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News & General Discussion => News Stories and Current Events => Topic started by: drunkenshoe on August 15, 2019, 04:11:33 AM

Title: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: drunkenshoe on August 15, 2019, 04:11:33 AM
LOL, apparently, a 2300 years old tomb in Marmaris, now recognised as the tomb of the ancient boxing legend Diagoras, have been mistaken as a tomb of a 'holy man' or a saint for a very long time and people, esp. locals have visited and prayed there for centuries. In 70s, after a newspaper reported that it was not a holy figure, it got looted but the tradition didn't die. Until a few days ago. You'd think this would provide some perspective,lol.

Probably, it was raided long time ago imo though. Considering the age of the tomb, old looters only looked for gold and precious things, the idea that the simple objects in an ancient Greek athlete's tomb would make money is relatively new. Also they are too many tombs like this in Anatolia. I mean, it can't be the first raid. They wouldn't know what it is and they are not going to stop, because it is 'holy'.

https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/mistaken-belief-turkish-blessings-olympic-boxer-tomb-021915
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Baruch on August 15, 2019, 08:01:16 AM
In the ME and North Africa, there are Muslim saints tombs, which are revered, though Salafis oppose it).  So is an easy mistake to do, once you have a Muslim population in the area.  If it is a tomb of Diagoras, this athlete wes one of the characters highlighted in a video recreation of the ancient Olympic games I saw a couple years ago.  It told the story of all winners at the games that year.

I have been to Olympia, during my Greek tour.  Thought it was an impressive ruin.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Cavebear on August 15, 2019, 08:08:43 AM
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In the ME and North Africa, there are Muslim saints tombs, which are revered, though Salafis oppose it).  So is an easy mistake to do, once you have a Muslim population in the area.  If it is a tomb of Diagoras, this athlete wes one of the characters highlighted in a video recreation of the ancient Olympic games I saw a couple years ago.  It told the story of all winners at the games that year.

I have been to Olympia, during my Greek tour.  Thought it was an impressive ruin.

The instant I saw drunkenshoe's post, I knew to look for yours.  You are predictable.  Any statement by ANYONE will get a criticism from you.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Baruch on August 15, 2019, 08:31:07 AM
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The instant I saw drunkenshoe's post, I knew to look for yours.  You are predictable.  Any statement by ANYONE will get a criticism from you.

Not every post is a criticism.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Cavebear on August 15, 2019, 10:51:19 AM
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Not every post is a criticism.

OK, you probably said something nice to someone else sometime.  Not that I recall it though...
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: drunkenshoe on August 15, 2019, 02:14:59 PM
I thought it is funny because Diagoras was an athlete. Otherwise, muslims known to pray at saints' tombs and by that I mean Christian Saints. 
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Unbeliever on August 15, 2019, 02:17:49 PM
Does Islam even have "saints"?

The tomb of Jesus that everyone worships at never held Jesus' body, but no one cares, since it's "traditional" to just accept the story as it's been handed down. Makes 'em feel better, I guess.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Cavebear on August 15, 2019, 02:32:05 PM
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Does Islam even have "saints"?

The tomb of Jesus that everyone worships at never held Jesus' body, but no one cares, since it's "traditional" to just accept the story as it's been handed down. Makes 'em feel better, I guess.

My understanding is that Moslems don't have "saints" in the sense an adherent can pray to them for assistance like Christian Catholics do.  But there is a sense that all the dead adherents who are saved are somehow "saintlike".
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Baruch on August 15, 2019, 05:27:34 PM
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OK, you probably said something nice to someone else sometime.  Not that I recall it though...

I would give you many more kudos, but you are too shy, girlish ... to accept them.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Baruch on August 15, 2019, 05:28:12 PM
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I thought it is funny because Diagoras was an athlete. Otherwise, muslims known to pray at saints' tombs and by that I mean Christian Saints.

Medieval Judaism did the same thing with Kabbalah masters.  Safed in particular.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Baruch on August 15, 2019, 05:29:38 PM
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My understanding is that Moslems don't have "saints" in the sense an adherent can pray to them for assistance like Christian Catholics do.  But there is a sense that all the dead adherents who are saved are somehow "saintlike".

No.  Islam has had many faces over 1400 years.  Until a hundred years ago, the current Salafism would have been a heresy.  Saint worship was the norm, just like in Catholic countries.  But now everything is seen in that light.  Like you can't see Judaism without modern Israel in the middle of it.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Shiranu on August 15, 2019, 07:21:47 PM
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LOL, apparently, a 2300 years old tomb in Marmaris, now recognised as the tomb of the ancient boxing legend Diagoras, have been mistaken as a tomb of a 'holy man' or a saint for a very long time and people, esp. locals have visited and prayed there for centuries. In 70s, after a newspaper reported that it was not a holy figure, it got looted but the tradition didn't die. Until a few days ago. You'd think this would provide some perspective,lol.

Probably, it was raided long time ago imo though. Considering the age of the tomb, old looters only looked for gold and precious things, the idea that the simple objects in an ancient Greek athlete's tomb would make money is relatively new. Also they are too many tombs like this in Anatolia. I mean, it can't be the first raid. They wouldn't know what it is and they are not going to stop, because it is 'holy'.

https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/mistaken-belief-turkish-blessings-olympic-boxer-tomb-021915


I mean, he was something of a "holy man" (if you count how mythological Greek heroes and athletes were)... just uh, to the wrong gods ;). Think Allah might have gotten a bit jealous and booked them on a one-way trip to damnation?

On a semi-related note that I was literally just talking to my mom about 5 minutes ago, and spent all day looking at, Turkey really is full of old Hellenic/pre-Greek tombs and ruins that no one (outside of Turkey, and probably inside as well) seems to know about... and that have never been touched by archaeologists.

Would you happen to know if many of these ruins are open to the public? The fact that they are just near little villages and have never been touched by archaeologists seems to suggest that no one actually cares they are there... and it would be cool to visit some ruins that are ruined by tourists or a paid experience.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Mike Cl on August 15, 2019, 07:31:11 PM
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I thought it is funny because Diagoras was an athlete. Otherwise, muslims known to pray at saints' tombs and by that I mean Christian Saints.
Well, hell, christians will pray to anything--some toast with jesus' face on it.  A knuckle bone of a 'saint'.  A place where someone saw or was spoken to by jesus, god, mary, or whatever.......................(And christians are not idol worshipers--right??!)  Do muslims do the same?
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Unbeliever on August 15, 2019, 07:37:09 PM


http://mentalfloss.com/article/15587/religious-pareidolia-quiz



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaPzCOV2Jlc
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Baruch on August 16, 2019, 01:22:17 AM
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I mean, he was something of a "holy man" (if you count how mythological Greek heroes and athletes were)... just uh, to the wrong gods ;). Think Allah might have gotten a bit jealous and booked them on a one-way trip to damnation?

On a semi-related note that I was literally just talking to my mom about 5 minutes ago, and spent all day looking at, Turkey really is full of old Hellenic/pre-Greek tombs and ruins that no one (outside of Turkey, and probably inside as well) seems to know about... and that have never been touched by archaeologists.

Would you happen to know if many of these ruins are open to the public? The fact that they are just near little villages and have never been touched by archaeologists seems to suggest that no one actually cares they are there... and it would be cool to visit some ruins that are ruined by tourists or a paid experience.

In ancient Greek culture, a monument to a historical person who was a demi-god, was common.  Called a "heroon".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroon
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: drunkenshoe on August 16, 2019, 03:40:01 AM
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Does Islam even have "saints"?

The tomb of Jesus that everyone worships at never held Jesus' body, but no one cares, since it's "traditional" to just accept the story as it's been handed down. Makes 'em feel better, I guess.

Nope not like that, but they are the same thing in the end. It has various types of characters of the sort. Also secularised muslims pray to all of them. They light candle in Churches, visit Mary's house...etc.

I even lighted candles a lot in my life. We used to go sit in Saint Antoine when we skipped school, it is always cool inside and we were allowed in as long as we behaved. (We weren't there to worship obviously ortherwise it is open to everyone.) There were always people in there. We used to buy candles too because they are different than the generic candles? It's exotic to us. There was an old priest, everyone knew. He blessed everyone. Well, he was old when I was a kid, probably passed away.

I still light candles when visiting very old ones in Europe. And buy candles.   

Saint Antoine is a very new church, it was built around in 1906 I guess.

http://www.sentantuan.com/

 
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: drunkenshoe on August 16, 2019, 04:39:42 AM
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I mean, he was something of a "holy man" (if you count how mythological Greek heroes and athletes were)... just uh, to the wrong gods ;). Think Allah might have gotten a bit jealous and booked them on a one-way trip to damnation?

That and Diagoras and his sons look pretty fit too,lol. :p

Quote
On a semi-related note that I was literally just talking to my mom about 5 minutes ago, and spent all day looking at, Turkey really is full of old Hellenic/pre-Greek tombs and ruins that no one (outside of Turkey, and probably inside as well) seems to know about... and that have never been touched by archaeologists.

Would you happen to know if many of these ruins are open to the public? The fact that they are just near little villages and have never been touched by archaeologists seems to suggest that no one actually cares they are there... and it would be cool to visit some ruins that are ruined by tourists or a paid experience.

I haven't been following but with the last government era, I doubt if anyone takes it seriously as they did it before. First reason is there are quite a few big ruins in Anatolia. And compared to them tombs like this one are too small. Probably, most of them were used to build other buildings hundreds of years ago and then were rebuilt by anything found around if noticed and taken as important. If you look at it from this angle we can never know how many are there, but yes there are a lot.

That is the biggest problem with ancient structures of any kind. Esp. the ones you mean, because they are small and easy to remove to begin with. They are a ready building material and get recycled through history many times. Temples, Churches, Mosques, kervansarays, tombs...when people leave the area they become ruins. Now what we can be sure about is any religious or military structure will be the first to get fixed and used again by any culture replacing the previous one. But ancient structures? Well, they have been treated as building materials by everyone for so long a time, you can get how crazy they built them because we still have a lot. You can even recognise ancient stones in other ancient buildings which have nothing to with that culture. It's a mess.     

They are building a road in a forsaken region, BAM! an ancient tomb, a sarcophagus in it. You move any sarcophagus to a museum, but if there is a little structure what are you going to do with it? It's not something you can make money, somewhere people don't even go around and not something famous that will take special attention. They are scattered around in villages across the peninsula. And mostly raided long time ago and goes on. If it is not buried deep without any sign, it was highly likley raided long time ago. But as there is a lot, probably rare examples still wait somewhere. This is another mess. 

Forget forsaken corners, they were building the part of subway BAM! they struck freaking 3500 year old tombs in the middle of a big city, Istanbul. Oeeeh.

It's problematic to make excavations in Turkey. First safety of course, eastern parts are not safe. But then, if you try to dig somewhere around highly likely you'll go down quite a lot of periods. You need an army of arcehologists with expertises on different periods. We don't have that. When they are too many, they pay attention to big ones. In that case German, French archeologists invade. That was the case before. I don't know what is going on right now. Nobody trusts the current gov about this. I didn't even trust the old secular one. But they are supposedly working. That is why I am not following, lol. 

Any artifact really valuable anywhere and didn't go through official channels will end up in Europe and surface later, lol.   

And some people carry pieces to their home and live with them in their houses or use them in building because it belongs to their land and because they like it. Column headings, reliefs... Yeah, I know. If you ask me, Diagoras's tomb probably was 'looked after' by the villagers. They shouldn't have done that, lol.

When somebody says 'ancient tomb' this would come to mind, more than the little one like that. I think you'd like it.

 https://www.google.com/search?q=lycian+tombs+fethiye&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjRu6yP9obkAhWhlosKHQylCWEQ_AUIESgB&biw=1745&bih=881

http://www.lycianturkey.com/lycian_tombs.htm

Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Shiranu on August 17, 2019, 01:37:54 AM
Quote
And some people carry pieces to their home and live with them in their houses or use them in building because it belongs to their land and because they like it. Column headings, reliefs... Yeah, I know. If you ask me, Diagoras's tomb probably was 'looked after' by the villagers. They shouldn't have done that, lol.

I have mixed feelings about that. Of course I want ancient art and architecture to be preserved, but I also don't mind "living history" as it were. In 500 years, if they find an ancient column head or stone incorporated into a more modern structure... to them, they will find that an amazing example of two ancient cultures working together.

The tomb I definitely have strongly mixed feels about though.

And yep, digging the Lycian tombs. That was actually the culture I was looking at yesterday or day before. The site at Termessos looks particularly interesting. I doubt many people out side of Turkey knows of it's existence. Even Biblical cities like Ephesus and Antioch people probably just assume are in Israel.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Termessos_-_Theater.jpg/1280px-Termessos_-_Theater.jpg)
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Baruch on August 17, 2019, 05:47:17 AM
Sagalassos in SW Turkey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzlaPsi57wI

Heroon to the upper right.  More on Diagoras ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagoras_of_Rhodes
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: drunkenshoe on August 17, 2019, 02:21:55 PM
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I have mixed feelings about that. Of course I want ancient art and architecture to be preserved, but I also don't mind "living history" as it were. In 500 years, if they find an ancient column head or stone incorporated into a more modern structure... to them, they will find that an amazing example of two ancient cultures working together.

The tomb I definitely have strongly mixed feels about though.

And yep, digging the Lycian tombs. That was actually the culture I was looking at yesterday or day before. The site at Termessos looks particularly interesting. I doubt many people out side of Turkey knows of it's existence. Even Biblical cities like Ephesus and Antioch people probably just assume are in Israel.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Termessos_-_Theater.jpg/1280px-Termessos_-_Theater.jpg)

Ah just a few days ago, there was a documentary about this. It's a proper one. You are up to date. :)

If you like structures in rocks and mountains and don't mind the early Christian period, you'd like this one too. Probably you know it.

Sümela Monastery in Eastern Black Sea. Now that's what you call a monastery, lol. (4th century.)

(https://www.gezgez.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Su%CC%88mela-Manast%C4%B1r%C4%B1.jpg)

Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Shiranu on August 17, 2019, 10:18:32 PM
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Ah just a few days ago, there was a documentary about this. It's a proper one. You are up to date. :)

If you like structures in rocks and mountains and don't mind the early Christian period, you'd like this one too. Probably you know it.

Sümela Monastery in Eastern Black Sea. Now that's what you call a monastery, lol. (4th century.)

(https://www.gezgez.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Su%CC%88mela-Manast%C4%B1r%C4%B1.jpg)



Early Byzantine monastery, right? I believe I've seen it before.

There are so many places in Greece and Turkey I want to visit, as well as Sicily. That whole culture group has a weird place in my heart of being what I am descendant from, but also being almost foreign to me having been adopted out of that side of the family. That, and it's just beautiful architecture and artwork.


Turkey is such a beautiful country, it's a shame and disgrace the turmoil it keeps on going through and being put through. It's in too perfect of location to ever be left alone, I guess :(.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Baruch on August 17, 2019, 11:26:07 PM
With bandits, pirates, barbarians ... people took precautions to stay out of harms way.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: aileron on August 18, 2019, 12:04:12 AM
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. We used to buy candles too because they are different than the generic candles?

Yes, generic candles are made from paraffin wax (made from petroleum, think "thickened kerosine"), and they're quite nasty. In the Christian churches that have been around since antiquity (Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Byzantine, Coptic, etc.) they use beeswax candles. Beeswax candles don't have much of a scent all by themselves, but they don't pour out nasty black smoke and smell like a diesel exhaust when flickering as paraffin wax candles do. Also. sometimes they're infused with incense, particularly frankincense because it's listed as a gift of the Magi in the Book of Matthew. Walk into any Roman Catholic church, and you're smelling frankincense (not from the candles; they burn that in metal canisters to really get the smell permeating everywhere).   
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Baruch on August 18, 2019, 01:09:46 AM
This came out during the last Summer Olympics.  There were a few ancient Olympics that are well documented.  One of them relates to Diagoras' family (his son's win).  This is 100% accurate depiction ... 448 BC, and you are there ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bulsUY442yc

Background documentary ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoFO-ymVsys
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: drunkenshoe on August 18, 2019, 03:15:18 AM
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Yes, generic candles are made from paraffin wax (made from petroleum, think "thickened kerosine"), and they're quite nasty. In the Christian churches that have been around since antiquity (Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Byzantine, Coptic, etc.) they use beeswax candles. Beeswax candles don't have much of a scent all by themselves, but they don't pour out nasty black smoke and smell like a diesel exhaust when flickering as paraffin wax candles do. Also. sometimes they're infused with incense, particularly frankincense because it's listed as a gift of the Magi in the Book of Matthew. Walk into any Roman Catholic church, and you're smelling frankincense (not from the candles; they burn that in metal canisters to really get the smell permeating everywhere).

Yep, I know that smell. I have seen a doc on how priests used to make them years ago. I think it was that primitive shape and that colour we liked.

There is this beach in Aegean and it only has flat stones in it. Like saucers? My sister and I used to collect them and stick those candles on it with 3s and 4s close to each other, clustered at one side. It looked nice, like a movie prop. I still have one or two of those stones, haven't been there more than 20 years though.

Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Cavebear on August 24, 2019, 04:58:45 PM
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Not every post is a criticism.

Yours are usually either criticisms or bad jokes.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Baruch on August 24, 2019, 10:38:29 PM
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Yours are usually either criticisms or bad jokes.

You don't like me?  I consider you a rug, fit for risqué baby pictures.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Cavebear on August 27, 2019, 12:37:59 AM
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You don't like me?  I consider you a rug, fit for risqué baby pictures.

As I've said many times, I think you are intelligent and have more promise than you show.  I just wish you used that intelligence more often.

As to the rug thing, I LOVED IT!  That may be the most creative insult I've seen in YEARS!  The concept of "risque baby pictures" is truly amazing.  Did you get it from somewhere or come up with it on your own?  I could probably look it up.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Baruch on August 27, 2019, 02:19:45 AM
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As I've said many times, I think you are intelligent and have more promise than you show.  I just wish you used that intelligence more often.

As to the rug thing, I LOVED IT!  That may be the most creative insult I've seen in YEARS!  The concept of "risque baby pictures" is truly amazing.  Did you get it from somewhere or come up with it on your own?  I could probably look it up.

I heard, maybe a decade ago (old memory association) that parents were getting arrested for making such traditional portraits of infants (I assume baby is face down to screen the genitals).  More of that Puritan shit from your people.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Cavebear on August 27, 2019, 02:57:59 AM
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I heard, maybe a decade ago (old memory association) that parents were getting arrested for making such traditional portraits of infants (I assume baby is face down to screen the genitals).  More of that Puritan shit from your people.

Like Trump, you just can't help tossing in an insult at the end. 

You seem to be obsessed with the idea that just because I'm a Yankee of the 1900s, I must be Puritan of the 1600s.  Far from it.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Baruch on August 27, 2019, 08:08:39 AM
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Like Trump, you just can't help tossing in an insult at the end. 

You seem to be obsessed with the idea that just because I'm a Yankee of the 1900s, I must be Puritan of the 1600s.  Far from it.

Shit people should be shit upon.  Puritans are nasty fuckers.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Unbeliever on August 27, 2019, 01:15:50 PM
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Yours are usually either criticisms or bad jokes.
Baruch has a BS in b.s., and now he's working towards his doctorate.


:-P
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Baruch on August 27, 2019, 07:17:27 PM
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Baruch has a BS in b.s., and now he's working towards his doctorate.


:-P

MS actually.  My PhD thesis will be "On the Delusions of Liberals … Can Electroshock Help?"
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Mike Cl on August 27, 2019, 07:19:06 PM
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Baruch has a BS in b.s., and now he's working towards his doctorate.


:-P
Yes--and that is what I meant by 'piled higher and deeper'
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Baruch on August 27, 2019, 07:20:49 PM
Y'all can trade being the lead character in "Despicable Me" … I will play the Minions.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Cavebear on August 27, 2019, 10:50:55 PM
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Yes--and that is what I meant by 'piled higher and deeper'

Where I worked once we controlled conference office schedules and a small part of the building was occupied by the Dept of Education.  And they were all PhDs.  We used to drive them crazy by never referring to them as "Doctor". 
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Mike Cl on August 27, 2019, 10:53:38 PM
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Where I worked once we controlled conference office schedules and a small part of the building was occupied by the Dept of Education.  And they were all PhDs.  We used to drive them crazy by never referring to them as "Doctor".
My daughter would be a bit irritated with you.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Cavebear on August 27, 2019, 11:05:47 PM
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My daughter would be a bit irritated with you.

A PhD I assume, and much respect to her for the accomplishment.  But when you meet too many of them and they seem about the same in knowledge, the shine wears thin. 

I had a co-worker (outside of her specialty) once who made a big deal of it.  In OUR office skill set she was dumb as a box of rocks (OK I'll be polite "below average").  The first day she made a big deal of her degree.  The next day, I handed her a business card I created at home saying I was "Emperor Of The Universe" or some nonsense like that and demanded she use the title when addressing me. 

She stopped mentioning her title after that.  Now, for all I know she went on to make a $million per year elsewhere...
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Mike Cl on August 27, 2019, 11:47:25 PM
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A PhD I assume, and much respect to her for the accomplishment.  But when you meet too many of them and they seem about the same in knowledge, the shine wears thin. 

I had a co-worker (outside of her specialty) once who made a big deal of it.  In OUR office skill set she was dumb as a box of rocks (OK I'll be polite "below average").  The first day she made a big deal of her degree.  The next day, I handed her a business card I created at home saying I was "Emperor Of The Universe" or some nonsense like that and demanded she use the title when addressing me. 

She stopped mentioning her title after that.  Now, for all I know she went on to make a $million per year elsewhere...
Yes, I do respect her accomplishment.  She is the first of our clan to have gotten one.  Hell, I was the first to have graduated from college--and she zipped right through that.  All that degree means is that she has a firm grasp on the thoughts and tenements of the US education system plus she is an expert on one narrow area of education.  Yes, I am proud of her!
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Cavebear on August 27, 2019, 11:57:00 PM
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Yes, I do respect her accomplishment.  She is the first of our clan to have gotten one.  Hell, I was the first to have graduated from college--and she zipped right through that.  All that degree means is that she has a firm grasp on the thoughts and tenements of the US education system plus she is an expert on one narrow area of education.  Yes, I am proud of her!

Ooh, it had to be a PhD in Education and I just insulted that.  Nothing personal and I bet your daughter is one of the good ones.  May I be forgiven?
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Baruch on August 28, 2019, 03:13:40 AM
Yeah.  Divided opinion.  My handicapped daughter is a human on a human scale.  A fine person.  Has plenty of room to grow.  Or she would be a Sequoia tree, topping the world, with no room to grow.  In that case, I would be tempted (only tempted) to chop her ego down to size.  Women are already perfect, all of them.  A great woman is … beyond impossible.  My ex is like that.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Cavebear on August 28, 2019, 03:25:28 AM
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Yeah.  Divided opinion.  My handicapped daughter is a human on a human scale.  A fine person.  Has plenty of room to grow.  Or she would be a Sequoia tree, topping the world, with no room to grow.  In that case, I would be tempted (only tempted) to chop her ego down to size.  Women are already perfect, all of them.  A great woman is … beyond impossible.  My ex is like that.

And elsewhere you referred to women as "girls"...  Interesting compartmentalization.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Baruch on August 28, 2019, 03:32:14 AM
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And elsewhere you referred to women as "girls"...  Interesting compartmentalization.

The only correct pronoun is It.  We are all evil space clowns.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Cavebear on August 28, 2019, 03:41:25 AM
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The only correct pronoun is It.  We are all evil space clowns.

Well, I used to refer to my female cats as "girlcats" until a couple of women bloggers objected.  So, I'm more sensitive to that now. 
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Baruch on August 28, 2019, 03:48:45 AM
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Well, I used to refer to my female cats as "girlcats" until a couple of women bloggers objected.  So, I'm more sensitive to that now.

You are a domesticated tabby, not an alley cat.  Does your collar have a bell?
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Cavebear on August 28, 2019, 03:57:54 AM
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You are a domesticated tabby, not an alley cat.  Does your collar have a bell?

I live alone by free will and always have.  Do you really think I have a collar?
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Baruch on August 28, 2019, 03:58:28 AM
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I live alone by free will and always have.  Do you really think I have a collar?

Those who think they are free, are the most enslaved.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Cavebear on August 28, 2019, 04:01:02 AM
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Those who think they are free, are the most enslaved.

Let's see, I stopped dating 30 years ago, live alone, control every minute of my life, slepp when I want, eat when (and what) and answer to no one.  Nope, no collar.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Baruch on August 28, 2019, 04:05:33 AM
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Let's see, I stopped dating 30 years ago, live alone, control every minute of my life, slepp when I want, eat when (and what) and answer to no one.  Nope, no collar.

Your cats disagree.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Cavebear on August 28, 2019, 04:08:21 AM
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Your cats disagree.

The cats know I have the only thumbs in the house and the house isn't filled with mice to catch.  But they have claws.  We respect each other.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Mike Cl on August 28, 2019, 09:30:19 AM
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Ooh, it had to be a PhD in Education and I just insulted that.  Nothing personal and I bet your daughter is one of the good ones.  May I be forgiven?
I did not take it personally--not even for a second.  I would have handled the ed. phd's just as you did.  She is a sharp woman--sharper than me by a mile.  But I don't get my feathers ruffled by what people think of educational admin--never liked them much when I was a teacher, either.  Which means, when I had a good one, I appreciated them all the more.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Unbeliever on August 28, 2019, 01:27:14 PM
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We used to drive them crazy by never referring to them as "Doctor". 

I might've said "Eh, what's up doc?" But that joke gets old pretty quickly.


:-P
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: trdsf on August 28, 2019, 07:40:33 PM
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Well, I used to refer to my female cats as "girlcats" until a couple of women bloggers objected.  So, I'm more sensitive to that now.
I refer to Althea as my 'Feline Overlady' (as opposed to Overlord).
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: Cavebear on August 31, 2019, 03:40:47 AM
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I refer to Althea as my 'Feline Overlady' (as opposed to Overlord).

You should become a cat-blogger...  You would fit right in.
Title: Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
Post by: trdsf on September 17, 2019, 11:52:39 AM
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You should become a cat-blogger...  You would fit right in.
I have begun scripting a science appreciation podcast called "Every Cat's Guide to Things" of which Althea will be the face and my virtual Greek chorus (or front right theater seats).