"President Donald Trump on Sunday ominously raised the possibility of violence if he is removed from office, quoting an evangelical pastor who warned on Fox News of a “Civil War-like†fracture."
That is a fun headline. Should we now start stockpiling for the shooting war trump wants--or is warning us about? Okay, let's be real. Can't happen here, can it?! Of course it can't. That is bizarre beyond bizarreness. Right!?
And of course, trump will never be elected in the first place--right????! Right.
Emperor Trump, more like.
I've been expecting Trump's fan club to not take it (impeachment proceedings) lying down. It only takes a very small percentage of his hundred-million-plus idol worshippers to believe violence is the solution to create a really bad situation in this country. I hope it is only a tiny percentage, but only one percent would still be around a million people. And they all have access to (or already own) military-style weapons.
Its amazingly horrifying how stupid people can be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMRXTGgrksY
$50,000 for the identity of "the whistle-blower" - is anyone surprised?
“the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. it is it’s natural manure.†- Thomas Jefferson
So who are the tyrants? Democrats? Republicans? There can't be a US Civil War unless the Democrats start it ;-) They have always been the party of rebellion, back to Thomas Jefferson and Jefferson Davis. Even if there had never been any slaves.
So yes, I happily await the Democrats declaring war on the Washington DC. Second time's a charm.
If there had been a civil war against JFK stealing the 1960 election (with the assistance of LBJ) ... and the Democrats lost ... there would have been no one million Vietnamese dead. Since it was the Americans who were the aggressors, it should have been one million Americans dead.
Real Democrats are pacifists, afraid of a spork. No danger to anyone but themselves.
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 30, 2019, 02:15:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMRXTGgrksY
$50,000 for the identity of "the whistle-blower" - is anyone surprised?
Republicans know the identity of the Democrat members of Congress. Do they need anything more?
The disgruntled CIA agent, was most likely a neo-con Republican ... not a Democrat at all. This came out after Bolton was fired.
Oh oh ... (guy from Car 54 Where Are You) ... how about the Democrat assault on DC be a combination of Stonewall and the 1968 Dem Chicago convention?
I invite attention to the last civil war in the US.
Well, so much for "domestic tranquility."
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on September 30, 2019, 03:06:59 PM
I invite attention to the last civil war in the US.
Yeah, the last time a largely rural population waged war on its more urban counterpart, it didn't go so well for them. And that was with the benefit of prisoners with jobs.
And you guys looked on the problems in the UK as society breaking down, lol.
Quote from: Hydra009 on September 30, 2019, 03:28:47 PM
Yeah, the last time a largely rural population waged war on its more urban counterpart, it didn't go so well for them. And that was with the benefit of prisoners with jobs.
At least you didn't say "mainframe."
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on September 30, 2019, 03:06:59 PM
I invite attention to the last civil war in the US.
Republican = liberal for their time
Democrat = spawn of goober peas
New civil war? Not with muskets. With nukes.
Yes, the Southerners are just dirt farmers. But now your Yankee factories are in .. China. Gonna threaten the South with nasty tweets thru your smartphones?
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 30, 2019, 03:13:34 PM
Well, so much for "domestic tranquility."
Takes two to tango. I oppose war and violence. But per Bible, "live by sword, die by sword" I would suggest that the US population will get what it deserves, if it insists on it. I am sure the urban Democrats will raise many regiments of Black troops aka Crips and Bloods. And Hispanics too ... MS13.
Quote from: Munch on September 30, 2019, 04:47:00 PM
And you guys looked on the problems in the UK as society breaking down, lol.
Britain's fault. You sent all your religious freaks, criminals, losers here. Have you got your Cavalier costume or Round Head costume yet? We have a written constitution, that limits the power of the various departments ... not made up on the run by Bercow or the UK (EU paid for) Supremes. I would suggest that the Cavalier costume is more fancy ... so it might be more ... your ... style.
If this attitude accelerates, I am contemplating buying weapons to have in my home for the very first time. (I am regretting not taking my first father-in-law's offer of a winchester rifle) I can imagine if shooting actually starts, that it will happen in all 50 states. I don't see it being an easy to follow groupings as in the first Civil War--it will be heavier in some areas than others, but it could easily be in every state.
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 30, 2019, 06:40:47 PM
If this attitude accelerates, I am contemplating buying weapons to have in my home for the very first time. (I am regretting not taking my first father-in-law's offer of a winchester rifle) I can imagine if shooting actually starts, that it will happen in all 50 states. I don't see it being an easy to follow groupings as in the first Civil War--it will be heavier in some areas than others, but it could easily be in every state.
Will these weapons fit into your pseudo-MLK views? Yes, all war plans fail at first contact. As a Independent, I expect to sell tickets to the shootout, maybe refreshments (see first Battle of Bull Run). So I won't need any weapons, just retail equipment, like a kiosk to take credit card charges. Jews are a peaceful and pragmatic people. Kekistanis. We can make shekels off of the Normies and Cuckistanis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Bull_Run
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2UleKAxli0
Quote from: Baruch on September 30, 2019, 06:29:08 PM
Britain's fault. You sent all your religious freaks, criminals, losers here. Have you got your Cavalier costume or Round Head costume yet? We have a written constitution, that limits the power of the various departments ... not made up on the run by Bercow or the UK (EU paid for) Supremes. I would suggest that the Cavalier costume is more fancy ... so it might be more ... your ... style.
Well didn't send them to you they came willingly.. wait, but they were you, so you were their with them .. except you weren't?
Oh but we did send the bad ones to Australia, but that turned out okay since one of them became an avenger and thunder god.
Relevant statutes in US regarding rebellion and sedition ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_and_Sedition_Acts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subversive_activities_registration
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatch_Act_of_1939
The Sedition Act under Wilson was repealed in 1921 (it banned free speech)
Quote from: Munch on September 30, 2019, 04:47:00 PM
And you guys looked on the problems in the UK as society breaking down, lol.
We did? Not me. Even with how stupid the UK has been acting lately, America has always had you guys beat with our amazing stupidity. The Right are a bunch of fascist assholes, projecting all their weaknesses and ill-intent on the Left. They try to take away our rights, under the guise of "personal freedoms." They fight against science, but want to push their religion on children in public schools. They idolize the police and the military because they want a police state. America is a shit country, getting shittier by the year. Trying to argue with them is like trying to reason with narcissists.
Quote from: Blackleaf on September 30, 2019, 09:39:16 PM
We did? Not me. Even with how stupid the UK has been acting lately, America has always had you guys beat with our amazing stupidity. The Right are a bunch of fascist assholes, projecting all their weaknesses and ill-intent on the Left. They try to take away our rights, under the guise of "personal freedoms." They fight against science, but want to push their religion on children in public schools. They idolize the police and the military because they want a police state. America is a shit country, getting shittier by the year. Trying to argue with them is like trying to reason with narcissists.
Or as an old on-line friend who was a Vietnam veteran, who long ago fled to Sweden (1970s) used to say, there are better countries. Move. If people didn't think this, my ancestors would have never troubled coming to N America.
Latest gun study ...
Last place Delaware gun ownership at 5%
First place Alaska gun ownership at 61%
If you plan a violent rebellion ... don't base yourself in Delaware (Biden's state).
(https://i.redd.it/4op655gxlwp31.jpg)
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 01, 2019, 08:52:22 AM
(https://i.redd.it/4op655gxlwp31.jpg)
That bottom picture is what I'd hope for. But you may be surprised at the number of white nationalists that are in both the military and on police forces.
Quote from: Munch on September 30, 2019, 04:47:00 PM
And you guys looked on the problems in the UK as society breaking down, lol.
Well, kind of, I suppose, but there are still a lot of Americans that realized what's happening here too. In a way, we can look at Great Britain, and find some solace in recognizing we are not alone. But don't think for a moment that we enjoy any of it. Nor do we equate what's happening in Britain with what is happening here. I see dysfunction both in society and in our respective governing elites. The combination insures that nothing is permanent or secure. Governments fall, even well established political systems like Rome, the UK, and the US. It begins with people thinking it won't happen. Then as the drift to decay becomes a threat, society reacts with strange solutions that add to the decay, and then the unexpected happens, and it's Paradise Lost.
You Dems can keep Robert E Lee again. Second times a charm. It is precisely the fact that the 1860 election divided the military, that made a civil war possible. About a 50/50 split. I think it would be a terrible thing to ask our military to fire on our own people. That is what the UN black helicopters are for ;-)
The impeachment isn't anything. It is conviction in the Senate that matters. But people keep using the wrong word!
So, the oath of enlistment/appointment is ... to obey the President as CinC ... the officers appointed by the chain of command going up to the President, and to do that in the context of the UCMJ.
Remembering how things were, the last 22 years in the volunteer military (until I just retired this year), our armed forces are very professional compared to the draftees of the 60s. They will do nothing outside the Constitution. So as long as the Constitution isn't ignored, then neither party has anything to worry about. Sorry, no civil war unless the Dems take extraordinary action beyond statute. Are they that desperate if they don't get what they want? Maybe.
Then there are the tweets by Trump implying doing something outside the Constitution. Such orders will not be obeyed. An Article 25 would result. For real, not just because to TDS by psycho Dem officials in Jan 2017.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 01, 2019, 09:02:32 AM
That bottom picture is what I'd hope for. But you may be surprised at the number of white nationalists that are in both the military and on police forces.
And their cohorts will shoot them too, if need. "All enemies, foreign AND domestic."
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 01, 2019, 11:08:23 AM
And their cohorts will shoot them too, if need. "All enemies, foreign AND domestic."
Correct. But Dems or Repubs won't be enemies, unless a constitutional violation occurs. I think that happening is remote. Just because "I hate your guts" doesn't make an enemy under UCMJ. Otherwise all the hippies would have died in the 60s.
At least Robert E Lee was decent enough to consider Lincoln's offer, and changed uniform when he decided to support Virginia instead. Troops firing on each other, in the same uniform, crosses a severe line risking execution if captured. Sometimes even if in a different uniform as some German-Americans in the Wehrmacht found out. Similarly infiltrating Germans caught in US uniform in the Battle of the Bulge.
Quote from: Munch on September 30, 2019, 07:16:23 PM
Well didn't send them to you they came willingly.. wait, but they were you, so you were their with them .. except you weren't?
Yup. We didn't get the ones escaping religious persecution... we got the ones who wanted to
practice religious persecution.
Quote from: trdsf on October 01, 2019, 07:31:10 PM
Yup. We didn't get the ones escaping religious persecution... we got the ones who wanted to practice religious persecution.
Two sides of same coin.
Quote from: Munch on September 30, 2019, 04:47:00 PM
And you guys looked on the problems in the UK as society breaking down, lol.
What a hypocritical attitude. Who in this forum, talked about a 'society break down in UK' other than pr126 who is extreme right wing? You are right wing too. 'Society break down in the UK' is
the right wing bullshit. It's their basic propaganda. This has been going on for decades since the EU. Hence the developments in the last few years. Just before that, media and people posted shocking videos of muslims 'invading' the country, how 1 woman out of 4 will be raped in the next decade which we are entering the last year of... all kinds of hogwash on how the UK societies are under invasion and about the break down...etc.
And yes, breaking a perfectly working order in a 245 thousand km sq island land mass with 65 million people, just because 'old white trash don't like them colours and ethnics; let's keep the cast system referandum' in expense of young generations' wellness and future is a grand failure everyone will make fun of more than seeing it as a 'problem'. Oh but nothing is wrong, right?
Yeah the United States is a shitty country from lot of angles, but you know what,
shit is in the open. Not just because it's a huge land mass to store so much shit, because they point out and call the shit, shit when they can, they pinch and palm the shit. Infact in the US, You can see shit sitting, ruling, coming, going, falling, flying and wandering around in person.
Unlike the UK or Eruope in general. Where thousands of different kinds of shit is buried layers by layers down to the core of every bit of culture, while people pretending that enormous shit cycle doesn't exist, living in a cast system, because just by birth they are the god's gifts on earth. If we could generate energy from the bitter, angry entitlement bullshit of the certain white british class, we would provide free electricity for the country for decades.
So yeah Americans can look down and make fun of the UK, as far as I am concerned, esp. considering after Brexit you will practically be their 51st state, from your health system to what not and who do you think is gonna cover your ass? Oh nobody's talking about this shit up there, right?
Don't you guys think, it's ridiculous to compare a civil war in 19th century with a possible 21st century one?
I was reading a few basic sources on it. Armed militias is a complicated situation in the US. It isn't just a two sided or a 'Constitutional' movement thing, even besides the white supremacists. Yeah it is the name of the traditional movement alright. But it is just ridiculous to think it is tied to any constituional violation to break out.
Also, reading about the general reactions of people to monkey's civil war remarks here and there, it seems people culturally view as if this is a generic old fashioned war between two armed groups? That's insane and probably my impression is wrong.
Doesn't matter who attacks who, the armed forces will do anything to keep order, kill civillians and not tomention under the state of emergency there are lots of things that can be done by an unwanted government. That's how you get real dictatorship instantly. Under a situation like that anything can be done.
pr126 was unique. His preference for uncommented videos. His degree of hysteria. The peculiarities of the UK vs everywhere else. Other than being British, Munch has no point of comparison.
Your sociology is Marxist. Non-Marxists won't approve. The future of Europe was ... how the EUSR would be a successful version of the USSR. A gay Black trans version of the USSR. Both being secular/atheist. The Russians used to say, only the French could make communism work ... because W Europeans are naturally superior over E Europeans.
Is there a problem with Europe in general and GB in particular, being overly polite overly vulnerable to the downside of political correctness? I like your analogy, that in Europe the shit is vertical, a ME tell. The US is young and large ... so the shit is skin deep.
And it is empirically true, that people have irrational fears. Fears of the EU, fears of the US, fears of Muslims, fears of Africans.
The days of GB could call the shots, died quickly after WW II. The first 50 years of the 20th century were the suicide of Europe in general, but of the British Empire in particular. This is perhaps because the Crown was castrated in 1911. An activist monarch might have stopped the war mongers and bureaucrats from destroying everything.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 05, 2019, 04:28:17 AM
Don't you guys think, it's ridiculous to compare a civil war in 19th century with a possible 21st century one?
I was reading a few basic sources on it. Armed militias is a complicated situation in the US. It isn't just a two sided or a 'Constitutional' movement thing, even besides the white supremacist. Yeah it is the name of the traditional movement alright. But it is just ridiculous to think it is tied to any constituional violation to break out.
Also, reading about the reactions of people to monkey's civil war remarks here and there, it seems people culturally view as if this is a generic old fashioned war between two armed groups? That's insane and probably my impression is wrong.
Doesn't matter who attacks who, the armed forces will do anything to keep order, kill civillians and not tomention under the state of emergency there are lots of things that can be done by an unwanted government. That's how you get real dictatorship instantly. Under a situation like that anything can be done.
The armed militias today aren't a problem. They were much stronger in the 1960s, and the KKK lost the war. In 1860 the militias had state sponsorship, were under the authority of state governors. And yes, an intact military (not true in 1860) will enforce order on anyone. The military is very bureaucratic that way.
Baruch, fuck Marxism with you on top of it.
pr126 is one of most traditional, ordinary example of the old generation altright winger brits. Nothing is unique about him. He is not the only one I know either. I know Turkish-Brits, Indian-Brits have been living in the UK for half a century exactly like him...They are all the same.
Armed militias in the US is something far more different and complicated than what it was in 1960s. And guess what? We are not living in 1960s.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 05, 2019, 04:59:40 AM
Baruch, fuck Marxism with you on top of it.
pr126 is one of most traditional, ordinary example of the old generation altright winger brits. Nothing is unique about him. He is not the only one I know either. I know Turkish-Brits, Indian-Brits have been living in the UK for half a century exactly like him...They are all the same.
Armed militias in the US is something far more different and complicated than what it was in 1960s. And guess what? We are not living in 1960s.
I was being neutral. The idea that Europe (W and E) isn't Marxist, is delusional. Yes, pr126 was an old man. Someday you will be an old woman. Make peace ... or you will be the recipient of this agism. And you know as much about the US military or US society as ... I know of the Turkish equivalent. But in particular ... I deny progress, that is the secular religion of this day. But it is as delusional as trans-substantiation.
It's not about the age per se, it is the certain group in that generation. I find hypocritical and disgustingly selfish that being immigrants, they've founded their lives on opportunities provided by THAT system, thrived by it and now they shit on that system work and vote against it. 40 years ago they were really happy about EU. So, the reason? There is no real reason. It's just 'I will have a word against this system, because you think I am old and useless but you will feel my weight.' It's that simple. Nothing else. They are the toxic, fucked up retired man in the building, watching people'S lives and complaining about anything they do, just the heck of it.
With pr126, it is actually worse. He's escaped from Nazi invasion ffs, he was a refugee. And how does he see refugess now running away from war and bloodshed?
I'm from a completely different generation. When I get old, I will be around the same thing, just old. I am not a 23s, I am a 43, how different you think I will be?
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 05, 2019, 04:28:17 AM
Don't you guys think, it's ridiculous to compare a civil war in 19th century with a possible 21st century one?
I was reading a few basic sources on it. Armed militias is a complicated situation in the US. It isn't just a two sided or a 'Constitutional' movement thing, even besides the white supremacists. Yeah it is the name of the traditional movement alright. But it is just ridiculous to think it is tied to any constituional violation to break out.
Also, reading about the general reactions of people to monkey's civil war remarks here and there, it seems people culturally view as if this is a generic old fashioned war between two armed groups? That's insane and probably my impression is wrong.
Doesn't matter who attacks who, the armed forces will do anything to keep order, kill civillians and not tomention under the state of emergency there are lots of things that can be done by an unwanted government. That's how you get real dictatorship instantly. Under a situation like that anything can be done.
It is my impression the right wing/christian/nationalist/white power militias are more sophisticated (and better armed) now than in the past. They are closer knit because of social media--they can draw on many, many more now than in the past. The US armed forces are not a ubiquitous force in the way the members view our society. There are some who fall into the alt. right wing. Where does their true loyalty fall? To the country or to their ideology? If you want to get a flavor of the beliefs of many of these groups (and their strength) watch the current Jimmy Bakker show--he pushes all kinds of end-of-the-world supplies and apparently they sell well enough for him to keep producing more of it. He also is a trump pusher--and his show is not unique. A new civil war (or anything like it) will not mirror The Civil War (southerners are still bent out of shape over it and call it the War of Yankee Agression); it will not be state vs state nor even region vs region. This most likely would be groups within each state vs other groups in the same state; it will be much more of a blur and very messy. I hope to hell my thoughts on this subject are just wrong as hell and I am just a crazy old man making shit up. I really, really hope so.
Just propaganda.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 05, 2019, 09:45:41 AM
... A new civil war (or anything like it) will not mirror The Civil War (southerners are still bent out of shape over it and call it the War of Yankee Agression); it will not be state vs state nor even region vs region. This most likely would be groups within each state vs other groups in the same state; it will be much more of a blur and very messy. I hope to hell my thoughts on this subject are just wrong as hell and I am just a crazy old man making shit up. I really, really hope so.
It's not just about militias, people would go out, attack and kill around unarmed people. attack certain instutions, organisations...they see as 'the enemy'. There would be riots and every kind of atrocities everywhere out of the heat zones. That's why armed forces would be so harsh in the first place. It's civilians targeting civilians, there is no other way for a civil war to happen.
People seem to think it will be like two 'armies' meeting in a spot and having some 'fight' with some rules, you know different unforms and all, starting with a whistle?
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 05, 2019, 05:51:50 AM
It's not about the age per se, it is the certain group in that generation. I find hypocritical and disgustingly selfish that being immigrants, they've founded their lives on opportunities provided by THAT system, thrived by it and now they shit on that system work and vote against it. 40 years ago they were really happy about EU. So, the reason? There is no real reason. It's just 'I will have a word against this system, because you think I am old and useless but you will feel my weight.' It's that simple. Nothing else. They are the toxic, fucked up retired man in the building, watching people'S lives and complaining about anything they do, just the heck of it.
With pr126, it is actually worse. He's escaped from Nazi invasion ffs, he was a refugee. And how does he see refugess now running away from war and bloodshed?
I'm from a completely different generation. When I get old, I will be around the same thing, just old. I am not a 23s, I am a 43, how different you think I will be?
OK, then let Turkey take in a billion Chinese ;-) Have open borders. If you don't you are raaacissst. (sarc).
You aren't American. No reason to love us or what we "ideally" stand for. You do love the modern German Left. Which is fine. Yes, Turkey has a problem with refugees. That was easy to fix ... abandon Nato, join the new Putin Pack, and keep your nose out of Syria. But I suspect Erdogan is playing all sides.
I am somewhat different at 63 than at 43. Much different than at 23. At 23 I still had hope.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 05, 2019, 09:45:41 AM
It is my impression the right wing/christian/nationalist/white power militias are more sophisticated (and better armed) now than in the past. They are closer knit because of social media--they can draw on many, many more now than in the past. The US armed forces are not a ubiquitous force in the way the members view our society. There are some who fall into the alt. right wing. Where does their true loyalty fall? To the country or to their ideology? If you want to get a flavor of the beliefs of many of these groups (and their strength) watch the current Jimmy Bakker show--he pushes all kinds of end-of-the-world supplies and apparently they sell well enough for him to keep producing more of it. He also is a trump pusher--and his show is not unique. A new civil war (or anything like it) will not mirror The Civil War (southerners are still bent out of shape over it and call it the War of Yankee Agression); it will not be state vs state nor even region vs region. This most likely would be groups within each state vs other groups in the same state; it will be much more of a blur and very messy. I hope to hell my thoughts on this subject are just wrong as hell and I am just a crazy old man making shit up. I really, really hope so.
OMG .. the hillbillies have cell phones. Smart-phone-mageddon! Sorry, I know you have Confederates under your bed. You lived down there, I didn't. I certainly wouldn't go all publicly liberal/gay if I lived down there either.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 05, 2019, 10:28:30 AM
Just propaganda.
Will raise a trillion campaign dollars for 2020. Huzzah!
Turkey already has an open border policy. A bad, unhealthy one, but open nonetheless.
Yes, I like Germany's policies, they can slap down and administer 4 million Turks, a population with a polar opposite culture to theirs that makes up is 5% their own. They don't whine, they deal with it. Respect.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 05, 2019, 11:10:41 AM
It's not just about militias, people would go out, attack and kill around unarmed people. attack certain instutions, organisations...they see as 'the enemy'. There would be riots and every kind of atrocities everywhere out of the heat zones. That's why armed forces would be so harsh in the first place. It's civilians targeting civilians, there is no other way for a civil war to happen.
People seem to think it will be like two 'armies' meeting in a spot and having some 'fight' with some rules, you know different unforms and all, starting with a whistle?
Shoe, I know it is not 'just' about militias. And I understand that the militias are civilians dressing up in military gear and weapons. They will kill all who do not agree--it is nothing like two armies facing off against each other. A civil war is called that because civilians are involved. It would be very messy and difficult to keep track of. Wanton destruction.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 05, 2019, 11:26:48 AM
Shoe, I know it is not 'just' about militias. And I understand that the militias are civilians dressing up in military gear and weapons. They will kill all who do not agree--it is nothing like two armies facing off against each other. A civil war is called that because civilians are involved. It would be very messy and difficult to keep track of. Wanton destruction.
Oh, I didn't mean that way. I mean people who are armed, but not a part of the militias or even the 'war' would go and commit crimes and atrocities.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 05, 2019, 11:26:48 AMA civil war is called that because civilians are involved.
No.
"A civil war, also known as an intrastate war in polemology,[1] is a war between organized groups within the same state or country. The aim of one side may be to take control of the country or a region, to achieve independence for a region or to change government policies.[2] The term is a calque of the Latin bellum civile which was used to refer to the various civil wars of the Roman Republic in the 1st century BC.
A civil war is a high-intensity conflict, often involving regular armed forces, that is sustained, organized and large-scale. Civil wars may result in large numbers of casualties and the consumption of significant resources.[3] Most modern civil wars involve intervention by outside powers. "
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 05, 2019, 11:39:34 AM
No.
"A civil war, also known as an intrastate war in polemology,[1] is a war between organized groups within the same state or country. The aim of one side may be to take control of the country or a region, to achieve independence for a region or to change government policies.[2] The term is a calque of the Latin bellum civile which was used to refer to the various civil wars of the Roman Republic in the 1st century BC.
A civil war is a high-intensity conflict, often involving regular armed forces, that is sustained, organized and large-scale. Civil wars may result in large numbers of casualties and the consumption of significant resources.[3] Most modern civil wars involve intervention by outside powers. "
LOL, this is
exactly what I meant up there by some people seem to think that civil war is some defined battle between some sides with defined circumstances. Like some football league, right?
It's defined like that in sources? Ah, it is OK. We were worrying for nothing then. Just let the boys get it out from their systems, eh. You American idiot.
I've been studying military history since 1966. Amateurs have their own definitions, don't they.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 05, 2019, 12:15:52 PM
I've been studying military history since 1966. Amateurs have their own definitions, don't they.
Ah, that explains it then. Because wars -of any kind- don't happen in reality as they are 'studied' or 'defined' in some written source. And nobody needs to study military history to comprehend that.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 05, 2019, 12:26:07 PM
Ah, that explains it then. Because wars -of any kind- don't happen in reality as they are 'studied' or 'defined' in some written source. And nobody needs to study military history to comprehend that.
You are living up to your nick.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 05, 2019, 11:30:19 AM
Oh, I didn't mean that way. I mean people who are armed, but not a part of the militias or even the 'war' would go and commit crimes and atrocities.
Terrorists aren't a Civil War. That started before the Civil War, in Bloody Kansas.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 05, 2019, 12:34:39 PM
You are living up to your nick.
Yeah, I think you are full of shit, so I must be drunk.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 05, 2019, 11:39:34 AM
No.
"A civil war, also known as an intrastate war in polemology,[1] is a war between organized groups within the same state or country. The aim of one side may be to take control of the country or a region, to achieve independence for a region or to change government policies.[2] The term is a calque of the Latin bellum civile which was used to refer to the various civil wars of the Roman Republic in the 1st century BC.
A civil war is a high-intensity conflict, often involving regular armed forces, that is sustained, organized and large-scale. Civil wars may result in large numbers of casualties and the consumption of significant resources.[3] Most modern civil wars involve intervention by outside powers. "
Yes, I agree with your definition. What I was trying to impart is that in this case--right here and right now--what trump and his followers call a civil war would be more like country wide guerilla warfare than our last Civil War. Anyway--do you think I am like Chicken Little--running around yelling about the sky falling??
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 05, 2019, 12:44:34 PM
Yes, I agree with your definition. What I was trying to impart is that in this case--right here and right now--what trump and his followers call a civil war would be more like country wide guerilla warfare than our last Civil War. Anyway--do you think I am like Chicken Little--running around yelling about the sky falling??
In 1970 I was running up and down a river in South East Asia with four or five other sailors. We had a variety of small arms, and an 81 mm mortar and 105mm recoiless rifle. But even better, I had a radio. And sixteen B-52s so far above me I could barely see them. When I used the right code they would dropped their shit where I told them to drop it.
A bunch of drunks with guns wouldn't stand any more chance than a bunch of my fraternal socialist brothers in black pajamas.
If the right-wing militias could properly organize, with social media, they might try blockading the left-wing cities so they can't get food or other supplies. They could damage the airports enough that cities can't get supplies in by air, either. I don't know what might happen if they tried that. But all the left-wing cities are surrounded by right-wing rural populations, which are primarily Trump fans. So we could be looking at a war of siege mentality.
I find it interesting that the first civil war is called "the war of Northern aggression" when it was the Confederates who fired the first shot, at Ft. Sumpter.
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 05, 2019, 01:21:36 PM
If the right-wing militias could properly organize, with social media, they might try blockading the left-wing cities so they can't get food or other supplies. They could damage the airports enough that cities can't get supplies in by air, either. I don't know what might happen if they tried that. But all the left-wing cities are surrounded by right-wing rural populations, which are primarily Trump fans. So we could be looking at a war of siege mentality.
A blockade requires resources, organization, and discipline. See "The Anaconda Plan".
QuoteI find it interesting that the first civil war is called "the war of Northern aggression" when it was the Confederates who fired the first shot, at Ft. Sumpter.
Sumpter was a "Yankee" or "Federal" fort in South Carolina. They had been told they weren't wanted there.
You live in a country, where people, under ordinary circumstances prepare to 'attack' and trumple each other to death, starting to wait from 5 am in the morning in groups of hundreds to buy a big high tech TV or the latest play station on a day called the Black Friday (same everywhere, just taking yours as the original source of the tradition), a place where riots and lootings of supermarkets break out just because of a black out less than 12 hours, where people declare themselves messiahs, illegally getting armed big enough to support a major taliban troop, get into open combat with federal forces, just a dispute between motorbike gangs can generate hundreds in death polls, drug/gang wars produced how many thousands of deaths again? You have urban zones collapsed under crime and mafia, most importantly you have poverty; you have poor masses watching the filthy rich in the most competitive culture humans produced, an isolated culture of masses at the bottom of the country dreaming themselves at the top of the world, a few as stupid as soup generations believing they are entitled to have everything with a free ride and they are armed. That's just the fraction of it.
All these years, nearly a decade, you have kept telling me 'there are more weapons in this country than people'. Official US population is 327 millions. That is guns more than three hundred and twenty seven millions. Where are they? How many unregistered people are armed? A civil war is the most fundamental, collective fear of your culture which makes everything more trigger happy, fucked up even more.
What definiton of civil war are you talking about?
Hopefully, the idiot is right and it is just a fear propaganda, because otherwise the best thing you have is the millions of kms of open space and six and a half millions of kms of roads.
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 05, 2019, 01:21:36 PM
If the right-wing militias could properly organize, with social media, they might try blockading the left-wing cities so they can't get food or other supplies. They could damage the airports enough that cities can't get supplies in by air, either. I don't know what might happen if they tried that. But all the left-wing cities are surrounded by right-wing rural populations, which are primarily Trump fans. So we could be looking at a war of siege mentality.
Those rural areas aren't as lock-step as you might think. Friends of mine live out in the middle of nowhere, a good twenty miles out of the city, and around here cities don't tail off slowly, they just stop and all of a sudden you're in rural America.
In 2015-6 there were
nothing but Trump signs out that way, even during the primaries, and voted for Lord Dampnut by nearly 30 percentage points over Hillary in the election.
Last time I was out there, about a month ago, there were no Trump signs yet... but one house had two cars in the drive with bumperstickers for Democrat Tim Ryan. Putting a D behind your name in that county is traditionally political suicide; you might as well run an ad saying "Hi, I'm running for Congress so I can force you to gay-marry a vegan illegal immigrant Islamic terrorist. Actually, I don't even want the office, I just wanted to waste money putting myself on TV. I'm so and so, and I endorse this message."
Even granting that Ryan is probably the most moderate candidate in the race, that someone in this area is willing to look at any Democrat
at all is telling.
Voting Republican doesn't mean they'll become traitors.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 05, 2019, 12:57:27 PM
In 1970 I was running up and down a river in South East Asia with four or five other sailors. We had a variety of small arms, and an 81 mm mortar and 105mm recoiless rifle. But even better, I had a radio. And sixteen B-52s so far above me I could barely see them. When I used the right code they would dropped their shit where I told them to drop it.
A bunch of drunks with guns wouldn't stand any more chance than a bunch of my fraternal socialist brothers in black pajamas.
I hope you are right! And I hope I'm wrong!
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 05, 2019, 02:59:38 PM
I hope you are right! And I hope I'm wrong!
I think it was Beaver Creek, a few years back, where the "militia" flexed its one muscle and became a laughing stock.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 05, 2019, 03:01:24 PM
I think it was Beaver Creek, a few years back, where the "militia" flexed its one muscle and became a laughing stock.
I missed that one.
I just tried googling it, and couldn't find it. There was something about a woman who tried to go from Alaska to Canada carrying a gun, but that was about it, other than revolutionary war stuff.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 05, 2019, 03:04:25 PM
I missed that one.
Yah made me google it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Malheur_National_Wildlife_Refuge
Ah, that one. Yeah, I remember that from a couple of years back. They were treated with kid gloves until they went just over the line and overstayed their welcome.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 05, 2019, 02:56:22 PM
Voting Republican doesn't mean they'll become traitors.
Your right, I think it means they already are.
(Only 98% hyperbole)
Those who voted for Trump in 2016 were just dupes. Those who vote for Trump in 2020 will be traitors.
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 05, 2019, 03:30:30 PM
Ah, that one. Yeah, I remember that from a couple of years back. They were treated with kid gloves until they went just over the line and overstayed their welcome.
Plan was to not make them martyrs. Worked. They wound up looking like drunks with guns. Inevitably.
Quote from: Shiranu on October 05, 2019, 03:34:25 PM
Your right, I think it means they already are.
(Only 98% hyperbole)
I swore an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign or domestics. I have not disavowed that oath. (I'm also smart enough to leave the headbreaking to younger men.)
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 05, 2019, 02:56:22 PM
Voting Republican doesn't mean they'll become traitors.
Party doesn't tell you much. Usually villains don't have a Big V on their foreheads. Not even Democrats ;-) The leadership of the parties .. I am less sanguine. Those who are close to the cookie jar, usually are crummy.
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 05, 2019, 03:41:50 PM
Those who voted for Trump in 2016 were just dupes. Those who vote for Trump in 2020 will be traitors.
Sorry, you aren't the true Messiah. So your word is null and void.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 05, 2019, 03:49:27 PM
Plan was to not make them martyrs. Worked. They wound up looking like drunks with guns. Inevitably.
One idiot occupier died. Never flash a gun in the face of the fuzz.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 05, 2019, 12:44:34 PM
Yes, I agree with your definition. What I was trying to impart is that in this case--right here and right now--what trump and his followers call a civil war would be more like country wide guerilla warfare than our last Civil War. Anyway--do you think I am like Chicken Little--running around yelling about the sky falling??
You already saw this from 1981 to 1995. Mostly in Oklahoma and Texas. Hinkley to Koresh to McVeigh.
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 05, 2019, 01:21:36 PM
If the right-wing militias could properly organize, with social media, they might try blockading the left-wing cities so they can't get food or other supplies. They could damage the airports enough that cities can't get supplies in by air, either. I don't know what might happen if they tried that. But all the left-wing cities are surrounded by right-wing rural populations, which are primarily Trump fans. So we could be looking at a war of siege mentality.
I find it interesting that the first civil war is called "the war of Northern aggression" when it was the Confederates who fired the first shot, at Ft. Sumpter.
Don't worry, soon only Black Hispanic surnamed gay trannies will be allowed to use Facebook ;-)
Sorry, takes two to tango. Both sides had issues, in every war. GB declared war on Germany, both times. GB isn't innocent. Neither is Lincoln. But Lincoln was the most fair aggressor we have seen (both inaugural speeches). People here are closer to Radical Republicans, who were far more violent than Lincoln. Think John Brown's holy crusade.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 05, 2019, 03:26:16 PM
Yah made me google it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Malheur_National_Wildlife_Refuge
Oh, I remembered that one.
This is not about the possibility of militias being successful. Is there anyone - with two brain cells to rub together- who thinks they can? They, themselves know that very well. They talk that way, because first it's free and then because if you don't play the part, any cosplay sucks. Nobody is that stupid.
The big civilian problem is the first social media generations who are not so young anymore and are in certain positions everywhere around the world. Are you aware that these generations all resemble each other more than any other previous generations, doesn't matter what culture or country they are born and live in? Generations who grew up without social media madness are far more different from each other. Different from each other as individuals in the same culture and generation, and different as generation groups in different cultures.
But social media generations are not. They are relatively the same characters. Most of them know the world form social media. Their failures, victimhoods, successes, dreams, fears, beliefs, goals; personalities are made of out from the ideas, propagandas pitched to them in youtube, reddit, 4chan... they are things they 'bought'. Things that are manifactured. Even their nihilism is not something they earned by life experience, it is a series of copy pasted products with different colours and shapes designed for various target masses.
They are incredibly visual. They percieve life as series of pictures to go through. Most of them will never even reach near the middle class. They are lonely and prone to join in groups just to feel to belong something. They are aimless. Their historical perspective is based on fiction in extremes. They have started to go through the kind of depressions and anger at high school age that previous generations reached over 30 in bad life situations. They are everywhere.
Old generations knew that something 'watched' or 'said' and something done or lived through are very different things in life, even when they were young. Because there was no other way. These adults don't. They didn't grow up with grey areas, but with only black and white. They see life that way, because they think it is survival for them.
This is why every situation involving an armed conflict and their consequences will be far more different and dangerous in this age. So different infact, the previous ones in centuries apart will look closer in retrospect. This is not just about the US. It's about everywhere. We live under the threat of civil war too. The president here have said the same things. There are militias here tied to him closely. But that's not the case in the US. It's different in the US. Even a serious attempt of a possible civil war in the US would have dire consequences on the world in general.
I'm sure you are aware of mass protests around the world in very different regions with different problems. This right leaning policies of the recent years will face a resistence haven't seen before. Doesn't matter what those thug leaders throw around against glabalism, nothing is gonna turn back people-culture wise. And when you see it that way, one thing is left to think, 'oh then a lot of civilians will die'. Yeah but the thing is, this time a lot of civilians will kill too.
We are living through a transition era. Odds are it won't arrive anywhere peacefully.
After more than a half century of studying history I can say that the future will not live up or down to our expectations.
Even if Right violence escalated to the 1980s level, that really is small beans. Much smaller than 9/11.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 06, 2019, 06:35:16 AM
After more than a half century of studying history I can say that the future will not live up or down to our expectations.
From personal observation I can say that is true.
Of course future will feel like nothing has changed, change does not happen suddenly. People get used to everything and forget about everything, what they see as abnormal becomes their normal.
But the difference between now and 20 years ago is huge. 10 years ago is huge.
Only if that's a big chunk of time for the observer.
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 05, 2019, 03:41:50 PM
Those who voted for Trump in 2016 were just dupes. Those who vote for Trump in 2020 will be traitors.
Treason is defined in the Constitution; those who vote for the Orange Disaster Area are not by that definition traitors.
They are, however, at least one of the following: bigots, racists, right-wing nut jobs, arch-plutocrat economic libertarians, thundering idiots, and/or easily duped.
Quote from: trdsf on October 08, 2019, 08:57:44 AM
Treason is defined in the Constitution; those who vote for the Orange Disaster Area are not by that definition traitors.
They are, however, at least one of the following: bigots, racists, right-wing nut jobs, arch-plutocrat economic libertarians, thundering idiots, and/or easily duped.
Ah, you've met my cousins.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 06, 2019, 10:39:12 AM
Of course future will feel like nothing has changed, change does not happen suddenly. People get used to everything and forget about everything, what they see as abnormal becomes their normal.
But the difference between now and 20 years ago is huge. 10 years ago is huge.
I am a lot older than 20 years ago. Prove me wrong.
Nostalgia is catching up to you, old woman. Wait until nursing home.
Quote from: trdsf on October 08, 2019, 08:57:44 AM
Treason is defined in the Constitution; those who vote for the Orange Disaster Area are not by that definition traitors.
They are, however, at least one of the following: bigots, racists, right-wing nut jobs, arch-plutocrat economic libertarians, thundering idiots, and/or easily duped.
George Washington was a traitor. They all were. They should have hung themselves and saved the British the trouble.
Quote from: trdsf on October 08, 2019, 08:57:44 AM
Treason is defined in the Constitution; those who vote for the Orange Disaster Area are not by that definition traitors.
They are, however, at least one of the following: bigots, racists, right-wing nut jobs, arch-plutocrat economic libertarians, thundering idiots, and/or easily duped.
QuoteTreason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
Trump is a domestic enemy of the USA, as far as I can tell. So "adhering" to Trump, or giving him "aid and comfort" by voting for him is, as far as I can tell, treason.
He has certainly called for things that would violate the Constitution. Time to get Ma Deuce out again.
I kind of doubt civil war is in the cards for us. It's very messy to begin with and not a lot of people are going to care one damned bit for the extreme inconvenience it might bring to all of us.
Just imagine the outrage if some group of wannabe militia members tries to disrupt traffic even. Disrupt my phone service? Make buying groceries difficult? That's when the public at large will decide enough is enough. Although it's somewhat perceived that young people and "liberals" won't fight the truth is once our way of life is completely disrupted I think you're going to find out just how many really are willing to take up arms to defend everything they've grown up with. While many people are dissatisfied with how our government works I still don't think that the masses are going to sit around just waiting to be ruled by some ruthless dictator.
The one good thing about there being lots of guns in the US is that the lunatic fringe is actually outgunned by a wild margin.
Quote from: trdsf on October 08, 2019, 08:57:44 AM
Treason is defined in the Constitution; those who vote for the Orange Disaster Area are not by that definition traitors.
They are, however, at least one of the following: bigots, racists, right-wing nut jobs, arch-plutocrat economic libertarians, thundering idiots, and/or easily duped.
Where is Communism authorized in the Constitution? And nobody, not even Jefferson Davis, was ever convicted of treason. Sorry, if you are unhappy in country X, please go to country Y, don't try some futile revolution. My ancestors left shitty Europe behind, they didn't stay to become Nazis or Commies.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 08, 2019, 04:05:56 PM
He has certainly called for things that would violate the Constitution. Time to get Ma Deuce out again.
How many hippies did you hunt down?
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 08, 2019, 01:20:55 PM
Trump is a domestic enemy of the USA, as far as I can tell. So "adhering" to Trump, or giving him "aid and comfort" by voting for him is, as far as I can tell, treason.
I can
almost go that far, but I tend to tread delicately with regard to the Constitution. And my fellow citizens, unfortunately, have a perfectly legitimate right to vote against their own best interests.
There's a much stronger case for violation of the Emoluments Clause, and in any case, the only legal remedy while he's still infesting the White House is impeachment, followed by conviction in the Senate -- to say nothing of the public declaration of obstruction of justice by his refusal to coöperate with House subpoenas.
Once out of office, then he's subject to the regular course of federal, state and local law.
He's subject to the regular laws now, but the executive branch controls all the law enforcement this country has, and the DOJ is in his pocket, so he gets away with crimes for which the rest of us would spend life in prison.
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 10, 2019, 01:14:00 PM
He's subject to the regular laws now, but the executive branch controls all the law enforcement this country has, and the DOJ is in his pocket, so he gets away with crimes for which the rest of us would spend life in prison.
Didn't Barr say that a sitting president can't be tried for the breaking of any law?
That's not a law, though, only a DOJ memo. That position is not anywhere in the Constitution.
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 10, 2019, 01:14:00 PM
He's subject to the regular laws now, but the executive branch controls all the law enforcement this country has, and the DOJ is in his pocket, so he gets away with crimes for which the rest of us would spend life in prison.
I didn't say he wasn't subject to the law. I said until out of office he wasn't subject to the ordinary course of civil and criminal law. While in office, the House is the only grand jury that can indict him (via impeachment). Remember that Leon Jaworsky had to talk his grand jury out of issuing an indictment against Richard Nixon, not on the grounds that Nixon wasn't subject to the law, but that the House was the Constitutionally mandated body to issue that, and the Senate the Constitutionally mandated jury.
The point is not that a sitting president is above the law, but that there is a specific process laid out for dealing with a lawbreaking president.
Federal judge knocks DOJ stance that sitting president can't be indicted (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/464643-federal-judge-knocks-doj-stance-that-sitting-president-cant-be)
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 10, 2019, 02:08:54 PM
Federal judge knocks DOJ stance that sitting president can't be indicted (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/464643-federal-judge-knocks-doj-stance-that-sitting-president-cant-be)
Oh, now this will be interesting to follow -- thanks for the link! I'll have to see if there's any analysis on SCotUS Watch, because whoever loses the Appeals Court ruling will definitely appeal the ruling if it's not otherwise mooted by then.
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 10, 2019, 01:14:00 PM
He's subject to the regular laws now, but the executive branch controls all the law enforcement this country has, and the DOJ is in his pocket, so he gets away with crimes for which the rest of us would spend life in prison.
What was ex-President Clinton doing on the tarmac with Atty Gen in July 2016? Yes, justice is very unequal. Get used to it.
Quote from: trdsf on October 10, 2019, 02:00:25 PM
I didn't say he wasn't subject to the law. I said until out of office he wasn't subject to the ordinary course of civil and criminal law. While in office, the House is the only grand jury that can indict him (via impeachment). Remember that Leon Jaworsky had to talk his grand jury out of issuing an indictment against Richard Nixon, not on the grounds that Nixon wasn't subject to the law, but that the House was the Constitutionally mandated body to issue that, and the Senate the Constitutionally mandated jury.
The point is not that a sitting president is above the law, but that there is a specific process laid out for dealing with a lawbreaking president.
Then how come Bill and Hillary aren't in jail? They aren't in office.
Bill Clinton - genocide against Iraqi children
George W Bush - genocide against Iraqi adults
Barak Obama - genocide against Libya, Syria, Ukraine … with able assistance by Hillary Clinton
WHO GIVES A FUCK WHAT CLINTON DID THEN? THIS IS NOW!
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 10, 2019, 06:29:40 PM
WHO GIVES A FUCK WHAT CLINTON DID THEN? THIS IS NOW!
And $&%^#$%& you to. TDS is strong in this one. Carefully protect the young Jedi from him! Never trust anyone named Anakin.
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 10, 2019, 06:29:40 PM
WHO GIVES A FUCK WHAT CLINTON DID THEN? THIS IS NOW!
"What about Clinton" and "what about Obama" are all he has to offer. I just skip over his posts when politics are involved.
Well, the short answer to the quesdtion of 'what about Clinton or Obama' is that nobody wanted to call them 'King' or 'God', I guess. Is that enough?
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 11, 2019, 03:15:09 AM
Well, the short answer to the quesdtion of 'what about Clinton or Obama' is that nobody wanted to call them 'King' or 'God', I guess. Is that enough?
The US is based on false messiahs. Washington god, Lincoln god, FDR god … you have no idea that the US is totally evil. Most fraudulent, most materialist, most violent society ever.
I favor kings (for GB) and military dictators otherwise. Death to republics, death to democracies. Prove me wrong. The Amish will be the only survivors … thank G-d. And Hasids and Natives.
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 11, 2019, 02:39:15 AM
"What about Clinton" and "what about Obama" are all he has to offer. I just skip over his posts when politics are involved.
Arrest all politicians. Death camps for their supporters (voters). Reeducation Uigher style. Buy more Chinese shit. Is that a good summary of how the US is totally evil. Also, feminists kill more of their own children. Pre and post birth.
Voted for Obama twice. So disappointed he didn't kill all the White people. Obama could have at least harvest their organs, like China does with Falung Gong. Buy anything Chinese, and you support oppression of Uighers, Tibet and HK. Burn in hell bourgeoisie.
We are talking about caling the president in office 'King' or God' in the 21st century. Not people who have been dead for more than a hundred years. When did Roosevelt die? 40s? It's nowhere near idolising a dead historical character. These people rerally do believe in this and they are in charge, it is not some crazy fandomship to laugh about. Same thing goes about the president over here. There is a name for it. It's not just them but also their followers believe they are above the laws, everything. It is not something else when it happens in the US. It's the same thing everywhere.
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 11, 2019, 02:39:15 AM
"What about Clinton" and "what about Obama" are all he has to offer. I just skip over his posts when politics are involved.
Funny thing about whataboutism -- if you're saying it's okay because someone else did it, then you're just saying it's okay and have no business bitching about someone else doing it. And if you're saying it was wrong when they did it, you have a responsibility to be against it when it's happening now. And when you just stop at "what about..." as if that excuses anything, then you're nothing but a hypocrite.
So what about Clinton? Well, they
did impeach him--on charges so piss-poor they couldn't even manage a majority in the GOP-controlled Senate, much less anything remotely approaching conviction. And what about Obama? An even more hostile Congress than Clinton faced never even seriously offered an impeachment inquiry, much less an indictment in the House.
The only 'what about' I'm interested in is
what are we going to do
about the crook infesting our White House right now. "But what about xxx?!?!?" is nothing more than a desperate flailing "HEY LOOK OVER THERE", and we're not going to fall for it.
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 11, 2019, 02:39:15 AM
"What about Clinton" and "what about Obama" are all he has to offer. I just skip over his posts when politics are involved.
Yeah, must maintain sanity...
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 11, 2019, 04:41:48 AM
We are talking about caling the president in office 'King' or God' in the 21st century. Not people who have been dead for more than a hundred years. When did Roosevelt die? 40s? It's nowhere near idolising a dead historical character. These people rerally do believe in this and they are in charge, it is not some crazy fandomship to laugh about. Same thing goes about the president over here. There is a name for it. It's not just them but also their followers believe they are above the laws, everything. It is not something else when it happens in the US. It's the same thing everywhere.
There are no monarchists in the US, except me, and only on behalf of the UK ;-) The Dems coronated Hillary ... but I will admit that I never liked the Clinton family circus (Hillary isn't queen yet), Bush family circus, the Gore family circus (also rans), the Kennedy family circus (cut short by assassination of Bobby). So far we are spared President Chelsea.
Trump will step down in 2021 or 2025. The question will be, will Hillary have to save the 2020 Dem convention using super-delegates pledged in perpetuity to "Her Highness"? The other question will be, will there be any Dem leaders outside of Guantanamo running in 2024? I am happy with 8 years of President Pence after that ... just to see the water supply restored thru Liberal tears.
All Americans are above all laws. We are Exceptional. Test that at your peril, under-menschen.
George Washington did it, so all Dems but no Repubs get to do the same, in perpetuity. That is to say ... treason.
Admiral McRaven who I otherwise admire said ... and another 4 star general concurred on another recent occasion ...
“If President Trump doesn’t demonstrate the leadership that America needs, then it is time for a new person in the Oval Office†- Admiral William McRaven in NYT
So as per my wishes, we are moving toward military dictatorship. I don't see Admiral McRaven supporting Nancy Pelosi.
Nor do you see him supporting a military dictatorship. Except in your fevered imagination, of course.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 23, 2019, 08:56:06 AM
Nor do you see him supporting a military dictatorship. Except in your fevered imagination, of course.
The cultural divide of the volunteer professional military grows every year from the rest of the population. Particularly as sons replace fathers in the same profession. A kshatriyas caste. This isn't the draft military of the 60s anymore. A much better force, but there are consequences.
Civilians shouldn't be able to vote. As per Starship Troopers.
Crap. Another topic you have no hesitation about expounding on without any knowledge of the matter.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 23, 2019, 12:55:51 PM
Crap. Another topic you have no hesitation about expounding on without any knowledge of the matter.
I worked with the military for 32 years. I worked closely with people in uniform, every work day, for 22 years (with current force). How relevant is your Vietnam experience? 50 years ago?
Whether civilians should vote .. is an opinion. You can have a different opinion. But my political experience says ...
And of course, if the military is Left, then ending civilian rule, won't end the Left. But like in Chile, it did set it back a bit.
I worked for the five sided puzzle box up to three years ago. I do appreciate the input of a part-timer, of course.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 23, 2019, 04:33:22 PM
I worked for the five sided puzzle box up to three years ago. I do appreciate the input of a part-timer, of course.
OK, forgot that. I was on-call 24x7 for 22 years. Then civil war then. I would prefer military order over chaos of post apocalypse drug gangs. A nation of men just like the new lead in Joker. The women all like Harley Quinn.
The other civil war ... Cavaliers vs Roundheads ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKej2FYrKSA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwuUM5fQuWo
Well, he is Jewish ... and we control the World.
Bring what? The picnic basket? What about Yogi and Booboo? There is no profit in Republicans shooting Democrats. That is the primary reason it won't happen. Not because Democrats can deflect bullets like Superman.
I was declared KIA-BNR twice.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 27, 2019, 09:15:44 AM
I was declared KIA-BNR twice.
So after being dead twice, given two resurrections, your record is better than Jesus ;-) Either that or you are a cat.
Quote from: Baruch on October 27, 2019, 11:44:45 AM
So after being dead twice, given two resurrections, your record is better than Jesus ;-) Either that or you are a cat.
Mom was somewhat skeptical when she got the second telegram.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 27, 2019, 12:18:58 PM
Mom was somewhat skeptical when she got the second telegram.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5dBdlZTvRY
I had a combat knife, from a young American who didn't come back, that his mother donated to my grandparents, who gave it to me, in the 60s.
Quote from: Baruch on October 26, 2019, 08:43:51 PM
Well, he is Jewish ... and we control the World.
What do you mean "we," paleface?
;-)
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 31, 2019, 01:54:36 PM
What do you mean "we," paleface?
;-)
Only one true Jew. I am he. Bow down and worship me ;-)