I'm sure we've all rolled our eyeballs up into our heads whenever we've heard at least some apologetics. For me, perhaps the biggest "eye roller" is the "they would have 'produced' the body of the crucified Jesus to disprove the resurrection" argument. In case you're one of the two people who have read or listened to an apologist and have not been acquainted with this argument, it goes something like this: the Jewish religious leaders and/or the Romans were terribly frightened by the emerging Christian sect and wanted to stop it in its tracks. They were especially troubled by the disciples preaching the risen Christ. This belief needed to be stopped at all costs! But how?
According to apologists, if Jesus was still dead in his tomb, why, all the Jewish leaders and/or Romans had to do was go running off to the tomb. They would have broken into the tomb, dragged the rotting corpse out of that grave, and carted it off to downtown Jerusalem. Once there, they would have propped it up for all to see! No doubt everyone who had believed the rumors of Jesus' resurrection would have seen the body and realized their belief just wasn't true. They then would have shrugged their shoulders, mumbled, "oh well," and went back home having given up their faith. The Christian faith in the resurrection has survived, of course, so this scenario never occurred, and it never occurred because Jesus is risen!
I hope I'm not insulting your intelligence, but allow me to point out some weaknesses in this argument. To start, I don't think the Jews and/or Romans were in the business of going out of their way to stop every crazy religious belief people came up with. Even if they did wish to destroy faith in the resurrection, I don't think it's likely they would have "produced" Jesus' body. The Romans, at least, had more effective means to stop anybody whom they saw as a threat--it's called "violence." In addition, I think or at least hope that the Jews and Romans were smart enough to realize that those who believed in the resurrection would be unlikely to be dissuaded by a body that was so badly decomposed that few would have recognized it as the body of Christ!
Anyway, this apologetic is one wacked-out argument. It reminds me of the story of Grinch Who (Tried to Steal) Christmas. At least Dr. Seuss was smart enough to know that stealing Christmas presents, like stealing bodies, won't stop belief.
(https://i0.wp.com/troutmuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/grinch.jpg)
Apologetics ... literary analysis of fiction by fan fiction writers (theologians).
No one could have produced the body of Jesus because he never existed.
Quote from: Baruch on May 21, 2020, 11:42:09 AM
Apologetics ... literary analysis of fiction by fan fiction writers (theologians).
Yes. All the evidence apologists present for Jesus is made up of stories--stories that may or may not be true.
Quote from: Unbeliever on May 21, 2020, 12:01:23 PM
No one could have produced the body of Jesus because he never existed.
Even if he did exist his body may never be found especially if it was buried in a common grave--standard procedure for the Romans when executing criminals.
Have you ever read 'A Skeleton in God's Closet'? It's about an archeologist who finds the skeleton of Jesus, and the ensuing fun.
Quote from: Unbeliever on May 21, 2020, 12:01:23 PM
No one could have produced the body of Jesus because he never existed.
You can find him in every bakery (bread) and every liquor store (wine).
Quote from: Jagella on May 21, 2020, 12:16:41 PM
Even if he did exist his body may never be found especially if it was buried in a common grave--standard procedure for the Romans when executing criminals.
As mentioned by Christian historian, John Dominic Crossan, he pointed out that Gehenna is the public dump in Roman Jerusalem. There was trash burning there all the time (your fire will not be put out) and cadavers were eaten by feral dogs. Maximal non-kosher. The NT puts it more delicately though.
Quote from: Unbeliever on May 21, 2020, 01:10:07 PM
Have you ever read 'A Skeleton in God's Closet'? It's about an archeologist who finds the skeleton of Jesus, and the ensuing fun.
The Ossuary of James scandal, and the "other" tomb of Jesus scandal from the same period. There were lots of people back then, at that location, named Jacob or Yeshua.
If you told me you worked with a carpenter who was actually and completely dead for three days and then came back to life, I wouldn't believe you. I'm less likely to believe this happened 2,000 years ago, that the carpenter built the entire universe, and you know this because you read it in a book.
Quote from: Unbeliever on May 21, 2020, 01:10:07 PM
Have you ever read 'A Skeleton in God's Closet'? It's about an archeologist who finds the skeleton of Jesus, and the ensuing fun.
I'll need to put it on my "wish list."
If somebody did find Jesus' skeleton, I doubt if it would be the end of Christianity. Apologists would dig into the trenches ready to fight the discovery coming up with reasons to deny it. I suppose it would be hard to prove even to honest people that any skeleton belonged to Jesus.
I said as much in the OP.
This guy I worked with specialized in the existence of Jesus. Talked about it all the time. Finally I asked "what is your best piece of evidence? His answer "Jesus came to me in a dream".
This warped thinking reminded me a bit of the Native American's "Ghost Dance", so I told him instead of waiting for boring dreams, I prefer dancing.
They told the people they could dance a new world into being. There would be landslides, earthquakes, and big winds. Hills would pile up on each other. The earth would roll up like a carpet with all the white man's ugly things â€" the stinking new animals, sheep and pigs, the fences, the telegraph poles, the mines and factories. Underneath would be the wonderful old-new world as it had been before the white fat-takers came. ...The white men will be rolled up, disappear, go back to their own continent.
â€" Lame Deer From Wiki Ghost Dance Page
Quote from: Baruch on May 21, 2020, 02:07:53 PM
As mentioned by Christian historian, John Dominic Crossan, he pointed out that Gehenna is the public dump in Roman Jerusalem. There was trash burning there all the time (your fire will not be put out) and cadavers were eaten by feral dogs. Maximal non-kosher. The NT puts it more delicately though.
William Lane Craig argues that the story of Jesus being placed in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea is likely true because Christians would not make up a story that makes a member of the Sanhedrin look like a nice guy. It seems to me that it is unlikely that a member of the Sanhedrin would offer his tomb for Jesus to be buried in, but Craig doesn't seem to understand that.
In any event, I think the story of Jesus' burial in Joseph's tomb is not likely to be historical, and like Crossan says it is more probable that Jesus ended up dogfood if he ever even existed and was crucified.
I can't remember where it was that I read a detailed description of the Ghost Dance. The Native Americans were being wiped out, and they had neither the numbers or the technology to do anything about it. In desperation, they turned to the supernatural and decided they could dance their way to invulnerability. The white man's bullets would pass right through them as if they had immaterial bodies, and they would prevail. I don't know who cooked up the idea of the Ghost Dance. It may have been a well intended medicine man who just wanted to give his brothers one last experience of hope. I don't know if he believed it or not. It didn't make any difference if it was true. The Indians were going to die whether they danced or just offered themselves up to be shot. I imagine their dying thoughts would have been, "This Ghost Dance thing was supposed to work." But I would guess that some with a more healthy skepticism would be saying, "Yeah, I thought this thing was probably bullshit."
Christians deal with their own mortality by denying it; "The body rots, but I live on, maybe with a new Mormon body on a different planet, or as some Startrek energy based life form that floats around the universe." When it comes to head games, modern man isn't much more advanced than Native Americans were with one foot still in the stone age.
Quote from: Jagella on May 21, 2020, 05:50:45 PM
I'll need to put it on my "wish list."
If somebody did find Jesus' skeleton, I doubt if it would be the end of Christianity. Apologists would dig into the trenches ready to fight the discovery coming up with reasons to deny it. I suppose it would be hard to prove even to honest people that any skeleton belonged to Jesus.
I said as much in the OP.
You are so right about it would not end christianity. It will not die. Take the example of the Millerites of the 1848 or so; their leader predicted, twice, that the world would end on a particular day (in October, I think)--most members sold or gave away all of their possessions and met on a mountain to await the end. It never came; the leader said he made a math error, the end will come the next October. The same process--the end never came. One would think that would be that for that movement. Not so; a good portion reformed in a new movement now called the 7th Day Adventists. The death of christianity will be long, long and slow long, and it will just peter out.............It is not a movement that needs facts to keep it alive--it just needs beliefs to live and those don't die by facts.
Quote from: Jagella on May 21, 2020, 05:50:45 PM
I'll need to put it on my "wish list."
If somebody did find Jesus' skeleton, I doubt if it would be the end of Christianity. Apologists would dig into the trenches ready to fight the discovery coming up with reasons to deny it. I suppose it would be hard to prove even to honest people that any skeleton belonged to Jesus.
I said as much in the OP.
Decades ago, a bishop confirmed this. His notion of Jesus is metaphysical.
Quote from: Cassia on May 21, 2020, 05:52:55 PM
This guy I worked with specialized in the existence of Jesus. Talked about it all the time. Finally I asked "what is your best piece of evidence? His answer "Jesus came to me in a dream".
This warped thinking reminded me a bit of the Native American's "Ghost Dance", so I told him instead of waiting for boring dreams, I prefer dancing.
They told the people they could dance a new world into being. There would be landslides, earthquakes, and big winds. Hills would pile up on each other. The earth would roll up like a carpet with all the white man's ugly things â€" the stinking new animals, sheep and pigs, the fences, the telegraph poles, the mines and factories. Underneath would be the wonderful old-new world as it had been before the white fat-takers came. ...The white men will be rolled up, disappear, go back to their own continent.
â€" Lame Deer From Wiki Ghost Dance Page
I have unusual dreams too. Even met Jesus once. But I don't go around preaching that.
Quote from: SGOS on May 21, 2020, 06:26:12 PM
I can't remember where it was that I read a detailed description of the Ghost Dance. The Native Americans were being wiped out, and they had neither the numbers or the technology to do anything about it. In desperation, they turned to the supernatural and decided they could dance their way to invulnerability. The white man's bullets would pass right through them as if they had immaterial bodies, and they would prevail. I don't know who cooked up the idea of the Ghost Dance. It may have been a well intended medicine man who just wanted to give his brothers one last experience of hope. I don't know if he believed it or not. It didn't make any difference if it was true. The Indians were going to die whether they danced or just offered themselves up to be shot. I imagine their dying thoughts would have been, "This Ghost Dance thing was supposed to work." But I would guess that some with a more healthy skepticism would be saying, "Yeah, I thought this thing was probably bullshit."
Christians deal with their own mortality by denying it; "The body rots, but I live on, maybe with a new Mormon body on a different planet, or as some Startrek energy based life form that floats around the universe." When it comes to head games, modern man isn't much more advanced than Native Americans were with one foot still in the stone age.
Natives didn't come to the Ghost Dance as atheists, they were pagan believers already. My Lakota friend still does.
Yea, the European followers of Christ and their offspring killed off about 130 million Americans, mostly with their disease and proceeded to enslave Africans in the Americas... all in a fabricated pretext to save their savage souls.
I heard some whining on YT but it was just William Lane Craigslist apologizing...something stupid about god and morality, LOL. What a joke.
Quote from: Cassia on May 22, 2020, 12:05:13 AM
Yea, the European followers of Christ and their offspring killed off about 130 million Americans, mostly with their disease and proceeded to enslave Africans in the Americas... all in a fabricated pretext to save their savage souls.
I heard some whining on YT but it was just William Lane Craigslist apologizing...something stupid about god and morality, LOL. What a joke.
Once way back, during some controversy about making reparations to Native Americans, a friend told me that his father said, "We never stole land from any Indians. We won it from them fair and square in battle."
Quote from: Cassia on May 22, 2020, 12:05:13 AM
Yea, the European followers of Christ and their offspring killed off about 130 million Americans, mostly with their disease and proceeded to enslave Africans in the Americas... all in a fabricated pretext to save their savage souls.
I heard some whining on YT but it was just William Lane Craigslist apologizing...something stupid about god and morality, LOL. What a joke.
Would it have been better for Africans if only other Africans and the Arabs enslaved them? Native Americans were busy killing each other. Why is it wrong for Europeans to be violent? Do you prefer Aztec conquest of Europe?
Of course, Christian morality is hypocritical. All morality and ethics is. It is virtue signaling by predators distracting their prey. Camouflage. Even vegetarians are predators on plant life. Do you prefer race-free slavery for debt and POW as was the norm in all societies for millennia?
Navajos originally were Apaches, but they stole some sheep from Spanish colonizers, that they didn't eat. That technical borrowing separated them from the Apaches. Of course Apaches continued to predate on anyone they could predate on (hunter gatherers predate on humans too). And Navajos became violently competitive with the Hopis and Pueblos because of competition for grazing in a desert climate.
Quote from: SGOS on May 22, 2020, 08:45:13 AM
Once way back, during some controversy about making reparations to Native Americans, a friend told me that his father said, "We never stole land from any Indians. We won it from them fair and square in battle."
And China will conquer the US, fair and square too. Humans are violent monkeys.
Would it have been better for Africans if only other Africans and the Arabs enslaved them?
Yes, much much much better. There is a theist for you. Brain all fuzzy with lofty idealism. Atheists understand vey well that primates (sorry Ken 'ride a T-Rex' Ham) are violent, thankyou. However modern secular humanists don't get to ditch our responsibility onto a scapegoat by getting on our knees and proverbially blowing some greasy preacher or guy wearing a robe. God's representatives. Lets hear a moral defense for vicarious redemption? _______________________________.
Quote from: Cassia on May 22, 2020, 09:41:45 AM
Would it have been better for Africans if only other Africans and the Arabs enslaved them?
Yes, much much much better. There is a theist for you. Brain all fuzzy with lofty idealism. Atheists understand vey well that primates (sorry Ken 'ride a T-Rex' Ham) are violent, thankyou. However modern secular humanists don't get to ditch our responsibility onto a scapegoat by getting on our knees and proverbially blowing some greasy preacher or guy wearing a robe. God's representatives. Lets hear a moral defense for vicarious redemption? _______________________________.
Well, prejudice is OK. Given no morality, no ethics. Do I support fake preachers? Nope. So you support Black slavery of Blacks? Most Africans who came to the US were sold to our slavers by other Blacks. Most of those being POW from Black-on-Black tribal warfare. So you give non-Europeans a break, because they weren't civilized?
There was the Maji Maji revolt in Africa, when the natives rebelled against the German colonialists, after being told by a spiritual advisor that the German bullets would turn into water. They didn't.
Quote from: Unbeliever on May 22, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
There was the Maji Maji revolt in Africa, when the natives rebelled against the German colonialists, after being told by a spiritual advisor that the German bullets would turn into water. They didn't.
Ghost Dancing anyone??
Quote from: Cassia on May 21, 2020, 05:52:55 PM
This guy I worked with specialized in the existence of Jesus. Talked about it all the time. Finally I asked "what is your best piece of evidence? His answer "Jesus came to me in a dream".
This warped thinking reminded me a bit of the Native American's "Ghost Dance", so I told him instead of waiting for boring dreams, I prefer dancing.
They told the people they could dance a new world into being. There would be landslides, earthquakes, and big winds. Hills would pile up on each other. The earth would roll up like a carpet with all the white man's ugly things â€" the stinking new animals, sheep and pigs, the fences, the telegraph poles, the mines and factories. Underneath would be the wonderful old-new world as it had been before the white fat-takers came. ...The white men will be rolled up, disappear, go back to their own continent.
â€" Lame Deer From Wiki Ghost Dance Page
Your fellow worker is not alone in his "knowing" that Jesus existed based on what he thinks he saw. Nowadays scholars will with a straight face tell us that Jesus existed because Paul of Tarsus said so. And what was the basis for Paul's knowledge of Christ? He had dreams and visions of Jesus! I wonder why Paul didn't ask James about Jesus. After all, Bart Ehrman and other real-Jesus apologists assure us that James was the brother of Jesus. As such, James would have been a great source of information about Jesus.
Speaking of Paul, who the heck was he? All we know is that he wrote some epistles. His story in Acts contradicts what he said in Galatians 1-2 and is unlikely to be historical.
See how wacky apologetics can get?
Quote from: Baruch on May 22, 2020, 11:47:18 AM
Well, prejudice is OK. Given no morality, no ethics. Do I support fake preachers? Nope. So you support Black slavery of Blacks? Most Africans who came to the US were sold to our slavers by other Blacks. Most of those being POW from Black-on-Black tribal warfare. So you give non-Europeans a break, because they weren't civilized?
Would I have preferred if the only slave holders were limited to inter-African trade? Damm right. Africans never came close to the large scale industrialized European slave trade that led to the American Civil War? Dealing in absolutes is for children and theists. Similar brain function, prone to incorrect assumptions and magic thinking.
Quote from: Unbeliever on May 22, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
There was the Maji Maji revolt in Africa, when the natives rebelled against the German colonialists, after being told by a spiritual advisor that the German bullets would turn into water. They didn't.
Memes are amazing. Twitter is full of them. Dems think that Trump Twitter posts will bounce right off of them ;-)
Quote from: Cassia on May 22, 2020, 01:29:15 PM
Would I have preferred if the only slave holders were limited to inter-African trade? Damm right. Africans never came close to the large scale industrialized European slave trade that led to the American Civil War? Dealing in absolutes is for children and theists. Similar brain function, prone to incorrect assumptions and magic thinking.
So, Americans are to be pacifist Jains who won't kill an insect? You could avoid ail evil, by simply preventing humans in the first place. As a misanthrope, I prefer the Thanos way, only timed in the past. A perfect world (of animals still eating animals) is if there are no humans at all. Seriously?
And yes, it seems you ideologically privilege non-European aka primitive cultures. They aren't evil, they can't help themselves. But we can? That is White of you ;-)
As a person however, I would probably not go around enslaving people, any more than you would.
Quote from: Baruch on May 21, 2020, 08:06:05 PM
I have unusual dreams too. Even met Jesus once. But I don't go around preaching that.
Apologists say that the disciples preached Jesus so fervently because they saw him risen from the grave. I probably would not act like that. If I saw somebody risen from the dead and only had my word, then I wouldn't expect anybody to believe me. Why should they? They'd probably think I was lying or crazy, and I could not disagree with them.
I think the craziest argument has to be that their religion's claims are true because their early leaders "wouldn't lie". Oh really?
It's especially egregious when you realize that's what they claim about the other religious people - if not lying, then mistaken. But somehow, it's not possible for their own leaders to be mistaken.
Everyone's infallible and everyone else is fallible. It paints a very strange picture.
Quote from: Hydra009 on May 22, 2020, 10:16:28 PM
I think the craziest argument has to be that their religion's claims are true because their early leaders "wouldn't lie". Oh really?
A major effort on the part of Christian apologists is to convince skeptics that "the disciples" could not have lied. They argue that the disciples could not have died for what they knew to be false. Apologists don't seem to realize that people don't always have a choice when they are killed. If the martyred disciples did die for their beliefs when they could have lived, then they were very foolish to do so. I don't generally find the word of fools to be very convincing.
QuoteIt's especially egregious when you realize that's what they claim about the other religious people - if not lying, then mistaken. But somehow, it's not possible for their own leaders to be mistaken.
Apologists start out arguing that the early Christians had certain qualities that made their testimony believable. When you cite figures from other religions that had the same qualities, apologists then move the goalposts hoping that you cannot cite a figure with the same qualities. Consider Joseph Smith, for example. He was a martyr of sorts and had eyewitnesses to back up his testimony. If you point out these facts to apologists, they will quickly abandon their arguments that martyrs with eyewitnesses are to be trusted, and find some faults with Smith's death and/or his eyewitnesses.
QuoteEveryone's infallible and everyone else is fallible. It paints a very strange picture.
It's special pleading to the max!
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/carolinajournal.com/app/uploads/2016/01/29082456/screen_52bc6e6c4f4a3.gif)
Quote from: Jagella on May 22, 2020, 10:08:11 PM
Apologists say that the disciples preached Jesus so fervently because they saw him risen from the grave. I probably would not act like that. If I saw somebody risen from the dead and only had my word, then I wouldn't expect anybody to believe me. Why should they? They'd probably think I was lying or crazy, and I could not disagree with them.
Women saw Jesus rise first ... then men didn't believe them. #Believe All Women ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on May 23, 2020, 01:08:41 PM
Women saw Jesus rise first ... then men didn't believe them. #Believe All Women ;-)
Apologists claim that the story of the women discovering the empty tomb is likely to be historical because among the Jews women were not considered to be reliable witnesses, and therefore the disciples would not have made up the story. I'm wondering how the women were eyewitnesses because we don't have their testimony. The women in question only appear in the story. Besides, the story goes on to say that the disciples confirmed the empty tomb, and so nobody needs the women's testimony (assuming the story is true).
Anyway, if I make up a story I wonder if anybody will use my story as evidence that the story is true.
Quote from: Jagella on May 23, 2020, 10:33:39 PM
Apologists claim that the story of the women discovering the empty tomb is likely to be historical because among the Jews women were not considered to be reliable witnesses, and therefore the disciples would not have made up the story. I'm wondering how the women were eyewitnesses because we don't have their testimony. The women in question only appear in the story. Besides, the story goes on to say that the disciples confirmed the empty tomb, and so nobody needs the women's testimony (assuming the story is true).
Anyway, if I make up a story I wonder if anybody will use my story as evidence that the story is true.
The gyrations of apologetics are funny, are they not?
Quote from: Baruch on May 24, 2020, 12:51:27 AM
The gyrations of apologetics are funny, are they not?
I don't know if I would describe apologetics as funny. I've worked as an educator, and I realize the importance of people knowing what's going on in the world. We misinform people at our peril. If we are to survive pandemics like the current Covid 19 crisis, then we need to have informed people thinking logically to survive them. Can you imagine relying on creationists to find solutions to disease outbreaks? We would be in dire straits!
It is no laughing matter.
Quote from: Jagella on May 23, 2020, 10:33:39 PM
Apologists claim that the story of the women discovering the empty tomb is likely to be historical because among the Jews women were not considered to be reliable witnesses, and therefore the disciples would not have made up the story. I'm wondering how the women were eyewitnesses because we don't have their testimony. The women in question only appear in the story. Besides, the story goes on to say that the disciples confirmed the empty tomb, and so nobody needs the women's testimony (assuming the story is true).
Anyway, if I make up a story I wonder if anybody will use my story as evidence that the story is true.
But Jews didn't write the Gospels, so their culture isn't evenrelevent.
Quote from: Unbeliever on May 24, 2020, 12:49:59 PM
But Jews didn't write the Gospels, so their culture isn't evenrelevent.
What makes you say that Jews didn't write the Gospels?
In any case, you might be right. We don't know who wrote the Gospels, but whoever they were, they didn't write the Gospels in Hebrew but in Greek. They also differed markedly in their theology compared to the Jewish scriptures. God was split into three and created a heaven and a hell--beliefs that don't appear in the Hebrew Bible.
Well, I should probably not have stated that as a declarative, but my opinion, since I no longer have access to the texts I'd need to back it up. It boils down to all the geographical and cultural errors in the gospels, that a Jew would likely not have made.
Quote from: Jagella on May 24, 2020, 11:47:54 AM
I don't know if I would describe apologetics as funny. I've worked as an educator, and I realize the importance of people knowing what's going on in the world. We misinform people at our peril. If we are to survive pandemics like the current Covid 19 crisis, then we need to have informed people thinking logically to survive them. Can you imagine relying on creationists to find solutions to disease outbreaks? We would be in dire straits!
It is no laughing matter.
You have no sense of humor right now ;-( There are no truths, just government lies! (see Pontius Pilate) Yes, a dystopia will happen tomorrow morning, the irreligious have prophetic powers ;-) Unfortunately, the world is more likely to fall back into the Middle Age or the Stone Age because of civilization collapse, not because Twitter doesn't censor sufficiently. And college educated people are just young Maxists now ... I wouldn't put them in charge of a bad flu.
Quote from: Unbeliever on May 24, 2020, 10:10:26 PM
Well, I should probably not have stated that as a declarative, but my opinion, since I no longer have access to the texts I'd need to back it up. It boils down to all the geographical and cultural errors in the gospels, that a Jew would likely not have made.
There were 23 different kinds of Jews in the 1st century CE, per Josephus. It is convenient to agree with the eventual majority Jewish opinion, since it is anti-Messianic, and anti-Christian. If we simply agree with anyone who is anti-Christian, why not convert to Islam?
I tend to agree that Paul wasn't an Orthodox rabbi, because those didn't exist until about 150 years later. Hellenistic Jews wrote the Gospels, as religious fiction. After the fall of Jerusalem in 70 CE. They were among the losing 23 kinds of Jews. There still are, a few Jews who are not Orthodox ;-) Most of them are secular, irreligious posers. And then there are the Karaites and the Samaritans.
Quote from: Unbeliever on May 24, 2020, 12:49:59 PM
But Jews didn't write the Gospels, so their culture isn't evenrelevent.
As the High Priest of Israel, you are qualified ;-) Jesus of San Fran.
Quote from: Jagella on May 21, 2020, 06:02:12 PM
William Lane Craig argues that the story of Jesus being placed in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea is likely true because Christians would not make up a story that makes a member of the Sanhedrin look like a nice guy. It seems to me that it is unlikely that a member of the Sanhedrin would offer his tomb for Jesus to be buried in, but Craig doesn't seem to understand that.
Yes, and because it's really unlikely that there's a special train to Hogwarts that you can access by walking through a brick wall, that means it's more likely there must be one. Good grief...