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Humanities Section => Philosophy & Rhetoric General Discussion => Topic started by: Gregory on February 28, 2020, 01:14:54 AM

Title: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: Gregory on February 28, 2020, 01:14:54 AM
"Free will is limited."
- Erasmus

I have not heard it better described, how can the will be otherwise free?
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: aitm on February 28, 2020, 07:46:34 AM
 and......down the rabbit hole we go....
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: Sal1981 on February 28, 2020, 08:01:12 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: Hydra009 on February 28, 2020, 10:15:23 AM
I've never met a man who didn't want to eat when very hungry.
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: Baruch on February 28, 2020, 11:10:02 AM
Free will  = can create something from nothing based on whim?  No.

Human beings can only rearrange what already exists.  Yes.

That they can freely do, if their mother lets them out of the basement ;-)

People don't want to admit to free will, when standing before a judge, for the crimes they commit.

Erasmus was a liberal Catholic from 550 years ago.  Good at Greek NT though.

His quote on free will is based on Pauline theology.
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: SGOS on February 29, 2020, 12:04:06 AM
Quote from: aitm on February 28, 2020, 07:46:34 AM
and......down the rabbit hole we go....
And to quote one of your other responses from years ago:  "Not this shit again."
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: SGOS on February 29, 2020, 12:04:54 AM
Next lets do "Is it nature or nurture?"
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: Baruch on February 29, 2020, 01:43:23 AM
Quote from: SGOS on February 29, 2020, 12:04:54 AM
Next lets do "Is it nature or nurture?"

Both.  Only Western people aka idiots, think it is either/or.
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: Unbeliever on February 29, 2020, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: SGOS on February 29, 2020, 12:04:54 AM
Next lets do "Is it nature or nurture?"

It's both.
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: Unbeliever on February 29, 2020, 01:59:58 PM
Is light a particle or a wave?



;-P
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on February 29, 2020, 06:07:48 PM
Could be.

The universe at the micro level is random. Like truly random. All predictions are probabilistic at the particle level. It becomes more deterministic as you go through the scale life exists at, and chaotic at the macro level.

So free will could be an illusion and our lives could be entirely chaotic or deterministic. Or it could truly exist, as random as the smallest particles. More research is needed. ;)
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: Baruch on February 29, 2020, 08:05:40 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on February 29, 2020, 01:59:58 PM
Is light a particle or a wave?



;-P

Which walnut shell is the dry pea under?  None, I ate the pea when you weren't looking!
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: Baruch on February 29, 2020, 08:06:51 PM
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on February 29, 2020, 06:07:48 PM
Could be.

The universe at the micro level is random. Like truly random. All predictions are probabilistic at the particle level. It becomes more deterministic as you go through the scale life exists at, and chaotic at the macro level.

So free will could be an illusion and our lives could be entirely chaotic or deterministic. Or it could truly exist, as random as the smallest particles. More research is needed. ;)

Reality already shows those aren't mutually exclusive.  It is the human brain that can't cope.  Designed to peal bananas.
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: Unbeliever on March 01, 2020, 05:40:37 PM
Quote from: Baruch on February 29, 2020, 08:06:51 PM
Reality already shows those aren't mutually exclusive.  It is the human brain that can't cope.  Designed to peal bananas.

You "peel" a banana, bells "peal."
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on March 01, 2020, 06:36:27 PM
Define "free will".
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: Baruch on March 01, 2020, 06:55:14 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 01, 2020, 05:40:37 PM
You "peel" a banana, bells "peal."

You porn your way, I porn my way ;-p
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: Baruch on March 01, 2020, 06:56:21 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on March 01, 2020, 06:36:27 PM
Define "free will".

Free Will -> See free lunch, if your name is Bill
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: Unbeliever on March 02, 2020, 01:42:17 PM
"FIRE AT WILL!"


"OK, but which one is Will?"
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: Gregory on March 08, 2020, 04:45:18 AM
I am entirely responsible for my actions. I always choose the best even when I choose poorly.
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: Baruch on March 08, 2020, 10:20:13 AM
Quote from: Gregory on March 08, 2020, 04:45:18 AM
I am entirely responsible for my actions. I always choose the best even when I choose poorly.

An good example of semantics crawling up its own ass.
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: aitm on March 08, 2020, 07:17:42 PM
Quote from: Gregory on March 08, 2020, 04:45:18 AM
I am entirely responsible for my actions. I always choose the best even when I choose poorly.
While that in itself is true. We as well must react to the actions of others, sometimes being forced to do what we would never do if not provoked. This is why we have juries. They try to decide if we were “in our right frame of mind”. Anyone who has been in combat or in a terrorizing frightening event will telll you that we were not in our right frame of mind.
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: Unbeliever on March 09, 2020, 05:39:30 PM
Quote from: Gregory on March 08, 2020, 04:45:18 AM
I am entirely responsible for my actions. I always choose the best even when I choose poorly.

Until something happens to damage your brain, and then you'll be unable to "choose" to do what your brain can no longer do.
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: Gregory on March 10, 2020, 03:34:13 AM
Quote from: aitm on March 08, 2020, 07:17:42 PM
While that in itself is true. We as well must react to the actions of others, sometimes being forced to do what we would never do if not provoked. This is why we have juries. They try to decide if we were “in our right frame of mind”. Anyone who has been in combat or in a terrorizing frightening event will telll you that we were not in our right frame of mind.

If I don't consider others, I am not being responsible.
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: aitm on March 10, 2020, 09:21:37 AM
Quote from: Gregory on March 10, 2020, 03:34:13 AM
If I don't consider others, I am not being responsible.
If you could truly do that, you would not be able to leave the house, for every scenario of possible interference from another must be considered, from a wayward dog to a distracted driver, falling airplane, collapsing bridge, disease, thieves...and Girl Scouts. One cannot expect the unexpected, nor prepare for it. We can only prepare for the expected, even though unlikely.
Title: Re: Is free will an illusion?
Post by: Baruch on March 10, 2020, 11:40:32 AM
Quote from: aitm on March 10, 2020, 09:21:37 AM
If you could truly do that, you would not be able to leave the house, for every scenario of possible interference from another must be considered, from a wayward dog to a distracted driver, falling airplane, collapsing bridge, disease, thieves...and Girl Scouts. One cannot expect the unexpected, nor prepare for it. We can only prepare for the expected, even though unlikely.

Gregory is glib and tends to rely on quotes a bit much.  Perhaps Gregory is a Jain, who even avoids stepping on a bug?  One must approach the day awake and confident, to handle both the expected and the unexpected.