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Extraordinary Claims => Religion General Discussion => Topic started by: Cyclone on December 15, 2019, 10:28:59 PM

Title: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Cyclone on December 15, 2019, 10:28:59 PM
Maybe this belongs more in another box but since she's best known as a religious figure I figured i would start here.

Joan of Arc story is highly  mythologized but going over her court transcripts is fascinating. She claimed she could know Charles VII immediately despite never seeing him, and according to some of the court documents she did. Some witnesses just say she presented herself to the king but others say the king hid himself incognito in the crowd of his court and yet she went right to him. Considering it was the 1420s I find it doubtful she had ever seen a portrait of him. I'm not a theist at and her supposed predictions are all vague or cold reading  (like no shit you predict you'll be hurt in a battle) but how could she have known a man shed never seen?
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Baruch on December 15, 2019, 11:00:27 PM
I like Joan of Arc.  But there is an analysis that says she wasn't innocent.  What is commonly presented, including in The Messenger, is a hagiography.

There are some of the more recent questions that have come up ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceQ_cmzxeKE
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Hydra009 on December 16, 2019, 12:35:03 AM
She claimed she could know Charles VII immediately despite never seeing him
Whoa!  That's weird!  I'm racking my brain trying to figure out a way someone could possibly know what their ruler looks like without personally meeting them.

So, did Kings around that time not appear on coins?  Or have portraits made?  Or statues?  Jeez, this is a tough one!
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Cyclone on December 16, 2019, 01:22:30 AM
Tbh I figured there wouldn't be a lot of pictures of the dethroned prince(she called him her king but he wasn't quite)  kicking around poor villages in 1420
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: PopeyesPappy on December 16, 2019, 07:29:40 AM
Cyclone,

What is your relationship with Syrimoon?
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on December 16, 2019, 09:16:49 AM
Official documents are never retrofitted. Right?
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Hydra009 on December 16, 2019, 06:47:06 PM
Tbh I figured there wouldn't be a lot of pictures of the dethroned prince(she called him her king but he wasn't quite)  kicking around poor villages in 1420
Clearly, there's not a mundane explaination and magic is the safe bet.

There are many ways a sword can be found in a field, you know.  (or maybe you dont)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w47UQxld7LM
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Baruch on December 17, 2019, 09:16:20 AM
In America, I know a guy who would use a "Water witch" to find water, probably even easier to find a sword.
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on December 17, 2019, 11:01:30 AM
There's no real reason to believe this actually happened.
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Baruch on December 17, 2019, 12:41:40 PM
There's no real reason to believe this actually happened.

"History is bunk!" - Henry Ford

And not just the fantastic bits.  History is old accepted propaganda.  Until new politics ideologically revises it.  Was George Washington right or wrong?  For that matter, was Hitler right or wrong (given Stalin).
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on December 17, 2019, 02:57:56 PM
Ford never studied history, he just dabbled at best.
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Baruch on December 17, 2019, 08:19:52 PM
Ford never studied history, he just dabbled at best.

Henry Ford made history, he wasn't a %&$^$ historian.  And he was Hitler's favorite American.
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on December 18, 2019, 07:14:59 AM
You've never heard of Lindbergh. Non-historians like you and Ford often fuck history up.
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Baruch on December 18, 2019, 07:19:59 AM
You've never heard of Lindbergh. Non-historians like you and Ford often fuck history up.

Charles Lindberg Sr?  Yes, he knew that President Wilson was a traitor.  And per President Wilson, enforcing segregation in DC, President Wilson was a racist.

Charles Lindberg Jr?  The Nazi cock sucker?  Yeah, I appreciate Jimmy Stewart playing the part, but the man himself was a psychopath.
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: PopeyesPappy on December 18, 2019, 07:46:12 AM
If we are arguing about who Hitler's favorite American was, I'm going to land on the Ford side of the debate. Hitler was a big fan of Ford's publication The International Jew, and it was Ford's portrait hanging above Hitler's desk in 1931 when he told an American journalist that Ford was his inspiration. Ford also received his Grand Cross of the Supreme Order of the German Eagle at the direction of Hitler a couple of months before Goring presented Lindbergh with his.
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Baruch on December 18, 2019, 07:51:20 AM
If we are arguing about who Hitler's favorite American was, I'm going to land on the Ford side of the debate. Hitler was a big fan of Ford's publication The International Jew, and it was Ford's portrait hanging above Hitler's desk in 1931 when he told an American journalist that Ford was his inspiration. Ford also received his Grand Cross of the Supreme Order of the German Eagle at the direction of Hitler a couple of months before Goring presented Lindbergh with his.

Hitler wasn't stupid.  He also admired "mass production" ala Ford Motor Company.  As progressives, Hitler and Stalin both supported industrialization.  And all three; Ford, Hitler and Stalin ... opposed trade unionism.  The early 20th century mixed a lot of metaphors.  For all three, Banking and Unions were Jewish conspiracies.
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on December 18, 2019, 08:15:50 AM
Charles Lindberg Sr?  Yes, he knew that President Wilson was a traitor.  And per President Wilson, enforcing segregation in DC, President Wilson was a racist.

Charles Lindberg Jr?  The Nazi cock sucker?  Yeah, I appreciate Jimmy Stewart playing the part, but the man himself was a psychopath.
You have a fluffy sense of history. I despise Lindbergh, but I don't classify him as a Nazi. He was an appeaser who got duped by the Third Reich. After he was hornswoggled by the Luftwaffe into thinking they had four times as many planes as they actually had he did some unwitting PR work for them, telling the world that Germany was far better equipped than it actually was. The Germans were grateful. Hermann Goering walk into a party Lindy was attending, shoved a medal into his hands and walked out after uttering a two sentence speech. That medal (the Service Cross of the German Eagle) was on display about 20 miles from here.
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Baruch on December 18, 2019, 09:02:34 AM
You have a fluffy sense of history. I despise Lindbergh, but I don't classify him as a Nazi. He was an appeaser who got duped by the Third Reich. After he was hornswoggled by the Luftwaffe into thinking they had four times as many planes as they actually had he did some unwitting PR work for them, telling the world that Germany was far better equipped than it actually was. The Germans were grateful. Hermann Goering walk into a party Lindy was attending, shoved a medal into his hands and walked out after uttering a two sentence speech. That medal (the Service Cross of the German Eagle) was on display about 20 miles from here.

Yes, one could claim that.  He did redeem himself, unlike Jane Fonda.  There were lots of Americans who thought Nazis were cool, including the elder daughter of the American ambassador.  Were all German-philes double agents?  The whole RCC was a breeding ground of Nazis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Garden_of_Beasts

Sorry, I view all the appeasers as closet Nazis.  Even the British royal family were closet Nazis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL5sOKP5Aqw

Former King Edward VIII was going to be the replacement for King George VI, in Nazi occupied GB.

It is OK to be a Germanophile.  It is of course political to distort the historical record.  Hitler did nothing wrong, but Stalin did.
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on December 18, 2019, 10:35:44 AM
You really need to read at least one book on history.
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Unbeliever on December 18, 2019, 01:25:57 PM
If we are arguing about who Hitler's favorite American was, I'm going to land on the Ford side of the debate. Hitler was a big fan of Ford's publication The International Jew, and it was Ford's portrait hanging above Hitler's desk in 1931 when he told an American journalist that Ford was his inspiration. Ford also received his Grand Cross of the Supreme Order of the German Eagle at the direction of Hitler a couple of months before Goring presented Lindbergh with his.

If sHitler was still around, I have a feeling I know who his favorite American would be...
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Baruch on December 18, 2019, 02:48:34 PM
You really need to read at least one book on history.

Have.  How about "Agent Garbo" by Stephan Talty?  Given the cloak-and-dagger, is any truth to be found?  Basically in Churchill's Nobel Prize winning history of WW II, he was propagandizing, and hiding Ultra (for good reason).

“In war, truth is the first casualty.” - Aeschylus
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Baruch on December 18, 2019, 02:49:40 PM
If sHitler was still around, I have a feeling I know who his favorite American would be...

The American Richard Spencer?  Yeah, he even supported Jeremy Corbyn (over anti-Semitism).  All Dems support Trotsky these days.
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on December 18, 2019, 07:43:21 PM
Have.  How about "Agent Garbo" by Stephan Talty?  Given the cloak-and-dagger, is any truth to be found?  Basically in Churchill's Nobel Prize winning history of WW II, he was propagandizing, and hiding Ultra (for good reason).

“In war, truth is the first casualty.” - Aeschylus
I meant non-lunatic material.
Title: Re: Joan of Arc recognizing charles/ESP
Post by: Baruch on December 18, 2019, 09:48:08 PM
I meant non-lunatic material.

Sorry ... all material is lunatic ... Moon has been around for billions of years.