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Humanities Section => Philosophy & Rhetoric General Discussion => Topic started by: Baruch on March 11, 2020, 12:30:46 AM

Title: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Baruch on March 11, 2020, 12:30:46 AM
Sociology was originally a late 19th century political movement in academia, that was trying to make Marxism respectable.  It was mostly successful in this brainwashing because once something becomes status-quo in academia, it is like Aristotelianism in the Catholic universities.  Activism based on academic sociology became the socialism we all know and love.  The respectability aspect being, that unlike Marxism, Socialism isn't bloody in tooth and claw (as per French or Russian revolution).  Here is an analysis of 3 different generational views of bourgeois society ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n2Bnnw-c6U
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Draconic Aiur on March 11, 2020, 12:45:18 AM
I can argue that socialism was present before Marx even opened his mouth.

Also not all Boomers and Gen X are massively afraid of Socialism.
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Gregory on March 11, 2020, 02:17:52 AM
Darkness imprisoning me
All that I see
Absolute horror
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Gregory on March 11, 2020, 02:19:02 AM
There is no other word for crap than crap.
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Baruch on March 11, 2020, 08:54:45 AM
I can argue that socialism was present before Marx even opened his mouth.

Also not all Boomers and Gen X are massively afraid of Socialism.

No analysis is valid, because it generalizes across large numbers of people?  So abandon politics then?

Native Americans are socialist.  Is that you, Elizabeth? ;-)  Rousseau is the greatest!
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Baruch on March 11, 2020, 08:55:22 AM
There is no other word for crap than crap.

Let all your feeling out, man!

So which American asshole generation is more shitty?

Boomer, X-Gen or Millennial?  Sometimes I am more like a Boomer, sometimes more like X-Gen, but the latter may be more an age thing (cynicism).  I grew out of Marxist analysis over 40 years ago.
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Baruch on March 15, 2020, 09:05:42 PM
More ongoing analysis of the false narrative called post-WW II ideology.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24FThxQYCXI

The Millennials are an upside down version of the Christian imperialism of 100 years ago.  Race is real, but the only point of race is to uniquely destroy White people ... because all non-White (and Women) have victim points but all White (and Men) have all the victimizer points.

The quoted book is from the totalitarianism of 100 years ago.  And then is used to act as a straw man for the 3 typical modern Americans.  The American culture has evolved from typical totalitarianism to inverted totalitarianism of today:

"The political philosopher Sheldon Wolin coined the term inverted totalitarianism in 2003 to describe what he saw as the emerging form of government of the United States. Wolin analysed the United States as increasingly turning into a managed democracy."

Which is to say, the Millennial is a neo-fascist.
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Mike Cl on March 15, 2020, 10:13:03 PM
There is no other word for crap than crap.
I would suggest that most of what you type on this board is crap--so, in your case, crap is crap--or even shit.
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Baruch on March 15, 2020, 10:46:58 PM
I would suggest that most of what you type on this board is crap--so, in your case, crap is crap--or even shit.

Your ad-hominems make me want a bowl of hominey ;-)

i won't dignify your angry-type responses beyond ... OK Boomer ;-))
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Mike Cl on March 15, 2020, 11:33:16 PM
Your ad-hominems make me want a bowl of hominey ;-)

i won't dignify your angry-type responses beyond ... OK Boomer ;-))
I wasn't talking to you and I don't really care what you 'dignify' or not 'dignify'. 
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: SGOS on March 16, 2020, 04:49:41 AM
Utube seems to attract a lot of odd balls.
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Baruch on March 16, 2020, 06:50:05 AM
I wasn't talking to you and I don't really care what you 'dignify' or not 'dignify'.

More BDS ... Baruch Derangement Syndrome.  Seek medical help?
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Baruch on March 16, 2020, 06:51:30 AM
Utube seems to attract a lot of odd balls.

CNN is god, bow down and worship Jim Acosta ;-)

Again, as so often happens, no actual arguments about the points made, just the "I am virtuous and you are a Nazi".  Proof of human devolution.
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on March 16, 2020, 02:57:18 PM
Sociology was originally a late 19th century political movement in academia, that was trying to make Marxism respectable.  It was mostly successful in this brainwashing because once something becomes status-quo in academia, it is like Aristotelianism in the Catholic universities.  Activism based on academic sociology became the socialism we all know and love.  The respectability aspect being, that unlike Marxism, Socialism isn't bloody in tooth and claw (as per French or Russian revolution).  Here is an analysis of 3 different generational views of bourgeois society ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n2Bnnw-c6U
Can I borrow this for my Sweeping Generalizations class?
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Baruch on March 16, 2020, 07:53:25 PM
Sweeping Generaiizations:

There is a universe

There is natural law

There is life

There is consciousness

There are people

There are Americans

There are Republicans

All wrong, because all generalizations don't take account of the infinite particularities.  In short, I don't know the name of your misuse of "over-generalization" but it is what you are claiming, without any specific justification.  In short, a wordy way to say ... "you are shit".  Senior citizen anger control failure (seen in a great many seniors in my own experience).

I think these analyses capture much of the generational character of the people born 1946 onward.  It matches my own experience and what I see in others.  if you think this characterization is unflattering, maybe you have an ego problem?  Is any "character" of a generation ... wrong?  No, it simply is what it is.
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Gregory on March 16, 2020, 09:20:10 PM
"All generalisations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Baruch on March 16, 2020, 10:17:13 PM
"All generalisations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain

A joke.  Are you a joke too?
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Gregory on March 17, 2020, 01:42:27 AM
I have many names.
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Baruch on March 17, 2020, 08:44:34 AM
I have many names.

You are legion.

Nos morituri te salutant.
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on March 17, 2020, 05:50:19 PM
So that would be a "yes", then. Thanks.
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Gregory on March 17, 2020, 09:38:57 PM
Every new generation is as bad as the last.  The old must have something to complain about.
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Baruch on March 17, 2020, 10:33:54 PM
Every new generation is as bad as the last.  The old must have something to complain about.

True, but not bad in the same way.  BTW - the videos are about descriptive sociology, not about politics, moralizing or virtue signaling.
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Baruch on March 18, 2020, 09:13:02 AM
A full quote ...

Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Baruch on March 21, 2020, 07:56:12 AM
More from the British past ... Boomer socialization ... no "Ask not what your country can do for you ..." but "What is in it for me".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_JK72cdJcI
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Baruch on March 30, 2020, 05:56:05 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpAFKM86qvw

Is growing up the enslavement of the child, or his/her liberation into responsibility?

Bad music, bad drugs, bad politics and bad sex aren't freedom.  Though bad music, other than deafness and public annoyance (boom box) is the least damaging.

Growing up is hard, and responsibility sucks.  I like to be childish (in a "sand box") myself.  I try not to damage my neighbors.
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Baruch on March 30, 2020, 01:07:24 PM
"Lord of the Rings is Pro-Hobbit Propaganda!" ... Leftist response to LOTR.
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Shiranu on March 30, 2020, 03:58:35 PM
"Lord of the Rings is Pro-Hobbit Propaganda!" ... Leftist response to LOTR.

Wouldn't Leftists be in favour of Hobbits, since they are both minorities and (whatever the politically correct term for height-impaired people is nowadays)?
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Baruch on March 30, 2020, 06:22:39 PM
Wouldn't Leftists be in favour of Hobbits, since they are both minorities and (whatever the politically correct term for height-impaired people is nowadays)?

The real Left is a cat's paw for the Deep State (Sauron).  The actual British satire on this, the British Left are shown protecting the rights of Orcs, their roving and man-eating ways, and their cultural habit of worshipping "The Flaming Eye" (see dollar bill).  The Hobbits are like White S African farmers being murdered by Bantu marauders.  LOTR is definitely pre-civil-rights era where Black is Beautiful.  The satire goes on to say how misunderstood Saruman is, and what villains the Hobbits, Dwarves, Elves and Men are.  Gondor and Rohan need open borders now!
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Vulcan on May 31, 2020, 06:04:24 PM
Sociology was originally a late 19th century political movement in academia, that was trying to make Marxism respectable.

Why do you think that?
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Baruch on May 31, 2020, 10:43:52 PM
Why do you think that?

Research into the Positivist political agenda of the academics who founded it.  This was Fabian communism.  We did get public schools more and more as we go into the 20th century.  My father's father was still unusual, to have completed HS, in 1916.  The government schools (rather than religious) and the movement after 1900 to remove religious control from governance of universities and colleges, and mandatory chapel for students ... are all part of the secular progressivism we know as Progressives (see Wisconsin/Minnesota) from 1920.  Gradual, non-radical reform along the lines immigrants from Scandinavia were looking for.  This is why Minneapolis is burning now.

The narrative of utopian sociology is ... The Foundation, by Isaac Asimov.
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Vulcan on June 03, 2020, 04:55:43 PM
Research into the Positivist political agenda of the academics who founded it.  This was Fabian communism.  We did get public schools more and more as we go into the 20th century.  My father's father was still unusual, to have completed HS, in 1916.  The government schools (rather than religious) and the movement after 1900 to remove religious control from governance of universities and colleges, and mandatory chapel for students ... are all part of the secular progressivism we know as Progressives (see Wisconsin/Minnesota) from 1920.  Gradual, non-radical reform along the lines immigrants from Scandinavia were looking for.  This is why Minneapolis is burning now.

The narrative of utopian sociology is ... The Foundation, by Isaac Asimov.

Haven't read the Foundation (though I have a copy of the entire thing on my shelf). So I'd need some context for the last remark.

I think academics have been proponents for positive progress since Socrates/Plato. And why not? Though they're not perfect, they are willing to look at information with rigorous scrutiny, and use logical argument. (Unlike the rest of the populace.)

Marx has influenced many disciplines (history, philosophy, sociology)-- true. But only because he made some very good points. And had some very compelling methodologies for interpreting history and society.

Sure. Marx's theory is weak in many ways. But I don't blame anyone for taking him seriously. So many of his criticisms were on point. And, as I'm sure you know, even proponents of Marx in academia reject a great many of his ideas. But only a fool would reject the whole of Marx's criticisms.

I, for one, like Marx's take on why Minneapolis is burning now.
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: aitm on June 03, 2020, 05:12:08 PM
Shit happens. We either adapt or not.
Title: Re: Boomer Philosophy vs X-Gen vs Millennial
Post by: Baruch on June 03, 2020, 07:15:03 PM
Haven't read the Foundation (though I have a copy of the entire thing on my shelf). So I'd need some context for the last remark.

I think academics have been proponents for positive progress since Socrates/Plato. And why not? Though they're not perfect, they are willing to look at information with rigorous scrutiny, and use logical argument. (Unlike the rest of the populace.)

Marx has influenced many disciplines (history, philosophy, sociology)-- true. But only because he made some very good points. And had some very compelling methodologies for interpreting history and society.

Sure. Marx's theory is weak in many ways. But I don't blame anyone for taking him seriously. So many of his criticisms were on point. And, as I'm sure you know, even proponents of Marx in academia reject a great many of his ideas. But only a fool would reject the whole of Marx's criticisms.

I, for one, like Marx's take on why Minneapolis is burning now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hari_Seldon

Hari Seldon is a character in the first book, crucial for the entire Foundation series.  He is a psychohistorian ... he can in broad brush over long periods, predict the general development of history.  As the Galactic Empire falls (Star Wars is a cheap imitation) he thinks that a Dark Ages will result, but if he gives critical nudges over time (long after he is dead) thru oracular recordings, he can shorten the total length of the Dark Ages.

See my other post on the real politik behind Socrates' reasonable views.  Proper academics start with the Academy of Plato, of course ;-)  Government employment of such is centuries later, with Quintilian ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quintilian

Quintilian is the first "professor" aka a publicly paid teach of higher education.  Which for Romans centered in rhetoric.  All other teachers prior to that were private.  Students paid for instruction.  With a "professor" the State pays his salary.

This all fell into disuse with the rise of Christianity and the fall of the Roman Empire.  In Byzantium, higher education continued, but it was entirely Church directed.  The schools of Athens and Alexadria were closed down, because secular learning was associated with paganism.

Higher education didn't resume in the West, until the University of Paris and Oxford University (a rebellious offshoot of the University of Paris).  Aside from medical schools in various places, which were inspired by Aristotelian medical science in the Abbasid Empire.  Of course, their intent was to serve the Catholic Church.

Until the Renaissance and Reformation, there were no higher schooling intellectually independent, or open to non-Catholics.  Even in the 17th century, higher education in England was there to serve the Anglican Church.

So by progress, this means different things in different places at different periods.  You are probably aware of my old avatar, Baruch Spinoza.  He is the beginning of modernity, his ideas being the central ideas upon which the development Enlightenment thinking was based.  This level of discussion isn't for most people, you are a breath of fresh air in a stale Internet Cafe ;-)

A proper discussion of Marxism is a whole other thread!