Atheistforums.com

So far I can say I really like this forum. Not only do I get a lot of sensible feedback from the other members, but the mods do not interfere with the discussions here. I recently left another forum because of such interference. If I'm invited into a discussion board, I want to freely discuss the issues. I'm glad that so far at least I'm free to speak my mind.

To make this forum even better, I'd like to see more religious members who can argue for their faith. I really enjoy debating Christians.

Ask them why THEIR version of Christianity is the right one.

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 13, 2020, 01:07:50 PM
Ask them why THEIR version of Christianity is the right one.

Well, if some Christians were here, that would be a good question to ask them.

Anyway, one possible reason for the lack of Christians here might be that they fear that their arguments can never endure under the scrutiny of atheists. Most of the Christian forums impose a playing field that is slanted against unbelievers. That way they hope to ensure that their beliefs hold up.

We get Christians once in a while, and sometimes a Muslim will come here to make assertions about their religion, but that's all they can ever do is assert, and expect us to believe them. They have no arguments, but they often believe that they do, so they come here to try them out on us. They don't usually stay for long.

well we got a JW now......have fun.

Quote from: Unbeliever on March 13, 2020, 01:29:35 PM
We get Christians once in a while, and sometimes a Muslim will come here to make assertions about their religion, but that's all they can ever do is assert, and expect us to believe them. They have no arguments, but they often believe that they do, so they come here to try them out on us. They don't usually stay for long.

I've seen much of what you're describing hundreds of times. The religious have their arguments that for them, serve to convince or at least alleviate the doubts for a while. Such arguments almost always are woefully inadequate if scrutinized under critical thinking. Once the religious person realizes that her or his position is hopeless, she or he will beat a hasty retreat taking care not to concede defeat and hoping nobody notices. The skeptic will often be derided as "angry" or "bitter" for no other reason than for refuting the religious person's apologetic.

So apologetics is only effective if people already want to believe it. In an open forum like this one, apologetics arguments are quickly shredded.

Quote from: aitm on March 13, 2020, 05:03:07 PM
well we got a JW now......have fun.

Let me at 'em!

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0432/1981/products/Screen_Shot_2015-03-03_at_10.22.20_AM.png)

Quote from: Jagella on March 13, 2020, 12:34:30 PM
So far I can say I really like this forum. Not only do I get a lot of sensible feedback from the other members, but the mods do not interfere with the discussions here. I recently left another forum because of such interference. If I'm invited into a discussion board, I want to freely discuss the issues. I'm glad that so far at least I'm free to speak my mind.

To make this forum even better, I'd like to see more religious members who can argue for their faith. I really enjoy debating Christians.

I thank you Jagella,
But I wanna be honest with you, and with your mates: I don't want only you listen to me, I want also, in a very short time,  you will help me to advice, to alert, as many people as it is possible. As I'm sure we are in danger, and we have really a few time be left.

That's why I am so assertive and, sometimes, rude. Because I'm sure the present situation, this Pandemic nobody is really able to stop, nowhere, it is just the Beginning of the End. In other words, we will see soon these disasters, and in this order:

Attention: mystic content
[spoiler]
1 And Jesus being come out of the temple, went away. And his disciples came to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And he answering, said to them: Do you see all these things? Amen I say to you, there shall not be left here a stone upon a stone that shall not be destroyed.
3 And when he was sitting on mount Olivet, the disciples came to him privately, saying: Tell us when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming and of the consummation of the world?
4 And Jesus answering, said to them: Take heed that no man seduce you.
5 For many will come in my name saying, I am Christ. And they will seduce many.
6 And you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled. For these things must come to pass: but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: And there shall be pestilences and famines and earthquakes in places.
8 Now all these are the beginnings of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted and shall put you to death: and you shall be hated by all nations for my name’s sake.
10 And then shall many be scandalized and shall betray one another and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise and shall seduce many.
12 And because iniquity hath abounded, the charity of many shall grow cold.
13 But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world, for a testimony to all nations: and then shall the consummation come.
15 When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: he that readeth let him understand.
16 Then they that are in Judea, let them flee to the mountains:
17 And he that is on the housetop, let him not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 And he that is in the field, let him not go back to take his coat.
19 And woe to them that are with child and that give suck in those days.
20 But pray that your flight be not in the winter or on the sabbath.
21 For there shall be then great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, neither shall be.
22 And unless those days had been shortened, no flesh should be saved: but for the sake of the elect those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say to you, Lo here is Christ, or there: do not believe him.
24 For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect.
25 Behold I have told it to you, beforehand.
26 If therefore they shall say to you, Behold he is in the desert: go ye not out. Behold he is in the closets: believe it not.
27 For as lightning cometh out of the east and appeareth even into the west: so shall also the cowling of the Son of man be.
28 Wheresoever the body shall be, there shall the eagles also be gathered together.
29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light and the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers of heaven shall be moved.
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven. And then shall all tribes of the earth mourn: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with much power and majesty.
31 And he shall send his angels with a trumpet and a great voice: and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the farthest parts of the heavens to the utmost bounds of them.
32 And from the fig tree learn a parable: When the branch thereof is now tender and the leaves come forth, you know that summer is nigh.
33 So you also, when you shall see all these things, know ye that it is nigh, even at the doors.
34 Amen I say to you that this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass: but my words shall not pass.
36 But of that day and hour no one knoweth: no, not the angels of heaven, but the Father alone.
37 And as in the days of Noe, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For, as in the days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, even till that day in which Noe entered into the ark:
39 And they knew not till the flood came and took them all away: so also shall the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then two shall be in the field. One shall be taken and one shall be left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill. One shall be taken and one shall be left.
42 Watch ye therefore, because you know not what hour your Lord will come.
43 But this know ye, that, if the goodman of the house knew at what hour the thief would come, he would certainly watch and would not suffer his house to be broken open.
44 Wherefore be you also ready, because at what hour you know not the Son of man will come
[/spoiler]


(https://www.animated-smileys.com/emoticons/animated-smileys-simpsons-062.gif)

Quote from: Holubice on April 12, 2020, 08:37:19 PM
I don't want only you listen to me, I want also, in a very short time,  you will help me to advice, to alert, as many people as it is possible.

You want to give advice, but you don't want to take advice.  This is a big problem with religious fundamentalists.  They don't want to learn. They just want others to believe what they do, no matter how stupid those beliefs are.

Quote from: Holubice on April 12, 2020, 08:37:19 PM
As I'm sure we are in danger, and we have really a few time be left.

We know we are in danger.  We know our president has screwed the pooch on this one.  You should write a letter to him, but saddly, he doesn't listen any better than you do.

Quote from: Holubice on April 12, 2020, 08:37:19 PM
That's why I am so assertive and, sometimes, rude. Because I'm sure the present situation,

Yes, the present situation is bad.  This is the worst pandemic I have lived through.  I was born in 1943.  What we have observed so far is that we can take actual action to reduce casualties given competent leadership.  Humans can take steps to bring society through this with the least amount of suffering given competent leadership, which I agree is missing.  You can pray to God, that's fine, but if you can't do something to actually help, get out of the way.


Being sure is not the same thing as being right. 

Quote from: Holubice on April 12, 2020, 08:37:19 PM
I thank you Jagella,
But I wanna be honest with you, and with your mates: I don't want only you listen to me, I want also, in a very short time,  you will help me to advice, to alert, as many people as it is possible. As I'm sure we are in danger, and we have really a few time be left.

That's why I am so assertive and, sometimes, rude. Because I'm sure the present situation, this Pandemic nobody is really able to stop, nowhere, it is just the Beginning of the End. In other words, we will see soon these disasters, and in this order:

Attention: mystic content
[spoiler]
1 And Jesus being come out of the temple, went away. And his disciples came to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And he answering, said to them: Do you see all these things? Amen I say to you, there shall not be left here a stone upon a stone that shall not be destroyed.
3 And when he was sitting on mount Olivet, the disciples came to him privately, saying: Tell us when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming and of the consummation of the world?
4 And Jesus answering, said to them: Take heed that no man seduce you.
5 For many will come in my name saying, I am Christ. And they will seduce many.
6 And you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled. For these things must come to pass: but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: And there shall be pestilences and famines and earthquakes in places.
8 Now all these are the beginnings of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted and shall put you to death: and you shall be hated by all nations for my name’s sake.
10 And then shall many be scandalized and shall betray one another and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise and shall seduce many.
12 And because iniquity hath abounded, the charity of many shall grow cold.
13 But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world, for a testimony to all nations: and then shall the consummation come.
15 When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: he that readeth let him understand.
16 Then they that are in Judea, let them flee to the mountains:
17 And he that is on the housetop, let him not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 And he that is in the field, let him not go back to take his coat.
19 And woe to them that are with child and that give suck in those days.
20 But pray that your flight be not in the winter or on the sabbath.
21 For there shall be then great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, neither shall be.
22 And unless those days had been shortened, no flesh should be saved: but for the sake of the elect those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say to you, Lo here is Christ, or there: do not believe him.
24 For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect.
25 Behold I have told it to you, beforehand.
26 If therefore they shall say to you, Behold he is in the desert: go ye not out. Behold he is in the closets: believe it not.
27 For as lightning cometh out of the east and appeareth even into the west: so shall also the cowling of the Son of man be.
28 Wheresoever the body shall be, there shall the eagles also be gathered together.
29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light and the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers of heaven shall be moved.
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven. And then shall all tribes of the earth mourn: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with much power and majesty.
31 And he shall send his angels with a trumpet and a great voice: and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the farthest parts of the heavens to the utmost bounds of them.
32 And from the fig tree learn a parable: When the branch thereof is now tender and the leaves come forth, you know that summer is nigh.
33 So you also, when you shall see all these things, know ye that it is nigh, even at the doors.
34 Amen I say to you that this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass: but my words shall not pass.
36 But of that day and hour no one knoweth: no, not the angels of heaven, but the Father alone.
37 And as in the days of Noe, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For, as in the days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, even till that day in which Noe entered into the ark:
39 And they knew not till the flood came and took them all away: so also shall the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then two shall be in the field. One shall be taken and one shall be left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill. One shall be taken and one shall be left.
42 Watch ye therefore, because you know not what hour your Lord will come.
43 But this know ye, that, if the goodman of the house knew at what hour the thief would come, he would certainly watch and would not suffer his house to be broken open.
44 Wherefore be you also ready, because at what hour you know not the Son of man will come
[/spoiler]


(https://www.animated-smileys.com/emoticons/animated-smileys-simpsons-062.gif)

The Covid-19 pandemic won't kill us all, seeing as its mortality rate is around 2%-3%. Were you around 102 years ago, you would've said the same thing about the Spanish flu pandemic.

Quote from: Sal1981 on April 13, 2020, 11:11:22 AM
The Covid-19 pandemic won't kill us all, seeing as its mortality rate is around 2%-3%. Were you around 102 years ago, you would've said the same thing about the Spanish flu pandemic.

Correct ... the commie-demic killed more people, eventually.

Quote from: Holubice on April 12, 2020, 08:37:19 PM
I thank you Jagella,
But I wanna be honest with you, and with your mates: I don't want only you listen to me, I want also, in a very short time,  you will help me to advice, to alert, as many people as it is possible. As I'm sure we are in danger, and we have really a few time be left.

That's why I am so assertive and, sometimes, rude. Because I'm sure the present situation, this Pandemic nobody is really able to stop, nowhere, it is just the Beginning of the End. In other words, we will see soon these disasters, and in this order...

Jesus is always coming but never arriving. How long have you believed "the end is nigh"? I've been hearing about it for fifty years or more.

Quote from: Jagella on April 16, 2020, 08:26:55 PM
Jesus is always coming but never arriving. How long have you believed "the end is nigh"? I've been hearing about it for fifty years or more.

It is an attitude of course, not a timeline.  Maximal pessimism.  Of course for individuals, the end can only be a day away.

Quote from: Baruch on April 16, 2020, 10:25:11 PM
It is an attitude of course, not a timeline.  Maximal pessimism.  Of course for individuals, the end can only be a day away.

Many people don't seem to mind that the end, according to Christian beliefs, involves world-wide destruction and death. I must wonder if some people actually look forward to the apocalypse.

Quote from: Jagella on April 17, 2020, 01:48:07 PM
Many people don't seem to mind that the end, according to Christian beliefs, involves world-wide destruction and death. I must wonder if some people actually look forward to the apocalypse.

Yes, mentally ill people look forward to a secular/religious apocalypse.  Just as some look forward to their own demise.  Murder is externalized suicide.  Wish for apocalypse is magnified self despair.

Some people die suddenly or quickly, and don't go thru the usual psychological phases ... denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.  It took a long while for my mother's health to fail, she went thru all of these.

Quote from: Jagella on April 17, 2020, 01:48:07 PM
Many people don't seem to mind that the end, according to Christian beliefs, involves world-wide destruction and death. I must wonder if some people actually look forward to the apocalypse.

Of course they do!  Remember those series of novels that were based upon that fiction?  Sold millions.  Probably selling more right now!

Quote from: Mike Cl on April 17, 2020, 06:11:16 PM
Of course they do!  Remember those series of novels that were based upon that fiction?  Sold millions.  Probably selling more right now!

My Ex met one of those authors, at a book sellers conference.  So two degrees of separation for me.

Yes, it has been a good ride.  +40K posts in 5 years!  Nearly 4K likes.  I have accomplished what I set out to do (listen and share where we overlap), in a 5 year effort.  I am retired.  Y'all take care now ;-)

Quote from: Jagella on April 17, 2020, 01:48:07 PMMany people don't seem to mind that the end, according to Christian beliefs, involves world-wide destruction and death. I must wonder if some people actually look forward to the apocalypse.

There is a sort of morbid fascination in destruction.  Also, it places one in a rather special circumstance - the last generation to ever walk the Earth.  And finally, there is the melting away of other concerns - tedium, toil, drudgery, purposelessness, etc - life and death in stark relief.  I'm sure it's very exciting for someone who has not lived well to die so spectacularly.

Quote from: Mike Cl on April 17, 2020, 06:11:16 PM
Of course they do!  Remember those series of novels that were based upon that fiction?  Sold millions.  Probably selling more right now!

I think some of them made it to the big screen.  That was before anyone knew that shitty ham fisted Christian movies would become a genre.  I rented one thinking it was going to be science fiction.  It ended up with smiling Christians gathering in a church as the meteorite showers started raining down.  And then a guy who doubted at the beginning of the movie suddenly got in his pickup and started speeding down the highway through the pelting meteorites and locust swarms and got back to the church where his brother happily welcomed him back to the church for their last night together.  End of movie.  They never got to the starvation, rat epidemics, and plagues.  It was all strawberries and cream.  We are saved! 

Quote from: SGOS on June 12, 2020, 05:08:39 AM
I think some of them made it to the big screen.  That was before anyone knew that shitty ham fisted Christian movies would become a genre.  I rented one thinking it was going to be science fiction.  It ended up with smiling Christians gathering in a church as the meteorite showers started raining down.  And then a guy who doubted at the beginning of the movie suddenly got in his pickup and started speeding down the highway through the pelting meteorites and locust swarms and got back to the church where his brother happily welcomed him back to the church for their last night together.  End of movie.  They never got to the starvation, rat epidemics, and plagues.  It was all strawberries and cream.  We are saved!

I went into the viewing of Signs (2002) thinking it was a straight science fiction type movie.  At the end we find god did it.  Made me want to puke and I've not liked Mel Gibson since.

Quote from: Mike Cl on June 12, 2020, 09:13:05 AM
I went into the viewing of Signs (2002) thinking it was a straight science fiction type movie.  At the end we find god did it.  Made me want to puke and I've not liked Mel Gibson since.

That sounds familiar, but I can't remember anything about it.  Did Nicolas Cage do something like that too?  That may have been "Knowing," or something sounding like that.

Quote from: SGOS on June 12, 2020, 11:14:05 AM
That sounds familiar, but I can't remember anything about it.  Did Nicolas Cage do something like that too?  That may have been "Knowing," or something sounding like that.

I think he did but I can't remember the name of it.  He is in quite a few of, uh, weird (don't know what else to call them) movies.  I do like his acting for the most part (but I don't think I'd like him as a friend), but some of his C- movies are a bit much.