
Seriously, fuck this country and the people who think Trump's behavior has been anything resembling acceptable. After all the shit he said and did, this should have been a landslide in Biden's favor.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on November 04, 2020, 09:09:45 AM
The people who were afraid to go the poles in person are having their votes counted now. T.rump couldn't stop that. He will try to  upset it, and that's the real test of our system right now.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 04, 2020, 09:31:39 AM
So...a lot to unpack about this election while I'm calm enough to type it out.

For starters, the polling is deeply flawed.  No doubt about that.  I'm decisively in the wrong about polling. 
Whoever was skeptical about the polls going into this election was absolutely right.

I hooked my ship up to 538 and boy, were those forecasts incorrect.  538 gave Biden a 90% chance of winning.  The Economist gave Biden a whopping 97% chance of winning.  Biden was up 8 points nationally - a steady and sustained lead since May.  He polled better in much of the battleground states as well - up 5 points in Pennsylvania, 8 points in Michigan, 8 points in Wisconsin, 9 points in Minnesota.  So even if the polls are off by 3-4 points, that's still a Biden lead.  Apparently not!

So riddle me this:
*  Record-breaking turnout (which tends to favor the Dems)
*  Independent voters favor the Dems
*  Historically unpopular incumbent
*  Massive unemployment (which tends to favor the challenger)
*  Horrific crisis that's people's #1 concern and the incumbent says it's no big deal, goes golfing, hosts superspreader events, praises demon sperm lady, gets sick himself, then blames China.  I mean FFS people...
* Incumbent reportedly slipping with some of his demographics
* Challenger leads in the polls

Election Night result: (Probable) Incumbent victory

How the hell does that happen?  If anyone has a guess, lay it on me.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 04, 2020, 09:46:24 AM
Why is everything so familiar. We had the same thing in the local elections. The obvious party made a victory speech before the results were in. It was very close. Then re-election, re-count and they have lost.

What is he doing? Is it that certain? This alone would cause violence if he loses in the end because all those groups are now brainwashed with a Trump Victory. Like instant soup.

What is going on?
I have absolutely no idea, and that scares me.

This is like The Mule in the Foundation Series, except with no Second Foundation to bail us out.  Today, Hari Seldon's hologram is turning on and he's currently telling us to transition our economy away from fossil fuels, repair our strained relationships with our allies, watch out for an incoming wave of knuckle-dragging democratic backsliding, and resist authoritarian "strongmen" who might try to claw their way to power.

I can safely say that it is every bit as shocking and disheartening in real life as it was in the books.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 04, 2020, 10:31:34 AM
One final thing, all the ballots aren't in yet, and it's not a done deal till they are:

https://twitter.com/onikasgivenchy/status/1323857811734933504
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on November 04, 2020, 12:05:24 PM
I hate the red states
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 04, 2020, 01:01:47 PM
I hate the red states
Some of the red states are getting bluer and vice versa.  NC, Georgia, Arizona are all toss-ups.  Meanwhile, the Great Lakes states plus Pennsylvania are no longer reliably blue.

It's not too late to pull an India (circa 1947) and breakup into the United States of Canada and Jesusland.  Educated southerners could move north and the inverse could move south.  Both parties are dying to run a simple experiment: does a Western european-style democracy or a theocratic state (with fascist undertones) fare better in the world?  We could settle that question once and for all.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 04, 2020, 02:35:19 PM
I hate the red states

China can have the blue states ;-)

Half of America hated the other half, in 1860.  They still do, but they can move around ... because cars.  The British and French Empires were tempted to intervene on behalf of the Democrats.  The Russian Empire prevented that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 04, 2020, 02:35:57 PM
Meanwhile in the Middle East...Turkish Trump supporters and Biden supporters here have been insulting, cussing and cursing each other the whole day. It's disgusting. Also the fascist group banned by the French a few days ago has been supporting Trump very loudly and moronically considering the slogans, wtf? They sound like they want to adopt him.

I wouldn't be surprised if violence broke out. Oh everything is so stupid.

 

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 04, 2020, 02:37:20 PM
Meanwhile in the Middle East...Trump supporters and Biden supporters here have been insulting, cussing and cursing each other the whole day. It's disgusting. Also the fascist group banned by the French a few days ago has been supporting Trump very loudly and moronically considering the slogans, wtf? They sound like they want to adopt him.

I wouldn't be surprised if violence broke out. Oh everything is so stupid.

That isn't nothing compared to how much America hates non-American countries ;-)  There is a reason why we were isolationist in 1940.  I am odd man out on that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 04, 2020, 03:08:15 PM
Meanwhile in the Middle East...Turkish Trump supporters and Biden supporters here have been insulting, cussing and cursing each other the whole day. It's disgusting. Also the fascist group banned by the French a few days ago has been supporting Trump very loudly and moronically considering the slogans, wtf? They sound like they want to adopt him.

I wouldn't be surprised if violence broke out. Oh everything is so stupid.

The world of stupid
Man kills man who kills again
The ride never ends
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 04, 2020, 03:42:14 PM
I just had to cash out and sell some shares today (very unexpectedly.)  Nothing makes sense anymore.
(https://i.ibb.co/XYvQKZG/qvsxofhmb8x51.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 04, 2020, 05:04:02 PM
The world of stupid
Man kills man who kills again
The ride never ends

Do you morally judge cats and dogs?

The longer it takes ... particularly if the SCOTUS has to judge it, as in 2000, the higher stocks will go.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 04, 2020, 05:08:58 PM
Meanwhile in the Middle East...Turkish Trump supporters and Biden supporters here have been insulting, cussing and cursing each other the whole day.
Is...is that a thing?  I've been so preoccupied with US politics that you could tell me that all of South America got swallowed up by the sea and I'd probably take your word for it.  Also, 3 hours sleep.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 04, 2020, 05:18:47 PM
Well having gotten my predictions all wrong, all I can say is this is a Hell of a ride.  And after making a big deal about going to bed, I couldn't sleep.  I think you got more than I did.  I was up making coffee before midnight.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 04, 2020, 05:21:41 PM
Is...is that a thing?  I've been so preoccupied with US politics that you could tell me that all of South America got swallowed up by the sea and I'd probably take your word for it.  Also, 3 hours sleep.

It's real. Most of the people are watching the US elections and fighting about it here. Well, that can't be called a discussion.  Biden doesn't have real supporters, it is more like Trump supporters and people against Trump and his supporters.

So I didn't really know what to say to the pic you have posted -or SGOS's question- lol. Trump vs People? It's so weird, I don't know what to think about anything.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 04, 2020, 05:23:41 PM
Hang in there.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 04, 2020, 05:28:03 PM
Trump is petitioning the court to stop the ballot counting in Michigan?  This is crazy.  Just stop counting before Biden gets ahead.  The scary thing is I'm never surprised by some of the shit the courts do:  "Sure, sure.  We'll halt the ballot counting.  It's the only fair thing to do for you, Mr. Trump."  I think Trump wants a riot.  More chaos.  More excitement.  More fodder for an SNL skit.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 04, 2020, 05:45:24 PM
Just like 2000, hang all the Chads.  I feel sorry for those guys ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 04, 2020, 06:20:56 PM
Trump is petitioning the court to stop the ballot counting in Michigan?  This is crazy.  Just stop counting before Biden gets ahead.  The scary thing is I'm never surprised by some of the shit the courts do:  "Sure, sure.  We'll halt the ballot counting.  It's the only fair thing to do for you, Mr. Trump."  I think Trump wants a riot.  More chaos.  More excitement.  More fodder for an SNL skit.
That could be a good thing.  It means Trump thinks the remaining votes are not in his favor, which is good news for Biden.  And that sort of disenfranchisement would surely result in a lengthy legal battle and that sort of power grabbing behavior would surely de-legitimize Trump.

That sounds better in my head, where idealism isn't trampled over by goosestepping battalions of cultists and enablers and forgotten in a week.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 04, 2020, 07:25:50 PM
It feels like, as it happened with the first one, he doesn't actually expect to win but just been acting around from the beginning.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 05, 2020, 01:41:52 AM
How the hell does that happen?  If anyone has a guess, lay it on me.
Been trying to sort that one out myself.  Polling isn't an exact science, but it is a science.  I have heard anecdotal evidence that Republicans are less likely to respond to a pollster (and one idiot on another forum I'm on who proudly admits he deliberately lies to pollsters) but can that really be widespread enough for this kind of variance?

It may be a phenomenon with Trump's cult of personality and might disappear if (I'm not confident in the GOP enough to say 'when', especially when the early buzz about who they might run in 2024 is Tucker Carlson) they run a more normal candidate again.

Republican politicians need accurate poll numbers too, so this isn't just something they can sit back and enjoy.  Either the pollsters will find the systemic flaw, or it'll go away when Trump does, and they don't want to be blindsided by assuming there's a hidden five point swing in their favor and finding out there isn't anymore.

Mostly I think it's a function of Trump's cult of personality and the mindless devotion of his base, and this is a danger sign for the GOP in the future, because they don't really have another Trump waiting in the wings who whips up the same levels of religious-type fervor.  If (when, preferably) he loses this year, and when (not if) the party elders try to reassert control, he very well might threaten to take his followers and set up Trump: The Party.

Whither the GOP then?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 05, 2020, 01:59:28 AM
News is a bit dodgy here, and not up to date. But is it true that Biden took Michigan? And if he takes Nevada, with 6 representatives, does he win?
The news as far as I can see it says he has 264 out of the needed 270. And he's leading be it marginally, in Nevada.
I don't want to get my hopes up just to get them dashed again.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 05, 2020, 05:37:35 AM
News is a bit dodgy here, and not up to date. But is it true that Biden took Michigan? And if he takes Nevada, with 6 representatives, does he win?
The news as far as I can see it says he has 264 out of the needed 270. And he's leading be it marginally, in Nevada.
I don't want to get my hopes up just to get them dashed again.
That's what I read.  However, I'm cautious about this because I've read headlines that Biden won Michigan, Wisconsin, and Arizona before he actually won them.  Yesterday, I even got a message from the Democratic Party saying Biden had won the election, so there's a lot of unofficial bullshit out there.  Trump declared he won the election two days ago, and that made it to the headlines too.  The Associated Press does call winners before all votes are counted, but they are pretty fussy about the way they do it. Still, they can make mistakes.  I'm cautiously, very cautiously, optimistic that Biden could win the election at this point.  Two days ago, I thought Trump had it in the bag.  Now it's doubtful.

But if Biden wins Wisconsin, Arizona, and Nevada, he "wins" is it's pretty much what I'm reading now.  Yesterday, the source I follow had him as "won" Arizona, but all this stuff is constantly changing, it could change in the time it takes to post.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 05, 2020, 05:44:12 AM
...
How the hell does that happen?  If anyone has a guess, lay it on me.

From what I have read, there isn't consensus at this point why so many polls were off. From the New York Times:

Not every pollster fared poorly. Ann Selzer, long considered one of the top pollsters in the country, released a poll with The Des Moines Register days before the election showing Mr. Trump opening up a seven-point lead in Iowa; that appears to be in line with the actual result thus far.

In an interview, Ms. Selzer said that this election season she had stuck to her usual process, which involves avoiding assumptions that one year’s electorate will resemble those of previous years. “Our method is designed for our data to reveal to us what is happening with the electorate,” she said. “There are some that will weight their data taking into account many things — past election voting, what the turnout was, things from the past in order to project into the future. I call that polling backwards, and I don’t do it.”
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 05, 2020, 06:13:07 AM
Quote
How the hell does that happen?  If anyone has a guess, lay it on me.
It's easy to overthink this, but my first thought is that Trump has a very strong and passionate following.  While I can't understand why, it's easy to see that he does.  A record turnout probably helps Democrats, but it does not lessen Trump's staggering, if un-explainable popularity.  Biden does not have this sort of energy behind him.  Many Democrats and most disaffected liberals are voting for him mostly because he's not Trump.  This is not the kind of energy that leads to an overwhelming rout in an election.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 05, 2020, 09:44:34 AM
News is a bit dodgy here, and not up to date. But is it true that Biden took Michigan? And if he takes Nevada, with 6 representatives, does he win?
The news as far as I can see it says he has 264 out of the needed 270. And he's leading be it marginally, in Nevada.
I don't want to get my hopes up just to get them dashed again.

Probably, Biden has 50.6 % ... not that elections matter anymore or ever did.  But several states are contested, so it is unlikely either will get over 270 until the SCOTUS decides.   Which means whatever the CIA has decided.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 05, 2020, 10:17:13 AM
That's what I read.  However, I'm cautious about this because I've read headlines that Biden won Michigan, Wisconsin, and Arizona before he actually won them.  Yesterday, I even got a message from the Democratic Party saying Biden had won the election, so there's a lot of unofficial bullshit out there.  Trump declared he won the election two days ago, and that made it to the headlines too.  The Associated Press does call winners before all votes are counted, but they are pretty fussy about the way they do it. Still, they can make mistakes.  I'm cautiously, very cautiously, optimistic that Biden could win the election at this point.  Two days ago, I thought Trump had it in the bag.  Now it's doubtful.

But if Biden wins Wisconsin, Arizona, and Nevada, he "wins" is it's pretty much what I'm reading now.  Yesterday, the source I follow had him as "won" Arizona, but all this stuff is constantly changing, it could change in the time it takes to post.
Fox, the AP and the BBC have called Arizona for Biden, and Fox's call prompting a screaming purple fit over the phone at Rupert Murdoch by the Mango Mussolini (https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/05/donald-trump-screamed-at-rupert-murdoch-over-fox-election-report-13540613/); Wisconsin and Michigan have been called for Biden by the AP.  At this point, any of Nevada, Pennsylvania or Georgia will seal the deal; Biden currently leads in Nevada, and is rapidly closing the gap in both PA and GA, though whether that's going to be enough remains to be seen.  So of course Lord Dampnut's legal team is demanding they stop the count while he's still ahead, because voting is only a right if you vote for who he wants.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 05, 2020, 10:31:57 AM
Mango Mussolini, LOL.  That is good. Tangerine Idi Amin was another that made me chuckle. There is a whole reddit just for such a thing. Dоиаld тгцмр, LOL. Sorry, I obviously have too much free time lately.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TrumpNicknames/
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 05, 2020, 10:38:27 AM
Some people have an obsession about Russia.  Probably they want Putin to "do" them.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 05, 2020, 10:46:45 AM
Biden ... is rapidly closing the gap in both PA and GA
I heard that on NPR this morning.  Two days ago, I thought both those states were forgone conclusions for Trump. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 05, 2020, 10:58:38 AM
Fox, the AP and the BBC have called Arizona for Biden
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with that news, but I'm looking at the New York Times map and it has Biden with a ~2% lead in Arizona with only 86% of the results.  Does AP have more recent info?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 05, 2020, 11:11:48 AM
A record turnout probably helps Democrats, but it does not lessen Trump's staggering, if un-explainable popularity.
But it should.  It really should.

Let's assume that everyone who voted for Trump in 2016 is back at the same trough in 2020.  Can't fix stupid.

There were a TON of people who voted in 2020 who didn't vote in 2016.  They didn't drink the Trump flavor aid.  And if that vote accurately reflects the presidential approval/disapproval polls, that's enough to crush Trump in the battleground states, states that he just barely won in 2016.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 05, 2020, 12:46:29 PM
I doubt I'll believe the election result until I see who gets inaugurated in January.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 05, 2020, 12:53:54 PM
Some people have an obsession about Russia.  Probably they want Putin to "do" them.
Trump would like that. Also, some people are idiots too. And some are not as smart as that. It's OK because they don't even know it!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 05, 2020, 01:10:14 PM
Mango Mussolini, LOL.  That is good. Tangerine Idi Amin was another that made me chuckle. There is a whole reddit just for such a thing. Dоиаld тгцмр, LOL. Sorry, I obviously have too much free time lately.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TrumpNicknames/

President Tweety😊
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 05, 2020, 01:36:44 PM
Strike and stirke and strike and strike and strik x 100 till you have victory...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1324175651515949056
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 05, 2020, 01:38:02 PM
But it should.  It really should.

Let's assume that everyone who voted for Trump in 2016 is back at the same trough in 2020.  Can't fix stupid.

There were a TON of people who voted in 2020 who didn't vote in 2016.  They didn't drink the Trump flavor aid.  And if that vote accurately reflects the presidential approval/disapproval polls, that's enough to crush Trump in the battleground states, states that he just barely won in 2016.
I actually made a half ass comparison by comparing Biden numbers to Trump popularity.  They are two different things that don't equate.  So what did I really mean?  First, what we actually do know is that it was a record turnout and both parties managed to get roughly equal numbers to the polls. That's where my facts end.

So the record turnout can only be half accounted for by the addition of lazy Democrats (not voting thinking Clinton was sure to win) and disaffected liberals (who have given up on the Democratic Party).  I think that's our assumption, and I believe Trump's behavior was abhorrent enough to warrant that assumption.  There could be other assumptions that work better.

So the remaining question is what woke up the half interested Republicans and got them to the polls this time?  The only thing I can think of is increased popularity of Trump.  Why?  That's a hard question, but we do know Republicans and potential Republicans were motivated.  And the "why" question can more accurately be answered by his constituents.  It's also possible that lazy Republicans and potential non-voting Republicans read the coming blue wave correctly and responded to it.  But I favor the popularity theory.  I think he did a lot for Republicans.  He woke up elements of our society and changed the country dramatically, not necessarily in what I consider good ways, but he made changes, and that in itself is extraordinary for a president IMO.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 05, 2020, 01:55:49 PM
So the remaining question is what woke up the half interested Republicans and got them to the polls this time?  The only thing I can think of is increased popularity of Trump.  Why?  That's a hard question, but we do know Republicans and potential Republicans were motivated.  And the "why" question can more accurately be answered by his constituents.  It's also possible that lazy Republicans and potential non-voting Republicans read the coming blue wave correctly and responded to it.  But I favor the popularity theory.  I think he did a lot for Republicans.  He woke up elements of our society and changed the country dramatically, not necessarily in what I consider good ways, but he made changes, and that in itself is extraordinary for a president IMO.
Trump certainly took over the Republican Party (9 out of 10 support) and Trump certainly did his all to dominate the airwaves and connect with Republicans - through parasocial twitter relationships and through nonstop rallies, even during the pandemic (RIP Herman Cain).  Trump doesn't so much have constituents as he does adoring fans.  Republicans and Democrats certainly differ there.

But even if every conservative in the US is pro-Trump (35-40% of the US, iirc), that's still not enough to account for the election results.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 05, 2020, 02:04:22 PM
Okay, I found data that makes the election results make sense (https://news.gallup.com/poll/275792/remained-center-right-ideologically-2019.aspx).  Though it's from polls (I wish I could quit you)

(https://cdn.mrctv.org/files/images/gp1_0.png)

Look familiar?

Bonus map:
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 05, 2020, 02:09:02 PM
Strike and stirke and strike and strike and strik x 100 till you have victory...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1324175651515949056
https://twitter.com/Soapmoine/status/1324286193106898944

Actually pretty entertaining if you ignore what she's supporting.  I wish more people reacted like that guy in the back instead of encouraging this sort of cultish magical thinking.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 05, 2020, 02:18:37 PM
Okay, I found data that makes the election results make sense (https://news.gallup.com/poll/275792/remained-center-right-ideologically-2019.aspx).  Though it's from polls (I wish I could quit you)

(https://cdn.mrctv.org/files/images/gp1_0.png)

Look familiar?

Bonus map:
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

I legit can't read that map. I can't see the difference in color between 'More conservative than average' and 'about average'.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 05, 2020, 02:43:28 PM
https://twitter.com/Soapmoine/status/1324286193106898944

Actually pretty entertaining if you ignore what she's supporting.  I wish more people reacted like that guy in the back instead of encouraging this sort of cultish magical thinking.

Yeah...but isn't this better? E: Hydra, apparently, he is her son...LOL

https://twitter.com/i/status/1324299839140605953/video/1


 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 05, 2020, 03:07:43 PM
But even if every conservative in the US is pro-Trump (35-40% of the US, iirc), that's still not enough to account for the election results.
It that percentage cannot account for Trump Support, then I don't know where else that support comes from.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 05, 2020, 03:54:58 PM
It that percentage cannot account for Trump Support, then I don't know where else that support comes from.
Low-information voters?  Even then, I don't see how anyone who's been through the last 4 years could possibly want seconds.  Apparently, they do though.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 05, 2020, 04:02:10 PM
I legit can't read that map. I can't see the difference in color between 'More conservative than average' and 'about average'.
You might have some form of color blindness where pink is indistinguishable from gray.  Or a bad screen.

Pink (more conservative than normal): Ohio, Kentucky, North Carolina, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona
Gray (about average): Pennsylvania, Virginia, Florida, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, Colorado, Nevada
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 05, 2020, 04:17:20 PM
You might have some form of color blindness where pink is indistinguishable from gray.  Or a bad screen.

Pink (more conservative than normal): Ohio, Kentucky, North Carolina, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona
Gray (about average): Pennsylvania, Virginia, Florida, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, Colorado, Nevada

Both. I cn tell the difference on my phone, I can see now.
But I do have daltonisme.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 05, 2020, 06:34:01 PM
(https://scontent.fhou1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/123421141_10157986287821275_615843741092209020_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=fM_rsEqoHEEAX_czm6f&_nc_ht=scontent.fhou1-1.fna&oh=c4b2442d394408b9ca4fa09ea6d45206&oe=5FCA9F13)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 05, 2020, 06:39:17 PM
Both. I cn tell the difference on my phone, I can see now.
But I do have daltonisme.
I have what has been termed red/green color blindness.  It's not that I can't tell colors, for I can.  Just don't ask me to see the same color as you do.  I find that red and brown are near impossible to tell apart.  I flunked coloring in the 2nd grade because I was always coloring the trunk of trees red and the leaves brown.  I also can mix up red and green and blue.  When we were first married, my wife would say something like--did you like that blue shirt that guy was wearing?, and I'd say--what blue shirt???  And those color tests with bubbles of various sizes in which one is supposed to see numbers appearing--those are all constructed just to fuck me over.  Could never see any numbers.  Didn't keep me out of the Army tho. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 05, 2020, 07:01:16 PM
Trump's in the middle of a statement right now, trying to declare himself the winner. He's using very disturbing language. He says he wins with the "legal" votes, and says the votes that favor Biden are "illegal." If he had a real case, he'd go to the courts, not throwing a fit on national TV. If you're an American citizen, you should be very disturbed by this kind of behavior.

Now he's threatening to take this to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court which he has placed three people in, two positions of which he stole. Our democracy is being threatened before our eyes.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 05, 2020, 07:21:21 PM
This isn't a surprise, of course. He's been setting up this moment for months. Casting doubt in mail-in votes, declaring them fraudulent by nature. He couldn't even accept that he lost the popular vote in 2016. He was convinced the votes that brought Hillary ahead of Trump in the popular vote, which didn't even matter anyway, were fraudulent. He couldn't even concede that point. He was never going to accept any result except for his victory. He's going to try to take this to the Supreme Court, his cronies there will support him, and our democracy will be destroyed, if things continue as they do now.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 05, 2020, 07:25:43 PM
I guess I vastly underestimated the nature of mail in Ballots.  I didn't realize how the representation of Democrats would be so dramatically skewed by this form of voting.  Maybe a little, but not enough to matter.

Trump's in the middle of a statement right now, trying to declare himself the winner. He's using very disturbing language. He says he wins with the "legal" votes, and says the votes that favor Biden are "illegal." If he had a real case, he'd go to the courts, not throwing a fit on national TV. If you're an American citizen, you should be very disturbed by this kind of behavior.

Now he's threatening to take this to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court which he has placed three people in, two positions of which he stole. Our democracy is being threatened before our eyes.
I hope I can find a video of that.

I asked a friend the other day if he may have thought Trump might be getting progressively more unhinged in the last few months.  He said he absolutely noticed that.  I was wondering if it was just me.  SNL is going to be a must watch this weekend.  What a week, a totally insane week.  I mean 'insane' as in, "I feel like I'm living in an asylum, and the leader of the place is nuttier than the inmates.  Will things ever be normal again?"
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 05, 2020, 07:29:53 PM
Trump has set a disgusting new standard for Republicans. I don't see things going back to normal when nearly half of the country thinks Trump's behavior in these four years have been anything less than disgraceful. Things are about to get messy. Don't be surprised if Trump's loyal cronies start committing acts of terrorism in his name.

"Stand back and stand by."

All he has to do is give the order.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 05, 2020, 07:42:33 PM
I hope I can find a video of that.

Here you go. Skip to 26:25.

https://youtu.be/CyiOD3cirgE?t=1585
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 05, 2020, 08:16:05 PM
Worst case ... either the Trump crime family rubs out the Clinton/Biden etc crime families, or Michael Corleone will have to hide out in Sicily for awhile.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 05, 2020, 08:58:20 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/hfru5qD.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 05, 2020, 10:00:03 PM
I heard that on NPR this morning.  Two days ago, I thought both those states were forgone conclusions for Trump.
As of 21.30ET, the gap in Georgia is 1900 votes with about 50,000 left to count.  in PA it's 42,000 with about 400,000 left to count.  He needs to capture 55% of the remaining votes in Pennsylvania... and they're counting the mail-in ballots which heavily lean Democratic.  In Georgia, he only needs to outpace 52% of the remaining ballots to take the lead, and about all that's left to count are the mail-ins, which trend Democratic, and Atlanta... which trends Democratic. And so far, the leads in Nevada and Arizona are holding up.

I'd say 'fingers crossed', but I don't want to give in to superstition.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 06, 2020, 01:10:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/0UUUid3.png)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 02:54:22 AM
Most of the protests seem to agree that all the votes should be counted, but the composition of each protest seems to vary inversely with which candidate is doing better at any particular time.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 06, 2020, 04:07:17 AM
Well, I was expecting him to declare cheating and all, BUT did he just say interference by 'the big media, big money and big tech?! Holly molly cockwrappers... He really knows his base, doesn't he?




Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 08:24:02 AM
Well, I was expecting him to declare cheating and all, BUT did he just say interference by 'the big media, big money and big tech?! Holly molly cockwrappers... He really knows his base, doesn't he?
He's projecting his own morality onto others, and it's something he does frequently.  It's not an uncommon human psychological defense mechanism.  People do it, usually at an unconscious level,  but projecting one's own faults onto others must be something in the Guidebook For Good Republicans, because they seem to have elevated it to an art form.  I always wonder if they are aware of it and doing it with forethought, or if they do it without knowing.  It doesn't make any difference.  It's offensive either way.

Traditionally, Republicans have gotten their financial support from corporations, but in the case of Trump, I suspect he has experienced a falloff from his corporate donors, who don't expect him to be around much longer.  It would make more financial sense for CEOs to give that money to senators, because Trump's chances for election have always been iffy. 

As far as cheating, it's always suspected, even by both parties, but until there is actual evidence, no one knows if it happens or not.  If Trump had evidence, he would give it now.  Politicians are great at making claims, but not so good at actually proving anything.  I suppose they don't need proof.  Poisoning the well is enough for their purposes.  False information throws voters into confusion, and that's all they need.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 06, 2020, 08:33:30 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/03/election-ballot-delays-usps/
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 08:42:54 AM
Biden leads in Georgia this morning.  Georgia!  That's almost bigger news than him winning the election.

https://mail.yahoo.com/b/folders/1/messages/ADiItY02geCkX6U7BAd9-HkDHvQ?.src=ym&reason=unsupported_browser&folderType=INBOX&showImages=true&offset=0&domain=nytimes.com
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 06, 2020, 08:49:28 AM
Well, I was expecting him to declare cheating and all, BUT did he just say interference by 'the big media, big money and big tech?! Holly molly cockwrappers... He really knows his base, doesn't he?
Hmmmm...................'cockwrappers'.............hadn't heard that one before. :)))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 08:56:39 AM
Hmmmm...................'cockwrappers'.............hadn't heard that one before. :)))
No, but it gets the point across.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 09:25:21 AM
Quote
Breaking News: Joe Biden has taken the lead in Pennsylvania as the state continues to tally votes. A win there would give him a majority of electoral votes.
In the wee hours of election night when I scanned the map for data on states, Trump was 6 points ahead in Pennsylvania (or was it 8 points).  This year in some ways resembles 2016, which hourly diary went something like:

09 PM Hillary projected to win!
10 PM Hillary projected to win!
11 PM Hillary projected to win! 
12 AM Hillary projected to win!
01 AM Hillary projected to win!
02 AM Hillary projected to win!
03 AM Hillary projected to win!
04 AM Trump wins election!

Well, I guess when it comes down to it, it's quite different.  The only similarity being the end may surprise us.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 09:30:22 AM
In all other presidential elections both the winner and the loser have called for unity.  They probably seldom mean it, but at least they say it.  I don't see that happening this year.  Win or lose, Trump will continue trying to divide the country, because that's what he thrives on.  That's about my only prediction for the next four years.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 06, 2020, 09:44:14 AM
In all other presidential elections both the winner and the loser have called for unity.  They probably seldom mean it, but at least they say it.  I don't see that happening this year.  Win or lose, Trump will continue trying to divide the country, because that's what he thrives on.  That's about my only prediction for the next four years.
I am concerned that if Biden wins, trump will call out the dogs--he will urge his white nationalist friends to violence.  He may think being able to declare martial law, or something like it, will allow him to be frozen in his presidency for awhile.  He may hope that that would keep him out of jail--and he'd have nothing to lose by trying it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2020, 09:59:01 AM
In all other presidential elections both the winner and the loser have called for unity.  They probably seldom mean it, but at least they say it.  I don't see that happening this year.  Win or lose, Trump will continue trying to divide the country, because that's what he thrives on.  That's about my only prediction for the next four years.

Not in 1860.  Not in 1800.  Rose colored glasses you wear.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2020, 09:59:59 AM
He's projecting his own morality onto others, and it's something he does frequently.  It's not an uncommon human psychological defense mechanism.  People do it, usually at an unconscious level,  but projecting one's own faults onto others must be something in the Guidebook For Good Republicans, because they seem to have elevated it to an art form.  I always wonder if they are aware of it and doing it with forethought, or if they do it without knowing.  It doesn't make any difference.  It's offensive either way.

Traditionally, Republicans have gotten their financial support from corporations, but in the case of Trump, I suspect he has experienced a falloff from his corporate donors, who don't expect him to be around much longer.  It would make more financial sense for CEOs to give that money to senators, because Trump's chances for election have always been iffy. 

As far as cheating, it's always suspected, even by both parties, but until there is actual evidence, no one knows if it happens or not.  If Trump had evidence, he would give it now.  Politicians are great at making claims, but not so good at actually proving anything.  I suppose they don't need proof.  Poisoning the well is enough for their purposes.  False information throws voters into confusion, and that's all they need.

Bill and Hillary got no money from Wall Street ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2020, 10:01:13 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/0UUUid3.png)

Every human ever ... rotten to the core
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2020, 10:01:52 AM
Most of the protests seem to agree that all the votes should be counted, but the composition of each protest seems to vary inversely with which candidate is doing better at any particular time.

Rule by Mob.  Irish mob, Italian mob etc.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2020, 10:02:41 AM
Well, I was expecting him to declare cheating and all, BUT did he just say interference by 'the big media, big money and big tech?! Holly molly cockwrappers... He really knows his base, doesn't he?

Is Turkish media free and fair?  Media are degenerate grifters.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2020, 10:03:25 AM
No, but it gets the point across.

Potty mouth?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2020, 10:03:52 AM
I am concerned that if Biden wins, trump will call out the dogs--he will urge his white nationalist friends to violence.  He may think being able to declare martial law, or something like it, will allow him to be frozen in his presidency for awhile.  He may hope that that would keep him out of jail--and he'd have nothing to lose by trying it.

I want Chinese invasion.  The price of chicken fried rice will lower.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 06, 2020, 11:00:04 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWRhLW7Y8w

Interesting...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2020, 11:04:38 AM
There are calls for a Trump dictatorship ... I am hoping it won't happen.  Being forced to read every Presidential tweet would be torture ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 06, 2020, 11:09:51 AM
... Traditionally, Republicans have gotten their financial support from corporations, but in the case of Trump, I suspect he has experienced a falloff from his corporate donors, who don't expect him to be around much longer.  It would make more financial sense for CEOs to give that money to senators, because Trump's chances for election have always been iffy.  ...

Ah...Ok. Thanks.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 06, 2020, 11:13:12 AM
Hmmmm...................'cockwrappers'.............hadn't heard that one before. :)))

LOOL I'm just making those as I go, I swear. It is not conscious if it means something. If it has a specific meaning, enlighten me. I use it here. ROFL But they recognise the word cock and most people don't get it is just the rooster, cough. ALso they get the holly but they think it is holy, lol. Hush.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 12:24:16 PM
This is truly grimm, but I already understand the frailty of democracy, so it's not like a total surprise.  Frankly, I'd rather have Trump win legitimately, than to watch democracy fail.  But I think it will fail, maybe not this year, but then maybe this year.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 06, 2020, 12:28:42 PM
This is truly grimm, but I already understand the frailty of democracy, so it's not like a total surprise.  Frankly, I'd rather have Trump win legitimately, than to watch democracy fail.  But I think it will fail, maybe not this year, but then maybe this year.

If Trump wins, he will continue to grab power for the Republican party. Trump has been taking advice from William Barr. And if that doesn't scare you... Watch this, and it will.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE63HmOYGps

Basically, if Trump wins, we're fucked. Trump thinks he's a king who can do whatever he wants. A legitimate Trump victory would only fuel that mindset. He might even decide he can stay beyond his two terms, if he wants to. This needs to be nipped in the bud now, not later.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 06, 2020, 12:35:20 PM
Come on, Biden. Get 'em.

https://youtu.be/l5WQu6R_jdM
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 06, 2020, 12:41:56 PM
(https://scontent.fhou1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/123619374_678903201529_8094206015861734097_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=q8-OV6LpunsAX9V0v4d&_nc_ht=scontent.fhou1-1.fna&oh=f883e662def00543882cbcd2f83e1012&oe=5FC94453)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 06, 2020, 02:06:35 PM
This is truly grimm, but I already understand the frailty of democracy, so it's not like a total surprise.  Frankly, I'd rather have Trump win legitimately, than to watch democracy fail.  But I think it will fail, maybe not this year, but then maybe this year.
Trump cannot win 'legitimately' because of all the shit he has pulled.  If he is declared the next president, that will be the end of the republic as we thought we knew it.  He will become a dictator/mob boss and that will be that.  But, even if Biden wins, that does not mean we will save the 'republic', nor will we ever go back to the way it was.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 03:44:10 PM
Trump cannot win 'legitimately' because of all the shit he has pulled.  If he is declared the next president, that will be the end of the republic as we thought we knew it.  He will become a dictator/mob boss and that will be that.  But, even if Biden wins, that does not mean we will save the 'republic', nor will we ever go back to the way it was.
That's what I think.  But I don't see Trump as the ultimate problem, and I don't see Biden as the solution.  But what we understood about our government was in a large part a myth, and I think you and I recognized much of this a long time ago.  Technically, it never was a democracy except those that came before us maintained it as a democracy.  We have a republic that we cooperatively treated like a democracy.  So what's bad about a republic?  Well, the Soviet Union comes to mind, and that place was a shit hole.

If Trump refuses to leave, he will be installed not by the people, but a small group controlled by the wealth of the country.  Or it could be someone no one has ever heard of.  "The people" will simply be removed from the equation altogether and replaced by something like a Politburo. 

I predicted this, but I didn't think I'd see it in my life.  And I don't imagine seeing it recycling itself 4, 8, or 12 years down the road.  Our leaders will have grown used to it, and would have little reason to give it up.  Democracy is not some self correcting system.  It only works with cooperation, and as divided as the country is, cooperation is no longer even on the table.  We have been trained from the top down to divide ourselves rather than unify so that someone else can step in and control.  Was this the plan or some inevitable outcome?  I don't know.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 06, 2020, 04:36:32 PM
That's what I think.  But I don't see Trump as the ultimate problem, and I don't see Biden as the solution.  But what we understood about our government was in a large part a myth, and I think you and I recognized much of this a long time ago.  Technically, it never was a democracy except those that came before us maintained it as a democracy.  We have a republic that we cooperatively treated like a democracy.  So what's bad about a republic?  Well, the Soviet Union comes to mind, and that place was a shit hole.

If Trump refuses to leave, he will be installed not by the people, but a small group controlled by the wealth of the country.  Or it could be someone no one has ever heard of.  "The people" will simply be removed from the equation altogether and replaced by something like a Politburo. 

I predicted this, but I didn't think I'd see it in my life.  And I don't imagine seeing it recycling itself 4, 8, or 12 years down the road.  Our leaders will have grown used to it, and would have little reason to give it up.  Democracy is not some self correcting system.  It only works with cooperation, and as divided as the country is, cooperation is no longer even on the table.  We have been trained from the top down to divide ourselves rather than unify so that someone else can step in and control.  Was this the plan or some inevitable outcome?  I don't know.
The entire last four years, including this election, no matter who 'wins' has caused me to begin the process of rethinking and reevaluating,  what our country has been, is now and what it will become.  Not an easy task for me--there is just so much I find bewildering.  I am simply still floored by the amount of hatred that is this country.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 06, 2020, 05:51:29 PM
In the wee hours of election night when I scanned the map for data on states, Trump was 6 points ahead in Pennsylvania (or was it 8 points).  This year in some ways resembles 2016, which hourly diary went something like:

09 PM Hillary projected to win!
10 PM Hillary projected to win!
11 PM Hillary projected to win! 
12 AM Hillary projected to win!
01 AM Hillary projected to win!
02 AM Hillary projected to win!
03 AM Hillary projected to win!
04 AM Trump wins election!

Well, I guess when it comes down to it, it's quite different.  The only similarity being the end may surprise us.
Assuming everything holds as-is with Trump holding NC and Biden picking off AZ, NV, PA and GA, the electoral vote totals will be 306-232 in Biden's favor... which was the same as Trump and Hillary's EV totals in 2016 (ignoring faithless electors).   I find that to be a tasty little irony.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2020, 06:37:12 PM
"Software 'Glitch' In Michigan Erroneously Gave 1000s Of Votes To Biden; Up To 47 Counties Compromised" ... oops?

"PA USPS Official Willing To Testify Under Oath Over Ballot-Backdating" ... if true, typical Dem

Meanwhile ... how will y'all like civil war?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 06, 2020, 06:42:59 PM
Assuming everything holds as-is with Trump holding NC
:( I got everyone I know to vote this year.  Literally everyone in the family voted for Biden - solid blues, lean blues, someone who doesn't normally vote and even one Republican who doesn't like Trump.  But apparently us blue city-slickers got outvoted by the rural civil war reenactors.

Now we look like idiots, with Georgia and Arizona showing us up.

Feels bad man.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2020, 06:46:27 PM
:( I got everyone I know to vote this year.  Literally everyone in the family voted for Biden - solid blues, lean blues, someone who doesn't normally vote and even one Republican who doesn't like Trump.  But apparently us blue city-slickers got outvoted by the rural civil war reenactors.

Now we look like idiots, with Georgia and Arizona showing us up.

Feels bad man.

Damn Yankees are assholes too ;-)  Or as they should be called now, Coasties.  The richest Coasties own private beaches, that the taxpayer gets to fix when a storm comes along.  Gotta love that great plantation the masters run these days.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 06, 2020, 08:56:06 PM
:( I got everyone I know to vote this year.  Literally everyone in the family voted for Biden - solid blues, lean blues, someone who doesn't normally vote and even one Republican who doesn't like Trump.  But apparently us blue city-slickers got outvoted by the rural civil war reenactors.

Now we look like idiots, with Georgia and Arizona showing us up.

Feels bad man.
As an Ohioan, I know how you feel.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on November 07, 2020, 06:54:53 AM
Trump is the pimple we see, the far more dangerous, is the festering infection underneath that pushed him to the top.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2020, 09:14:50 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeSiJmLoJd0
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 07, 2020, 09:38:31 AM
I haven't seen Colbert for years. He took over the the Tonight Show and said he was leaving the political stuff behind, because the Tonight Show was for a broader audience.  So I was surprised by this.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 07, 2020, 09:46:14 AM
(https://i.redd.it/254i7iyy2qx51.jpg)

Australian newspaper
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2020, 09:55:52 AM
I haven't seen Colbert for years. He took over the the Tonight Show and said he was leaving the political stuff behind, because the Tonight Show was for a broader audience.  So I was surprised by this.

I don't follow him. His vids come up along with John Oliver's and he always sticks to Trump, after all he almost made it impossible no to. I think when he said that he never thought the last 4 year was possible.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on November 07, 2020, 10:58:50 AM
They flipped blue and I love it
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 11:19:41 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWRhLW7Y8w

Interesting...

Goddamn it. There's no way William Barr doesn't know about this loophole. And if Barr knows, so does Trump.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2020, 11:31:42 AM
The news here have just reported Biden as the 46th president of The Unites States of America.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2020, 11:55:56 AM
That TED video is terrifying. And of course they all know.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 12:03:42 PM
Biden won the election. Hail Satan! This is a relief, but we all know this isn't the end. Now we just have to wait to see how Trump reacts to this news. If he will concede or not. My bets are on not. Rather than concede peacefully and encourage unity, he's going to call for division and refuse to leave.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:04:28 PM
News here has just reported Biden as the 46th president of The Unites States of America.

MSM decided aka press corp for DNC.  SCOTUS and House have yet to say.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:05:09 PM
Biden won the election. Hail Satan! This is a relief, but we all know this isn't the end. Now we just have to wait to see how Trump reacts to this news. If he will concede or not. My bets are on not. Rather than concede peacefully and encourage unity, he's going to call for division and refuse to leave.

I accept that not all atheists are satanists, but I do think all satanists are atheists.  You seem to fall into the wrong category ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:05:46 PM
Trump is the pimple we see, the far more dangerous, is the festering infection underneath that pushed him to the top.

How many Republicans will you burn, loot & murder?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:06:48 PM
Trump cannot win 'legitimately' because of all the shit he has pulled.  If he is declared the next president, that will be the end of the republic as we thought we knew it.  He will become a dictator/mob boss and that will be that.  But, even if Biden wins, that does not mean we will save the 'republic', nor will we ever go back to the way it was.

DNC could have avoided Hillary and Biden, if they had declared Obama President For Life (aka Haiti).  Wakanda!  Voted for Obama twice, would have preferred that they did.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:07:50 PM
This is truly grimm, but I already understand the frailty of democracy, so it's not like a total surprise.  Frankly, I'd rather have Trump win legitimately, than to watch democracy fail.  But I think it will fail, maybe not this year, but then maybe this year.

Good riddance - Davos ... part of a worldwide move to enslave or kill John Q Public.  Anyone up for wool clothing for winter and mutton for supper?  Sheeple have it coming.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2020, 12:08:35 PM
Guys, be safe.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:09:07 PM
If Trump wins, he will continue to grab power for the Republican party. Trump has been taking advice from William Barr. And if that doesn't scare you... Watch this, and it will.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE63HmOYGps

Basically, if Trump wins, we're fucked. Trump thinks he's a king who can do whatever he wants. A legitimate Trump victory would only fuel that mindset. He might even decide he can stay beyond his two terms, if he wants to. This needs to be nipped in the bud now, not later.

So, you will protect Hunter's 14 year old sex interests, and his meth pipe?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:12:21 PM
Guys, be safe.

How?  The US and GB and most other countries (not Russia, Iran, China) have been set up for destruction.  Been waiting for mega-death all my life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yHTpGog0IY

I know, we need to worship John Lennon, and have all the bad sex, bad drugs, bad music (not this one) and bad politics possible.

I am happy, in that I may yet live to see the mushroom clouds (not fungi).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:13:27 PM
The entire last four years, including this election, no matter who 'wins' has caused me to begin the process of rethinking and reevaluating,  what our country has been, is now and what it will become.  Not an easy task for me--there is just so much I find bewildering.  I am simply still floored by the amount of hatred that is this country.

King George III ... hold my pint
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 07, 2020, 12:15:12 PM
Baruch, rein yourself in, would ya kindly ?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:17:58 PM
Baruch, rein yourself in, would ya kindly ?


Enjoy your authoritarian EU.  Do they pick cotton over there?

I will shut up, when everyone else does.  The non-editorial news bits are all in the back.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 07, 2020, 12:19:02 PM

Enjoy your authoritarian EU.  Do they pick cotton over there?

I understand you have a lot of pent up energy right now. But none of us care.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 12:19:26 PM
Baruch, rein yourself in, would ya kindly ?

Seriously, even putting him on ignore isn't enough. So often I click on a thread, seeing there are new replies, and it's just a page full of Baruch. We need a Super Ignore button that doesn't even show the prompt to see the reply, and just skips it entirely.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:20:11 PM
I understand you have a lot of pent up energy right now. But none of us care.

And I don't care if Europe (not GB) gets occupied by Islam or China.  Defend yourselves, losers.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:21:38 PM
Seriously, even putting him on ignore isn't enough. So often I click on a thread, seeing there are new replies, and it's just a page full of Baruch. We need a Super Ignore button that doesn't even show the prompt to see the reply, and just skips it entirely.

This is because of the election mess.  I certainly enjoy all the "crazy" posts.  Much more entertaining what regular folks think than MSM.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 07, 2020, 12:24:42 PM
Biden--290!!
https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-wins-2020-presidential-election-defeats-trump-162710503.html

It took awhile--but now it's done.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 07, 2020, 12:29:26 PM
Seriously, even putting him on ignore isn't enough. So often I click on a thread, seeing there are new replies, and it's just a page full of Baruch. We need a Super Ignore button that doesn't even show the prompt to see the reply, and just skips it entirely.

Wouldn't know.. I refuse to use the ignore function for anyone. But yes, he's being extra himself.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:31:31 PM
Wouldn't know.. I refuse to use the ignore function for anyone. But yes, he's being extra himself.

Sorry for that.  I have never used the auto-reply-notice anywhere.  Not part of my culture to be on my phone 24x7, or access the Internet that way.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 12:32:26 PM
This is because of the election mess.  I certainly enjoy all the "crazy" posts.  Much more entertaining what regular folks think than MSM.

No, you've been like this for a while. When I first joined this forum, I liked you. You were odd, and I often had no idea WTF you were saying, but you seemed smart. I liked reading your unique perspective as a theist, and as a theist who thought God was evil. That was a unique perspective I've never heard before. But lately, you've turned into nothing but a massive annoyance, and that's pretty sad.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2020, 12:33:29 PM
The thing is I don't think he's voted for Trump. What's the deal? 

Anyway, let's get back to some  normalcy. Where were we? The global plague, far right parties everywhere around the world, all kinds of terrorism, massive fires, earthquakes, billions of batshit crazy people...etc.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2020, 12:34:39 PM
No, you've been like this for a while. When I first joined this forum, I liked you. You were odd, and I often had no idea WTF you were saying, but you seemed smart. I liked reading your unique perspective as a theist, and as a theist who thought God was evil. That was a unique perspective I've never heard before. But lately, you've turned into nothing but an massive annoyance, and that's pretty sad.

He's retired. I think he has retirement depression.   
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 07, 2020, 12:40:28 PM
Both AP (https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-wins-white-house-ap-fd58df73aa677acb74fce2a69adb71f9) and NPR (https://apps.npr.org/elections20-interactive/#/president) have declared Biden the winner.

(https://obs.line-scdn.net/0h_eZtOaQNAEpnDSiZgsR_HV1bAyVUYRNJAztRVDdjXn4ebkJIUmMbf0sMXHMdP0cUDmpNKkUNG3sZakcdDGIb/w644)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 07, 2020, 12:44:44 PM
And I don't care if Europe (not GB) gets occupied by Islam or China.  Defend yourselves, losers.

Really? Because honestly my impression of you these past few years has been that you are rather obsessed about that subject, amongst others...

In any case, I tried. I think I might be one of the last people here who is no worse than neutral to your presence, Baruch. Please do know that what I urge is not in ill intent. But to both your and our benefit, in my humble opinion.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 07, 2020, 12:49:05 PM
This is nice.  I'm going to kick back and just enjoy the moment.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 07, 2020, 01:09:12 PM
Fox News:  Biden Wins Presidency (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-wins-presidency-trump-fox-news-projects)

(https://external-preview.redd.it/ej82xzFyeIESz7jM604csiP6HfcIgDTSxOptmpeYV3c.jpg?auto=webp&s=7d2a86064c569fc61e70c3e3068f3b6021d2c33b)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 07, 2020, 02:27:34 PM
I'm thinking about Kamala Harris as Biden's running mate and Sarah Palin as John McCain's running mate.  Outspoken fighter that she can be, Harris was relatively quiet during this election.  Back during McCain's run at the presidency, it was almost all about Sara Palin.  McCain even considered by many Democrats to be a reasonable man, was over shadowed by Palin.  In fact, overrun by her.  I watched so many interviews of the two, where Sarah dominated the conversation, while McCain sat back with head down letting Sarah explain the goals and objectives of the Palin/McCain presidency.  It's like their roles were reversed.  Many of us didn't really get to know McCain, while everyone got to know Sara Palin.  That was the year I fell in love with Tina Fey.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 07, 2020, 02:36:58 PM
Has some points, but I think we need to try working together..Is that even possible?
https://youtu.be/6p6Wyusk5RY
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 02:41:41 PM
Really? Because honestly my impression of you these past few years has been that you are rather obsessed about that subject, amongst others...

In any case, I tried. I think I might be one of the last people here who is no worse than neutral to your presence, Baruch. Please do know that what I urge is not in ill intent. But to both your and our benefit, in my humble opinion.

I still hope for you and your girlfriend, for couples of all kinds ;-)  I don't think of people here ... as bad people.  Confused maybe.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 02:43:01 PM
Has some points, but I think we need to try working together..Is that even possible?
https://youtu.be/6p6Wyusk5RY

Why?  You want to put Jefferson Davis in the WH and kill Abraham Lincoln?  How long until political giant, Kamala Harris has Joe Biden in the nursing home, with Pelosi's assistance?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 02:44:31 PM
No, you've been like this for a while. When I first joined this forum, I liked you. You were odd, and I often had no idea WTF you were saying, but you seemed smart. I liked reading your unique perspective as a theist, and as a theist who thought God was evil. That was a unique perspective I've never heard before. But lately, you've turned into nothing but a massive annoyance, and that's pretty sad.

Yes, I am odd.  I don't fulfill your projections of what a theist is like or what a former-Democrat is like.  I am not annoyed at any of you.  Just fun watching and kibitzing.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 02:45:54 PM
The thing is I don't think he's voted for Trump. What's the deal? 

Anyway, let's get back to some  normalcy. Where were we? The global plague, far right parties everywhere around the world, all kinds of terrorism, massive fires, earthquakes, billions of batshit crazy people...etc.

Do you have a ticket to Davos?  If not, then you don't have a future, no more than I do.  And no, I would never vote for Trump.  That is the projection of Dems who think that anyone who wouldn't vote for Hillary, or won't vote at all, is Satan.  Which if funny coming from atheists ;-))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 02:48:18 PM
He's retired. I think he has retirement depression.

Possible diagnosis, but incorrect.  I have suffered from depression for years, but I am better with retirement.  I just have more time on my hands, which is OK by me.  I have so many interests and projects.  Currently reviewing ancient Egyptian.  The idea that 2019 is normal, or that 2015 is normal .. we never repeat even recent history.  There is no money for the financiers in that.  They thrive on chaos and oppression, and that is what the sheeple always get.  This has been true back to my first eligible election.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 02:54:51 PM
Has some points, but I think we need to try working together..Is that even possible?
https://youtu.be/6p6Wyusk5RY

Really? The Trumpets are calling for beheadings now? Who do they think they are, the Taliban?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 03:12:07 PM
Really? The Trumpets are calling for beheadings now? Who do they think they are, the Taliban?

Not, the Dems are Taliban ;-))  Allah Akbar!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 07, 2020, 03:14:01 PM
Really? The Trumpets are calling for beheadings now? Who do they think they are, they Taliban?
Yes (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/06/nyregion/bannon-lawyer-beheading.html).  And they prefer the term Y'all-qaeda.

It's one thing to hold a cartoonishly vile combination of religious and political beliefs.  It's quite another to turn traitor and call for the assassination of government officials or to call for an authoritarian repression of American voting rights.

The former is a pitiable though not technically illegal condition.  The latter is absolutely unacceptable in a free society and ought to entail substantial legal penalties.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 07, 2020, 03:30:48 PM
I can do no better than to quote, believe it or not, a Republican president:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLyX4DbE6Hc
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 07, 2020, 03:51:12 PM
I can do no better than to quote, believe it or not, a Republican president:
After two close calls, we really should do something to make sure this stuff doesn't happen again.  Because number 3 might be the one that ruins the country for good.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on November 07, 2020, 04:07:16 PM
Hoorays!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 04:15:18 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmOzZioXMAYYJjJ?format=jpg&name=medium)

Goodbye and good riddance, Trump!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 07, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
He did want us to go back to the moon
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 04:39:50 PM
He did want us to go back to the moon

Maybe that's where the secret Deep State base is hidden.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 07, 2020, 04:50:32 PM
He did want us to go back to the moon
Fortunately, Biden is also a NASA supporter, so Artemis is not necessarily off the table.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 05:37:45 PM
Maybe that's where the secret Deep State base is hidden.

No, Nazis on the dark side, and under Antarctica, haven't you seen the movies?

So the CIA/FBI don't exist, and are totally honest and patriotic?  Have I got a bridge for you ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 07, 2020, 06:01:07 PM
Fortunately, Biden is also a NASA supporter, so Artemis is not necessarily off the table.
One day we may need to leave this battered planet but for now I would not be opposed to redirecting some of the great minds at NASA to join in with other experts in a think tank to work on the climate change problem. Tropical Storm Eta, FFS. We have lost much valuable time with our anti-science "leaders".
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 07, 2020, 06:35:03 PM
No kidding.  One of my main reasons for voting Biden is that he intends to actually tackle climate change, not deny it away.  The clock is ticking and it's way past time that there was an adult in the room calling the shots.  Still, it might be too late to avoid a lot of the bad consequences of ignoring climate change, but not too late to avoid the truly horrific stuff - stuff that 4 more years of Trump would have surely steered us towards.  We have a lot of lost time to make up for and Republican stonewalling to overcome.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 07:18:04 PM
No kidding.  One of my main reasons for voting Biden is that he intends to actually tackle climate change, not deny it away.  The clock is ticking and it's way past time that there was an adult in the room calling the shots.  Still, it might be too late to avoid a lot of the bad consequences of ignoring climate change, but not too late to avoid the truly horrific stuff - stuff that 4 more years of Trump would have surely steered us towards.  We have a lot of lost time to make up for and Republican stonewalling to overcome.

Dude, if humanity had one million years to solve the climate change issue, we would wait until year one million and one. Getting Trump out of the White House certainly won't hurt, but people are stupid. They never learn.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 08:26:31 PM
Biden and Harris are about to give their victory speeches.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on November 07, 2020, 08:57:19 PM
FUCKING FINALLY. GET THAT ORANGE TINGED SHIT STAIN OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PopeyesPappy on November 07, 2020, 09:56:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/bEuWjrJ.png)

https://twitter.com/ziyatong/status/1324925633831579649
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: the_antithesis on November 07, 2020, 10:25:17 PM
What's a province?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 07, 2020, 10:27:30 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/bEuWjrJ.png)

https://twitter.com/ziyatong/status/1324925633831579649
I'm gonna have a go, keeping in mind that you have to take my word for it that I haven't googled it.

Ontario, Quebec, Newfoundland and Labrador, Prince Edward Island, Manitoba, Alberta, Saskatchewan, British Columbia, Yukon, Northwest Territory, Nunavut... that's 11, damn.  I can't think of the other two.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 07, 2020, 10:36:09 PM
Nova Scotia... My mother's family is from there and we used to visit. My first experience of a house with no running water.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 07, 2020, 10:38:15 PM
My friend sent me this today:


(https://64.media.tumblr.com/a9d9db7f877f122027b4f80001adb6ba/34335da1f5149f71-9e/s1280x1920/57527be9705a13c8a161f05a29567726d14e9a40.jpg)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/b63712447373f274c9b84e352d3f2b06/34335da1f5149f71-f2/s400x600/8f784a08f2fb7ac962b258f7eca62c0ee4ec734e.gifv)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 07, 2020, 10:49:40 PM
Welcome Back, America! (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/07/world-congratulates-joe-biden-on-us-presidential-election-win.html)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 07, 2020, 11:07:11 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/8ew3lc1kfmx51.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=dbe16eb4de2fb5c2de37256681d6c494ff38bd99)

Aged like milk.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 07, 2020, 11:35:54 PM
Nova Scotia... My mother's family is from there and we used to visit. My first experience of a house with no running water.
Yeah, I looked 'em up after I made my guess.  So I know the other one I forgot, too.  :)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 08, 2020, 03:28:51 AM
You know what, I'm almost sure by now that right wing mentality has strong correlations with inferiority complex, low self esteem and a strong fake kind of self confidence. That's probably why it is narcissistic in a pathological sense in the first place. They live completely out of reality.

The right wing here -atheist, secular, religious...- has started to attack Kamala Harris -Biden too of course but esp. her- just after the Democartic victory. You know because she is a SJW project with a CV; a woman but then she is not even black. ? Forget the last KKK parts, but someone with a CV?! Because dumbass people with no education or experience are welcome as long as they are white, het and male. You'd think you are reading the old 4chan in another language with a lighter tone. And their reaction is -supposedly- that it's going to be bad for us, dollar's gonna skyrocket as if it didn't before and all, as if the current government or rather the lack of a real one has nothing to do with the collapse. If the election in a country at the other side of the world -doesn't matter big and influential or not- affects your economy that bad, it is your fucking fault. You should have thought about that before building a theocratic oligarchy and kill all the production. Stupidity kills.

They talk about American recognition of Armenian Genocide -Kamala Harris will probably push it for good- although as they reportedly plan to get closer to Israel after Trump's cold period, I have no idea how they will balance that. The thing is, everything is aside, it doesn't matter because there are virtually no country left that doesn't recognise it. The UK and the US are the ones I know as the influential ones. And there is the military base issue related to that as bargain chip. Really? The US or UN will give that up or Turkey will say no we won't have it? PFFFFT. ROFL

They also claim Biden's going to start another invasion in the Middle East while Trump was to stay away from international interferences because -wait for it- he wanted to leave it to their people to solve their problems. ARRRGH. Apparently Trump is man with respect to other countries' autonomy and freedom.

The real problem could be Democrats laying it hard on the party in power. But as I said, what government? Because if social democrats manage to get in to the power they will lean to the Western policies. But how? When?

Anyway, the minority of sensible people trying to express a universal feeling that they are happy because it is a blow to an abhorrent mentality and the set of politics and policies it produces. Finally, something against homicidal far right.

But, nope. 20 years of...mostly the last 10 years actually, Erdogan regime created a mass of Turkish rednecks who are impossible to interact with. Reliigous, secular or nonbeliever. Maybe that's why watching this American elections was like watching ours in some sense.


Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 08, 2020, 06:55:16 AM
What's a province?
Is it like a commonwealth?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 08, 2020, 06:59:11 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/bEuWjrJ.png)

https://twitter.com/ziyatong/status/1324925633831579649

Actually, I can and just did, even though I never bothered knowing there were thirteen.

I'll also tell you that when asked to name the 50 states, I've never done it.  It's been a long time since I tried.  Maybe I could do it now.  I don't know.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 08, 2020, 10:05:41 AM
Canada apparently is easy for Americans to forget about ;-)  The one time I met Canadians while in Athens Greece, over retsina, I said a few nice things about them, just to be social.  The conversation implied they had an inferiority complex to the US (not justified of course), but they weren't neo-Nazis, more liberal on average than Americans.

Left wing mentality corresponds to superiority complex.  Abolitionists are Aryans (like Hitler).  Progressives are New Soviet Men (like Stalin).  With archetypes like those, what is not to like?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 08, 2020, 10:41:41 AM
Actually, I can and just did, even though I never bothered knowing there were thirteen.

I'll also tell you that when asked to name the 50 states, I've never done it.  It's been a long time since I tried.  Maybe I could do it now.  I don't know.

Imma try and fail

Alaska
Hawai
Washington
Oregon
California
Nevada
Texas
Florida
South Dakota and North dakota
Oklahoma
Ohio
Minnessota
Michigan
Winsconsin
Vermont
Pennsylvania
Maine
New York and New jersey
South Carolina and North carolina
Virginia and West virginia
Utah
Wyoming
Mississippi
Maryland
Arizona
Kansas
New Mexico
Georgia
Idaho (?)  that's a state, right?
Alabama
Arkensas
Connecticut
Atlanta

That's about as far as I get, to my shame.

Edit: and i wasn't sure about Atlanta, and after looking it up I clearly was wrong

Edit after edit: gah, after looking it up I'm like, I know these states damn it
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on November 08, 2020, 11:09:43 AM
What's a province?
It's funny because Canadians still can't name all 50 states or where they're located. Neither can Europeans, without looking at a map. In their defense, though, most people in the U.S. can't either.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on November 08, 2020, 11:10:54 AM
Imma try and fail

That was actually really good. I always forget about Vermont and Wyoming, for some reason.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 08, 2020, 11:18:37 AM
Imma try and fail
The problem is that it's a long list.  Almost any American can tell you it's a state when they hear it, but it's easy to leave one out.  I try to picture a map of the US, but when I get over to the Atlantic Seaboard, there's that little cluster of states by Washington DC, that's so small, it doesn't even show up in my mind map.  I just know, "Oh that's the part that has all those little states."  Other times I might leave out a big state like Alabama or Utah.  We were supposed to learn this in grade school, but I can't remember ever being able to do it.  Frankly, it didn't seem that important.

They other thing we were supposed to learn were the state capitols.  That never seemed important, and now with Google, learning them really strikes me as a total waste of time.  Remember learning arithmetic?  You know addition, multiplication tables and all that.  Now that was obviously necessary, at least at the time, but today they don't seem to stress that.  Just use a calculator.  Why bother knowing about carrying the left over into the next step of division and all that.  We have computers for that drudgery.  For spelling we have spell check, although it sometimes renders rather odd sentences when it's self correcting.

Times are changing.  If you don't like facts, just use alternate facts.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 08, 2020, 11:24:32 AM
Even as late as college, I had to learn how to operate a slide rule.  By the time I graduated from college slide rules had become objects taking up shelf space in pawn shops.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 08, 2020, 12:08:45 PM
(https://i.redd.it/7011elnm4yx51.jpg)

Arguably, they did a better job there than the coronavirus response.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 08, 2020, 01:37:40 PM
The problem is that it's a long list.  Almost any American can tell you it's a state when they hear it, but it's easy to leave one out.  I try to picture a map of the US, but when I get over to the Atlantic Seaboard, there's that little cluster of states by Washington DC, that's so small, it doesn't even show up in my mind map.  I just know, "Oh that's the part that has all those little states."  Other times I might leave out a big state like Alabama or Utah.  We were supposed to learn this in grade school, but I can't remember ever being able to do it.  Frankly, it didn't seem that important.

They other thing we were supposed to learn were the state capitols.  That never seemed important, and now with Google, learning them really strikes me as a total waste of time.  Remember learning arithmetic?  You know addition, multiplication tables and all that.  Now that was obviously necessary, at least at the time, but today they don't seem to stress that.  Just use a calculator.  Why bother knowing about carrying the left over into the next step of division and all that.  We have computers for that drudgery.  For spelling we have spell check, although it sometimes renders rather odd sentences when it's self correcting.

Times are changing.  If you don't like facts, just use alternate facts.

Knew all the states and capitals when I was 6, because my mom encouraged me.  Had a lose plastic set of states I could put together.  Easy to lose the parts for Delaware and Rhode Island.  I can still do all the states from memory, but I am wrong on some of the capitals (vs other large cities in those states).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 08, 2020, 01:38:24 PM
(https://i.redd.it/7011elnm4yx51.jpg)

Arguably, they did a better job there than the coronavirus response.

Mafia affiliates always hate Giuliani.  The picture maker misspelled his name.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 08, 2020, 02:08:52 PM
Our first, second gentleman...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmPHH93XUAAVlx7?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 08, 2020, 02:35:34 PM
Our first, second gentleman...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmPHH93XUAAVlx7?format=jpg&name=900x900)

First second

That's going to be a popular quiz question.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 08, 2020, 02:54:33 PM
I have had no President since Obama, and I after-the-fact reject all those since Eisenhower.  So not my government, not by party, not my leaders, not my countrymen.  Which is fine, I am not Japanese either, and don't hold any ennui against Japan.  So I consider myself an illegal alien here, since 2016.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 08, 2020, 03:10:52 PM
You have a weird way of showing it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 08, 2020, 03:12:36 PM
OK, I need to confess something. She is going to eat all of them alive. And that makes me happy.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 08, 2020, 05:03:11 PM
You have a weird way of showing it.

I am complicated.  Not 2 dimensional unlike most people on the Internet ;-)

The reference was to Stranger In A Strange Land ... if you saw my eye condition, that Munch did pay attention to when I shared it, you would know I am from Mars, that and being civilian-military for 32 years.

You assume I am a White supremacist who goes around murdering women, children and colored folk, while wearing a bed sheet?  I have watched some recent videos by young defected N Korean soldiers, about how they had a totally false notion of the US, from all the propaganda.  I see Europeans as being brainwashed too.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 08, 2020, 05:04:34 PM
OK, I need to confess something. She is going to eat all of them alive. And that makes me happy.

Chronos eats his own children aka Saturn in Roman mythology.  So you support Greco-Roman mythology?

I don't hope you end up in a Sharia harem.  Because i don't think you would like it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 08, 2020, 06:58:31 PM
(https://i.redd.it/c3i9w2ifqzx51.jpg)

It's like Coruscant finding out the Emperor is dead.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 08, 2020, 07:46:22 PM
Humans emote, which is good.  Humans don't think, which is bad.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 08, 2020, 08:15:32 PM
Trump seems awful quiet lately, or has the media lost interest in him?  I know he's working on his court case stuff.  Well his lawyers are, but it's not like him to remain silent for more than 20 minutes.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 08, 2020, 08:19:21 PM
I think he's been playing golf all week.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 08, 2020, 08:21:00 PM
I can only find an update for yesterday at this site, which I only discovered two minutes ago.  It goes back day by day, for I don't know how far.

https://www.whattrumpdid.today/
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 08, 2020, 09:18:29 PM
Trump seems awful quiet lately, or has the media lost interest in him?
We can only hope.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 08, 2020, 10:48:14 PM
Arkansas police chief resigns over calling for violence against Democrats (https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/08/us/arkansas-police-chief-violence-parler-invs/index.html)

Quote
In addition to repeatedly saying Democrats should be killed, he shared memes from conspiracy theory QAnon and claimed that the election was being stolen.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 08, 2020, 11:10:20 PM
Somebody had on Fox News in the break room today. Probably the same person who keeps turning it on to the religious channels on Sundays... But it was kind of interesting hearing how they were talking about the Biden victory. They weren't in denial about Biden's victory, and it almost seemed to me like they were relieved. Of course, this is still Fox News, so mileage will vary based on the show you're watching there.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 08, 2020, 11:19:56 PM
Somebody had on Fox News in the break room today. Probably the same person who keeps turning it on to the religious channels on Sundays... But it was kind of interesting hearing how they were talking about the Biden victory. They weren't in denial about Biden's victory, and it almost seemed to me like they were relieved. Of course, this is still Fox News, so mileage will vary based on the show you're watching there.
There are some indications that Murdoch and his media group are turning on Trump (https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/07/business/fox-news-rupert-murdoch-trump/).  The 'straight news' anchors haven't been hesitant about calling the talking heads' misinformation exactly that, which suggests the corporate Christmas party should be an interesting affair...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 08, 2020, 11:45:08 PM
Sometimes, I go on the conservative side of reddit just to see if they're making any solid points or looking at something from an angle I didn't consider.

I went there a few hours ago and it was all about Donnie having a real chance of winning, fake ballots, and the MSM (apparently including Fox News lol) calling this race prematurely.

Now it's all concern trolling about crowds (they seem to have no objection to crowds, even maskless ones, for much, much longer periods of time but when it's against trump they suddenly have a problem) and general hatred towards liberals, so normal for them.  It takes them a while to figure out the obvious, but that's kinda their thing.

Interestingly, both a conservative subreddit and a liberal one cited the recent statement from George W Bush.

Conservative headline:  George W. Bush: Trump Has Right To Pursue Recounts And Legal Challenges Over Election
Liberal headline:  George W. Bush: "I just talked to the President-elect of the United States, Joe Biden. I extended my warm congratulations and thanked him for the patriotic message he delivered last night. I also called Kamala Harris to congratulate her on her historic election."

Actual text (https://www.bushcenter.org/about-the-center/newsroom/press-releases/2020/11/president-george-w-bush-statement-joe-biden.html)

As can be expected, the liberals transcribed the opening lines verbatim while the conservatives cherry-picked what they wanted out of it and discarded the rest.  Who to trust for my news?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 09, 2020, 12:28:12 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmUDT9jU0AAXMrB.jpg)

https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/election-week-2020

Well, at least the polling about young people's preferences is accurate.  The narrow results had me worried that maybe the youngsters had fallen a peg.  Instead, they helped break the battleground states for Biden.  We would be talking about President Trump's second term right now if they had just stayed home.

If these demographic trends continue, the GOP might be in a real demographic bind in 10-20 years.  Not to put to fine a point on it, but there aren't more Boomers in the US than there was a year ago.  And although the white nationalist crowd is no doubt more active than they have been in decades, they're no spring chickens, either.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 09, 2020, 03:23:41 AM
Trump seems awful quiet lately, or has the media lost interest in him?  I know he's working on his court case stuff.  Well his lawyers are, but it's not like him to remain silent for more than 20 minutes.

Ha! The price of tweeting like an asshole, lying through your teeth for 4 years because you know people have to pay attention due to your station is that the moment you lose it, nobody's going to give the slightest fuck.

They won't even make him a meme. They won't even make fun of him because people won't even get pisssed off at him. And that was his only act. This was the antidote of that plague I guess and now the herd immunity is achieved.

He'll try anything probably. Don't be surprised if he tries to create scandals.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 09, 2020, 03:31:57 AM
Crazy stuff is happening here. Minister of economy has resigned and there was no news on the tv channels. All over social media though. (The minister was his son in law. LOL, yeah.) Head of the central bank was removed. I have no idea if this is some ruse or something real is going on. :boohoo: The fear of the American Democrats? What? I didn't say anything. :kidra:
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 09, 2020, 04:25:27 AM
Ha! The price of tweeting like an asshole, lying through your teeth for 4 years because you know people have to pay attention due to your station is that the moment you lose it, nobody's going to give the slightest fuck.
 
He'll try anything probably. Don't be surprised if he tries to declare create scandals.
I have enjoyed the silence for sure.  It's part of that post election calm not having to hear all about all his toxic comments and divisive tweets. It's embarrassing to me.  He will no doubt remain as an outside agitator and a powerful voice against national unity, and he will gain some attention, but he won't have the power to directly push the buttons of discord.  He turned the presidency into a job that would be better off left unfilled.  An empty desk in the White House would be an improvement.  I don't expect much from Biden, but he's preferable to that lunatic.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 09, 2020, 04:40:16 AM
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/11/08/us/politics/08dc-republicans1/merlin_179576127_1057c42a-4d67-4eae-a4e4-56d2fd8621d9-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale)

Quote
“Every legal challenge should be heard,” Representative Kevin McCarthy of California said. “Then and only then will America decide who won the race.”Credit...Anna Moneymaker for The New York Times
Well OK, but a 4 million plus vote from a majority works too, and presidents have been seated with far less.  I hope we don't have to go through this every time some loser gets his ass kicked in an election from now on.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 09, 2020, 04:45:17 AM
Crazy stuff is happening here. Minister of economy has resigned and there was no news on the tv channels. All over social media though. (The minister was his son in law. LOL, yeah.) Head of the central bank was removed. I have no idea if this is some ruse or something real is going on. :boohoo: The fear of the American Democrats? What? I didn't say anything. :kidra:
It's times like this when a little help from the media could be useful.  Mysterious actions by a government are spooky, and don't build confidence in leadership.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 09, 2020, 09:01:39 AM
An empty desk in the White House would be an improvement.  I don't expect much from Biden, but he's preferable to that lunatic.
I am a natural optimist (one reason these last 4 yrs have been so hard for me) and I think you may be selling Biden a bit short.  This is my thought at this moment--feel free to kick holes in it. :)  Biden is just the right personality that is needed right now.  He has 50yrs of political 'service'.  He knows the people in congress and the other 'movers and shakers'.  He is highly regarded in most circles in DC.  He has a history of caring (or at least respecting) for people, has a reputation of being a healer, of being able to be empathetic and sympathetic.  He has a task of undoing the trump evil and I think he can do that long, slow job.  He will not do anything groundbreaking, but doing repair work, work that he has done in the past (just not to the level he will need to do it now).  I do not see him fired up, or even caring much about, any career building that a younger politician would care about. I can even see him stepping down after 4 years of repair and letting the younger dems take over.  Biden does not have an ego problem.  I see him thinking of himself of more of a bridge than hard-charger for change.  Anyway, he very well may be just the thing we need now in DC. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 09, 2020, 10:02:00 AM
I am a natural optimist (one reason these last 4 yrs have been so hard for me) and I think you may be selling Biden a bit short. 
I just don't expect much from him.  He made that clear.  Not sure that's selling him short.  But I'm open to progress.  Boy am I open!  Right now the Republicans are the progressive party.  Dems are dragging their feet just following along, and didn't accomplish much during Obama.  He bailed out a bunch of corrupt bankers, and came up with health insurance that helped the needy, but helped the private insurance companies more. Where's that money come from?   Now we have Obama light, but without a sympathetic Senate. 

Hey, I'm relieved to have Trump out.  Maybe it's up to Dems to be the conservative party holding the line on progress, and if that's all people want, so be it.  Biden may surprise me, and I'd like nothing more than to tell everyone he surprised the heck out of me, and I will do that happily if it somehow happens.  But I don't expect much.  Right now the Democratic party is focused on winning moderates from the Republicans.  They are ignoring the progressive wing of the party, and Biden made that clear.  I and other progressives are just expected to vote Democratic because we owe it to them for not being assholes or something.  Right now I'm still basking in the glow of Trump's absence.  That's all I expected to get out this election.  I'm feeling good, and I will never EVER regret Trump's absence.  So that's a good thing.  I'm doing well, I'm financially secure and don't mind isolating.  I don't really need anything from Biden for myself.  But for some stupid reason I have a deep concern over the direction of our country, and I'll probably take that to my grave.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 09, 2020, 11:47:36 AM
I only need for them not to fuck up the affordable care act. Finally have reasonable coverage at a decent cost or vice versa. Of course that orange splash of voted-out hog-smegma has filed with that supreme court of religious jesters to overthrow my policy in the middle of a pandemic.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 09, 2020, 01:08:00 PM
It's times like this when a little help from the media could be useful.  Mysterious actions by a government are spooky, and don't build confidence in leadership.

The media is part of the problem, not part of the solution.  But a true believer will accept the benedictions of the priests of politics
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 09, 2020, 01:10:15 PM
I only need for them not to fuck up the affordable care act. Finally have reasonable coverage at a decent cost or vice versa. Of course that orange splash of voted-out hog-smegma has filed with that supreme court of religious jesters to overthrow my policy in the middle of a pandemic.

I won't obey dictatorial ACA, but if it works for you, good on you.  Voluntary ACA isn't communism, just fraud (like all health insurance).

Have to joke, how Dems are like Born Again Christians who have see Jesus reappear in the White House.  Crazy like people on drugs.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 09, 2020, 01:36:21 PM
Healthcare is my number one issue and I believe Biden will be better than Trump. Biden proposes to expand the Affordable Care Act by increasing marketplace subsidies, adopting auto-enrollment, and offering a new public option available to those in the individual market or with employer coverage. The plan would also reduce the Medicare age from 65 to 60, establish a new long-term care tax credit, and increase funding for rural health and mental health services.

Trump says he wanted to end the ACA and replace it with "something terrific" and/or "something great." He says he wants to increase competition and lower healthcare costs with few specifics on how this would be accomplished. Experts tend to believe that it's unlikely Republicans would scrap the ACA entirely because the ACA isn't just about insuring the formerly uninsured; the 900-plus page piece of legislation has also touched many other parts of the American healthcare system. As Trump famously learned, "Nobody knew healthcare could be so complicated." Republicans don't actually have a new healthcare plan and it's likely they would make a few revisions and relabeled the ACA something other than "Obamacare".

Neither support eliminating private insurance and replacing it with Medicare-for-All.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 09, 2020, 01:39:11 PM
It's times like this when a little help from the media could be useful.  Mysterious actions by a government are spooky, and don't build confidence in leadership.

It's...kind of different. It's gonna be bad...but you know, it is gonna be good long term. Otherwise, it's FUBAR.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 09, 2020, 02:03:39 PM
Trump just fired the Secretary of Defense for disagreeing with him about sending in national troops to protest rallies against police brutality last June.
Quote
NYT
Mr. Esper’s downfall had been expected for months, after he took the rare step in June of disagreeing publicly with Mr. Trump and saying that active-duty military troops should not be sent to control the wave of protests in American cities. The president, who had threatened to use the Insurrection Act to do exactly that, was furious, officials said.
How long is it to January?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 09, 2020, 02:19:47 PM
I am a natural optimist (one reason these last 4 yrs have been so hard for me) and I think you may be selling Biden a bit short.  This is my thought at this moment--feel free to kick holes in it. :)  Biden is just the right personality that is needed right now.  He has 50yrs of political 'service'.  He knows the people in congress and the other 'movers and shakers'.  He is highly regarded in most circles in DC.  He has a history of caring (or at least respecting) for people, has a reputation of being a healer, of being able to be empathetic and sympathetic.  He has a task of undoing the trump evil and I think he can do that long, slow job.  He will not do anything groundbreaking, but doing repair work, work that he has done in the past (just not to the level he will need to do it now).  I do not see him fired up, or even caring much about, any career building that a younger politician would care about. I can even see him stepping down after 4 years of repair and letting the younger dems take over.  Biden does not have an ego problem.  I see him thinking of himself of more of a bridge than hard-charger for change.  Anyway, he very well may be just the thing we need now in DC.

While I don't expect huge leaps in progress from Biden, especially if Republicans continue to hold the Senate majority in January, after thinking about it, I've come to the conclusion that Biden is definitely what we needed right now. He's basically the total opposite of what Trump is. Trump dedicated his entire political career to dividing this country, to sowing anger, and granting legitimacy to conspiracy theories. Biden may have run as a Democrat, but he's a Centrist. All of Trump's attempts to paint him as a radical, who plans to defund the police and turn America to socialism failed because we knew who he was. Trump entered office with zero experience, and his incompetence in the arena showed. Biden, on the other hand, has had decades of experience, serving in the Senate as far back as 1973. The Right attempted to spin this as a negative, but that's rich coming from the party of career politicians. Biden's goal has been described several times as to bring the Left and the Right together, and to promote compromise over party division. I believe that he genuinely means that, and he has a personal relationship with McConnell, the Senate majority leader. Now, McConnell is one of the most partisan Republicans in office, but if Biden is able to get through to him, maybe we can actually get some stuff done.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 09, 2020, 02:22:49 PM
Neither support eliminating private insurance and replacing it with Medicare-for-All.
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/36621003/itd-be-a-lot-cooler-if-you-did.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on November 09, 2020, 02:27:44 PM
(https://i.redd.it/7011elnm4yx51.jpg)

Arguably, they did a better job there than the coronavirus response.
I guess you could say they were caught between a cock and a charred place.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 09, 2020, 02:36:31 PM
Biden's goal has been described several times as to bring the Left and the Right together, and to promote compromise over party division
That's a laudable goal though I personally doubt the Right will be receptive to it.  They're too used to sabre-rattling and sectarian warfare to give it up now.  Personally, I believe this is going to end up like the Aesop's fable about the frog and the scorpion.  But hey, it might turn out like the turtle and the scorpion.  You never know.  Either way, I'm glad I'm not the one sticking my neck out.

Quote
I believe that he genuinely means that, and his personal relationship with McConnell. Now, McConnell is one of the most partisan Republicans in office, but if Biden is able to get through to him, maybe we can actually get some stuff done.
I wouldn't count on it, unfortunately.  I expect McConnell to behave no differently than he has during Trump and Obama presidencies.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 09, 2020, 02:57:14 PM
If Trump could have stopped tweeting and behaved like a world leader I think he would have won the election. Even though Trump was delivering for conservatives, he couldn't become a better version of himself, he simply couldn't manage his narcissism. From Philip Klein, executive editor of the conservative Washington Examiner (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/donald-trump-lost-the-presidency-because-he-refused-to-act-like-a-president):

... Trump had so many chances to act like a president. He could have shed his campaign-style once he was elected or sworn in. Instead, he began his presidency spending days digging into a pointless lie about the size of his inauguration crowds.

Throughout his presidency, Trump’s Twitter feed and his public statements were filled with invective. He spread conspiracies and lobbed insults. Nearly every controversy Trump created during his time in office was due to his failure to grasp the gravity of the office — that saying things as president can carry significant consequences and thus is different than saying them as a private citizen. A stray tweet can rock the stock market or trigger an unnecessary foreign policy crisis or spread dangerous disinformation. ...

Unfortunately for the nation, as well as his reelection prospects, he was incapable of doing so. He could not abandon the persona of indulging petty feuds during a pandemic. He could not understand that in a time of crisis, people want the truth, not happy talk and unsubstantiated boasts about how great things were going and how quickly it would be over. ...

History will record that Trump tried to downplay the virus. But as we write the rough draft, it’s important to note that Trump’s behavior was not just unserious but erratic. It would be one thing if, from the get-go, he argued that people shouldn’t give up their lives due to the coronavirus and resisted lockdowns. Instead, he was all over the place. He embraced “15 days to slow the spread” and then extended it. He tweeted, “Liberate Michigan,” and then, when Georgia tried to ease restrictions, he said that he “strongly disagreed” with Gov. Brian Kemp. Trump repeatedly praised Anthony Fauci and listened to pretty much all of his recommendations for months, but then closed out the campaign indulging chants of “Fire Fauci” at a raucous campaign rally.

As Trump faces obvious defeat, he is still incapable of putting the country before his fragile ego. He is making unsubstantiated accusations that the election has been stolen and claiming to have won “by a lot.” He will likely drag the country through weeks of litigation and months more of riling up his supporters about election fraud. In short, he will still not be able to behave like a president.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 09, 2020, 04:45:03 PM
Bwahah ... unite Hitler and Stalin ... that worked out well, for less than 2 years.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 09, 2020, 10:08:39 PM
This sounds encouraging.


https://youtu.be/U9OklK9JBmA
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 09, 2020, 11:18:55 PM
Biden isn't smart now, if he ever was.  I don't think anyone who runs for President is smart.  The grifters who want to be officials in the Administration, those are the smart ones, as in evil smart.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 09, 2020, 11:25:12 PM
Yeah, it's nice Biden is getting a crack team together.  He certainly has his work cut out from him.  The first year or two of his presidency will likely just be cleaning up the gigantic mess of the past 4 years.

For starters, he's going to have to fumigate the Oval Office and get everything wiped down with disinfecting wipes to get rid of the covid.  Maybe grab a broom to coax Eric out and I believe Giuliani is still most vulnerable at midday.  Maybe use a stake-winch thing like in that John Carpenter movie.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 10, 2020, 02:45:05 AM
I don't agree with Philip Klein. Actually, I don't agree with the general idea of 'if Trump was or had done...'  What's that? Conservative apologetics? The problem is not one man.

Forget about the president Trump, what does this man do? Who is he? What does he do for a living? He is a sleazy salesman with a net worth of 2.5 billion dolars. His life is based founding businesses and bankrupting them, he doesn't give a fuck about the people in the bussinesses he failed. He can't. If he did, he wouldn't be able to do this job and what's more, it doesn't even touch him remotely.

If Trump had acted like a president that man described, he wouldn't have had this support and the following. He wouldn't have even won. Trump knows this better than his critiques, because he has read America better than anyone as a salesman for the period. That's his real job.

And they loved him for that, there was an instant bond between this man and his group, because those people see that vulgarity, those controversies and conspiracy as 'saying it the way he sees it' = 'the truth'. You keep telling how it is all badly corrupt at both sides, how fucked up all system is...etc and how repulsed you all are. I have been reading this for nearly a decade.

Well, that's what Trump exploited by speaking the other America's language. He exploited what all hard working Americans feel and turned it into a product to sell his target group in the right time. After Obama. He knew that the more he contrasted him, the better he would sell his.

Do you honestly think, as a person, Donald Trump is so stupid that he doesn't understand the difference of his own style and what has been before him in that office?

The problem is not Trump. It's a symptom. Trump was just there and he fit. They will create their own Trump if necessary.

It's the certain group of people. What do they want? Do they actually want anything at all or is this just about being a part of something they think is meaningful? What is it?

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 10, 2020, 08:50:48 AM
I don't agree with Philip Klein. Actually, I don't agree with the general idea of 'if Trump was or had done...'  What's that? Conservative apologetics? The problem is not one man.

If Trump had acted like a president that man described, he wouldn't have had this support and the following. He wouldn't have even won. Trump knows this better than his critiques, because he has read America better than anyone as a salesman for the period. That's his real job.
His strength is in his salesmanship for sure.  He did tap into something in America that I thought was long dead, and I think many others thought it was a dead issue too.  Could he have made more changes that would have strengthened his support?  Maybe, but he didn't.  He played to his main strengths and then dramatically increased his support in his second election by playing to those strengths. 

It's nice to bask in Biden's victory, and I still am, but I haven't lost sight of how phenomenally well Trump did the second time around, and he did that without using all those "could of" and "should ofs" that Philip Klein points to.  Had this not been a record turnout, he would have won by a large margin, especially in the electoral college. 

But why the record turnout?  This election was about Trump, both for his supporters and those who voted for Biden.  Biden is not powerful enough to generate enough interest to cause a record turnout.  But Trump is.  I'm pretty sure we can thank Trump for the turnout of his supporters and those people like me who just couldn't take any more of him.

Do you honestly think, as a person, Donald Trump is so stupid that he doesn't understand the difference of his own style and what has been before him in that office?
I've wondered about that a lot.  Is the man smart or stupid?  Probably a bit of both.  He's a Hell of a salesman, and that takes smarts, at least smarts of a psychopathic nature. As a politician, maybe not so smart.  Bottom line, he's lacking in the intelligence required to stay in office as much as today's pollsters are lacking the knowledge of predicting political outcomes.  It may just be that he happened to be good at the things that successful politicians need in TODAY'S political environment.  He just happened to show up at the right time, speaking to the emotions of people, rather than their intellect.  He just hasn't mastered the art of knowing when to stop pushing buttons when he needs to.  This was evident in the last months before the election, instead of softening his positions and reaching out across the isle when it looked like things were going south, he doubled down on what he does best.  But it only works with less than half of the voters, and half of those voters don't usually show up at the polls, except for this year.

The problem is not Trump. It's a symptom. Trump was just there and he fit. They will create their own Trump if necessary.
That's what I think.  He was just in the right place at the right time, talking to a nation in decay.

It's the certain group of people. What do they want? Do they actually want anything at all or is this just about being a part of something they think is meaningful? What is it?
That's a hard question, and I can't even speculate.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 10, 2020, 09:12:11 AM
The elephant in the room is always religion. If you are taught as a kid to swallow all that nonsense; you are set-up to TRUELY believe anything and everything, as along as it suits your purposes. It lowers the rationality threshold standards of a society. This is why so many rabid tRumpsters happen to go big on Cheese-us and suck up conspiracy after conspiracy. The only way out is subsequent generations that largely ditch the faith. Not there yet, but the boomers are dying out and it seems their kids do have better vision.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 10, 2020, 09:21:24 AM
If you believe that Noah built an Ark and filled it with dinosaurs and your vacation to the Ark Encounter in Kentucky was astonishing, then Bill Gates creating a virus so he can vaccinate the population with his 5G chips must easily seem plausible.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 10:40:19 AM
If you believe that Noah built an Ark and filled it with dinosaurs and your vacation to the Ark Encounter in Kentucky was astonishing, then Bill Gates creating a virus so he can vaccinate the population with his 5G chips must easily seem plausible.

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/patent/US-2006257852-A1

https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/

Bill & Melinda Gates foundation have long involvement in medical research.  No, he isn't Mandark (cartoon), he doesn't even have a hidden lab in his parent's basement like Poindexter.  That isn't how evil billionaires work.

If people want to believe that Biden never assaulted any women or showed inappropriate attention to children, that he isn't as degenerate as his son Hunter, they can believe what they want.  But women have made claims, and there is film of Biden showing inappropriate attention to children.

But if people want instead, to believe that there is no such thing as evil, then rob, rape and murder to their heart's content.  The Marquis De Sade never existed, CNN has disproved it ;-))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 10:42:50 AM
The elephant in the room is always religion. If you are taught as a kid to swallow all that nonsense; you are set-up to TRUELY believe anything and everything, as along as it suits your purposes. It lowers the rationality threshold standards of a society. This is why so many rabid tRumpsters happen to go big on Cheese-us and suck up conspiracy after conspiracy. The only way out is subsequent generations that largely ditch the faith. Not there yet, but the boomers are dying out and it seems their kids do have better vision.

“When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing. They then become capable of believing in anything.” - Émile Cammaerts .. as in democracy, money, Karl Marx etc etc .. it isn't elephants or quanta all the way down, it is BS.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 10, 2020, 10:53:17 AM
It's a certain group of people. What do they want? Do they actually want anything at all or is this just about being a part of something they think is meaningful? What is it?

I don't understand why so many people are puzzled by Trump's appeal? It isn't like this is a fringe group, it's almost half the voters in the US. People voted for Trump for a variety of reasons and if you listen to Trump voters many of these reasons make sense. Just sit down with a Trump voter and listen to their story.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 11:00:47 AM
I don't understand why so many people are puzzled by Trump's appeal? It isn't like this is a fringe group, it's almost half the voters in the US. People voted for Trump for a variety of reasons and if you listen to Trump voters many of these reasons make sense. Just sit down with a Trump voter and listen to their story.

We can't all be upper class Weed farmers with a PhD in basketweaving from Berkeley ;-)  But no, he didn't appeal to me.  And given my phobia of sexual abusers, he never could.  But that applies to many public figures.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 10, 2020, 11:18:26 AM
I don't understand why so many people are puzzled by Trump's appeal? It isn't like this is a fringe group, it's almost half the voters in the US. People voted for Trump for a variety of reasons and if you listen to Trump voters many of these reasons make sense. Just sit down with a Trump voter and listen to their story.
I was, and am, still puzzled by trump's followers.  Part of that, is that trump is the symptom and not the actual source of the disease.  I had not an inkling that our society was THAT sick.  Now I know.  Trump tapped into that huge part of our society that I thought was only a tiny fraction.  I think I ended up being the 'stupid' one in that I really thought racism was on the run, white nationalism/nazism was waning, the middle class was making headway, immigration was still mostly favored, and that conservatism (of the William Buckley type) was losing steam--and I could go on and on.  That tRumpism is not the cause and just the symptom will take awhile for me to fully grok.  I also knew that all organized religions are a generally destructive force, I simply did not realize just how MUCH christianity is destructive to this society.  As it turns out, the Howard Zinn's of the world were under reporting just how sick this society was/is.  That will take awhile for me to take in and re-evaluate it all. 

And I have talked with my trumpy neighbors (which is all of them!) about things and I walk away wondering about their overriding hate. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 11:34:44 AM
I was, and am, still puzzled by trump's followers.  Part of that, is that trump is the symptom and not the actual source of the disease.  I had not an inkling that our society was THAT sick.  Now I know.  Trump tapped into that huge part of our society that I thought was only a tiny fraction.  I think I ended up being the 'stupid' one in that I really thought racism was on the run, white nationalism/nazism was waning, the middle class was making headway, immigration was still mostly favored, and that conservatism (of the William Buckley type) was losing steam--and I could go on and on.  That tRumpism is not the cause and just the symptom will take awhile for me to fully grok.  I also knew that all organized religions are a generally destructive force, I simply did not realize just how MUCH christianity is destructive to this society.  As it turns out, the Howard Zinn's of the world were under reporting just how sick this society was/is.  That will take awhile for me to take in and re-evaluate it all. 

And I have talked with my trumpy neighbors (which is all of them!) about things and I walk away wondering about their overriding hate.

Where you puzzled by people who voted for Nixon?  Just asking.  I found both candidates in 2016 and 2020 morally reprehensible ... though after the fact, I thought policy wise, Trump did better than I expected.  I had expected that he would require everyone to take up golf and play at his golf courses on a fixed schedule ;-)

No, Bill Buckley never ran for President.  Had he done so, the IQ and vocabulary of the US would have gone up ;-)  But then, he was a Catholic.  I don't see Trump as religious at all, purely materialistic, same as Biden.  Bill Buckley kept the John Birchers out of the Republican party, just as Hillary kept the Bernie Bros out of the Democrat party.  But not this year, the Dems were so desperate they embarrass Satan himself ;-(
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 10, 2020, 11:49:58 AM
The only way out is subsequent generations that largely ditch the faith. Not there yet, but the boomers are dying out and it seems their kids do have better vision.
That seems to be the case, though I'm flabberghasted about the why of it.

The Boomer generation counts among its ranks plenty of smart, compassionate people and plenty of egomaniacal knuckledraggers.  And when it comes time to vote, they almost always favor the latter.  Why?

And it's not just elections: these people have had meltdowns about alleged satanic cults, meltdowns about video games (curiously timed at the height of mainstream adoption), meltdowns about pressing 1 for english, meltdowns about gay marriage, meltdowns at Target about trans bathrooms, and finally, meltdowns about masks (though that last one seems to be trending younger).  Mass hysteria after mass hysteria about stuff that's not nearly as frightening as it's made out to be.  And don't get me wrong, not all boomers are like this.  But people who are like this are disproportionately boomers.  What happened?

If I had to hazard a guess, it's due to this generation experiencing the shift from general news (news delivered by the Big Three networks) to ideologically-tailored news (Fox News) as well as being mentally unprepared for the emergence of the internet and more vulnerable to internet-based disinformation.

Subsequent generations have shown somewhat more resilience (for now), but that could change the instant someone builds a better mousetrap braintrap.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 11:51:38 AM
Good men build good economies
Good economies lead to bad men
Bad men build bad economies
Bad economies lead to good men

Yes, it is inevitable that there is one world atheist government under the UN or CCP etc and everyone lived happily ever after ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on November 10, 2020, 11:51:57 AM
Trumps “secret” is not really a secret. It shows how much distain we have for politicians that a “business” man as lousy as he is, is considered far better than another politician. I hope they realize this or the next one to try will be a real Lex Luther.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 11:53:35 AM
Jesus as businessman/politician is the answer ... nobody else need apply ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on November 10, 2020, 11:58:50 AM
It's been reported that Trump's crowdfunding to fight the legal battles against the "voter fraud" he is claiming to have happened, is actually being used to pay his campaign debts... lol

https://www.salon.com/2020/11/09/fine-print-on-trump-legal-challenge-fundraising-emails-says-money-will-be-used-to-pay-campaign-debt/
https://news.yahoo.com/trumps-flurry-campaign-defense-fund-094844061.html
https://www.businessinsider.com/donations-trump-legal-fund-spent-on-paying-off-campaign-debt-2020-11
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 10, 2020, 12:00:37 PM
.... I also knew that all organized religions are a generally destructive force, I simply did not realize just how MUCH christianity is destructive to this society....
As many great minds have pointed out, the Nazis had centuries in the practice of worshiping a charismatic savior and disparaging competing religions. When Adolph came along, they were primed and ready to be saved. As for the godless communist dictatorships, they were also ready to simply swap one totalitarian celestial party with a community of earthly administrators for an earthly party and a secret celestial totalitarian leader.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 10, 2020, 12:27:28 PM
. This is why so many rabid tRumpsters happen to go big on Cheese-us and suck up conspiracy after conspiracy. The only way out is subsequent generations that largely ditch the faith. .

"Trump is fat Jesus. He's grab-them-by-the-pussy Jesus. He's I'll-eat-nothing-but-cheeseburgers-if-I-want-to Jesus. He's I-want-to-punch-them-in-the-face Jesus. He's go-back-to-your-shithole-countries Jesus. He's no-apologies Jesus."

https://youtu.be/j3xBUNIkA_c
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 12:34:26 PM
As many great minds have pointed out, the Nazis had centuries in the practice of worshiping a charismatic savior and disparaging competing religions. When Adolph came along, they were primed and ready to be saved. As for the godless communist dictatorships, they were also ready to simply swap one totalitarian celestial party with a community of earthly administrators for an earthly party and a secret celestial totalitarian leader.

Jesus is responsible for Hitler?  Read Constantine's Sword by James Carroll.  The real skinny on German anti-Semitism.  Of course anti-Semitism is a world-wide phenomenon.  Complicated by the popular impression in the 20s-30s that Communism was part of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion (a Okrana propaganda borrowed from French Catholic anti-Semites).  I blame Arminius ... the German patriot that destroyed Varus' legions.  The Germans had a penchant for strong leaders long before Christianity.  The French got their anti-Semitism both from Christianity, and from Voltaire.

Current anti-Semitism is separate from anti-Israeli .. though anti-Semites combine the two.  It is clear that Obama and Biden are anti-Israel.  Trump is clearly pro-Israel.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 10, 2020, 12:38:32 PM
The elephant in the room is always religion. If you are taught as a kid to swallow all that nonsense; you are set-up to TRUELY believe anything and everything, as along as it suits your purposes. It lowers the rationality threshold standards of a society. This is why so many rabid tRumpsters happen to go big on Cheese-us and suck up conspiracy after conspiracy. The only way out is subsequent generations that largely ditch the faith. Not there yet, but the boomers are dying out and it seems their kids do have better vision.

What drives me crazy is that both sides HAVE to be religious. Both sides consider religiosity a virtue. Yet, despite this, Republicans will still pretend that the entire Democratic party are atheists. Yeah, I fucking wish atheists had any power in government. I'm tired of religion being used as a crutch in this country.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 12:41:52 PM
What drives me crazy is that both sides HAVE to be religious. Both sides consider religiosity a virtue. Yet, despite this, Republicans will still pretend that the entire Democratic party are atheists. Yeah, I fucking wish atheists had any power in government. I'm tired of religion being used as a crutch in this country.

i would be happy if there was a clear choice ... Black party, White party, Religious parties (you can't have just one), atheist party ... then people could clearly vote for what they like.  How about a float boat fishing party?  Anyone who does fish from a float boat votes for that party, but no other?  Fly fishermen will be burned if they vote for the wrong party ;-)

I am tired of stupidity being used as a crutch for everything in life, but "it is the way".
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 10, 2020, 01:04:09 PM
Trump is supposedly raising funds for an election legal battle but it's actually going towards paying off campaign debt (https://www.businessinsider.com/donations-trump-legal-fund-spent-on-paying-off-campaign-debt-2020-11)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 01:09:55 PM
Money is evil.  Please send me yours ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 10, 2020, 01:22:33 PM
Trump is supposedly raising funds for an election legal battle but it's actually going towards paying off campaign debt (https://www.businessinsider.com/donations-trump-legal-fund-spent-on-paying-off-campaign-debt-2020-11)

I can't even begin to think of all the ways Trump is going to use his term as president to financial advantage for his family and himself.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 01:26:41 PM
I can't even begin to think of all the ways Trump is going to use his term as president to financial advantage for his family and himself.

So if money is evil, send me yours?  Bidens, Clintons, Obamas all make moolah.  Good if a Democrat?  Politicians have been doing this since Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 10, 2020, 01:50:42 PM
It's been reported that Trump's crowdfunding to fight the legal battles against the "voter fraud" he is claiming to have happened, is actually being used to pay his campaign debts... lol

https://www.salon.com/2020/11/09/fine-print-on-trump-legal-challenge-fundraising-emails-says-money-will-be-used-to-pay-campaign-debt/
https://news.yahoo.com/trumps-flurry-campaign-defense-fund-094844061.html
https://www.businessinsider.com/donations-trump-legal-fund-spent-on-paying-off-campaign-debt-2020-11

Yeah, just one more scam for money on his way out the door, which, of course, will hit him where the Good Lord split him.

I'm convinced that the right-wing echo chamber spewing Russian propaganda is responsible for the vast majority of Trump supporters.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 10, 2020, 02:02:39 PM
Money is evil.  Please send me yours ;-)

Money IS evil, so I have none to send you.

;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 10, 2020, 02:04:51 PM
I can't even begin to think of all the ways Trump is going to use his term as president to financial advantage for his family and himself.

Tromp and his progeny are all suckers - they suck up money like Roombas.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 10, 2020, 02:08:43 PM
It's been reported that Trump's crowdfunding to fight the legal battles against the "voter fraud" he is claiming to have happened, is actually being used to pay his campaign debts... lol
Gah, I saw your post, liked it, then posted the same news article later.  D'oh!  Person, man, woman, camera, I forget the last one lol.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 10, 2020, 02:12:28 PM
I think it was "TV."


LOL
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 10, 2020, 02:29:31 PM
Eric Trump tweets that Minnesota should go out and vote (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/election-eric-trump-twitter-minnesota-vote-b1720416.html)

He's like a human version of Internet Explorer.

Lindsay Graham: "If Republicans don’t challenge and change the U.S. election system, there will never be another Republican president elected again" (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/11/09/lindsey-grahams-curious-conspiratorial-argument-why-trump-should-fight-election-results/)

Saying the quiet part loud.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 10, 2020, 02:52:54 PM
Also, Biden met with Pence to work together on a smooth transition from one administration to another.

...exactly 4 years ago.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 04:59:51 PM
Money IS evil, so I have none to send you.

;-)

You are the only person posting here who isn't a hypocrite.  That is a very admirable thing.

Biden wasn't Hillary in 2016.  She continued the Obama supported coup all the way to today and beyond.  Obama, Biden and even George W have been useful demons for Hillary.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 10, 2020, 05:50:56 PM
I can't even begin to think of all the ways Trump is going to use his term as president to financial advantage for his family and himself.
......'going to use' (insert) and has been using....................
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 10, 2020, 07:43:02 PM
Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) — Refusing to concede a presidential election he lost, President Donald Trump sought falsely to take full credit for drugmaker Pfizer Inc.’s announcement that its COVID-19 vaccine may be 90% effective, wrongly asserted the vaccine news was delayed until after Election Day to undermine him and repeated baseless claims of voter fraud.
I'm thinking this must have been posted already, but I can't remember seeing it.

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-ap-fact-check-donald-trump-business-virus-outbreak-108077c4b716db604ee49b42c6d64af0
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 10, 2020, 08:17:08 PM
Fact-checking Trump is a full-time job!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 10, 2020, 08:20:13 PM
You are the only person posting here who isn't a hypocrite.
I seriously doubt that. I've seen little hypocracy from the regular posters, but the drive-bys are often full of it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 10, 2020, 08:23:21 PM
It seems like for the last week or so, I've become aware of main stream media qualifying Trump statements as false.  So much of the time, these incidents are reported as "Trump falsely stated that bla bla bla."  Unless I haven't been paying close attention, this is new to the news.  In the past, one of pet peeves about the news outlets, both TV and news print is that they would happily report whatever a politician said, and then just let it go.  OK, I get that.  They simply report and strictly speaking that is the news.

But isn't that the same thing as reporting fake news?  Sure, people can take it or leave it, but a lot of people will believe it because it's on the news.  It struck me as the media was shirking responsibility and adopting a position of, "Hey we didn't say it.  We just reported it."  My suspicion was that they were afraid of politicians, and I understand politicians in response, may clam up, resulting in less news to report.

But I remember some old saw that freedom and democracy were closely tied to a free press, and I never actually accepted that my perception was entirely accurate, but where does freedom of the press end?  Twitter and Facebook are finally exercising some responsibility with the stuff they allow on their sites.  I agree with the idea of a freedom of the press, but I think that over the years we may have neglected the idea of responsibility of the press.  And I'm hoping that we continue to see more responsible press in the future.  That goes for both parties.  Trump just happens to be the worst so he's taking the brunt of the fact checking right now.  But for Godsakes, if you are going to print political rubbish, at least identify it as such.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 10, 2020, 09:07:52 PM
It seems like for the last week or so, I've become aware of main stream media qualifying Trump statements as false.
Yeah, they finally grew a backbone now that they know he's done for.  Previously, it would just be a "controversy" and he-said-she-said between Trump and whoever was more or less forced to defend reality that week.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 10, 2020, 09:18:16 PM
(https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2020/11/browning-tweet-featured.jpg?resize=865,452)

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/republican-dean-browning-gay/

As a gay goth Methodist archbishop for Jeb, I'm shocked and appalled that people would lie on the internet in a sad bid to manipulate key identity groups among one's political rivals.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 10, 2020, 10:30:14 PM
Dean Browning is black?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 10, 2020, 10:35:18 PM
Dean Browning is black?
Not any more than I'm a gay goth archbishop.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 10, 2020, 11:13:51 PM
PA postal worker admits his allegations of ballot tampering were trumped up, got $136,000 from GOP for fake news (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/us-election-postal-claims-fraud-ballot-votes-pennsylvania-b1720810.html)

Paying these people a dollar is like buying gasoline for the getaway van.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 11, 2020, 08:02:52 AM
Trump saying "every vote should be counted," sounds like Democrats weren't saying this long before Trump wanted to stop the vote count.  Maybe if he says it louder, people will think this was his idea.  Maybe like no one ever had such an idea before.  Count every vote!  Yeah, that seems like a good idea, why didn't I think of that?

I saw Chris Wallace on Fox news saying, "When you go to the court to present a case, it's up to the plaintiff to present evidence that the court can consider, but Trump doesn't have any evidence.  It's kind of like Trump is asking the court to find the evidence for him."  Then Trump can stop the count our throw out ballots.

Watching Trump's personality decomposition in the last few months is a case study for psychiatry.  It's hard to think straight under extreme duress, and that's what seems to be happening to Trump.  It almost seems like this is the first time in his life that Trump has been forced to face reality.  It's unfamiliar ground, and if you're not used to it, it's frustrating as Hell as your thinking becomes more and more disconnected.  In the past, he was able to invent his own reality and he could live in it just fine, while others thought they were just watching  a grown up version of "Alice in Wonderland."

I'll go out on a limb and say that Trump entered the presidency with the fantasy dream of finally being able to do anything he wanted.  Everyone knows only dictators get to do that, and even Trump's cries of, "But I wanna.  I wanna," just weren't enough to make his dream come true.  Maybe, just maybe, there's enough inertia behind our democracy to keep it going for another four years.  That would be really nice.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 11, 2020, 08:09:34 AM
If you have a bad day at work, come home and kick the dog.  If you're the president who can't get reelected, fire the Secretary of Defense or take away millions of people's health insurance, but don't bottle that anger up.  Alternatively, you might consider growing up.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 11, 2020, 10:22:53 AM
I seriously doubt that. I've seen little hypocracy from the regular posters, but the drive-bys are often full of it.

I would characterize the drive-bys as ignorant.  People here see politics and religion as different, but the psychological coping (see new string in medical section) mechanisms are the same.  G-d as Father or Trump/Biden as Father.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 11, 2020, 12:07:10 PM
Nearly 80% of Americans accept that Biden won, 72% say the loser must concede defeat (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-idUSKBN27Q3ED)

About 6 in 10 Republicans and almost every Democrat said Biden won.  If you think Republicans are unusually slow to accept reality on this, just check out how they view climate change.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 11, 2020, 12:41:22 PM
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-packages/fact-check-video-shows-police-collecting-discarded-amazon-packages-not-thousands-of-trump-ballots-idUSKBN27Q2JC

Quote
Social media users have claimed a video shows police finding thousands of ballots for U.S. President Donald Trump dumped in a field. This is not true; local police report that the footage actually shows discarded Amazon packages.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 11, 2020, 12:54:54 PM
Remember when they used to take pictures of buses and use that as evidence that "illegals" were bused in to vote for Democrats?  (clearly, there's no other explanation)

That's exactly the sort of standards of evidence one might expect for people who thought 2011 was the End Times.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 11, 2020, 01:02:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bigN7DY3SKQ

President Biden sure has his work cut out for him.  And tactically, I dunno if offering these people an olive branch is the right call, but I guess you have to try, fruitless as it may be.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 11, 2020, 01:36:40 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bigN7DY3SKQ

President Biden sure has his work cut out for him.  And tactically, I dunno if offering these people an olive branch is the right call, but I guess you have to try, fruitless as it may be.

Yes, a peace pipe, like the Great White Father always offers to the indigenous ;-)

Democrats are the "illegals" since 1860.  Most Democrats in 1860 were in the North (South having a much smaller population).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 11, 2020, 01:58:07 PM
Baruch, things are not now as they were 160 years ago. Catch up with current events!

;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 11, 2020, 03:05:34 PM
Baruch, things are not now as they were 160 years ago. Catch up with current events!

;-)

Dems still favor slavery, just are less racist about it.  They can never be forgiven.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on November 11, 2020, 07:43:22 PM
I love how Baruch has conversations with everyone and no one at the exact same time.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 11, 2020, 08:15:02 PM
I guess he never gets lonely that way.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 11, 2020, 08:30:13 PM
I guess he never gets lonely that way.

My cats are smarter than dog owners ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 11, 2020, 10:48:20 PM
LGBTQ candidate wins House seat, Poor Boys gangmember loses (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1246790)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 12, 2020, 09:00:23 AM
But BLM supporters did win office, and Sharia supporter won office ;-)

Pfaux-ahontas and Hillary and Bernie all want cabinet positions in the sleepy Joe administration ... alien criminal clown world, like the movie It.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 12, 2020, 11:44:24 AM
Nature: Trump uses Twitter to divert discussion on politically damaging topics (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19644-6)

Ever wonder why Trump says something completely batshit and extremely attention-grabbing?  It's because some politically-damaging news recently came out and he wants you to pay attention to him and not the politically-damaging news.

Nothing we didn't already suspect, the internet in general and Twitter in particular have been used to set the agenda (i.e. determine what gets discussed and what doesn't).  It should be noted that Trump's technique has parallels to how they do things in China - where the news cycle gets saturated with stories that the PRC doesn't find politically objectionable to overwhelm coverage of stories that they do.

And if you think Trump and other Republicans haven't picked up on this, you're wrong.

There are other interesting tidbits in the article:

Quote
In the United States, the gradual introduction of Fox News coverage in communities around the country has been directly linked to an increase in Republican vote share
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 12, 2020, 12:03:02 PM
Nature: Trump uses Twitter to divert discussion on politically damaging topics (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19644-6)

Ever wonder why Trump says something completely batshit and extremely attention-grabbing?  It's because some politically-damaging news recently came out and he wants you to pay attention to him and not the politically-damaging news.

Nothing we didn't already suspect, but the internet in general and Twitter in particular have been used to set the agenda (i.e. determine what gets discussed and what doesn't).  It should be noted that Trump's technique has parallels to how they do things in China - where the news cycle gets saturated with stories that the PRC doesn't find politically objectionable to overwhelm coverage of stories that they do.

And if you think Trump and other Republicans haven't picked up on this, you're wrong.

There are other interesting tidbits in the article:
Impressed with Biden already. I was reading in the den and the TV was on faintly in the other room. I heard a reassuring voice of reason intelligently speaking about health insurance and also about a task force that will provide a measured response to the pandemic as required. For a moment I thought I was just dreaming. I was awake !!!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 12, 2020, 12:42:47 PM
Impressed with Biden already. I was reading in the den and the TV was on faintly in the other room. I heard a reassuring voice of reason intelligently speaking about health insurance and also about a task force that will provide a measured response to the pandemic as required. For a moment I thought I was just dreaming. I was awake !!!
Same here.  I think we had a couple days without presidential scandal after the race was called, which was a breath of fresh air.  And I find myself more impressed than I normally would be by complete sentences and a good grasp on reality.

I'm sure conservatives are going to try to drum up hatred in the coming 4 years (Biden derangement syndrome, I believe they call it), but I don't think they're fully aware of just how much Trump Fatigue non-redcaps feel and how low standards have fallen during the Dark Reign.  If Biden doesn't start punching babies or shooting people on 5th avenue (you lose votes for that in blue states), then he might go down as the most beloved President since FDR.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 12, 2020, 02:16:14 PM
Lol, Biden the rebound president.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 12, 2020, 03:55:06 PM
Lol, Biden the rebound president.

You mean like the rolly polly inflatable clown toy? ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on November 12, 2020, 05:14:14 PM
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/2d9d2c671f9a6c9a4511a4231c0dda4b/tenor.gif?itemid=10143202)
Lol, Biden the rebound president.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 12, 2020, 09:29:41 PM
Lol, Biden the rebound president.
You kid, but on an emotional level, it's very similar to that.

The old boyfriend was a major-league asshole but some dark part of us was super into that.  The new one is a lot more respectable, if kinda vanilla.  Good background, stable employment, knows how to treat a lady, and he has two lovely dogs!

But when we broke up with our asshole ex, he didn't take it well - he claimed that we didn't mean it and says he doesn't need to pack because he doesn't intend to leave.  Pretty disturbing stuff.  In 2 months, when the lease is up, the new one is all set to move in and there might be a fight.  And it's not all that clear how that's gonna play out.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 13, 2020, 06:48:06 AM
But when we broke up with our asshole ex, he didn't take it well - he claimed that we didn't mean it and says he doesn't need to pack because he doesn't intend to leave.  Pretty disturbing stuff.  In 2 months, when the lease is up, the new one is all set to move in and there might be a fight.  And it's not all that clear how that's gonna play out.
He  seems to admire dictators.  Unless that was just some phony part of building relationships with foreign governments, it's pretty easy to see that he does not have much respect for voters or voting, and fraudulent elections would fit very well into his political strategies, which may explain why he seems to think everyone else is doing it.  A straight out power play doesn't seem like it could possibly succeed in America, although some Republicans probably wouldn't mind at all.  Right now, he's testing his options to see how much monkey business he can get away with as president.  If this doesn't work, his only open option involves being seated by the congressional delegation, or maybe he's thinking this new Secretary of Defense would call up the armed forces to keep him in office.  Sound crazy?  Yep, but then Trump has never acted rationally since he came into power.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 13, 2020, 10:31:31 AM
It's funny 'cause it's true.

https://youtu.be/VZ_0ORgyBDM
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 13, 2020, 11:13:20 AM
All theist votes are illegal = per atheists ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 13, 2020, 01:05:49 PM
Presidential Election ‘Most Secure’ In History, Top Security Experts At DHS Say

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/2020-election-most-secure-dhs_n_5fadd55cc5b6370e7e3158ca
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 13, 2020, 01:33:21 PM
GOP Senator says it's too soon to declare Biden President Elect because Puerto Rico isn't done counting yet (https://www.yahoo.com/now/texas-senator-suggests-too-soon-043000810.html)

(https://i.imgur.com/DMOj22z.png)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 13, 2020, 01:39:50 PM
GOP Senator says it's too soon to declare Biden President Elect because Puerto Rico isn't done counting yet (https://www.yahoo.com/now/texas-senator-suggests-too-soon-043000810.html)

(https://i.imgur.com/DMOj22z.png)

Umm... What? How do you make it to Senate without even knowing what is and is not a state? Also, this originated with a story from the NY Times? What are they on about?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 13, 2020, 01:43:17 PM
Umm... What? How do you make it to Senate without even knowing what is and is not a state?
"Do you not know, my son, with how very little wisdom the world is governed?" - Axel Oxenstierna, 1648
(An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 13, 2020, 01:45:07 PM
If you liked that, you'll love this:

GOP Senator can't even correctly identify three branches of government (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/senator-elect-tuberville-fresh-from-congressional-orientation-misidentifies-the-three-branches-of-government-11605273164)

He identified the three branches of government as House, Senate, and Executive.   :doh:

Quote
Tuberville told columnist Todd Stacy that he’d just gone through an abbreviated orientation for new lawmakers, noting “we all had to go through the same time, Republican and Democrat, and it was fun, a good group. They pretty much jam three days into a day and a half because of the COVID.”
It might be a good idea to take a whole week for this stuff.  It's kinda important.  Ideally, knowing the basics of civics would be a prerequisite for running for office, but I guess the GOP has to work with what they got.

Oh, and he also doesn't understand that Biden won.  That basic civics question is far from his only blunder.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 13, 2020, 02:03:39 PM
Presidential Election ‘Most Secure’ In History, Top Security Experts At DHS Say

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/2020-election-most-secure-dhs_n_5fadd55cc5b6370e7e3158ca

Might as well quote DNC as quote any MSM.  Huffpost is very DNC.

Yes, Dominion is as secure as the phone app at the Dem Iowa caucus ;-)  I bet I voted for Biden in my old precinct where I don't live anymore ;-))

You sure you want a nearly dead man as President of a nearly dead country?  Well Harris will fix that for you.  Her ancestors on her father's side were slave owners in Jamaica.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 13, 2020, 04:35:49 PM
Biden take Georgia

https://mail.yahoo.com/b/folders/1/messages/AHAeSbpERhHfX67iSQND8A8pJMY?.src=ym&reason=unsupported_browser&folderType=INBOX&showImages=true&offset=0&domain=nytimes.com

Holy Crap!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 13, 2020, 05:24:51 PM
2022 elections: Dems win every election by 100% just like East Germany ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 13, 2020, 09:46:52 PM
Another 4 years of Trump would be depressing for sure, but what bothers me more is that our system is vulnerable to a political power grab that removes voters from the process.  This is the kind of shit that happens in banana republics.  While 4 years of Trump is depressing, that this could happen in my country scares me.  I will admit real fear.  I'm reading it probably won't happen, but that's the problem.  There shouldn't be "probably won't" at all.  And if these loop holes in the constitution are not fixed, the ultimate collapse will happen just that much sooner.  The worst case scenario would be in the next two months.  OK not a collapse, but a new form of authoritarian government that does even more of whatever it wants than it does now.  I'm picturing some South American style government that is corrupt and totally self serving.  Right now... today... we are watching a potential crisis that in all my years, I'd never thought I would have to watch.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 13, 2020, 09:52:09 PM
  Right now... today... we are watching a potential crisis that in all my years, I'd never thought I would have to watch.
Yep!  Same here.  Have I been sent back to Germany, 1932????
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 13, 2020, 11:41:29 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t3GhBpOqKg
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on November 14, 2020, 01:34:48 AM
Video wins internet
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 14, 2020, 07:24:41 AM
Today's Alabama US Civics Lesson : The 3 branches of federal gov'ment are:
1) Donald
2) Ivanka (he'd date her...)
3) Jared
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 14, 2020, 10:23:41 AM
Today's Alabama US Civics Lesson : The 3 branches of federal gov'ment are:
1) Donald
2) Ivanka (he'd date her...)
3) Jared


1. Obama
2. Hillary
3. Biden

Biden and Obama as Dragonball Z characters?  That is a Chinese cartoon.  What drugs are you taking? ;-)

The voters are irrelevant.  You are slaves, stupid slaves, who vote for your own slavery and your own destruction (just like Athens).

“A revolution is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery; it cannot be so  refined, so leisurely and gentle, so temperate, kind, courteous,  restrained and magnanimous. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of  violence by which one class overthrows another.” - Ying chang Compestine

Think war is fun?  Think revolution is fun?  You will get a Trump dictatorship or a Harris dictatorship (Biden, don't make me laugh).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 14, 2020, 12:55:36 PM
55 Percent Of White Women, 18 Percent Of Black Men Voted For Donald Trump: Exit Poll
https://www.essence.com/news/politics/55-percent-white-women-trump-election-2020/

What the flying fuck!!!!!  Apparently Trump increased his vote totals across the board.  Yes, this is a sick, sick, ugly, stupid country!  White women 56% for the orange fuck???!!!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 14, 2020, 01:05:19 PM
55 Percent Of White Women, 18 Percent Of Black Men Voted For Donald Trump: Exit Poll
https://www.essence.com/news/politics/55-percent-white-women-trump-election-2020/

What the flying fuck!!!!!  Apparently Trump increased his vote totals across the board.  Yes, this is a sick, sick, ugly, stupid country!  White women 56% for the orange fuck???!!!
These were exit polls.  I don't know for sure, but it probably doesn't  include mail in ballots.  Remember what a rout it looked like when only election day ballots were being totaled?  This may fairly well reflect those votes.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 14, 2020, 01:40:13 PM
It still sickens me that Trump did as well as he did. It's one thing voting for the moron in 2016. But after four years of seeing him in action, they can't use ignorance as an excuse any more. These people saw him tearing children from their mothers, they saw several people who acted on his behalf being convicted of crimes (pleading guilty, in some cases), they saw him dismiss the Corona Virus as a Liberal conspiracy and do next to nothing to slow the spread, they saw him insult veterans alive and dead, and more, and they STILL voted for him. America is a nation full of idiots and assholes.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 14, 2020, 02:10:18 PM
These were exit polls.  I don't know for sure, but it probably doesn't  include mail in ballots.  Remember what a rout it looked like when only election day ballots were being totaled?  This may fairly well reflect those votes.
Didn't think of that.  Hope you are right.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 14, 2020, 02:47:45 PM
It still sickens me that Trump did as well as he did. It's one thing voting for the moron in 2016. But after four years of seeing him in action, they can't use ignorance as an excuse any more. These people saw him tearing children from their mothers, they saw several people who acted on his behalf being convicted of crimes (pleading guilty, in some cases), they saw him dismiss the Corona Virus as a Liberal conspiracy and do next to nothing to slow the spread, they saw him insult veterans alive and dead, and more, and they STILL voted for him. America is a nation full of idiots and assholes.
Case in point, a musician I have played with in bands before. Bad back, constant pain. Works PT as a landscaper. I showed him how to sign up on Healthcare.gov. Gets a $750/month subsidy. Finally getting set up to have back fixed. Votes for Trump.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on November 14, 2020, 04:46:51 PM
I keep thinking about Atwood’s “The Handmaid Tale” and wondering if we are slowly heading that way. Dam good book if you never read it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 14, 2020, 05:20:45 PM
Case in point, a musician I have played with in bands before. Bad back, constant pain. Works PT as a landscaper. I showed him how to sign up on Healthcare.gov. Gets a $750/month subsidy. Finally getting set up to have back fixed. Votes for Trump.

Of course. Vote for the side that thinks Obamacare = Socialism, wanted to replace it with something "better" themselves (it's not Socialism when they do it?), and yet failed to get passed the barebones planning stages in the whole four years they had to try.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 14, 2020, 05:40:29 PM
55 Percent Of White Women, 18 Percent Of Black Men Voted For Donald Trump: Exit Poll
https://www.essence.com/news/politics/55-percent-white-women-trump-election-2020/

What the flying fuck!!!!!  Apparently Trump increased his vote totals across the board.  Yes, this is a sick, sick, ugly, stupid country!  White women 56% for the orange fuck???!!!

Yes, you need to hunt down the feminism traitors and the black men traitors .. MLK was a Democrat Marxist right?  See ... Identity Politics is the 21st century version of the old plantation.  Get the cotton pickers to enjoy their servitude.

"The arrogance of liberal politicians knows no bounds..." ... just guilty of being human, a failed species, not liberal ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 14, 2020, 05:41:25 PM
I keep thinking about Atwood’s “The Handmaid Tale” and wondering if we are slowly heading that way. Dam good book if you never read it.

There are Southern Baptists hiding under your bed ... bwahaha.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 14, 2020, 05:42:38 PM
Of course. Vote for the side that thinks Obamacare = Socialism, wanted to replace it with something "better" themselves (it's not Socialism when they do it?), and yet failed to get passed the barebones planning stages in the whole four years they had to try.

Obamacare mandate, was the breaking point for me.  I would not pay $1000 per month per person for Dem Care (which is all insurance, not medical care, because of the high deductible).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 14, 2020, 08:03:23 PM
Uh... This was unexpected... The Trumpets are marching, chanting words I never thought I'd hear from them.

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1327662470467555329
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 14, 2020, 08:17:09 PM
Of course. Vote for the side that thinks Obamacare = Socialism, wanted to replace it with something "better" themselves (it's not Socialism when they do it?), and yet failed to get passed the barebones planning stages in the whole four years they had to try.
Not sure they are well enuff versed on political systems. It's simpler than that. It's about flags and "the pledge" and 1950s statues of R.E. Lee and "merry xmas" and illegal Mexicans sneaking over here to steal our jobs picking tomatoes. That is about the depth of it I am afraid.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 14, 2020, 08:22:30 PM
Uh... This was unexpected... The Trumpets are marching, chanting words I never thought I'd hear from them.

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1327662470467555329
The words are lovely, the intent, not so much.  This is like being breaking ranks with Al Qaeda because they're not radical enough and declaring your allegiance to Daesh instead.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 14, 2020, 08:32:10 PM
The words are lovely, the intent, not so much.  This is like being breaking ranks with Al Qaeda because they're not radical enough and declaring your allegiance to Daesh instead.

I saw a comment saying it's like Frankenstein's Monster turning against their creator. Seems like a very fitting analogy. But I still feel a bit of satisfaction hearing them say what we all know is true.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 14, 2020, 09:40:36 PM
I saw a comment saying it's like Frankenstein's Monster turning against their creator.
That implies an interest in science.  Maybe more like a poorly-controlled demon.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 14, 2020, 10:08:12 PM
That implies an interest in science.  Maybe more like a poorly-controlled demon.

I think it's more that Fox News created this monster, and now they're turning against them. If Fox News hadn't spent so much time kissing Trump's ass, maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. But they built up Trump as this flawless god, and now he's immune from even their criticism. Welcome to the "fake news" club, Fox News.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 14, 2020, 10:42:43 PM
I dunno, I could see this working in their favor.  This is just another in a long line of aggressive attempts in the Trump years to shift the Overton Window.  Instead of most cable news being mainstream and Fox News viewed as conservative, now it's most cable news viewed as liberal, Fox News viewed as mainstream, and whatever completely batshit network these people like now as conservative.

I mean, you wear a mask during a plague year and these people look at you like you're a commie.  Say that spending on social programs should match military spending* and they would straight up call you a commie.

(* not abolish military spending, not cut military spending, just suggest that spending going towards blowing away wedding guests should be balanced with helping Americans get back on their feet in the midst of an economic depression.  Is that really a radical proposal?  Or one that destroys capitalism?)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 15, 2020, 12:49:40 AM
Not sure they are well enuff versed on political systems. It's simpler than that. It's about flags and "the pledge" and 1950s statues of R.E. Lee and "merry xmas" and illegal Mexicans sneaking over here to steal our jobs picking tomatoes. That is about the depth of it I am afraid.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/17/34/6f/17346f941d967879cff8aab2bc71286e.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 15, 2020, 01:26:39 AM
It's seems like I heard FOX news starting to get critical of Trump as much as a year ago or more. I never understood why.  I thought maybe their political commentary had limits on how much bullshit it could report as news.  But that seemed too out of character to be a satisfactory explanation.  I can understand better why the Trump knuckle draggers would rebel against FOX, since it's just not the news they want to hear.  To me is looks like all part of the public hysteria that tends to run through American society.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 15, 2020, 02:02:06 AM
It's seems like I heard FOX news starting to get critical of Trump as much as a year ago or more. I never understood why.  I thought maybe their political commentary had limits on how much bullshit it could report as news.  But that seemed too out of character to be a satisfactory explanation.  I can understand better why the Trump knuckle draggers would rebel against FOX, since it's just not the news they want to hear.  To me is looks like all part of the public hysteria that tends to run through American society.
The news division and talking-heads division have been at odds most of this election season.  It's been fun to watch.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 15, 2020, 03:11:21 AM
I think it's more that Fox News created this monster, and now they're turning against them. If Fox News hadn't spent so much time kissing Trump's ass, maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. But they built up Trump as this flawless god, and now he's immune from even their criticism. Welcome to the "fake news" club, Fox News.

People will remember frankenstein as the monster, not its creator.

Quote
The form of the monster on whom I had bestowed existence was for ever before my eyes, and I raved incessantly concerning him.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 15, 2020, 10:54:10 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/8DFOykh.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 12:38:21 PM
I think it's more that Fox News created this monster, and now they're turning against them. If Fox News hadn't spent so much time kissing Trump's ass, maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. But they built up Trump as this flawless god, and now he's immune from even their criticism. Welcome to the "fake news" club, Fox News.

You are still trapped in MSM world.  Do you still use a rotary phone?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 12:39:30 PM
Uh... This was unexpected... The Trumpets are marching, chanting words I never thought I'd hear from them.

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1327662470467555329

You don't want to hear the words they say in private ;-(
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 12:40:29 PM
Case in point, a musician I have played with in bands before. Bad back, constant pain. Works PT as a landscaper. I showed him how to sign up on Healthcare.gov. Gets a $750/month subsidy. Finally getting set up to have back fixed. Votes for Trump.

Some people benefit from Dem policies, others don't.  It is the way.  I would have supported ACA if it made all medical free for every American.  It was a crooked deal to bail out the bankrupt health insurance companies, has nothing to do with medical care.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 12:41:09 PM
Not sure they are well enuff versed on political systems. It's simpler than that. It's about flags and "the pledge" and 1950s statues of R.E. Lee and "merry xmas" and illegal Mexicans sneaking over here to steal our jobs picking tomatoes. That is about the depth of it I am afraid.

All White people live in Alabama .. not.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 12:41:49 PM
That implies an interest in science.  Maybe more like a poorly-controlled demon.

Magical thinking is universal, even among some scientists ... cold fusion etc.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 12:45:52 PM
It's seems like I heard FOX news starting to get critical of Trump as much as a year ago or more. I never understood why.  I thought maybe their political commentary had limits on how much bullshit it could report as news.  But that seemed too out of character to be a satisfactory explanation.  I can understand better why the Trump knuckle draggers would rebel against FOX, since it's just not the news they want to hear.  To me is looks like all part of the public hysteria that tends to run through American society.

They had a partial change in ownership (Roger Ailes died), fired O'Reilly etc ... after they were shown the real Zapruder film ;-)  Rupert Murdoch is the greatest yellow journalist since William Randolph Hearst.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 12:46:21 PM
People will remember frankenstein as the monster, not its creator.

Nobody is as ignorant as an American ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: the_antithesis on November 15, 2020, 01:43:57 PM
Is it like a commonwealth?
So,.... communism?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 15, 2020, 01:52:42 PM
I keep thinking about Atwood’s “The Handmaid Tale” and wondering if we are slowly heading that way. Dam good book if you never read it.

I've been expecting for a while that America would become a theocracy, but for now it's still incremental, boiling the frog slowly. But it may not stay that way for long, given the huge number of people who want an authoritarian system based on biblical law. Those are the ones who have never read their Bibles. The form a theocracy might take is hard to see, though.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 15, 2020, 01:56:45 PM
That implies an interest in science.  Maybe more like a poorly-controlled demon.
.
Maybe a golem?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 15, 2020, 02:02:53 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/8DFOykh.jpg)

I don't think a million MAGAs showed up...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 03:21:21 PM
So,.... communism?

Technically, in the US commonwealth refers to several states including VA, MA, PA.  In British terms it refers to a defunct organization that replaced the British Empire, but was itself replaced by GB being F****d by Germany and France.

Communism is good.  Nobody has to work.  Everything will be free (to use) and free (of cost).  No need to use of petroleum because cold fusion and warp drive are real.  Wakanda!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 03:23:45 PM
.
Maybe a golem?

Correct.  You put an extract of the Communist Manifesto on paper, put that into the head of a clay homunculus and say magic Marxist words over him ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 03:25:40 PM
I've been expecting for a while that America would become a theocracy, but for now it's still incremental, boiling the frog slowly. But it may not stay that way for long, given the huge number of people who want an authoritarian system based on biblical law. Those are the ones who have never read their Bibles. The form a theocracy might take is hard to see, though.

In an alternative universe, Pat Robertson took over the US in 1988 (I was afraid of that too).  Back, back into the 80s with you!

Actually VP Pence could still do that.  So pray your Hail Marx on your proletarian beads.  There might not be a million at the march yesterday, but there are 71 million Trump voters who want to put y'all on Comet Pizza.

"Even asking that makes you a racist, misogynistic transphobe--you fascist!" ... no intelligent life on this planet, just posers.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 15, 2020, 03:47:34 PM
I don't think a million MAGAs showed up...
I get that it's hard for MAGAs to accept a Biden win.  After all their voter suppression, gerrymandering, and undermining the mail, the only way Democrats could have won was by cheating.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 05:49:11 PM
I get that it's hard for MAGAs to accept a Biden win.  After all their voter suppression, gerrymandering, and undermining the mail, the only way Democrats could have won was by cheating.

Y'all never accepted the Lincoln win (twice) or the Trump win in 2016 ... why should the MAGA people let any of you vote again?  You admit cheating?  To Venezuela with you! ;-)

Democrats have never suppressed voting, gerrymandered, tried to destroy the Post Office (Feinstein and her husband).  Of course the Republicans cheat too ... both of you are "deplorables" ;-))
Title: