In the 60s-70s in Egypt there were sightings of an apparition of the virgin Mary on the roof of a church by believers and nonbelievers alike. There are also many photographs which according to articles can not be proven to be faked. Many consider it one of the most convincing Marian apparitions. I've seen theories involving projections and holograms but it doesn't seem likely. Police even at one point cut all power to the church and people still saw these lights and figures
I saw a butt on a piece of toast the other day.
...
All hail Butt!
I have a purple dragon in my garage. You can't prove it's not there because it's invisible. As is the garage.
But did tens of thousands claim to see it?
Fml man I've just been on a hell spree of reading Catholic miracles and it's really got me shaken up. Anyone hear about the statue of Akita thar, when tested, was indeed oozing real blood and tears? I want to find a rational explanation of that but I just can't
Wallowing in bullshit doesn't make you smell better.
Quote from: Syrimoon on November 24, 2019, 11:01:23 AM
But did tens of thousands claim to see it?
Fml man I've just been on a hell spree of reading Catholic miracles and it's really got me shaken up. Anyone hear about the statue of Akita thar, when tested, was indeed oozing real blood and tears? I want to find a rational explanation of that but I just can't
BS. It was confirmed to be olive oil. Now you're just lying.
Quote from: Sal1981 on November 24, 2019, 11:04:03 AM
BS. It was confirmed to be olive oil. Now you're just lying.
It's not a lot of its what I understand to be true. I can't find anything regarding rhebstatue of Akita actually being olive oil, but I some info
I don't think you could understand how to tie your shoelaces.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 24, 2019, 11:23:12 AM
I don't think you could understand how to tie your shoelaces.
Do you have an explanation for why fluid collected from a bleeding statue was confirmed to be blood
Quote from: Syrimoon on November 24, 2019, 11:25:59 AM
Do you have an explanation for why fluid collected from a bleeding statue was confirmed to be blood
Simple, somebody's bullshitting.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 24, 2019, 11:29:36 AM
Simple, somebody's bullshitting.
Well, the first one to test it was Catholic, I guess he could have passed on forgeries to the non Christian ones who came after
Or you're the one that's lying here.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 24, 2019, 11:36:31 AM
Or you're the one that's lying here.
Dude wtf
https://www.google.com/search?q=our+lady+of+akita&oq=our+ady+of+akita&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l3.4326j0j9&client=ms-android-americamovil-us&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
I'm literally one repeating what I've read reported on the case
Bingo. You're repeating bullshit.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 24, 2019, 11:49:18 AM
Bingo. You're repeating bullshit.
I'm repeating what I've read and can't understand in hopes others can help me understand
Quote from: Syrimoon on November 24, 2019, 11:01:23 AM
But did tens of thousands claim to see it?
Fml man I've just been on a hell spree of reading Catholic miracles and it's really got me shaken up. Anyone hear about the statue of Akita thar, when tested, was indeed oozing real blood and tears? I want to find a rational explanation of that but I just can't
Look at it this way. Does god (any god) give a shit about his created people? Would a god that does hide his 'works' from 95% of his creation? He knows the intelligence level of his creation so why not simply make something happen that all can see, feel, hear and sense, as opposed to just reveling a tiny bit to a very small group of people? Why did this wonderful god simply not make a universal rule book, in every language and plop them down in all areas of the world? Instead he uses stealth and affects a tiny amount of people???? It makes more sense that people are easily fooled and really usually find what it is they want to find, even if it is not there.
Tens of thousands saw it??? Really? That number couldn't be inflated, could it? And if not, that is only a tiny, tiny fraction of the 7+ billion that exist. Not a very good effort by the 'Creator of the Universe' is it? So, he is willing to shit-can 99% of his creation. What a merciful, just, and considerate god you want to believe in.
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 24, 2019, 12:46:45 PM
Look at it this way. Does god (any god) give a shit about his created people? Would a god that does hide his 'works' from 95% of his creation? He knows the intelligence level of his creation so why not simply make something happen that all can see, feel, hear and sense, as opposed to just reveling a tiny bit to a very small group of people? Why did this wonderful god simply not make a universal rule book, in every language and plop them down in all areas of the world? Instead he uses stealth and affects a tiny amount of people???? It makes more sense that people are easily fooled and really usually find what it is they want to find, even if it is not there.
Tens of thousands saw it??? Really? That number couldn't be inflated, could it? And if not, that is only a tiny, tiny fraction of the 7+ billion that exist. Not a very good effort by the 'Creator of the Universe' is it? So, he is willing to shit-can 99% of his creation. What a merciful, just, and considerate god you want to believe in.
I was just in Catholicism so long that I have all the indoctrinated answers to be able to spit back out to all of that, none of which stand up to scrutiny, I know, but which I still struggle with
I know I have fast gotten the reputation as a troll or apologist but I'm not. I'm a survivor of religious trauma going through a breakdown
Quote from: Syrimoon on November 24, 2019, 12:37:07 PM
I'm repeating what I've read and can't understand in hopes others can help me understand
Understanding isn't involved with you, you want someone to tell you it's real. We see that kind of stupidity a lot here.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 24, 2019, 01:30:39 PM
Understanding isn't involved with you, you want someone to tell you it's real. We see that kind of stupidity a lot here.
I don't but ok
https://youtu.be/ZCL4dXUtblg
Quote from: Syrimoon on November 24, 2019, 10:05:56 AM
In the 60s-70s in Egypt there were sightings of an apparition of the virgin Mary on the roof of a church by believers and nonbelievers alike. There are also many photographs which according to articles can not be proven to be faked. Many consider it one of the most convincing Marian apparitions. I've seen theories involving projections and holograms but it doesn't seem likely. Police even at one point cut all power to the church and people still saw these lights and figures
Hallucination, can happen in groups effected by group hysteria.
You are trying to prove the Catholic god is the one true god? You are wrong. But free to believe whatever.
Quote from: Syrimoon on November 24, 2019, 11:25:59 AM
Do you have an explanation for why fluid collected from a bleeding statue was confirmed to be blood
Red liquid. If blood, it could be DNA tested. Was it tested?
Quote from: Minimalist on November 24, 2019, 04:37:13 PM
https://youtu.be/ZCL4dXUtblg
I can agree to an extent but I just look at how many miracles have said to occur and how many witnesses they have and how many secular people a d doctors and skeptics have had to look at things and go, I can not explain this. Maybe I'm sick or maybe I'm mentally ill or whatever but my mind fills this gap with, there's too much unexplained and too many coincidences in favor of miracles and I don't know what to do to overcome this thought process
Quote from: Baruch on November 24, 2019, 05:03:09 PM
Red liquid. If blood, it could be DNA tested. Was it tested?
It was type tested but this was before dna
Quote from: Syrimoon on November 24, 2019, 12:37:07 PM
I'm repeating what I've read and can't understand in hopes others can help me understand
If you don't experience it yourself, then it isn't of much use to you. This applies to almost everything. I experience G-d all the time, being a mystic. So that precaution is waived in my case, and others like me. Oh, I met Jesus in one of my vivid dreams. But was it Jesus, or just me being Jesus? Anyway, he didn't impart much, not even a winning lotto ticket number.
Quote from: Syrimoon on November 24, 2019, 05:04:50 PM
It was type tested but this was before dna
Too bad. Maybe next time they can DNA test it and see if the blood is Jewish.
Again, you want a sign. You are a Pharisee. You are going to Hell, sorry. In Heaven you get to study Talmud with a prophet, maybe even Moses if you are good enough.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 24, 2019, 10:28:35 AM
I have a purple dragon in my garage. You can't prove it's not there because it's invisible. As is the garage.
Some people can search for a black cat, in a totally dark room, that isn't there - and find it.
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 24, 2019, 05:16:01 PM
Some people can search for a black cat, in a totally dark room, that isn't there - and find it.
I feel like I have an abundance of those right now
How were all of you able to do it? What am I missing between "I don't know what happened here but it isn't god" to "they claim it's real and there's evidence so ikts god?" I'm so damn torn because I can read articles about the sketchy origins of all these stories and agree yeah, the id religion isn't true, but you show me Marian apparitions that I don't know How to explain and suddenly it's new evidence to send backwards
Quote from: Syrimoon on November 24, 2019, 11:01:23 AM
But did tens of thousands claim to see it?
Fml man I've just been on a hell spree of reading Catholic miracles and it's really got me shaken up. Anyone hear about the statue of Akita thar, when tested, was indeed oozing real blood and tears? I want to find a rational explanation of that but I just can't
Given the omnipotent nature of the God you've been told about, don't you think it could do a bit more than merely to make statues weep?
Quote from: Syrimoon on November 24, 2019, 05:19:39 PM
I feel like I have an abundance of those right now
How were all of you able to do it? What am I missing between "I don't know what happened here but it isn't god" to "they claim it's real and there's evidence so ikts god?" I'm so damn torn because I can read articles about the sketchy origins of all these stories and agree yeah, the id religion isn't true, but you show me Marian apparitions that I don't know How to explain and suddenly it's new evidence to send backwards
Stop reading now! Step away from the book, newspaper, Internet etc slowly. Go take a nap. Your reading isn't doing you any good. This doesn't end well. You will end up reading all the articles on Wikipedia and want to refute them all!
A lot of weeping statues have been attested to over the years. But how can it really be determined whether the phenomenon can only be explained by assuming that a deity did it? Do we say "Well, we can see how it could possibly be anything other than the work of God, so God must have done it!"
No, because if we'd have done that we'd still be living in the Dark Age.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weeping_statue#Hoaxes_and_skepticism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weeping_statue#List_of_weeping_statues
Quote from: Baruch on November 24, 2019, 05:06:32 PM
If you don't experience it yourself, then it isn't of much use to you. This applies to almost everything. I experience G-d all the time, being a mystic. So that precaution is waived in my case, and others like me. Oh, I met Jesus in one of my vivid dreams. But was it Jesus, or just me being Jesus? Anyway, he didn't impart much, not even a winning lotto ticket number.
At least he didn't kill your fig trees!
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 24, 2019, 05:31:58 PM
A lot of weeping statues have been attested to over the years. But how can it really be determined whether the phenomenon can only be explained by assuming that a deity did it? Do we say "Well, we can see how it could possibly be anything other than the work of God, so God must have done it!"
No, because if we'd have done that we'd still be living in the Dark Age.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weeping_statue#Hoaxes_and_skepticism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weeping_statue#List_of_weeping_statues
And despite all the hoaxes and ways to take it my frazed brain still looks at how Akita bled on tv and is still held by the church as being true. Which yes I suppose just because they claim to have high standards doesn't mean they do , it very well could be faked, even for a tv broadcast. I'm still strugeing with how the nun knew she would recover from her hearing loss though, it seems such a stretch of coicondience. Could she already be having signs of her hearing returning? I have no doubt that spontaneous healing of any malady cam happen, it's when healings coincide with prophesies or visions that i give pause
Quote from: Syrimoon on November 24, 2019, 05:19:39 PM
I feel like I have an abundance of those right now
How were all of you able to do it? What am I missing between "I don't know what happened here but it isn't god" to "they claim it's real and there's evidence so ikts god?" I'm so damn torn because I can read articles about the sketchy origins of all these stories and agree yeah, the id religion isn't true, but you show me Marian apparitions that I don't know How to explain and suddenly it's new evidence to send backwards
Many Marian apparitions are just pareidolia. That's the tendency of people to se order where there is only random pattern.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af1kWzTbIjo
You guys have fun with this goomba.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6m04YaXcQA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwcffJgchWg
See how easy it is to see things that just aren't there?
There are 3 options about who you are:
-Your brain has been washed since your childhood that although you are not mentally handicapped.
-You are a troll.
-Or you are a total idiot.
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 24, 2019, 05:56:29 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwcffJgchWg
See how easy it is to see things that just aren't there?
I can definatelt see that as being bullshit. It's just seeing faces. It's hard for me to put that in the same category though of people having multiple full fledged visions and then being healed from physical conditions right after
Like with akita, I think, yes she could be lying and making her own stigmata and someone could be taking the statue crying and messing with the samples and her hearing loss and return (and then loss and return again...) could be a coincidence...but isn't that a lot ?
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on November 24, 2019, 06:13:02 PM
There are 3 options about who you are:
-Your brain has been washed since your childhood that although you are not mentally handicapped.
-You are a troll.
-Or you are a total idiot.
I'm not a troll. If you want to call me an idiot I'm ok with that
I haven't eaten in 2 days, I can't even get the energy to wash my face or brush my teeth, I'm absolutely sick with panic over these issues. I'm not a troll
Quote from: Syrimoon on November 24, 2019, 06:17:01 PM
I'm not a troll. If you want to call me an idiot I'm ok with that
I haven't eaten in 2 days, I can't even get the energy to wash my face or brush my teeth, I'm absolutely sick with panic over these issues. I'm not a troll
Hmmm, From the wiev of an amateur psyciatrist and it is me, you may be a passionate idealist, who is trying finding the truth in your own way.
However it is not a good thing to be a passionate idealist sometimes, as in your situation, if you are saying the truth what you have been undergoing in 2 days… Yours is an obsession, an obsession to quest the truth but you are lost in no good way...
Why panic? What's the rush, you'll understand or not, but why worry? You only get this one life, why spend it worrying about things you can never really know for sure?
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 24, 2019, 06:24:43 PM
Why panic? What's the rush, you'll understand or not, but why worry? You only get this one life, why spend it worrying about things you can never really know for sure?
Here's my thing. I went through this before as a Catholic for about five years. It nearly cost me everything I held dear. I escaped and lived very happily. I have a job, a nice place, a wife.
And now I'm seeing all these indications towards Catholicism being true and it's terrifying me to the bone because I feel like somethinf is telling me, you know it's true, you're just afraid to go back because you want to live in sin
And I do. If being married to my wife is sin (I'm a chick). I keep looking at her, love of my fucking life and all I can think is, I have to give her up. I have to lose her, because the church says so.
So you can call me an idiot or a dumb ass but I'm not a troll, I'm fucking suffering
How come no one ever sees an image of Stormy Daniels flashing her tits.
Now those are miraculous.
I haven't called you an idiot. You may be one, but I went through a similar, (well, maybe not too similar) time in my life. Once I came to stop believing I was never tempted to return to that state of mind of belief. It isn't just God I don't believe in, though, but many things that most people hold dear. But not believing in things isn't necessarily a negative stance:
Quote from: Barbara Smoker, former president of the National Secular Society,
The point is surely that the only kind of unremitting negativism is apathy, not attack. Everthing that is attacked has its obverse 'positive' side. If you are against war, you are for peace; if you are against priveledge, you are for equality; if you are against censorship, you are for freedom of speech; if you are against superstition, you are for reason; if you are against humbug, you are for honesty; and if you are against mystical obscurantism, you are for freethought.
You're a nut case? Nah, I don't believe you.
Quote from: Syrimoon on November 24, 2019, 05:19:39 PM
I feel like I have an abundance of those right now
How were all of you able to do it? What am I missing between "I don't know what happened here but it isn't god" to "they claim it's real and there's evidence so ikts god?" I'm so damn torn because I can read articles about the sketchy origins of all these stories and agree yeah, the id religion isn't true, but you show me Marian apparitions that I don't know How to explain and suddenly it's new evidence to send backwards
Look, you cannot 'know' everything. There are literally thousands upon thousands of mysteries in nature. People hate mysteries. So, god was born (or created by people) to answer just those questions. If you run across a mystery, then simple--god did it. Then it is no longer a mystery. Go back 200 years and tell me what people would have thought of TV, or movies, or passenger airlines. Miracles, all.
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 24, 2019, 05:43:31 PM
At least he didn't kill your fig trees!
That story was symbolic, too bad literalists can only read comics.
Quote from: Baruch on November 25, 2019, 11:05:20 AM
That story was symbolic, too bad literalists can only read comics.
Yeah...
The problem is, there is no primer for the Bible that definitively tells us fallible humans, just which passages are: metaphor, symbolic, literal, poetry, prarble, instructions, etc, etc.
For every theist that bases their theism on the Bible, we get just as many opinions on which of the above category almost every passage in the Bible fits into to. Jews reject the entire New Testament, Muslims claim Jesus was a Prophet and not a god-man, and Christians claim the Old Testament is loaded with prophecies foretelling of Jesus arrival (which the Jews admitently disagree with).
Then there is the fact that there are over 30K sects if Christianity, many with major differences on 'important' doctrine.
So, get back to us on exactly how
you go about determining which passages are: literal, symbolic, metaphor, etc. And why we should believe your interpretation, and not all the other theists who disagree with you.
Quote from: Simon Moon on November 25, 2019, 12:24:03 PM
Yeah...
The problem is, there is no primer for the Bible that definitively tells us fallible humans, just which passages are: metaphor, symbolic, literal, poetry, prarble, instructions, etc, etc.
For every theist that bases their theism on the Bible, we get just as many opinions on which of the above category almost every passage in the Bible fits into to. Jews reject the entire New Testament, Muslims claim Jesus was a Prophet and not a god-man, and Christians claim the Old Testament is loaded with prophecies foretelling of Jesus arrival (which the Jews admitently disagree with).
Then there is the fact that there are over 30K sects if Christianity, many with major differences on 'important' doctrine.
So, get back to us on exactly how you go about determining which passages are: literal, symbolic, metaphor, etc. And why we should believe your interpretation, and not all the other theists who disagree with you.
That is why you need an infallible Papacy to interpret things for you ;-) I don't base my own personality on some book. So interpretation isn't an issue for me.
No, the only one true interpretation of the Bible or any other literature ... is the atheist way. Poetry should only be judged by people who hate poetry.
What do I think happened? Mass hysteria, as tends to happen at any gathering of fervent believers. Visit a megachurch sometime and you can witness the behavior for yourself.
Quote from: Syrimoon on November 24, 2019, 11:01:23 AM
But did tens of thousands claim to see it?
(https://i.imgur.com/CXhTwul.jpg)