Atheistforums.com

Humanities Section => Political/Government General Discussion => Topic started by: Jason Harvestdancer on July 03, 2020, 09:46:46 PM

Title: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on July 03, 2020, 09:46:46 PM
So, now that the Democrats have picked their candidate, we are supposed to pretend the third parties don't exist and concentrate ust on these two.

Let's have it,  stump for your preferred candidate.

Personally I think replacing Trump with Biden is like sitting your pants and then changing your shirt.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 03, 2020, 10:57:49 PM
(https://sadanduseless.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/campaign.png)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 03, 2020, 11:46:03 PM
The trick will be ... Biden & who??
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on July 03, 2020, 11:52:21 PM
Up until very recently, I was planning on either voting Green or writing in Gabbard. Since Biden actually stands a chance in my state now, I will probably vote for him and so long as the Republicans don't nominate someone as batshit as Trump next election use that one to start protest voting.

This election is unfortunately too important to waste my vote though.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 03, 2020, 11:57:00 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on July 03, 2020, 11:52:21 PM
Up until very recently, I was planning on either voting Green or writing in Gabbard. Since Biden actually stands a chance in my state now, I will probably vote for him and so long as the Republicans don't nominate someone as batshit as Trump next election use that one to start protest voting.

This election is unfortunately too important to waste my vote though.

Something I pondered for 44 years ... good luck ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on July 04, 2020, 01:16:28 AM
I'm almost tempted to vote for Trump just to see how bad things can possibly get.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on July 04, 2020, 02:31:35 AM
I'm voting for Biden. I live in a battleground state and have no interest in voting third party in this election. I see Trump as having done a particularly terrible job leading the country. I won't give a litany of his flaws and failures but the current state of the United States and its relationship with other countries is due in no small part to his mismanagement. My husband supported Trump but after his response to the COVID-19 pandemic he has lost faith, like many other Republicans, in Trump's ability to lead. Trump's presidency has gone beyond partisanship for us and made this election about removing someone who has proven he is incompetent.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on July 04, 2020, 03:47:11 AM
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on July 04, 2020, 01:16:28 AM
I'm almost tempted to vote for Trump just to see how bad things can possibly get.

Me too. I wanna see the world totally on fire.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on July 04, 2020, 08:08:39 AM
Quote from: Baruch on July 03, 2020, 11:46:03 PM
The trick will be ... Biden & who??

Good point.  It is a given that people will actually be voting for Biden's running mate to be president.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mermaid on July 04, 2020, 08:40:16 AM
How is this even a question?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on July 04, 2020, 09:07:44 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on July 03, 2020, 09:46:46 PM
Personally I think replacing Trump with Biden is like sitting your pants and then changing your shirt.
In thinking about all the presidential choices I have been asked to make over many years, this election offers the worst choices I have ever been given.  Trump thinks America is great.  Of course that's because he's running it.  Biden thinks it's great too, the only problem being that Trump is running it.  He seems to want to return to the Obama years, but Biden is no Obama, and those years are long gone.  Granted I think Obama was one of our better presidents since I've been old enough to vote.  But we've had so many shitty presidents that saying Obama was one of the better ones is hardly a ringing endorsement.  In fact it's a mostly worthless endorsement.   

Try to look past the partisan bullshit and look at America as a country right now.  Take away the Republicans and the Democrats and just look at the country.   If you don't think anything needs to change, then either Trump or Biden is a good choice.  If you think it needs change, realize that it didn't just get this way 4 years ago.  It's been a slow process for at least 50 years, and any candidate who doesn't advocate serious change is telling me that he sees the country as OK. 

I've lived through a lot of years in my early life that seemed like America was pretty great.  Flawed for sure, but great by comparison to a lot of other countries.  Today, I don't see a great country.  I see a bickering country festering with self hatred putting more energy into fucking the other guy than creating a better environment for everyone.  I won't be around much longer, but taking solace in the fact that I'm leaving the country in better shape than I found it is not going to be one of my dying thoughts.  I will have happy thoughts, thank goodness, but that just won't be one of them.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on July 04, 2020, 09:14:06 AM
Quote from: Mermaid on July 04, 2020, 08:40:16 AM
How is this even a question?

Good point.  During the Democratic Primary an effort was made to ensure we saw all 20 candidates.  Now that the major party primaries are over, we are only supposed to see two candidates.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mermaid on July 04, 2020, 10:14:14 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on July 04, 2020, 09:14:06 AM
Good point.  During the Democratic Primary an effort was made to ensure we saw all 20 candidates.  Now that the major party primaries are over, we are only supposed to see two candidates.
I see one candidate.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 04, 2020, 10:42:37 AM
Quote from: Mermaid on July 04, 2020, 10:14:14 AM
I see one candidate.

Hillary Clinton? ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 04, 2020, 11:14:10 AM
"Black people who were never slaves are fighting White people who were never Nazis over a Confederate statue erected by Democrats, because Democrats can’t stand their own history anymore.  This is somehow Trump’s fault.  Interesting." ... best comment on the Internet.  LARPing by crisis actors.  Probably triple agents like Robert Maxwell.

Never voted for Trump.  Never will.  But y'all need to step back from the drug stash you bought for 4th of July ;-)

I have decided I am too old to vote.  If I were voting, a 3rd party candidate would be my only choice.  Any 3rd party candidate.

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that." - Abraham Lincoln

Trump is waiting for the Darwin Award Democrats to fire on Ft Sumpter again.  He is tempting the Dems, the Dems aren't tempting him.  What Lincoln was doing.  "Go ahead, make my day" - Trump and Lincoln

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flt9K8vlJGE

"The deletion of historical memory and the renunciation of the heroes of the past paves the way for replacing the United States of America with something new. Maybe the Union of Soviet States of America?" ... UCSA ... Union of Chinese States of America?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 04, 2020, 03:01:42 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on July 04, 2020, 09:14:06 AM
Good point.  During the Democratic Primary an effort was made to ensure we saw all 20 candidates.  Now that the major party primaries are over, we are only supposed to see two candidates.
That's sorta how primaries work.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on July 04, 2020, 03:32:51 PM
#ImWithHer
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Sal1981 on July 04, 2020, 07:42:56 PM
Here's a whataboutism: What about #Unity2020 ?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 04, 2020, 10:52:49 PM
Quote from: Sal1981 on July 04, 2020, 07:42:56 PM
Here's a whataboutism: What about #Unity2020 ?

The two party system is the natural development of a democratic republican system of power sharing.  People alone are weak.  So they form parties, churches, companies, unions to magnify their competitive power (and individuals lose their personal power to do this).  Eventually, in a city or a great nation, a nearly balanced two party system is formed because third parties are weak and never get anywhere (sorry).  This is partly because of the US system (Presidential system with pluralistic representation) say compared to Italy (Parliamentary system with proportional representation).  The problem with parliamentary systems is that you are often forced into coalitions governments ... because the polity is too divided.

One can argue as some do, that a parliamentary system is better, that proportional representation is better.  But the name "Unity2020" is utopian.  If there was just one person in your country, and they weren't schizoid, then you will have unity ;-)  Otherwise, given the desire for power and money, unequal competition will result.  And of course we have the one party dictatorship model of China.  Unity by bayonet.  The reality of human nature is that I am willing to put a shiv between your ribs to keep what I have, and get what I don't have ;-(
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 05, 2020, 12:24:48 AM
Jason Harvester, correct me if I'm wrong but if memory serves right, you don't vote?  I think you opened the same thread before the previous election and before the one before that with the same 'why do we have two parties only' rant?

Yeah I get it. Everyone gets it. However, if you don't run for a cave after every election and live there till the next one, what is so surprising about all this? What's the deal? How does Trump vs someone confuse you under all these circumstances?



Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on July 05, 2020, 03:20:03 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on July 03, 2020, 09:46:46 PM
So, now that the Democrats have picked their candidate, we are supposed to pretend the third parties don't exist and concentrate ust on these two.

Let's have it,  stump for your preferred candidate.

Personally I think replacing Trump with Biden is like sitting your pants and then changing your shirt.

Well today is not the time to vote Libertarian. That party wants to act like Trump on steroids and burn everything and that means all the socialist programs, environmental and civil protections out the door. They even want to let the private sector run many things and have a naive approach to free trade and believe private companies are angels and won't screw us all to death.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on July 05, 2020, 08:52:54 AM
Actually I do vote, regularly, third party.

Of course "this is the most important election evar" just like in 1972, 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012, and 2016, so we can't afford to consider third parties.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 05, 2020, 08:53:19 AM
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on July 05, 2020, 03:20:03 AM
Well today is not the time to vote Libertarian. That party wants to act like Trump on steroids and burn everything and that means all the socialist programs, environmental and civil protections out the door. They even want to let the private sector run many things and have a naive approach to free trade and believe private companies are angels and won't screw us all to death.

Why I am not a Republican

Why I am not a Democrat?  Running everything from the center, by committee.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Sal1981 on July 05, 2020, 11:21:18 AM
Quote from: Baruch on July 04, 2020, 10:52:49 PM
The two party system is the natural development of a democratic republican system of power sharing.  People alone are weak.  So they form parties, churches, companies, unions to magnify their competitive power (and individuals lose their personal power to do this).  Eventually, in a city or a great nation, a nearly balanced two party system is formed because third parties are weak and never get anywhere (sorry).  This is partly because of the US system (Presidential system with pluralistic representation) say compared to Italy (Parliamentary system with proportional representation).  The problem with parliamentary systems is that you are often forced into coalitions governments ... because the polity is too divided.
You write that as if coalition governments are bad. I view them as a net positive because of the vibrant discourse and *gasp* concessions and *double gasp* compromises the elected official are willing to make. This in turn results in genuine discussion in public - I'm wary of people talking about disagreements between political parties as if nothing gets done.

Quote from: Baruch on July 04, 2020, 10:52:49 PM
One can argue as some do, that a parliamentary system is better, that proportional representation is better.  But the name "Unity2020" is utopian.  If there was just one person in your country, and they weren't schizoid, then you will have unity ;-)  Otherwise, given the desire for power and money, unequal competition will result.  And of course we have the one party dictatorship model of China.  Unity by bayonet.  The reality of human nature is that I am willing to put a shiv between your ribs to keep what I have, and get what I don't have ;-(
#Unity2020 was, in large part, started by Bret Weinstein and has gotten a life of its own apart from its originators. I wouldn't dismiss it that easily offhand. We'll see if this rock will fly.

The people who only desire power and wealth are simpletons.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 05, 2020, 12:15:42 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on July 05, 2020, 08:52:54 AM
Actually I do vote, regularly, third party.

Of course "this is the most important election evar" just like in 1972, 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012, and 2016, so we can't afford to consider third parties.
Do libertarians have any better policies this year than they did in 2016, 2012, etc?  Got a plan for pandemics?  Global warming?  Universal healthcare?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 05, 2020, 03:13:40 PM
Quote from: Sal1981 on July 05, 2020, 11:21:18 AM
You write that as if coalition governments are bad. I view them as a net positive because of the vibrant discourse and *gasp* concessions and *double gasp* compromises the elected official are willing to make. This in turn results in genuine discussion in public - I'm wary of people talking about disagreements between political parties as if nothing gets done.
#Unity2020 was, in large part, started by Bret Weinstein and has gotten a life of its own apart from its originators. I wouldn't dismiss it that easily offhand. We'll see if this rock will fly.

The people who only desire power and wealth are simpletons.

Yes to the first part.  Per Bismarck if you don't like how sausage is made, you won't like how legislation is made ;-)  If you don't want disagreements, have a dictator, who is not schizoid.

Bret Weinstein was cucked by the degenerates at Evergreen College.  Like 2016 when Bernie was cucked by a couple of BLM bitches.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 05, 2020, 03:15:31 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on July 05, 2020, 12:15:42 PM
Do libertarians have any better policies this year than they did in 2016, 2012, etc?  Got a plan for pandemics?  Global warming?  Universal healthcare?

Not a libertarian, but if you define that as a completely random free person, having any plan for anything is a contradiction.  A totally free person (lunatic?) isn't concerned about any collective problems.  They don't even have any concerns of their own.  Think of a beach bum in California during an LSD trip.

Sorry Dems, Trump made a pretty good speech yesterday, best since the State of the Union.  NYT of course, the former employer of Karl Marx, didn't like it.

Elite opinion?  If I can make a million dollars as a Democrat, I will support them.  If I can make a million dollars as a Republican, I will support them.  Complete degenerates, think Caligula.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on July 05, 2020, 05:01:40 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on July 05, 2020, 12:15:42 PM
Do libertarians have any better policies this year than they did in 2016, 2012, etc?  Got a plan for pandemics?  Global warming?  Universal healthcare?

Yes.

I greatly want everyone to have access to affordable quality healthcare, so I want to find the reason the costs have risen faster than inflation and cut those reasons out.  The funny thing is if I am right about the reasons you will accuse me of wanting to prevent the poor from accessing healthcare while I attack the reasons.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 05, 2020, 05:07:22 PM
Well, I suppose you have no choice but to keep your genius plan secret then.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 06, 2020, 04:10:27 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on July 05, 2020, 08:52:54 AM
Actually I do vote, regularly, third party.

Of course "this is the most important election evar" just like in 1972, 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012, and 2016, so we can't afford to consider third parties.

My mistake. But then yeah, not that different than not voting. Because voting is not just about the party you want to vote for but also about the election system, the other parties, the hierarchy of the parties and the parties you don't want to vote for. Which is bullshit in theory and I absolutely agree with you on that.

However, it doesn't work that way. There is a fundemantal flaw in the understanding of concepts of 'democracy', 'constitution' or 'freedom' every where around the world but it seems that in the States it is another dimension because majority of Americans -from opposing groups- overestimate themselves, their culture, the system... That's a big mistake. It has a very big price.

This election is different. I'm not discussing if it is important for you or why you think they all have the same importance. Because if you can count all of those dates from the past 50 years like throwing confetti from a bag while voting for a third party, then Trump winning or losing doesn't really change anything for you. 

Jason, when people say 'we we will go 20 years backwards' they don't mean we are going to land in 90s like in science fiction movies. These people are hell bent on to change your system completely. I know it sounds comical to you now but going backwards in these circumstances, with these dynamics mean turning a lot of places to old Detroit in the States. And eventually breaking/dividing the United States of America.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 06, 2020, 09:14:51 AM
Elections are US permissive (fake) or Australian mandatory (fake).  The point of police is to protect the Elite.  The point of elections is to pacify the simps.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on July 06, 2020, 11:59:47 PM
I never thought I'd be in agreement with Draconic, but:
People that vote for libertarians are less respectable than any other voters, in my opinion. Yes, even less respectable than republican voters.

Plus, if you really think voting 3rd party is a good choice, let me offer you this suggestion that would do more to benefit you as well as our country. Try jerking off on to the voting booth and walk out without even voting. I guarantee it will have more of an outcome than voting for Jo Jorgensen or any other 3rd party candidate.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on July 07, 2020, 12:21:55 AM
"I'm Jo Jorgensen and I want you to know that I believe my job is to do nothing"
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on July 07, 2020, 02:32:00 AM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 06, 2020, 11:59:47 PM
I never thought I'd be in agreement with Draconic, but:
People that vote for libertarians are less respectable than any other voters, in my opinion. Yes, even less respectable than republican voters.

Plus, if you really think voting 3rd party is a good choice, let me offer you this suggestion that would do more to benefit you as well as our country. Try jerking off on to the voting booth and walk out without even voting. I guarantee it will have more of an outcome than voting for Jo Jorgensen or any other 3rd party candidate.

I don't know. I often feel that if I had been an American., I would be very tempted to vote on neither Republicans nor democrats. But I think I would vote, third party if I found one that fit my wants better.

Would that vote ever make a difference? Probably no more than your specific vote ever would. Probably no less either. And if the only reason why it's concidered foolish to vote third party is that nobody ever votes third party,... Well that's the problem right there innit?

Look, I am in no place to get high and mighty. I think our country has the record of any industrialized western country of going without an elected government.

But I respect people who vote for voting, no more no less than that. And whatever choice, I respect making a choice equally. Even if one option aligns more than the other.

It's just that... Maybe I'm still young. But this American system does quite often seem to lead to a choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. And no matter how much change y'all seem to want, you're just going to repeat that cycle every four years. And if that don't change,  how can anything else?

Break the wheel, khaleesi.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on July 07, 2020, 06:55:29 AM
I don't have libertarian values. I don't see protecting property rights, promoting laissez-faire capitalism and maximizing individual autonomy as the primary purpose of government. I prefer a strong government devoted to maximizing the well-being of its citizens than minimal government. I would join a third-party based on human-centered capitalism where humanity is more important than money; the unit of an economy is each person, not each dollar; and markets exist to serve our common goals and values.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on July 07, 2020, 10:29:13 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on July 07, 2020, 02:32:00 AM
I don't know. I often feel that if I had been an American., I would be very tempted to vote on neither Republicans nor democrats. But I think I would vote, third party if I found one that fit my wants better.

Would that vote ever make a difference? Probably no more than your specific vote ever would. Probably no less either. And if the only reason why it's concidered foolish to vote third party is that nobody ever votes third party,... Well that's the problem right there innit?

Look, I am in no place to get high and mighty. I think our country has the record of any industrialized western country of going without an elected government.

But I respect people who vote for voting, no more no less than that. And whatever choice, I respect making a choice equally. Even if one option aligns more than the other.

It's just that... Maybe I'm still young. But this American system does quite often seem to lead to a choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. And no matter how much change y'all seem to want, you're just going to repeat that cycle every four years. And if that don't change,  how can anything else?

Break the wheel, khaleesi.
There needs to be two things to happen in this country, and possibly other countries, but I'm just going to talk for the U.S.

1- There needs to be an abolishment of the party system, all together. No republican party, no democrat party, no 3rd parties. none of it. Just candidates and what they will do.
This will cause a few things to happen: voters will be forced to actually look in to who the candidates are and what they are going to do. Lobbies will also have a harder time bribing candidates, because of instead of bribing the party as a whole, they have to specifically target individuals. It will be more costly for them to spend money on the candidates this way and candidates will be bought out way less frequently.
2- there also needs to be an abolishment of the electoral college. For me, my vote literally doesn't matter. I live in New Jersey. A very "blue" state. Even though I will be voting Biden, it doesn't matter because Biden will win New Jersey no matter what... even if Biden literally shits himself in the debates, NJ will vote Biden.
In red states, no matter what, Trump will win.
It's all about targeting swing states. The fly-over states with no population and no industry... other than Iowa with their corn and Idaho with their potatoes, they have almost nothing. It doesn't matter if Biden or trump campaigns in texas or california or New York.... those states will always vote the way they will vote, but if the candidates target the swing states strategically, they win. And that is bullshit. 
It needs to be individual votes. Not "did you win this state? here is 11 points to your victory!"

Look at this map. When you know which ones are red and which are blue, historically. You know which candidate has "free points towards victory" and then they just need to close the gap in the rest of the places.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3c/Electoral_College_2016.svg/1280px-Electoral_College_2016.svg.png)

These two things need to be legislated. Not just "i'm gonna vote for who I think is the best" when that candidate is a 3rd party candidate.... Because unfortunately going off of the "if everyone voted for who they genuinely thought was the best, we wouldnt have a problem" isn't how shit works. It's not reality. We need a solidified solution. A legislation.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on July 07, 2020, 12:29:06 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 07, 2020, 10:29:13 AM
There needs to be two things to happen in this country, and possibly other countries, but I'm just going to talk for the U.S.

1- There needs to be an abolishment of the party system, all together. No republican party, no democrat party, no 3rd parties. none of it. Just candidates and what they will do.
This will cause a few things to happen: voters will be forced to actually look in to who the candidates are and what they are going to do. Lobbies will also have a harder time bribing candidates, because of instead of bribing the party as a whole, they have to specifically target individuals. It will be more costly for them to spend money on the candidates this way and candidates will be bought out way less frequently.
2- there also needs to be an abolishment of the electoral college. For me, my vote literally doesn't matter. I live in New Jersey. A very "blue" state. Even though I will be voting Biden, it doesn't matter because Biden will win New Jersey no matter what... even if Biden literally shits himself in the debates, NJ will vote Biden.
In red states, no matter what, Trump will win.
It's all about targeting swing states. The fly-over states with no population and no industry... other than Iowa with their corn and Idaho with their potatoes, they have almost nothing. It doesn't matter if Biden or trump campaigns in texas or california or New York.... those states will always vote the way they will vote, but if the candidates target the swing states strategically, they win. And that is bullshit. 
It needs to be individual votes. Not "did you win this state? here is 11 points to your victory!"

Look at this map. When you know which ones are red and which are blue, historically. You know which candidate has "free points towards victory" and then they just need to close the gap in the rest of the places.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3c/Electoral_College_2016.svg/1280px-Electoral_College_2016.svg.png)

These two things need to be legislated. Not just "i'm gonna vote for who I think is the best" when that candidate is a 3rd party candidate.... Because unfortunately going off of the "if everyone voted for who they genuinely thought was the best, we wouldnt have a problem" isn't how shit works. It's not reality. We need a solidified solution. A legislation.

All very well put and thought out.

But, without any attempts at sounding condescending... Without judgment, ill intent or any malice whatsoever....

Do you think any elected Democrat or republican will enforce that change?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 07, 2020, 12:56:51 PM
A general discussion from elsewhere that is illuminative ...

https://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/883/why-is-proportional-representation-not-considered-in-any-of-the-us-states

In the US proportional representation is based on geography and population.  Not on race, party or ideology.  The general term for problems with this is "malapportionment".  The US House was set up this way in the Constitution.  The US Senate and the WH were not.  The Senate was originally picked by processes in each state, per state legislature or per governor.  By Constitutional amendment, this was changed in regard to the US Senate in 1913.  At that time, senators started to be directly elected by popular vote two in each state.  Originally, the VP was the person with the second highest vote in the Electoral College.  In the case of a tie, there was no rule initially (disastrous in the election of 1800, leading to the fight between Thomas Jefferson, Aaron Burr and the duel between Burr and Hamilton).  There were no political parties per se, but there were strong ideologies at work, party organization was incoherent.  Then in 1804, the 12th Amendment provided that the President and VP are elected separately (no gold ring for #2) and that the Senate will decide ties in the Electoral College.

The application of geographical/population proportional representation trickled slowly into state and local politics as states were formed and their constitutions amended.  It wasn't until the Baker vs Carr decision of the SCOTUS in 1962, that the Federal Constitution was interpreted to mandate US-style proportional representation in the state legislatures. Before that malapportionment was common, with some voting districts having much more power per voter than other districts.  Local politics had kept this cosy arrangement legal.

Proportional representation based on party is the system usually used in Parliamentary democracies.  Israel's system is partly based on ethnicity (Non-Jews are partly disenfranchised) as was White S Africa.  The resolution of ideology representation vs party representation is resolved by new ideologies forming new parties (usually unsuccessfully in the US system).  There is no guarantee that a particular party will have representation in a parliamentary system, if that party is too small or dispersed over constituencies.  And of course the battle continues with gerrymandering of the redistricting process and ideological factions within parties.

The party system in any form of elected government, is a natural development out of variance and competition.  This was true by the 4th national election in the US (and the ennui between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson).  I don't see that ever changing, because it requires changing reality.  Of course in one-party states one is free to attempt to deny reality.  The Electoral College and any other part of the US Constitution can be amended, but that takes action by the government in DC, and agreement by a 75% of the states.  Any attempt to modify the legal pyramid (based on the US Constitution and from there down to local municipalities) requires working within the system.  There are problems with that.

But working outside of the existing legal system (that exists at any one time) is insurrection.  Essentially that is what the Confederacy did, legally state by state, but there was no provision in the US Constitution then or now, to provide for orderly secession.  There had already been a fight over nullification (that a state can directly refuse to support federal law) and the secession movement of 1860 was a continuation of that.  Earlier, SC had tried to nullify a federal law, under slave-holding President Andrew Jackson, and he had threatened to invade SC if they tried.  Sanctuary cities are a present example of nullification.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 07, 2020, 01:08:11 PM
At election time, one is free to imagine candidates one likes better, parties one likes better, or political machinery one likes better.  Which may or may not be related to some desired change to policy (legal marijuana for example).  This blows off steam from the friction of the body politic (how can I benefit myself and my friends and screw my opponents), which the MSM enflames.  The alternative to elections of some sort, or at least confirmation votes of those appointed (members of the President's cabinet or SCOTUS are confirmed by the US Senate) is dictatorship or chaos.  Even in Red China, there must be intense competitions happening within the Communist Party, that are opaque to the Chinese public.  Need I mention Lin Biao?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on July 07, 2020, 09:34:49 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on July 07, 2020, 12:29:06 PM
All very well put and thought out.

But, without any attempts at sounding condescending... Without judgment, ill intent or any malice whatsoever....

Do you think any elected Democrat or republican will enforce that change?
If we riot, yes.

We either have to, as citizens, make them see profit in it, or see the adverse things that can happen for them, if change doesn't occur. I personally like the latter of the two. Fuck those assholes. They don't care about us... just themselves.

I'm fully in favor of countrywide riots until they buckle.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 07, 2020, 09:41:48 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on July 07, 2020, 02:32:00 AM
I don't know. I often feel that if I had been an American., I would be very tempted to vote on neither Republicans nor democrats. But I think I would vote, third party if I found one that fit my wants better.

Would that vote ever make a difference? Probably no more than your specific vote ever would. Probably no less either. And if the only reason why it's concidered foolish to vote third party is that nobody ever votes third party,... Well that's the problem right there innit?
In a proportional voting system (or ranked voting), that would work just fine.  But the USA's first-past-the-post voting system is structured to only truly support a two-party system.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 07, 2020, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 07, 2020, 09:34:49 PM
If we riot, yes.

We either have to, as citizens, make them see profit in it, or see the adverse things that can happen for them, if change doesn't occur. I personally like the latter of the two. Fuck those assholes. They don't care about us... just themselves.

I'm fully in favor of countrywide riots until they buckle.

Yes, there is profit, if on the Soros payroll ;-)  People who are anti-capitalist value ideology, not money.  I don't exactly disapprove though.  I deny the reality of morality, ethics or legality.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 04:06:30 AM
In my opinion, the United States of America is the only country where people could actually collapse a system to build a new one. Actually, this is the second round of THE attempt to change this system which was already started in the past. But it is not a sprint, it's a marathon. You have passed the half mark. It is not just hard protesting either. You need to unite against the right nutters in every part of life from daily life to professional. You could do it actually.

This is not just about politics or elections. All groups against need to meet on a common denominator and stand up for each other. Learn to say NO to every kind of provocation. Boycotts of protests of all kinds. 

If people learned to say no to be manipulated, resisted to be triggered, stop watching/listening any kind of propaganda and unite even without lifting a finger, every politician, party, state size corporate around the world would shit themselves right there and then and we would have smelled it from where we sit. LOL

What a dream...pffft

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 06:28:08 AM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 07, 2020, 09:34:49 PM
If we riot, yes.

We either have to, as citizens, make them see profit in it, or see the adverse things that can happen for them, if change doesn't occur. I personally like the latter of the two. Fuck those assholes. They don't care about us... just themselves.

I'm fully in favor of countrywide riots until they buckle.

Might want to step it up to actual domestic terrorism.
Honestly, if those are your means, you'll practically need a full fledged civil war.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 10:24:18 AM
That's neither the intention, nor the means but the eventual end if forced for survival.

Not just talking about the States. It's good advice to everyone who thinks they're untouchable about not to get too comfortable with the popcorn and the feeling of fake safety.

After all, you westerners are generally, really, really stupid in the end.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 11:03:25 AM

Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 10:24:18 AM

After all, you westerners are generally, really, really stupid in the end.

That can be extended to all of humanity. IMHO.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Sal1981 on July 08, 2020, 11:32:04 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 11:03:25 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 10:24:18 AM
After all, you westerners are generally, really, really stupid in the end.

That can be extended to all of humanity. IMHO.

Meanwhile trying to make sense of the chaos.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 11:58:17 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 11:03:25 AM


That can be extended to all of humanity. IMHO.

See, we can't all be Central Asian horsemen with compound bows and big mustaches ;-)  Of course the Han Chinese (thru the Mulan cartoon) would tell you that those kinds of people are "problematic".
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 11:59:21 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 04:06:30 AM
In my opinion, the United States of America is the only country where people could actually collapse a system to build a new one. Actually, this is the second round of THE attempt to change this system which was already started in the past. But it is not a sprint, it's a marathon. You have passed the half mark. It is not just hard protesting either. You need to unite against the right nutters in every part of life from daily life to professional. You could do it actually.

This is not just about politics or elections. All groups against need to meet on a common denominator and stand up for each other. Learn to say NO to every kind of provocation. Boycotts of protests of all kinds. 

If people learned to say no to be manipulated, resisted to be triggered, stop watching/listening any kind of propaganda and unite even without lifting a finger, every politician, party, state size corporate around the world would shit themselves right there and then and we would have smelled it from where we sit. LOL

What a dream...pffft

You are such an idealist.  And think that the US is special, just like R or D politicians.  Who knew?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 12:00:14 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 06:28:08 AM
Might want to step it up to actual domestic terrorism.
Honestly, if those are your means, you'll practically need a full fledged civil war.

Dems gotta do what Dems gotta do.  How about civil war in Belgium?  Sound good?  No?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 12:01:17 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 11:03:25 AM


That can be extended to all of humanity. IMHO.

Not only when one part describes themselves as the epitome of that humanity and the rest as the other, sweety.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 12:03:42 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 10:24:18 AM
That's neither the intention, nor the means but the eventual end if forced for survival.

Not just talking about the States. It's good advice to everyone who thinks they're untouchable about not to get too comfortable with the popcorn and the feeling of fake safety.

After all, you westerners are generally, really, really stupid in the end.

In the end, all individuals fail at survival.  Just ask my parents et al.  Whether this "quantum meme" of culture continues rolling along is secondary, but is everything to collectivists.  That and the "salt boy" wants to control the ocean.  From time to time, in spite of people trying to understand it or to prevent it or to start it or control it ... major "solitary waves" happen.  And famous people, who didn't create the big wave, but who surf the wave, get to act like they are in charge, not Chaos (oldest Greek god).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 12:04:45 PM
Quote from: Sal1981 on July 08, 2020, 11:32:04 AM
That can be extended to all of humanity. IMHO.


Meanwhile trying to make sense of the chaos.

Sounds impossible to me.  Isn't that a self contradictory sentence?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 12:05:46 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 11:59:21 AM
You are such an idealist.  And think that the US is special, just like R or D politicians.  Who knew?

And you are such a moron but I don't slap it with you. No, I don't think the US is special, I just know it is a concept -like too much people on earth- more than a country and trying to describe you some bits you can't see. I wish you would listen. At least a bit. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 12:08:02 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 12:01:17 PM
Not only when one part describes themselves as the epitome of that humanity and the rest as the other, sweety.

Everyone is part of their own master race, population of one.  Whether they group into larger groups is guaranteed, because it is survival, just as you say.  A game we all lose eventually.  Think of the world as "Ship of Fools" all fighting for the non-functional life boats, while much more divided than into crew vs passengers but men vs women & children.  Mortality is hard to think about individually, let alone collectively.  Tribes rise and fall, but the individuals in every tribe are doomed.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 12:12:27 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 12:05:46 PM
And you are such a moron but I don't slap it to you. No, I don't think the US is special, I just know it is a concept -like too much people on earth- more than a country and trying to describe you some bits you can't see. I wish you would listen. At least a bit.

So you don't think we are special as people, but possess a political "secret sauce" that can be implemented by any ethnic group or mix of ethnic groups?  Vladimir Putin and Emperor Xi beg to differ.

You think, I think, that America is special, other than I happen to live here?  If I were born in Germany, and an adult in Nazi times, I should support the Third Reich ... same with any other country or time.

Yes, there are too many people, but who says?  If people are devalued (as I often argue) then population should be reduced, to reduce liability.  If people are valued, then more people is an asset.  Nauru vs China?  Of course, it is hard to understand another, but we try.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Sal1981 on July 08, 2020, 12:13:52 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 12:04:45 PM
Sounds impossible to me.  Isn't that a self contradictory sentence?
I admit "trying" is doing the heavy lifting in that sentence.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 12:22:40 PM
Quote from: Sal1981 on July 08, 2020, 12:13:52 PM
I admit "trying" is doing the heavy lifting in that sentence.

Would you believe ... trying to make sense of a civil war/world war?  That isn't chaos, that is deliberate.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Sal1981 on July 08, 2020, 12:32:58 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 12:22:40 PM
Would you believe ... trying to make sense of a civil war/world war?  That isn't chaos, that is deliberate.
I could probably trace the underpinnings for a civil war or a world war and understand it.

My point was more of a less-than-salient attempt at a point about the senselessness and indecipherability  of reality. I'm not as optimistic as physicists - or what have you - attempting to explain it, or that any oné person can hold all this shit in their head simultaneously. We specialize for a pretty damn good reason.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 12:34:56 PM
Quote from: Sal1981 on July 08, 2020, 12:32:58 PM
I could probably trace the underpinnings for a civil war or a world war and understand it.

My point was more of a less-than-salient attempt at a point about the senselessness and indecipherability  of reality. I'm not as optimistic as physicists - or what have you - attempting to explain it, or that any oné person can hold all this shit in their head simultaneously. We specialize for a pretty damn good reason.

This is why people make up ideologies.  We put together a pet system of meaning, and then force fit events to it.  Revisionism isn't just for historians.  The meaning of current events is clear, if you are a Marxist or a Capitalist.  Centrists on the other hand ...

The US is in the final throws of inevitable change that will result in national communism - if you are a Stalinist
The US and the rest of the world is in the final throws of inevitable change that will result in international communism - if you are a Trot.
The US is a hegemon with many competitors, let free competition happen so that the market can decide - if you are a US capitalist.
France is the political and cultural capital of humanity - Jacobins in Paris shortly before the guillotine terminated them

“They think they will come to power.  That will never happen of course.  They will be lined up against the wall and shot.” - Yuri Bezmenov talking about the “useful idiots”.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 01:39:52 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 12:01:17 PM
Not only when one part describes themselves as the epitome of that humanity and the rest as the other, sweety.

The fact That relatively few people who live in 'better conditions' tend to think like that because of those conditions, doesn' t make those in 'worse conditions' smarter. Were the places reversed, I bet the same thoughts would be held by the others. And in fact, group think is prevalent throughout the globe.

Because in general people are stupid, selfish and in no way shape or form 'inherently good' or altruistic. All people. No matter where 'power' resides. Be it west, east, south or north.

We suck. We can deal with that. Or we can't.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 01:44:31 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 12:00:14 PM
Dems gotta do what Dems gotta do.  How about civil war in Belgium?  Sound good?  No?

Sounds plausible. :( more than a few grenades have exploded in my city. Though they are suspected of being drug-related instead of politics.
Then again we are the epitome of artificialness when countries are concerned.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 02:13:01 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 01:44:31 PM
Sounds plausible. :( more than a few grenades have exploded in my city. Though they are suspected of being drug-related instead of politics.
Then again we are the epitome of artificialness when countries are concerned.

We can hope it is only drug crime.  But when some political party lines up with the local criminal element, that creates a new problem.  Now you have both SJWs and killers working together.  Why were the French royals executed?  Because they were in conspiracy with foreign powers, to regain power.  That was a bad idea.  What if in 1788, the French Left wanted the Turks to invade France to help defeat the royalists?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 02:14:57 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 01:39:52 PM
The fact That relatively few people who live in 'better conditions' tend to think like that because of those conditions, doesn' t make those in 'worse conditions' smarter. Were the places reversed, I bet the same thoughts would be held by the others. And in fact, group think is prevalent throughout the globe.

Because in general people are stupid, selfish and in no way shape or form 'inherently good' or altruistic. All people. No matter where 'power' resides. Be it west, east, south or north.

We suck. We can deal with that. Or we can't.

Yeah, the thing is the fact that the person who wrote his post and the person who liked it, are white heterosexual males talking about 'oh some people bad and stupid some or not'.

I've made a decision to act like a human in this forum, and I'm gonna stick to that as much as I can. But you are so fucking DUMB and CLUELESS about real life, sometimes I really have no idea how to act.

And this is not something I -or anyone- could explain in a post. 

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 02:25:52 PM
You are full of yourself?  Nah, inconceivable! (you know who you are)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhXjcZdk5QQ

You people are just ... funny villains.  Smart enough to not start a land war in Asia, but not smart enough to avoid the poisoned chalice.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 04:48:23 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 02:14:57 PM
Yeah, the thing is the fact that the person who wrote his post and the person who liked it, are white heterosexual males talking about 'oh some people bad and stupid some or not'.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 12:01:17 PM
Not only when one part describes themselves as the epitome of that humanity and the rest as the other, sweety.

Alright then...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 05:25:10 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 04:48:23 PM


Alright then...

OK. If it is not please tell me.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 05:27:08 PM
This post is dedicated to Jason Harvestdancer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8scSwaKbE64
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 05:53:02 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 05:25:10 PM
OK. If it is not please tell me.

No, thanks. I think it is fine. Wouldn't know what I could contribute to that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 06:03:34 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 05:53:02 PM
No, thanks. I think it is fine. Wouldn't know what I could contribute to that.

NO, It's NOT FINE. And you perfectly know what you contribute to or not. Let me spell it for you: LGBT+
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on July 08, 2020, 06:17:21 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2020, 06:03:34 PM
NO, It's NOT FINE. And you perfectly know what you contribute to or not. Let me spell it for you: LGBT+

Okay, now you're just plain starting to lose me. I'm talking about contributing to the conversation you and I are having. Not sure what exactly you are getting at here.

Edit: Just saw your three posts in "The Last Person to post wins Episode VIII". Guessing you being drunk might have something to do with this miscommunication?
No worries. Enjoy the buzz, will see your posts post drunkness.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on July 08, 2020, 07:12:58 PM
My electoral calculus is pretty straightforward -- the Democrats started off with the simple fact that nearly any of the candidates down to the third tier would be a better president than Trump has been.  I'd've been perfectly happy to vote for Sanders, Warren, Harris, Buttigieg -- the only ones that would have given me pause were Gabbard, Williamson and Bloomberg.  And I will be perfectly happy to vote for Biden this fall.  First choice?  No.  Better than the alternative?  By lightyears.  Simply repairing our relationship with the other Western democracies will be worth it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Sal1981 on July 09, 2020, 11:41:13 AM
Quote from: Baruch on July 08, 2020, 02:25:52 PM
You are full of yourself?  Nah, inconceivable! (you know who you are)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhXjcZdk5QQ

You people are just ... funny villains.  Smart enough to not start a land war in Asia, but not smart enough to avoid the poisoned chalice.


You've chosen your poison?

Anyways progress has intermediary steps, in most cases, much like trying to jump up a wall, when you can use the fucking stairs to get up. Get Trump out of the White House.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 09, 2020, 12:20:00 PM
Get all politicians out of Washington.  Return to Crown Colony status with King George III, Huzzah!

"TRUMP FINALLY DEPLOYS FEDS TO CRUSH CRIME SURGE, NEW POLLS SHOWS BLM RIOTS LEAD TO TRUMP LANDSLIDE" .. Federal cops, not National Guard.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 09, 2020, 05:54:35 PM
Quote from: trdsf on July 08, 2020, 07:12:58 PM
My electoral calculus is pretty straightforward -- the Democrats started off with the simple fact that nearly any of the candidates down to the third tier would be a better president than Trump has been.
Mine isn't so much calculus as it is basic math (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/506549-jill-biden-promises-if-bidens-elected-no-more-betsy-devos).  While this primary process didn't go how I wanted (I didn't want petroleum flakes) and was kinda sketchy besides, I can't deny that Biden's a lot better than the alternative and perhaps some good can come out of it (https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/506432-sanders-biden-climate-task-force-calls-for-carbon-free-electricity).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 14, 2020, 07:52:07 PM
"White House Folds On Decision Barring Foreign Students From Online-Classes-Only This Fall" ... good, the ICE decision was hasty, even if (not) all out of state students are Chinese.

"Solomon: Joe Biden's Energy Adviser Aided Kremlin Nuclear Agenda" ... still covering up Uranium One, and blaming it on Trump

"Biden Unveils $2 Trillion Plan To Move US To "100% Clean Energy" By 2035" ... Environment Czar AOC?  Michael Moore already showed this is a scam (unfortunately). "A chicken in every pot, and a Tesla in every garage." ... another Tesla ran into the back of a stopped police car while on auto.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 15, 2020, 03:10:02 PM
Trump flails and fails against Biden (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/difficult-attack-vanilla-trump-s-throwing-everything-biden-nothing-sticks-n1233097)

QuotePresident Donald Trump and his campaign have spent months deploying a series of attacks depicting Joe Biden as weak, unfit and a tool of leftists.

But as Biden rises in the polls, it's becoming increasingly clear that the attacks aren't sticking. So Trump's mission to define Biden to voters has proven difficult.
I've seen some of the negative ads and so far it's just basic brain-dead republican talking points.  "Radical leftist who will increase taxes and create burdensome regulations!"  It tellingly omits exactly which policies are radical (policies that are watered-down versions of stuff our European allies accomplished decades ago) and who considers them to be radical, who these taxes will mainly apply to (it's fun to watch people who make 20k a year be outraged by the existence of estate taxes and capital gains taxes), and what problems these regulations are designed to address.

My favorite anti-Biden smear so far is that he's some super far-left commie.  Oh man, those are real gut-busters.

Trump really went all in on statues, which is weird considering most Americans' concerns are far more mundane.  Simple stuff like not dying because some idiot can't cover his face, not getting evicted, getting back into the workforce without becoming a casualty of it, and access to affordable healthcare.  Problems that Trump and his buddies have never experienced in their entire silver-spoon lives.

It's the economy, stupid!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 15, 2020, 04:25:49 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on July 15, 2020, 03:10:02 PM
Trump flails and fails against Biden (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/difficult-attack-vanilla-trump-s-throwing-everything-biden-nothing-sticks-n1233097)
I've seen some of the negative ads and so far it's just basic brain-dead republican talking points.  "Radical leftist who will increase taxes and create burdensome regulations!"  It tellingly omits exactly which policies are radical (policies that are watered-down versions of stuff our European allies accomplished decades ago) and who considers them to be radical, who these taxes will mainly apply to (it's fun to watch people who make 20k a year be outraged by the existence of estate taxes and capital gains taxes), and what problems these regulations are designed to address.

My favorite anti-Biden smear so far is that he's some super far-left commie.  Oh man, those are real gut-busters.

Trump really went all in on statues, which is weird considering most Americans' concerns are far more mundane.  Simple stuff like not dying because some idiot can't cover his face, not getting evicted, getting back into the workforce without becoming a casualty of it, and access to affordable healthcare.  Problems that Trump and his buddies have never experienced in their entire silver-spoon lives.

It's the economy, stupid!

Nope, Joe Biden isn't a communist.  He will be a ventriloquism dummy for commies AOC, BLM and Bernie Sanders.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 15, 2020, 04:28:21 PM
"Kanye West Is Reportedly Pulling Out Of Presidential Race After Polling At Just 2% In National Survey" ... sad, guess BPDM (Black Politicians Don't Matter) is a thing.

"Police Say Texas A&M Student Who Found Racist Notes On His Car Put Them There" ... so many KKK out there (not) the Dems have to fake it.

"Another Poll Finds Biden Beating Trump - Except Most Surveyed Believe 'Silent Majority' Will Hand President Win" ... CIA will fix the election, as they have since 1960.  CIA has done a great job preventing Americans from running their own country ;-))

"Over A Third Of Americans Believe Biden Is Incapable Of Debating Trump" ... those are the Republicans.  So do Independents or Democrats even have an IQ above 80?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 16, 2020, 01:26:27 PM
"Biden campaign responds to Police association jumping ship, endorsing Trump" ... if I were my nephews, and Biden's house caught on fire or was broke into I would stay at the station with my coffee and donuts ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on July 18, 2020, 04:14:40 PM
I suppose since third parties in general and the Libertarian Party in particular are so bad I have to choose between a mentally challenged senile pedophile sex offender and a mentally challenged senile pedophile sex offender.  Which senile sex offender is better?  I really don't know.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 18, 2020, 04:54:34 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on July 18, 2020, 04:14:40 PM
I suppose since third parties in general and the Libertarian Party in particular are so bad I have to choose between a mentally challenged senile pedophile sex offender and a mentally challenged senile pedophile sex offender.  Which senile sex offender is better?  I really don't know.

Sex isn't a sin ;-)  Senility comes to all who live long enough.  Old people just hope we don't make fools of ourselves before we go ;-))

I usually didn't vote by party when I was still voting.  I voted for the individual, with a nod to the party being part of the whole package.  I have voted for the lesser of two evils, but I disavow that now, why I voted Gary Johnson in 2016 (my daughter did too).  Please one and all, consider politics to be a particularly vile spectator sport.  Unless you are in office, taking bribes and making false promises, you aren't really playing.  Bear baiting and cock fighting are more civilized.

Our system is the worst of the Romans combined with the worst of the Greeks.  The Greek part being a contradiction ... Plato's Republic (aka Guardians, hence the name of the vile Left newspaper) combined with the democracy he totally opposed.

"BIDEN AND TRUMP BOTH CLAIM FOREIGN INTERFERENCE??! SOO NO ONE WILL BELIEVE THE ELECTION RESULTS" ... there is no truth, just lies!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on July 19, 2020, 10:38:38 AM
Oh this outcome is going to be difficult.  if the margin of victory is less than the number of potentially contested votes both sides will not only claim the other side cheated they will also claim foreign influence.  Biden will say Trump is backed by the Russians and Trump will say Biden is backed by the Chinese.

By the way, how many elections did the US interfere with around the world?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 19, 2020, 10:52:48 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on July 19, 2020, 10:38:38 AM
Oh this outcome is going to be difficult.  if the margin of victory is less than the number of potentially contested votes both sides will not only claim the other side cheated they will also claim foreign influence.  Biden will say Trump is backed by the Russians and Trump will say Biden is backed by the Chinese.

By the way, how many elections did the US interfere with around the world?

Satan backs both parties.  The Chinese and Russians are innocent ;-)

"ANTIFA LEFTISTS TORCH PORTLAND POLICE UNION IN NIGHT 52 OF RIOTS, MEDIA BLAMES TRUMP AND POLICE" ... Portland is queer ;-)  The mayor is also the chief of police.  No separation of powers.  Also I suspect that the mayor is the local head of AntiFa.  Arson is protest?  Yes, all Black male crimes are reparations ;-) ... but why is Black on Black crime the majority of their many crimes?  Yes, White cops make you take drugs.  Just ask George Floyd.

Yes the mayor of Portland is in charge of the WH ... sure, wait until you get over your DTs, druggie.

Again, N Ireland is the model.  Sinn Féin = DNC, IRA = AntiFa.

My daughter and I agree that the Feds should have uniforms, so you can tell who you are dealing with.  Marked cars also.  But the uniform should be Judge Dredd style.  And armed with flame throwers.  That way they can go to registered Dem voter homes, and eliminate the commie and Covid infections at once (sarc)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5tFAb53VwA

If you see Judge Dred approach, you will not try to resist arrest like George Floyd ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qolk_rDA9xU
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Rosycheeked_rebel on July 19, 2020, 04:46:47 PM
NULL
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 19, 2020, 05:40:50 PM
Quote from: Rosycheeked_rebel on July 19, 2020, 04:46:47 PMA huge chunk of people from the left are still planning on writing in Bernie or whoever, and making it known getting rid of Trump will not be the end all be it. But a lot of them have drunk the Biden Kool-Aid. This man will not last a year in office.
What is this based on?  Gut feelings?  Cause I'm looking at fairly recent polls that have about 87% of Bernie voters voting for Biden (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/upshot/democrats-united-poll-election.html) at the end of the day.  I mean, FFS it would take a pretty bizarre Bernie supporter to prefer Bernie completely out of the picture over the Bernie-Biden taskforce.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 19, 2020, 05:54:19 PM
And before I forget, some polls have Biden leading by 15 points (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/19/biden-trump-polls-matchup-369261), much more than Clinton.  I was getting some 2016 deja vu B.C. (before coronavirus) but this crisis has changed all that.  Trump's favorability has gone into the toilet, and while he will still capture 40-44ish percent of the votes (gotta love the poorly educated), that's not enough to win.

Trump's strength is 2016 is that he was a political unknown with a populist message and people were fed up with the status quo.  In 2020, Trump is very much defined - and in extremely unflattering terms - that populist message is nowhere to be found, and Trumpism is basically associated with injecting bleach, spouting alternative facts, and cheering for police brutality and secret police.  It's not a good look.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 19, 2020, 06:00:30 PM
You people still believe polls?  And I am a Nigerian prince.

"Mail In Voting BACKFIRES On Democrats, Thousands Of Ballots From Young And Minority Voters REJECTE.." … remember when everyone was scandalized by the broken Iowa caucus Hillary made app?  100,000 mail in ballots weren't counted in the Dem California primary!  The primaries are invalid, so how valid can the general election get??

"More Voter Fraud EXPOSED, Mailman Pleads Guilty, Cat Gets Voter Forms, 2020 Chaos Has ALREADY Begu.." … my cats should get voter forms.  They are smarter than any D/R simian.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Sal1981 on July 20, 2020, 09:52:04 AM
Quote from: Baruch on July 19, 2020, 06:00:30 PM
You people still believe polls?  And I am a Nigerian prince.
Yeah, why even do statistics? :blahblah:
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 20, 2020, 10:04:16 AM
Quote from: Sal1981 on July 20, 2020, 09:52:04 AM
Yeah, why even do statistics? :blahblah:

Deplorables (voters) fail arithmetic.  Using statistics completely baffles them.  Very useful for politics.

There are honest figures and graphs, but never in politics.  Politics is where fact and truth go to die.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Sal1981 on July 20, 2020, 11:23:34 AM
Opinion polls is a sample size of the population of how they will vote. People know this.

Politics isn't even about facts or truth, that's a category error on your part - but you use this as a rhetorical device, miserably.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on July 20, 2020, 07:40:39 PM
Interesting news item today -- Ohio's former governor, Republican John Kasich, is expected to speak in support of the convention nominee this fall.  At the Democratic convention (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ohio-republican-kasich-expected-to-back-biden-at-democratic-convention-2020-07-20).

Kasich is still popular here in Ohio -- hell, I disagree with him up and down the line, but even I have some respect for him.  If he makes it okay for conservative-leaning Independents and non-sociopathic Republicans to vote Democratic, that's very nearly game over.  It certainly should have an effect here in Ohio, which is juuuuuust starting to tilt bluewards anyway.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 20, 2020, 07:52:49 PM
Quote from: trdsf on July 20, 2020, 07:40:39 PM
Interesting news item today -- Ohio's former governor, Republican John Kasich, is expected to speak in support of the convention nominee this fall.  At the Democratic convention (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ohio-republican-kasich-expected-to-back-biden-at-democratic-convention-2020-07-20).

Kasich is still popular here in Ohio -- hell, I disagree with him up and down the line, but even I have some respect for him.  If he makes it okay for conservative-leaning Independents and non-sociopathic Republicans to vote Democratic, that's very nearly game over.
It'd be nice for the Republicans as well.  They don't have to go down with the ship and won't be marginalized as Trump loyalists certainly will be.  And truth be told, the Democrats' right-wing isn't all that far from the Republicans' left-wing, if they can make it over there.  From there, they can just portray themselves as centrists and cast Trump as an extremist, rogue element who took over their party and steered it away from its core values.  I dunno if I'd be very convinced by that, but I'm not the one they'd be trying to convince.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on July 20, 2020, 08:02:24 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on July 20, 2020, 07:52:49 PM
It'd be nice for the Republicans as well.  They don't have to go down with the ship and won't be marginalized as Trump loyalists certainly will be.  And the Democrats' right-wing isn't all that far from the Republicans' left-wing, if they can make it over there.  From there, they can just portray themselves as centrists and cast Trump as an extremist, rogue element who took over their party and steered it away from its core values.  I dunno if I'd be very convinced by that, but I'm not the one they'd be trying to convince.
I disagree with one thing here: Trump is not a rogue element, he's a distillation of what the main Republican party has become over the last 40 years: intolerant, racist, misogynistic, plutocratic, dishonest (even by politicians' standards), irresponsible and hypocritical.  The real tragedy is that it's taken this long for a minority of well-placed Republicans to even notice there's a problem in their ranks.  I mean, yes, glad that it's happening, but they've let the party go so far beyond the edge, I question whether it can be brought back without an actual schism breaking it into two parties.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on July 20, 2020, 08:14:40 PM
Quote from: trdsf on July 20, 2020, 08:02:24 PM
I disagree with one thing here: Trump is not a rogue element, he's a distillation of what the main Republican party has become over the last 40 years:
It almost makes me look back in nostalgia remembering William F Buckley.  But that was back in the day when I could actually make some sense out of the conservative agenda.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 20, 2020, 08:24:09 PM
Quote from: Sal1981 on July 20, 2020, 11:23:34 AM
Opinion polls is a sample size of the population of how they will vote. People know this.

Politics isn't even about facts or truth, that's a category error on your part - but you use this as a rhetorical device, miserably.

It is how the people are chosen, how the questions are phrased.  Back to Commie school for you, comrade ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 20, 2020, 08:26:31 PM
Quote from: SGOS on July 20, 2020, 08:14:40 PM
It almost makes me look back in nostalgia remembering William F Buckley.  But that was back in the day when I could actually make some sense out of the conservative agenda.

He expelled the John Birch folks from the Republican party.  He was Catholic.  And he used enough words you could always learn new vocabulary from him ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on July 20, 2020, 10:06:14 PM
Quote from: SGOS on July 20, 2020, 08:14:40 PM
It almost makes me look back in nostalgia remembering William F Buckley.  But that was back in the day when I could actually make some sense out of the conservative agenda.
I never thought I'd look back fondly (well, kind of fondly) at William F (fucking!) Buckley.  :)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on July 20, 2020, 11:26:20 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on July 20, 2020, 10:06:14 PM
I never thought I'd look back fondly (well, kind of fondly) at William F (fucking!) Buckley.  :)
Shit, I never thought I'd look back fondly on Richard M (motherfucker!) Nixon!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 21, 2020, 06:51:17 AM
"America’s “Days of Rage”: The Extensive Left-Wing Bombings & Domestic Terrorism of the 1970s" - Black Panthers, SLA etc.  BLM even has a Weathermen veteran on their board.

"Tucker Carlson Livid; Dismantles The New York Times Over Alleged Plan To Dox Him" - Dems should just go John Wiles Booth
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Sal1981 on July 21, 2020, 09:23:25 AM
Quote from: Baruch on July 20, 2020, 08:24:09 PM
It is how the people are chosen, how the questions are phrased.  Back to Commie school for you, comrade ;-)
Wtf are you talking about? If I ask the same question phrased differently a second time, you expect different answers?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 21, 2020, 10:06:29 AM
Quote from: Sal1981 on July 21, 2020, 09:23:25 AM
Wtf are you talking about? If I ask the same question phrased differently a second time, you expect different answers?

It is unfair to shoot fish in a barrel.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 21, 2020, 10:08:44 AM
"McDonald's employees in Detroit walk off job to cheers as part of national strike" … this used to be called a General Strike in communist lingo.  Let all the Dems who still work, go home.  There are plenty of honest non-Dems who need to take those jobs.  Then any unemployed need to be deported to Somalia … I mean Minneapolis.

"Red Bull Fires "Woke" Diversity Directors Who Tried To Push For BLM Support... corporations which have pandered to the Dem IRA … are realizing that this violent revolution might be fatal to their stock prices ..."there will be fewer jobs for communist college graduates in the future.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 21, 2020, 06:03:28 PM
"Civil War 2.0 Is Upon Us, Far Left Breaches Federal Court, Democrats REJECT Federal Jurisdiction"... arrest all Dem members of Congress, announce martial law … suspend all elections.  Put Dem Congressman next to Ms Maxwell, so they can get re-acquainted.

Send in the Army to occupy Portland.

O, I wish I was in the land of commies
Old times there are not forgotten
Look away! Look away!
Look away!  Oregon

Dems, once again, jump the shark as in 1860.

Durham shouldn't wait until after the election to reveal the indictments, if any.  We need to know who is in Jefferson Davis' cabinet in Richmond.

I wouldn't have chosen Trump to play Lincoln, or Biden to play Davis … but you go to war with what you got - Rumsfeld.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Helm_15_conspiracy_theories

https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/this-is-how-the-us-military-would-put-down-an-armed-rebellion
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 21, 2020, 07:14:51 PM
"Top Biden communications aide has history of sexist Twitter posts" … so much like his pussy grabbing boss

"Trump signs order to prevent illegal immigrants from being counted in redrawing of voting districts" … if illegal aliens aren't enfranchised, will there be any Dem voters?

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 22, 2020, 08:02:25 PM
"St. Louis Prosecutor's Office Busted Altering Evidence; Reassembled Non-Operable McCloskey Pistol To Classify As Lethal" … money in 2018 for DA campaigns came from Soros

""Death And Bomb Threats" Made Against China's Embassy In Washington; Beijing Blames Trump" … feel sorry for the guys there and in Houston Consulate who will have to reconstruct lost documents from the shredder

"Trump Authorizes "Surge" Of Federal Agents Into Cities Plagued By Violence, Including Chicago" … Lincoln "surges" Union troops into Federal forts south of the Mason-Dixon Line.

"Philly DA Says He'll Prosecute Trump 'Stormtroopers' Sent To Control BLM Chaos" … another Soros beneficiary

"JPMorgan Managed Millions For Ghislaine Maxwell Despite Booting Epstein In 2013" … banks only exist for money laundering

"Facebook's Neutral "Fact Checkers" Exposed As Ex-CNN Staffers And Democratic Donors" … aka CIA

"NY Riot Cops Disband 'Occupy City Hall' Encampment In Pre-Dawn Raid" … another CHAZ prevented
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 22, 2020, 08:38:26 PM
"Biden ratchets up racism allegations against president, Trump campaign calls claim 'outrageous'" … says Trump is first racist President … uh uh George Washington.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on July 22, 2020, 08:59:37 PM
Biden gets big donor help (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/16/us/politics/joe-biden-fund-raising.html)

QuoteFormer Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. raised tens of millions of dollars in the last three months from major donors who gave more than $100,000, relying on some of the Democratic Party’s deepest pockets to sharply shrink President Trump’s financial advantage, according to new federal filings.

QuoteMr. Biden’s biggest benefactors in the second quarter of 2020, when he became the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, represent a who’s who of billionaires and influencers in Silicon Valley, Hollywood, Wall Street and beyond.
Good?  I suppose so.  Politics is very much a fundraising game, after all.  Though I do wonder what exactly these kind-hearted benefactors expect in return.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on July 23, 2020, 12:49:04 AM
Whoever win, there will be a civil war.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 23, 2020, 10:24:55 AM
There is still time to pray.  I know I am ;-)

A real US civil war will be with nukes, 60 million dead.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on July 23, 2020, 01:40:42 PM
I hear the Trump campaign has already spent nearly a billion dollars! Biden better get busy betimes!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 23, 2020, 05:24:12 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on July 23, 2020, 01:40:42 PM
I hear the Trump campaign has already spent nearly a billion dollars! Biden better get busy betimes!

Give him all your money, so he can give it all to Bernie.  Bernie needs more houses ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 23, 2020, 05:25:32 PM
"MICRODOSING & THE SUPERNATURAL" ... with breakfast ... maybe goes best with Lucky Charms?  Timothy Leary rides again, and this is why the Left Coast is toast.

"LEFTIST BEATS JOURNALIST INTO SUBMISSION IN RIOTS, JOURNALIST THEN FALSELY BLAMES FEDS FOR ATTACKS" ... all rioters secret SS Republican KKK in disguise!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 30, 2020, 11:50:55 AM
"The modern shibboleth is “I like Trump”." ... America is Biblical, even Book of Judges Biblical.

Trump suggested delaying the election ... y'all know a troll when you read one, right?

"Trying to explain Twitter algorithms to Congress is like trying to explain astrophysics to a poodle." ... Congress made a fool of itself twice, once with the Silicon Valley communists, and once with AG Barr.

"DAs backed by Soros, other liberal activists join fray in clash with police" ... interference by a foreign power is cool, if they back the Dems


Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on July 31, 2020, 10:59:20 AM
"DUMB RACIST JOE BIDEN DEVOLVES INTO A MINSTREL SHOW" ... "Joe Biden is the White stereotype Black comedians portray"

"an artificially created depression with communist insurrectionists burning cities down" ... "It's time to punish them at the ballot box." ... or the bullet box.

"TWO THIRDS OF VOTERS EXPECT FAR LEFT VIOLENCE IF TRUMP WINS, DEMOCRATS ALREADY REJECT RESULTS" ... Dems have rejected any election they lost since 1968

"The crisis under which the world is presently suffering is the crisis of interventionism and of state and municipal socialism, in short the crisis of anticapitalist policies..." ... the Republicans are crony grifters, they aren't capitalists (but Trump is).

"3 Weeks After Primary, N.Y. Officials Still Can’t Say Who Won Key Races" ... mail in balloting worse than Iowa primary app.

"CEASE FIRE IN PORTLAND HOLDS, PROTESTERS STOP ANTIFA FROM GOING NUTS AND MORE POLICE DEPLOYED" ... good, we don't want to overfill the Federal prisons.

So everyone ready for the November election, with mail in ballots (R ballots preprinted in Moscow, D ballots preprinted in Beijing) ... so the CIA can tell us some time next year, who won?

"A Quarter Of All Household Income In The US Now Comes From The Government" ... we are 25% of the way to Bernie Sanders' utopia
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 01, 2020, 11:11:53 AM
"BIDEN PRETENDS NOT TO KNOW THE 10TH AMENDMENT, TO GRANDSTAND ON COVID19" ... Biden is part of the intersectional Left, who hate all independent power bases (churches etc) for the same reason Stalin and Mao did.

"US SHERIFFS LEAD THE WAY IN CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE AGAINST CORONATARIANISM" ... not as wimpy as city cops.  They understand, it is illegal to enforce a legal law that is contrary to the Constitution.  So instead of calling in sick, they simply will look the other way when churches etc meet in the hinterland.

"MANLY CERVIXES! THE LEFT WING CAMPAIGN TO ERASE WOMEN CONTINUES" ... political transsexualism is profoundly anti-woman.  Also they want to castrate every male at an early age.  Yes, "degenerates" don't want to propagate their ideology .. bwhaha.  The only way to make a trans majority is to castrate all the boys, and androgen all the girls.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 02, 2020, 04:27:58 PM
"Trump Renomination Closed To The Public And Press" .. I can hear the background music, can't you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX3bN5YeiQs

It's predator time, girls!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 02, 2020, 05:13:26 PM
"BIDEN LITERALLY CONSIDERING A PRO-CASTRO CULT SUPPORTER FOR RUNNING MATE" ... Lee Harvey Oswald and Tom Cruise had a Black baby.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQoVdarCEkc

The origin of this multi-decade decadence.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 03, 2020, 12:13:58 PM
"Former Clinton Press Secretary Urges Biden "Whatever You Do, Don't Debate Trump"" ... “Biden shouldn’t feel obligated to throw Trump a lifeline by granting him any debates at all. This is not a normal presidential election and Trump is not a legitimate candidate...” ... yes, Lincoln used the Electoral College to win a 3-way split, so it isn't legitimate.  Jefferson Davis is the true President ;-)  No traitor is a legitimate candidate,  starting with George Washington.

"How The Billionaires Control American Elections" ... since 1952 at least (how did Eisenhower get nominated?  Texas oil tycoons).  I can't wait for the fake conventions, can you?  Will go well with the fixed election.

"EVEN POLITICO HATES BIDENS' RUNNING MATE SHORTLIST OF DIVERSITY HIRES" ... both parties should cancel the debates, the conventions and the election.  Part of the US will declare Biden dictator, the rest will declare Trump dictator.



Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 04, 2020, 12:07:19 PM
"Joe Biden doesn’t have a ‘lot of petrol in the tank and reeks of the Obama legacy’" ... headline from Australia.  They might be upside-down, but they got this right!  The D-convention needs to dump him and put in Hillary or Michelle (Michael).  Of course the R-convention could dump Trump and put in John Bolton.  Battle of the war-criminals (think fake wrestling) ... Barak Obama would be the wife behind Michelle, or Bill Clinton would do the same for Hillary.  John Bolton doesn't need his wife to act as his front man ;-p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kI9HGD-FnU

"This is enforcement of worldwide totalitarianism. This is psychological war on the masses." ... people who can't take a joke, take this seriously.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 04, 2020, 01:26:35 PM
"MSNBC producer resigns from network with scathing letter: They block 'diversity of thought' and 'amplify fringe voices'" ... center Left jumping overboard before it is too late to avoid Guantanamo

"CNN's Brian Stelter ridiculed for claiming 'right-wing media tempest' is behind push for Biden not to debate Trump" ... Nazis under my bed!

"Soros Infuses $116K Into McCloskey Prosecutor's PAC Days After Charges Filed" ... Hungarian war criminals can interfere or CCP, but not Russia.

Trump approves the Florida state mail in ballot.  This can be done in a legitimate way.  How well this is done will vary from state to state.  Also no state system can be changed with less than 90 days to the election.  Hillary says that the USPO will help Putin.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on August 06, 2020, 07:18:17 AM
50% of White Americans Would Vote for Trump If Election Were Held Today (https://www.newsweek.com/50-white-americans-would-vote-trump-if-election-were-held-today-1523164)

Overall, the poll found that 43 percent of voters would choose Biden in a present-day matchup whereas 40 would choose Trump. In a mid-July poll by Hill-HarrisX, Biden had a 7-point national lead over Trump.

Although the poll showed Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden beating Donald Trump in an immediate matchup among almost every other demographic, Trump led Biden amongst male voters 45 to 43 percent, Midwest voters 42 to 39 percent, Independent voters 35 to 33 percent, voters earning above $75,000 a year by 48 to 39 percent and voters aged 35 to 49 by a margin of 44 to 37 percent.


I understand why people vote against Democrats but I still don't understand why they believe Trump is the best person to lead the country or the Republican party. Imagine Trump was CEO of the company where you work and he's tweeting about celebrities and only looking at fiscal numbers that make him happy. Trump didn't "grow into the role" of president like many Republicans hoped. I know many people are worried about "the radical Left" but imagine what a really smart conservative could do in office. Trump is in some ways a blessing to Democrats because he's so incompetent. I can only assume Republicans are sticking with Trump due to the sunk cost fallacy.

And to those who say "but what about Biden?" I'm not talking about who the Democrats choose but who the Republicans choose to lead their party.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on August 06, 2020, 08:10:59 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on August 06, 2020, 07:18:17 AM
50% of White Americans Would Vote for Trump If Election Were Held Today (https://www.newsweek.com/50-white-americans-would-vote-trump-if-election-were-held-today-1523164)

Overall, the poll found that 43 percent of voters would choose Biden in a present-day matchup whereas 40 would choose Trump. In a mid-July poll by Hill-HarrisX, Biden had a 7-point national lead over Trump.

Although the poll showed Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden beating Donald Trump in an immediate matchup among almost every other demographic, Trump led Biden amongst male voters 45 to 43 percent, Midwest voters 42 to 39 percent, Independent voters 35 to 33 percent, voters earning above $75,000 a year by 48 to 39 percent and voters aged 35 to 49 by a margin of 44 to 37 percent.


I understand why people vote against Democrats but I still don't understand why they believe Trump is the best person to lead the country or the Republican party. Imagine Trump was CEO of the company where you work and he's tweeting about celebrities and only looking at fiscal numbers that make him happy. Trump didn't "grow into the role" of president like many Republicans hoped. I know many people are worried about "the radical Left" but imagine what a really smart conservative could do in office. Trump is in some ways a blessing to Democrats because he's so incompetent. I can only assume Republicans are sticking with Trump due to the sunk cost fallacy.

And to those who say "but what about Biden?" I'm not talking about who the Democrats choose but who the Republicans choose to lead their party.
How ANYBODY can think the orange monster is helping them in any way (well, the 1%, would love him again), is beyond me.  We really, really are, as a country, too stupid to live.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 06, 2020, 11:58:30 AM
I don't expect any President to help me.  Nor, 250 years ago, did I expect King George III to help me.  I am not upper class.  What help do people expect?  FDR got us out of the Great Depression thru WW II, not the New Deal.  He did that by collaborating with war monger Churchill and commie Stalin.

"Pompeo Offers $10 Million Reward For Information On Foreign Election Interference" ... about time (this is now a meme/excuse for both parties)

"New York Times Quietly Scrubs Paid Chinese Propaganda From Website" ... we already know who is guilty this time

"Biden Backs Out Of Milwaukee Convention Over COVID-19 Concerns, Will Accept Nomination From Delaware" ... why bother with fake conventions?

"BIDEN HASN'T TAKEN A COGNITIVE TEST, GETS DEFENSIVE WHEN QUERIED, INVOKES COCAINE" ... upper class using controlled substances for millennia.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 07, 2020, 12:15:52 AM
There are also VP debates.  VP Pence isn't senile.  Will the Dems pick a senile VP candidate, so she can hide under her desk with Joe?

Odds in the Dark Web is for Biden to drop out at the last minute, replaced with a young charismatic unknown, someone without a history (that can be torn to shreds).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 07, 2020, 01:50:33 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on August 06, 2020, 07:18:17 AMI can only assume Republicans are sticking with Trump due to the sunk cost fallacy.
That's pretty much it.  That and the unsavory reality that a lot of the traits Democrats and Independents hate about Trump are the exact same traits these people love - particularly white people who resemble that guy in a golf cart trump tweeted out.  Rationality doesn't enter into it.  That was only a facade anyway, hiding a deplorable interior.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 07, 2020, 09:49:05 AM
"JOE BIDEN INSINUATES BLACK PEOPLE ARE ALL IDENTICAL... NO THIS ISN'T A JOKE" ... his generation isn't liberal in the same way as young Dems

"1000s Of Mail-In Ballots Once Deemed Invalid Now Ordered To Be Counted In NYC" ... revenge of the chads, not the Chads

"In NYC, a judge ruled ballots without postmarks count, even if they arrived 2 days after the election..." ... see above.  Think about every election being contested in court, and it taking until mid  2021 until who "won" the WH?  So the default is, if there is a shit show election that takes Justice Scalia's ghost to adjudicate, the opposition party automatically gets power?  This is why I favor military nullification of the civilian BS.

"Gen. Flynn Warns Of "Vicious Assault By Enemies On All That Is Good" In 'Letter To America'" ... he is just starting to talk, wait until the final attempt by Obama to block him fails in court shortly.  Get the helicopters ready to take Dems to Guantanamo.

"BERNIE PROPOSES 60% TAX ON WEALTH, NOT INCOME, LEFTISTS ARE LYING OR STUPID" ... yes, the rich are crazy to support the Biden/Sanders platform

"BIDEN IS AN UNREPENTANT RACIST AND HE GETS A FREE PASS FROM THE LEFT" ... that and his sexual assault

"Group sends hundreds of thousands of 'potentially misleading' ballot applications" ... look official, but are not.  As easy as taking candy from a voter!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 08, 2020, 09:46:27 AM
"Democrat think tank calls for color revolution if Trump wins election" ... Soros funded no doubt.  This has been in operation since 2016.

Dems plan in certain states, to overturn the Electoral College, by ignoring the state-wide vote and the state legislature, the Dem governors ruling by decree, putting only Biden electors forward.  That is secession like 1860!!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on August 08, 2020, 05:53:43 PM
I think the WH stonewalling of the recent covid relief talks with the Democrats is intended to make the Democratic party look like the bad guys when they take Trump to court over his upcoming exec. orders.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 08, 2020, 10:18:12 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 08, 2020, 05:53:43 PM
I think the WH stonewalling of the recent covid relief talks with the Democrats is intended to make the Democratic party look like the bad guys when they take Trump to court over his upcoming exec. orders.

The Democrats are Satan ;-)  Why would any Republican or Independent agree to anything they want, when they are behind AntiFA and BLM and riots and looting and arson and murder?

Why would Dems go to court when they are planning a violent Marxist revolution in November?  The courts will have to be burned too.

"Trump new orders will:
   â€¢   Eliminate the payroll tax
   â€¢   Extend unemployment benefits by $400 per week, down from $600
   â€¢   Defer student loan repayments through the end of the year
   â€¢   Extend protections against evictions"

Populism.  Revolution isn't populist, it is criminal.

"'Broke And Unemployed' Hunter Biden Slapped With $450K Tax Lien - Which Was 'Resolved' In Six Days" ... check his money in the Estonian banks

"More Than 84,000 Mail In Ballots Disqualified In New York City Primary" ... make all the ballots mail-in and have a judge loyal to King George III invalidate all of them.

"US Intelligence: If Trump Wins Russia Did It, If Biden Wins It Was China And Iran" ... maybe CIA isn't evil, just incompetent.  They didn't predict the fall of the Soviet Union either.

"CIA Stuns In Saying "No Evidence" TikTok Giving Its Data To China" ... CIA and CCP share data, so CIA is as worried as the CCP

"FAR LEFTISTS ANNOUNCE 'WHITE HOUSE SIEGE,' 50 DAYS OF MASS UNREST" ... from the guys at Occupy, who are the intelligencia of BLM.  How about 50 days of summary executions?

"POLICE REFUSED TO FRAME MCCLOSKEY'S, REPUBLICANS NOW DEMAND DOJ GET INVOLVED IN STOPPING CORRUPT DA" ... just murder White people

History rhymes ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFAofKwX2KM
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on August 09, 2020, 08:33:26 AM
"US Intelligence: If Trump Wins Russia Did It, If Biden Wins It Was China And Iran" ... maybe CIA isn't evil, just incompetent.  They didn't predict the fall of the Soviet Union either.

As if the planning decisions of a group of Soviet leaders and state owned entities was ever going to outperform the lightning fast reaction times of a somewhat free market. The Chinese really need to rename their party.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 09, 2020, 09:45:47 AM
One of my old friends has said that reactivating Chinese Merchantilism is a world ending event.  They can outcompete anyone, with the end result of human extermination.  The British were smart to get them all addicted to opium.

"LIBERTARIAN PARTY ABANDONS ACTUAL LIBERTY IN FAVOR OF COURTING DISAFFECTED LEFTIST VOTERS" ... I voted for Gary Johnson in 2016, not because of the Libertarian Party, but because of Gary Johnson not being Trump or Hillary.  Not because of the Libertarian Party's lame plan of being more liberal than George McGovern.

""IT'S A PEACEFUL PROTEST" TRUMP SAYS OF HIS LATEST SPEECH" ... Americans are as primitive as Middle Ages peasants during the Black (BLM) Death.

"Fake driver's licenses flooding into US from China, other countries, US says" ... helping to make more Mexicans vote for Dems

"Furious Democrats Faced With A Daunting Question: Will They Dare To Challenge Trump's Stimulus Orders" ... if Obama can rule by decree, so can Trump

"Nancy Pelosi Admits On CNN: "China Would Prefer Joe Biden"" ... since politicians always lie, this must not be true ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 10, 2020, 09:34:29 AM
"TRUMP PROCLAIMS HE WILL SCRAP PAYROLL TAXES, DEMS CLAIM HE WANTS TO SCRAP SOCIAL SECURITY" ... SS withholding different from Medicare withholding and income tax withholding.  I think he is only suspending income tax withholding.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 11, 2020, 05:04:26 PM
In non-Trump news (it exists, or so I'm told), Biden picks Kamala Harris as his running mate. (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/joe-biden-selects-kamala-harris-his-running-mate-n1235771)

It makes sense that Biden would pick a 2020 primary candidate, and Harris ran a strong campaign, winning states like...

...

umm...

...you know what, nevermind.  The point is she was there, and I guess that's something.

Her positions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Kamala_Harris) are generally pretty decent imo.  Hopefully, she gets more mileage out of that in the general than in the primary.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on August 11, 2020, 06:12:51 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 11, 2020, 05:04:26 PM
In non-Trump news (it exists, or so I'm told), Biden picks Kamala Harris as his running mate. (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/joe-biden-selects-kamala-harris-his-running-mate-n1235771)

It makes sense that Biden would pick a 2020 primary candidate, and Harris ran a strong campaign, winning states like...

...

umm...

...you know what, nevermind.  The point is she was there, and I guess that's something.

Her positions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Kamala_Harris) are generally pretty decent imo.  Hopefully, she gets more mileage out of that in the general than in the primary.
Yeah 'Pocahontas', as Trump calls her (for the dims) did better in the primaries. She would energize the Bernie supporters more perhaps. There is something seemingly 'executive' and sharp about Harris. I think 'seeming presidential' on TV is still a big deal and she has that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 11, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Quote from: Cassia on August 11, 2020, 06:12:51 PM
Yeah 'Pocahontas', as Trump calls her (for the dims) did better in the primaries. She would energize the Bernie supporters more perhaps.
That all depends on where she sits that day on universal healthcare.  Bernie supporters really liked Warren at the beginning, but her reputation as a firebrand slowly turned to one of machiavellian opportunism (with little payoff, I might add).  I'd rather have Harris at this point, imo.

QuoteThere is something seemingly 'executive' and sharp about Harris. I think 'seeming presidential' on TV is still a big deal and she has that.
Yeah, and that works.  Any functioning adult.  I'm serious about that, so I guess I'm ridin' with Biden.  Besides, any meaningful change isn't going to happen until The Orange Plague is out of office.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on August 11, 2020, 07:31:16 PM
The Orange Plague, LOL

You must be talking about Tangerine Idi Amin, The King of Maskholes, Agolf Twitler, The Potus Scrotus? 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 11, 2020, 08:28:15 PM
"JOE BIDEN PICKS GROSS POLICE STATE SHILL KAMALA HARRIS AS RUNNING MATE, SURPRISING NOBODY" ... but as VP she can't lock up innocent Black men.

Kamala Harris it is.  But Pocahontas didn't even win her own state primary ;-))

But until the faux D convention is over, it isn't clear that Biden will be the candidate.  Wait a few more days for confirmation.  The superdelegates could choose someone else, even Kamala Harris.  The faux R convention could choose their original choice, JEB Bush.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 11, 2020, 08:30:04 PM
Quote from: Cassia on August 11, 2020, 07:31:16 PMAgolf Twitler
(https://www.electronicproducts.com/wp-content/uploads/analog-mixed-signal-ics-communications-david-tennant-laughing-alot-gif.gif)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 11, 2020, 08:31:13 PM
Jokes on you if you are one of The Doctor's companions.  Monsters on every planet, including Earth.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on August 11, 2020, 08:38:12 PM
When two of your neighbors have a flag outside saying:"TRUMP: NO MORE BULLSHIT", and one was recently a democrat.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on August 11, 2020, 08:40:40 PM
I would set the odds at 48 Biden / 52 Trump if the election was tomorrow. Sputnik saves the day, LOL
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 11, 2020, 08:52:20 PM
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on August 11, 2020, 08:38:12 PM
When two of your neighbors have a flag outside saying:"TRUMP: NO MORE BULLSHIT", and one was recently a democrat.

So your dead neighbor isn't voting Democrat again? ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 11, 2020, 08:53:38 PM
"Bernie supporters, progressives trash Biden-Harris ticket: A 'middle finger' to the base" ... Marxists are like Blacks, Hispanics etc ... the Dems need you to vote for them, but they won't take care of your interests one day after the election.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on August 11, 2020, 09:53:40 PM
For some reason today I was thinking about Mondale / Ferraro.

I just can't seem to put my finger on why...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 11, 2020, 11:06:40 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on August 11, 2020, 09:53:40 PM
For some reason today I was thinking about Mondale / Ferraro.

I just can't seem to put my finger on why...

Bwahaha ... and maybe Ferraro was just as corrupt as people said ... and Mondale was as simp as other people said.  Too bad we don't have Reagan to kick these "wets" into the well of irrelevance.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on August 11, 2020, 11:39:58 PM
https://www.270towin.com/maps/consensus-2020-electoral-map-forecast
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on August 12, 2020, 03:10:41 AM
Harris is the sensible choice.  In the position Biden is in right now, 'sensible' is the best thing to do.  Being from California doesn't really help in a close state, but it gives him a good chance to energize the Black vote.  Whether it reaches the levels Obama got, hard to predict, but it could be enough to solidify North Carolina and tick Georgia over into the D column.

Also, being the 'safe' pick demonstrates stability, especially in comparison to the Orange Chaos Beast.  'Safe' and 'stable' probably sound really good not just to the independent voters, but to wobbly Republicans who are sick of the nightmare carousel that's been the last four years.  It's going to be nearly impossible to hang the 'looney left' label on the Biden/Harris ticket.

I would have rather seen him tap, say, either of the two Black congresswomen from Ohio -- Marcia Fudge or Joyce Beatty -- in order to give the Buckeye State a shove in the blue direction, but neither of them have the national name recognition Harris does.  So, fair enough.

Also, I'm looking forward to her shredding Ayatollah Pence in their debate.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on August 12, 2020, 07:21:06 AM
I read somewhere that Biden's support among the "black vote" is all the way down to 75% (typically 90% for Democrats) while Trump's is up to 15% (typically 5% for Republicans).

I know some Democratic pollsters are sweating over that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on August 12, 2020, 09:15:52 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on August 12, 2020, 07:21:06 AM
I read somewhere that Biden's support among the "black vote" is all the way down to 75% (typically 90% for Democrats) while Trump's is up to 15% (typically 5% for Republicans).

I know some Democratic pollsters are sweating over that.
I've always wondered how presidents pick running mates.  I'm sure they have their reasons, some of which may be strategic.  But in the end, they pick who they pick, and then it's up to us and the guys who write op-eds to invent the logic for why this was a good or bad choice.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 12, 2020, 12:49:32 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on August 12, 2020, 07:21:06 AM
I read somewhere that Biden's support among the "black vote" is all the way down to 75% (typically 90% for Democrats) while Trump's is up to 15% (typically 5% for Republicans).

I know some Democratic pollsters are sweating over that.

Dems own Black voters like they used to own Black people ... for now.  Everyone is neglecting how many voters will sit this one out (I am, permanently).  I can't say I am pleased with Trump, would only give him a "C" ... but he was an political unknown in 2016.  Biden is a crypto-racist, and Harris is a non-American Black, ancestry from Jamaica, as Obama's was from Kenya.  The Dems have a hard time running a genuine African-American with an arrest record ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 12, 2020, 12:53:09 PM
Quote from: SGOS on August 12, 2020, 09:15:52 AM
I've always wondered how presidents pick running mates.  I'm sure they have their reasons, some of which may be strategic.  But in the end, they pick who they pick, and then it's up to us and the guys who write op-eds to invent the logic for why this was a good or bad choice.

I think Palin was forced on a senile McCain.  Otherwise there are traditional calculi.  Kennedy picked Johnson to cover his Southern flank ... and that helped Johnson et al to be positioned to benefit from the assassination.  Often times Presidents pick a VP for lack of anything to recommend them (Mr Potatoe-head).  Kamala Harris is well positioned to "manage" Biden or replace him, per the Swamp.

"Far-Left Democrat Rep. Pramila Jayapal Brags About Manipulating Joe Biden" ... a pre-election psyop for the Bernie Bros.  He has moved strongly Left for now, to keep the Bernie Bros on-side (who' s lack of enthusiasm hurt Hillary).  But given Kamala Harris, they will be screwed the minute Biden takes office.  Kamala likes to jail innocent Black men in particular.

"Facebook Cracks Down On 'Fake' Local News Networks Run By Political Operatives" ... how about banning all political advertisements?

""We Will Be Watching You": Dems Put Media On Notice To Avoid 'Racist Tropes' Such As 'Angry Black Women'" ... calling White-women Karens is still PC.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on August 12, 2020, 01:45:18 PM
Who would constitute Biden's dream team? What if Oprah was on the ticket? Michelle Obama?

I used to watch Oprah's 'Super Soul Sunday' sometimes just for the cringe. That D. Chopra guy is a trip. Not sure really sure why Oprah gives weight loss or marriage advice either. Priests are always giving marriage advice too. Like getting stock tips down at the soup kitchen.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 12, 2020, 02:07:54 PM
Quote from: Cassia on August 12, 2020, 01:45:18 PM
Who would constitute Biden's dream team? What if Oprah was on the ticket? Michelle Obama?

I used to watch Oprah's 'Super Soul Sunday' sometimes just for the cringe. That D. Chopra guy is a trip. Not sure really sure why Oprah gives weight loss or marriage advice either. Priests are always giving marriage advice too. Like getting stock tips down at the soup kitchen.


You can't even get "steak tips" at the soup kitchen ;-) ... just broth of rat

"GROSS, SLEAZY OPPORTUNIST KAMALA HARRIS ONCE SAID SHE BELIEVED BIDENS' ACCUSERS" ... back in April 2019, before the #BelieveHer accusation was made, that ended #BelieveHer.  Senator Harris is famous for her Willie Brown encounter.  See, the CIA thru Epstein, gets dirt on everyone, then blackmails them.  This is why all Dem candidates are sex deviants.  Most Rep candidates probably.  Trump is a deviant, but is public about it, so he can't be blackmailed by the CIA.

"THE LEFT IS EATING ITSELF ALIVE OVER KAMALA VP PICK AND NOW TRUMP WILL LANDSLIDE" ... too bad "Svetlana Iosifovna Alliluyeva" aka Stalin's daughter is no longer available (and she was a naturalized US citizen anyway, so not eligible for VP).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 12, 2020, 02:30:38 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on August 12, 2020, 07:21:06 AM
I read somewhere that Biden's support among the "black vote" is all the way down to 75% (typically 90% for Democrats) while Trump's is up to 15% (typically 5% for Republicans).
Gluteus maximus extraction?  Drinking the bleach-flavored koolaid?  Hmm..

According to a poll at the end of June, Trump's at 7% (https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2020/06/30/publics-mood-turns-grim-trump-trails-biden-on-most-personal-traits-major-issues/).  And just last month, his press secretary bragged about 8% (https://www.businessinsider.com/white-house-press-secretary-brags-that-trump-won-8-of-the-black-vote-2020-6).  Though, that could be a false flag, he might've worked with Romney at some point. :P

I've gotta say, I didn't know that 5% is typical for Republicans.  I guess that makes sense.  They say black lives matter and Republicans say that racism doesn't exist and that BLM is racist.  Can't blame them for not wanting to throw in with that ball o' crazy.

But you know, something about that 5% figure sounds familiar...

"And a recent poll came out where I had 25 percent African-American.  And the Republicans usually get about 4 percent or 5 percent.  And one of the hosts said, if he ever gets 25 percent, this election’s over.  You might as well not run it." - Trump, from an 2/21/16 interview with Jake Tapper (https://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2016/02/21/trump-on-the-party-nominees-i-think-its-going-to-be-between-hillary-and-myself-they-say-that-it-will-be-the-largest-voter-turnout-in-the-history-of-united-states-elections/)

Just fyi, it's not normally 5%.  It's more like 10% plus or minus 5 points (https://www.factcheck.org/2016/02/trump-and-the-black-vote/), depending on how Republicans present themselves and how much dog whistling they're willing to do to win.  Black support for Republicans used to be a lot higher before that whole Southern Strategy thing.  I wonder why.

QuoteI know some Democratic pollsters are sweating over that.
They're sweating so hard they're trying to put the kibosh on mail-in voting during a pandemic?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 12, 2020, 02:44:50 PM
Senator Harris is also Indian (Asian) in descent.  She trashed Biden in debate.  Tulsi trashed Kamala in debate, and she is also of Indian (Asian) descent.

Choosing Senator Harris as VP, would have increased (slightly) my likelihood of voting for Biden, if I were voting and still a Democrat.  Tulsi would have even increased that further.  Oprah or Michelle Obama would have decreased it.

Meanwhile, why is poorly implemented mail in voting (NM in the last election .. my daughter informed me. was competent) being pushed so hard?  In a circumstance of 10s of thousands of fake driver's licenses?  The California system in particular is rampant with questionable practices, more people voting than registered there.  Basically mail in votes should only be for registered voters, only if they register months before an election, so their fake credentials can be verified.  The actual voter registration is in person, not on-line or by mall.  Registered voters request a ballot on-line (to verity which ballot they get), get it in the mail, mail it back after filling it out.  The trick is having legitimate registered voters.  Waiting a few extra days to have a mail in vote tabulated isn't that bad, India has to do this all the time, because its India, the world's largest democracy.

Kamala is a member of the "Boule" Black secret society modeled after the "Skull & Bones" the Bush family is part of.  Pure Deep State.  Her most prominent ancestor was the biggest slave owner in Jamaica.  She is slightly more African than Elizabeth Warren is Native American.

I am fine myself with women leaders, people of Indian descent, people of African descent.  Since I vote for individuals, not Identity Politics.

"Liberals do not think it is right to criticise a woman that comes from a family of slave owners ....that was a quick 180." .. bwahah.  The Swamp has spoken.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on August 12, 2020, 03:52:25 PM
I like Warren a lot, but she's from a state that has a Republican governor, who would have appointed a Republican Senate replacement.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 12, 2020, 04:04:12 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 12, 2020, 03:52:25 PM
I like Warren a lot, but she's from a state that has a Republican governor, who would have appointed a Republican Senate replacement.

Kamala Harris is your junior Senator ... what do you think?

"Even Rachel Dolezal has more connection to African Americans than Kamala Harris." ... maybe Harris has slightly more.

"CNN: Joe Biden Could 'Step Aside' For Kamala Harris" ... before, during or after the fake Dem convention ... but before the election.  Name Hillary Clinton as her VP.

"Flashback: Harris joked about killing Trump, Pence, Sessions during 2018 'Ellen' appearance" ... I don't like Trump's jokes either

Biden wanted the governor of Michigan as his VP candidate, but she isn't Black enough (Harris is barely Black as it is).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 13, 2020, 04:43:45 PM
"THE RISE OF THE HEEL LICKERS! KAMALA HARRIS FANS CIRCLE THE WAGON" ... Leftists are irrational, so they can and will circle this square

"Sniff 'n Blow 2020" idea for campaign sticker ;-)

"Cornel West Calls Biden-Harris 'Slow-Moving Disaster'" ... if he says this, and he is a REAL African-American (unlike Obama and Harris) ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 14, 2020, 01:05:50 PM
"Biden was "woke fishing" in choosing his VP candidate" ... fake male Progressive trying to get a girl into bed (and Kamala has experience)

"BIDEN HIRES OPENLY VIOLENT, RACIST, MISOGYNISTIC MARXIST TO LEAD ARIZONA DIGITAL TEAM" .. vetting error or going to plan?  Hire Bernie Bros, wake up with Commies

"PREDICTION: JOE BIDEN AND KAMALA HARRIS WILL ALMOST TOTALLY IGNORE THEIR OWN RECORDS" .. the only safe candidate is one who has never been in politics before ;-))

"MEMETIC OCCULTISM! POWER GOES OUT AT FIRST BIDEN-HARRIS EVENT" ... even the Devil is offended by this unnatural pairing ;-)

"The Senate went on leave. No money for you peasants." ... we aren't in their club.  The House only wants to fix the election for Biden.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 14, 2020, 01:24:06 PM
This deserves its own post ...

"During an interview on Fox Business yesterday, Trump said that if USPS doesn't get the $25 billion earmarked in the Democratic stimulus plan, then it won't have the money to handle mail-in ballots." ... doesn't say that the USPS will never get it, but this is putting pressure on the Dems since time is short.  Could just be another snafu for a country unprepared for pandemics.

"USPS Mail-Sorting Machines Are Mysteriously Being Deactivated Ahead Of Election" ... new US Postmaster (Franklin was the original traitor here) is a Republican fund raiser.  This is very odd timing indeed ;-(

"New Jersey To Become 9th State To Adopt "Universal Mail-In Voting"" ... as I pointed out earlier vs NM ... this can be done with integrity.  The integrity of who is a registered voter is key.  If the intent of the DNC is to have illegally registered or unregistered voters do mail in voting since they won't be vetted in person, then this is an attempt to steal the election, and I support any President in preventing this treason.  If this is not being done with criminal intent, then I have no problem with mail-in voting, and would want the USPS geared up to properly support it.  The integrity of the system is more important than who gets elected.

""Democrats Are Holding This Up!" - Trump Rages After Ordering Mnuchin To Send $3,400 To US Families" ... both parties are blocking.  $3400 would be direct deposit to family of four, not mailed check?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 15, 2020, 12:35:37 AM
"NEWSWEEK ARTICLE ARGUES KAMALA HARRIS IS NOT A CITIZEN, DEMOCRATS OUTRAGED" ... funny coming from an MSM rag.  Her parents were here on temporary VISA and had her here in the US.  Not the same as Obama (born in Hawaii territory) or McCain (born in Panama Canal Zone).  My limited understanding is if you are not flying over the US, but on the ground, not even in a hospital situation (say back of a cab) ... and born here, then you are a US citizen (though you might have more than one citizenship depending on who your parents are (where they are from).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 15, 2020, 05:17:42 PM
Bipartisan corruption of course ...

Secret Empires: How the American Political Class Hides Corruption and Enriches Family and Friends

"Only the little people pay taxes." -- Leona Helmsley

"brazen American corruption and nepotism" ... all ruling families, including Clintons, Bidens, Trumps, Obamas, Cheneys, Gores, Bushes.  Hunter Biden claimed "poverty" paying off his large back-tax bill.  His poverty included a $12,000 per month apartment and a $130,000 car ;-)  He has to work hard to keep up with Chelsea Clinton.

"Conservative Journalist Arrested & Jailed Ahead Of 'ShadowGate' Documentary Release" ... Wikileaks probably is innocent too, the government is criminal

"YouTube To End Election "Interference"... By Interfering With The Free Press" ... Youtube = Google = Alphabet = CIA

"Watch As Biden's Sheepdogs Eject Docile Journalists Before Anyone Can Ask Questions" .. Pravda proud

"Crony Capitalist Execs Cheer Selection Of Kamala Harris As Dem VP" ... Biden & Harris are closet Republicans, just as Trump & Pence are closet Democrats

"They are telling voters to dump Trump and restore them to power or they will tear down the United States and burn down your homes..." .. people respond well to honest political messaging ... "37% plurality of independents do not think either would be a good candidate" ... if I were voting, I would be in this last group, 1/10 of voters who think "good cop/bad cop" is a shit show.


Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 15, 2020, 06:59:29 PM
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/biden-floats-baseless-election-conspiracy/

Dat editor's note.

(https://c-sf.smule.com/rs-s78/arr/d5/16/b53b57dd-ceaf-40d4-9730-35fa343b904d.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 15, 2020, 07:22:31 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 15, 2020, 06:59:29 PM
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/biden-floats-baseless-election-conspiracy/

Dat editor's note.

(https://c-sf.smule.com/rs-s78/arr/d5/16/b53b57dd-ceaf-40d4-9730-35fa343b904d.jpg)

There is an election conspiracy, every two years, and both parties are involved ;-))

The USPS has been a shithole since 1970 (National Guard used to process mail during postal strike).  It has always lost money every year, because ordinary mail pays for junk mail, and bought politicians won't fix this.  This is why FedEx and UPS exist.  But this 50 year old problem isn't because of Trump.

"don't underestimate how badly Biden can screw things up" - Barak Obama aka says Biden is unfit for office ... earlier Obama told Biden "you don't have to do this".
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 16, 2020, 01:55:11 AM
I just watched Hannity smear Biden as a puppet of the "far left" and particularly Bernie Sanders and I've gotta tell you guys, this right-wing fearmongering makes Biden look sooo much cooler than he is in reality.

And one of the things they say is that socialism/communism (exact quote: "whatever you wanna call it") is an utter failure in every country that's tried it, leading to nothing but misery.

Convenient terminology failure aside, let's take it as a given that marxism doesn't work - that command economies inevitably crash and burn.  Believe it or not, I'm pretty partial to that position.  No one wants to emulate Stalinist Russia (except Putin) or the Khmer Rouge or China's brand of authoritarianism (except Trump).

What lefties like me are doing is looking at Germany and the Netherlands and especially Nordic countries like Denmark and we're not seeing failure and misery - we see a lot of policies that work, and work much better than what we have here.  And we'd like to learn from them and see if we can't at least partially implement stuff that we know works over here.  So no, we're not following in the footsteps of failure, we're genuinely impressed with their success and want our people to enjoy that kind of success as well.  That's our "radical" and "unAmerican" stance.  Isn't wanting America to be better patriotic, not unpatriotic?

And needless to say, a lot of mainstream Dems aren't on board with even that.  I mean, the last president wasn't even on board with gay marriage at first and had to be talked into it (the policy, I mean, not the...nevermind).  What little reform we actually get is basically just a band-aid on a grievous 2-foot long gash, imho.

The point is that in the US two-party system, it's center-left (with an emphasis on center) against far right.  That's the way it's been for decades and continues to be and any attempt at changing that paradigm just gets crushed to pieces right in front of our eyes.  Us moderately-left are pretty much a people without a homeland.

So these right-wing scaremongers saying that Biden is some radical lefty out to radically transform the US are painting a comically unrealistic picture.  They might as well say that covid is a Dem hoax and that global warming is a chinese hoax.  Just as many people will believe that as the other two.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 16, 2020, 01:23:17 PM
Ideology and partisanship are just tools.  Shadowgate on the Shadownet operation ... is releasing whistleblower info which the current grand jury investigation under Barr must have been working with.  It damages the ability of the DoJ to try people, but also prevents the DoJ from running a fake investigation into a bi-partisan corruption, to troll conservatives wanting scalps.  The Deep State isn't partisan, it is for itself, not for America or any party.

n 2016 they were running operations against both Hillary and Trump, so that no matter what happens, the WH is under Deep State control.  Of course the current election is totally fake too.  The trick of magicians is to distract your attention from one hand, while the other hand is doing a trick.  I won't mention names here, but the code name for the real leader is "Voldemort" (and he probably works for someone else), bwahaha.  Under Intel dictatorship since 1963.

Nothing wrong with idolizing Germanic countries.  I am 1/2 Germanic myself.  But China is the prototype of the 21st century totalitarian state, not Germany.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on August 16, 2020, 03:41:11 PM
I love how conservatives complain about "marxist this" and "communist that" "liberal fascist this"

And the republican majority government is fucking taking the mail boxes and destroying the ability for the mail to work efficiently for mail in voting, which is  many people's only hope of voting this election.

Welcome to North Korea.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 16, 2020, 03:48:07 PM
Trump Campaign Ad ... I support this message - Kim Jong Un

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMLtkp4AFkc

Give me dictatorship or give me all your money (woke Patrick Henry)

"Restaurant in China apologizes after asking customers to weigh themselves before ordering" ... Brave New Diet


Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on August 17, 2020, 03:34:32 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 16, 2020, 01:55:11 AM
And needless to say, a lot of mainstream Dems aren't on board with even that.  I mean, the last president wasn't even on board with gay marriage at first and had to be talked into it (the policy, I mean, not the...nevermind).
I'll just add here that it was Biden who forced Obama's hand on marriage equality.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 17, 2020, 11:27:26 AM
It was MLK that forced the Kennedy Administration's hand on civil rights.

Biden forced Obama?  With an arm wrestle?

Under Trump since 2017, all gays have been rounded up and executed (in some parallel universe).

"KAMALA HARRIS BLUNDERS BADLY IN CHAT WITH STEPHEN COLBERT, BASICALLY ADMITS SHE'S A LIAR" .. anyone running for office is a liar, so no beans

"USPS flashback: Obama administration removed thousands of mailboxes" ... no wonder he has lukewarm support for Biden ;-)

"Biden Sexual Assault Accuser Livid Over Bill Clinton Speech At DNC" ... LOL, both parties think with their dicks

"The USPS Just Filed A Patent For A Blockchain-Based Secure-Voting System" ... not ready this year, so be patient

"China's anti-Trump election meddling raises new alarm, as DNI calls country biggest threat" ... duh.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 18, 2020, 11:10:21 AM
"Cake Lives Matter: Protesters Descend On New York Bakery For Making MAGA-Hat-Shaped Cake" ... so French of them, brioche anyone?

""MEDIA FEIGNS OUTRAGE THAT TRUMP RETWEETED "LET DEMOCRATS CITIES ROT" AS DEMOCRAT CITIES ROT" ... MSM feigns working for a living

Didn't watch the first night of the virtual Dem convention.  I have found them fatally boring since 1972 (last time I watched any convention).  Dems were into Identity Politics way back then, and Eric Sevareid tore them a new orifice for it.  He said "which delegates represent the Lithuanian-American fishermen?".  I still remember this after almost 50 years.  Maroons!

"Trump: Susan B. Anthony to get posthumous pardon" ... anything for NYC drama queen

"Michelle Obama's DNC speech was recorded before Biden picked Harris as running mate, source says" .. Harris not mentioned.  Dem "cringe-vention".
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on August 19, 2020, 05:05:14 PM
The simple fact that Lord Dampnut won't commit to accepting the results of the election unless he wins[/i] should have every Constitution-respecting American ready to throw his orange ass out in November.  This is about as un-American as it's possible to be, without actually committing treason. (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/white-house-declines-to-say-whether-trump-will-accept-election-results/ar-BB189THA?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 19, 2020, 05:35:09 PM
Quote from: trdsf on August 17, 2020, 03:34:32 AM
I'll just add here that it was Biden who forced Obama's hand on marriage equality.
I had no idea.  How come his progressive bona fides (and policy positions in general) aren't front and center?  He has a good track record on combating global warming and apparently helped make the clutch play in making gay marriage legal in this country.  Yet, when it comes to how he's portrayed in the media and by the public at large, it's seldom anything more substantial than "he's more presidential" and "not trump".

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfjTE6vXgAAU1Db.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 19, 2020, 05:47:32 PM
And I've gotta say, the global warming issue is way more important than a lot of people think it is.  It should be a make-or-break issue because it's a life-or-death issue.  Anyone who says this isn't a big deal is a crazy person and should be shown the door asap, not put in charge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sqdyEpklFU
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on August 19, 2020, 05:49:46 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 19, 2020, 05:35:09 PM
I had no idea.  How come his progressive bona fides (and policy positions in general) aren't front and center?  He has a good track record on combating global warming and apparently helped make the clutch play in making gay marriage legal in this country.  Yet, when it comes to how he's portrayed in the media and by the public at large, it's seldom anything more substantial than "he's more presidential" and "not trump".

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfjTE6vXgAAU1Db.jpg)
Believe it or not, the Dem convention, so far, has changed my mind about Biden.  I was in the 'He's not trump' camp prior to now.  I now think he would make a good leader, and his character and personality are just what we need--and the average person can relate.  Plus I think he knows how to relegate tasks and power (a very important often overlooked aspect of leadership).   
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on August 19, 2020, 05:55:46 PM
Quote from: trdsf on August 19, 2020, 05:05:14 PM
The simple fact that Lord Dampnut won't commit to accepting the results of the election unless he wins[/i] should have every Constitution-respecting American ready to throw his orange ass out in November.  This is about as un-American as it's possible to be, without actually committing treason.
(https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/white-house-declines-to-say-whether-trump-will-accept-election-results/ar-BB189THA?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout)
He is a traitor--his handling of the bounty on US soldier's heads is all the proof we need.  He is clearly un-American by a multitude of his actions and inactions.  If the entire body of of the Repubs in the senate were not cowards, traitors and un-American themselves, the orange monster would have been gone long ago.  Throw Barr into that traitorous group.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on August 19, 2020, 09:40:30 PM
Sent links to all the younger ones in the family so they get their absentee ballots...they complain about things yet sometimes forget to vote. :cool:
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 19, 2020, 10:42:13 PM
Quote from: trdsf on August 19, 2020, 05:05:14 PM
The simple fact that Lord Dampnut won't commit to accepting the results of the election unless he wins[/i] should have every Constitution-respecting American ready to throw his orange ass out in November.  This is about as un-American as it's possible to be, without actually committing treason.
(https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/white-house-declines-to-say-whether-trump-will-accept-election-results/ar-BB189THA?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout)

Democrats haven't accepted negative election results since 1968 ... in particular in 2000 and 2016.  I hated the way the election in 2000 was run myself.  I blame Justice Scalia, and feel his death as unnatural.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 19, 2020, 10:43:00 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 19, 2020, 05:55:46 PM
He is a traitor--his handling of the bounty on US soldier's heads is all the proof we need.  He is clearly un-American by a multitude of his actions and inactions.  If the entire body of of the Repubs in the senate were not cowards, traitors and un-American themselves, the orange monster would have been gone long ago.  Throw Barr into that traitorous group.

Obama is a warmonger (same as George W and Bill).  When are you going to turn them into The Hague?  How is treason charges based?  Agreement with DNC conspiracy with CCP?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 19, 2020, 10:43:05 PM
Quote from: Cassia on August 19, 2020, 09:40:30 PM
Sent links to all the younger ones in the family so they get their absentee ballots...they complain about things yet sometimes forget to vote. :cool:
I'm showing up for early voting.  With a face shield and hazmat suit if I have to.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 19, 2020, 10:45:34 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 19, 2020, 10:43:05 PM
I'm showing up for early voting.  With a face shield and hazamat suit if I have to.

The tradition of having people work all day on voting day, and having to crowd at the end of the day, I have always thought is vote caging.  Voting should be available early or over at least two days.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on August 19, 2020, 11:03:00 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 19, 2020, 10:43:05 PM
I'm showing up for early voting.  With a face shield and hazmat suit if I have to.
In CA our ballots will be mailed out on Oct. 5.  As soon as I get mine, I'm filling it out and hand carrying it to the county election office.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 19, 2020, 11:15:32 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 19, 2020, 11:03:00 PM
In CA our ballots will be mailed out on Oct. 5.  As soon as I get mine, I'm filling it out and hand carrying it to the county election office.

An actual good plan.  What if the county election office is manned by shape shifting reptilians and you have forgotten your special sun glasses?

"DEMOCRAT CHAINS HIMSELF TO MAILBOX BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL INSANE" ... they use lots of drugs in Oregon? ... "Postal Justice Warriors" ;-)

We have gone from actors pretending to be Presidents (Reagan and Trump) to Presidents pretending to be actors (Obama, Biden if he wins) ... aka scripted pols.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2020, 10:37:27 AM
""That's Ridiculous": Jill Biden - Not Joe, Appears On Live TV To Defend VP's Cognitive Ability" ... like DeBlasio, President Biden will have two women telling him what he thinks ;-)

"Obama Says Trump "Unfit" For Presidency, Treats Oval Office "Like A Reality TV Show"" ... says 4x warmonger

"Trump Hits Joe And Hunter's China Malarkey In New Campaign Ad" ... don't forget to share the money with the other members of your crime family, Joe.

"The Great Election Fraud: Will Our Freedoms Survive Another Vote?" ... slaves since Nov 1963

Trump plays 4-d chess, Biden plays 1-d chess ;-)

"All dead eyes and false smiles, the sign of a psychopath" ... Dem convention having so much fun

"DEMOCRAT'S DNC 2 WAS EVEN WORSE, A CLOWN SHOW SO BAD THEY HAD WARREN ON THE NATIVE AMERICAN CAUCUS" ... lol

"Democratic convention akin to 'politics by demented Twitter thread'" ... Twitter for twits
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on August 20, 2020, 11:52:32 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 19, 2020, 05:35:09 PM
I had no idea.  How come his progressive bona fides (and policy positions in general) aren't front and center?  He has a good track record on combating global warming and apparently helped make the clutch play in making gay marriage legal in this country.  Yet, when it comes to how he's portrayed in the media and by the public at large, it's seldom anything more substantial than "he's more presidential" and "not trump".
Don't forget authoring the Violence Against Women Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_Against_Women_Act).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 21, 2020, 06:03:36 AM
So have no women seen violence since the government passed a law?

"AOC DECLARES NBC A "LEGACY BRAND"" ... MSM won't like that messaging, they need the advertising money to stay alive.

Dems put the con in convention ;-))

"Trump Gave A Rally In Joe Biden's Home Town - This Was 2016 Populist, Bannon-era Trump" .. Scranton NJ, eew

"Biden Vows To Unite America, Defeat "Darkness" After Accepting Democratic Nomination" ... the old racist Biden, will he lock up the BLM Marxists?

""Wake Up Motherf**ker, Wake Up!" BLM Idles Through Portland Neighborhood With Bullhorn" ... this will sell well with moderates and independents

"Jimmy Dore Blasts Biden's Lineup Of Neocon & War Hawk Endorsements At DNC Convention" ... discredited people like: Powell, Obama and Kerry, war hawks!

"Six Democratic States File Lawsuit Against USPS For "Impeding Free & Fair Elections"" .. thus cancelling the early tally of the election, since the resolution of these lawsuits might take a year ... meaning Nancy Pelosi becomes acting President ;-))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 21, 2020, 07:12:47 PM
"Hillary Clinton Gave Ghislaine Maxwell's Nephew "Very Powerful" Position At State Department: Report" ... all in the crime family

"Biden Supporters Steal 7-Year-Old Boy's MAGA Hat, Attack His Mother" ... Dem bullies

"NYC IS DYING DUE TO CORRUPT DEMOCRATS, DEBLASIO SIPHONS $2M TO HIS WIFE WHILE PLANNING 22K LAYOFFS" .. burn it all down

"TRUMP SAYS DEMOCRATS STEALING THE ELECTION WITH VOTE BY MAIL, VOWS TO DEPLOY POLICE TO STOP FRAUD" ... send in the sheriffs

"Criminal justice activist Donna Hylton, featured in DNC video, was convicted for role in grisly 1985 murder" .. perfect DNC rep

"Third term for Obama? Washington Post reporter claims lawmakers 'talking about' repeal of 22nd Amendment" ... Papa Doc Obama

"Ben Shapiro on DNC: Democrats didn’t mention threat of China, nationwide unrest all 4 nights" ... they are allies of China and BLM

Biden “Ally of the light” in his own words aka Lucifer

"Biden: "I Would Shut Country Down Again If Recommended By Scientists"" ... 2006 pandemic plan was bipartisan.

"Former Green Beret Who Allegedly Spied For Russia Arrested" .. there are actual traitors, but their political party isn't advertised.



Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 22, 2020, 12:52:11 PM
"'As Easy As Going To Starbucks' - Dr. Birx Says In-Person Voting Safe In November" ... agrees with Dr Fauci.  Putin got to her too!

"FEC ASKED IF LAURA LOOMER BAN VIOLATES ELECTION LAW, LOOMER MUST BE REINSTATED TO ALL PLATFORMS" ... some cancelled people will have to be uncancelled ;-)

"GIDDY FAKE NEWS "JOURNALISTS" RUN FROM BIDEN TO SEE FIREWORKS INSTEAD OF CHALLENGING HIM ON ANYTHI.." ... village idiots

"CELEBRITY ENDORSEMENTS MEAN LITERALLY NOTHING: HERE'S WHY" ... degenerates endorse compulsive liars?

"BLM LEFTIST CHARGED WITH TERROR, THE HAMMER IS DROPPING AND THESE CRAZIES CAN'T HIDE" ... had molotov cocktail but no mask

"Biden says Trump seeks to 'defund the police' -- through proposed cuts" ... typical Left projection.  Biden also accuses Trump of working for a foreign government, while taking bribes from Ukraine

""What Have Democrats Done To Solve ANYTHING?": Rose McGowan Goes Ballistic Over 'Rapist' Biden, 'Vacuous' Liberal Elites" ... they are good at chanting ... "Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh ... Snort A Line Of Coke"

"When these ghouls get back into power, are they going to continue to insist all their critics are really just Russian bots & Kremlin agents?" - Glenn Greenwald (on Twitter).  Glenn isn't conservative, not Republican, just an enemy of the Deep State

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 22, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
"Not Again!? Joe Biden Accused Of Plagiarizing Canadian Politician In DNC Speech" ... his ghost writer is guilty.  How many takes did it take to make that pre-recorded speech?

"Slammed NYC Movers Turning Away Business As Residents Flee City" ... burn it all down

"Arrest Made In Viral Hate Crime Against 7-Year-Old With MAGA Hat" ... 21 year old Hispanic woman picks on a 7 year old Anglo boy.  LARPing revolution, Batman!

Post in history section, Russian Revolution Simplified, so all your LARPing Reds can see how this is done, why Stalin is chad ;-)

"KAMALA HARRIS PRANKED WITH FAKE PHONE CALL, ACCEPTS DIRT ON TRUMP FROM FOREIGNERS" .. fake Queen Greta, bwahah ... this happened earlier this year, only came out because she too VP candidacy.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 23, 2020, 04:16:14 AM
"Democratic convention was a Trump Derangement Syndrome ‘group therapy session’" ... too bad all the doctors are R-party

"If fascism ever comes to America it will come in the form of liberalism" - Ronald Reagan, the actual quote by the actual guy, vs the fake one from the fake Churchill ;-)

This is why Black college students are calling for segregation at non-traditionally-Black colleges.

"Charged With FELONIES Sparks Political Crisis As Civil Unrest Erupts Nationwide" … reparations for felons.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 24, 2020, 08:38:19 PM
"State Of Emergency Declared, Armed Leftists Aim Rifles At Cops, Prepare For Nationwide Rioting" in Kenosha Wisconsin.  Burn it all down … leave no Dem city with a living body (Biblical punishment like Nineveh)

"The Theories WERE RIGHT Kim Jong Un Is Using a Body Double And In A Coma??" … Apparently Biden is using the same MO, and Harris prefers to snog the body double ;-)

"Richard Spencer Endorses Joe Biden, Democrats Have The White Nationalist Vote Locked Up" … American neo-Nazis know a fellow Nazi when the see one, and a descendent of a slave owner when they see one

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on August 24, 2020, 10:29:05 PM
When did Trump bring ''the economy back''? I only just heard about that, but I don't remember it.

Now DJTJ says Trump shut down travel from China. He didn't do that, either.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on August 24, 2020, 10:31:27 PM
This convention is job security for fact checkers!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 25, 2020, 02:16:39 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 24, 2020, 10:29:05 PM
When did Trump bring ''the economy back''? I only just heard about that, but I don't remember it.

Now DJTJ says Trump shut down travel from China. He didn't do that, either.

No, Trump did nothing.  Putin is G-d, he does everything.

Actually, the whole economy as GDP or Dow Jones is BS, but you already knew that.  I want all Americans to drown in their own poverty.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 25, 2020, 02:17:14 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 24, 2020, 10:31:27 PM
This convention is job security for fact checkers!

There is only one truth, Karl Marx.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on August 25, 2020, 06:27:02 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 24, 2020, 10:31:27 PM
This convention is job security for fact checkers!
I suppose making a drinking game of it by taking a shot every time he tells a lie would just be organized suicide.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 25, 2020, 09:22:26 AM
Quote from: trdsf on August 25, 2020, 06:27:02 AM
I suppose making a drinking game of it by taking a shot every time he tells a lie would just be organized suicide.

New TDS .. he encourages alcoholism …. funny!

Michelle is in love with George W and the Bush family supports the Bidens … you are being trolled by the whole Establishment.

"Portland BLM 'Revolutionaries' Bring Guillotine Into Suburbs Where They Burn American Flags, Fling Poo And Demand Shelter" … Dems = Poo …. this is low humor LARPing.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on August 25, 2020, 11:29:09 AM
Quote from: trdsf on August 25, 2020, 06:27:02 AM
I suppose making a drinking game of it by taking a shot every time he tells a lie would just be organized suicide.
I wouldn't make it past the first ten minutes!

:-D
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on August 25, 2020, 12:38:16 PM
Quote from: trdsf on August 25, 2020, 06:27:02 AM
I suppose making a drinking game of it by taking a shot every time he tells a lie would just be organized suicide.
That game is rigged so Republicans always win.

When Trump lies the Democrats drink, but Republicans think it's the truth.
After the convention is over, all the Democrats are dead from alcohol poisoning, but all the Republicans are still sober as judges.
No Democrats are alive to vote in the election, and Trump wins by a landslide.
America is great again, because no one that matters is around to protest.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 25, 2020, 01:24:12 PM
Quote from: SGOS on August 25, 2020, 12:38:16 PM
That game is rigged so Republicans always win.

When Trump lies the Democrats drink, but Republicans think it's the truth.
After the convention is over, all the Democrats are dead from alcohol poisoning, but all the Republicans are still sober as judges.
No Democrats are alive to vote in the election, and Trump wins by a landslide.
America is great again, because no one that matters is around to protest.

JFK = Republican
LBJ = Republican
Carter = Republican
Clinton = Republican
Obama = Republican

If all the Dems are closet Republicans (and I can argue that this list is) … then no wonder y'all are unhappy!  Maybe the DNC should fix your broken primary system?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 25, 2020, 05:48:50 PM
"Liberal Journalist Jemele Hill Says The U.S. Is As Bad As Nazi Germany" … send her to the ovens ;-)  Most African-Americans courtesy of Farrakhan are anti-Semites

"Watch: BLM Protesters Shot By Homeowners While Marching Through Rural Town" … apparently they didn't watch "Deliverance" … as Admiral Yamamoto used to say, in America there is a rifle behind every blade of grass (or MJ plant)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 26, 2020, 09:54:39 AM
"ARMED Citizens Are Taking to the Streets to DEFEND Kenosha Against BLM Rioters, This is CIVIL WAR" … if the cops won't or can't restore order, the vigilance committee will
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on August 26, 2020, 11:53:50 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgUCYghWoAApDqY?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 26, 2020, 01:32:07 PM
Second RNC night riddled with dishonesty (https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/25/politics/rnc-night-two-fact-check/index.html)

QuoteFirst Lady Melania Trump concluded the second night of the Republican National Convention with a speech in which she said, "Total honesty is what we as citizens deserve from our president."
So...someone else?  Rick Astley, maybe?  I dunno if the 22nd amendment would jive with him never saying goodbye, but at least he'd never tell a lie and hurt us.

QuoteEric Trump suggested that his father had achieved peace in the Middle East and brought never-ending wars to an end.
(https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-30-2015/5-qGwr.gif)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on August 26, 2020, 07:04:01 PM
Dems = Left handed devils
Repub= Right handed devils

"California Is A Failed State, Residents Are Fleeing Rolling Blackouts And Authoritarian Lockdown" … deserves an ironic video response …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHomETco0MI

Enjoying that 20% US uranium you got from Comrade Obama?

Which California nuclear reactor will go Chernobyl?  Already did at San Onofre?  Fictionally in 2001 thriller … Fallout

"Republican Convention Got SIX TIMES More Livestream Viewers Than Democrats, Media Narrative CRUMBL..
Watch" … on numbers with Tulsa rally … Dems are Neanderthals, they don't even have cable TV.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on August 27, 2020, 01:03:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/TI1foj2.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on August 27, 2020, 07:22:30 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 27, 2020, 01:03:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/TI1foj2.jpg)
I'm convinced that this is the kind of thing that won Biden the nomination.  He says nice things but they don't translate into any meaningful outcome.  So voters say, "Biden is a better guy the Trump because he will do what's right," which is not an expectation of a meaningful outcome.  I want more than that.  What  does a president say he's going to do?  Does he do it?  And is it what I want him to do?  I don't find philosophical bullshit inspiring.  The proof is in the nuts and bolts. 

I want universal healthcare.  Not some half ass crap that keeps the insurance salesman's foot in my door and my elected officials in his pocket.  I want equal justice, not a police force with a knee jerk response to shoot black people.  I don't want to pay taxes that are used by politicians to square accounts with their corporate donors.

And will someone please tell me who fucked up my mail?  My Netflix dvd delivery is now 5 days later than Netflix tells me it will be here, and my medications from Canada are now weeks later than they were.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on August 27, 2020, 11:11:57 AM
Quote from: SGOS on August 27, 2020, 07:22:30 AM
I'm convinced that this is the kind of thing that won Biden the nomination.  He says nice things but they don't translate into any meaningful outcome.  So voters say, "Biden is a better guy the Trump because he will do what's right," which is not an expectation of a meaningful outcome.  I want more than that.  What  does a president say he's going to do?  Does he do it?  And is it what I want him to do?  I don't find philosophical bullshit inspiring.  The proof is in the nuts and bolts. 

Politicians are not incentived to solve problems, the are incentivezed to win elections. When a politician gives specifics on complicated policies, he or she is inviting attacks by their adversaries.

I've daydreamed of a new system of democratic government that solves this incentive problem. Citizens would rank choice issues they want addressed, such as affordable healthcare, reducing unemployment, etc. A panel of experts for each issue would then set acheiveable, measurable goals. Different political parties would then list all their cabinet members and post a written proposal how they would meet those goals in a four-year term. Then voters would choose which team to install in office. If the poltical party doesn't meet all the goals by the end of term every member of the team is ineligible for re-election, they are all replaced. There would be no biparitsanship.

Quote from: SGOS on August 27, 2020, 07:22:30 AM
And will someone please tell me who fucked up my mail?  My Netflix dvd delivery is now 5 days later than Netflix tells me it will be here, and my medications from Canada are now weeks later than they were.

I'm having the same experience.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on August 27, 2020, 11:24:13 AM
Citizens would rank choice issues they want addressed, such as affordable healthcare, reducing unemployment, etc.
That would be ideal if extended to local government as well. Also need some sort of method to derive the list of issues that will be ranked.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on August 27, 2020, 01:15:40 PM
Quote from: Cassia on August 27, 2020, 11:24:13 AM
Citizens would rank choice issues they want addressed, such as affordable healthcare, reducing unemployment, etc.
That would be ideal if extended to local government as well. Also need some sort of method to derive the list of issues that will be ranked.
I haven't thought a lot about this as I have never even considered it before, although intuitively, I think this could be worked out, or some concept that is closely related to the idea.  The problem with "intuitively believing this would work" is that intuition is not a great way to arrive at conclusions.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 04, 2020, 11:49:44 AM
"Portland Murder Suspect Dead After Pulling Gun On Feds During Arrest; Admitted Guilt Hours Earlier In Vice Interview" ... death by cop, same as George Floyd etc

"FEDS ARREST BLM ANTIFA LEFTIST FOR SENDING BOMB THREAT TO PORTLAND POLICE, MEDIA PROTECTS FAR LEFT" ... burn down the media

"WOMAN BEATS 12 YEAR OLD BOY FOR CARRYING TRUMP SIGN SAY POLICE, TERMINAL TDS IS SERIOUS" .. women are trash

"NANCY PELOSI DEMANDS APOLOGY FROM SALON AFTER SHE BROKE COVID RULES AND ADMITTED IT" ... more women are trash

"DEMOCRATS ISSUE VEILED THREAT, VOTE FOR JOE BIDEN OR CITIES BURN, SAY THEY WILL NOT CONCEDE TO TRUMP" ... same as 1860, nuke Dem cities

"DEMS LIE, CLAIM TRUMP TOLD PEOPLE TO VOTE TWICE, TWITTER INTERFERES IN ELECTION AGAIN" same old same old

How the previous incarnation of the DNC IRA was eliminated ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhyDRbdVlS0

When cops were allowed to do their job ...

"Seattle mayor asks state Supreme Court to halt recall effort against her" ... fire her (like condo of Portland mayor?)

"Hunter Biden's deals 'served' China and its military, new documentary claims" .. Biden is CCP candidate

"Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best steps down, claims cuts left her 'destined to fail'" ... even Black females not good enough for Marxists

"Hair salon had to remove job ad for 'happy’ stylist because it is 'discriminatory' against unhappy people" ... why SJWs are as evil as communists

"Discover blocks donations to site raising money for Kyle Rittenhouse defense" ... burn the credit card companies?

"US employers hire 1.4M in August as unemployment rate falls sharply ... continued improvement ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dc3dnev9rY

And even I don't like him

“The result of preaching totalitarian doctrines is to weaken the instinct by means of which free peoples know what is or is not dangerous.” - George Orwell, Animal Farm ... humans are monkey people, animals too

"Bill Clinton Claims Trump Will "Sandbag" Himself Inside White House If He Loses" .. Bill just wants to bang more ladies in the WH and get back that Epstein portrait of him in the blue dress

"ANTIFA KILLER'S SISTER WARNS, HE WILL BE A MARTYR FOR FAR LEFTISTS AS CALLS FOR CIVIL WAR INTENSIF.." ... looking forward to the coming genocide.

"DHS Braces For 'Potential EMP Attack' As Presidential Election Nears" ... China or Russia can provide.  Or how about another CIA false flag?

"Rationalizing 'The Great Reset'" ... Agenda 2030, electronic slavery to the UN, which is run by the Elite.

""A man wearing a Patriot Prayer hat was murdered in Portland by a criminal who said he was "100% Antifa" and instead of banning Antifa pages, Facebook banned Patriot Prayer..."" ... Facebook is evil

"TRUMP'S "VOTE TWICE" COMMENT TRICKED MEDIA INTO ACCEPTING MAIL IN VOTING IS BROKEN" ... Dems will, so Repubs should too ;-p  Trump again demonstrates his ability to troll all the "smart" people.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on September 05, 2020, 10:57:28 PM
I'm hoping the debates go forward.  I've heard that Biden says he will fact check Trump during the debates.  That raises two points that I find interesting.

1. The idea that Trump would use facts.
2. The idea that Biden could fact-check anyone.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on September 05, 2020, 11:39:56 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on September 05, 2020, 10:57:28 PM
I'm hoping the debates go forward.  I've heard that Biden says he will fact check Trump during the debates.  That raises two points that I find interesting.

1. The idea that Trump would use facts.
2. The idea that Biden could fact-check anyone.
I thought this was hilarious, but aside from the humor, I don't think facts are that important to most voters.  Some for sure, but for most not.  I would arrange the following qualities in order of their importance to most voters.

Party affiliation
Stage presence
Looks
Gender
Skin color
Integrity
Intelligence
Grasp of facts

The exact placements may be up for debate, except for party affiliation being the most important factor in winning the debate, while integrity, grasp of facts, and intelligence would probably be close to the bottom.  There may be factors I left out that could be somewhere in the middle.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 06, 2020, 09:18:39 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on September 05, 2020, 10:57:28 PM
I'm hoping the debates go forward.  I've heard that Biden says he will fact check Trump during the debates.  That raises two points that I find interesting.

1. The idea that Trump would use facts.
2. The idea that Biden could fact-check anyone.

Both are professional liars, one from the commercial sector, one from the political sector.  Facts are weapons, so are lies.  Both will be used.  Fact checking organizations are infiltrated by political operatives, just as Wikipedia article of H W Bush is.

IMHO, I don't want the debates to go forward ... because Biden is a case of elder abuse, and Harris is a case of ironic Black cultural appropriation.  Pence might be the only adult in the room.  The moderator in any case is a Deep State Journalist who will do what the CIA tells him to.

If I voted again, again I would vote third party, even though the Libertarian candidate this time is more cringeworthy than the one last time (who I voted for).  The libertarians reverted to form, as they were in 1976, when I got to meet their VP candidate in person at a small meeting at college.  Basically make everything legal, including rioting.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on September 07, 2020, 03:54:47 AM
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5b3cf7f3da02bc625d110b92/1584926092222-BIYYJILUU8HFUBAHN3S6/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kIyIhpmgZkr3Gk0l9jPmYeBZw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWQUxwkmyExglNqGp0IvTJZUJFbgE-7XRK3dMEBRBhUpyX9RYMdiH8h0T7vvmAJ4CJU2AFykoc-wDf_VGDHeTeQm-o2OtvSn0wT1qAKFioVBM/IMG_9199.jpg?format=1000w)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on September 09, 2020, 06:13:48 PM
Bob Woodward strikes again: during interviews earlier this year, the Oval Orifice admitted that a) he knew just how bad COVID-19 was and b) he deliberately downplayed it (https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/bob-woodward-rage-book-trump-coronavirus/index.html).

And there are tapes (https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-woodward-book-09-09-2020/h_5bb44945ec0cf0eba9cdd92ab28fde3c).

Good luck spinning his own voice as "fake news"...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 09, 2020, 06:57:06 PM
Quote from: trdsf on September 09, 2020, 06:13:48 PM
Bob Woodward strikes again: during interviews earlier this year, the Oval Orifice admitted that a) he knew just how bad COVID-19 was and b) he deliberately downplayed it (https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/bob-woodward-rage-book-trump-coronavirus/index.html).

And there are tapes (https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-woodward-book-09-09-2020/h_5bb44945ec0cf0eba9cdd92ab28fde3c).

Good luck spinning his own voice as "fake news"...

Mr Woodward is a well known CIA agent ;-)  CIA should cancel elections and just appoint their best agent as President.

"Departing Facebook engineer accuses tech giant of 'profiting off hate'" ... better than profiting from detergent

"Taco Bell customer threatens staff, spews racial slurs over price of tacos: 'I'm Charlie Manson's daughter!'" ... a true Democrat

"SECRET COALITION OF LEFTIST GROUPS ARE PREPARING FOR POST ELECTION VIOLENCE, UNLESS JOE BIDEN WINS" ... aka CIA, FBI

"Palestinian hijacker Leila Khaled to speak at San Francisco State University, Jewish groups condemn invitation" ... typical of Muslim allied Dems

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on September 09, 2020, 08:19:02 PM
Although a lot of people are saying that if the election isn't settled we will get an interim president Pelosi, they are actually wrong.  There is a constitution remedy in the 2nd Article and the 12th Amendment.

In the event that the elector college fails to pick, the decision gets sent to the House of Representatives.  However, in spite of the Democratic majority, that won't result in a Democratic victory.

27 state delegations have a Republican majority.  21 states delegations have a Democratic majority.  1 state is evenly tied, and one state is 7D, 6R, and 1L.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on September 14, 2020, 11:58:15 AM
Don't worry fellow scared suburban conservatives ! When black, brown, gay, and atheist hordes come to plunder your solar path lights and plastic kiddie pools, Trumpy Bear is here to protect and console you !! I am so scared about this election I was just about to order mine until I read this Amazon review..

Do not purchase. Very poorly assembled. Hair was thin and spotty. One eyebrow had very little hair while the other was fine. Certificate contained typographical errors and referred to product as "Trampy Bear" in one instance. Airbagged packaged in an envelope, but finally fluffed out ok. Absolutely would not recommend this purchase!

(https://images.newrepublic.com/82344da3bf4e152a4355d736a555ca581e409636.png?w=1024&h=512&crop=faces&fit=crop&fm=jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 14, 2020, 12:25:12 PM
I thought that ad was hilarious!  And as I understand it, being atheist or gay isn't the same as being communist, I have no fear of the atheist or gay hordes.  The communists are another matter, and the rioters and other sociopaths.  Those I will oppose.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on September 14, 2020, 01:33:50 PM
Quote from: Baruch on September 14, 2020, 12:25:12 PM
I thought that ad was hilarious!  And as I understand it, being atheist or gay isn't the same as being communist, I have no fear of the atheist or gay hordes.  The communists are another matter, and the rioters and other sociopaths.  Those I will oppose.
The "MyPillow guy has to be involved somehow  :zzz:
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on September 14, 2020, 03:59:17 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on September 09, 2020, 08:19:02 PM
Although a lot of people are saying that if the election isn't settled we will get an interim president Pelosi, they are actually wrong.  There is a constitution remedy in the 2nd Article and the 12th Amendment.

In the event that the elector college fails to pick, the decision gets sent to the House of Representatives.  However, in spite of the Democratic majority, that won't result in a Democratic victory.

27 state delegations have a Republican majority.  21 states delegations have a Democratic majority.  1 state is evenly tied, and one state is 7D, 6R, and 1L.
It would be the incoming new Congress, not the current one, to do the voting.  However, I don't really expect enough, or even any, delegations to flip.

If the election goes to the next Congress, and if Democrats can flip the Senate (just possible), you could have the bizarre circumstance of the House choosing the Oval Orifice and the Senate choosing Kamala Harris.  The 12th Amendment is silent on what happens if the Senate is evenly divided -- it does not say that the current VP casts a tiebreaker, although I imagine Pence would try to.  And then we get the Supreme Court involved, and I have no idea how they would decide that one.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on September 15, 2020, 11:31:04 AM
Trump's people used Russian MIGs and Russian Troops in a "support out troops ad". Sharp bunch? or just truth in advertising? Morons in any event.
(https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/142/926/9926142.jpeg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 15, 2020, 11:33:11 AM
How is this different from "I started 4 new wars and got a Nobel" Obama?  You either work for the MIC or you are dead.  Just ask JFK or MLK.

"Exhaustive Pentagon Review Finds No Evidence For NYTimes' "Russian Bounties" Story" ... a vast Trump conspiracy, I tells yah

"LEFTISTS CHEER BILLIONAIRE CASH IN ELECTIONS AS BLOOMBERG PLEDGES 100 MILLION FOR BIDEN" ... liberals taken for a ride

"TRUMP WANTS A 4 HOUR DEBATE WITH BIDEN HOSTED BY JOE ROGAN" ... Biden falls asleep after 5 mins, then Trump does what he likes most, spends the next 4 hours talking about himself ;-p

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on September 15, 2020, 12:08:10 PM
How is this different from "I started 4 new wars and got a Nobel" Obama?
Right. The Bush fiascos. Bush senior does a half-assed job and has no after-war plan. And then Jr attacks Iraq and Afghanistan because Saudis and Egyptians blew up NYC and the pentagon on his watch. Again leaves Iraq with no plan just like his old man. Well it's all gawds fault anyways. He made them do it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on September 15, 2020, 12:16:51 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/nCZbSdp/putin-trump-kiss-mural-by-mindaugas-bonanu-2wj14h8zd0-480x301.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 15, 2020, 12:47:36 PM
Quote from: Cassia on September 15, 2020, 12:08:10 PM
How is this different from "I started 4 new wars and got a Nobel" Obama?
Right. The Bush fiascos. Bush senior does a half-assed job and has no after-war plan. And then Jr attacks Iraq and Afghanistan because Saudis and Egyptians blew up NYC and the pentagon on his watch. Again leaves Iraq with no plan just like his old man. Well it's all gawds fault anyways. He made them do it.

Since WW II, the MIC isn't interested in peace or winning, it is all about war profiteering.  WW II got the US out of the Great Depression, not the New Deal.  I am one of the beneficiaries, not that I favor combat, I cared for the young people I worked with.  I would have had to do something else for a living (and planned to) if it wasn't for the Cold War and War on Terror.  So "Que Bono".  The Taliban ended the opium trade.  The CIA runs the world drug trade (since Vietnam at least, Golden Triangle).

This is how the spooks money launder ... and regular criminals too.  The US invasion of Afghanistan reestablished the opium trade, so that it could go into Russia to addict the Russian people.  See British Empire 1840s Opium Wars with China.  OSS/CIA worked with the Jewish and Italian Mafia in WW II, with German war criminals after WW II.  JFK was son of Irish-American Mafia, who worked with the Italian-American Mafia.

It isn't clear just how connected the Saudi Royals are to 9/11, and who all were involved.  Just saying.  Before 9/11, George W was putting a stick in China's eye (2001 spy plane incident).  Never let a crisis go to waste seems bipartisan to me.  The larger point is, modern nation states cannot prosper without ever greater government expenditure, and MIC is a convenient way to do this (war is very expensive).  There is no final victory anytime in history.  Just study the endless wars with Persia (still happening now).  Not saying that Osama Bin Ladin or Saddam Hussein are saints.

What does Trump have to do with any of this?  He wants to moderate the warmongering.  Seems good to me.  That prior image seems anti-gay to me.  Why shouldn't Putin and Trump get it on, are you a bigot? ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on September 15, 2020, 01:38:14 PM
Quote from: Cassia on September 15, 2020, 11:31:04 AM
Trump's people used Russian MIGs and Russian Troops in a "support out troops ad". Sharp bunch? or just truth in advertising? Morons in any event.
He didn't actually say whose troops to support... and he's so far in Vlad the Impaler Putin's back pocket, he probably thinks Russian troops are his anyway.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 15, 2020, 03:06:01 PM
Quote from: trdsf on September 15, 2020, 01:38:14 PM
He didn't actually say whose troops to support... and he's so far in Vlad the Impaler Putin's back pocket, he probably thinks Russian troops are his anyway.

Death to Russia
Life to China
Death to Russia
Life to China ... something wrong with this, they are allies!

"POLICE CHARGE BLM LEFTISTS WHO HARASSED ELDERLY COUPLE, RAID ON ANTIFA ENDS LANCASTER RIOTS" ... arrest all violent street people, put them in a time machine, send them back to Woodstock 1969 where they belong!

General "Mad Dog" Mattis projecting Burt Lancaster ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRiZtqVPJ9U

"Joe Biden And Kamala Harris Both Refer To 'Harris Administration' During Public Speeches" ... if Biden gets in, he will resign, make Kamala President, then Kamala brings in Hillary as VP, then Hillary assassinates Kamala (suicided with two bullets to back of head, like Vince Foster), and Hillary's Manifest Destiny is achieved ... Bwhaha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tDeDiLowB4

Yes, Hippies go away already!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxzq9BLE5Hg

America, go the distance!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on September 15, 2020, 06:27:01 PM
Shades of Hitler like actions:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/whistleblower-ice-hysterectomies-georgia_n_5f60d307c5b68d1b09c812b6

Forced hysterectomies.  And we are the moral beacon for the world............
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on September 15, 2020, 06:29:00 PM
Scientific American Makes First Political Endorsement In 175 Years

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/scientific-american-endorses-joe-biden_n_5f60e701c5b6e27db133a902
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on September 15, 2020, 07:35:38 PM
Quote from: trdsf on September 14, 2020, 03:59:17 PM
It would be the incoming new Congress, not the current one, to do the voting.  However, I don't really expect enough, or even any, delegations to flip.

If the election goes to the next Congress, and if Democrats can flip the Senate (just possible), you could have the bizarre circumstance of the House choosing the Oval Orifice and the Senate choosing Kamala Harris.  The 12th Amendment is silent on what happens if the Senate is evenly divided -- it does not say that the current VP casts a tiebreaker, although I imagine Pence would try to.  And then we get the Supreme Court involved, and I have no idea how they would decide that one.

True, but how much do you expect the congress to flip?  I'm not talking about Congress as a whole, which is already Democratic, but individual state delegations.

As it stands now, 27 state delegations are Republican and 21 are Democratic. One is evenly tied, and one is split 3 ways but is 50% Democratic. If the vote were taken right now it would be a Republican victory, but that is not all there is.

If there are contested House races, it falls within the power of the House to vote on which person to seat. The obvious contender are the states where the delegation is already 50%, MI and PA. Then CO and FL both have an odd number of Representatives AND are 50%+1 Republican, meaning that one seat switched would lead to them being 50%+1 Democrat.

That does only bring the count to 25 to 25, evenly tied. It requires four contested races being decided in the House, so it isn't enough to get 26. So that leaves some states with a bigger margin to overcome.

There are 5 states that have only one Representative: AK, MT, ND, SD, WY. Unfortunately they are all very solidly red states, a contested race there would be quite obviously a setup. Then there are states where you need two seats to switch: ID, KS, MS, NE, SC, UT, WV, and WI. Again they are all Red states, having two seats up for grabs that way in any one of them also is a little hard to envision.

Still, that leaves 13 options, so maybe one of them could be worked to give the Democrats a 26-24 advantage in the House.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on September 15, 2020, 08:38:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idPv9zAkL48
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 15, 2020, 09:26:09 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 15, 2020, 06:27:01 PM
Shades of Hitler like actions:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/whistleblower-ice-hysterectomies-georgia_n_5f60d307c5b68d1b09c812b6

Forced hysterectomies.  And we are the moral beacon for the world............

Bad precedents for that in early 20th century ;-(  For profit prisons ring a bell?  Not a good idea ever.  Another bipartisan thing, like cops and Kamala.  Planned Parenthood was developed 120 years ago to kill of the African-Americans.  We are less prejudiced now, we want to kill of a wider scope of people.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 15, 2020, 09:27:12 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 15, 2020, 06:29:00 PM
Scientific American Makes First Political Endorsement In 175 Years

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/scientific-american-endorses-joe-biden_n_5f60e701c5b6e27db133a902

Guess I would have to drop my subscription, if I had one.  Used to be a great non-partisan magazine, but all the academics are commies now.

@Jason Harvestdancer ... politics is local, so they say.  People vote for policies that hurt them, and which help the sponsors of political action.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on September 16, 2020, 09:42:44 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on September 15, 2020, 07:35:38 PM
True, but how much do you expect the congress to flip?  I'm not talking about Congress as a whole, which is already Democratic, but individual state delegations.
Yes, I know that.  I said I don't expect enough delegations to flip.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on September 17, 2020, 06:44:16 AM
I haven't been out a lot but I've seen people with Trump t-shirts, hats, face masks, lawn signs, bumper stickers and giant flags. I've seen maybe a couple of Biden bumper stickers.

MAGA Visibility Is Making Democrats Nervous (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/09/maga-visibility-is-making-democrats-nervous.html)

... But this year the COVID-19 pandemic has understandably led Biden-Harris strategists to rely on more remote mobilization techniques, at least so far. And the contrast with the extremely visible advocates of MAGA, who are far less inhibited by public health guidance, is making some Democrats nervous, as TIME’s Charlotte Alter discovered in Michigan:

This year, 83-year old former Chrysler employee [Don Sabbe] says he’ll definitely vote for Joe Biden, but he’s getting concerned about Biden’s campaign here in Michigan.

“I can’t even find a sign,” Sabbe says outside a Kroger’s in Sterling Heights, where surrounding cars fly massive Donald Trump flags that say “No More Bullsh-t” and fellow shoppers wear Trump T-shirts for their weekend grocery runs. “I’m looking for one of those storefronts. I’m looking for a campaign office for Biden. And I’m not finding one.”

The reason Sabbe can’t find a dedicated Biden campaign field office is because there aren’t any around here. Not in Macomb County, the swing region where Sabbe lives. It’s not even clear Biden has opened any new dedicated field offices in the state; because of the pandemic, they’ve moved their field organizing effort online. ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on September 17, 2020, 09:08:37 AM
I find it odd and disturbing how inept the Democrats have become in the last couple of decades.  They are perfectly capable of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory once again.  The older I become the more I simply find myself understand less and less of the politics of this country.  Except for one thing--money rules!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 17, 2020, 10:21:22 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 17, 2020, 09:08:37 AM
I find it odd and disturbing how inept the Democrats have become in the last couple of decades.  They are perfectly capable of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory once again.  The older I become the more I simply find myself understand less and less of the politics of this country.  Except for one thing--money rules!

Power rules.  Money is a form of power.  Yes, a primary fact is that the DNC wants to fail, either to not get elected, or to do the wrong things.  I have always seen that in the RNC.  Don't worry about the peasants!  We simply aren't that important to the millionaires other than as a nuisance.  Yes, candidates still get elected, but that is in spite of their crappy campaigns and their crappy party leaderships.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on September 17, 2020, 12:50:51 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on September 17, 2020, 06:44:16 AM
I haven't been out a lot but I've seen people with Trump t-shirts, hats, face masks, lawn signs, bumper stickers and giant flags. I've seen maybe a couple of Biden bumper stickers.

MAGA Visibility Is Making Democrats Nervous (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/09/maga-visibility-is-making-democrats-nervous.html)

... But this year the COVID-19 pandemic has understandably led Biden-Harris strategists to rely on more remote mobilization techniques, at least so far. And the contrast with the extremely visible advocates of MAGA, who are far less inhibited by public health guidance, is making some Democrats nervous, as TIME’s Charlotte Alter discovered in Michigan:

This year, 83-year old former Chrysler employee [Don Sabbe] says he’ll definitely vote for Joe Biden, but he’s getting concerned about Biden’s campaign here in Michigan.

“I can’t even find a sign,” Sabbe says outside a Kroger’s in Sterling Heights, where surrounding cars fly massive Donald Trump flags that say “No More Bullsh-t” and fellow shoppers wear Trump T-shirts for their weekend grocery runs. “I’m looking for one of those storefronts. I’m looking for a campaign office for Biden. And I’m not finding one.”

The reason Sabbe can’t find a dedicated Biden campaign field office is because there aren’t any around here. Not in Macomb County, the swing region where Sabbe lives. It’s not even clear Biden has opened any new dedicated field offices in the state; because of the pandemic, they’ve moved their field organizing effort online. ...

I have not seen many Trump signs around here, even where I remember seeing them four years ago.  They're definitely fewer and further between.

On one street, I was treated to the spectacularly willfully blind "TRUMP 2020 NO MORE BULLSHIT" sign on one side of the street... and directly across was a yard sign simply saying "FUCK TRUMP".

I think I'll definitely call this the weirdest Presidential campaign I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on September 19, 2020, 08:11:35 PM
Since our longest war is winding down, I guess we'll need another enemy soon. My expectation is that it will be Iran, and soon, likely even before the coming ''election.''
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 19, 2020, 10:05:45 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 19, 2020, 08:11:35 PM
Since our longest war is winding down, I guess we'll need another enemy soon. My expectation is that it will be Iran, and soon, likely even before the coming ''election.''

I would hope not.  Isn't a new US Civil War enough to boost the economy?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on September 19, 2020, 10:42:16 PM
I fully expect to see the USA use a nuke before Trump's second term is finished. Maybe Iran, maybe Venezuela, maybe N. Korea, or maybe someplace not in play yet.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on September 20, 2020, 12:43:46 AM
Well played, Joe, well played (https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1307491919384260609).  :D
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on September 20, 2020, 01:54:59 AM
Biden nears 50% in polls - both nationally and in key battleground states (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/18/joe-biden-polls-electoral-college-417880)

QuoteAccording to the latest RealClearPolitics average, Biden is sitting at 49.3 percent in national surveys and has a 6.2 percentage point lead over President Donald Trump. That’s significantly higher than Clinton’s 44.9 percent mark this time four years ago, which was good for only a 1 point lead.
6 point lead compared to Clinton's 1 point lead this time 4 years (Is "years" correct?  Cause they feel like decades) ago.

QuoteIt’s the same story in many of the battleground states: Biden is at or within 2 points of majority support in enough states to lock down an Electoral College victory, compared with Clinton’s low- to mid-40s scores in mid-September 2016 in the same states, some of which she would end up losing as late-deciding voters went decisively for Trump.
Don't uncork the champagne though.  Get out and vote like it's your last opportunity to vote.  Cause it might be.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on September 20, 2020, 03:37:12 AM
Quote from: Cassia on September 15, 2020, 12:16:51 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/nCZbSdp/putin-trump-kiss-mural-by-mindaugas-bonanu-2wj14h8zd0-480x301.jpg)

There are other ones watching that scene in envy.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 20, 2020, 09:52:06 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 19, 2020, 10:42:16 PM
I fully expect to see the USA use a nuke before Trump's second term is finished. Maybe Iran, maybe Venezuela, maybe N. Korea, or maybe someplace not in play yet.

Boys love fires, the bigger the better.  Women are more practical eg cooking only.  No, nuke California and any other Confederate/Dem state.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on September 20, 2020, 01:40:29 PM
Also, Biden polls better than Trump with Independents (https://www.npr.org/2020/09/18/914103948/poll-biden-maintains-lead-over-trump): 57% to Trump's paltry 36%

That's a substantial improvement over Clinton, who only got 42% of Independents.

A worrying thing about these polls is that whites are apparently evenly split between Biden and Trump.  But apparently, it's fairly common for whites to be torn between R and D candidates - in every presidential election including and since 1972, whites have leaned R - the only times it's been even close have been with Jimmy Carter and both of Bill Clinton's presidential races.  The Republicans' Southern Strategy of inflaming and then exploiting racial hatreds for personal gain has largely been successful, though Ol' Reliable seems to be over-milked as of late.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on September 21, 2020, 08:54:56 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on September 17, 2020, 06:44:16 AM
I haven't been out a lot but I've seen people with Trump t-shirts, hats, face masks, lawn signs, bumper stickers and giant flags. I've seen maybe a couple of Biden bumper stickers.

MAGA Visibility Is Making Democrats Nervous (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/09/maga-visibility-is-making-democrats-nervous.html)

... But this year the COVID-19 pandemic has understandably led Biden-Harris strategists to rely on more remote mobilization techniques, at least so far. And the contrast with the extremely visible advocates of MAGA, who are far less inhibited by public health guidance, is making some Democrats nervous, as TIME’s Charlotte Alter discovered in Michigan:

This year, 83-year old former Chrysler employee [Don Sabbe] says he’ll definitely vote for Joe Biden, but he’s getting concerned about Biden’s campaign here in Michigan.

“I can’t even find a sign,” Sabbe says outside a Kroger’s in Sterling Heights, where surrounding cars fly massive Donald Trump flags that say “No More Bullsh-t” and fellow shoppers wear Trump T-shirts for their weekend grocery runs. “I’m looking for one of those storefronts. I’m looking for a campaign office for Biden. And I’m not finding one.”

The reason Sabbe can’t find a dedicated Biden campaign field office is because there aren’t any around here. Not in Macomb County, the swing region where Sabbe lives. It’s not even clear Biden has opened any new dedicated field offices in the state; because of the pandemic, they’ve moved their field organizing effort online. ...

Oddly, since I moved to a remote part of Virginia, I have lived in a sea of Republican signs.  Many people here have left their Trump signs up since 2016, only updating the year of the election.  In a 50 mile radius from my house, I have never seen one sign supporting a Democrat.. Until this year.  There are two Biden signs within 10 miles of my house that showed up in the last month.  I was stunned.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on September 22, 2020, 09:51:01 PM
Trump won't nuke.  He is much less consistent on the military than a career politician, since he came up by a different route.  His personal focus starts and ends with the economy, and other stuff is to please his base.

He even called out the leadership of the military.  As a vet I can say the grunts don't much like the leadership.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on September 22, 2020, 10:13:04 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on September 22, 2020, 09:51:01 PMHe is much less consistent on the military than a career politician, since he came up by a different route.
Is that code for "horribly unqualified, erratic, and basically impossible to consult, therefore his policy positions are all over the place"?

QuoteHis personal focus starts and ends with the economy
The economy is certainly his favorite talking point (though less so today, for some reason).  Basically, if the stock market is high, he tells his cultists that he did it and they believe him.

QuoteHe even called out the leadership of the military
He got into infantile spats with people who have vastly more knowledge and expertise them him.  He may have occasionally come to a reasonable conclusion (exhibit A: Bolton) but the process by which he arrived there is a goddamn trainwreck.

QuoteAs a vet I can say the grunts don't much like the leadership.
Evidentially.  Trump lags behind Biden even in the military (https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/08/31/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden/), which is quite a feat considering that Biden is allegedly some super-left commie.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 22, 2020, 11:04:11 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on September 22, 2020, 09:51:01 PM
Trump won't nuke.  He is much less consistent on the military than a career politician, since he came up by a different route.  His personal focus starts and ends with the economy, and other stuff is to please his base.

He even called out the leadership of the military.  As a vet I can say the grunts don't much like the leadership.

Obama was like Gandhi!  Michelle loves George W!  Psychosis yet?

The leadership murdered thousands of grunts in Korea and Vietnam (but the grunts were draftees).  Volunteer military is professional, they won't take that kind of crap from the leadership again.

The Leftist model is that the US military is just like the Russian military in 1917 ... but then they smoke heavy shit.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on September 23, 2020, 10:12:57 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvRxe6HAV-4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIjenjANqAk

Swing and a miss and another miss and oops we've created a mentally unstable mob full of people unglued from reality.  Help them out and educate them a little bit or point them at our political enemies?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on September 25, 2020, 05:18:47 AM
I don't have any illusions about changing the minds of Trump supporters just as I can't imagine my own opinion of Trump changing. I would ask them the classic election question "Are you better off now than you were four years ago?"

Republicans have been in charge so if you like how things are in 2020 then keep the same politicians in office.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on September 25, 2020, 05:50:35 AM
Most of Trump's supporters do feel better off than 4 years ago.  Pushing the oppressed to the point of rebellion is a warm fuzzy, proving that the oppressed are unworthy.  And if I were a religious fanatic, I would be enthralled with a right wing Supreme Court, no matter how unconventionally they were appointed.  That the 1% should get more of the tax base for themselves would be a non issue.  The biggest improvement for Trump supporters is that they now have a voice, and they love the idea of an outspoken lunatic unleashing so many of their own crazy thoughts without concern over the blow back.  This is the freedom they have sought.  America is finally great again.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on September 25, 2020, 06:38:21 AM
I think there was a sizable block of thoughtless voters who "just wanted to see what would happen".
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on September 25, 2020, 06:44:31 AM
Quote from: SGOS on September 25, 2020, 05:50:35 AM
Most of Trump's supporters do feel better off than 4 years ago.

This is where I have to recognize I have a skewed perspective because it seems to me that many people regardless of political affiliation are frustrated, fearful and worried about the future. Polls have shown a large increase in Americans reporting anxiety, depression and increased substance use. I doubt Trump supporters are happy, I suspect they just don't blame Trump for perceived problems.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on September 25, 2020, 07:22:18 AM
Quote from: Cassia on September 25, 2020, 06:38:21 AM
I think there was a sizable block of thoughtless voters who "just wanted to see what would happen".
lol  I have to admit, I was interested in seeing what would happen, not enough to actually vote for the guy, but I did start off with an intense curiosity.  "Let's see how the Hell this is going to work out."  Now if I were a Democrat, rather than a Liberal, I would have been doing a lot of hand wringing and had a bigger stake in the whole thing (probably), but as it was, I was curious.  So I can see that some people may have said something like, "Well, we are getting nowhere with a Democratic leadership, I think I'll vote Republican."   Although, I don't know how many people would act on that.  Apparently there were a lot, especially in those states that turned red from blue, there had to be some serious dissatisfaction with the Democratic leadership.  I don't know how many switched parties, or how many just stayed home.  In fact, I believe this attitude has been growing among Liberals for a long time, and as much as Trump displeases those people now, I think that attitude still exists.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on September 25, 2020, 08:04:25 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on September 25, 2020, 06:44:31 AM
This is where I have to recognize I have a skewed perspective because it seems to me that many people regardless of political affiliation are frustrated, fearful and worried about the future. Polls have shown a large increase in Americans reporting anxiety, depression and increased substance use. I doubt Trump supporters are happy, I suspect they just don't blame Trump for perceived problems.
If Republicans aren't happy right now, I'm at a loss to explain why.  In the last four years, the Republican Party has delivered to its constituents far more than it ever has.  They have changed the direction of the nation dramatically in ways matter to the average Republican.  What's not for them to be happy about?  Yes, Republicans failed at repealing Obamacare and probably a few other promises, but over all they have made tremendous strides during the Trump administration.  They did their job and got it done as far as I can tell.  Much of this is not the work of Trump, but he does act as a relief valve for right wing frustrations.  He speaks to his supporters hearts, toxic and vulgar as he does, but in ways they seem to approve and understand.

But I think you are right that people are more frustrated, anxious, and depressed that ever before.  Probably more so than during the Great Depression.  America is in a slide.  Our global supremacy is in decline. We are more vulnerable, both in national security and economically. And worst of all we hate each other.  But I suppose this is normal when people get frustrated.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on September 25, 2020, 08:10:00 AM
My company offered to fund engineers to pursue an MBA degree. The class that affected me the most was marketing. The science of manipulation. The art of the 'spin'. The 'pull'. The 'push'. The tugging on emotion. The marketer, the politician, the salesman, the lobbyist, the priest, the magician, the extremist. All the same.

Anyone who exists way out on the wings has been manipulated. Facts are simply not out there by definition. However, statistics predict that they will happen to represent the truth on rare occasions. But that does not matter because it is buried their noise.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 25, 2020, 12:50:05 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on September 25, 2020, 05:18:47 AM
I don't have any illusions about changing the minds of Trump supporters just as I can't imagine my own opinion of Trump changing. I would ask them the classic election question "Are you better off now than you were four years ago?"

Republicans have been in charge so if you like how things are in 2020 then keep the same politicians in office.

My ex and daughter are liberals, have full TDS from the start.  My ex is so crazy, and being half Italian, she would rather move to Italy and claim dual citizenship and support La Cosa Nostra than be an American except under the most liberal possible government.  Psychopathy, mania and paranoia.  They are most dear to me, but they must do what they must do.  This is the only degree by which the election touches me, otherwise I don't give a flip what happens to the US or the World.  Burn it all down, or don't.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 25, 2020, 12:52:27 PM
Quote from: Cassia on September 25, 2020, 06:38:21 AM
I think there was a sizable block of thoughtless voters who "just wanted to see what would happen".

I voted for Gary Johnson, so did my daughter.  I have never been a Republican, neither has she.  Every time you vote, unless you know the candidate personally, you are making a shot in the dark, like Breonna Taylor's gangster boyfriend.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 25, 2020, 12:55:11 PM
Quote from: Cassia on September 25, 2020, 08:10:00 AM
My company offered to fund engineers to pursue an MBA degree. The class that affected me the most was marketing. The science of manipulation. The art of the 'spin'. The 'pull'. The 'push'. The tugging on emotion. The marketer, the politician, the salesman, the lobbyist, the priest, the magician, the extremist. All the same.

Anyone who exists way out on the wings has been manipulated. Facts are simply not out there by definition. However, statistics predict that they will happen to represent the truth on rare occasions. But that does not matter because it is buried their noise.


Edward Bernays, nephew of Sigmund Freud.  It wasn't just Joseph Goebbels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOUcXK_7d_c
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on September 25, 2020, 01:41:52 PM
Quote from: SGOS on September 25, 2020, 08:04:25 AM
If Republicans aren't happy right now, I'm at a loss to explain why.  In the last four years, the Republican Party has delivered to its constituents far more than it ever has.  They have changed the direction of the nation dramatically in ways matter to the average Republican.  What's not for them to be happy about?  Yes, Republicans failed at repealing Obamacare and probably a few other promises, but over all they have made tremendous strides during the Trump administration.  They did their job and got it done as far as I can tell.  Much of this is not the work of Trump, but he does act as a relief valve for right wing frustrations.  He speaks to his supporters hearts, toxic and vulgar as he does, but in ways they seem to approve and understand.

But I think you are right that people are more frustrated, anxious, and depressed that ever before.  Probably more so than during the Great Depression.  America is in a slide.  Our global supremacy is in decline. We are more vulnerable, both in national security and economically. And worst of all we hate each other.  But I suppose this is normal when people get frustrated.

That sounds familiar. But in a different way. Here, the religious government has been upset for some time because they KNOW they can't administrate. The country has changed so dramatically in the last 17 years, they can't believe themselves. They have been aware of it before the economical collapse few years ago. and they know they can't do anything either.

Would it be too much to say that as the republican brain team is not actually stupid, they perfectly know they can't really administrate the country?

The Funny thing is 15 years ago this wouldn't happen. Hell, 10 years ago it wouldn't happen. This angle wouldn't be there. I mean a political wing; a camp, wouldn't think this way, wouldn't care what is going to happen as long as they win, but then it would be obscure anyway. Not that anyone would put their minds into the future that way. LOL

E: That's a good hint about how radicalised the world got in short time. Also pandemic probably played a role too. And considering it is not going anywhere for a few years yet.  Ooof I want to move to another planet.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 25, 2020, 01:45:06 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on September 25, 2020, 01:41:52 PM
That sounds familiar. But in a different way. Here, the religious government has been upset for some time because they KNOW they can't administrate. The country has changed so dramatically in the last 17 years, they can't believe themselves. They have been aware of it before the economical collapse few years ago. and they know they can't do anything either.

Would it be too much to say that as the republican brain team is not actually stupid, they perfectly know they can't really administrate the country?

The Funny thing is 15 years ago this wouldn't happen. Hell, 10 years ago it wouldn't happen. This angle wouldn't be there. I mean a political wing; a camp, wouldn't think this way, wouldn't care what is going to happen as long as they win, but then it would be obscure anyway. Not that anyone would put their minds into the future that way. LOL

Empires built on pillage eventually run out of other people's money, same as Socialism.  Can clerics run finance?  Specialization of labor says no.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64Sl-km0M2k

Even gays want to vote Trump.  Biden can bring Lenin's corpse from Moscow to his rally of the dead communists ;-)  A good rally theme song for them is the Darth Vader theme ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNv5sPu0C1E

... for all those Dem war mongers and their Deep State storm troopers!  Hillary looks just like the evil Emperor ... Republicans are the pre-quels ... the old Republic.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on September 27, 2020, 07:04:30 PM
Who knew Fox had honest staff?  At a minimum, someone wasn't paying attention whether there was a hot mic in their vicinity (https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1310332612460847104)... best laugh I've had all week.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on September 27, 2020, 08:16:21 PM
I think I heard someone say "wash it." Don't know what was so dirty, though, except Trump's whole life.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 28, 2020, 12:39:22 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 27, 2020, 08:16:21 PM
I think I heard someone say "wash it." Don't know what was so dirty, though, except Trump's whole life.

And if you were a pubic figure, how would you fare? ;-)
----

"Herschel Walker claims China is helping fund BLM which then donates to Democrats" ... telling truth to evil power

"Colorado Encourages Dead People, Non-Citizens To Vote" ... on-line registration.  This is why voter registration should be in person

"Backlash Builds After Biden Compares Trump To Nazi Propagandist Goebbels" ... yes, the most Jewish non-Jewish President ever is a Nazi?  Biden et al works with Ukrainian oligarchs who are like the Nazi-collaborators from WW II.

"'Cash-For-Ballots' Fraud Uncovered In Ilhan Omar's Minnesota District: Veritas" ... this is why you don't do ballot harvesting.  Send all the incestuous Somalis back to Somalia!

"WHERE'S JOE BIDEN?" ... prep for the first debate, getting injections of adenochrome harvested from aborted babies and Epstein teen girl victims ;-)

"A CONFUSED JOE BIDEN CLAIMS HE ENTERED THE SENATE 180 YEARS AGO" ... yes, he actually is that old ;-(

"The ‘Trump Doctrine’ earns President third Nobel Peace Prize nomination" ... Obama doctrine = invade every ME country that The Shrub didn't invade

"Chicago postal workers threaten to stop delivering mail after multiple employees shot on the job" ... another example of Dem management

"Chinese State Media Outlet Throws Support Behind Black Lives Matter" ... Free Tibet and Xijiang
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on September 29, 2020, 11:21:41 PM
Just watched the first debate.  That was really...uhh...something.

For starters, Trump has a YUGE interruption problem.  Talked over Biden.  Talked over the moderator.  Couldn't behave himself at the table like an adult.  About halfway through, he was able to control himself somewhat again.

Second, I disliked how Biden allowed himself to get roped into talking about irrelevant stuff like Hunter or whatever bizarre lie Trump came up with (like the mysterious unnamed European country with fire-preventing raking - perhaps on the forest-moon of Endor).  You absolutely can't allow Trump to control the conversation, diverting it as it suits him.  Biden pulled his punches a lot and treated Trump as if he were a colleague and not a fraud.  He laughed off Trump and said that Trump has no idea what he's doing, which is fine I guess.  Clown and worst president we've ever had are much more accurate and well-earned labels, but those zingers were few and far between.  Trump also challenged Biden to say that he supports "law and order" - virtue words disguising a disgusting policy of violent protest-busting and secret police going on a campaign of brutality and abduction on citizens in direct defiance of the law.  I would have said as much.  Alas, Biden did not.  Bad tactics.

Biden did noticeably stumble on his words sometimes, though not any worse than the way most people do.  He didn't come across as losing his faculties, though a barrage of childish interruption got him to skip from 2 to 3 on a numbered list, which I'm sure you'll find on some whackjob site or new attack ad.  Biden at least came across as a reasonably intelligent and capable person with very moderate, workable solutions.  So that's good.

The first thing Trump attacked Biden on was say that Biden would "take away private insurance" with a public option.  He later apparently confused Biden's plan with Bernie's green new deal.  Such flattery!  I fervently wish it were so!

Biden came across a lot better on the pandemic and climate change.  I'm in full agreement with him there.  Trump said a lot of BS - essentially blaming China rather than taking any personal responsibility, assuming that Biden would have been worse and then claiming it's a certainty, and essentially giving himself laurels on behalf of his suspiciously unnamed adoring fans in the government.  He even blatantly lied and said that the public is generally supportive of his covid response, which is absolutely not true.  I will give him credit for saying exactly one true thing - these lockdowns have been very hard on people psychologically.  Though obviously, we wouldn't have to endure this hardship for this long if this crisis had been dealt with by capable leadership.  Plague rats and plague rat policy laid America low.  And the North remembers.

Trump's talk about ballots was very disturbing.  His default assumption that this election is illegitimate - even going as far to say that he'd make the Supreme Court "look in" on the election.  Ominous.  Darth Sidious vibes.

I am convinced that this guy is at war with American democracy.  Republican, Democrat, Independent - we all have to set our differences aside and work to preserve the Republic.  Biden probably isn't your first choice, definitely wasn't my first choice, but it's either him or this country burns while Nero golfs.  I know which one I prefer.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on September 30, 2020, 12:14:42 AM
Yep--orange guy was/is a bully.  He makes no bones about it.  He sees himself as the newest tyrant for life--he makes it clear that the election is invalid and he will remain Mr. President until he gives it to his precious (gollum) daughter.  The bully opens his mouth and more lies tumble out.  He has only one set of rules--his and what he deems is his at any given moment.  Biden may not be the best, but he was the only sane person on the stage tonight.  He also told his 'army' to 'stand down' but stand by.  White nationalists rejoice. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on September 30, 2020, 12:52:05 AM
These things aren't actually debates as I understand the term.  Presidential debates are more like Jerry Springer reality TV.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on September 30, 2020, 01:16:45 AM
Quote from: SGOS on September 30, 2020, 12:52:05 AMThese things aren't actually debates as I understand the term.  Presidential debates are more like Jerry Springer reality TV.
It's no Lincoln-Douglas, that's for sure.  I've seen more rational disputes on friggin' Facebook.  A big part of that is of course Trump but also the format has changed to soundbites and glittering generalities and thought-terminating cliches (it is what it is).  That's what gets rewarded, not knowledge or expertise or rational discourse.  Part of how we got into this mess in the first place.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on September 30, 2020, 02:09:16 AM
I think I recall these may have originally been sponsored by the League of Women Voters.  I may have confused this with the local debates in my small home town, but I remember them as being more constructive.  The format has changed to accommodate the deep emotional division between the parties.  This type of "debate" environment gives Trump a tremendous advantage.  If they had any inclination to control actual uninterrupted times when a candidate is given the floor, they should give the moderator a switch that could turn off either mike.  I think that would be fun to watch.  It would be like one of those vaudeville hooks they could drag a lousy comedian off the stage with.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 30, 2020, 03:08:53 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 27, 2020, 08:16:21 PM
I think I heard someone say "wash it." Don't know what was so dirty, though, except Trump's whole life.

All the women who have accused Biden of assault should have been in the studio audience ;-)  Biden is a senile, criminal, traitor, rapist ;-)  I feel more sorry for the 1/2 of voters who will vote for such a sad candidate, than the other half who will vote for the obnoxious NYC guy (same as 2016 with the even more vile Hillary).

Even Jimmy Carter, once chased away in his boat by a ninja rabbit, is a better candidate than Biden.  Carter wasn't guilty of accessory to war crimes like Biden.  Nobody ever accused him of rape, or corruption from foreign officials/commercial interests.  He wasn't behind the assassination attempt on Reagan, that was a Bush operation.

"Media call for upcoming debates to be 'canceled,' urge Biden to back out after first brawl with Trump" ... two old men in a pillow fight.  One or both should have died on that stage (America wants a cage fight with blood).  One can hope that the Pence/Harris contest will be more like the Hamilton/Burr contest ;-)  Harris is the real candidate, Biden would resign a month after the inauguration.

"Trump vs Chris Wallace, while Biden listened to ear piece. It was Theatre by Biden Wallace and the DNC." ... and Biden says how proud he is of his son (and his 3.5 million dollar bribe from the Moscow madam) ... "If Joe Biden ‘remains lucid’ he’ll be declared the winner of first debate" ... He did, and so did Hillary.  Joe should offer the same drugs he is taking, free to all Americans!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on September 30, 2020, 09:03:01 AM
China, Russia, Iran and the virus won that debate. Even the stupidest, mildly racist redneck who is only capable of digesting guttural Fox news soundbites while pickling their liver with natty lites and paradoxically existing on Socialism Security and Federal Health Insurance Medicaid/care is a better human than the murderous Putin, the dystopian CCP or the theocratical Ayatollahs. However they are all threats to the human race because they care nothing of the 'fake' threat...the greenhouse effect. The suffering before it turns around will require a new adjective to describe. If you have young children, they and their children will grow to hate us.

We gotta pull together, somehow.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on September 30, 2020, 09:37:30 AM
The orange monster thrives on chaos.  Why would he change?  He turned the 'debates' into chaos, which is what he does to everything.  So there was no surprise to last night.  The only thing that can halt that approach is the ability of the moderator to hit a kill mike switch.  And that will not happen--orange would not come to such an event.  I think Biden did about as well as he could in mess he ended up in.  I would advise him not to do the other two.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on September 30, 2020, 09:56:38 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 30, 2020, 09:37:30 AM
I think Biden did about as well as he could in mess he ended up in.  I would advise him not to do the other two.
Presidential debates have become more and more pointless over the years.  But refusing to debate, even in a pointless situation is a risky political strategy.  Such wisdom would be seen as cowardliness by many.  And the electorate, having grown up on reality TV, loves this kind of stuff.  Biden did a mediocre job defending against Trump's bullying, which was mostly about all Trump did, but I think (and I often think wrong) that Trump gained more from the debate than Biden.  My guess is that it wasn't a lot, but I'm pretty sure most of his core base was delighted.  It's what his base referrs to as "Telling it like it is."  It's not how accurate this cowboy is; It's how fast he shoots.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on September 30, 2020, 10:04:35 AM
But then there's this, which does not include an opinion from FOX News.

QuoteWho helped his election chances? Most analysts thought Trump did not. An instant CBS poll showed that slightly more voters thought Biden the winner than Trump. Doug Rivers of the polling firm YouGov wrote: “Trump did badly with his base. 15% of his supporters thought it was a tie, compared to only 4% of Biden supporters. Only 49% of Trump supporters thought it made them think better of Trump.”
Rich Lowry, National Review: “The key takeaway is that Trump set out to make Biden crack, and it didn’t happen.”
Nate Cohn, who analyzes polls for The Times: “What a mess. There was no winner, certainly not the United States. And that makes Biden the winner. He’s the frontrunner. It’s Trump who needed the win, and I think most anyone would agree, as Chris Wallace said, that the president was largely responsible for the debate.”
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on September 30, 2020, 10:07:02 AM
Quote from: SGOS on September 30, 2020, 09:56:38 AM
Presidential debates have become more and more pointless over the years.  But refusing to debate, even in a pointless situation is a risky political strategy.  Such wisdom would be seen as cowardliness by many.  And the electorate, having grown up on reality TV, loves this kind of stuff.  Biden did a mediocre job defending against Trump's bullying, which was mostly about all Trump did, but I think (and I often think wrong) that Trump gained more from the debate than Biden.  My guess is that it wasn't a lot, but I'm pretty sure most of his core base was delighted.  It's what his base referrs to as "Telling it like it is."  It's not how accurate this cowboy is; It's how fast he shoots.
I am clueless as to who will gain additional votes, if any. The core voters are irrelevant. Who are the "sway-ables" at this point anyways?   
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 30, 2020, 10:07:28 AM
Quote from: Cassia on September 30, 2020, 09:03:01 AM
China, Russia, Iran and the virus won that debate. Even the stupidest, mildly racist redneck who is only capable of digesting guttural Fox news soundbites while pickling their liver with natty lites and paradoxically existing on Socialism Security and Federal Health Insurance Medicaid/care is a better human than the murderous Putin, the dystopian CCP or the theocratical Ayatollahs. However they are all threats to the human race because they care nothing of the 'fake' threat...the greenhouse effect. The suffering before it turns around will require a new adjective to describe. If you have young children, they and their children will grow to hate us.

We gotta pull together, somehow.

Good, I support all people, including Russia and China and Iran.  The US is a cancer on the world (because of the liberals).  We can stop global warming by killing all the Western consumers ... do your part today!  Will liberals (same as Puritans of yore, and Abolitionists) declare nuclear first strike on Russia, because Putin doesn't like gays?  Will they give China a pass, because they need the fentanyl?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 30, 2020, 10:10:21 AM
Quote from: Cassia on September 30, 2020, 10:07:02 AM
I am clueless as to who will gain additional votes, if any. The core voters are irrelevant. Who are the "sway-ables" at this point anyways? 

All the dead Democrats need to be swayed ;-)  Nothing has been real, before or after 1960.  The US is a lie, always has been treasonous and criminal.  Already most Republicans don't consider the Democrats to be a legal political party, or even Americans.  Independents (as I was until last year) consider both parties to be illegitimate criminal gangs.  R & D agreed, only when the pie of stolen goods is growing fast enough they can put off fighting for their piece.  The pie hasn't been growing since about 1973 (see difference between average worker and GDP starting then).  So the knives have come out, because there is no honor among thieves (ask Native Americans).

"The sad truth is that it doesn’t matter who wins the White House, because they all work for the same boss: Corporate America..." ... actually multinational corporations who are bending us to a Rollerball world.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on September 30, 2020, 11:21:19 AM
Quote from: SGOS on September 30, 2020, 10:04:35 AM
But then there's this, which does not include an opinion from FOX News.
I am torn.  I suppose Biden will do the other two because he said he would.  I hate bullies and that is all the orange monster is.  I would love Biden to address the orange monster as 'Donald' and say something like this time and again--There you go Donald, lying again!  And I hope Biden drills down on the orange monster telling the right wing white nationalists to 'stand down but stand by'.  Orange is sending out signal after signal that there will be bloodshed if he loses the election--a civil war would delight orange.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on September 30, 2020, 12:56:41 PM
Who won?  Putin won. America lost, but at least it was entertaining, which is about the best we can expect from a con artist like Trump.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on September 30, 2020, 01:18:43 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/350jFqQ.jpg)

QuoteJust minutes after his answer at the debate, members of the Proud Boys and similar groups celebrated his response, flooding their social media channels with comments like “Standing by, sir.”

“The comments by the president were a huge win for the Proud Boys, which we should remember is a group who views its mission as literally ‘fighting Antifa’ as part of its ’defense of the West,’” Megan Squire, a computer science professor at Elon University who tracks online extremism, tells TIME. “They’ve now been blessed by the President on the world stage and the data shows they are extremely excited by this.”

Squire adds that her software monitors about a dozen Proud Boys channels on Telegram, and saw them become “very energized” after Trump’s comments at the debate, posting a flood of messages and new memes. “They’re even debating whether to go ‘back to Portland,’ and how to proceed,” she says.
https://time.com/5894497/donald-trump-white-supremacists-debate/

Trump represents them, not you.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on September 30, 2020, 01:33:04 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 30, 2020, 12:56:41 PM
Who won?  Putin won. America lost, but at least it was entertaining.
I watched half of it and turned it off in disgust.  I hoped Biden would do better, but I don't know who could have done better.  The whole thing was disgusting.  But Biden's comment that resonated with me the most was during the Coronavirus segment, when Trump said he didn't want to make a big deal about the virus because he didn't want people to panic.  I had been thinking about this for a long time.  Biden said, "People understand the danger.  They are not panicking.  YOU PANICKED!"  I wish he would have expanded on this.

Most of my peers are pretty diligent about wearing masks and distancing, and outside of Walmart, and Rural King, business have generally been fairly mindful also. But never have I met anyone of the group who was in a panic.  I repeat.  Never!  Not one person!   They just understand the consequences, and do what needs to be done.  This is the rational response.  If you have cancer, you go to the doctor and do what you need to do, knowing that treatment may or may not be successful.  You know the consequences.  You take appropriate steps, and do what you can do, unless you are a fool and are to scared to deal with it.

I think Trump did panic, not because he was certain to get sick, but because he didn't know what the fuck to do about the virus.  The issue for him was the election, and he knew it was dangerous for him, because he had no idea what to do.  Like a deer in the headlights, he froze, denied experts, defunded WHO, and blamed China.

"Didn't want people to panic?"  Yeah right.  Give me a break.  He doesn't care about people panicking or rioting or fighting or people in distress.  He loves that shit, but he hates the idea of not getting to control everything.  The virus won that round.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on September 30, 2020, 01:53:45 PM
The not-panic stance rings hollow considering how zealously he's fearmongered about "socialists" and Muslims and Mexicans and BLM and even Greta Thunberg, of all people.  This is the kind of guy who claims that vaccines cause autism (be scared!  be very scared!) but blocked the life-saving mask delivery because he thinks it'd freak people out.  What a crock.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on September 30, 2020, 04:23:23 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on September 30, 2020, 01:53:45 PM
The not-panic stance rings hollow considering how zealously he's fearmongered about "socialists" and Muslims and Mexicans and BLM and even Greta Thunberg, of all people.  This is the kind of guy who claims that vaccines cause autism (be scared!  be very scared!) but blocked the life-saving mask delivery because he thinks it'd freak people out.  What a crock.
There are super-computers aimed at our brains exploiting every weakness. We are constantly fed recommendations from special interest operated AI. All based on our personal internet history of record. A positive reinforcement feedback system that just cycles out of control for those who will easily believe. Hard times for many who are drinking from a fire hose of misinformation.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 30, 2020, 04:34:13 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 30, 2020, 12:56:41 PM
Who won?  Putin won. America lost, but at least it was entertaining, which is about the best we can expect from a con artist like Trump.

Putin is a god, all bow to the divine Putin.  (Emperor Shi is jealous of your false idolatry ... Emperor Shi is a god).  I would definitely vote for Putin, rather than any of the traitors running now.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 30, 2020, 04:35:45 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 30, 2020, 11:21:19 AM
I am torn.  I suppose Biden will do the other two because he said he would.  I hate bullies and that is all the orange monster is.  I would love Biden to address the orange monster as 'Donald' and say something like this time and again--There you go Donald, lying again!  And I hope Biden drills down on the orange monster telling the right wing white nationalists to 'stand down but stand by'.  Orange is sending out signal after signal that there will be bloodshed if he loses the election--a civil war would delight orange.

That requires Biden to imitate Reagan "Where's the beef?" .. could the Bernie-bots explode if Biden does that?

I am hoping for a civil war (which started in 2016) anyway.  We need a culling of the deplorables ;-)

"Trump was having to fight the TAG TEAM of the so-called MODERATOR AND "Dunning-Kruger Joe" AT THE SAME TIME!" ... Tucker Carlson would be better than Chris Wallace, but Joe Rogan would be best ;-))

"Calls For Joe Rogan To Moderate Next Debate Intensify After Chris Wallace's Disastrous Performance" .. nah, tie Biden's hand to Trump's hand with a scarf, put a knife in the opposite hands of each contestant, and let the knife fight begin!  That would be Dominican NYC style?  A real "West Side Story".

"Nearly 18,000 Ballots Rejected In Massachusetts Primary Election" ... oops!

"Kyle Rittenhouse To Sue Biden Over 'White Supremacists' Campaign Ad" ... have lawyer and Kyle take every penny of the Biden family
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 30, 2020, 04:38:39 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on September 30, 2020, 01:53:45 PM
The not-panic stance rings hollow considering how zealously he's fearmongered about "socialists" and Muslims and Mexicans and BLM and even Greta Thunberg, of all people.  This is the kind of guy who claims that vaccines cause autism (be scared!  be very scared!) but blocked the life-saving mask delivery because he thinks it'd freak people out.  What a crock.

Non-panic would be to keep the Chinese travelers out of the US, as of Jan 1, not Jan 31 ... and not tell the deplorable why you are doing it.  You folks are still singing the CCP anthem?

We had plenty of N95 masks before Swine Flu, and the Obama admin depleted that for the Swine Flu but never replenished.  Of course the Trump admin should have noticed that, and replenished.  So I blame both incompetents.  I don't recall Biden suggesting 3 years ago to replenish the N95 masks, do you?  So he is just another incompetent.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on September 30, 2020, 04:39:25 PM
Quote from: Cassia on September 30, 2020, 04:23:23 PM
There are super-computers aimed at our brains exploiting every weakness. We are constantly fed recommendations from special interest operated AI. All based on our personal internet history of record. A positive reinforcement feedback system that just cycles out of control for those who will easily believe. Hard times for many who are drinking from a fire hose of misinformation.

"You can't handle the truth!"

Everything since 1775 is BS.  America, get over your drunk diseased selves.
---

"Philadelphia voting machine controls stolen from city warehouse: reports" ... doesn't matter who votes for who, it matters who counts the votes - Stalin

"Colorado tests new program to fix ballot issues by phone" .. your old phone will vote many times

"House Democrats’ stimulus bill includes stimulus checks for illegal immigrants, protections from deportations" ... Bloomberg should offer them a new car if they each vote 10 times

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 01, 2020, 08:12:16 AM
Post debate polling shows that a majority of voters still see Biden in the lead.  I suspect this is just the inertia of pubic sentiment from previous polls.   I had thought this may have been a turning point for Trump, given that he successfully bullied Biden and Chris Wallace throughout the debate.  I'm also hearing most voters polled did not approve of Trump's tactics or the debate itself, which happily surprised me even more than people believing Biden "won" the debate.  Even the debate commission, or whatever the thing is called, promised changes in format, but stopped short of including mike cut off switches for the moderator.  Personally, I would make dead mikes automatic during the opponents 2 minute times, even if Trump wasn't part of it.  At any rate these shameful media circuses should end.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 01, 2020, 08:13:54 AM
Does anyone sense a deterioration in Trump's mental state during the last two years?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 01, 2020, 08:22:49 AM
Quote from: SGOS on October 01, 2020, 08:12:16 AM
Post debate polling shows that a majority of voters still see Biden in the lead.  I suspect this is just the inertia of pubic sentiment from previous polls.   I had thought this may have been a turning point for Trump, given that he successfully bullied Biden and Chris Wallace throughout the debate.  I'm also hearing most voters polled did not approve of Trump's tactics or the debate itself, which happily surprised me even more than people believing Biden "won" the debate.  Even the debate commission, or whatever the thing is called, promised changes in format, but stopped short of including mike cut off switches for the moderator.  Personally, I would make dead mikes automatic during the opponents 2 minute times, even if Trump wasn't part of it.  At any rate these shameful media circuses should end.

Yes, free Assange, shoot all the MSM zombie reporters.  Assange would do an even better moderator job than Joe Rogan

Boisterous truth teller vs drugged senile liar (wired too)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 01, 2020, 08:23:59 AM
Quote from: SGOS on October 01, 2020, 08:13:54 AM
Does anyone sense a deterioration in Trump's mental state during the last two years?

He dies his hair.  Every President that doesn't use Grecian Formula .. ends up aging 20 years in 4 years.  The job sucks.  And anyone wanting the job is proof they are morons.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 01, 2020, 09:55:38 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 30, 2020, 11:21:19 AM
I am torn.  I suppose Biden will do the other two because he said he would.  I hate bullies and that is all the orange monster is.  I would love Biden to address the orange monster as 'Donald' and say something like this time and again--There you go Donald, lying again!  And I hope Biden drills down on the orange monster telling the right wing white nationalists to 'stand down but stand by'.  Orange is sending out signal after signal that there will be bloodshed if he loses the election--a civil war would delight orange.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 01, 2020, 10:00:20 AM
There should be bloodshed.  It is the way (Mandalorian and US).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 01, 2020, 10:02:58 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 30, 2020, 11:21:19 AM
I am torn.  I suppose Biden will do the other two because he said he would.  I hate bullies and that is all the orange monster is.  I would love Biden to address the orange monster as 'Donald' and say something like this time and again--There you go Donald, lying again!  And I hope Biden drills down on the orange monster telling the right wing white nationalists to 'stand down but stand by'.  Orange is sending out signal after signal that there will be bloodshed if he loses the election--a civil war would delight orange.
I don't often quote myself, but I have changed my mind.  Biden needs to do the last two 'debates'.  He needs to drill down, and drill down hard, on the orange monster's support for white nationalist organizations.  And that he intends to use violence to control or negate the election process.  Don't stop until orange makes his view very, very clear.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 01, 2020, 10:05:06 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 01, 2020, 10:02:58 AM
I don't often quote myself, but I have changed my mind.  Biden needs to do the last two 'debates'.  He needs to drill down, and drill down hard, on the orange monster's support for white nationalist organizations.  And that he intends to use violence to control or negate the election process.  Don't stop until orange makes his view very, very clear.

Just Nazis under your bed, or is it Trump?  You love BLM don't you?  Gotten a fake Afro yet?

"Random Journalist Enters Unguarded Philly Warehouse Where 'Memory Stick' Voting Machines Stored" ... organized criminal gang = Dems
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 02, 2020, 11:58:47 AM
"TRUMP AND MELANIA TEST POSITIVE FOR COVID19, LEFTISTS GO NUTS PUSHING INSANE THEORIES HE'S FAKING .." ... you can't make valid predictions.  Everyone supposed that Biden would get Covid even before the first debate.  Trump should now decline the remaining debates, unless he can go and cough on Biden ;-).  The real debate is Pence vs Harris.  Watch that one!  It is Pence and Harris who are running for President, not the two old men.  Of course both Pence and Harris are CIA.

"THE BIZARRE ALTERNATE REALITY OF BIDEN VOTERS"  = today "The bizarre alternate reality of McGovern voters" = yesterday
---

"New York Times slammed for suggesting Trump might not remain on ballot after coronavirus diagnosis" ... NYT is a shithole since they employed Karl Marx, burn it down?

"Biden weighs in after Trump heads to the hospital: ‘This cannot be a partisan moment’" ... we must all unite as Marxists in black face.

"Biden launches ads touting his faith after cardinal says he's 'not a Catholic in good standing'" .. over abortion.  But Marxist Pope will give him special absolution for a large contribution to the Vatican bank
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on October 02, 2020, 09:40:36 PM
I was mightily unimpressed by the first debate.  I think both of them performed up to their supporters' expectations but no better.  They both did just well enough so that their supporters can say their candidate won and the other lost.  I don't think anyone gained ground or lost ground, it mostly convinced the already convinced.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 02, 2020, 09:42:07 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on October 02, 2020, 09:40:36 PM
I was mightily unimpressed by the first debate.  I think both of them performed up to their supporters' expectations but no better.  They both did just well enough so that their supporters can say their candidate won and the other lost.  I don't think anyone gained ground or lost ground, it mostly convinced the already convinced.

I could see the wires (for the two marionettes) that led back to their CIA handlers.  Chris Wallace's hand was up Biden's ass, prostate exam?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 03, 2020, 08:03:22 PM
You're so full of shit you need someone's hand up your butt to scoop it out. I'm not volunteering...



;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 03, 2020, 08:07:50 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 03, 2020, 08:03:22 PM
You're so full of shit you need someone's hand up your butt to scoop it out. I'm not volunteering...



;-)

Yes, you would like to be a prostate doctor then ... ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 07, 2020, 08:14:22 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 07, 2020, 06:59:16 PM
There's going to be a Vice-Presidential debate tonight.

And it's going to have a plexiglass barrier between the candidates because the current VP is head of the coronavirus task force and might have covid through his boss, who recently hosted a largely maskless super-spreader event and now this virus is running rampant through his administration, which apparently wasn't competent enough to take even basic anti-virus precautions like masks and social distancing.  (some, I assume, wash their hands)

4 more years of this okay with everyone?

Don't care for politicians in general.  But at least now, the real candidates are debating, Harris in particular is the real D-Pres-Candidate.

"CA Officials Topple Giant 'TRUMP' Sign Overlooking 405 Freeway, Citing 'Life And Safety Hazard'" ... Cali, state of beach babes, MJ and LARPing

"Instagram Bans QAnon Accounts, But Refuses To Remove ISIS Accounts Celebrating 9/11" .. ISIS supported by Dems

"MAIL IN VOTING BACKFIRES, DEMOCRATS JUMP SHIP IN PANIC AS MAIL VOTES GET REJECTED IN LARGE NUMBERS" .. could have been done legitimately and efficiently with sufficient preparation, copying successful states, and not being a douche bag
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: fencerider on October 07, 2020, 08:41:48 PM
Quote from: Baruch on October 07, 2020, 08:14:22 PM
"MAIL IN VOTING BACKFIRES, DEMOCRATS JUMP SHIP IN PANIC AS MAIL VOTES GET REJECTED IN LARGE NUMBERS" .. could have been done legitimately and efficiently with sufficient preparation, copying successful states, and not being a douche bag
CA already had a vote-by-mail system in place. But this year they decided it wasn't good enough and they updated it. Maybe it works and maybe it doesn't
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: fencerider on October 07, 2020, 09:01:10 PM
The three things that stand out the most about the debate between the Orange Jester and the Geezer are:

Trump says "Well Boys stand back and stand by" like he is some kind of KKK Grand Master.

Trump denying global warming talking about CDF; as if he does a better job of running the WH; as if raking the ground would solve the problem. Ohhhkayyy- the Artic Circle is supposed to be frozen. It's supposed to be colder than the inside of your freezer, but there are massive fires in the Artic that make the Bobcat Fire look like somebody taking a smoke break.

Trump scores a big point against Biden. Trump accused Biden of leaving court seats empty. Bingo. The only reason that the temporary President of the Senate Mitch McC could put people in the courts is because the real President of the Senate Joe Biden was AWOL. absolutely nothing McC could do that was not legally the responsibility of Biden. The democrats shouldn't have even allowed Biden to be a candidate. That fn traitor Biden gave away 1/8 of the federal court seats to the Republicans.

Both Trump and Biden should be in prison for diff reasons.
Biden: dereliction of duty, felony violation of the 6th ammendment (and McC as well)
Trump: too many for my currently lazy fingers
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 07, 2020, 09:28:48 PM
Pence has been saying that he "trusts the American people" like he gets paid for every time he says it.  Didn't trust them enough to be honest with them about the nature of this disease or to fight King Orange on his "just the flu bro" policy and "open 'er up and let 'em die" policy.

Pence has said they're rushing to get a vaccine out which certainly sounds good, but it's strange that they weren't gung ho about getting people to wear masks in the interim, even going as so far as blocking mask delivery to vulnerable Americans.  Do they want to protect people or not?  Why don't the words and actions match up?

And now he's deflecting to swine flu.  When you just crapped the bed, it doesn't make you look any better by saying the other guy wet his bed years ago.  He said the stockpiles were empty (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/08/donald-trump/trump-said-obama-admin-left-him-bare-stockpile-wro/), which is patently a lie.

Now that I know for a fact that there's a liar in the room, what chance does he have to persuade me or any other sensible American?

And if Pence was so focused on keeping America well prepared for a pandemic did he object when Trump fired the pandemic team?  Pence's narrative is not adding up.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 07, 2020, 09:44:16 PM
And now Pence is Wormtonguing it up, claiming that Biden is going to raise taxes (not unless you're making >$400,000/year), ban fracking (I wish), supports the Green New Deal (this is true only in my wildest dreams), and abolish fossil fuels (not true (https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/misleading-ad-targets-biden-on-fossil-fuels-fracking/), but that's a good idea!)

And the final nail in the coffin was Pence saying that Trump is some great conservationist after crippling the EPA and rolling back a ton of environmental regulations (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/climate/trump-environment-rollbacks.html) (including making drastic changes to a key environmental legislation (https://www.npr.org/2020/07/15/891190100/trump-overhauls-key-environmental-law-to-speed-up-pipelines-and-other-projects))

So now I know for a fact that Pence is a complete liar.  No one trust a liar.  No one believes a liar.  And so help me, this liar just lost the election with his lies.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 07, 2020, 10:05:57 PM
I will say this though: both candidates here seem like reasonably-intelligent politicians (lying notwithstanding).  They can even have a real debate by (sometimes reluctantly) giving up the floor and letting someone else talk.

In fact, I'd go so far to say that if all I knew about these candidates was these two debates, I'd assume that Pence was the Presidential candidate and Trump the VP pick.  Same with Harris and Biden.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 07, 2020, 10:56:53 PM
Quote from: fencerider on October 07, 2020, 08:41:48 PM
CA already had a vote-by-mail system in place. But this year they decided it wasn't good enough and they updated it. Maybe it works and maybe it doesn't

Always fix it if it ain't broke, especially if my cousin is the sole bidder ;-))

Quick summary ...

Pence is the opposite of Trump, and a threat for 2024
Harris is a CCP stooge same as the Biden family, not a threat for 2020 or 2024

2016 ... Repubs had nobody better than Donald, a known Democrat.  Dems had nobody better than Hillary, a known Republican.
2020 ... Donald is incumbent, so no surprise there.  Dems had nobody better than Joe, a doddering old fool and crook

Analysis .. DNC and RNC are a liability.  Fire all of them.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 08, 2020, 02:07:38 AM
And before I forget, Pence said that Biden would ban fossil fuels (*clutches pearls*) shortly before praising Trump as some great conservationist.  Did he forget that fossil fuels are a pollutant?

It just seems bizarre to scowl at environmentalism in your opponent and then praise it in your ally.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on October 08, 2020, 09:50:11 AM
Flies always find the bullshit Christians, LOL. This guy creeps me out. Thanks to Seth Andrews.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjzqIV-WkAE_xrq?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ejzpl6iWoAAjV1P?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 08, 2020, 09:54:28 AM
Quote“I’m not going to waste my time on a virtual debate, that’s not what debating is all about,” Mr. Trump told the anchor Maria Bartiromo during a Fox Business television interview. “You sit behind a computer and do a debate â€" it’s ridiculous.”
He only wants to debate if he can be within coughing distance of Biden, and those plexiglass shields don't exactly inspire confidence.  2020 will be remembered for Trump going off the rails and the fly on Pence's head.  I didn't watch the debate last night. The campaign is getting silly.  It's hard to take it seriously.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on October 08, 2020, 10:20:16 AM
Quote from: SGOS on October 08, 2020, 09:54:28 AM
He only wants to debate if he can be within coughing distance of Biden, and those plexiglass shields don't exactly inspire confidence.
Translation: Trump is a fucking coward, which almost all bullies are.

Also, he desperately needs to not debate because of the damage he does himself.  He's trying to get out of the debates any way he can.  He's apparently decided looking like a coward and a petulant child is less damaging than trying to explain himself in public.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 08, 2020, 11:46:46 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 08, 2020, 02:07:38 AM
And before I forget, Pence said that Biden would ban fossil fuels (*clutches pearls*) shortly before praising Trump as some great conservationist.  Did he forget that fossil fuels are a pollutant?

It just seems bizarre to scowl at environmentalism in your opponent and then praise it in your ally.

Part of Agenda 21 from the UN (controlled by China).  Western countries to be reduced to nature preserves for Chinese tourism.  Only electric buggies allowed.  Of course this environmental care won't apply to China.  Guided safari hunting of feral Americans at additional charge.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 08, 2020, 11:49:09 AM
Quote from: trdsf on October 08, 2020, 10:20:16 AM
Translation: Trump is a fucking coward, which almost all bullies are.

Also, he desperately needs to not debate because of the damage he does himself.  He's trying to get out of the debates any way he can.  He's apparently decided looking like a coward and a petulant child is less damaging than trying to explain himself in public.

It was a gambit, to make Biden look weak compared to the God Emperor.  And he does look weak, for many reasons.  If Trump wasn't a coward he would strangle Biden on stage, as a mercy killing?

“Senator, your party has spent the last three and a half years trying to overturn the results of the last election...” - VP Pence to VP Candidate Harris
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on October 08, 2020, 12:50:04 PM
Well.  Remember the Oval Orifice's "LIBERATE MICHIGAN! (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1251169217531056130)" tweet?

Words have consequences, you racist, sexist fuck (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/six-men-charged-alleged-plot-kidnap-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer-n1242622).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 08, 2020, 12:56:47 PM
"Pence = Race Bannon from Jonny Quest" .. especially the B&W classic version I watched in 1961.  Back then racism was OK.

"Kamala Harris is the black slave owner the Democrats want." ... 50% Indian, 47% White slave owners, 3% Jamaican Black slave.  A ringer, like Obama.

"Pelosi questions Trump's health, says ‘we’re going to be talking about the 25th Amendment’" ... because Trump has Covid.  How about impeach Pelosi?

"Mysterious sound distracts Harris-Biden debate viewers" ... candidates should take Gas-X and potty before the debate ;-)

"Lakers' LeBron James takes aim at Mike Pence using viral fly debate moment" .. not successful if fly was star of the debate

"Undecided voters found Harris 'abrasive, condescending' in vice presidential debate" .. least popular Dem primary candidate chosen as VP candidate, a winner?

"June 2019 - Kamala Harris, "Joe Biden is a racist that supports segregationist.  He (Joe) is not fit to be President."
August 2020 - Kamala Harris, "Joe Biden is a good man that will do great things for minorities and all Americans!"" ... DNC is a joke

"When the mail in votes are counted, 110% of the people will have voted for Biden." .. Dems in general, Biden in particular flunked maths
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 08, 2020, 02:53:12 PM
Latest polls:

59% say Harris performed better than Pence in last night's debate (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/520162-poll-majority-believe-harris-won-vp-debate-against-pence)

Biden has about a 10-point lead over Trump (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/08/bidens-polling-lead-over-trump-grows-since-debate-covid-19-diagnosis.html) (about double what clinton had at this point (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/trump-vs-biden-national-polls-2020-vs-2016/))

538 gives Biden a 85% chance of winning (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/), up from 71% in August (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/511666-fivethirtyeight-model-biden-has-71-percent-chance-of-winning-the-white)

(https://preview.redd.it/i39aov8gjvr51.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=b4ebdf9ffba38c475433fbc4aa29934d32580c38)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 08, 2020, 07:29:19 PM
“If Democrats are willing to cause such destruction in the pursuit of POWER, just imagine what they’ll do if they obtain it” … President Trump

Dems are all on illegal drugs since 1965.

"PORTLAND DA DROPS HUNDREDS OF ANTIFA RIOT CHARGES WHILE NYC TARGETS JEWISH PEOPLE" ... impeach every Dem office holder

"TRUMP SLAMS OBAMA AND BIDEN, DEMANDS THEY BE INDICTED IMMEDIATELY BY BILL BARR" .. a CIA psyop?  A President doesn't have this power.  The drug cocktail the doctors gave him, it is said, gives one delusions.  CIA planned this?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on October 08, 2020, 07:44:13 PM
It's times like these that I'm glad my mind has Baruch on ignore.

Didn't read what he wrote and don't care, because I can guarantee it's stupid, whatever it is.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on October 08, 2020, 08:04:35 PM
The VP debate was a lot better than the Presidential debate.  Of course it had its flaws, which is why everyone agrees with "my candidate won while the other candidate dodged the questions."
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 08, 2020, 08:37:31 PM
I think they both gave their respective bases what they wanted. I was a bit surprised the Pence did so much bullying, but only a bit. I doubt any votes were changed as a result. Now we just have to wait and see if there is another presidential debate.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 09, 2020, 10:49:21 AM
"Yuan Surges Most In 15 Years On Expectations Of Pro-China Pivot By "President Biden"" .. free Fentanyl for everyone, weee.  No foreign interference at all ;-)

"Durham Report Won't Be Ready By Election: AG Barr" .. probably better, because of optics.  Supposedly neither Biden nor Obama were under investigation ;-)

"CA-Based Media Outlet Posts False Story About Pence Testing Positive For COVID-19" .. anyone with Covid is disqualified for political office, Nancy Pelosi becomes first woman President ... wee!

"DEMOCRATS ANNOUNCE PLAN TO REMOVE PRESIDENT BUT NOT TRUMP, PELOSI SETTING STAGE TO REMOVE BIDEN" .. if Trump wins, he gets removed medically.  If Biden wins, he gets removed medically.  This is a way for a non-Black woman who lost all Dem primaries, to become President.  Bwahaha.

"Biden is a trojan candidate." ... Believe Her

"They are rigging election with Soviet efficiency." ... people old enough to remember the Soviet Union
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 09, 2020, 09:10:35 PM
I hear they're going to have another boat parade for Trump, but I have a sinking feeling about that idea...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on October 10, 2020, 08:49:02 AM
I had a scary thought. I need to forget about the news for now.

One probable scenario for the upcoming election IMHO: many Trump voters will physically go to the polls and it may initially seem more like a Trump victory on election night. Then as the mail-in votes slowly get counted it will shift to Biden over the next few days. If Trump cries foul and calls out (implied or directly) the tiny minority of armed goons, there may be violence. How, where and when, I do not know.

These fake 'militia' seem inept, mostly gun guys who rub on their AR15s late at night. However there is a slight chance they trigger a reaction from some moderates if these 'militias' manage to get themselves killed.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 10, 2020, 08:51:46 AM
Thinking about what I'm reading lately, and all the information I've gotten from the past is that Republicans get money from big donors and Democrats get money from the riff raff.  Of course the riff raff (god love us) doesn't have much money.  I've heard about several Trump donors, or maybe it's just a few donors several times that fork over 100 million at a time.

But during the last couple of weeks, Biden is spending 40 mil a week to Trumps 20 mil.  If the common knowledge (not necessarily accurate knowledge) holds, then it seems like Trump should be outspending Biden by millions each week, especially when he's running behind, but he's not spending, almost like he's blown his nest egg.  Is he holding back until the last couple of weeks?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 10, 2020, 09:32:13 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 09, 2020, 09:10:35 PM
I hear they're going to have another boat parade for Trump, but I have a sinking feeling about that idea...

Some folks last time forgot to put the plug in the bottom of their boat ;-(
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 10, 2020, 09:33:30 AM
Quote from: Cassia on October 10, 2020, 08:49:02 AM
I had a scary thought. I need to forget about the news for now.

One probable scenario for the upcoming election IMHO: many Trump voters will physically go to the polls and it may initially seem more like a Trump victory on election night. Then as the mail-in votes slowly get counted it will shift to Biden over the next few days. If Trump cries foul and calls out (implied or directly) the tiny minority of armed goons, there may be violence. How, where and when, I do not know.

These fake 'militia' seem inept, mostly gun guys who rub on their AR15s late at night. However there is a slight chance they trigger a reaction from some moderates if these 'militias' manage to get themselves killed.


You have figured out the Illuminati plan ... better not only avoid politics, but fly to your private Caribbean Fantasy Island like the other millionaires ;-)

"RICH PEOPLE PANIC AND START BUYING UP PRIVATE ISLANDS EN MASSE, WHAT DO THEY KNOW THAT WE DON'T??" .. millionaires establishing their own CHAZ.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 10, 2020, 09:34:49 AM
Quote from: SGOS on October 10, 2020, 08:51:46 AM
Thinking about what I'm reading lately, and all the information I've gotten from the past is that Republicans get money from big donors and Democrats get money from the riff raff.  Of course the riff raff (god love us) doesn't have much money.  I've heard about several Trump donors, or maybe it's just a few donors several times that fork over 100 million at a time.

But during the last couple of weeks, Biden is spending 40 mil a week to Trumps 20 mil.  If the common knowledge (not necessarily accurate knowledge) holds, then it seems like Trump should be outspending Biden by millions each week, especially when he's running behind, but he's not spending, almost like he's blown his nest egg.  Is he holding back until the last couple of weeks?

Corporations being blackmailed by BLM.  When we win, if you don't donate now, you will be the first against the wall!  Also multinational corporations support the CCP.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 10, 2020, 09:38:38 AM
Quote from: Cassia on October 10, 2020, 08:49:02 AM
I had a scary thought. I need to forget about the news for now.

One probable scenario for the upcoming election IMHO: many Trump voters will physically go to the polls and it may initially seem more like a Trump victory on election night. Then as the mail-in votes slowly get counted it will shift to Biden over the next few days.
I don't think this happens that often.  I can't remember in my lifetime, when the winner of the election wasn't declared that evening.  They always mention that there are still mail in ballots to be counted, but they never seemed to matter.  Now they talk about mail in ballot's like they actually make a difference.  Maybe mail in voting has only been kind of a norm in recent years.  It's been only recently that I'm starting to hear friends say they've been voting by mail for years, but since they never said that before, I'm thinking, "Really?"

Quote from: Cassia on October 10, 2020, 08:49:02 AM
If Trump cries foul and calls out (implied or directly) the tiny minority of armed goons, there may be violence. How, where and when, I do not know.


The first time I heard about this was a couple of years ago when some crazy preacher said that if Trump loses the next election, there will be rioting and shootout's in the street.  Now, it's been like a rallying cry, but I think it's just hype.  It's wishful thinking, and no doubt some right wingers would love it, but I don't think it's seriously caught on yet.  Given time, hate speech can turn into actions, but I don't think we are there yet.

Quote from: Cassia on October 10, 2020, 08:49:02 AM
These fake 'militia' seem inept, mostly gun guys who rub on their AR15s late at night. However there is a slight chance they trigger a reaction from some moderates if these 'militias' manage to get themselves killed.
They are like little kids playing "Army."  They ARE inept, but bold, and they can do a lot of damage.  Mostly their effect will be to intimidate.  They are terrorists.  Their purpose is to intimidate and wear down opposition, and attract other nut jobs to the cause.  I'm thinking starting a bloody revolution is a long shot.  They don't really have a plan for what comes after a revolution, but few revolutions do.  It just leads to anarchy, followed by a power vacuum, and then some self seeking dictator that surfaces.  Mostly these guys will get run over and squashed when the tanks show up.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 10, 2020, 11:42:22 AM
"Donald Trump undertakes medical evaluation in post-COVID-19 interview" .. he is now Covid drug free.  I want every Dem officeholder to be checked daily in public to see if they are drug free ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 10, 2020, 01:12:56 PM
"Kamala Harris was so disrespectful, so unlikeable. Unlike our guys."

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=631667860849705
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 10, 2020, 01:22:23 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 10, 2020, 01:12:56 PM
"Kamala Harris was so disrespectful, so unlikeable. Unlike our guys."
Republicans are just bigger versions of grade school kids.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 10, 2020, 01:39:37 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 10, 2020, 01:12:56 PM
"Kamala Harris was so disrespectful, so unlikeable. Unlike our guys."

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=631667860849705

Non-Black super fly?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 10, 2020, 01:40:17 PM
Quote from: SGOS on October 10, 2020, 01:22:23 PM
Republicans are just bigger versions of grade school kids.

Dems are just bigger versions of infants (Biden is Ukrainian sugar daddy)

"SECOND TRUMP BIDEN DEBATE CANCELED, ITS ALL RIGGED AS 3RD MODERATOR TRIES HIDING HER PAST TWEETS" ... Comet Pizza is her favorite place to lunch
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 10, 2020, 03:19:21 PM
Quote from: SGOS on October 10, 2020, 08:51:46 AM
Thinking about what I'm reading lately, and all the information I've gotten from the past is that Republicans get money from big donors and Democrats get money from the riff raff.  Of course the riff raff (god love us) doesn't have much money.  I've heard about several Trump donors, or maybe it's just a few donors several times that fork over 100 million at a time.
That's something that seems true, but it doesn't appear to be the case.

https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race/joe-biden/candidate?id=N00001669

https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race/donald-trump/candidate?id=N00023864

https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race/bernie-sanders/candidate?id=N00000528 (famous for his small-donations campaign, posted for contrast - note the relative lack of "outside groups")

Of course, this leaves out dark money, which is by definition unreported political spending, so your guess is as good as mine.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 10, 2020, 03:27:34 PM
And speaking of fundraising (https://www.npr.org/2020/09/21/915301313/biden-enters-campaigns-final-stretch-with-cash-advantage-over-trump):

At the beginning September (bear in mind this isn't super recent news, October's numbers haven't been officially posted yet afaik), the Biden campaign reported $466 million cash on hand compared to Trump's $325 million.

QuoteHis [Trump's] campaign and the Republican National Committee spent almost all the money they took in during August, though they were still outspent by Biden's campaign and the Democratic National Committee, according to the filings.

QuoteOn television advertisements, Biden outspent Trump nearly 4 to 1 in August, according to the tracking firm Ad Analytics.

Trump's campaign bought no ads on local TV in Pennsylvania, Michigan and New Hampshire, and was outspent by Biden significantly in Florida, North Carolina and Wisconsin.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 10, 2020, 03:32:19 PM
There isn't really much of a Trump campaign, I think, because the GOP is expecting to successfully steal the election, so why spend all that money now. They're only going through the motions so it won't t be so obvious that they're going to reinstall Trump no matter what it takes.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 10, 2020, 04:32:23 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 10, 2020, 03:32:19 PM
There isn't really much of a Trump campaign, I think, because the GOP is expecting to successfully steal the election, so why spend all that money now. They're only going through the motions so it won't t be so obvious that they're going to reinstall Trump no matter what it takes.

All Dems are poor pacifists like Gandhi?  Goldman-Sachs wins every election.

"Now Biden Says Filling Ginsburg Seat 'Not Constitutional' - And Americans Don't 'Deserve To Know' If He'll Pack Court" ... all hail Emperor Biden!  So what kind of drugs are they giving him??
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on October 10, 2020, 06:38:20 PM
Fox News is calling for Biden to put country ahead of party.

They didn't even try to get T.rump to do the same.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 10, 2020, 07:31:32 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 10, 2020, 06:38:20 PM
Fox News is calling for Biden to put country ahead of party.

They didn't even try to get T.rump to do the same.

Actually putting country ahead of party, would require outlawing both major parties, jailing all their leaders (see George Washington Farewell Address).  Do you really want that?  Or are you just a shill for your favorite party?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 11, 2020, 12:57:50 AM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 10, 2020, 06:38:20 PM
Fox News is calling for Biden to put country ahead of party.

They didn't even try to get T.rump to do the same.

That's because they're shameless hypocrites who don't play by the same rules. When a Conservative Supreme Court justice died in Obama's last year in office, he didn't nominate a Democrat, because he knew the Republicans would be concerned about the court actually leaning to the Left the way they always liked to claim that it already was. Instead, Obama nominated a moderate, who didn't lean heavily in either direction. Because Democrats are willing to compromise. Now, for Fox News to tell Biden to put "country ahead of party," that's a complete joke. Biden was the most tame Democrat we had to choose from. He was chosen because he was safe and nonthreatening, not because he has these grand ideas about how he's going to fix things. They expect us to believe that Biden is a Socialist, that he's going to abolish the police and abolish the prisons? Please.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 11, 2020, 10:15:52 AM
"'Non-Partisan' Chairman Of Presidential Debate Commission Linked To Steele Dossier & More..." ... so called debates all being run from Hillary's Fuhrer bunker

"White House Doctor Says Trump No Longer At Risk Of Transmitting The Coronavirus" ... still capable of acting like an idiot ;-)

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 11, 2020, 12:42:58 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 11, 2020, 12:57:50 AMThey expect us to believe that Biden is a Socialist, that he's going to abolish the police and abolish the prisons? Please.
I've wondered about this.  Are they so out of touch that they don't realize Biden is actually a moderate?  Maybe, maybe not.

Seems like a terrible strategy, to parade one's cluelessness.  But then I remembered their audience.  These people have commies under their beds, socialists in the closet, and "social marxists" in the cupboard.  Of course they're dumb enough to fall for this kind of stuff.

And this big-brained strategy may have a secondary goal - to try to drive a wedge between moderate Dems and leftists.  Every time the Biden camp denies that they'd back a Green New Deal or ban fracking, it presumably upsets the Bernie wing that actually wants those things and sows division in the Democratic Party's big tent.

If that's what they're stealthily going for, they're in for a rude awakening - the Sanders camp has already fallen in love and then fallen in line in the aftermath of the bitter primary season.  We understand what's at stake this election and the vast majority support Biden out of sheer pragmatic reasons (to say nothing of Sanders actively campaigning for Biden and finding some policy common ground)

Meanwhile, Trump has all but declared war on American voting rights, providing the Dems exactly the sort of common threat that they needed to solidify and even expand their coalition.  Whatever votes he hoped to peel away from the Dems are more than counteracted by the desperate alliances he helped form.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 11, 2020, 01:09:21 PM
538 is now giving Biden an 86% chance to win (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/).

And according to the state-by-state breakdown, Trump would have to win every state that leans his direction plus all the states where he's currently trailing by about 5% to win the election.

Trump would have to win:
Texas (51.1% Trump, 47.9% Biden)
Iowa (49.8% Trump, 48.9% Biden)
Georgia (49.9% Trump, 49.3% Biden)
Ohio (49.7% Biden, 49.3% Trump)
NC (50.6% Biden, 48.6% Trump)
Arizona (50.8% Biden, 47.9% Trump)
Florida (51.4% Biden, 47.8% Trump)
Wisconsin (52.8% Biden, 46.3% Trump)

It's unclear how he expects to win Ohio and Iowa after recently suspending all ad spending there.  Talking over his opponent is one of Trump's key strengths - letting Biden take the floor in the crucial month before the election is a hell of a risky strategy, but I guess that's what you have to do when you're in debt.

Meanwhile, Biden is surging his ads in Ohio, Iowa, Texas, and Georgia.  He gets to control the narrative in the first two, and really lean into Trump's shaky support in the last two.  Texas may be a long shot, but Georgia is a much closer race.  Losing that would be so embarrassing for Trump and the RNC.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 11, 2020, 01:55:09 PM
Biden has a 120% chance of winning because senile people are bad at arithmetic, but goes well with socialist, who also are bad at arithmetic ;-)

"Taliban Slams CBS 'Fake News', Refutes Claim They Endorse Trump" ... Trump killed ISIS leader.  Tried to make peace with Taliban (but Dems are war party) ... CIA runs opium production in Afghanistan, Taliban oppose drugs

"Putin Trolls Biden: Communists & Dems Share 'Common Values' While Trump Record Hard On Russia" ... Russia provided the false data on Trump to Steele so he could give it to Hillary.  Putin supported Hillary in 2016.  BLM is Marxist, and BLM supports the Dems so ... duh!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 12, 2020, 09:37:40 AM
"LATINOS FOR TRUMP LAUNCH MASSIVE ANTI-COMMUNIST CAR PARADE PROVING FLORIDA IS GOING TRUMP" .. they love communism

"SO MANY BIDEN FANS THINK HE LEGALIZED GAY MARRIAGE LOL" .. ignorance on the Dem plantation.  Like Al Gore invented the Internet.

"In Latest Teleblooper, Biden Calls For $15,000,000 Minimum Wage" ... "Sleepy Joe Biden had a particularly bad day today. He couldn’t remember the name of Mitt Romney, said again he was running for the U.S. Senate, and forgot what State he was in." ... in denial, insane, deceitful
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 13, 2020, 10:40:43 AM
“As Trump tilts his ‘great’ COVID drugs, the Pharma cash flows to Biden, not him” ... Big Pharma is one of the most malevolent forces on Earth

"Trump: "I Was Right About Damaging Lockdowns"" ... per new WHO guidance.  Proof that Trump is a Chinese agent

"Kanye West Asks Voters To Write In His Name For President With First Campaign Ad" ... If I were voting, I would vote for Kanye, the only real Black person in the Presidential election

""Hillary Auditions For SecDef In Sprawling Pro-Biden Op-Ed Admitting Massive Defense Jobs Cuts Plan"" ... she can hold there, while waiting the nod for VP from President Harris ... leading to President Harris getting Covid, and Hillary becoming President.  Also cut US forces so that China can safely invade Taiwan.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 13, 2020, 12:02:38 PM
Quote
Virginia’s Citizen Portal has gone down due to a cut fiber on Tuesday, preventing people from registering to vote online on the last day of voter registration before the Nov. 3 election, the Department of Elections says.

Residents can still register to vote by mailing in or dropping off paper applications.

Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax said that outages are reported statewide and called for the voter registration deadline to be extended beyond Tuesday. However, the Board of Elections hasn't announced plans to adjust the deadline.
There was a cut fiber somewhere in the vicinity of Richmond.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 13, 2020, 12:11:30 PM
Quote from: SGOS on October 13, 2020, 12:02:38 PM
There was a cut fiber somewhere in the vicinity of Richmond.

I support all legitimate voter registration, legitimate voting (as in NM).

"Whitmer kidnapping plot suspects also discussed abducting Virginia governor: FBI agent" ... attempt to smear Republicans?

"California hires Democratic operatives for 'Get Out The Vote' effort" ... legal?

"'Lacklustre Biden event' saw 30 attendees sit in their cars" ... even less rally attendance than animatronic Hillary in 2016 ;-)



Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 13, 2020, 12:42:02 PM
Early voting starts in two days and my husband told me he has changed his mind and is going to vote for Biden. Because NC is a battleground state I do think every vote matters.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 13, 2020, 12:53:43 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on October 13, 2020, 12:42:02 PM
Early voting starts in two days and my husband told me he has changed his mind and is going to vote for Biden. Because NC is a battleground state I do think every vote matters.

Hope your state isn't shambolic.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 13, 2020, 06:49:28 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on October 13, 2020, 12:42:02 PMEarly voting starts in two days and my husband told me he has changed his mind and is going to vote for Biden. Because NC is a battleground state I do think every vote matters.
NC is absolutely crucial.  Going in person asap.  Anticipating a long wait.  Gonna crawl on broken glass if I have to for this one, just to have the satisfaction of seeing that ballot get counted.

Better not be any electoral shenanigans.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 13, 2020, 08:03:51 PM
"Federal Judge Allows Clinton Foundation Whistleblower Complaint To Proceed, Rules IRS 'Abused Its Discretion'" ... maybe justice yet

"Never-Trump Group Is 2020's Top 'Dark Money' Spender So Far" ... Bill Crystal and other neo-Cons who were Trots in the 60s

"Trump Scores With Independents As Suburban Women Lean Left" ... election to be decided by the Karens?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 13, 2020, 09:56:15 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 13, 2020, 06:49:28 PM
NC is absolutely crucial.  Going in person asap.  Anticipating a long wait.  Gonna crawl on broken glass if I have to for this one, just to have the satisfaction of seeing that ballot get counted.

Better not be any electoral shenanigans.

I always vote early, in person and I have not missed a major election. Other than paying taxes and obeying the law, I feel like there are very few civic duties asked of Americans.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 14, 2020, 03:16:01 AM
"Pelosi Slams CNN's Wolf Blitzer: "You're Always An Apologist For Republicans"" ... CNN is a hive of Republicans ... bwahah.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 14, 2020, 07:24:27 AM
Yesterday, I saw another Biden/Harris sign in my county.  That makes a total of three, or somewhere less than .01% of all the signs county wide.  There are probably more, but this represents a 20 mile radius of my house on the more traveled secondary roads, which are actually not that well traveled.  This is southwestern Virginia's version of "Democrats coming out of the woodwork."  Usually, there are no Democratic signs at all.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 14, 2020, 08:58:41 AM
Quote from: SGOS on October 14, 2020, 07:24:27 AM
Yesterday, I saw another Biden/Harris sign in my county.  That makes a total of three, or somewhere less than .01% of all the signs county wide.  There are probably more, but this represents a 20 mile radius of my house on the more traveled secondary roads, which are actually not that well traveled.  This is southwestern Virginia's version of "Democrats coming out of the woodwork."  Usually, there are no Democratic signs at all.
I live in CA, but in a county that went Bush both times and trump the last time.  I have not seen a trump nor Biden sign in my neighborhood, which is quite strange.  And I have seen only one presidential sign in any part of town--a Biden/Harris sign.  Usually those signs are everywhere.  The city, county and state signs are everywhere. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 14, 2020, 09:18:52 AM
Quote from: SGOS on October 14, 2020, 07:24:27 AM
Yesterday, I saw another Biden/Harris sign in my county.  That makes a total of three, or somewhere less than .01% of all the signs countywide.  There are probably more, but this represents a 20-mile radius of my house on the more traveled secondary roads, which are actually not that well-traveled.  This is southwestern Virginia's version of "Democrats coming out of the woodwork."  Usually, there are no Democratic signs at all.

Speaking of signs, this was in the local news. I think if this "police officer" had any integrity he or she would have had a conversation with their neighbor and not sent an anonymous letter.

Woman Receives Threatening Letter Over Yard Sign (https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nc/triad/news/2020/10/13/woman-receives-threatening-letter-over-yard-sign)

(https://img1.etsystatic.com/171/0/14672083/il_340x270.1194604301_7bxh.jpg)

GREENSBORO, N.C. â€" A Greensboro woman is turning to the police after receiving a threatening letter in response to her yard sign.

The sign states several philosophies like Black lives matter, love is love, science is real, and water is life. The letter used intimidating language and claimed Black Lives Matter is a Marxist revolutionary group that wants to overthrow the government.

The writer closed with, “You and your sign are disgusting. Signed, a police officer, who you may someday call if, at night while you are sleeping, intruders break into your home and you are in fear of your life.”

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/d747e495b35c6fe256560ccc5857e62a/2902b9d5b3ec099c-de/s1280x1920/49c095b5c1baa1eaca11e629b75af78807c5e03f.jpg)

Jennifer Erausquin, the woman the letter was directly addressed to, says she sees the letter as proof that we have a long way to go.

“I truly believe that what we need is faith in our community, faith that we can come together, that we can have conversations and come to a shared understanding about our community, humanity, and human rights,” Erausquin said. “I’m willing to have hard conversations and I will always respect other people’s beliefs and their right to free speech.”

Erausquin reported the letter to Greensboro police officers and they're working to track down where it came from.

They say they have received 845 reports like this so far this year, compared to 580 at this time last year.




Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 14, 2020, 11:39:59 AM
Republicans win = Dems go to Auschwitz
Democrats win = Reps go to Gulag

""Guillotines, Motherf*cker": Colorado Democratic Committee Member Caught On Hidden Camera Talking Violent Revolution" ... can we kill these animals already?

Can't wait for the genocide to start!!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 14, 2020, 12:41:25 PM
Trump claims he's winning over Bernie supporters.  He's wrong. (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-14/trump-is-wrong-he-isn-t-winning-bernie-sanders-voters-over-biden)

QuoteTrump’s contention that he’ll attract Sanders voters is based on the notion that he’s an economic populist and that voters on the left will overlook his record on race, immigration, and women, and spurn Joe Biden at the polls. The idea that Trump could win over a meaningful percentage of Sanders voters and left populists first originated with former Trump advisor Steve Bannon, who put this theory into action with disastrous results that led to his ouster from the White House.
QuoteAccording to a tracking poll from Drew Linzer of the data analytics firm Civiqs, people who supported Sanders in the Democratic primaries now favor Biden over Trump 84% to 4%. And Trump’s 4% is unlikely to grow: 94% of Sanders supporters have an unfavorable view of the president.
In 2016, Trump ran on a fake populism platform which most Sanders supporters correctly deduced was a lie.  This year, he's running on tear gas and plague.  Unfavorable is a bit of an understatement.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 14, 2020, 12:42:19 PM
Biden supporters are, regardless of age, only fit for the nursing home ;-))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 14, 2020, 12:51:17 PM
Judge orders Virginia voter registration extended (https://richmond.com/news/state-and-regional/federal-judge-orders-virginia-voter-registration-deadline-to-be-extended/article_0865ecff-a3e7-524d-bca2-5fe390543392.html).  This in response to a cable severed in an apparent job-site accident on the last day of voter registration, depriving some potential voters of the right to vote.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 14, 2020, 01:44:26 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 14, 2020, 12:51:17 PM
Judge orders Virginia voter registration extended (https://richmond.com/news/state-and-regional/federal-judge-orders-virginia-voter-registration-deadline-to-be-extended/article_0865ecff-a3e7-524d-bca2-5fe390543392.html).  This in response to a cable severed in an apparent job-site accident on the last day of voter registration, depriving some potential voters of the right to vote.

VA governor said that was impossible ... per VA law.  So will this go further in the court?  Will one extra day of registration matter?  VA had computer problems with registration in 2016 too.

"Supreme Court Rules That Census Count Can Be Cut Short" .. basically Covid.  Per Covid, we should cancel the whole year of 2020, and start over in 2021 for election etc. ;-))

Interesting laptop abandoned at a computer repair store ...

"A Senate committee is investigating a bombshell cache of documents about Hunter Biden’s foreign dealings acquired by a Delaware computer repairman and exposed Wednesday by The Post." ... sounds like Joe didn't teach Hunter to use BleachBit.  Email about Joe meeting with Burisma in the WH in 4/2015 (which he has lied about).  Now not only expose this, but the Weiner laptop, that has copies of all of Hillary's evidence of crime on her part?

"Southwest Boots Black Trump Supporter For Lowering Face Mask To Eat" ... White Dems doing the same thing, weren't booted.  Southwest needs to keep the Blacks on the Dem plantation.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 15, 2020, 10:40:33 AM
"2 Individuals Linked To Biden Campaign Test Positive For COVID-19; Harris Suspends Campaign Until Monday" ... your turn!

"SECOND PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE REPLACED WITH COMPETING NBC AND ABC TOWN HALLS" ... what?  no dueling banjos?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsC4kf6x_Q0

You can play that while you watch one of the two flaming sacks of ...

My Ex and I both have Tennessee hillbillies a few generations back.  Them be fine folk, yeah!

"The Washington Post, Which Endorsed Biden, Says Biden Did Nothing Wrong" ... defenestrate MSM

"Twitter, Facebook Go Full Tilt Protecting Biden Just Weeks After Execs Join Transition Team" ... defenestrate Social Media
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 15, 2020, 10:45:35 PM
How did Trumplestilskin do in his latest campaign rally? I thought Biden did well in his conversation with voters. It was kind of boring actually, but that's just what I've been craving for years!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on October 15, 2020, 10:58:35 PM
I couldn't bring myself to watch any of the Oval Orifice's.  I did see someone on Discord comment that changing the channel from Trump's town hall to Biden's was like going from a performance artist slapping himself in the face with meat while farting into a kazoo to Bob Ross...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 16, 2020, 12:24:31 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 15, 2020, 10:45:35 PMIt was kind of boring actually, but that's just what I've been craving for years!
I could really go for some boring after the last few years.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 16, 2020, 02:19:29 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 15, 2020, 10:45:35 PM
How did Trumplestilskin do in his latest campaign rally? I thought Biden did well in his conversation with voters. It was kind of boring actually, but that's just what I've been craving for years!

Usually craving is for cigarettes or chocolate ;-)

"Dueling Townhalls Post Mortem: Snarling Savannah Vs Gentle George & Not A Single Question About Hunter Biden" ... Bwahah

"The 2020 Election Bamboozle: We Are All Victims Of The Deep State's Con Game" ... Election of 1788, Washington and Franklin were the original Deep State
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 16, 2020, 01:09:50 PM
People in my Facebook feed are seriously trying to spread this story that Biden's family are the "most corrupt political family in history." Umm... Have you forgotten Trump's family? Yeah, kinda hard to take you seriously when we still have the guy who flirts with dictators, murderers, and white supremacists in the White House.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 16, 2020, 01:20:24 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 16, 2020, 01:09:50 PM
People in my Facebook feed are seriously trying to spread this story that Biden's family are the "most corrupt political family in history." Umm... Have you forgotten Trump's family? Yeah, kinda hard to take you seriously when we still have the guy who flirts with dictators, murderers, and white supremacists in the White House.

All human beings are deplorables?  Including yours ;-)  Jail all humans, execute them all for their countless crimes against humanity ;-))

Seriously, Bill and Hillary are miles more evil than the Bidens or the Obamas.  Democrats are slavers since Andrew Jackson, but slavery has changed over time.  Republicans were Whigs (Yankee plutocrats).  President Jackson was elected to take them down, and he did, shutting down the predecessor of the Federal Reserve, and bringing about the first Great Depression ... in 1836.  From 1913-1933 it was a bipartisan thing to bring about the second Great Depression (using the new Federal Reserve as a partner).  Woodrow Wilson was one of the most evil Presidents, and he was a Democrat.  Same with Herbert Hoover, an evil Republican.  Y'all are being played, and played.  In my time, LBJ was far more evil than Nixon.

"TIKTOKERS TRIED TO CHEAT BIDEN TOWNHALL RATINGS ABOVE TRUMP BUT FAILED, TRUMP NEARLY DOUBLES RATIN.." .. election interference by useful idiots of CCP app, like with Tulsa rally two months ago.  Dems are the most pathetic and bad losers.  This is all by DNC morans, I don't blame the average deplorable.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 16, 2020, 03:16:07 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 16, 2020, 01:09:50 PM
People in my Facebook feed are seriously trying to spread this story that Biden's family are the "most corrupt political family in history."
Always projection with these people.  You can actually use that to get a pretty solid bead on what they're up to.  Corruption.  Election fraud.  Fake...everything.  Etc.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 16, 2020, 04:13:33 PM
Republicans ... evil doers accusing of innocent Democrats of evil ... don't hold your bets or your breath on that tribalism.

"Hunter Biden Business Associate Flips From Prison, Releases Emails Detailing China Influence-Peddling Operation" ... from 2011.  Bad to the Bone Bidens
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 17, 2020, 11:30:51 AM
"Biden Slams CBS Reporter For Asking About The Hunter Biden Scandal" ... yes, MSM are such skinheads.  Always going soft on the Republicans and savaging the Democrats ... Reeee,  just like recently when Wolf Blitzer didn't let Nancy Pelosi control both sides of her interview.  In the coming utopia, reporters only ask the questions the politicians want, and only comment on the politicians responses the way the politicians want.  Got tyranny?

""Hunter Biden's Story Is PROOF POSITIVE Of Collusion Between Media, Democrats, It's UNDENIABLE" ... MSM was part of DNC back in the 60s or LBJ wouldn't have got away with evil
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 17, 2020, 02:32:46 PM
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/17/trump-losing-polls-429986

Quote“Could you imagine if I lose?” Trump said Friday evening at a campaign rally in Macon, Ga. “My whole life, what am I going to do? I’m going to say, 'I lost to the worst candidate in the history of politics.' I’m not going to feel so good. Maybe I’ll have to leave the country. I don’t know.”
Say hi to Snowden for me.

But hey, it's not all bad for Trump, Liberty University has him on track to beat Hillary Clinton this year.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 17, 2020, 02:43:51 PM
I support Snowden and Putin ;-)  Putin is a real man, not a washed up senior.  Snowden committed a crime, but is more patriotic about liberty than either candidate.  America is evil and must be destroyed (says every SJW etc).

Russo-phobia combined with Sino-philia ... interesting, but stupid (says German guy on tricycle from Laugh-In).

"Kristen Welker, upcoming presidential debate moderator, has deep Democrat ties" ... everyone in politics has committed horrible immoral acts, on camera (often with the assistance of Epstein), so they can be blackmailed by the CIA.  Wonder what they have on Kristen.

"Full Story Behind Hunter's Laptop Debunks Latest Russia Conspiracy Theory" ... tag on computer has Hunter's signature ... Putin mind control made him do it, then made him take drugs (and worse things), made him take money for foreign concerns for access to his dad ... all because his dad is The Manchurian Candidate.

"Senate Homeland Committee Demands Answers From FBI Over Hunter Biden Laptop" ... waterboard the FBI to find out who the Dems are, then defenestrate the Dems.  FBI had this laptop since last December, and did nothing.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 17, 2020, 06:07:23 PM
Oh, my god. Now they're trying to say that Obama and Biden faked Osama Bin Laden's death. This is hilarious shit. Trump is just throwing shit at the wall, and seeing what sticks. He's getting desperate.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mermaid on October 17, 2020, 06:17:26 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 17, 2020, 06:07:23 PM
Oh, my god. Now they're trying to say that Obama and Biden faked Osama Bin Laden's death. This is hilarious shit. Trump is just throwing shit at the wall, and seeing what sticks. He's getting desperate.
I don't think it's hilarious. He is clearly just making shit up, and all of it's sticking. His base believes every word that comes from his disgusting mouth. It worked great at the last election. Hillary-gate and all.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 17, 2020, 06:22:13 PM
Quote from: Mermaid on October 17, 2020, 06:17:26 PM
I don't think it's hilarious. He is clearly just making shit up, and all of it's sticking. His base believes every word that comes from his disgusting mouth. It worked great at the last election. Hillary-gate and all.

The emails thing is more believable. Even if I do think it's horseshit. But the idea that Bin Laden was never actually killed? Where's he been all this time? Wouldn't he want to let people know he was still causing trouble for America? I mean, which is easier, killing Bin Laden or finding a body double to play the part of Bin Laden, killing the double, then shooting down the soldiers who took part to cover it up? Trump's loyal sheep will lap it up, of course, but I don't think the general public is stupid enough to take that seriously.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 17, 2020, 06:35:28 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 17, 2020, 06:22:13 PMThe emails thing is more believable. Even if I do thing it's horseshit. But the idea that Bin Laden was never actually killed? Where's he been all this time? Wouldn't he want to let people know he was still causing trouble for America? I mean, which is easier, killing Bin Laden or finding a body double to play the part of Bin Laden, killing the double, then shooting down the soldiers who took part to cover it up? Trump's loyal sheep will lap it up, of course, but I don't think the general public is stupid enough to take that seriously.
I listened to a podcast about this and bear in mind that these people are supposed to be more or less average Americans (queue the general idiocy) and their general impression is that the operation was so sudden, the body disposed of so quickly, and not really documented that it comes across as very suspicious.  This whole chain of events is fertile ground for conspiracy/denialism and therefore Trump's assertion is somewhat reasonable and whether or not Bin Laden is dead is an open question.

Of course, they didn't have a particularly well-read impression.  From what I've gathered, Bin Laden was indeed identified and he was buried out at sea so there would be no gravesite (which no Middle Eastern country would want) and minimal political fallout.

The moral of the story is that you can take just about anything, give part of the story (it's helpful to know as little as possible for this part) and make it sound extremely suspicious and therefore some big conspiracy.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 17, 2020, 07:09:18 PM
Even God has no idea what Trump is going to say next.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 17, 2020, 07:14:43 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 17, 2020, 06:07:23 PM
Oh, my god. Now they're trying to say that Obama and Biden faked Osama Bin Laden's death. This is hilarious shit. Trump is just throwing shit at the wall, and seeing what sticks. He's getting desperate.

Not clear, because of the body being disposed of.  Osama had several sons as tall as he was (he was taller than normal), and he is rumored to have had body doubles.  Supposedly the DNA of relatives confirms the kill, but that might only confirm it is one of his sons.  The old rumor was that the FBI visited Osama in a Dubai hospital in August 2001.  He had health problems, and may have died.  His people could have invested in using a body double to pretend he was still alive.  These rumors were around long before Trump was elected.  Trump as President could have seen the classified report, but he is no genetics expert.  Obama as President may have found even a false kill to be politically helpful, since this was a year before his re-election.

https://www.history.com/news/the-costliest-day-in-seal-team-six-history

So this falls into the conspiracy theory, as most people on the Osama raid didn't live long.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 17, 2020, 07:15:08 PM
Quote from: SGOS on October 17, 2020, 07:09:18 PM
Even God has no idea what Trump is going to say next.

Twitter gives and Twitter takes away ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on October 17, 2020, 07:18:34 PM
I know a few guys who got sucked into Talk radio. Fox, Breitbart, Hannity. Everyone knows a guy like this. Their lives may have not exactly played out like they thought and this stuff gives them an excuse... an enemy to blame. Otherwise good men who get addicted and consumed by it. Some of their wives too, but not always. One guy like this was my mentor. He mentioned his family couldn't stand to be around him anymore. It is all he talked about. I was apolitical at the time, too busy with tech stuff. He got so worked up with hate of "libtards" he gave himself a heart attack and then another and finally a fatal stroke. The last time I saw him he was enjoying chatting "engineering" with a bunch of liberals. Just gotta steer clear of certain topics. Just treat them like addicts. These manipulators know how to get the brain chemicals moving.

There is a documentary about it.

https://www.thebrainwashingofmydad.com/
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 17, 2020, 07:27:22 PM
Freud's nephew, Edward Bernays, invented media brainwashing, we have been brainwashed professionally since about 1923.  MSM does it long before Social Media was created.  Back in the 90s I tried Rush Limbaugh, but I was unimpressed.  Same with Alex Jones later.  Some people are their own worst enemies (Rush with oxycontin).  He worked for US propaganda during WWI.  Bernays promoted women smoking, in 1929, as part of women's liberation (he was paid by Big Tobacco).  In the early 50s he worked with the CIA to destabilize Guatemala.

You can fool all the people all the time, make them vote the way you want, get them to purchase unnecessary quantities of detergent.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on October 17, 2020, 09:00:50 PM
Quote from: SGOS on October 17, 2020, 07:09:18 PM
Even God has no idea what Trump is going to say next.
Like all humans, the issue is not so much what they say, as what they wish they could. With tRump, that is a very scary.....
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 18, 2020, 12:13:44 AM
Quote from: aitm on October 17, 2020, 09:00:50 PM
Like all humans, the issue is not so much what they say, as what they wish they could. With tRump, that is a very scary.....

Humans are the most dangerous predator on this planet.  It is wise to not trust any of them with your back turned ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 18, 2020, 09:41:37 AM
"Twitter Refuses To Unlock NYPost Account Unless Paper Deletes Tweets About Hunter Biden" ... quid pro quo, like Genie says isn't an option, but Joe Biden loves.

"Before The Bidens "Did" Ukraine, There Was Iraq... And Serbia" .. worldwide grifting by the Elite
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on October 18, 2020, 04:21:55 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 16, 2020, 01:09:50 PM
People in my Facebook feed are seriously trying to spread this story that Biden's family are the "most corrupt political family in history." Umm... Have you forgotten Trump's family? Yeah, kinda hard to take you seriously when we still have the guy who flirts with dictators, murderers, and white supremacists in the White House.
Not to mention the Bush family's long-standing relationship with the House of Saud and their protection of the nation from which most of the 9/11 terrorists came from.  There are a lot of Republicans to get through before the Biden family is even the smallest blip on the criminality radar.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 18, 2020, 05:20:08 PM
Quote from: trdsf on October 18, 2020, 04:21:55 PM
Not to mention the Bush family's long-standing relationship with the House of Saud and their protection of the nation from which most of the 9/11 terrorists came from.  There are a lot of Republicans to get through before the Biden family is even the smallest blip on the criminality radar.

Oh, Obama war criminal?  Yes, him too.  The Bidens are minor criminals, like Pelosi, Schiff etc.

Evidence on the Biden family hid by FBI since last November?  If it had come out 10 months ago, the Biden family would be on trial, and Bernie Sanders would be the Dem candidate.  I think that would have been a better outcome, an honest communist vs a crime family.  But that wouldn't have suited the Clintons at all.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 19, 2020, 07:42:00 AM
Trump: if Biden is elected, he'll listen to the scientists (https://www.axios.com/trump-warns-lockdowns-if-biden-elected-scientists-c1263b65-15c9-47a1-9d6b-63161f6c5170.html)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 19, 2020, 09:54:26 AM
"BIDEN SLAMMED BY UNION FOR LYING AND CLAIMING THEY ENDORSED HIM WHEN THEY ENDORSED TRUMP" ... ugly senility

"COPS BEG JOE BIDEN TO STOP SAYING THEY SHOULD SHOOT PEOPLE IN THE LEG" ... another moran

"TRUMP CAMP CLAIMS DEM GOVERNOR CALLED FOR ASSASSINATION SAYING "86 45" WIKIPEDIA SCRUBS DEFINITION" ... Whitmer is nuts

"CUOMO, DEBLASIO SHOW US WHAT A BIDEN PRESIDENCY WOULD BE LIKE... DYSFUNCTIONAL AND UNCONSTITUTIONA.." ... demonology.  Cuomo and Hillary both want positions in the Biden/Harris dictatorship.

"New Data Analysis Finds 353 Counties With 1.8 Million More Registered Voters Than Residents" ... tip of the corrupt voting iceberg

"New York's Botched Ballot Mailing, Primary Debacle Rattle Voter Confidence" ... put Cuoma/DeBlasio in charge of America
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 19, 2020, 02:01:14 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 19, 2020, 07:42:00 AM
Trump: if Biden is elected, he'll listen to the scientists (https://www.axios.com/trump-warns-lockdowns-if-biden-elected-scientists-c1263b65-15c9-47a1-9d6b-63161f6c5170.html)

Oh no! Not the scientists! We need a leader who listens to people who actually know what they're talking about, like this guy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JRLCBb7qK8
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 19, 2020, 03:42:06 PM
https://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/8-scientific-conspiracies-that-turned-out-to-be-true/page-4/

Please consume the pesticide atrazine so you can become a true snowflake ;-)  I still have my doubts about floridating the public water supply.

As the article says, in some species (not humans) it is perfectly natural to switch sex.  Please don't share a selfie of self castration ;-) ... the market for eunuchs has dried up ;-))

"Streisand Effect: Twitter Ban On Biden Laptop Scandal Nearly Doubled Visibility According To MIT" ... bwahaha
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 20, 2020, 08:24:23 AM
Natalie Wynn makes an appeal to leftists who are too edgy to participate in the electoral farce.

https://youtu.be/t3Vah8sUFgI

"Even though Biden is not my boy, I still think dethroning Trump by electing Biden is the single most important thing any American can do right now. ... To me, voting is more of a utilitarian calculation based on the likely consequences of each candidate winning. It's not hero worship, it's not choosing a person to have a beer with, it's strategy."
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 20, 2020, 11:26:40 AM
"Sperry Exposes The Complete History Of Hunter Biden's Crony-Connected Jobs" ... Hunter has been working his dad's crooked deals since he graduated from college, so I believe his dad was making him give him half of his "income" since it was a way to launder campaign contributions ;-(

Lots of politicians have done this, but I don't approve of Joe abusing his son like this.

""This Is Not A Russian Hoax": 'Nonpublic Information' Debunks Letter From '50 Former Intel Officials'" ... who are currently Dems?  If they are former officials, it is OK for them to be partisan.

""WHAT THE F*CK! IM OUT": Rapper 50 Cent Melts Down Over Biden-Harris Tax Plan, Endorses Trump" ... oh, some rich finally realize they aren't part of the Clinton/Obama/Biden club?

"NEW HARD EVIDENCE DROPS ON HUNTER AND JOE BIDEN SCANDAL, FAKE NEWS DESPERATELY LIES SCREAMING RUSS.." .. the Russians are gods of chess, Americans are losers at checkers

"Project Veritas Drops A HUGE Inside Video For GOOGLE, They ADMIT To 'Playing God' With Election" ... atheists now forbidden from using Google ;-)

"DEBUNKED! Wikipedia Editors Back Bidens, Stifle Dissent" ... Wikipedia also founded by the CIA

"TRUMP GOES TO CHURCH, LEGACY MEDIA OUTRAGED" ... a real Republican sould have taken money out of the plate, not put money in ;-)

"Mark Zuckerberg Donates Hundreds Of Millions To Increase Voter Turnout In Democratic Strongholds" .. nothing illegal about that, he should give all his money to Hillary, who will know what to do with it ;-)

"Rudy Giuliani Turns Over Alleged Photos Of Underage Girls From Hunter's Hard Drive To Delaware Police" .. FBI won't do anything.  Hunter's two partners in the Ukraine scam are already in jail for corruption.  The MSM won't tell you that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 21, 2020, 10:52:47 AM
Some kind of record breaking super pac is funding mega millions to Biden, who is apparently outspending Trump by double or something like that.  I guess this is considered some kind of indicator of who's ahead, but I'm astounded at why blatant ads can be that effective.  Ads are not like actual news coverage, which seems like a better indicator of who would be the better choice.  People are affected by ads to be sure, which is what Madison Ave is all about, but ads don't tell you what you need to know.  They are mostly lies, whether they are for a political candidate or Ibuprofen.  And mega millions of ads funneled into a swing state seems like it would get tiresome.

Maybe a big campaign war chest tells us that more people support a candidate, but who are these people?  Big money comes from big corporations, with their own motives, and of course they are going to pour money into Biden's account, because he's the most likely winner.  No sense giving Trump money if he's not going to be there to do your bidding.  It's not like giving money to a candidate is an endorsement, It's about buying the candidate.  It tells us who the winner will be doing the favors for, and it's most likely not going to be you.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 21, 2020, 11:08:50 AM
Well, after all, SGOS, money is free speech.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 21, 2020, 11:16:07 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 21, 2020, 11:08:50 AM
Well, after all, SGOS, money is free speech.
What happens to the money they don't spend, or does that never happen?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 21, 2020, 11:40:33 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 19, 2020, 07:42:00 AM
Trump: if Biden is elected, he'll listen to the scientists (https://www.axios.com/trump-warns-lockdowns-if-biden-elected-scientists-c1263b65-15c9-47a1-9d6b-63161f6c5170.html)

What does that even mean? Is he mocking? What is it? America is not in depression? The world is in depression, America is not floating in space.

The thing with people who think they hold absolute power is that they see the world in black and white and the world is never black and white. So he's actually been doing what he claims is harmful for the country the whole time.

I also wonder what he understand from the word 'scientist'. Whats her face, the demon sex lady? Isn't that the scientist for these people?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 21, 2020, 11:47:10 AM
There is a series of these billboards in Greensboro. I wonder how effective they are.

(https://www.pennlive.com/resizer/eVeZyUSusYs5Ki8AqZotjbsZUv8=/1280x0/smart/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/advancelocal/7ANIYQUKCJCILCE2MZNSE7KTWE.jpg)

(https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BB19CnDT.img?h=315&w=600&m=6&q=60&o=t&l=f&f=jpg&x=248&y=177)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 11:55:42 AM
Quote from: SGOS on October 21, 2020, 10:52:47 AM
Some kind of record breaking super pac is funding mega millions to Biden, who is apparently outspending Trump by double or something like that.  I guess this is considered some kind of indicator of who's ahead, but I'm astounded at why blatant ads can be that effective.  Ads are not like actual news coverage, which seems like a better indicator of who would be the better choice.  People are affected by ads to be sure, which is what Madison Ave is all about, but ads don't tell you what you need to know.  They are mostly lies, whether they are for a political candidate or Ibuprofen.  And mega millions of ads funneled into a swing state seems like it would get tiresome.

Maybe a big campaign war chest tells us that more people support a candidate, but who are these people?  Big money comes from big corporations, with their own motives, and of course they are going to pour money into Biden's account, because he's the most likely winner.  No sense giving Trump money if he's not going to be there to do your bidding.  It's not like giving money to a candidate is an endorsement, It's about buying the candidate.  It tells us who the winner will be doing the favors for, and it's most likely not going to be you.

China + Soros + Bloomberg + ActBlue (getting money from BLM and AntiFa) + corporations joining Cthulhu (they want to be the last eaten).  That is why Trump isn't loved by corporations, he is wealthy enough to not give an F.

Per road signs above ... some people are Uncle Toms ;-)  The first one should add "I'm a Karen".  How dare they stereotype White people as blondes!!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 11:56:08 AM
Quote from: SGOS on October 21, 2020, 11:16:07 AM
What happens to the money they don't spend, or does that never happen?

Buys Bernie another house ;-))

Old film short, but now I know Pence is Shiva!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-hYq3Y9IoU

This is why Buddhism is better than Hinduism ... the Buddha would embrace his inner "flyness" ;-)  On that note ...

"Hunter Biden Witness Moved From Prison Cell After Exposing Influence-Peddling Operation" ... lots or arkancides coming, gone the way of Jeffery Epstein, Seth Rich and Vince Foster, no inner peace.

"THE FINAL PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE MICROPHONE MUTING ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE" ... mute both candidates completely.  DNC moderator can put words in Biden's mouth and Trump's mouth.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 21, 2020, 02:28:55 PM
Quote from: SGOS on October 21, 2020, 11:16:07 AM
What happens to the money they don't spend, or does that never happen?
I've wondered that myself.  Is that one of the reasons there are no poor people serving in congress--either house??  With the orange monster, there is no mystery--like a good mob boss, it goes into his pockets.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 21, 2020, 02:43:17 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 21, 2020, 11:40:33 AM
What does that even mean? Is he mocking? What is it? America is not in depression? The world is in depression, America is not floating in space.

The thing with people who think they hold absolute power is that they see the world in black and white and the world is never black and white. So he's actually been doing what he claims is harmful for the country the whole time.

I also wonder what he understand from the word 'scientist'. Whats her face, the demon sex lady? Isn't that the scientist for these people?
Trump claimed that the scientists would lock everything down (apparently for no reason) slowing down the economy.  So yes, he meant listen to the scientists as if it were a bad thing.

And yes, we are in an economic depression right now.  Maybe if we locked everything down, got cases under control, then reopened safely, that wouldn't have happened.  Guess we'll never know.  What I do know is that this disease is still running rampant, the POTUS alternates between playing the blame game and being deeply in denial (true leadership right there), and a lot of places are still closed because there's still no safe way to open.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 21, 2020, 02:47:45 PM
Trump: "nobody wants me", leaves event early (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/nobody-wants-me-trump-plays-sympathy-card-at-pennsylvania-rally-before-cutting-event-short-and-dancing-off-stage-to-ymca-b1200436.html)

QuoteIn one of his most bizarre and incoherent performances to date, president Donald Trump on Tuesday night told a Pennsylvania rally "nobody wants me" before cutting the event short and dancing off the stage to YMCA.

Outmuscled financially and trailing Joe Biden in most national and battleground polls, Mr Trump did not appear to be his usual energetic self, as he addressed thousands of Make America Great Again supporters crammed into a chilly and dark Erie International Airport.

Two weeks out from election day the president, 74, complained about the temperature, which had been hovering around 10C (50F) telling the crowd he was only there because he was losing, a highly unusual move â€" even for a president as unpredictable as Mr Trump.

At one point, the commander-in-chief appeared to be trying to get the crowd to feel sorry for him, telling them "nobody wants me".
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 02:55:57 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 21, 2020, 02:28:55 PM
I've wondered that myself.  Is that one of the reasons there are no poor people serving in congress--either house??  With the orange monster, there is no mystery--like a good mob boss, it goes into his pockets.

It is all about money.  You can shrive your soul by sending me all of yours ;-)

Back in the day, candidates pocketed lots of money in campaigns that didn't go the campaign.  And lots of lobbyist bribes went to officials while in office.  They tried to reform this a few decades ago, but the reforms have been an utter failure.

On Trump, y'all find his NYC humor incomprehensible.  Bunch of Cali surfer bums ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 21, 2020, 02:56:13 PM
Quote"nobody wants me"

Maybe he is coming down from some substance?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 02:57:29 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 21, 2020, 02:56:13 PM
Maybe he is coming down from some substance?

Disembodied Twitter spirits would say that ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 04:21:21 PM
"Joe Biden Insists Son Never Profited Off Family Name; Except Hunter And Ex-President Of Poland Say He Did" ... perfect politician, he doesn't know when he is lying

""Piles Of Stolen Mail On The Side Of The Road": Ballot Thefts Reported In Two Portland-Metro Suburbs" ... end voting now

"Secret Service Travel Logs Match Details In Alleged Hunter Biden Emails" ... proof SS is infiltrated by KGB

"Hunter Biden Emails Debunk 'No Burisma Investigation' Claims" ... no there there
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on October 21, 2020, 05:25:42 PM
Long voting line tip: Rent a walker with a seat.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 05:43:06 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 21, 2020, 05:25:42 PM
Long voting line tip: Rent a walker with a seat.

I have one of my mom's ... for future use ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 21, 2020, 06:24:32 PM
Long lines keep the proletariat in line.  We are now about where the Soviet Union was in 1950.  America is Great Again.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 21, 2020, 06:53:50 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 21, 2020, 02:56:13 PM
Maybe he is coming down from some substance?

He was apparently on a very powerful steroid. So maybe. Or maybe he's finally getting the hint that the only people who like him are evangelical nutcases, white supremacists, rednecks, and evangelical white-supremacist rednecks. And the super rich, of course.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 07:32:40 PM
Quote from: SGOS on October 21, 2020, 06:24:32 PM
Long lines keep the proletariat in line.  We are now about where the Soviet Union was in 1950.  America is Great Again.

Do that better.  Stalin has Beria liquidated and lives forever ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 07:33:46 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 21, 2020, 06:53:50 PM
He was apparently on a very powerful steroid. So maybe. Or maybe he's finally getting the hint that the only people who like him are evangelical nutcases, white supremacists, rednecks, and evangelical white-supremacist rednecks. And the super rich, of course.

You can't know people by their friends, but by their enemies.  Starbuck's Triple Soy Latte drinkers make good enemies ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 21, 2020, 07:56:45 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 21, 2020, 06:53:50 PM
He was apparently on a very powerful steroid. So maybe. Or maybe he's finally getting the hint that the only people who like him are evangelical nutcases, white supremacists, rednecks, and evangelical white-supremacist rednecks. And the super rich, of course.
It was hard to read his body language in that little snippet.  I would say he looked dramatically unlike himself, but what he was feeling I'm not sure.  I though maybe resignation to his likely loss in November?  He was trying to make a joke about not being wanted by China and Iraq, but he looked worn out, which would be natural in recovery from Coronavirus, and we don't know when they took him off the Dex, so he could be crashing.  I wonder if he's going to be too tired to bully Biden tomorrow night.  I plan on watching the "debate" for at least 20 minutes, and then turning it off, unless it's actually interesting and not a version of reality TV.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 07:59:28 PM
We are living in reality TV as contestants.  Will you be kicked of The Island?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 21, 2020, 08:05:02 PM
I might watch the SNL skit of the debate. I'm sure it'll be more worth my time than the real thing.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on October 21, 2020, 08:13:15 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 21, 2020, 06:53:50 PM
He was apparently on a very powerful steroid. So maybe. Or maybe he's finally getting the hint that the only people who like him are evangelical nutcases, white supremacists, rednecks, and evangelical white-supremacist rednecks. And the super rich, of course.
Why do I have this mental image of baby boomers/X leaving a country half-flooded and half-on-fire to an early onset diabetic generation that has started adulthood in-debt, living in their parent's (2nd mortgaged) house with a shelf full of participation trophies while a pandemic rages needlessly?

Holy run-on sentence Batman.

Being on the Boomer-X cusp myself...I am rooting for millennials. They are way more socially conscience, green minded, mostly godless and when they get their shit together they will save the planet and the species. Hopefully Trump will be the final really bad contribution that us boomers can muster up before we check out. We need to keep our sense of humor about all of this. Somehow. Life is still wonderful and beautiful and people are still basically good.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 10:22:06 PM
SNL?  Like when Bill Burr mocked y'all?

Hate Boomers?  Want to kill us before or after you toss us in the nursing home?

Oh, I thought Millennials were the worst generation, now they are the master race?

I support all the 20-60 year olds, because you are the ones that have to make things happen.  But not out of any generational prejudice.  Children are too young and seniors are too old.

"Putin says US Democratic Party 'closer to Social Democratic ideas,' would work with 'any future president'" .. he helped Hillary, not Trump.  He will help Biden too, because Biden is China's bitch, and China is Putin's ally ... "Agency heads say it involves hacked voter registration information as well as 'spoofed' emails sent to Democrats in order to damage President Trump" ... bwahah


Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on October 21, 2020, 10:39:03 PM
I'll tell ya, my parents didn't wanna be my friend and didn't give a damn about seeming cool to my friends. In fact they went out of their way to embarrass me by being as uncool as they could be. Hell, I love them !
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 21, 2020, 11:54:35 PM
Quote from: Cassia on October 21, 2020, 10:39:03 PM
I'll tell ya, my parents didn't wanna be my friend and didn't give a damn about seeming cool to my friends. In fact they went out of their way to embarrass me by being as uncool as they could be. Hell, I love them !

Parents ... can't live with them, can't be born/raised without them ;-)  You got to be you (you adult you).  Sorry they are dorks, "it is the way" per Mandalorian.  Parents live to embarrass their children, but usually when they are teenagers and are too emo.  You can embarrass them back, in love.  I certainly did.  I have never complained about my daughter's politics (but I gripe to myself).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 22, 2020, 12:53:45 AM
Quote from: Cassia on October 21, 2020, 08:13:15 PMBeing on the Boomer-X cusp myself...I am rooting for millennials. They are way more socially conscience, green minded, mostly godless and when they get their shit together they will save the planet and the species.
I mean, we're sorta more liberal than previous generations (true of Gen Z as well) but there's one incy wincy problem...

(https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/5V13iZ8Nj12FFfM-0gEtmuvo27s=/300x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost/public/ZQ2CUAWWCJD3XHI4B6PDJIURN4.png)

It's all that avocado toast and vidja games, surely...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 22, 2020, 03:50:28 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 21, 2020, 06:53:50 PM
He was apparently on a very powerful steroid. So maybe. Or maybe he's finally getting the hint that the only people who like him are evangelical nutcases, white supremacists, rednecks, and evangelical white-supremacist rednecks. And the super rich, of course.

Yeah it's probably the drugs and they'll adjust the dose or come up with a better arrangement. Or it is some sort of an act.

But wouldn't they know that? For whatever reason he is taking it, they would know it has side affects like this. Because this is not a 70 something year old living at the next door whose behavioural disorders only affect the wife, the dog and neighbours who constantly avoids him. He is a president.

If it is an act or a combination of drugs and act; if they are letting it happen for the means of some strategy, it is gonna get really creepy. I swear, I can picture him crying in front of the cameras; telling how much he loves you all one by one, how he was thinking about only you when he did anything and for this great country OR even blaming some deep state for the last 4 years on whatever he has said and done. It's going to be a Rick and Morty episode, buckle up. 

In any case, the moment he is sure he can't get elected again, he will cry. Mark my words.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on October 22, 2020, 08:39:58 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 22, 2020, 12:53:45 AM
I mean, we're sorta more liberal than previous generations (true of Gen Z as well) but there's one incy wincy problem...

(https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/5V13iZ8Nj12FFfM-0gEtmuvo27s=/300x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost/public/ZQ2CUAWWCJD3XHI4B6PDJIURN4.png)

It's all that avocado toast and vidja games, surely...

Yeah, that is a flat and low line for millennials alright. However...I dare say that most of that boomer wealth is concentrated in a very few individuals. The rest of it is anything but liquid; most (~>60%) is tied up in home equity. That's why Tom Selleck is on TV selling reverse mortgages so that some gen X's and millennials don't even get the house. The concentration of wealth has been extraordinary during the reign of the boomer. The stock market and patience are key mechanisms. When young, inexperienced people try to break in.. the reddit stock boards show what often happens:
(https://i.ibb.co/wYHYspP/Image5.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 22, 2020, 09:27:47 AM
The answer to a Boomer is a pre Boomer?

Trump born 1946
Biden born 1942

Generational wealth has been systematically suppressed since Ronald Reagan.  This is bipartisan, because both parties work for the same Elites.

See chart repeated by Hillary who is a wealthy Boomer/Elite ;-)

https://www.epi.org/blog/inequality-central-productivity-pay-gap/

Boomers and later have all suffered from a productivity vs wage gap, and from inflation.  There is more unemployment and underemployment than in the WWII generation who benefited from the unique post-WWII boom.  Today work is more part-time than before, with less benefits after inflation.  This is why in my parent's generation, a blue-collar worker who had full employment and good benefits could be married with children and the wife only worked if she wanted to and only part time even then.

"$1 in 1980 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $3.15 in 2020, a difference of $2.15 over 40 years" a decline in value by more than 2/3.

Most of my income over 40 years was spent on daily expenses and credit card interest (something my parent's didn't have).  A great deal was burned because of cyclical unemployment.  For most of the Boomers, a great deal was spent on mortgage payments, their house being their primary investment, and many put a second mortgage on it during the go-go years before 2009 aka the bank still owns the house (and the government ultimately owns it thru eminent domain).

The next generation will see little inheritance, because of uncovered medical expenses, mortgages underwater, and funeral expenses.  The first and third items nearly exhausted my parent's estate, along with my mother living to a very old age.  They did benefit uniquely by a positive housing market that they cashed out of around 2009 or before.  My real estate was a net loss before retirement.  Beware that any paper assets are of ephemeral value compared to even real estate, since they are all based on the bigger fool theory.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 22, 2020, 09:28:35 AM
Quote from: Cassia on October 21, 2020, 08:13:15 PM
Why do I have this mental image of baby boomers/X leaving a country half-flooded and half-on-fire to an early onset diabetic generation that has started adulthood in-debt, living in their parent's (2nd mortgaged) house with a shelf full of participation trophies while a pandemic rages needlessly?

Holy run-on sentence Batman.



LOL, Cassia. That had a VR effect on me.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 22, 2020, 09:36:46 AM
Starting in particular with Obama, Millennials and their parents were sold on going into ridiculous debt for a valueless college degree.  But this decline started much earlier.  For a pre-/early Boomer generation, college was even free in-state, and the value of even a non-STEM degree wasn't diluted by too many kids going to college, or by all genuine jobs being exported to India and China.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 22, 2020, 10:13:16 AM
"New Biden Biz Partner Emerges, Confirms "Big Guy" Joe Directly Involved In China Deal" .. potential suicides keep multiplying

"Hunter Biden Laptop Linked To FBI Money Laundering Investigation" ... all the pols do it, but most don't keep their big wad in a washing machine.  one pol kept his in the freezer.

"Fears Of Biden Capital Gains Tax Hike Spark Avalanche Of Private Company Sales" ... Biden is good for giant multinationals, not others

"Home Depot Co-Founder: "Fraud" To Suggest Middle-Class Won't See Higher Taxes Under Biden" ... duh, soak the rich never happens ... “It’s absolutely a fraud... The only way a tax increase will generate revenues is to go after the middle class. That’s where the numbers are. These people are being misled...”
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 22, 2020, 11:07:20 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 22, 2020, 03:50:28 AM
Yeah it's probably the drugs and they'll adjust the dose or come up with a better arrangement. Or it is some sort of an act.

But wouldn't they know that? For whatever reason he is taking it, they would know it has side affects like this. Because this is not a 70 something year old living at the next door whose behavioural disorders only affect the wife, the dog and neighbours who constantly avoids him. He is a president.

If it is an act or a combination of drugs and act; if they are letting it happen for the means of some strategy, it is gonna get really creepy. I swear, I can picture him crying in front of the cameras; telling how much he loves you all one by one, how he was thinking about only you when he did anything and for this great country OR even blaming some deep state for the last 4 years on whatever he has said and done. It's going to be a Rick and Morty episode, buckle up. 

In any case, the moment he is sure he can't get elected again, he will cry. Mark my words.

They haven't been able to control the President's behavior before. Why start now?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 22, 2020, 12:04:42 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 22, 2020, 11:07:20 AM
They haven't been able to control the President's behavior before. Why start now?

Lincoln was elected by 35% of the vote, and provoked a Civil War.  John Wilkes Booth took too long to control him.

Who are they?  The MSM shills?  The CIA/FBI who assassinated JFK and control every pol via blackmail?  Now the public knows some of the blackmail that the Deep State has on the Biden crime family.

"Leftists Create Database to DOX Trump Supporters, Fliers Threatening CIVIL WAR Found in Kansas" ... just like our sane buddy, John Brown, in 1858?  The voter registrations let us know where every Democrat lives ... einstatzgruppen will have an easy time.

"Putin Endorses Comrade Joe Biden, Praises Democrats For Communist Ideals" .. correct, Mr Putin.

"Harris, prominent Democrats listed as 'key contacts' for Biden family business venture projects" ... duh!

"Ghislaine Maxwell deposition transcripts for 2016 case released" ... nothing to see, she lied thru her teeth

"FBI confirms Iran responsible for wave of fake emails intended to intimidate voters" ... Dems doing the will of the Ayatollah
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 22, 2020, 05:15:49 PM
Stand down and cover your eyes (https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-postal-service-benches-its-police-officers-before-election-11602862096)

QuoteFrank Albergo, president of the Postal Police Officers Association, said the order to stand down, coming so close to the election, is especially concerning. “If I was going to undermine public trust in the mail, one of the first things I would do is pull postal police off the street,” he said.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 22, 2020, 08:05:36 PM
QuoteNYT: During the first two minutes each candidate speaks in each of the six 15-minute segments, his opponent’s microphone will be muted. After those initial statements in each segment, both mics will be turned on and are not expected to be cut off during the rest of the segment, even if one candidate keeps interrupting the other or eats up time talking.
Is this better than nothing? 4 minutes without interruption followed by an 11 minute free for all in each segment.  Trump is probably brushing up on his interruptions right now.  The news still can't resist the reality TV format.  I'm going to give myself 8 minutes for the debate.  I promise myself 8 minutes.  It could be longer.  I already voted so the debate doesn't help me.  I received a dvd from Netflix today with the first 4 episodes of Penny Dreadful, it's in the drive and ready to go.  I'm good, here.  So you guys don't have to worry about me.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 22, 2020, 08:30:04 PM
I expect another debacle, but I must watch as if it were a traffic fiasco.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 22, 2020, 08:35:07 PM
I'm not watching it.  I consider debates to be useful to get insight on the candidates before voting.  But since I've voted, then there's really no point to me watching it.

I have no doubt Trump will try to turn this one into another circus, and I have zero interest in that.  Let me know how it turns out, though.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 22, 2020, 09:02:12 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 22, 2020, 08:30:04 PM
I expect another debacle, but I must watch as if it were a traffic fiasco.

You need counseling.  I won't watch any of them.

"Hunter Biden's Ex-Partner To Be Trump's Debate Guest As Senate Demands Hunter Turn Over Records" ... will he make the "eye see you" gesture at Joe?

"'Waste Of Time': NPR Refuses To Cover Biden Scandal" .. remove all public funding from NPR.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 23, 2020, 05:16:36 AM
It was availble here live in the wee hours. I haven't watched it. Afraid to look up or ask about it. How was it?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2020, 06:11:23 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 23, 2020, 05:16:36 AM
It was availble here live in the wee hours. I haven't watched it. Afraid to look up or ask about it. How was it?

Reports say … better than before, election commission/moderator was less incompetent.  Common tropes of the last 4 years, older and newer were touched upon.  Both candidates did a fare amount of deflection.  Biden didn't collapse (which I am afraid of, there are horrible theories about).  In American terms I would call the experience of the last month "corned beef hash".  Who is the corned beef and who is the potatoes (the other ingredient) depends on your politics ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 23, 2020, 08:56:21 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 23, 2020, 05:16:36 AM
It was availble here live in the wee hours. I haven't watched it. Afraid to look up or ask about it. How was it?
I watched about 25 min. of it, and most of that was to keep my wife company.  I find I get sick to my stomach watching tRUMP for more than a few min.  Orange kept his cool for the 'debate', but that just seemed to make the lies stand out more.  I think he actually will come out as worse today than yesterday.  All Biden had to do was not to lose, and he achieved that much anyway.  My wife braved the entire show, and feels the same way.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2020, 10:27:50 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 23, 2020, 08:56:21 AM
I watched about 25 min. of it, and most of that was to keep my wife company.  I find I get sick to my stomach watching tRUMP for more than a few min.  Orange kept his cool for the 'debate', but that just seemed to make the lies stand out more.  I think he actually will come out as worse today than yesterday.  All Biden had to do was not to lose, and he achieved that much anyway.  My wife braved the entire show, and feels the same way.

All Hillary had to do, was not lose ... but she did.  Flip a coin Nov 3.

"“I thought Zhao Biden did great at the debate”- CCP" ... enjoy your bicycles, Mao jackets and Zhao's Little Blue Book
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 23, 2020, 12:55:32 PM
Republicans put up anti-trump billboards in NC (https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/election/article246590693.html)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2020, 01:08:01 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 23, 2020, 12:55:32 PM
Republicans put up anti-trump billboards in NC (https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/election/article246590693.html)

Iran put out Proud Boy leaflets in Kansas
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 23, 2020, 01:42:42 PM
I was pleasantly surprised at the tone, but Trump was still his usual lying self. At least he didn't come off as a lounge act. I listed to it on KGO, and then listed to John Rothman and his callers talk about it for 2 1/2 hours. I may need an intervention...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 23, 2020, 03:17:04 PM
Hmm. So it was OK, as much as it can be.

But I'm not sure that 'the light tone' is good news from a different perspective. It means, he knows he could lose for real and while that's very good, it also means he is still acting out of 'character'. What is he capable of doing at a point he has nothing to lose after losing the elections? There is a huge difference between losing the first one and losing the second one, not to mention esp. in his position.

Because I hate to say it, but this is not going to end clean with Trump himself, am I wrong? Does it work that way? I wish it did. How many ways they have been trying to sue this man for the last 4 years? Democrats will try to reverse everything he did and they will jump the whole nine yards from international politics to his private life. And he's burned a lot of bridges too, somebody will have to pay the bill. Will republicans own up to him if he loses? To what end? Is he going to retire form politics? I don't know what to think about that but probably not. Maybe forced to?

Also people could start to talk when he steps down. Just what has been going with the staff the least would explode, imo. Then the officials. Who resigned in the last 4 years, when, why?  It feels like a period of 'Trump scandals' could start if he loses. I dunno. And it will radicalise politics and people more at both sides, deepen the adversity and invite more divisive policies. Sigh. oooff.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on October 23, 2020, 03:46:59 PM
  How any one with any common sense could vote for a corrupt career politician with dementia and a running mate who slept her way into office and is the "real" candidate baffles me. I kept waiting for willie brown to show up at one of their events, must have been paid off. Buy the way, people keep saying that trump is a liar, what specifically has he lied about?  TRUMP2020!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2020, 04:11:46 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 23, 2020, 03:17:04 PM
Hmm. So it was OK, as much as it can be.

But I'm not sure that 'the light tone' is good news from a different perspective. It means, he knows he could lose for real and while that's very good, it also means he is still acting out of 'character'. What is he capable of doing at a point he has nothing to lose after losing the elections? There is a huge difference between losing the first one and losing the second one, not to mention esp. in his position.

Because I hate to say it, but this is not going to end clean with Trump himself, am I wrong? Does it work that way? I wish it did. How many ways they have been trying to sue this man for the last 4 years? Democrats will try to reverse everything he did and they will jump the whole nine yards from international politics to his private life. And he's burned a lot of bridges too, somebody will have to pay the bill. Will republicans own up to him if he loses? To what end? Is he going to retire form politics? I don't know what to think about that but probably not. Maybe forced to?

Also people could start to talk when he steps down. Just what has been going with the staff the least would explode, imo. Then the officials. Who resigned in the last 4 years, when, why?  It feels like a period of 'Trump scandals' could start if he loses. I dunno. And it will radicalise politics and people more at both sides, deepen the adversity and invite more divisive policies. Sigh. oooff.

Obama reversed everything George W did?  No?  That isn't how things work here.  Both parties are paid actors, paid by the same people.  TV news in particular is a form of Hollywood infotainment ... based on real life, but not real.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2020, 04:14:41 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 23, 2020, 03:46:59 PM
  How any one with any common sense could vote for a corrupt career politician with dementia and a running mate who slept her way into office and is the "real" candidate baffles me. I kept waiting for willie brown to show up at one of their events, must have been paid off. Buy the way, people keep saying that trump is a liar, what specifically has he lied about?  TRUMP2020!

Welcome to the shark tank .. enjoy your swim ;-)  If I were voting, I would vote for Kanye West!  Hire a better entertainer for reboot of West Wing TV show ;-) ... Juliani can cameo as the TV ;-))

TDS is strong here, but there is at least one Trump supporter besides yourself.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2020, 04:16:31 PM
"Blockbuster Report Reveals How Biden Family Was Compromised By China" .. I thought Blockbuster was closed!

"San Francisco Tech CEO Emails 10 Million Customers Urging Them To Vote For Biden" ... use HAARP to induce earthquake now!

"Pennsylvania Supreme Court Rules Counties Can't Reject Mail-In Ballots When Signatures Don't Match" ... how can you get a signature from a dead person? ;-)

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 23, 2020, 04:16:47 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 23, 2020, 03:46:59 PM
  How any one with any common sense could vote for a corrupt career politician with dementia and a running mate who slept her way into office and is the "real" candidate baffles me. I kept waiting for willie brown to show up at one of their events, must have been paid off. Buy the way, people keep saying that trump is a liar, what specifically has he lied about?  TRUMP2020!

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/78024408/oh-great-another-genius.jpg)

The list of lies runs too long to possible cover thoroughly, but here are a number of his lies on one topic that has been the bane of his political career: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/10/trumps-lies-about-coronavirus/608647/
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2020, 04:23:54 PM
We are all coyotes here ;-))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on October 23, 2020, 05:04:15 PM
 If you take any thing that the "atlantic" prints as non-biased,then you must also watch CNN & MSNBC all day. Think about it, not having the facts about this once in a lifetime unknown disease, and knowingly lying about it are two entirely different things. Unlike the media and the democrats,who tried everything they could to undermine our response and cause panic, and refusing to do anything to stop the rioting in their shit-hole cities is pathetic.I live in wash. state and the response by our democrat mayor and governor to all of this bullshit rioting and "peaceful" protesting is border line criminal.If the democrats ever get in power,we can kiss our freedom and our grandkids futures goodbye. TRUMP2020
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 23, 2020, 05:17:22 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 23, 2020, 05:04:15 PMIf you take any thing that the "atlantic" prints as non-biased,then you must also watch CNN & MSNBC all day.
Where, pray tell, do you get your news from?  Probably something super non-biased and factual, given your dismissal of mainstream sources.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 23, 2020, 05:21:16 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 23, 2020, 03:46:59 PMBuy the way, people keep saying that trump is a liar, what specifically has he lied about?
For starters, he said that Obama founded ISIS (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/11/donald-trump-obama-founder-isis-most-valuable-player) (and tellingly, didn't back it up in any way)

Do you believe that?  Cause if you do, there's nothing you won't believe.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 23, 2020, 06:35:54 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 23, 2020, 03:46:59 PM
How any one with any common sense could vote for a corrupt career politician with dementia and a running mate who slept her way into office and is the "real" candidate baffles me.
Biden is a career politician, no doubt about it, but the rest of your accusations sound like things that are only known to you.  Where did you get that information?  From Baruch?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 23, 2020, 06:37:20 PM
We should be getting all of our news from Newsmax? FOX News? How about One America News?

There isn't a grain of salt big enough...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on October 23, 2020, 06:51:25 PM
 Trump didn't say obama founded isis, he said that he allowed it to spread to other countries and did nothing to stop it. Do you remember what obama did after seeing the video of that american getting be-headed? He went to the golf course.His response was pathetic.Go back and look at what was happening while he was in CUBA doing the "wave" at a baseball game. Obama was and is still a coward.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 23, 2020, 07:54:45 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 23, 2020, 06:51:25 PMTrump didn't say obama founded isis
He literally said those exact words several times, even when given the softball of "well, you really meant that the Iraq troop withdrawal set the stage for ISIS to seize territory, right?"

Maybe he just thought of it as a "punchier" version of what he actually meant (baffling as to why his supporters say that 'he tells it like it is' when they so often have to tie themselves into knots with 'what he really meant was...')

Let's assume that one is just Trump being Trump and saying stuff he doesn't really mean.

Here's 19,999 more (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/07/13/president-trump-has-made-more-than-20000-false-or-misleading-claims/).  Get cracking.

Here's a good one: "Dems want to shut your churches down, permanently" (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/oct/08/donald-trump/trump-falsely-claims-democrats-want-shut-your-chur/)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 23, 2020, 07:59:19 PM
Well, I'll give you one thing, Bob. It's brave of you to come out as a Trump supporter here. You're not alone, but I hope you came prepared.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 23, 2020, 08:02:23 PM
I wonder how Trump's supporters will feel after he's been in the office for another four years.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 23, 2020, 08:19:08 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 23, 2020, 07:59:19 PM
Well, I'll give you one thing, Bob. It's brave of you to come out as a Trump supporter here. You're not alone, but I hope you came prepared.
Could be brave.  Most likely too stupid to know the difference.  That is why he comes up with stupid stuff like--'what lies?'  Trump lies every time he speaks or twitters.  It has been documented.  But he simply does not care.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2020, 09:33:16 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 23, 2020, 08:02:23 PM
I wonder how Trump's supporters will feel after he's been in the office for another four years.

Looking forward to Pence for 8 years ;-) ... you had to ask ... don't ask unless you like the answer
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2020, 09:35:35 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 23, 2020, 05:04:15 PM
If you take any thing that the "atlantic" prints as non-biased,then you must also watch CNN & MSNBC all day. Think about it, not having the facts about this once in a lifetime unknown disease, and knowingly lying about it are two entirely different things. Unlike the media and the democrats,who tried everything they could to undermine our response and cause panic, and refusing to do anything to stop the rioting in their shit-hole cities is pathetic.I live in wash. state and the response by our democrat mayor and governor to all of this bullshit rioting and "peaceful" protesting is border line criminal.If the democrats ever get in power,we can kiss our freedom and our grandkids futures goodbye. TRUMP2020

I hear up in Seattle giant slugs get elected to office and get coding jobs at Microsoft ;-)

The "that is an unreliable news source" is a battle often waged here.  People fail to realize that confirmation bias works on anyone, not just the opponent side ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 23, 2020, 09:37:20 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 23, 2020, 07:54:45 PM
He literally said those exact words several times, even when given the softball of "well, you really meant that the Iraq troop withdrawal set the stage for ISIS to seize territory, right?"

Maybe he just thought of it as a "punchier" version of what he actually meant (baffling as to why his supporters say that 'he tells it like it is' when they so often have to tie themselves into knots with 'what he really meant was...')

Let's assume that one is just Trump being Trump and saying stuff he doesn't really mean.

Here's 19,999 more (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/07/13/president-trump-has-made-more-than-20000-false-or-misleading-claims/).  Get cracking.

Here's a good one: "Dems want to shut your churches down, permanently" (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/oct/08/donald-trump/trump-falsely-claims-democrats-want-shut-your-chur/)

No, atheists want to shut down churches.  But that comes with the ideological territory.  Since I have a "personal" relationship, if there is an institution or not is less important to me than it is to a pastor ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 23, 2020, 10:48:26 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 23, 2020, 08:02:23 PM
I wonder how Trump's supporters will feel after he's been in the office for another four years.

Same as they do now. They can't admit their leader is a clown. Plus, he gives them what they want. The bigoted rednecks couldn't have asked for a better President.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 24, 2020, 07:05:24 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 23, 2020, 08:19:08 PM
Could be brave.  Most likely too stupid to know the difference.  That is why he comes up with stupid stuff like--'what lies?'  Trump lies every time he speaks or twitters.  It has been documented.  But he simply does not care.
This reminds me of a scene in Stargate SG1.  Stargate Command discloses the classified secret of the stargate to key ambassadors of four other global powers asking them to keep the secret, because SG1 needs their help to save the world.  The ambassadors get pissed because they had not been told of the secret before. The Chinese diplomat says, "I am afraid we will have to disclose this information to the Chinese people immediately, because our government does not keep secrets from it's people.  Everyone in the room turns and just looks at him silently with wide eyed but otherwise blank expressions.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 24, 2020, 07:13:12 AM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 23, 2020, 05:04:15 PM
Think about it, not having the facts about this once in a lifetime unknown disease, and knowingly lying about it are two entirely different things.
Hey, easy now.  We are only trying to give Trump the benefit of the doubt by calling it a lie.  Otherwise we have to explain it with phrases like "incompetent know-it-all."  We work hard here to be as bipartisan as possible so please be polite.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 24, 2020, 09:05:50 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 23, 2020, 07:59:19 PMIt's brave of you to come out as a Trump supporter here.
Remember when bravery used to actually mean something?  Putting yourself in harm's way to protect others, protesting injustice knowing there's going to be a brutal authoritarian response.  Now it's defending everyone's favorite Sharper Image steak connaisseur against critcism by denying reality from the comforts of home via the internet.  So brave.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on October 24, 2020, 09:58:05 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 21, 2020, 02:47:45 PM
Trump: "nobody wants me", leaves event early (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/nobody-wants-me-trump-plays-sympathy-card-at-pennsylvania-rally-before-cutting-event-short-and-dancing-off-stage-to-ymca-b1200436.html)
And he's wrong as usual.  He has enough knuckledraggers out there that the election isn't the foregone conclusion that it should be.  For once, though, I agree with him in principle.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on October 24, 2020, 12:02:38 PM
  "America will NEVER become a socialist country"
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 24, 2020, 12:03:49 PM
Quote from: SGOS on October 24, 2020, 07:05:24 AM
This reminds me of a scene in Stargate SG1.  Stargate Command discloses the classified secret of the stargate to key ambassadors of four other global powers asking them to keep the secret, because SG1 needs their help to save the world.  The ambassadors get pissed because they had not been told of the secret before. The Chinese diplomat says, "I am afraid we will have to disclose this information to the Chinese people immediately, because our government does not keep secrets from it's people.  Everyone in the room turns and just looks at him silently with wide eyed but otherwise blank expressions.

China is master race!!  Are truth are inscrutibabble.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 24, 2020, 12:05:04 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 24, 2020, 09:05:50 AM
Remember when bravery used to actually mean something?  Putting yourself in harm's way to protect others, protesting injustice knowing there's going to be a brutal authoritarian response.  Now it's defending everyone's favorite Sharper Image steak connaisseur against critcism by denying reality from the comforts of home via the internet.  So brave.

Protesting injustice freedom fighters like Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan and Charles Manson?  Those were the days my boys ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 24, 2020, 12:06:02 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 24, 2020, 12:02:38 PM
  "America will NEVER become a socialist country"

Has been socialist since FDR ... please read a book sometime ;-))  All the Elites agree ... communism for me, fascism for you ;-(
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 24, 2020, 12:37:26 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 24, 2020, 12:02:38 PM
  "America will NEVER become a socialist country"

Ah. So you're one of those gullible people who think Democrats have a secret socialist agenda. How original.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 24, 2020, 12:37:59 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 24, 2020, 12:02:38 PM
  "America will NEVER become a socialist country"
I can't believe one guy is that stupid.  But we are and have been a country with many socialist programs.  And I seriously doubt you know what socialism is.  You only dislike it because your cult leader told you to.  It is clear you can't think so you need your orange monster (or one of his equally stupid minions) to 'think' for you.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 24, 2020, 12:57:21 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 24, 2020, 12:02:38 PM
  "America will NEVER become a socialist country"
Serious question here: do you really think the DNC wants the USA to be a socialist country?

Follow up: can you accurately differentiate communism, socialism, and a capitalist state with social safety nets?  Take a guess as to which one American liberals typically advocate for.  It's an open book quiz, so you can ask a friend if it's too difficult.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 24, 2020, 01:21:35 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 24, 2020, 12:37:26 PM
Ah. So you're one of those gullible people who think Democrats have a secret socialist agenda. How original.

Just more Russian propaganda, intended to create chaos. Seems to me there's enough of that already, but I guess there can never be enough for Putin and his crafty minions.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 24, 2020, 03:06:48 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 24, 2020, 12:37:59 PM
I can't believe one guy is that stupid.  But we are and have been a country with many socialist programs.  And I seriously doubt you know what socialism is.  You only dislike it because your cult leader told you to.  It is clear you can't think so you need your orange monster (or one of his equally stupid minions) to 'think' for you.

I dislike communism because I hate atheist Jews with big beards who don't properly support their families because they think they are a famous thinker ;-)  Trump has nothing to do with it, he isn't Jewish, not atheist, and has no beard ;-))

It is reasonable to call anyone who supports the linking of corporations to state power ... a fascist.  Both US parties are fascists in that sense.  Lobbying brings that.  A party that would abolish corporations is communist.

"The leader of the 1917 Russian Bolshevik Revolution, Vladimir Lenin, once said, “The goal of socialism is communism.”" ... defang corporations then kill them.

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini

People who didn't implement fascism (Mussolini did) or implement communism (Lenin did) are posers.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 24, 2020, 03:10:55 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 24, 2020, 12:57:21 PM
Serious question here: do you really think the DNC wants the USA to be a socialist country?

Follow up: can you accurately differentiate communism, socialism, and a capitalist state with social safety nets?  Take a guess as to which one American liberals typically advocate for.  It's an open book quiz, so you can ask a friend if it's too difficult.

The Elite want socialism aka the taxpayer supports the rich, and the Elite screw the taxpayers.  It is a form of asymmetrical predation by sociopaths.  The D/R duopoly do what the Elite tell them to, and the Deep State makes sure they do.

The more true this is, the closer you are to communism.  Why did Lenin support communism?  Because like Marx, he was a agitator writer who couldn't hold down an honest job.  This applies to Mussolini and Hitler too, but differently, in that they were originally agitator writers.  They supported Big Business and Big Government as a  partnership (see Krupps in Germany) ... they didn't call for Big Business to be abolished.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 24, 2020, 03:14:34 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 24, 2020, 12:37:26 PM
Ah. So you're one of those gullible people who think Democrats have a secret socialist agenda. How original.

Not secret, a public thing since FDR/Truman/JFK/LBJ.  After the Boomer hippies took over they took a bad liberal thing and made it into even worse neo-liberal thing.  Got a social net?  Some do, but access is based on political pull and superficial victimhood status.  The greatest beneficiaries of socialism (see 2008) were the Elite.  Before that, the women benefited from Civil Rights far more than any Black did.  LBJ made literal war on the Black family.  The neo-liberals like Biden continue that war.  They treat criminals as necessary, and as controlled opposition (Black shirts).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 25, 2020, 02:06:49 PM
"In Bizarre Freudian Slip, Biden Brags About Assembling "Most Extensive Voter Fraud Organization In History"" ... butterfly net guys chasing Biden

"Taibbi: With Hunter Biden Expose, Suppression Is A Bigger Scandal Than The Actual Story" ... Nixon didn't get in trouble for the Plumbers, but for covering it up

"Biden Boosters Dox Nuns For The Sin Of Attending Trump Rally" ... Biden is a very lapsed Catholic, the current Pope is a communist, and Biden supporters are often atheists

Current Hunter Biden leaks apparently coming from Chinese enemies of the CCP, who see the Bidens as friends of the CCP.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on October 25, 2020, 04:43:53 PM
 It's kind of hard to take seriously what someone says when their "name or I.D" for any web-site is a cartoon character or anime. I think, and this is just my opinion, that the reason that they're so angry and try to make things personal,is because politics is their "new" religion. Conseratives want to be able to raise their families and be left the hell alone. This country needs less government,not more. You can't tell us how to vote,how to think,or how to raise our families. The democrats want to control every aspect of our lives. If you truly believe that a corrupt career politican like
Biden, who is clearly not mentally fit to run the country is actually the one calling the shots, then there's there nothing much left to say, except to tell you to GROW UP. Stop playing video games, put down the damn phone for one day,and actually talk to other people.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mermaid on October 25, 2020, 04:48:38 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 25, 2020, 04:43:53 PM
Conseratives want to be able to raise their families and be left the hell alone.
Same for liberals.
QuoteYou can't tell us how to vote,how to think,or how to raise our families. The democrats want to control every aspect of our lives.

Same can be said for Republicans. We want to be able to marry who we want, to plan our families as we want, to follow the religion we want (or not) without having someone else's values forced upon us.

QuoteStop playing video games, put down the damn phone for one day,and actually talk to other people.
I agree. We white people need to listen to minorities. Really listen. And don't make assumptions that the world works the same for them as it does for us.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 25, 2020, 05:21:55 PM
"Outrage After WaPo Says To 'Treat Biden Leaks As Foreign Intel Operation - Even If They Probably Aren't'" ... Amazon (including Bezos of WaPo) and Walmart are Chinese intel operations.  Does Putin control China too?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 25, 2020, 06:24:57 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 25, 2020, 04:43:53 PM
It's kind of hard to take seriously what someone says when their "name or I.D" for any web-site is a cartoon character or anime. I think, and this is just my opinion, that the reason that they're so angry and try to make things personal,is because politics is their "new" religion. Conseratives want to be able to raise their families and be left the hell alone. This country needs less government,not more. You can't tell us how to vote,how to think,or how to raise our families. The democrats want to control every aspect of our lives. If you truly believe that a corrupt career politican like
Biden, who is clearly not mentally fit to run the country is actually the one calling the shots, then there's there nothing much left to say, except to tell you to GROW UP. Stop playing video games, put down the damn phone for one day,and actually talk to other people.
Ah.....the brain dead speatheth.  As usual, doesn't make any sense. Yeah, I know conservatives (is your orange monster really a 'conservative'.......aww, why ask when clearly the brain dead don't know what a conservative is..) just want to live as they want to---and to tell everybody else how they will live.  That's all. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 25, 2020, 06:28:14 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 25, 2020, 04:43:53 PMIt's kind of hard to take seriously what someone says when their "name or I.D" for any web-site is a cartoon character or anime.
(https://i.dlpng.com/static/png/1311101_thumb.png)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on October 25, 2020, 06:52:41 PM
We can do one better.

(https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/122745502_10221209635328039_3486461925010168642_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=U_kBtVCUMlYAX-HzatR&_nc_ht=scontent-bru2-1.xx&oh=07a961c95415aa985cab3edb30f16e35&oe=5FBCEE2D)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 25, 2020, 06:55:53 PM
My name is gibberish, so you know I'm telling the truth.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 25, 2020, 06:55:59 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on October 25, 2020, 06:52:41 PMWe can do one better.

(https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/122745502_10221209635328039_3486461925010168642_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=U_kBtVCUMlYAX-HzatR&_nc_ht=scontent-bru2-1.xx&oh=07a961c95415aa985cab3edb30f16e35&oe=5FBCEE2D)
LOL.  I'm sure he would've listened and actually answered the hard questions if only my avatar were more respectable!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 25, 2020, 06:56:10 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 25, 2020, 04:43:53 PMI think, and this is just my opinion, that the reason that they're so angry and try to make things personal,is because politics is their "new" religion.
You mean like following a charismatic leader who can do no wrong, insisting that Pi = 3 because that's what their holy book says, and sometimes even advocating violence against nonbelievers?

QuoteConseratives want to be able to raise their families and be left the hell alone.
Tell you what, when the Dems get power again, I'll vocally oppose any government law that infringes on reproductive rights, advocate for marijuana decriminalization, and push for immigration reform so the government doesn't "accidentally" separate parents and kids.

Live and let live, right?  Surely we agree on this, don't we?

QuoteThis country needs less government,not more.
So, you're against increases in military spending?  Homeland Security?  ICE?  TSA?  Space Force?  Conservatives sure do hate government expansion, right?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on October 25, 2020, 07:07:25 PM
 I have absolutely no desire to tell any body else how to live their life.Being an angry democrat or liberal(they are one in the same) must be very mentally and physically exhausting. Concern yourself with your own "little" opinions ,stop trying to rationalize what AOC and the rest of the "nutbags" say is best for our country, and live your lives to your own best abilitys. I couldn't care less what any ones opinions are of me(except my families) and won' t lose any sleep over any thing any one else says. "Facts don't care about your feelings". Vote with your heads, not your emotions. TRUMP 2020!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 25, 2020, 09:17:35 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 25, 2020, 07:07:25 PM
I have absolutely no desire to tell any body else how to live their life.
Clearly that is bullshit--just like your cult leader you seem to only be able to lie.  Your posts have been all about telling me what to believe and how to live.  If I had wanted any shit out of you I'd have simply squeezed your head.  Why not crawl back into your hole and concern yourself with fighting with your family. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 25, 2020, 11:11:54 PM
Quote from: SGOS on October 25, 2020, 06:55:53 PM
My name is gibberish, so you know I'm telling the truth.

That is bigoted against the "barbaric" tribes ... we don't know what they are saying, it sounds like bar-bar.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 25, 2020, 11:13:32 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 25, 2020, 07:07:25 PM
I have absolutely no desire to tell any body else how to live their life.Being an angry democrat or liberal(they are one in the same) must be very mentally and physically exhausting. Concern yourself with your own "little" opinions ,stop trying to rationalize what AOC and the rest of the "nutbags" say is best for our country, and live your lives to your own best abilitys. I couldn't care less what any ones opinions are of me(except my families) and won' t lose any sleep over any thing any one else says. "Facts don't care about your feelings". Vote with your heads, not your emotions. TRUMP 2020!

Some people are concerned, if every little atom isn't in its proper place, such people convince themselves they are G-d ... which is ironic if they are atheists too ;-))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 25, 2020, 11:15:51 PM
"Putin Defends Bidens, Becomes 'Visibly Irritated' When Asked About $3.5 Million Moscow Payment To Hunter" ... would have been even funnier if Putin had been this public in 2016 about supporting Hillary (which he was), because Hillary would have had to spin her head around 360 to sell the idea that Trump worked for Putin ;-))

"The Elephant In The Room: Florida School Revokes Parking Privileges Of Student With Trump Display On Truck" ... Commie Dems will revoke all driving privileges, it is a bicycle for you, comrade!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 25, 2020, 11:51:00 PM
Trump to donors: "very tough" to keep the Senate, "I think we're gonna take back the House" (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/trump-gop-senate-debate-tough-election-2020-b1326156.html)

What a weird thing to say.  The Senate is more of a toss-up than the House.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 26, 2020, 01:13:48 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 25, 2020, 04:43:53 PMIt's kind of hard to take seriously what someone says when their "name or I.D" for any web-site is a cartoon character or anime.

Hey, if you're too easily distracted by avatars and usernames to address the actual argument, that's on you.

Oops! I dropped my Pictures folder! Now every argument I make is invalid! Woe is me!

(https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fs3-ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com%2Fpsh-ex-ftnikkei-3937bb4%2Fimages%2F6%2F1%2F3%2F4%2F20764316-2-eng-GB%2FCropped-155786657620190514N%20Dragon%20Ball%20Broly_Data.jpg?source=nar-cms)

(https://attackofthefanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Sonic-Mania-Plus-Review-1.jpg)

(https://d2ofqe7l47306o.cloudfront.net/games/1920x1080/the-elder-scrolls-online-shadows-of-the-hist.jpg)

(https://cdn.europosters.eu/image/750/posters/my-hero-academia-i58328.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 26, 2020, 01:29:20 PM
Election map as of this morning:

(https://preview.redd.it/5qlr72a9ifv51.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=d101745ee6d3e4491bac9fa27c500306301ed4cc)

While it's not out of the question that Trump will win at least some of the toss-ups or close states like Texas, Ohio, and Georgia, he'd basically have to win them all to have a real shot at winning.  And while this race is far from over, it's looking much more favorable to Biden than it did just a couple months ago, especially in Pennsylvania (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/522718-biden-stretches-lead-over-trump-in-mich-wis-and-penn-poll) (Biden up by 5-10 points) and Biden currently has an 87% chance of winning the presidency on 538.

If Biden just holds what he's got, even if Trump wins in Ohio, Georgia, Texas, Florida, Arizona, and (this pains me to say it) North Carolina, Biden still edges out Trump.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on October 26, 2020, 02:09:22 PM
I saw a map that was all red today....but that was for coronavirus.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on October 26, 2020, 02:10:18 PM
Not gonna hold my breath, pessimistic about this election. It's in 2020, after all.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 26, 2020, 02:30:32 PM
A reminder from someone who has been apolitical, until this year, that Trump is, in fact, a criminal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d22Y7p3tER0&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 26, 2020, 02:35:42 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 25, 2020, 07:07:25 PM
"Facts don't care about your feelings". Vote with your heads, not your emotions. TRUMP 2020!

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51h5RSd0wFL.__AC_SX342_QL70_ML2_.jpg)

Facts are meaningless without context. People don't vote on facts, they vote on emotions, specifically fear. Fear of outsiders, fear of losing autonomy, fear of losing resources, fear of the future. Political parties and politicians of every stripe provide the context by packaging facts into a narrative to elicit fear and gain power. "Here is the danger. We will save you." Trump's greatest talent is getting an emotional response from people, positive and negative. If you want Trump to win, you can best help him by triggering people's fears. For example, I received this flyer in the mail today:

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/690c2bc878bc59ab8cd28763b9245575/cc6ac70b08fa4727-4c/s1280x1920/4774abc29afd7891a90f47a583e1d9a800a8b0ba.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 26, 2020, 03:19:04 PM
@Blackleaf ... the Mayan reptile guy is neat!

Trumps are crooks.  Vote for Clinton crime family, vote for Biden crime family (most voters have no self awareness, like a dream where you are a naked Emperor and can't wake up).

"Joe Biden Forgets Trump's Name Again, Claims He Is Running Against "George Bush"" ... running for President of nursing home

""Lizard Brains": NBC Analyst Meacham Attacks Trump Supporters Functioning On Primitive Limbic Systems" ... look in mirror, rat man.

"...thus, it’s only natural for the Chinese government to try to oust Trump from the presidency with all available means, including providing financial support to his neoliberal Democratic rivals..." ... enemy of my enemy is my friend?  Traitors for free fentanyl.

"I guess you can make ends meet until a bunch of crackheads led by Hunter Biden break in like a pack of ghouls."" ... just say no to drug and sex and money abuse

"NPR Reports On Biden Assassination Plot, Omits That Mastermind Was Pro-Islam, Bernie Bro" ... Marx Akbar!

"BLM Invades Affluent Portland Suburb, Demand Allegiance From Shoppers And Diners" ... around here such people would be scalped, and not for tickets

"George Soros Targets Black And Latino Voters As Trump Gains Newfound Support" ... not an American.  Son and heir to the evil empire is married to Adam Schiff's daughter.

"FAR LEFTISTS ATTACK CHILDREN AT "JEWS FOR TRUMP RALLY" IN NEW YORK, NO BIDEN WILL NOT STOP THIS" ... time to start circumcising Gentiles at the neck level ;-(  Of course, Jews invented the Left, so it is ironic.  We invented "self hating" which is so characteristic of today's Zeitgeist.  Baruch Spinoza (my first avatar) invented modernity.  If he comes back to life, he will want his invention back, because the Gentiles have screwed it up.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 26, 2020, 04:15:20 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 25, 2020, 04:43:53 PM
It's kind of hard to take seriously what someone says when their "name or I.D" for any web-site is a cartoon character or anime. I think, and this is just my opinion, that the reason that they're so angry and try to make things personal,is because politics is their "new" religion. Conseratives want to be able to raise their families and be left the hell alone. This country needs less government,not more. You can't tell us how to vote,how to think,or how to raise our families. The democrats want to control every aspect of our lives. If you truly believe that a corrupt career politican like
Biden, who is clearly not mentally fit to run the country is actually the one calling the shots, then there's there nothing much left to say, except to tell you to GROW UP. Stop playing video games, put down the damn phone for one day,and actually talk to other people.

Quote from: bob nelson on October 25, 2020, 07:07:25 PM
I have absolutely no desire to tell any body else how to live their life.Being an angry democrat or liberal(they are one in the same) must be very mentally and physically exhausting. Concern yourself with your own "little" opinions ,stop trying to rationalize what AOC and the rest of the "nutbags" say is best for our country, and live your lives to your own best abilitys. I couldn't care less what any ones opinions are of me(except my families) and won' t lose any sleep over any thing any one else says. "Facts don't care about your feelings". Vote with your heads, not your emotions. TRUMP 2020!

- You do not to know the meaning of the concept you are spinning your bullshit on (yeah, conservative doesn't mean what you think it does),
- claiming a group of people is 'trying to control all aspects' of another group's life in the most diverse country on the planet with a population of 325 million (What does that even mean?),
- then telling perfect strangers you just meet online how to think and live their lives in a passive agressive manner while calling them angry,
- believing/claiming that they are planing to do this via installing a socialist system where the economy runs on hardcore capitalism  dominating the global scale,
- after deliberatly coming out as Trumpster in a democrat leaning forum, claiming that you don't care about anybody's opinion, 
- talking about 'facts vs feelings' (Are you people allowed to use the word 'fact'? If he loses, he is going to listen to the scientists. Becareful,lol.)
- then talking about who is to be taken seriously or not according to forum avatars... oyy,lol. I really do not know what to say to this.

This is what you came up with by using your head and not emotions? You are really bad at projecting.   

Forget every bullshit you threw up there... I don't think you'll get this but you -actually your lot, because this is learned- are so stupid, you mistake apathy for anger. Worst mass projection ever. And you talk about the real world, going out talking to people...lol. These gaming, anime watching, 'cartoon' avatar millenials are going to eat your culture alive. You know that. Isn't that why you are a conservative?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 26, 2020, 04:27:44 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on October 26, 2020, 02:10:18 PM
Not gonna hold my breath, pessimistic about this election. It's in 2020, after all.

Yeah, it feels that way a little. But I'm not pessimistic overall in general because of the protests and riots after Floyd's death. As I said before, it's alive! 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 26, 2020, 04:47:42 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on October 26, 2020, 02:10:18 PMNot gonna hold my breath, pessimistic about this election. It's in 2020, after all.
I look at it like this, you can only roll a one so many times before you roll a 5 or a 6.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 26, 2020, 05:55:27 PM
"Democrats are trying to stack the courts in their favor!" - Republicans as they rush to push a far right Republican into the Supreme Court, days before the election
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 26, 2020, 05:59:01 PM
BTW, Munch, don't think we don't notice you liking every right-leaning post in these forums. Liking a post claiming that cartoon avatars invalidate a person's arguments is quite strange coming from someone with an avatar that looks like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/pitAXCS.jpg)

Cartoon orc = your opinion is invalid
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 26, 2020, 06:28:00 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 26, 2020, 05:55:27 PM
"Democrats are trying to stack the courts in their favor!" - Republicans as they rush to push a far right Republican into the Supreme Court, days before the election
Technically, as people are voting.  And voting to decide the guy who appoints the Supreme Court justices, no less.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on October 26, 2020, 06:55:24 PM
 Jesus christ, uh, I mean hail satan, people on this thread take way to much of this stuff personally. This really is your religion now isn't it? The election is a week from now. All of this screaming and kicking will hopefully be over and people can be civil to each other again. I guess what I read is true, most atheists are liberals ,but I didn't expect this much name-calling and temper tantrums. I might be the only one on this web-site that feels this way, but that's okay. As I've gotten older, my feelings on religion and politics have changed to rely on my self and my family more and less on  outside factors. I probably would have to define my self as a "satanist" now. I truly COULD NOT CARE LESS what any bodies opinion is a me. This country is fractured and needs to be repaired. I don't see any of the democrats offering any thing but venom and hatred of the opposition,and nothing short of revolution is good enough. I'm too old to care what other people think. I  do however think a lot of people on this site need to grow-up and get over your selves. HAIL SATAN.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 26, 2020, 06:57:19 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 26, 2020, 06:55:24 PM
Jesus christ, uh, I mean hail satan, people on this thread take way to much of this stuff personally. This really is your religion now isn't it? The election is a week from now. All of this screaming and kicking will hopefully be over and people can be civil to each other again. I guess what I read is true, most atheists are liberals ,but I didn't expect this much name-calling and temper tantrums. I might be the only one on this web-site that feels this way, but that's okay. As I've gotten older, my feelings on religion and politics have changed to rely on my self and my family more and less on  outside factors. I probably would have to define my self as a "satanist" now. I truly COULD NOT CARE LESS what any bodies opinion is a me. This country is fractured and needs to be repaired. I don't see any of the democrats offering any thing but venom and hatred of the opposition,and nothing short of revolution is good enough. I'm too old to care what other people think. I  do however think a lot of people on this site need to grow-up and get over your selves. HAIL SATAN.

Do you have anything to offer in the way of...I dunno...arguments? Facts? Data? No? Just projection and ad hominem fallacies? Okay.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 26, 2020, 07:35:52 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 26, 2020, 05:55:27 PM
"Democrats are trying to stack the courts in their favor!" - Republicans as they rush to push a far right Republican into the Supreme Court, days before the election
Plus tRump has installed about 200 repub/trumpies to the bench already.  And now that he has stripped the civil service of using merit to choose workers, trumpies now will be installed at every turn and in every bureau. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 26, 2020, 08:05:42 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 26, 2020, 05:55:27 PM
"Democrats are trying to stack the courts in their favor!" - Republicans as they rush to push a far right Republican into the Supreme Court, days before the election

Every judge at every level.  Part of politics.  Law isn't neutral, it is partisan.  It can be blind, in a bad way.  So much for equality under law, or professional ethics.  Help your friends, screw your enemies, is the old old way.  Indicative is that most politicians have a law school background ;-(
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 26, 2020, 08:06:47 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 26, 2020, 06:55:24 PM
Jesus christ, uh, I mean hail satan, people on this thread take way to much of this stuff personally. This really is your religion now isn't it? The election is a week from now. All of this screaming and kicking will hopefully be over and people can be civil to each other again. I guess what I read is true, most atheists are liberals ,but I didn't expect this much name-calling and temper tantrums. I might be the only one on this web-site that feels this way, but that's okay. As I've gotten older, my feelings on religion and politics have changed to rely on my self and my family more and less on  outside factors. I probably would have to define my self as a "satanist" now. I truly COULD NOT CARE LESS what any bodies opinion is a me. This country is fractured and needs to be repaired. I don't see any of the democrats offering any thing but venom and hatred of the opposition,and nothing short of revolution is good enough. I'm too old to care what other people think. I  do however think a lot of people on this site need to grow-up and get over your selves. HAIL SATAN.

Usually politics is taken personally, unfortunately.  People are too hot ... pssst ... about it.  Fortunately other topics draw less fire.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 26, 2020, 08:07:42 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 26, 2020, 06:57:19 PM
Do you have anything to offer in the way of...I dunno...arguments? Facts? Data? No? Just projection and ad hominem fallacies? Okay.

Karl Marx is god, meth is an aphrodisiac (per Hunter Biden)?

Even if Munch didn't like any of my posts, I would still respect him (given the many posts of his I have read).  A really decent guy.  In the political arena, few here are even human.  Even though he is British and gay, that is no reason to expect he will support all those Californicating political ideas.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 26, 2020, 08:14:03 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 26, 2020, 07:35:52 PM
Plus tRump has installed about 200 repub/trumpies to the bench already.  And now that he has stripped the civil service of using merit to choose workers, trumpies now will be installed at every turn and in every bureau.

Civil service was instituted because President Garfield got assassinated interviewing a job candidate.  As it is, nearly 5000 positions, some just sugar coating jobs, are exchanged every change of party in the WH.  One of the most political are plum ambassador jobs for wealthy couples.  The other system is the "spoils system", which became too hard to handle as the Federal government became much larger because of the Civil War.  Political job applicants were swarming Lincoln's house in Springfield IL, after the election, but before he was inaugurated.

"Recorded Biden Operatives Begging Him To Stay Quiet, Set To Release Tues" ... deaf ornery old men don't cooperate

""I Was Born For That": Hillary Clinton Still Salty 4 Years Later" ... still wants her coronation as Evil Queen
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 26, 2020, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 26, 2020, 06:55:24 PM
This country is fractured and needs to be repaired.

I agree but I'm not sure how we get there. America's response to this pandemic has been very discouraging. Often in the past Americans banded together when faced with a threat or disaster but that didn't happen this time. I wish Trump or Congress could be blamed but what is going on in America right now is deep, systemic, sociological, and psychological. This alienation and animosity are multifactorial and can't be fixed simply by electing a new president. That said, Trump has demonstrated no ability to build bridges or de-escalate conflicting factions.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 27, 2020, 05:25:03 AM
Respect doesn't work that way, Baruch. It is not some sort of an etherial subtsance that naturally accumulates around people who are generally defined as 'decent' according to some norms in a given society but some people refuse just to spite. You are confusing the regard we are all required to show each other to exist in peace; to achieve basic tenets of civilisation with the respect which is based on some sort of admiration for some ability, quality or accomplishment. We don't live in the same building. We have come here to express our opinions and find people who think like us.

Nobody disrespects a member in this forum because of their life style, sexual orientation, nationality OR for their political conviction as long as they can build an argument for it. We have/had every kind of people here. Hell, we had a self proclaimed pedophile, a dog fucker in this forum and they've all lasted very long but left or banned because they kept bringing those issues at every opportunity which majorty see as taboos. Not to mention it is illegal. And many other ordinary kind of crackpots, we all are in that category in some way.

This man or that woman, nelson mandela or gandhi...if somebody gets into a political thread and claim that Democrats are trying to build a socialist America, nobody with two brain cells to rub together will respect them. I'm not throwing my hair and saying 'hmph, I don't!', I'm saying, I can't. Because it is absurd. Because we need a modicum of rationality to interact. I can't respect anti-vaxers. I can't respect anyone who claims there is no systematic racism and white supremacism anywhere around the world. I can't respect flat earthers. I can't respect people who think vampires and zombies can exist, because you know 'we don't really know after all'. I can't respect people who decide their lives according to horoscopes, tarot cards, angel quantum something, self-help, sending energy to the universe. Do you think they are not decent people?

But while there is a camp with its entire existance in the country's history as a political wing based on principles like telling women what to do with their bodies, telling people what kind of tv shows they should make and watch or wihich ones they should cancel, what kind of music they should listen, who they should love and marry, how many children they should have, systematically killing people out of their ethnic and religous groups (mostly because they cover their heads though, they can't tell the difference between a sikh and a muslim or a turban and a burkha), esp. immigrants IN the BIGGEST IMMIGRANT COUNTRY ON EARTH and we have these fucking morons dropping one after another telling people that they're angry snowflakes and all they do is throwing tantrums all around. These are just a few examples. Republicans didn't need Trump to begin with anyway.

'Thisz ccountry isz fracturrred.' No shit. It wasn't fractured 20 years ago? 30 years ago? 50 years ago? All this dropped down from sky just like that? Which political wing and ideologies have to rely on devisive policies and fractures? Which fucking moron has carried this to a new dimension, abused almost every issue the country and the world has using a 12 year old's vernacular with a retarded, psychopathic demeanor?

Munch or before pr... Think about their lives and circumstances. In a mass scale, the worst absurd comedy of all times. The American muslim kid who dropped several weeks ago? The same kind of moronity.

Yeah, respect doesn't work that way.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 27, 2020, 08:58:01 AM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 26, 2020, 06:55:24 PM
Jesus christ, uh, I mean hail satan, people on this thread take way to much of this stuff personally. This really is your religion now isn't it? The election is a week from now. All of this screaming and kicking will hopefully be over and people can be civil to each other again. I guess what I read is true, most atheists are liberals ,but I didn't expect this much name-calling and temper tantrums. I might be the only one on this web-site that feels this way, but that's okay. As I've gotten older, my feelings on religion and politics have changed to rely on my self and my family more and less on  outside factors. I probably would have to define my self as a "satanist" now. I truly COULD NOT CARE LESS what any bodies opinion is a me. This country is fractured and needs to be repaired. I don't see any of the democrats offering any thing but venom and hatred of the opposition,and nothing short of revolution is good enough. I'm too old to care what other people think. I  do however think a lot of people on this site need to grow-up and get over your selves. HAIL SATAN.
Project much?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 27, 2020, 11:02:02 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on October 26, 2020, 09:58:43 PM
I agree but I'm not sure how we get there. America's response to this pandemic has been very discouraging. Often in the past Americans banded together when faced with a threat or disaster but that didn't happen this time. I wish Trump or Congress could be blamed but what is going on in America right now is deep, systemic, sociological, and psychological. This alienation and animosity are multifactorial and can't be fixed simply by electing a new president. That said, Trump has demonstrated no ability to build bridges or de-escalate conflicting factions.

How can we fix this, as long as Democrats exist, as long as Republicans exist?  Y'all are struggling for power and wealth, usually ill got.  How to bridge two competing crime families?  Thompson machine guns out of the window of a Packard touring car.  There is no Chicago Kirk from Star Fleet to make us cool it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 27, 2020, 11:04:12 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 27, 2020, 05:25:03 AM
Respect doesn't work that way, Baruch. It is not some sort of an etherial subtsance that naturally accumulates around people who are generally defined as 'decent' according to some norms in a given society but some people refuse just to spite. You are confusing the regard we are all required to show each other to exist in peace; to achieve basic tenets of civilisation with the respect which is based on some sort of admiration for some ability, quality or accomplishment. We don't live in the same building. We have come here to express our opinions and find people who think like us.

Nobody disrespects a member in this forum because of their life style, sexual orientation, nationality OR for their political conviction as long as they can build an argument for it. We have/had every kind of people here. Hell, we had a self proclaimed pedophile, a dog fucker in this forum and they've all lasted very long but left or banned because they kept bringing those issues at every opportunity which majorty see as taboos. Not to mention it is illegal. And many other ordinary kind of crackpots, we all are in that category in some way.

This man or that woman, nelson mandela or gandhi...if somebody gets into a political thread and claim that Democrats are trying to build a socialist America, nobody with two brain cells to rub together will respect them. I'm not throwing my hair and saying 'hmph, I don't!', I'm saying, I can't. Because it is absurd. Because we need a modicum of rationality to interact. I can't respect anti-vaxers. I can't respect anyone who claims there is no systematic racism and white supremacism anywhere around the world. I can't respect flat earthers. I can't respect people who think vampires and zombies can exist, because you know 'we don't really know after all'. I can't respect people who decide their lives according to horoscopes, tarot cards, angel quantum something, self-help, sending energy to the universe. Do you think they are not decent people?

But while there is a camp with its entire existance in the country's history as a political wing based on principles like telling women what to do with their bodies, telling people what kind of tv shows they should make and watch or wihich ones they should cancel, what kind of music they should listen, who they should love and marry, how many children they should have, systematically killing people out of their ethnic and religous groups (mostly because they cover their heads though, they can't tell the difference between a sikh and a muslim or a turban and a burkha), esp. immigrants IN the BIGGEST IMMIGRANT COUNTRY ON EARTH and we have these fucking morons dropping one after another telling people that they're angry snowflakes and all they do is throwing tantrums all around. These are just a few examples. Republicans didn't need Trump to begin with anyway.

'Thisz ccountry isz fracturrred.' No shit. It wasn't fractured 20 years ago? 30 years ago? 50 years ago? All this dropped down from sky just like that? Which political wing and ideologies have to rely on devisive policies and fractures? Which fucking moron has carried this to a new dimension, abused almost every issue the country and the world has using a 12 year old's vernacular with a retarded, psychopathic demeanor?

Munch or before pr... Think about their lives and circumstances. In a mass scale, the worst absurd comedy of all times. The American muslim kid who dropped several weeks ago? The same kind of moronity.

Yeah, respect doesn't work that way.

Deconstructing Gramsci and Trotsky is ... burning.  Sorry.  You are the only person (per semiotics) who knows what a word means?  Per Humpty Dumpty ...

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to meanâ€"neither more nor less." "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be masterâ€"that's all."

George Orwell didn't invent anything that Lewis Carroll didn't think of first.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 27, 2020, 11:51:41 AM
Quote from: Baruch on October 27, 2020, 11:04:12 AM
George Orwell didn't invent anything that Lewis Carroll didn't think of first.

Wrong Lewis. George Orwell didn't invent anything. He wrote brilliant fiction on what should be righfully creditted to Lewis Mumford; his critique of both ideologies at the time which he understood and agreed. Mumford has been exiled a couple of times, at least. They hated what he was saying. Except a very few smart men.   

There is a good book on his work related to his personal life, his influence as one of the 5 sociologists from the same generation, all of them born in 1895, but I can't remember the book's name. Something printed in the late 90s. Mumford is a man who saw and talked about the cold war period in early 1930s as far as I get. If memory serves right, they become friends with Orwell for 4-5 years ? and then seperate around when the war breaks out and never see each other again. Then Orwell dies a short time later. He died very young.     
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 27, 2020, 12:08:06 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on October 26, 2020, 09:58:43 PM
I agree but I'm not sure how we get there. America's response to this pandemic has been very discouraging. Often in the past Americans banded together when faced with a threat or disaster but that didn't happen this time. I wish Trump or Congress could be blamed but what is going on in America right now is deep, systemic, sociological, and psychological. This alienation and animosity are multifactorial and can't be fixed simply by electing a new president. That said, Trump has demonstrated no ability to build bridges or de-escalate conflicting factions.

In your false memory.  Remember Korea, Vietnam, race riots?  Maybe among White college graduates that like the same recreational drugs, they all have the same group think.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 27, 2020, 12:35:58 PM
Quote from: Baruch on October 27, 2020, 12:08:06 PM
In your false memory.  Remember Korea, Vietnam, race riots?  Maybe among White college graduates that like the same recreational drugs, they all have the same group think.

1) I never said what we are experiencing is unprecedented. I didn't say Americans always pulled together. I said we haven't pulled together during the pandemic and the problems we are currently experiencing aren't the result of one factor.

2) I don't know how to fix America's problems.

3) I don't drink alcohol and I've never used recreational drugs.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 27, 2020, 12:37:24 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 27, 2020, 11:51:41 AM
Wrong Lewis. George Orwell didn't invent anything. He wrote brilliant fiction on what should be righfully creditted to Lewis Mumford; his critique of both ideologies at the time which he understood and agreed. Mumford has been exiled a couple of times, at least. They hated what he was saying. Except a very few smart men.   

There is a good book on his work related to his personal life, his influence as one of the 5 sociologists from the same generation, all of them born in 1895, but I can't remember the book's name. Something printed in the late 90s. Mumford is a man who saw and talked about the cold war period in early 1930s as far as I get. If memory serves right, they become friends with Orwell for 4-5 years ? and then seperate around when the war breaks out and never see each other again. Then Orwell dies a short time later. He died very young.   

Lewis Carroll lived decades before Lewis Mumford.  So what inverted Derrida leads to concluding Lewis Carroll is dependent on Lewis Mumford ;-)  Yes, George Orwell was contemporary with Lewis Mumford.  Mumford influenced a lot of people, though George Orwell isn't directly mentioned in Wiki.  Both were progenitors of neo-liberalism.  Thanks for sharing this, I now have another mid-20th century ideological monument to learn more about ;-)

I almost never drink, but I will down a few next week.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 27, 2020, 01:55:58 PM
Quote from: Baruch on October 27, 2020, 12:37:24 PM
Lewis Carroll lived decades before Lewis Mumford.

And? You think this works like first born, first served?

QuoteMumford influenced a lot of people, though George Orwell isn't directly mentioned in Wiki.  Both were progenitors of neo-liberalism.

Yes, he is not mentioned in wiki. This is an assumption made by a researcher. A reasonable one made by tracking Mumford's work back/around to their encounter. There isn't anyone else and we know they've met. If you read about their lives you'd get the climate and their situation. It is pretty depressing. It seems Mumford had had a bad life. He's been pushed out from everywhere, exiled, his work edited all over, they worked behind of his back not to publish anything he wrote...etc. But you need to read about a few people from the same generation to get that. Stop sticking an -ism on him.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 27, 2020, 03:15:47 PM
Wiki has a huge article on Orwell though the one on Mumford is considerable.  I guess Orwell was even more influential on "letters" in the 20th century.  If this influence can be shown, it should be added to the article.

---

"Hunter Biden Confesses Partnership With China 'Spy Chief' -- Fumes After He And Joe Named As Criminal Witnesses" ... best not to lie when under oath, they may actually punish that

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on October 27, 2020, 05:10:29 PM
 Like I said, this has become a religion for some people. Respect other people's opinions and live your life to the best ability that you can. I came to this web-site (atheist forum) to be able to talk to others about our common beliefs (or un-beliefs). Any one that gets that angry about any thing and makes things personal or becomes un-hinged about their political leanings should take a breath and remember, we're ALL just pee-ons in this world. In the grand scheme of things, we all just live to die. And we will all die alone.  We're all insignificate.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 27, 2020, 05:31:41 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 27, 2020, 05:10:29 PM
Any one that gets that angry about any thing and makes things personal or becomes un-hinged about their political leanings should take a breath
I agree.  Does this apply to you too, or are you exempt?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 27, 2020, 06:17:36 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 27, 2020, 05:10:29 PM
Like I said, this has become a religion for some people. Respect other people's opinions and live your life to the best ability that you can. I came to this web-site (atheist forum) to be able to talk to others about our common beliefs (or un-beliefs). Any one that gets that angry about any thing and makes things personal or becomes un-hinged about their political leanings should take a breath and remember, we're ALL just pee-ons in this world. In the grand scheme of things, we all just live to die. And we will all die alone.  We're all insignificate.

Common no-religion beliefs are cool.  Other beliefs not so cool.  I hope you are making progress on your reconciliation of what you now believe.

I agree that anger is silly, that taking entertainment (and politics is like sport for most people, we are non-participating fans) too seriously is sad.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 27, 2020, 06:22:26 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 27, 2020, 05:10:29 PM
Like I said, this has become a religion for some people. Respect other people's opinions and live your life to the best ability that you can. I came to this web-site (atheist forum) to be able to talk to others about our common beliefs (or un-beliefs). Any one that gets that angry about any thing and makes things personal or becomes un-hinged about their political leanings should take a breath and remember, we're ALL just pee-ons in this world. In the grand scheme of things, we all just live to die. And we will all die alone.  We're all insignificate.
Good advice--why don't you try living it. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 27, 2020, 08:29:57 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 27, 2020, 05:10:29 PM
Like I said, this has become a religion for some people. Respect other people's opinions and live your life to the best ability that you can. I came to this web-site (atheist forum) to be able to talk to others about our common beliefs (or un-beliefs). Any one that gets that angry about any thing and makes things personal or becomes un-hinged about their political leanings should take a breath and remember, we're ALL just pee-ons in this world. In the grand scheme of things, we all just live to die. And we will all die alone.  We're all insignificate.

I'm not angry. I just think you have bad arguments. Or more accurately, bad excuses for not even trying to give any arguments. At least, I think you do. You don't an avatar, so I don't know how seriously I can take you.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 28, 2020, 03:40:09 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 27, 2020, 08:29:57 PM
I'm not angry. I just think you have bad arguments. Or more accurately, bad excuses for not even trying to give any arguments. At least, I think you do. You don't an avatar, so I don't know how seriously I can take you.

Good arguments, like how Trump is Putin's lover?

"President Trump's Campaign Website Was Just Hacked" ... most executives won't pay real money for real IT security ;-(
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 28, 2020, 04:22:07 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 27, 2020, 08:29:57 PM
I'm not angry. I just think you have bad arguments. Or more accurately, bad excuses for not even trying to give any arguments.
I think he has a hard time understanding who's angry.  There maybe some people in the forum who are actually angry, because he came in with a metaphorical baseball bat ranting on how vile liberals are.  It's like he's exercising his right to be completely uncivil to a group he expresses hatred toward and expects people to applaud his keen insight.  His problem may just be with his socialization skills.  Being told he's acting like a jerk, doesn't necessarily mean people are angry at him, and since this made him angry, maybe he's the one who needs to chill out.





Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 28, 2020, 08:57:35 AM
Quote from: SGOS on October 28, 2020, 04:22:07 AM
I think he has a hard time understanding who's angry.  There maybe some people in the forum who are actually angry, because he came in with a metaphorical baseball bat ranting on how vile liberals are.  It's like he's exercising his right to be completely uncivil to a group he expresses hatred toward and expects people to applaud his keen insight.  His problem may just be with his socialization skills.  Being told he's acting like a jerk, doesn't necessarily mean people are angry at him, and since this made him angry, maybe he's the one who needs to chill out.
Exactly.
And if what he says is true about his relationship with his family, he seems to make it a habit of pissing off those around him, as well.  He seems to like to piss people off--it's his nature.  Maybe he should just stick to listening to his death metal stuff and leave the rest of the world alone.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on October 28, 2020, 11:28:32 AM
Say good bye to the economy for a while. Huge Layoffs, Covid-19 Europe shutdown, US record virus new cases, no stimulus S&P down about 5% in 2 days...I may buy some more. Not good for incumbents a week out.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 28, 2020, 11:34:14 AM
Quote from: Cassia on October 28, 2020, 11:28:32 AM
Say good bye to the economy for a while. Huge Layoffs, Covid-19 Europe shutdown, US record virus new cases, no stimulus S&P down about 5% in 2 days...I may buy some more. Not good for incumbents a week out.

We should have had mandatory retirement of all incumbents after 12 years in office, 8 years for President.  Two terms max, unless in the House (max six terms).  Our politicians are entitled Caligulas.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 28, 2020, 01:15:48 PM
Quote from: Cassia on October 28, 2020, 11:28:32 AM
Say good bye to the economy for a while. Huge Layoffs, Covid-19 Europe shutdown, US record virus new cases, no stimulus S&P down about 5% in 2 days...I may buy some more. Not good for incumbents a week out.
My parents say it's going to be a mess for most of next year as well.  Not good whoever takes office, either.  Lots of messes big and small to clean up - and people have a bad habit of blaming the stench on the nearest person, not necessarily the offender.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 28, 2020, 02:28:43 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHP3EFvD8i4
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 28, 2020, 03:40:02 PM
"Fun" fact about those rape allegations: Trump tried to get the Justice Dept to legally defend him (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/27/nyregion/jean-carroll-trump-rape-lawsuit.html) (basically subsidizing his own legal defense and shielding him from legal liability).  The State Department apparently cited a law designed to protect federal employees against litigation stemming from the performance of their duties.  How the judge resisted bludgeoning the Trump lackey to death with a law book, I'll never understand.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 28, 2020, 04:49:34 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 28, 2020, 03:40:02 PM
"Fun" fact about those rape allegations: Trump tried to get the Justice Dept to legally defend him (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/27/nyregion/jean-carroll-trump-rape-lawsuit.html) (basically subsidizing his own legal defense and shielding him from legal liability).  The State Department apparently cited a law to designed to protect federal employees against litigation stemming from the performance of their duties.  How the judge resisted bludgeoning the Trump lackey to death with a law book, I'll never understand.

Every male is a rapist.  Not just Bill or Joe.  This is why women want to castrate all of us men ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on October 28, 2020, 06:17:52 PM
 Wow,great grammar there. For those who judge someone's arguments by the quality of an avatar that they don't use, sarcasm or not, that's sad. I'm too old to get angry or lose any sleep over what other people say in this thread. Get rid of your  anger in some other way, because I think if you keep it  up like this after the election is over, you might end-up alone and bitter. I will continue to listen to black-metal and spend time with our grandkids. That makes me smile, not arguing politics on an atheist web-site. Get off my lawn!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on October 28, 2020, 06:22:48 PM
Trump left his mobs to fend for themselves. Omaha Beach on D-Day, II.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 28, 2020, 06:38:19 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 28, 2020, 06:22:48 PM
Trump left his mobs to fend for themselves. Omaha Beach on D-Day, II.

The Dems are anti-American.  They are the Germans at Omaha Beach.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 28, 2020, 06:41:42 PM
Homeland Security official Miles Taylor published an opinion piece and a book over a year ago critical of Trump, but he did so anonymously because he wanted to limit Trump to a defense of the accusations, rather than letting Trump turn the issue into an Ad Hominem attack on Taylor.  Many presidents would use the fallacy, but with Trump it would be a forgone conclusion. Trump's team tried to find out where the attack came from, but were unable to find out who it was, until this week when Taylor took credit for his works.

Whether this was the correct approach or not, I have to admit I enjoyed the idea of frustrating Trump just because he's Trump.  But the point of this post is little more than an opportunity to post a quote from Taylor's writing that most closely describes the way I saw Trump doing his job from outside of Washington.  Taylor described Mr. Trump as a

Quote“12-year-old in an air traffic control tower, pushing the buttons of government indiscriminately, indifferent to the planes skidding across the runway.”
That could have been a political cartoon on the front page of the Times, but it was done in writing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/28/us/politics/miles-taylor-anonymous-trump.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20201028&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=129705843&segment_id=42633&user_id=33a2a6e6868fd65c48b0f219d16ed7c2
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 28, 2020, 06:43:54 PM
The government has many levels and many factions.  It can't speak with one voice.  Do right or do wrong, criticism will come every day.  The average human doesn't know right from wrong anyway.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 28, 2020, 06:47:24 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 28, 2020, 06:17:52 PM
I'm too old to get angry or lose any sleep over what other people say in this thread. Get rid of your  anger in some other way.
Still projecting.   Also, you're boring.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 28, 2020, 06:48:53 PM
Quote from: SGOS on October 28, 2020, 06:47:24 PM
Still projecting.   Also, you're boring.

I need to give him lessons.  You aren't teaching him, just berating him.  Not a good teacher at all.

"In some states we will have final results almost immediately, but in other states counting could take quite a few weeks..." ... just like the 19th century
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 28, 2020, 07:09:25 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 28, 2020, 06:17:52 PMI will continue to listen to black-metal and spend time with our grandkids. That makes me smile, not arguing politics on an atheist web-site.
So don't.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 28, 2020, 07:21:43 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 28, 2020, 06:17:52 PM
Wow,great grammar there. For those who judge someone's arguments by the quality of an avatar that they don't use, sarcasm or not, that's sad. I'm too old to get angry or lose any sleep over what other people say in this thread. Get rid of your  anger in some other way, because I think if you keep it  up like this after the election is over, you might end-up alone and bitter. I will continue to listen to black-metal and spend time with our grandkids. That makes me smile, not arguing politics on an atheist web-site. Get off my lawn!
Project much?!  You are the angry one.  And you are on our lawn, not yours.  Why are you on this site?  You only make pronouncements--nothing close to a discussion or dialogue.  Why are you so hung up on avatar's?  Seems you are frightened of them.  You write like a 16 year old with problems that needs a shrink.  You will probably not advance much more than that--16.  What a weak-kneed dolt you are. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on October 28, 2020, 07:32:12 PM
Walter Mondale’s 1984 concession to Ronald Reagan: “The choice was made peacefully. And although I would have rather won tonight, we rejoice in our democracy. We rejoice in the freedom of a wonderful people. And we accept their verdict.”
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on October 28, 2020, 09:43:06 PM
So in one week, about half the country will be bitterly disappointed that "evil" won.  Yes, both sides have a significant portion that sees the other side as actually evil.  There will be a big public meltdown by that side.  And that side will blame 3rd party voters like me for their loss.

That will happen no matter which side wins.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 28, 2020, 10:01:48 PM
Quote from: Cassia on October 28, 2020, 07:32:12 PM
Walter Mondale’s 1984 concession to Ronald Reagan: “The choice was made peacefully. And although I would have rather won tonight, we rejoice in our democracy. We rejoice in the freedom of a wonderful people. And we accept their verdict.”

That happened in a parallel universe, not this one.  Didn't happen in 1860.  Dems worst losers of all time.  They liked 1865 even less.  Dems both N and S sucked and still do.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 28, 2020, 10:04:11 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on October 28, 2020, 09:43:06 PM
So in one week, about half the country will be bitterly disappointed that "evil" won.  Yes, both sides have a significant portion that sees the other side as actually evil.  There will be a big public meltdown by that side.  And that side will blame 3rd party voters like me for their loss.

That will happen no matter which side wins.

The verdict of history is always right.  Both views are correct, "Americans are evil" - King George III

No, they won't blame you, they will blame Putin not Xi.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 28, 2020, 10:08:19 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on October 28, 2020, 09:43:06 PM
So in one week, about half the country will be bitterly disappointed that "evil" won.  Yes, both sides have a significant portion that sees the other side as actually evil.  There will be a big public meltdown by that side.  And that side will blame 3rd party voters like me for their loss.

That will happen no matter which side wins.

I'm hoping there won't be violence. No matter who wins, it would be the perfect time for Russia, China, or another country hostile to the US to detonate a bomb or some other terrorist attack on US soil and not claim responsibility for it. One of Trump's hotels would be the perfect target. It would be complete chaos.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 28, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
I hope the Chinese invade ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 28, 2020, 10:31:03 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on October 28, 2020, 09:43:06 PM
So in one week, about half the country will be bitterly disappointed that "evil" won.  Yes, both sides have a significant portion that sees the other side as actually evil.  There will be a big public meltdown by that side.  And that side will blame 3rd party voters like me for their loss.

That will happen no matter which side wins.

Maybe America will elect Kanye West...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 28, 2020, 11:28:28 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 28, 2020, 06:17:52 PM
Wow,great grammar there. For those who judge someone's arguments by the quality of an avatar that they don't use, sarcasm or not, that's sad. I'm too old to get angry or lose any sleep over what other people say in this thread. Get rid of your  anger in some other way, because I think if you keep it  up like this after the election is over, you might end-up alone and bitter. I will continue to listen to black-metal and spend time with our grandkids. That makes me smile, not arguing politics on an atheist web-site. Get off my lawn!

Umm... Did you forget how the Quote button works, buddy? No idea what grammar you're taking issue with. Also, you're committing another ad hominem fallacy. If you're not going to engage, just don't post.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 29, 2020, 05:48:03 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on October 28, 2020, 09:43:06 PM
So in one week, about half the country will be bitterly disappointed that "evil" won.  Yes, both sides have a significant portion that sees the other side as actually evil.  There will be a big public meltdown by that side.  And that side will blame 3rd party voters like me for their loss.

That will happen no matter which side wins.
That's right.  Half the country will be sad no matter who wins. But what helps me is looking at the other half of the half empty glass.  Half the country will be dancing joyfully, and even though that half works against my best interests, they are Americans and my countrymen even if we disagree.  It's good to know that others are rejoicing even if I don't participate in the gladness (or the sorrow).  But unfortunately, there is something bigger at stake than winning or losing.

As for voting 3rd party, that is an option that I will defend.  I voted against Trump this year, which is not a lot different from voting 3rd party, because whoever wins produces little or nothing that is positive.  But one thing I will say for most Democratic candidates is they make very good concession speeches.  Remember Al Gore?  His concession speech was the most heart felt speech he made that year.  I was impressed that night.
 
But I cannot bring myself to blame anyone who votes third party.  That blame I bestow on the main parties that offer up uninspiring candidates.  It helps to realize that of late, the third parties have offered total screwballs, but voting third party hurts nothing because we usually end up with duds when the votes are counted.  But Trump makes this year a special case.  And offering the "Any Functioning Adult" option is about the best Democrats can do or care to do.  It's not much of a strategy, however.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 29, 2020, 06:12:44 AM
I recently read that more than half of eligible voters in the USA don't vote.  The NYT interviewed a handful.  I don't know if interviewees were representative or not.  They were just felt disenfranchised by a system that did not represent their needs.  Apparently, being told by politicians that they would benefit if they voted for whoever was not convincing enough.  Non voters tended towards being uneducated and poor.  I don't think that necessarily disqualifies them from consideration, however.  But that's a lot of hopeless people.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 29, 2020, 06:49:16 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 28, 2020, 10:31:03 PM
Maybe America will elect Kanye West...
I never heard of Kanye West and had to google.  I got lots of hits about him announcing his candidacy, but little else about the man, until I finally surfed my way down to this interview.  God forbid you watch the whole video.  It's three hours long, but you can get to know him in about the first three to five minutes.  Who knows.  If Trump can be president, then....  And this seems to be pretty much his argument for running.  But I only watched about 5 minutes or less.  A very short scroll down the page brings you to the video.

https://www.nme.com/news/music/watch-kanye-wests-mammoth-three-hour-interview-on-the-joe-rogan-experience-2797090

Anyone in the forum up for facing off against Kanye West in 2024?  I can't run because I'm still mastering the Rubik's Cube, but I could probably have time for a cabinet position.  As my Ex used to say, if she was in politics, she would want to be the one that was in charge of whales and elephants.  I applauded her for that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on October 29, 2020, 07:03:57 AM
Quote from: SGOS on October 29, 2020, 06:49:16 AM
I never heard of Kanye West and had to google.

He's this basically:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GzOoyOOfqM
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 29, 2020, 07:19:21 AM
Quote from: SGOS on October 29, 2020, 06:49:16 AM
I never heard of Kanye West and had to google.

I envy you.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on October 29, 2020, 07:47:25 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 29, 2020, 07:19:21 AM
I envy you.
+1
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 29, 2020, 08:02:24 AM
Quote from: SGOS on October 29, 2020, 06:12:44 AM
I recently read that more than half of eligible voters in the USA don't vote.  The NYT interviewed a handful.  I don't know if interviewees were representative or not.  They were just felt disenfranchised by a system that did not represent their needs.  Apparently, being told by politicians that they would benefit if they voted for whoever was not convincing enough.  Non voters tended towards being uneducated and poor.  I don't think that necessarily disqualifies them from consideration, however.  But that's a lot of hopeless people.

According to the US Census Bureau (https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2018/demo/p20-582.html), these are reasons given by eligible voters why they did not vote in the presidential election in 2016:

Did not like candidates or campaign issues (4.7 million)
Not interested (2.9 million)
Too busy, conflicting schedule (2.7 million)
Illness or disability (2.2 million)
Other reason (2.1 million)
Out of town (1.5 million)
Registration problems (0.8 million)
Forgot to vote (0.6 million)
Don’t know or refused (0.5 million)
Transportation problems (0.5 million)
Inconvenient polling place (0.4 million)
Bad weather conditions (0.01 million)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 29, 2020, 08:24:43 AM
I recently read a poll that gives Biden an 8 percentage point lead over Trump, and 5% to 8% Biden leads seem to be about standard for the last month.  I can't remember Hillary's lead, but I remember what I considered a similar small percentage for her.  5% to 8% (or even less) should not and did not guarantee a slam dunk on election day, which should not have been the huge surprise that it was.

I also read a poll that attached the standard of error of +/- 8 to Biden's 8 point lead which means his lead could also be zero.  Granted it could also be +16, but whatever.  It's like Biden has an 8% lead with a standard error of +/- 8, but there is also a standard error of +/- 22 that the standard error of+/- 8 is incorrect.

I've read that pollsters have said that they have taken note of their errors in 2016, and corrected for that, but honestly I have read nothing where a pollster explains what they have done to correct what they did wrong. And to make it more complicated, the chances that they have accurately identified their errors correctly has a standard error of +/- 87.  Do these guys know what they are doing?  OK, they are probably better than us asking our friends what they think.  What we may need are retired bookies who made their living coming up with odds on horses.  Oh wait.  They might be the same people that do presidential polls already.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 29, 2020, 08:42:41 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on October 29, 2020, 08:02:24 AM
According to the US Census Bureau (https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2018/demo/p20-582.html), these are reasons given by eligible voters why they did not vote in the presidential election in 2016:

Did not like candidates or campaign issues (4.7 million)
Not interested (2.9 million)
Too busy, conflicting schedule (2.7 million)
Illness or disability (2.2 million)
Other reason (2.1 million)
Out of town (1.5 million)
Registration problems (0.8 million)
Forgot to vote (0.6 million)
Don’t know or refused (0.5 million)
Transportation problems (0.5 million)
Inconvenient polling place (0.4 million)
Bad weather conditions (0.01 million)
Actually, those numbers seem to match up with the reasons given in the article I read.  The article may have made mention of the census.  I can't remember. Keep in mind that there were only 3 or 4 people that the article profiled in the NYT.  I sort of assume those were representative of the whole, but I don't know that.  The two largest groups on the census reasons seem to reflect the disenfranchisement I picked up from the article.  The the last three were the smallest groups, and the ones that Republicans and Democrats are arguing about.  I don't want to downplay their importance because of the groups' relative sizes.  Voting should be as easy as possible for everyone, including those that happen to be "out of town."  But disenfranchisement doesn't lend itself to debate, because you can't pin the blame on the other guy in a political debate over why people don't like either one of you.  And that seems to be the biggest problem.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 29, 2020, 11:13:29 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 28, 2020, 10:31:03 PM
Maybe America will elect Kanye West...

Absolutely!  If I considered myself not to old to vote, I would definitely vote for him.  Seriously.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 29, 2020, 11:16:07 AM
Quote from: SGOS on October 29, 2020, 06:12:44 AM
I recently read that more than half of eligible voters in the USA don't vote.  The NYT interviewed a handful.  I don't know if interviewees were representative or not.  They were just felt disenfranchised by a system that did not represent their needs.  Apparently, being told by politicians that they would benefit if they voted for whoever was not convincing enough.  Non voters tended towards being uneducated and poor.  I don't think that necessarily disqualifies them from consideration, however.  But that's a lot of hopeless people.

Systematic class warfare against Black and White.  The Middle Class are part of the problem, not part of the solution, man.

Polls are COINTELPRO ... they don't measure politics, they move it
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 29, 2020, 11:17:47 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 29, 2020, 07:19:21 AM
I envy you.

The banjo is the only musical instrument invented in America.  Jazz and rap are the only musical forms invented in America.  Which group did this?

Turks have belly dancing I guess ... not bad.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 29, 2020, 11:18:48 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on October 29, 2020, 08:02:24 AM
According to the US Census Bureau (https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2018/demo/p20-582.html), these are reasons given by eligible voters why they did not vote in the presidential election in 2016:

Did not like candidates or campaign issues (4.7 million)
Not interested (2.9 million)
Too busy, conflicting schedule (2.7 million)
Illness or disability (2.2 million)
Other reason (2.1 million)
Out of town (1.5 million)
Registration problems (0.8 million)
Forgot to vote (0.6 million)
Don’t know or refused (0.5 million)
Transportation problems (0.5 million)
Inconvenient polling place (0.4 million)
Bad weather conditions (0.01 million)

They forgot two ...

BLM/AntiFa will murder me
KKK/NeoNazis will murder me ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 29, 2020, 10:38:48 PM
Quote from: SGOS on October 29, 2020, 08:24:43 AMI recently read a poll that gives Biden an 8 percentage point lead over Trump, and 5% to 8% Biden leads seem to be about standard for the last month.  I can't remember Hillary's lead, but I remember what I considered a similar small percentage for her.  5% to 8% (or even less) should not and did not guarantee a slam dunk on election day, which should not have been the huge surprise that it was.

I also read a poll that attached the standard of error of +/- 8 to Biden's 8 point lead which means his lead could also be zero.  Granted it could also be +16, but whatever.  It's like Biden has an 8% lead with a standard error of +/- 8, but there is also a standard error of +/- 22 that the standard error of+/- 8 is incorrect.

I've read that pollsters have said that they have taken note of their errors in 2016, and corrected for that, but honestly I have read nothing where a pollster explains what they have done to correct what they did wrong. And to make it more complicated, the chances that they have accurately identified their errors correctly has a standard error of +/- 87.  Do these guys know what they are doing?  OK, they are probably better than us asking our friends what they think.  What we may need are retired bookies who made their living coming up with odds on horses.  Oh wait.  They might be the same people that do presidential polls already.
That's a great question!  And the full answer could and likely will be a best-seller.  But we don't have that kind of time, so I'll try to be as brief as possible:

1) 2016 had more undecideds (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/12/21/14025198/trump-undecided-final-weeks-survey) and less turnout than 2020 (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/10/22/voter-turnout-2020-ranking-us-presidential-elections/6006793002/), with generally poor favorability ratings for both candidates (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president/clintontrumpfavorability.html).  That has changed (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president/trumpbidenfavorability.html).
2) Biden has a larger lead than Clinton ever did (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/biden-is-polling-better-than-clinton-at-her-peak/), it's consistent, and the gap hasn't narrowed nearly as much (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/29/biden-maintains-polling-lead-over-trump-with-five-days-left-to.html), though it has narrowed in some of the battleground states, it's very different than 2016 (https://fortune.com/2020/10/28/2020-election-florida-trump-biden-polls-update/)
3) Pollsters didn't weight the No College Degree category correctly in 2016 (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/pollsters-probably-didnt-talk-to-enough-white-voters-without-college-degrees/), they've since corrected that.
4) Pollsters flubbed the Great Lakes states in 2016 (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/presidential-election-polls-2016-what-went-wrong/), they've since corrected that.

A lot of information there, honestly too much to really deal with all at once, so mull over it at your convenience and I'm more than willing to provide more info or take questions on specific points.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 29, 2020, 10:41:53 PM
In lieu of 1000 words:

(https://preview.redd.it/22oltetjnvv51.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=1c5342c7f5f8a4280a721094d219678fc273cb58)

If 2020 polls are off by the same amount they were in 2016, Trump would pick up some of the close states, but not enough to win.

Source (https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/presidential-polls-trump-biden#the-polls-are-here-and-they-tell-a-clear-story)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 30, 2020, 01:16:37 AM
(https://scontent.fhou1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/123005401_3781563575210884_3880918783873092534_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=yxPixI4YL-IAX_2hd3p&_nc_ht=scontent.fhou1-2.fna&oh=37b0dfdc01cd57311fc1bc6051986097&oe=5FC08105)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 30, 2020, 04:05:08 AM
Quote from: Baruch on October 29, 2020, 11:17:47 AM
The banjo is the only musical instrument invented in America.  Jazz and rap are the only musical forms invented in America.  Which group did this?

Turks have belly dancing I guess ... not bad.

Yeah because this is about black culture and music, right? Kanye West is a narcissist billioner who made his money from some sports wear and his fame, largely from his outbursts and his wife. It's a clever marriage business. He doesn't represent anything. He is one of the last people to represent African Americans. The fact that a large group of people deify figures like him is a result of modern culture and societies teaching children deify money & fame at every cost for the power that comes with it.

What does belly dancing have to with any of this? 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 30, 2020, 11:32:15 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 30, 2020, 04:05:08 AM
Yeah because this is about black culture and music, right? Kanye West is a narcissist billioner who made his money from some sports wear and his fame, largely from his outbursts and his wife. It's a clever marriage business. He doesn't represent anything. He is one of the last people to represent African Americans. The fact that a large group of people deify figures like him is a result of modern culture and societies teaching children deify money & fame at every cost for the power that comes with it.

What does belly dancing have to with any of this?

The problem with communists, they are all envious murderers.  Like in the NT parable of the share croppers who kill the son of the landlord.  Capitalists are like the prodigal son however.

Yes, real African-Americans are like the Black antagonist in Black Panther.  As Mike CL will ironically say, fiction isn't real.  I have worked with dozens of African-Americans for 40 years, and none of them are like that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 30, 2020, 01:13:32 PM
(https://cbsnews3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2020/10/18/27c31ee4-7902-4f14-ab61-835ae4ff9469/thumbnail/620x286/50267bbd7533b9105ac83dd7856c55f3/image049-1.jpg)

Do you guys remember when Trump ran as a populist and pretended to champion the working class?  That illusion is broken and has been broken for quite some time.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 30, 2020, 01:28:41 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 30, 2020, 01:13:32 PM
(https://cbsnews3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2020/10/18/27c31ee4-7902-4f14-ab61-835ae4ff9469/thumbnail/620x286/50267bbd7533b9105ac83dd7856c55f3/image049-1.jpg)

Do you guys remember when Trump ran as a populist and pretended to champion the working class?  That illusion is broken and has been broken for quite some time.

My younger brother lives in a large housing development with less expensive homes at the entry to the community and more expensive homes further in. He commented that the entry-level homes all have blue political yard signs and as the home increase in cost the signs turn red.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 30, 2020, 01:38:55 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on October 30, 2020, 01:28:41 PM
My younger brother lives in a large housing development with less expensive homes at the entry to the community and more expensive homes further in. He commented that the entry-level homes all have blue political yard signs and as the home increase in cost the signs turn red.
Yep, broadly true (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/06/05/its-time-to-bust-the-myth-most-trump-voters-were-not-working-class/).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 30, 2020, 03:31:25 PM
When are the middle class / poor Conservatives going to finally realize Republicans don't care about them? The idea that making the richer richer is somehow going to result in that money trickling down to them, rather than in some offshore, tax free account is just delusional. They don't respond to getting more money by investing more in their employees.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 30, 2020, 03:49:02 PM
Trump cancels election night party at Trump hotel, prepares to bunker down at White House (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/523528-trump-changes-election-night-plans-cancels-party-at-trump-international)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 30, 2020, 04:02:16 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 30, 2020, 03:31:25 PM
When are the middle class / poor Conservatives going to finally realize Republicans don't care about them? The idea that making the richer richer is somehow going to result in that money trickling down to them, rather than in some offshore, tax free account is just delusional. They don't respond to getting more money by investing more in their employees.

When are Americans going to finally realize that Democrats only care about criminals and Chinese politburo members?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 30, 2020, 04:03:03 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 30, 2020, 03:49:02 PM
Trump cancels election night party at Trump hotel, prepares to bunker down at White House (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/523528-trump-changes-election-night-plans-cancels-party-at-trump-international)

Good plan, the Dems plan on killing all White people and men next month ;-)

"Key Steele Dossier Source Revealed As Alcoholic Disgruntled Russian PR Exec In Cyprus" ... Mrs 40-year old Olga Galkina.  Bet she had the hots for Hillary.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on October 30, 2020, 04:30:36 PM
 The level of hostility on this thread is off the charts, but that's pretty much what I expected. Some of you seem to have a lot of time to do your "research" about who's going to win and what the aftermath will be. How much rent do you pay your parents? With this amount of hatred for any one who doesn't follow your every word, how do you hold down a real job? I'll just live my retirement years with my family and sleep well at night. Just promise that you won't go off the deep-end when trump is re-elected on tuesday.  P.S., I write like a 61 year old , not 16. I think you got your numbers mixed-up. See ya in 2021!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on October 30, 2020, 04:35:39 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 30, 2020, 04:30:36 PMP.S., I write like a 61 year old with dementia , not 16. I think you got your numbers mixed-up. See ya in 2021!
fify
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 30, 2020, 04:49:19 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 30, 2020, 04:30:36 PM
The level of hostility on this thread is off the charts, but that's pretty much what I expected. Some of you seem to have a lot of time to do your "research" about who's going to win and what the aftermath will be. How much rent do you pay your parents?

OMG. The lack of self-awareness here is astonishing. We're the hostile ones? Yeah, sure.

And seriously? You're going to make fun of people for doing their research? As if that's a...bad thing? Okay... Welcome to my ignore list, you hopeless moron.

Also, not that it's any of your business, but I haven't lived with my parents for a long time. Not that that has anything to do with the validity of our arguments. But I suspect you know that. You're just being an asshole, while trying to paint us as the nasty ones... Maybe one day you'll grow a brain, but I'm not holding my breath.

Quote from: bob nelson on October 30, 2020, 04:30:36 PMWith this amount of hatred for any one who doesn't follow your every word, how do you hold down a real job? I'll just live my retirement years with my family and sleep well at night. Just promise that you won't go off the deep-end when trump is re-elected on tuesday.  P.S., I write like a 61 year old , not 16. I think you got your numbers mixed-up. See ya in 2021!

"I'm too busy enjoying my retirement to waste my life here."

Five minutes later:

"Yup. Still too busy living it up here to contribute to this hate. So...so busy."

Ten minutes later:

"Just so you guys know, I'm not going to be posting here any more. All this hate is really putting me down."

Thirty minutes later:

"Just checking to make extra sure you guys know, I'm not going to bother with you guys any more. I'm enjoying my life too much to let you guys bring me down with your hate. Just thought I'd make sure you knew that."
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 30, 2020, 04:52:18 PM
@bob nelson .. nobody knows what will happen tomorrow, let alone with the election and its aftermath.  And nobody knows if that will be good or bad ... until a year from now, maybe ... and that depends on your POV.  So think of this as a hooligan fight at a British soccer match, between fat guys who couldn't get a ball past the goalie ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on October 30, 2020, 05:45:01 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 30, 2020, 04:30:36 PM
The level of hostility on this thread is off the charts, but that's pretty much what I expected. Some of you seem to have a lot of time to do your "research" about who's going to win and what the aftermath will be. How much rent do you pay your parents? With this amount of hatred for any one who doesn't follow your every word, how do you hold down a real job? I'll just live my retirement years with my family and sleep well at night. Just promise that you won't go off the deep-end when trump is re-elected on tuesday.  P.S., I write like a 61 year old , not 16. I think you got your numbers mixed-up. See ya in 2021!
No, no mix-up.  You seem to possess an emotional age of probably closer to 12 going on 13.  You came here complaining about your family--now that is what you enjoy.  Make up your mind.  And remember, you came here--nobody forced you to come or stay.  So, quit your sniveling and engage in a dialogue instead of trying to make us the bad guys.  Or better yet, simply stay off this forum, enjoy your family more and listen to the music of a person 12 going on 13--death metal--yeah, good healthy stuff, alright.  And maybe spend some time with a shrink.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on October 30, 2020, 06:01:21 PM
Isn't it funny that children always think they're more mature than they are?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on October 30, 2020, 08:54:04 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on October 30, 2020, 04:30:36 PM
The level of hostility on this thread is off the charts, but that's pretty much what I expected. Some of you seem to have a lot of time to do your "research" about who's going to win and what the aftermath will be. How much rent do you pay your parents? With this amount of hatred for any one who doesn't follow your every word, how do you hold down a real job? I'll just live my retirement years with my family and sleep well at night. Just promise that you won't go off the deep-end when trump is re-elected on tuesday.  P.S., I write like a 61 year old , not 16. I think you got your numbers mixed-up. See ya in 2021!

Pretty much said every republican ever.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 30, 2020, 09:00:05 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 29, 2020, 10:38:48 PM
That's a great question!  And the full answer could and likely will be a best-seller.  But we don't have that kind of time, so I'll try to be as brief as possible:

1) 2016 had more undecideds (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/12/21/14025198/trump-undecided-final-weeks-survey) and less turnout than 2020 (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/10/22/voter-turnout-2020-ranking-us-presidential-elections/6006793002/), with generally poor favorability ratings for both candidates (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president/clintontrumpfavorability.html).  That has changed (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president/trumpbidenfavorability.html).
2) Biden has a larger lead than Clinton ever did (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/biden-is-polling-better-than-clinton-at-her-peak/), it's consistent, and the gap hasn't narrowed nearly as much (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/29/biden-maintains-polling-lead-over-trump-with-five-days-left-to.html), though it has narrowed in some of the battleground states, it's very different than 2016 (https://fortune.com/2020/10/28/2020-election-florida-trump-biden-polls-update/)
3) Pollsters didn't weight the No College Degree category correctly in 2016 (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/pollsters-probably-didnt-talk-to-enough-white-voters-without-college-degrees/), they've since corrected that.
4) Pollsters flubbed the Great Lakes states in 2016 (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/presidential-election-polls-2016-what-went-wrong/), they've since corrected that.

A lot of information there, honestly too much to really deal with all at once, so mull over it at your convenience and I'm more than willing to provide more info or take questions on specific points.
Number 4 was the one I could keep up with. It actually spoke to my issue by saying how groups are weighted has changed. But to find out if that and other changes will be more accurate this time around, I think we will have to wait until election night.

I probably made too much of my issue.  Polls are subject to error.  We all know that, and I knew that.  Polls have been around long enough and experts have figured out about as much as they as can by now.  There will probably never be a reason to say, this year or any other year, they suddenly got it right.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 30, 2020, 09:24:24 PM
Quote from: SGOS on October 30, 2020, 09:00:05 PMI probably made too much of my issue.
Au contraire, it's a very important thing to bring up.  In 2016, a lot of people looked at the political sites like CNN and HuffPo with their 90-95% Clinton predictions and Clinton national lead and got the shock of their lives.  And people understandably don't trust polling nearly as much as they did before.  And now, with new polls coming out every day and making headlines, and people getting a lot of deja vu, it's super important to understand both the fallibility of polling and (paradoxically) the reliability of polling.

A fair amount of polling skepticism might actually be a good thing because people won't assume it's in the bag and stay home.  And Dem campaigns are likely to urge their supporters to work towards such a large lead that it far exceeds any realistic error bar or shy Republican vote.  This greater participation and leaving nothing to chance are good strategies whether the polls are accurate or not.

Don't count your chickens till they lay eggs themselves!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 31, 2020, 06:50:14 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 30, 2020, 09:24:24 PM
In 2016, a lot of people looked at the political sites like CNN and HuffPo with their 90-95% Clinton predictions and Clinton national lead and got the shock of their lives.  And people understandably don't trust polling nearly as much as they did before.
I don't trust polling anymore or any less than I did in 2016.  Some college course I took spent time teaching about taking surveys, and while I had seen surveys with obviously flawed methodology, I was surprised by the number of things that can affect the accuracy of a survey, and I imagined that the actual list went on more or less endlessly.  The point being that experts can only do the best they can within their area of knowledge and expertise.  The polling environment is also fraught with charlatans trying to influence public thinking by wording questions that are obvious political ads, rather than seeking to understand a person's thoughts.

I read one pollster in 2016 say they failed to determine how many people said they were voting for Hillary but would actually stay home, possibly for the very reason that they read in the polls that Hillary would win.  No doubt many people don't vote when they think their choice is in the bag.  Apparently the pollsters did not weight for that.  I haven't seen how that has been corrected this year.  My bias is that factor alone was enormous.  But I don't know that, because no poll was ever taken to determine who will actually stay home.  It may be a bigger factor this year than 2016, because pollsters are saying Biden has a bigger lead, not only overall, but in "such and such" special cases.  And all of those cases are cherry picked to support today's accuracy of the new polling, which means more pollster bias.

OK, enough of that.  Polls are not reliable, especially when what they are predicting depends on a minute difference in the data. Presidential elections are won by 51/49, not 80/20, so political polls are especially unreliable because they can't cut it as close as the actual vote that is inevitably going to be a photo finish.  The media often treats 54/46 as a political landslide which never strikes me as a land slide.  Throw in some monkey business like gerrymandering, fucking with the mail, or depending on the electoral college, and polls are even less important.

One last thing.  I did not vote in 2016.  It was not because I thought Hillary had it in the bag.  I wasn't interested in Hillary.  The reason I didn't vote was because I thought Trump was a jerk and Clinton was a status quo Democrat. Neither of which would do anything positive for the country.  I voted this year, not because I think Biden is better than Clinton.  My goodness, they asked him to stay out of the race so they could run Hillary as the stronger choice 4 years ago.  Biden is still status quo, every bit as much as Clinton.  It's just that Trump turned out to be a far bigger jerk than I ever imagined, and I already had a horribly low opinion of him in 2016.  It's pitiful voting for the person that isn't supposed to be as good as the last person I didn't vote for.  There's nothing positive about any of this process when the only upside is knowing it could be worse.  That should be the Democrats bumper sticker:  "It Could Be Worse!  Vote Blue!"  But that's not my idea of being "progressive."
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 31, 2020, 07:54:06 AM
Something I thought was really interesting in 2016 that is only tangentially related to election predictions is that I watched the election returns until the wee hours.  The streaming service I watched was highlighted by an on-screen digital dial, made to look like an analog meter that was never taken off the screen even during the clips and commentary that made up most of the night, but was punctuated only occasionally with incoming data from the states.

The dial put Trump on one side, and Hillary on the other and showed NOT who was winning, but what the incoming data was predicting who WOULD win by the end of the night.  Before any data at all came in, the needle on the dial pointed almost straight at Hillary.  That kind of made sense, because it supposedly reflected what polls suggested.  Then the data started to come in, sometimes it favored Hillary and sometimes it favored Trump, but it was early so the needle jiggled a little, but seemed to keep coming back to Hillary like it was magnetized.  Apparently, data that favored Trump was not consequential enough to swing the needle that much, so it kept bouncing around Hillary almost to the very end.  Even when the electoral college showed the same number of votes for both candidates, the needle was stuck on Hillary.  Like some component in the innards of the dial was calculating some other probabilities.   When everyone could tell that the electoral college already had decided the outcome, the needle began to point more toward the Trump side of the dial, as if there was more to come, like maybe the electoral college data would somehow shift again toward Hillary.  With in a half hour of the end of the program, the needle finally went to Trump, long after the votes said he had already won.

Then they brought in in some Trump supporting talking head, who had looked like she had been having menstrual cramps all evening, but now she was all animated and claiming that she knew Trump was going to win all along, because he cared so much about the working man, and the health of the nation, and bla, bla, bla.  Now I can understand her joy.  What right winger wouldn't have been in a state of jubilation by then?  I got that, but the rest of her reason was based on nothing that was known to anyone, and still isn't today.

OK, I was shocked by the outcome, not because the polls were wrong, but because I also thought Hillary would win, but based only on the belief that everyone could certainly see that Trump was nothing more than some wealthy clown.  So this year if Trumps wins, I would probably be even less surprised, because I now have a clearer understanding of my lack of perspective about the country I live in.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 31, 2020, 08:27:53 AM
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on October 30, 2020, 08:54:04 PM
Pretty much said every republican ever.

Democrat - got slave?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 31, 2020, 03:21:29 PM
Quote from: SGOS on October 31, 2020, 06:50:14 AMThe polling environment is also fraught with charlatans trying to influence public thinking by wording questions that are obvious political ads, rather than seeking to understand a person's thoughts.
That's why the poll themselves are rated and weighted accordingly. (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/)  And anytime I see an online-only poll, I take it with a heaping helping of salt.

QuoteI read one pollster in 2016 say they failed to determine how many people said they were voting for Hillary but would actually stay home, possibly for the very reason that they read in the polls that Hillary would win.  No doubt many people don't vote when they think their choice is in the bag.  Apparently the pollsters did not weight for that.  I haven't seen how that has been corrected this year.
Pollsters of course can't correct for people getting overconfident and complacent because their whole purpose is to say who's leading and who's not, how people use that info is on them.  If the poll results show Biden in the lead, they have to say Biden is in the lead.

What the Biden campaign and people in general have done is to urge people to vote regardless of what the polls say, to not get complacent.  That's all you really can do.

QuoteIt may be a bigger factor this year than 2016, because pollsters are saying Biden has a bigger lead, not only overall, but in "such and such" special cases.
If voting this year was at or below 2016, then the idea that people are over-confidently staying home would be a legitimate concern.  But this year's turnout blows 2016 out of the water.  So I don't see how there's a stay-at-home problem.

And yes, the polls could be off at specific battleground states, which is worrisome.

QuoteAnd all of those cases are cherry picked to support today's accuracy of the new polling, which means more pollster bias.
I dunno what you're saying here.  Are you saying that the pollsters are picking and choosing which polls to publish and only publish polls favoring Biden?

QuotePolls are not reliable, especially when what they are predicting depends on a minute difference in the data. Presidential elections are won by 51/49, not 80/20, so political polls are especially unreliable because they can't cut it as close as the actual vote that is inevitably going to be a photo finish.
Presidential elections typically have a close popular vote, but the electoral college swings wildly.

In 2004, the popular vote was close at ~51%/~48%, but the electoral college was 286 to 251
In 2008, the popular vote was close at ~53%/~46% but the electoral college was 365 to 173.
In 2012, the popular vote was close at ~51%/~47%, but the electoral college was 332 to 206.

So I agree that a national lead isn't a terribly reliable indicator (even a flawless reading of the general public isn't particularly useful since our electoral system isn't a straight popular vote)

QuoteThe media often treats 54/46 as a political landslide which never strikes me as a land slide.
You're right, it's not. 

QuoteThrow in some monkey business like gerrymandering, fucking with the mail, or depending on the electoral college, and polls are even less important.
I agree with that.

QuoteOne last thing.  I did not vote in 2016.  It was not because I thought Hillary had it in the bag.  I wasn't interested in Hillary.  The reason I didn't vote was because I thought Trump was a jerk and Clinton was a status quo Democrat. Neither of which would do anything positive for the country.
I don't blame you for that.  I did vote in 2016 and my reasoning (which I posted here) is that Hillary Clinton would control Supreme Court nominees.  As Trump said, elections have consequences and we're seeing those consequences right now.

QuoteMy goodness, they asked him to stay out of the race so they could run Hillary as the stronger choice 4 years ago.
A similar incident happened with Sanders.  I dunno how that would have played out, but we all know how it played out with Clinton.  It's pretty galling to see the DNC get upset about Trump's attempts to alter the course of this election considering how they run their primaries.

QuoteBiden is still status quo, every bit as much as Clinton.
Eh, I dunno about that.  I guess we'll see.  He's no socialist, that's for sure.  And sadly, no matter who wins, a lot of much-needed reforms are a dream deferred.  But I do like Biden's energy plan (though obviously I wish he would go further).  Gotta start somewhere, I guess.

QuoteIt's just that Trump turned out to be a far bigger jerk than I ever imagined, and I already had a horribly low opinion of him in 2016.
I had a very dim view of him throughout the 2016 campaign season (global warming as a Chinese hoax was especially infuriating) but I thought he might follow through on some of his more reasonable ideas, like overhauling infrastructure and stamping out corruption.  Brutally disappointing, and that's an understatement.

Honestly, if 2020 me read today's headlines to 2016 me, I'd think it was some sick joke.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on October 31, 2020, 03:47:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk_QnKtBH8w
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on October 31, 2020, 04:15:15 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 31, 2020, 03:47:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk_QnKtBH8w

I miss the times when Trump was universally considered a clown. Now it's only everyone except Conservatives and Conservatives LARPing as Moderates who agree he's a clown.

"I'm totally left of center, you guys! Just because I consistently take the position against policies that benefit racial and sexual minorities, think that societies turning away from Conservative Christian "values" is hurting the family unit, and are more concerned about the threat of blue-haired college students than literal Nazis doesn't mean I'm a Conservative!"
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on October 31, 2020, 05:08:56 PM

And all of those cases are cherry picked to support today's accuracy of the new polling, which means more pollster bias.

Quote from: Hydra009 on October 31, 2020, 03:21:29 PM
I dunno what you're saying here.  Are you saying that the pollsters are picking and choosing which polls to publish and only publish polls favoring Biden?
No not at all.  I'm thinking pollsters would be motivated (possibly unconsciously) to create the impression that they have their bases covered this year by pointing out changes they have made in methodology, and why their changes are correct.  But that seems like Monday morning quarterbacking to make those assumptions.  I'm not attacking pollsters.  I think polling is less than an exact science, and much is left to bias.  Actually, I'm not that hot on my own argument, because it's more like I'm thinking out loud, and I'm not sure how sound that is.  I'm not at all saying that pollsters are fudging to give Biden a better lead.  I give them way more credit than that. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 31, 2020, 05:12:26 PM
If you are a married adult (even to same gender), if you work full time equivalent between the two of you, if you are raising children or otherwise supporting them as a Big Brother etc ... then I believe you have family values.  Some are too young or presently out of luck.  If you are working against those ordinary common things, then you are part of the problem not part of the solution.  I see all politicians in the latter category.  So no matter who wins next month, the American people will lose again, as they do every two years.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 31, 2020, 06:35:46 PM
Quote from: SGOS on October 31, 2020, 05:08:56 PMI'm thinking pollsters would be motivated (possibly unconsciously) to create the impression that they have their bases covered this year by pointing out changes they have made in methodology, and why their changes are correct.
I mean, I'm sure they've gotten questions about why polls were so off in 2016 and what they're doing differently this time around.  If I were a pollster, I'd draw a lot of attention to the methodology changes myself, possibly boring the question-asker into a statistics-induced coma.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on October 31, 2020, 06:48:00 PM
Speaking of polls, there's bit of disagreement over them at the moment (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/523426-positive-trump-polls-spark-polling-circle-debate)

QuoteThe Trafalgar Group, which was the only nonpartisan outlet in 2016 to find Trump leading in Michigan and Pennsylvania on Election Day, shows Trump with small leads in both states, which would be keys to another Trump win in the Electoral College. Nearly every other pollster shows Biden with a comfortable lead.

Trafalgar’s Robert Cahaly says there is a hidden Trump vote that is not being accounted for in polls that show Biden on a glide path to the White House.

“There are more [shy Trump voters] than last time and it’s not even a contest,” Cahaly said, adding that it’s “quite possible” that the polling industry is headed for a catastrophic miss in 2020.

QuoteFiveThirtyEight’s Nate Silver and Cook Political Report editor Dave Wasserman are among those deeply skeptical of Cahaly’s polling.

Both have dug into the crosstabs of Trafalgar polls and pointed to questionable breakdowns as evidence Trafalgar doesn’t know what it’s doing. For instance, the crosstabs in a Michigan poll, which are no longer online, appeared to show Trump leading Biden by 8 points among young voters, a Democratic stronghold.
Maybe they're using this (https://external-preview.redd.it/AzCUWHywB1EvG1Qtgsxi7FJqKmV37PzJb2dPBcReqDc.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=a97d1a3498d6b5dfafe5239595be7e0909bfeeb5) as part of their dataset?

Who's right?  I dunno.  I guess we'll find out.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on October 31, 2020, 07:04:03 PM
Both the media and the GOP love really close elections - the media gets more money if it looks like a horse race, and the GOP because close elections are easier to steal. Voter suppression works better that way.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on October 31, 2020, 09:18:53 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 31, 2020, 07:04:03 PM
Both the media and the GOP love really close elections - the media gets more money if it looks like a horse race, and the GOP because close elections are easier to steal. Voter suppression works better that way.

Chaos creates investment opportunities.  So does burning down cities.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 01, 2020, 11:55:08 AM
Saying the quiet part out loud:  Minnesota GOP worries that late ballots may "dilute" their vote (https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-virus-outbreak-elections-minnesota-courts-56d03fd6e52f46129936e9c6d2a66eeb)

QuoteMinnesota was one of those states, with a consent decree in state court that changed the rules so ballots postmarked on or before Nov. 3 could be accepted for up to seven days after the election.

Republican state Rep. Eric Lucero and GOP activist James Carson, who both would participate in the Electoral College if President Donald Trump carries Minnesota, opposed the state agreement and took the case to federal court. Their lawsuit, backed by the conservative-leaning Honest Elections Project, argued that an extension would create chaos and dilute the value of their votes by counting “unlawful” ballots after Election Day.
They supposedly have the silent majority on their side, so I don't see what they're worried about.  If anything, they'd insist that every ballot be counted because they love America (and by extension, America's democratic tradition) and know they have the support of the common man, who will outnumber any minority liberal elites.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 01, 2020, 12:03:11 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 01, 2020, 11:55:08 AM
Saying the quiet part out loud:  Minnesota GOP worries that late ballots may "dilute" their vote (https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-virus-outbreak-elections-minnesota-courts-56d03fd6e52f46129936e9c6d2a66eeb)
They supposedly have the silent majority on their side, so I don't see what they're worried about.  If anything, they'd insist that every ballot be counted because they love America (and by extension, America's democratic tradition) and know they have the support of the common man, who will outnumber any minority liberal elites.

Hubert Humphrey won in 1968, George McGovern won in 1972 ... bwahaha  ... there is no silent majority.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: bob nelson on November 01, 2020, 04:04:30 PM
 You're right, I did join this thread willingly, and found out that what I had heard about most atheists is true. They are liberal and usually vote for the left and that I should probably keep my political leanings to my self. Some of you are taking politics and yourselves way too seriously. It's not healthy to get that wound up over something that you think you can influence one way or the other. All politicians are corrupt. All have very low moral standards, that's why they are so many career politicans in office, they'll do ANYTHING to stay in power. That's the myth about D.C. They don't care about us, they care about getting rich. When the clintons left the white house, hilliary whined about them being broke. They didn't know where they were going to end up. Now they're worth 100+ million dollars. All of that money was earned legally right? Sure, it's all about the people. All of your opinions and my own mean less than nothing to them, we're just a means to an end.I take no insults personally and infer non on any one else. We will continue to live our lives after this is over, and hopefully the future will be better than it is now. Right now, it's all just one giant cluster-fuck.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on November 01, 2020, 05:28:50 PM
The problem is the right believes in government by the people. But only the right people.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 01, 2020, 06:06:12 PM
Quote from: bob nelson on November 01, 2020, 04:04:30 PMYou're right, I did join this thread willingly, and found out that what I had heard about most atheists is true. They are liberal and usually vote for the left and that I should probably keep my political leanings to my self.
That was a pretty slow revelation after several posts of MAGA chest-beating.  At the very least, you could've looked around before jumping in and foolishly assuming everyone was pro-Trump.

And you know, there's only like a handful of regular posters here, so probably too small a sample size for all atheists.  You might wanna try somewhere else, though the right-wing boards tend to lend themselves to right-wing Christianity, and I dunno if they'd think kindly of your kind.  Something about leopards and faces.

That said, there is a loose correlation between atheism and leaning left politically, at least in the West.  There are lots of interesting theories as to why this is the case.  Personally, I think the fact that atheists typically aren't pro-theocracy is probably a pretty big factor.

QuoteSome of you are taking politics and yourselves way too seriously.
You try (very hard, I might add) to portray talking about politics practically on the eve of a major election as a bad thing.  Why?  Would you feel the same if it was people expressing right-wing viewpoints?

QuoteIt's not healthy to get that wound up over something that you think you can influence one way or the other.
Have you ever met a religious person?  Or a scientist?  Or just a regular person?  People get worried about stuff they can't change all the time.  But in this case, there is a clearcut course of action and it's called the ballot box.  After that, it's wait-and-see time.  And naturally, people are going to talk during this period.  Purely optional, of course.  You can talk or not talk, just don't stand in the doorway, m'kay?

QuoteAll politicians are corrupt.
This seems to be something of a right-wing mantra (or is it a thought-terminating cliche?).  I know you guys need to believe that because of your own associations (the grass can't possibly be greener elsewhere) but the obvious fact is that there are a range people in politics - good people, decent people, okay people, bad people, deplorables, etc.

QuoteAll have very low moral standards, that's why they are so many career politicans in office, they'll do ANYTHING to stay in power.
Well, we just ran the experiment and tried a reality tv star instead.  It didn't work out so well.

And although career politicians (like career scientists and career educators) typically aren't viewed very favorably by the right (apparently, McConnell is the exception for some reason), there's something to be said for experience and expertise.

QuoteWe will continue to live our lives after this is over, and hopefully the future will be better than it is now.
It's looking that way, despite some strenuous efforts otherwise.  But we'll see.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on November 01, 2020, 06:11:22 PM
Rather a telling statement to say all politicians have low morals when you tout conservative, the most “pretend religious” ever, having the lowest morals. But...that is nothing new to us. Christians have always been fond of following scripture that benefits them and ignoring the ones that are inconvenient or not profitable.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 01, 2020, 06:18:40 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 01, 2020, 05:28:50 PM
The problem is the right believes in government by the people. But only the right people.

The Left believes in government by Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, Mao, Castro, Tito, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot etc.  Because communism is utopia, and any thing done to further utopia should be done ... have to break a few 10s of millions of eggs for one big happy omelet, right?

The government has always been by the Elite.  The question is, which elite?  Democracy has always been a sham, thanks to brain washed deplorables.  It is two wolves discussing with one sheep, what to have for dinner.  In an autarchy the wolves don't vote, in a democracy the wolves vote.  The result is the same.

If there had never been any Christians, the atheists would still complain about them ;-)  Atheists of course reject all gods, except the tiny god that is their own ego ;-)) ... that is why there is no room for other gods ;-)))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 01, 2020, 06:44:04 PM
Once I reached upper management in corporate America and my portfolio was fluctuating 5 figures on an average day, I was allowed to attend events with people worth hundreds of millions and they would shoot the shit. They love the stereotypical Trump voters. They had a laugh about how they are "as dumb as rocks", but they love them.

The only vote that matters is the one vote per share that elects that board who will do all the real what, where, who and when deciding that really effects our lives (including who in the government needs to be elected for the very purpose of throttling itself.) And of course your health is just another business.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 01, 2020, 08:16:29 PM
So to update our list of things that disqualify you from having a valid opinion in politics, according to bob nelson:

1. Having a cartoon/anime avatar.

2. Having a username based on a cartoon or anime.

3. Living with your parents.

4. Doing too much research.

5. Being mad about stuff.

6. Caring too much about politics.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 01, 2020, 08:24:23 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 01, 2020, 05:28:50 PM
The problem is the right believes in government by the people. But only the right people.

Specifically, the old, rich, white, Christian guys, and the minorities who are willing to simp for them. Everyone else is a whiny socialist who should just be happy they allow us to live here.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 01, 2020, 09:09:24 PM
Quote from: Baruch on November 01, 2020, 06:18:40 PM
Atheists of course reject all gods, except the tiny god that is their own ego ;-)) ... that is why there is no room for other gods ;-)))

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGU-33_W8AAKqYp?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 01, 2020, 09:13:15 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 01, 2020, 06:44:04 PM
Once I reached upper management in corporate America and my portfolio was fluctuating 5 figures on an average day, I was allowed to attend events with people worth hundreds of millions and they would shoot the shit. They love the stereotypical Trump voters. They had a laugh about how they are "as dumb as rocks", but they love them.

The only vote that matters is the one vote per share that elects that board who will do all the real what, where, who and when deciding that really effects our lives (including who in the government needs to be elected for the very purpose of throttling itself.) And of course your health is just another business.


That is why, looking back 46 years, I would never hire a failed lawyer or con artist (aka politician) for any job.  Not that there aren't worthless shits in business, who shouldn't be allowed to run a lemonade stand.  One of my favorites …

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/546936.Up_the_Organization

@GSOgymrat … everyone who posts on the Internet is an asshole, which is why I post too ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 01, 2020, 09:16:29 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 01, 2020, 08:24:23 PM
Specifically, the old, rich, white, Christian guys, and the minorities who are willing to simp for them. Everyone else is a whiny socialist who should just be happy they allow us to live here.
I saw a post on social media that basically tried to excuse GOP attempts to manipulate the election on the grounds that the liberals are doing the same thing by "bribing" the electorate with social programs.  Apparently, people deriving some benefit from their tax dollars counts as bribery now.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 01, 2020, 09:18:32 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 01, 2020, 09:16:29 PM
I saw a post on social media that basically tried to excuse GOP attempts to manipulate the election on the grounds that the liberals are doing the same thing by "bribing" the electorate with social programs.  Apparently, people deriving some benefit from their tax dollars counts as bribery now.

Bribery is good, so is murder.  Don't be such killjoys!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 02, 2020, 12:44:39 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 01, 2020, 09:16:29 PM
I saw a post on social media that basically tried to excuse GOP attempts to manipulate the election on the grounds that the liberals are doing the same thing by "bribing" the electorate with social programs.  Apparently, people deriving some benefit from their tax dollars counts as bribery now.

I don't suppose those social media posters have returned their $1200 Trump-endorsed bribes "stimulus checks" to the government.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 02, 2020, 03:39:27 AM
They don't see any of it as crime or even corruption when they, themselves do it. This is how organized religion and right wing works. It's the whole point of orgnized religion from the beginning. Right wing politics and policies, nationalism is the religion of the modern state. It's the same fucking shit. It's the same everywhere around the world.

"But deomcrats are corrupt too!" Yeah because Democrats in the US are right wing too. They are just not insanely homicidal, they're aiming for some sort of a balance in making policies for people. A simple example. They understand the consequences of prohibiting abortion. Or why there should be a universal health care.

Forget about the pandemic and the last 4 years. As far as I understand the lobby system in the US is worst than an absurd horror movie. Or have you guys seen the documentary called The Laundromat? If that is a popular movie made in the last few years with Hollywood stars, think about what has been really going on for decades? Did you know that they sued and tried to remove that from Netflix? How many people were imprisoned after 2008 mortgage crisis? It seems, just after that the same thing has started over again. What will happen after the new mortage crisis? The bank system?

On the other hand, you cannot administrate a modern society without establishing a laicist system. You just can't. A secular culture grows after that, as a result of that. Because first the institutions get laicist, then people and so the culture gets secular. Institutions don't get secular. You just don't take a fundamental concept and modify it according to politcial benefit. It's not some food or an ancient holiday.

Ending the reign of organised religion is a must to achieve civilisation; putting every religious institution under heavy tax -let's see how religious they are without that money- fundamentally secularising public education, making it mandatory, unless there is a serious health issues with the kid. Establish a universal health care system. Making vaccination mandatory. Prohibit every mumbo jumbo imposed as some sort of medicine. Prohibit child pageantry and any kind of bullshit in that line. Just random examples. It's all about building a social state.

If you think these things are an issue of 'freedom', or some agenda to build a 'communist' or 'socialist' system...whatever  -it is hard to keep track on how people use those words, assuming they are not 11 years old- congratulations, you are a right wing moron. 

Supppose that I'm deeply religous and against gay people. (Whatever that means...) I'm producing something or providing a service. And I demand that it is my right not to provide it for gay people. No, it is NOT. Because that is not a right. It's not freedom either.

You do not administrate with religous belief or emotions. There is no such freedom. And if you let that go, 10 years later people start dying in streets, because religious/right wing morons with MDs demanded to exercise their 'right' not to treat anyone they do not like; purple people, nonbelievers, pixies or jedi masters. Yes, selling a wedding cake is exactly the same bullshit because it is the door to this sewege. It's the inch and a mile thing. Because it is fucking human and how people work. Because we used to call those kind of people extremists, fanatics just a decade ago. Now, they are almost the standard issue everywhere.

You wouldn't even realise how it came to that point when it happened. Before the religious gov, abortion was legal in Turkey up to 3 months (roughly 15 years ago) it wasn't an issue, wasn't even talked about and now, while it is legal up to 2 months, it is just on paper. Women get constantly denied their right because doctors make a choice or are afraid to be fired, exiled.

No, it wouldn't be different because it is the USA. Actually, it would be worse considering the scale. It's how the US -and some other western countries- has gone backwards in the last 20 years or so, after the creation of the new boogeyman order of 'Muslims gonna get us!', making constant, absurd comparisons with Middle Eastern countries, creating a false and fake safety, boosting the worst parts of American identity...ignoring whatever is going wrong domestically in real life. It's on sterorids now.   

There is a group here. Religious, educated, don't eat cosher, enjoys alcohol, don't wear ethnic clothes, visits Europe regularly, earns good money, but doesn't skip a prayer...etc. They don't believe half the stories about the last protests or the numbers, events in the pandemic; the last 6 months of the US because they think it is the usual Islamic government propaganda of "America is a bad bad place". How is that for gaining perspective?



Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 02, 2020, 05:17:56 AM
Just to beat a dead horse some more.  If you want Biden to win, it's good to keep this stuff in mind:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/01/opinion/election-forecasts-modeling-flaws.html

QuoteThere are two broad ways to model an event: using “fundamentals” â€" mechanisms that can affect the event â€" and probabilities â€" measurements like polls.

For weather, we have fundamentals â€" advanced science on how atmospheric dynamics work â€" and years of detailed, day-by-day, even hour-by-hour data from a vast number of observation stations.


For elections, we simply do not have anything near that kind of knowledge or data. While we have some theories on what influences voters, we have no fine-grained understanding of why people vote the way they do, and what polling data we have is relatively sparse.

If I read that there is a 20 percent chance of rain and do not take an umbrella, the odds of rain coming down don’t change. Electoral modeling, by contrast, actively affects the way people behave. --[Me:  This reminds me of quantum physics.  Observing a particle changes it's behaviors.  I'm not sure if this actually happens in physics, but I'm convinced that observing election polls, changes the behavior of voters.]

Instead of refreshing the page to update predictions, people should do the only thing that actually affects the outcome: vote, donate and organize.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 02, 2020, 07:05:24 AM
It was said here that the two research companies who have successfully estimated Trump's win as opposed to the majority back then before the last election are saying Biden. I don't know which ones. It was a long, social media convo.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 02, 2020, 09:27:32 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 02, 2020, 07:05:24 AM
It was said here that the two research companies who have successfully estimated Trump's win as opposed to the majority back then before the last election are saying Biden. I don't know which ones. It was a long, social media convo.

Good summary.  Share their names if you can, so we can Burn Loot Murder ;-)  There is no morality, no legality, other than ... did I get away with it.  Your whole complicated theory of socialism is ... delusion.  It is murdering monkeys all the way down ;-)  Of course if I do it, it is right, but if you do it, it is wrong.  Hypocrisy is the smallest evil people know, we know much greater ones, like genocide.  Kill the men, rape the women, enslave the children ... it is the way.

I don't oppose civilization, I deny it even exists.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 02, 2020, 09:28:51 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 02, 2020, 12:44:39 AM
I don't suppose those social media posters have returned their $1200 Trump-endorsed bribes "stimulus checks" to the government.

Have liberals returned the riot stimulus checks to Soros?

"Oregon Is On The Verge Of Decriminalizing Heroin, Cocaine, And LSD" ... of course they do.  This has been about free drugs since 1965.

DraftKings Election Pool Alert … only Colorado predicts a nationwide Biden win.  They are all high for Biden/MJ there (an old friend lives in Boulder) ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 02, 2020, 10:36:44 PM
I wonder just how "temporary" that new fencing around the White House will turn out to be.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2020, 02:44:17 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 02, 2020, 10:36:44 PM
I wonder just how "temporary" that new fencing around the White House will turn out to be.

Long enough to distract while the Obama admin is taken to Guantanamo?

"Headstones vandalized with pro-Trump slogans in Michigan" ... Jewish headstones ... clearly done by Dems, because Trump is the most Jewish president in history, but most Jews are liberal and easily scared
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 03, 2020, 08:43:00 AM
Trump says, "See?  See what I'm up against?  This vote should be disqualified.  It was placed in the ballot box by an obviously unregistered voter.  Under Biden, perpetrators like this would go free without any jail time."

(https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic01.nyt.com%2Fimages%2F2020%2F11%2F03%2Fus%2Fpolitics%2F03onpolitics-am-newsletter%2F03onpolitics-am-newsletter-articleLarge.jpg&t=1604409823&ymreqid=eccc9188-a17a-1a5c-1c9f-520000018b00&sig=0FXGGNY494VPRezLpC146g--~D)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 03, 2020, 10:31:01 AM
Just one more day until all the political ads are gone. And hopefully, one more day until Trump knows he's fired. Still have to wait until March for him to actually be gone, though...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2020, 10:50:50 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 03, 2020, 10:31:01 AM
Just one more day until all the political ads are gone. And hopefully, one more day until Trump knows he's fired. Still have to wait until March for him to actually be gone, though...

Politics was every two years.  Since CNN invented 24x7 news (under N Vietnamese agent Jane Fonda) ... it is politics every damn day.  Since we no longer accept the results of elections, the pre-election violence will continue into post-election violence.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2020, 10:51:35 AM
Quote from: SGOS on November 03, 2020, 08:43:00 AM
Trump says, "See?  See what I'm up against?  This vote should be disqualified.  It was placed in the ballot box by an obviously unregistered voter.  Under Biden, perpetrators like this would go free without any jail time."

(https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic01.nyt.com%2Fimages%2F2020%2F11%2F03%2Fus%2Fpolitics%2F03onpolitics-am-newsletter%2F03onpolitics-am-newsletter-articleLarge.jpg&t=1604409823&ymreqid=eccc9188-a17a-1a5c-1c9f-520000018b00&sig=0FXGGNY494VPRezLpC146g--~D)

Democrats corrupting their own children ... call Hunter now!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 03, 2020, 11:18:26 AM
(https://preview.redd.it/5at3ske231x51.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=442f8a0885c44d770c79d56d60d279c892bf24ae)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 03, 2020, 11:28:02 AM
Oh...Did that happen before in any election?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 03, 2020, 11:51:27 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 03, 2020, 11:28:02 AMOh...Did that happen before in any election?
Did the sitting president place barricades around the White House and turn it into some sort of bunker?

No, (https://www.washingtonian.com/2014/09/22/white-house-security-updates-in-the-past-century/) not really. (https://www.whitehousehistory.org/press-room/press-timelines/history-of-the-white-house-fence)

White House after the Secret Service arrests a man and finds a rifle in his car (in 2014):

(https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/83f8ca2/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2048x1373+0+0/resize/840x563!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F75%2Fbb%2Fc092c04a80f283c545784912530c%2Fla-na-secret-service-arrest-man-20141119-001)

White House when King Orange is worried about his electioneering chances:

(https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/65c/7d6/87ba980e6045b97f9fca6cebd3ddfc3322-white-house.rhorizontal.w700.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2020, 11:55:39 AM
Marxists would kill millions if they weren't cucked Trots.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 03, 2020, 01:14:25 PM
Is this the People vs. Trump thread?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 03, 2020, 02:00:14 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 03, 2020, 11:28:02 AM
Oh...Did that happen before in any election?

You gotta give it to the man...

He finally managed to build a wall.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 03, 2020, 02:03:22 PM
It's an accomplishment. The people there are just bystanders looking at his accomplishment. And the people from everywhere are looking at the photograph of his accomplishment. His accomplishment is in front of all people, positioned against them because that's why it is there.

I hope everyone realises the importance of that photograph. That's not just a historical shot. It's a kind of an 'angle' no device is able to produce. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 03, 2020, 02:11:24 PM
Trump is acting like a Drama Queen.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 03, 2020, 02:18:07 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 03, 2020, 02:11:24 PM
Trump is acting like a Drama Queen.
The poor young Trump may have had 'bone spurs' all through the Vietnam War. That's tough.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 03, 2020, 02:25:31 PM
Whatever side wins, there are going to be riots.

I'll be asleep when the results get in. Best of luck, Americans.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 03, 2020, 02:30:33 PM
When the going gets tough, Trump pays someone to make it all better, and then sues in court so as to avoid actually paying.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 03, 2020, 03:19:59 PM
I'm going to bed too. Good luck. Hope nothing bad will happen afterwards.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PopeyesPappy on November 03, 2020, 04:08:21 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 03, 2020, 02:25:31 PM
Whatever side wins, there are going to be riots.

I'll be asleep when the results get in. Best of luck, Americans.

We may not know the results of this election for weeks. Months if the courts get involved. The 2000 election wasn't settled until December 12th. This one could take longer if it is close.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2020, 04:15:05 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 03, 2020, 02:18:07 PM
The poor young Trump may have had 'bone spurs' all through the Vietnam War. That's tough.

Yes, Bill Clinton was a war hero too.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2020, 04:16:10 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 03, 2020, 01:14:25 PM
Is this the People vs. Trump thread?

Deplorables don't count as people.  Non-Marxists count as state enemies ;-)

Correct about legal action.  Every single vote deserves a $1,000,000 court action.  The money made by lawyers will be epic!!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 03, 2020, 04:25:20 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 03, 2020, 03:19:59 PM
I'm going to bed too. Good luck. Hope nothing bad will happen afterwards.
I don't think anything will.  Eventually, there will be a revolution, but that's down the road yet. <knocks on wood>
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 03, 2020, 04:26:24 PM
Quote from: Baruch on November 03, 2020, 04:15:05 PM
So you volunteered for Vietnam?  For Iraq?  Not saying you had no military experience.
I joined the Army as a nurse stationed at Fort Jackson, SC where we actually had to handle some leprosy cases. When I got out I knew I never wanted to be in medicine again and went for engineering. And the difference is I don't bad mouth actual war heroes like that ass hat Trump does. I don't see how anyone in a military family would vote for that orange wuss.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2020, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 03, 2020, 04:26:24 PM
I joined the Army as a nurse stationed at Fort Jackson, SC where we actually had to handle some leprosy cases. When I got out I knew I never wanted to be in medicine again and went for engineering. And the difference is I don't bad mouth actual war heroes like that ass hat Trump does. I don't see how anyone in a military family would vote for that orange wuss.

I regretted my post and edited it.  I was 22 years as a contractor with military medicine admin.

Yes, all US military support the CCP.  It is the way ;-)

Hitler got the Iron Cross.  So heroism is a bit complicated.  Lenin and Stalin never served.  I know of no Leftist (intellectual) who ever did.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2020, 04:33:03 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 03, 2020, 04:25:20 PM
I don't think anything will.  Eventually, there will be a revolution, but that's down the road yet. <knocks on wood>

Yes, when the children rise up (Children's Crusade) and kill all the adults.  Children are the most oppressed minority ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 03, 2020, 05:35:41 PM
Before the poll results and/or latest scandal buries it:

(https://media12.s-nbcnews.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Video/202010/n_hayes_votersupression_201029_1920x1080.nbcnews-fp-1024-512.jpg)

Both NC and Pennsylvania will accept ballots for several days after Election Day, against GOP wishes (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/28/us/supreme-court-pennsylvania-north-carolina-absentee-ballots.html)

(https://preview.redd.it/framfnomztw51.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=f6f8794ef7965b97654cde3e955dd50a63ba761c)

Voter suppression is a sign of weakness.  It's a sign that the people don't support your regime.  It's a betrayal of the Republic through attacking one of its most hallowed institutions.  And finally, it's also a sign of fear.

The American people are speaking through their votes.  The GOP tried to silence their voices.  Whatever happens today, that will be bitterly remembered.  And the next time the GOP asks for votes (and the time after that and the time after that), they will be reminded of their disloyalty as their opponents' votes surge.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2020, 07:34:05 PM
Voter suppression is "all American".  But no worry, as long as we don't murder each other.  Supporting criminals and treason, is jumping the shark.  Either both parties drop the criminality and treason, or they must both be eliminated.

Had my snifter of Grand Marnier ... time for bed ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 03, 2020, 08:39:28 PM
Quote from: Baruch on November 03, 2020, 07:34:05 PM
Had my snifter of Grand Marnier ... time for bed ;-)
Gonna sip a shot of Jamison straight up, hope for peace and work on our ancestry since it seems that an EU passport is a possibility and perhaps travel will once again be a reality late '21 or sometime in '22.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 03, 2020, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 03, 2020, 04:26:24 PM
I joined the Army as a nurse stationed at Fort Jackson, SC where we actually had to handle some leprosy cases. When I got out I knew I never wanted to be in medicine again and went for engineering. And the difference is I don't bad mouth actual war heroes like that ass hat Trump does. I don't see how anyone in a military family would vote for that orange wuss.

Many are single-issue voters. All they care about is abortion. They don't realize that abortion has been on a downward trend since Row v. Wade, consistently no matter which side was in power, nor do they care if you tell them that. They also don't care that Republicans have had the majority in the Supreme Court multiple times and still chose to follow the precedent set before them. They just want their Pro-Lifers in office. Nothing else matters.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 03, 2020, 09:25:29 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 03, 2020, 02:25:31 PM
Whatever side wins, there are going to be riots.

I'll be asleep when the results get in. Best of luck, Americans.

I don't agree. If the Right loses, there are certain groups who may commit violence on Trump's behalf, but most Conservatives will just whine about it on Facebook. If the Left loses, they'll do the same thing they did last time Trump won. They will protest, not riot.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 03, 2020, 09:59:14 PM
So far, it looks like Trump and the Republicans are sweeping up the votes.  One graph I saw showed Biden ahead on electoral votes, but I think that is based on projected votes.  Actual votes so far don't seem to follow the projection.  Again this year, polls and projections don't seem to be predicting much.  But it's early.  I'm streaming this and reminded why I got rid of my TV.  Breathless fast talking teams of talking heads are annoying, and I don't think I'm going to watch this into the wee hours of the night.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 03, 2020, 10:11:42 PM
Not encouraging so far.  But be patient (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/beware-blue-mirage-red-mirage-election-night-n1245925) and wait for all the votes to come in.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 04, 2020, 01:41:53 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 03, 2020, 09:25:29 PM
I don't agree. If the Right loses, there are certain groups who may commit violence on Trump's behalf, but most Conservatives will just whine about it on Facebook.

But that's the thing. What I'm afraid is that the other side might not watch it calmly. In fact, even they win, Conservatives could act violently. Guys, be safe.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 04, 2020, 02:36:42 AM
Why is everything so familiar. We had the same thing in the local elections. The obvious party made a victory speech before the results were in. It was very close. Then re-election, re-count and they have lost.

What is he doing? Is it that certain? This alone would cause violence if he loses in the end because all those groups are now brainwashed with a Trump Victory. Like instant soup.

What is going on?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 04, 2020, 02:48:01 AM
At 2:30 it looks like Trump has it in the bag.  I've turned to the silent AP map to get away from the annoying chatter, and all that's left where Biden has a chance is Nevada and Arizona and that's only 17 electoral votes.  Maine is in contention, but even if he gets all 4 of Maine's votes (not a given), he won't get 270.  Everything else leans toward Trump.

The New York Times say it could be days counting the mail in votes in the upper midwest states that are going to Trump, but I think they just want to draw out the drama.  If Trump is already dominating Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin, it seems like the votes already in are a better sampling than most polls. Granted those votes still need to be counted if the courts allow it, and I suppose Biden could prevail, but I don't think he will.

Biden is not a strong candidate, although apparently popular among many Democrats, but I still thought he had a chance against Trump.  A record breaking turnout also draws out the conservatives, not just Democrats as we have been taught to believe.  And Trump not only resonates with conservatives, he also delivers to them more than any president I can remember.

The Associated Press has not called it yet, but I think the writing is on the wall.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on November 04, 2020, 04:26:46 AM
I'm scared and hurt of the sheer number of votes in favor of Trump and the republicans.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 04, 2020, 04:30:04 AM
I was expecting a Trump victory. But being right does nothing to lift my spirits.

At least: think of the mêmes.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 04, 2020, 05:42:33 AM
My brother's American gf has resigned her phone, due to the stress as the votes are being counted.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 04, 2020, 05:58:50 AM
I woke up and checked my investments first, saw they were flat, market confused, and so I knew the election was down to the wire. I think perhaps polling hurts the party that is ahead at the time by cooling down their voters and by energizing the lagging party. And of course Trump declared victory too early and is proclaiming 'fraud' as expected. However right now it doesn't look all that good for Biden and it seems congress will remain as b4 and the only blue wave will be those gasping for air in emergency rooms.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 04, 2020, 07:09:09 AM
This mornings NYT:

QuoteJoe Biden is now the favorite to win the presidency, and Republicans are favored to keep Senate control

https://mail.yahoo.com/b/folders/1/messages/AKFBfvEMpDiIX6KWGgMNQKw4Toc?.src=ym&reason=unsupported_browser&folderType=INBOX&showImages=true&offset=0&domain=nytimes.com



Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 04, 2020, 07:14:13 AM
The above is speculation.  I put as much stock in it as I do my own speculations or those polls that came before.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 04, 2020, 08:33:51 AM
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on November 04, 2020, 04:26:46 AM
I'm scared and hurt of the sheer number of votes in favor of Trump and the republicans.

I hope you can get over the fact that you are the only you, and the rest of us aren't you, though in politics birds of a feather flock together.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 04, 2020, 08:35:34 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 04, 2020, 04:30:04 AM
I was expecting a Trump victory. But being right does nothing to lift my spirits.

At least: think of the mêmes.

Not true.  2020 is a repeat of 2000 and 2016. ... surprise, suprise.  Utopia hasn't arrived, and never will.  Regressives and Progressives ignore human nature and human history.  America was a mess, and remains a mess the morning after.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 04, 2020, 08:36:56 AM
Quote from: Cassia on November 04, 2020, 05:58:50 AM
I woke up and checked my investments first, saw they were flat, market confused, and so I knew the election was down to the wire. I think perhaps polling hurts the party that is ahead at the time by cooling down their voters and by energizing the lagging party. And of course Trump declared victory too early and is proclaiming 'fraud' as expected. However right now it doesn't look all that good for Biden and it seems congress will remain as b4 and the only blue wave will be those gasping for air in emergency rooms.

Perfect for the markets.  A Blue Wave or Red Wave bet was a sucker bet.  The markets flourish on volatility, not long term trends.  The Great Reset aka worldwide electronic slavery to the Elite.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 04, 2020, 08:39:01 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 04, 2020, 01:41:53 AM
But that's the thing. What I'm afraid is that the other side might not watch it calmly. In fact, even they win, Conservatives could act violently. Guys, be safe.

"Conservatives bad, liberals good" - Og ... humans are still in the "stoned" age.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 04, 2020, 08:39:51 AM
Quote from: Cassia on November 03, 2020, 08:39:28 PM
Gonna sip a shot of Jamison straight up, hope for peace and work on our ancestry since it seems that an EU passport is a possibility and perhaps travel will once again be a reality late '21 or sometime in '22.

Only if you get the "human is property" pass they are devising.  Lysenkoism, with that "political" pass you can be on an airplane, coughing up Ebola and still be OK.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 04, 2020, 08:55:47 AM
Seriously, fuck this country and the people who think Trump's behavior has been anything resembling acceptable. After all the shit he said and did, this should have been a landslide in Biden's favor.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on November 04, 2020, 09:09:45 AM
The people who were afraid to go the poles in person are having their votes counted now. T.rump couldn't stop that. He will try to  upset it, and that's the real test of our system right now.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 04, 2020, 09:31:39 AM
So...a lot to unpack about this election while I'm calm enough to type it out.

For starters, the polling is deeply flawed.  No doubt about that.  I'm decisively in the wrong about polling. 
Whoever was skeptical about the polls going into this election was absolutely right.

I hooked my ship up to 538 and boy, were those forecasts incorrect.  538 gave Biden a 90% chance of winning.  The Economist gave Biden a whopping 97% chance of winning.  Biden was up 8 points nationally - a steady and sustained lead since May.  He polled better in much of the battleground states as well - up 5 points in Pennsylvania, 8 points in Michigan, 8 points in Wisconsin, 9 points in Minnesota.  So even if the polls are off by 3-4 points, that's still a Biden lead.  Apparently not!

So riddle me this:
*  Record-breaking turnout (which tends to favor the Dems)
*  Independent voters favor the Dems
*  Historically unpopular incumbent
*  Massive unemployment (which tends to favor the challenger)
*  Horrific crisis that's people's #1 concern and the incumbent says it's no big deal, goes golfing, hosts superspreader events, praises demon sperm lady, gets sick himself, then blames China.  I mean FFS people...
* Incumbent reportedly slipping with some of his demographics
* Challenger leads in the polls

Election Night result: (Probable) Incumbent victory

How the hell does that happen?  If anyone has a guess, lay it on me.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 04, 2020, 09:46:24 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 04, 2020, 02:36:42 AM
Why is everything so familiar. We had the same thing in the local elections. The obvious party made a victory speech before the results were in. It was very close. Then re-election, re-count and they have lost.

What is he doing? Is it that certain? This alone would cause violence if he loses in the end because all those groups are now brainwashed with a Trump Victory. Like instant soup.

What is going on?
I have absolutely no idea, and that scares me.

This is like The Mule in the Foundation Series, except with no Second Foundation to bail us out.  Today, Hari Seldon's hologram is turning on and he's currently telling us to transition our economy away from fossil fuels, repair our strained relationships with our allies, watch out for an incoming wave of knuckle-dragging democratic backsliding, and resist authoritarian "strongmen" who might try to claw their way to power.

I can safely say that it is every bit as shocking and disheartening in real life as it was in the books.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 04, 2020, 10:31:34 AM
One final thing, all the ballots aren't in yet, and it's not a done deal till they are:

https://twitter.com/onikasgivenchy/status/1323857811734933504
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on November 04, 2020, 12:05:24 PM
I hate the red states
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 04, 2020, 01:01:47 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on November 04, 2020, 12:05:24 PMI hate the red states
Some of the red states are getting bluer and vice versa.  NC, Georgia, Arizona are all toss-ups.  Meanwhile, the Great Lakes states plus Pennsylvania are no longer reliably blue.

It's not too late to pull an India (circa 1947) and breakup into the United States of Canada and Jesusland.  Educated southerners could move north and the inverse could move south.  Both parties are dying to run a simple experiment: does a Western european-style democracy or a theocratic state (with fascist undertones) fare better in the world?  We could settle that question once and for all.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 04, 2020, 02:35:19 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on November 04, 2020, 12:05:24 PM
I hate the red states

China can have the blue states ;-)

Half of America hated the other half, in 1860.  They still do, but they can move around ... because cars.  The British and French Empires were tempted to intervene on behalf of the Democrats.  The Russian Empire prevented that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 04, 2020, 02:35:57 PM
Meanwhile in the Middle East...Turkish Trump supporters and Biden supporters here have been insulting, cussing and cursing each other the whole day. It's disgusting. Also the fascist group banned by the French a few days ago has been supporting Trump very loudly and moronically considering the slogans, wtf? They sound like they want to adopt him.

I wouldn't be surprised if violence broke out. Oh everything is so stupid.



Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 04, 2020, 02:37:20 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 04, 2020, 02:35:57 PM
Meanwhile in the Middle East...Trump supporters and Biden supporters here have been insulting, cussing and cursing each other the whole day. It's disgusting. Also the fascist group banned by the French a few days ago has been supporting Trump very loudly and moronically considering the slogans, wtf? They sound like they want to adopt him.

I wouldn't be surprised if violence broke out. Oh everything is so stupid.

That isn't nothing compared to how much America hates non-American countries ;-)  There is a reason why we were isolationist in 1940.  I am odd man out on that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 04, 2020, 03:08:15 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 04, 2020, 02:35:57 PM
Meanwhile in the Middle East...Turkish Trump supporters and Biden supporters here have been insulting, cussing and cursing each other the whole day. It's disgusting. Also the fascist group banned by the French a few days ago has been supporting Trump very loudly and moronically considering the slogans, wtf? They sound like they want to adopt him.

I wouldn't be surprised if violence broke out. Oh everything is so stupid.

The world of stupid
Man kills man who kills again
The ride never ends
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 04, 2020, 03:42:14 PM
I just had to cash out and sell some shares today (very unexpectedly.)  Nothing makes sense anymore.
(https://i.ibb.co/XYvQKZG/qvsxofhmb8x51.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 04, 2020, 05:04:02 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 04, 2020, 03:08:15 PM
The world of stupid
Man kills man who kills again
The ride never ends

Do you morally judge cats and dogs?

The longer it takes ... particularly if the SCOTUS has to judge it, as in 2000, the higher stocks will go.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 04, 2020, 05:08:58 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 04, 2020, 02:35:57 PM
Meanwhile in the Middle East...Turkish Trump supporters and Biden supporters here have been insulting, cussing and cursing each other the whole day.
Is...is that a thing?  I've been so preoccupied with US politics that you could tell me that all of South America got swallowed up by the sea and I'd probably take your word for it.  Also, 3 hours sleep.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 04, 2020, 05:18:47 PM
Well having gotten my predictions all wrong, all I can say is this is a Hell of a ride.  And after making a big deal about going to bed, I couldn't sleep.  I think you got more than I did.  I was up making coffee before midnight.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 04, 2020, 05:21:41 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 04, 2020, 05:08:58 PM
Is...is that a thing?  I've been so preoccupied with US politics that you could tell me that all of South America got swallowed up by the sea and I'd probably take your word for it.  Also, 3 hours sleep.

It's real. Most of the people are watching the US elections and fighting about it here. Well, that can't be called a discussion.  Biden doesn't have real supporters, it is more like Trump supporters and people against Trump and his supporters.

So I didn't really know what to say to the pic you have posted -or SGOS's question- lol. Trump vs People? It's so weird, I don't know what to think about anything.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 04, 2020, 05:23:41 PM
Hang in there.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 04, 2020, 05:28:03 PM
Trump is petitioning the court to stop the ballot counting in Michigan?  This is crazy.  Just stop counting before Biden gets ahead.  The scary thing is I'm never surprised by some of the shit the courts do:  "Sure, sure.  We'll halt the ballot counting.  It's the only fair thing to do for you, Mr. Trump."  I think Trump wants a riot.  More chaos.  More excitement.  More fodder for an SNL skit.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 04, 2020, 05:45:24 PM
Just like 2000, hang all the Chads.  I feel sorry for those guys ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 04, 2020, 06:20:56 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 04, 2020, 05:28:03 PMTrump is petitioning the court to stop the ballot counting in Michigan?  This is crazy.  Just stop counting before Biden gets ahead.  The scary thing is I'm never surprised by some of the shit the courts do:  "Sure, sure.  We'll halt the ballot counting.  It's the only fair thing to do for you, Mr. Trump."  I think Trump wants a riot.  More chaos.  More excitement.  More fodder for an SNL skit.
That could be a good thing.  It means Trump thinks the remaining votes are not in his favor, which is good news for Biden.  And that sort of disenfranchisement would surely result in a lengthy legal battle and that sort of power grabbing behavior would surely de-legitimize Trump.

That sounds better in my head, where idealism isn't trampled over by goosestepping battalions of cultists and enablers and forgotten in a week.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 04, 2020, 07:25:50 PM
It feels like, as it happened with the first one, he doesn't actually expect to win but just been acting around from the beginning.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 05, 2020, 01:41:52 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 04, 2020, 09:31:39 AM
How the hell does that happen?  If anyone has a guess, lay it on me.
Been trying to sort that one out myself.  Polling isn't an exact science, but it is a science.  I have heard anecdotal evidence that Republicans are less likely to respond to a pollster (and one idiot on another forum I'm on who proudly admits he deliberately lies to pollsters) but can that really be widespread enough for this kind of variance?

It may be a phenomenon with Trump's cult of personality and might disappear if (I'm not confident in the GOP enough to say 'when', especially when the early buzz about who they might run in 2024 is Tucker Carlson) they run a more normal candidate again.

Republican politicians need accurate poll numbers too, so this isn't just something they can sit back and enjoy.  Either the pollsters will find the systemic flaw, or it'll go away when Trump does, and they don't want to be blindsided by assuming there's a hidden five point swing in their favor and finding out there isn't anymore.

Mostly I think it's a function of Trump's cult of personality and the mindless devotion of his base, and this is a danger sign for the GOP in the future, because they don't really have another Trump waiting in the wings who whips up the same levels of religious-type fervor.  If (when, preferably) he loses this year, and when (not if) the party elders try to reassert control, he very well might threaten to take his followers and set up Trump: The Party.

Whither the GOP then?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 05, 2020, 01:59:28 AM
News is a bit dodgy here, and not up to date. But is it true that Biden took Michigan? And if he takes Nevada, with 6 representatives, does he win?
The news as far as I can see it says he has 264 out of the needed 270. And he's leading be it marginally, in Nevada.
I don't want to get my hopes up just to get them dashed again.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 05, 2020, 05:37:35 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 05, 2020, 01:59:28 AM
News is a bit dodgy here, and not up to date. But is it true that Biden took Michigan? And if he takes Nevada, with 6 representatives, does he win?
The news as far as I can see it says he has 264 out of the needed 270. And he's leading be it marginally, in Nevada.
I don't want to get my hopes up just to get them dashed again.
That's what I read.  However, I'm cautious about this because I've read headlines that Biden won Michigan, Wisconsin, and Arizona before he actually won them.  Yesterday, I even got a message from the Democratic Party saying Biden had won the election, so there's a lot of unofficial bullshit out there.  Trump declared he won the election two days ago, and that made it to the headlines too.  The Associated Press does call winners before all votes are counted, but they are pretty fussy about the way they do it. Still, they can make mistakes.  I'm cautiously, very cautiously, optimistic that Biden could win the election at this point.  Two days ago, I thought Trump had it in the bag.  Now it's doubtful.

But if Biden wins Wisconsin, Arizona, and Nevada, he "wins" is it's pretty much what I'm reading now.  Yesterday, the source I follow had him as "won" Arizona, but all this stuff is constantly changing, it could change in the time it takes to post.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 05, 2020, 05:44:12 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 04, 2020, 09:31:39 AM
...
How the hell does that happen?  If anyone has a guess, lay it on me.

From what I have read, there isn't consensus at this point why so many polls were off. From the New York Times:

Not every pollster fared poorly. Ann Selzer, long considered one of the top pollsters in the country, released a poll with The Des Moines Register days before the election showing Mr. Trump opening up a seven-point lead in Iowa; that appears to be in line with the actual result thus far.

In an interview, Ms. Selzer said that this election season she had stuck to her usual process, which involves avoiding assumptions that one year’s electorate will resemble those of previous years. “Our method is designed for our data to reveal to us what is happening with the electorate,” she said. “There are some that will weight their data taking into account many things â€" past election voting, what the turnout was, things from the past in order to project into the future. I call that polling backwards, and I don’t do it.”
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 05, 2020, 06:13:07 AM
QuoteHow the hell does that happen?  If anyone has a guess, lay it on me.
It's easy to overthink this, but my first thought is that Trump has a very strong and passionate following.  While I can't understand why, it's easy to see that he does.  A record turnout probably helps Democrats, but it does not lessen Trump's staggering, if un-explainable popularity.  Biden does not have this sort of energy behind him.  Many Democrats and most disaffected liberals are voting for him mostly because he's not Trump.  This is not the kind of energy that leads to an overwhelming rout in an election.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 05, 2020, 09:44:34 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 05, 2020, 01:59:28 AM
News is a bit dodgy here, and not up to date. But is it true that Biden took Michigan? And if he takes Nevada, with 6 representatives, does he win?
The news as far as I can see it says he has 264 out of the needed 270. And he's leading be it marginally, in Nevada.
I don't want to get my hopes up just to get them dashed again.

Probably, Biden has 50.6 % ... not that elections matter anymore or ever did.  But several states are contested, so it is unlikely either will get over 270 until the SCOTUS decides.   Which means whatever the CIA has decided.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 05, 2020, 10:17:13 AM
Quote from: SGOS on November 05, 2020, 05:37:35 AM
That's what I read.  However, I'm cautious about this because I've read headlines that Biden won Michigan, Wisconsin, and Arizona before he actually won them.  Yesterday, I even got a message from the Democratic Party saying Biden had won the election, so there's a lot of unofficial bullshit out there.  Trump declared he won the election two days ago, and that made it to the headlines too.  The Associated Press does call winners before all votes are counted, but they are pretty fussy about the way they do it. Still, they can make mistakes.  I'm cautiously, very cautiously, optimistic that Biden could win the election at this point.  Two days ago, I thought Trump had it in the bag.  Now it's doubtful.

But if Biden wins Wisconsin, Arizona, and Nevada, he "wins" is it's pretty much what I'm reading now.  Yesterday, the source I follow had him as "won" Arizona, but all this stuff is constantly changing, it could change in the time it takes to post.
Fox, the AP and the BBC have called Arizona for Biden, and Fox's call prompting a screaming purple fit over the phone at Rupert Murdoch by the Mango Mussolini (https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/05/donald-trump-screamed-at-rupert-murdoch-over-fox-election-report-13540613/); Wisconsin and Michigan have been called for Biden by the AP.  At this point, any of Nevada, Pennsylvania or Georgia will seal the deal; Biden currently leads in Nevada, and is rapidly closing the gap in both PA and GA, though whether that's going to be enough remains to be seen.  So of course Lord Dampnut's legal team is demanding they stop the count while he's still ahead, because voting is only a right if you vote for who he wants.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 05, 2020, 10:31:57 AM
Mango Mussolini, LOL.  That is good. Tangerine Idi Amin was another that made me chuckle. There is a whole reddit just for such a thing. Dоиаld Ñ,гцмр, LOL. Sorry, I obviously have too much free time lately.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TrumpNicknames/
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 05, 2020, 10:38:27 AM
Some people have an obsession about Russia.  Probably they want Putin to "do" them.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 05, 2020, 10:46:45 AM
Quote from: trdsf on November 05, 2020, 10:17:13 AM
Biden ... is rapidly closing the gap in both PA and GA
I heard that on NPR this morning.  Two days ago, I thought both those states were forgone conclusions for Trump. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 05, 2020, 10:58:38 AM
Quote from: trdsf on November 05, 2020, 10:17:13 AMFox, the AP and the BBC have called Arizona for Biden
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with that news, but I'm looking at the New York Times map and it has Biden with a ~2% lead in Arizona with only 86% of the results.  Does AP have more recent info?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 05, 2020, 11:11:48 AM
Quote from: SGOS on November 05, 2020, 06:13:07 AMA record turnout probably helps Democrats, but it does not lessen Trump's staggering, if un-explainable popularity.
But it should.  It really should.

Let's assume that everyone who voted for Trump in 2016 is back at the same trough in 2020.  Can't fix stupid.

There were a TON of people who voted in 2020 who didn't vote in 2016.  They didn't drink the Trump flavor aid.  And if that vote accurately reflects the presidential approval/disapproval polls, that's enough to crush Trump in the battleground states, states that he just barely won in 2016.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 05, 2020, 12:46:29 PM
I doubt I'll believe the election result until I see who gets inaugurated in January.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 05, 2020, 12:53:54 PM
Quote from: Baruch on November 05, 2020, 10:38:27 AM
Some people have an obsession about Russia.  Probably they want Putin to "do" them.
Trump would like that. Also, some people are idiots too. And some are not as smart as that. It's OK because they don't even know it!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 05, 2020, 01:10:14 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 05, 2020, 10:31:57 AM
Mango Mussolini, LOL.  That is good. Tangerine Idi Amin was another that made me chuckle. There is a whole reddit just for such a thing. Dоиаld Ñ,гцмр, LOL. Sorry, I obviously have too much free time lately.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TrumpNicknames/

President Tweety😊
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 05, 2020, 01:36:44 PM
Strike and stirke and strike and strike and strik x 100 till you have victory...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1324175651515949056
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 05, 2020, 01:38:02 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 05, 2020, 11:11:48 AM
But it should.  It really should.

Let's assume that everyone who voted for Trump in 2016 is back at the same trough in 2020.  Can't fix stupid.

There were a TON of people who voted in 2020 who didn't vote in 2016.  They didn't drink the Trump flavor aid.  And if that vote accurately reflects the presidential approval/disapproval polls, that's enough to crush Trump in the battleground states, states that he just barely won in 2016.
I actually made a half ass comparison by comparing Biden numbers to Trump popularity.  They are two different things that don't equate.  So what did I really mean?  First, what we actually do know is that it was a record turnout and both parties managed to get roughly equal numbers to the polls. That's where my facts end.

So the record turnout can only be half accounted for by the addition of lazy Democrats (not voting thinking Clinton was sure to win) and disaffected liberals (who have given up on the Democratic Party).  I think that's our assumption, and I believe Trump's behavior was abhorrent enough to warrant that assumption.  There could be other assumptions that work better.

So the remaining question is what woke up the half interested Republicans and got them to the polls this time?  The only thing I can think of is increased popularity of Trump.  Why?  That's a hard question, but we do know Republicans and potential Republicans were motivated.  And the "why" question can more accurately be answered by his constituents.  It's also possible that lazy Republicans and potential non-voting Republicans read the coming blue wave correctly and responded to it.  But I favor the popularity theory.  I think he did a lot for Republicans.  He woke up elements of our society and changed the country dramatically, not necessarily in what I consider good ways, but he made changes, and that in itself is extraordinary for a president IMO.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 05, 2020, 01:55:49 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 05, 2020, 01:38:02 PMSo the remaining question is what woke up the half interested Republicans and got them to the polls this time?  The only thing I can think of is increased popularity of Trump.  Why?  That's a hard question, but we do know Republicans and potential Republicans were motivated.  And the "why" question can more accurately be answered by his constituents.  It's also possible that lazy Republicans and potential non-voting Republicans read the coming blue wave correctly and responded to it.  But I favor the popularity theory.  I think he did a lot for Republicans.  He woke up elements of our society and changed the country dramatically, not necessarily in what I consider good ways, but he made changes, and that in itself is extraordinary for a president IMO.
Trump certainly took over the Republican Party (9 out of 10 support) and Trump certainly did his all to dominate the airwaves and connect with Republicans - through parasocial twitter relationships and through nonstop rallies, even during the pandemic (RIP Herman Cain).  Trump doesn't so much have constituents as he does adoring fans.  Republicans and Democrats certainly differ there.

But even if every conservative in the US is pro-Trump (35-40% of the US, iirc), that's still not enough to account for the election results.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 05, 2020, 02:04:22 PM
Okay, I found data that makes the election results make sense (https://news.gallup.com/poll/275792/remained-center-right-ideologically-2019.aspx).  Though it's from polls (I wish I could quit you)

(https://cdn.mrctv.org/files/images/gp1_0.png)

Look familiar?

Bonus map:
[spoiler](https://i.imgur.com/l8XkIRd.png)[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 05, 2020, 02:09:02 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 05, 2020, 01:36:44 PM
Strike and stirke and strike and strike and strik x 100 till you have victory...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1324175651515949056
https://twitter.com/Soapmoine/status/1324286193106898944

Actually pretty entertaining if you ignore what she's supporting.  I wish more people reacted like that guy in the back instead of encouraging this sort of cultish magical thinking.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 05, 2020, 02:18:37 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 05, 2020, 02:04:22 PM
Okay, I found data that makes the election results make sense (https://news.gallup.com/poll/275792/remained-center-right-ideologically-2019.aspx).  Though it's from polls (I wish I could quit you)

(https://cdn.mrctv.org/files/images/gp1_0.png)

Look familiar?

Bonus map:
[spoiler](https://i.imgur.com/l8XkIRd.png)[/spoiler]

I legit can't read that map. I can't see the difference in color between 'More conservative than average' and 'about average'.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 05, 2020, 02:43:28 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 05, 2020, 02:09:02 PM
https://twitter.com/Soapmoine/status/1324286193106898944

Actually pretty entertaining if you ignore what she's supporting.  I wish more people reacted like that guy in the back instead of encouraging this sort of cultish magical thinking.

Yeah...but isn't this better? E: Hydra, apparently, he is her son...LOL

https://twitter.com/i/status/1324299839140605953/video/1


Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 05, 2020, 03:07:43 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 05, 2020, 01:55:49 PM
But even if every conservative in the US is pro-Trump (35-40% of the US, iirc), that's still not enough to account for the election results.
It that percentage cannot account for Trump Support, then I don't know where else that support comes from.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 05, 2020, 03:54:58 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 05, 2020, 03:07:43 PM
It that percentage cannot account for Trump Support, then I don't know where else that support comes from.
Low-information voters?  Even then, I don't see how anyone who's been through the last 4 years could possibly want seconds.  Apparently, they do though.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 05, 2020, 04:02:10 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 05, 2020, 02:18:37 PMI legit can't read that map. I can't see the difference in color between 'More conservative than average' and 'about average'.
You might have some form of color blindness where pink is indistinguishable from gray.  Or a bad screen.

Pink (more conservative than normal): Ohio, Kentucky, North Carolina, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona
Gray (about average): Pennsylvania, Virginia, Florida, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, Colorado, Nevada
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 05, 2020, 04:17:20 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 05, 2020, 04:02:10 PM
You might have some form of color blindness where pink is indistinguishable from gray.  Or a bad screen.

Pink (more conservative than normal): Ohio, Kentucky, North Carolina, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona
Gray (about average): Pennsylvania, Virginia, Florida, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, Colorado, Nevada

Both. I cn tell the difference on my phone, I can see now.
But I do have daltonisme.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 05, 2020, 06:34:01 PM
(https://scontent.fhou1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/123421141_10157986287821275_615843741092209020_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=fM_rsEqoHEEAX_czm6f&_nc_ht=scontent.fhou1-1.fna&oh=c4b2442d394408b9ca4fa09ea6d45206&oe=5FCA9F13)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 05, 2020, 06:39:17 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 05, 2020, 04:17:20 PM
Both. I cn tell the difference on my phone, I can see now.
But I do have daltonisme.
I have what has been termed red/green color blindness.  It's not that I can't tell colors, for I can.  Just don't ask me to see the same color as you do.  I find that red and brown are near impossible to tell apart.  I flunked coloring in the 2nd grade because I was always coloring the trunk of trees red and the leaves brown.  I also can mix up red and green and blue.  When we were first married, my wife would say something like--did you like that blue shirt that guy was wearing?, and I'd say--what blue shirt???  And those color tests with bubbles of various sizes in which one is supposed to see numbers appearing--those are all constructed just to fuck me over.  Could never see any numbers.  Didn't keep me out of the Army tho. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 05, 2020, 07:01:16 PM
Trump's in the middle of a statement right now, trying to declare himself the winner. He's using very disturbing language. He says he wins with the "legal" votes, and says the votes that favor Biden are "illegal." If he had a real case, he'd go to the courts, not throwing a fit on national TV. If you're an American citizen, you should be very disturbed by this kind of behavior.

Now he's threatening to take this to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court which he has placed three people in, two positions of which he stole. Our democracy is being threatened before our eyes.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 05, 2020, 07:21:21 PM
This isn't a surprise, of course. He's been setting up this moment for months. Casting doubt in mail-in votes, declaring them fraudulent by nature. He couldn't even accept that he lost the popular vote in 2016. He was convinced the votes that brought Hillary ahead of Trump in the popular vote, which didn't even matter anyway, were fraudulent. He couldn't even concede that point. He was never going to accept any result except for his victory. He's going to try to take this to the Supreme Court, his cronies there will support him, and our democracy will be destroyed, if things continue as they do now.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 05, 2020, 07:25:43 PM
I guess I vastly underestimated the nature of mail in Ballots.  I didn't realize how the representation of Democrats would be so dramatically skewed by this form of voting.  Maybe a little, but not enough to matter.

Quote from: Blackleaf on November 05, 2020, 07:01:16 PM
Trump's in the middle of a statement right now, trying to declare himself the winner. He's using very disturbing language. He says he wins with the "legal" votes, and says the votes that favor Biden are "illegal." If he had a real case, he'd go to the courts, not throwing a fit on national TV. If you're an American citizen, you should be very disturbed by this kind of behavior.

Now he's threatening to take this to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court which he has placed three people in, two positions of which he stole. Our democracy is being threatened before our eyes.
I hope I can find a video of that.

I asked a friend the other day if he may have thought Trump might be getting progressively more unhinged in the last few months.  He said he absolutely noticed that.  I was wondering if it was just me.  SNL is going to be a must watch this weekend.  What a week, a totally insane week.  I mean 'insane' as in, "I feel like I'm living in an asylum, and the leader of the place is nuttier than the inmates.  Will things ever be normal again?"
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 05, 2020, 07:29:53 PM
Trump has set a disgusting new standard for Republicans. I don't see things going back to normal when nearly half of the country thinks Trump's behavior in these four years have been anything less than disgraceful. Things are about to get messy. Don't be surprised if Trump's loyal cronies start committing acts of terrorism in his name.

"Stand back and stand by."

All he has to do is give the order.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 05, 2020, 07:42:33 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 05, 2020, 07:25:43 PMI hope I can find a video of that.

Here you go. Skip to 26:25.

https://youtu.be/CyiOD3cirgE?t=1585
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 05, 2020, 08:16:05 PM
Worst case ... either the Trump crime family rubs out the Clinton/Biden etc crime families, or Michael Corleone will have to hide out in Sicily for awhile.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 05, 2020, 08:58:20 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/hfru5qD.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 05, 2020, 10:00:03 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 05, 2020, 10:46:45 AM
I heard that on NPR this morning.  Two days ago, I thought both those states were forgone conclusions for Trump.
As of 21.30ET, the gap in Georgia is 1900 votes with about 50,000 left to count.  in PA it's 42,000 with about 400,000 left to count.  He needs to capture 55% of the remaining votes in Pennsylvania... and they're counting the mail-in ballots which heavily lean Democratic.  In Georgia, he only needs to outpace 52% of the remaining ballots to take the lead, and about all that's left to count are the mail-ins, which trend Democratic, and Atlanta... which trends Democratic. And so far, the leads in Nevada and Arizona are holding up.

I'd say 'fingers crossed', but I don't want to give in to superstition.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 06, 2020, 01:10:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/0UUUid3.png)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 02:54:22 AM
Most of the protests seem to agree that all the votes should be counted, but the composition of each protest seems to vary inversely with which candidate is doing better at any particular time.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 06, 2020, 04:07:17 AM
Well, I was expecting him to declare cheating and all, BUT did he just say interference by 'the big media, big money and big tech?! Holly molly cockwrappers... He really knows his base, doesn't he?




Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 08:24:02 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 06, 2020, 04:07:17 AM
Well, I was expecting him to declare cheating and all, BUT did he just say interference by 'the big media, big money and big tech?! Holly molly cockwrappers... He really knows his base, doesn't he?
He's projecting his own morality onto others, and it's something he does frequently.  It's not an uncommon human psychological defense mechanism.  People do it, usually at an unconscious level,  but projecting one's own faults onto others must be something in the Guidebook For Good Republicans, because they seem to have elevated it to an art form.  I always wonder if they are aware of it and doing it with forethought, or if they do it without knowing.  It doesn't make any difference.  It's offensive either way.

Traditionally, Republicans have gotten their financial support from corporations, but in the case of Trump, I suspect he has experienced a falloff from his corporate donors, who don't expect him to be around much longer.  It would make more financial sense for CEOs to give that money to senators, because Trump's chances for election have always been iffy. 

As far as cheating, it's always suspected, even by both parties, but until there is actual evidence, no one knows if it happens or not.  If Trump had evidence, he would give it now.  Politicians are great at making claims, but not so good at actually proving anything.  I suppose they don't need proof.  Poisoning the well is enough for their purposes.  False information throws voters into confusion, and that's all they need.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 06, 2020, 08:33:30 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/03/election-ballot-delays-usps/
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 08:42:54 AM
Biden leads in Georgia this morning.  Georgia!  That's almost bigger news than him winning the election.

https://mail.yahoo.com/b/folders/1/messages/ADiItY02geCkX6U7BAd9-HkDHvQ?.src=ym&reason=unsupported_browser&folderType=INBOX&showImages=true&offset=0&domain=nytimes.com
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 06, 2020, 08:49:28 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 06, 2020, 04:07:17 AM
Well, I was expecting him to declare cheating and all, BUT did he just say interference by 'the big media, big money and big tech?! Holly molly cockwrappers... He really knows his base, doesn't he?
Hmmmm...................'cockwrappers'.............hadn't heard that one before. :)))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 08:56:39 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 06, 2020, 08:49:28 AM
Hmmmm...................'cockwrappers'.............hadn't heard that one before. :)))
No, but it gets the point across.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 09:25:21 AM
QuoteBreaking News: Joe Biden has taken the lead in Pennsylvania as the state continues to tally votes. A win there would give him a majority of electoral votes.
In the wee hours of election night when I scanned the map for data on states, Trump was 6 points ahead in Pennsylvania (or was it 8 points).  This year in some ways resembles 2016, which hourly diary went something like:

09 PM Hillary projected to win!
10 PM Hillary projected to win!
11 PM Hillary projected to win! 
12 AM Hillary projected to win!
01 AM Hillary projected to win!
02 AM Hillary projected to win!
03 AM Hillary projected to win!
04 AM Trump wins election!

Well, I guess when it comes down to it, it's quite different.  The only similarity being the end may surprise us.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 09:30:22 AM
In all other presidential elections both the winner and the loser have called for unity.  They probably seldom mean it, but at least they say it.  I don't see that happening this year.  Win or lose, Trump will continue trying to divide the country, because that's what he thrives on.  That's about my only prediction for the next four years.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 06, 2020, 09:44:14 AM
Quote from: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 09:30:22 AM
In all other presidential elections both the winner and the loser have called for unity.  They probably seldom mean it, but at least they say it.  I don't see that happening this year.  Win or lose, Trump will continue trying to divide the country, because that's what he thrives on.  That's about my only prediction for the next four years.
I am concerned that if Biden wins, trump will call out the dogs--he will urge his white nationalist friends to violence.  He may think being able to declare martial law, or something like it, will allow him to be frozen in his presidency for awhile.  He may hope that that would keep him out of jail--and he'd have nothing to lose by trying it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2020, 09:59:01 AM
Quote from: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 09:30:22 AM
In all other presidential elections both the winner and the loser have called for unity.  They probably seldom mean it, but at least they say it.  I don't see that happening this year.  Win or lose, Trump will continue trying to divide the country, because that's what he thrives on.  That's about my only prediction for the next four years.

Not in 1860.  Not in 1800.  Rose colored glasses you wear.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2020, 09:59:59 AM
Quote from: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 08:24:02 AM
He's projecting his own morality onto others, and it's something he does frequently.  It's not an uncommon human psychological defense mechanism.  People do it, usually at an unconscious level,  but projecting one's own faults onto others must be something in the Guidebook For Good Republicans, because they seem to have elevated it to an art form.  I always wonder if they are aware of it and doing it with forethought, or if they do it without knowing.  It doesn't make any difference.  It's offensive either way.

Traditionally, Republicans have gotten their financial support from corporations, but in the case of Trump, I suspect he has experienced a falloff from his corporate donors, who don't expect him to be around much longer.  It would make more financial sense for CEOs to give that money to senators, because Trump's chances for election have always been iffy. 

As far as cheating, it's always suspected, even by both parties, but until there is actual evidence, no one knows if it happens or not.  If Trump had evidence, he would give it now.  Politicians are great at making claims, but not so good at actually proving anything.  I suppose they don't need proof.  Poisoning the well is enough for their purposes.  False information throws voters into confusion, and that's all they need.

Bill and Hillary got no money from Wall Street ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2020, 10:01:13 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 06, 2020, 01:10:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/0UUUid3.png)

Every human ever ... rotten to the core
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2020, 10:01:52 AM
Quote from: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 02:54:22 AM
Most of the protests seem to agree that all the votes should be counted, but the composition of each protest seems to vary inversely with which candidate is doing better at any particular time.

Rule by Mob.  Irish mob, Italian mob etc.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2020, 10:02:41 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 06, 2020, 04:07:17 AM
Well, I was expecting him to declare cheating and all, BUT did he just say interference by 'the big media, big money and big tech?! Holly molly cockwrappers... He really knows his base, doesn't he?

Is Turkish media free and fair?  Media are degenerate grifters.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2020, 10:03:25 AM
Quote from: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 08:56:39 AM
No, but it gets the point across.

Potty mouth?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2020, 10:03:52 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 06, 2020, 09:44:14 AM
I am concerned that if Biden wins, trump will call out the dogs--he will urge his white nationalist friends to violence.  He may think being able to declare martial law, or something like it, will allow him to be frozen in his presidency for awhile.  He may hope that that would keep him out of jail--and he'd have nothing to lose by trying it.

I want Chinese invasion.  The price of chicken fried rice will lower.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 06, 2020, 11:00:04 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWRhLW7Y8w

Interesting...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2020, 11:04:38 AM
There are calls for a Trump dictatorship ... I am hoping it won't happen.  Being forced to read every Presidential tweet would be torture ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 06, 2020, 11:09:51 AM
Quote from: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 08:24:02 AM
... Traditionally, Republicans have gotten their financial support from corporations, but in the case of Trump, I suspect he has experienced a falloff from his corporate donors, who don't expect him to be around much longer.  It would make more financial sense for CEOs to give that money to senators, because Trump's chances for election have always been iffy.  ...

Ah...Ok. Thanks.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 06, 2020, 11:13:12 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 06, 2020, 08:49:28 AM
Hmmmm...................'cockwrappers'.............hadn't heard that one before. :)))

LOOL I'm just making those as I go, I swear. It is not conscious if it means something. If it has a specific meaning, enlighten me. I use it here. ROFL But they recognise the word cock and most people don't get it is just the rooster, cough. ALso they get the holly but they think it is holy, lol. Hush.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 12:24:16 PM
This is truly grimm, but I already understand the frailty of democracy, so it's not like a total surprise.  Frankly, I'd rather have Trump win legitimately, than to watch democracy fail.  But I think it will fail, maybe not this year, but then maybe this year.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 06, 2020, 12:28:42 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 12:24:16 PM
This is truly grimm, but I already understand the frailty of democracy, so it's not like a total surprise.  Frankly, I'd rather have Trump win legitimately, than to watch democracy fail.  But I think it will fail, maybe not this year, but then maybe this year.

If Trump wins, he will continue to grab power for the Republican party. Trump has been taking advice from William Barr. And if that doesn't scare you... Watch this, and it will.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE63HmOYGps

Basically, if Trump wins, we're fucked. Trump thinks he's a king who can do whatever he wants. A legitimate Trump victory would only fuel that mindset. He might even decide he can stay beyond his two terms, if he wants to. This needs to be nipped in the bud now, not later.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 06, 2020, 12:35:20 PM
Come on, Biden. Get 'em.

https://youtu.be/l5WQu6R_jdM
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 06, 2020, 12:41:56 PM
(https://scontent.fhou1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/123619374_678903201529_8094206015861734097_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=q8-OV6LpunsAX9V0v4d&_nc_ht=scontent.fhou1-1.fna&oh=f883e662def00543882cbcd2f83e1012&oe=5FC94453)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 06, 2020, 02:06:35 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 12:24:16 PM
This is truly grimm, but I already understand the frailty of democracy, so it's not like a total surprise.  Frankly, I'd rather have Trump win legitimately, than to watch democracy fail.  But I think it will fail, maybe not this year, but then maybe this year.
Trump cannot win 'legitimately' because of all the shit he has pulled.  If he is declared the next president, that will be the end of the republic as we thought we knew it.  He will become a dictator/mob boss and that will be that.  But, even if Biden wins, that does not mean we will save the 'republic', nor will we ever go back to the way it was.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 03:44:10 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 06, 2020, 02:06:35 PM
Trump cannot win 'legitimately' because of all the shit he has pulled.  If he is declared the next president, that will be the end of the republic as we thought we knew it.  He will become a dictator/mob boss and that will be that.  But, even if Biden wins, that does not mean we will save the 'republic', nor will we ever go back to the way it was.
That's what I think.  But I don't see Trump as the ultimate problem, and I don't see Biden as the solution.  But what we understood about our government was in a large part a myth, and I think you and I recognized much of this a long time ago.  Technically, it never was a democracy except those that came before us maintained it as a democracy.  We have a republic that we cooperatively treated like a democracy.  So what's bad about a republic?  Well, the Soviet Union comes to mind, and that place was a shit hole.

If Trump refuses to leave, he will be installed not by the people, but a small group controlled by the wealth of the country.  Or it could be someone no one has ever heard of.  "The people" will simply be removed from the equation altogether and replaced by something like a Politburo. 

I predicted this, but I didn't think I'd see it in my life.  And I don't imagine seeing it recycling itself 4, 8, or 12 years down the road.  Our leaders will have grown used to it, and would have little reason to give it up.  Democracy is not some self correcting system.  It only works with cooperation, and as divided as the country is, cooperation is no longer even on the table.  We have been trained from the top down to divide ourselves rather than unify so that someone else can step in and control.  Was this the plan or some inevitable outcome?  I don't know.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 06, 2020, 04:36:32 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 03:44:10 PM
That's what I think.  But I don't see Trump as the ultimate problem, and I don't see Biden as the solution.  But what we understood about our government was in a large part a myth, and I think you and I recognized much of this a long time ago.  Technically, it never was a democracy except those that came before us maintained it as a democracy.  We have a republic that we cooperatively treated like a democracy.  So what's bad about a republic?  Well, the Soviet Union comes to mind, and that place was a shit hole.

If Trump refuses to leave, he will be installed not by the people, but a small group controlled by the wealth of the country.  Or it could be someone no one has ever heard of.  "The people" will simply be removed from the equation altogether and replaced by something like a Politburo. 

I predicted this, but I didn't think I'd see it in my life.  And I don't imagine seeing it recycling itself 4, 8, or 12 years down the road.  Our leaders will have grown used to it, and would have little reason to give it up.  Democracy is not some self correcting system.  It only works with cooperation, and as divided as the country is, cooperation is no longer even on the table.  We have been trained from the top down to divide ourselves rather than unify so that someone else can step in and control.  Was this the plan or some inevitable outcome?  I don't know.
The entire last four years, including this election, no matter who 'wins' has caused me to begin the process of rethinking and reevaluating,  what our country has been, is now and what it will become.  Not an easy task for me--there is just so much I find bewildering.  I am simply still floored by the amount of hatred that is this country.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 06, 2020, 05:51:29 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 09:25:21 AM
In the wee hours of election night when I scanned the map for data on states, Trump was 6 points ahead in Pennsylvania (or was it 8 points).  This year in some ways resembles 2016, which hourly diary went something like:

09 PM Hillary projected to win!
10 PM Hillary projected to win!
11 PM Hillary projected to win! 
12 AM Hillary projected to win!
01 AM Hillary projected to win!
02 AM Hillary projected to win!
03 AM Hillary projected to win!
04 AM Trump wins election!

Well, I guess when it comes down to it, it's quite different.  The only similarity being the end may surprise us.
Assuming everything holds as-is with Trump holding NC and Biden picking off AZ, NV, PA and GA, the electoral vote totals will be 306-232 in Biden's favor... which was the same as Trump and Hillary's EV totals in 2016 (ignoring faithless electors).   I find that to be a tasty little irony.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2020, 06:37:12 PM
"Software 'Glitch' In Michigan Erroneously Gave 1000s Of Votes To Biden; Up To 47 Counties Compromised" ... oops?

"PA USPS Official Willing To Testify Under Oath Over Ballot-Backdating" ... if true, typical Dem

Meanwhile ... how will y'all like civil war?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 06, 2020, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: trdsf on November 06, 2020, 05:51:29 PMAssuming everything holds as-is with Trump holding NC
:( I got everyone I know to vote this year.  Literally everyone in the family voted for Biden - solid blues, lean blues, someone who doesn't normally vote and even one Republican who doesn't like Trump.  But apparently us blue city-slickers got outvoted by the rural civil war reenactors.

Now we look like idiots, with Georgia and Arizona showing us up.

Feels bad man.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 06, 2020, 06:46:27 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 06, 2020, 06:42:59 PM
:( I got everyone I know to vote this year.  Literally everyone in the family voted for Biden - solid blues, lean blues, someone who doesn't normally vote and even one Republican who doesn't like Trump.  But apparently us blue city-slickers got outvoted by the rural civil war reenactors.

Now we look like idiots, with Georgia and Arizona showing us up.

Feels bad man.

Damn Yankees are assholes too ;-)  Or as they should be called now, Coasties.  The richest Coasties own private beaches, that the taxpayer gets to fix when a storm comes along.  Gotta love that great plantation the masters run these days.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 06, 2020, 08:56:06 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 06, 2020, 06:42:59 PM
:( I got everyone I know to vote this year.  Literally everyone in the family voted for Biden - solid blues, lean blues, someone who doesn't normally vote and even one Republican who doesn't like Trump.  But apparently us blue city-slickers got outvoted by the rural civil war reenactors.

Now we look like idiots, with Georgia and Arizona showing us up.

Feels bad man.
As an Ohioan, I know how you feel.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on November 07, 2020, 06:54:53 AM
Trump is the pimple we see, the far more dangerous, is the festering infection underneath that pushed him to the top.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2020, 09:14:50 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeSiJmLoJd0
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 07, 2020, 09:38:31 AM
I haven't seen Colbert for years. He took over the the Tonight Show and said he was leaving the political stuff behind, because the Tonight Show was for a broader audience.  So I was surprised by this.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 07, 2020, 09:46:14 AM
(https://i.redd.it/254i7iyy2qx51.jpg)

Australian newspaper
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2020, 09:55:52 AM
Quote from: SGOS on November 07, 2020, 09:38:31 AM
I haven't seen Colbert for years. He took over the the Tonight Show and said he was leaving the political stuff behind, because the Tonight Show was for a broader audience.  So I was surprised by this.

I don't follow him. His vids come up along with John Oliver's and he always sticks to Trump, after all he almost made it impossible no to. I think when he said that he never thought the last 4 year was possible.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on November 07, 2020, 10:58:50 AM
They flipped blue and I love it
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 11:19:41 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 06, 2020, 11:00:04 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWRhLW7Y8w

Interesting...

Goddamn it. There's no way William Barr doesn't know about this loophole. And if Barr knows, so does Trump.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2020, 11:31:42 AM
The news here have just reported Biden as the 46th president of The Unites States of America.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2020, 11:55:56 AM
That TED video is terrifying. And of course they all know.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 12:03:42 PM
Biden won the election. Hail Satan! This is a relief, but we all know this isn't the end. Now we just have to wait to see how Trump reacts to this news. If he will concede or not. My bets are on not. Rather than concede peacefully and encourage unity, he's going to call for division and refuse to leave.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:04:28 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2020, 11:31:42 AM
News here has just reported Biden as the 46th president of The Unites States of America.

MSM decided aka press corp for DNC.  SCOTUS and House have yet to say.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:05:09 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 12:03:42 PM
Biden won the election. Hail Satan! This is a relief, but we all know this isn't the end. Now we just have to wait to see how Trump reacts to this news. If he will concede or not. My bets are on not. Rather than concede peacefully and encourage unity, he's going to call for division and refuse to leave.

I accept that not all atheists are satanists, but I do think all satanists are atheists.  You seem to fall into the wrong category ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:05:46 PM
Quote from: aitm on November 07, 2020, 06:54:53 AM
Trump is the pimple we see, the far more dangerous, is the festering infection underneath that pushed him to the top.

How many Republicans will you burn, loot & murder?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:06:48 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 06, 2020, 02:06:35 PM
Trump cannot win 'legitimately' because of all the shit he has pulled.  If he is declared the next president, that will be the end of the republic as we thought we knew it.  He will become a dictator/mob boss and that will be that.  But, even if Biden wins, that does not mean we will save the 'republic', nor will we ever go back to the way it was.

DNC could have avoided Hillary and Biden, if they had declared Obama President For Life (aka Haiti).  Wakanda!  Voted for Obama twice, would have preferred that they did.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:07:50 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 06, 2020, 12:24:16 PM
This is truly grimm, but I already understand the frailty of democracy, so it's not like a total surprise.  Frankly, I'd rather have Trump win legitimately, than to watch democracy fail.  But I think it will fail, maybe not this year, but then maybe this year.

Good riddance - Davos ... part of a worldwide move to enslave or kill John Q Public.  Anyone up for wool clothing for winter and mutton for supper?  Sheeple have it coming.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2020, 12:08:35 PM
Guys, be safe.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:09:07 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 06, 2020, 12:28:42 PM
If Trump wins, he will continue to grab power for the Republican party. Trump has been taking advice from William Barr. And if that doesn't scare you... Watch this, and it will.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE63HmOYGps

Basically, if Trump wins, we're fucked. Trump thinks he's a king who can do whatever he wants. A legitimate Trump victory would only fuel that mindset. He might even decide he can stay beyond his two terms, if he wants to. This needs to be nipped in the bud now, not later.

So, you will protect Hunter's 14 year old sex interests, and his meth pipe?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:12:21 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2020, 12:08:35 PM
Guys, be safe.

How?  The US and GB and most other countries (not Russia, Iran, China) have been set up for destruction.  Been waiting for mega-death all my life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yHTpGog0IY

I know, we need to worship John Lennon, and have all the bad sex, bad drugs, bad music (not this one) and bad politics possible.

I am happy, in that I may yet live to see the mushroom clouds (not fungi).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:13:27 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 06, 2020, 04:36:32 PM
The entire last four years, including this election, no matter who 'wins' has caused me to begin the process of rethinking and reevaluating,  what our country has been, is now and what it will become.  Not an easy task for me--there is just so much I find bewildering.  I am simply still floored by the amount of hatred that is this country.

King George III ... hold my pint
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 07, 2020, 12:15:12 PM
Baruch, rein yourself in, would ya kindly ?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:17:58 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 07, 2020, 12:15:12 PM
Baruch, rein yourself in, would ya kindly ?


Enjoy your authoritarian EU.  Do they pick cotton over there?

I will shut up, when everyone else does.  The non-editorial news bits are all in the back.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 07, 2020, 12:19:02 PM
Quote from: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:17:58 PM

Enjoy your authoritarian EU.  Do they pick cotton over there?

I understand you have a lot of pent up energy right now. But none of us care.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 12:19:26 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 07, 2020, 12:15:12 PM
Baruch, rein yourself in, would ya kindly ?

Seriously, even putting him on ignore isn't enough. So often I click on a thread, seeing there are new replies, and it's just a page full of Baruch. We need a Super Ignore button that doesn't even show the prompt to see the reply, and just skips it entirely.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:20:11 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 07, 2020, 12:19:02 PM
I understand you have a lot of pent up energy right now. But none of us care.

And I don't care if Europe (not GB) gets occupied by Islam or China.  Defend yourselves, losers.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:21:38 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 12:19:26 PM
Seriously, even putting him on ignore isn't enough. So often I click on a thread, seeing there are new replies, and it's just a page full of Baruch. We need a Super Ignore button that doesn't even show the prompt to see the reply, and just skips it entirely.

This is because of the election mess.  I certainly enjoy all the "crazy" posts.  Much more entertaining what regular folks think than MSM.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 07, 2020, 12:24:42 PM
Biden--290!!
https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-wins-2020-presidential-election-defeats-trump-162710503.html

It took awhile--but now it's done.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 07, 2020, 12:29:26 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 12:19:26 PM
Seriously, even putting him on ignore isn't enough. So often I click on a thread, seeing there are new replies, and it's just a page full of Baruch. We need a Super Ignore button that doesn't even show the prompt to see the reply, and just skips it entirely.

Wouldn't know.. I refuse to use the ignore function for anyone. But yes, he's being extra himself.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:31:31 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 07, 2020, 12:29:26 PM
Wouldn't know.. I refuse to use the ignore function for anyone. But yes, he's being extra himself.

Sorry for that.  I have never used the auto-reply-notice anywhere.  Not part of my culture to be on my phone 24x7, or access the Internet that way.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 12:32:26 PM
Quote from: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:21:38 PM
This is because of the election mess.  I certainly enjoy all the "crazy" posts.  Much more entertaining what regular folks think than MSM.

No, you've been like this for a while. When I first joined this forum, I liked you. You were odd, and I often had no idea WTF you were saying, but you seemed smart. I liked reading your unique perspective as a theist, and as a theist who thought God was evil. That was a unique perspective I've never heard before. But lately, you've turned into nothing but a massive annoyance, and that's pretty sad.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2020, 12:33:29 PM
The thing is I don't think he's voted for Trump. What's the deal? 

Anyway, let's get back to some  normalcy. Where were we? The global plague, far right parties everywhere around the world, all kinds of terrorism, massive fires, earthquakes, billions of batshit crazy people...etc.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2020, 12:34:39 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 12:32:26 PM
No, you've been like this for a while. When I first joined this forum, I liked you. You were odd, and I often had no idea WTF you were saying, but you seemed smart. I liked reading your unique perspective as a theist, and as a theist who thought God was evil. That was a unique perspective I've never heard before. But lately, you've turned into nothing but an massive annoyance, and that's pretty sad.

He's retired. I think he has retirement depression.   
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 07, 2020, 12:40:28 PM
Both AP (https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-wins-white-house-ap-fd58df73aa677acb74fce2a69adb71f9) and NPR (https://apps.npr.org/elections20-interactive/#/president) have declared Biden the winner.

(https://obs.line-scdn.net/0h_eZtOaQNAEpnDSiZgsR_HV1bAyVUYRNJAztRVDdjXn4ebkJIUmMbf0sMXHMdP0cUDmpNKkUNG3sZakcdDGIb/w644)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 07, 2020, 12:44:44 PM
Quote from: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 12:20:11 PM
And I don't care if Europe (not GB) gets occupied by Islam or China.  Defend yourselves, losers.

Really? Because honestly my impression of you these past few years has been that you are rather obsessed about that subject, amongst others...

In any case, I tried. I think I might be one of the last people here who is no worse than neutral to your presence, Baruch. Please do know that what I urge is not in ill intent. But to both your and our benefit, in my humble opinion.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 07, 2020, 12:49:05 PM
This is nice.  I'm going to kick back and just enjoy the moment.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 07, 2020, 01:09:12 PM
Fox News:  Biden Wins Presidency (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-wins-presidency-trump-fox-news-projects)

(https://external-preview.redd.it/ej82xzFyeIESz7jM604csiP6HfcIgDTSxOptmpeYV3c.jpg?auto=webp&s=7d2a86064c569fc61e70c3e3068f3b6021d2c33b)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 07, 2020, 02:27:34 PM
I'm thinking about Kamala Harris as Biden's running mate and Sarah Palin as John McCain's running mate.  Outspoken fighter that she can be, Harris was relatively quiet during this election.  Back during McCain's run at the presidency, it was almost all about Sara Palin.  McCain even considered by many Democrats to be a reasonable man, was over shadowed by Palin.  In fact, overrun by her.  I watched so many interviews of the two, where Sarah dominated the conversation, while McCain sat back with head down letting Sarah explain the goals and objectives of the Palin/McCain presidency.  It's like their roles were reversed.  Many of us didn't really get to know McCain, while everyone got to know Sara Palin.  That was the year I fell in love with Tina Fey.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 07, 2020, 02:36:58 PM
Has some points, but I think we need to try working together..Is that even possible?
https://youtu.be/6p6Wyusk5RY
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 02:41:41 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 07, 2020, 12:44:44 PM
Really? Because honestly my impression of you these past few years has been that you are rather obsessed about that subject, amongst others...

In any case, I tried. I think I might be one of the last people here who is no worse than neutral to your presence, Baruch. Please do know that what I urge is not in ill intent. But to both your and our benefit, in my humble opinion.

I still hope for you and your girlfriend, for couples of all kinds ;-)  I don't think of people here ... as bad people.  Confused maybe.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 02:43:01 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 07, 2020, 02:36:58 PM
Has some points, but I think we need to try working together..Is that even possible?
https://youtu.be/6p6Wyusk5RY

Why?  You want to put Jefferson Davis in the WH and kill Abraham Lincoln?  How long until political giant, Kamala Harris has Joe Biden in the nursing home, with Pelosi's assistance?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 02:44:31 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 12:32:26 PM
No, you've been like this for a while. When I first joined this forum, I liked you. You were odd, and I often had no idea WTF you were saying, but you seemed smart. I liked reading your unique perspective as a theist, and as a theist who thought God was evil. That was a unique perspective I've never heard before. But lately, you've turned into nothing but a massive annoyance, and that's pretty sad.

Yes, I am odd.  I don't fulfill your projections of what a theist is like or what a former-Democrat is like.  I am not annoyed at any of you.  Just fun watching and kibitzing.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 02:45:54 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2020, 12:33:29 PM
The thing is I don't think he's voted for Trump. What's the deal? 

Anyway, let's get back to some  normalcy. Where were we? The global plague, far right parties everywhere around the world, all kinds of terrorism, massive fires, earthquakes, billions of batshit crazy people...etc.

Do you have a ticket to Davos?  If not, then you don't have a future, no more than I do.  And no, I would never vote for Trump.  That is the projection of Dems who think that anyone who wouldn't vote for Hillary, or won't vote at all, is Satan.  Which if funny coming from atheists ;-))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 02:48:18 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 07, 2020, 12:34:39 PM
He's retired. I think he has retirement depression.

Possible diagnosis, but incorrect.  I have suffered from depression for years, but I am better with retirement.  I just have more time on my hands, which is OK by me.  I have so many interests and projects.  Currently reviewing ancient Egyptian.  The idea that 2019 is normal, or that 2015 is normal .. we never repeat even recent history.  There is no money for the financiers in that.  They thrive on chaos and oppression, and that is what the sheeple always get.  This has been true back to my first eligible election.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 02:54:51 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 07, 2020, 02:36:58 PM
Has some points, but I think we need to try working together..Is that even possible?
https://youtu.be/6p6Wyusk5RY

Really? The Trumpets are calling for beheadings now? Who do they think they are, the Taliban?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 03:12:07 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 02:54:51 PM
Really? The Trumpets are calling for beheadings now? Who do they think they are, the Taliban?

Not, the Dems are Taliban ;-))  Allah Akbar!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 07, 2020, 03:14:01 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 02:54:51 PMReally? The Trumpets are calling for beheadings now? Who do they think they are, they Taliban?
Yes (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/06/nyregion/bannon-lawyer-beheading.html).  And they prefer the term Y'all-qaeda.

It's one thing to hold a cartoonishly vile combination of religious and political beliefs.  It's quite another to turn traitor and call for the assassination of government officials or to call for an authoritarian repression of American voting rights.

The former is a pitiable though not technically illegal condition.  The latter is absolutely unacceptable in a free society and ought to entail substantial legal penalties.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 07, 2020, 03:30:48 PM
I can do no better than to quote, believe it or not, a Republican president:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLyX4DbE6Hc
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 07, 2020, 03:51:12 PM
Quote from: trdsf on November 07, 2020, 03:30:48 PMI can do no better than to quote, believe it or not, a Republican president:
After two close calls, we really should do something to make sure this stuff doesn't happen again.  Because number 3 might be the one that ruins the country for good.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on November 07, 2020, 04:07:16 PM
Hoorays!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 04:15:18 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmOzZioXMAYYJjJ?format=jpg&name=medium)

Goodbye and good riddance, Trump!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 07, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
He did want us to go back to the moon
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 04:39:50 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 07, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
He did want us to go back to the moon

Maybe that's where the secret Deep State base is hidden.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 07, 2020, 04:50:32 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 07, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
He did want us to go back to the moon
Fortunately, Biden is also a NASA supporter, so Artemis is not necessarily off the table.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2020, 05:37:45 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 04:39:50 PM
Maybe that's where the secret Deep State base is hidden.

No, Nazis on the dark side, and under Antarctica, haven't you seen the movies?

So the CIA/FBI don't exist, and are totally honest and patriotic?  Have I got a bridge for you ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 07, 2020, 06:01:07 PM
Quote from: trdsf on November 07, 2020, 04:50:32 PM
Fortunately, Biden is also a NASA supporter, so Artemis is not necessarily off the table.
One day we may need to leave this battered planet but for now I would not be opposed to redirecting some of the great minds at NASA to join in with other experts in a think tank to work on the climate change problem. Tropical Storm Eta, FFS. We have lost much valuable time with our anti-science "leaders".
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 07, 2020, 06:35:03 PM
No kidding.  One of my main reasons for voting Biden is that he intends to actually tackle climate change, not deny it away.  The clock is ticking and it's way past time that there was an adult in the room calling the shots.  Still, it might be too late to avoid a lot of the bad consequences of ignoring climate change, but not too late to avoid the truly horrific stuff - stuff that 4 more years of Trump would have surely steered us towards.  We have a lot of lost time to make up for and Republican stonewalling to overcome.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 07:18:04 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 07, 2020, 06:35:03 PM
No kidding.  One of my main reasons for voting Biden is that he intends to actually tackle climate change, not deny it away.  The clock is ticking and it's way past time that there was an adult in the room calling the shots.  Still, it might be too late to avoid a lot of the bad consequences of ignoring climate change, but not too late to avoid the truly horrific stuff - stuff that 4 more years of Trump would have surely steered us towards.  We have a lot of lost time to make up for and Republican stonewalling to overcome.

Dude, if humanity had one million years to solve the climate change issue, we would wait until year one million and one. Getting Trump out of the White House certainly won't hurt, but people are stupid. They never learn.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 07, 2020, 08:26:31 PM
Biden and Harris are about to give their victory speeches.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on November 07, 2020, 08:57:19 PM
FUCKING FINALLY. GET THAT ORANGE TINGED SHIT STAIN OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PopeyesPappy on November 07, 2020, 09:56:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/bEuWjrJ.png)

https://twitter.com/ziyatong/status/1324925633831579649
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: the_antithesis on November 07, 2020, 10:25:17 PM
What's a province?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 07, 2020, 10:27:30 PM
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on November 07, 2020, 09:56:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/bEuWjrJ.png)

https://twitter.com/ziyatong/status/1324925633831579649
I'm gonna have a go, keeping in mind that you have to take my word for it that I haven't googled it.

Ontario, Quebec, Newfoundland and Labrador, Prince Edward Island, Manitoba, Alberta, Saskatchewan, British Columbia, Yukon, Northwest Territory, Nunavut... that's 11, damn.  I can't think of the other two.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 07, 2020, 10:36:09 PM
Nova Scotia... My mother's family is from there and we used to visit. My first experience of a house with no running water.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 07, 2020, 10:38:15 PM
My friend sent me this today:


(https://64.media.tumblr.com/a9d9db7f877f122027b4f80001adb6ba/34335da1f5149f71-9e/s1280x1920/57527be9705a13c8a161f05a29567726d14e9a40.jpg)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/b63712447373f274c9b84e352d3f2b06/34335da1f5149f71-f2/s400x600/8f784a08f2fb7ac962b258f7eca62c0ee4ec734e.gifv)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 07, 2020, 10:49:40 PM
Welcome Back, America! (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/07/world-congratulates-joe-biden-on-us-presidential-election-win.html)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 07, 2020, 11:07:11 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/8ew3lc1kfmx51.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=dbe16eb4de2fb5c2de37256681d6c494ff38bd99)

Aged like milk.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 07, 2020, 11:35:54 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 07, 2020, 10:36:09 PM
Nova Scotia... My mother's family is from there and we used to visit. My first experience of a house with no running water.
Yeah, I looked 'em up after I made my guess.  So I know the other one I forgot, too.  :)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 08, 2020, 03:28:51 AM
You know what, I'm almost sure by now that right wing mentality has strong correlations with inferiority complex, low self esteem and a strong fake kind of self confidence. That's probably why it is narcissistic in a pathological sense in the first place. They live completely out of reality.

The right wing here -atheist, secular, religious...- has started to attack Kamala Harris -Biden too of course but esp. her- just after the Democartic victory. You know because she is a SJW project with a CV; a woman but then she is not even black. ? Forget the last KKK parts, but someone with a CV?! Because dumbass people with no education or experience are welcome as long as they are white, het and male. You'd think you are reading the old 4chan in another language with a lighter tone. And their reaction is -supposedly- that it's going to be bad for us, dollar's gonna skyrocket as if it didn't before and all, as if the current government or rather the lack of a real one has nothing to do with the collapse. If the election in a country at the other side of the world -doesn't matter big and influential or not- affects your economy that bad, it is your fucking fault. You should have thought about that before building a theocratic oligarchy and kill all the production. Stupidity kills.

They talk about American recognition of Armenian Genocide -Kamala Harris will probably push it for good- although as they reportedly plan to get closer to Israel after Trump's cold period, I have no idea how they will balance that. The thing is, everything is aside, it doesn't matter because there are virtually no country left that doesn't recognise it. The UK and the US are the ones I know as the influential ones. And there is the military base issue related to that as bargain chip. Really? The US or UN will give that up or Turkey will say no we won't have it? PFFFFT. ROFL

They also claim Biden's going to start another invasion in the Middle East while Trump was to stay away from international interferences because -wait for it- he wanted to leave it to their people to solve their problems. ARRRGH. Apparently Trump is man with respect to other countries' autonomy and freedom.

The real problem could be Democrats laying it hard on the party in power. But as I said, what government? Because if social democrats manage to get in to the power they will lean to the Western policies. But how? When?

Anyway, the minority of sensible people trying to express a universal feeling that they are happy because it is a blow to an abhorrent mentality and the set of politics and policies it produces. Finally, something against homicidal far right.

But, nope. 20 years of...mostly the last 10 years actually, Erdogan regime created a mass of Turkish rednecks who are impossible to interact with. Reliigous, secular or nonbeliever. Maybe that's why watching this American elections was like watching ours in some sense.


Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 08, 2020, 06:55:16 AM
Quote from: the_antithesis on November 07, 2020, 10:25:17 PM
What's a province?
Is it like a commonwealth?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 08, 2020, 06:59:11 AM
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on November 07, 2020, 09:56:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/bEuWjrJ.png)

https://twitter.com/ziyatong/status/1324925633831579649

Actually, I can and just did, even though I never bothered knowing there were thirteen.

I'll also tell you that when asked to name the 50 states, I've never done it.  It's been a long time since I tried.  Maybe I could do it now.  I don't know.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 08, 2020, 10:05:41 AM
Canada apparently is easy for Americans to forget about ;-)  The one time I met Canadians while in Athens Greece, over retsina, I said a few nice things about them, just to be social.  The conversation implied they had an inferiority complex to the US (not justified of course), but they weren't neo-Nazis, more liberal on average than Americans.

Left wing mentality corresponds to superiority complex.  Abolitionists are Aryans (like Hitler).  Progressives are New Soviet Men (like Stalin).  With archetypes like those, what is not to like?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 08, 2020, 10:41:41 AM
Quote from: SGOS on November 08, 2020, 06:59:11 AM
Actually, I can and just did, even though I never bothered knowing there were thirteen.

I'll also tell you that when asked to name the 50 states, I've never done it.  It's been a long time since I tried.  Maybe I could do it now.  I don't know.

Imma try and fail

Alaska
Hawai
Washington
Oregon
California
Nevada
Texas
Florida
South Dakota and North dakota
Oklahoma
Ohio
Minnessota
Michigan
Winsconsin
Vermont
Pennsylvania
Maine
New York and New jersey
South Carolina and North carolina
Virginia and West virginia
Utah
Wyoming
Mississippi
Maryland
Arizona
Kansas
New Mexico
Georgia
Idaho (?)  that's a state, right?
Alabama
Arkensas
Connecticut
Atlanta

That's about as far as I get, to my shame.

Edit: and i wasn't sure about Atlanta, and after looking it up I clearly was wrong

Edit after edit: gah, after looking it up I'm like, I know these states damn it
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on November 08, 2020, 11:09:43 AM
Quote from: the_antithesis on November 07, 2020, 10:25:17 PM
What's a province?
It's funny because Canadians still can't name all 50 states or where they're located. Neither can Europeans, without looking at a map. In their defense, though, most people in the U.S. can't either.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on November 08, 2020, 11:10:54 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 08, 2020, 10:41:41 AM
Imma try and fail

That was actually really good. I always forget about Vermont and Wyoming, for some reason.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 08, 2020, 11:18:37 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 08, 2020, 10:41:41 AM
Imma try and fail
The problem is that it's a long list.  Almost any American can tell you it's a state when they hear it, but it's easy to leave one out.  I try to picture a map of the US, but when I get over to the Atlantic Seaboard, there's that little cluster of states by Washington DC, that's so small, it doesn't even show up in my mind map.  I just know, "Oh that's the part that has all those little states."  Other times I might leave out a big state like Alabama or Utah.  We were supposed to learn this in grade school, but I can't remember ever being able to do it.  Frankly, it didn't seem that important.

They other thing we were supposed to learn were the state capitols.  That never seemed important, and now with Google, learning them really strikes me as a total waste of time.  Remember learning arithmetic?  You know addition, multiplication tables and all that.  Now that was obviously necessary, at least at the time, but today they don't seem to stress that.  Just use a calculator.  Why bother knowing about carrying the left over into the next step of division and all that.  We have computers for that drudgery.  For spelling we have spell check, although it sometimes renders rather odd sentences when it's self correcting.

Times are changing.  If you don't like facts, just use alternate facts.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 08, 2020, 11:24:32 AM
Even as late as college, I had to learn how to operate a slide rule.  By the time I graduated from college slide rules had become objects taking up shelf space in pawn shops.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 08, 2020, 12:08:45 PM
(https://i.redd.it/7011elnm4yx51.jpg)

Arguably, they did a better job there than the coronavirus response.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 08, 2020, 01:37:40 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 08, 2020, 11:18:37 AM
The problem is that it's a long list.  Almost any American can tell you it's a state when they hear it, but it's easy to leave one out.  I try to picture a map of the US, but when I get over to the Atlantic Seaboard, there's that little cluster of states by Washington DC, that's so small, it doesn't even show up in my mind map.  I just know, "Oh that's the part that has all those little states."  Other times I might leave out a big state like Alabama or Utah.  We were supposed to learn this in grade school, but I can't remember ever being able to do it.  Frankly, it didn't seem that important.

They other thing we were supposed to learn were the state capitols.  That never seemed important, and now with Google, learning them really strikes me as a total waste of time.  Remember learning arithmetic?  You know addition, multiplication tables and all that.  Now that was obviously necessary, at least at the time, but today they don't seem to stress that.  Just use a calculator.  Why bother knowing about carrying the left over into the next step of division and all that.  We have computers for that drudgery.  For spelling we have spell check, although it sometimes renders rather odd sentences when it's self correcting.

Times are changing.  If you don't like facts, just use alternate facts.

Knew all the states and capitals when I was 6, because my mom encouraged me.  Had a lose plastic set of states I could put together.  Easy to lose the parts for Delaware and Rhode Island.  I can still do all the states from memory, but I am wrong on some of the capitals (vs other large cities in those states).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 08, 2020, 01:38:24 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 08, 2020, 12:08:45 PM
(https://i.redd.it/7011elnm4yx51.jpg)

Arguably, they did a better job there than the coronavirus response.

Mafia affiliates always hate Giuliani.  The picture maker misspelled his name.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 08, 2020, 02:08:52 PM
Our first, second gentleman...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmPHH93XUAAVlx7?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 08, 2020, 02:35:34 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 08, 2020, 02:08:52 PM
Our first, second gentleman...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmPHH93XUAAVlx7?format=jpg&name=900x900)

First second

That's going to be a popular quiz question.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 08, 2020, 02:54:33 PM
I have had no President since Obama, and I after-the-fact reject all those since Eisenhower.  So not my government, not by party, not my leaders, not my countrymen.  Which is fine, I am not Japanese either, and don't hold any ennui against Japan.  So I consider myself an illegal alien here, since 2016.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 08, 2020, 03:10:52 PM
You have a weird way of showing it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 08, 2020, 03:12:36 PM
OK, I need to confess something. She is going to eat all of them alive. And that makes me happy.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 08, 2020, 05:03:11 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 08, 2020, 03:10:52 PM
You have a weird way of showing it.

I am complicated.  Not 2 dimensional unlike most people on the Internet ;-)

The reference was to Stranger In A Strange Land ... if you saw my eye condition, that Munch did pay attention to when I shared it, you would know I am from Mars, that and being civilian-military for 32 years.

You assume I am a White supremacist who goes around murdering women, children and colored folk, while wearing a bed sheet?  I have watched some recent videos by young defected N Korean soldiers, about how they had a totally false notion of the US, from all the propaganda.  I see Europeans as being brainwashed too.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 08, 2020, 05:04:34 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 08, 2020, 03:12:36 PM
OK, I need to confess something. She is going to eat all of them alive. And that makes me happy.

Chronos eats his own children aka Saturn in Roman mythology.  So you support Greco-Roman mythology?

I don't hope you end up in a Sharia harem.  Because i don't think you would like it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 08, 2020, 06:58:31 PM
(https://i.redd.it/c3i9w2ifqzx51.jpg)

It's like Coruscant finding out the Emperor is dead.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 08, 2020, 07:46:22 PM
Humans emote, which is good.  Humans don't think, which is bad.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 08, 2020, 08:15:32 PM
Trump seems awful quiet lately, or has the media lost interest in him?  I know he's working on his court case stuff.  Well his lawyers are, but it's not like him to remain silent for more than 20 minutes.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 08, 2020, 08:19:21 PM
I think he's been playing golf all week.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 08, 2020, 08:21:00 PM
I can only find an update for yesterday at this site, which I only discovered two minutes ago.  It goes back day by day, for I don't know how far.

https://www.whattrumpdid.today/
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 08, 2020, 09:18:29 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 08, 2020, 08:15:32 PMTrump seems awful quiet lately, or has the media lost interest in him?
We can only hope.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 08, 2020, 10:48:14 PM
Arkansas police chief resigns over calling for violence against Democrats (https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/08/us/arkansas-police-chief-violence-parler-invs/index.html)

QuoteIn addition to repeatedly saying Democrats should be killed, he shared memes from conspiracy theory QAnon and claimed that the election was being stolen.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 08, 2020, 11:10:20 PM
Somebody had on Fox News in the break room today. Probably the same person who keeps turning it on to the religious channels on Sundays... But it was kind of interesting hearing how they were talking about the Biden victory. They weren't in denial about Biden's victory, and it almost seemed to me like they were relieved. Of course, this is still Fox News, so mileage will vary based on the show you're watching there.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 08, 2020, 11:19:56 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 08, 2020, 11:10:20 PM
Somebody had on Fox News in the break room today. Probably the same person who keeps turning it on to the religious channels on Sundays... But it was kind of interesting hearing how they were talking about the Biden victory. They weren't in denial about Biden's victory, and it almost seemed to me like they were relieved. Of course, this is still Fox News, so mileage will vary based on the show you're watching there.
There are some indications that Murdoch and his media group are turning on Trump (https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/07/business/fox-news-rupert-murdoch-trump/).  The 'straight news' anchors haven't been hesitant about calling the talking heads' misinformation exactly that, which suggests the corporate Christmas party should be an interesting affair...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 08, 2020, 11:45:08 PM
Sometimes, I go on the conservative side of reddit just to see if they're making any solid points or looking at something from an angle I didn't consider.

I went there a few hours ago and it was all about Donnie having a real chance of winning, fake ballots, and the MSM (apparently including Fox News lol) calling this race prematurely.

Now it's all concern trolling about crowds (they seem to have no objection to crowds, even maskless ones, for much, much longer periods of time but when it's against trump they suddenly have a problem) and general hatred towards liberals, so normal for them.  It takes them a while to figure out the obvious, but that's kinda their thing.

Interestingly, both a conservative subreddit and a liberal one cited the recent statement from George W Bush.

Conservative headline:  George W. Bush: Trump Has Right To Pursue Recounts And Legal Challenges Over Election
Liberal headline:  George W. Bush: "I just talked to the President-elect of the United States, Joe Biden. I extended my warm congratulations and thanked him for the patriotic message he delivered last night. I also called Kamala Harris to congratulate her on her historic election."

Actual text (https://www.bushcenter.org/about-the-center/newsroom/press-releases/2020/11/president-george-w-bush-statement-joe-biden.html)

As can be expected, the liberals transcribed the opening lines verbatim while the conservatives cherry-picked what they wanted out of it and discarded the rest.  Who to trust for my news?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 09, 2020, 12:28:12 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmUDT9jU0AAXMrB.jpg)

https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/election-week-2020

Well, at least the polling about young people's preferences is accurate.  The narrow results had me worried that maybe the youngsters had fallen a peg.  Instead, they helped break the battleground states for Biden.  We would be talking about President Trump's second term right now if they had just stayed home.

If these demographic trends continue, the GOP might be in a real demographic bind in 10-20 years.  Not to put to fine a point on it, but there aren't more Boomers in the US than there was a year ago.  And although the white nationalist crowd is no doubt more active than they have been in decades, they're no spring chickens, either.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 09, 2020, 03:23:41 AM
Quote from: SGOS on November 08, 2020, 08:15:32 PM
Trump seems awful quiet lately, or has the media lost interest in him?  I know he's working on his court case stuff.  Well his lawyers are, but it's not like him to remain silent for more than 20 minutes.

Ha! The price of tweeting like an asshole, lying through your teeth for 4 years because you know people have to pay attention due to your station is that the moment you lose it, nobody's going to give the slightest fuck.

They won't even make him a meme. They won't even make fun of him because people won't even get pisssed off at him. And that was his only act. This was the antidote of that plague I guess and now the herd immunity is achieved.

He'll try anything probably. Don't be surprised if he tries to create scandals.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 09, 2020, 03:31:57 AM
Crazy stuff is happening here. Minister of economy has resigned and there was no news on the tv channels. All over social media though. (The minister was his son in law. LOL, yeah.) Head of the central bank was removed. I have no idea if this is some ruse or something real is going on. :boohoo: The fear of the American Democrats? What? I didn't say anything. :kidra:
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 09, 2020, 04:25:27 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 09, 2020, 03:23:41 AM
Ha! The price of tweeting like an asshole, lying through your teeth for 4 years because you know people have to pay attention due to your station is that the moment you lose it, nobody's going to give the slightest fuck.

He'll try anything probably. Don't be surprised if he tries to declare create scandals.
I have enjoyed the silence for sure.  It's part of that post election calm not having to hear all about all his toxic comments and divisive tweets. It's embarrassing to me.  He will no doubt remain as an outside agitator and a powerful voice against national unity, and he will gain some attention, but he won't have the power to directly push the buttons of discord.  He turned the presidency into a job that would be better off left unfilled.  An empty desk in the White House would be an improvement.  I don't expect much from Biden, but he's preferable to that lunatic.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 09, 2020, 04:40:16 AM
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/11/08/us/politics/08dc-republicans1/merlin_179576127_1057c42a-4d67-4eae-a4e4-56d2fd8621d9-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale)

Quote“Every legal challenge should be heard,” Representative Kevin McCarthy of California said. “Then and only then will America decide who won the race.”Credit...Anna Moneymaker for The New York Times
Well OK, but a 4 million plus vote from a majority works too, and presidents have been seated with far less.  I hope we don't have to go through this every time some loser gets his ass kicked in an election from now on.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 09, 2020, 04:45:17 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 09, 2020, 03:31:57 AM
Crazy stuff is happening here. Minister of economy has resigned and there was no news on the tv channels. All over social media though. (The minister was his son in law. LOL, yeah.) Head of the central bank was removed. I have no idea if this is some ruse or something real is going on. :boohoo: The fear of the American Democrats? What? I didn't say anything. :kidra:
It's times like this when a little help from the media could be useful.  Mysterious actions by a government are spooky, and don't build confidence in leadership.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 09, 2020, 09:01:39 AM
Quote from: SGOS on November 09, 2020, 04:25:27 AM
An empty desk in the White House would be an improvement.  I don't expect much from Biden, but he's preferable to that lunatic.
I am a natural optimist (one reason these last 4 yrs have been so hard for me) and I think you may be selling Biden a bit short.  This is my thought at this moment--feel free to kick holes in it. :)  Biden is just the right personality that is needed right now.  He has 50yrs of political 'service'.  He knows the people in congress and the other 'movers and shakers'.  He is highly regarded in most circles in DC.  He has a history of caring (or at least respecting) for people, has a reputation of being a healer, of being able to be empathetic and sympathetic.  He has a task of undoing the trump evil and I think he can do that long, slow job.  He will not do anything groundbreaking, but doing repair work, work that he has done in the past (just not to the level he will need to do it now).  I do not see him fired up, or even caring much about, any career building that a younger politician would care about. I can even see him stepping down after 4 years of repair and letting the younger dems take over.  Biden does not have an ego problem.  I see him thinking of himself of more of a bridge than hard-charger for change.  Anyway, he very well may be just the thing we need now in DC. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 09, 2020, 10:02:00 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 09, 2020, 09:01:39 AM
I am a natural optimist (one reason these last 4 yrs have been so hard for me) and I think you may be selling Biden a bit short. 
I just don't expect much from him.  He made that clear.  Not sure that's selling him short.  But I'm open to progress.  Boy am I open!  Right now the Republicans are the progressive party.  Dems are dragging their feet just following along, and didn't accomplish much during Obama.  He bailed out a bunch of corrupt bankers, and came up with health insurance that helped the needy, but helped the private insurance companies more. Where's that money come from?   Now we have Obama light, but without a sympathetic Senate. 

Hey, I'm relieved to have Trump out.  Maybe it's up to Dems to be the conservative party holding the line on progress, and if that's all people want, so be it.  Biden may surprise me, and I'd like nothing more than to tell everyone he surprised the heck out of me, and I will do that happily if it somehow happens.  But I don't expect much.  Right now the Democratic party is focused on winning moderates from the Republicans.  They are ignoring the progressive wing of the party, and Biden made that clear.  I and other progressives are just expected to vote Democratic because we owe it to them for not being assholes or something.  Right now I'm still basking in the glow of Trump's absence.  That's all I expected to get out this election.  I'm feeling good, and I will never EVER regret Trump's absence.  So that's a good thing.  I'm doing well, I'm financially secure and don't mind isolating.  I don't really need anything from Biden for myself.  But for some stupid reason I have a deep concern over the direction of our country, and I'll probably take that to my grave.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 09, 2020, 11:47:36 AM
I only need for them not to fuck up the affordable care act. Finally have reasonable coverage at a decent cost or vice versa. Of course that orange splash of voted-out hog-smegma has filed with that supreme court of religious jesters to overthrow my policy in the middle of a pandemic.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 09, 2020, 01:08:00 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 09, 2020, 04:45:17 AM
It's times like this when a little help from the media could be useful.  Mysterious actions by a government are spooky, and don't build confidence in leadership.

The media is part of the problem, not part of the solution.  But a true believer will accept the benedictions of the priests of politics
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 09, 2020, 01:10:15 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 09, 2020, 11:47:36 AM
I only need for them not to fuck up the affordable care act. Finally have reasonable coverage at a decent cost or vice versa. Of course that orange splash of voted-out hog-smegma has filed with that supreme court of religious jesters to overthrow my policy in the middle of a pandemic.

I won't obey dictatorial ACA, but if it works for you, good on you.  Voluntary ACA isn't communism, just fraud (like all health insurance).

Have to joke, how Dems are like Born Again Christians who have see Jesus reappear in the White House.  Crazy like people on drugs.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 09, 2020, 01:36:21 PM
Healthcare is my number one issue and I believe Biden will be better than Trump. Biden proposes to expand the Affordable Care Act by increasing marketplace subsidies, adopting auto-enrollment, and offering a new public option available to those in the individual market or with employer coverage. The plan would also reduce the Medicare age from 65 to 60, establish a new long-term care tax credit, and increase funding for rural health and mental health services.

Trump says he wanted to end the ACA and replace it with "something terrific" and/or "something great." He says he wants to increase competition and lower healthcare costs with few specifics on how this would be accomplished. Experts tend to believe that it's unlikely Republicans would scrap the ACA entirely because the ACA isn't just about insuring the formerly uninsured; the 900-plus page piece of legislation has also touched many other parts of the American healthcare system. As Trump famously learned, "Nobody knew healthcare could be so complicated." Republicans don't actually have a new healthcare plan and it's likely they would make a few revisions and relabeled the ACA something other than "Obamacare".

Neither support eliminating private insurance and replacing it with Medicare-for-All.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 09, 2020, 01:39:11 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 09, 2020, 04:45:17 AM
It's times like this when a little help from the media could be useful.  Mysterious actions by a government are spooky, and don't build confidence in leadership.

It's...kind of different. It's gonna be bad...but you know, it is gonna be good long term. Otherwise, it's FUBAR.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 09, 2020, 02:03:39 PM
Trump just fired the Secretary of Defense for disagreeing with him about sending in national troops to protest rallies against police brutality last June.
Quote
NYT
Mr. Esper’s downfall had been expected for months, after he took the rare step in June of disagreeing publicly with Mr. Trump and saying that active-duty military troops should not be sent to control the wave of protests in American cities. The president, who had threatened to use the Insurrection Act to do exactly that, was furious, officials said.
How long is it to January?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 09, 2020, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 09, 2020, 09:01:39 AM
I am a natural optimist (one reason these last 4 yrs have been so hard for me) and I think you may be selling Biden a bit short.  This is my thought at this moment--feel free to kick holes in it. :)  Biden is just the right personality that is needed right now.  He has 50yrs of political 'service'.  He knows the people in congress and the other 'movers and shakers'.  He is highly regarded in most circles in DC.  He has a history of caring (or at least respecting) for people, has a reputation of being a healer, of being able to be empathetic and sympathetic.  He has a task of undoing the trump evil and I think he can do that long, slow job.  He will not do anything groundbreaking, but doing repair work, work that he has done in the past (just not to the level he will need to do it now).  I do not see him fired up, or even caring much about, any career building that a younger politician would care about. I can even see him stepping down after 4 years of repair and letting the younger dems take over.  Biden does not have an ego problem.  I see him thinking of himself of more of a bridge than hard-charger for change.  Anyway, he very well may be just the thing we need now in DC.

While I don't expect huge leaps in progress from Biden, especially if Republicans continue to hold the Senate majority in January, after thinking about it, I've come to the conclusion that Biden is definitely what we needed right now. He's basically the total opposite of what Trump is. Trump dedicated his entire political career to dividing this country, to sowing anger, and granting legitimacy to conspiracy theories. Biden may have run as a Democrat, but he's a Centrist. All of Trump's attempts to paint him as a radical, who plans to defund the police and turn America to socialism failed because we knew who he was. Trump entered office with zero experience, and his incompetence in the arena showed. Biden, on the other hand, has had decades of experience, serving in the Senate as far back as 1973. The Right attempted to spin this as a negative, but that's rich coming from the party of career politicians. Biden's goal has been described several times as to bring the Left and the Right together, and to promote compromise over party division. I believe that he genuinely means that, and he has a personal relationship with McConnell, the Senate majority leader. Now, McConnell is one of the most partisan Republicans in office, but if Biden is able to get through to him, maybe we can actually get some stuff done.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 09, 2020, 02:22:49 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 09, 2020, 01:36:21 PMNeither support eliminating private insurance and replacing it with Medicare-for-All.
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/36621003/itd-be-a-lot-cooler-if-you-did.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on November 09, 2020, 02:27:44 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 08, 2020, 12:08:45 PM
(https://i.redd.it/7011elnm4yx51.jpg)

Arguably, they did a better job there than the coronavirus response.
I guess you could say they were caught between a cock and a charred place.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 09, 2020, 02:36:31 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 09, 2020, 02:19:47 PMBiden's goal has been described several times as to bring the Left and the Right together, and to promote compromise over party division
That's a laudable goal though I personally doubt the Right will be receptive to it.  They're too used to sabre-rattling and sectarian warfare to give it up now.  Personally, I believe this is going to end up like the Aesop's fable about the frog and the scorpion.  But hey, it might turn out like the turtle and the scorpion.  You never know.  Either way, I'm glad I'm not the one sticking my neck out.

QuoteI believe that he genuinely means that, and his personal relationship with McConnell. Now, McConnell is one of the most partisan Republicans in office, but if Biden is able to get through to him, maybe we can actually get some stuff done.
I wouldn't count on it, unfortunately.  I expect McConnell to behave no differently than he has during Trump and Obama presidencies.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 09, 2020, 02:57:14 PM
If Trump could have stopped tweeting and behaved like a world leader I think he would have won the election. Even though Trump was delivering for conservatives, he couldn't become a better version of himself, he simply couldn't manage his narcissism. From Philip Klein, executive editor of the conservative Washington Examiner (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/donald-trump-lost-the-presidency-because-he-refused-to-act-like-a-president):

... Trump had so many chances to act like a president. He could have shed his campaign-style once he was elected or sworn in. Instead, he began his presidency spending days digging into a pointless lie about the size of his inauguration crowds.

Throughout his presidency, Trump’s Twitter feed and his public statements were filled with invective. He spread conspiracies and lobbed insults. Nearly every controversy Trump created during his time in office was due to his failure to grasp the gravity of the office â€" that saying things as president can carry significant consequences and thus is different than saying them as a private citizen. A stray tweet can rock the stock market or trigger an unnecessary foreign policy crisis or spread dangerous disinformation. ...

Unfortunately for the nation, as well as his reelection prospects, he was incapable of doing so. He could not abandon the persona of indulging petty feuds during a pandemic. He could not understand that in a time of crisis, people want the truth, not happy talk and unsubstantiated boasts about how great things were going and how quickly it would be over. ...

History will record that Trump tried to downplay the virus. But as we write the rough draft, it’s important to note that Trump’s behavior was not just unserious but erratic. It would be one thing if, from the get-go, he argued that people shouldn’t give up their lives due to the coronavirus and resisted lockdowns. Instead, he was all over the place. He embraced “15 days to slow the spread” and then extended it. He tweeted, “Liberate Michigan,” and then, when Georgia tried to ease restrictions, he said that he “strongly disagreed” with Gov. Brian Kemp. Trump repeatedly praised Anthony Fauci and listened to pretty much all of his recommendations for months, but then closed out the campaign indulging chants of “Fire Fauci” at a raucous campaign rally.

As Trump faces obvious defeat, he is still incapable of putting the country before his fragile ego. He is making unsubstantiated accusations that the election has been stolen and claiming to have won “by a lot.” He will likely drag the country through weeks of litigation and months more of riling up his supporters about election fraud. In short, he will still not be able to behave like a president.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 09, 2020, 04:45:03 PM
Bwahah ... unite Hitler and Stalin ... that worked out well, for less than 2 years.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 09, 2020, 10:08:39 PM
This sounds encouraging.


https://youtu.be/U9OklK9JBmA
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 09, 2020, 11:18:55 PM
Biden isn't smart now, if he ever was.  I don't think anyone who runs for President is smart.  The grifters who want to be officials in the Administration, those are the smart ones, as in evil smart.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 09, 2020, 11:25:12 PM
Yeah, it's nice Biden is getting a crack team together.  He certainly has his work cut out from him.  The first year or two of his presidency will likely just be cleaning up the gigantic mess of the past 4 years.

For starters, he's going to have to fumigate the Oval Office and get everything wiped down with disinfecting wipes to get rid of the covid.  Maybe grab a broom to coax Eric out and I believe Giuliani is still most vulnerable at midday.  Maybe use a stake-winch thing like in that John Carpenter movie.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 10, 2020, 02:45:05 AM
I don't agree with Philip Klein. Actually, I don't agree with the general idea of 'if Trump was or had done...'  What's that? Conservative apologetics? The problem is not one man.

Forget about the president Trump, what does this man do? Who is he? What does he do for a living? He is a sleazy salesman with a net worth of 2.5 billion dolars. His life is based founding businesses and bankrupting them, he doesn't give a fuck about the people in the bussinesses he failed. He can't. If he did, he wouldn't be able to do this job and what's more, it doesn't even touch him remotely.

If Trump had acted like a president that man described, he wouldn't have had this support and the following. He wouldn't have even won. Trump knows this better than his critiques, because he has read America better than anyone as a salesman for the period. That's his real job.

And they loved him for that, there was an instant bond between this man and his group, because those people see that vulgarity, those controversies and conspiracy as 'saying it the way he sees it' = 'the truth'. You keep telling how it is all badly corrupt at both sides, how fucked up all system is...etc and how repulsed you all are. I have been reading this for nearly a decade.

Well, that's what Trump exploited by speaking the other America's language. He exploited what all hard working Americans feel and turned it into a product to sell his target group in the right time. After Obama. He knew that the more he contrasted him, the better he would sell his.

Do you honestly think, as a person, Donald Trump is so stupid that he doesn't understand the difference of his own style and what has been before him in that office?

The problem is not Trump. It's a symptom. Trump was just there and he fit. They will create their own Trump if necessary.

It's the certain group of people. What do they want? Do they actually want anything at all or is this just about being a part of something they think is meaningful? What is it?

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 10, 2020, 08:50:48 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 10, 2020, 02:45:05 AM
I don't agree with Philip Klein. Actually, I don't agree with the general idea of 'if Trump was or had done...'  What's that? Conservative apologetics? The problem is not one man.

If Trump had acted like a president that man described, he wouldn't have had this support and the following. He wouldn't have even won. Trump knows this better than his critiques, because he has read America better than anyone as a salesman for the period. That's his real job.
His strength is in his salesmanship for sure.  He did tap into something in America that I thought was long dead, and I think many others thought it was a dead issue too.  Could he have made more changes that would have strengthened his support?  Maybe, but he didn't.  He played to his main strengths and then dramatically increased his support in his second election by playing to those strengths. 

It's nice to bask in Biden's victory, and I still am, but I haven't lost sight of how phenomenally well Trump did the second time around, and he did that without using all those "could of" and "should ofs" that Philip Klein points to.  Had this not been a record turnout, he would have won by a large margin, especially in the electoral college. 

But why the record turnout?  This election was about Trump, both for his supporters and those who voted for Biden.  Biden is not powerful enough to generate enough interest to cause a record turnout.  But Trump is.  I'm pretty sure we can thank Trump for the turnout of his supporters and those people like me who just couldn't take any more of him.

Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 10, 2020, 02:45:05 AM
Do you honestly think, as a person, Donald Trump is so stupid that he doesn't understand the difference of his own style and what has been before him in that office?
I've wondered about that a lot.  Is the man smart or stupid?  Probably a bit of both.  He's a Hell of a salesman, and that takes smarts, at least smarts of a psychopathic nature. As a politician, maybe not so smart.  Bottom line, he's lacking in the intelligence required to stay in office as much as today's pollsters are lacking the knowledge of predicting political outcomes.  It may just be that he happened to be good at the things that successful politicians need in TODAY'S political environment.  He just happened to show up at the right time, speaking to the emotions of people, rather than their intellect.  He just hasn't mastered the art of knowing when to stop pushing buttons when he needs to.  This was evident in the last months before the election, instead of softening his positions and reaching out across the isle when it looked like things were going south, he doubled down on what he does best.  But it only works with less than half of the voters, and half of those voters don't usually show up at the polls, except for this year.

Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 10, 2020, 02:45:05 AM
The problem is not Trump. It's a symptom. Trump was just there and he fit. They will create their own Trump if necessary.
That's what I think.  He was just in the right place at the right time, talking to a nation in decay.

Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 10, 2020, 02:45:05 AM
It's the certain group of people. What do they want? Do they actually want anything at all or is this just about being a part of something they think is meaningful? What is it?
That's a hard question, and I can't even speculate.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 10, 2020, 09:12:11 AM
The elephant in the room is always religion. If you are taught as a kid to swallow all that nonsense; you are set-up to TRUELY believe anything and everything, as along as it suits your purposes. It lowers the rationality threshold standards of a society. This is why so many rabid tRumpsters happen to go big on Cheese-us and suck up conspiracy after conspiracy. The only way out is subsequent generations that largely ditch the faith. Not there yet, but the boomers are dying out and it seems their kids do have better vision.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 10, 2020, 09:21:24 AM
If you believe that Noah built an Ark and filled it with dinosaurs and your vacation to the Ark Encounter in Kentucky was astonishing, then Bill Gates creating a virus so he can vaccinate the population with his 5G chips must easily seem plausible.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 10:40:19 AM
Quote from: Cassia on November 10, 2020, 09:21:24 AM
If you believe that Noah built an Ark and filled it with dinosaurs and your vacation to the Ark Encounter in Kentucky was astonishing, then Bill Gates creating a virus so he can vaccinate the population with his 5G chips must easily seem plausible.

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/patent/US-2006257852-A1

https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/

Bill & Melinda Gates foundation have long involvement in medical research.  No, he isn't Mandark (cartoon), he doesn't even have a hidden lab in his parent's basement like Poindexter.  That isn't how evil billionaires work.

If people want to believe that Biden never assaulted any women or showed inappropriate attention to children, that he isn't as degenerate as his son Hunter, they can believe what they want.  But women have made claims, and there is film of Biden showing inappropriate attention to children.

But if people want instead, to believe that there is no such thing as evil, then rob, rape and murder to their heart's content.  The Marquis De Sade never existed, CNN has disproved it ;-))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 10:42:50 AM
Quote from: Cassia on November 10, 2020, 09:12:11 AM
The elephant in the room is always religion. If you are taught as a kid to swallow all that nonsense; you are set-up to TRUELY believe anything and everything, as along as it suits your purposes. It lowers the rationality threshold standards of a society. This is why so many rabid tRumpsters happen to go big on Cheese-us and suck up conspiracy after conspiracy. The only way out is subsequent generations that largely ditch the faith. Not there yet, but the boomers are dying out and it seems their kids do have better vision.

“When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing. They then become capable of believing in anything.” - Émile Cammaerts .. as in democracy, money, Karl Marx etc etc .. it isn't elephants or quanta all the way down, it is BS.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 10, 2020, 10:53:17 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 10, 2020, 02:45:05 AM
It's a certain group of people. What do they want? Do they actually want anything at all or is this just about being a part of something they think is meaningful? What is it?

I don't understand why so many people are puzzled by Trump's appeal? It isn't like this is a fringe group, it's almost half the voters in the US. People voted for Trump for a variety of reasons and if you listen to Trump voters many of these reasons make sense. Just sit down with a Trump voter and listen to their story.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 11:00:47 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 10, 2020, 10:53:17 AM
I don't understand why so many people are puzzled by Trump's appeal? It isn't like this is a fringe group, it's almost half the voters in the US. People voted for Trump for a variety of reasons and if you listen to Trump voters many of these reasons make sense. Just sit down with a Trump voter and listen to their story.

We can't all be upper class Weed farmers with a PhD in basketweaving from Berkeley ;-)  But no, he didn't appeal to me.  And given my phobia of sexual abusers, he never could.  But that applies to many public figures.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 10, 2020, 11:18:26 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 10, 2020, 10:53:17 AM
I don't understand why so many people are puzzled by Trump's appeal? It isn't like this is a fringe group, it's almost half the voters in the US. People voted for Trump for a variety of reasons and if you listen to Trump voters many of these reasons make sense. Just sit down with a Trump voter and listen to their story.
I was, and am, still puzzled by trump's followers.  Part of that, is that trump is the symptom and not the actual source of the disease.  I had not an inkling that our society was THAT sick.  Now I know.  Trump tapped into that huge part of our society that I thought was only a tiny fraction.  I think I ended up being the 'stupid' one in that I really thought racism was on the run, white nationalism/nazism was waning, the middle class was making headway, immigration was still mostly favored, and that conservatism (of the William Buckley type) was losing steam--and I could go on and on.  That tRumpism is not the cause and just the symptom will take awhile for me to fully grok.  I also knew that all organized religions are a generally destructive force, I simply did not realize just how MUCH christianity is destructive to this society.  As it turns out, the Howard Zinn's of the world were under reporting just how sick this society was/is.  That will take awhile for me to take in and re-evaluate it all. 

And I have talked with my trumpy neighbors (which is all of them!) about things and I walk away wondering about their overriding hate. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 11:34:44 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 10, 2020, 11:18:26 AM
I was, and am, still puzzled by trump's followers.  Part of that, is that trump is the symptom and not the actual source of the disease.  I had not an inkling that our society was THAT sick.  Now I know.  Trump tapped into that huge part of our society that I thought was only a tiny fraction.  I think I ended up being the 'stupid' one in that I really thought racism was on the run, white nationalism/nazism was waning, the middle class was making headway, immigration was still mostly favored, and that conservatism (of the William Buckley type) was losing steam--and I could go on and on.  That tRumpism is not the cause and just the symptom will take awhile for me to fully grok.  I also knew that all organized religions are a generally destructive force, I simply did not realize just how MUCH christianity is destructive to this society.  As it turns out, the Howard Zinn's of the world were under reporting just how sick this society was/is.  That will take awhile for me to take in and re-evaluate it all. 

And I have talked with my trumpy neighbors (which is all of them!) about things and I walk away wondering about their overriding hate.

Where you puzzled by people who voted for Nixon?  Just asking.  I found both candidates in 2016 and 2020 morally reprehensible ... though after the fact, I thought policy wise, Trump did better than I expected.  I had expected that he would require everyone to take up golf and play at his golf courses on a fixed schedule ;-)

No, Bill Buckley never ran for President.  Had he done so, the IQ and vocabulary of the US would have gone up ;-)  But then, he was a Catholic.  I don't see Trump as religious at all, purely materialistic, same as Biden.  Bill Buckley kept the John Birchers out of the Republican party, just as Hillary kept the Bernie Bros out of the Democrat party.  But not this year, the Dems were so desperate they embarrass Satan himself ;-(
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 10, 2020, 11:49:58 AM
Quote from: Cassia on November 10, 2020, 09:12:11 AMThe only way out is subsequent generations that largely ditch the faith. Not there yet, but the boomers are dying out and it seems their kids do have better vision.
That seems to be the case, though I'm flabberghasted about the why of it.

The Boomer generation counts among its ranks plenty of smart, compassionate people and plenty of egomaniacal knuckledraggers.  And when it comes time to vote, they almost always favor the latter.  Why?

And it's not just elections: these people have had meltdowns about alleged satanic cults, meltdowns about video games (curiously timed at the height of mainstream adoption), meltdowns about pressing 1 for english, meltdowns about gay marriage, meltdowns at Target about trans bathrooms, and finally, meltdowns about masks (though that last one seems to be trending younger).  Mass hysteria after mass hysteria about stuff that's not nearly as frightening as it's made out to be.  And don't get me wrong, not all boomers are like this.  But people who are like this are disproportionately boomers.  What happened?

If I had to hazard a guess, it's due to this generation experiencing the shift from general news (news delivered by the Big Three networks) to ideologically-tailored news (Fox News) as well as being mentally unprepared for the emergence of the internet and more vulnerable to internet-based disinformation.

Subsequent generations have shown somewhat more resilience (for now), but that could change the instant someone builds a better mousetrap braintrap.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 11:51:38 AM
Good men build good economies
Good economies lead to bad men
Bad men build bad economies
Bad economies lead to good men

Yes, it is inevitable that there is one world atheist government under the UN or CCP etc and everyone lived happily ever after ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on November 10, 2020, 11:51:57 AM
Trumps “secret” is not really a secret. It shows how much distain we have for politicians that a “business” man as lousy as he is, is considered far better than another politician. I hope they realize this or the next one to try will be a real Lex Luther.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 11:53:35 AM
Jesus as businessman/politician is the answer ... nobody else need apply ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on November 10, 2020, 11:58:50 AM
It's been reported that Trump's crowdfunding to fight the legal battles against the "voter fraud" he is claiming to have happened, is actually being used to pay his campaign debts... lol

https://www.salon.com/2020/11/09/fine-print-on-trump-legal-challenge-fundraising-emails-says-money-will-be-used-to-pay-campaign-debt/
https://news.yahoo.com/trumps-flurry-campaign-defense-fund-094844061.html
https://www.businessinsider.com/donations-trump-legal-fund-spent-on-paying-off-campaign-debt-2020-11
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 10, 2020, 12:00:37 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 10, 2020, 11:18:26 AM
.... I also knew that all organized religions are a generally destructive force, I simply did not realize just how MUCH christianity is destructive to this society....
As many great minds have pointed out, the Nazis had centuries in the practice of worshiping a charismatic savior and disparaging competing religions. When Adolph came along, they were primed and ready to be saved. As for the godless communist dictatorships, they were also ready to simply swap one totalitarian celestial party with a community of earthly administrators for an earthly party and a secret celestial totalitarian leader.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 10, 2020, 12:27:28 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 10, 2020, 09:12:11 AM
. This is why so many rabid tRumpsters happen to go big on Cheese-us and suck up conspiracy after conspiracy. The only way out is subsequent generations that largely ditch the faith. .

"Trump is fat Jesus. He's grab-them-by-the-pussy Jesus. He's I'll-eat-nothing-but-cheeseburgers-if-I-want-to Jesus. He's I-want-to-punch-them-in-the-face Jesus. He's go-back-to-your-shithole-countries Jesus. He's no-apologies Jesus."

https://youtu.be/j3xBUNIkA_c
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 12:34:26 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 10, 2020, 12:00:37 PM
As many great minds have pointed out, the Nazis had centuries in the practice of worshiping a charismatic savior and disparaging competing religions. When Adolph came along, they were primed and ready to be saved. As for the godless communist dictatorships, they were also ready to simply swap one totalitarian celestial party with a community of earthly administrators for an earthly party and a secret celestial totalitarian leader.

Jesus is responsible for Hitler?  Read Constantine's Sword by James Carroll.  The real skinny on German anti-Semitism.  Of course anti-Semitism is a world-wide phenomenon.  Complicated by the popular impression in the 20s-30s that Communism was part of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion (a Okrana propaganda borrowed from French Catholic anti-Semites).  I blame Arminius ... the German patriot that destroyed Varus' legions.  The Germans had a penchant for strong leaders long before Christianity.  The French got their anti-Semitism both from Christianity, and from Voltaire.

Current anti-Semitism is separate from anti-Israeli .. though anti-Semites combine the two.  It is clear that Obama and Biden are anti-Israel.  Trump is clearly pro-Israel.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 10, 2020, 12:38:32 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 10, 2020, 09:12:11 AM
The elephant in the room is always religion. If you are taught as a kid to swallow all that nonsense; you are set-up to TRUELY believe anything and everything, as along as it suits your purposes. It lowers the rationality threshold standards of a society. This is why so many rabid tRumpsters happen to go big on Cheese-us and suck up conspiracy after conspiracy. The only way out is subsequent generations that largely ditch the faith. Not there yet, but the boomers are dying out and it seems their kids do have better vision.

What drives me crazy is that both sides HAVE to be religious. Both sides consider religiosity a virtue. Yet, despite this, Republicans will still pretend that the entire Democratic party are atheists. Yeah, I fucking wish atheists had any power in government. I'm tired of religion being used as a crutch in this country.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 12:41:52 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 10, 2020, 12:38:32 PM
What drives me crazy is that both sides HAVE to be religious. Both sides consider religiosity a virtue. Yet, despite this, Republicans will still pretend that the entire Democratic party are atheists. Yeah, I fucking wish atheists had any power in government. I'm tired of religion being used as a crutch in this country.

i would be happy if there was a clear choice ... Black party, White party, Religious parties (you can't have just one), atheist party ... then people could clearly vote for what they like.  How about a float boat fishing party?  Anyone who does fish from a float boat votes for that party, but no other?  Fly fishermen will be burned if they vote for the wrong party ;-)

I am tired of stupidity being used as a crutch for everything in life, but "it is the way".
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 10, 2020, 01:04:09 PM
Trump is supposedly raising funds for an election legal battle but it's actually going towards paying off campaign debt (https://www.businessinsider.com/donations-trump-legal-fund-spent-on-paying-off-campaign-debt-2020-11)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 01:09:55 PM
Money is evil.  Please send me yours ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 10, 2020, 01:22:33 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 10, 2020, 01:04:09 PM
Trump is supposedly raising funds for an election legal battle but it's actually going towards paying off campaign debt (https://www.businessinsider.com/donations-trump-legal-fund-spent-on-paying-off-campaign-debt-2020-11)

I can't even begin to think of all the ways Trump is going to use his term as president to financial advantage for his family and himself.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 01:26:41 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 10, 2020, 01:22:33 PM
I can't even begin to think of all the ways Trump is going to use his term as president to financial advantage for his family and himself.

So if money is evil, send me yours?  Bidens, Clintons, Obamas all make moolah.  Good if a Democrat?  Politicians have been doing this since Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 10, 2020, 01:50:42 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on November 10, 2020, 11:58:50 AM
It's been reported that Trump's crowdfunding to fight the legal battles against the "voter fraud" he is claiming to have happened, is actually being used to pay his campaign debts... lol

https://www.salon.com/2020/11/09/fine-print-on-trump-legal-challenge-fundraising-emails-says-money-will-be-used-to-pay-campaign-debt/
https://news.yahoo.com/trumps-flurry-campaign-defense-fund-094844061.html
https://www.businessinsider.com/donations-trump-legal-fund-spent-on-paying-off-campaign-debt-2020-11

Yeah, just one more scam for money on his way out the door, which, of course, will hit him where the Good Lord split him.

I'm convinced that the right-wing echo chamber spewing Russian propaganda is responsible for the vast majority of Trump supporters.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 10, 2020, 02:02:39 PM
Quote from: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 01:09:55 PM
Money is evil.  Please send me yours ;-)

Money IS evil, so I have none to send you.

;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 10, 2020, 02:04:51 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 10, 2020, 01:22:33 PM
I can't even begin to think of all the ways Trump is going to use his term as president to financial advantage for his family and himself.

Tromp and his progeny are all suckers - they suck up money like Roombas.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 10, 2020, 02:08:43 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on November 10, 2020, 11:58:50 AM
It's been reported that Trump's crowdfunding to fight the legal battles against the "voter fraud" he is claiming to have happened, is actually being used to pay his campaign debts... lol
Gah, I saw your post, liked it, then posted the same news article later.  D'oh!  Person, man, woman, camera, I forget the last one lol.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 10, 2020, 02:12:28 PM
I think it was "TV."


LOL
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 10, 2020, 02:29:31 PM
Eric Trump tweets that Minnesota should go out and vote (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/election-eric-trump-twitter-minnesota-vote-b1720416.html)

He's like a human version of Internet Explorer.

Lindsay Graham: "If Republicans don’t challenge and change the U.S. election system, there will never be another Republican president elected again" (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/11/09/lindsey-grahams-curious-conspiratorial-argument-why-trump-should-fight-election-results/)

Saying the quiet part loud.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 10, 2020, 02:52:54 PM
Also, Biden met with Pence to work together on a smooth transition from one administration to another.

...exactly 4 years ago.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 04:59:51 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 10, 2020, 02:02:39 PM
Money IS evil, so I have none to send you.

;-)

You are the only person posting here who isn't a hypocrite.  That is a very admirable thing.

Biden wasn't Hillary in 2016.  She continued the Obama supported coup all the way to today and beyond.  Obama, Biden and even George W have been useful demons for Hillary.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 10, 2020, 05:50:56 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 10, 2020, 01:22:33 PM
I can't even begin to think of all the ways Trump is going to use his term as president to financial advantage for his family and himself.
......'going to use' (insert) and has been using....................
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 10, 2020, 07:43:02 PM
Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) â€" Refusing to concede a presidential election he lost, President Donald Trump sought falsely to take full credit for drugmaker Pfizer Inc.’s announcement that its COVID-19 vaccine may be 90% effective, wrongly asserted the vaccine news was delayed until after Election Day to undermine him and repeated baseless claims of voter fraud.
I'm thinking this must have been posted already, but I can't remember seeing it.

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-ap-fact-check-donald-trump-business-virus-outbreak-108077c4b716db604ee49b42c6d64af0
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 10, 2020, 08:17:08 PM
Fact-checking Trump is a full-time job!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 10, 2020, 08:20:13 PM
Quote from: Baruch on November 10, 2020, 04:59:51 PM
You are the only person posting here who isn't a hypocrite.
I seriously doubt that. I've seen little hypocracy from the regular posters, but the drive-bys are often full of it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 10, 2020, 08:23:21 PM
It seems like for the last week or so, I've become aware of main stream media qualifying Trump statements as false.  So much of the time, these incidents are reported as "Trump falsely stated that bla bla bla."  Unless I haven't been paying close attention, this is new to the news.  In the past, one of pet peeves about the news outlets, both TV and news print is that they would happily report whatever a politician said, and then just let it go.  OK, I get that.  They simply report and strictly speaking that is the news.

But isn't that the same thing as reporting fake news?  Sure, people can take it or leave it, but a lot of people will believe it because it's on the news.  It struck me as the media was shirking responsibility and adopting a position of, "Hey we didn't say it.  We just reported it."  My suspicion was that they were afraid of politicians, and I understand politicians in response, may clam up, resulting in less news to report.

But I remember some old saw that freedom and democracy were closely tied to a free press, and I never actually accepted that my perception was entirely accurate, but where does freedom of the press end?  Twitter and Facebook are finally exercising some responsibility with the stuff they allow on their sites.  I agree with the idea of a freedom of the press, but I think that over the years we may have neglected the idea of responsibility of the press.  And I'm hoping that we continue to see more responsible press in the future.  That goes for both parties.  Trump just happens to be the worst so he's taking the brunt of the fact checking right now.  But for Godsakes, if you are going to print political rubbish, at least identify it as such.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 10, 2020, 09:07:52 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 10, 2020, 08:23:21 PMIt seems like for the last week or so, I've become aware of main stream media qualifying Trump statements as false.
Yeah, they finally grew a backbone now that they know he's done for.  Previously, it would just be a "controversy" and he-said-she-said between Trump and whoever was more or less forced to defend reality that week.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 10, 2020, 09:18:16 PM
(https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2020/11/browning-tweet-featured.jpg?resize=865,452)

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/republican-dean-browning-gay/

As a gay goth Methodist archbishop for Jeb, I'm shocked and appalled that people would lie on the internet in a sad bid to manipulate key identity groups among one's political rivals.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 10, 2020, 10:30:14 PM
Dean Browning is black?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 10, 2020, 10:35:18 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 10, 2020, 10:30:14 PMDean Browning is black?
Not any more than I'm a gay goth archbishop.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 10, 2020, 11:13:51 PM
PA postal worker admits his allegations of ballot tampering were trumped up, got $136,000 from GOP for fake news (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/us-election-postal-claims-fraud-ballot-votes-pennsylvania-b1720810.html)

Paying these people a dollar is like buying gasoline for the getaway van.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 11, 2020, 08:02:52 AM
Trump saying "every vote should be counted," sounds like Democrats weren't saying this long before Trump wanted to stop the vote count.  Maybe if he says it louder, people will think this was his idea.  Maybe like no one ever had such an idea before.  Count every vote!  Yeah, that seems like a good idea, why didn't I think of that?

I saw Chris Wallace on Fox news saying, "When you go to the court to present a case, it's up to the plaintiff to present evidence that the court can consider, but Trump doesn't have any evidence.  It's kind of like Trump is asking the court to find the evidence for him."  Then Trump can stop the count our throw out ballots.

Watching Trump's personality decomposition in the last few months is a case study for psychiatry.  It's hard to think straight under extreme duress, and that's what seems to be happening to Trump.  It almost seems like this is the first time in his life that Trump has been forced to face reality.  It's unfamiliar ground, and if you're not used to it, it's frustrating as Hell as your thinking becomes more and more disconnected.  In the past, he was able to invent his own reality and he could live in it just fine, while others thought they were just watching  a grown up version of "Alice in Wonderland."

I'll go out on a limb and say that Trump entered the presidency with the fantasy dream of finally being able to do anything he wanted.  Everyone knows only dictators get to do that, and even Trump's cries of, "But I wanna.  I wanna," just weren't enough to make his dream come true.  Maybe, just maybe, there's enough inertia behind our democracy to keep it going for another four years.  That would be really nice.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 11, 2020, 08:09:34 AM
If you have a bad day at work, come home and kick the dog.  If you're the president who can't get reelected, fire the Secretary of Defense or take away millions of people's health insurance, but don't bottle that anger up.  Alternatively, you might consider growing up.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 11, 2020, 10:22:53 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 10, 2020, 08:20:13 PM
I seriously doubt that. I've seen little hypocracy from the regular posters, but the drive-bys are often full of it.

I would characterize the drive-bys as ignorant.  People here see politics and religion as different, but the psychological coping (see new string in medical section) mechanisms are the same.  G-d as Father or Trump/Biden as Father.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 11, 2020, 12:07:10 PM
Nearly 80% of Americans accept that Biden won, 72% say the loser must concede defeat (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-idUSKBN27Q3ED)

About 6 in 10 Republicans and almost every Democrat said Biden won.  If you think Republicans are unusually slow to accept reality on this, just check out how they view climate change.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 11, 2020, 12:41:22 PM
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-packages/fact-check-video-shows-police-collecting-discarded-amazon-packages-not-thousands-of-trump-ballots-idUSKBN27Q2JC

QuoteSocial media users have claimed a video shows police finding thousands of ballots for U.S. President Donald Trump dumped in a field. This is not true; local police report that the footage actually shows discarded Amazon packages.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 11, 2020, 12:54:54 PM
Remember when they used to take pictures of buses and use that as evidence that "illegals" were bused in to vote for Democrats?  (clearly, there's no other explanation)

That's exactly the sort of standards of evidence one might expect for people who thought 2011 was the End Times.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 11, 2020, 01:02:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bigN7DY3SKQ

President Biden sure has his work cut out for him.  And tactically, I dunno if offering these people an olive branch is the right call, but I guess you have to try, fruitless as it may be.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 11, 2020, 01:36:40 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 11, 2020, 01:02:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bigN7DY3SKQ

President Biden sure has his work cut out for him.  And tactically, I dunno if offering these people an olive branch is the right call, but I guess you have to try, fruitless as it may be.

Yes, a peace pipe, like the Great White Father always offers to the indigenous ;-)

Democrats are the "illegals" since 1860.  Most Democrats in 1860 were in the North (South having a much smaller population).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 11, 2020, 01:58:07 PM
Baruch, things are not now as they were 160 years ago. Catch up with current events!

;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 11, 2020, 03:05:34 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 11, 2020, 01:58:07 PM
Baruch, things are not now as they were 160 years ago. Catch up with current events!

;-)

Dems still favor slavery, just are less racist about it.  They can never be forgiven.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on November 11, 2020, 07:43:22 PM
I love how Baruch has conversations with everyone and no one at the exact same time.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 11, 2020, 08:15:02 PM
I guess he never gets lonely that way.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 11, 2020, 08:30:13 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 11, 2020, 08:15:02 PM
I guess he never gets lonely that way.

My cats are smarter than dog owners ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 11, 2020, 10:48:20 PM
LGBTQ candidate wins House seat, Poor Boys gangmember loses (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1246790)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 12, 2020, 09:00:23 AM
But BLM supporters did win office, and Sharia supporter won office ;-)

Pfaux-ahontas and Hillary and Bernie all want cabinet positions in the sleepy Joe administration ... alien criminal clown world, like the movie It.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 12, 2020, 11:44:24 AM
Nature: Trump uses Twitter to divert discussion on politically damaging topics (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19644-6)

Ever wonder why Trump says something completely batshit and extremely attention-grabbing?  It's because some politically-damaging news recently came out and he wants you to pay attention to him and not the politically-damaging news.

Nothing we didn't already suspect, the internet in general and Twitter in particular have been used to set the agenda (i.e. determine what gets discussed and what doesn't).  It should be noted that Trump's technique has parallels to how they do things in China - where the news cycle gets saturated with stories that the PRC doesn't find politically objectionable to overwhelm coverage of stories that they do.

And if you think Trump and other Republicans haven't picked up on this, you're wrong.

There are other interesting tidbits in the article:

QuoteIn the United States, the gradual introduction of Fox News coverage in communities around the country has been directly linked to an increase in Republican vote share
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 12, 2020, 12:03:02 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 12, 2020, 11:44:24 AM
Nature: Trump uses Twitter to divert discussion on politically damaging topics (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19644-6)

Ever wonder why Trump says something completely batshit and extremely attention-grabbing?  It's because some politically-damaging news recently came out and he wants you to pay attention to him and not the politically-damaging news.

Nothing we didn't already suspect, but the internet in general and Twitter in particular have been used to set the agenda (i.e. determine what gets discussed and what doesn't).  It should be noted that Trump's technique has parallels to how they do things in China - where the news cycle gets saturated with stories that the PRC doesn't find politically objectionable to overwhelm coverage of stories that they do.

And if you think Trump and other Republicans haven't picked up on this, you're wrong.

There are other interesting tidbits in the article:
Impressed with Biden already. I was reading in the den and the TV was on faintly in the other room. I heard a reassuring voice of reason intelligently speaking about health insurance and also about a task force that will provide a measured response to the pandemic as required. For a moment I thought I was just dreaming. I was awake !!!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 12, 2020, 12:42:47 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 12, 2020, 12:03:02 PMImpressed with Biden already. I was reading in the den and the TV was on faintly in the other room. I heard a reassuring voice of reason intelligently speaking about health insurance and also about a task force that will provide a measured response to the pandemic as required. For a moment I thought I was just dreaming. I was awake !!!
Same here.  I think we had a couple days without presidential scandal after the race was called, which was a breath of fresh air.  And I find myself more impressed than I normally would be by complete sentences and a good grasp on reality.

I'm sure conservatives are going to try to drum up hatred in the coming 4 years (Biden derangement syndrome, I believe they call it), but I don't think they're fully aware of just how much Trump Fatigue non-redcaps feel and how low standards have fallen during the Dark Reign.  If Biden doesn't start punching babies or shooting people on 5th avenue (you lose votes for that in blue states), then he might go down as the most beloved President since FDR.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 12, 2020, 02:16:14 PM
Lol, Biden the rebound president.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 12, 2020, 03:55:06 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 12, 2020, 02:16:14 PM
Lol, Biden the rebound president.

You mean like the rolly polly inflatable clown toy? ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on November 12, 2020, 05:14:14 PM
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/2d9d2c671f9a6c9a4511a4231c0dda4b/tenor.gif?itemid=10143202)
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 12, 2020, 02:16:14 PM
Lol, Biden the rebound president.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 12, 2020, 09:29:41 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 12, 2020, 02:16:14 PMLol, Biden the rebound president.
You kid, but on an emotional level, it's very similar to that.

The old boyfriend was a major-league asshole but some dark part of us was super into that.  The new one is a lot more respectable, if kinda vanilla.  Good background, stable employment, knows how to treat a lady, and he has two lovely dogs!

But when we broke up with our asshole ex, he didn't take it well - he claimed that we didn't mean it and says he doesn't need to pack because he doesn't intend to leave.  Pretty disturbing stuff.  In 2 months, when the lease is up, the new one is all set to move in and there might be a fight.  And it's not all that clear how that's gonna play out.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 13, 2020, 06:48:06 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 12, 2020, 09:29:41 PM
But when we broke up with our asshole ex, he didn't take it well - he claimed that we didn't mean it and says he doesn't need to pack because he doesn't intend to leave.  Pretty disturbing stuff.  In 2 months, when the lease is up, the new one is all set to move in and there might be a fight.  And it's not all that clear how that's gonna play out.
He  seems to admire dictators.  Unless that was just some phony part of building relationships with foreign governments, it's pretty easy to see that he does not have much respect for voters or voting, and fraudulent elections would fit very well into his political strategies, which may explain why he seems to think everyone else is doing it.  A straight out power play doesn't seem like it could possibly succeed in America, although some Republicans probably wouldn't mind at all.  Right now, he's testing his options to see how much monkey business he can get away with as president.  If this doesn't work, his only open option involves being seated by the congressional delegation, or maybe he's thinking this new Secretary of Defense would call up the armed forces to keep him in office.  Sound crazy?  Yep, but then Trump has never acted rationally since he came into power.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 13, 2020, 10:31:31 AM
It's funny 'cause it's true.

https://youtu.be/VZ_0ORgyBDM
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 13, 2020, 11:13:20 AM
All theist votes are illegal = per atheists ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 13, 2020, 01:05:49 PM
Presidential Election ‘Most Secure’ In History, Top Security Experts At DHS Say

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/2020-election-most-secure-dhs_n_5fadd55cc5b6370e7e3158ca
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 13, 2020, 01:33:21 PM
GOP Senator says it's too soon to declare Biden President Elect because Puerto Rico isn't done counting yet (https://www.yahoo.com/now/texas-senator-suggests-too-soon-043000810.html)

(https://i.imgur.com/DMOj22z.png)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 13, 2020, 01:39:50 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 13, 2020, 01:33:21 PM
GOP Senator says it's too soon to declare Biden President Elect because Puerto Rico isn't done counting yet (https://www.yahoo.com/now/texas-senator-suggests-too-soon-043000810.html)

(https://i.imgur.com/DMOj22z.png)

Umm... What? How do you make it to Senate without even knowing what is and is not a state? Also, this originated with a story from the NY Times? What are they on about?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 13, 2020, 01:43:17 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 13, 2020, 01:39:50 PM
Umm... What? How do you make it to Senate without even knowing what is and is not a state?
"Do you not know, my son, with how very little wisdom the world is governed?" - Axel Oxenstierna, 1648
(An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 13, 2020, 01:45:07 PM
If you liked that, you'll love this:

GOP Senator can't even correctly identify three branches of government (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/senator-elect-tuberville-fresh-from-congressional-orientation-misidentifies-the-three-branches-of-government-11605273164)

He identified the three branches of government as House, Senate, and Executive.   :doh:

QuoteTuberville told columnist Todd Stacy that he’d just gone through an abbreviated orientation for new lawmakers, noting “we all had to go through the same time, Republican and Democrat, and it was fun, a good group. They pretty much jam three days into a day and a half because of the COVID.”
It might be a good idea to take a whole week for this stuff.  It's kinda important.  Ideally, knowing the basics of civics would be a prerequisite for running for office, but I guess the GOP has to work with what they got.

Oh, and he also doesn't understand that Biden won.  That basic civics question is far from his only blunder.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 13, 2020, 02:03:39 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 13, 2020, 01:05:49 PM
Presidential Election ‘Most Secure’ In History, Top Security Experts At DHS Say

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/2020-election-most-secure-dhs_n_5fadd55cc5b6370e7e3158ca

Might as well quote DNC as quote any MSM.  Huffpost is very DNC.

Yes, Dominion is as secure as the phone app at the Dem Iowa caucus ;-)  I bet I voted for Biden in my old precinct where I don't live anymore ;-))

You sure you want a nearly dead man as President of a nearly dead country?  Well Harris will fix that for you.  Her ancestors on her father's side were slave owners in Jamaica.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 13, 2020, 04:35:49 PM
Biden take Georgia

https://mail.yahoo.com/b/folders/1/messages/AHAeSbpERhHfX67iSQND8A8pJMY?.src=ym&reason=unsupported_browser&folderType=INBOX&showImages=true&offset=0&domain=nytimes.com

Holy Crap!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 13, 2020, 05:24:51 PM
2022 elections: Dems win every election by 100% just like East Germany ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 13, 2020, 09:46:52 PM
Another 4 years of Trump would be depressing for sure, but what bothers me more is that our system is vulnerable to a political power grab that removes voters from the process.  This is the kind of shit that happens in banana republics.  While 4 years of Trump is depressing, that this could happen in my country scares me.  I will admit real fear.  I'm reading it probably won't happen, but that's the problem.  There shouldn't be "probably won't" at all.  And if these loop holes in the constitution are not fixed, the ultimate collapse will happen just that much sooner.  The worst case scenario would be in the next two months.  OK not a collapse, but a new form of authoritarian government that does even more of whatever it wants than it does now.  I'm picturing some South American style government that is corrupt and totally self serving.  Right now... today... we are watching a potential crisis that in all my years, I'd never thought I would have to watch.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 13, 2020, 09:52:09 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 13, 2020, 09:46:52 PM
  Right now... today... we are watching a potential crisis that in all my years, I'd never thought I would have to watch.
Yep!  Same here.  Have I been sent back to Germany, 1932????
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 13, 2020, 11:41:29 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t3GhBpOqKg
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on November 14, 2020, 01:34:48 AM
Video wins internet
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 14, 2020, 07:24:41 AM
Today's Alabama US Civics Lesson : The 3 branches of federal gov'ment are:
1) Donald
2) Ivanka (he'd date her...)
3) Jared
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 14, 2020, 10:23:41 AM
Quote from: Cassia on November 14, 2020, 07:24:41 AM
Today's Alabama US Civics Lesson : The 3 branches of federal gov'ment are:
1) Donald
2) Ivanka (he'd date her...)
3) Jared


1. Obama
2. Hillary
3. Biden

Biden and Obama as Dragonball Z characters?  That is a Chinese cartoon.  What drugs are you taking? ;-)

The voters are irrelevant.  You are slaves, stupid slaves, who vote for your own slavery and your own destruction (just like Athens).

“A revolution is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery; it cannot be so  refined, so leisurely and gentle, so temperate, kind, courteous,  restrained and magnanimous. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of  violence by which one class overthrows another.” - Ying chang Compestine

Think war is fun?  Think revolution is fun?  You will get a Trump dictatorship or a Harris dictatorship (Biden, don't make me laugh).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 14, 2020, 12:55:36 PM
55 Percent Of White Women, 18 Percent Of Black Men Voted For Donald Trump: Exit Poll
https://www.essence.com/news/politics/55-percent-white-women-trump-election-2020/

What the flying fuck!!!!!  Apparently Trump increased his vote totals across the board.  Yes, this is a sick, sick, ugly, stupid country!  White women 56% for the orange fuck???!!!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 14, 2020, 01:05:19 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 14, 2020, 12:55:36 PM
55 Percent Of White Women, 18 Percent Of Black Men Voted For Donald Trump: Exit Poll
https://www.essence.com/news/politics/55-percent-white-women-trump-election-2020/

What the flying fuck!!!!!  Apparently Trump increased his vote totals across the board.  Yes, this is a sick, sick, ugly, stupid country!  White women 56% for the orange fuck???!!!
These were exit polls.  I don't know for sure, but it probably doesn't  include mail in ballots.  Remember what a rout it looked like when only election day ballots were being totaled?  This may fairly well reflect those votes.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 14, 2020, 01:40:13 PM
It still sickens me that Trump did as well as he did. It's one thing voting for the moron in 2016. But after four years of seeing him in action, they can't use ignorance as an excuse any more. These people saw him tearing children from their mothers, they saw several people who acted on his behalf being convicted of crimes (pleading guilty, in some cases), they saw him dismiss the Corona Virus as a Liberal conspiracy and do next to nothing to slow the spread, they saw him insult veterans alive and dead, and more, and they STILL voted for him. America is a nation full of idiots and assholes.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 14, 2020, 02:10:18 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 14, 2020, 01:05:19 PM
These were exit polls.  I don't know for sure, but it probably doesn't  include mail in ballots.  Remember what a rout it looked like when only election day ballots were being totaled?  This may fairly well reflect those votes.
Didn't think of that.  Hope you are right.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 14, 2020, 02:47:45 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 14, 2020, 01:40:13 PM
It still sickens me that Trump did as well as he did. It's one thing voting for the moron in 2016. But after four years of seeing him in action, they can't use ignorance as an excuse any more. These people saw him tearing children from their mothers, they saw several people who acted on his behalf being convicted of crimes (pleading guilty, in some cases), they saw him dismiss the Corona Virus as a Liberal conspiracy and do next to nothing to slow the spread, they saw him insult veterans alive and dead, and more, and they STILL voted for him. America is a nation full of idiots and assholes.
Case in point, a musician I have played with in bands before. Bad back, constant pain. Works PT as a landscaper. I showed him how to sign up on Healthcare.gov. Gets a $750/month subsidy. Finally getting set up to have back fixed. Votes for Trump.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on November 14, 2020, 04:46:51 PM
I keep thinking about Atwood’s “The Handmaid Tale” and wondering if we are slowly heading that way. Dam good book if you never read it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 14, 2020, 05:20:45 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 14, 2020, 02:47:45 PM
Case in point, a musician I have played with in bands before. Bad back, constant pain. Works PT as a landscaper. I showed him how to sign up on Healthcare.gov. Gets a $750/month subsidy. Finally getting set up to have back fixed. Votes for Trump.

Of course. Vote for the side that thinks Obamacare = Socialism, wanted to replace it with something "better" themselves (it's not Socialism when they do it?), and yet failed to get passed the barebones planning stages in the whole four years they had to try.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 14, 2020, 05:40:29 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 14, 2020, 12:55:36 PM
55 Percent Of White Women, 18 Percent Of Black Men Voted For Donald Trump: Exit Poll
https://www.essence.com/news/politics/55-percent-white-women-trump-election-2020/

What the flying fuck!!!!!  Apparently Trump increased his vote totals across the board.  Yes, this is a sick, sick, ugly, stupid country!  White women 56% for the orange fuck???!!!

Yes, you need to hunt down the feminism traitors and the black men traitors .. MLK was a Democrat Marxist right?  See ... Identity Politics is the 21st century version of the old plantation.  Get the cotton pickers to enjoy their servitude.

"The arrogance of liberal politicians knows no bounds..." ... just guilty of being human, a failed species, not liberal ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 14, 2020, 05:41:25 PM
Quote from: aitm on November 14, 2020, 04:46:51 PM
I keep thinking about Atwood’s “The Handmaid Tale” and wondering if we are slowly heading that way. Dam good book if you never read it.

There are Southern Baptists hiding under your bed ... bwahaha.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 14, 2020, 05:42:38 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 14, 2020, 05:20:45 PM
Of course. Vote for the side that thinks Obamacare = Socialism, wanted to replace it with something "better" themselves (it's not Socialism when they do it?), and yet failed to get passed the barebones planning stages in the whole four years they had to try.

Obamacare mandate, was the breaking point for me.  I would not pay $1000 per month per person for Dem Care (which is all insurance, not medical care, because of the high deductible).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 14, 2020, 08:03:23 PM
Uh... This was unexpected... The Trumpets are marching, chanting words I never thought I'd hear from them.

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1327662470467555329
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 14, 2020, 08:17:09 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 14, 2020, 05:20:45 PM
Of course. Vote for the side that thinks Obamacare = Socialism, wanted to replace it with something "better" themselves (it's not Socialism when they do it?), and yet failed to get passed the barebones planning stages in the whole four years they had to try.
Not sure they are well enuff versed on political systems. It's simpler than that. It's about flags and "the pledge" and 1950s statues of R.E. Lee and "merry xmas" and illegal Mexicans sneaking over here to steal our jobs picking tomatoes. That is about the depth of it I am afraid.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 14, 2020, 08:22:30 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 14, 2020, 08:03:23 PMUh... This was unexpected... The Trumpets are marching, chanting words I never thought I'd hear from them.

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1327662470467555329
The words are lovely, the intent, not so much.  This is like being breaking ranks with Al Qaeda because they're not radical enough and declaring your allegiance to Daesh instead.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 14, 2020, 08:32:10 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 14, 2020, 08:22:30 PM
The words are lovely, the intent, not so much.  This is like being breaking ranks with Al Qaeda because they're not radical enough and declaring your allegiance to Daesh instead.

I saw a comment saying it's like Frankenstein's Monster turning against their creator. Seems like a very fitting analogy. But I still feel a bit of satisfaction hearing them say what we all know is true.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 14, 2020, 09:40:36 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 14, 2020, 08:32:10 PMI saw a comment saying it's like Frankenstein's Monster turning against their creator.
That implies an interest in science.  Maybe more like a poorly-controlled demon.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 14, 2020, 10:08:12 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 14, 2020, 09:40:36 PM
That implies an interest in science.  Maybe more like a poorly-controlled demon.

I think it's more that Fox News created this monster, and now they're turning against them. If Fox News hadn't spent so much time kissing Trump's ass, maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. But they built up Trump as this flawless god, and now he's immune from even their criticism. Welcome to the "fake news" club, Fox News.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 14, 2020, 10:42:43 PM
I dunno, I could see this working in their favor.  This is just another in a long line of aggressive attempts in the Trump years to shift the Overton Window.  Instead of most cable news being mainstream and Fox News viewed as conservative, now it's most cable news viewed as liberal, Fox News viewed as mainstream, and whatever completely batshit network these people like now as conservative.

I mean, you wear a mask during a plague year and these people look at you like you're a commie.  Say that spending on social programs should match military spending* and they would straight up call you a commie.

(* not abolish military spending, not cut military spending, just suggest that spending going towards blowing away wedding guests should be balanced with helping Americans get back on their feet in the midst of an economic depression.  Is that really a radical proposal?  Or one that destroys capitalism?)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 15, 2020, 12:49:40 AM
Quote from: Cassia on November 14, 2020, 08:17:09 PM
Not sure they are well enuff versed on political systems. It's simpler than that. It's about flags and "the pledge" and 1950s statues of R.E. Lee and "merry xmas" and illegal Mexicans sneaking over here to steal our jobs picking tomatoes. That is about the depth of it I am afraid.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/17/34/6f/17346f941d967879cff8aab2bc71286e.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 15, 2020, 01:26:39 AM
It's seems like I heard FOX news starting to get critical of Trump as much as a year ago or more. I never understood why.  I thought maybe their political commentary had limits on how much bullshit it could report as news.  But that seemed too out of character to be a satisfactory explanation.  I can understand better why the Trump knuckle draggers would rebel against FOX, since it's just not the news they want to hear.  To me is looks like all part of the public hysteria that tends to run through American society.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 15, 2020, 02:02:06 AM
Quote from: SGOS on November 15, 2020, 01:26:39 AM
It's seems like I heard FOX news starting to get critical of Trump as much as a year ago or more. I never understood why.  I thought maybe their political commentary had limits on how much bullshit it could report as news.  But that seemed too out of character to be a satisfactory explanation.  I can understand better why the Trump knuckle draggers would rebel against FOX, since it's just not the news they want to hear.  To me is looks like all part of the public hysteria that tends to run through American society.
The news division and talking-heads division have been at odds most of this election season.  It's been fun to watch.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 15, 2020, 03:11:21 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 14, 2020, 10:08:12 PM
I think it's more that Fox News created this monster, and now they're turning against them. If Fox News hadn't spent so much time kissing Trump's ass, maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. But they built up Trump as this flawless god, and now he's immune from even their criticism. Welcome to the "fake news" club, Fox News.

People will remember frankenstein as the monster, not its creator.

QuoteThe form of the monster on whom I had bestowed existence was for ever before my eyes, and I raved incessantly concerning him.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 15, 2020, 10:54:10 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/8DFOykh.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 12:38:21 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 14, 2020, 10:08:12 PM
I think it's more that Fox News created this monster, and now they're turning against them. If Fox News hadn't spent so much time kissing Trump's ass, maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. But they built up Trump as this flawless god, and now he's immune from even their criticism. Welcome to the "fake news" club, Fox News.

You are still trapped in MSM world.  Do you still use a rotary phone?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 12:39:30 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 14, 2020, 08:03:23 PM
Uh... This was unexpected... The Trumpets are marching, chanting words I never thought I'd hear from them.

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1327662470467555329

You don't want to hear the words they say in private ;-(
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 12:40:29 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 14, 2020, 02:47:45 PM
Case in point, a musician I have played with in bands before. Bad back, constant pain. Works PT as a landscaper. I showed him how to sign up on Healthcare.gov. Gets a $750/month subsidy. Finally getting set up to have back fixed. Votes for Trump.

Some people benefit from Dem policies, others don't.  It is the way.  I would have supported ACA if it made all medical free for every American.  It was a crooked deal to bail out the bankrupt health insurance companies, has nothing to do with medical care.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 12:41:09 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 14, 2020, 08:17:09 PM
Not sure they are well enuff versed on political systems. It's simpler than that. It's about flags and "the pledge" and 1950s statues of R.E. Lee and "merry xmas" and illegal Mexicans sneaking over here to steal our jobs picking tomatoes. That is about the depth of it I am afraid.

All White people live in Alabama .. not.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 12:41:49 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 14, 2020, 09:40:36 PM
That implies an interest in science.  Maybe more like a poorly-controlled demon.

Magical thinking is universal, even among some scientists ... cold fusion etc.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 12:45:52 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 15, 2020, 01:26:39 AM
It's seems like I heard FOX news starting to get critical of Trump as much as a year ago or more. I never understood why.  I thought maybe their political commentary had limits on how much bullshit it could report as news.  But that seemed too out of character to be a satisfactory explanation.  I can understand better why the Trump knuckle draggers would rebel against FOX, since it's just not the news they want to hear.  To me is looks like all part of the public hysteria that tends to run through American society.

They had a partial change in ownership (Roger Ailes died), fired O'Reilly etc ... after they were shown the real Zapruder film ;-)  Rupert Murdoch is the greatest yellow journalist since William Randolph Hearst.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 12:46:21 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 15, 2020, 03:11:21 AM
People will remember frankenstein as the monster, not its creator.

Nobody is as ignorant as an American ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: the_antithesis on November 15, 2020, 01:43:57 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 08, 2020, 06:55:16 AM
Is it like a commonwealth?
So,.... communism?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 15, 2020, 01:52:42 PM
Quote from: aitm on November 14, 2020, 04:46:51 PM
I keep thinking about Atwood’s “The Handmaid Tale” and wondering if we are slowly heading that way. Dam good book if you never read it.

I've been expecting for a while that America would become a theocracy, but for now it's still incremental, boiling the frog slowly. But it may not stay that way for long, given the huge number of people who want an authoritarian system based on biblical law. Those are the ones who have never read their Bibles. The form a theocracy might take is hard to see, though.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 15, 2020, 01:56:45 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 14, 2020, 09:40:36 PM
That implies an interest in science.  Maybe more like a poorly-controlled demon.
.
Maybe a golem?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 15, 2020, 02:02:53 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 15, 2020, 10:54:10 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/8DFOykh.jpg)

I don't think a million MAGAs showed up...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 03:21:21 PM
Quote from: the_antithesis on November 15, 2020, 01:43:57 PM
So,.... communism?

Technically, in the US commonwealth refers to several states including VA, MA, PA.  In British terms it refers to a defunct organization that replaced the British Empire, but was itself replaced by GB being F****d by Germany and France.

Communism is good.  Nobody has to work.  Everything will be free (to use) and free (of cost).  No need to use of petroleum because cold fusion and warp drive are real.  Wakanda!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 03:23:45 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 15, 2020, 01:56:45 PM
.
Maybe a golem?

Correct.  You put an extract of the Communist Manifesto on paper, put that into the head of a clay homunculus and say magic Marxist words over him ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 03:25:40 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 15, 2020, 01:52:42 PM
I've been expecting for a while that America would become a theocracy, but for now it's still incremental, boiling the frog slowly. But it may not stay that way for long, given the huge number of people who want an authoritarian system based on biblical law. Those are the ones who have never read their Bibles. The form a theocracy might take is hard to see, though.

In an alternative universe, Pat Robertson took over the US in 1988 (I was afraid of that too).  Back, back into the 80s with you!

Actually VP Pence could still do that.  So pray your Hail Marx on your proletarian beads.  There might not be a million at the march yesterday, but there are 71 million Trump voters who want to put y'all on Comet Pizza.

"Even asking that makes you a racist, misogynistic transphobe--you fascist!" ... no intelligent life on this planet, just posers.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 15, 2020, 03:47:34 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 15, 2020, 02:02:53 PM
I don't think a million MAGAs showed up...
I get that it's hard for MAGAs to accept a Biden win.  After all their voter suppression, gerrymandering, and undermining the mail, the only way Democrats could have won was by cheating.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 15, 2020, 05:49:11 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 15, 2020, 03:47:34 PM
I get that it's hard for MAGAs to accept a Biden win.  After all their voter suppression, gerrymandering, and undermining the mail, the only way Democrats could have won was by cheating.

Y'all never accepted the Lincoln win (twice) or the Trump win in 2016 ... why should the MAGA people let any of you vote again?  You admit cheating?  To Venezuela with you! ;-)

Democrats have never suppressed voting, gerrymandered, tried to destroy the Post Office (Feinstein and her husband).  Of course the Republicans cheat too ... both of you are "deplorables" ;-))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 15, 2020, 06:16:08 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 15, 2020, 02:02:53 PM
I don't think a million MAGAs showed up...
Million MAGA, hell.  I'd bet they didn't have a million teeth among them.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 15, 2020, 06:42:48 PM
Quote from: trdsf on November 15, 2020, 06:16:08 PM
Million MAGA, hell.  I'd bet they didn't have a million teeth among them.
Brain cell to tooth ratio = 1:1. So many living on social security/medicare complaining about liberals. Idiots.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 15, 2020, 07:39:47 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 15, 2020, 03:47:34 PM
I get that it's hard for MAGAs to accept a Biden win.  After all their voter suppression, gerrymandering, and undermining the mail, the only way Democrats could have won was by cheating.

There is clearly a level of denial among some Trump supporters but I think many of them genuinely don't understand how Biden won because they are in an information bubble perpetuated by social media, news aggregators, biased news agencies, and like-minded associates. It's very difficult to navigate the political situation with so much misinformation and a social climate of high anxiety. It's worrisome to me that so many people on one side of the political divide appear to sincerely not understand why the other side voted for their candidate. Because they don't understand, there are people who think supporters of the other candidate are not merely wrong on the issues but have bad intentions. Most people are not malevolent, they have different values and priorities.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 15, 2020, 08:11:05 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 15, 2020, 06:42:48 PM
So many living on social security/medicare complaining about liberals. Idiots.

I admit sometimes when I hear people complaining about "socialism" and government regulation I think: okay, let's get rid of Medicare, Medicaid, and social security. When you arrive at the emergency department with a broken leg, registration will say "We estimate the cost of treatment to be $7989 dollars. Will that be cash or credit card? You don't have the money? Sorry. Please try not to bleed on our floors on your way out." Hospitals treat the uninsured and indigent is because the government requires it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 15, 2020, 08:13:31 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 15, 2020, 07:39:47 PMThere is clearly a level of denial among some Trump supporters but I think many of them genuinely don't understand how Biden won because they are in an information bubble perpetuated by social media, news aggregators, biased news agencies, and like-minded associates.
Just imagine the inverse.

I thought Clinton would narrowly win in 2016, but you don't see me yelling at poll workers to stop counting votes, baselessly claim that the votes for Trump were "illegal", hold a press conference at The Ritz (Cracker factory) to launch lawsuits on all the states that dared go a different way than I expected, say that the media is lying when they call the states (a "rule" I conveniently ignore when a state is called blue), or convince the VP and some members of Congress to refuse to cooperate with a handoff to the President-Elect.  Nor did I call for a laughably small protest group waving Clinton flags and quite a few guns to march on DC to prevent Trump from "stealing" the election.

In fact, any of those things would give me serious misgivings and quite a few of them would cause me withdraw all support.

In 2016, I was disappointed by the results, but I accepted them and supported a peaceful transfer of power, because that's how democracies operate.  And adults respect that.  Children, on the other hand, throw temper tantrums and traitors push for a banana republic.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 15, 2020, 08:16:23 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 15, 2020, 07:39:47 PM
There is clearly a level of denial among some Trump supporters but I think many of them genuinely don't understand how Biden won because they are in an information bubble perpetuated by social media, news aggregators, biased news agencies, and like-minded associates.
In fairness to the Trumpets, they did not engineer the Republican cheating.  That is all done by Trump and other high level party officials, although the Trumpets don't seem to object either.

Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 15, 2020, 07:39:47 PM
It's worrisome to me that so many people on one side of the political divide appear to sincerely not understand why the other side voted for their candidate. Because they don't understand, there are people who think supporters of the other candidate are not merely wrong on the issues but have bad intentions. Most people are not malevolent, they have different values and priorities.
The GOP noise makers don't represent all Republicans. They are the most easily influenced and take to the streets following Trump's example.  I know many Republicans that are not blind followers, and I'm actually close friends with a some.  Yes, they have different priorities.  We are never going to agree on much of anything.  But they can be decent people.

But all that aside, the Trumpets blatantly hypocritical protests against rigged elections was so laughingly absurd that I just couldn't resist taking the shot.  Until someone comes up with actual evidence of wide scale cheating in the election, I will not assume the election belongs to Trump.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 15, 2020, 08:22:54 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 15, 2020, 08:16:23 PMThe GOP noise makers don't represent all Republicans. They are the most easily influenced and take to the streets following Trump's example.  I know many Republicans that are not blind followers, and I'm actually close friends with a some.
True, but the breakdown is about 40% crazies to 60% not-crazy.  A minority, but not a tiny minority.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 15, 2020, 08:27:12 PM
>80% Trump voters say election was illegitimate (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/11/11/more-than-8-in-10-trump-voters-think-bidens-win-is-not-legitimate/)

Maybe much more than a minority!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 15, 2020, 08:57:46 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 15, 2020, 08:27:12 PM
>80% Trump voters say election was illegitimate (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/11/11/more-than-8-in-10-trump-voters-think-bidens-win-is-not-legitimate/)

Maybe much more than a minority!

Makes sense when taking into account many Trump's supporters voted for him because they distrust the government and traditional politics. There is also a contingent that doesn't care if the election was legit, they want Trump to stay president regardless of how the majority voted.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 15, 2020, 09:14:40 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 15, 2020, 08:27:12 PM
>80% Trump voters say election was illegitimate (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/11/11/more-than-8-in-10-trump-voters-think-bidens-win-is-not-legitimate/)

Maybe much more than a minority!
I didn't realize it was that high.  I would have guessed 40/60.  I guess I want to give them more credit than they deserve.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 15, 2020, 10:29:46 PM
That's one of the reasons I like being uninsured and indigent. I haven't seen a doctor in almost 20 years, though - and that was because I got too drunk and hurt my leg.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 15, 2020, 10:32:02 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 15, 2020, 08:11:05 PM
I admit sometimes when I hear people complaining about "socialism" and government regulation I think: okay, let's get rid of Medicare, Medicaid, and social security. When you arrive at the emergency department with a broken leg, registration will say "We estimate the cost of treatment to be $7989 dollars. Will that be cash or credit card? You don't have the money? Sorry. Please try not to bleed on our floors on your way out." Hospitals treat the uninsured and indigent is because the government requires it.

That's the post I meant to refer to.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 16, 2020, 10:56:14 AM
Quote from: SGOS on November 15, 2020, 09:14:40 PM
I didn't realize it was that high.  I would have guessed 40/60.  I guess I want to give them more credit than they deserve.

"86% of Trump voters say Biden "did not legitimately win the election," while 73% (of same voters) say that we'll "never know the real outcome of this election"  ... yes, the Dems, die ist der ubermenschen (but not fascists).  That is a poll, all polls are false, so don't worry about it (unless you live next to a Comet Pizza parlor).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 16, 2020, 10:57:19 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 15, 2020, 08:13:31 PM
Just imagine the inverse.

I thought Clinton would narrowly win in 2016, but you don't see me yelling at poll workers to stop counting votes, baselessly claim that the votes for Trump were "illegal", hold a press conference at The Ritz (Cracker factory) to launch lawsuits on all the states that dared go a different way than I expected, say that the media is lying when they call the states (a "rule" I conveniently ignore when a state is called blue), or convince the VP and some members of Congress to refuse to cooperate with a handoff to the President-Elect.  Nor did I call for a laughably small protest group waving Clinton flags and quite a few guns to march on DC to prevent Trump from "stealing" the election.

In fact, any of those things would give me serious misgivings and quite a few of them would cause me withdraw all support.

In 2016, I was disappointed by the results, but I accepted them and supported a peaceful transfer of power, because that's how democracies operate.  And adults respect that.  Children, on the other hand, throw temper tantrums and traitors push for a banana republic.

She tried to suborn the Electoral College, and bribed Jill Stein to assist her.  Your memory is ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 16, 2020, 11:01:14 AM
Quote from: SGOS on November 15, 2020, 08:16:23 PM
In fairness to the Trumpets, they did not engineer the Republican cheating.  That is all done by Trump and other high level party officials, although the Trumpets don't seem to object either.
The GOP noise makers don't represent all Republicans. They are the most easily influenced and take to the streets following Trump's example.  I know many Republicans that are not blind followers, and I'm actually close friends with a some.  Yes, they have different priorities.  We are never going to agree on much of anything.  But they can be decent people.

But all that aside, the Trumpets blatantly hypocritical protests against rigged elections was so laughingly absurd that I just couldn't resist taking the shot.  Until someone comes up with actual evidence of wide scale cheating in the election, I will not assume the election belongs to Trump.

Trump, greatest hacker of all time, and made a mistake, moved votes from Trump to Biden?  Who is smoking what?  The true vote was 100% Biden, just like in E Germany in 1968 ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 16, 2020, 11:45:30 AM
News:  Trump tunes out pandemic surge as he focuses on denying election loss (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-coronavirus-response/2020/11/14/61137f4c-25cb-11eb-8599-406466ad1b8e_story.html?itid=mc_magnet-coronavirus_3)

Trumpers:  What an amazing guy.  He should be in office forever.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 16, 2020, 01:01:55 PM
Quote from: aitm on November 14, 2020, 04:46:51 PM
I keep thinking about Atwood’s “The Handmaid Tale” and wondering if we are slowly heading that way. Dam good book if you never read it.

Have you seen Children of Men?  I think we are mostly heading that way. For Atwood's version to become the reality we need a lot less people in the world, imo. Also we shold lose armed forces, industries, societies...

There is not just a huge money and industry in the 'social life' business of humans, also the social life as we know, needs normal, free women because from an archaic point of view social life relies on women to get civilised. If streets are not safe enough, if they cannot make their own money and life, there won't be women outside. That's the outside nobody wants.

Considering the resources powerful countries have right now and what's at stake in those circumstances, the first thing they will try would be killing a huge amount of men. But then a lot of men would be killed by others anyway.

Talking in crude terms. Rough caricature.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 16, 2020, 01:31:32 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 16, 2020, 11:45:30 AM
News:  Trump tunes out pandemic surge as he focuses on denying election loss (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-coronavirus-response/2020/11/14/61137f4c-25cb-11eb-8599-406466ad1b8e_story.html?itid=mc_magnet-coronavirus_3)

Trumpers:  What an amazing guy.  He should be in office forever.

Ask and you never-trumpets will receive ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 16, 2020, 01:33:48 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 16, 2020, 01:01:55 PM
Have you seen Children of Men?  I think we are mostly heading that way. For Atwood's version to become the reality we need a lot less people in the world, imo. Also we shold lose armed forces, industries, societies...

There is not just a huge money and industry in the 'social life' business of humans, also the social life as we know, needs normal, free women because from an archaic point of view social life relies on women to get civilised. If streets are not safe enough, if they cannot make their own money and life, there won't be women outside. That's the outside nobody wants.

Considering the resources powerful countries have right now and what's at stake in those circumstances, the first thing they will try would be killing a huge amount of men. But then a lot of men would be killed by others anyway.

Talking in crude terms. Rough caricature.

Exactly what Klaus Schwab is planning in the 4th Reich.  Turkey will be happy with their permanent ally.  You will all be culled and replaced by robots.  RUR was more prophesy than 1984.  Also We by Yevgeny Zamyatin ... the total loss of privacy.  You utopians will be dancing in the streets, on your puppet strings.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 16, 2020, 10:14:02 PM
I have a fear that, if President-elect Biden is actually going to be inaugurated, there may be something happen, possibly violent, that will disrupt the ceremony, in an attempt to keep Trump in power.

I'm a pessimist, though, so I'm probably wrong.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 17, 2020, 01:43:30 AM
I don't know what to expect. To my knowledge, there has never been a time when the incumbent President had a clear loss and refused to concede. And in the middle of a pandemic, no less. Trump could not be any more selfish.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 17, 2020, 10:50:09 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 16, 2020, 10:14:02 PM
I have a fear that, if President-elect Biden is actually going to be inaugurated, there may be something happen, possibly violent, that will disrupt the ceremony, in an attempt to keep Trump in power.

I'm a pessimist, though, so I'm probably wrong.

The largest US militia (illegal use of arms) ... has already declared that the Dems will not be allowed to win.  This is what you get when you try to impose LSD politics outside of California ;-(

"Due to the rising cost of ammunition, I will no longer be able to provide a warning shot.  Thank you for your understanding in these hard times." ... intruders won't be shot at my place, I don't like lead in my meat.  My Bowie knife will be better.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 17, 2020, 10:54:26 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 17, 2020, 01:43:30 AM
I don't know what to expect. To my knowledge, there has never been a time when the incumbent President had a clear loss and refused to concede. And in the middle of a pandemic, no less. Trump could not be any more selfish.

There is only a pandemic because of China.  China wants Biden for obvious self interest.  So do you?

Lincoln got elected on 35% of the votes cast, 65% voted for one of three Democrats.  It was immoral (if constitutional) for Lincoln to be inaugurated (a runoff election would have been rational and moral). But Yankees were assholes, and Rebels were assholes (even if there were no slaves).  That happened then, and there have been more than one time when the majority vote didn't get enough Electoral College voters, not just in 2016.  And then there is the shit show known as 2000, which I blame completely on Florida Democrats (crappy voting method, hanging chads) and Dem boss of Dade county made Bush votes disappear in her car trunk.  Cheating is nothing new, get used to it.  Get a constitutional amendment to end the Electoral College?  Ignore the Constitution, screw amendments (Dems in 1860)?  But the Constitution of the US was broken in 1860 and remains broken.  Burn it.  Declare Trump Emperor and Biden Anti-Emperor like competing Medieval Popes.  Then "you and him" fight it out ;-)  With the end of civilization, we are going back to the Middle Ages anyway.  In the future, only Christian monks will be able to read or write.

Why did all Dominion Systems employees suddenly delete all of their LinkedIn profiles?  Bwaha.  BTW, Canada proudly uses no electronic vote tabulation software, the Lying Dog-Faced Pony Soldiers!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 17, 2020, 12:42:07 PM
Turned traitor: Trump lackey tried to sabotage American democracy (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/17/lindsey-graham-georgia-ballot-tossing-pressure-condemned)

QuoteRaffensperger told the Washington Post Graham had indicated he should find ways to toss legal, mail-in ballots.

“It sure looked like he was wanting to go down that road,” he said.

Counties administer elections in Georgia, making Raffensperger powerless to do what Graham apparently wanted.

“It was just an implication of, ‘Look hard and see how many ballots you could throw out,’” Raffensperger told CNN.

QuoteRaffensperger has faced mounting criticism from his own party, for defending the state’s electoral process. He told the Post he had received threatening messages from “people on [his] side of the aisle”, demanding that he “better not botch” the recount.

QuoteGraham’s actions have called into question his willingness to uphold the sanctity of elections.
"Listen, are you going to be loyal to me or to that %*^& Constitution?"
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 17, 2020, 12:51:09 PM
QuoteRaffensperger has faced mounting criticism from his own party, for defending the state’s electoral process. He told the Post he had received threatening messages from “people on [his] side of the aisle”, demanding that he “better not botch” the recount.
It's getting harder and harder to find anything nice to say about Republicans.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 17, 2020, 12:58:12 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 17, 2020, 12:42:07 PM
Turned traitor: Trump lackey tried to sabotage American democracy (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/17/lindsey-graham-georgia-ballot-tossing-pressure-condemned)
"Listen, are you going to be loyal to me or to that %*^& Constitution?"

American == Traitor ... don't be shy if you are American.  Of course not just Democrats (1860) are traitors, the Radical Republicans (1860) were traitors too.  Would Americans helping Germany in 1940 (pre war?) be traitors?  Well Americans helping China in 2020 (pre war?) would be traitors also.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 17, 2020, 12:59:04 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 17, 2020, 12:51:09 PM
It's getting harder and harder to find anything nice to say about Republicans.

Per Gamergate and Feminists ... people who play Zombie Apocalypse ... they get programmed to play this in real life.  Who are the Zombies?  Republicans, Democrats, Jews ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 17, 2020, 05:56:53 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 17, 2020, 12:51:09 PM
It's getting harder and harder to find anything nice to say about Republicans.
The well thought out arguments of a liberal conservative such as William F. Buckley Jr. have been replaced by half-witted utterances such as "lock her up" and "USA,USA". I even voted for Ronald Reagan because I saw him as being the right leader for that period in time. The advent of right wing shock jocks, bullshit news networks, social media and crazed political evangelistic preachers have ruined a previously sound general opposition platform via the lame duck l'orange.

PS: History will not look back favorably on this era of spineless, science-denying, democracy-destroying Republicans if the country survives it all.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 17, 2020, 06:12:49 PM
They don't make word smiths like William F Buckley anymore ;-(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0d8mzdr4jE

He knew the score before the 60s became a flaming sack of shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6qW-ZKxZss

I did enjoy "Creation" by Gore Vidal, perhaps because it wasn't about America (Vidal's primary interest).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 18, 2020, 09:47:10 AM
Sheesh!  Trump fired the election official said that said Pennsylvania's votes were accurate after firing the Pentagon guy that said the military should not be used to break up protests.  Then he opened the Arctic Wildlife Refuge to oil drilling.  While he's been relatively quiet in his last days, he has been busy fucking things up as much as he can.  His advisors did stop him from bombing Iran, and I'm sure he's deciding who to fire over that.  Get him out of the Oval Office now.  January is not soon enough.  He's gone berserk. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 18, 2020, 10:39:51 AM
All Democrats and other people working for the DNC, not the US, should be retained and promoted, of course.  There was a problem with the "spoils" system of government appointment even by the 1870s, so they instituted a Civil Service ... which made things worse partly because there are a lot more civil servants than 150 years ago (2.6 million, how many are working for the Public, vs their party or themselves??

There was never any Dem vote rigging ... that is a lie, and the Virgin Mary died for Hunter Biden to validate that ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 18, 2020, 12:26:54 PM
Staffer confirms allegation against Graham (https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/biden-trump-us-election-news-11-17-20/h_872653bf5bd85dc1af81871fb9d446cd)

QuoteA staffer for Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensberger said Tuesday that he participated in a controversial phone call with Sen. Lindsey Graham and said he heard Graham ask if state officials could throw out ballots.

The comments from the staffer, election implementation manager Gabriel Sterling, corroborate Raffensberger’s recent claims about the phone call with Graham, who is one of President Donald Trump’s most outspoken allies.

Earlier this week, Raffensberger accused Graham of asking him to “look hard and see how many ballots you could throw out,” referring to absentee ballots that skewed heavily in favor of President-elect Joe Biden. Graham denied the claim, saying that it was “ridiculous” that he tried to pressure Raffensberger to throw out legally cast ballots.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 18, 2020, 01:36:43 PM
I allege that Graham and Trump are Republicans ... proceed to clutch pearls ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 18, 2020, 02:53:14 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 18, 2020, 09:47:10 AM
Sheesh!  Trump fired the election official said that said Pennsylvania's votes were accurate after firing the Pentagon guy that said the military should not be used to break up protests.  Then he opened the Arctic Wildlife Refuge to oil drilling.  While he's been relatively quiet in his last days, he has been busy fucking things up as much as he can.  His advisors did stop him from bombing Iran, and I'm sure he's deciding who to fire over that.  Get him out of the Oval Office now.  January is not soon enough.  He's gone berserk. 

Yeah, he seems to be implementing a scorched Earth policy to leave both domestic and foreign affairs as problematic as possible. But at least the turnover doesn't happen in March, as it used to do. Imagine if he had two whole months more to fuck shit up!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 18, 2020, 04:47:24 PM
Scorched Chinese is better, and free fentanyl?

"Georgia Recount Monitor Catches 9,626-Vote Error During Hand Recount" ... on top of other errors caught earlier.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 18, 2020, 06:39:25 PM
Why should anyone read all those headlines you post when we have no idea what the source is?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 18, 2020, 06:40:20 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 18, 2020, 06:39:25 PM
Why should anyone read all those headlines you post when we have no idea what the source is?

You beat me to it in seconds.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 18, 2020, 07:46:23 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 18, 2020, 06:39:25 PM
Why should anyone read all those headlines you post when we have no idea what the source is?
only one reason I have stopped reading him awhile ago.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 19, 2020, 04:09:38 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 18, 2020, 06:39:25 PM
Why should anyone read all those headlines you post when we have no idea what the source is?

Your source is a paper mache Karl Marx, a dead Jew who died for your sins?  Your source is CNN?  This discussion of sources has been done.  People read or watch crap, but but my crap smells so much better ;-)  I have never met Trump nor Biden, so as far as I am concerned neither of them exists.  I think you exist at least as an AI.   What we do here is monkey chatter. I leave out the more salacious or speculative bits.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 19, 2020, 04:10:32 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 18, 2020, 06:40:20 PM
You beat me to it in seconds.

Belgian equivalent of Guardian or Pravda?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 19, 2020, 04:11:34 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 18, 2020, 07:46:23 PM
only one reason I have stopped reading him awhile ago.

Read all the NYT etc you want.  I support freedom, y'all support communism.

Dems vs Rethugs are like the "Twilight" movie, with the liberals being the money sucking vampires and conservatives being beard wearing chads.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 20, 2020, 12:50:41 PM
Evil clown world ...

"Is it just me, or is it getting crazier out there?" - The Joker

"I am not Batman" - The Baruch
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 20, 2020, 01:06:54 PM
Trump said we'd get tired of winning...

After Biden won the Georgia recount, I think he might be on to something.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 20, 2020, 01:36:50 PM
Every election, the voters lose.  Slaves voting for masters is losing.

"Roses are red
Kamala is not black
Biden is NOT the president
And Hunter's on crack"

History is legendary, when people invent children's chants ... see Black Death

"phonier than a vegan at a steakhouse" ... every politician ever.  They make used car dealers look good.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 20, 2020, 04:18:40 PM
Preachers are a blast....At this point it's all just show biz, 100%.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gIAtDxyTaM
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 20, 2020, 05:07:23 PM
Evangelical organizations which have enough money to play politics have enough money to pay taxes.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 20, 2020, 06:16:22 PM
Secular prophesy ... reading the voter poll tea leaves ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 20, 2020, 06:26:00 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 20, 2020, 04:18:40 PM
Preachers are a blast....At this point it's all just show biz, 100%.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gIAtDxyTaM

Damn that's scary! If we underestimate the depth of feeling of these fundamentalist we will be shocked by the coming "wrath of God." These people will believe they are doing the righteous thing by eliminating "God's enemies." If violence is their only tool they will use it for God and country. They will never give up, because they've been convinced to believe absurdities, so they can also be convinced to commit atrocities.

We'll be lucky if they only commit sporadic random acts of violence, but if they organize we'll be in real trouble. It only takes a tiny percent of 70 million Trump supporters to create great havoc.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 20, 2020, 06:37:42 PM
Trump legal team can't even get the states right (https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/20/us/joe-biden-trump#minnesota-or-michigan-trump-lawyers-mix-up-m-states-in-an-affidavit-intended-to-prove-vote-fraud)

QuoteAn affidavit filed by President Trump’s legal team intended to prove voter fraud in Michigan apparently used data taken from counties in Minnesota, the latest in a series of embarrassing missteps that have made Mr. Trump’s uphill legal fight even steeper.
Quote“This is a catastrophic error, the kind of thing that causes a legal position to crash and burn,” wrote John H. Hinderaker, a veteran litigator who believes any incidences of fraud are not on the scale Mr. Trump’s team is claiming.

Mr. Hinderaker surmised the error was the result of mixing up the abbreviations for the two states, “MI” for “MN.”
This is like the 4th most embarrassing thing Giuliani has done this week.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 20, 2020, 07:37:38 PM
Well, Trump is a Kenyan, born in Kenya ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 20, 2020, 07:45:55 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 20, 2020, 06:37:42 PM
This is like the 4th most embarrassing thing Giuliani has done this week.
Wait till Giuliani attempts to collect his lawyer fees from Trump, LOL.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 20, 2020, 08:00:39 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 20, 2020, 07:45:55 PM
Wait till Giuliani attempts to collect his lawyer fees from Trump, LOL.

Why?  Will you expropriate the crooked income of all the lawyers?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 20, 2020, 09:53:47 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 20, 2020, 06:37:42 PM
Trump legal team can't even get the states right (https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/20/us/joe-biden-trump#minnesota-or-michigan-trump-lawyers-mix-up-m-states-in-an-affidavit-intended-to-prove-vote-fraud)
This is like the 4th most embarrassing thing Giuliani has done this week.

Rudy G - Bloody Sweat and Tears...Old Bug-eyes does it again! He'll have a career in stand-up comedy when Trump's done with him.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 20, 2020, 09:56:07 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 20, 2020, 07:45:55 PM
Wait till Giuliani attempts to collect his lawyer fees from Trump, LOL.

Yeah, Old Bug-eyes wants $20 thousand a day. Nice work if you can get it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 20, 2020, 10:53:13 PM
I hope y'all can help me answer a question:

If Biden is somehow prevented from taking the Oath of Office, will Trump remain president, or does he lose the office at noon on 1/20/21 regardless?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 21, 2020, 01:04:41 AM
After meeting with Trump, Michigan lawmakers say they see nothing to overturn Biden's win (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/michigan-gop-lawmakers-heckled-arrival-white-house-meeting-n1248396)

QuoteRepublican state lawmakers from Michigan met with President Donald Trump at the White House on Friday and said afterwards that they were not "made aware of any information that would change the outcome of the election in Michigan."

QuoteThe White House meeting came as Trump's lawyers are calling for state legislatures, including Michigan's, to name Trump electors in states won by President-elect Joe Biden.

"The entire election, frankly, in all the swing states should be overturned, and the legislatures should make sure that the electors are selected for Trump," campaign lawyer Sidney Powell told Fox Business on Thursday.
If they did, wouldn't that literally be a coup d'etat?

Just imagine for a second, a Democratic candidate (let's say Hillary) meeting with Texas reps and demanding that Texas hand her all their electoral votes even though she came in second.  Essentially, not getting enough votes to win the state but winning the state anyway (in that case, what's the point of voting?) thereby undermining the election results not only of the state but also the entire country.  Could you imagine headlines?  Could you even imagine any Texas reps signing off on a scheme like that?

There would be people in the streets calling for their heads on pikes and for good reason.  They would be rigging the election in Hillary's favor, countermanding the collective will of the people, essentially trampling on US voting rights, betraying US democracy and instituting some sort of banana republic sham election in its place.  Not just illegal and morally repugnant, but a direct attack on the very heart of the Republic.

Trump tries it and people act like it's either no big deal (because they're so used to bad behavior that it's somehow acceptable now) or they willingly aid this democracy-destroying coup attempt (what's the harm in humoring him?)

It's so unreal that we're even in this sort of position.  Anybody else would have listened to the will of the people, looked at the writing on the wall, and for the good of the Republic, would have preparations to hand over the Presidency to the President Elect.  The President was never supposed to be King, and it damn sure isn't supposed to be Dictator For Life!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 21, 2020, 10:51:59 AM
Democracy ... legal coup de etat every two/four/six years depending on office type.  Yeah, hate that democracy thing.  A perpetual Obama dictatorship is so much better.  Democracy ... per Salafists, we will get into office using democracy, then cancel all democracy in favor of Sharia, which doesn't allow democracy.  Question: Why do Democrats ally with Muslims?

There are all sorts of legal systems to secure a "finality" to a vote in the US.  The best and most usual is ... both parties cheat, but they cancel each other out or the cheating is too small to make a difference.  Then one side wins big enough it is obviously certifiable by the various boards of elections.  The Media does not declare any winners ... that would be stupid.  But they have been doing this since the 1800 election (first one with parties).

In the event that there is too much cheating, or the winner is unclear, there are legal provisions for that eventuality.  That is also part of the law.  As long as you follow the law (even while cheating ... see any pro sport) it isn't a coup de etat, it is a normal change of representative.  Even in the case of Gore vs Bush (because SCOTUS).  If you threaten boards of elections or threaten lawyers or threaten judges, that is a coup de etat on a small scale.  Democrats are good at that (see 1860).

One situation is someone burns up all the paper votes before they are counted ... what to do?  Each state has their own rules (we are not the Soviet Union).  The election isn't certified (if the board of elections is doing their job).  What if the board of elections doesn't do their job?  In America we file lawsuits (we don't Burn Loot Murder).  What if an elected official doesn't do their job?  We impeach them, including judges (like could happen to Judge Sullivan in the Flynn case).  Judge Sullivan is loyal to Obama, not to the Constitution.  We also have appeals courts and supreme courts at state and national levels ... and state level can lead to SCOTUS, which has the final say (until Congress decides otherwise).

Since Congress decides over SCOTUS in cases of legitimate legislation (SCOTUS decides on abusive law or abusive Executive) that is why the ultimate break the glass is "state delegation vote" in Congress (not by individual reps).  The states stand in the way of tyranny from Washington DC.  This failed in 1860, because the Democrats (N & S) broke the system.  Had they stayed in Union, it could be resolved by SCOTUS, which recognized that slavery was legal.  And we would have burned all the "damn Yankees".
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 21, 2020, 11:39:20 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 20, 2020, 10:53:13 PM
I hope y'all can help me answer a question:

If Biden is somehow prevented from taking the Oath of Office, will Trump remain president, or does he lose the office at noon on 1/20/21 regardless?
According to the video of Von Jones (posted by Hydra somewhere), the matter is referred to Congress, and all votes are thrown out.  The President is then appointed by Congress.  It does not have to be one of the original candidates.  It can be anyone they choose as if no vote had taken place.

Trump's assumption is that if he succeeds in preventing the election to be certified, he would be appointed by congress because he got the second most votes or possibly because his supporters would take to the streets in some sort of riotous protest, and Congress would appoint him to prevent further chaos.  But it's also an entirely new ball game and Congress could choose a moderate Republican which may placate many Democrats.  I think all Trump has to do is convince one state not to certify its vote count and the whole vote is nullified.  He's banking on Congress appointing him.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 21, 2020, 01:11:11 PM
Yes, but if the inauguration is disrupted, will Trump cease being president at noon even if Biden and Harris are prevented from taking the oath of office? Would the speaker of the House become acting president?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 21, 2020, 02:10:50 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 21, 2020, 02:09:20 PM
I'm not sure, but it doesn't go to the speaker of the house as in the case of a dead president and vice president.  I remember hearing that the appointment is supposed to happen before the inauguration, specifically so that the country is NEVER without a president.  I'm not sure why this is important, and knowing how long it takes Congress to do anything, it doesn't seem like something that could happen that fast.  None of this answers your question, of course.  What happens if Trump just keeps dicking around with the states, the courts, and Supreme Court, and the critical states still fail to certify the ballot count?  I guess the founding fathers didn't foresee such a thing.  Democracy is fragile.  It must be cared for, by both the people and the administrators.  Many things can cause the system fail.  Which is why it's fragile.  And then of course there's Trump, the leader of the lunatic fringe, and I don't think those people know what a democracy is, and wouldn't want one if they did know.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 21, 2020, 03:36:11 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 21, 2020, 11:39:20 AM
According to the video of Von Jones (posted by Hydra somewhere), the matter is referred to Congress, and all votes are thrown out.  The President is then appointed by Congress.  It does not have to be one of the original candidates.  It can be anyone they choose as if no vote had taken place.

Trump's assumption is that if he succeeds in preventing the election to be certified, he would be appointed by congress because he got the second most votes or possibly because his supporters would take to the streets in some sort of riotous protest, and Congress would appoint him to prevent further chaos.  But it's also an entirely new ball game and Congress could choose a moderate Republican which may placate many Democrats.  I think all Trump has to do is convince one state not to certify its vote count and the whole vote is nullified.  He's banking on Congress appointing him.

That isn't the only outcome (see 2000) but it is the final straw.  Got a match? ;-(  The usual Senate isn't the decider, neither is the House, it is a special convocation (at Jeff Epstein's house, whoopee).  Technically, I agree that status quo is the norm.  The norm established by Reagan or by Obama is the question? ;-)  I consider the Bush & Clinton influence to be totally illegitimate.  Was Obama too close to Hillary however?  Disclosure .. I voted for Reagan twice and Obama twice .. so ...

If Pelosi is temporary President, she should rescind all US laws going back to 1788 ;-)  Since we now know that all people are of African descent, we can enslave everyone!!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 21, 2020, 06:17:51 PM

I was just thinking how..... obviously George Soros in 2030 had his head severed and cryogenically frozen, so that in the year 3022 when time travel was finally invented, he could travel back in time, and save Jeffrey Epstein from being murdered in jail, and they could collude with the DNC chair to prevent the assassination of JFK and then steal all the elections for the Democrats in the 1960s through the 2060s.  The 9/11 inside-job was just a democratic attempt at distracting the public from the real truth of Soros' grand scheme.
....when this vid showed up in my feed and changed my mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ9__8UJSc4&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 21, 2020, 11:38:16 PM
Clearly you know too much ... so I would head to that private Caribbean island about now ;-)  No wonder 2020 is so messed up ... time travel by idiots.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 21, 2020, 11:39:24 PM
Sore losers try to obstruct vote counting, harrass election officials (https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-wisconsin-elections-dcb7da95578fc7289122c6d372575a9b)

QuoteHe said many Trump observers were breaking rules by constantly interrupting vote counters with questions and comments.

“That’s unacceptable,” he said. He said some of the Trump observers “clearly don’t know what they are doing.”

QuoteTim Posnanski, a county election commissioner, told his fellow commissioners there appeared to be two Trump representatives at some tables where tabulators were counting ballots, violating rules that call for one observer from each campaign per table.

QuoteAt one recount table, a Trump observer objected to every ballot that tabulators pulled from a bag simply because they were folded, election officials told the panel.

QuotePosnanski said some Trump representatives seemed to be posing as independents.
Hmm...sounds strangely familiar...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 21, 2020, 11:46:47 PM
Sore Dem losers invent KKK.  Later they weaponize BLM.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 22, 2020, 03:14:35 AM
Last night, just woke up, I had a Trump dream. First time in my life. Hella weird.

He got his lawsuits revoked and failed to turn the electoral votes to his favor. In my dream he made a weird concession speech. Talking about how disheartened he was because he truly had given it his best and you can't blame a man for doing his best. As his defense trailed off and became more and more childlike, it cut to montage of his years as president. Pence was there too. And by the end he was skipping through a meadow saying he was glad to leave and promising to leave the biggest mess to punish Biden and the voters, like he had some deranged meltdown.

Maybe I ought to cut back on the news, for a while.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 22, 2020, 07:35:31 AM
QuoteIn late October we asked readers to make their election predictions and published a sampling of the more than 500 responses. Many readers predicted a Joe Biden landslide, others thought that President Trump would win the Electoral College and some rightly guessed that the results would be too close to call on Election Day.

We promised to highlight the letter that was most prescient. Raj Patel, a sophomore at John P. Stevens High School in Edison, N.J., correctly predicted on Oct. 26 that the winner would not be known on Election Day but instead several days later (he predicted a week; it was actually four days later).

While his popular vote margin for Joe Biden was overly generous and a few states voted differently than he predicted, he was the only letter writer who nailed the Electoral College count, 306 to 232 â€" assuming no changes because of recounts, lawsuits or faithless electors.

Raj told The Times on Wednesday that he wrote the letter for his U.S. history class after studying on his own how the candidates were faring in each state. He stayed up till 2 a.m. the night of the election, but had to wait a few days to learn how his prediction had put the pollsters to shame. He called it “a great honor” to be named the winner.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 22, 2020, 08:03:14 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 22, 2020, 03:14:35 AM
Last night, just woke up, I had a Trump dream. First time in my life. Hella weird.
Maybe I ought to cut back on the news, for a while.
It would probably help.  I got rid of TV for much the same reasons.  Last month, I took advantage of a New York Times introductory offer, and it kind of reminds me of my TV days, because I'm getting inundated, sometimes by the same story 5 times.  It's somewhat like a toned down 24 hour news channel.  But I do have the option to filter some of the stuff I'm sent.  I haven't done that yet.

But it's still far better than TV, which fails at in depth reporting compared to the Times, which often answers my related questions.  Constant repetition from Wolf Blitzer is not "in depth."  It's more like mental domination.  And with the paper, I can choose what I want to focus on.  Many people leave the TV on when they aren't watching, and the house becomes dominated by the news channel.  I used to leave the TV on at times too, like I thought something might happen.  Now when something does actually happen, the Times sends a "Breaking News Item" in my email, and I know about it when it happens, because my email is my home page.  And if something happens, I really only need to know that once.

One day years ago, I realized that I was often running to the TV to turn the God damned thing off, and I started wondering why I was paying $100/month for something that provided me with more anxiety than entertainment.  Being a news junkie is probably as self destructive as being... well, a "junkie," and when you try to break your addiction, you start saying, "Yeah but this," and "Yeah but that."  It's hard to end an addition.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 22, 2020, 08:34:50 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 22, 2020, 03:14:35 AM
Last night, just woke up, I had a Trump dream. First time in my life. Hella weird.

He got his lawsuits revoked and failed to turn the electoral votes to his favor. In my dream he made a weird concession speech. Talking about how disheartened he was because he truly had given it his best and you can't blame a man for doing his best. As his defense trailed off and became more and more childlike, it cut to montage of his years as president. Pence was there too. And by the end he was skipping through a meadow saying he was glad to leave and promising to leave the biggest mess to punish Biden and the voters, like he had some deranged meltdown.

Maybe I ought to cut back on the news, for a while.

Strawberries before bedtime ;-)

I subscribed to the WSJ for a year in the mid-80s, but then it went under new management, stopped being about business and became an RNC rag.  Enjoy your NYT, it may be the last thing made in NYC before they turn the lights out.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 23, 2020, 02:35:01 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 21, 2020, 01:11:11 PM
Yes, but if the inauguration is disrupted, will Trump cease being president at noon even if Biden and Harris are prevented from taking the oath of office? Would the speaker of the House become acting president?
If the Electoral College has voted, and absent any last-minute shenanigans in the House and Senate when they officially accept the result in January, there isn't a single thing Donnieboy other than whine and cry and bitch and moan.  He will cease to be President at noon, and there's not one thing he can do to stop it.  Biden will become president at noon with or without the oath; the oath is to be taken before exercising Presidential power, not to make the oath-taker the president.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 23, 2020, 04:32:44 AM
Phew. I wasn't paying attention after the election results. The last several pages were colourful. That fake laughing man in the holy koolaid video is one of the creepist things I have seen. :eek:
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 23, 2020, 07:38:27 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 23, 2020, 04:32:44 AM
Phew. I wasn't paying attention after the election results.
The last 3 weeks have been more nerve-racking than election day itself.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 23, 2020, 08:47:50 AM
It seems to me that trump will be bring suit after suit in all the swing states until Dec 14th, when the electoral college makes it 'official' tally known.  After that, he will pursue other angles--and what all of those will be is anybody's guess.  It won't be pretty.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 23, 2020, 09:49:02 AM
Election day was the day we got to see actual voter results and the results of the electoral college, rather than mostly useless polling data, and that was bad enough.  What we are going through right now is a test of the strength of an ideology we call democracy, and this is scarier than another 4 years of Trump.  The fact that this challenge comes from the deranged mind of a lunatic who wants to be a dictator makes it all the more exhausting.  And while the courts are kept busy hearing the arguments, even if they are thoughtfully rejecting them, it is not comforting when we realize how close this brings us to the end of a 250 year run as a successful, if not somewhat dysfunctional, system of governance.

The strength of our system is what makes our country, not the mind of any individual president no matter whether he is brilliant, delusional, fair, or dishonest.  Countries that abdicate that kind of power to one person become corrupt and self serving to that person his family and his cronies.

Right now the news is filled with predictions that Trump cannot win this power grab, but it also notes in the "find print" and somewhat reluctantly that it could happen.  But that is not news.  Its opinion.  Even if Trump does not win, as of now the system is changed and all future elections will be held hostage by the threat of trivial lawsuits that can serve to weaken the country and pave the way for pathological dictators who would seek to end democracy.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 23, 2020, 10:02:47 AM
I should have known. It's depressing. Hang in there. Oooff.

So dollar hasn't even started yet around here I guess.  :sad2:
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 23, 2020, 10:48:23 AM
Quote from: SGOS on November 23, 2020, 07:38:27 AM
The last 3 weeks have been more nerve-racking than election day itself.

Party hardy.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 23, 2020, 12:09:15 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 23, 2020, 04:32:44 AMPhew. I wasn't paying attention after the election results.
That should be normal.  It's normal when Americans look at the elections of countries like Canada and the UK and Germany.  We hear the news, accept it, and move on with our lives.

This ongoing circus and borderline coup attempt is irregular and deeply disturbing and (if even remotely successful) sets a hell of a precedent.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 23, 2020, 12:15:28 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 23, 2020, 12:09:15 PM
That should be normal.  It's normal when Americans look at the elections of countries like Canada and the UK and Germany.  We hear the news, accept it, and move on with our lives.

This ongoing circus and borderline coup attempt is irregular and deeply disturbing and (if even remotely successful) sets a hell of a precedent.

News in all countries are psyops of their respective Deep States.  But I support the CIA etc, hence elections are a waste of time.

"MI5 operates a partially secret policy that allows agents to participate in serious crimes including torture and killing, a security tribunal has heard." ... this is very old policy dating back 120 years or more.  The US is the bitch of Britain all along.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 23, 2020, 12:24:56 PM

From IRS.gov...
In 1954, Congress approved an amendment by Sen. Lyndon Johnson to prohibit 501(c)(3) organizations, which includes charities and churches, from engaging in any political campaign activity. To the extent Congress has revisited the ban over the years, it has in fact strengthened the ban. The most recent change came in 1987 when Congress amended the language to clarify that the prohibition also applies to statements opposing candidates.

Currently, the law prohibits political campaign activity by charities and churches by defining a 501(c)(3) organization as one "which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office."


They need to get on these preachers for taxes, especially since they video tape the evidence themselves...I am gonna email these these links to the IRS..
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 23, 2020, 12:30:29 PM
That is why "political preaching" has been questioned (aka suggesting to parishioners who to vote for), as well as having polling places in churches.  Of course this wouldn't apply to mosques or synagogues ;-))

As far as taxes go, I would tax everyone at 100%.  Social cohesion requires a dictatorship.  Just ask Zimbabwe.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 23, 2020, 03:46:34 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 23, 2020, 08:47:50 AM
It seems to me that trump will be bring suit after suit in all the swing states until Dec 14th, when the electoral college makes it 'official' tally known.  After that, he will pursue other angles--and what all of those will be is anybody's guess.  It won't be pretty.

I'm not so worried about what Trump is doing or will do, I'm very afraid of what his millions of cult members will do. I'm afraid they may attack the inauguration ceremony, in force, to kill as many of the Democratic leadership as they can, especially Biden, Harris, Pelosi and Schumer.

I don't know what form the attack might take, but I can think of several scenarios, and if I can, so can they.

They will not allow a Biden administration to govern the country. Did you see all those evangelical Christians? That's not even the tip of the iceberg.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 23, 2020, 06:27:47 PM
President Elect chooses Antony Blinken as Secretary of State (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/22/us/politics/biden-antony-blinken-secretary-of-state.html)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blinken

Basically, he supports an internationalist/multinational approach.  His record isn't spotless - supported the Iraq War in 2003 - but it's a hell of an upgrade over Pompeo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pompeo#Energy_and_environment).  Blinken has experience and he's not a relative of the President, so that's a fairly new experience for us.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 23, 2020, 07:06:28 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 23, 2020, 06:27:47 PM
Blinken has experience and he's not a relative of the President, so that's a fairly new experience for us.
Ha!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 23, 2020, 08:23:32 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 23, 2020, 03:46:34 PM
I'm not so worried about what Trump is doing or will do, I'm very afraid of what his millions of cult members will do. I'm afraid they may attack the inauguration ceremony, in force, to kill as many of the Democratic leadership as they can, especially Biden, Harris, Pelosi and Schumer.

I don't know what form the attack might take, but I can think of several scenarios, and if I can, so can they.

They will not allow a Biden administration to govern the country. Did you see all those evangelical Christians? That's not even the tip of the iceberg.

Not afraid of China at all, since you would enjoy working for free at Foxcon?  Think any new CCP virus weapon will pass you by?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 23, 2020, 10:52:02 PM
I don't work, it's a four-letter word...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on November 24, 2020, 01:35:45 AM
Hopefully this is truth bound. I read Trump tweeted he has finally initiated the transfer of power to Biden.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 24, 2020, 02:19:08 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 24, 2020, 01:35:45 AM
Hopefully this is truth bound. I read Trump tweeted he has finally initiated the transfer of power to Biden.
The General Services Administration has formally started the transition process.  I dunno if they got the go ahead from Trump ahead of time or if they did it independently and Trump just tried to play it down as "preliminary work".

Either way, this is a major step forward into formally transferring power and a huge blow to any stalling effort.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 24, 2020, 04:49:39 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 24, 2020, 02:19:08 AM
The General Services Administration has formally started the transition process.  I dunno if they got the go ahead from Trump ahead of time or if they did it independently and Trump just tried to play it down as "preliminary work".

Either way, this is a major step forward into formally transferring power and a huge blow to any stalling effort.
The head of the GSA said she made the decision on her own in response to Trump saying he ordered her to go ahead.  But then if a hurricane changed it's path and missed South Carolina, Trump would say he ordered it.  Either way as you point out, it is a major step, and it's not the best outcome for Trump.  The train is leaving the station if a bit late.  But I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the last four years.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 24, 2020, 08:49:50 AM
I think I finally have a handle on Trump's popularity. It is simple. He is an unapologetic selfish asshole. And that appeals to 50% of Americans who are also selfish assholes. The pundits and sociologists can write books till the cows come home. It is what it is.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 24, 2020, 09:07:34 AM
Quote from: Cassia on November 24, 2020, 08:49:50 AM
I think I finally have a handle on Trump's popularity. It is simple. He is an unapologetic selfish asshole. And that appeals to 50% of Americans who are also selfish assholes.
How long did it take you to figure that out?   :biggrin:
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 24, 2020, 09:47:38 AM
The other day, I thought to myself, "There maybe something good in Trump challenging the voting system.  True or not, the idea that fraud exists in the system is nothing new.  I've always hoped the system was fair and accurate, but never really knew for sure."  It might be good to launch an intensive investigation into the system so that many of us could do more than just hope it's fair.  But Trump never launched an investigation into the system, although he's been hinting at election fraud even before being elected in 2016.  He just issued baseless claims without any knowledge or evidence to support them.  That's not an investigation.

And even if we did an investigation and found rampant fraud, would that help?  We all know about gerrymandering, voter suppression, and intimidating, and we acknowledged its existence for years, but congress never does anything about it.  The system simply lends itself to political tampering.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 24, 2020, 10:11:00 AM
Quote from: SGOS on November 24, 2020, 09:07:34 AM
How long did it take you to figure that out?   :biggrin:
It was always one possibility...I just didn't want it to be true. Sadly it is.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 24, 2020, 10:59:19 AM
Quote from: Cassia on November 24, 2020, 08:49:50 AM
I think I finally have a handle on Trump's popularity. It is simple. He is an unapologetic selfish asshole. And that appeals to 50% of Americans who are also selfish assholes. The pundits and sociologists can write books till the cows come home. It is what it is.
Yeah, I'm afraid you are correct.  I understand that on the Limburger show, a caller told him that she would give her life for trump.  I am still trying to figure out what does trump do that commands that type of blind loyalty.  Trump has demonstrated that much more of this society is simply filled with selfish, twisted believers, who blindly go along.  Trump fucks over his 'base' all the time, yet they fawn over him like he is a messiah of some type.  I will probably never fully understand the dynamics of all that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 24, 2020, 11:26:59 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 23, 2020, 06:27:47 PM
His record isn't spotless - supported the Iraq War in 2003 - but it's a hell of an upgrade over Pompeo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pompeo#Energy_and_environment).
So did a lot of other people, based on the fake intelligence reports they were fed.  I don't know whether he's ever recanted his support; that is what I would find more telling.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on November 24, 2020, 11:31:49 AM
Quote from: SGOS on November 24, 2020, 04:49:39 AM
The head of the GSA said she made the decision on her own in response to Trump saying he ordered her to go ahead.  But then if a hurricane changed it's path and missed South Carolina, Trump would say he ordered it.  Either way as you point out, it is a major step, and it's not the best outcome for Trump.  The train is leaving the station if a bit late.  But I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the last four years.
I suspect she was getting a lot of pushback from the permanent staff, and probably some Congressional Republicans too.  Also, I suspect she didn't like the type of publicity she was getting for being "the bottleneck", even if she was following orders from the White House.  I mean, before last week, who even heard of her outside of DC, and now she's the one subverting the will of the nation.  Not what you want on your resume as you get ready to look for a new job.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 24, 2020, 11:56:16 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 24, 2020, 01:35:45 AM
Hopefully this is truth bound. I read Trump tweeted he has finally initiated the transfer of power to Biden.

11 D chess, like with Obama ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 24, 2020, 11:57:35 AM
Quote from: Cassia on November 24, 2020, 08:49:50 AM
I think I finally have a handle on Trump's popularity. It is simple. He is an unapologetic selfish asshole. And that appeals to 50% of Americans who are also selfish assholes. The pundits and sociologists can write books till the cows come home. It is what it is.

Unapologetic selfish assholes ... yes!  And the other half of the country is even more eeevil ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 24, 2020, 11:58:58 AM
Quote from: trdsf on November 24, 2020, 11:26:59 AM
So did a lot of other people, based on the fake intelligence reports they were fed.  I don't know whether he's ever recanted his support; that is what I would find more telling.

Bipartisan coup grifting and war grifting.  Follow the money, not the memes.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 24, 2020, 12:01:42 PM
Quote from: trdsf on November 24, 2020, 11:31:49 AM
I suspect she was getting a lot of pushback from the permanent staff, and probably some Congressional Republicans too.  Also, I suspect she didn't like the type of publicity she was getting for being "the bottleneck", even if she was following orders from the White House.  I mean, before last week, who even heard of her outside of DC, and now she's the one subverting the will of the nation.  Not what you want on your resume as you get ready to look for a new job.

Democrats make it easy.  Just threaten to rape and murder her family (like was done against Tucker Carlson).  Tucker is now a BLM supporter ;-)  Trumpsters want to burn down Fox News with him in it.

"Barack Obama is the president elect.  He never left Washington, and even declared a shadow government in 2016" .. everyone forgets this fact.  When Biden is President, and is removed for senility ... Harris will be there to take his place, with Barak and Hillary standing right behind her (Vince Foster, Seth Rich).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 25, 2020, 06:26:10 PM
Quote
“It is my Great Honor to announce that General Michael T. Flynn has been granted a Full Pardon,” Mr. Trump wrote on Twitter.

Mr. Flynn, the former national security adviser, was the only White House official to be convicted as part of the Trump-Russia investigation that was completed by the special counsel, Robert Mueller.
Trumps version of draining the swamp.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 25, 2020, 06:35:14 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 25, 2020, 06:26:10 PM
Trumps version of draining the swamp.
Flynn, about an hour and a half ahead of Trump's announcement, tweeted a Bible verse alluding to a holy rescue.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 25, 2020, 07:17:22 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 25, 2020, 06:35:14 PM
Flynn, about an hour and a half ahead of Trump's announcement, tweeted a Bible verse alluding to a holy rescue.

An actual war hero, he didn't want a pardon, he wanted the court to exonerate.  Obama had him entrapped and locked up because he would spill the beans on all the criminal and treasonous activity of the Obama years (sad because I hoped Obama would do us some good, but there were a lot of bad people under Obama, and Biden will bring them back).  While under indictment he was prevented from testimony, now he can not only gove testimony but go for revenge on Obama and Judge Sullivan and Comey.

Obama knew this in Jan 2017 and went after Flynn anyway, Obama used a criminal FBI to try to make what Flynn did illegal (legal under previous transitions) and even FBI said wasn't illegal after examination ... and by threatening the man's son and ruining him financially, cause him to give conflicting testimony (which was irrelevant since his original actions were legal per current AJ).  Flynn didn't even have a lawyer present (how naive of him).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 25, 2020, 08:01:02 PM
Quote from: trdsf on November 24, 2020, 11:26:59 AMSo did a lot of other people, based on the fake intelligence reports they were fed.  I don't know whether he's ever recanted his support; that is what I would find more telling.
That's true, though there were some indicators that things weren't as they appeared at the time that even laymen like me picked up on, so people with expertise really should've known better.

Unfortunately, it wasn't so much about the evidence (if it was, we would have never put boots on the ground there, because it was shaky af).  It was more about the country's willingness to go to war in general and our spoiling for war in the aftermath of 9/11 in particular.  Imho, falling for that was a massive error in judgment and a significant moral failing, not merely a case of being duped.  That's not the kind of thing you get 3 strikes for.

Hopefully, he's learned from that and is much less venerable to neocon manipulation than he was, because they're still very much out there and very nearly caused yet another war - this time with Iran - and they won't all be out of a job when Trump leaves office.  Blinkin appears committed to a diplomatic solution there, which is reassuring.  I fervently hope he stays that way.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 25, 2020, 08:32:18 PM
And if I seem super-duper harsh about this, bear in mind that I saw the Presidential Admin make bold fearmongering statements like that infamous mushroom cloud one (implying that we'd get nuked if we don't start the war pronto) and watch half the country fall in line.  Torture too, not long after.  Watching Americans quickly and easily bend to disinformation campaigns and support extremely suspect policies without giving it much thought is what gave us Trump. 

It's not enough to simply remove Trump.  We need to remove what led us to Trump.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on November 25, 2020, 09:20:21 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 25, 2020, 08:32:18 PM
And if I seem super-duper harsh about this, bear in mind that I saw the Presidential Admin make bold fearmongering statements like that infamous mushroom cloud one (implying that we'd get nuked if we don't start the war pronto) and watch half the country fall in line.  Torture too, not long after.  Watching Americans quickly and easily bend to disinformation campaigns and support extremely suspect policies without giving it much thought is what gave us Trump. 

It's not enough to simply remove Trump.  We need to remove what led us to Trump.
As far as I'm concerned, Bush is a war criminal and belongs behind bars.  And a bunch of his administration should be there (especially cheney!) as well.  It seems to me that Regan started us on this road--
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 25, 2020, 09:34:54 PM
Biden weaseled his way around supporting the invasion of Iraq, by saying all he did was authorize Bush to use force.  Much later, when called upon to defend his actions, he said that he opposed the war the day we invaded because he didn't think Bush would do it without better evidence of actual threat.  I don't know how many people see that as honesty or even legitimate if not honest.  To me it sounds politically legitimate, but still a moral failure.  But granted for all of Biden's short comings, he is not even close to Trump in shortcomings and lack of moral judgement, not even in the same ball park at all.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 26, 2020, 02:34:58 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 25, 2020, 08:32:18 PM
And if I seem super-duper harsh about this, bear in mind that I saw the Presidential Admin make bold fearmongering statements like that infamous mushroom cloud one (implying that we'd get nuked if we don't start the war pronto) and watch half the country fall in line.  Torture too, not long after.  Watching Americans quickly and easily bend to disinformation campaigns and support extremely suspect policies without giving it much thought is what gave us Trump. 

It's not enough to simply remove Trump.  We need to remove what led us to Trump.

George Washington led us to Trump.  Every Prez is a war Prez.  People seem to be still naive about the Vietnam War.  The US is evil, no matter the party.  And better yet, evil is good.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 26, 2020, 02:38:19 AM
Quote from: SGOS on November 25, 2020, 09:34:54 PM
Biden weaseled his way around supporting the invasion of Iraq, by saying all he did was authorize Bush to use force.  Much later, when called upon to defend his actions, he said that he opposed the war the day we invaded because he didn't think Bush would do it without better evidence of actual threat.  I don't know how many people see that as honesty or even legitimate if not honest.  To me it sounds politically legitimate, but still a moral failure.  But granted for all of Biden's short comings, he is not even close to Trump in shortcomings and lack of moral judgement, not even in the same ball park at all.

That is reasonable.  I didn't trust the neocons but I assumed classified info and nat sec limitations on wild actions.  I didn't know then that Gen Colin Powell was part of the My Lai coverup.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 26, 2020, 04:36:05 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 25, 2020, 08:32:18 PM

It's not enough to simply remove Trump.  We need to remove what led us to Trump.
What we need to do and what we will do are seldom the same thing.

We did not punish Reagan for Iran/Contra, we did not punish Bush/Cheney for lying us into two wars, and we won't punish Trump for his crimes, either. I wonder who will be the next Republican president we won't punish?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 26, 2020, 05:43:27 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 26, 2020, 04:36:05 PM
What we need to do and what we will do are seldom the same thing.

We did not punish Reagan for Iran/Contra, we did not punish Bush/Cheney for lying us into two wars, and we won't punish Trump for his crimes, either. I wonder who will be the next Republican president we won't punish?

We didn't punish LBJ.  Carter was OK by me, though I voted for Ford.  Clintons haven't been punished at all.  I am divided on Obama's legacy.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: the_antithesis on November 26, 2020, 05:47:37 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 24, 2020, 08:49:50 AM
I think I finally have a handle on Trump's popularity. It is simple. He is an unapologetic selfish asshole. And that appeals to 50% of Americans who are also selfish assholes. The pundits and sociologists can write books till the cows come home. It is what it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTfhYyTuT44

What this video has shown me is that some who support Trump wanted a strong man to put everything back in it's place. Problem is, Trump is provably a pussy. He's a bully and like all bullies, he talks tough but when someone calls him on it, he folds like an origami blow up doll.

(go to 49:40 for a clip where a man, who has kidnapped his own children because of his messy divorce and in a high-speed chase with the police, he literally prays to Donald Trump for a miracle.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 26, 2020, 06:07:22 PM
Anyone who runs for office is a moron.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 26, 2020, 06:53:01 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/8jdqppp0xl161.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=0177aac1b9b8272ce3e11ae85aedce7a2d9d5eb7)

Who knows, they might flip the great state of Georiga.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 27, 2020, 09:22:04 AM
Who knows, Obama may come back as dictator .. Wakanda!

Dominion Executive: “Trump is not going to win. I made f***ing sure of that.”

There is no evidence that any Dem has ever done anything illegal or wrong ... bwahah.

"Those formatting issues/typos are straight up because of word file conversion between Mac and pc." ... they didn't uses spellcheck after file conversion ... raciist

"TWITTER BANS "KRAKEN" LAWSUIT THAT DEMANDS TRUMP BE DECLARED WINNER, TRUMP SAYS ITS FAR FROM OVER" .. then reverses itself.  Don't be a Twit ;-)  17 days to Civil War .. even if Trump accepts negative Electoral College judgement, 70 million other Americans will never reconcile with the people who brought us Jefferson Davis.  If Never-Bidens prevail, then should all CFR members go to Guantanamo?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 28, 2020, 12:21:57 AM
Trump declares Twitter national security threat after #DiaperDon trends following meltdown at miniature table (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/trump-twitter-diaperdon-election-press-conference-b1762682.html)

Not a sentence I thought I'd ever read, but here we are.  Makes me wonder what nefarious stuff is going on that's so heinous that he needs something like this to distract the media so they pay attention to that ridiculousness instead of what he's actually doing.  Oh right, the Flynn thing.  The mafia Don springs his capo from prison story.  Anything else I'm missing?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 28, 2020, 04:06:32 AM
I've read that link titleˆ 3-4 times.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 28, 2020, 07:59:58 AM
#DiaperDon clearly doesn't understand how Twitter works... If a hashtag is trending, it means a lot of people are using it. It requires no direct input from Twitter's staff to decide what's trending. That's all on the users. You'd think the guy who abuses Twitter the most, constantly spreading rumors and conspiracy theories, would understand that much. If we get rid of Twitter, where will #DiaperDon go to whine about how everybody is being so mean to him?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 28, 2020, 08:39:00 AM
Trump is definitely not mentally or emotionally equipped to be president.  He would make a classic South American dictator, although not a very good one.  He's the kind that would eventually be removed from office by the military, and then taken out back and shot.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 28, 2020, 11:42:25 AM
Anyone who wants to be Pope or President, is disqualified.

Twitter is shit.  The people who post there .. no surprise, are turds.  If you think Twitter is a reasonable social media, then you are part of the problem, not a part of the solution.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: the_antithesis on November 28, 2020, 12:52:55 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 28, 2020, 12:21:57 AM
Trump declares Twitter national security threat after #DiaperDon trends following meltdown at miniature table (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/trump-twitter-diaperdon-election-press-conference-b1762682.html)

Amber Heard: Petition to fire actor from Aquaman 2 receives more than 1.5 million signatures (https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/amber-heard-aquaman-petition-johnny-depp-b1762825.html)

WTF? Yeah, she was bad, but so was the rest of that movie. Apparently it's Johnny Depp supporters doing that. The only thing more puzzling to me than Trump supporters are Johnny Depp supporters.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 28, 2020, 01:26:01 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 28, 2020, 07:59:58 AM#DiaperDon clearly doesn't understand how Twitter works... If a hashtag is trending, it means a lot of people are using it. It requires no direct input from Twitter's staff to decide what's trending. That's all on the users. You'd think the guy who abuses Twitter the most, constantly spreading rumors and conspiracy theories, would understand that much. If we get rid of Twitter, where will #DiaperDon go to whine about how everybody is being so mean to him?
He knows.  He's been spoiling to get rid of Section 230, which basically gives platforms like Twitter legal immunity for what their users post.  He wants to SLAPP Twitter to get rid of mean comments directed to him, which is really odd for a guy who's basically a walking mean comment factory.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 28, 2020, 01:28:33 PM
Quote from: the_antithesis on November 28, 2020, 12:52:55 PM
Amber Heard: Petition to fire actor from Aquaman 2 receives more than 1.5 million signatures (https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/amber-heard-aquaman-petition-johnny-depp-b1762825.html)

WTF? Yeah, she was bad, but so was the rest of that movie. Apparently it's Johnny Depp supporters doing that. The only thing more puzzling to me than Trump supporters are Johnny Depp supporters.
I don't know enough to really weigh in, but I feel like some things happened outside of the movies that caused people to form strong opinions about those two actors.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on November 28, 2020, 03:36:55 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 28, 2020, 01:28:33 PM
I don't know enough to really weigh in, but I feel like some things happened outside of the movies that caused people to form strong opinions about those two actors.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/depp-libel-trial-friday-1.5644717 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/depp-libel-trial-friday-1.5644717)

Long story short; they were a REALLY fucking dysfunctional relationship and Depp does have to share some of the blame. That said...

She put out cigarettes on him, shit in his bed, assaulted him several times (and was recorded admitting to it), forced him to get surgery after ripping off part of his finger with a vodka bottle she threw, and was accused by a previous partner of being a domestic abuser. All the while she claimed to be the one being abused and destroyed his career over it.

I wouldn't call it "Johnny Depp supporters" calling for her to lose her job, I would just call them decent people who don't support domestic abusers.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 28, 2020, 03:46:26 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 28, 2020, 01:28:33 PM
I don't know enough to really weigh in, but I feel like some things happened outside of the movies that caused people to form strong opinions about those two actors.

For Americans, the world of politics, pro sports and Hollywood merge together ;-(

Where are the Feminists now, when clearly some women are terrible?

16 Michigan cities had voting turnout 100% or greater … North Muskegon had a turnout of 782% … nothing to see here ;-)  Nothing about the US for 232 years has had any legitimacy at all ;-))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 29, 2020, 08:44:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI--yhl9rPc

Why should any Democrats not be put in Guantanamo and FEMA camps?  Hmmm?

“I’ll take dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery” -Benjamin Franklin

All appearances pre-post election by Biden are Trump propaganda.  An actor was payed to pretend to be Biden, because Biden would never admit On Camera that he suborned Ukraine in a way he falsely accused Trump of doing ... (cough)

"Joe Biden only managed to get around 1000 people to watch his Thanksgiving address." ... and those were the turkeys (gobble).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 29, 2020, 12:48:30 PM
Trump was convinced he was going to win with a repeat of 2016, started 'shouting at everyone' when Fox News called Arizona for Biden (https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-was-convinced-election-night-would-repeat-of-2016-report-2020-11)

Well, that lays the "5D chess" nonsense to rest, not that it was ever convincing.  Also, it's bizarre how often the caricature of Trump matches up with the real thing.  It's supposed to be an exaggeration of real faults, not a mirror image.

QuoteTrump decided to claim the election was stolen from him by fraud on election night.
There you have it.  Baseless.  He didn't have evidence of fraud and then came to the conclusion that there was fraud.  He saw that he was losing at decided to cry fraud like the sore loser he is and afterwards, tried his hardest (which wasn't much) to gin up some "evidence" of it and of course failed spectacularly.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 29, 2020, 03:14:50 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 29, 2020, 12:48:30 PM
Trump was convinced he was going to win with a repeat of 2016, started 'shouting at everyone' when Fox News called Arizona for Biden (https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-was-convinced-election-night-would-repeat-of-2016-report-2020-11)

Well, that lays the "5D chess" nonsense to rest, not that it was ever convincing.  Also, it's bizarre how often the caricature of Trump matches up with the real thing.  It's supposed to be an exaggeration of real faults, not a mirror image.
There you have it.  Baseless.  He didn't have evidence of fraud and then came to the conclusion that there was fraud.  He saw that he was losing at decided to cry fraud like the sore loser he is and afterwards, tried his hardest (which wasn't much) to gin up some "evidence" of it and of course failed spectacularly.
Awaiting a self-pardon. Seems fair, right?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 29, 2020, 04:22:40 PM
Many Vince Foster/Seth Rich deaths coming?  Gotta protect the DNC.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 29, 2020, 08:23:11 PM
Quote from: Cassia on November 29, 2020, 03:14:50 PM
Awaiting a self-pardon. Seems fair, right?

If Trump gets away with pardoning himself, I am going to be so pissed. I already see Conservatives suggesting he do it to "stop the radical Left." If he does it successfully, and Conservatives cheer, they will be admitting that they have no confidence in the judicial system to do what it's supposed to do. You know, like how people on the Left have been saying for years that the system is shit, and biased against people of color? So according to Conservatives, the system isn't a problem for black people, but it is for rich white guys? These people make me want to tear my fucking hair out.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on November 29, 2020, 08:29:11 PM
Don't do that! You have such lovely hair.

;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 29, 2020, 09:01:12 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 29, 2020, 08:23:11 PMI already see Conservatives suggesting he do it to "stop the radical Left."
Is there anything that conservatives wouldn't justify with that phrase?  Or with the assumption that whatever liberals support is "communism"?

Do they have a platform beyond petulant gainsaying?  Granted, the 2020 platform was a bit of an afterthought.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 30, 2020, 12:38:55 AM
The very idea of a President having the power to pardon people, completely bypassing the judicial system, is complete bullshit in the first place. If the person is innocent, let them appeal for a retrial. Or fix the system so it doesn't convict innocent people as often.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 30, 2020, 01:08:51 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 29, 2020, 08:23:11 PM
If Trump gets away with pardoning himself, I am going to be so pissed. I already see Conservatives suggesting he do it to "stop the radical Left." If he does it successfully, and Conservatives cheer, they will be admitting that they have no confidence in the judicial system to do what it's supposed to do. You know, like how people on the Left have been saying for years that the system is shit, and biased against people of color? So according to Conservatives, the system isn't a problem for black people, but it is for rich white guys? These people make me want to tear my fucking hair out.

Ford pardoned Nixon, Nixon didn't pardon himself.  Ignorance and Left conspiracy theory!

Obama pardoned the most people, including the convicted Weatherman bitch who is on the executive committee of BLM ;-)

Activists don't like constitutions because it limits their revolution.

There are much worse words to use with liberals than (neo)communist ;-)  As a Stalinist I support this message.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 30, 2020, 01:58:11 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 30, 2020, 12:38:55 AMThe very idea of a President having the power to pardon people, completely bypassing the judicial system, is complete bullshit in the first place. If the person is innocent, let them appeal for a retrial. Or fix the system so it doesn't convict innocent people as often.
Sometimes, our system *accidentally* goes after whistleblowers and activists a tad too hard.  By accident.  Or maybe people who evaded the draft for a war they didn't want because they like to...letsee...live.  So it's convenient to have a way to quickly grant clemency so they can come back to the country without fear of being arrested and/or thrown in solitary for months accidentally.

That and any country with the death penalty has to have the option to quickly call it off in case the system accidentally convicts the wrong guy.

The general assumption was that the President, elected by the majority of voters (or a few million short of the majority, whichever), would be answerable to the people and therefore wouldn't use and abuse that power by pardoning people who committed serious crimes on his behalf.

We have the best legal system in the world, tho.  Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on November 30, 2020, 09:13:25 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 30, 2020, 01:58:11 AM
Sometimes, our system *accidentally* goes after whistleblowers and activists a tad too hard.  By accident.  Or maybe people who evaded the draft for a war they didn't want because they like to...letsee...live.  So it's convenient to have a way to quickly grant clemency so they can come back to the country without fear of being arrested and/or thrown in solitary for months accidentally.

That and any country with the death penalty has to have the option to quickly call it off in case the system accidentally convicts the wrong guy.

The general assumption was that the President, elected by the majority of voters (or a few million short of the majority, whichever), would be answerable to the people and therefore wouldn't use and abuse that power by pardoning people who committed serious crimes on his behalf.

We have the best legal system in the world, tho.  Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

I'm okay with the mayor calling off an execution. That's local government making a decision for its own community, and the death penalty is also bullshit anyway. But again, aren't Conservatives supposed to be the ones for local governments and states rights over federal intervention? It's almost like they only say that to oppose Democrats making any changes while they have the power in the White House. Hmm...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on November 30, 2020, 09:32:09 AM
That Amber Heard woman gives me the creeps.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on November 30, 2020, 10:17:21 AM
Long time ago, I read some celebrity fluff piece that rated the likeability of famous actors.  Johnny Depp was rated highest as always having time for his fans, but lately he's gotten a little squirrely.  Usually, it seems like actors that have melt downs, do it early in their career, but Depp is getting to be an old man.  Toby Macquire was at the bottom of the list, and that was at the height of his Spiderman days. People thought he was arrogant in real life. I don't think Amber Heard was even known back then.

As for Amber and Johnny, that's obviously a match made in Hell.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 30, 2020, 11:11:30 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 30, 2020, 01:58:11 AM
Sometimes, our system *accidentally* goes after whistleblowers and activists a tad too hard.  By accident.  Or maybe people who evaded the draft for a war they didn't want because they like to...letsee...live.  So it's convenient to have a way to quickly grant clemency so they can come back to the country without fear of being arrested and/or thrown in solitary for months accidentally.

That and any country with the death penalty has to have the option to quickly call it off in case the system accidentally convicts the wrong guy.

The general assumption was that the President, elected by the majority of voters (or a few million short of the majority, whichever), would be answerable to the people and therefore wouldn't use and abuse that power by pardoning people who committed serious crimes on his behalf.

We have the best legal system in the world, tho.  Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Philip Haney, DHS whistleblower against Obama admin, who wrote a book, was murdered this year.  Obama was particularly vigorous against whistleblowers ... particularly General Flynn.  The US is evil.  Which is why I like it ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on November 30, 2020, 01:19:40 PM
Quote from: SGOS on November 30, 2020, 10:17:21 AM
Long time ago, I read some celebrity fluff piece that rated the likeability of famous actors.  Johnny Depp was rated highest as always having time for his fans, but lately he's gotten a little squirrely.  Usually, it seems like actors that have melt downs, do it early in their career, but Depp is getting to be an old man.  Toby Macquire was at the bottom of the list, and that was at the height of his Spiderman days. People thought he was arrogant in real life. I don't think Amber Heard was even known back then.

As for Amber and Johnny, that's obviously a match made in Hell.
Could we say that Johnny has gained "Heard immunity". Sorry, so sorry.
Mr Trump is an expert, you know.....
“Sure ... you’ll develop like a herd mentality, it’s going to be herd developed, and that’s going to happen”


Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 30, 2020, 02:12:26 PM
Americans are sheeple, herd immunity is all they got going for themselves ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on November 30, 2020, 04:25:42 PM
Do you guys ever check out the Republican side of the internet to figure out how they're coping?  I find it to be equal parts amusing and insightful.

(https://preview.redd.it/wmzucusvn6261.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=3cd537a79c3d870a7b1921da4ab64961f05d9b45)

(https://i.redd.it/qxcb9sl4es161.png)

Wait till they figure out where people live.

(https://preview.redd.it/47ca6yw1vs161.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=f37d62ac9d05b5fc66c54dadfa3b64699f89c6a4)

Red California lol

(https://preview.redd.it/6s18wokwkv161.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=9f886d86df72edda2c4e4c46182b9e9432d86754)

Joe Biden, famous Youtuber
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on November 30, 2020, 07:48:44 PM
So how soon will the Dems start executing all the Republicans?  Can't wait for the mega death ;-)

"PENNSYLVANIA GOP SENDS ITS POSTMARKED BALLOT CASE TO THE SUPREME COURT" ... Pennsylvania Dem Supreme Court of course said "nothing to see here".  SCOTUS can vote 5/4 to hear this if they want.  If they hear it, then they decide it.  Broken implementation of Penn mail-in voting law, and then more mail-in ballots came in than were mailed out.  Of course the SCOTUS could decide that Obama is President For Life ... Wakanda!

Druggies don't accept any kind of reality, not just crooked elections ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on December 01, 2020, 03:44:02 PM
Barr says no evidence of voter fraud.....how bout that. Donald probably blew a vessel or two in his tweeting fingers.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 01, 2020, 06:32:32 PM
Quote from: aitm on December 01, 2020, 03:44:02 PM
Barr says no evidence of voter fraud.....how bout that. Donald probably blew a vessel or two in his tweeting fingers.

FBI says that Hunter can fuck who he wants, take crooked money from who he wants, smoke what he wants and give half his criminal winnings to his dad. Joe.  Funny how people think this is OK.  Maybe US is ... evil.  AJ Barr is as much Deep State as Comey.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on December 01, 2020, 07:04:14 PM
Now rumors of pay for pardon....say it ain’t true.....lol
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 01, 2020, 07:47:33 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EoLPcLsWMAMcHLF?format=png&name=small)

Are you guys sure we made the right decision?  I mean, the first one seems pretty good, but that guy in second really looks like presidential material.  Really nailing that fringe conspiracy mongering leadership we need right now.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 01, 2020, 09:26:02 PM
Quote from: aitm on December 01, 2020, 07:04:14 PM
Now rumors of pay for pardon....say it ain’t true.....lol

Everyone in Washington has their price.  Money is the ultimate corruption (other than sex, power etc).  So the Clinton Foundation wasn't pay-to-play?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on December 01, 2020, 09:53:14 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on November 29, 2020, 08:23:11 PM
If Trump gets away with pardoning himself, I am going to be so pissed. I already see Conservatives suggesting he do it to "stop the radical Left." If he does it successfully, and Conservatives cheer, they will be admitting that they have no confidence in the judicial system to do what it's supposed to do. You know, like how people on the Left have been saying for years that the system is shit, and biased against people of color? So according to Conservatives, the system isn't a problem for black people, but it is for rich white guys? These people make me want to tear my fucking hair out.
It won't help him with those sixty-some indictments waiting for him in New York.  A Presidential pardon is a) only good for federal offenses and b) carries an implicit admission of guilt anyway.  One doesn't pardon the innocent, after all.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on December 02, 2020, 04:02:43 AM
I don't know anything about OANN news network, are we sure he didn't misspell QANON? OR is it something similar considering he says 'watching right now'.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 02, 2020, 05:40:25 AM
Quote from: trdsf on December 01, 2020, 09:53:14 PM
It won't help him with those sixty-some indictments waiting for him in New York.  A Presidential pardon is a) only good for federal offenses and b) carries an implicit admission of guilt anyway.  One doesn't pardon the innocent, after all.

Can't wait for the mass executions ... but who is in the cattle cars?

People under the sway of the CCP remind me of Big Trouble In Little China
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 02, 2020, 05:41:07 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on December 02, 2020, 04:02:43 AM
I don't know anything about OANN news network, are we sure he didn't misspell QANON? OR is it something similar considering he says 'watching right now'.

All wrong-think is run by zombie Nixon from underneath San Clemente ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on December 02, 2020, 12:14:18 PM
Trump threatens defense veto over social media protections (https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-media-social-media-elections-defense-policy-5197fef33054aedc559474761595414b)

President Donald Trump is threatening to veto a defense policy bill unless it ends protections for internet companies that shield them from being held liable for material posted by their users.

On Twitter Tuesday night, Trump took aim at Section 230 of the 1996 Communications Decency Act, which protects companies that can host trillions of messages from being sued into oblivion by anyone who feels wronged by something someone else has posted â€" whether their complaint is legitimate or not.

Trump called Section 230 “a serious threat to our National Security & Election Integrity,” adding, “Therefore, if the very dangerous & unfair Section 230 is not completely terminated as part of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), I will be forced to unequivocally VETO the Bill.”

Trump has been waging war against social media companies for months, claiming they are biased against conservative voices. ...



Whether social media companies or internet service providers should be liable for content posted by users has been an ongoing discussion for years. What Trump doesn't appear to understand is that if these companies are subject to lawsuits for their content they will be more restrictive to anything deemed controversial, including political speech, not less. Facebook could ban political speech just as they ban pornography for being against their terms of service. If Twitter is treated like a publication and not a town square they have even more of a right and responsibility to edit their content. Trump would almost certainly be banned from Facebook and Twitter because he's too great a liability. Someone might want to explain this to him.

https://youtu.be/mEEJ6LdKbnQ
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on December 02, 2020, 12:25:37 PM
Probably due to election stress, Trump started to reveal even more irrational behavior than usual in the last few months.  Since losing the election, he is now approaching something on the order of seriously deranged.  I don't know if he's just being a drama queen, or if he's actually lost his mind.  He needs to be removed from office immediately.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 02, 2020, 12:29:22 PM
Very weak POTUS.  Stalin would have liquidated the MSM 4 years ago ;-)  Social Media under Stalin would have only put out Stalin's message (so in that respect, we are moving in his direction) ... only MAGA would have been allowed.  Of course in the US, without Sec 230, all Social Media will have to shutter (cease operation) including this forum.  Given snowflakes with ambulance chasing lawyers, all content is controversial.  There is no content on this forum that won't result in cattle car trips.

Remove from office immediately?  All of Washington DC needs to be removed immediately ;-)  It has a fatal infection of politicians.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on December 02, 2020, 12:30:16 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 30, 2020, 04:25:42 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/47ca6yw1vs161.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=f37d62ac9d05b5fc66c54dadfa3b64699f89c6a4)

Red California lol
I just glanced at the map and thought it was just another fantasy map trying to show something or other, until I noticed you pointed out red California.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 02, 2020, 12:34:01 PM
The parties switched colors several years ago.  California is Red, as in Communist.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 02, 2020, 01:32:48 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on December 02, 2020, 04:02:43 AM
I don't know anything about OANN news network, are we sure he didn't misspell QANON? OR is it something similar considering he says 'watching right now'.
It's a real network, but it's hardly news.  It's Trump's personal propaganda network and basically unheard of before his reign.

They're bizarrely similar to those Nod propagandists in Tiberian Sun.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/swVLGhyzLOQ/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 02, 2020, 01:57:17 PM
Trump has superpowers, he is everywhere, everywhere ... aieee

Actually OANN is one of several recent news outlets ... Fox was bought by Disney some time ago, they are complete rats (Mickey Mouse).  The on-line content is much like Fox (sensationalist) so really just ... grifting from crumbs dropped by Fox.  I don't watch any MSM, check out Fox just in case they have real news instead of People Magazine crap.  Real news is way outside the Beltway, you have to know the secret password to get into the Real News Speakeasy.  MSM and Fox only sell near-beer ... for a real drink you need bathtub gin.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on December 02, 2020, 04:18:33 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on December 02, 2020, 04:02:43 AM
I don't know anything about OANN news network, are we sure he didn't misspell QANON? OR is it something similar considering he says 'watching right now'.

Think the worst aspects of FOX, now go even further right-wing and add a dash of North Korean state news and you are in the general area.

The reason Trump loves them so much is when they are at the WH Press Meetings, the conversation literally goes like this...

Trump - "Next question... OANN?"

OANN - "Hi Mr. President, people who think you are not a good president... what is wrong with them? They are really stupid people because you have done more for this country than any man to have ever lived, honestly if Jesus came back I would have a hard time telling the difference between you and him. And look at these other reporters... they all hate you, honestly we think you should just get rid of all of them and just invite us because they don't care about you like we do."

Trump - "What an amazing question, an amazing question. OANN truly has it's finger on the pulse of America, such an amazing group of people, go watch their channel they are the amazingist of America."
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on December 02, 2020, 05:18:31 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on December 02, 2020, 04:18:33 PM
Think the worst aspects of FOX, now go even further right-wing and add a dash of North Korean state news and you are in the general area.

The reason Trump loves them so much is when they are at the WH Press Meetings, the conversation literally goes like this...

Trump - "Next question... OANN?"

OANN - "Hi Mr. President, people who think you are not a good president... what is wrong with them? They are really stupid people because you have done more for this country than any man to have ever lived, honestly if Jesus came back I would have a hard time telling the difference between you and him. And look at these other reporters... they all hate you, honestly we think you should just get rid of all of them and just invite us because they don't care about you like we do."

Trump - "What an amazing question, an amazing question. OANN truly has it's finger on the pulse of America, such an amazing group of people, go watch their channel they are the amazingist of America."

They also have the guy with the slogan that goes, "Even when I'm wrong, I'm right." Pretty much sums up the entire channel.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on December 02, 2020, 05:34:23 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 30, 2020, 04:25:42 PM

(https://preview.redd.it/47ca6yw1vs161.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=f37d62ac9d05b5fc66c54dadfa3b64699f89c6a4)

Red California lol



When I saw that picture, if they try to say he won with this bullshit, then I'll happy to begin the Purge Movie
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 02, 2020, 05:42:51 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on December 02, 2020, 04:18:33 PM
Think the worst aspects of FOX, now go even further right-wing and add a dash of North Korean state news and you are in the general area.

The reason Trump loves them so much is when they are at the WH Press Meetings, the conversation literally goes like this...

Trump - "Next question... OANN?"

OANN - "Hi Mr. President, people who think you are not a good president... what is wrong with them? They are really stupid people because you have done more for this country than any man to have ever lived, honestly if Jesus came back I would have a hard time telling the difference between you and him. And look at these other reporters... they all hate you, honestly we think you should just get rid of all of them and just invite us because they don't care about you like we do."

Trump - "What an amazing question, an amazing question. OANN truly has it's finger on the pulse of America, such an amazing group of people, go watch their channel they are the amazingist of America."

Anything that isn't CNN/MSNBC is treason, kill Mickey Mouse ;-)

The Purge is coming ... 320 million American dead, nobody will miss them.

"Dominion Whistleblower Testifies On "Complete Fraud" At Detroit Voting Center" ... Boomer Dems "Lucy in the sky, with diamonds ..."
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on December 03, 2020, 01:42:23 PM
Every day is like a 9/11 death toll now.

January 22
“We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”

January 24
"China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”

February 26
“The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”

March 6
“I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”

March 13
“I don’t take responsibility at all.”

March 17
“I felt like it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic.”

April 23
"I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? As you see, it gets in the lungs, it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that."

May 14
“Don’t forget, we have more cases than anybody in the world. But why? Because we do more testing,”

May 19
“When we have a lot of cases, I don't look at that as a bad thing, I look at that as, in a certain respect, as being a good thing,...Because it means our testing is much better. I view it as a badge of honor, really, it's a badge of honor.”

June 23
"It's going away,"

August 3
“OPEN THE SCHOOLS!!! Right now I think it’s under control.”

September 14
“I’m on a stage, it’s very far away, so I’m not at all concerned.”

October 26
"Cases up because we TEST, TEST, TEST. A Fake News Media Conspiracy. Many young people who heal very fast. 99.9%. Corrupt Media conspiracy at all time high. On November 4th., topic will totally change. VOTE!"

October 30
“Our doctors get more money if someone dies from Covid,” and so “when in doubt choose Covid.”






     
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 03, 2020, 02:51:01 PM
Bring out your dead!!  More dead people please ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 03, 2020, 07:33:14 PM
Pro-steal Trumpling makes an *interesting* case for voter ID (https://www.thewrap.com/trump-election-fraud-witness-says-we-need-voter-id-because-all-chinese-look-alike-video/)

Quoteshe spoke at length about various interactions she had with others that she thought indicated widespread voter fraud â€" though it needs to be made clear that she and the other witnesses didn’t provide evidence.

QuoteOne specific complaint she had, which had little to do with what she was there to testify about, was that people can vote without a photo ID.

This is a problem, she said, because “all Chinese look alike.”
QuoteThe curious statements come about two months after Rudy Giuliani was caught on video making a number of racist jokes about Asian people.
Funny coincidence: Biden got the lion's share of the asian American vote - just shy of 2 to 1 compared to Trump.  And now that the election's over, the deplorables are suddenly casting allegations (sans evidence, tellingly) about "suspicious" asians in their midst and once again drumming on the idea of making voting more difficult.  You know, to combat "fraud".  I'm sure leal Americans with asian heritage love the fact that they're now being targeted by the Republicans and want to vote Republican even more now.

Imho, ensuring that all registered Americans can vote and not fear having their ballots thrown out by sore losers in a fit of traitorous spite is definitely something the incoming Democrats should take a look at.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on December 03, 2020, 08:28:05 PM
The country is in decline, without a doubt.  And 66% of Americans think so. 
https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2020/12/ted-lasso-emily-paris-unquiet-americans/617275/

"The survey arrived just after the publication of the latest Social Progress Index, which found that the United States is one of only three countries where citizens are worse off than they were in 2011, when the index started tracking quality of life."

The destruction wrought by trumpies is so deep and so wide that it will take more than Biden to fix it--and I hope that it is fixable; maybe not tho.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 03, 2020, 09:12:48 PM
Trumpists ... Biden is Satan, Trump is G-d
Bidenists ... Trump is Satan, Biden is G-d
Puritans ... Burn the witches, but which witch is which?
Atheists ... We don't believe in G-d, but we do believe in politics
Theist ... We believe in G-d, and we believe in politicians

""This Needs Answers": CCTV Video Of Georgia Poll Workers Sparks Election Fraud Outrage" ... don't believe your lying eyes

"Voting Machine USB Drives Had Totals Altered Overnight, Witness In Nevada Election Contest Alleges" ... don't believe your lying ears
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 04, 2020, 11:45:36 AM
(https://preview.redd.it/hx223nb9o6361.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=4d149a170d2abe7247cca3b2831ee521b4367710)

The Disctriout Court never saw it coming.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 04, 2020, 01:15:49 PM
Democrats are all Chinese, you can't be master race without being Chinese ;-)  Beijing Biden Forever!

"In Bizarre Interview, Biden Jokes He Would 'Fake Illness And Resign' Over Disagreement" ... "Like I told Barack..." ... What?  Touch my leg hairs, let me smell your head?  The whole goal is to get Kamala as President.  So she can "pleasure" her whole cabinet ;-(

"Barr's Appointment Of Special Counsel Leaves Biden And Democrats In A Muddle" .. if an inaugurated Biden isn't removed for senility by Pelosi/Harris ... then the Republicans will impeach him for his many crimes.

"The Devil went down to Georgia - He was looking for some votes to steal" ... the "water pipe bursting gate" has arrived.  Nixon's plumbers would be ashamed of them ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 05, 2020, 06:46:22 PM
27 out of 249 GOP Congressmen accept reality (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/survey-who-won-election-republicans-congress/2020/12/04/1a1011f6-3650-11eb-8d38-6aea1adb3839_story.html).  Just over 10%.

On the other hand, *only* 8 Republicans "voiced support for Trump’s current strategy of claiming victory and asking state legislatures to declare him the victor in states that he lost" (aka support sham elections and demolishing the Republic)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on December 05, 2020, 07:21:13 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 05, 2020, 06:46:22 PM
27 out of 249 GOP Congressmen accept reality (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/survey-who-won-election-republicans-congress/2020/12/04/1a1011f6-3650-11eb-8d38-6aea1adb3839_story.html).  Just over 10%.

On the other hand, *only* 8 Republicans "voiced support for Trump’s current strategy of claiming victory and asking state legislatures to declare him the victor in states that he lost" (aka support sham elections and demolishing the Republic)
So much for pushing our democracy all over the globe....LOL
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on December 05, 2020, 08:34:12 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 05, 2020, 06:46:22 PM
27 out of 249 GOP Congressmen accept reality (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/survey-who-won-election-republicans-congress/2020/12/04/1a1011f6-3650-11eb-8d38-6aea1adb3839_story.html).  Just over 10%.

On the other hand, *only* 8 Republicans "voiced support for Trump’s current strategy of claiming victory and asking state legislatures to declare him the victor in states that he lost" (aka support sham elections and demolishing the Republic)

What I take from this survey is most politicians don't have enough integrity to answer a simple question one way or another.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 05, 2020, 09:23:33 PM
In related news, Trump wants the list of Republicans who "sided" with Biden over him (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-asks-for-list-of-25-republicans-who-acknowledge-biden-win)

He seems to have learned quite a lot from Putin over the years.

Republicans are in a tight spot, since any of them acknowledging reality and saying that Biden won (newsflash: he did) is construed as lack of loyalty to Trump, which is apparently the only thing that matters to Trump.  So they either have to lick this clown's jackboots or have their base turn against them.  If only they could have avoided this situation somehow - like oh I dunno, not supporting Trump in the first place.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on December 06, 2020, 07:33:40 AM
I woke up with an odd reaction this morning feeling sad.  I think Trump needs to be thrown out on the streets (and his family with him).  Note, I do not feel sorry for him.  He's getting far more than he deserves and will receive all kinds of post presidential benefits for basically wrecking western democracy and ultimately killing hundreds of thousands of Americans.  And since he has been voted out of office, his behavior resembles that of an emotionally unstable 5 year old.

I just feel sad.  I don't want revenge and I don't want to punish, but he should be locked away out of sight without his smart phone in a place where he will no longer be able to damage society and the system.  But no, he will be rewarded for his "service" instead.  Like any psychopath, he will benefit from a system that will give him legal rights designed to protect the innocent, only he will get much much more than the average serial killer.  That's not fair to the rest of us.  I don't believe he should be punished, but he needs to be removed from society as a public menace and locked away from the media, so that the rest of us can take time to heal.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on December 06, 2020, 08:10:19 AM
Quote from: SGOS on December 06, 2020, 07:33:40 AM
I woke up with an odd reaction this morning feeling sad.  I think Trump needs to be thrown out on the streets (and his family with him).  Note, I do not feel sorry for him.  He's getting far more than he deserves and will receive all kinds of post presidential benefits for basically wrecking western democracy and ultimately killing hundreds of thousands of Americans.  And since he has been voted out of office, his behavior resembles that of an emotionally unstable 5 year old.

I just feel sad.  I don't want revenge and I don't want to punish, but he should be locked away out of sight without his smart phone in a place where he will no longer be able to damage society and the system.  But no, he will be rewarded for his "service" instead.  Like any psychopath, he will benefit from a system that will give him legal rights designed to protect the innocent, only he will get much much more than the average serial killer.  That's not fare to the rest of us.  I don't believe he should be punished, but he needs to be removed from society as a public menace and locked away from the media, so that the rest of us can take time to heal.
He is incredibly popular. That is why republicans in office cower to their bully who literally trashes all their traditional core values. Republicans are such a bunch of pussies... they are afraid of what he will do AFTER he leaves the Whitehouse. They are afraid of when Ivanka runs for president. Trump promotes a retaliation list naming every republican who does not support his attempt at a coup.

The idiots who continue support Trump with donations are also pussies, so afraid of Mexicans, LGBTQs, commies, Blacks and China. These backward looking disillusioned, unlearned, un-travelled midwest and southern whites are afraid of everything except what is actually killing them: The virus and their lard bellies and big fat asses. Hillary was correct. They are deplorables who are stupid enough to think they know something. Deep State, Jesus loving, Anti-science morons. Trade wars with Canada, Mexico and Europe, LOL. No one has done more to elevate China's status than Trump.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 06, 2020, 10:01:12 AM
Democrats are so brave, they have peace prize winner Obama start 4 new wars, before we finish the existing ones.  Democrats are so brave, vs voters, that per their Presidential candidate, they staged the greatest fake election of all time.

It isn't bravery that motivates the average person, it is survival first, then greed.  Greed is good ... particularly if you are a greedy would-be commissar, but bad if you are private enterprise.  But survival is irreplaceable.  Too bad millions will die soon.

Beijing Biden ... Democrats are so ... reality based ;-)  They don't recognize a criminal, senile fool or a sex-for-power regime  America started becoming a Chinese colony, when Kissinger visited Mao.  The reality is ... America is dead.  Long live America!

War is peace - MIC
freedom is slavery - Identity politics
ignorance is strength - MSM propaganda

Do you love Big Don or Big Joe?  Have you had your 15 minute hate on this forum?

Not MAGA this year, MOFA ... Make Orwell Fiction Again
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on December 06, 2020, 01:09:39 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 05, 2020, 06:46:22 PM
27 out of 249 GOP Congressmen accept reality (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/survey-who-won-election-republicans-congress/2020/12/04/1a1011f6-3650-11eb-8d38-6aea1adb3839_story.html).  Just over 10%.

On the other hand, *only* 8 Republicans "voiced support for Trump’s current strategy of claiming victory and asking state legislatures to declare him the victor in states that he lost" (aka support sham elections and demolishing the Republic)
You're correct to highlight 'only' there, considering that number should be zero.

Basically, the Republican Party is effectively a cult now, and Donald Trump is their Jim Jones.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on December 06, 2020, 01:23:23 PM
Here's an interesting read from The Atlantic: The Republican Plan for the Next Four Years Isn’t Normal: The GOP may function primarily as a promotional tool for Trumpâ€"to the detriment of its future (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/12/trump-will-reign-atop-gop-until-2024/617300/).

QuoteAn entente between the pro- and anti-Trump camps seems unlikely; there’s no compromise when it comes to Trump. “I can tell you one thing: The Never Trumpers are banished from the party,” Stephen Moore, an outside economic adviser to Trump, told me. “We will never forgive them … Anyone associated with the Never Trumpersâ€"they’re done.”

If that’s the case, so may be the party. Sticking with Trump could undercut the GOP’s long-term relevance. The president lost, after all, by 7 million votes. While he made some inroads with Latino voters in a few battleground states, overall he won only about a third of this fast-growing constituency. And exit polls showed that Biden won six out of 10 voters under the age of 30.

No rule says that a political party must endureâ€"ask the Whigs. Before the election, I spoke with David Holt, the Republican mayor of Oklahoma City, who warned that the GOP risked being flattened by “a demographic freight train.”
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 06, 2020, 01:41:29 PM
Quote from: trdsf on December 06, 2020, 01:09:39 PM
You're correct to highlight 'only' there, considering that number should be zero.

Basically, the Republican Party is effectively a cult now, and Donald Trump is their Jim Jones.

I think it is mostly W Coast Dems who are into drugs ;-)  Drink Beijing Biden's kool-aide?  Maybe Hunter's meth pipe can be your icon?

The Tea Party -> MAGA -> will continue even without Trump in 2022 or 2024.  I think y'all need to invite the Chinese army to America ... they aren't soy boys ;-)
===
Key dates:

Dec 8 - SCOTUS review of current dispute (Pennsylvania certification can only be stopped before Dec 9)
Dec 14 - Electoral College sits
Jan 8 - Congress rubber stamps the decision of the Electoral College
Jan 20 - Xi Jin Ping inaugurated as Chinese President of the US ;-)

It actually doesn't matter, which billionaire slave master is appointed by the Elite (with help from the Deep State and MSM).  A slave is a slave.

Why are you a Chinese slave?  Because you are a slave to Chinese goods.  Why are you a slave to Chinese goods?  Because you are a consumer.  Why are you a consumer?  Because you reject the 7 cardinal virtues and embrace the 7 deadly sins (because you are a deplorable too).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 08, 2020, 12:38:44 PM
(https://i.redd.it/fbxu1ef3qy361.png)

You guys ever lose so badly that your ego couldn't take it so you made up your own score and demanded that everyone else go along with it?  Pretty normal behavior, right?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 08, 2020, 01:08:21 PM
Trillions of grift, worldwide are at stake for the "important people" who are not you ;-)

"Texas Sues Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania And Wisconsin At US Supreme Court Over Election" ... no, not Trump, not miscellaneous defendants ... but Texas!  Saddle up boys!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LArGlfEVYqM

California, don't bring your hash stash to a gun fight ;-)  Will General Sibley, invade NM, AZ and CO again? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Hopkins_Sibley#/media/File:Henry_Hopkins_Sibley.jpg

How about putting GA, MI, PN and WI under Reconstruction, yeahah!  Republican President's precedent.

Republican police dealing with Democrat outlaws ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIpVWTZYWr8

Only thing worse than politicians are senior citizen politicians.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enuOArEfqGo

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 09, 2020, 09:54:22 AM
“The Supreme Court only denied emergency injunctive relief...the underlying appeal by the Kelly and the other lawmakers was still pending...” ... the Texas lawsuit made the emergency injunctive relief moot.  SCOTUS dismissed without even commenting.

"Missouri & Louisiana Join Texas Taking The Election Fight To Supreme Court" ... 47 more states to go (unless they want Reconstruction)

"Elon Musk Says He Has Officially Moved To Texas" .. yee haw Musk clearly doesn't have confidence in Beijing Biden

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on December 09, 2020, 01:22:25 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 08, 2020, 12:38:44 PM
(https://i.redd.it/fbxu1ef3qy361.png)

You guys ever lose so badly that your ego couldn't take it so you made up your own score and demanded that everyone else go along with it?  Pretty normal behavior, right?
This is basically trying to flip the Monopoly board over because you have to declare bankruptcy.  And is just as immature.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 09, 2020, 01:29:47 PM
Trump's coup attempt in Pennsylvania failed (https://people.com/politics/supreme-court-denies-republican-quest-to-block-joe-biden-election-win-in-pennsylvania/)

It's all over but the crying.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on December 09, 2020, 01:43:49 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 09, 2020, 01:29:47 PM
Trump's coup attempt in Pennsylvania failed (https://people.com/politics/supreme-court-denies-republican-quest-to-block-joe-biden-election-win-in-pennsylvania/)

It's all over but the crying.
And it was Alito who did it; Pennsylvania is in his circuit.  If the Oval Orifice has lost Alito, stick a fork in him, he's done.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on December 09, 2020, 03:33:25 PM
He's been done for a while now. The smokescreen fools no-one but the dimwitted. I don't believe it even fooled himself for long if ever.
His persistence in maintaining it is simply another testimony to how he prioritizes his ego over everything else. From democracy and freedom to the well-being of his citizens, to their very lives.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on December 09, 2020, 06:40:54 PM
He is simply into his money making scheme right now.  He has been given over 200 million so far and he will milk his cult followers for all he can.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on December 09, 2020, 06:50:39 PM
Now, after 4 years of saying Trump supporters are deplorable racist white supremacists, Democrats are saying it is time for reconciliation.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 09, 2020, 06:52:47 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 09, 2020, 06:50:39 PM
Now, after 4 years of saying Trump supporters are deplorable racist white supremacists, Democrats are saying it is time for reconciliation.

Stalin reconciled his enemies, with extreme prejudice ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 09, 2020, 06:53:20 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 09, 2020, 01:29:47 PM
Trump's coup attempt in Pennsylvania failed (https://people.com/politics/supreme-court-denies-republican-quest-to-block-joe-biden-election-win-in-pennsylvania/)

It's all over but the crying.

I hope so.  But if you are wrong, do you have a bunker in Venezuela?  Dominion needs more election machine mechanics there.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 09, 2020, 06:54:37 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on December 09, 2020, 03:33:25 PM
He's been done for a while now. The smokescreen fools no-one but the dimwitted. I don't believe it even fooled himself for long if ever.
His persistence in maintaining it is simply another testimony to how he prioritizes his ego over everything else. From democracy and freedom to the well-being of his citizens, to their very lives.

Funny how egomaniacs have not tolerance for Trump ;-) ... like plain Janes in a room with Miss America ;-))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 09, 2020, 06:55:09 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on December 09, 2020, 06:40:54 PM
He is simply into his money making scheme right now.  He has been given over 200 million so far and he will milk his cult followers for all he can.

Biden took no money from anyone (says Dems on meth pipes f*ing their dead brother's wife).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on December 09, 2020, 07:08:02 PM
Quote from: Baruch on December 09, 2020, 06:54:37 PM
Funny how egomaniacs have not tolerance for Trump ;-) ... like plain Janes in a room with Miss America ;-))

I don't know, not sure if if I'd classify myself as an egomaniac per say. I like myself, but that's about it. And I don't mind admitting flaws. If me being an egomaniac is what you are implying.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on December 09, 2020, 07:16:18 PM
Quote from: Baruch on December 09, 2020, 06:52:47 PM
Stalin reconciled his enemies, with extreme prejudice ;-)

Don't give them ideas.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 09, 2020, 07:37:54 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 09, 2020, 07:16:18 PM
Don't give them ideas.

Leftists aren't illiterate.  Rightists can hire college shills to do their reading for them.

"One Third Of US States Have Now Joined Texas SCOTUS Bid To Overturn Election" .. hope the Dems have better weapons than organic tea bags

In other news, Hunter Biden is still alive, and is under IRS investigation about all those deals he never reported ;-)


Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 09, 2020, 07:55:50 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on December 09, 2020, 07:08:02 PM
I don't know, not sure if if I'd classify myself as an egomaniac per say. I like myself, but that's about it. And I don't mind admitting flaws. If me being an egomaniac is what you are implying.

I don't imply in this case.  You are uncomfortably sane relative to others here ;-)  But saying Trump is an egomaniac is Capt Obvious, not Mr Obvious ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on December 09, 2020, 08:21:32 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 09, 2020, 06:50:39 PM
Now, after 4 years of saying Trump supporters are deplorable racist white supremacists, Democrats are saying it is time for reconciliation.
Screw that. Anybody in my life's circle who took Trump as an opportunity to reveal their racist, homophobic proclivities is history.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on December 09, 2020, 09:00:35 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 09, 2020, 01:29:47 PM
Trump's coup attempt in Pennsylvania failed (https://people.com/politics/supreme-court-denies-republican-quest-to-block-joe-biden-election-win-in-pennsylvania/)

It's all over but the crying.
I'm still worried about mob violence.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on December 09, 2020, 11:44:35 PM
I've just come across a word that I'd forgotten about: trumpery. It means showy nonsense.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 10, 2020, 01:37:59 AM
Quote from: Cassia on December 09, 2020, 08:21:32 PM
Screw that. Anybody in my life's circle who took Trump as an opportunity to reveal their racist, homophobic proclivities is history.

I am an angel.  My friends are angels.  My opponents are enemies.  Enemies are devils.  Per Revelation, this is the Earthly or even Cosmic apocalypse, where the good guys justifiably exterminate (see Daleks) the bad guys permanently, ushering in the millennium (see Third Reich)??

When is genocide a good idea?? "Racist etc" is the new "Jew".

Reality is worse than "trumpery" ... "Vanity of vanities; all is vanity"
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on December 10, 2020, 02:21:06 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 09, 2020, 06:50:39 PM
Now, after 4 years of saying Trump supporters are deplorable racist white supremacists, Democrats are saying it is time for reconciliation.

Biden is saying it's time for reconciliation. Because it's to his advantage that he try to build rapport with people on all sides, or else he wouldn't be able to get anywhere. It's also kind of his responsibility to bring people together as one rather than constantly try to divide us by party line...? I still say Trump's bigoted, antivaxx, religious nutjob, shamelessly hypocritical morons can fuck themselves. Don't confuse one person's rhetoric with the entire party changing their tune. And Heaven forbid we have a President who doesn't constantly demonize everyone else, right? Maybe if Biden claimed to be the most persecuted President in history and declared all Conservative media to be a threat to our national security you'd feel more comfortable?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on December 10, 2020, 02:30:10 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 09, 2020, 07:16:18 PM
Don't give them ideas.

Right, because Democrats are the violent bigots here. Fuck off, you moron. And stop pretending to be in the middle. You couldn't spot Conservative bullshit if it Tweeted at you every day, for four years straight.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 10, 2020, 10:01:08 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 10, 2020, 02:21:06 AM
Biden is saying it's time for reconciliation. Because it's to his advantage that he try to build rapport with people on all sides, or else he wouldn't be able to get anywhere. It's also kind of his responsibility to bring people together as one rather than constantly try to divide us by party line...? I still say Trump's bigoted, antivaxx, religious nutjob, shamelessly hypocritical morons can fuck themselves. Don't confuse one person's rhetoric with the entire party changing their tune. And Heaven forbid we have a President who doesn't constantly demonize everyone else, right? Maybe if Biden claimed to be the most persecuted President in history and declared all Conservative media to be a threat to our national security you'd feel more comfortable?

Do I love Big Brother?  Hardly, I have hated Big Brother all my life.  Strap a caged rat to my face, will you?

China is a threat to national security.  China owns Biden.  Surrender to China, so you can get a discount at Walmart.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 10, 2020, 10:02:01 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 10, 2020, 02:30:10 AM
Right, because Democrats are the violent bigots here. Fuck off, you moron. And stop pretending to be in the middle. You couldn't spot Conservative bullshit if it Tweeted at you every day, for four years straight.

Atheists are G-d's chosen people?  Well only if you are a secular NYC Jew ;-)

Democrats in 2020 are no longer Americans, maybe not even humans ;-)
===

"Antitrust lawsuit filed against Facebook by 48 US states 'may have legs'" ... take Zuckerberg apart, see if he is an android

"Things are now in motion that cannot be undone." - Gandalf the White, The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King ... lots of dead bodies, but the Orcs lose
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on December 10, 2020, 11:13:13 PM
Quote from: Cassia on December 09, 2020, 08:21:32 PM
Screw that. Anybody in my life's circle who took Trump as an opportunity to reveal their racist, homophobic proclivities is history.
That's the spirit.  Say that anyone who supported Trump is a racist and a homophobe.  That's guaranteed to advance reconciliation.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 10, 2020, 11:56:51 PM
TWENTY States File AGAINST Texas  ... civil war has started!!  War is never good.  Democrats reject all Republicans and vice versa ... this is why I have been an Indy for 25 years.  Millions must die to keep the Bush, Trump, Clinton and Biden families out of jail.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 11, 2020, 01:10:00 AM
Texas already talking secession!  I will support if Texas claims all the former territory of the US is now Republic of Texas ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 11, 2020, 01:12:21 AM
Quote from: SGOS on December 09, 2020, 09:00:35 PM
I'm still worried about mob violence.

Join BLM, AntiFa, Mafia or Democrats .. but I repeat myself ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on December 11, 2020, 01:18:55 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 10, 2020, 11:13:13 PM
That's the spirit.  Say that anyone who supported Trump is a racist and a homophobe.  That's guaranteed to advance reconciliation.

1. Again, we're not a hive mind. Not all of us are interested in reconciliation. Especially if it's with shitty people.

2. Nowhere in her post did she say that everyone who supported Trump is a racist and a homophobe. That's a strawman.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 11, 2020, 01:24:52 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 11, 2020, 01:18:55 AM
1. Again, we're not a hive mind. Not all of us are interested in reconciliation. Especially if it's with shitty people.

2. Nowhere in her post did she say that everyone who supported Trump is a racist and a homophobe. That's a strawman.

I agree on your first point.  I have never liked D or R people.  Nothing to reconcile about.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on December 11, 2020, 02:46:57 AM
I think reconciliation would be very challenging at this point. We have two groups of significant size and influence in the US (among other groups) that don't share the same values and have completely different visions for the America they want to live in. Each side perceives the other not as having different ideas and opinions but as morally bankrupt. Americans no longer trust each other: In 2018, only 37.3 percent of white Americans and 15.3 percent of black Americans felt that most people can be trusted, according to the General Social Survey. Our political system is incentivizing our leaders to be antagonistic rather than cooperative. Social media is designed to generate outrage for profit, amplifying the extremes, and creating a distorted view of the world and our relationship to those around us. Trust in institutions that might be able to address this polarization is severely lacking for justifiable reasons. Even a crisis like the pandemic, which would normally bring Americans together, became another point of division: Seventy-two percent of Danes said they felt more united after the COVID-19 outbreak but only 18 percent of Americans felt the same.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on December 11, 2020, 09:19:58 AM
It’s been estimated that 93% of all Fox watchers are Republicans and 95% of MSNBC watchers are Democrats. Since neither side watches the other’s news programs, each side is cognizant of only its own team’s heavily slanted rhetoric.

The conservative media is awash with details of voter fraud by Democrats, whilst the liberal media states with equal conviction that Mister Trump and his lawyers have provided no details whatever.

Therefore, those who voted Republican will conclude by watching their own “unbiased” news channel that Democrats have tried to steal the election and thereby steal control of the country.

And those who voted Democrat will conclude by watching their own “unbiased” news channel that Republicans have tried to steal the election and thereby steal control of the country.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 11, 2020, 10:40:08 AM
Danes (not counting fake refugees) are all of the same race, like Japan they stick together.  Per Hitler, US is a nation of half-Black mongrels ;-)

Both sides are right, R & D are both morally bankrupt.  This is what godless consumerism gets you.  Lots of cheap Chinese stuff.  Screw Tibet, screw Uighers, screw Foxconn employees.

British Media ... D and R stole the colonies from GB first!

German media 1933-45 ... Hitler was the best chancellor ever!  I love these skeptics who drink at the dirty well of Pravda daily.

"BIDEN/HARRIS NAMED TIME MAGAZINE'S "PERSON OF THE YEAR", TRUMP LABELED "LOSER OF THE YEAR"" ... I remember when they named Hitler man of the year

"If this potato was running against Joe Biden, I’d vote for the potato." - typical Trumper can tell the difference between Biden and a potato.

"CRIMINAL PROBE INTO BIDEN FAMILY CONFIRMED, COVER UP MAY BE THE BIGGEST MEDIA SCANDAL IN US HISTOR.." .. not just for tax evasion by Hunter.  Part of the big plan, will Joe be arrested before Jan 20, making "nobody likes me" Harris the lead at the inaugural?  Republicans want to jail him, Dems want to depose him for senility after the inaugural, Joe just wants a change of Depends ;-)

Lincoln could only offer reconciliation, after he defeated the South on the battlefield.  How will CinC Biden do?

"Today: "Joe Biden is President-Elect" Tomorrow: "Russia intervened in US Supreme Court to change election results"" ... Putin helped Hillary, not Trump.  Hillary was controlled opposition, Trump was/is a lose cannon.

Diplomacy = give way to China bit by bit until China conquers the planet (aka Thucydides Trap, by people who don't understand Thucydides ... aka Sparta should slowly give way to Athens or Athens should slowly give way to Sparta .. but ignore the "archers" Persian gold coin flowing to both sides, being paid to fight each other and not bother the Persians).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on December 11, 2020, 11:25:52 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 11, 2020, 09:19:58 AM
It’s been estimated that 93% of all Fox watchers are Republicans and 95% of MSNBC watchers are Democrats. Since neither side watches the other’s news programs, each side is cognizant of only its own team’s heavily slanted rhetoric.

The conservative media is awash with details of voter fraud by Democrats, whilst the liberal media states with equal conviction that Mister Trump and his lawyers have provided no details whatever.

Therefore, those who voted Republican will conclude by watching their own “unbiased” news channel that Democrats have tried to steal the election and thereby steal control of the country.

And those who voted Democrat will conclude by watching their own “unbiased” news channel that Republicans have tried to steal the election and thereby steal control of the country.

Alternative media and social media are even worse. Few alternative news sources actually have reporters that gather their own news. Alternative media trashes mainstream media for being biased but alternative media is typically very biased. Most cherry-pick stories from other sources and simply provide commentary. People have entire careers on YouTube telling their audience what they want to hear and there is little incentive for them to invite people with differing opinions on their channel. I've seen a pattern where someone starts a channel and is fairly unbiased, finds a niche audience, becomes terrified of losing it, and just settles into repeating the same narrative. Some can be pretty deceptive-- for example, the show Rising on The Hill claims to have a conservative host and a progressive host but both are actually populists who have the same values and rarely disagree.  Meanwhile, social media algorithms are designed to give people more of what they want while users themselves ignore or un-friend people with views they find objectionable.

That said, I read both mainstream and alternative media from a variety of sources. There is nothing wrong with a biased news source as long as one recognizes it's biased and is open to other perspectives. This forum and YouTube are my only social media and I don't ignore anyone on here.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on December 11, 2020, 11:34:00 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 11, 2020, 09:19:58 AM
It’s been estimated that 93% of all Fox watchers are Republicans and 95% of MSNBC watchers are Democrats. Since neither side watches the other’s news programs, each side is cognizant of only its own team’s heavily slanted rhetoric.

Citation needed. And another relevant question: How many people still actually watch the news? I barely ever watch TV at all these days. I'll turn on Comedy Central for some South Park, but I prefer YouTube and leeching off of my parents' streaming services. lol

Also, which side do people in the middle prefer? How many Democrats also watch Fox News? How many Republicans watch MSNBC? All you've got is which one each extreme prefers, assuming you didn't pull those numbers out of nowhere in the first place. You're painting a very incomplete picture here.

Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 11, 2020, 09:19:58 AMThe conservative media is awash with details of voter fraud by Democrats, whilst the liberal media states with equal conviction that Mister Trump and his lawyers have provided no details whatever.

Therefore, those who voted Republican will conclude by watching their own “unbiased” news channel that Democrats have tried to steal the election and thereby steal control of the country.

And those who voted Democrat will conclude by watching their own “unbiased” news channel that Republicans have tried to steal the election and thereby steal control of the country.

Yes. One side pushes the idea that hundreds of millions of votes were faked to simultaneously make Biden President, while also losing the Democrats House seats for...some reason. And the other quotes the exact conversations happening in courts as judges throw out Trump's lawyer's cases, such as the hilarious "non-zero chance" quote. And as someone who is totally not on either side, you can tell which one is telling the truth, can't you? You wouldn't just assume that because Leftists prefer a certain media source over others that that media source is automatically untrustworthy, would you? That would be a gigantic leap in logic, and you wouldn't do that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 11, 2020, 11:34:10 AM
Alternative media = pure evil
NYT = employer of Karl Marx back in the day

CNN = most trusted news source of all time
Biden = most votes gained by any Presidential candidate of all time (actually Rosemary's Baby)

Verification?  Biden said in October of this year, on video ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRnhBmHYN0

Dems are psychos, like Italian or German voters in 1920s - 1930s.  Dems supported this guy ... a noted nationalist and former post card painter ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3N_2r6R-o

Dems supported racist Hitler (for some strange reason) ... but today they support ... a noted communist and former pig farmer ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnm7NoilIMQ

This was on the occasion of his declaring himself Emperor of China (like Mao, no more elections).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on December 11, 2020, 12:32:28 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 11, 2020, 09:19:58 AM
It’s been estimated that 93% of all Fox watchers are Republicans and 95% of MSNBC watchers are Democrats. Since neither side watches the other’s news programs, each side is cognizant of only its own team’s heavily slanted rhetoric.

The conservative media is awash with details of voter fraud by Democrats, whilst the liberal media states with equal conviction that Mister Trump and his lawyers have provided no details whatever.

Therefore, those who voted Republican will conclude by watching their own “unbiased” news channel that Democrats have tried to steal the election and thereby steal control of the country.

And those who voted Democrat will conclude by watching their own “unbiased” news channel that Republicans have tried to steal the election and thereby steal control of the country.

Trump's own tweets are all the "media" I need.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on December 11, 2020, 12:36:56 PM
Sometimes there aren't two sides to a story--not two legit sides.  Trump is a glaring example.  He has no legitimate side to his story.  This headline caught my attention:  Trump Just Broke Through the Last Level of Neo-Fascism.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-just-broke-last-level-085740834.html

"When they start writing histories of the Trump era, I think the one-line summary will be something like this: While some portion of his appeal was based on legitimate grievances of working-class people against elites, he awakened an authoritarian impulse among the citizenry that was far larger and more rabid, and more easily triggered, than most of us ever imagined."

This 'authoritarian impulse' has puzzled me from the get-go.  I still can't fully understand it--but the author goes on:

"That is, if you’d asked me back in, oh, 2013, when Donald Trump was still just the foolish corrupt narcissist most everybody knew he was, what portion of the American public would fall for neo-fascism, I’d have said 25 percent tops. But events have shown us that it’s more like 40. At least 35. That’s pretty frightening.

What do I mean by neo-fascism? It’s a fairly obvious set of criteria. Here are five essential ones, though there are others: blind loyalty to a leader who’s really more of a national father figure; belief that the leader is the state; belief that opposition to the leader is opposition to the state, and thus treason; conviction (instilled or ignited by the leader) that the source of the problems facing the good wholesome ethnic majority is some Other or collection of Others who must be ostracized if not banished; agreement that the rules and constraints of democratic order are sometimes useful and should be obeyed as long as one can obey them and win, because doing so confers a certain legitimacy, but if they have to be cast aside to hold power, then cast aside they must be. These principles animate every fascist regime in human history. They are at the heart of Trumpism, and they have drawn many more adherents than I’d have thought possible in this country."

I wonder if the average German citizen of the mid '30s felt the same as me?  But not in my country, and not in 2016!  How blind was I???  One thing trumpies tell me is that there is a huge number of people who yearn for an authority figure to simply tell them what to do and how to do it.  The religious (all organized religions work this way, especially christianity) are trained for this type of leadership from the start.  That the nazi way of doing things found such a huge following still astounds me!!  But there it is...................

He goes on to say:
"We, however, did (voted him in). And now that that impulse has been awakened, putting it back to bed will be the work of a generation. Or two. The main thing that has to happen is that the system has to work well for enough working- and middle-class people again such that neo-fascism’s allures are diminished."

I do hope this nazi way of thinking (or not thinking) can be put to bed.  Can this country live long enough for the younger generation to put us back on a track to become an actual republic?  I hope so. 

BTW, this is from Michael Tomasky. 

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on December 11, 2020, 01:18:22 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on December 11, 2020, 12:36:56 PM
Sometimes there aren't two sides to a story--not two legit sides.  Trump is a glaring example.  He has no legitimate side to his story.  This headline caught my attention:  Trump Just Broke Through the Last Level of Neo-Fascism.
One big difference between Hitler and Trump is that for a while Hitler actually delivered. You can still drive the Autobahn. All Trump did was pump up a disillusioned workforce (whose jobs were moved offshore) by telling them they were great again while blaming immigrants while he and his buddies (and plenty of Dems too) keep stealing their tax money and futures.
I would guess that as the climate continues to get hotter than we can even imagine, a social democracy with controlled capitalism will rise up as the boomers die off. Corporate officials worried about next quarter's profit are not gonna save us.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 11, 2020, 01:31:36 PM
(https://i.redd.it/3sy3iepaif461.png)

(https://i.redd.it/56kdyxo8q6461.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 11, 2020, 04:03:11 PM
Quote from: Cassia on December 11, 2020, 01:18:22 PM
One big difference between Hitler and Trump is that for a while Hitler actually delivered. You can still drive the Autobahn. All Trump did was pump up a disillusioned workforce (whose jobs were moved offshore) by telling them they were great again while blaming immigrants while he and his buddies (and plenty of Dems too) keep stealing their tax money and futures.
I would guess that as the climate continues to get hotter than we can even imagine, a social democracy with controlled capitalism will rise up as the boomers die off. Corporate officials worried about next quarter's profit are not gonna save us.


Well we know now, who you voted for in 1932.  But no, Mussolini didn't make the trains run on time (that was his PR department).  Did you drive a VW Bug (Fuhrer vehicle) to all the hippie protests?  Funny how former Christian cultists have moved over to the Beijing Biden cult.  If Biden serves kool-aide at the inaugural, I wouldn't drink it if I were you ;-)  Every American is part of a different branch of the People's Temple of Rev Jim Jones.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 11, 2020, 04:04:29 PM
Quote from: Cassia on December 11, 2020, 12:32:28 PM
Trump's own tweets are all the "media" I need.

Agreed.  All Presidential statements need to be laundered by MSM and CIA ;-)  Trump tweets as FDR does fireside chats on radio.  Because the newspapers hated FDR.

Cult followers will murder their own children on orders from the cult leader.  Being apolitical, my daughter is safe.

Pick on Texas if you must.  It is big enough and man enough to take it.  But I still hate New England, New York, West Coast.  They are deplorable ;-)

"SILENCE PLEBS: GOOGLE DECIDES YOUR PRESIDENT" ... actually Youtube.  Youtube works for Google.  Google works for CIA (same as Amazon, Wikipedia, Facebook).  Every legitimate office holder in the US is approved of by the CIA or they don't survive a trip to Dallas.

"FORTY FOUR STATES NOW DISPUTING THE ELECTION, 126 GOP REPS SIGN ON REJECTING BIDEN, SUPPORT TRUMP" ... not counting the 4 swing states being sued.  That leaves only 6 states not signed up for the new civil war.  See what happens with hippies overdose with Acid?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on December 11, 2020, 07:48:23 PM
The Supreme Court just rejected Texas' suit to overturn the battleground state votes. Even a Republican stacked Supreme Court won't take this shit seriously. Well, the coup attempt is dead. I think I can finally relax now. Part of me hopes Trump refuses to leave so we can see him physically dragged out.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on December 11, 2020, 08:06:26 PM
Quote from: Cassia on December 11, 2020, 01:18:22 PM
One big difference between Hitler and Trump is that for a while Hitler actually delivered. You can still drive the Autobahn. All Trump did was pump up a disillusioned workforce (whose jobs were moved offshore) by telling them they were great again while blaming immigrants while he and his buddies (and plenty of Dems too) keep stealing their tax money and futures.
I would guess that as the climate continues to get hotter than we can even imagine, a social democracy with controlled capitalism will rise up as the boomers die off. Corporate officials worried about next quarter's profit are not gonna save us.

I had not thought about that.  Yeah, Hitler did get stuff done.  Took Germany out of the depression and made it function well, once again.  That makes our country even stupider than the Germans!  If one is not of the 1% group, trump has not done shit for you.  He has actually hurt them in many ways.  They don't care, he is still the cult leader.  Too stupid to live.................
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 11, 2020, 08:51:59 PM
So, you admire Hitler too then?  Interesting ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on December 11, 2020, 09:01:38 PM
Well get ready for a fun ride then.  On January 21st we're going to have the first time in this country's history where the President thinks he is genetically superior to the Vice President.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on December 11, 2020, 09:02:10 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on December 11, 2020, 08:06:26 PM
I had not thought about that.  Yeah, Hitler did get stuff done.  Took Germany out of the depression and made it function well, once again.  That makes our country even stupider than the Germans!  If one is not of the 1% group, trump has not done shit for you.  He has actually hurt them in many ways.  They don't care, he is still the cult leader.  Too stupid to live.................

The German's also didn't have the benefit of history to learn from. They were the first to make their mistakes. The Americans who want their orange dictator know history and want to repeat it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on December 11, 2020, 09:03:22 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 11, 2020, 09:01:38 PM
Well get ready for a fun ride then.  On January 21st we're going to have the first time in this country's history where the President thinks he is genetically superior to the Vice President.

Is that why he selected her? Because he's a white supremacist? Can you make a single post without sounding like an idiot?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on December 11, 2020, 09:10:49 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 11, 2020, 09:03:22 PM
Is that why he selected her? Because he's a white supremacist? Can you make a single post without sounding like an idiot?
Growing up poor and Hispanic, I cannot count the number of white progressives who thought they were better than the people they were trying to help.  Conservatives say "you need god".  Progressives say "I am god".
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on December 11, 2020, 09:19:39 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 11, 2020, 09:10:49 PM
Growing up poor and Hispanic, I cannot count the number of white progressives who thought they were better than the people they were trying to help.  Conservatives say "you need god".  Progressives say "I am god".

Okay... So "white" equals "racist" now? Funny how you assume fault on Biden and Harris without evidence, but you also assume Trump is innocent, despite evidence of the contrary. But you're totally not a Conservative.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on December 11, 2020, 09:34:50 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 11, 2020, 09:19:39 PM
Okay... So "white" equals "racist" now? Funny how you assume fault on Biden and Harris without evidence, but you also assume Trump is innocent, despite evidence of the contrary. But you're totally not a Conservative.

There is one accurate statement in your sentence, and it is that I am not a conservative.  You assume that since I'm not a liberal that I must be conservative, because there are only two types of people in the world and anyone who isn't with you is against you.

The fault is yours, not mine.  There are more than two options.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on December 11, 2020, 09:53:12 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 11, 2020, 09:34:50 PM
There is one accurate statement in your sentence, and it is that I am not a conservative.  You assume that since I'm not a liberal that I must be conservative, because there are only two types of people in the world and anyone who isn't with you is against you.

The fault is yours, not mine.  There are more than two options.

There are no assumptions on my part. You literally said that you knew white Liberals who were racists, and assumed that Biden is also a racist. But Trump isn't a racist, because he's Conservative.

So to you...

White + Liberal = racist

White + Conservative = ally

You're a closet Conservative. Just be honest with yourself. You defend Trump at every turn and criticize Biden based on intuition and heresay. You're not in the middle.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on December 11, 2020, 10:20:05 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 11, 2020, 09:01:38 PM
Well get ready for a fun ride then.  On January 21st we're going to have the first time in this country's history where the President thinks he is genetically superior to the Vice President.
You really are a brain dead piece of shit, aren't you.  I can see that you and trump are simply peas in a pod.  You are what is wrong with this country--and I realize you don't care; you clearly are amoral.  Ethics and morality, much less compassion and caring are just too hard for you. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on December 11, 2020, 11:41:17 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on December 11, 2020, 10:20:05 PM
You really are a brain dead piece of shit, aren't you.  I can see that you and trump are simply peas in a pod.  You are what is wrong with this country--and I realize you don't care; you clearly are amoral.  Ethics and morality, much less compassion and caring are just too hard for you.

I know I've been doing a lot of name calling, but I don't think I'd call him immoral. I just don't think he's thought through his beliefs as thoroughly as he thinks. He recently mentioned he's Hispanic in another thread, and that confuses the Hell out of me. People like him and Munch, both part of minority groups that are objects of contempt for Conservatives, licking their boots. You guys realize they only like you because you give legitimacy to their policies, right? They wouldn't hesitate to steamroll over you as soon as your usefulness was done.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 11, 2020, 11:53:23 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 11, 2020, 07:48:23 PMPart of me hopes Trump refuses to leave so we can see him physically dragged out.
Sadly, he said he'll be at a Trump property that day (probably to funnel the last taxpayer funds he can, he'll need it for those lawsuits).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on December 12, 2020, 12:06:56 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 11, 2020, 11:41:17 PM
I know I've been doing a lot of name calling, but I don't think I'd call him immoral. I just don't think he's thought through his beliefs as thoroughly as he thinks. He recently mentioned he's Hispanic in another thread, and that confuses the Hell out of me. People like him and Munch, both part of minority groups that are objects of contempt for Conservatives, licking their boots. You guys realize they only like you because you give legitimacy to their policies, right? They wouldn't hesitate to steamroll over you as soon as your usefulness was done.
Maybe immoral is too strong.  Maybe not.  Amoral is probably more accurate.  And remember that trump just about doubled his Latino votes over 2016.  No, I don't understand that either.  He and Baruch are much more knowledgeable and of a higher intellectual plane--and they like to let that be known in just about every post.  Both are blowhard assholes.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on December 12, 2020, 12:12:59 AM
Jason Harvestdancer has hit the nail on the head. Feeling inferior. That liberals just virtue signal and don't really care. In fact, pretending to care makes them feel superior. This is what Trump tapped in to. Look at Trump. He doesn't use big words. Obviously flawed, selfish and simple. Hard to feel inferior to him. That is his big draw.

Decades of 'uppity' Dem leaders. Carter was a Nuclear Engineer. Clintons were Yale law. Obama was Harvard law. Reagan was an actor. Bush Jr presented like a Texas oil man/good ole boy who could barely put a sentence together (even though he was Ivy league.)

White males are represented on TV as dumbasses always needing correction by their smart wives. Just as the economy changed from manufacturing to some kind of shitty service/gig economy. They just wanna be great again. Like their fathers who won wars. And all them gawd-dam mexican illegals are taking our jobs and are on welfare and we gotta hear fvckin Spanish at the bus station. And it is Merry Christmas, godam all you Jews and atheists we always said merry christmas, and is it still "the white house" with that jigga-boob in therea and look at all these fags kissing on AIDS drug commercials, what the hell is happening to this country..USA, USA, USA....

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on December 12, 2020, 12:17:46 AM
Quote from: Cassia on December 12, 2020, 12:12:59 AM
Jason Harvestdancer has hit the nail on the head. Feeling inferior. That liberals just virtue signal and don't really care. In fact, pretending to care makes them feel superior. This is what Trump tapped in to. Look at Trump. He doesn't use big words. Obviously flawed, selfish and simple. Hard to feel inferior to him. That is his big draw.

Decades of 'uppity' Dem leaders. Carter was a Nuclear Engineer. Clintons were Yale law. Obama was Harvard law. Reagan was an actor. Bush Jr presented like a Texas oil man/good ole boy who could barely put a sentence together (even though he was Ivy league.)

White males are represented on TV as dumbasses always needing correction by their smart wives. Just as the economy changed from manufacturing to some kind of shitty service/gig economy. They just wanna be great again. Like their fathers who won wars. And all them gawd-dam mexican illegals are taking our jobs and are on welfare and we gotta hear fvckin Spanish at the bus station. And it is Merry Christmas, godam all you Jews and atheists we always said merry christmas, and is it still "the white house" with that jigga-boob in therea and look at all these fags kissing on AIDS drug commercials, what the hell is happening to this country..USA, USA, USA....

Goddamn. I think that turn gave me whiplash. lol
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 12, 2020, 01:06:11 AM
Quote from: Cassia on December 12, 2020, 12:12:59 AMLook at Trump. He doesn't use big words. Obviously flawed, selfish and simple. Hard to feel inferior to him.
Ask Ted Cruz for his strategy, LMAO
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 12, 2020, 02:57:16 AM
Desperate Trumplings claim that imaginary states support Trump steal (https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/12/11/imaginary-states-new-nevada-new-california-file-brief-supporting-texas-lawsuit-to-overturn-election/?sh=4cd925fd24a8)

I believe the story ends with the judge responding that imaginary states can indeed win elections - but only imaginary ones.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on December 12, 2020, 08:17:33 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 12, 2020, 12:17:46 AM
Goddamn. I think that turn gave me whiplash. lol
It does turn real bad very fast. And people like Jason should be careful of what they wish for. White supremacy only lurks in the shadows because liberals enforce our just laws and will not tolerate it. We have recently seen how conservatives will tolerate it. They wanna save the monuments to traitors and those who fought for slavery. In fact many think it's probably alright. If this attempted coup happens there will be little that liberals could do as "making America great again" spirals into oppression and racism and hate of everything non-white, just as it was before. And after all homosexuality is an abomination, right?. Their bible is full of examples of genocide and persecution. They want to get back to doing god's work.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on December 12, 2020, 08:21:21 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 11, 2020, 09:53:12 PM
So to you...

White + Liberal = racist

White + Conservative = ally

That's all you got from that?  Wow.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on December 12, 2020, 08:36:11 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 12, 2020, 08:21:21 AM
That's all you got from that?  Wow.
I don't know if you are a student of history or not. I am always surprised how often it repeats and how many many fascist boxes have been checked already. Most people are not radicals and they stand on the sidelines. And then the shit hits the fan.

So no, not all conservatives are racists. But they will enable/unleash racists. They stick with the party no matter what they do. We are seeing that now.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on December 12, 2020, 08:39:52 AM
This thread:
Me: They both suck.
Blackleaf: Both?  That includes Biden.  You just said Biden sucks.  That means you support Trump.  You're a conservative Republican.

Exactly the same as:
Me: They both suck.
Alt-right: Both?  That includes Trump.  You just said Trump sucks.  That means you support Biden.  You're a progressive Democrat.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 12, 2020, 09:52:01 AM
Quote from: Cassia on December 12, 2020, 08:36:11 AM
I don't know if you are a student of history or not. I am always surprised how often it repeats and how many many fascist boxes have been checked already. Most people are not radicals and they stand on the sidelines. And then the shit hits the fan.

So no, not all conservatives are racists. But they will enable/unleash racists. They stick with the party no matter what they do. We are seeing that now.


The Ominous Parallels .. Leonard Peikoff (1982) by a disciple of Ayn Rand.  You definitely seem to fit the Randian profile ;-)  There are Nazis under every bed!! ... if you are Jewish.

Liberals surrender (lie back and think of England).  How is Neville working our for you?  Churchill was a conservative of a very regressive type.  Chamberlain was the progressive, the losing fool.  Leftists hate everything and everyone (see mental illness categories).  Liberals are Leftists who hate everyone who doesn't virtue signal the same way they do.

“This decision establishes a precedent that says states can violate the U.S. Constitution and not be held accountable,” ... yes, states rights are a Democrat thing, so is slavery of Blacks on plantations or as welfare mothers in ghettos.  Dems liked the SCOTUS when it was "slaves aren't citizens and can be hunted by bounty hunters outside of the slave states" but didn't like it when Scalia et al handed the 2000 election to the Shrub.  So is SCOTUS good for anything?  Just another flaming sack of shit, same as the rest of the US government.

What next?  Secession and kinetic war (not propaganda war).  Right handed Nazis vs Left handed Nazis.  Need popcorn?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 12, 2020, 09:54:06 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 11, 2020, 07:48:23 PM
The Supreme Court just rejected Texas' suit to overturn the battleground state votes. Even a Republican stacked Supreme Court won't take this shit seriously. Well, the coup attempt is dead. I think I can finally relax now. Part of me hopes Trump refuses to leave so we can see him physically dragged out.

Hope you enjoy the civil war then.  Americans aren't civil .. so something of a paradox.  The Dems are targets at the Repub shooting range?  Hope their purses are bulletproof.

===

"...the events of this year’s presidential election were “transparently orchestrated” by “Marxist elements within the Democratic Party and their Marxist allies in foreign governments.”" ... clear to anyone not Marxist ;-)

"SECESSION? TEXAS GOP CALLS FOR NEW 'UNION OF STATES THAT WILL ABIDE BY CONSTITUTION' IN WAKE OF SUPREME COURT DEFEAT" ... abolitionist Republican New England wanted to secede first.  But the conservative Democrat South did it first. This time however it is the Republicans who will secede ... no Dixie for them, but ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy6AOGRsR80

States rights in 1860 ... Lincoln not allowed on the ballot in  Southern states.  2020+ potentially means in Texas et al, Dem candidates aren't allowed to run for office ;-)  This will backfire totally.  Also states free to change election law anyway they want, like don't let Whites vote.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 12, 2020, 10:01:33 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 11, 2020, 09:03:22 PM
Is that why he selected her? Because he's a white supremacist? Can you make a single post without sounding like an idiot?

Harris isn't an African-American, no more than Obama was.  She is 1/2 Indian, 1/2 mixed Jamaican White/Black.  But the Black part is very dilute.  With Obama, his father was African, not African-American, his mother was mixed American White/Black, but her Black part was very dilute (she passed as White).

Yes, we are virtuous because all our people are Black, Gay, Atheist, Female, Trans etc.  Why, because he hate all White, Straight, Theist, Male, Normal etc.  That is how the Left rolls, they hate everything.  If the US was mostly Black, they would hate Blacks and love Whites etc.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 12, 2020, 10:02:23 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 11, 2020, 09:02:10 PM
The German's also didn't have the benefit of history to learn from. They were the first to make their mistakes. The Americans who want their orange dictator know history and want to repeat it.

The Germans didn't know the Kaiser?  That must be news to them!  The Kaiser was the proto-Hitler, he approved sending Lenin to Petrograd to destroy Russia.  So glad that the US is G-d's chosen country, liberals are G-d's chosen people ;-)  The US defeated the Axis all by itself, with only pink helmeted soldiers, sailors and airmen ;-) 

Fact is, communist Americans were traitors while Stalin was allied to Hitler, or just traitors in general.  Fact is the Bush family were traitors when they had factories in Nazi occupied Europe, when they acted as bag men to transfer Wall Street money to Hitler's 1932 election campaign.  Fact is, Democrats were both Leftists and Rightist under FDR (Big Tent) ... both halves being enemies of middle America.  But as Rumsfeld said, you go to WW II with the deplorables you have.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjt452YzkM

The Zimmerman telegram, another bad German idea ... did you know that John Luc Picard was Lenin? ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKhgrCDkm0s

How has the DNC made treason with China to give US territory to China?  Or maybe given Texas etc back to Mexico?

Liberals/Communists know a funny kind of fantasy as history.  Only Hitler was the only enemy in WW II.  Stalin was never allied to Hitler.  The KMT in China was never allied to Hitler.  Germany wasn't the enemy (or why is E Germany is part of the Warsaw Pact?).  Who was reading the NYT in 1940?  US atheist socialist Jews ;-)  Who helped finance the Bolshevik revolution?  Adam Schiff's GGfather.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 12, 2020, 10:04:16 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 11, 2020, 09:01:38 PM
Well get ready for a fun ride then.  On January 21st we're going to have the first time in this country's history where the President thinks he is genetically superior to the Vice President.

Correct, but senile Biden has also recently implied he is the VP and she is the PP ;-)  Don't worry, CIA will soon get rid of Biden to get Harris in the big seat ;-))  Harris was barely born in the US, her parents weren't American at the time, and had to stop here for her mother to give birth.  Good reason why all people born here, should not be citizens.  Same as Obama being American just because he was born in Hawaii (territory) or McCain being an American just because he was born in Panama (canal territory).  Politically, Obama followed his Kenyan father, not any American archetype.  He is anti-British, Anti-American and Anti-White.  Had I known, I would have still voted for him twice ;-)  I wanted him to destroy White America, and he is still working on that behind the scenes.  Wakanda!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 12, 2020, 10:13:54 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 11, 2020, 11:41:17 PM
I know I've been doing a lot of name calling, but I don't think I'd call him immoral. I just don't think he's thought through his beliefs as thoroughly as he thinks. He recently mentioned he's Hispanic in another thread, and that confuses the Hell out of me. People like him and Munch, both part of minority groups that are objects of contempt for Conservatives, licking their boots. You guys realize they only like you because you give legitimacy to their policies, right? They wouldn't hesitate to steamroll over you as soon as your usefulness was done.

All Hispanics are Democrats, who hate Christianity?  Really?  You haven't been able to keep them on the Dem plantation was well as the Blacks.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 12, 2020, 10:15:28 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on December 12, 2020, 12:06:56 AM
Maybe immoral is too strong.  Maybe not.  Amoral is probably more accurate.  And remember that trump just about doubled his Latino votes over 2016.  No, I don't understand that either.  He and Baruch are much more knowledgeable and of a higher intellectual plane--and they like to let that be known in just about every post.  Both are blowhard assholes.

Libs are crybabies .. who need their diapers changed, just like Joe ;-)  I have a connection to Hispanic culture too.  Not part of the latte drinking Californicating master race.  Though I have lived in Cali twice.  N California, particularly the Bay Area and Silicon Valley, are the most bourgeois places imaginable.  It is no surprise that most people posting here either live there, are should live there.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 12, 2020, 10:17:54 AM
Quote from: Cassia on December 12, 2020, 08:17:33 AM
It does turn real bad very fast. And people like Jason should be careful of what they wish for. White supremacy only lurks in the shadows because liberals enforce our just laws and will not tolerate it. We have recently seen how conservatives will tolerate it. They wanna save the monuments to traitors and those who fought for slavery. In fact many think it's probably alright. If this attempted coup happens there will be little that liberals could do as "making America great again" spirals into oppression and racism and hate of everything non-white, just as it was before. And after all homosexuality is an abomination, right?. Their bible is full of examples of genocide and persecution. They want to get back to doing god's work.

I want Black Hispanic supremacy, so all Whites and Anglos are eliminated (Dischordianism R Us).  For a liberal, only White Straight dictatorship is bad.  Too bad Hitler wasn't gay and Black or their (I am fighting baby Hitler) brains would explode.

Why are you Liberal? ... OMB
Why are you Feminist? ... OMB
Why are you Democrat? ...  OMB
Why are you Gay? ... OMB
Why are you Black? ... OMB
Why are you Trans? ... OMB

One track minds, very small, must be N gage ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 12, 2020, 12:11:21 PM
(https://i.redd.it/4262vm7mwq461.png)

"law-abiding" lol
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 12, 2020, 12:20:16 PM
Law abiding druggies and traitors?  Lol.  Democrats are so, law abiding, ask Beijing Biden ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY

In September 2019, someone tried to assassinate this fired prosecutor, with arsenic poisoning.  Hillary?

In the end it comes down to .. Dems kill Repubs, Repubs kill Dems.  It is a good start!  Wish the civil war had continued every year since 1861.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on December 12, 2020, 03:56:35 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 12, 2020, 08:39:52 AM
This thread:
Me: They both suck.
Blackleaf: Both?  That includes Biden.  You just said Biden sucks.  That means you support Trump.  You're a conservative Republican.

Exactly the same as:
Me: They both suck.
Alt-right: Both?  That includes Trump.  You just said Trump sucks.  That means you support Biden.  You're a progressive Democrat.

The problem is you don't say that both suck. You say that Biden sucks, and you defend Trump from criticism. That's about as far from neutral as you can get. Seriously, go back through your old posts. Find one instance where you either defend Biden or criticize Trump. I'll wait.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on December 12, 2020, 05:59:03 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 12, 2020, 03:56:35 PM
The problem is you don't say that both suck. You say that Biden sucks, and you defend Trump from criticism. That's about as far from neutral as you can get. Seriously, go back through your old posts. Find one instance where you either defend Biden or criticize Trump. I'll wait.
Clearly, Jason is a trumpie.  He walks like a trumpie, he talks like a trumpie, he is a duck.......er, trumpie.  Therefore, and just as clearly, ethics and morality play little part in his consideration of things. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on December 12, 2020, 06:04:01 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 12, 2020, 03:56:35 PM
The problem is you don't say that both suck. You say that Biden sucks, and you defend Trump from criticism. That's about as far from neutral as you can get. Seriously, go back through your old posts. Find one instance where you either defend Biden or criticize Trump. I'll wait.

Thank you for admitting you have no idea what I've said at any time.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on December 12, 2020, 06:07:20 PM
Now that Trump is on the way out, the time is ripe to figuring out what to do with former Trump supporters.  They shouldn't be allowed to get away with supporting Trump the way they did.  One problem is clearly identifying them.  There are some who supported neither, and they shouldn't get caught up in the dragnets.

But for actual Trump supporters, there's slightly over 74 million people that need to be chastised and corrected.  Is mandatory reeducation sufficient, or do we need more severe measures?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on December 12, 2020, 06:16:22 PM
So I've been accused of always posting negatively about Biden and always posting positively about Trump.  Only half of that statement is true in fact.

Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on July 03, 2020, 09:46:46 PM
So, now that the Democrats have picked their candidate, we are supposed to pretend the third parties don't exist and concentrate ust on these two.

Let's have it,  stump for your preferred candidate.

Personally I think replacing Trump with Biden is like sitting your pants and then changing your shirt.

Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on July 04, 2020, 03:32:51 PM
#ImWithHer

Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on July 05, 2020, 08:52:54 AM
Actually I do vote, regularly, third party.

Of course "this is the most important election evar" just like in 1972, 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012, and 2016, so we can't afford to consider third parties.

Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on July 18, 2020, 04:14:40 PM
I suppose since third parties in general and the Libertarian Party in particular are so bad I have to choose between a mentally challenged senile pedophile sex offender and a mentally challenged senile pedophile sex offender.  Which senile sex offender is better?  I really don't know.

See, the reason the accusation is made though is because anything good said about Side A is saying something bad about Side B, and anything good said about side B is saying something bad about Side A.  In other words, the accusation is full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 12, 2020, 06:27:04 PM
Michigan electors to use police escort to provide security from "law-abiding" Trumpies. (https://www.businessinsider.com/michigan-electors-have-a-police-escort-ahead-of-mondays-vote-2020-12)

Ever get so mad that your guy lost the election that you tried to have him installed anyway and then threatened to "die for him" when that didn't work?

Oh and by the way, some colossal idiot thinks it's awfully mean of you to say that these are bad people.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 12, 2020, 09:17:58 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 12, 2020, 06:07:20 PM
Now that Trump is on the way out, the time is ripe to figuring out what to do with former Trump supporters.  They shouldn't be allowed to get away with supporting Trump the way they did.  One problem is clearly identifying them.  There are some who supported neither, and they shouldn't get caught up in the dragnets.

But for actual Trump supporters, there's slightly over 74 million people that need to be chastised and corrected.  Is mandatory reeducation sufficient, or do we need more severe measures?

You don't do Dischordianism very well.  They don't want to kill Trumps, they just want to make them all gay ;-)  Heard in US army special forces, they were making soldiers wear high heals to make them more sympathetic to women (who don't wear high heels in combat either).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on December 12, 2020, 11:28:36 PM
Ack, you make me want to abuse my mod powers to spell "heel" correctly.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 13, 2020, 07:49:34 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 12, 2020, 11:28:36 PM
Ack, you make me want to abuse my mod powers to spell "heel" correctly.

News is just entertaining or infuriating rumors passed around as fact.  The original "reality TV" was the evening TV news.  Pawn Stars wasn't the first "reality TV" that is fake.  in all cases, the point is advertising, not to inform the public aka morons.  The rumor about Green Berets in high heels I heard from a source more authoritative than CNN (not that it takes much to do that).

Jason, you are fired ... that post had two typos!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on December 13, 2020, 06:42:33 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 12, 2020, 06:27:04 PM
Ever get so mad that your guy lost the election that you tried to have him installed anyway and then threatened to "die for him" when that didn't work?
Hey, the Venn diagram between Trump's knuckledraggers and anti-maskers has a pretty large overlap, so they probably will die for him anyway.  Gasping for breath on a gurney in a parking garage because the hospitals are full already.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 13, 2020, 08:26:26 PM
Quote from: trdsf on December 13, 2020, 06:42:33 PMHey, the Venn diagram between Trump's knuckledraggers and anti-maskers has a pretty large overlap, so they probably will die for him anyway.  Gasping for breath on a gurney in a parking garage because the hospitals are full already.
I really wish it were otherwise.  Absolutely terrible way to go, lingering and suffering for weeks.  And the added indignity of being behind glass, away from one's loved ones.  I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

It's bewildering that so many refused to realize the problem and so many in charge just didn't care or actively sought to make make it worse with terrible advice and balking at sane policy.  Living in unreality and dying in despair.  Now there's a bumper sticker.

I'll be so glad when this mess is behind us.  The crazies are liable to kick and scream about any treatment, as is their nature.  But the sane among us, along with sane leadership, will have to do our best to make things better regardless and endure the crazies, though it stretches the limits of compassion (https://abc7news.com/coronavirus-emergency-room-doctor-nichols-twitter/8454165/).

But we won't forget what has happened these past 4 years and who was complicit.  I have no illusions that justice will be done, but I think we can and should at least try to keep these - I believe Charlie Chaplin called them brutes - from power in the future.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 13, 2020, 09:16:42 PM
If Obama was still President, Covid wouldn't have happened, or because he is the world's best doctor?  Presidents don't amount to much, even in politics.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on December 14, 2020, 05:36:03 PM
Biden wins again.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 14, 2020, 05:37:39 PM
The world and the American people lose again, any time a politician wins (an angel "loses" his wings).

Funny how Dems contend that the Electoral College is invalid, but it is OK if it matches what they wish.  Funny how they oppose a limit of 9 in SCOTUS, except when it matches what they wish ;-)  Exactly like a football/soccer game .. if the ref makes a call in your team's favor, the ref is good, if not the ref is bad.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on December 14, 2020, 06:05:38 PM
Every time I think I'm gonna wake up back in the jungle. Every minute we stay in this room we get weaker. Each time I look around, the walls move in a little tighter. I've never seen a country so broken-up, ripped apart. We swim in spoiled mother's milk.
-forgive my artistic license with a certain movie script
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on December 14, 2020, 06:18:53 PM
This has been a lesson for all politicians to see, though I doubt they will SEE. That so many people are so frustrated and sickened by politicians they thought trump would be an improvement, overlooking all his hostilities and insults to people under him...(one can only imagine what he is like to a waitress or waiter) that they chain themselves to his madhouse wagon, get taken for a ride and enjoy every minute of it, is not so much a statement on Trump as it is the desperation of many Americans.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 14, 2020, 07:56:08 PM
Trump is a typical New Yorker I think.  Why haven't all the NYC people offed themselves?  Because they enjoy being assholes to other people, especially to other New Yorkers.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 14, 2020, 07:56:54 PM
Quote from: Cassia on December 14, 2020, 06:05:38 PM
Every time I think I'm gonna wake up back in the jungle. Every minute we stay in this room we get weaker. Each time I look around, the walls move in a little tighter. I've never seen a country so broken-up, ripped apart. We swim in spoiled mother's milk.
-forgive my artistic license with a certain movie script

The world is a jungle.  Only cats try to convince prey that they are harmless or asleep ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on December 14, 2020, 09:55:26 PM
Quote from: Baruch on December 14, 2020, 07:56:08 PM
Trump is a typical New Yorker I think.  Why haven't all the NYC people offed themselves?  Because they enjoy being assholes to other people, especially to other New Yorkers.

He's a typical New York City Democrat.  That he's at such odds with the current Democratic Party says a lot more about the party than him.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on December 14, 2020, 11:28:12 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 14, 2020, 09:55:26 PM
He's a typical New York City Democrat.  That he's at such odds with the current Democratic Party says a lot more about the party than him.

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/030/710/dd0.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 14, 2020, 11:50:00 PM
Donald Trump: the face of the American Democratic Party LOL
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 14, 2020, 11:57:26 PM
Bill Barr put in his resignation, effective Dec 23.  Well, at least someone will have a merry Christmas this year.

We'll miss his...well, everything. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eric-holder-william-barr-is-unfit-to-be-attorney-general/2019/12/11/99882092-1c55-11ea-87f7-f2e91143c60d_story.html)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 15, 2020, 05:12:18 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 14, 2020, 11:50:00 PM
Donald Trump: the face of the American Democratic Party LOL

A Democrat most of his life, as Hillary was a Young Republican.  Y'all voted for lemons, since 1788.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 15, 2020, 05:13:51 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 14, 2020, 09:55:26 PM
He's a typical New York City Democrat.  That he's at such odds with the current Democratic Party says a lot more about the party than him.

I wouldn't be specific to his real party, he is a plutocrat same as the Republicans.  Shape shifting aliens are among us ;-)

He is a typical NYC Democrat in the sense that he is pro-Jewish and pro-Israel.  But the Democrats will aid the Palestinians in solving the Jewish problem permanently.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on December 15, 2020, 08:35:52 AM
Quote from: Cassia on December 12, 2020, 12:12:59 AM
Jason Harvestdancer has hit the nail on the head. Feeling inferior. That liberals just virtue signal and don't really care. In fact, pretending to care makes them feel superior. This is what Trump tapped in to. Look at Trump. He doesn't use big words. Obviously flawed, selfish and simple. Hard to feel inferior to him. That is his big draw.

Decades of 'uppity' Dem leaders. Carter was a Nuclear Engineer. Clintons were Yale law. Obama was Harvard law. Reagan was an actor. Bush Jr presented like a Texas oil man/good ole boy who could barely put a sentence together (even though he was Ivy league.)

White males are represented on TV as dumbasses always needing correction by their smart wives. Just as the economy changed from manufacturing to some kind of shitty service/gig economy. They just wanna be great again. Like their fathers who won wars. And all them gawd-dam mexican illegals are taking our jobs and are on welfare and we gotta hear fvckin Spanish at the bus station. And it is Merry Christmas, godam all you Jews and atheists we always said merry christmas, and is it still "the white house" with that jigga-boob in therea and look at all these fags kissing on AIDS drug commercials, what the hell is happening to this country..USA, USA, USA....

This is exactly what happened where I live. And they had another trump card. Social democratic parties, old central parties...they were all 'Westernised' and so anti-original culture. They created a theatrical winning back of a new Ottoman style republic. And the boxes got checked and checked. They have changed the system. We have gone 100 years back in the last two decades. We live in an theocratic oligarchy now.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 15, 2020, 09:50:34 AM
That could still happen to us, too.  And it's not any less likely now than it was a couple months ago.  We've had our voting rights come under assault and endured a serious push for sham elections.  We won that battle, but we have to win every battle to maintain a democracy.  The enemies of democracy only have to win once.  Semper vigilans.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 15, 2020, 09:57:04 AM
(https://preview.redd.it/l936x665s8561.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=2be53749ced5de4096149ba6a7d437a04fc0a934)

Man, these people live in their own world.

And you can always tell when right-wingers are BSing you because there are all these big, provocative claims and nothing backing it up but one's say-so.  All you gotta do is ask em for evidence and they gish gallop to another topic or run away for weeks.  Thank goodness we don't have anyone like that here.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on December 15, 2020, 10:16:42 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 15, 2020, 09:57:04 AM
(https://i.redd.it/l936x665s8561.jpg)

Sounds like someone is terrified.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 15, 2020, 10:47:48 AM
Yes, people fear Democrats.  They also fear Marxists and Chinese invasion.  Years ago, a less stable friend of mine, he had a vision (not dream) of Chinese troops in the US supervising collection of "their" food from a nearby farm.  We were OK moving 60,000 Somalis to Minneapolis.  Nobody here fears Republicans, do they? ;-p
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 15, 2020, 10:49:30 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 15, 2020, 09:50:34 AM
That could still happen to us, too.  And it's not any less likely now than it was a couple months ago.  We've had our voting rights come under assault and endured a serious push for sham elections.  We won that battle, but we have to win every battle to maintain a democracy.  The enemies of democracy only have to win once.  Semper vigilans.

Dems won what?  Stupidity contest?  Voting is for sheeple.  Yes, the Catholics are coming, they will set up a theocracy, with castles and knights oh my!

Now-president-elect Biden is setting up his cabinet.  Lots of women from the Obama administration.  But no communists or anarchists.  BLM and Anti-Fa are put away back in the toy boxes they came from.  If Biden gets inaugurated ... how will Biden deal with those among them who refuse to go away, who believe the false promises of a 50 years of corruption politician?  Leftists are useful idiots to put Goldman-Sachs back in power.

"SIX SWING STATES and New Mexico Cast Electors For Trump AND Biden, Contested Election?" .. don't count your chickens before they hatch, President Kamala ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on December 15, 2020, 12:22:07 PM
Yeah, remember when they said those things about Obama? Remember when he took our guns and turned America into a Communistic government? Oh, that didn't happen? Funny, they seemed so sure it would happen. Eh, I'm sure the Socialistic Communistic Democrats will get around to it this time.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on December 15, 2020, 05:25:14 PM
Thom Hartman just said (tongue in cheek, I think) that in a final bid for victory Trump will change his name to Joe Biden.

;-D
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 15, 2020, 06:55:45 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 15, 2020, 12:22:07 PM
Yeah, remember when they said those things about Obama? Remember when he took our guns and turned America into a Communistic government? Oh, that didn't happen? Funny, they seemed so sure it would happen. Eh, I'm sure the Socialistic Communistic Democrats will get around to it this time.

Obama was totally evil, I saw his image (or a face similar to his) in the Jesus movie put out by Mad Max ... on the character of Satan ;-)  Dems voted for Biden because they saw his image in a piece of toast ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 15, 2020, 06:56:38 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 15, 2020, 05:25:14 PM
Thom Hartman just said (tongue in cheek, I think) that in a final bid for victory Trump will change his name to Joe Biden.

;-D

Joe is so senile, he will refer to himself at the inaugural as Donald Trump (who won the Senate seat)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on December 15, 2020, 07:06:13 PM
A story fit for anime...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpUJ8j1XIAYqzbl?format=jpg&name=medium)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpUJ8zVWMAsRpWV?format=jpg&name=medium)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpUJ9DvXcAEbj9t?format=jpg&name=medium)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpUJ9MYXUAEw59l?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 15, 2020, 07:10:51 PM
If all you do during sex is think of politics ... then you need a padded room, not a private room ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 15, 2020, 07:11:25 PM
I saw that tall tale earlier today.  I believe the general consensus is that it was an incel fanfic lol.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 15, 2020, 07:11:31 PM
Michigan Congressman Paul Mitchell leaves GOP (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/paul-mitchell-michigan-republican-trump-election-conspiracies-b1774012.html) apparently over Trump/GOP embrace of conspiracy mongering.

He's a relatively new congressman (assumed office in 2017, ran unsuccessfully in 2013 and 2014).  In 2017, he championed Trumpcare, a Republican plan to partially replace the ACA with a watered-down version that Republicans find more agreeable and coincidentally would have deprived 23 million Americans of health insurance over 10 years according to the CBO.

Ideologically, he has been very much aligned with Trump, but like many other Republicans, he's had a difficult time trying to defend Trump's words and actions.  When Trump tweeted that four congresswomen should "go back" to their country of origin (spoiler: three of them were born in the US), shortly thereafter, Mitchell was waiting to go on TV and heard trumplings parroting the slur and Mitchell reportedly asked an aide, "How do I even respond to this on TV?"

He wanted to meet with the President to address his misgivings but of course no one in the White House would see him.  And then he really got fed up with the you know, refusal to abide by democracy thing.  You know, pretending that a loser won and installing him anyway.  That was a bridge too far for him:

Quote“If Republican leaders collectively sit back and tolerate unfounded conspiracy theories and ‘stop the steal’ rallies without speaking out for our electoral process, which the Department of Homeland Security said was ‘the most secure in American history,’ our nation will be damaged. I have spoken out clearly and forcefully in opposition to these messages. However, with the leadership of the Republican Party and our Republican Conference in the House actively participating in at least some of those efforts, I fear long-term harm to our democracy,” Mr Mitchell wrote in his letter.

But none of this matters much because Mitchell isn't seeking a third term and will be leaving office soon.  So his change in political affiliation is more of a parting shot than anything substantive.  But it's worth noting because it reveals the inner frustrations of the Republicans who don't kiss the ground that Trump craps on.  They're still reachable.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 15, 2020, 07:37:57 PM
The Republicans who back Obama etc aren't Republicans.  Shapeshifters ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on December 15, 2020, 08:42:08 PM
My face as soon as the guy on Twitter mentions the miraculous shooting star: (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EB7rmQnU0AADbv1.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on December 15, 2020, 08:55:38 PM
Please ....no man would give up some pus that’s already on him over anything shy of a knife or a jar of peanut butter.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on December 15, 2020, 10:39:37 PM
The trouble with Trumples is that we can't just beam them over to the Klingon ship, where they'd be no tribble at all...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 15, 2020, 11:34:41 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 15, 2020, 10:39:37 PM
The trouble with Trumples is that we can't just beam them over to the Klingon ship, where they'd be no tribble at all...

Klingons = Republicans
Romulans = Democrats
Federation = Me, just about the only one posting here who is
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on December 16, 2020, 08:03:04 AM
Quote from: aitm on December 15, 2020, 08:55:38 PM
Please ....no man would give up some pus that%u2019s already on him over anything shy of a knife or a jar of peanut butter.

He doesn't need to do it to make up a story. It's justified as a cautionary tale. Ignoring the girl that way in that position is a necessary reference to 'the natural evil' as a man he should constantly fight, mentioned as an evidence of his strength and integrity as a 'strong' man. It's like natural code.

Come on, you have no idea about redpillians? Obviously, he is a new generation 'alpha male'. He probably has a group of younger males he often gives precious insight about life. :lol:

Don't take this the wrong way, I'd like to see you engaging one of those morons, esp. after all this talk of stupidity. They are almost all atheists by the way. You might even -can't help but- 'respect' traditionally religious people a tiny bit. Because if it continues to go that way, you are going to look for the latter with a candle in the dark as we say. :lol:
 
I'm laughing out loud mostly because I'm scared. :lol:
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on December 16, 2020, 08:26:46 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on December 16, 2020, 08:03:04 AM
He doesn't need to do it to make up a story. It's justified as a cautionary tale. Ignoring the girl that way in that position is a necessary reference to 'the natural evil' as a man he should constantly fight, mentioned as an evidence of his strength and integrity as a 'strong' man. 


Uh......sure......sure....
I fight the “evil” by not letting her get naked and on top of me in the first place. Once that happens, I don’t care if she starts singing “Jesus Loves Me”, da girl gettin it!!!!!!   ðŸ˜ˆ
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on December 16, 2020, 08:35:15 AM
Quote from: aitm on December 16, 2020, 08:26:46 AM
Uh......sure......sure....
I fight the “evil” by not letting her get naked and on top of me in the first place. Once that happens, I don’t care if she starts singing “Jesus Loves Me”, da girl gettin it!!!!!!   ðŸ˜ˆ

It seems as a traditional male figure, you are as clean as fresh snow from all that new age muck, sweety.   

Ew though...someone singing a hymn while fucking. Eew. It would put me off. :lol:
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on December 16, 2020, 09:18:30 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on December 16, 2020, 08:35:15 AM
It seems as a traditional male figure, you are as clean as fresh snow from all that new age muck, sweety.   

Ew though...someone singing a hymn while fucking. Eew. It would put me off. :lol:

You know you want me.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on December 16, 2020, 09:57:40 AM
 :toilet:
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on December 16, 2020, 10:18:08 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on December 16, 2020, 09:57:40 AM
:toilet:
Kinky....but I am not opposed...😬
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 16, 2020, 10:26:04 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on December 16, 2020, 08:35:15 AM
It seems as a traditional male figure, you are as clean as fresh snow from all that new age muck, sweety.   

Ew though...someone singing a hymn while fucking. Eew. It would put me off. :lol:

I wouldn't be surprised if you are part of a anti-male cult ;-)  So many harridans are like that today.  "I avoided Catholicism, Islam etc because I joined a flying saucer cult".
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on December 16, 2020, 10:29:33 AM
Quote from: Baruch on December 16, 2020, 10:26:04 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if you are part of a anti-male cult ;-)  So many harridans are like that today.  "I avoided Catholicism, Islam etc because I joined a flying saucer cult".

Pffft. Happy Hanukkah by the way.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 17, 2020, 01:53:37 PM
"The year when the global capitalist ruling classes did away with the illusion of democracy and reminded everyone who is actually in charge, and exactly what happens when anyone challenges them..." .. the Elite are not partisan, just pro-Elite

Validation date for EC is Jan 6, and inauguration is Jan 20.  Will Joe and Kamala still be out of jail, still be alive?  Stay tuned!

PS .. Dec 18, tomorrow, is when intelligence regarding foreign interference in the election has to be reported to the President.  EO 2018 says if there is foreign interference with a national election, the President has authority to suspend the process.  Who knows if we will ever see the contents.  We still haven't seen the truth about the 1960s assassinations or 9/11.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on December 17, 2020, 05:24:51 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on December 16, 2020, 10:29:33 AM
Pffft. Happy Hanukkah by the way.

Did y'all hear Smoky Robinson province it "cha-noo-ka"?

:-D
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on December 18, 2020, 02:10:46 AM
Neo-liberals don't deserve rights.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpgGWpaWwAEPFQV?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 18, 2020, 02:32:37 AM
An analogy I've sometimes used:

Imagine two medieval serfs toiling in muck and filth, living lives of utmost squalor.  One laments this hellish system.  The other one fantasies about how great it would be if the cruel overlord were a different race/gender.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on December 18, 2020, 03:32:07 AM
Race or gender makes no difference to me.  Politicians just need to have integrity and be fair.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 18, 2020, 09:58:46 AM
Quote from: SGOS on December 18, 2020, 03:32:07 AM
Race or gender makes no difference to me.  Politicians just need to have integrity and be fair.

Still holding your breath, while being waterboarded at Guantanamo?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on December 18, 2020, 10:59:36 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 18, 2020, 02:32:37 AM
An analogy I've sometimes used:

Imagine two medieval serfs toiling in muck and filth, living lives of utmost squalor.  One laments this hellish system.  The other one fantasies about how great it would be if the cruel overlord were a different race/gender.

Criticizing the hypocrisy of Democrats? I, who sees everyone as only being of one of two extremes, must now conclude that you are a Conservative! [/sarc]
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 18, 2020, 11:35:07 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 18, 2020, 10:59:36 AM
Criticizing the hypocrisy of Democrats? I, who sees everyone as only being of one of two extremes, must now conclude that you are a Conservative! [/sarc]

Everyone is a liar.  So hypocrisy is so ... yawn.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 18, 2020, 11:56:37 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 18, 2020, 10:59:36 AM
Criticizing the hypocrisy of Democrats? I, who sees everyone as only being of one of two extremes, must now conclude that you are a Conservative! [/sarc]
Not so much hypocrisy as a reliance on shallow, feel-good identity politics over substantive policy reform.

And yeah, I have plenty of criticisms of the DNC, Dem candidates/appointees, and even a small segment of liberal voters (for example, the ones who legit wanted Oprah to run for prez)

But to hear it from the few conservatives here, I have some sort of cultish devotion to Pelosi and the Democrats and that they can do no wrong in my eyes.  I figured out long ago that this was just projection and that they struggle to understand someone who doesn't operate like they do.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 18, 2020, 12:11:03 PM
It is BSing you, to say you are Trump's butt buddy or Biden's official sniffer (like food taster).  Can't take the BS?  Stay out of politics.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 18, 2020, 04:01:20 PM
Biden nominates Haaland for Secretary of the Interior (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/17/climate/deb-haaland-interior-department-native-american.html)

Given the Trump administration's prolific history of rolling back environmental protections and opening up public lands to commercial exploitation, she certainly has her work cut out for her.

QuoteUnder the Trump administration, the current and former Interior secretaries, David Bernhardt and Ryan Zinke, have used the agency to make it easier to mine and drill on public lands, while also weakening protections on endangered species. Just this week, the Interior Department finalized two rules that limit protections to animals and plants under the Endangered Species Act.
Even just a few days ago, the Trump administration failed to list the monarch butterfly as threatened (https://www.klcc.org/post/monarch-butterfly-denied-protection-trump-administration-despite-growing-extinction-dangers) even though it absolutely is because of "limited resources".  Plenty of funds for the military, corporate bailouts, and tax cuts for the rich though. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on December 19, 2020, 01:09:02 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 18, 2020, 04:01:20 PM
Biden nominates Haaland for Secretary of the Interior (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/17/climate/deb-haaland-interior-department-native-american.html)

Given the Trump administration's prolific history of rolling back environmental protections and opening up public lands to commercial exploitation, she certainly has her work cut out for her.
Even just a few days ago, the Trump administration failed to list the monarch butterfly as threatened (https://www.klcc.org/post/monarch-butterfly-denied-protection-trump-administration-despite-growing-extinction-dangers) even though it absolutely is because of "limited resources".  Plenty of funds for the military, corporate bailouts, and tax cuts for the rich though. 

She's one of the few candidates he has nominated that I'm actually generally excited about, even though once again she is a candidate with no experience in the field she is nominated for (which him consistently nominating unqualified candidates has been really rubbing me the wrong way).

If she has the support of the tribes, I am willing to give some leeway. As long as she surrounds herself with actual experts I think she is a good choice.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 19, 2020, 01:17:28 AM
At this stage, I'd be happy with a CVS cashier.  Seriously, Brenda would be a better pick than who we have currently.

As long as they aren't an industry shill, malcompetent (not just incompetent, but actively trying to do the worst job possible), a family member, or have some sort of horrible screw-up in their past, it's a step up.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 19, 2020, 10:28:19 AM
So all of the former Obama Deep State and Wall Street people are so .. communist?  Bernie Bros must smoke some good weed ;-)

It ain't over until it is over ... after 2020, can anyone claim that the unexpected can't happen?  Hmmm?

I will believe Joe Biden is President Elect on Jan 20, 2021, maybe, if his Chinese handlers will let him out of their sight.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on December 19, 2020, 06:47:55 PM
I'm just curious, but I have a question:

Where will the Football be on Jan. 20th?

If Trump is not at the inauguration at noon, when Biden takes the oath and becomes president and Trump ceases being the president, how long will it take the Football to get from where ever Trump's at to Biden? If the Football is with Biden before the swearing in, then it will not be with "the president" before the new president is sworn in.

Does any of that make sense?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 19, 2020, 07:07:44 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 19, 2020, 06:47:55 PM
I'm just curious, but I have a question:

Where will the Football be on Jan. 20th?

If Trump is not at the inauguration at noon, when Biden takes the oath and becomes president and Trump ceases being the president, how long will it take the Football to get from where ever Trump's at to Biden? If the Football is with Biden before the swearing in, then it will not be with "the president" before the new president is sworn in.

Does any of that make sense?

You or I won't know at any time ;-)  Some aid-de-camp carries it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

So worried that Trump's a war monger?  But Obama is a nobel peace prize winner?  Of course Biden won't attack China, because they are his current employer ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on December 20, 2020, 11:19:53 PM
If you wanna see some real bat shit, check this page out; all they do is repost the nuclear meltdown that MAGAts are having. It's both entertaining and horrifying.

https://twitter.com/CopingMAGA
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 20, 2020, 11:39:18 PM
Shiranu, I thought you were a young revolutionary.  Have you become too old for that?  Twitter is for LARPing Karens ;-)

I hope that nothing happens between now and Jan 21 ... but I am frequently disappointed.  I don't think getting 70 million gun owners mad was a good move.  You have to disarm them before you put them in the cattle cars to the gulags.  Even Stalin knew that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on December 21, 2020, 06:32:57 AM
One of my favorites:

Quote"I'm actually OK with Trump being a temporary dictator."
A lot of dying cancer patients would be OK with temporarily dying, but it's a fantasy.

Temporary dictatorship; I'm not sure how that works, or how that can be OK.  You turn all decisions over to one person, until you disagree with him.  Yeah, right.  Now how do you get rid of the guy?  Suddenly, getting to vote on it sounds like a good idea, but by then you have already shot yourself in the foot.

I was also amused by how many of these nut jobs think liberalism and communism are the same thing.  They sound like Baruch.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 21, 2020, 10:18:19 AM
We have the dictatorship of the CIA, with a fake democracy.  So yes, I am cool with dictatorships (particularly Stalin).

"Here Is The Full Text Of The Covid Stimulus Bill, All 5593 Pages Of It" ... like ACA, they will have to pass it, to know what is in it ;-(
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on December 21, 2020, 09:37:10 PM
Quote from: Baruch on December 19, 2020, 07:07:44 PM
You or I won't know at any time ;-)  Some aid-de-camp carries it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

So worried that Trump's a war monger?  But Obama is a nobel peace prize winner?  Of course Biden won't attack China, because they are his current employer ;-)

When Trump ceases to have presidential authority he won't have access to the nuclear codes if we're attacked before Biden gets access to them. If the Football isn't with Biden at a critical time we could be attacked in the interim. So, where will the Football be at noon?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on December 21, 2020, 10:12:54 PM
I guess they could have two copies of the Football, so at noon Trump's access to his will cease and Biden will have access to his as soon as he takes the oath.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on December 22, 2020, 05:27:47 AM
Hell has frozen over.

https://youtu.be/SqmPrrdqa4I
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 22, 2020, 11:27:04 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on December 22, 2020, 05:27:47 AM
Hell has frozen over.

https://youtu.be/SqmPrrdqa4I

Hahah ... he is just jealous he was never made Republican Presidential candidate.  I turned on the Republicans in the 80s, when he was influencing them!!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 22, 2020, 11:28:16 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 21, 2020, 09:37:10 PM
When Trump ceases to have presidential authority he won't have access to the nuclear codes if we're attacked before Biden gets access to them. If the Football isn't with Biden at a critical time we could be attacked in the interim. So, where will the Football be at noon?

Emperor Xi will take control of it.  This is his country isn't it?  The President doesn't have the authority to get up in the morning in a bad mood and just nuke someone, he isn't a warmonger like Obama ;-)  Obama started 4 new wars, Trump has made 4 peace treaties.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on December 22, 2020, 04:50:51 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on December 22, 2020, 05:27:47 AM
Hell has frozen over.

https://youtu.be/SqmPrrdqa4I

Didn't Robertson "prophecy" that Trump would get a second term? I thought I remembered he said God told him so! I guess God changed His mind...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on December 22, 2020, 06:15:42 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 22, 2020, 04:50:51 PM
Didn't Robertson "prophecy" that Trump would get a second term? I thought I remembered he said God told him so! I guess God changed His mind...
His facial shape indeed reveals how closely chimps and humans are related.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 22, 2020, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: Cassia on December 22, 2020, 06:15:42 PM
His facial shape indeed reveals how closely chimps and humans are related.

Chumps, not chimps .. don't insult fellow simians ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on December 22, 2020, 09:11:21 PM
Quote from: Cassia on December 22, 2020, 06:15:42 PM
His facial shape indeed reveals how closely chimps and humans are related.

He's a murderer and a thief!



He killed an ape and stole its face.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on December 22, 2020, 10:08:02 PM
Quote from: Cassia on December 22, 2020, 06:15:42 PM
His facial shape indeed reveals how closely chimps and humans are related.

I wondered why he looked so familiar and basically lol's when I remembered this shape from a video of darkmatter2525.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLhkPTQvMzQ&list=PL71922DE34C9673BD&index=11&t=314s
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 23, 2020, 12:44:12 AM
When you're right, you're right:  Trump calls relief bill a "disgrace" and payout "ridiculously low" (https://www.npr.org/2020/12/22/949421102/trump-calls-relief-bill-a-disgrace-asks-for-changes-after-bitter-negotiations?sc=18&f=949421102)

QuoteTrump said the bill was a "disgrace" and called the $600 payments to individuals in the current bill "ridiculously low." He said he wants that boosted to $2,000 per individual and $4,000 for couples â€" despite the fact that it was Republicans who stood in the way of higher payments for months.
To my shock, I completely agree with this.  Waiting for the other shoe to drop...

QuoteTrump blasted money appropriated for foreign aid, environmental programs and cultural institutions, calling them "wasteful."
There it is.  Well, it was good while it lasted.

QuoteSen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina responded on Twitter, calling the relief bill "imperfect," but that it "will save jobs and lives. The sooner the bill becomes law - the better."
Technically, this is correct, but it also completely misses the point.  For Christmas, Americans are being evicted.  They need serious and substantive help, not a paltry one-time barely-helping sum from Congressmen who made fortunes in insider trading, lied about the virus for months, and then were among the first to get the vaccine.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on December 23, 2020, 05:25:03 AM
Ideally, any bill to address a problem should address the problem, but bills get sidetracked all the time with money for various pet projects that are unrelated to the name on the Bill.  This helps congress hide some of the things it doesn't want you to know, and it is not ideal.  But there is nothing ideal about our political system.  This is the way things are done.  At the risk of using a vulgar term in a public forum, it is called "compromise," although "monkey business" would also be entirely appropriate.   But $600 dollars given out twice a year to people losing their jobs and homes, is somewhat of an insult.  That aspect of the bill does not change with or without the rest of the congressional shenanigans involved.  It may enable people to live on the street a little more comfortably for a few weeks, but they are still sleeping under bridges and in doorways.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 23, 2020, 10:51:37 AM
Maybe the relief bill was just increased to $2000 per worker.  Don't know the details.  All the pork is probably still in it.

"The Top 'Owners' Of America's President-Elect Joe Biden" ... same old same old ... "So, that will be no basic change. America will remain an aristocracy, no democracy..." ... get ready to be sheered next year.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on December 23, 2020, 07:59:11 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 23, 2020, 12:44:12 AM
When you're right, you're right:  Trump calls relief bill a "disgrace" and payout "ridiculously low" (https://www.npr.org/2020/12/22/949421102/trump-calls-relief-bill-a-disgrace-asks-for-changes-after-bitter-negotiations?sc=18&f=949421102)
To my shock, I completely agree with this.  Waiting for the other shoe to drop...
There it is.  Well, it was good while it lasted.
Technically, this is correct, but it also completely misses the point.  For Christmas, Americans are being evicted.  They need serious and substantive help, not a paltry one-time barely-helping sum from Congressmen who made fortunes in insider trading, lied about the virus for months, and then were among the first to get the vaccine.
I remember after Trump promised to get rid of Obamacare, he said they were "...going to replace it with much better insurance that would be just wonderful.  You'll be surprised.  It's going to be a wonderfully wonderful insurance, just wonderful."  I heard him say that on the radio, and while its from memory, you can probably hear him saying it the way he says everything he does is "just wonderful."

Then of course, they couldn't get rid of Obamacare, but they got rid of parts of it, and no effort was made to improve it, let alone replace it with something better.  So I wouldn't get to excited about people getting $2000/monthly checks in the mail anytime soon.  Remember that wonderful Casino that went bankrupt, even though he had to cut all kinds of corners on what he promised backers?  Don't get excited about anything he says.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 23, 2020, 08:21:44 PM
Even now, he still doesn't have a healthcare plan.  I'm well aware that his words carry little weight and much like his grip on power, fading fast.  Still, I take comfort - small as it may be - that Moscow Grinch et al are getting flak from both the Dems and the Trump fanclub.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 23, 2020, 08:56:54 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 23, 2020, 08:21:44 PM
Even now, he still doesn't have a healthcare plan.  I'm well aware that his words carry little weight and much like his grip on power, fading fast.  Still, I take comfort - small as it may be - that Moscow Grinch et al are getting flak from both the Dems and the Trump fanclub.

Utopia, heaven on earth, arrives soon, free everything for everyone, your lord and savior Karl Marx has promised this ;-)

Obama didn't write ACA, the Dems in Congress did.  Basically to enslave Americans to the health insurance industry, that was going bankrupt.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on December 23, 2020, 09:33:16 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 23, 2020, 08:21:44 PM
Even now, he still doesn't have a healthcare plan.  I'm well aware that his words carry little weight and much like his grip on power, fading fast.  Still, I take comfort - small as it may be - that Moscow Grinch et al are getting flak from both the Dems and the Trump fanclub.

I don't think the Republicans ever really planned to pass a new healthcare plan. Because healthcare was a major part of the Democrat's platform, they had to attack it, spin it as socialism, and say they could provide a "wonderful" alternative healthcare plan. ACA being called Obamacare didn't help. I suspect Trump actually protected Americans from the worst of the plans the Republicans had for healthcare. The golden ticket for insurance companies and their investors is to exclude people with pre-existing medical conditions. People struggling with very complicated medical needs, called "super-users", are 5 percent of patients but account for about half of the country’s health-care spending. The goal of an insurance company is to make money and no company wants these customers. As a populist candidate, Trump knew that lower and middle-class Americans who have health insurance are afraid of losing it and he repeatedly said he wouldn't accept any legislation that allowed insurance companies to refuse coverage to people with pre-existing conditions. As Trump learned, healthcare is "complicated" and it isn't simple and sexy like a border wall. The Republicans had to make other changes where they could.

As demonstrated by Trump threatening to veto the stimulus bill, Trump has no problem putting his own needs ahead of his party's.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 24, 2020, 01:55:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4B97Fmrjjo

"More votes than any other President in history!"
It's almost as if America has a larger population now than it did in the past.  Weird, ain't it?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on December 24, 2020, 02:56:32 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on December 22, 2020, 05:27:47 AM
Hell has frozen over.

https://youtu.be/SqmPrrdqa4I

He doesn't have any real soical media account he lives in, that he experiences events around him through it, does he? I mean may be only as commercial mediums managed by people 50 years younger than him? Because that's one explanation I can think of.

(The excess make up and the light made me thought somebody was wearing a mask in this is a some parody of the sort for a moment.)

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on December 24, 2020, 08:14:45 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on December 23, 2020, 09:33:16 PM
I don't think the Republicans ever really planned to pass a new healthcare plan. Because healthcare was a major part of the Democrat's platform, they had to attack it, spin it as socialism,
the ACA was basically introduced by Republicans during the Clinton Administration, but I never believed for a moment that anyone, including themselves, took it seriously.  Clinton had introduced the idea of European style single payer fully covered healthcare known as Hillarycare, and Republicans knew the public wanted it so they introduced what essentially became Obamacare.  There were small differences but the idea was  basically the same:  Require everyone to buy private health insurance or get fined.  Wha-La!  Every American would be covered, just like Canadians.  No one even gave it a second look, because it was just a way to say, "See we want you to have healthcare, too, but we have to stop Hillarycare first.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on December 24, 2020, 08:22:38 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 24, 2020, 01:55:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4B97Fmrjjo

"More votes than any other President in history!"
It's almost as if America has a larger population now than it did in the past.  Weird, ain't it?

If Trump was a typical politician I would wonder why he is investing in these commercials but Trump isn't typical. In his mind, he didn't lose. He's going to go to his grave sincerely believing that he won the 2020 election. His sycophants are trying desperately to make a case that Trump won but Trump himself doesn't need numbers because he's the greatest president America has ever seen. He doesn't care that he's undermining American's faith in elections or risking his party's control of the senate. All that matters is that people know he won.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on December 24, 2020, 08:40:39 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 24, 2020, 01:55:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4B97Fmrjjo

"More votes than any other President in history!"
It's almost as if America has a larger population now than it did in the past.  Weird, ain't it?
The Trump ad shown at the beginning reminded me of an SNL skit.  Yeah, Trump got more votes than any president before him, but Biden got even more.  The sad fact (for both Republicans and Democrats) is that Biden could NOT have got that much of a turnout without Trump in office, because Biden lacks the luster of Bill Clinton, Barrack Obama, Jack Kennedy.  He's just Biden of the status quo.  It was Trump that got disenfranchised liberals like me out of the closets and to the polls.  OK, OK, I don't want all the credit.  There were  conservatives that couldn't take it any more that switched parties this time, too.  I agree with Trump in kind of a twisted semantic way.  Biden did NOT win the election... But Trump LOST it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 24, 2020, 12:11:59 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 24, 2020, 01:55:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4B97Fmrjjo

"More votes than any other President in history!"
It's almost as if America has a larger population now than it did in the past.  Weird, ain't it?

Both lost.  Emperor Xi won.  Every official in Washington DC is on the CCP payroll, or part of Fang Fang's clientele.

Yes, Trump was an easy win in January.  But thanks to a Chinese bio-terror weapon, he lost it (emotionally, but then he is a highly stable genius).  The actual votes cast don't matter to the Deep State anyway.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 24, 2020, 12:13:28 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on December 24, 2020, 02:56:32 AM
He doesn't have any real soical media account he lives in, that he experiences events around him through it, does he? I mean may be only as commercial mediums managed by people 50 years younger than him? Because that's one explanation I can think of.

(The excess make up and the light made me thought somebody was wearing a mask in this is a some parody of the sort for a moment.)

He is a fossil, even by my standards ;-)  I only gave up my flip phone this year, I inherited my Ex's old "senior" smart phone.  I bet Robertson still uses a rotary phone ;-))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 24, 2020, 12:19:34 PM
Quote from: SGOS on December 24, 2020, 08:14:45 AM
the ACA was basically introduced by Republicans during the Clinton Administration, but I never believed for a moment that anyone, including themselves, took it seriously.  Clinton had introduced the idea of European style single payer fully covered healthcare known as Hillarycare, and Republicans knew the public wanted it so they introduced what essentially became Obamacare.  There were small differences but the idea was  basically the same:  Require everyone to buy private health insurance or get fined.  Wha-La!  Every American would be covered, just like Canadians.  No one even gave it a second look, because it was just a way to say, "See we want you to have healthcare, too, but we have to stop Hillarycare first.

Correct, ACA started at the Hoover Institute (R think tank), then became law under Gov Romney in Massachusetts (the only state more woke than Oregon).  Mitt Romney was a pseudo-Republican Presidential candidate, like Bernie is a pseudo-Democrat Presidential candidate.  I got a surprise Pikachu face when a D-Congress and D-President took up a Republican plan and passed it.

The people are never an issue for Congress, only the corporate lobbyists (including CCP).  They know enough idiots will vote to validate their organized crime syndicate.  The bankrupt health insurance business was saved (their lobbyists must have actually read the ACA before it was passed (like the recent omnibus bill just sent back to Congress, you have to pass it to see what is in it)).

"The incoming Biden administration has the cartels virtually "high-fiving" each other... they know a Biden administration will do nothing to stop cartel dominance and control of the US-Mexico border..." .. like I said, this is all about the drug trade (controlled by the CIA) and human trafficking.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 26, 2020, 11:32:31 AM
"Roger Stone Announces $25M Lawsuit Against DOJ, Mueller, Comey, Barr And Brennan" ... don't sue them, execute them ;-)

"New FBI emails detail how Hunter leveraged VP Biden trips to score BIG MONEY deals" ... facts haven't changed, Biden family is Mafia.  People who vote for or enable Mafia are criminals.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 27, 2020, 02:27:31 PM
"2020: MASCULINE REPUBLICANS / FEMININE DEMOCRATS EXPLAINED" ... aka traitor party vs patriot party?  I welcome the extinction of our current bi-sociopathic political system and replacement with a new renamed version :=)

"KAMALA HARRIS PRETENDS TO CULTURALLY APPROPRIATE KWANZAA" .. she is 2% Jamaican Black, at least Obama was 2% American Black.  She is about as Black as Gandhi.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 28, 2020, 01:03:21 PM
"Trump Signs COVID-19 Relief Bill With $600 Checks, Asks Congress To Approve Increase Later (mostly to restore expiring unemployment benefits)" ... the monkey people screech over nothing, since everyone is controlled opposition.  If Trump was evil, he would have stopped all benefits to everyone, just to take revenge on the voters.

"For 55% Of Americans, 2020 Has Been "A Personal Financial Disaster"" ... don't worry, President Biden will tap into his limitless grifter funds (and his son Hunter) and pay for all of American's drug habits.  But the job is half done, the twin-evil party has to destroy the remaining 45% of Americans too.


Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on December 28, 2020, 02:34:25 PM
Quote from: Baruch on December 28, 2020, 01:03:21 PM
the monkey people screech over nothing,

What is nothing is $600 dollars. Congress should throw in a coupon for a McDonald's Happy Meal while they are at it.ðŸ™,,
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 28, 2020, 02:47:45 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on December 28, 2020, 02:34:25 PM
What is nothing is $600 dollars. Congress should throw in a coupon for a McDonald's Happy Meal while they are at it.ðŸ™,,

The rest of the grift to Pakistan etc was still in the pig trough bill.  Congress can't exist without grifting for themselves and paying off bribes to foreign powers.

"Peter Schiff: A Lot Of Americans Think Like A 7-Year-Old" ... "...except they don’t think Santa Clause lives up in the North Pole. They think he lives in Washington D.C." ... good reason to ignore them
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on December 28, 2020, 07:43:44 PM
Well, $600 can buy a barrel of tar and a whole lot of feathers.  Or a cheap firearm.

This is like leaving a 1¢ tip.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 28, 2020, 10:40:38 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 28, 2020, 07:43:44 PM
Well, $600 can buy a barrel of tar and a whole lot of feathers.  Or a cheap firearm.

This is like leaving a 1¢ tip.

House passed new $2000 per person (what is a person) amendment to the now approved bill.  Senate and then WH to go.  They know that Americans can sell their liberty and their souls, cheap.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on December 28, 2020, 11:14:23 PM
The House voted to triple the aid to American citizens from the previous covid relief bill. (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/28/house-passes-coronavirus-stimulus-check-boost-republicans-splinter-451504)  Unlikely to come to fruition, which is strange considering how Trump supposedly genuinely wants that amount to be a reality.  To seem rather than to be.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 28, 2020, 11:33:24 PM
Lying is Satan's native tongue.  So obviously all politicians etc are demons.
===

"BEIJING BIDEN WANTS YOU TO GET AIDS TO PROVE YOU'RE WOKE" ... you must do needles and gay sex?  Decriminalize knowingly trasmitting AIDS as California already did.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on December 29, 2020, 09:38:58 AM
Funny how politicians don't hesitate to save billionaires hundreds of thousands, but the people who actually need that money just get triple digits. You can tell who these people really work for.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 29, 2020, 10:08:30 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 29, 2020, 09:38:58 AM
Funny how politicians don't hesitate to save billionaires hundreds of thousands, but the people who actually need that money just get triple digits. You can tell who these people really work for.

So why do you keep voting for them?  Doing repeatedly what already doesn't work, is the definition of insane,
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on December 29, 2020, 10:55:10 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 28, 2020, 11:14:23 PM
The House voted to triple the aid to American citizens from the previous covid relief bill. (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/28/house-passes-coronavirus-stimulus-check-boost-republicans-splinter-451504)  Unlikely to come to fruition, which is strange considering how Trump supposedly genuinely wants that amount to be a reality.  To seem rather than to be.
Trump is so politically peripatetic and incoherent right now, that Republicans will have to make up their own minds this time or they will end up following their pied piper right off the political cliff.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 29, 2020, 01:23:36 PM
Quote from: SGOS on December 29, 2020, 10:55:10 AM
Trump is so politically peripatetic and incoherent right now, that Republicans will have to make up their own minds this time or they will end up following their pied piper right off the political cliff.

Biden is G-d, the atheists have decreed this!  Trumptards are also pseudo-religious, with an equally false god.

In the end the US is toast (with Christians seeing the vague outline of Jesus in it).  Enjoy the End Times while you still can.

"TRUMP BEAT OBAMA AS MOST ADMIRED MAN, MEDIA PANICKING THAT THEIR CAREERS ARE OVER WHEN TRUMP LEAVE.." ... polls are fake

"DC HOTEL SHUT DOWN AS PANIC ERUPTS OVER TRUMP'S JANUARY 6TH PROTEST, ITS GOING TO BE MASSIVE" ... not going, would love the Trumpers to pillage it like the Visigoths in Rome

"GOP REPORT SAYS 200K MORE VOTES THAN VOTERS IN PA QUESTIONING ELECTION, DEMOCRATS SAY FAKE NEWS" .. Stalin's banana republic

"...payments in total amounting to $3.4 million for consulting services... This is a payment for the political “cover” that Biden provided to Zlochevsky..." ... given what happened to Ukraine etc under Obama, every American is a war criminal, not just corrupt


Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 30, 2020, 12:39:21 PM
"Mnuchin: COVID Relief Checks In The Mail Tomorrow, Direct Deposits Start Tonight" .. but who get them?  How soon will this be upped to $2000?  My checking account is on hold!!

"Georgia Runoff Will Likely See Delayed Results, Litigation, And Other Drama" ... ban elections due to Covid.  CIA will tell us who would have won if an election had actually occurred ... thus cutting out unnecessary middlemen ;-)

US politics is like street gang warfare, Crips vs Bloods ... or West Side Story ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20myPs_-E1I

I remember 30 years ago, when the Warrior gang ran our street in the Hispanic neighborhood we lived in.  It helped to know a little Spanish then.  The hit on a druggie at the 7/11 store across the street, early in the morning, when the mug was lured into a trap, answering a public phone, just in time for a car of killers to pull up next to him.

Or that ex-gang member I knew on-line, who had gone straight, after living a young life as an enforcer/killer.

"GOP REPORT SAYS 200K MORE VOTES THAN VOTERS IN PA QUESTIONING ELECTION, DEMOCRATS SAY FAKE NEWS" .. fake country

"They’re not after me, they're after you, I’m just standing in their way" - Donald J. Trump.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on December 30, 2020, 05:03:07 PM
So, what does he think is going to happen on 6th of January in DC?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on December 30, 2020, 08:23:16 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on December 30, 2020, 05:03:07 PM
So, what does he think is going to happen on 6th of January in DC?
All those leftist punks will riot and burn and pillage and, you know, do left stuff!!!

If trump has his way, violence. 

Trump promises 'wild' protest in DC on Jan. 6, the day Congress to count electoral votes
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/trump-promises-wild-protest-in-dc-on-jan-6-the-day-congress-to-count-electoral-votes

President Trump on Saturday promised a "wild" protest in Washington, D.C., on Jan. 6, as he continued to deny that he lost the election.

"Statistically impossible to have lost the 2020 Election," he tweeted. "Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!"

I think starting on the 6th, trump will fan the flames of violence simply because he can.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on December 30, 2020, 09:17:24 PM
It's just what his boss, Putin, wants him to do.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on December 30, 2020, 11:13:37 PM
Seems like Pence will be between a rock and a hard place on Jan. 6th. He'll be damned if he does and damned if he don't. If he does his job the way he's supposed to (his role is really only ceremonial anyway) he'll be locked out of the WH, or worse, given Trump's (and his cult members') vindictive penchants, and if he does what his CinC wants him to do, and provides him with a coup, he'll be forever branded a traitor to America and it's Constitution.

So what will he do? Will he betray America, or Trump?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 30, 2020, 11:36:05 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 30, 2020, 09:17:24 PM
It's just what his boss, Putin, wants him to do.

And everyone in Cali does what their Chinese Emperor wants  ;-)

"Cost Of Doing Business: Big Banks Have Paid $195 Billion In Fines Since 2000" ... and nobody went to jail.  Where is your "Occupy Wall Street" now, cucks?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 30, 2020, 11:36:55 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on December 30, 2020, 05:03:07 PM
So, what does he think is going to happen on 6th of January in DC?

If anything does happen, and nothing might, and they told you in advance, then they would have to kill you ;-(  Deep State is pure evil, in every country.

"Trump Declassifies Intelligence Report On Chinese Bounties In Afghanistan" ... Media reported earlier this year, it was Russia.  Well, it wasn't, the MSM lied for China
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 30, 2020, 11:37:24 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 30, 2020, 11:13:37 PM
Seems like Pence will be between a rock and a hard place on Jan. 6th. He'll be damned if he does and damned if he don't. If he does his job the way he's supposed to (his role is really only ceremonial anyway) he'll be locked out of the WH, or worse, given Trump's (and his cult members') vindictive penchants, and if he does what his CinC wants him to do, and provides him with a coup, he'll be forever branded a traitor to America and it's Constitution.

So what will he do? Will he betray America, or Trump?

Have an atheist do the deed, they are damned anyway ;-)  Dems, slavers going way back and traitors since 1860.

"The senate won’t be bullied into rushing out more borrowed money into the hands of Democrats’ rich friends who don’t need the help." ... all Dems fault, no extra bailout amount for you, because Dems suck Goldman-Sachs ...

"It's Interesting How The Violent Riots Of 2020 Ended Right After The Election" .. they were the new KKK, now multiracial and multi-class.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on December 31, 2020, 01:59:23 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 30, 2020, 11:13:37 PM
Seems like Pence will be between a rock and a hard place on Jan. 6th. He'll be damned if he does and damned if he don't. If he does his job the way he's supposed to (his role is really only ceremonial anyway) he'll be locked out of the WH, or worse, given Trump's (and his cult members') vindictive penchants, and if he does what his CinC wants him to do, and provides him with a coup, he'll be forever branded a traitor to America and it's Constitution.

So what will he do? Will he betray America, or Trump?

Considering the Supreme Court, which Trump himself packed with Republicans, told Trump to STFU, I don't see Biden doing anything stupid like supporting a coup. The easy road to take is that of the status quo. And I think that's the only thing keeping this democratic system alive right now. No one wants to have their names to go down in history as the ones responsible for turning Trump into a dictator. I'm sure they'd love to have that kind of power, but it's too risky to actually reach out and take it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on December 31, 2020, 12:43:16 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 31, 2020, 01:59:23 AM
Considering the Supreme Court, which Trump himself packed with Republicans, told Trump to STFU, I don't see Biden doing anything stupid like supporting a coup. The easy road to take is that of the status quo. And I think that's the only thing keeping this democratic system alive right now. No one wants to have their names to go down in history as the ones responsible for turning Trump into a dictator. I'm sure they'd love to have that kind of power, but it's too risky to actually reach out and take it.

Yes, SCOTUS says Black slavery is legit, and manhunts can continue north of the Mason-Dixon line.  Were you happy with Al Gore losing to George W in 2000?  Of course we like SCOTUS, if it does what we want.

End democracy now.  Stop all elections now.  Dictatorship by person with the biggest dick now ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrcbCW4y9Dw

Welcome to the Empire of Corruption, pleb ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 01, 2021, 05:18:32 PM
"Senate Overrides Trump Veto Of Defense Bill (NDAA)" ... Section 230 repeal left out.  Beijing McTurtle serves his wife's family.  So posting on forums is safe from lawsuit, for now  ;-)  The first time Trump has had a veto over-ridden, it is that important to support and protect the Swamp.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 02, 2021, 10:48:28 AM
"President Donald Trump on Friday said that changes made by Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to loosen the state’s absentee ballot signature verification laws were unconstitutional, making November’s election in the state as well as the Senate runoff races ''illegal and invalid.''" ... looseness of absentee balloting is the whole mechanism for trashing the election by Dems, that and "reprocessing" exceptional ballots by Dominion machines (basically operator can "pass" all of them by their own choice.

Comet Pizza ... tastes like Dems.  America isn't a banana republic, it has necrophilia and cannibalism.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 02, 2021, 02:54:49 PM
Trump lawyer insists that he's not insane after calling for Vice President to be executed (https://www.businessinsider.com/pro-trump-lawyer-l-lin-wood-tweets-that-pence-executed-2021-1)

:popcorn:
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 02, 2021, 04:08:46 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 02, 2021, 02:54:49 PM
Trump lawyer insists that he's not insane after calling for Vice President to be executed (https://www.businessinsider.com/pro-trump-lawyer-l-lin-wood-tweets-that-pence-executed-2021-1)

:popcorn:

Dems and Repubs are both insane.  They need to be on padded Devil's Island.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9HSGWbSsXg

This came out the year when Nixon was screwed by the Hawaii EC delegation and Chicago dead vote counting.  It all started then.

Check into America-Hotel ;-(
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 02, 2021, 07:11:52 PM
Trump bootlicker Louis Gohmert suggests that violence in the street is the only option they have left now to get Trump to stay in power.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2021/01/02/gohmert-suggests-violence-in-the-streets-after-judge-rejects-bid-to-force-vp-pence-to-overturn-bidens-win/ (https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2021/01/02/gohmert-suggests-violence-in-the-streets-after-judge-rejects-bid-to-force-vp-pence-to-overturn-bidens-win/)

Fascists gonna fascist.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 02, 2021, 07:13:24 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 02, 2021, 07:11:52 PM
Trump bootlicker Louis Gohmert suggests that violence in the street is the only option they have left now to get Trump to stay in power.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2021/01/02/gohmert-suggests-violence-in-the-streets-after-judge-rejects-bid-to-force-vp-pence-to-overturn-bidens-win/ (https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2021/01/02/gohmert-suggests-violence-in-the-streets-after-judge-rejects-bid-to-force-vp-pence-to-overturn-bidens-win/)

Fascists gonna fascist.

China-Dems want world wide communist revolution?  To the barricades!  Dems loved BLM and Anti-Fa rioters last year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ILI27rfwtM

Chaz is pacifist, right?  Every bad idea sounds better in French!  Cannon fire with shrapnel in Paris is what Chad Napoleon used to end the Revolution.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 02, 2021, 11:09:00 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 02, 2021, 07:11:52 PM
Trump bootlicker Louis Gohmert suggests that violence in the street is the only option they have left now to get Trump to stay in power.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2021/01/02/gohmert-suggests-violence-in-the-streets-after-judge-rejects-bid-to-force-vp-pence-to-overturn-bidens-win/ (https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2021/01/02/gohmert-suggests-violence-in-the-streets-after-judge-rejects-bid-to-force-vp-pence-to-overturn-bidens-win/)

Fascists gonna fascist.

Conservatives during Black Lives Matter protests: "Violence is never the answer! You've destroyed your message and credibility!"

Conservatives after being told to wear masks, or when their President loses the election: "Riot in the streets!"

I actually had a customer approach me (using me as a captive audience) and tell me that Trump should declare martial law to save our democracy. Martial law...to undo an election...to save our democracy. He also quoted an Old Testament scripture. Lemme see if I can Google it the way he made me wait ten minutes for him to do...

Ecclesiastes 10:2 - "The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."

Yeah, I'm sure this Bible verse was totally talking about American politics 2,000 years into the future...

Lloyd and Harry would be looking at these people like, "Oh, man. Those guys are dumb, aren't they? They should go back to school and learn how to count to eleventy-six."

(https://i.gifer.com/P6w5.gif)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 02, 2021, 11:24:47 PM
Violence is the answer, unfortunately.  Just ask George Washington or Maximilian Robespierre.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 03, 2021, 01:46:23 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on January 02, 2021, 11:09:00 PMEcclesiastes 10:2 - "The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
They should've continued.  Ecclesiastes 10:3 "Even as fools walk along the road, they lack sense and show everyone how stupid they are."  Or Ecclesiastes 10:6 "Fools are put in many high positions, while the rich occupy the low ones."

The Bible can seem to be very spot-on and applicable to daily life when you take very small snippets.  Though the wider context is the fleeting nature of life and luxury and therefore, to take refuge in righteous service - both to an earthly master and a heavenly one.

It gets downright creepy at the end of chapter 10: "Do not revile the king even in your thoughts or curse the rich in your bedroom, because a bird in the sky may carry your words, and a bird on the wing may report what you say." That's some real North Korean stuff right there.  Bona fide slave mentality.

The wisdom of the ages certainly - but many people fail to note that those ages were ones of cruelty and servitude.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 03, 2021, 11:20:48 AM
Human beings are cruel masters and servile slaves.  So the Bible still applies.  The idea of favoring the poor against the rich or the rich against the poor, is divide and conquer, but to who's benefit?  Did the starving French gain with the guillotine?  Did the French aristocrats gain with the salt tax?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 03, 2021, 02:03:45 PM
Check out Proverbs 11:25 and Isaiah 32:5 and 8.

Apparently God likes liberal souls...

ðŸ¤"
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 03, 2021, 02:39:07 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 03, 2021, 02:03:45 PM
Check out Proverbs 11:25 and Isaiah 32:5 and 8.

Apparently God likes liberal souls...

ðŸ¤"

You have no idea.  Has nothing to do with a druggie American circa 1970.  America has been anti-G-d from the beginning.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 03, 2021, 02:43:56 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 02, 2021, 07:11:52 PM
Trump bootlicker Louis Gohmert suggests that violence in the street is the only option they have left now to get Trump to stay in power.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2021/01/02/gohmert-suggests-violence-in-the-streets-after-judge-rejects-bid-to-force-vp-pence-to-overturn-bidens-win/ (https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2021/01/02/gohmert-suggests-violence-in-the-streets-after-judge-rejects-bid-to-force-vp-pence-to-overturn-bidens-win/)

Fascists gonna fascist.


He wants his followers to act like Antifa?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 03, 2021, 02:46:28 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 03, 2021, 02:43:56 PM
He wants his followers to act like Antifa?

You can only be AntiFa if you are German, Jewish Atheist, in the 1930s, fighting righteously against the Third Reich (because you want a different dystopia).  There are no AntiFa members today ... but many baby Hitlers, because I say so ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 03, 2021, 03:32:24 PM
Trump recorded asking Georgia Secretary of State Raffensperger to commit federal/state crime and outright fabricate votes, threatens him with criminal charges if he doesn't.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-raffensperger-call-georgia-vote/2021/01/03/d45acb92-4dc4-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 03, 2021, 03:32:42 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 03, 2021, 02:43:56 PM
He wants his followers to act like Antifa?

"Bad for you, good for me"

"Party of law and order"

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 03, 2021, 03:53:18 PM
I, for one, consider myself as antifa.  I've been antifa all my life--yes, even as a small child.  I was raised just after WWII, and the entire country was antifa.  I don't understand anybody who would be pro fascist; just as I don't understand anybody who would be pro trump.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)

Antifa (/ænˈtiːfÉ™, ˈæntiËŒfÉ'ː/)[1] is a left-wing anti-fascist and anti-racist political movement in the United States. It is highly decentralized and comprises an array of autonomous groups that aim to achieve their objectives through the use of both nonviolent and violent direct action rather than through policy reform.[2][3][4] Much of antifa political activism is nonviolent, involving poster and flyer campaigns, mutual aid, delivering speeches, marching in protest, and community organizing.[5][6][7] They also engage in protest tactics, seeking to combat fascists and racists such as neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other far-right extremists, and differing from other leftist opposition movements by their willingness to directly confront far-right activists, and in some cases law enforcement.[3] This may involve digital activism, doxing, harassment, physical violence, and property damage against those whom they identify as belonging to the far right.[8]

There have been multiple efforts to discredit antifa groups via hoaxes on social media, many of them false flag attacks originating from alt-right and 4chan users posing as antifa backers on Twitter.[17][18][19] Some hoaxes have been picked up and reported as fact by right-leaning media.[17][20][21] During the George Floyd protests in May and June 2020, the Trump administration has blamed antifa for orchestrating the mass protests; analysis of federal arrests did not find links to antifa.[22] There have been repeated calls by Donald Trump and William Barr to designate antifa as a terrorist organization[23] despite the fact that it is not an organization, a move that academics, legal experts, and others argue would exceed the authority of the presidency and violate the First Amendment.[24][25][26] Several analyses, reports, and studies concluded that antifa is not a major domestic terrorism risk and ranked far-right extremism and white supremacy as the top domestic risk.[16][27][28]
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 03, 2021, 04:03:43 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 03, 2021, 02:43:56 PM
He wants his followers to act like Antifa?

Yeah, remind me, how many people have been hurt by Antifa? Oh, zero? Funny. For a second, I thought you weren't using whataboutism to excuse the deplorable actions of Conservatives. That's a lie. That's pretty much all you do now.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 03, 2021, 04:08:43 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 03, 2021, 02:03:45 PM
Check out Proverbs 11:25 and Isaiah 32:5 and 8.

Apparently God likes liberal souls...

ðŸ¤"

Those verses only work if you use a specific translation that uses the word "liberal," and don't do any research into what the verse is actually saying. But since Conservative Christians do that anyway, why the fuck not? The Bible predicted American Liberals are the good guys! You can't argue with Gawd!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 03, 2021, 04:09:25 PM
I tried to join Antifa but I could never find their headquarters.  :P

But seriously declaring some sort of official affiliation is a great way to get heat from the pro-fascist types (https://theintercept.com/2020/06/09/antifa-fbi-tweet/)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 03, 2021, 05:19:31 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on January 03, 2021, 04:03:43 PM
Yeah, remind me, how many people have been hurt by Antifa? Oh, zero? Funny. For a second, I thought you weren't using whataboutism to excuse the deplorable actions of Conservatives. That's a lie. That's pretty much all you do now.
Antifa has become a boogieman created by right wing fanatics to defend their own fanaticism.

Quote from: Hydra009 on January 03, 2021, 04:09:25 PM
I tried to join Antifa but I could never find their headquarters.  :P
Do they even exist?  I've suspected they are a false flag of the Republican National Committee for a long time.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 03, 2021, 06:33:58 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 03, 2021, 03:32:24 PM
Trump recorded asking Georgia Secretary of State Raffensperger to commit federal/state crime and outright fabricate votes, threatens him with criminal charges if he doesn't.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-raffensperger-call-georgia-vote/2021/01/03/d45acb92-4dc4-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html

Dems have fabricated votes for decades.  Why aren't they in jail? ;-)  Because it is bipartisan.  Elections are fake.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 03, 2021, 06:34:36 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on January 03, 2021, 04:03:43 PM
Yeah, remind me, how many people have been hurt by Antifa? Oh, zero? Funny. For a second, I thought you weren't using whataboutism to excuse the deplorable actions of Conservatives. That's a lie. That's pretty much all you do now.

Repubs aren't pacifists, so they must be hypocrits?  Organized crime ... join the Mafia you most like.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 03, 2021, 06:35:49 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 03, 2021, 04:09:25 PM
I tried to join Antifa but I could never find their headquarters.  :P

But seriously declaring some sort of official affiliation is a great way to get heat from the pro-fascist types (https://theintercept.com/2020/06/09/antifa-fbi-tweet/)

You must not be a former Weathermen member from the 60s.  Don't they have a secret handshake?  Dems should come out fully as CCP members, if they were honest.  Stalin was anti-fascist, so am I.  But I am not atheist nor Trot.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 03, 2021, 06:36:46 PM
Quote from: SGOS on January 03, 2021, 05:19:31 PM
Antifa has become a boogieman created by right wing fanatics to defend their own fanaticism.
Do they even exist?  I've suspected they are a false flag of the Republican National Committee for a long time.

The KKK in full bedsheet marches down my street every Sunday ... not.  Mike CL think he can go join the Russians at Stalingrad.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 03, 2021, 06:37:02 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 03, 2021, 04:09:25 PM
I tried to join Antifa but I could never find their headquarters.  :P

But seriously declaring some sort of official affiliation is a great way to get heat from the pro-fascist types (https://theintercept.com/2020/06/09/antifa-fbi-tweet/)

I talked to the CEO once on Twitter, he seemed pretty aight, but yeah their organization is a mess tbh.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 03, 2021, 06:39:23 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 03, 2021, 06:37:02 PM
I talked to the CEO once on Twitter, he seemed pretty aight, but yeah their organization is a mess tbh.

You are just being COINTELPRO for the FBI.  Most radicals in the 60s were FBI agents.  Most terrorists in the current War on Terrorism were recruited by the CIA.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 03, 2021, 07:36:21 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 03, 2021, 04:09:25 PM
I tried to join Antifa but I could never find their headquarters.  :P

It's located just across the street from Deep State HQ.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 03, 2021, 08:30:06 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on January 03, 2021, 07:36:21 PM
It's located just across the street from Deep State HQ.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_Popular_Delusions_and_the_Madness_of_Crowds

This isn't unusual, it is normal.  These delusions and madness happen at different places and times in different ways.  Because society is a kind of trans-individual psychology.

If individuals and society are mad, like Willy Wonka ... then don't be greedy ;-)

One of the types of delusions is "moral panic".  This is what happened in Europe with the witch hunts, the Puritans in New England, possibly the whole kosher thing with Jews, the Abolitionists in America/Great Britain, SJWs ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on January 03, 2021, 09:03:06 PM
It is too damn easy to goof on these poor folks....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b-dannQQ0Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfMUn1U3aSk
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 03, 2021, 10:05:40 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on January 03, 2021, 04:08:43 PM
Those verses only work if you use a specific translation that uses the word "liberal," and don't do any research into what the verse is actually saying. But since Conservative Christians do that anyway, why the fuck not? The Bible predicted American Liberals are the good guys! You can't argue with Gawd!

Yeah, if they can equivocate, so can we!

ðŸ,,
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on January 04, 2021, 01:28:09 AM
Quote from: Cassia on January 03, 2021, 09:03:06 PM
It is too damn easy to goof on these poor folks....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b-dannQQ0Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfMUn1U3aSk

I lost brain cells and I cry inside.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 04, 2021, 03:12:42 AM
https://twitter.com/i/status/1345796238722129923

E: https://www.bitchute.com/embed/9Uf09O5ufNon/

You have a call from a cheap crook bullying and trying to sell bullshit. Except, he is the president of the United States of America.

I swear, besides everything, the scale of this thing, the way he talks, his tone of voice...etc sounds like a realistic version of those brokers in the Wolf of Wall Street movie. Of course, he is exactly that in real life, but have you ever heard him with a better 'diction' before? I haven't. The moment he gets resistence, a negative answer, his voice bends and twists in a consistent soft tone, going up and down...oh it is creepy. It's very different from how he usually speaks in front of cameras.

(I have no idea why I wrote 'phone', lol. Probably because how much he sounds like those crook salesmen who used to call people?)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 04, 2021, 04:02:30 AM
Quote...sounds like a realistic version of those brokers in the Wolf of Wall Street movie.

Honestly, he sounds closer in that call to someone who watched the Sopranos or Godfather movies once and wanted to be like them, but without an ounce of the class or true authority those dons actually possessed.

The Trump family has it's ties Genovese family (and probably other Italian-American and Russian mafia families given the business and debt they have accrued)... so it's no surprise to hear him talk like it... but again, it's like a child who hears adults speak and tries to yap like the men, but sounds like a pathetic little poodle when he opens his mouth.

I can list at least 20 people I've known who speak, talk, walk like gangsters that I've met... but every single one of them is just posing like they live a life they don't really live. Trump though... for as big of posers as all the one's I know, he is the most pathetic of them all. He is being played like a fucking moronic puppet.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 04, 2021, 05:13:36 AM
LOL, yeah...you have a point with mafia families and business relations...the quality of the language.

But think about the difference between eras and how two opposite cultures have evolved. (Wolf of Wall Street is telling of 90s.) It's not that Trump can't sound more sophisticated -be it a puppet or not- he, or any image maker of his, knows that he must not. Think about how Obama sounded. He needs to be the opposite of that. Forget about reality, his gig is about sounding like a 'tough' and 'sharp', 'no bullshit' businessman, with a style of speech that is stripped from that progressive, democratic, liberal, commie, lefitst...etc. *insert whatever is convenient here vocabulary and style of speaking.

Did you notice that in that recording,^ how he alienates himself as a speaker and says 'the president'? "...They hate what you did to the president..."

It's the art of lying of the salesman. Making it look like you talk from an independent context which evokes bare honesty; the pretense of speaking against political correctness.

It's exactly like how masses of white males form every age have talked/talks online to form movements; groups or get accepted and respected in them. To become a 'bro' in this context. The process is that you start to post and attack certain groups, posters who represent them and their culture and prove that you are 'brave' enough, LOL. It's like a cult initiation.

Remember the abhorrent things he said in his campaign and when he first became a president about minorities in the US. Same thing. It had existed before Trump. They just recognised its power and used it.

It's basicaly the old 4chan style of posting, Trump's speaking that language in politics. They have created a bullshit, meaningless vocabulary and imposed them as 'terms' from 'virtue signaling' to 'fake news', 'alternative facts'...tons of them. From teenagers to the elders. Academics to social media celebrities, writers...Big money in it.

(This has a root in social disciplines. I've been dealing with this bullshit with every book. It's horrifying and depressing. There is a ton of words combined together now; made up terms for so called concepts that almost in every group from every kind of movement -some of them completely apolitical- people think they're new, real and that they make sense. But they are not related to anyhing new and they don't mean shit. That's why they keep multiplying in every level from social media to the so called academic lingo. Because they don't mean anything, they fade away quickly and new ones are made up and they get more extreme in every step. Anyone who actually has made any serious reading on something that was written 15-20 years ago could figure this all out under a minute, lol.)


Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 04, 2021, 05:42:12 AM
QuoteHe needs to be the opposite of that. Forget about reality, his gig is about sounding like a 'tough' and 'sharp', 'no bullshit' businessman, with a style of speech that is stripped from that progressive, democratic, liberal, commie, lefitst...etc. *insert whatever is convenient here vocabulary and style of speaking.

I think that you are right in that he needs to be the "Anti-Obama", the "Anti-left", the "Anti-PC", the anti... something. Before the 90s, he was actually a reasonably spoken man... full of absolute shit, certainly, but he spoke in coherent sentences and trains of thought. Even if he was objectively wrong, he made actual arguments on why his position might be legitimate.

I do wonder though if he has changed to his current personality out of necessity or desire to deceive people... or if he has just rotted his brain away to the point that this is truly who he is. Is it a corrupt individual (or even class of individuals), or is it society as a whole that has been corrupted?

QuoteIt's exactly like how masses of white males form every age have talked/talks online to form movements; groups or get accepted and respected in them. To become a 'bro' in this context. The process is that you start to post and attack certain groups, posters who represent them and their culture and prove that you are 'brave' enough, LOL. It's like a cult initiation.

...

Because they don't mean anything, they fade away quickly and new ones are made up and they get more extreme in every step. Anyone who actually has made any serious reading on something that was written 15-20 years ago could figure this all out under a minute, lol.)

I guess this is the part that really interests me, even if at the end of the day it doesn't actually matter...

How much of it's real, and how much of it is manufactured to deceive people? Is Trump some master puppeteer who can read those shifts, or is he just a puppet himself?

But in the end, does it matter? The end result is the same either way.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 04, 2021, 08:57:08 AM
I don't think he needed to change himself in anyway. I'm sure he believes in what he does. But yeah a person need to have certain traits to handle a job like this. People define these traits differently.

Forget about politics. Concerning the general profile of top earning businessmen or businesswomen, would it be a stretch to say that they all have; need to have some sort of psychopathic traits to become what they are? (Well, as the overwhelming percentage of these people are white heteresoxeual males, there is a key identity built in it, but beyond that I don't think there are any gender differences in the game.)

Anyway, the system is based on competition. It's all about winning and getting more; money and power; resources...etc.. And that's not just about how competitive you are, it is also about how competitive your competition is. In a caricaturised expression, you need to act like as if you are in a battle royale.

Quote from: Shiranu on January 04, 2021, 05:42:12 AM
How much of it's real, and how much of it is manufactured to deceive people? Is Trump some master puppeteer who can read those shifts, or is he just a puppet himself?

But in the end, does it matter? The end result is the same either way.

Why do you think it was 'manufactured to decieve people' or need a conscious, evil puppeter? It's a natural result of human nature colliding with mass social media. Capitalism rules. The speed, annonymity, the ambition of making money, being famous, being celebrated, being a leader, being included in some group. If we are looking for a perperator, it is social media companies. They should be regulated strictly from head to toe, concerning their algorithms.

In early years of youtube, the first celebrities produced content to make people laugh at the beginning. Facebook meant to find people you lost contact after education years. Those were the things that people largely paid attention.

And concerning esp. youtube, at some point, people realised that you can actually say anything you want in a video, abuse every kind of human emotion and sell it as reality in some red pill context, put it there without the consequences of the real life and what's more, make tons of money from it. Yes, people already knew about annoymity and they have been posting a lot of stuff on boards, forums etc...but making a video is different than writing a post.

Add some time, more and more people, the rest is AI algorithms created by the 'brain' staff of the soical media companies which is getting better and better, more accurate by the time, feeding people whatever they want to see FOR SELLING ADS.

At least the idea initial idea was that. It was about figuring out what people are interested in, showing them those products and lead them to consumption. But why stop there? Or let me put it this way, is there any moral wheel, some red line in this competiton? Was there before social media?

So, if you can push people to buy certain brands of products this way for the things they need and will buy anyway, why not tell people what they need and should buy? Hmm we could do that. Does it work? Yes.

Then why not feed people other kind of products to keep them online; certain ideas and opinions or tell them why are they victims of what system, which gender, which group...manipulate the hell out of them, measure their tendencies and then how those attitudes and tendencies change too, so we could feed them over and over again according to all that change. Do we care what is the content? Nope, who cares. It's 'freedom of speech' anyway. They create it themselves. It works like magic. It's trillions of dollars of money. Keep them online as long as possible. Ha, with the Z generation we don't even need to try to do that.

Then why not...wait, where are we, what are we selling now? Oh, people. We are selling people, now. (E: Selling the consumers, themselves.) Does anyone know how this works by the way, how did we arrive here? Yeah, a handful of people who creates those algorithms probably knew but I doubt if even they can catch up with it.

Algorithms got so better, so accurate in what people want to see, now billions of people are divided in groups, and living in different realities. Political wings and parties picking up on this is like a big white smelling a drop of blood in a fucking swimming pool. Nobody has to even lift a finger.

People living in different realities -e.i. in facebook for example, people with same set of friends have completely different feeds, and/or youtube recommended videos work the same way- is probably the reason why all polls after 2010 failed to predict what's going on with elections, this badly.

Nobody is at the wheel. There is no wheel. We are a couple of decades away from a typical ugly dystopia in this velocity. Civil wars, atrocities, genocide...we actually are familiar with that darkness. Things are likley to get more 'creative'. Sky is the limit.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 04, 2021, 09:11:33 AM
Pravda and Goebbels would be proud.  Of course manipulation is going on, see nephew of Freud, in the 1920s, Edward Bernays.  People want to be lied to, the trick in "sales" is to use a crystal ball to guess what they want to be lied to about.  They are Deplorables after all.

The System isn't based on honest competition, commercially or politically.  Political-economy is one subject, and is utterly corrupt.  Of course Trump is a criminal, so are the Bidens or the Clintons or the Obamas or the Bushes.  But, but ... whataboutism?  Y'all can love what criminals you want.

Still going on about OMB?  It is a free country as far as I am concerned.  So no worries.  Even when the Chinese troops take up position in San Francisco, I won't be fighting them, I will be assisting them.  Freedom, with Chinese characteristics.  Treason with American characteristics.

One way these mooks aren't real Mafia ... they can't keep their stupid mouths shut ;-))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 04, 2021, 09:35:38 AM
Goebbels would find the picture chaotic, out of control; lacking a specific goal and Pavda is founded in name along with the new 'Communist Party' in Russia, so people like you around the world could talk about it as if it is something real. :lol: 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 04, 2021, 09:38:54 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 04, 2021, 09:35:38 AM
Goebbels would find the picture chaotic, out of control; lacking a specific goal and Pavda is founded in name along with the new 'Communist Party' in Russia, so people like you around the world could talk about it as if it is something real. :lol:

Yes, the Soviet Union was a LARP, millions of political prisoners didn't die.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 04, 2021, 09:42:12 AM
Quote from: Baruch on January 04, 2021, 09:38:54 AM
Yes, the Soviet Union was a LARP, millions of political prisoners didn't die.

We are not talking about the Soviet Union. Read the post again. Pavda and the Com Party were refounded in 90s with same names in Russia. The American Communist party is older and probably more effective than them.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 04, 2021, 10:01:01 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 04, 2021, 09:42:12 AM
We are not talking about the Soviet Union. Read the post again. Pavda and the Com Party were refounded in 90s with same names in Russia. The American Communist party is older and probably more effective than them.

Modern Russia isn't so bad, unlike America.  America is 100% pedophile.  Putin is masculine.

"The far-left civilization destroying agenda does not exist. Blame modernity/'liberalism'/capitalism."
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 04, 2021, 10:10:43 AM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 04, 2021, 05:42:12 AM
I do wonder though if he has changed to his current personality out of necessity or desire to deceive people... or if he has just rotted his brain away to the point that this is truly who he is. Is it a corrupt individual (or even class of individuals), or is it society as a whole that has been corrupted?
Well, he is definitely a case study.  I was not that familiar with his early persona say 20 years ago.  I thought his reality show was dumb, and I disregarded him.  To me, I think he just "lost it."  It seemed like a personality deterioration that began to accelerate around a year ago, when there were signs that he might be losing actual control of his following, or maybe he became frustrated by not getting the whole nation on board with his lies and bullshit.

He is most definitely a narcissistic ego maniac, and he has undoubtedly been successful selling his shit to enough people to back his projects for most of his life.  Most con men might be satisfied with that, but I think he needs to be God.  Realizing he can't control half the nation's minds forces him to confront his lack of control, which to him is a failure, because total control is all that will make him happy.  He can fire his cabinet and key appointees and scare those beholding to him, and he loves the cheers and fanatic following of his deplorables, but he desperately needs more.  He wants it all and half is not good enough.  If he can't get half the votes, he wants to win by decree, and once he has that, where is the next step?  He's doubling down on what has usually worked, but getting so bizarre that he's scaring people, and down the rabbit hole he goes.  The only thing left to save him is a compliant Senate that will decree him president.

I never thought he had all his oars in the water, but now he is confronting failure, and he has gone crazy.  Is he actually crazy like a fox?  If he is, he is obviously smarter than I am, but I don't think he's smart.  I think hes an excellent con man, but not having it all makes him feel like a loser, and he's has gone over the deep end.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 04, 2021, 10:10:54 AM
Quote from: Cassia on January 03, 2021, 09:03:06 PM
It is too damn easy to goof on these poor folks....

I thought I'd take a peek. Couldn't stop watching it, until the half of the second one.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 04, 2021, 10:15:24 AM
Quote from: Baruch on January 04, 2021, 10:01:01 AM
Modern Russia isn't so bad, unlike America. ...

Are you fucking crazy or trying to be funny? Because it is not funny.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 04, 2021, 10:39:20 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 04, 2021, 10:15:24 AM
Are you fucking crazy or trying to be funny? Because it is not funny.

So you hate Putin, hate Russia?  From Russia with love.  Don't you want Russia to invade Turkey?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 04, 2021, 11:20:08 AM
Quote from: Baruch on January 04, 2021, 10:39:20 AM
So you hate Putin, hate Russia?  From Russia with love.  Don't you want Russia to invade Turkey?

Oh, you're right! I often sit down and try to decide which country should invade the one I live in, and until you mentioned it,  I never thought of Russia before. What would I do without you, Baruch?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 04, 2021, 11:25:09 AM
Worse Than Treason
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/what-republicans-are-doing-worse-treason/617538/

This is sedition, plain and simple. No amount of playacting and rationalizing can change the fact that the majority of the Republican Party and its apologists are advocating for the overthrow of an American election and the continued rule of a sociopathic autocrat.

Today, the “sedition caucus” includes at least 140 members of the Houseâ€"that is, some two-thirds of the House GOP membershipâ€"and at least 10 members of the Senate. Their challenge comes after weeks of insistence that the 2020 election was rigged, plagued by fraud, and even subverted by foreign powers. The president and his minions have filed, and lost, scores of lawsuits that ranged from minor disputes over process to childlike, error-filled briefs full of bizarre assertions.

Instead of threatening to gavel these objections into irrelevance, as Biden did four years ago, Vice President Mike Pence “welcomes” these challenges. Pence’s career is finished, but he could have stood for the Constitution he claims to love and which he swore to defend. However, cowardice is contagious, and no mask was thick enough to protect Pence from the pathogen of fear.

The real question is--who will do anything about it?  If this gets a pass, then I live in a country that stands for nothing; we truly are corporate/ 1% USA.  I don't think this will succeed, but what happens when the next trump happens, one that is not stupid and bungling?  The blueprint is in place for this country to actually become a fascist dictatorship.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 04, 2021, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 04, 2021, 11:20:08 AM
Oh, you're right! I often sit down and try to decide which country should invade the one I live in, and until you mentioned it,  I never thought of Russia before. What would I do without you, Baruch?

Well, the Czar might be better than Putin, but I have my doubts.  Don't you want the Muslims eliminated from your country?

Dems say ... Repubs are Evil, Repubs are traitors ... bwahaha.  Like a White person looking in the mirror each morning, and unselfconsciously chanting, "Death to Whitey".  It isn't treason to help the CCP, Walmart or Amazon, that is just protecting the supply chain!!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 04, 2021, 02:40:37 PM
Quote from: Baruch on January 04, 2021, 02:24:28 PM
Well, the Czar might be better than Putin, but I have my doubts.  Don't you want the Muslims eliminated from your country?

Dems say ... Repubs are Evil, Repubs are traitors ... bwahaha.  Like a White person looking in the mirror each morning, and unselfconsciously chanting, "Death to Whitey".  It isn't treason to help the CCP, Walmart or Amazon, that is just protecting the supply chain!!

Baruch, you sometimes sound like you are going through some sort of mental deterioration. And no, I don't mean old age.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 04, 2021, 03:29:50 PM
I think Baruch has good intentions, but that's what paves the road to hell...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 04, 2021, 03:30:15 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 04, 2021, 02:40:37 PM
Baruch, you sometimes sound like you are going through some sort of mental deterioration. And no, I don't mean old age.

In 20 more years you will understand.  Not derangement, wisdom.
===

I would have held my nose, given the poor Dem primary season, just blame it on Covid.  I would have held my nose if people honestly disgusted with Trump, voted for Biden/Harris ... a very weak ticket indeed.  But outright coup in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 is just going toooo far.  It is time for a French style revolution against the Great Reset of the Chinese/Euro/American elite.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 04, 2021, 11:12:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHQ5NhRv54A

Cruz is such a fraud. Almost every word coming out of his mouth is bullshit, and he knows it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 05, 2021, 12:15:44 AM
Hopefully this is already common knowledge, but Ted Cruz was caught in a corruption scheme on behalf of his billionaire friends (https://www.rawstory.com/ted-cruz-corrupt/) (who just so happened to pour millions back into his coffers)

It's a crying shame that he couldn't apply his zeal for democracy in Hong Kong into at least an appreciation for democracy at home.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 05, 2021, 12:49:53 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 05, 2021, 12:15:44 AM
Hopefully this is already common knowledge, but Ted Cruz was caught in a corruption scheme on behalf of his billionaire friends (https://www.rawstory.com/ted-cruz-corrupt/) (who just so happened to pour millions back into his coffers)

It's a crying shame that he couldn't apply his zeal for democracy in Hong Kong into at least an appreciation for democracy at home.

For fuck sake. This is equivalent to a billionaire cutting to the front of a food line, stuffing their face, and taking truckloads of food home in to-go bags. And people wonder why the government can only part with $600 in stimulus checks.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 05, 2021, 01:03:48 AM
So the way to implement communism is to destroy the money system, because you don't want anyone to grift?  Unless they are the Clintons or the Bidens??  Already proven to work, that is where hyperinflation comes from.  Socialism in Weimar, communism in Hungary, communism in Zimbabwe etc.  Politicians want you to believe that shit just happens, while they are holding a bloody murder weapon.  If you really hate money, send me yours ;-)

If you are just jealous, then take up bank robbery, like young Stalin.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 05, 2021, 02:27:35 AM
Oh, I almost forgot... and it's not exactly Trump v. Biden, but I'll put it here anyways...

QAnon candidate and representative Lauren Boebert is insisting she will carry her glock into Congress because it's her god-given right to do so. DC police have said that, if she is caught carrying a firearm she will be subject to city law as anyone else would be. And while it is legal for her to carry her pistol on Capitol grounds (which seems really weird to me), bringing it into the Chamber would be a federal violation.

But hey, she is part of the party of "Law and Order"... just ignore this or the fact she has been arrested several times before.

https://www.newsweek.com/new-colorado-congresswoman-says-i-will-carry-my-glock-congress-1558617 (https://www.newsweek.com/new-colorado-congresswoman-says-i-will-carry-my-glock-congress-1558617)


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eq7nzsKVkAEBrgX?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 05, 2021, 03:15:16 AM
It makes sense from the current system's point of view, I think. It's DC. It's their fort. It's a police state. It's funny, considering they think that they can do something with it when it comes down to it in general. That it would work? For any side or group in the US against the Fed. St. So that stops making sense to me way up there.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on January 05, 2021, 03:33:29 AM
Listened to chunks of Trump's call to Georgia's official in which he wailed and complain to have 11780 votes to be 'found', to get him to win the state still.
Absolutely pathetic.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 05, 2021, 04:16:33 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 05, 2021, 03:15:16 AM
It makes sense from the current system's point of view, I think. It's DC. It's their fort. It's a police state. It's funny, considering they think that they can do something with it when it comes down to it in general. That it would work? For any side or group in the US against the Fed. St. So that stops making sense to me way up there.
At this time, the antics in our government don't make sense to a lot of people, at least the majority.  The problem is that it makes sense to the other half. 

Those who believe the election was fair are relieved.  Even the New York Times expresses relief that things are settling back to sanity due to the integrity of a few key players.  I'm not impressed or relieved.  This is a paradigm shift, toward a new normal.  As nonsensical as it is, it's entirely legal, and the next step is to take it to the illegal.  We are already seeing this with Trump's attempts to corrupt the Georgia voting process and what's her name carrying a Glock into Congress.

And this shit started happening years ago when Americans became desensitized to gerrymandering, and all types of voter suppression.  And it was going on before the Civil War.  Sure we whined about it, but no one in power has done anything to stop it.  That led to the present, an attempt to discard votes to achieve a more desired outcome.  The next step is to complete the power grab by any means possible.  We are halfway through that step.

Those who realize this is happening, want to think it's only an anomaly.  It's not.  This is a process.  It's the same process where freedom and/or democracy transitions into dictatorship.  This is how dictators come into power.  The fact that we are not quite there YET should be of no comfort to anyone.  Any attempt to amend the Constitution to make America a fair democracy is a revolution that is not going to happen, because people are satisfied with the status quo.  They seem to think it works.  It doesn't work, it changes into something else as the old status quo becomes a memory.

Installing Biden or Sanders as president isn't going to help.  It only creates a temporary reprieve, so everyone can sit on their ass and enjoy the status quo for a little longer.  In fact, our leaders of both parties love this kind of disruption, because it provides campaign fodder where promises to fix things are put on the back burner once the new leadership is installed.  If things get fixed, we have no reason to hate each other, and that's not good for anyone in Washington DC., where concerns about what's good for America are just slogans and nothing more.

I have a friend who assures me that once Biden is seated, everything else will take care of itself.  My friend is a smart guy too, which only tells me that there is little hope for a better system.  It's like watching football.  If your team wins, it makes you feel good.  If the other team wins, it makes you feel bad.  But like the football game, all that is left after the victory or the defeat is what we had before the game, and that is the same old flawed system that we have grown comfortable with.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 05, 2021, 04:25:14 AM
I really, really do not want to like your post SGOS, but I think it is unfortunately far too accurate.

When shit hits the fan, I hope I at least live in a state that has legalized cannabis to the point i'm too high to care, or live in a country that is far enough away to not be too caught up in the chaos... but with how globally powerful the United States is I don't know where that might be. Antarctica, maybe...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 05, 2021, 07:54:07 AM
The constitution gives the Senate the power to select the president in cases of electoral dispute.  This is a mistake, because no branch of the government should have that power when the biggest threat to democracy has always been the institutions of government itself.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 05, 2021, 10:02:40 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 05, 2021, 03:33:29 AM
Listened to chunks of Trump's call to Georgia's official in which he wailed and complain to have 11780 votes to be 'found', to get him to win the state still.
Absolutely pathetic.

How do you know any of your fake EU elections are real?  Trust Ursula Von Der Leyen?  Enjoying USSR 2.0 yet?  European MSM not Pravda 2.0?

My work foreman in summer 1974 said, you can't have WWIII until Germany re-unites.  Yawole mein Herr!

Burn Georgia Down ... General Sherman probably.  Ursula was your Defense Minister before her current appointment.  Looks like a scary blond librarian ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 05, 2021, 10:05:05 AM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 05, 2021, 04:25:14 AM
I really, really do not want to like your post SGOS, but I think it is unfortunately far too accurate.

When shit hits the fan, I hope I at least live in a state that has legalized cannabis to the point i'm too high to care, or live in a country that is far enough away to not be too caught up in the chaos... but with how globally powerful the United States is I don't know where that might be. Antarctica, maybe...

Race war, revolution, civil war, nuclear war .. 2021 is going to be marvelous!  Enjoy a 21st century dirge ...

Listen to "Megadeth - Symphony of Destruction"
===

Left handed sociopaths vs right handed sociopaths.  Going to go pop some popcorn for today, tomorrow etc.

"BEIJING BIDEN BEGS PEOPLE NOT TO SHOW UP FOR HIS ASTERISK INAUGURATION PARADE" .. going to walk down Pennsylvania Ave like Carter, to be a martyr for the Black/Hispanic/Gay/Trans/Marxist voters.  I expect Harpy Harris to be on the "grassy knoll".

"GOP - Gutless Old Profiteers
DNC - Divisive Neo Communists"

Lyndon Johnson - controlled opposition
Richard Nixon - controlled opposition
Gerald Ford - controlled opposition
Jimmy Carter - controlled opposition
Ronald Reagan - controlled opposition
George H W Bush - controlled opposition
Bill Clinton - controlled opposition
George W Bush - controlled opposition
Barak Obama - controlled opposition
Donald Trump - controlled opposition

Jack, Bobby and Martin - not controlled opposition

Do you see a pattern?  Your populist is whoever is assassinated.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 05, 2021, 10:05:53 AM
Quote from: SGOS on January 05, 2021, 07:54:07 AM
The constitution gives the Senate the power to select the president in cases of electoral dispute.  This is a mistake, because no branch of the government should have that power when the biggest threat to democracy has always been the institutions of government itself.

Communist dictatorship?  Yeah baby!!  Believe in Karl Marx, he died for your proletariat sins.

The US is a mistake (King George)

My culture, why I don't support Trump ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNGPxA3H7FA

That was way back when, but in America it is still taco Tuesday ;-))

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd7AWLKAuQU
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on January 05, 2021, 12:52:57 PM
Quote from: Baruch on January 05, 2021, 10:02:40 AM
How do you know any of your fake EU elections are real?  Trust Ursula Von Der Leyen?  Enjoying USSR 2.0 yet?  European MSM not Pravda 2.0?

My work foreman in summer 1974 said, you can't have WWIII until Germany re-unites.  Yawole mein Herr!

Burn Georgia Down ... General Sherman probably.  Ursula was your Defense Minister before her current appointment.  Looks like a scary blond librarian ;-)

Look Baruch, you can deflect as much as you want. It doesn't mean anything.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 05, 2021, 01:42:59 PM
Quote from: SGOS on January 05, 2021, 07:54:07 AMThe constitution gives the Senate the power to select the president in cases of electoral dispute.  This is a mistake, because no branch of the government should have that power when the biggest threat to democracy has always been the institutions of government itself.
If the President were directly elected by the people, we wouldn't have this problem.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 05, 2021, 03:02:58 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 05, 2021, 01:42:59 PM
If the President were directly elected by the people, we wouldn't have this problem.

Only if we were one language, one culture, one political party.  Like North Korea.
===

"Apple Maps Cancels Directions To DC As City Gears Up For Protests" .. Apple shoes it is completely owned by CCP
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 05, 2021, 03:03:30 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 05, 2021, 12:52:57 PM
Look Baruch, you can deflect as much as you want. It doesn't mean anything.

Be proud of your country, if you know which one it is ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 06, 2021, 02:20:02 AM
Georgia election has me like:

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/faaf8386c705a77aa833706234993736/tenor.gif)

Perdue/Ossoff still too close to call, but it looks like Warnock beat Loeffler.  That's great because Loeffler is like what happens if you put Trump and Ann Coulter in a blender, raise it in the Weimar Republic, and then give it almost a billion dollars to buy her way to the top.

Imagine being a working stiff in Georgia and then voting for someone who made bank on insider trading and lying about the virus while your neighbors are dropping dead and you're out of work.  Then she hitches her wagon to the Treason Train, tries to throw out your vote then has the nerve to ask you to vote for her.  It must take some serious clown makeup to vote for that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on January 06, 2021, 02:44:08 AM
Come onnnnn ossof.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 06, 2021, 03:05:06 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 06, 2021, 02:44:08 AM
Come onnnnn ossof.

I think he has it. A few thousand ahead, and the remaining votes are all in Democrat strongholds.

And to be honest, from the video's I've seen of him... he is a pretty strong moderate, so I don't get what the appeal of fucking Perdue is to Republicans other than the (R). He is progressive on common sense progressive issues while still holding ideas that appeal to the average American... how do you see that and still say, "Nah, I rather vote for the guy who is embroiled in corruption scandals."?

I am ashamed as fuck of being a Texan because of our election results, but at least my mom's state made me not completely hate myself.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 06, 2021, 03:11:47 AM
Also, huge respect to Stacey Abrams who had the hard-carry of flipping Georgia after being cheated out of the governorship, along with everyone on the ground who made it happen.

She straight up said, "Alright, I'll let you cheat me out of being governor... but I'm gonna make sure Georgia costs you the presidency and the senate in return.". She is a fucking bad ass.

Plus... this picture just hits me in the feels.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErBfS-pXAAA9Drq?format=jpg&name=medium)

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on January 06, 2021, 04:39:12 AM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 06, 2021, 03:05:06 AM
I think he has it. A few thousand ahead, and the remaining votes are all in Democrat strongholds.

And to be honest, from the video's I've seen of him... he is a pretty strong moderate, so I don't get what the appeal of fucking Perdue is to Republicans other than the (R). He is progressive on common sense progressive issues while still holding ideas that appeal to the average American... how do you see that and still say, "Nah, I rather vote for the guy who is embroiled in corruption scandals."?

I am ashamed as fuck of being a Texan because of our election results, but at least my mom's state made me not completely hate myself.

At the very least my County was one of blue ones.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 06, 2021, 07:11:03 AM
I didn't expect this at all.  I was told it was nip and tuck, but I thought the media was just trying to make it into a horse race.  As of this minute, it appears that Dems control the Senate.  Now if Biden were just aggressive enough to do more than protect the status quo, this power could be put to good use.  So what is the problem with the status quo?  Well, for one, we've all been living in it for the last month, and I didn't thing it was all that great.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on January 06, 2021, 07:23:53 AM
So todays the day of Trump's shitshow
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on January 06, 2021, 07:29:45 AM
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on January 06, 2021, 07:23:53 AM
So todays the day of Trump's shitshow
Lets see how senate minority leader moscow mitch reacts, lol.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on January 06, 2021, 07:55:11 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 05, 2021, 01:42:59 PM
If the President were directly elected by the people, we wouldn't have this problem.
No, we'd have different ones.

BTW, just saw a bit on OANN saying that T.rump may put up his daughter for the presidency next time around. And here I was thinking "24" was her IQ.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 10:04:01 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 06, 2021, 02:44:08 AM
Come onnnnn ossof.

Come on Satan!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 10:05:10 AM
Quote from: Cassia on January 06, 2021, 07:29:45 AM
Lets see how senate minority leader moscow mitch reacts, lol.

McConnell is the Chinese turtle.  Everyone here works for Karl Marx, not Putin.  R is first letter in "Republican" and "Russia" .. eyes roll in head at this secret knowledge.  Stacy Abrams already anointed, invited to Davos.

A Biden Presidency is Obama 3.0, like Hillary would have done.  I expect red lines, massive anti-semitism, universal Chinese dicking, nuclear war with Russia by mid year.  China say "US and Russia go fight" - Confucius Institute approves.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 10:06:16 AM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on January 06, 2021, 07:55:11 AM
No, we'd have different ones.

BTW, just saw a bit on OANN saying that T.rump may put up his daughter for the presidency next time around. And here I was thinking "24" was her IQ.

Y'all are just haters ... good for you ;-)  There will be a knock at your door, someday, because you hated the wrong person at the grocery store?

Ad hominem after ad hominem .. because even without Trump, y'all are highly stable geniuses, right?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 06, 2021, 10:29:53 AM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on January 06, 2021, 07:55:11 AM
No, we'd have different ones.

BTW, just saw a bit on OANN saying that T.rump may put up his daughter for the presidency next time around. And here I was thinking "24" was her IQ.
I had heard this before.  But he looks like he's trying to set up a comeback for himself right now.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 10:50:39 AM
Quote from: SGOS on January 06, 2021, 10:29:53 AM
I had heard this before.  But he looks like he's trying to set up a comeback for himself right now.

You must give ALL your money to the Dems and China ... to prevent this ... suckers.

"Two chickens being eaten is false and has been debunked as we asked the fox guarding the hen house." ... worthless voters, worthless politicians, worthless country.  How?  Hyperinflation (aka it is always caused by direct government intervention, not by some hidden hand).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgxZr6LLS34

Kill and eat the Rs now ... then we can take the fight to the Ds.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 06, 2021, 12:26:12 PM
It's already turning out to be a fun day on Trump's twtter as he melts down.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErD0noXUwAIPOJ9?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 06, 2021, 12:40:15 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 06, 2021, 12:26:12 PM
It's already turning out to be a fun day on Trump's twtter as he melts down.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErD0noXUwAIPOJ9?format=jpg&name=small)
In his phone conversation with the Georgia Voting Officials Trump said (paraphrased), "If you don't fix this, people in your state are going to be so mad, they are already mad, so mad that they won't even turn out to vote in your runoff election."

I dunno.  Maybe they were.  Either that or they voted for Biden.  The point is that Trump can blame the Senatorial loss on Georgia voting officials, because everything is someone else's fault.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 12:53:36 PM
Yes, Trump is Jewish, kill all the ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 06, 2021, 01:25:24 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on January 06, 2021, 07:55:11 AMNo, we'd have different ones.
I dunno.  It seems to be working okay for literally every other Western country but us, where who we pick and who gets elected aren't always the same person.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 06, 2021, 01:34:23 PM
Meanwhile, Pence and Pelosi are officially counting the electoral votes and predictably, the Republicans objected to Arizona's vote.  Republicans are pushing for Russian-style sham elections in a last desperate bid to stay in power.  Shameful.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 06, 2021, 02:14:41 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 06, 2021, 02:44:08 AM
Come onnnnn ossof.

I'm prayin' my ass off for Ossof!
✌️
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 06, 2021, 02:28:32 PM
Diehard Trumplings' coup attempt could lose them a lot of their funding (https://www.fr24news.com/a/2021/01/trumps-diehard-republicans-collide-with-us-business.html)

(originally posted on Financial Times, but they have a subscription wall up)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 06, 2021, 02:32:04 PM
The Capitol Building has been Breached by Trump supporters, and both houses went into a recess.  Congressmen were running out of the chambers.  I haven't watched these proceedings before, but I don't think this is typical.  The live feed is now cut off.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 06, 2021, 02:34:00 PM
Those damn liberals are rioting in D.C!


Oh, wait, it's just Trumples, so it's all good. Those patriots'll set things right...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 06, 2021, 02:36:04 PM
House members were advised not to be alarmed by a loud bang as a suspicious package was about to be destroyed.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 06, 2021, 02:39:31 PM
Jim RutenbergWriter-at-large

   
QuoteThis is like watching foreign television right now â€" some foreign, unstable government struggling with democracy.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 06, 2021, 02:44:26 PM
Jim Himes
@jahimes
QuotePolice have asked us to get gas masks out as there has been tear gas used in the rotunda.

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
QuotePlease support our Capitol Police and Law Enforcement. They are truly on the side of our Country. Stay peaceful!

Charlie SavageWashington Correspondent

QuoteTrump, or someone with access to his Twitter account, with a sudden change of tone.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 06, 2021, 02:45:56 PM
Jim RutenbergWriter-at-large
Quote
    Cable news has been completely over taken by scenes of abject chaos.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 06, 2021, 02:52:28 PM
Carl HulseChief Washington correspondent
QuoteSo President Trump’s often chaotic relationship with Congress ends up with him urging his supporters to storm the Capitol. Lawmakers are going to have little appetite for entertaining these futile objections to the electors once order is restored.

Emily Cochrane
@ESCochrane
QuoteThere’s pounding on the chamber door. Guns are drawn by police officers. Those of us left are laying low on the floor of the gallery.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on January 06, 2021, 02:58:22 PM
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." We are there.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 06, 2021, 03:02:54 PM
Quote“As close to a coup attempt that this country has ever seen,” former Washington Police Chief Ramsey says on CNN.

Igor Bobic
@igorbobic
QuoteThey’re in the chamber. One is up on the dais yelling “Trump won that election!” This is insane

Maggie HabermanWhite House Correspondent

QuoteAs one of the president’s adult sons is calling for an end to the violence at the Capitol from Trump supporters, the president’s other adult son is tweeting how exciting it was to get happy birthday wishes from the rally crowd earlier.

Catie EdmondsonCongressional Correspondent

Quote“Several dozen” protesters are roaming through the Senate halls, yelling “Where are they,” likely referring to the members of Congress who opposed the gambit to overturn the election results, according to our colleagues there.


Maggie HabermanWhite House Correspondent

QuoteJust to update our readers â€" the Electoral College certification proceedings are still paused as chaos engulfs the Capitol. Trump encouraged his supporters at a nearby rally this morning to march to the complex. He had complained that he isn’t president after Jan. 20 unless someone made a change and called the system rigged. We don’t know where this is headed, but we are keeping a close eye on it.

Michael S. SchmidtWashington Correspondent

QuoteProtesters on the House side of the Capitol are chanting “U-S-A, U-S-A” and singing the national anthem. Police are barring a large door on the western side of the Capitol where Trump supporters are massed on the stairs, according to our colleagues.

Mark LeibovichChief National Correspondent
Quote
    Among nearly all Republicans who knew better, “humoring” became a more palatable way to describe their own passive approach to all this over four years. Their dialect was glib ignorance (“didn’t see the tweet”) and circular nonsense (“Trump’s going to do what Trump is going to do,” Senator Charles Grassley of Iowa said), but the effect was the same â€" complicity and capitulation. It became the price of admission to the party.

Michael S. SchmidtWashington Correspondent

QuoteSome Trump supporters outside the Capitol have children with them, and none appear to be wearing masks, our colleagues report.


Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on January 06, 2021, 03:13:14 PM
"The party of law and order"


(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/762886579290767370/796466912858341416/Optimized-Left_4_Chud.png?width=493&height=657)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 06, 2021, 03:16:10 PM
One Republican speaker opposing the certification was speaking, and suddenly asked the house to restore order.  That's when congressmen were running out of the chamber.  I couldn't hear any commotion because he was speaking in a directional microphone, but that was the beginning of the riot as the building was being stormed.  The Chamber went into recess right then, and my feed was lost.

Free speech also calls for responsibility.  Words have power. I think Trump has lost his mind in a desperate power grab.  He should be impeached.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on January 06, 2021, 03:25:49 PM
I called it. A shit show.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 03:27:49 PM
Quote from: SGOS on January 06, 2021, 03:16:10 PM
... Free speech also calls for responsibility.  Words have power. I think Trump has lost his mind in a desperate power grab.  He should be impeached.

Or he has more to lose than just the elections when the dust settles? This is crazy. What are they thinking?

Thanks for the updates by the way.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 03:46:46 PM
I've heard one death and that it is being taken under control. Any other news?

https://eksisozluk.com/img/87qq4cg2

https://eksisozluk.com/img/rx0oy1xj

https://eksisozluk.com/img/969m6rfi

https://eksisozluk.com/img/fui2gglw

E: Where is the National Guard?

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on January 06, 2021, 03:53:15 PM
I hoped it wouldn't be like this.
But what is to be expected, after four years of straight up poison?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 06, 2021, 04:06:17 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 06, 2021, 03:53:15 PM
I hoped it wouldn't be like this.
But what is to be expected, after four years of straight up poison?
Expected, but still shocking to watch.  Of course, I've been in a smaller lead up state of shock ever since Trump became president.  So I'm not surprised, just shocked to see this.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 04:09:28 PM
Quote... Swarms of protesters roamed the halls, taking photos and breaking into offices. A man was smoking pot in a room where there were photos of mountains and maps of Oregon on the wall. A man put a framed photo of the Dalai Lama in his backpack. A man in a leather jacket ripped a scroll with Chinese characters. ...

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/06/us/washington-dc-protests
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 04:10:45 PM
Quote from: Cassia on January 06, 2021, 02:58:22 PM
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." We are there.

When communism comes to America, it will be speaking Chinese ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 04:11:22 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 06, 2021, 01:25:24 PM
I dunno.  It seems to be working okay for literally every other Western country but us, where who we pick and who gets elected aren't always the same person.

Yes, China is the model we must follow, Han Master Race.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 04:11:59 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 06, 2021, 01:34:23 PM
Meanwhile, Pence and Pelosi are officially counting the electoral votes and predictably, the Republicans objected to Arizona's vote.  Republicans are pushing for Russian-style sham elections in a last desperate bid to stay in power.  Shameful.

Dems calling for free fentanyl in memory of George Floyd.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 04:12:50 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 06, 2021, 02:34:00 PM
Those damn liberals are rioting in D.C!


Oh, wait, it's just Trumples, so it's all good. Those patriots'll set things right...

Too bad there are only 2 or 3 people (like Trump inauguration crowd).  Remember, if the news isn't from Beijing, it is false news ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 04:13:57 PM
Quote from: SGOS on January 06, 2021, 02:32:04 PM
The Capitol Building has been Breached by Trump supporters, and both houses went into a recess.  Congressmen were running out of the chambers.  I haven't watched these proceedings before, but I don't think this is typical.  The live feed is now cut off.

Congress goes into recess lots of times.  They play jump rope, then come back and drink milk chocolate, eat cookies and take a nap on their blankie ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 04:15:07 PM
Quote from: SGOS on January 06, 2021, 02:36:04 PM
House members were advised not to be alarmed by a loud bang as a suspicious package was about to be destroyed.

That was all the EC letters for Trump being blown up ;-)  The ones for Biden aren't "suspicious" ;-))
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 04:16:05 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 06, 2021, 02:28:32 PM
Diehard Trumplings' coup attempt could lose them a lot of their funding (https://www.fr24news.com/a/2021/01/trumps-diehard-republicans-collide-with-us-business.html)

(originally posted on Financial Times, but they have a subscription wall up)

Financial Times, like Guardian, is an MI6 rag.  Keep quoting reliable (Marxist) news sources.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 04:17:04 PM
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on January 06, 2021, 03:25:49 PM
I called it. A shit show.

Continental Congress in 1775?  King George did nothing wrong.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 04:17:40 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 03:27:49 PM
Or he has more to lose than just the elections when the dust settles? This is crazy. What are they thinking?

Thanks for the updates by the way.

Probably checking with Turkish military on how (not) to stage a coup ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 04:18:26 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 06, 2021, 03:53:15 PM
I hoped it wouldn't be like this.
But what is to be expected, after four years of straight up poison?

Wait until the Russian or Chinese army arrives in Brussels to restore order ... it is coming for you too.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 04:18:48 PM
It is kind of shocking though. I mean yeah everyone expected something. But the pictures, man. What is the psyhcology of sitting in Pelosi's chair, and the chair in the big chamber and taking pictures? Grabbing the stand? Smoking pot inside, stealing stuff? Look at them. They look like they have just escaped from an asylum in some other dimension.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 04:19:25 PM
Quote from: SGOS on January 06, 2021, 04:06:17 PM
Expected, but still shocking to watch.  Of course, I've been in a smaller lead up state of shock ever since Trump became president.  So I'm not surprised, just shocked to see this.

So you haven't been indulging in liquid refreshment the whole last 4+ years?  What a waste!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 04:20:06 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 04:09:28 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/06/us/washington-dc-protests

Direct from Karl Marx Press.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 04:22:46 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/06/us/washington-dc-protests

QuoteAn explosive device is found at the R.N.C., and the D.N.C. is evacuated.
An explosive device was found at the headquarters of the Republican National Committee in Washington and the nearby headquarters of the Democratic National Committee was evacuated after the discovery of a suspicious package on Wednesday, according to three people briefed on the discoveries.

The device that was found at the R.N.C. was a pipe bomb that was successfully destroyed by a bomb squad, according to an official for the R.N.C.

The package at the D.N.C. has yet to be identified, according to a top Democrat briefed on the matter who was not authorized to speak publicly about it.

The R.N.C. and D.N.C. are headquartered just a few blocks away from the U.S. Capitol.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on January 06, 2021, 04:23:30 PM
Quote from: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 04:18:26 PM
Wait until the Russian or Chinese army arrives in Brussels to restore order ... it is coming for you too.

For fuck's sake Baruch, you're surrounded and covered by broken glass already.

Put down the bag of stones and try for some humility.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 04:24:04 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 04:18:48 PM
It is kind of shocking though. I mean yeah everyone expected something. But the pictures, man. What is the psyhcology of sitting in Pelosi's chair, and the chair in the big chamber and taking pictures? Grabbing the stand? Smoking pot inside, stealing stuff? Look at them. They look like they have just escaped from an asylum in some other dimension.

Wait until the public summary executions start.  Will D kill R or R kill D.  Inquiring Chinese want to know.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 04:24:59 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 06, 2021, 04:23:30 PM
For fuck's sake Baruch, you're surrounded and covered by broken glass already.

Put down the bag of stones and try for some humility.

Sorry to interrupt your Nazis video game, EU lover ;-)  Chancellor Merkel is too old for you ;-)

Humility, like not sucking the *##&$ of Klaus Schwab?

Yes, I am a minority of one.  So per Woke, you have to give me anything I want, forever!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 04:45:49 PM
Shut the fuck up kindly.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 06, 2021, 04:48:34 PM
Jason Harvestdancer, tell me again how Democrats riot in the streets and Republicans protest in the voting booth?

(https://i.insider.com/5ff61e67d184b30018aad5f8?width=700&format=jpeg&auto=webp)

That looks like a very big voting booth. I'm glad we have Republicans to inject this nation with some much needed sanity and civility. If only we could do something about those guys who hate fascists.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 04:53:43 PM
It's smt like an hour, ten minutes to the D.C. curfew. If they resist and stay, things could turn actually bad this time? Ooof.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 06, 2021, 05:03:43 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 04:53:43 PM
It's smt like an hour, ten minutes to the D.C. curfew. If they resist and stay, things could turn actually bad this time? Ooof.
The crowd seems to be thinning out now.  People are casually leaving as they would from a sporting event.  Some will stay past the curfew of course and then bitch about their rights being violated when they are confronted.  Comparatively speaking, the insurgents were treated with kid gloves.  Imagine how many dead there would be by now if the rioters were black or Muslim.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 06, 2021, 05:31:23 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 06, 2021, 04:23:30 PM
For fuck's sake Baruch, you're surrounded and covered by broken glass already.

Put down the bag of stones and try for some humility.
Baruch is just as broken as trump.  He is simply addled. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 06:06:49 PM
Nobody is getting arrested? As far as I understand very few amount of people got arrested at least. This is bad.

So they are trying to convince him to address these people live and tell them to stay down? Because they will be there tomorrow, the next opportunity I'm telling you. Those freaks are not going anywhere.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 06:36:38 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 04:45:49 PM
Shut the fuck up kindly.

They all made fun of that drunk, Yeltsin ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6P7IckXkaY

So did Yeltsin overthrow Soviet communists?  Will Trump overthrow American communists?

Have you overthrown Ergogan yet?  Just asking.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 06:39:09 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 06, 2021, 05:31:23 PM
Baruch is just as broken as trump.  He is simply addled.

I don't have 70 million followers.  Yes, Biden is 100% winner of E German election, comrade.  How about China nukes the US, to insure their world conquest?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on January 06, 2021, 06:47:17 PM
Now in Social media the right is shifting the blame and attacking the left. My Facebook is flooded with these people who justify the event and snobbishly say the 2020 Summer protests were worse and shit on the left.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 06, 2021, 06:51:18 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 06:06:49 PM
Nobody is getting arrested? As far as I understand very few amount of people got arrested at least. This is bad.

So they are trying to convince him to address these people live and tell them to stay down? Because they will be there tomorrow, the next opportunity I'm telling you. Those freaks are not going anywhere.
Arrested?  Why?  None of them are black.  No arrested needed here--just ask trump.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 06:59:21 PM
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on January 06, 2021, 06:47:17 PM
Now in Social media the right is shifting the blame and attacking the left. My Facebook is flooded with these people who justify the event and snobbishly say the 2020 Summer protests were worse and shit on the left.

As I posted elsewhere .. COINTELPRO ... MK Ultra .. we will never know.  But y'all with Left clairvoyance can "see" into the heart of darkness.

Correct Mike CL, kill all the Whites, because of 160 years ago (Dems not Reps).

Easy to tell the Left agent provocateurs ... they have the most expensive Starbucks drinks while rioting ... all last year.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 06:59:53 PM
Quote from: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 06:36:38 PM
...  Just asking.

No, you are not saying or asking anything. You are babbling. There are 2 people in the whole forum who haven't blocked you and can see your posts besides the mods. You piss me off. What are you trying to prove? What are you, 6?!

Don't you feel something? Anything? Look at it. It's not some 3rd world country. The floor staff have gabbed the Electoral Vote ballots and hid them, so they wouldn't be burnt by a mob. A mob that was called there to create violence, stop an official, legitimate process in the Capitol building, in the capital city, by the fucking president.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2021, 07:01:54 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 06:59:53 PM
No, you are not saying or asking anything. You are babbling. There are 2 people in the whole forum who haven't blocked you and can see your posts besides the mods. You piss me off. What are you trying to prove? What are you, 6?!

Don't you feel something? Anything? Look at it. It's not some 3rd world country. The floor staff have gabbed the Electoral Vote ballots and hid them, so they wouldn't be burnt by a mob. A mob that was called there to create violence, stop an official, legitimate process in the Capitol building, in the capital city, by the fucking president.

Black me?  I am BLM ... Burn Loot Murder ... Stalin did nothing wrong.  There is no legitimate US, ever.  We will never know who was violent, because CIA/FBI work for CCP.

"Trump urges protesters to 'stay peaceful' amid violent Capitol Hill confrontation" ... well Orange Satan would do that ;-)  I remember when the Left was pacifist (to help the Soviet Union).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 07:04:30 PM
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on January 06, 2021, 06:47:17 PM
Now in Social media the right is shifting the blame and attacking the left. My Facebook is flooded with these people who justify the event and snobbishly say the 2020 Summer protests were worse and shit on the left.

I watched a Rep. official keep saying that 'things were fanned at both sides' in a brazen manner on NBC. ? For a whole 10 minutes he spewed bullshit on bullshit. Ew.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on January 06, 2021, 07:12:44 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 06:59:53 PM
No, you are not saying or asking anything. You are babbling. There are 2 people in the whole forum who haven't blocked you and can see your posts besides the mods. You piss me off. What are you trying to prove? What are you, 6?!

Don't you feel something? Anything? Look at it. It's not some 3rd world country. The floor staff have gabbed the Electoral Vote ballots and hid them, so they wouldn't be burnt by a mob. A mob that was called there to create violence, stop an official, legitimate process in the Capitol building, in the capital city, by the fucking president.

Baruch

The ghost of neurons;
his wailing scattered by wind.
Self-made and see-through.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 07:14:05 PM
Thank fuck. Twitter has locked his account for 12 hours.

E: Apparently they have also deleted the last 3. Wouldn't be amazing if they really suspended the account indefinitely? LOL
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 06, 2021, 07:15:25 PM
I believe the correct term for protests of this magnitude is "mostly peaceful".
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 06, 2021, 07:24:04 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 06:59:53 PM
No, you are not saying or asking anything. You are babbling. There are 2 people in the whole forum who haven't blocked you and can see your posts besides the mods. You piss me off. What are you trying to prove? What are you, 6?!

Don't you feel something? Anything? Look at it. It's not some 3rd world country. The floor staff have gabbed the Electoral Vote ballots and hid them, so they wouldn't be burnt by a mob. A mob that was called there to create violence, stop an official, legitimate process in the Capitol building, in the capital city, by the fucking president.
Shoe, why do you keep banging your head against this brick wall?  This is what Baruch is:

provocateur
[ pruh-vok-uh-tur, -toor; French praw-vaw-ka-tÅ"r ]SHOW IPA

SEE SYNONYMS FOR provocateur ON THESAURUS.COM
noun, plural pro·vo·ca·teurs  [pruh-vok-uh-turz, -toorz; French praw-vaw-ka-tÅ"r].
a person who provokes trouble, causes dissension, or the like; agitator.

He does not care about any of this.  He only wants to get a 'rise' out of you.  And you fall for it all the time.  He has no ethics, morals, cares for nothing, except maybe himself.  Like trump, most of what comes from his messages are lies.  He cares not what the facts are. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 07:27:33 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 06, 2021, 07:12:44 PM
Baruch

The ghost of neurons;
his wailing scattered by wind.
Self-made and see-through.


LOL. Does he really believe that these people are 'playing' this violent mob as a result of some covet CIA experiments? I have no idea. But it doesn't look good. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 07:29:26 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 06, 2021, 07:15:25 PM
I believe the correct term for protests of this magnitude is "mostly peaceful".

Come again?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 07:31:44 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 06, 2021, 07:24:04 PM
Shoe, why do you keep banging your head against this brick wall?

Because he wasn't like this relatively a short time ago, and I don't want to believe it is that simple, I guess. I can't help it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 06, 2021, 07:54:08 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 06, 2021, 07:15:25 PM
I believe the correct term for protests of this magnitude is "mostly peaceful".

You have the option to not be a worthless twat, and yet you choose to be one anyways.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 06, 2021, 07:56:38 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 07:27:33 PM
LOL. Does he really believe that these people are 'playing' this violent mob as a result of some covet CIA experiments? I have no idea. But it doesn't look good.
Shoe, he doesn't care one way or the other.  All he wants to do is to get you to answer him--he is an empty human in all aspects of being human.  He is basically insane--he actually believes in a 'G_D' that is just like him--acts on whim and cares for nothing.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 06, 2021, 07:57:30 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 06, 2021, 07:54:08 PM
You have the option to not be a worthless twat, and yet you choose to be one anyways.

The people who were supporting violent protests are now opposed to violent protests.  And the people who were opposed to violent protests are now supporting violent protests.  Yet I'm the worthless twat.

This country has been in a cold civil war for some years now.  Is this going to be the spark to the powderkeg is the only question I have.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 06, 2021, 08:04:12 PM
You have a very damaged (and likely dishonest) recollection.  Violence was the very thing being protested FFS and OFC no one here actually supported violence.

So yes, yes you are.  You have to lie to support your argument because if you don't you don't have a leg to stand on and you know it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 06, 2021, 08:04:23 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 06, 2021, 07:57:30 PM
The people who were supporting violent protests are now opposed to violent protests.  And the people who were opposed to violent protests are now supporting violent protests.  Yet I'm the worthless twat.

This country has been in a cold civil war for some years now.  Is this going to be the spark to the powderkeg is the only question I have.

People who were supporting violent protests were fucking morons.

The thing is your lot declared that anyone and everyone who supported the 93% of peaceful protests were also "people who supported violent protest." and of that 7% much of it was instigated by right-wing agitators and the police attacking peaceful protestors.

So get the fuck out of here with that bad faith bullshit.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 06, 2021, 08:10:14 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Wc5493Dl.jpg)

Aged like milk
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 08:12:51 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 06, 2021, 07:56:38 PM
Shoe, he doesn't care one way or the other.  All he wants to do is to get you to answer him--he is an empty human in all aspects of being human.  He is basically insane--he actually believes in a 'G_D' that is just like him--acts on whim and cares for nothing.

Seriously? :lol: Is there something wrong with one of his eyes? Look at it. G_D The left eye looks injured.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 08:28:46 PM
Schumer. Enjoyed to hear a direct accusation, certainly the term 'domestic terrorism'. Republicans will fall short after whatever they say today. I wonder how many votes they lost tonight.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 06, 2021, 08:37:24 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 06, 2021, 08:04:12 PM
You have a very damaged (and likely dishonest) recollection.  Violence was the very thing being protested FFS and OFC no one here actually supported violence.

So yes, yes you are.  You have to lie to support your argument because if you don't you don't have a leg to stand on and you know it.

It's funny how the guy who "criticizes both sides" can't bring himself to call this riot for what it is: A shameful display of ignorant rednecks trying to destroy democracy, called to action by our own President.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 06, 2021, 08:42:57 PM
Apparently, Pelosi said that Mike Pense, the VICE President, was consulted for calling in the National Guard today. It's not the Vice President's job to call the National Guard; it's the President's job. That's an interesting turn of events... Some are saying we might be seeing the application of the 25th amendment, declaring the President unfit and letting the Vice President take over for him. Probably not, but it's an interesting possibility to consider. I think it's more likely that everyone in the White House has always considered Pence the more stable of the two and have called on him instead when needed.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 06, 2021, 08:47:34 PM
Apparently history is being rewritten so that the "mostly peaceful" protests are now entirely peaceful so that they can be contrasted to the current ones.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 06, 2021, 08:47:43 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 08:28:46 PM
Schumer. Enjoyed to hear a direct accusation, certainly the term 'domestic terrorism'. Republicans will fall short after whatever they say today. I wonder how many votes they lost tonight.
On the news, they sometimes slip up and call them "protestors".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAKfFLuKXnQ

"Protestors"
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on January 06, 2021, 08:52:49 PM
.......Looting........
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErFJXBsVEAI9UAf?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 06, 2021, 08:55:58 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 06, 2021, 08:47:34 PM
Apparently history is being rewritten so that the "mostly peaceful" protests are now entirely peaceful so that they can be contrasted to the current ones.

Apparently, you have to downplay the hundreds of people invading the White House in an attempt to stop an election they lost so you can make it seem like less of a big deal than black people getting tired of being assaulted and murdered by the police. You know, those protests where the police proved them right by blatantly assaulting protesters on national TV? You don't have an ounce of credibility. Despite claiming to be an outsider looking in, you're the most biased among us.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 08:58:40 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 06, 2021, 08:47:43 PM
Oh the news, they sometimes slip up and call them "protestors".

Ooof. Poor guy.

Don't you think they have actually lost their 'protestor' status when Trump called them there with an obvious manner to do, under those circumstances? Sure, they could have chosen not to. But acting like some people didn't go for this or that the president didn't know about is so stupid. It would be awesome if some people sued him. How about the dead woman's family for example? 

PS An objection drop. LOL
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 06, 2021, 09:00:51 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 06, 2021, 08:47:43 PM
Oh the news, they sometimes slip up and call them "protestors".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAKfFLuKXnQ

"Protestors"

I heard at least 50 more warnings to "back up" than would have been given to a BLM protester.

Quote from: Cassia on January 06, 2021, 08:52:49 PM
.......Looting........
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErFJXBsVEAI9UAf?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Smile for the camera, moron! It's not like there's a thing called the internet that will make it easy to track you down. Oh wait!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 06, 2021, 09:01:40 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 06, 2021, 08:47:34 PM
Apparently history is being rewritten so that the "mostly peaceful" protests are now entirely peaceful so that they can be contrasted to the current ones.
Apparently, you are like trump in that you get all tangled up in your lies and forget what is real and what isn't. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 09:10:22 PM
'Astonishing': Clarissa Ward shocked by Turkey's press release

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2021/01/06/world-reaction-trump-supporters-storm-capital-ward-vpx.cnn 

:lol: Clarissa is a bit short on usual commercials.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 06, 2021, 09:14:48 PM
Quote from: Cassia on January 06, 2021, 08:52:49 PM
.......Looting........
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErFJXBsVEAI9UAf?format=jpg&name=900x900)
He's gonna have a fun visit by the Feds later on.  A lot of people who thought they got away with this scot free will.  And the end result isn't going to be a reversal of the election or a cowing of Trump's opponents - it's going to be jail time for a lot of idiots and yet another black stain on the GOP.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 09:24:10 PM
It is going to be terrible for Republicans. The moment they start to get carried away, fall to some odd position... they will get something about today. Well, I don't know it very well, but their confidence is probably shaken.

However, as I said before that crowd doesn't look like they would give up and return home after a day. Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 06, 2021, 09:28:03 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 06, 2021, 09:14:48 PM
He's gonna have a fun visit by the Feds later on.  A lot of people who thought they got away with this scot free will.  And the end result isn't going to be a reversal of the election or a cowing of Trump's opponents - it's going to be jail time for a lot of idiots and yet another black stain on the GOP.
I hope you are right!  I am kind of in a won't believe it until I see it, mode right now.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 06, 2021, 10:00:24 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on January 06, 2021, 08:42:57 PM
Apparently, Pelosi said that Mike Pense, the VICE President, was consulted for calling in the National Guard today. It's not the Vice President's job to call the National Guard; it's the President's job. That's an interesting turn of events... Some are saying we might be seeing the application of the 25th amendment, declaring the President unfit and letting the Vice President take over for him. Probably not, but it's an interesting possibility to consider. I think it's more likely that everyone in the White House has always considered Pence the more stable of the two and have called on him instead when needed.
Pence was the obvious choice to take action when the president refused to act.  Somebody needed to do something, and sometimes it turns out to be a bystander when the person in charge freezes.  Debates about who's worse, the liberals or the Trumpsters, are a deflection to avoid the point.  The thing about today's events are without question the freakiest thing I've ever seen sanctioned by a branch of the American Government.  The president and a handful of minions incites a mob and then watches it on television like some kind of reality show without lifting a finger.  It will seem even weirder tomorrow after we've had more time to assimilate what we watched.  And I think most people will agree that we should have seen it coming. 

I had to take a break, but I just tuned back into my live stream to see if the Senate had certified the vote yet, and some senator was speaking.  He talked about other countries watching us and added, "Are we going to tell our kids that this is the real America? ... Because it is NOT My America."  The thing is that everyone watched this today.  It was an observable snapshot of who we are.  It happened, and saying it's not who we are doesn't change the fact that it was right in front of us.  And people in other countries saw it too.  Are they supposed to think that was not America?  We may not have liked it, but we weren't watching some banana republic.  It was us.  The wheels will be spinning for weeks blaming, defending, deflecting, telling more lies, and pointing out each other's hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 06, 2021, 10:04:22 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 06, 2021, 09:14:48 PM
it's going to be jail time for a lot of idiots and yet another black stain on the GOP.
Trump will pardon them.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 06, 2021, 10:15:46 PM
QuoteNYT 
Twitter locked President Trump’s account, demanding that he delete tweets that appeared to incite violence, and threatened a permanent suspension.
Freaky, no?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 06, 2021, 10:44:59 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 06, 2021, 08:47:34 PM
Apparently history is being rewritten so that the "mostly peaceful" protests are now entirely peaceful so that they can be contrasted to the current ones.

History isn't being rewritten, you're just being called on your delusions.

By the way, what was that again about Republicans don't violently protest?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/georgias-secretary-state-evacuated-protesters-descend-state-capitol (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/georgias-secretary-state-evacuated-protesters-descend-state-capitol)
Quote
Georgia (https://www.foxnews.com/category/us/us-regions/southeast/georgia) Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger and his staff were evacuated from their office Wednesday afternoon after armed protesters gathered outside the state Capitol, officials said.
Gabriel Sterling, a top elections official, said Wednesday that it was an internal decision made by Raffensperger.


It was a scene similar to what unfolded in D.C., where supporters of the president stormed the U.S. Capitol in a chaotic protest aimed at thwarting the Electoral College certification, forcing lawmakers to be rushed from the building.
And good to see you, Munch. What a surprise to see you still justifying right-wing violence.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 06, 2021, 10:58:47 PM
West Virginian lawmaker caught on film in the mob of insurrectionists who assaulted the Capitol today. Reports are that a Pennsylvania state senator was also caught on camera.

https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-electoral-college-tally-live-updates/2021/01/06/954227854/video-shows-newly-elected-w-va-lawmaker-among-mob-that-stormed-the-u-s-capitol?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-electoral-college-tally-live-updates/2021/01/06/954227854/video-shows-newly-elected-w-va-lawmaker-among-mob-that-stormed-the-u-s-capitol?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 07, 2021, 12:01:12 AM
Seems like a good time to bust this out again:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXC-ctCUMAAl5D4?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on January 07, 2021, 12:12:07 AM
They need to immediately use the 25th amendment and get this shit for brains out of there.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 07, 2021, 12:31:05 AM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on January 07, 2021, 12:12:07 AM
They need to immediately use the 25th amendment and get this shit for brains out of there.
At the very least, a 2nd round of impeachment.  This shit won't be tolerated.  It's one thing to be a clown on twitter, it's an entirely different matter for the sitting President to incite a mob and put people's lives at risk as part of some bizarre coup attempt, all because he's too stupid to know that he lost an election.

Part of the reason this happened is because bad actors have yet to encounter consequences in any real way.  That needs to change.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on January 07, 2021, 01:09:55 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 06, 2021, 08:47:34 PM
Apparently history is being rewritten so that the "mostly peaceful" protests are now entirely peaceful so that they can be contrasted to the current ones.
Show me the screenshot where Black Lives Matter stormed the capitol building and forced the Republican-led congress to flee. I'll wait.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 07, 2021, 01:57:05 AM
https://twitter.com/i/status/1346958925766164481

Peaceful protesters smash in window to enter government building. You know, to peacefully demonstrate their concerns with non-violence, the Republican way?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 07, 2021, 02:23:02 AM
So they managed to find this genius...

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/01/06/us/politics/06dc-protest-blog-barnett/06dc-protest-blog-barnett-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp)

Richard Bigo Barnett is his name. He claims he didn't steal the letter because he, "put a quarter on her (Pelosi's) desk." Yeah, I'm sure that'll hold up in court. If he's not in jail in the next 6 hours, that's some bullshit.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 07, 2021, 04:03:01 AM
So Congress is FINALLY heading home, nearly 4 in the morning.

Let me put this bluntly, that biased or not you have to accept is the reality...

121 Representatives re-affirmed that, even after this violence, they refuse to accept the legitimacy of Biden's presidency.

6 Senators, the Seditious Six led by Ted Cruz, re-affirmed that, even after this violence, they refuse to accept the legitimacy of Biden's presidency.

In the end, the President of the United States was essentially banned from making public remarks and the Vice President had to overstep his authority and do something he isn't allowed to do by law in calling the national guard to help put down an insurrection attempt that was aided and abetted by the DC police... national guard that the Mayor of DC asked for yesterday and the President refused to send.

And why was the President banned from Twitter, his microphone to the public? Because 3 times he praised the people who were violently storming the Capitol building, told them he loved them and supported them, after spending the last 2 months telling them to be angry, to not accept a peaceful transition of power.

Four people died laying siege to our capitol because of conspiracy theory bullshit that 34% of Americans believe in.

Let me repeat that... Four people died laying siege to our capitol because of a conspiracy theory... a conspiracy theory peddled by a failed businessman and several Senator's who place their political ambitions above the good of the people, even if it meant violence... the same folly that killed the Roman Republic before us.

That is January 6th, 2021, summed up in the least biased way I can think of.

If you are still "BuT bOtH sIdEs!!!" after this, you are not a libertarian, you are not a conservative, you are not a kek-lawlz-woke... you are a useful fucking idiot and not a shred more, plain and simple.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 07, 2021, 06:17:39 AM
Something real needs to be done with social media platforms. As long as people live in deliberately constructed delusions for more profit, there is no end to how far this shit will go. Odds are what we call batshit crazy now will look like some kindergarten material around 2030s.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 07, 2021, 06:28:53 AM
https://gadgets.ndtv.com/apps/news/whatsapp-privacy-policy-terms-update-february-8-2021-changes-2348361

WhatsApp Privacy Policy, Terms of Service Update Makes Facebook Data Sharing Mandatory

QuoteWhatsApp users will be required to either accept the updated privacy policy and terms of service or lose their access to the app from February 8, 2021.

The most notable changes that exist on both updated privacy policy and terms of service are around how WhatsApp shares information with Facebook and its subsidiaries.

“The information we share with the other Facebook Companies includes your account registration information (such as your phone number), transaction data, service-related information, information on how you interact with others (including businesses) when using our Services, mobile device information, your IP address, and may include other information identified in the Privacy Policy section entitled ‘Information We Collect' or obtained upon notice to you or based on your consent,” WhatsApp noted in a dedicated FAQ section detailing the information it shares with Facebook's companies.

Prior to the latest update, existing users were provided with the option to choose not to have their WhatsApp account information shared with Facebook. This, however, seems to be not the case this time.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on January 07, 2021, 07:19:13 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 07, 2021, 06:17:39 AM
Something real needs to be done with social media platforms. As long as people live in deliberately constructed delusions for more profit, there is no end to how far this shit will go. Odds are what we call batshit crazy now will look like some kindergarten material around 2030s.

This is what really bothers me. Yesterday's events were a consequence of social media. Donald Trump could not have even been elected without Twitter. Some people think of social media as a neutral format, like a virtual town square or an online forum, but it's not neutral because it's monetized and designed to manipulate and be addictive. The social media feed of a Trump supporter reflects a very different America from the social media feed of a Biden supporter. Unfortunately, there isn't an easy solution. We are going to have to adapt as individuals and as societies because the genie is out of the bottle.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on January 07, 2021, 07:34:54 AM
"Even though I totally disagree with the outcome of the election, and the facts bear me out, nevertheless there will be an orderly transition on January 20th," Trump said in the statement shared by Dan Scavino, the White House deputy chief of staff for communications. "I have always said we would continue our... fight to ensure that only legal votes were counted. While this represents the end of the greatest first term in presidential history, it's only the beginning of our fight to Make America Great Again!"

Trump cannot be trusted. He needs to be impeached.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on January 07, 2021, 08:14:17 AM
Every Representative and every Senator who voted for any of the objections yesterday and early this morning, by giving credence to lunatic conspiracy theories and outright lies about the 2020 election, is complicit in the civil blasphemy that occurred yesterday.  And Donald J Trump is guilty of seditious incitement.  To use his own words, "it is what it is".
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 07, 2021, 08:53:57 AM
Quote
NYT
“We’re seeing more and more citizens expressing openness to violence,” Lee Drutman, a political scientist, told me almost three months ago, “as more and more partisan leaders engage in the kinds of dehumanizing rhetoric that paves the way for taking violent action.”
This observation was made 3 months ago, which I believe is 20 years too late.  Hate radio started advocating this crap even earlier than that under the umbrella of free speech.  Free speech is important in a democracy, but there should be stronger penalties for yelling fire in a theater.  This is not intended to deflect responsibility from Trump.  In his position, the "bully pulpit" takes on a clearer meaning of what bully behavior actually is.  Trump may be worse than than the worst talk radio hosts, but that should not be used to defend the hate mongers that roam the airwaves either. Political leaders that facilitate the process should also be held accountable.  Twitter being the leader in the cleanup doesn't exactly reflect well on our system.  It's kind of a joke.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 07, 2021, 08:57:29 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on January 07, 2021, 07:19:13 AM
This is what really bothers me. Yesterday's events were a consequence of social media. Donald Trump could not have even been elected without Twitter. Some people think of social media as a neutral format, like a virtual town square or an online forum, but it's not neutral because it's monetized and designed to manipulate and be addictive. The social media feed of a Trump supporter reflects a very different America from the social media feed of a Biden supporter. Unfortunately, there isn't an easy solution. We are going to have to adapt as individuals and as societies because the genie is out of the bottle.

Agreed. But Facebook is the most dangerous one if you ask me, because it is a far more detailed, most effective one in creating rabbit holes.

The thing is, these platforms have managed to impose on people that as a price of certain kind of convenience(s), they will be traced and fed ads, recorded relentlessly. When people realised about what they now call 'the great hack', it was far gone, already done. Sites came before apps. Apps just made it perfect.

Now, in this phase after that if you talk about this with people, they mostly say 'oh well they have already hear/listen and know everything about me, so it is futile. It's just ads and stuff I buy anyway. It's to get my attention to what I like, what I'm interested in.' 

The big problem is that obviously this has become more than that some time ago, though it is the core mechanism. As far as I understand from docus and blogs...etc, it's about changing people; so being able to create variations that can be measured and controlled, and so manipulated -it doesn't matter what the content is in anyway- and that's how the addiction and the rabbit hole cycle gets real.

I've watched the new Social Dilemma documentary. However, I have failed to see the famous 'dilemma' at this point and also found the solutions offered there pretty pointless, pretty manipulative. Although it pretends to offer different opinions on some scale of so called pesimists to optimists, it actually imposes the very idea that there is no way out of this -"checkmate on humanity"- goes to some evolutionary psyhology angle, addiciton... to explain it and offers the same tech itself as a solution -what the fuck does "humane  technology" mean, this is made for profit- and furthermore this is also voiced by some young experts -some turned activists- a couple of them keeps saying thing like 'we invented the like button because we thought people would like it!'.

Yeah...I get that people who create/design these platforms are considered as smart kids, but the generation gap tells me that they were subjected to their own bullshit a bit too long, if they think anyone with two brain cells to rub together will buy that bullshit. Then I doubt if anyone really knows what are those algorithms really, precisely capable of anymore as I said before.

But 'the checkmate humanity' angle is pretty much the same, stale bullshit with the first phase imposition that ended with 'it is futile' brainwashing.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 07, 2021, 09:07:22 AM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on January 07, 2021, 12:12:07 AM
They need to immediately use the 25th amendment and get this shit for brains out of there.
Somehow, I don't see Pence doing that.  He may have called the police when Trump wouldn't, but he's still a lap dog.  Isn't it the responsibility of the vice president to enforce the 25th, I actually don't know, but I've heard this mentioned.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on January 07, 2021, 09:53:50 AM
Quote from: SGOS on January 07, 2021, 09:07:22 AM
Somehow, I don't see Pence doing that.  He may have called the police when Trump wouldn't, but he's still a lap dog.  Isn't it the responsibility of the vice president to enforce the 25th, I actually don't know, but I've heard this mentioned.
He's a fucking unic.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 07, 2021, 10:19:42 AM
And the beat goes on................
Capitol riot was false-flag operation by leftists, Trump backers claim, with no basis
https://www.yahoo.com/news/capitol-riot-was-falseflag-operation-by-leftists-trump-backers-claim-with-no-basis-051703320.html

One of the first to push this narrative was Rep. Mo Brooks, an Alabama Republican and part of a small group of Trump loyalists who’d pledged to challenge the Electoral College results from several states during Wednesday’s joint session of Congress in an ill-fated final attempt to undo Trump’s defeat. “Rumor: ANTIFA fascists in backwards MAGA hats,” Brooks tweeted from the locked-down Capitol where he was taking cover from the mob. “Time will tell what truth is.”

Unbelievable.......................except these days, it is simply commonplace.  Nothing is done about it. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on January 07, 2021, 10:28:45 AM
At this rate, Biden will be one of the most successful presidents if he merely manages to not enter into a full scale civil war in the next four years.

That alone will take some goddamned willpower, patience and tactical diffusing. All in the hopes that four years of not advancing but mending will give the American nation the time it needs to heal.

He'll have more than enough work cut out for him, clearing out the wreckage Trump dumped on the road forward.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 07, 2021, 10:32:52 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2021, 09:10:22 PM
'Astonishing': Clarissa Ward shocked by Turkey's press release

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2021/01/06/world-reaction-trump-supporters-storm-capital-ward-vpx.cnn 

:lol: Clarissa is a bit short on usual commercials.

All "world leaders" are highly trained Marxists, going back decades.  Comintern.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: the_antithesis on January 07, 2021, 10:36:27 AM
It'll never heal until we get rid of the scabs.

Good thing they refuse to wear a mask.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on January 07, 2021, 10:37:13 AM
Quote from: SGOS on January 07, 2021, 09:07:22 AM
Somehow, I don't see Pence doing that.  He may have called the police when Trump wouldn't, but he's still a lap dog.  Isn't it the responsibility of the vice president to enforce the 25th, I actually don't know, but I've heard this mentioned.
My reading is that it can go either way -- either the Cabinet can bring a majority of the 15 principal officers1 (not all Cabinet or Cabinet-level officers) to the VP and advise that they believe the President no longer has the capacity to execute his office, or the VP can work with them on such a declaration.  It requires both a majority of the principal officers, and the Vice President's agreement.

----
1: Specifically, the secretaries of State, Treasury, Defense, the Attorney General, and the secretaries of the Interior, Agriculture, Commerce, Labor, HHS, HUD, Transportation, Energy, Education, Veterans Affairs and Homeland Security (which office is currently vacant)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 07, 2021, 10:39:14 AM
Quote from: the_antithesis on January 07, 2021, 10:36:27 AM
It'll never heal until we get rid of the scabs.

Good thing they refuse to wear a mask.

Pro labor union?  Good for you.  I thought that was extinct.

Yes, the government can %*%&$ itself up.  Good thing, it is totally incompetent.

So who will go to the Biden Senility inaugural?  (rhetorical question)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 07, 2021, 10:57:19 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 07, 2021, 10:19:42 AM
And the beat goes on................
Capitol riot was false-flag operation by leftists, Trump backers claim, with no basis
https://www.yahoo.com/news/capitol-riot-was-falseflag-operation-by-leftists-trump-backers-claim-with-no-basis-051703320.html

One of the first to push this narrative was Rep. Mo Brooks, an Alabama Republican and part of a small group of Trump loyalists who’d pledged to challenge the Electoral College results from several states during Wednesday’s joint session of Congress in an ill-fated final attempt to undo Trump’s defeat. “Rumor: ANTIFA fascists in backwards MAGA hats,” Brooks tweeted from the locked-down Capitol where he was taking cover from the mob. “Time will tell what truth is.”

Unbelievable.......................except these days, it is simply commonplace.  Nothing is done about it. 
That wasn't Mo Brooks from Alabama.  It was an ANTIFA guy dressed like him that was inciting the mob. Damned Commie Leftists and their false flags.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 07, 2021, 12:48:11 PM
Quote from: SGOS on January 07, 2021, 10:57:19 AM
That wasn't Mo Brooks from Alabama.  It was an ANTIFA guy dressed like him that was inciting the mob. Damned Commie Leftists and their false flags.

Double agents, triple agents .. have you never seen any Bond movies?  Aren't you ... slightly stirred ;-)

One person dies of gunshot (not a liberal), three people die of medical emergency ... and my triple soy latte is cold .. the world is coming to an end! ... call out the National Guard FOTFL.  Stalin laughs.

The woman who died was unarmed of course.  Another man was shot to death by police elsewhere in the protest (don't know if he was packing).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 07, 2021, 02:01:52 PM
Quote from: SGOS on January 07, 2021, 10:57:19 AMThat wasn't Mo Brooks from Alabama.  It was an ANTIFA guy dressed like him that was inciting the mob. Damned Commie Leftists and their false flags.
These people will piss on your leg and tell you that another guy did it.  They're manipulative weasels who can't handle reality and think you're just as easily fooled.  They need to be put back in their place and ushered away from the corridors of power.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on January 07, 2021, 02:26:24 PM
There will not be a civil war. Drunks with guns vs. arclight raids.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 07, 2021, 02:51:26 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 07, 2021, 02:01:52 PM
These people will piss on your leg and tell you that another guy did it. ...

Naah, they would try 'oh it's apple juice' first and then ask if you want to buy some more home made. If you say no, they will tell you to pay up for the one you spilled. 

-------------------

They don't think you guys are fooled. They don't care what you think about it. They just know very well that if they make up batshit crazy stuff and keep screaming their head off, stomping their feet, it will be a story to believe and something to tell the children about that night: 'history'. They live on by making up victimhoods. Making shit up, compartmentalize the hell out of everything and then pretend it's real all their lives. They have a life time training for it. I wouldn't be surprised if they have a ceremony and t-shirts made that read on "6th of January socialist conspiracy failed, Trump strong", using dead people as an excuse to carry this further.

They are all the same. Same shit is going on here. Exactly the same shit. If millions came together and tried haaaard to make them the same in this way, we wouldn't be able to in a fucking 1000 years. They need to do this to survive...because they are all aware that there is no fucking excuse for anything they do.

Guys, in 2012 a scum has killed 20 babies and two adults. First they claimed that it was a plot by the commies to take their guns away and then developed to screaming it has never happened. And since then, the fucking net is full of sites and shit pile on what a hoax is Sandy Hook massacre. It's everywhere.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 07, 2021, 03:50:54 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/us/politics/trump-self-pardon.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210107&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=129705843&segment_id=48668&user_id=33a2a6e6868fd65c48b0f219d16ed7c2

NYT
QuoteWhite House counsel, Pat A. Cipollone, warned Mr. Trump that he could face legal exposure for the riot given that he had urged his supporters to march to the Capitol and “fight” beforehand, according to people briefed on the discussion. The president had appeared to White House aides to be enjoying watching the scenes play out on television.
This quote is mostly a side bar to an article about Trump discussions with advisors concerning pardoning himself. While I found the question of a self pardon puzzling and interesting, I was more distracted by his enjoyment over watching his supporters riot in his behalf.  I'm for the 25th Amendment proposal, but I just don't see it happening.  It's almost too close to the end to bother.  Its purpose would be to send a message, one that certainly needs to be sent.  The pardon would definitely be related to this, but he was looking into a pardon long before yesterday, so he was either planning this all along, or he has committed some other crime that is going to surface.

As I expected, my perception of yesterday has changed.  Yesterday, I was shocked by the Capitol riot.  Today it's more about the man who wants to overturn democracy for his own selfish ends.  He won't get away with it, of course, but I don't think that should be the end of it.  It won't be for him, of course, because he doesn't plan to let it go,  but it should not be the end of it for America either. Presidents should not be allowed to get away this sedition and inciting riots against the country.  It's stranger to me today that it was yesterday.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 07, 2021, 04:06:45 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 06, 2021, 07:15:25 PM
I believe the correct term for protests of this magnitude is "mostly peaceful".

Yeah, like "they mostly come out at night...mostly..."
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 07, 2021, 04:57:02 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 07, 2021, 10:28:45 AM
At this rate, Biden will be one of the most successful presidents if he merely manages to not enter into a full scale civil war in the next four years.

That alone will take some goddamned willpower, patience and tactical diffusing. All in the hopes that four years of not advancing but mending will give the American nation the time it needs to heal.

He'll have more than enough work cut out for him, clearing out the wreckage Trump dumped on the road forward.


Trump isn't yet finished with the massive dump he's taking on America. He's still got nearly 2 weeks to do even more damage. After all, he really has little to lose since he's likely to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law once he's out of office.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 07, 2021, 05:08:51 PM
I expect that the San Diego woman who was killed will soon be called a martyr for the cause, and a real patriot who gave her life for her country.

Funny how we can say "country," but we can't say "cunt."

How much more of this kind of crap will we see in the next couple of weeks?

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 07, 2021, 05:15:33 PM
I read in The Better Angels of Our Nature that when cheaters and other bad actors are not punished the bad acting continues and even escalates. We've been letting too many people get away with too much for decades, and then we wonder why this kind of shit happens.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 07, 2021, 05:46:11 PM
Republican calls for Trump to be immediately removed from office (https://www.newsweek.com/rep-adam-kinzinger-becomes-first-republican-call-trumps-removal-office-25th-amendment-1559747)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 07, 2021, 05:59:57 PM
"TRUMP DECLARES DEFEAT, PENCE DECLARES BIDEN PRESIDENT-ELECT, BUT THE CRISIS IS ONLY ESCALATING" ... now civil war is mandated ;-(  I hope you love your Chinese masters and their fentanyl.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 07, 2021, 06:03:02 PM
I doubt that will happen, Hydra, but I hope I'm wrong.

At least now maybe America will wake the fuck up and realize that politics is too important to be left to the politicians.

The whole world can now see just what America is becoming - a banana split republic.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Baruch on January 07, 2021, 06:05:47 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 07, 2021, 06:03:02 PM
I doubt that will happen, Hydra, but I hope I'm wrong.

At least now maybe America will wake the fuck up and realize that politics is too important to be left to the politicians.

The whole world can now see just what America is becoming - a banana split republic.

Now y'all can rob, rape and murder like the druggies you are?  Tobacco and alcohol going back to Jamestown.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on January 07, 2021, 06:07:34 PM
Quote from: Baruch on January 07, 2021, 05:59:57 PM
"TRUMP DECLARES DEFEAT, PENCE DECLARES BIDEN PRESIDENT-ELECT, BUT THE CRISIS IS ONLY ESCALATING" ... now civil war is mandated ;-(  I hope you love your Chinese masters and their fentanyl.
Do I need to put you in a time out?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 07, 2021, 06:09:57 PM
Quote from: Baruch on January 07, 2021, 06:05:47 PM
Now y'all can rob, rape and murder like the druggies you are?  Tobacco and alcohol going back to Jamestown.

Fuck you, Twit!

Why the FUCK are you still fucking posting here when it's obvious that no one wants you here? GO THE FUCK AWAY!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 07, 2021, 06:13:12 PM
Sorry about feeding the fucking forum troll, but damn he's fucking annoying!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: PickelledEggs on January 07, 2021, 06:13:49 PM
Yeah. I'm gonna put Baruch in a time out. I'm all for freedom of speech, but this is fucking dumb. Going to consult the rest of the mods for how long it should actually be, but for now, it's indefinitely. We will get back to you on the solidified length of your vacation.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on January 07, 2021, 06:35:33 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 07, 2021, 06:13:12 PM
Sorry about feeding the fucking forum troll, but damn he's fucking annoying!

Don't feel bad. We all do it from time to time.
Lord knows I do.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on January 07, 2021, 06:39:42 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 07, 2021, 05:46:11 PM
Republican calls for Trump to be immediately removed from office (https://www.newsweek.com/rep-adam-kinzinger-becomes-first-republican-call-trumps-removal-office-25th-amendment-1559747)

One of the comments to that story is refreshing....
.....I regret now ever having voted for the man This is not how we respond as Americans this is very sick and disturbing I'm sorry but Biden won fairly simply because Trump could not handle the pandemic virus and that's the way it is And no, I am not a Democrat BUT THIS IS JUST WRONG ON ALL LEVELS He needs to be removed
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 07, 2021, 07:54:44 PM
Wow, did I just hear Trump concede the election!? I expect it will be too little, too late. The toothpaste cannot be put back into the tube.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 07, 2021, 07:57:15 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on January 07, 2021, 06:13:49 PM
Yeah. I'm gonna put Baruch in a time out. I'm all for freedom of speech, but this is fucking dumb. Going to consult the rest of the mods for how long it should actually be, but for now, it's indefinitely. We will get back to you on the solidified length of your vacation.

Oh, for joy! There really is a God!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 07, 2021, 07:58:00 PM
Update: Death toll is now at 5, one of the CPD officers died to his injuries last night.
Edit: NPR update, he is on life support until family can arrive to say goodbye.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 07, 2021, 08:09:08 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/zVDRPq1.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/85UFqqS.png)

You know, masks would've been a smart idea.  Turns out stupid people are really easy to track down.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 07, 2021, 08:25:20 PM
It will probably take 5 days for the president's cabinet to decide that they won't remove Trump from office,and then another 10 days for Congress to decide it's too late to do anything.  The end of his tenure is so close that it's too tempting to just avoid the whole mess.  In the absence of any constitutional or congressional remedies, Twitter and Facebook (while I'm reluctant to give them much credit) are probably the strongest safeguards we have in place right now to prevent Trump from doing further damage to the country.

I would prefer to see him removed and charged with inciting a mob at a minimum.  Our leaders need to send the message to America that such unbecoming presidential behavior will not be tolerated by future presidents or legislators.  Since that is unlikely to happen, isolation by the media may be all we have.  Beyond that we need the police and the military to contain this, but we should exhaust all non violent safety measures first.

Control or removal should be our first priority, followed by a strong punitive actions, and removal from society until he is judged no longer a threat.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on January 07, 2021, 09:16:47 PM
Let's see now...will Trump will pardon himself and his family?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 07, 2021, 09:26:20 PM
Wouldn't he have to admit wrongdoing for that? He'll never do that, I expect.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 07, 2021, 09:35:26 PM
Quote from: Cassia on January 07, 2021, 09:16:47 PM
Let's see now...will Trump will pardon himself and his family?
I'm sure he will try, but from what I've read, which is not much, I get the idea that constitutional scholars don't know.  There is a lot of stuff in the constitution that depends on good faith which is in short supply, putting a lot of the original ideals to the legal test.  I guess that is what the Supreme Court is for.  But really... Pardoning yourself??  Doesn't that put the president above the law?  To complicate it further, whether he is above the law is a current  debate, with some saying it is a legitimate debate.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 07, 2021, 11:03:36 PM
DeVos resigns (https://www.npr.org/2021/01/07/954725906/devos-resigns-as-education-secretary-says-impressionable-children-are-watching).  She was last seen following Harry Potter and Hermione into the Forbidden Forest.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on January 08, 2021, 12:22:08 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 07, 2021, 09:26:20 PM
Wouldn't he have to admit wrongdoing for that? He'll never do that, I expect.

In principle, the act of accepting a Presidential pardon implicitly carries an admission of guilt, but there is no requirement that an explicit admission be made.  This was the decision laid down in section 28 of the Supreme Court decision in Burdick v United States (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/236/79) in 1915:
QuoteThis brings us to the differences between legislative immunity and a pardon. They are substantial. The latter carries an imputation of guilt; acceptance a confession of it.

Nixon of course only gave a half-assed sort of acceptance of responsibility in accepting his pardon; I'm pretty sure neither Joe Arpaio nor Roger Stone made any sort of conciliatory statement when they got theirs.

A pardon must also be accepted by the recipient; it cannot be forced on someone.  Case in point, the posthumous pardon offered to Susan B Anthony which was rejected on her behalf by the director of the Susan B Anthony Museum (https://www.npr.org/2020/08/20/904321406/susan-b-anthony-museum-rejects-president-trumps-pardon-of-the-suffragette).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 08, 2021, 02:15:52 AM
I'm sure Trump will try to pardon himself before he's even been charged with anything, and his brain dead hypocrites will be all for it. We'll have to wait and see what happens with that. As we've clearly seen, Republicans have no qualms about bending the rules in their favor. "Integrity" is not in their vocabulary.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 08, 2021, 04:56:08 AM
I think my mom,lol, and SGOS are right about something. I kept thinking that this man is salesman and this thing is another bidding, action for him and he has the required psychopathic traits to ignore human life to get on with it... but yeah, more than that it looks like his mind is broken under the power of that chair and the hype the homicidal mass created behind him. Because there is no other explanation. It's either that or nobody has an idea what is actually going on, has gone down for the last 4 years. And in this case, yeah it is the former.

Which by the way, shows that he wasn't a good conman to begin with after all. Why not stepping down and prepare, get stronger for the next season? Because this means, this is infact all a fucking bluff in the end. 

What is it? Is he too scared and terrified? He is acting as if he has some unforseen card, a fifth ace ? in his hand and waiting to drop it. What am I missing?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 08, 2021, 05:24:23 AM
Did you see this? (I saw in Colbert) This people are killing my natural compassion for the crazy and the stupid. Not that I don't have some of both. For anyone who thinks university education is not worth anything, this is one of the things you learn in a real one. You participate in a protest -no, not one of those regular ones- and get maced, get some bludgeoning here and there... And you get something from it, you know. About how the world turns?

Reporter: "Mam, what happened to you?"
Woman: "I got maced."
R:"What hapened, you were trying to go inside the Capitol?"
W:"Yeah, I made it like a foot inside and they pushed me out and they maced me."
R:"What's your name? Where are you from?"
W: "My name is Elizabeth. I'm from Knoxville, Tennessee."
R: "And why did you want to go in?"
W:"We are storming the Capitol, it is a revolution!"

It's a revolution. But she got maced?!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on January 08, 2021, 05:36:04 AM
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/3bee4308d10b14b157f2240924d9a909/cfe456bc22f7b575-00/s1280x1920/159e082164e3cdde94e4d58c413aa1ced66e7093.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 08, 2021, 05:38:24 AM
Please, let's very actively NOT think about that? I live in the Middle East, ya know? :lol:
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on January 08, 2021, 06:46:08 AM
Trump will turn around in a last act of defiance and pardon all the rioters.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 08, 2021, 07:45:01 AM
White Terror Has Always Been America’s Answer

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/white-terror-capitol-riots-america_n_5ff7802ac5b6644fa210a0a7

To suggest pro-Trump Capitol riots don’t “represent who we are” ignores the long history of white supremacy, racial violence and retaliation in this country.

The taking of the capital in DC underscores, for me, just how deeply racist this country is and has been.  It is much more so than I had imagined; all my life I had thought the racism was waning.  I don't think so.  It is very much alive and dangerous.  If the BLM had had that number in a peaceful demonstration, there would have been a much longer rollcall of the dead.  And there would have been 10 times the number of police and they would have been dressed in riot gear.  Instead the insurrectionists  were taking selfies with the cops.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 08, 2021, 08:25:43 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 08, 2021, 04:56:08 AM
I think my mom,lol, and SGOS are right about something. I kept thinking that this man is salesman and this thing is another bidding, action for him and he has the required psychopathic traits to ignore human life to get on with it... but yeah, more than that it looks like his mind is broken under the power of that chair and the hype the homicidal mass created behind him.
Psychologists are ethically bound not to make a public diagnosis unless they have done a personal evaluation.  There is also the matter of doctor/patient confidentiality that holds them back.  God knows what Trump suffers from.  There is probably an array of disorders that make up his personality.  But as the most visible president I can remember, there are lots of traits he displays that tell us that (in your words) "his mind is broke."  I would bet $100 that an evaluation would identify him as a narcissistic sociopath, and probably lots of other things as well.  This diagnosis doesn't make him officially crazy as the DSM manual lists a lot of lesser personality disorders below the level of psychotic and schizophrenic.

Now narcissist doesn't sound that bad, right?  We picture a self centered preen constantly looking in a mirror and loving himself to the extreme, but a narcissist can also be a very dangerous person, capable of the most inhuman acts.

Throughout his term, we have watched his disorders exaggerate, probably due to the pressures of a new environment, which do not give him the imagined control over others that he expected.
Quote
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5, 2013) indicates that a person with NPD possesses at least five of the following nine criteria, typically without possessing the commensurate personal qualities or accomplishments for which they demand respect and status:
Trump only needs 5 of these 9 traits, but it seems to me he has all nine.
Quote
Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g. exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements).

Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love.

Believes that they are "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions).

Requires excessive admiration.

Has a sense of entitlement (i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with their expectations). 

Is interpersonally exploitative (i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve their own ends).

Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others.

Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of them.

Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes.


Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on January 08, 2021, 08:53:14 AM
There is an ongoing conversation among mental health professionals whether it is appropriate to publically discuss the mental health of world leaders. If you've ever had a relationship with someone with a narcissist personality, Trump's behavior is unsurprising. You are correct that when people are under stress personality traits often become more extreme-- paranoid people become more paranoid, dependent people become more dependent.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 08, 2021, 09:47:28 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on January 08, 2021, 08:53:14 AM
You are correct that when people are under stress personality traits often become more extreme-- paranoid people become more paranoid, dependent people become more dependent.
That stress phenomenon has actually been demonstrated and observed.  It's been explained that stress tends to interfere with creative problem solving.  Instead of finding new ways to deal with frustrations, animals revert to previous responses when under duress.  And then they use those responses even when they no longer work. There's a saying often quoted at AA meetings, "The definition of insanity is doing what you always did while expecting different results."  But this bumper sticker wisdom goes way beyond the drinking response of the alcoholic. It's part of human nature, and some humans can't see it and can't make the necessary corrections when it happens.

Consider Trump who ran his own company, thrust into the political environment, where everyone's concerns come into play.  It's a new and perplexing situation, where the old solutions no longer apply.  Inappropriate behavior becomes more an more apparent, and personality disintegration begins.  What people observe is a person who is "losing it."
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 08, 2021, 12:18:55 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on January 06, 2021, 08:55:58 PM
Apparently, you have to downplay the hundreds of people invading the White House in an attempt to stop an election they lost so you can make it seem like less of a big deal than black people getting tired of being assaulted and murdered by the police. You know, those protests where the police proved them right by blatantly assaulting protesters on national TV? You don't have an ounce of credibility. Despite claiming to be an outsider looking in, you're the most biased among us.

Not the White House.  The Capital Building.  Where congress is, not the president.

It is pretty obvious that the country is full of hypocrites right now.

People that ignored or sometimes encouraged riots and called them "peaceful protests" now hate them

People that loved law and order and "back the blue" encouraged storming the U.S. Capitol.

I could spend time coming up with a multitude of examples from last summer, but it wouldn't really be worth it.  We all know what I'm talking about and it involves lots of fire.

Since I'm not picking a side, I'm the most biased among us.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 08, 2021, 12:35:38 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 08, 2021, 12:18:55 PM


Since I'm not picking a side, I'm the most biased among us.
You and your president are masters of bullshit and can't tell a lie from the truth.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 08, 2021, 12:44:48 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 08, 2021, 12:18:55 PM
Since I'm not picking a side, I'm the most biased among us.

You are so full of shit, Jason. Oof. But then you were always like this. I remember you going around with the exact same bullshit on protests, elections, voting before. Worst part is your 'Switzerland' posing. If not for that, one might stop and think if you are dumb or deliberate, but you leave no doubt about that.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 08, 2021, 01:10:13 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 08, 2021, 12:35:38 PM
You and your president are masters of bullshit and can't tell a lie from the truth.

Johnson was not elected president in 2016, and Jorgensen was not elected president in 2020.

Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 08, 2021, 12:44:48 PM
You are so full of shit, Jason. Oof. But then you were always like this. I remember you going around with the exact same bullshit on protests, elections, voting before. Worst part is your 'Switzerland' posing. If not for that, one might stop and think if you are dumb or deliberate, but you leave no doubt about that.

As I have consistently voted third party in the general election, one might think perhaps maybe the evidence points to me not supporting any of the major parties.

Try evidence next time.  It works wonders.

Oh, but if I point out hypocrisy on your "side", it means I'm on the other "side", even when I'm also pointing out their hypocrisy at the same time.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 08, 2021, 01:27:20 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 08, 2021, 01:10:13 PMAs I have consistently voted third party in the general election, one might think perhaps maybe the evidence points to me not supporting any of the major parties.

My dad votes Libertarian too, but he's just as much of a Trump apologist as you. You act like third parties are somehow separate from the political spectrum of Left and Right, but Libertarians are obviously on the Right. The biggest difference between the two is where they stand on authoritarianism, where Libertarians want as little government intervention as possible.

You've shown your hypocrisy here many times, underplaying the actions of those of the Right while demonizing those on the Left. You claim that those on the Left riot in the streets, while those on the Right protest in the voting booth, and have failed to admit being wrong in the face of this obvious example. You claim that Leftists are the true racists, only pretending to care about minorities, while those on the Right genuinely care about equality. You think that the virus that has killed thousands of people is being overplayed for political gain. I mean, Jesus fucking Christ, you'd fit right in as a Fox News host with Tucker Carlson. I wouldn't be surprised if you believed the conspiracy theory about the recent raid on the capital actually being Antifa in disguise.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 08, 2021, 01:57:59 PM
I have a "libertarian" uncle who is far right-wing as well.  Seems to be a common refuge for extremely partisan people to pose as unpartisan straight-shooters.  Someone arguing in bad faith is much easier to spot than the people doing it think it is.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 08, 2021, 02:19:23 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 08, 2021, 01:10:13 PM
As I have consistently voted third party in the general election, one might think perhaps maybe the evidence points to me not supporting any of the major parties.

It doesn't mean shit. It is not an evidence for anything. It's not evidence to begin with.

QuoteTry evidence next time.  It works wonders.

Really? What is evidence here, Jason? And what are you going to do with any evidence, Jason? You keep coming to a specific thread to repeat that protests/riots in the summer, the outrage of people scared to death in face of a broken social contract is the same thing with a domestic terrorist attack on the Capitol building, created by the fucking president, to stop elected officials from doing their job, burn votes, 'cancel' a legitimate election to keep the president in its chair. What are you going to do what with what evidence, relating to that Jason? What is the evidence here, Jason? 

This has a name, Jason. It's a fucking coup attempt to stop the democratic process of election, Jason. It doesn't change when it happens in the US, instead of some Middle Eastern or African country, Jason. It's the same fucking thing everywhere, Jason. It's the short cut to dictatorship, Jason. You are living in a La La Land, Jason.

QuoteOh, but if I point out hypocrisy on your "side", it means I'm on the other "side", even when I'm also pointing out their hypocrisy at the same time.

I don't care about your side. I don't even think you are a hypocrite. I think you are racist piece of shit. And I believe I told you this before in a very similar conversation.

Now, I wonder if you posted the thread just for this bullshit, knowing the general tendency in the forum. Yeah, I think that's why you posted it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 08, 2021, 03:37:37 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/daiaqebl.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 08, 2021, 03:49:31 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 08, 2021, 01:57:59 PM
I have a "libertarian" uncle who is far right-wing as well.  Seems to be a common refuge for extremely partisan people to pose as unpartisan straight-shooters.  Someone arguing in bad faith is much easier to spot than the people doing it think it is.

It also seems common in my experience that the people who scream the loudest about being "non-biased", "neutral", "I don't taking sides" are the ones who are the most partisan.

If you really were, you wouldn't have to announce it to the world every time you open your mouth.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 08, 2021, 05:28:45 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on January 08, 2021, 01:27:20 PMMy dad votes Libertarian too, but he's just as much of a Trump apologist as you.

You mean he's not one?  Good.

Quote from: Blackleaf on January 08, 2021, 01:27:20 PMYou act like third parties are somehow separate from the political spectrum of Left and Right, but Libertarians are obviously on the Right.

From a left point of view.  OTOH, those on the right say we are obviously on the left.

Quote from: Blackleaf on January 08, 2021, 01:27:20 PMThe biggest difference between the two is where they stand on authoritarianism, where Libertarians want as little government intervention as possible.

Yes.  Do you realize just how big a difference that really is?  Democrats and Republicans want authoritarianism where Libertarians want as little government as possible.

Quote from: Blackleaf on January 08, 2021, 01:27:20 PMYou've shown your hypocrisy here many times, underplaying the actions of those of the Right while demonizing those on the Left.

Every time I say "look how they're the same" I am accused of defending one side and attacking the other.

Quote from: Blackleaf on January 08, 2021, 01:27:20 PMYou claim that Leftists are the true racists, only pretending to care about minorities, while those on the Right genuinely care about equality.

I do claim the left is racist, I don't claim the right isn't.  That's from my personal experience.  The difference is left racism is more subtle.  Usually, not always.

Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 08, 2021, 02:19:23 PMIt doesn't mean shit. It is not an evidence for anything. It's not evidence to begin with.

Voting third party isn't evidence of not supporting a major party.  Uh-huh.  And a square is also a circle no doubt.

Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 08, 2021, 02:19:23 PMReally? What is evidence here, Jason? And what are you going to do with any evidence, Jason? You keep coming to a specific thread to repeat that protests/riots in the summer

Actually, I am comparing those protests to these protests so that I can honestly and forthrightly say "people who supported one of them don't support the other."  Which is completely true.  You support one and not the other, and the opposite side your same coin supports the other and not the one.  And when I look at the coin and say "that coin has two sides" you accuse me of saying I'm part of the other side of that coin.

Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 08, 2021, 02:19:23 PMThis has a name, Jason. It's a fucking coup attempt to stop the democratic process of election, Jason. It doesn't change when it happens in the US, instead of some Middle Eastern or African country, Jason. It's the same fucking thing everywhere, Jason. It's the short cut to dictatorship, Jason. You are living in a La La Land, Jason.

The cold civil war has been going on for a few years now, it is only now heating up.  But you've been too busy looking on it as "just two sides only two sides don't you dare say there is another perspective" to notice.

Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 08, 2021, 02:19:23 PMI think you are racist piece of shit. And I believe I told you this before in a very similar conversation.

Hey, do you know what your progressive buddies say of people who call minorities "racist"?

Unless you are saying "minorities must think X, all of them as a group, and not deviate from group thought in any way" and are saying to yourself "he deviates so I no longer consider him a minority."

I bow to the master who tells me what my beliefs must be due to my DNA.  You have decreed I must have no independent thought or free will and must obey.

Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 08, 2021, 02:19:23 PMNow, I wonder if you posted the thread just for this bullshit, knowing the general tendency in the forum. Yeah, I think that's why you posted it.

If it makes you feel good about yourself to believe that, but you definitely didn't think that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 08, 2021, 05:49:43 PM
Jason, what do you think about taxation and common law? I'm seriously asking. I want to know what you think.

Do you think we should pay taxes and be subjected to a common law?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 08, 2021, 05:51:48 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/wgqCKc9.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 08, 2021, 05:52:43 PM
If you're trying to ask if I'm a Sovereign Citizen, the answer is a resounding "No".
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 08, 2021, 05:57:16 PM
Fair enough.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on January 08, 2021, 05:57:44 PM
Libertarians end up giving all the power to corporate boards who are sworn to maximize shareholder profit..what could possibly go wrong?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 08, 2021, 06:07:04 PM
Quote from: Cassia on January 08, 2021, 05:57:44 PM
Libertarians end up giving all the power to corporate boards who are sworn to maximize shareholder profit..what could possibly go wrong?

(https://i.imgur.com/sihrMHx.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on January 08, 2021, 06:18:08 PM
Yeah, I really feel so sorry for Musk, Bezos, Jack Ma... they can't get permission to make any money. The government is a just side show. Ah fuck I grabbed about $32K last year just on their stocks.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 08, 2021, 06:30:17 PM
Yeah, while they grabbed $tens of billions$. Poor Bezos, he's been supplanted as world's richest guy. Must be God's wrath...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 08, 2021, 06:30:53 PM
You don't see any connection between government policy and the increase in their wealth?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 08, 2021, 07:21:13 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 08, 2021, 06:07:04 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/sihrMHx.jpg)

Spoiler alert; the people with the guns and money are always going to have a boot on your throat. If it's not a government of the people, it's a government of the aristocracy that will do so... and I rather it be my peers, who I have at least some influence over.

Libertarian is just a reverse communism, both are stupidly idealistic; the communist believes power can be spread evenly and everything will be fine, the libertarian believes the power can just magically dissapear into thin air and no one will abuse it. La-la land stuff.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on January 08, 2021, 07:31:01 PM
I, too, often vote third party. Specifically the Green Party. Donald Trump convinced me to vote Democrat this year.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 08, 2021, 08:16:57 PM
You don't understand how evidence works, Jason. The third party you vote for is not some evidence for your opinion's 'objectivity' between the ones you refuse to vote for. Not to mention, neither your party nor your opinion can exist out of the present categories -or even other parties- in the US. Naturally, you do fall back to the obvious category every time you comment. People here do agree on rough basics but we all disagree on many other things. We are all cats. There are no dogs among atheists. But it is safe to say most people do see where you come from. It's pretty clear. You are not some misunderstood voice. So enough with the victimhood of 'side play'. Nobody cares about how sideless and worthy you think your own position is. Or how this and that I think mine is.

You compare two completely different events with each other as if they occurred under the same conditions, or by the same cause and effect then use it as some sort of a stepping stone for some weird self promotion. It almost sounds like you are subjecting some home cooked definitions (I actually want to say 'metaphors', in your case,lol) in your head to Occam's razor. Those events are NOT the different sides of the same coin. This is the whole point, it's the hundred year old bullshit right wingers have been playing, pushing on. Just the way you see these events, how you buy into this is enough to get yours.

I really do think you posted the thread thinking about this too. I didn't think that before today. Because a third party; 'you have sides but look, I don't' thread wouldn't get a page.

What's your minority? Honest question. You understand that while race is a political construct, its consequences are attached to physical traits and realities, right? Also do you honestly think, anyone here hold the delusion of racist=white equation or give a damn who thinks what about who should they call racist?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 08, 2021, 08:24:17 PM
Trumpling rioter Derrick Evans has been officially charged (https://wvmetronews.com/2021/01/08/manchin-evacuated-this-week-from-senate-chamber-says-new-delegate-evans-should-be-punished-for-role-in-capitol-mob/)

QuoteEvans, R-Wayne, livestreamed and then deleted videos from inside the Capitol, but others took screenshots and videos of his original.

An affidavit from FBI agent David DiMarco indicates the investigator relied heavily on the copy of Evans’ own video, comparing the voice to the voice in Evans’ videos promoting his campaign for state office. The agent also relied on Evans’ enthusiastic identification of himself.
(https://i.imgur.com/VC3ftrO.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 08, 2021, 08:28:29 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 08, 2021, 08:24:17 PM
Trumpling rioter Derrick Evans has been officially charged (https://wvmetronews.com/2021/01/08/manchin-evacuated-this-week-from-senate-chamber-says-new-delegate-evans-should-be-punished-for-role-in-capitol-mob/)

First victimhood loading... 10 % ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 08, 2021, 09:09:20 PM
FBI search homes of former Tennessee House Speaker Glen Casada and Representative Robin Smith (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/glen-casada-fbi-raid/)

The exact nature of the investigation has yet to be disclosed, but given Casada's *ahem* colorful history, it's probably unrelated to Treasonfest:

QuoteCasada resigned from the top leadership post in 2019 after revelations he exchanged sexually explicit text messages about women with his former chief of staff years ago. He was reelected to the state House last November, WTVF-TV reports.

QuoteOther controversies involving Casada included an aide's cocaine use at a legislative office years ago and allegations of doctoring emails to frame a young Black activist â€" which Casada and the aide both denied.

There were also claims of vote-buying attempts on a key education voucher bill, which he has firmly denied.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 08, 2021, 09:37:44 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 08, 2021, 08:24:17 PM
Trumpling rioter Derrick Evans has been officially charged (https://wvmetronews.com/2021/01/08/manchin-evacuated-this-week-from-senate-chamber-says-new-delegate-evans-should-be-punished-for-role-in-capitol-mob/)
(https://i.imgur.com/VC3ftrO.jpg)

A member of Antifa pretended to be a Republican so they could be elected to the West Virginia House of Delegates just so they could have him invade the government building and make Republicans look bad? Wow, Antifa's really playing the long game here, aren't they? After that, they deserve to steal the election.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 08, 2021, 10:10:31 PM
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on January 08, 2021, 07:31:01 PM
I, too, often vote third party. Specifically the Green Party. Donald Trump convinced me to vote Democrat this year.
I am not wedded to the dems.  In fact, I regard them as the party of the coward--they simply fold whenever a repub yells at them.  Oh, they make noises, but they seldom follow through or with any kind of strength.  I'm sick of them!  Repubs are the typical bully, and a bully that will find nothing too slimy or beneath their actions.  I am beyond sick of them--they have no ethics nor morals or standards of conduct.  Libertarians (like either Paul's) are repub-like in that they seem to have no morals nor ethics.  Rand Paul is just as crazy and unethical as trump.  I would heartily embrace a third party.  I vote in each election for whoever I think will do the least harm.  I have given up hope of ever voting for somebody not against somebody.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 08, 2021, 10:36:39 PM
I have seen more criticism of Biden by those who voted for him than I have seen criticisms of Trump by any non-Leftist here. And it's not because Trump is such a wonderful President, that's for sure.

Also, in case anyone was doubting that the Antifa conspiracy was bullshit: https://www.factcheck.org/2021/01/bogus-antifa-claims-follow-capitol-riot/?fbclid=IwAR1NxIxG38wztINEKaxHp6a8WRyA8QFgqhra7MiKObI-ZCo9sTORdY_li-Q

Of course, no Right-leaning person will pay any attention to this, because there is no greater enemy to the Right than facts. And any source that debunks their baseless conspiracy theories must be secretly biased toward the Left. Let's just ignore all their sources, including the company whose facial recognition technology was supposedly used to identify members of Antifa at the riot, who issued a cease and desist on the Washington Post and demanded an apology for spreading misinformation regarding their involvement. Let's ignore that we could easily Google the names of these people at the riot and identify them unambiguously as Conservatives and QAnon conspiracy theorists.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on January 09, 2021, 01:04:44 AM
Trump is now permanently suspended from Twitter. With a typical individual, this would be an inconvenience but with Trump it is going to seriously impact how he communicates with his supporters. It will also impede his ability to create media distractions and target his enemies. I imagine he is infuriated.

I'm sure there will be some people who think this is a freedom of speech issue but I disagree. Twitter is a private corporation, not a public utility, and they have the right to pick and choose their members, just as moderators here have the right to ban whomever they like for any reason. Trump can establish his own website or start his own social media company. Free market capitalism, baby.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 09, 2021, 01:09:07 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on January 09, 2021, 01:04:44 AM
Trump is now permanently suspended from Twitter. With a typical individual, this would be an inconvenience but with Trump it is going to seriously impact how he communicates with his supporters. It will also impede his ability to create media distractions and target his enemies. I imagine he is infuriated.

I'm sure there will be some people who think this is a freedom of speech issue but I disagree. Twitter is a private corporation, not a public utility, and they have the right to pick and choose their members, just as moderators here have the right to ban whomever they like for any reason. Trump can establish his own website or start his own social media company. Free market capitalism, baby.

Yeah, see. Conservatives only value freedom of expression when it's THEIR freedom of expression. They're more than happy to demand that NFL players be fired for kneeling during the National Anthem, but Heaven forbid someone have their Twitter account suspended for inciting violence or saying something racist.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 09, 2021, 01:44:34 AM
Traitors' dozen face federal charges, 40 more face charges in superior court (https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/thirteen-charged-federal-court-following-riot-united-states-capitol)

FBI arrest Poor Boys cell leader in Hawaii (https://www.staradvertiser.com/2021/01/08/breaking-news/fbi-arrests-founder-of-proud-boys-hawaii-after-he-returns-to-islands-from-u-s-capitol-riots/)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 09, 2021, 05:17:51 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 09, 2021, 01:44:34 AM
Traitors' dozen face federal charges, 40 more face charges in superior court (https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/thirteen-charged-federal-court-following-riot-united-states-capitol)

FBI arrest Poor Boys cell leader in Hawaii (https://www.staradvertiser.com/2021/01/08/breaking-news/fbi-arrests-founder-of-proud-boys-hawaii-after-he-returns-to-islands-from-u-s-capitol-riots/)
I assume Trump gets a pass then?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 09, 2021, 05:41:02 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on January 09, 2021, 01:04:44 AM
Trump is now permanently suspended from Twitter. With a typical individual, this would be an inconvenience but with Trump it is going to seriously impact how he communicates with his supporters. It will also impede his ability to create media distractions and target his enemies. I imagine he is infuriated.

I'm sure there will be some people who think this is a freedom of speech issue but I disagree. Twitter is a private corporation, not a public utility, and they have the right to pick and choose their members, just as moderators here have the right to ban whomever they like for any reason. Trump can establish his own website or start his own social media company. Free market capitalism, baby.

Yeah...agreed. His supporters over here too are going about freedom of speech...considering their realities and pop culture, it's sickening. They are happy whenever somebody says something different is silenced, esp. from a minorty and their usual attitude is "This is not free speech, it is incitement of violence!" 

I don't know if it makes sense to you, but is that really Trump's 'personal' account after all this in the presidency? And does that count as freedom of speech in this case? (Doesn't matter if it oppened it as a personal one. I don't mean that.) If you are an administration official, that's your key role. That's your account. He also has other roles. But people don't evalaute his social media accounts from that point of view, do they? So isn't it more like the 45th president that got the ban in this case because the vendor didn't want to be involved in a high crime?

Having said that, this also will have other kind of consequences considering the Q morons. Now there will be lots of fake accounts, saviours, heroes sending coooode messages...then at some point he will open a new one...etc. What  a mess. The sooner he opens a new one the better. But then he is Trump. I'm not sure.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 09, 2021, 06:06:43 AM
A talking head on CNN this morning was describing how Trump's behavior will cause an internal debate in the GOP. Will the party return to a more rational party like the days of John McCain, or will it now become the party of Trump?  I don't pretend to know, and I don't believe the talking head knows either. 

But my point is how context changes over time.  Lets see.  First, John McCain lost the election.  Trump won at least one election.  Which is better for the GOP? Second but closer to the point, how rational was the party of John McCain?  Wasn't he the candidate that chose a rationally challenged side kick to follow in his death?  A sidekick that was always at his side to answer the questions directed at McCain with the most unbelievably laughable answers? That seemed like the party of Looney Tunes back then.  Granted the talking head was a Democrat, but even his standard for "rational and responsible" is shaped by today's context.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on January 09, 2021, 06:52:57 AM
It's easier to critisize those in power.
And I shall never claim to have an unbiased view.
But these last few, months... What an absolute nest of legionless snakes these republican leaders have shown them to be. Lindsey Graham, Ted Cruz, Pence, McConnell...
I'm not quite there in counting all Republicans as the same. But even of those that are 'alright', i am dumbfounded as to how  you can actively and in good conscience stay part of what has clearly shown itself to be a cancerous growth on democracy.
Honestly the blatant pivoting on the capitol siege and the shameless refusal to acknowledge their part in all of this, should not be surprising. And honestly, at this point, it isn't. But it is no less revolting and not a damn bit easier to swallow.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on January 09, 2021, 08:18:14 AM
Is it odd that over 74 million people voted for Trump but, to my knowledge, no one on this forum has voiced their support?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 09, 2021, 09:03:21 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on January 09, 2021, 08:18:14 AM
Is it odd that over 74 million people voted for Trump but, to my knowledge, no one on this forum has voiced their support?
I'd be curious to see some national polls about political affiliations right now.  I'm not guessing that they have changed.  I'd just like to see them.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 09, 2021, 09:17:47 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on January 09, 2021, 08:18:14 AM
Is it odd that over 74 million people voted for Trump but, to my knowledge, no one on this forum has voiced their support?

Honestly, a little bit.

My guess if pr was still here he would be in favor of him, and I think Munch might have been in favor (and not just excusing him)... but I cant really be assed to go through his history to remember.

Overall though I don't think this forum is even close to "leftist", I think most of us are just smart enough to realize far-right ideology is hot-garbage. It doesn't hurt that it's also what fundamentalists tend to lean towards, so even more reason to turn us off to it.
Now that I think about it, I think that's probably a big part of it; even when we had pretty conservative members, they generally haven't been pro-Republican due to the religious ties of the party.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 09, 2021, 09:24:13 AM
I have a close friend back in Montana that has been worried about Trump's mental state since before the election.  He said several times he was worried about Trump starting a war, and of course that was always a risk, but starting wars is second nature for Americans, so it wouldn't be that weird if Trump started one. We saw early on that Trump was dividing America, but again, our leaders have been doing that for as long as I've been following politics.  But an attempt to overthrow the democratic process was truly a bold move, but even there gerrymandering and voter suppression have always run contrary to the democratic process.  This was just one step closer.  But that's how you topple a democracy; One step at a time.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 09, 2021, 09:30:39 AM
I'm curious about what went on with the cops. Is it a few idiot or something more beyond the 'cautions' Trump took.

I'm sure there are hundreds of cameras there in that building, not to mention the hidden ones. They can just pull their footage and see.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 09, 2021, 10:44:59 AM
(https://scontent.fhou1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/137248686_4024410700925336_1088804682443507944_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=2&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=HtkKVdhlFtkAX8CW0AL&_nc_ht=scontent.fhou1-1.fna&oh=ad4f9818b859596ed97cfc71054848a5&oe=60212232)

(https://scontent.fhou1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/136963509_4082306988466006_8144569626604388410_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=nmdN0Fc4DQ8AX8hhPim&_nc_ht=scontent.fhou1-1.fna&oh=6386701f1c74552b9c4e8550b866a831&oe=601DFDBA)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 09, 2021, 11:13:14 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 09, 2021, 09:30:39 AM
I'm curious about what went on with the cops. Is it a few idiot or something more beyond the 'cautions' Trump took.
The Capitol police were unprepared.  I don't know why they were unprepared.  Because it was not a BLM protest?  Even avoiding saying that "Everyone knew it was coming," the cops should have known it was an extreme high risk event.  And the Capitol Police Chief did resign the next day.  The police were not ready.  I don't know how large the Capitol Police Force is.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 09, 2021, 11:21:07 AM
Quote from: SGOS on January 09, 2021, 11:13:14 AM
The Capitol police were unprepared.  I don't know why they were unprepared.  Because it was not a BLM protest?  Even avoiding saying that "Everyone knew it was coming," the cops should have known it was an extreme high risk event.  And the Capitol Police Chief did resign the next day.  The police were not ready.  I don't know how large the Capitol Police Force is.

Maybe they thought they'd have a smaller turnout and figured they'd be able to handle it. I have a cousin who insisted that Republicans are all bark and no bite, but it's easy in retrospect to judge the police for not having done enough to prepare. I mean, there were people there from several states away. Did they hear Trump's speech and immediate hop on a plane to DC? Or was at least part of this planned in advance? Surely, Trump's call for an insurrection that same day had an effect, but I'd think they'd need at least a few days to prepare something like this.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on January 09, 2021, 12:21:55 PM
Quote from: SGOS on January 09, 2021, 11:13:14 AM
The Capitol police were unprepared.  I don't know why they were unprepared.  Because it was not a BLM protest?  Even avoiding saying that "Everyone knew it was coming," the cops should have known it was an extreme high risk event.  And the Capitol Police Chief did resign the next day.  The police were not ready.  I don't know how large the Capitol Police Force is.

Mayor bowser is said to have asked for the national guard in advance, to make sure the building and it's senators could be safeguarded, but that Trump refused to deploy them.
I'm sure he didn't know the rioters would actually go inside, though that hardly matters to his guilt in the matter. But he clearly didn't want the national guard there so that his mob would be able to protest loudly and impressively.
Don't get me wrong, the capitol polices display should be looked into. But if you choose to deploy a skeleton crew in your store during black friday, you are asking for trouble.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 09, 2021, 12:47:22 PM
Yikes, that's even worse.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 09, 2021, 12:57:52 PM
In case any morons try to claim the "guy with the horns," otherwise known as Jake Angeli, is a member of Antifa who protested for BLM, here's a statement straight from the horse's (bull's?) mouth:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1257736599170736128

I'd love to hear his reaction to being accused of being with Antifa. I'm sure he really appreciates that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 09, 2021, 01:32:15 PM
Quote from: SGOS on January 09, 2021, 11:13:14 AM
The Capitol police were unprepared.  I don't know why they were unprepared.  Because it was not a BLM protest?  Even avoiding saying that "Everyone knew it was coming," the cops should have known it was an extreme high risk event.  And the Capitol Police Chief did resign the next day.  The police were not ready.  I don't know how large the Capitol Police Force is.
My guess is that they were prepared--the trump way.  I bet (yes, just speculation at this point) if you scratch the Senate sergeant-at-arms,  and the chief, you would get a trump smell.  They were unprepared and with inferior uniforms, as well.  They were unprepared in a prepared way--the rank and file didn't quite get the full picture briefing.  But I bet the brass knew what was coming.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 09, 2021, 02:48:21 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/UhcJvur.jpg)

This was back in September (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/09/17/attorney-general-bill-barr-suggests-charging-protesters-sedition/3478435001/), when the protesting people were mostly on the other side of the aisle and their "seditious" behavior was simply agitating for police reform.

QuoteHe said federal law "does not require proof of a plot to overthrow" the government, and someone can be charged with sedition for other anti-government conspiracies, including using force "to oppose" the government's authority, to "prevent, hinder or delay" the execution of the law, and to "seize, take or possess" government property.
Like...say, attempting to mob legislators to prevent them from certifying the election and plundering the Capitol building?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 09, 2021, 05:44:07 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwvGDfXtehE
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 09, 2021, 10:07:36 PM
I feel less concern now about the inauguration being violently disrupted, since the Trump cultists won't be underestimated again. They've shown how far they are willing to go for their hero, and forewarned is forearmed.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on January 09, 2021, 10:25:32 PM
Magats turning on L. Graham and M. Romney
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVNHrF9IqAA
https://youtu.be/0xwvSSuw_zQ
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on January 09, 2021, 11:54:45 PM
I don't agree with Mitt Romney's politics but I have respected his willingness to repeatedly go against the groupthink of his party and stand up to Trump knowing there would be a backlash. I understand why Republicans nominated him for president.

“We gather due to a selfish man’s injured pride and the outrage of supporters who we had deliberately misinformed for the past two months and stirred to action this very morning."

“What happened here today was an insurrection incited by the president of the United States. Those who choose to continue to support his dangerous gambit by objecting to the results of a legitimate democratic election will forever be seen as being complicit in an unprecedented attack against our democracy.”

"The objectors have claimed they are doing so on behalf of the voters. Have an audit, they say, to satisfy the many people who believe that the election was stolen. Please! No congressional-led audit will ever convince those voters, particularly when the President will continue to claim that the election was stolen. The best way we can show respect for the voters who are upset is by telling them the truth. That is the burden, and the duty, of leadership."
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 10, 2021, 04:41:14 AM
I enjoyed the second vid. How is it possible that these people are not aware of the damage they are giving to their party by this sort of bullshit? How?

She obviously posted that video very soon after to somewhere utterly public and it was picked up in a short time. A few days? It's a video showing how she was put in her place by a politician. Even with sheer stupidity, sticky kind of self entitlement and tunnel vision, she should have recognised she produced a losing video as far as the general social media rules go, beyond the situation. I don't know if that makes sense to you but it's really weird. Fascinating.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 10, 2021, 07:03:40 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 10, 2021, 04:41:14 AM
I enjoyed the second vid. How is it possible that these people are not aware of the damage they are giving to their party by this sort of bullshit? How?
I'm still waiting for some polls to see if or how much the insurrection hurt the Republican Party.  I'm thinking maybe it's been hurt some, but not a lot.  The Republican Party is still a force to be reckoned with, and it's basic election hijacking methods are still firmly in place.  Gerrymandering and voter suppression unethical but legal are still integral parts of the system.  They need these tactics to compete.  If they employ fraud (as in illegal), we don't know. 

The coup was suppressed quickly, but the ideology of insurrection is still alive and well.  It has only taken one punch.  And in spite of all the patriotic flag waving, these people believe insurrection is a viable part of democracy, even if it doesn't have a constitutional amendment protecting it.  The question is how big is that group?  That's what the polls may tell us.

Trump lost the election, and he lost it fair and square, but that aside, he did amazingly well, amazingly (I sound like Trump), just amazingly.  Conservatives seemed to come out of the woodwork in this last election His supporters love him and will go to jail for him.  You can't buy that kind of support, and the Party needs these people.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 10, 2021, 01:21:15 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on January 09, 2021, 08:18:14 AM
Is it odd that over 74 million people voted for Trump but, to my knowledge, no one on this forum has voiced their support?

Not really.  It depends on the target audience.  Support for Trump among Atheists is far lower than among Evangelicals.

Go to a city which votes 97% Democrat and compare to a deeply rural small town, and you will see different levels of support for Trump as well.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 10, 2021, 04:31:30 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErZDhL_XAAI8W30?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Blue Lives Matter.

(After we knock them unconscious, drag them down the stairs and beat them with the flag because we love America.)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on January 10, 2021, 04:56:15 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 10, 2021, 01:21:15 PM
Not really.  It depends on the target audience.  Support for Trump among Atheists is far lower than among Evangelicals.

Go to a city which votes 97% Democrat and compare to a deeply rural small town, and you will see different levels of support for Trump as well.

Yes, but we have forum members who clearly enjoy being contrarian. People breeze through here and defended white supremacy, genocide, holocaust denial, all kinds of religions, and tentacle rape but not something as mainstream as supporting Trump. This is an atheist forum but I doubt Trump is sincerely a man of faith, he's just made a very profitable deal with evangelicals-- they got him elected. There are people on here with whom I share little in common yet even those people don't come to Trump's defense. I find it odd.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 10, 2021, 05:10:27 PM
A few recent events have been interesting to me. First the "Fox News sucks" parade, and now Republicans accusing Republican candidates of being traitors and not being "elected legally." I suppose I should have seen it coming. After decades of Republican politicians, Conservative religious figures, and Conservative media telling people that the Democrats are evil, hate God, and hate America, many were convinced. So of course when you don't give your unconditional support to someone like Trump, you must be a traitor. If the Republicans are God's servants and patriots, and Democrats are devil worshippers who want to destroy America, then of course you're a traitor if you criticize Trump or vote to certify Biden as President. The Republicans created this monster, and now these people who see the world in black and white are turning against them like Frankenstein's Monster. And of course, now they are convinced that they can just declare any politician they don't like of having won by fraudulent means. I wonder who taught them that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 10, 2021, 08:51:47 PM
So apparently, Mike Pence was one of the targets of the Trumpets during the raid, with some stating intent to execute him. ...What? Just because he wouldn't break law to prevent the transfer of power? Trump and his followers are making so many enemies within their own party, maybe Trump actually will answer for some of his crimes. I wonder what will follow from here. It seems like the party is splitting in two, between the clinically insane and those who are...not. Will the party recover from this like nothing happened, with the rabid masses just returning to voting red at their next opportunity anyway, or will they form a new party to worship unconditionally? Parties have come and go in the past, so it's not completely unheard of. Heck, if Trump isn't impeached before he leaves (and this may be an incentive for Republicans to make it happen), he may just run independently. He'd be splitting the Republican vote in half, so he'd have to be really full of himself to think he could win in that scenario, but he might do it just to spite the Republicans who failed him in his coup attempt. Aaaaaaaand it could be a good excuse to raise more funds for himself, some of which will go towards his campaign.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 10, 2021, 08:57:24 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on January 10, 2021, 08:51:47 PM
So apparently, Mike Pence was one of the targets of the Trumpets during the raid, with some stating intent to execute him. ...What?
And then he left Pelosi on hold and to the best of my knowledge, hasn't supported any move to remove the attempted coup ringleader from office.  Clearly, a relationship in which utmost loyalty is demanded, but neither earned nor reciprocated.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 10, 2021, 10:03:48 PM
I expect the Trump cult to resort to guerilla warfare soon. What role might those pardoned war criminals play? Or maybe General Flynn will be in command of the Trump "militia."
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 11, 2021, 12:55:57 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOSow6-cmog

How did we not see the red flags flying?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 11, 2021, 04:24:15 AM
"La forkette satanica!" :lol: I haven't seen this vid before. Noone got away.

I was taken to somewhere for a pizza slice by a certain someone when I visited NYC too. :)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 11, 2021, 05:08:24 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 11, 2021, 04:24:15 AM
"La forkette satanica!" :lol: I haven't seen this vid before. Noone got away.

I was taken to somewhere for a pizza slice by a certain someone when I visited NYC too. :)

I hope they at least took you to something a little more authentic than Trump would have lol.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 11, 2021, 05:57:59 AM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 11, 2021, 05:08:24 AM
I hope they at least took you to something a little more authentic than Trump would have lol.

I think so. Because I got the point much better than with the huge steak thing. OMG. Places everyone eats, esp. sells one thing without prices, furnishings and extra stuff are the ones to go when you visit some foriegn country. (Perosnally for me, at home too.) Where the majority of the people eat. Rich, poor, gourmet...etc. Because it is about the food only. Even in Italy in this case. Actually esp. in Italy, I guess, lol.

For example, there was a sausage place -I'm sure it is still there by the way- in the Cathedral square in Munich. It only served a certain kind of sausage and beer between certain hours and nothing else. I think it was 400 something years old.

People with world wide traveling experiences recommend going to the oldest, smallest restaurants in a foriegn country, and asking the chef where they eat out for the special result. To my limited experience, they are right and the best places are almost never big, posh, or even famous restaurants. They are not selling names. Which is very easy to do today. You should take risks and of course becareful. It's the most fun. 

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 11, 2021, 04:41:38 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 11, 2021, 12:55:57 AMHow did we not see the red flags flying?
I dunno about that pizza stuff (I mean, there are people who prefer Chicago style) but a big early red flag was that  "short-fingered vulgarian" stuff.  This guy gets roasted and responds by sending magazine pictures with his hands circled as if the insult were 100% literal.  And this went on for months.  Serious insecurity and ego defense.

That and the ludicrous amounts of debt to IPU-knows-who and complete lack of the normal disclosures/divestment prior to taking the presidency.

Oh and all the rape stuff.  And bragging about being a bully as a kid.  And watching 3000 people die on live TV and then taking that opportunity to brag about having the current tallest building in NYC.  Cause priorities.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on January 11, 2021, 04:51:23 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 11, 2021, 04:41:38 PM
I dunno about that pizza stuff (I mean, there are people who prefer Chicago style) but a big early red flag was that  "short-fingered vulgarian" stuff.  This guy gets roasted and responds by sending magazine pictures with his hands circled as if the insult were 100% literal.  And this went on for months.  Serious insecurity and ego defense.

That and the ludicrous amounts of debt to IPU-knows-who and complete lack of the normal disclosures/divestment prior to taking the presidency.

Oh and all the rape stuff.  And bragging about being a bully as a kid.  And watching 3000 people die on live TV and then taking that opportunity to brag about having the current tallest building in NYC.  Cause priorities.
You really would be hard-pressed to find a bigger douchebag, LOL.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 11, 2021, 04:57:45 PM
House Democrats start impeachment process (https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/trump-impeachment-2021-01-11/)

This one charges him with "incitement of an insurrection".  Rep Omar launched an additional impeachment resolution with a second charge - "abused the powers of the Presidency to incite violence and orchestrate an attempted coup."  House leadership is reportedly considering including one or both charges in their final resolution.

That's of course if Pence doesn't step up and start the 25th amendment process on the guy who incited a mob that chanted for his death and set up a noose to do it with.  If that's not a fireable offense, nothing is.  All he has to do is grow a backbone and push that button.  Wouldn't you?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on January 11, 2021, 05:22:55 PM
They should impeach regardless of the 25th amendment. Bar the man from holding office in the future.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 11, 2021, 05:40:40 PM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 11, 2021, 05:22:55 PM
They should impeach regardless of the 25th amendment. Bar the man from holding office in the future.
Equally as important is the lack of Secret Service detail.  While in office, he milked taxpayers by having his whole entourage stay at his bedbug hotel and having the audacity to charge them exorbitant rates (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/secret-service-has-paid-rates-as-high-as-650-a-night-for-rooms-at-trumps-properties/2020/02/06/7f27a7c6-3ec5-11ea-8872-5df698785a4e_story.html).  He'd do that out of office as well.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on January 11, 2021, 09:31:56 PM
As much as I would love to pummel Trump as president, there are enough fuckin crazies with guns and willing to use them for this clown, I would prefer if we just let him slink away for a couple months then hammer the fuck.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 11, 2021, 10:21:50 PM
On inauguration day he'll be gone anyway.  It's almost over.

Then we can turn to the business of rounding up Trump supporters for reeducation camps.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 11, 2021, 10:40:08 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 11, 2021, 10:21:50 PM
Then we can turn to the business of rounding up Trump supporters for reeducation camps.

Yeah. 'Cause a thing Dems would totally do.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 11, 2021, 10:42:35 PM
Also, something only a Trumpling would seriously believe.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 11, 2021, 11:15:57 PM
Saying the Trump supporters should just get away with it is something a Trumpling would say.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 12, 2021, 12:26:56 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 11, 2021, 11:15:57 PM
Saying the Trump supporters should just get away with it is something a Trumpling would say.

Get away with what? If we're talking about the people who raided the government building while the Senate was in session, with the intent of changing the election results and possibly murdering politicians (including Pence and other "traitors"), who stole government property and assaulted police, which resulted in the deaths of (I think) five people, then yes. They do belong behind bars. But if you're talking about people who committed the act of voting for Trump, they're stupid, but they're not criminals.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 12, 2021, 01:05:31 AM
What a weird edit.  His original post was just to assume no one would know what I meant by "trumpling" (it's pretty obvious) and counter-accuse me of being one in the hope that both accusations seem equally plausible to the audience (they aren't).

The edit just drifts into Baruch-like incoherence unrelated to anything.  How odd.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 12, 2021, 01:23:03 AM
I'm not sure if I should post this in this thread or the virus thread, but...

Two Dem congresswomen have now tested positive after being forced to shelter in place with Republicans who refused to wear masks during the coup attempt.

https://www.thecut.com/2021/01/rep-jayapal-tests-positive-for-covid-after-capitol-riots.html (https://www.thecut.com/2021/01/rep-jayapal-tests-positive-for-covid-after-capitol-riots.html)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on January 12, 2021, 08:15:34 AM
14th Amendment may come into play.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 12, 2021, 09:00:35 AM
I had to look up the 14th.  It's pretty clear about what privileges shall be revoked for those participating in insurrection.  The hard part will be the debate about Trump and other leaders' actual participation. The public opinion on this seems rather clear that some are responsible.  But look for some hair splitting when the debate comes.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on January 12, 2021, 09:47:31 AM
My husband was talking with a friend on speakerphone who is a Republican and Trump supporter and she was distressed about how the events at the Capitol are putting the Republicans in a bad light. She didn't appear concerned with the event itself but how it reflected on Republicans. She insisted on how Trump had done so much good for the country and he's being treated so unfairly, how all his progress is getting ruined because the mainstream media has it out for him. She said, "You know, they're getting Fox News taken off the air." She also was saying that "all the Republicans are getting banned from Facebook and Twitter. They banned the Parler app because the Democrats don't want Republicans communicating. The First Amendment is under attack!" It was very interesting listening to her anxieties, very much an "us versus them" perspective. My husband let her ramble on a while and then said, "You do realize Trump has lost his mind, right? I mean, I'm all for the wall and standing up to China but now he's just nuts."

PS- I wasn't eavesdropping. She knew she was on speakerphone and I said hello.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 12, 2021, 10:02:59 AM
Wealth and power probably create some mind altering chemistries that can push people with narcissistic tendencies over the edge. I thought I saw that happening to Richard Nixon during Watergate.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 12, 2021, 10:21:47 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on January 12, 2021, 09:47:31 AM
My husband was talking with a friend on speakerphone who is a Republican and Trump supporter and she was distressed about how the events at the Capitol are putting the Republicans in a bad light. She didn't appear concerned with the event itself but how it reflected on Republicans. She insisted on how Trump had done so much good for the country and he's being treated so unfairly, how all his progress is getting ruined because the mainstream media has it out for him. She said, "You know, they're getting Fox News taken off the air." She also was saying that "all the Republicans are getting banned from Facebook and Twitter. They banned the Parler app because the Democrats don't want Republicans communicating. The First Amendment is under attack!" It was very interesting listening to her anxieties, very much an "us versus them" perspective. My husband let her ramble on a while and then said, "You do realize Trump has lost his mind, right? I mean, I'm all for the wall and standing up to China but now he's just nuts."

PS- I wasn't eavesdropping. She knew she was on speakerphone and I said hello.

That sounds quite a bit more than just "us vs them" perspective though.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 12, 2021, 03:23:21 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on January 12, 2021, 09:47:31 AMShe insisted on how Trump had done so much good for the country and he's being treated so unfairly, how all his progress is getting ruined because the mainstream media has it out for him.
I've noticed that when they say this, they always skimp on the details.  Inevitably, it's just "something people are saying" that Trump said people are saying.

Same with these broad accusations that all conservatives are being silenced - oh, by "all conservatives" you mean that guy who got kicked off twitter for violating their ToS?  Well, yeah.  What'd you expect?  If anything, it was a miracle it didn't happen sooner.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 12, 2021, 07:02:24 PM
Poll: most Americans blame trump for Capitol attack (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/most-americans-blame-trump-for-capitol-attack-but-are-split-on-his-removal)

The good news is that 80% of Republicans oppose Treasonfest alongside 96% of Democrats, with Independents splitting the diff at 88%.  So this stuff really is abhorrent to pretty much all Americans except a small but worrisome group of Republicans.

But at the same time, Republicans couldn't piece together that the guy who came up the idea and spend weeks promoting it might be somehow linked to this mob.  Cause that's so hard to figure out.  Definitely looks like their usual talking heads got to rewrite history and had a rather easily manipulated audience.

And, of course, Republicans balk at the idea of holding one of their own accountable.  Party of personal responsibility lol.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 12, 2021, 07:06:03 PM
I think the fact that Conservatives are concerned about how the riot makes them look, and how Liberals are reacting to it, but are not concerned at all about the attempted insurrection itself speaks volumes. Very, very few will say anything against the insurrectionists, because they know they're on the same side. If the roles were reversed, they'd be appalled. We know this, because this is exactly how they told us WE'D be behaving if Biden lost, even though we saw how Liberals reacted to their loss last time, and the most we got from Liberals then were some people carrying signs saying, "Not my President." Once again, it's only bad when the other team does it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 12, 2021, 07:08:56 PM
The most depressing thing about all this was I knew when it happened... "What's REALLY going to change?"... and already we are slipping back into business as usual; Democrats call for consequences, Republicans block any attempt at it.

Sure, GoP leaders have said they condemn this... but they don't believe the president should be removed from office and that they won't support an impeachment hearing (even some of the Dems, like the embodiment of "Repulican-lite" Manchin are saying they won't support it).

And even if Trump was impeached... so what? He has already been impeached once and what did that really change other than put an astrik next to his name?

On top of that we have 147 Republicans, just about half of all Republicans in Congress, who voted that they refuse to accept the election results as legitimate.

In any civilized country an armed insurrection against the state that left police dead and nearly had several Senators held hostage would be society changing... but at this point in America this somehow still feels like "the norm".

That this seems even remotely normal or expected is terrifying.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 12, 2021, 07:16:48 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 12, 2021, 07:08:56 PM
The most depressing thing about all this was I knew when it happened... "What's REALLY going to change?"... and already we are slipping back into business as usual; Democrats call for consequences, Republicans block any attempt at it.
Party loyalty prioritized over all else is what put Trump in office in the first place and what allowed the delusions of a stolen election to fester.

They won't stop unless they are stopped.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 12, 2021, 07:24:30 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 12, 2021, 07:08:56 PMAnd even if Trump was impeached... so what?
I was going to quote that viral tweet about post-presidency benefits but apparently that's not true.  What a shame.

A different argument that I've found convincing is that coming down hard on a coup attempt is pretty important because it sends the message that this stuff won't be tolerated and discourages it in the future.  We know this the hard way from countries that suffered attempted coups and didn't do enough to prosecute it or protect themselves in the future and then suffered a successful coup.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 12, 2021, 08:26:58 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 12, 2021, 07:24:30 PM
I was going to quote that viral tweet about post-presidency benefits but apparently that's not true.  What a shame.

A different argument that I've found convincing is that coming down hard on a coup attempt is pretty important because it sends the message that this stuff won't be tolerated and discourages it in the future.  We know this the hard way from countries that suffered attempted coups and didn't do enough to prosecute it or protect themselves in the future and then suffered a successful coup.

I wouldn't call impeachment "coming down hard" though... Trump's reaction last time to it was pretty much...

(https://i.redd.it/35lqnh5xrfb51.png)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 12, 2021, 08:28:17 PM
GOP Support For Impeachment Grows As Republicans Say They’ll Vote Against Trump

Headlines I'd not thought possible!!
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/house-republicans-impeach-trump_n_5ffe2b7dc5b656719889eb49

The GOP dam broke on Tuesday when Rep. John Katko of New York said he’d vote to impeach the president. Then, Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming, the No. 3 Republican in the House, issued a stark statement saying that she, too, would vote to impeach because of Trump’s direct role in inciting the riot.

The Turtle said he was okay with impeaching the orange monster.  That caught me by surprise!  Dare I hope he is not only impeached, but also removed????
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 12, 2021, 08:45:08 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 12, 2021, 08:28:17 PMThe Turtle said he was okay with impeaching the orange monster.  That caught me by surprise!
That's a large - suspiciously large - departure from his position just 4 days ago (https://www.businessinsider.com/mcconnell-says-impeachment-trial-wont-happen-before-inauguration-2021-1).  So color me skeptical.

I'll believe him after I see a floor vote, not before.

Allegedly, the idea is to make Trump persona non grata and reclaim what's left of the Republican Party from his influence, which is certainly a wise idea but one about 4 years too late.  At this point, it's like throwing a bucket of water on a volcano.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 12, 2021, 08:49:32 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 12, 2021, 08:45:08 PM
That's a large - suspiciously large - departure from his position just 4 days ago (https://www.businessinsider.com/mcconnell-says-impeachment-trial-wont-happen-before-inauguration-2021-1).  So color me skeptical.

I'll believe him after I see a floor vote, not before.

Allegedly, the idea is to make Trump persona non grata and reclaim what's left of the Republican Party from his influence, which is certainly a wise idea but one about 4 years too late.  At this point, it's like throwing a bucket of water on a volcano.
From what I've heard (new info is coming in quickly) the idea for Moscow Mitch is that if trump is impeached and then removed, the 14th amendment can be added that would keep trump from holding any public office again; and that would basically rid MM of most of trumps repub control.  That sounds good to me, but I really have no way of guessing it will unfold that way or not.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on January 12, 2021, 08:53:44 PM
I just wonder if over time we will learn the "coup plan". So you have disrupted the certification (and possibly have kidnapped some congresspersons). Some dumbass redneck is sitting in Pelosi's chair. Now what?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 12, 2021, 08:56:27 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 12, 2021, 08:49:32 PM
From what I've heard (new info is coming in quickly) the idea for Moscow Mitch is that if trump is impeached and then removed, the 14th amendment can be added that would keep trump from holding any public office again; and that would basically rid MM of most of trumps repub control.
That's a big if.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 12, 2021, 09:04:19 PM
Quote from: Cassia on January 12, 2021, 08:53:44 PM
I just wonder if over time we will learn the "coup plan". So you have disrupted the certification (and possibly have kidnapped some congresspersons). Some dumbass redneck is sitting in Pelosi's chair. Now what?
I highly doubt they thought it through beyond that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on January 12, 2021, 09:24:01 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 12, 2021, 03:23:21 PM
I've noticed that when they say this, they always skimp on the details.  Inevitably, it's just "something people are saying" that Trump said people are saying.

I was specifically listening to see if she would reference policies but she didn't. Most of the political conversations I hear don't discuss specifics, because most people don't know enough about economics, tax law, healthcare, etcetera to have an informed opinion. It's all anxiety and team spirit.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 12, 2021, 10:07:28 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on January 12, 2021, 09:24:01 PM
I was specifically listening to see if she would reference policies but she didn't. Most of the political conversations I hear don't discuss specifics, because most people don't know enough about economics, tax law, healthcare, etcetera to have an informed opinion. It's all anxiety and team spirit.
I mean, most of us don't know the super duper specific parts of the law or executive orders, but I'd accept something like "toughened environmental protections" or "lowered taxes for Americans who make less than 50k a year".  Something reasonably specific without citing legal jargon and clauses.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 12, 2021, 10:33:42 PM
Trump won't be running in 2024, that's only a scare point.  I'm not sure who is using it to scare people, but that's all it is being used for.

We're going to have two 1-term presidents in a row, assuming Harris doesn't have Biden removed.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 12, 2021, 10:38:35 PM
From what I understand, Jason, trump used that idea (running in 2024)  as a tool to get his base to give him money.  From what I've heard, it has been very successful.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 12, 2021, 10:46:51 PM
Republican Members of Congress Allegedly Seen Giving Guided Tour to Insurrectionists Days Before Uprising, Dem Congressman Says

https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/politics/2021/01/12/mikie-sherrill-pro-trump-rioters-got-tour-congress-members/6648386002/
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on January 12, 2021, 11:24:47 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 12, 2021, 10:33:42 PM
Trump won't be running in 2024, that's only a scare point.  I'm not sure who is using it to scare people, but that's all it is being used for.

I think if Trump runs in 2024 as a third-party candidate it will split the Republicans and benefit the Democrats, same as if Bernie Sanders had run third-party in 2020 and pulled away progressive voters. I can't imagine Republican party influencers allowing Trump to represent their party again after this latest fiasco. I will not be surprised at all if Trump, who had "the greatest first term in presidential history", runs third-party in 2024 simply for ego and to rake in donations. As he said, "This is only the beginning."
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 12, 2021, 11:46:24 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on January 12, 2021, 11:24:47 PMI can't imagine Republican party influencers allowing Trump to represent their party again after this latest fiasco.
I couldn't imagine Trump running for Prez in 2016.  Or winning the nomination.  Or Republicans backing violence in the heart of government in some delusional attempt to un-lose an election they already lost.  Lots of very shocking things have happened and might still happen.

Back in November, after the lost election, a majority of Republicans favored Trump to run in 2024 (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/24/poll-republicans-support-trump-2024-439757), after everything that happened on his watch in 2020.  Granted, that might've shifted a bit since the deadly seditious riot, but apparently, some Republicans not-so-secretly love that sort of thing (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/trump-capital-rnc-meeting-riots-b1784028.html).

All I'm saying is that the people who say Trump won't be running with this air of confidence like they know what they're talking about don't know jack about 2024.  No one does.  So don't count your chickens till they hatch.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 12, 2021, 11:50:43 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 12, 2021, 11:46:24 PM
All I'm saying is that the people who say Trump won't be running with this air of confidence like they know what they're talking about don't know jack about 2024.  No one does.  So don't count your chickens till they hatch.

Wait... Those aren't chickens!

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/911be2d0644a766f41b62c7a69f7a751/tenor.gif?itemid=16077632)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 13, 2021, 07:02:05 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on January 12, 2021, 11:24:47 PM
I can't imagine Republican party influencers allowing Trump to represent their party again after this latest fiasco. I will not be surprised at all if Trump, who had "the greatest first term in presidential history", runs third-party in 2024 simply for ego and to rake in donations. As he said, "This is only the beginning."
I don't know who the "influencers" are, but it seems to me the Republican Party did as much as they could to keep him from the nomination four years ago.  The primary system, designed as it is, allowed a strong populous movement to truly have their say, even over the party insiders.  It wasn't until Trump won the election that the Republican Party threw their weight behind him with all of their resources.

I don't know if he will run in 2024 (I would not be surprised), but I'm thinking he has done enough damage to himself that disaffected liberals would again turn out in force to stop him.  Trump is a goofball president, but he is tremendously popular with his base that is more dedicated than any I have seen, much more so than with Biden or even any of the other primary hopefuls.  I would call his support stunning, but also obviously dangerous to the country.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 13, 2021, 09:15:10 AM
I think that The Turtle sees, and agrees with those that have posted above.  I really am getting the sense that he would love to see the chance or ability, of trump to run for office (any office) ever again as a death knell for the repubs.  So, he wants to make it impossible for trump to do that and an impeachment and Senate kicking him out of office as a way to do that.  Is The Turtle a frenemy?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 13, 2021, 01:51:16 PM
This 'riot' was actually an attack.  And as time goes by, it will become more and more apparent this attack was meant to be much deeper and wider--people were meant to lose their lives.

Several congressional Democrats claim the January 6 Capitol insurrection was aided by 'insiders'
https://www.yahoo.com/news/several-congressional-democrats-claim-january-092936502.html

Several Democratic members of Congress have speculated that some members of the mob who attacked the US Capitol had help from people with insider knowledge of the building.

On Tuesday, Rep. Mikie Sherrill of New Jersey released a Facebook Live video claiming she saw several members of Congress taking people on "reconnaissance" tours on January 5.

I can't find it now, but a small article said that at least one of the 'panic' alarms were ripped out prior to the attack.  The Representative from Mass. I think.  If so, then who did that?

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 13, 2021, 01:54:08 PM
Another voice added to the rising alarm:

Chris Christie: If Inciting Insurrection Isn't Impeachable, 'I Don't Know What Is'
https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/chris-christie-impeach-trump-224224223.html

If he is for impeachment......................
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 13, 2021, 02:00:24 PM
Pence is such a spineless coward. He was a specific target of the riot, and he still claims impeachment shouldn't be done. If inciting violence and attempted insurrections isn't enough to warrant an impeachment, then WTF is? These Republicans are acting as if they were not also targets of the attack. Every one of them could have become a victim of violence, or been kidnapped, but they're acting as if Democrats are just secretly loving this opportunity to stick it to them. WTF is wrong with these people?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 13, 2021, 03:34:43 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 12, 2021, 01:23:03 AM
I'm not sure if I should post this in this thread or the virus thread, but...

Two Dem congresswomen have now tested positive after being forced to shelter in place with Republicans who refused to wear masks during the coup attempt.

https://www.thecut.com/2021/01/rep-jayapal-tests-positive-for-covid-after-capitol-riots.html (https://www.thecut.com/2021/01/rep-jayapal-tests-positive-for-covid-after-capitol-riots.html)

Maybe they wanted to be recognized as fellow Trumpanistas when the other Trumpanistas showed up, since democrats were likely all wearing masks.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 13, 2021, 03:35:18 PM
All talk (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-impeachment-trial-mcconnell-inauguration-b1786863.html)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 13, 2021, 03:55:16 PM
Well, I guess you can't spell "patriot" without "riot."
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 13, 2021, 04:10:36 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR0Mpak1RwDrnjgXunNebMDwO1JicP_r-t04OkfpZwPR7unb-fX-5O0A-Wk&v=XwqAInN9HWI&feature=youtu.be

Here's an interesting video from a man who is a professional lawyer. So his opinion is based on fact and precedent, not on personal feelings on what he thinks should happen. Long story short, it is unlikely that Trump will be found guilty for incitement in court. When it comes to political speech, courts give a ton more room for reasonable doubt than in other cases. He calls incitement a "legal unicorn." And since Trump didn't specifically tell anyone to invade the government building, and used vague language like "fight," which could be interpreted in multiple ways, it's unlikely he will face legal consequences. It is absolute bullshit, but it's unfortunately true.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 13, 2021, 09:07:44 PM
The last question then is if there is even time for an impeachment trial before Biden gets inaugurated.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 13, 2021, 09:26:19 PM
No, but it doesn't matter, since it will still go to the Senate after the 20th.

The impeachment is done - Trump is the first president to be impeached twice. He hasn't been convicted in the Senate yet, but we can hope.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 13, 2021, 09:31:35 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 13, 2021, 09:07:44 PM
The last question then is if there is even time for an impeachment trial before Biden gets inaugurated.

Probably not, but the trial can continue after Trump is gone. What's the point, you ask? It would bar Trump from running again later. And he may (unlikely) face legal consequences afterwards. But mainly, this is a message, to say that this kind of behavior can't be tolerated.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 13, 2021, 09:34:14 PM
I just heard that Marjorie Taylor Greene (the new Q-anon member of congress) has said that she will submit a resolution to impeach Biden as soon as he becomes president.

She isn't the first nutjob in congress, but she might be the nuttiest of the bunch.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 14, 2021, 12:42:36 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/GU2YsUUl.jpg)

"DoN't ImPeAcH Trump, LeT's HaVe UnItY"
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 14, 2021, 03:53:30 AM
13th of Jan. Is this still necessary or something like 'let me make it clear'?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErqLt41VgAA-VSi?format=jpg&name=small)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErnltfqXYAEDj4R?format=jpg&name=small)

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 14, 2021, 08:49:15 AM
Yes, Shoe, it is necessary.  Think how much better Jan. 6th would have been if the NG were out in force.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on January 14, 2021, 09:31:19 AM
Quote from: Cassia on November 20, 2020, 07:45:55 PM
Wait till Giuliani attempts to collect his lawyer fees from Trump, LOL.
Yep, here we go !!!
Report: 'Isolated And Angry' Trump Refuses To Pay Rudy Giuliani For Legal Work
https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump-wont-pay-rudy-giuliani-election-legal-work-032513094.html (https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump-wont-pay-rudy-giuliani-election-legal-work-032513094.html)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 14, 2021, 09:49:10 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 14, 2021, 03:53:30 AM
13th of Jan. Is this still necessary or something like 'let me make it clear'?
I think it's both.  Intelligence branches of government are warning of further possible attacks.  So necessary?  Probably, but maybe more like leaving nothing to chance, which was the big error made by the Capitol Police earlier. 'Let me make it clear' is also a strong deterrent against further violent attacks.  This is a rebellion and nothing the military can't handle, but like the covid vaccine, it does no good if it's not there.  If it is there, peace will prevail.  Of course, this doesn't address the underlying problem of ignorance and anger.  I hold the government responsible for that, but they are constrained by free speech issues and have little ability to silence the conspiracy theorists and pot stirrers.  You can't educate the entire public, because as of yet, we have found no cure for stupid.

From what I read, the state capitols might be in greater need of military help.  FBI and CIA are aware of more specific organizing to attack state capitols in retribution for certifying the votes.  The Federal Capitol is the bigger prize but the State Capitols are easier targets.  There is plenty of military for this too, but I'm not hearing anything about putting it in place.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 14, 2021, 09:56:12 AM
Quote from: Cassia on January 14, 2021, 09:31:19 AM
Yep, here we go !!!
Report: 'Isolated And Angry' Trump Refuses To Pay Rudy Giuliani For Legal Work
https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump-wont-pay-rudy-giuliani-election-legal-work-032513094.html (https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump-wont-pay-rudy-giuliani-election-legal-work-032513094.html)
That's pretty much in line with lots of Trump's past behaviors.  Simply, declare the work does not meet a standard and let the contractor try and take him on in court.  But, somewhere I read that Giuliani was not expecting payment, or was that my imagination?  Unless Giuliani has mentally lost it, he knew the case was totally unwinnable from the start.  So it was more like doing a favor for a delusional but vindictive friend that you wouldn't want on your bad side.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on January 14, 2021, 10:14:29 AM

Giuliani is such a carpet bagging opportunist, just like his client....From wiki...LOL
Giuliani's mother maintained in 1988 that:
He only became a Republican after he began to get all these jobs from them. He's definitely not a conservative Republican. He thinks he is, but he isn't. He still feels very sorry for the poor.

Giuliani did not serve in the military during the Vietnam War. His conscription was deferred while he was enrolled at Manhattan College and NYU Law. Upon graduation from the latter in 1968, he was classified 1-A (available for military service), but in 1969 he was reclassified 2-A (essential civilian) as Judge MacMahon's law clerk

Giuliani's critics claimed that he arranged for people to be arrested, then dropped charges for lack of evidence on high-profile cases rather than going to trial. In a few cases, his arrests of alleged white-collar criminals at their workplaces with charges later dropped or lessened, sparked controversy, and damaged the reputations of the alleged "perps". He claimed veteran stock trader Richard Wigton, of Kidder, Peabody & Co., was guilty of insider trading; in February 1987, he had officers handcuff Wigton and march him through the company's trading floor, with Wigton in tears. Giuliani had his agents arrest Tim Tabor, a young arbitrageur and former colleague of Wigton, so late that he had to stay overnight in jail before posting bond.

Within three months, charges were dropped against both Wigton and Tabor


Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 14, 2021, 10:32:53 AM
I'm sure Giuliani would take the money if Trump gave it to him, but he won't get it.  Without full knowledge, I suspect there was an underlying agenda for Giuliani that would only be made sweeter by some money.  From a financial point of view, however, you don't take an unwinnable case that's going to wreck your reputation if it wasn't about the money, a lot of money.  Maybe this will end up as an out of court settlement, which Giuliani anticipated.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 14, 2021, 11:52:30 AM
I'm afraid Biden is in for the most difficult presidency in modern history, even with the Dems holding congress. He's got a lot on his plate, and the Trumpublicans still have lots of ways to gum up the works.

I think he'll be up to the task, but he's got some hard problems to deal with.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 14, 2021, 12:27:09 PM
"Do you know any good lawyers?"

(https://static.hollywoodreporter.com/sites/default/files/2019/11/south_park_-_publicity_still_-_h_2019_-1024x577.jpg)



"Do I know any good lawyers? No. But I do know Rudy Giuliani."

(https://static0.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/trump-rudy.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 14, 2021, 01:37:31 PM
Those pics made me uncomfortable the least. For lots of very different reasons. I wish they didn't take them in this manner at least. Tyrants of the world are watching veeery closely and taking notes. Fuck you, republicans. Fuck you!

E:You know what, they shouldn't have taken those pics at all. It's bullshit.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 14, 2021, 04:06:33 PM
Quote from: Cassia on January 14, 2021, 09:31:19 AM
Yep, here we go !!!
Report: 'Isolated And Angry' Trump Refuses To Pay Rudy Giuliani For Legal Work
https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump-wont-pay-rudy-giuliani-election-legal-work-032513094.html (https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump-wont-pay-rudy-giuliani-election-legal-work-032513094.html)
The downside of being paid what you're worth.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 14, 2021, 04:08:36 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/c01YOed.png)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 14, 2021, 07:36:04 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 14, 2021, 01:37:31 PMThose pics made me uncomfortable the least.
As a Southerner, I assumed that federal soldiers stationed to prevent violence by crazed pro-confederate lunatics was a normal thing.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 14, 2021, 08:01:24 PM
Edit - Apparently this is what places like Fox are pushing now, as well as the Congressmen who have been screaming "ANTIFAAAAAA" since it happened...

A friend of mine insists that America's problem is that the government and society has shifted too "far-left" (Ocasio-Cortez, Bernie Sanders, et. al.) as well as the media and that's what is causing all this violence.


So, after doing the math on who represents us in Congress, which is the most representative branch of the government, this is what I found.


49.6% of Republicans in office hold a far-right, conspiracy theory ideology.
2.7% of Democrats hold a "far-left" ideological view.

When put into of the entire Congress, that means that 24.1% hold objectively far-right views while only 1.3% of Congress hold "far-left" views.

My methodology is using The Republicans who voted against recognizing the election as legitimate as being "far-right, conspiracy theorists" while I used "The Squad" (AOC, Omar, Pressley, Talib, Bowman & Bush) who are identified as the "far-left" branch of the Democratic party by opponents as well as Bernie Sanders in the Senate.

But yes, tell me more about how it is the "far-left" that is the problem with this country.
The math is bellow, if anyone is interested.

[spoiler]
121 House Republicans (out of 211) voted that they refuse to even accept the elections.8 Senate Republicans (out of 49) voted that they refuse to even accept the elections.
That means that 27.8% of the House of Representatives (which is the most representative branch of the Federal government) are far-right, conspiracy theory nutjobs, or 24% of Congress. Or to break it down by party, 49.6% of the Republican party is composed of far-right, conspiracy theory nutjobs.

Now let's compare that to the "far-left" in Congress... "The Squad" (Ocasio-Cortez, Omar, etc.) and Bernie Sanders... and using "far-left" is being VERY generous with that phrase when they are left-central at by any sane metric.

The Squad is 6 Democrats (out of 222) in the House.
Bernie is 1 Independent (out of 1?) in the Senate.

That means 1.3% of the the House is made up of "far-left" politicians, and 1% of the Senate is "far-left". By party, that comes out to 2.7% of the Democratic party being 'far-left'.
[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 14, 2021, 08:33:47 PM
I wonder if the threats to the state capitols could be a feint to draw law enforcement there so as to be able to attack softer targets?

I bet some of those people have read The Art Of War, and know enough to use it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 14, 2021, 09:02:54 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 14, 2021, 08:01:24 PM49.6% of Republicans in office hold a far-right, conspiracy theory ideology.
2.7% of Democrats hold a "far-left" ideological view.

When put into of the entire Congress, that means that 24.1% hold objectively far-right views while only 1.3% of Congress hold "far-left" views.
I dun tell yuh whut, I dunno wut all those terriristic arab numberos mean, but I heard on tha radier that AOC is super-stalin - most radical communist socialist ever and that tha dems are all equally as radical.  This country has moved too far too the left (California is closer to Japan now than it has ever been) so Trump should be president till 2024 just to counterbalance it.  All Pence has gotta do is declare him President again and it's all ovah fer the 'rats treasonous fake election.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 14, 2021, 09:29:58 PM
Since I guess this is the "Orange Man Bad" thread at this point...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ert9uCyWMAUflIp?format=png&name=small)

The Trump family has apparently started looting of the White House, which is on-brand for them since in 2018 when they were visiting the U.S. Embassy in France they reportedly took home $750,000 worth of art from it. Cancelled a ww2 memorial because "rain hurt my heady :(" though.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-took-art-us-ambassador-france-home-canceling-wwi-event-2020-9
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 14, 2021, 09:35:33 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 14, 2021, 09:02:54 PM
I dun tell yuh whut, I dunno wut all those terriristic arab numberos mean, but I heard on tha radier that AOC is super-stalin - most radical communist socialist ever and that tha dems are all equally as radical.  This country has moved too far too the left (California is closer to Japan now than it has ever been) so Trump should be president till 2024 just to counterbalance it.  All Pence has gotta do is declare him President again and it's all ovah fer the 'rats treasonous fake election.

No, no you have a good point... those numbers are Arabic so they probably are lying.

Do people who use numbers convert to Islam at a higher rate? Should probably investigate that.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 14, 2021, 09:53:26 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 14, 2021, 09:35:33 PM
No, no you have a good point... those numbers are Arabic so they probably are lying.

Do people who use numbers convert to Islam at a higher rate? Should probably investigate that.
Europe currently uses arabic numerals and has lots of Muslims.  In the past, Europe did not use arabic numerals and did not have Muslims.  Irrefutable logic.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 14, 2021, 10:36:57 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 14, 2021, 08:33:47 PM
I wonder if the threats to the state capitols could be a feint to draw law enforcement there so as to be able to attack softer targets?

I bet some of those people have read The Art Of War, and know enough to use it.

Thought I responded, but apparently it didn't go through...

I wouldn't be surprised. While the foot soldiers we see are obviously not the brightest rockets in the toolshed, there are smarter people behind the scenes directing this. There are organizers, and if you are cunning enough to manipulate that anger into a mob that stormed the Capitol then being able to strategize a diversion shouldn't be beyond you.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 15, 2021, 01:14:15 AM
Poor boys gang member arrested for threatening to kill Warnock on Parler (https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/534209-proud-boys-member-arrested-after-allegedly-threatening-to-kill)

QuoteHe was arrested in his home in Queens, N.Y., where authorities said they found more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition and military-style combat knives, NBC New York reported on Wednesday. Florea was reportedly not allowed to have that ammunition due to a previous arrest and conviction in 2013 for a firearms-related felony.
Interesting how this sort of illegal hoarding and previous offenses tends to crop up among radicalized Ameri-daesh.  Always lots of warning signs before the big day.  Thankfully, this one was caught in time.

And about Parler, pretty much their entire database is available to investigators.  So don't expect this to be the last arrest.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 15, 2021, 01:16:55 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 14, 2021, 07:36:04 PM
As a Southerner, I assumed that federal soldiers stationed to prevent violence by crazed pro-confederate lunatics was a normal thing.

Of course it is,lol. I really didn't know there was still a threat.

But they could have done with less exposed, less immediate style pics. They could have just taken a few from outside, confirming the protection.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 15, 2021, 07:14:18 AM
A friend of mine said that once Biden is elected, things will be OK.  He and I almost had a parting of our ways over that.  Yes, things will improve with Biden, but this division capitalized on by Trump (Trump did not invent it), is not going away.  Biden may be a 2% solution and a temporary one at that to a problem that is 90% out of control.  Basically, not a solution, but just a brief pause.  And I'm not sure if it will be a pause.  Trump supporters (can you say, "Republicans,") are not likely to put down their weapons and become model citizens.  The fact is they don't like America as it always was, and have no need to end their acts of sedition.  They are itching for a fight, and have been for 50 years.  When you own that many assault rifles, there comes a time when gun nuts will want to put them to their intended purpose.  Rebellions will be put down, but at a great cost.

The left sees Trump as the problem.  The right sees him as the solution.  The right sees Biden, who was the farthest right presidential contender of the Democratic Party in 2020, as the worst possible president we could have.  If Bernie would have won the nomination, they would see him as the worst.  They see the voting system and democracy as something like an ultra left conspiracy that can only be fixed by authoritarian force.  I'm not implying that Bernie could fix things that Biden won't.  Somethings he could fix with a more liberal Congress, but no one can fix the fundamental problem of America.  You can't fix stupid. 

The media could help by not presenting conspiracy theories and lies as news, and I think the biggest purveyors of dangerous nonsense are trying to do something about it, but they talk about banning misinformation until after the inauguration, as if their real desire is to get back to collecting revenue.  It seems like they don't quite understand the need for a paradigm shift that needs to last for more than one election cycle.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on January 15, 2021, 08:03:55 AM
 If you wake up on a Sunday and drive a '92 Olds through corn fields and cow pastures on your way to your 98.7% 'white' church that sits in the middle of the remnants of a deteriorating small town you probably believe in (and long for) 1950s America. Frugal, conservative, hardworking, never ask for help, proud, up early-to bed early, bacon and eggs. Life was good and wholesome, praise Jesus.

Things are hard now and what has changed? Well...just turn on the TV. Brown, black and homosexuals aplenty. Atheists! China! Everything they value is being challenged. Not cognizant to the fact their leaders have bid their good jobs away while nickel and diming them to death. It's not that much of a stretch that Democratic Satan-worshipers are running a child-sex ring. Yeah, this is gonna go on for a long time. It comes down to their offspring. How far does the apple fall?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 15, 2021, 09:04:56 AM
Quote from: Cassia on January 15, 2021, 08:03:55 AM
It comes down to their offspring. How far does the apple fall? [/color]
I have hopes for the youth.  I'm not sure why, because indoctrination is real.  I was raised a Lutheran first, and a Republican second. I first decided the Republican Party cared little for the middle class and realized there was nothing in that for me.  I was always skeptical about God, but eventually realized that even if he was real, he cared little for the middle class, the poor, or the wealthy, but both of those epiphanies came well into or after my thirties.  So I'm 2 for 2 on leaving indoctrination.  But I don't think that's typical.  I did have a distant great uncle who was an atheist.  He married one of my grandmother's sisters.  My father didn't like him, but as a kid I did.  He was much nicer to me than most adults.  So I decided atheists weren't as bad as I was taught.  But I still had to do a lot of thinking to find my way out of the God box.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 15, 2021, 01:21:47 PM
Capitol mob aimed to ‘assassinate’ elected officials, feds say
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/capitol-mob-aimed-to-assassinate-elected-officials-feds-say

I simply hate the way the antifa mobs are so out of control.

“Strong evidence, including Chansley’s own words and actions at the Capitol, supports that the intent of the Capitol rioters was to capture and assassinate elected officials in the United States Government,” prosecutors wrote in their memo urging the judge to keep Chansley behind bars."

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 15, 2021, 03:40:14 PM
Y'allqaeda suspect charged for attacking a cop with a flagpole (https://www.thedailybeast.com/capitol-rioter-peter-stager-charged-for-beating-dc-cop-with-american-flagpole)

QuoteVideo footage shows Stager with a large group on the stairs of the Capitol building and holding a flagpole. Another video shows Stager hit the officer while he “remained prone on the steps.”

QuoteThe second informant said that Stager claimed he “did not know the man he was struck on the ground with the flagpole was a cop and that he thought the person he was striking was Antifa.”
I guess it really is true that these delusional and easily misled people see Antifa everywhere.

QuoteThe officer was easily identifiable, however, as he was wearing a uniform with the words “METROPOLITAN POLICE” across his back, prosecutors said.
Well, that explains the confusion.

QuoteStager allegedly told the second informant he planned to turn himself in and apologized for assaulting a member of law enforcement.
The most sincere apology ever, no doubt.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 15, 2021, 05:03:32 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 15, 2021, 01:21:47 PMr memo urging the judge to keep Chansley behind bars."



Yeah, like they shouldn't have let Rittenhouse out, now he's being serenaded by the Proud Boys.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 16, 2021, 01:57:22 AM
Georgia considering charging Trump with election interference (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/15/us/politics/atlanta-prosecutor-trump-election.html)

Reportedly they're looking to find 11,780 lawyers to file the lawsuit.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 16, 2021, 07:42:31 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 16, 2021, 01:57:22 AM
Georgia considering charging Trump with election interference (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/15/us/politics/atlanta-prosecutor-trump-election.html)
Apparently, the integrity of the vote in Georgia was important enough to make laws against fraud.  I suppose this might be true for most states, and it's not really surprising that a state would want a valid count.  The stunning part is that Trump would violate a state law. 

Did he understand that his actions were a violation of the law?  That's like asking if he is mentally competent to stand trial.  Whether he understood it or not his ethical sense should have told him it was wrong. 

Maybe he thought it wasn't wrong, because he knew there was fraud.  Except, he or his lawyer didn't know there was fraud, because they were using the evangelical definition of the word "Know," as in "evidence is not required to know something."  That involves a long chain of faulty logic.  I'd like to see his lawyers defend that faulty logic led Trump to "knowing" there were uncounted votes.

Maybe evangelical logic is an excuse for accidentally violating the law:  "Sorry, Your Honor.  I didn't realize I was tricked by a logical fallacy into actually believing I was within my rights.  I didn't mean to break the law.  It was an accident."

Maybe he will argue that a mob of thousands, also knew the count was fraudulent, and that many people couldn't be wrong, or that self righteous ignorance is perfectly OK if one is sincere.

Maybe this is just a dream, or maybe we are in Alice's Wonderland, and none of this is real.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 16, 2021, 02:34:20 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 14, 2021, 07:36:04 PM
As a Southerner, I assumed that federal soldiers stationed to prevent violence by crazed pro-confederate lunatics was a normal thing.

Yeah, but last time federal soldiers were stationed to prevent violence by pro-confederate Democrats ... oh, wait ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 16, 2021, 03:07:14 PM
In 1932 Hoover deployed the regular Army in DC to rebuff the marching soldiers who were demanding end of service pay.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 16, 2021, 03:40:22 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 16, 2021, 02:34:20 PM
Yeah, but last time federal soldiers were stationed to prevent violence by pro-confederate Democrats ... oh, wait ...

Are you seriously trying to claim that Democrats are still the problem, because a long time ago, before long before either of us or any currently elected politician was alive, Democrats used to be the party of the South, as if neither party had undergone any significant changes since then? Please tell me you're not that ignorant.

And of course, I seriously doubt you've made so much as a Google search to determine if that really was the last time federal soldiers were deployed to prevent insurrection, but I'm not going to put in more effort in debunking you than you put in regurgitating something you heard on Fox News.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 16, 2021, 03:49:26 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 16, 2021, 02:34:20 PMYeah, but last time federal soldiers were stationed to prevent violence by pro-confederate Democrats ... oh, wait ...
What if I told you that the ideologies of the two main parties have changed considerably in the past 60 years?  This is US Political History 101 stuff, lol.

And this is yet another rookie mistake that basically no one except conservatives make, and usually the dumber ones at that.  Why not just be honest about where you're coming from?  Cause I guarantee you, that would be much better received than embarrassingly weak hot takes coming at us from a position of bad faith.  The Intelligent Design people kept their true motivations hidden better than this.

Next you'll probably deny the Southern Strategy as if denying it somehow erases it from history.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 16, 2021, 05:44:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4eS2E-PoGo

This is a surprisingly good video on the topic, from a Christian and the creator of VeggieTales, no less.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on January 16, 2021, 06:44:40 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 16, 2021, 02:34:20 PM
Yeah, but last time federal soldiers were stationed to prevent violence by pro-confederate Democrats ... oh, wait ...
"The law, in its majesty, forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing food, begging in the streets, or sleeping under bridges."
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 16, 2021, 08:47:37 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on January 16, 2021, 05:44:39 PMThis is a surprisingly good video on the topic, from a Christian and the creator of VeggieTales, no less.
It also gives context as to why some people recoil from seemingly inoffensive words like "states rights" and "law and order".

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 16, 2021, 09:11:08 PM
Petition to revoke Harvard degrees of Trump supporters (https://docs.google.com/document/d/18fm7gsYHW06CNh7Su_V2PzOqZ-E_3wL9p_GRUdoRmKg/edit)

If someone attended Harvard, and then went on to support Trump, this petition is to revoke their degrees, obviously.

There should be no place in society for anyone who supported Trump.

There are so few Trump supporters around here that people are making them up.  Careful with that, you may wind up going down the route of the Salem Witch Trials instead of where you want to go.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 16, 2021, 11:54:49 PM
QuoteThere should be no place in society for anyone who supported Trump.

Hey, we agree on something!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 17, 2021, 12:27:31 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 16, 2021, 09:11:08 PM
Petition to revoke Harvard degrees of Trump supporters (https://docs.google.com/document/d/18fm7gsYHW06CNh7Su_V2PzOqZ-E_3wL9p_GRUdoRmKg/edit)
Petition to rename the moon (https://www.change.org/p/nasa-rename-the-moon)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 17, 2021, 02:57:55 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 17, 2021, 12:27:31 AM
Petition to rename the moon (https://www.change.org/p/nasa-rename-the-moon)

Petition to rename Fire Ants to Spicy Boys. (https://www.change.org/p/rename-fire-ants-to-spicy-boys)

(161.000 and counting.)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 17, 2021, 03:32:22 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on January 16, 2021, 05:44:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4eS2E-PoGo

This is a surprisingly good video on the topic, from a Christian and the creator of VeggieTales, no less.

Thanks for that! It's a good video for foreigners. My general impression is correct, but I didn't know the specifics, certain events. I'd seen old US maps which blue-red spread was different. Also, it is nice to hear decent American English.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 17, 2021, 06:13:10 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 17, 2021, 12:27:31 AM
Petition to rename the moon (https://www.change.org/p/nasa-rename-the-moon)
QuoteTitan. Mimas. Europa. Enceladus. Hyperion. Iapetus. Charon. Triton. What do these all have in common? They are moons. But one key thing sets them apart from earths moon. Their names are fucking BAD-ASS. Why does't OUR moon have a cool name?
Shit, our moon is so inconsequential that it doesn't even have a name.  It's like having a dog, and just calling it dog, or calling your wife, wife.  All the other planets have names for their moons.  Something is seriously wrong with the system.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 17, 2021, 07:17:28 AM
This is the headline that usually follows every post election loss, no matter the party.  A loss is always followed by an evaluation of strategies.  It's human nature and a necessary group dynamic.  I think the media usually exaggerates the debate, but in my experience, neither party changes much.

QuoteHEADLINE: Post Trump, Republicans Are Headed for a Bitter Internal Showdown
QuoteNYT The bitter infighting underscores the deep divisions Mr. Trump has created in the G.O.P. and all but ensures that the next campaign will represent a pivotal test of the party’s direction, with a series of clashes looming in the months ahead.
The reason this happens is because of a loss.  If Trump had won the election, nary a Republican would have protested, and they would just stay on the same track. 

Trump reached out to the Party's more dangerous and violent fringes, and of course he captured the hearts of the Evangelicals.  Republicans were happy bashing ANTIFA, BLM, and liberals.   

The Proud Boys, the White Nationalists, and KKK have defined the Party these last four years.  Or maybe Trump defined the party through them.  But Republican voters seemed to love having them on board.

Trump did not exhibit his petulant child until after the loss, but that was not the reason he lost.  He had already lost before that side of him became so outrageously apparent.  He may have lost some of his moderate supporters over that embarrassing performance but certainly Republicans were not displeased with him before then.  He was probably the most loved Republican president since Eisenhower, but also the most hated.  The hated part was why he lost.

None the less, the upcoming discussion may be interesting, although I doubt that the public will get to know much of what goes on in the discussions.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on January 17, 2021, 07:38:54 AM
Quote from: SGOS on January 17, 2021, 06:13:10 AM
Shit, our moon is so inconsequential that it doesn't even have a name.  It's like having a dog, and just calling it dog, or calling your wife, wife.  All the other planets have names for their moons.  Something is seriously wrong with the system.

I could live with the current system if it were consistent. But we don't call the earth just 'planet' now do we?
My vote goes to 'fondue', 'gouda' or 'French dessert', cuz it's made of cheese.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 17, 2021, 07:56:04 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 17, 2021, 07:38:54 AM
I could live with the current system if it were consistent. But we don't call the earth just 'planet' now do we?
My vote goes to 'fondue', 'gouda' or 'French dessert', cuz it's made of cheese.

Well, "Earth" just means "ground," so... It's not that far off.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 17, 2021, 08:37:45 AM
QuoteI could live with the current system if it were consistent. But we don't call the earth just 'planet' now do we?
Quote
Well, "Earth" just means "ground," so... It's not that far off.
This is all so confusing.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 17, 2021, 10:06:50 AM
I thought the moon's name is Luna.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 17, 2021, 10:30:23 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 17, 2021, 10:06:50 AM
I thought the moon's name is Luna.
It might suffice, but is it official?

Luna, the divine embodiment of the moon.
Sol, the divine embodiment of the sun.

We sometimes call the sun Sol so we could call the moon Luna, but these are more like informal nicknames and Sol is done with tongue in cheek like it's personification.  Do astronomers ever look at Luna?  I've never heard that usage.  We need an official name for the sun as well as the moon.

There is the sun and there are stars, but the sun is also a star, and the stars are also suns.  All the other stars (or suns) have names or at least numbers.  It seems to me that humans are getting gyped.  When we venture into deep space and meet aliens and they ask where we are from, and if we say, "We are from the sun," they will ask, "Which sun?"  They will think we are retarded or something.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 17, 2021, 11:41:29 AM
Well, if you tell an alien you're from the sun, they're probably more likely to turn to another alien and say, "Nug gobbo te loob dek."
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 17, 2021, 02:51:01 PM
Ted Cruz's staff disgusted by his role in insurrection and continued support of Trump (https://www.businessinsider.com/ted-cruz-ex-staffers-disgusted-by-texas-senators-recent-behavior-2021-1)

QuoteAt least six of Cruz's former aides have expressed their distaste at the senator's political stance in recent weeks, the magazine reported.

This behavior, which has included peddling election misinformation, leading the objection to the Electoral college certification, and sending out a fundraising email while a pro-Trump mob breached the Capitol, has left a soured impression of those who have previously worked for him.

QuoteWhen running for the Republican nomination in 2016, Cruz appealed to conservative voters and sought to contrast himself with President Donald Trump.

This led to bitter sparring, where Trump accused Cruz's father of involvement in President John F. Kennedy's assassination, and Cruz called him a "pathological liar."

In recent years, however, Cruz has become one of Trump's staunchest allies.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 17, 2021, 03:01:52 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 17, 2021, 12:27:31 AM
Petition to rename the moon (https://www.change.org/p/nasa-rename-the-moon)

If some petitions are spurious or silly, all petitions are spurious or silly?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 17, 2021, 03:09:33 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 16, 2021, 11:54:49 PM


Hey, we agree on something!

Do you also agree to the part about avoiding false positives?  The Truth and Reconciliation Commissions should not become like the Salem Witch Trials.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 17, 2021, 03:24:11 PM
Guys, there are news about armed far right groups gathering around in capitals of Ohio, Texas. Oregon, Michigan...Does anyone know anything about it?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 17, 2021, 04:33:50 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 17, 2021, 03:01:52 PM
If some petitions are spurious or silly, all petitions are spurious or silly?
I'm just saying, before you go clutching your pearls and fearmongering that conservatives are the real persecuted minority in America (cue world's smallest violin), it might be a good idea to wait until there's manifest evidence of it beyond what is essentially an angry email.  Though you're not the one to jump at the flimsiest of evidence to launch into sweeping conclusions, like say, Californian (and therefore liberal) fascism?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 17, 2021, 05:45:10 PM
You're not exactly in a great position to talk about flimsy evidence.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on January 17, 2021, 05:49:10 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 17, 2021, 03:24:11 PM
Guys, there are news about armed far right groups gathering around in capitals of Ohio, Texas. Oregon, Michigan...Does anyone know anything about it?

Yes.  Violence from Far right groups and crowds around the State Capitols is imminent. In Texas one news group is saying "they are not gathered for the election but to protest gun banning". I don't believe this one bit.

Quote'Not about the election at all'
Dozens of gun rights activists rallied outside the Texas Capitol in support of Second Amendment rights on Sunday afternoon, with some drawing a line between their event and the rioters who forced their way into the U.S. Capitol last week.

"We're here to have a peaceful rally and to not allow legislators to take gun rights away," said Jeinay LeBlanc, of Bay City, who said she is with the Hibiscus Society.

The Hibiscus Society’s website says the pro-gun rights group spawned off from the so-called Boogaloo Movement, which the Anti-Defamation League describes as an anti-government extremist movement that advocates for a second civil war. The website says the Hibiscus Society has distanced itself from boogalooers.

LeBlanc said their rally has been planned for months.

"This is not about the election at all," LeBlanc said. "This rally would've been a lot larger, but a lot of people backed out after what happened at the (U.S.) Capitol."


FBI officials spoke with several people with the Hibiscus Society before they came out Sunday, LeBlanc said.

LeBlanc said she is worried that people who do support those who stormed the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6 will co-opt their rally later in the day.

"I wouldn't be surprised if they showed up," she said.

Capitol protest tracker:Here's a live look at capitols across the US

State officials announced Friday they would shut down the Texas Capitol through Wednesday amid reports of armed protests this weekend. 

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 18, 2021, 01:00:25 AM
Cowboys for Trump leader plans to bring guns to DC (https://www.businessinsider.com/cowboys-for-trump-leader-plans-to-bring-guns-to-washington-2021-1)

Cowboys for Trump leader arrested (https://apnews.com/article/us-news-riots-arrests-new-mexico-nancy-pelosi-311847b487d05f8998216514269ed2d4)

Quote"I'm going to take a stand for our country and our freedoms because this election was fraudulent... It was stolen by Communist China,"
Ha!  It gets less funny when you realize that this clown was elected to public office and apparently didn't get the memo about DC gun laws, which was just a google search away.

Quote"They will be coming to each house and de-arming us," the mask-less commissioner said. "That's the reason why this is one that we cannot just lose. If we lose we'll never have a fair election, and if we lose the liberals will have us in masks, anytime they want to say 'mask' everybody will just be in one."
We already had a fair election.  Your guy lost.  What do you want, a participation trophy?

Also, his idea of a dystopia is the liberals telling people to wear masks and people actually doing it.  Horrifying!  You know, I thought the opening to Terminator 2 was rough - but this nightmare future is way worse.  Mild convenience for a short time to save the lives of fellow Americans, oh heaven forbid!  I better not hear "all lives matter" or "pro-life" from these dumb-dumbs ever again.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on January 18, 2021, 04:11:48 AM
Getting more anxious the closer the inauguration gets.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 18, 2021, 05:01:58 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 18, 2021, 04:11:48 AM
Getting more anxious the closer the inauguration gets.
The worst of it might be over... or not.  The stolen election bullshit seems to be losing steam, but the right wing fringes are starting to nose around the state capitols in anticipation of their armed rallies, although their issue now seems to be about their freedom to own guns and their freedom to do whatever else that they think they can't do.  That's their stated concern.  Sure they were stirred up by the Capitol riot, and want to keep that going, so we don't know how far they plan to take it.

But the country is also getting tired of the bullshit, and after the desk jockeys in the capitol police department dropped the ball the last time, the police are going to be more alert and ready than before, and I expect a strong military presence too.  The lunatic fringe will not win this.  It could get ugly, and they are sure to cry foul, but they will not succeed at anything other than making their presence known.  But we already know of their presence.  Good Grief, we've been listening to them for years and they are really starting to bore.  We know they are there.  We know they've got their guns, and how much they love Jesus, and if they want to go fuck themselves, we can't stop them.  But they don't get to take over the country.  That's not going to happen.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 18, 2021, 05:06:25 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 18, 2021, 01:00:25 AM
Also, his idea of a dystopia is the liberals telling people to wear masks and people actually doing it.  Horrifying! 
It's like reality is starting to do satires of Saturday Night Live.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 18, 2021, 05:10:12 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 17, 2021, 03:01:52 PM
If some petitions are spurious or silly, all petitions are spurious or silly?
No, the correct syllogism goes like this.

If A is spurious and silly, and
If B is spurious and silly, then
A and B are spurious and silly.

It's simple.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 18, 2021, 08:07:09 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 17, 2021, 05:45:10 PM
You're not exactly in a great position to talk about flimsy evidence.

You don't even know what's evidence, and how it works. You think voting for a 3rd party puts you in some special, neutral positon above others to make baseless assumptions, you moron.

If you are keen on dropping nonsensical bullshit when you are bored, suck it up when people shred it to pieces and stop whinning. Nobody has to put up with your deliberate attitude.
 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 18, 2021, 09:03:36 AM
I am watching Jimmy Kimmel on coup attempt..."Weirdly, the only respect that was shown to the velvet ropes..." About Pence tweets, "If thinking your vice president can award you a presidency you didn't win isn't delusional, I don't know what is..." About the lash out on Pence "...Never before have so many people gathered to watch a president masturbate"... Ow, it is so depressing.

Also, I think somebody messed with this video of Kimmel's autogenerated subtitle. Seriously it looks like played with.

E: Interestingly enough his show is the harshest reaction in a way. E: Because he is not a political commentator, but I think with all the stuff going on, it is too sutble.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 18, 2021, 09:16:46 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 18, 2021, 08:07:09 AM
You don't even know what's evidence, and how it works. You think voting for a 3rd party puts you in some special, neutral positon above others to make baseless assumptions, you moron.

You cite evidence while saying I know nothing of evidence.  Dunning-Kruger effect in play.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 18, 2021, 09:25:18 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 18, 2021, 09:16:46 AM
You cite evidence while saying I know nothing of evidence.  Dunning-Kruger effect in play.

Oy vey...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 18, 2021, 09:48:02 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 18, 2021, 09:16:46 AM
You cite evidence while saying I know nothing of evidence.  Dunning-Kruger effect in play.
Actually you are displaying the Dumb and Dumber effect.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on January 18, 2021, 11:36:37 AM
Meanwhile, this is an interesting signal: Biden is to name Rohit Chopra, an ally of Elizabeth Warren, to head the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/17/biden-rohit-chopra-consumer-bureau-460086).

QuotePresident-elect Joe Biden will nominate Rohit Chopra to be the next director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, according to four sources familiar with the decision, choosing a strong consumer advocate aligned with Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.).

If confirmed, Chopra, now a member of the Federal Trade Commission, would be returning to helm an agency he helped Warren set up after its establishment by the landmark Dodd-Frank financial reform law of 2010.

The selection of Chopra signals that the Biden administration plans to return the CFPB to the more-muscular posture of its early days following three years of Trump administration appointees curbing the agency's reach. Biden also plans to nominate Gary Gensler, a former financial regulator known for aggressive bank oversight, as chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, a source familiar with the matter said.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 18, 2021, 12:21:45 PM
I would like to see Biden restore the Post Office to its former state.  He has made promises, but I haven't seen actions that signal this.  I don't know if he can do this or not.  The Post Office is currently run by a board with a large majority of Republicans, and I don't know who has the power to do what.  Trump appointed that current anti-Post Office guy to head up the agency.  I wonder if he could be fired by Biden.

This is not my biggest political concern, but it seems like it might be one thing that Biden could fix.  And I mention it because no one has brought it up like it's not that important.  But I've always been a fan of the Post Office.  It seems like it's one of a few government agencies that works really well.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on January 18, 2021, 01:58:18 PM
I saw some new footage from the insurrection. 'more tame' moments. A big guy confused for a moment as he misunderstood Ted cruz' stance on Arizona as they ransacked the politicians desks, people laughing as they called out for Nancy Pelosi to show herself, the qanon shaman leading a prayer.
Whilst not as violent as other footage, I found their relative calmness in those moments very disturbing too. It had none of the adrenaline, but at least as much of the surreal insanity.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 18, 2021, 04:17:28 PM
In more positive news:  Joe Biden names top geneticist Eric Lander as science adviser (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00118-8)

QuoteLander was a key leader of the Human Genome Project â€" the race to sequence the human genome, which ended in 2003 â€" and is president and founding director of the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard in Cambridge, Massachusetts. He will be the first biologist to run OSTP.
Additionally, the head of the Office of Science and Technology Policy (OSTP) is now a cabinet-level position.

QuoteMany scientists have long called for the OSTP director to be raised to a cabinet-level position. “Having science elevated to its rightful place in the administration seems to me a very positive step,” says Harold Varmus, a professor at Weill Cornell Medicine in New York and former head of the National Institutes of Health. “I think it marks a very important moment in the history of science in the government.”

“It signifies the importance of who will be in the room when decisions are being made,” says Roger Pielke Jr., a science policy expert at the University of Colorado Boulder.
Roger missed a prime opportunity to say that scientists will now be in "the room where it happens".  :P
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 20, 2021, 05:25:55 AM
Do you think there will be a chain of political scandals after he is offically out? I mean there were lots of claims in the last 4 years. Just the resignations, removing from office incidents alone is significant, isn't it? So there must be at least a number of people who were afraid, or didn't talk before for this and that reason. And they would get in line. Most importantly, esp. about anything that has happened at the beginning of the Covid-19 outbreak.

I mean crowd controversy, bullying people to temper with a footage is one thing, even bullying high level officials to temper with vote count is another thing... but if it is true, making deliberate, purposeful executive level decisions in a global outbreak according to the [different] political or cultural identity of groups of people, knowing it would bodily and mentaly harm them, cause death in mass scale is a whole different level event. There is an abhorrent term for that in the international law. It's exactly defined like this and, no, it is not 'discrimination'.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 20, 2021, 07:26:42 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 20, 2021, 05:25:55 AM
Do you think there will be a chain of political scandals after he is offically out?
I think there will be, but I don't know if it would be best to pursue that stuff or let it die and get him off the radar.  He feeds off of attention, even if it's negative, and his followers think it's great. Of course, it would be irresponsible to let him get away with crime, as presidents sometimes are able to do.

I read one article saying the police were debating how big a presence they should have for his protests.  Too big a presence can create more violence, so they say, and his mobs are becoming increasingly more violent, carrying assault rifles, wearing their own riot gear, and itching for an excuse to get violent.  It didn't seem to be an issue with Black Lives Matter, however, where bigger was better.  Law and order, you know, when it's a minority and a lower threat level.

I don't think his legacy will be favorable and he will probably be remembered as the worst president ever, unless he can overthrow democracy and write his own history.  I don't think that will happen, but a some dictators come to power after they get out of jail.  Anything can happen.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 20, 2021, 08:31:25 AM
Trump and his family just left the White House and got on the helicopter to take him to the airport.  They were carrying towels, pens, ashtrays, and boxes of toilet paper, and made a quick stop at the gift shop, which turned out to be closed as the staff were all heading over to the Biden Inauguration.

But seriously, I have never watched a departure where the outgoing president was described with so much contempt by the talking heads on CNN.  Talk about leaving in disgrace.  For 20 minutes, not one good thing was said about Trump.  They just continually pointed out what a horrible president he had been.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 20, 2021, 08:42:02 AM
Marine One makes emergency landing on the way to Andrews Air Force Base to throw Trump off for refusing to wear a mask.


(https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/979fb10/2147483647/strip/true/crop/4978x3335+0+0/resize/840x563!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F3f%2Fc2%2Fdd9a61a14088acdb5491409f21db%2Fhttps-delivery.gettyimages.com%2Fdownloads%2F1228834647.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 20, 2021, 08:47:40 AM
OK, now he's making his fair well speech at Andrews. I guess CNN got it wrong, and he's actually the greatest president America has ever known.

CNN points out his speech was all lies.  No they really did.  That's what they said. Right now they are listing the lies one by one.

Edit:  As the door closed on Air Force One, CNN just had to point out that Trump leaves with the lowest approval rating of any president in the history of scientific polling, 29%, but it was a fraudulent poll, obviously.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on January 20, 2021, 08:59:37 AM
I'm glad Trump was voted out of office rather than assassinated.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 20, 2021, 09:34:23 AM
One NBC report says, they have removed 12 national guards by the report of their team members for security. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 20, 2021, 09:34:49 AM
I think it vital that trump and his allies all be brought up on legal charges.  Why?  To demonstrate that 'nobody is above the law' is more than a platitude.  The only way to heal is to acknowledge that we were wounded and then treat that wound.  Ford is one of the most destructive presidents in history because he pardoned Nixon--for the good of the country.  If he had allowed Nixon to have been officially charged and convicted, that would have been for the good of the country.   That pardon had a good deal to do with the encouragement of trump to do as he wished.  The only way to heal is to give the country some semblance of justice.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 20, 2021, 10:29:36 AM
This QAnon crazies and their Dooms Day wait...Terrible reports are out there in the media. I hope it is exaggerated. They are so cut out of reality, I don't know, it is hard to wrap your mind around. You can't. It's so bizarre. Apparently, the ham radios flying off the racks because they are all buying them. The reason is that all communication will be wiped out when Trump moves with the plan and become a 'permanent president'. For some reason their vocabulary lacks the original word. But I guess the real problem is about what will they do when they finally realise that nothing is going to happen besides the 46th president going on with his duty.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/increasingly-militant-parler-refugees-anxious-qanon-adherents-prep-doomsday-n1254775
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 20, 2021, 10:53:25 AM
Everyone thinks texting is so cool, but it ain't nothin' cooler than talkin' on the radio.  You grab that mike and make an announcement to the men.  Say it tough, and lower the pitch of yer voice.  Ain't no snowflakes talkin' on the radio.  It's the way we get 'er done.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 20, 2021, 11:03:55 AM
Quote from: SGOS on January 20, 2021, 10:53:25 AM
Everyone thinks texting is so cool, but it ain't nothin' cooler than talkin' on the radio.  You grab that mike and make an announcement to the men.  Say it tough, and lower the pitch of yer voice.  Ain't no snowflakes talkin' on the radio.  It's the way we get 'er done.

:lol:  I dunno...something tells me they are all chatting on those various, 'unmodded' apps in their phones with their other hands. How smart they can be waiting for a dooms day saved by him. And him leaving the site, not joining the ceremony... has made me uncomfortable to be honest. I can't wait for this to be safely done and gone. If the live feed goes off for some reason, I'll be scared eating my nails... It's live in split screen in major tv channels here. I'm on youtube.   
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 20, 2021, 11:17:57 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 20, 2021, 11:03:55 AM
If the live feed goes off for some reason, I'll be scared eating my nails...
Keep in mind that the extreme right is the lunatic fringe.  Sure they are dangerous, but they are also dumb as rocks.  They are easily turned into a mob, but they can't take over the government.  They live in a make believe world.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 20, 2021, 11:32:07 AM
Inauguration is in 30 minutes. Thirty minutes until this clown is officially fired, but four years too late. Glad to see Trump was too stupid or prideful to pull a Nixon. He didn't even try to pardon himself, did he? Too late now, although I doubt anything will happen to him because of his actions in office. The IRS, though... That's another matter.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 20, 2021, 11:44:41 AM
Ham radio requires licensing and it is regulated.  What they see as a way around twitter and Utube is not going to solve their problems.  They abused their freedom with their other platforms.  I don't think they will get away with it on ham radio either.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 20, 2021, 12:28:34 PM
I've never watched an inauguration before.  To me it's always been a case of "Meet the new boss, just like the old boss," so I never bothered, but this year, it's very much not the case.  I'm actually moved.  I just finished watching the black poet.  It's not over yet, but I'm thinking she is going to be the best act in the whole show, and I'm not even a fan of poetry.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 20, 2021, 01:03:23 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/pNaomCh.jpg)

The walls have been scrubbed within a millimeter of their frames.  At last, the Harkonnen stench is gone.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 20, 2021, 01:16:39 PM
Harkonnen. LOL, I think that was the last villain, we haven't used to name him. :lol:
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on January 20, 2021, 05:15:24 PM
And now, the work begins.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 20, 2021, 05:59:49 PM
Quote from: SGOS

I don't think his legacy will be favorable and he will probably be remembered as the worst president ever, unless he can overthrow democracy and write his own history.  I don't think that will happen, but a some dictators come to power after they get out of jail.  Anything can happen.


Trump doesn't have a legacy to stand on...


Did I hear a giant collective sigh of relief today? I think I did!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 20, 2021, 09:01:05 PM
Biden enacts federal mask mandate, repeals Muslim ban, and rejoins the Paris climate agreement (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/biden-executive-orders-trump-muslim-ban-b1790368.html)

QuoteThe president is also reorganising the way the White House’s institutional approach to the coronavirus pandemic, bringing back an Obama-era position within the administration entitled the Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense.

QuoteMr Biden will have the US formally rejoin the World Health Organisation (WHO)

QuoteMr Biden will halt construction of Mr Trump’s wall along the US-Mexico border by revoking the national emergency declaration the former president issued in 2018 to siphon money away from other Pentagon projects.

QuoteA second environment-focused executive order will cut off private companies from drilling for oil and gas on federal lands, which will immediately halt construction of the Keystone XL pipeline.
Terrible news.  I'd much rather he spent the day golfing, shilling beans, and pardoning criminals who did crimes on his behalf.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 20, 2021, 10:18:52 PM
Watching the inauguration and hearing so much talk about the "peaceful transfer of power" got me to thinking...

We really didn't see that today. What we saw today was the peaceful reclaiming of power.

For the last 4 years, we have been essentially without a president; yes, Trump held that office but he not once in his time there actually showed the slightest desire to actually fulfill the duties required of him. He wanted the prestige and the power, but never wanted any of the work that came along with it.

I think Biden's inauguration was just about perfect, and I'm glad they decided to make it such a relatively public spectacle rather than be behind-closed-doors for safety concerns. I love that they showed him attending formal responsibilities like going to the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier or inspecting the troops and that for the first time in 4 years we have a president who understands the somber duties that are required of him. I really loved just how much of the ceremonial aspects of the inauguration they showed, which doesn't seem to be the norm.

All in all, it legitimately just felt like the country exhaled and can finally move on from an abusive relationship with someone who has been using us and putting us down for the last few years.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 20, 2021, 11:46:53 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 20, 2021, 10:18:52 PMI think Biden's inauguration was just about perfect, and I'm glad they decided to make it such a relatively public spectacle rather than be behind-closed-doors for safety concerns. I love that they showed him attending formal responsibilities like going to the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier or inspecting the troops and that for the first time in 4 years we have a president who understands the somber duties that are required of him. I really loved just how much of the ceremonial aspects of the inauguration they showed, which doesn't seem to be the norm.

All in all, it legitimately just felt like the country exhaled and can finally move on from an abusive relationship with someone who has been using us and putting us down for the last few years.
I'm also glad it was relatively subdued, people wearing masks, no giant crowds or people acting crazy.  We've had enough of crazy.  It really sent the message that we have an actual leader again who takes the presidential duties seriously and takes the virus threat seriously.  A reestablishment of order and competence after so much chaos and incompetence.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 21, 2021, 04:09:11 AM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 20, 2021, 10:18:52 PM
... For the last 4 years, we have been essentially without a president; yes, Trump held that office but he not once in his time there actually showed the slightest desire to actually fulfill the duties required of him. He wanted the prestige and the power, but never wanted any of the work that came along with it. ...

That's the definiton of a king. And an incompetent, bad, stupid one at that. The irony is, he has a chance to enjoy the after because the majority does not believe in kings and the kind of system he desires. After all, when it comes to this, we all know what they used to do to those kings.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 21, 2021, 04:20:03 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 20, 2021, 09:01:05 PM
Biden enacts federal mask mandate, repeals Muslim ban, and rejoins the Paris climate agreement (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/biden-executive-orders-trump-muslim-ban-b1790368.html)
Terrible news.  I'd much rather he spent the day golfing, shilling beans, and pardoning criminals who did crimes on his behalf.

LOL...OMG, communist!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 21, 2021, 05:30:26 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 20, 2021, 05:59:49 PM

Trump doesn't have a legacy to stand on...

LOL Yeah, best part is, a lot of things getting reversed and re-done will have Obama-era written before it. Yeah, I am petty.

QuoteDid I hear a giant collective sigh of relief today? I think I did!

You know the sound that fills everywhere when the power comes back?  I think that's what you guys will hear in the next six months. And acutually that will wake a lot of people.

And if they really do wake up -I'd like to believe that a lot of people will- and Biden & Kamala do a good job, Republican Party could even end up with the worst vote count in the next elections. Oh shit, it's gonna be bad around here. OK, I'm enjyoying this too much. :lol: I really shouldn't. Seriously. :whistle: Enough.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 21, 2021, 09:26:37 AM
As of today, the future of progressive politics and the future of the Democratic Party is my main concern.  Biden will be better than Trump, but "better than Trump" is a low bar for progressives.  If people want progress, as well as a healthy and sustaining Democratic Party, the Democratic Party will need to get some important things done, and this is a vital goal that goes way beyond Biden's speech about "our better angels of democracy always prevailing."  THAT IS NOT A GIVEN.  Things are going to need to happen, and that they will IS NOT A GIVEN.  What we have are Democrats at the wheel, and nothing more.  Well, maybe it's more than that, but we don't know that yet.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/21/opinion/biden-inauguration-democrats.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
QuoteBiden takes office in a country where nearly two-thirds of Republicans believe Trump won the election. The idea that a decisive speech can change everything, or anything really, reflects an older era of political communication, when more of us listened to the same outlets, and when political identities were less entrenched. Today, the best hope Biden has of bringing the country together lies in policy, not rhetoric. As I write in my column this morning, he needs to make people’s lives better â€" and fast.

To do that, Democrats are going to have to learn some hard lessons from both the Obama and Trump eras. From the Obama era, they need to learn that excessive complexity, or delay, robs policies of their political power. The central tax cut in the 2009 stimulus was designed to be invisible. The Affordable Care Act didn’t begin delivering health insurance on a mass scale until four years after its passage. Both policies were too small to solve the problems they confronted, in part because congressional Democrats thought voters cared more about legislative price tags than actual outcomes. The Democrats’ disastrous 2010 wipeout was, in part, the result.

From the Trump era, Democrats need to learn that paralysis empowers populists. When government stops working on people’s behalf, or seems to, voters will turn to charismatic outsiders who promise they alone can fix it. As such, if Democrats want to avoid future Trumpian figures, they can no longer meekly accept congressional dysfunction and federal incompetence. That begins with fixing the filibuster, which is, today, the central impediment to Democrats fulfilling the campaign promises they made to Americans. But it doesn’t end there: Democrats need to do more than state the importance of democracy. They need to actually deepen American democracy. This is their chance, and their true principles will be revealed by what they do with it.

In all this, Democrats face a ticking clock. Midterms are typically rough on the president’s party, and losing even one Senate seat would end Democrats’ control of Congress and thus their ability to govern. That gives Democrats much less room for error than they had in 2009. Then, their congressional majorities reached 60 in the Senate and 257 in the House. They will start this session with 50 senators and 222 House members. If they are to avoid a midterm wipeout â€" and a possible rehabilitation of the Trump brand â€" they need to govern well, and they need Americans to feel the benefits of their governance fast.

“This is a fight not just for the future of the Democratic Party or good policy,” Senator Bernie Sanders told me. “It is literally a fight to restore faith in small-d democratic government.”
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 21, 2021, 10:53:41 AM
Here we go again!  Those goddammed antifa terrorists raising hell and smashing things up!

Protesters gather, damage Democratic headquarters in Oregon
https://www.yahoo.com/news/protesters-gather-damage-democratic-headquarters-005147909.html

ORTLAND, Ore. (AP) â€" A group of protesters carrying signs against President Joe Biden and police marched in Portland on Inauguration Day and damaged the headquarters of the Democratic Party of Oregon, police said.

Some in the group of about 150 people smashed windows and spray-painted anarchist symbols at the political party building. Police said eight arrests were made in the area. Some demonstrators carried a sign reading, “We don’t want Biden, we want revenge!” in response to “police murders” and “imperialist wars.” Others carried a banner declaring “We Are Ungovernable.”
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 21, 2021, 02:09:35 PM
What symbols do anarchists use? I bet that wasn't really anti-fa.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 21, 2021, 02:44:12 PM
Biden discovers that Trump had no vaccination plan (https://www.kctv5.com/biden-is-inheriting-a-nonexistent-covid-19-vaccine-plan-from-trump-administration-sources-say/article_4f95f186-0199-5fc3-a2ba-241c18f34a94.html)

QuoteNewly sworn in President Joe Biden and his advisers are inheriting no coronavirus vaccine distribution plan to speak of from the Trump administration, sources tell CNN, posing a significant challenge for the new White House.

QuoteAnother source described the moment that it became clear the Biden administration would have to essentially start from "square one" because there simply was no plan as: "Wow, just further affirmation of complete incompetence."
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 21, 2021, 03:09:32 PM
Quote
Newly sworn in President Joe Biden and his advisers are inheriting no coronavirus vaccine distribution plan to speak of from the Trump administration
Well that would explain why Virginia doesn't seem to have any vaccine to give people.  But really?   One of the few things Trump does get some credit for is Operation Warp Speed.  Apparently, warp speed only applies to development, and not to distribution.  Someone on the virus response team should have  been responsible for distribution.  That's what happens when teams are assembled for the main purpose of generating propaganda about how well Trump is handling things.  No one has time or the skills for anything else.  This is where experts and experience can help.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 21, 2021, 04:27:03 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 21, 2021, 02:09:35 PM
What symbols do anarchists use? I bet that wasn't really anti-fa.
Not according to faux.  and they always get all the facts right. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 21, 2021, 05:22:15 PM
Well, sure they do, at least more than OANN or NewsMax. But that's not a very high bar...


The Trumpanistas are dressing up as Anti-fa to prove their point about how violent Anti-fa is. They already tried to blame Anti-fa for the insurrection!  LOL

They might fool those who believe whatever makes them feel smart, but not those of us who really are smart...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 21, 2021, 08:52:35 PM
Qanon nutcase failed to file impeachment charges against Biden on day 1 because filing was too hard (https://www.rawstory.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-2650057836/)

The actual work of Congress is apparently harder than typing a weird rant on Twitter.  Who knew?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 21, 2021, 10:13:22 PM
Doesn't she have any staff to do that stuff?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 21, 2021, 10:20:36 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iildYXuo4hY

Much improved work environment!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on January 21, 2021, 10:52:04 PM
Glad Dr. Fauci hung in there. That had to be pretty bad having that pumpkin-head for a boss.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 22, 2021, 01:35:36 AM
Nevermind, I guess she did file impeachment after all. (https://thehill.com/homenews/house/535317-rep-marjorie-taylor-greene-files-articles-of-impeachment-against-biden)  No specified charges, which is telling.

She's the genius who decided that a mass shhoting didn't really happen because it was politically inconvenient and there have been calls for her to quit Congress due to her obvious mental impairment.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 22, 2021, 04:24:19 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 22, 2021, 01:35:36 AM
Nevermind, I guess she did file impeachment after all.  (https://thehill.com/homenews/house/535317-rep-marjorie-taylor-greene-files-articles-of-impeachment-against-biden)  No specified charges, which is telling.

She's the genius who decided that a mass shhoting didn't really happen because it was politically inconvenient and there have been calls for her to quit Congress due to her obvious mental impairment.

I don't get it. The article says something like this:

QuoteAn investigation by Senate Republicans last year into corruption allegations against the Bidens found no evidence of wrongdoing by the current president.

The report, released last September, also did not find evidence that Hunter Biden's work for the Ukrainian company, Burisma, influenced U.S. foreign policy.

The bolded part is a link to that invenstigation.

Top GOP senators say Hunter Biden's work 'cast a shadow' over Obama Ukraine policy.  (https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/517723-top-gop-senators-release-findings-from-controversial-biden-probe)

Quote...The GOP senators acknowledge in their report it is "not clear" how much U.S. policy was impacted because of Hunter Biden's work for Ukraine gas company Burisma Holdings, but they argue that it created an "awkwardness" for the Obama-era State Department. The report does not appear to include an example of a decision in which U.S. foreign policy was changed due to Hunter Biden%u2019s work on Burisma. ...

...What the Chairmen discovered during the course of this investigation is that the Obama administration knew that Hunter Biden%u2019s position on Burisma%u2019s board was problematic and did interfere in the efficient execution of policy with respect to Ukraine," the GOP chairmen wrote in their report. ...

Two officials %u2014 George Kent, who is currently serving as deputy assistant secretary of State for European and Eurasian affairs, and Amos Hochstein, a senior Obama-era State Department official %u2014 both told the committee that they raised concerns about Hunter Biden's work and the potential conflict of interest with U.S.-Ukraine policy, according to the GOP report.

"Kent%u2019s concerns went unaddressed, and in September 2016, he emphasized in an email to his colleagues, 'Furthermore, the presence of Hunter Biden on the Burisma board was very awkward for all U.S. officials pushing an anticorruption agenda in Ukraine,'" the report says.

But Kent's concerns were previously made public last year, when The Washington Post reported that he raised concerns that Hunter Biden's work for Burisma Holdings could undercut U.S. policy in Ukraine.

Hochstein previously told associates that Burisma never factored into a change in U.S. policy, and he was expected to tell committee staff working on the GOP probe that the Obama administration sought to punish Burisma rather than protect it. ...

The report sparked fierce backlash from both Democrats and the Biden campaign, who have been deeply skeptical of the investigation and warn it could spread Russian misinformation. Johnson has also faced public scrutiny from GOP members of his committee, Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah), in particular, has warned the probe looks like a political exercise.

Peters and Wyden released their own report on Wednesday, countering the GOP investigation, stating that %u201Cevery witness interviewed for this investigation testified that Vice President Biden did not alter United States foreign policy to benefit his son Hunter Biden, and that Hunter Biden%u2019s presence on the board of the Ukrainian gas company Burisma had no affect on U.S. foreign policy.%u201D ...

... No evidence has indicated criminal wrongdoing by the Bidens. A narrative, seized on by Trump, that Joe Biden worked to oust Ukrainian prosecutor Viktor Shokin to protect his son has been widely discredited, though Hunter Biden has said joining the board was %u201Cpoor judgment.%u201D

The Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, as part of a vote earlier this month, agreed to release transcripts from the closed-door depositions simultaneously with the GOP report.

Part of the depositions were released on Wednesday. But a Democratic aide noted that transcripts from key officials, including two current ambassadors, had not yet been released. ...

Sen. Gary Peters (D-Mich.), the top Democrat on the committee, warned that releasing the GOP report without the transcripts violated the agreement to release the transcripts, which passed the committee on a voice vote.

"Your release of a report without the simultaneous release of all witness interview transcripts, in direct violation of this committee's rules, would further weaken the committee's ability to effectively carry out its responsibilities on behalf of the public in the future," he said.

LOL How can she even file impeachment on the same issue after a completed investigation that has gone for months and criticised by Republican senators no less. I mean, legally, besides the obvious.

I have no idea why can't they do anything legal about a senator who's been openly supporting a group like QAnon in the first place.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on January 22, 2021, 02:58:25 PM
Apparently GOP senators have carte blanche to say or do or believe anything at all without any repercussions at all. The problem isn't the senators but the voters who put them there.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 22, 2021, 03:25:14 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 22, 2021, 04:24:19 AMLOL How can she even file impeachment on the same issue after a completed investigation that has gone for months and criticised by Republican senators no less. I mean, legally, besides the obvious.
There's no real logical basis and unlikely to go anywhere, just a political stunt.  And besides, I doubt her thought process was anything more complex than "you go after my guy, I'll go after your guy!".

You know how these people say "orange man bad" when Trump is criticized as if Trump did nothing to merit criticism and he's just being persecuted for this political affiliation?  Well, I'm starting to think that's really their thought process when it comes to the dems and they just assume everyone thinks in such stark and simple terms.

QuoteI have no idea why can't they do anything legal about a senator who's been openly supporting a group like QAnon in the first place.
Well, there is an attempt to strip their security clearance (https://www.thedailybeast.com/dems-new-bill-aims-to-bar-qanon-followers-from-security-clearances).  Really, it's aimed at removing the security clearance from anyone who participated in the failed coup (which makes intuitive sense) or subscribes those sort of anti-democracy ideas, and Qanon just happens to be exhibit A.  Dunno how they expect to enforce that since a lot of these people (people who didn't already make the stupid mistake of going public) can just keep it under their hat.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 22, 2021, 03:35:47 PM
Biden signs executive order mandating masks at  planes, buses, trains and at airports (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/biden-mask-mandate/2021/01/21/5867d7ee-5bf9-11eb-8bcf-3877871c819d_story.html)

It's amazing to me that we weren't already doing this.  This is the sort of thing we should've been doing on day 1 of the pandemic.

And a big upside is that it'll filter out people who aren't smart enough to figure out how to use a mask, like Senator Zodiac Killer.  I'd rather them have their infantile meltdowns at the front gate, not spitting and screaming in the cabin.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 22, 2021, 05:23:32 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 22, 2021, 03:35:47 PM
Biden signs executive order mandating masks at  planes, buses, trains and at airports (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/biden-mask-mandate/2021/01/21/5867d7ee-5bf9-11eb-8bcf-3877871c819d_story.html)

It's amazing to me that we weren't already doing this.  This is the sort of thing we should've been doing on day 1 of the pandemic.

And a big upside is that it'll filter out people who aren't smart enough to figure out how to use a mask, like Senator Zodiac Killer.  I'd rather them have their infantile meltdowns at the front gate, not spitting and screaming in the cabin.

It didn't happen because Trump decided to make it into a political issue. I still have no fucking clue why he did that. If he hadn't said anything, his millions of braindead sheep wouldn't have had a problem with it either.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 22, 2021, 05:59:45 PM
He "didn't want people to panic"
*smash cut to roving gangs in the Capitol building*
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on January 23, 2021, 10:07:22 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 22, 2021, 05:59:45 PM
He "didn't want people to panic"
*smash cut to roving gangs in the Capitol building*

More like he didn't want his final year to be associated with a pandemic, and so swept it under the rug until it was too late.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 23, 2021, 11:00:26 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on January 23, 2021, 10:07:22 AM
More like he didn't want his final year to be associated with a pandemic, and so swept it under the rug until it was too late.
I can see his reasoning.  Well, it's more like I can see his intention.  I see the reasoning too, but it wasn't good reasoning, because you can't sweep a pandemic under the rug.  People die, people get sick and have lasting complications, and it slowly accelerates, then faster and faster, as more and more people, people you know, start dying.  And what's the media supposed to do?  Ignore it?  If the pandemic had first been identified two months ago, he maybe could have made it to the next election fooling people into not taking health precautions, but that may not have worked.  The fact that he ran the country like a ten year old didn't help things either.  He probably would have lost the election without the pandemic.  But yeah, pretending like the pandemic is not a serious issue was the wrong thing to do both for his own political future and ethically as well.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 23, 2021, 12:36:11 PM
Yeah, no. It really doesn't look like he was just trying to avoid a political situation. I bet the initial reports on first covid-19 wave hitting black and brown and democrat communities especially hard didn't hurt his and Kushner board's 'reasoning' either. There are tons of reports out there about nonwhite groups, it is not a rumour.

What happened to the expert from Kushner's team who claimed:

QuoteMost troubling of all, perhaps, was a sentiment the expert said a member of Kushner's team expressed: that because the virus had hit blue states hardest, a national plan was unnecessary and would not make sense politically. "The political folks believed that because it was going to be relegated to Democratic states, that they could blame those governors, and that would be an effective political strategy," said the expert.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/did-trump-kushner-ignore-blue-state-covid-19-testing-deaths-ncna1235707

Just type 'Trump CDC'. Reports from May, July to September...

Trump administration cuts CDC out of data collection on hospitalized COVID-19 patients. The move has immediate effect.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/07/15/trump-administration-orders-hospitals-not-send-covid-19-data-cdc/5441730002/

Trump officials interfered with CDC reports on Covid-19

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/11/exclusive-trump-officials-interfered-with-cdc-reports-on-covid-19-412809

Probe: Trump officials attacked CDC virus reports

https://news.yahoo.com/probe-trump-officials-attacked-cdc-150312688.html

Despair at CDC after Trump influence: 'I have never seen morale this low'

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/517708-despair-at-cdc-after-trump-influence-i-have-never-seen-morale-this-low

Don't you think this looks like more than trying to avoid a political situation and going with no plan? Everything has been clear since around March 2020.

It seems to me that Trump and whoever is there with him and his group REALLY thought/think that they are above and out of the reach of the virus and only the 'undesirables' would die. Yeah exactly like in scripture tales. That actually looks like the first plan. Do nothing, we are safe. And then naturally when things started to go bad they made certain moves to cover anything possible to stop any kind of information about the pandemic in general.

I wouldn't think this way a very short time ago. But after realising that these people and this man are actually mentally ill, this fits. Because they could have gone to the 'we are trying, but country should have been prepared before us, it is a bad disease' path too. They didn't. They really do think they are some special people of gawd above everything.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on January 23, 2021, 01:22:17 PM
My two cents on the matter.

It was election time, coming up. Trump need desperately to cling to power. He is facing criminal charges, bankrupcy and is in deep with some bad people. Staying president was his only ticket, his only one, to keeping a good standard of living. Maybe even living. Definitely being certain he keeps out of jail.
He knew he had his die hard fanbase but that alone could never get him elected for a second term. Not with his already questionable popularity waning and knowing he'd never get the popular vote. In his mind, the economy was the only thing he could hold as a Trump card, a good economy was his only ticket to self preservation. And with Covid, that became impossible. He knew the appropriate responses, but caving into them would, in his mind, spell definite loss come election time. So he tried to swipe it under the rug and bet all his chips on 'herd immunity', hoped it would rush by in a rush that was hell, but give him time to rebuild sooner than any country because he wouldn't have to wait for a vaccine that way. Perhaps he thought it was actually what was best for the nation. But I would sooner venture that he knew this way would cost way more lives. But he didn't care, because he has never cared about America or the rest of the world for that matter. He willfully threw all those people under the bus, if I'm right, in a desperate long shot at remaining in power. Hundreds of thousands of lives knowingly sacrificed, many more ruined, all for a mere chance to save his own sociopathic skin.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 23, 2021, 01:44:50 PM
My take on this.  Trump was/is and always will be a mob boss.  He has used chaos for early on. He created chaos, never let it settle down.  He created it every day, all day and used it as a smoke screen to cover what he really wanted to do.  From the beginning he aimed at taking over the govt. and line his/family pockets with the countries money and material.  He cared nothing for the law nor social norms nor the truth or anything that did not serve his purposes--which was to rape this country.  He wanted power and did not care how he got it--or kept it.  He and his family going way back were racist and white supremists.  It is interesting in how he did not try to hide any of this--not ever.  He fired those who would not follow his orders and replaced them (in all of the bureaus); he gutted them and replaced, from to bottom, with his minions.  When he could not do that, he simply left those positions unfilled--that way he could dictate what that bureau did and how they did it.  This was especially true of the judicial system.  He groomed the white nationalist organizations from day one.  He groomed the fundamentalist's as well. 

He felt he could read the pulse of this country, which he indicated he could do in many interviews even before he was a candidate.  And he was right.  He gave the very deep racism in this country a voice and told them it was okay--a virtue, to hate.  That that was strong and not a weakness.  He was made into a cult leader by the christians and he made sure to stay on their side.  He cared nothing for them nor any of his followers or minions, but he had tapped into their feelings and kept do anything and everything to maintain control.  I think the Jan. 6th attack was meant to be the actual revolt.  He was and still is, desperate to maintain power as much as he can. 

He has only cared for himself and secondly his family.  That's it.  A truly evil man.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 23, 2021, 05:18:18 PM
In positive news, we have Jessica Rosenworcel is replacing Ajit Pai (https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/democrat-jessica-rosenworcel-replaces-ajit-pai-is-now-fcc-acting-chairwoman/) as acting FCC chair.  She supports net neutrality.  There is now a 2-2 split between Democrats and Republicans in the FCC, so we'll have to wait and see if Biden gets in another nominee to break partisan deadlock.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on January 24, 2021, 04:39:46 AM
When will Trump finally be put in jail?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 24, 2021, 05:21:05 AM
Martha Stewart went to jail because she sold stocks that her broker told her were going to slide.  But she was nobody of political interest and had no ability to fire anyone in the Justice Department or the Pentagon.  She had no means of retaliation.  She was found guilty to show the common man that no one was above the law, but Bankers selling fraudulent investments and making working people homeless, while bringing the economy to it's knees were rewarded with a tax payer bailout that provided the worst of the bunch with huge annual bonuses.  So will Trump go to jail?  That's not the way American Justice works.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 24, 2021, 05:41:43 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 23, 2021, 01:44:50 PM
... He and his family going way back were racist and white supremists. It is interesting in how he did not try to hide any of this--not ever. ...

Why do you think they see themselves racists to begin with? We can write very sophisticated stuff about this but there is no need. It's very simple. From their point of view, all the history has been made by the white men, all the development has been achieved by the white men, the people who runs god's kingdom on earth have been white men; the world belongs to the white men. White men are in charge, white men has the wealth, property, power... The god himself is a white man. :lol: If they don't believe in this fully, breathe this vision of the world and its history, how can they even reach to that position in the first place?

Well, relatively a short time ago certain groups started to stir up and move. Non-whitegroups, women, LGBT groups...etc. But they have done that before. They always do it. It's a routine. Obviously, there is a reason why he was destined to have this life and lead just in this era, it is the same reason.

But above t****... The crucial point, what gets me eeevery time...the fact that this is actually about wealth. Nobody likes to hear it. "Why do you hate the rich people?" LOL How many times I've heard that? What fucking bullshit. There is no such thing as clean fortune and people above certain amount of wealth is above the law, until it is inconvenient for the others in the same class.

Do you think Jeffrey Epstein saw himself as a rapist and sex trafficker? Do you think pedophile aristocrats, politicians, business men see themselves as child rapists? Yeah not all of the filthy rich are child rapists, and sex traffickers and murderers or what not. But the reality is that they are exempt of the conseqences of their actions in a wide scale, maybe except tax evation any other money related crimes. Basically, that is the only thing filthy amount of money can't afford, because it is all about accumulation of filthy amount of money; wealth. The rest is for the other 99%.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 24, 2021, 05:47:53 AM
Quote from: SGOS on January 24, 2021, 05:21:05 AM
Martha Stewart went to jail because she sold stocks that her broker told her were going to slide.  But she was nobody of political interest and had no ability to fire anyone in the Justice Department or the Pentagon.  She had no means of retaliation.  She was found guilty to show the common man that no one was above the law, but Bankers selling fraudulent investments and making working people homeless, while bringing the economy to it's knees were rewarded with a tax payer bailout that provided the worst of the bunch with huge annual bonuses.  So will Trump go to jail?  That's not the way American Justice works.

She is out of the accumulation of wealth. She is just a client. There are lots of people like that. They are the American dream window items. Bankers are the crucial gate keepers, closely related to the 1% who holds that very accumulation.

Have you seen the Big Short? It feels like I have asked this question before, but not sure. Also Laundromat? 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 24, 2021, 08:45:37 AM
I've read The Big Short three times, and seen the movie countless more times.  I haven't heard anything about Laundromat.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on January 24, 2021, 09:23:41 AM
Quote from: SGOS on January 24, 2021, 05:21:05 AM
Martha Stewart went to jail because she sold stocks that her broker told her were going to slide.  But she was nobody of political interest and had no ability to fire anyone in the Justice Department or the Pentagon.  She had no means of retaliation.  She was found guilty to show the common man that no one was above the law, but Bankers selling fraudulent investments and making working people homeless, while bringing the economy to it's knees were rewarded with a tax payer bailout that provided the worst of the bunch with huge annual bonuses.  So will Trump go to jail?  That's not the way American Justice works.
Yeah, Martha earned street cred with the Snoop. Interestingly enough there is a new phenomena occurring with the stock market related to social media. The Reddit group "Wallstreetbets" is a large group of seemingly young people who trade futures mostly with the cell phone app "Robinhood". They literally chat up and gang in on a particular stock so hard that they pump the price up so fast (the exchanges have to halt trading periodically). There may be absolutely little or no other reasons for the sharp increases. They have a cult language and are very entertaining. I coded a custom stock scanner in my trading app and sure enough it often finds the very stock they are concentrating on. This week it is 'Gamestop' I am sure the SEC will be looking into all this.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-22/gamestop-tug-of-war-gives-reddit-army-a-win-on-record-volatility
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 24, 2021, 09:35:54 AM
Quote from: Cassia on January 24, 2021, 09:23:41 AM
Yeah, Martha earned street cred with the Snoop. Interestingly enough there is a new phenomena occurring with the stock market related to social media. The Reddit group "Wallstreetbets" is a large group of seemingly young people who trade futures mostly with the cell phone app "Robinhood". They literally chat up and gang in on a particular stock so hard that they pump the price up so fast (the exchanges have to halt trading periodically). There may be absolutely little or no other reasons for the sharp increases. They have a cult language and are very entertaining. I coded a custom stock scanner in my trading app and sure enough it often finds the very stock they are concentrating on. This week it is 'Gamestop' I am sure the SEC will be looking into all this.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-22/gamestop-tug-of-war-gives-reddit-army-a-win-on-record-volatility

Oh wow. Can they do something about it or is it just yeah, well...?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on January 24, 2021, 10:04:00 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 24, 2021, 09:35:54 AM
Oh wow. Can they do something about it or is it just yeah, well...?
Good question. Pumping up a stock is not inside trading and well there is that free speech thing. Someone will get stuck holding low valued shares when it does tank. Some of these kids are investing Grandma's life savings. They do a thing called "loss porn", LOL when they lose. This is not the intended market mechanism for investing in public corporations, but that was all setup before social media, just like politics.

Monday they are making a pump play at "Blackberry", ticker: "BB" and also they are still pumping Gamestop. I may pull up those charts for a modest 10 second strike.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 24, 2021, 05:38:26 PM
New President.  You know what that means?  POLL TIME!

Biden enjoys a 55% approval rating (https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/reutersipsos-core-political-survey-presidential-approval-tracker-01222021) (Trump never broke 50% his entire presidency), 69% (noice!) approve of Biden's pandemic response (https://www.newsweek.com/69-percent-americans-approve-bidens-covid-response-his-first-week-president-poll-1563985) and about 40% of Republicans approve of Biden's pandemic response (https://news.yahoo.com/republicans-back-bidens-coronavirus-response-164500443.html), which is abnormally high for this *cough* demographic (about 80% of Republicans approved of Trump's response for pretty much the entire pandemic (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/coronavirus-polls/), which is strange for a number of reasons.  First and foremost, I'd love to meet the people who approved of both lol)

Biden approval broken down by ideology:
92% from Democrats, 52% from Independents, 21% from Republicans
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 24, 2021, 05:45:04 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 24, 2021, 05:38:26 PM
New President.  You know what that means?  POLL TIME!

Biden enjoys a 55% approval rating (https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/reutersipsos-core-political-survey-presidential-approval-tracker-01222021) (Trump never broke 50% his entire presidency), 69% (noice!) approve of Biden's pandemic response (https://www.newsweek.com/69-percent-americans-approve-bidens-covid-response-his-first-week-president-poll-1563985) and about 40% of Republicans approve of Biden's pandemic response (https://news.yahoo.com/republicans-back-bidens-coronavirus-response-164500443.html), which is abnormally high for this *cough* demographic (about 80% of Republicans approved of Trump's response for pretty much the entire pandemic (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/coronavirus-polls/), which is strange for a number of reasons.  First and foremost, I'd love to meet the people who approved of both lol)

Biden approval broken down by ideology:
92% from Democrats, 52% from Independents, 21% from Republicans

I'm curious about the Independent approval rating, because the few things he has been able to do so far have been solid.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 24, 2021, 05:46:35 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDJqipoohc
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 24, 2021, 06:18:48 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 24, 2021, 05:45:04 PMI'm curious about the Independent approval rating, because the few things he has been able to do so far have been solid.
Me, too.  But apparently, they habitually just split the diff between the Republicans and Democrats.  If Republicans said that 2+2=6 and Democrats said that 2+2=4, these guys would go with 5.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 24, 2021, 06:23:31 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on January 24, 2021, 05:45:04 PM
I'm curious about the Independent approval rating, because the few things he has been able to do so far have been solid.
It's easy enough to read a poll, but interpreting seems harder.  Democrats love him because he's a democrat.  Republicans hate him because he's not a Republican.  This is always a given, whether he does anything or not.  I've never paid much attention to independents, and I have no idea if the group is big enough to bother caring about or not.  But...

92% from Democrats, 52% from Independents, 21% from Republicans puts Independents almost square in the middle of the Dems and the Pubs.  Everything is I would expect in the first week of a new presidency. 

I'm not exactly an independent, because I will never vote Republican, but I'm too liberal to call myself a Democrat.  I approve of everything Biden has done so far, but there's a lot of things to come, and I will never agree with him on Obamacare, the environment, or income equality.  Civil rights, I'll wait and see.  I'm progressive.  I want progress.  I'm not happy with the status quo.  And everything Biden has said, makes me think he will be stable, but nothing is going to happen that will be a surprising step forward.  I think at best he will restore some of what was lost under Trump, but I don't think he will equal Trump in the amount of net change he accomplishes.  However, I will be happy to be surprised.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 25, 2021, 05:32:02 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/34zxb39m8id61.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=658bef770c7298fb2a4d154200e8a37008e802a2)

America's mayor
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on January 25, 2021, 11:17:32 PM
The last week in the Trump White House was suddenly a very polite place.
[spoiler]Everyone was going around saying “pardon me.”[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 26, 2021, 02:15:53 PM
Remember the Capitol Police Chief who resigned after the Capitol Police Force was unprepared for the insurrection?  At the time, I thought he resigned as a failure, but apparently not.  It sounds like he did everything right except that a 3 member board who oversees the department refused to allow him to take the necessary action.  And during the attack they failed to authorize help from the National Guard.  Two board members have since retired.  How could they be that boneheaded considering the intel they had?  Right wing sympathizers?

The Capitol Police apologized for its security failures on Jan. 6, including a delay in approving pleas for National Guard assistance.
Quote
Two days before the attack, Steven Sund, then the chief of the Capitol Police, requested that the Capitol Police Board declare a state of emergency and authorize a request to secure National Guard support. The board denied the request, according to Chief Pittman, but encouraged Chief Sund to contact the National Guard to determine how many guardsmen could be sent to the Capitol on short notice, which he did.

As the protesters became an increasing threat to the Capitol on Jan. 6, Chief Sund asked for more help from federal agencies and law enforcement agencies in the area. “He also lobbied the board for authorization to bring in the National Guard, but he was not granted authorization for over an hour,” Chief Pittman said.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on January 26, 2021, 02:30:03 PM
I claimed the above here on the site too, shortly after the incident. But I thought I was going mad because though I could swear I heard it somewhere I couldn't find the information back anywhere. And by god I looked for it. Thanks.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 26, 2021, 05:46:04 PM
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-furiously-watching-fauci-biden-era-interviews-report-2021-1

LOL
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 26, 2021, 06:31:32 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 26, 2021, 05:46:04 PM
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-furiously-watching-fauci-biden-era-interviews-report-2021-1
Trump is a caricature of a child in a never ending temper tantrum.  This article is both funny and pathetic.  I'm happy he's gone.  Now I just wish he would grow up. He managed his own company and that was OK because he owned it, but he just wasn't cut out to be the president, a job which requires a minimum of maturity. Personally, I wouldn't hire him to manage a Burger King.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on January 26, 2021, 06:43:52 PM
I really do wish we could say that trump is gone and we can see him in the rear view mirror.  I'm very concerned that that is not so.  He will cause as much chaos as he possibly can.  Trumpies are very much with us and alive.  He will not be voted to be removed from office because the large part of the repubs are still his minions and they are terrified of him.  He will not be gone for a long time.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 27, 2021, 06:18:35 AM
Biden administration revives plan to put Harriet Tubman on $20 bill

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-administration-revives-plan-to-put-harriet-tubman-on-20-bill/ar-BB1d4PJs?ebsb=2&enablessr=true

I'm curious, if we'll see unfortunate scenes of a certain lot tearing -or at least trying- a 20 bill in front of the camera if this goes through. I thought of that because that kind of moronic stuff happens here. It's not the same of course, but we have seen people pouring liters of coca cola down the drain, stabbing oranges and squeezing them...in protest. When you laugh at people buying products to destroy to protest a company/country selling them, you should remember that there is always something more stupid to come. Yeah, we really, actually have had people stabbing oranges to protest Nederlands. It's a moment that makes you question higher concepts in life because, you know it is not done as trolling, or to be absurd, ironic or crazy, but as a serious, planned act. One beloved comment made by a young man after a cry of desperation on 'being born on this planet, in this country at this time in a 14 billion year old universe' also included 'oranges' rights to retaliate by stabbing turkeys'. Poor kid. Yeah...well.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 27, 2021, 07:00:25 AM
Harriet Tubman on $20 bill?  That should piss off slave owners everywhere.  The $20 bill is the only way I can ever remember that Andrew Jackson was a president, but also a supporter of slavery, and active in the slave trade.  Who the Hell put him on the $20 in the first place?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on January 27, 2021, 07:34:41 AM
If I was designing currency, I wouldn't focus on any individuals. I would choose themes or events such as "Liberty" with the signing of the Declaration of Independence, "Freedom" with the Emancipation Proclamation, or "Bravery" with the Apollo 11 moon landing.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on January 27, 2021, 08:46:09 AM
'Oklahoma Wants To Return Its $2 Million Stockpile Of Hydroxychloroquine'
Fucking dumbasses.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 27, 2021, 08:47:12 AM
SGOS is right though. It's about sending a specific message and pissing people off. At this point I can't evaluate the situation in a healthy way.
But you know what, among all those figures, if a slavery supporter was chosen to put on probably the most often used money bill in the country, may be it is time somebody should change it with her to poke people in the eye on how fucked up that is, considering the point things arrived.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 27, 2021, 09:14:49 AM
Quote from: Cassia on January 27, 2021, 08:46:09 AM
'Oklahoma Wants To Return Its $2 Million Stockpile Of Hydroxychloroquine'
Fucking dumbasses.
lol.  See?  See?!! And they wonder how a crazy but much beloved person like Trump could harm the country in anyway.  $2 Million in Hydroxchoroquine?  Just pass it out to the Oakies for free, and Oklahoma may become the malaria free capitol of the world.  Yankees might go there to escape Malaria.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on January 27, 2021, 03:39:52 PM
And due to that massive order placed on a whim by some guy who clearly doesn't understand science (ripping off his mask while infectious with covid was a pretty big red flag) and it just sat at some facility somewhere while people who actually needed hydroxychloroquine for Lupus couldn't get it (https://www.propublica.org/article/lupus-patients-cant-get-crucial-medication-after-president-trump-pushes-unproven-coronavirus-treatment).

Trump infamously said of hydroxychloroquine: "what do we have to lose? (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine-anti-malaria-drug-latest-a9447796.html)"  Good question.  Let's ask the Lupus patients who got screwed over.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on January 27, 2021, 10:49:08 PM
140 officers now reported as being injured during the insurrection; 2 dead (one on the job, the other by suicide a day or two later), brain injuries, spinal damage, an officer will be losing an eye, one impaled by a metal fence post...

Still, we shouldn't hold people accountable for that... we need to move on! Killing cops and trying to murder Congress isn't a big deal, like say Benghazi or Monica Lewenski.

https://www.npr.org/sections/insurrection-at-the-capitol/2021/01/27/961268306/unconscionable-capitol-police-union-says-leadership-failed-officers-in-riot?utm_term=nprnews&utm_campaign=politics&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com (https://www.npr.org/sections/insurrection-at-the-capitol/2021/01/27/961268306/unconscionable-capitol-police-union-says-leadership-failed-officers-in-riot?utm_term=nprnews&utm_campaign=politics&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsxqlsCXEAIUj7C?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 29, 2021, 12:50:39 PM
AP source: Lawmakers threatened ahead of impeachment trial

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ap-source-lawmakers-threatened-ahead-of-impeachment-trial/2021/01/24/e541218a-5ea5-11eb-a177-7765f29a9524_story.html

QuoteWASHINGTON â€" At least five people facing federal charges have suggested they believed they were taking orders from Trump when they marched on Capitol Hill to challenge the certification of Biden’s election victory. But now those comments, captured in interviews with reporters and federal agents, are likely to take center stage as Democrats lay out their case.

More than 130 people have been charged by federal prosecutors for their roles in the riot. In recent weeks, others have been arrested after posting threats against members of Congress.

They include a Proud Boys supporter who authorities said threatened to deploy “three cars full of armed patriots” to Washington, threatened harm against Sen. Raphael Warnock, D-Ga., and who is accused of stockpiling military-style combat knives and more than 1,000 rifle rounds in his New York home. A Texas man was arrested this week for taking part in the riot at the Capitol and for posting violent threats, including a call to assassinate Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-JOaNhx0F8
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on January 29, 2021, 01:18:38 PM
The funny thing about the "Q" thing is that atheists used to be the satanic baby eaters. I guess we are off the hook now that we all know it was the liberal elites all along.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsN96zE8FuE
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on January 29, 2021, 02:01:10 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 29, 2021, 12:50:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-JOaNhx0F8

Not everyone who has radical political views or engages in criminal activity is mentally ill. Should mental health professionals "de-program" #BLM supporters who engage in violence or is this de-programming reserved for people with whom we disagree? I support restorative justice and universal access to mental health care but this guy's perception of mental health treatment really bothers me. Humanistic mental health professionals don't set the agenda, the client does, including situations where treatment is mandated.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 29, 2021, 03:35:07 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on January 29, 2021, 02:01:10 PM
Not everyone who has radical political views or engages in criminal activity is mentally ill. Should mental health professionals "de-program" #BLM supporters who engage in violence or is this de-programming reserved for people with whom we disagree? I support restorative justice and universal access to mental health care but this guy's perception of mental health treatment really bothers me. Humanistic mental health professionals don't set the agenda, the client does, including situations where treatment is mandated.

Honestly, I think he means trying to integrate them back into reality, GSO. He is using the word cult, literally. He doesn't mean 'oh they are like a cult'. These people are not some bunch of crazies who just doesn't agree with you and will go their own way to do their own crazy things. I agree with him on the cult definition. They are a cult whose members are determined to murder people. 

I know that this idea is probably very alien to American culture, scary and sounding very exaggerated. You guys are not used to a defined, resident domestic terrorist group. I know that fear. It changes everything. Fortunately, you guys have huge space.

This is not something like gun violence, shootings that happens here and there. There is nothing more dangerous/deadly than an organised, armed mass of people, scattered around somewhere, who are completely convinced that they are the righteous saviors of something, and that only they can do it. That's who they are and that's how people are convinced to blow themselves up. I know how this sounds to you. It sounds the same to me. It isn't something we can wrap our heads around.

I'd like to say exactly like ISIL, but it is actually worse because a member of a terrorist group like ISIL, cannot integrate normal life, live with people, look like normal people and so cannot recruit people directly, so it is different. But these people are not like that.   

BLM supporters is nowhere near an example here. I don't think he is using the word 'deprogram' to describe some process to put opinions or some different life vision in their head with an agenda. He is talking about making these people understand that they are living in a very dangerous delusion, a world completely out of reality. That their country is going on with its normal flow now, as they and their lives will do go on normally; that the regime is not going to change, their lives are not going to change. That nobody is sending them secret orders or messages to start a war. Nobody will take anything from them or force them into something.

This is what they believe. These people believe they are acting in righteous self defense for their own and that if they do not go on, they will lose everything. They are that far gone. 


Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 29, 2021, 04:03:50 PM
In a better expression, I believe he says 'they need to be 'deprogrammed' ' because they are 'programmed' to do something specific which is beyond another political opinion or disagreement or protests. Yes, that is better. Sorry, language switches are exhausting for me sometimes.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on January 29, 2021, 04:11:54 PM
They won't get locked up for 20 years.  That's an exaggeration to underscore the seriousness of their crimes.  They will get fined for trespassing and vandalism at the most.  I could be wrong of course.  There will be NO deprogramming, and GSO was right about therapy. It is only useful to those who want it.  Fines for trespassing are too little to make them face their own issuses effectively. Twenty or thirty years, keeps them off the streets until they are too old to be threats.  There is no intermediate solution that I know of.  Right now the "Law and Order Party" is running for cover, and they want no part of this.  Law and order is only needed for the poor and the miscolored, who make a big issue out of getting murdered by law and order.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 29, 2021, 04:23:55 PM
I think you are right (and the video says the same thing, and offers the rest as 'ideally') but yeah it is not gonna happen.

You are both right on therapy. I know that. I just can't think anything else when thinking about a cult. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on January 29, 2021, 05:52:42 PM
..Or maybe they are just assholes? Assholes United !
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on January 29, 2021, 11:49:39 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 29, 2021, 04:23:55 PM
You are both right on therapy. I know that. I just can't think anything else when thinking about a cult. 

Certainly some members of extremist groups can benefit from therapy, particularly reality testing, but I would recommend these people talk with people who have left extremist groups. There are people who have left white supremacists groups, gangs, and cults who have experience with helping others in those situations.

https://youtu.be/0eD-TKZlbMk
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on January 30, 2021, 08:14:06 AM
OK. That's a good example about how the majority sees these people. I'll try to express what's in my head, you'll find it fringe probably. Anyway, what takes my attention with that video is that the ex-white supremacist says 'he is not a white nationalist because it is this insular group...' (I'm not interested in T**** part really, if not him another one wold getin the role) and goes onto explain how those people interact with others, how they handle people from 'garden-variety' racism, people who are already in track. So he is talking about a notion of conscious racism talked out loud while denying it, without mentioning any other thing. I understand that they have to be brief in front of the camera with limited time because the show's actual message is that there are people who became aware of this madness, got out and it is important for white people to stand up against this, become loud about it.

But I have seen this often before and have difficulty to understand why the racism is taken as an open, admitted main notion while trying to understand these people's actions and motivations. Because in my experience and opinion, people don't work that way. Majority of people who can be brainwashed to go out with guns to kill people, do not start from the point of conscious racism. I don't believe the majority of them see themselves as racists at all, let alone recuriting people this way. Of course there are traditional groups. They are in Q probably too. Bu tI think this one has a unique profile more than that.

It must be frustrating for people in some field of pyshcology to watch terms like 'mental illness', like 'psychopath', 'sociopath' thrown around by people for anything they find abhorrent. I don't think I'm that ignorant, while I know it is equally stupid trying to apply a formula for human behaviour, I also tend to think there should be a common component between people who can be recruited to any kind of organisation of this sort. Doesn't matter what it is. I don't even think it is necessarily political or racial but that's the visible currency because they are the main categories, the fundamental means of conversation.

But esp. because these people are not actually in danger, facing or experiencing any threat. This is very important and makes the whole definition for me. So for example, putting BLM supporters as counter example creates an impass because it is invalid as we all have experienced in the last coup attempt very openly.

In the old world, the people whose jobs are to pick up conversations, forge relationships with suitable recruits are called 'agitators' (and the process, 'agitation') in ideological brainwashing. These people often know the whole literature/counter literature with its ins and outs, every angle, every possible answer against their ideology, the profile of people they can possibly recruit and they almost always have some preaching, oratorical talents, fatherly attitudes esp. if their pursue is promising.

But besides all that there is crucial element of brainwashing -which agitators use perfectly- and it is injecting victimhood. Convincing the individual that he is subjected to an injustice with no way out, with a doomed end which he can't get out without violence and destruction, while he is of more and ultimately the deserving one -with careful wording (entitled)- if he is to take the responsibility, do what's necessary. And this needs to be a common, 'natural' victimhood in the group that exists in reality.

E: For the very process of brainwashing, which his online today, all you need is a departure point to be picked up by the individual. Face to face process, today which comes much later, finding what that individual lacks in their lives and build it around that. This is mostly very primitive and simple I think. I'm not going to put money in the first place. I'll put,

-Being a part of something, belonging to some group
-Working together for a mutual goal, belief; the sense of unity and solidarity that comes with it
-Doing good and the right for the world
-Saving the world

-Money and life style
-Desire to have women for men, becoming a certain profile of women for women. (Yeah, well young women are the common object of desire unfortunately.)

This is how you start to brainwash people to recruit for a terrorist group like ISIL to a manosphere group or some religious cult bunkers in the desert.

But every time, there is a desire, there is a need at play to trigger that. Something specific to abuse for a group of people that could be found in real life. Now, what is the set of desires or need at play for this group? Racism and religion. Being white and religous are not natural victimhoods. That's why they keep creating tons of fuckced up fake ones. But nevertheless, this is the ready answer given to their motivation. But I see a very highly diverse group where majority is not even interested in races or religions to begin with.

I'm not claiming anything, it is just an opinion in the end but when I read their posts, their objectives, look at them...etc. I see mass schizophrenia and think that it has occured connecting certain profile of people with certain mental dispositions via social media. I actually want to say social media is driving people with certain dispositons crazy, but I won't. :lol: Do you remember the Satanist mass paranoia in the 80s? Like that but consideirng the circumstances, the climate, the time...it is in a higher level and more complicated way. The traditional KKK meets the religious freaks look like a bake sale on the ground with this lot.

***Sorry, it became too long. Trying to express it simply, one by one, so the language wouldn't get the better of me.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on February 01, 2021, 09:24:20 AM
Biden's approval rating for an incoming president is apparently lower than any other, except for Donald Trump.  54%.  I would have expected it to be higher just because so many would still be basking in the euphoria of an absent Trump.  But Trump is such a god to that other 46 percent, that Biden must seem like the Devil to them, and if he actually does something good, they won't admit it.

"Trump Pence" signs still decorate my area in abundance, and even outnumber the once more prominent "Thank You, Jesus" signs.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on February 01, 2021, 09:30:32 AM
Quote from: SGOS on February 01, 2021, 09:24:20 AM
Biden's approval rating for an incoming president is apparently lower than any other, except for Donald Trump.  54%.  I would have expected it to be higher just because so many would still be basking in the euphoria of an absent Trump.  But Trump is such a god to that other 46 percent, that Biden must seem like the Devil to them, and if he actually does something good, they won't admit it.

"Trump Pence" signs still decorate my area in abundance, and even outnumber the once more prominent "Thank You, Jesus" signs.
Like covid, I think this will get uglier before it gets better.  And I'm hoping for better.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on February 01, 2021, 02:08:51 PM
Yeah, me too, Mike, but we know that hope doesn't affect reality unless it's combined with hard work. There's a lot of that to be done if we're ever going to bring the Trumpanistas back into the realm of reality.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on February 02, 2021, 01:00:18 PM
Russia sentences Opposition leader to more than two years in prison.

QuoteNYT
“Hundreds of thousands cannot be locked up,” Mr. Navalny said during the hearing before he was sentenced. “I really hope that more and more people will recognize this. And when they recognize this â€" and that moment will come â€" all of this will fall apart, because you cannot lock up the whole country.”
This is chilling considering our own situation, although we have not locked up Trump.  But even being close to thinking it may be necessary, is not something I want in our democracy.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on February 02, 2021, 01:34:59 PM
QuoteNYT
Donald Trump’s lawyers denied that he incited the Capitol riot as House impeachment managers laid out a case that he was “singularly responsible.”
He will beat the impeachment of course.  It's just an impeachment with political partisans as the jury.  But it has annoyed me for years listening and watching "hate radio" celebrities stirring the fires of violence while hiding behind the 1st amendment.  OK, now we've had the violence.  Are we going to rethink the 1st amendment or is it really OK to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater?  They tell me that's actually against the law, and whadayaknow, people do refrain from doing it.  I think it's time to regulate the 1st.  I'm not buying that you can say anything you want and get away with it.  Words have consequences.  I expect most everyone to disagree, and I won't defend myself.  FWIW, it's just where I'm at.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on February 02, 2021, 01:49:25 PM
Quote from: SGOS on February 02, 2021, 01:34:59 PM
He will beat the impeachment of course.  It's just an impeachment with political partisans as the jury.  But it has annoyed me for years listening and watching "hate radio" celebrities stirring the fires of violence while hiding behind the 1st amendment.  OK, now we've had the violence.  Are we going to rethink the 1st amendment or is it really OK to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater?  They tell me that's actually against the law, and whadayaknow, people do refrain from doing it.  I think it's time to regulate the 1st.  I'm not buying that you can say anything you want and get away with it.  Words have consequences.  I expect most everyone to disagree, and I won't defend myself.  FWIW, it's just where I'm at.
I agree with you.  People seem to think that one can say anything, to anybody and it falls under the 1st. amendment.  Even when it does, they want to reject the responsibility that is attached to what you say.  We do have a category for speech called, fighting words. 
https://mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/959/fighting-words

It seems to me that making a threat falls into this category.  We need the courts to uphold this and we need people to be charged for fighting words.  So, SGOS, I stand with you on this.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on February 02, 2021, 02:38:05 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on February 02, 2021, 01:49:25 PM
I agree with you.  People seem to think that one can say anything, to anybody and it falls under the 1st. amendment.  Even when it does, they want to reject the responsibility that is attached to what you say.

When people cite the First Amendment it's almost never actually about the First Amendment. Trump didn't make tweets and then get arrested-- that's covered by the First Amendment. He is being judged for the consequences of his statements and actions, which involve things like intent and reasonably predictable results. The First Amendment doesn't absolve people of responsibility.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on February 02, 2021, 03:05:52 PM
Here is a summary of an interesting psychological analysis of Trump's support

A Complete Psychological Analysis of Trump's Support (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201812/complete-psychological-analysis-trumps-support)

1. Practicality Trumps Morality - For some wealthy people, it’s simply a financial matter.

2. The Brain’s Attention System Is More Strongly Engaged by Trump - According to a study that monitored brain activity while participants watched 40 minutes of political ads and debate clips from the presidential candidates, Donald Trump is unique in his ability to keep the brain engaged.

3. America’s Obsession with Entertainment and Celebrities - Essentially, the loyalty of Trump supporters may in part be explained by America’s addiction to entertainment and reality TV.

4. “Some Men Just Want to Watch the World Burn.” - Some people are supporting Trump simply to be rebellious or to introduce chaos into the political system.

5. The Fear Factor: Conservatives Are More Sensitive to Threat - Science has  shown that the conservative brain has an exaggerated fear response when faced with stimuli that may be perceived as threatening.

6. The Power of Mortality Reminders and Perceived Existential Threat - A well-supported theory from social psychology, known as Terror Management Theory, explains why Trump’s fear-mongering is doubly effective.

7. The Dunning-Kruger Effect: Humans Often Overestimate Their Political Expertise - Some who support Donald Trump are under-informed or misinformed about the issues at hand.

8. Relative Deprivation â€" A Misguided Sense of Entitlement - Relative deprivation refers to the experience of being deprived of something to which one believes they are entitled. It is the discontent felt when one compares their position in life to others who they feel are equal or inferior but have unfairly had more success than them.

9. Lack of Exposure to Dissimilar Others - Intergroup contact refers to contact with members of groups that are outside one’s own, which has been experimentally shown to reduce prejudice.

10. Trump’s Conspiracy Theories Target the Mentally Vulnerable - While the conspiracy theory crowd â€" who predominantly support Donald Trump and crackpot allies like Alex Jones and the shadowy QAnon â€" may appear to just be an odd quirk of modern society, some of them may suffer from psychological illnesses that involve paranoia and delusions, such as schizophrenia, or are at least vulnerable to them, like those with schizotypy personalities.

11. Trump Taps into the Nation’s Collective Narcissism - Collective narcissism is an unrealistic shared belief in the greatness of one’s national group.

12. The Desire to Want to Dominate Others - Social dominance orientation (SDO) â€" which is distinct from but related to authoritarian personality (#13) â€" refers to people who have a preference for the societal hierarchy of groups, specifically with a structure in which the high-status groups have dominance over the low-status ones.

13. Authoritarian Personality - Authoritarianism refers to the advocacy or enforcement of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom, and is commonly associated with a lack of concern for the opinions or needs of others.

14. Racism and Bigotry - It would be grossly unfair and inaccurate to say that every one of Trump’s supporters have prejudice against ethnic and religious minorities, but it would be equally inaccurate to say that few do.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on February 02, 2021, 04:33:07 PM
Mike CI:  Good news.  The law is starting to take speech seriously.  This doesn't mean the courts will, but it's a start.

QuoteNYT
He Threatened Pelosi. Agents Didn’t Wait to See if He Really Meant It.

After a “9/11 moment,” federal authorities have begun arresting people for domestic threats they might have just monitored in the past.

A Proud Boys supporter in New York accused of posting violent threats on the social media network Parler. A Colorado man charged with sending a text about “putting a bullet” in Speaker Nancy Pelosi. A man near Chicago implicated in a voice mail message about killing Democrats on Inauguration Day.

They were all arrested in recent weeks as part of an escalating effort by law enforcement officials across the country to react more quickly to menacing rhetoric in the wake of the deadly U.S. Capitol breach.

Law enforcement agencies have long struggled to decipher whether online statements could lead to real danger, wary of bringing cases hinged largely on speech that could be protected by the First Amendment. But the volume of tips about threats has skyrocketed since the Capitol assault, leading some officials to decide not to wait to see if violent language developed into action.

Nearly a dozen people who the authorities said made politically motivated threats by social media or phone have been charged with federal crimes.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on February 03, 2021, 09:22:17 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on February 02, 2021, 03:05:52 PM
Here is a summary of an interesting psychological analysis of Trump's support

I have problems with this list. The key is the self entitlement but it looks like it is being treated seperately. Because when you put it this way:

Quote1. Practicality Trumps Morality - For some wealthy people, it%u2019s simply a financial matter.

It sort of suggests that they are OK with other groups' prosperity as long as theirs is intact. No, they are not. One of the pillars of ALL nationalist, far right ideologies; devisive politics in the world is that the accumulation of wealth is 'changing hands' and going to the 'undeserved ones' and somebody, a some sort of minority, a different group is usurping the rights of being the first class from the white. Because if other groups have started to jump class, esp. beyond the usual celebrities like black athletes and musicians, that means white people are being actively 'prevented' and pushed back.

Quote2. The Brain%u2019s Attention System Is More Strongly Engaged by Trump - According to a study that monitored brain activity while participants watched 40 minutes of political ads and debate clips from the presidential candidates, Donald Trump is unique in his ability to keep the brain engaged.

What does that even mean? This is even more fringe than my 'mass schizophrenia' take. This is NOT something special about Trump himself. Trump has nothing special in him. This is by far the most mythfiying bullshit I read about a thug.

This reception and reaction to Trump is the result of years of mass emotional abuse and injection of made up victimhoods at every side. So it is the other way around.

I feel like I've been saying the same thing for some time now. At some point, people, esp. young generations found out that they can get a voice and say whatever they like with videos taken out of contexts from real life, agitative, provocative memes; building their own contexts and reality turning into movements and make tons of money from this, become famous and get recognition and respect beyond their peers. It's like a highly addictive designer drug.

Yes it goes around in every groups, but unfortunately, the heteroesexual male is the most vulnerable target and the easiest victim of this by the nature of far right propaganda mechanisms. For example, for a young man to watch countless videos how disgustingly solipsist and evil women are by nature, how the system is bent on for their destruction from an early age is like binging on high quality heroin that won't kill them. For the men beyond a certain age, it is the sweet confirmation of why they have been unsuccesful in life, why their ex-wife is a horrible evil being, how unfairly treated they have been all thir life.

First you crush them; brand in their brains that they are nothing but garbage, that they have no value what's so ever, no future...nothing. And when they start to internalise it, you tell them who is responsible for it and what they should do to fight with it... and that moment you start to feed how big their potantial actually is. Narcissism starts here. And it has no end, then 15 to 25 year old kids hate women with a vengeance (?) as if they've had any bit of life experience about anything and think they are some sort of 'scientific' minded people because they were born with a penis. What's been going out there is that tragic and comical.

Once people are hooked into this, all they need is a bigger dose. And that's what happened. What started as 'how to pick up women' ended with real life battle of political ideologies and different realities. More and more and more...these groups kept getting extreme and extreme. Because they need more of the same drug to go on. And what was their first motto? Expressing their arguments out loud everwhere possible. It's the first rite of passge for all young men in certain circles. Going against women, black people, Jewish people, immigrants...every kind of minorities out loud to be accepted in that group. Nothing is wrong with expressing one's opinion in the way they like, right? Yeah but it matters and it has huge consequences. In this case, Brexit and Trump.

Because all that red pill groups have started with anti-semitisim and racism against nonwhite groups in places like old 4chan. It's exactly the good old Hitler argument. Jews are controlling all the accumulation of wealth and so everything idea which never really died in far right circles but strongly resurrected by the 9/11 conspiracies and has become mainstream by the gender fight component; the idea of the controlling of Hollywood with nonwhite and female and lghtb+ promotion against white het males.

So in this case, this little luxury called 'freedom of speech' of Western civilisation -with strong incentives like money and power- worked for everything against freedom and equality in mass scale. It's become a threat to it. Because these groups actually HAVE TAPPED INTO TRUMP. Trump was just there. He wasn't different when he ran for the presidency for the first time 20 years ago. He was exactly the same man. He was talking the same way for that time, defending the same ideals. It just didn't make any sense to anyone because this culture didn't exist then. People just laughed and mostly didn't even take him seriously. Actually he was dismissed so much by certain groups, even when this culture was established, nobody actually recognised the connection and guessed that he will win.

In the end it is all about 'profitting' on everything possible. It's not really different than selling shampoo in the 70s. The make up is different and it is more elaborated.

Everything down the list is tied to this created world vision. A mass of people celebrating a thug with low street talk, his fascist demeanor in every aspect. Racism and bigotry...no shit. How difficult to agitate prejudices and turn into full bolwn racism/bigotry with a highly addictive constant emoitonal abuse. Very easy. Takes a few weeks. I have seen it happening live. Seriously.

We all have natural prejudices to begin with. I'll give myself as an example. I'm conscious that I have general prejudice against heterosexual male and female. The first is an object of desire for me to begin with. So, it's not just that I see him as traditional perpetrator, this emprial figure, but I also don't trust myself because I don't believe I can be neutral about him without trying. The second one is also problematic again, because I'm a heterosexual female and I know what is going on there. No, I can't be objective to my gender/sexuality group, and you can't be either. Noone can. My queer tendencies nowhere near strong enough to feel at home with lesbians, I've found them too closed, yeah I get them, but doesn't change the outcome.

And almost all my adult life, trying to get the better of myself, working hard to catch myself out if you will, I've realised the only group I really take seriously is the homosexual males and female transgenders. (Probably why I'm so reactive to right wing gay men. Can't stand them. There is a kind of feeling of strong betrayal there.) Also liberal Jews. I have predilection for these groups. And that makes me conscious and actively check for my opinions. Yeah, I'm a regular crackpot, but if I looked for some group to fit in, build some fake ego and watch videos of a fucked up sub groups of these people 24/7, you'll bet some time later I will see other groups as enemies. Same with socialist groups. I know that what's gonna happen in my brain if I try to follow them. So I prevent it.

[By the way, this is not the first time the Western Civilisation is going through the same path. Gender and sexuality, how human behaves in soial life is always the best first step to push some ideology down people's throats because it is the only way that connects any argument to real life and agitate people so that they can relate instantly in an emotional level. Perfect for manipulation.

If memory serves correctly, a similar thing happened in 1905-1906 in middle Europe with German speaking student movements. their movemnets were completely genderless and without any sexual character and then the moment it received those characters, ideologies start to devide people in every aspect of the society. Freud. Machiavelli. No tstating the obvious. The same thing is happening. And human culture is fast becoming a 'tournament species' behind all this.]
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on February 03, 2021, 11:26:46 AM
Quote4. “Some Men Just Want to Watch the World Burn.” - Some people are supporting Trump simply to be rebellious or to introduce chaos into the political system.

What does this mean? This part is rather weird coming from a PHD in psychology today. I get the urge to ask if they had this notion with certain pop culture elements. 'Breaking Bad' for example? The Joker movie is some sort of a 'mourning triad' for the white man but the tradition starts with Breaking Bad I guess. But then the far right white groups are nowhere near in any position like Walter or Arthur, are they? Joker is a comic book character. He is fictional mass murderer.

When it comes to Walter White, when men -and women- break bad, they don't make some super high quality drugs and become philosopher like scientist criminals. They buy automatic weapons and open fire to people in some public place. Yes they have manisfestos which changes nothing form unabomber to the piece of shit in the Las Vegas hotel balcony.

What takes for a person to want to see the world burn? People who get armed to commit mass murder, do it because they want to do it and they can. They make a decision and a plan for it. They're perfectly aware what they are doing.

Introducing chaos to politics? What does bringing plastic handcuffs and weaponry to a planned coup attempt, planning to kill elected officials have to do with chaos? It's opposite of chaos; it is organised. It's planned. They have been screaming they will do this for how long now? How many threats have been made just last year before the pandemic?

You know what, I'm starting to think that these people might actually never be defined for what they are or even lawfully sentenced for the crimes they have comitted. Not as an organised domestic terrorists attempting a coup on the United States government, but some sort of mysterious, poor 'idiosyncratic' nut jobs going crazy and having a 'mishap' because they are white and therefore without criminal liability, 'upset' on losing an election. After all, this has happened in the USA.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on February 04, 2021, 02:21:00 AM
It feels like were losing and may still end up in a civil war. These republicans are simply human garbage that needs to be taken out permanently.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on February 05, 2021, 08:31:28 AM
Here is an interview with a woman who went down the QAnon rabbit hole. Her journey was started and perpetuated by social media. She acknowledges she tends to conform-- "I've always been someone that you just tell me what to do and I do it. I grew up being told we were Republicans so I've always been that straight red ticket." She also acknowledges she was depressed and obviously is very fearful about the state of the world.

https://youtu.be/QHOK_9hWU5U
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on February 05, 2021, 10:04:53 AM
That was so sad.  I know it's a story of redemption, but I'm sad that people so easily buy into nonsense.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on February 05, 2021, 10:10:40 AM
Quote from: SGOS on February 05, 2021, 10:04:53 AM
That was so sad.  I know it's a story of redemption, but I'm sad that people so easily buy into nonsense.
That is true.  But that is who and what we are.  As a society in this nation, we have always fallen for the conspiracy ideas.  I don't think we will ever stop.  From the beginning, we have been the place where the christian wackos came who broke off from the christian mainline (who are wackos in their own right) who insisted they wanted to be free (to tell all others how to live and what to think).
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on February 05, 2021, 01:37:08 PM
It is not "just us" every culture in history, it seems, wants to believe that the ills of society are due to the new comers, the oddballs, the different.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on February 05, 2021, 01:40:32 PM
Because of Twitter ban, Trump reportedly writing out insults and asking aides to tweet them (https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-suggests-insults-for-aides-tweet-report-2021-2)

(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2019-08/8/16/asset/3bef12dc0bdd/sub-buzz-1431-1565282069-1.png)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on February 06, 2021, 07:15:25 AM
Yeah...Nope. That QANON mom video is bullshit. You don't get brainwashed to a degree that you don't know what happened in the country for the last 4-5 years, have some breakdown -physical reaction level- when your leader loses, who by the way admittedly the only person you would believe for anything going on, thinking you'll have to take your kid from school, go into hiding while you don't even have any financial security AND THEN SUDDENLY recover perfectly in days or a week (?), run to the world's biggest news network to tell your story, posing running around in beach with a family picture.

That woman doesn't look like a recovered cult member, but more like someone who lost his job because of the pandemic, and looking for ways out with 15 minutes of fame. Who is that man with her and her daughter? Brother, husband, boyfriend? Was he in it? Cult members do not go on living with others out of their cult, getting along peacefully. Maybe she just liked the QANON as an idea and had some belief in it?

Come on America, this is not the the time for this.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on February 06, 2021, 08:01:21 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on February 06, 2021, 07:15:25 AM
You don't get brainwashed to a degree that you don't know what happened in the country for the last 4-5 years, have some breakdown -physical reaction level- when your leader loses, who by the way admittedly the only person you would believe for anything going on...
I wondered the same thing; Just how brainwashed was this woman? In fact there are degrees of behavior and belief (and brainwashing).  And there are other mechanisms like just going along with the crowd (or not going along with the crowd).  Humans react in illogical ways and believe illogical things for a variety of motivations.  Maybe she was just playing an attention getting role by believing conspiracy theories, and then suddenly saw more potential attention by having the great epiphany and coming back to reality.

Think Christian fundamentalists "sinning" up a storm, and then coming back to church to confess having dirty sex with strangers.  The congregation shudders at the vileness of it all, and applauds when the sinner is born again.  And then the next guy has to top the story before him with some sin even more hideous.  It's a role that people play to meet the expectations of others, and gain approval or get attention, and along the way to fulfill some personal needs.

I think in all these situations, there's a level of awareness about what they are doing, so switching back and forth is easy for some.  But this is only one explanation.  Humans are not rational by default.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on February 06, 2021, 08:15:35 AM
Quote from: SGOS on February 06, 2021, 08:01:21 AM
I wondered the same thing; Just how brainwashed was this woman? In fact there are degrees of behavior and belief (and brainwashing).  And there are other mechanisms like just going along with the crowd (or not going along with the crowd).  Humans react in illogical ways and believe illogical things for a variety of motivations.  Maybe she was just playing an attention getting role by believing conspiracy theories, and then suddenly saw more potential attention by having the great epiphany and coming back to reality.

Think Christian fundamentalists "sinning" up a storm, and then coming back to church to confess having dirty sex with strangers.  The congregation shudders at the vileness of it all, and applauds when the sinner is born again.  And then the next guy has to top the story before him with some sin even more hideous.  It's a role that people play to meet the expectations of others, and gain approval or get attention, and along the way to fulfill some personal needs.

I think in all these situations, there's a level of awareness about what they are doing, so switching back and forth is easy for some.  But this is only one explanation. 

That is good. I haven't thought of that kind of dynamic with people; anotherbenefit. I have just thought of financial incentive considering the health crisis world is in. You are probably right about the religous connection too.

Cult members are a serious threat when they stop seeing other people as human beings I guess. That's when they are able to kill with no remorse for some 'good' in their heads. After all they are different than serial killers in that sense.

QuoteHumans are not rational by default.

Human species wouldn't have been able to survive, if they had been rational by default.

Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on February 08, 2021, 11:31:42 AM
(https://scontent.fhou1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/146508050_10159729204266800_8040842983157904616_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=KHivcbZJtyAAX9VfF3r&_nc_ht=scontent.fhou1-1.fna&oh=199cb9e6f156520c64f60892b382dd71&oe=6045AD5E)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Gerard on February 08, 2021, 12:56:02 PM
 :agreenod:
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on February 08, 2021, 05:12:50 PM
Hey, Gerard. Haven't seen you in a while.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on February 08, 2021, 09:17:57 PM
I think the defense had something to do with TB's win. It wasn't all Brady.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on February 09, 2021, 12:11:58 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on February 08, 2021, 09:17:57 PM
I think the defense had something to do with TB's win. It wasn't all Brady.

No, see. If you stop the count early and only count the legal points, the Chiefs totally win easily. It's a conspiracy. There needs to be an investigation, and we have to find 23 missing Chiefs points or else people are going to lose faith in pro football as an institution.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on February 09, 2021, 12:37:33 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on February 09, 2021, 12:11:58 AMNo, see. If you stop the count early and only count the legal points, the Chiefs totally win easily. It's a conspiracy. There needs to be an investigation, and we have to find 23 missing Chiefs points or else people are going to lose faith in pro football as an institution.
You could just have the ref declare the Chiefs to be the winner.  Otherwise, certain people might storm the field to fight for their liberty or something else on the verge of but not technically a threat in the court of law.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on February 09, 2021, 04:49:17 AM
What's going on?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on February 09, 2021, 07:52:19 AM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on February 09, 2021, 04:49:17 AM
What's going on?
American football “sweetie” you wouldn’t understand....😉
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on February 09, 2021, 10:23:36 AM
 :neutral:...maybe I would?  :victory:
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on February 09, 2021, 02:10:02 PM
American football is like quantum mechanics: anyone who thinks they understand it doesn't understand it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on February 09, 2021, 02:15:38 PM
I don't understand it.
The ball isn't a ball, it's a weird egg. And you hardly kick it. Why is it called football? Why?!

In all seriousness though, congrats on Brady and his team. Quite the achievement.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on February 09, 2021, 03:24:17 PM
The American football started out as an inflated pigs bladder--the same as the first soccer and rugby balls.  American footballs slowly became more oval and the other two more round.  At one time, the American football was made of leather stitched together; the laces are not needed for the modern ball, but kept so it can be easier to handle, especially by the quarterbacks.   

As an aside, the pros, back in the day, would use the drop kick.  I think it is still used in rugby, but not sure.  Anyway, in the 20's and 30's especially, the drop kick was used to score a field goal or extra point.  I can still be used today, but nobody has done so since the 40's.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on February 09, 2021, 08:18:44 PM
Obligatory, "Fuck Tom Brady" post.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on February 09, 2021, 08:33:44 PM
We spend $750 billion annually on "defense" and the center of American government fell in two hours to the duck dynasty....Just illustrates how capitalist democracies die from the inside out.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on February 09, 2021, 09:05:01 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on February 09, 2021, 08:18:44 PM
Obligatory, "Fuck Tom Brady" post.
Not a fan of maga Brady.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on February 10, 2021, 08:53:04 AM
I don’t think Tom is a MAGA guy. Got a hat given to him, coulda been while at practice and overlooked it. He has such a close relationship with so many black athletes I’m somewhat sure he cringed at all the Trump race baiting.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on February 10, 2021, 09:12:35 AM
Trump Vs Biden is a dying thread now that Trump is gone.  I would have started a Trump Vs America thread, but anything about the impeachment will be short lived and we already know the outcome.

https://mail.yahoo.com/b/folders/1/messages/AA3jrIwq8gT5YCPC5Q82iJlJY6o?.src=ym&reason=unsupported_browser&showImages=true&offset=0&folderType=INBOX

QuoteTrump’s lawyers condemned the attack on the Capitol but said Democrats were pursuing impeachment out of partisan vengeance. And they argued that making a former president stand trial would establish the precedent for any former official to be punished at the whim of the party in power. “This is nothing less than the political weaponization of the impeachment process,” David Schoen, one of the former president’s lawyers, said.  But the performance of Trump’s lawyers received mostly dreadful reviews.

I listened to part of the impeachment, but heard both sides.  Maybe being a liberal fogs my mind, but I don't think so.  I could easily follow the thinking of the Democrats, but had a harder time even understanding the Republicans point. 

The dreadful reviews above may be partisan, but the Republicans may have made some good points.  They were very pedantic about the meaning of words and the constitution, and I see value in that, but I don't know if their interpretation of the intentions of the framers of the constitution is correct or not.  They repeatedly stressed the unconstitutionality of the impeachment, but this is totally hypocritical because their constitutionality arguments are being used to protect a president whose last two months in office were precisely about undermining the constitution.

If impeachment is also about preventing Trump from again attempting to wreck the system, I would damn the pedantics, and get to the point.  Trump is all about trying to subvert our system, specifically one part of the system that has yet to be determined as flawed. OK, redistricting the votes, and putting hard to get to polling places in minority districts is flawed, but voter suppression is currently a Republican tactic, and that is a flaw.  Change it, and that can be done without violating the constitution.

I don't see the impeachment about punishing a Republican.  It's about restricting the actions of dangerous men who will grab power any way they can, including subverting the Constitution if necessary.

Quote
"And they [Republicans] argued that making a former president stand trial would establish the precedent for any former official to be punished at the whim of the party in power."
But their [Republican] actions would also assure than no future or former official can not be punished for subversion of the state.

I think the Republican lawyers are in the weaker position, ethically.  Actually they are unnecessary because our leaders are partisan and the outcome is already known.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on February 10, 2021, 01:55:06 PM
Democrats are doing an excellent job of building their case right now.  I think it will make a slight difference among voters, but very little with the leadership.  Their case at the moment is centered around the reasoning that you can't yell fire in a crowded theater, and they're making a much better case than I imagined they would on this issue.  It's very compelling, and makes a strong case that Trump has gone beyond his first amendment rights.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on February 10, 2021, 02:03:11 PM
Quote from: SGOS on February 10, 2021, 09:12:35 AMTrump Vs Biden is a dying thread now that Trump is gone.
He might be out of office and off Twitter, but he's far from gone.  The nation is still reeling from his attempted coup and charges are still being filed.  Trump's still facing impeachment, civil charges, and possibly criminal charges.  And Trump still has an iron grip on the Party - Republicans are feebly trying to define themselves as anything other than the cult of Trump.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on February 10, 2021, 02:11:17 PM
Case in point: Michigan's top Republican says Jan 6th attack was a "hoax" (https://www.npr.org/2021/02/10/966207859/michigans-top-republican-calls-u-s-capitol-attack-a-hoax)

QuoteSenate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey, in a video posted on YouTube of a meeting with Hillsdale County Republican Party officials, said of the Capitol insurrection in which five people died: "It was all staged."
Not the slightest bit accurate or logical, but it's convenient for the Party and displays loyalty to Daddy, and that's what's really important.

I dunno about you guys, but I see this sort of lie-making as a sign of incredible weakness - being so scared of the truth that one needs to manufacture a completely different reality where the Party doesn't look so bad.  It's an implicit admission that reality makes them look awful.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on February 10, 2021, 03:34:46 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 10, 2021, 02:11:17 PM
I see this sort of lie-making as a sign of incredible weakness - being so scared of the truth that one needs to manufacture a completely different reality where the Party doesn't look so bad.  It's an implicit admission that reality makes them look awful.
incredible weakness and also desperation.  There is every reason to fear the truth for these guys.  They are leaders in the right wing party, many of whom opposed Trump 4 years ago, but who are now reduced to shivering pawns of a highly popular but deranged demigod, who four years before they thought was just a fool.  If they don't support Trump, they will lose what is the strongest, loudest, and largest group of the right wing populous Republican Party that has ever existed.  To face the truth openly at this point would be suicide.  Imagine them saying to their potential supporters that Trump lied to them, manipulated them and turned them into the laughing stock of over half the United States... like idiots.  This huge faction is already unhinged; They thought hanging Mike Pence sounded like a good idea.  They would turn those Senators out into the streets selling pencils from tin cups.

One of the problems with lying to people is getting caught, which except for a politician, is worse than making a mistake.  It's humiliating getting caught in a lie.  Making a mistake is just embarrassing.  So what do they do when their backs are against the wall after a lie?  They create more lies and fictional scenarios until an ordinary person doing the same thing would collapse in a panic of self deprecation.  But they don't panic.  They just lie until people finally throw up their hands and give them a pass... because they're Republican politicians, and it's what we have come to expect whether you are either on the left and in disgust, or the right where you are happy, because any means to an end.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on February 11, 2021, 04:57:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/idCSAs7.png)

The moment Lindsey Graham officially advertised to the world he sold his soul to the devil and is nothing but a pathetic husk of a man, completely and utterly void of even a shred of morality or integrity.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on February 11, 2021, 05:44:50 AM
"Offensive and absurd," is speaking to the base and rhetorical hyperbole. 
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on February 11, 2021, 09:21:46 AM
Of course they’ll let him walk We already knew that. Now we’ll have this type of shitshow every four years, or worse, now every two years between reps.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on February 11, 2021, 10:19:37 AM
Quote from: aitm on February 11, 2021, 09:21:46 AM
Of course they’ll let him walk We already knew that. Now we’ll have this type of shitshow every four years, or worse, now every two years between reps.
One of their arguments was, "It's not constitutional and if we do this to Trump today, it will just become a thing we do to any future president."  But there is an exact opposite to that side of the coin too:  "If we let Trump get away with this today, why won't future presidents be inclined to pull the same shit?"  As far as "constitutional" is concerned, is fomenting insurrections "constitutional?"

But you are right.  We knew this was the way it would be, because we are entrenched in a system that is dying.  That it works at all is taken as some kind of ode to successful democracy, and therefore nothing needs to change.  Republicans don't want to give up the power to win anyway possible, even if it requires calling in the thugs to get it done.  So why would they punish Trump for inciting a riot?  They may need that again someday.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on February 11, 2021, 01:34:06 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on February 11, 2021, 04:57:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/idCSAs7.png)
Is it truly growing or does he merely wish us to believe that it's growing?  It's not like co-conspirators were ever tempted to render a guilty verdict in the first place.  As for offensive, I find it offensive that such weak and spineless idiots still wield great power.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mr.Obvious on February 11, 2021, 02:40:25 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on February 11, 2021, 04:57:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/idCSAs7.png)

The moment Lindsey Graham officially advertised to the world he sold his soul to the devil and is nothing but a pathetic husk of a man, completely and utterly void of even a shred of morality or integrity.

I respectfully disagree.
This is no more than an echo of an echo of an echo. He's thrown out all his credibility and humanity and soul ages ago.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on February 11, 2021, 03:02:56 PM
Graham doesn't just kiss Trump's ass, he French-kisses it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on February 11, 2021, 04:19:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/pqMScV6.jpg)

By this logic, you shouldn't give CPR to someone who's choking or a blood transfusion to someone who's bleeding out.  If you see someone in a bad way, and your first inclination is to let them die, you might be either a sociopath or a Republican.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on February 11, 2021, 04:34:01 PM
'either a sociopath or a Republican'
Redundant--they are one in the same.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on February 11, 2021, 04:36:25 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 11, 2021, 04:19:26 PM
By this logic, you shouldn't give CPR to someone who's choking or a blood transfusion to someone who's bleeding out.  If you see someone in a bad way, and your first inclination is to let them die, you might be either a sociopath or a Republican.
That was my first reaction, even before I read yours.  No I don't need those checks, but I know people that do, and need them badly.  What are their other issues?  Well, I'm not sure, but right now they need to eat and pay the rent so they can survive the winter.  After that, they can focus on those other issues.  I suspect Mr Ramsey's own other issues would require 10 times that $600 to solve, assuming he was broke and the checks came once a month.  Being broke is sadly the issue for too many people. If you're not broke and you can't see that, you've got issues.  Talk about being out of touch with people!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on February 11, 2021, 04:44:37 PM
I remember something Trump said in the first debate with Biden.  About that time people were alarmed by Republicans stuffing the Supreme Court using opposite arguments first not to allow a seating by a president late in his term, but then saying it was fine, as long as it was a Republican the next time it happened.  Trump said quite authoritatively, "Elections have consequences."  Hell, I even agreed with him on that one.  What he needs to understand right now, however, is that "Elections certainly do have consequences," but he suddenly doesn't believe that at all.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on February 11, 2021, 05:22:39 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 11, 2021, 04:19:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/pqMScV6.jpg)

By this logic, you shouldn't give CPR to someone who's choking or a blood transfusion to someone who's bleeding out.  If you see someone in a bad way, and your first inclination is to let them die, you might be either a sociopath or a Republican.

I think Dave Ramsey has a point, although probably not the point he intended. What exactly is the purpose of this "stimulus check"? Is it suppose to stimulate the economy and save jobs? Is it supposed to provide financial relief for individuals and families? I find it difficult to believe that a one-time check for $600 is going to make any significant change in most people's financial situations or the US economy. Most of these relief efforts are too little, too late. I think the absolute minimum should be $2000 per month for at least three months.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on February 11, 2021, 05:54:20 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on February 11, 2021, 05:22:39 PM
I think Dave Ramsey has a point, although probably not the point he intended. What exactly is the purpose of this "stimulus check"? Is it suppose to stimulate the economy and save jobs?
At this point, it's mostly to forestall homelessness and allow people to buy groceries to survive until vaccinations ramp up to the point most places can reopen and operate with minimal risk, thus allowing a return to semi-normalcy.

You're right that it's far too little and too far inbetween.  A lot of other countries have done better in this area with a much less gruesome deathtoll.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on February 11, 2021, 06:13:01 PM
Regarding government stimulus, "the risk of overdoing it is less than the risk of underdoing it."

https://youtu.be/1Ks54jjNw_s
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Cassia on February 11, 2021, 08:16:45 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on February 11, 2021, 06:13:01 PM
Regarding government stimulus, "the risk of overdoing it is less than the risk of underdoing it."
Yeah, government debt is actually civilian surplus. It mostly ends up taking the form of treasury bonds that are reasonable investments if you believe the empire will survive. Give money to the bottom 50% and they will spend it. How about we start actually taxing corporations again and maybe let the fuckers fail? We are a socialists for the wealthy/corporates and capitalists for the poor.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on February 11, 2021, 11:53:39 PM
Biden admin purchases 200 million more vaccine doses (https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-purchases-200-million-more-pfizer-moderna-covid-vaccine-doses-2021-2)

A helluva upgrade from literally no plan barely over a month ago to enough vaccine doses for nearly everyone.

I've seen it, you take this little beautiful baby, and you pump life-securing vaccines into him/her...we've had many such instances, a child went to have the vaccine, then didn't get sick at all from germs people used to die from literally a year ago.  It was very sad!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on February 12, 2021, 12:48:07 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 11, 2021, 11:53:39 PM
Biden admin purchases 200 million more vaccine doses (https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-purchases-200-million-more-pfizer-moderna-covid-vaccine-doses-2021-2)

A helluva upgrade from literally no plan barely over a month ago to enough vaccine doses for nearly everyone.
I'm finally getting my first shot tomorrow.  Virginia's rollout has been marred by confusion and chaos.  You can probably google that and see that it's not just me.  Partly, there has been no direction from the top.  The responsibility got passed down to the governors, some of whom passed it down to local health departments, and the farther down the chain it got, officials were making different decisions, and we ended up with a mess.

I've been waiting for an appointment for a month.  What has turned the tide here is that CVS stepped up to the plate, and private enterprise did what government could not.  Oh, that was not without problems either.  My neighbor, her husband, and myself spent two full days of frustration trying to navigate a signup system that wasn't working, because the on line system was being reprogrammed while the sign up was to take place, so it would be usable for a couple of minutes, and your signup would get chopped off before you entered all your information, and then one appointment would open up again 15 minutes later, everyone on line would jump into action until like the first sperm that hits the egg, it's over and you have to wait for the next round and start from scratch.  We were doing this at 5:00 AM for the last two days.

My neighbor struck pay dirt first, and I did a few hours later.  I have to drive 100 miles for my shot in snow tomorrow, but I'm hoping it will be light and I'll give my self three hours to get there (50 miles one way).

I've wondered if Biden had anything to to with my good fortune.  I think it's too early for that, but 200 million doses is going to help get this thing get going a lot.  Yeah, from nothing to something.  I'll take it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on February 12, 2021, 02:54:37 AM
At this time, 20 hours after I got an appointment, all 34 CVS stations in Virginia are fully booked.  I drove to mine yesterday, just to make sure I knew where it was and a guy in the store explained procedure to me.  They will have two stations and be giving out one shot at each station every 15 minutes.  This is one of the smaller towns in the state.  Some stores may have more stations than two, I suppose.

Now being fully booked yesterday morning didn't mean exactly that, because one opening would appear every once in a while and disappear quickly, but I imagine it's more fully booked than it was fully booked 24 hours ago.  It's going to take a long time to get Virginia vaccinated.  No news there of course.

I think I'm in the wrong thread, but I'm done for now.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on February 12, 2021, 04:23:08 AM
Stimulus? Screwed up? Where do these people live? And these numbers are pre-pandemic of course.

Serious amount of people have 400 dollars, in dollars, for any emergency expense where I live. It's too bad these people don't have some 'dollar currency' in the US to hide under their pillow.

40% of Americans don't have $400 in the bank for emergency expenses: Federal Reserve

https://abcnews.go.com/US/10-americans-struggle-cover-400-emergency-expense-federal/story?id=63253846

https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/files/2018-report-economic-well-being-us-households-201905.pdf

QuoteAlmost 40% of American adults wouldn%u2019t be able to cover a $400 emergency with cash, savings or a credit-card charge that they could quickly pay off, a Federal Reserve survey finds.

About 27% of those surveyed would need to borrow the money or sell something to come up with the $400 and an additional 12% would not be able to cover it at all, according to the Federal Reserve's 2018 report on the economic well-being of U.S. households released on Thursday.

In addition, 12% of adults said they wouldn't be able to pay their current monthly bills if faced with the unexpected $400 expense, the survey found.

The 2018 results are very similar to those from the Federal Reserve's 2017 survey.

Overall, the number of people who said they are able to handle unexpected expenses is on the rise since the Federal Reserve began the survey in 2013.

However, 17% of adults in the U.S. said they are not able to fully pay off all of their current month%u2019s bills.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: aitm on February 12, 2021, 08:53:59 AM
Frankly I think the repubs are overestimating Trumps base. They see a few thousand, maybe they see a hundred thousand fanatics, but they don’t see that, IMO, probably 50% didn’t vote Trump they voted Republican. I see videos of hundreds protesting all over, but not 35 million. I see a large vocal angry crowds gathered at spots all over the country and protesting...but we are not seeing 35 million. They, IMO, risking the real base of the Republican cause to the idea that the few speak for the majority. Whole no doubt, there are tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands screaming, but we are not seeing 35 million screaming. That would be a whole lot different. Pandering to the vocal because they are scared. Now, I don’t have access to the phone records of all the repubs from their constituents, but I think, if we could, we would find a lot less that we think as far as succumbing to 35 million objections. One jackass calling 50 times, and I do believe that many of them call constantly to scream, there is not 35 million calling. But....I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on February 12, 2021, 09:05:43 AM
My wife's Dr. called her yesterday and said she could get her shot today if she wanted--and she wanted.  Dr. also asked if she had a spouse that needed one, and she said yes.  So, today, both of us get our first one!  We both have been trying for a month or so to navigate the online signup, but it was really wonky.  Anyway, the first today--hooray!   I wonder, tho, just how much of change in daily life that that will mean?  Oh, I want it--but I will not burn my masks just yet.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on February 12, 2021, 09:28:41 AM
Quote from: aitm on February 12, 2021, 08:53:59 AM
Frankly I think the repubs are overestimating Trumps base. They see a few thousand, maybe they see a hundred thousand fanatics, but they don’t see that, IMO, probably 50% didn’t vote Trump they voted Republican. I see videos of hundreds protesting all over, but not 35 million. I see a large vocal angry crowds gathered at spots all over the country and protesting...but we are not seeing 35 million. They, IMO, risking the real base of the Republican cause to the idea that the few speak for the majority. Whole no doubt, there are tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands screaming, but we are not seeing 35 million screaming. That would be a whole lot different. Pandering to the vocal because they are scared. Now, I don’t have access to the phone records of all the repubs from their constituents, but I think, if we could, we would find a lot less that we think as far as succumbing to 35 million objections. One jackass calling 50 times, and I do believe that many of them call constantly to scream, there is not 35 million calling. But....I could be wrong.

I happened to have a conversation yesterday with two guys who identify as conservative and voted for Trump but now do not support him. I suspect there are a lot of people who think Trump didn't live up to expectations. One problem is the mainstream news and social media amplify the extremes. Pundits look for extremes on either side of the political divide to make their points.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on February 12, 2021, 01:08:03 PM
If there was ever a shining example of the difference between Democrats and Republicans/Trump Cultists, this "defense" is it.

Democrats: "Here are the reasons we believe him to be guilty."
Republicans: "Here are the reasons we believe Democrats are the spawn of Satan."

Classic.

They have decided to quintuple down on their brand, which is to just cause more divisiveness and anger.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on February 12, 2021, 01:31:58 PM
Documented evidence
Republicans:  I don't believe in that made up BS!

Someone on Twitter with some weird, incoherent conspiracy theory
Republicans:  So true!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on February 12, 2021, 02:09:33 PM
Nikki Haley breaks with Trump: 'We shouldn't have followed him' (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/538573-haley-breaks-with-trump-we-shouldnt-have-followed-him)

Former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley issued stunning remarks breaking with former President Trump, telling Politico in an interview published Friday that she believes he “let us down.”

“We need to acknowledge he let us down,” Haley, who served in her ambassador role under Trump, said. “He went down a path he shouldn’t have, and we shouldn’t have followed him, and we shouldn’t have listened to him. And we can’t let that ever happen again.”

Haley’s remarks are her strongest yet against the former president in the aftermath of the Jan. 6 Capitol riot and come as Trump's legal team is set to present its defense of Trump on Friday in his second Senate impeachment trial.

The House impeached the former president for a second time shortly after the insurrection, saying his unsubstantiated claims of widespread voter fraud following his election loss to President Biden and his comments earlier that day incited the mob that stormed the Capitol.

The former South Carolina governor told Politico that she has not spoken with Trump since the mob attack, further expressing her disappointment with remarks he gave at a rally ahead of the assault condemning his own vice president, Mike Pence.

“When I tell you I’m angry, it’s an understatement,” Haley said. “I am so disappointed in the fact that [despite] the loyalty and friendship he had with Mike Pence, that he would do that to him. Like, I’m disgusted by it.”

Haley said that the president "believes he is following" his oath of office by challenging the election results, adding, "There’s nothing that you’re ever going to do that’s going to make him feel like he legitimately lost the election." ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on February 12, 2021, 05:48:35 PM
I listened to much of the Republican defense on my way back from getting my covid shot.  I think they did a good job of reaching out and hanging on to their constituents without seeming like they were in on the prank with Trump.  Superficially, it sounded like a great defense of free speech.  And I think they could probably win with their arguments in court of law, with the general understanding of free speech.

As a side note, I've been opposed to free speech for at least 30 years after I first tuned into HATE Radio, as they referred to their station in Kalispell, Montana, but I don't expect anyone to accept my position.  I will say, that I support responsible speech, while I oppose free speech.  But more to the point:

I got a kick out of all the Democrats yelling about how much they want to FIGHT.  That audio was a stunning piece of courtroom drama, which one of the lawyers pointed out carefully, was not about "whataboutism."  OK, it's not about whataboutism, so then it's actually about something else?  But in fact, it was whataboutism, and saying it is not doesn't make it not.

Those Democrats were speaking in metaphors, trying to appear hard working, and if you noticed 90 percent of those fight audios, never asked another person to fight, and when they did, I will admit it becomes a chancy metaphor because you don't know who is listening, and you don't know how they will respond.  Not one of the Democrats, including the females, for all their mighty blather (both the men and the women), ever went out and threw a punch.  This is why it's clearly metaphorical.  Now if they ended up sending a mob to the capitol with their fight words, it ceases to be so metaphorical, and as an advocate of responsible speech would hold them accountable.

But Trump clearly knew his audience.  For four years he had cultivated a deep relationship with the worst of the domestic terror groups known to the FBI, he did everything to make it clear that they saw eye-to-eye on how things must be handled in divisive disagreements like his election loss.  He told them to "Stand by."  He praised their violent behavior, and called them good people.

"Whataboutism," is seldom posited as comparing oranges to oranges.  Whataboutism is used to turn your turd into the other guys' orange.  Remember Brauch?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on February 12, 2021, 06:34:20 PM
Quote from: SGOS on February 12, 2021, 05:48:35 PMI listened to much of the Republican defense on my way back from getting my covid shot.  I think they did a good job of reaching out and hanging on to their constituents without seeming like they were in on the prank with Trump.  Superficially, it sounded like a great defense of free speech.  And I think they could probably win with their arguments in court of law, with the general understanding of free speech.

As a side note, I've been opposed to free speech for at least 30 years after I first tuned into HATE Radio, as they referred to their station in Kalispell, Montana, but I don't expect anyone to accept my position.  I will say, that I support responsible speech, while I oppose free speech.
Conservatives certainly are suddenly much more protective of free speech when one of their own faces consequences than when Colin Kaepernick takes a knee or when people walk the streets to protest for positive change.

Personally, I tend to be extremely permissive when it comes to speech, a policy I've had to continually ruminate on when speech has an associated deathtoll, be it antivaxx speech or speech that leads directly to a deadly, democracy-endangering attack.

Ideally, I'd like to live in a society were people can say whatever they want without tragic consequences.  Is such a thing possible?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on February 12, 2021, 09:52:05 PM
I used to be a free speech absolutist but not anymore. It is too easy to spread false information online, which is especially problematic when that information is selectively targeted. There is the idea that if everyone is allowed to speak freely without censorship the truth will win out but if we have learned anything in the past six years it is that people will gladly accept lies if it suits their agenda. Online misinformation leads to polarization and extremism. Also, online free speech enables people to anonymously harass individuals as a mob, resulting in online and offline consequences. I think there need to be some limits.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on February 12, 2021, 10:07:14 PM
QuoteThere is the idea that if everyone is allowed to speak freely without censorship the truth will win out...

I put that up there with "If the market is free, it will inevitably shift in the consumer's favor" and "Trickle down economics".

Sounds nice, but once you spend time thinking about it you realise just how flawed it really is.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on February 12, 2021, 11:45:59 PM
*a conservative browsing this thread*

Ah ha!  All these liberals are pro-censorship and want a 1984-type society!  Forshame!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on February 13, 2021, 05:42:52 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 12, 2021, 11:45:59 PM
*a conservative browsing this thread*

Ah ha!  All these liberals are pro-censorship and want a 1984-type society!  Forshame!
One of Trump's lawyers did the "For-shame" thing in his concluding remarks yesterday, apparently thinking that's it's OK to send a rioting mob into the Capitol.  And he's shaming Democrats?  He's in an alternate reality.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on February 13, 2021, 06:03:51 AM
Quote from: aitm on February 12, 2021, 08:53:59 AM
Frankly I think the repubs are overestimating Trumps base. They see a few thousand, maybe they see a hundred thousand fanatics, but they don’t see that, IMO, probably 50% didn’t vote Trump they voted Republican. I see videos of hundreds protesting all over, but not 35 million. I see a large vocal angry crowds gathered at spots all over the country and protesting...but we are not seeing 35 million. They, IMO, risking the real base of the Republican cause to the idea that the few speak for the majority. Whole no doubt, there are tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands screaming, but we are not seeing 35 million screaming. That would be a whole lot different. Pandering to the vocal because they are scared. Now, I don’t have access to the phone records of all the repubs from their constituents, but I think, if we could, we would find a lot less that we think as far as succumbing to 35 million objections. One jackass calling 50 times, and I do believe that many of them call constantly to scream, there is not 35 million calling. But....I could be wrong.

No, you have a point. Actually, that's also the case pretty much everywhere around the world with these groups. The average people of the world have lives, partners, spouses, families, kids, jobs, bills... and no time for this shit. And mostly they are not even interested, more importantly, contrary to the common belief most people are sensible. They vote or don't, and watch some news video, follow the events, have a chat about it with their online friends as we do here. It's us.

The problem is that a little amount of people can create mass fear. Because violence changes everything. You know that we try to teach kids that 'violence is never the answer' because that was what they taught us? Because it is good? The thing is, beyond wishful thinking, violence has a huge, unbreachable answer for everything. And that's Fear. And fear changes human behaviour. It's not that what you think about the specific thing itself, or if you agree with it or not, it is how that fear changes the way you see the society you live and your place in it. People, events, the relations between events, phenomena...the way you percieve cause and effect. At some point, the way you live your life. Of course, this does not happen over a night. It happens over years, decades and every time it happens, it's just the normal. When we change our behaviour and lives because the society we live in startes to change, we are not conscious of it most of the time.

How and when have the majority of American people gotten used to the random shootings? School shootings?  If these have become random violence most people even don't want to read about, why wouldn't be the actions of these groups? If the answer is 'because this has a political motivation' then you don't need 35 million people to agree with the little group.

In my opinion, this has a very cliché mechanism, one that is in conflict with the so called post-truth zeitgeist. And that's taking responsibility for the things around you.  When all this happens bit by bit over a certain period of time, people stop taking responsbility in any level. Your dry cleaner, the teacher of your kids in school, the clerk in the shop...the manager in your firm...think every occupation and personal relationship...go up to the administrating levels. But note that I'm not saying these people do illegal things, break rules and laws. They do their job but they do not take responsbile for anything as much as possible. We are these people. That's the result of that growing mass fear and that's the change in behaviour. That's what the elders keep saying with 'when I was at your age...this wouldn't happen' while everyone else in the room rolls their eyes.

It seems that white supremacists have been doing this for a long time, and scoial media was the right medium to 'crystalise' it, if you will. The years of rabbithole effect, the pandemic, insurrection...etc.

These characters coming up saying things, making threats...I see in American news. It's like I'm watching the local news. Word for word. Their body languge is the fucking same. I'm thinking when that wasn't the norm? 17-20 years ago. Nobody would dare to do something like this then in the place I live. It seems to similar with the US.

When I think 'What's happened, what's changed?' while my mind keeps going to factors like social media, mass depression, social media, population growth, social media...I've started to think we are wrong in thinking it is something 'extra' added to human life, something we haven't had before that's the problem; something out of control and became very complicated because of the grand scale and abundance, but in fact, it is something we've had before just little over a tipping point and when it fell down from that degree we've lost it altogether. Something very simple. Nothing to theorise about. Daily life detail. And that carries me to a form of behaviour older generations had almost automatically. Responsibility.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on February 13, 2021, 08:15:08 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 21, 2021, 04:27:03 PM
Not according to faux.  and they always get all the facts right. 
Easy for people to get swooshed these days.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on February 13, 2021, 08:52:34 AM
Quote from: aitm on February 12, 2021, 08:53:59 AM
Frankly I think the repubs are overestimating Trumps base. They see a few thousand, maybe they see a hundred thousand fanatics, but they don’t see that, IMO, probably 50% didn’t vote Trump they voted Republican. I see videos of hundreds protesting all over, but not 35 million. I see a large vocal angry crowds gathered at spots all over the country and protesting...but we are not seeing 35 million. They, IMO, risking the real base of the Republican cause to the idea that the few speak for the majority. Whole no doubt, there are tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands screaming, but we are not seeing 35 million screaming. That would be a whole lot different. Pandering to the vocal because they are scared. Now, I don’t have access to the phone records of all the repubs from their constituents, but I think, if we could, we would find a lot less that we think as far as succumbing to 35 million objections. One jackass calling 50 times, and I do believe that many of them call constantly to scream, there is not 35 million calling. But....I could be wrong.
I always wonder about this kind of thing.  At one time, I thought I misjudged their base, based on a perception that no one can be that stupid, but now I have accepted that people can be that stupid.  But how big that base actually is and how loyal they are, I could be way off in either direction.

We assume politicians have a more scientific way of judging their support.  And it's exactly that; It's an assumption.  I know the president has pollsters, but when you hear from them on TV, they don't act like pollsters.  They act like Madison Avenue advertising agents. Do they actually construct valid polls?  I have no idea.  It's just an assumption.

A Republican Senator in Montana sent out a poll one time, and you've seen them too.  On the surface they are asking for your opinion.  How wonderful.  This guy actually gives a shit about my opinion, but then the questions are all choices designed by his pollster, who doesn't have a clue how to ask questions in a poll.  For example:

---------------------------------
Check one:

Do you want to tie up all forest resources so they cannot be used by anyone?
or
Do you support high wages and jobs for everyone?

Well duh?!  Can I save some resources that would help stave off global warming, and maybe create some jobs that are environmentally friendly? --- No sorry.  You choice is between locking it all up and poverty.  There can be nothing in between.

My reaction when I read the stupid thing, was to wonder how many people see those as the only alternatives.  Well, I guess the Senator doesn't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars sending those things out, if he thinks people will laugh that kind of thing off as the fallacious idiocy that it is.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on February 13, 2021, 09:14:00 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 12, 2021, 11:45:59 PM
*a conservative browsing this thread*

Ah ha!  All these liberals are pro-censorship and want a 1984-type society!  Forshame!

That kind of reaction is an example of polarization. The problems of social media and disinformation are not a left/right issue. We have address the consequences of a new technology, just as we had to deal with the pros and cons of the automobile. No one wants to waste their time determining if the information we see online is accurate. I don't want to worry whether the next presidential address is accurately conveyed or whether parts are deep faked, that what Republicans, Democrats or people in Europe or China or the Middle East see is a different address that has been designed to create conflict. We may not be willing to stop this misinformation because of freedom of speech, that this was "a parody" and "political speech criticizing an elected official" and protected by the First Amendment. This isn't just about America, the people of the world have some hard choices.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on February 13, 2021, 09:27:27 AM
Polls were invented for a day when there was a more common, relatively a more homogenic media existed. At least not a world with opposite realities in conflict. While it looks like the polling would be easier and more accurate with wider audience with internet mediums, I think it has become another medium for propaganda along with every other thing. Also, the literal thinking in most millenials, almost all social media kids -they're still not at the voting age I guess, they will be in next elections *global alarm button pushed- is overwhelming. It's like the first decades of televison. 'If it is on tv, it must have a reality to it' kind of frame of mind. Fucking memes.

Same with quizes and surveys...And eventually, most of them evolved to measure only extreme tendencies at different ends. Because that's the area from every group of people will meet. Otherwise, 'so many different worlds, so many different suns, and we have just one world but we live in different ones' as the poet says. (It's disgusting just trying to make it look better.)

Best polling is the dumb polling. "Who will you vote for?" Not "Why will you vote for that candidate?"

If poll making could predict social media rabbitholes, they wouldn't miss Orange's win.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on February 13, 2021, 12:39:07 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on February 12, 2021, 09:52:05 PMIt is too easy to spread false information online, which is especially problematic when that information is selectively targeted.
(https://preview.redd.it/9b9ld3u1r8h61.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=6c798a21b160397306ffe87b20b4115ca5016ef8)

This guy is a notorious loon to just hammer that point home, lol.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on February 13, 2021, 12:56:30 PM
Why does he look familiar? I think he looks like someone famous.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on February 13, 2021, 01:43:49 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on February 13, 2021, 12:56:30 PM
Why does he look familiar? I think he looks like someone famous.
Hercules on TV.  Went off the deep end and took part in Christian propaganda movies after that, notably playing a fundamentalist caricature of an atheist professor.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: drunkenshoe on February 13, 2021, 01:46:20 PM
Oh yeah...he is the person I think he looks like, lol.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on February 13, 2021, 05:03:38 PM
Twitter vs India (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/11/technology/twitter-vs-india.html)

A remarkable face-off is unfolding between an American internet company and the world’s largest democracy over the appropriate bounds of free speech.

The backdrop is ongoing protests of farmers in India opposing new agriculture laws. The Indian government, citing its laws against subversion or threats to public order, demanded that Twitter delete or hide more than 1,100 accounts that it says have encouraged violence or spread misinformation.

Twitter has complied with some of India’s orders. But Twitter has refused to remove accounts of journalists, activists and others that the company says are appropriately exercising their right to criticize the government.

The government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi is saying Twitter is breaking the law. Twitter is saying that India is breaking its own laws. And democracy activists say that tech companies like Twitter shouldn’t play along when governments pass laws that effectively shut down free speech. ...
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on February 13, 2021, 07:27:54 PM
Yes free speech is no easy thing. It is the desired outcome until it doesn't work.  And there is the rub; Sometimes it doesn't work.  India's back drop of new agriculture laws will be worked out politically, but politics in a democracy has the same problem.  It's only delivers fair and equitable solutions until it doesn't.  Now put a democracy and free speech together, and you have two ways to screw things up.  Yeah OK, they can also fix things, but with no guarantee.  Free speech and democracy work best when people are responsible and display an innate sense of fairness and compromise, without that, fair and equitable solutions die.

In a way, I'm happy to hear about India if only to make myself feel less alone knowing the US is not the only nation that needs to address this problem.  And it is a problem and it needs to be addressed.  I think it can be solved through compromise, which is anathema to purists.  And there is another problem; purists.

Fortunately, for those who disagree with me, my perspective means nothing, so I should never be a bother to anyone.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on February 13, 2021, 07:48:55 PM
So should we prepare for impeachment #3?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on February 13, 2021, 07:55:11 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on February 13, 2021, 07:48:55 PM
So should we prepare for impeachment #3?

Depends, do you think he did something that reasonably warrants it like the last 2?
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on February 13, 2021, 08:16:51 PM
The next impeachment will happen when Republicans gain the house.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Blackleaf on February 13, 2021, 10:08:36 PM
(https://scontent.fhou1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/150289957_4124025470952620_6072382715279035384_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=3&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=RgBIJCIvR2MAX--jFzg&_nc_ht=scontent.fhou1-1.fna&oh=de5f83445d479c66395531be6e73685e&oe=604CDB8E)

"This impeachment is unconstitutional."

Yeah? According to which part of the Constitution? I don't see any part of it that says the President is immune to consequences when he is close to being replaced. And I know, if the shoe were on the other foot, these shameless hypocrites would be quick to impeach a Democrat President for much less. In fact, I predict they will use this as an excuse to do so at every opportunity. Just watch. These assholes only care about what it good for the party, not what is good for the country. Even Trump sending a dangerous riot their way was not enough to make them turn against him. Trump could literally do no wrong.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Draconic Aiur on February 14, 2021, 04:52:44 AM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on February 13, 2021, 07:48:55 PM
So should we prepare for impeachment #3?

Impeachment? Why not criminal charge?

Also why not charge the whole republican party? If not, then there hoping the party dies horribly.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: SGOS on February 14, 2021, 06:16:17 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on February 13, 2021, 10:08:36 PM
Even Trump sending a dangerous riot their way was not enough to make them turn against him. Trump could literally do no wrong.
Well you see, the mob was well enough organized to only kill Democrats and a handful of the "bad" Republicans.  So any that were worth saving would be spared.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on February 14, 2021, 08:50:42 AM
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on February 14, 2021, 04:52:44 AM
Impeachment? Why not criminal charge?

Also why not charge the whole republican party? If not, then there hoping the party dies horribly.

Charge the whole party?  That's ambitious.  Go for it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: trdsf on February 25, 2021, 12:15:07 AM
Quote from: SGOS on February 13, 2021, 08:52:34 AM
A Republican Senator in Montana sent out a poll one time, and you've seen them too.  On the surface they are asking for your opinion.  How wonderful.  This guy actually gives a shit about my opinion, but then the questions are all choices designed by his pollster, who doesn't have a clue how to ask questions in a poll.  For example:

---------------------------------
Check one:

Do you want to tie up all forest resources so they cannot be used by anyone?
or
Do you support high wages and jobs for everyone?
Yeah, that's called a 'push poll' where they want to pretend they have support for their pre-determined position by wording the questioning in a way to try to force one answer over the other.  I used to get them occasionally in the mail and would send them back only if there was a pre-paid envelope, checking off all the answers they didn't want.  I got a phone call from a Fox pollster in the early '00s that was legitimate enough until they actually "asked" the first question: "(so and so) has a new book out about Hillary and YOU'VE GOT TO HEAR ABOUT IT!"

Me (drawing on my Political Science degree): No I don't.  This isn't a poll, this is you trying to gin up fake support.  I will be letting the *real* news outlets know you're running a push poll so your numbers will mean *nothing* when you release it.

I never heard anything further about any Fox poll about Hillary that year.  I doubt much that my blowing the whistle on their foul derailed it... but it's a nice daydream.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on February 26, 2021, 04:00:07 AM
I've tongue in cheek thought of the GOP as a cult; I didn't think they were REALLY that nutty and more just corrupt, greedy and miserable people, but it always felt right to refer to them as a cult.

I changed my opinion tonight; I no longer sarcastically believe that they are a cult. I genuinely believe they are a cult.

This was for CPAC... they brought in a golden idol of Trump. Like... you don't go through that much effort to get an idol of someone made unless you are way too invested in that person.

https://twitter.com/NumbersMuncher/status/1365145292706832387

"You shall have no other gods before me.
You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
You shall not bow down to them or worship them." - Exodus 20:3-6"
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: GSOgymrat on February 26, 2021, 06:58:08 AM
It looks like it was inspired by a game piece for Monopoly, which Trump would probably appreciate.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Mike Cl on February 26, 2021, 09:31:42 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on February 26, 2021, 06:58:08 AM
It looks like it was inspired by a game piece for Monopoly, which Trump would probably appreciate.
I agree (or 'like') your post!
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Unbeliever on February 26, 2021, 09:46:22 PM
I came, I saw, I concurred!

😋
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on February 26, 2021, 09:50:31 PM
When I said that the GOP had been taken over and become the cult of Trump, I meant every word of it.
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Shiranu on February 27, 2021, 11:53:43 AM
CPAC's stage (same event with the Golden Trump).

They really don't bother hiding it anymore.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvPuBiHXEAIViv5?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Trump Versus Biden
Post by: Hydra009 on February 27, 2021, 05:16:27 PM
At first, I thought it might've been some bizarre coincidence.  But who makes a stage with a hole in the center?!  The whole thing is like a giant fall hazard.  They 100% knew what they were doing.

For anyone wondering, the baseline is more like this:

[spoiler](https://generocity.org/philly/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/06/DNC-2008.jpg)

(https://s.abcnews.com/images/Politics/debate-stage-wide-gty-ps-190912_hpMain_16x9_992.jpg)

(https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/354eb9c/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2048x1329+0+0/resize/840x545!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F91%2F41%2F85e5e796ec885505c141dadfd843%2Fla-1469670166-snap-photo)[/spoiler]