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News & General Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mr.Obvious on July 23, 2019, 06:39:31 AM

Title: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Mr.Obvious on July 23, 2019, 06:39:31 AM
Just listened to this on my lunchbreak.
Thought I'd share.

https://youtu.be/cIANk7zQ05w
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Baruch on July 23, 2019, 07:30:28 AM
Correct, the universe was made for the Sith.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Munch on July 23, 2019, 07:39:53 AM
Quote from: Baruch on July 23, 2019, 07:30:28 AM
Correct, the universe was made for the Sith.

I like to think it was made by a lovecraftian horror by dreaming and once that horror wakes up we all just poof out of existence.

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/lovecraft/images/2/29/Azathoth_the_blind_idiot_god.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180305005840)
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Draconic Aiur on July 23, 2019, 03:39:24 PM
Beautiful.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Baruch on July 23, 2019, 07:12:10 PM
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on July 23, 2019, 03:39:24 PM
Beautiful.

The bigger the beast the better?  They have been tagging the "six gilled shark" ... a large shark, not often seen, whose body type is from the Dinosaur period (newer sharks have fewer gills, the most ancient had more ... six and seven gills.  Seven gill shark fossils are from the Jurassic).  Recent photo of one shows big green eyes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluntnose_sixgill_shark
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Munch on July 23, 2019, 08:27:05 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 23, 2019, 07:12:10 PM
The bigger the beast the better?  They have been tagging the "six gilled shark" ... a large shark, not often seen, whose body type is from the Dinosaur period (newer sharks have fewer gills, the most ancient had more ... six and seven gills.  Seven gill shark fossils are from the Jurassic).  Recent photo of one shows big green eyes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluntnose_sixgill_shark

lovecraft was using the matrix concept well before any of us were alive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2LELlE430s

something about a cosmic entity that has no bound shape, only just whatever indescribable thing we can imagine, and where everything we know exists because it remains asleep dreaming our existence just makes the concept of everything we know into meaningless chemical electrodes in the brain.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Baruch on July 24, 2019, 11:00:40 AM
Quote from: Munch on July 23, 2019, 08:27:05 PM
lovecraft was using the matrix concept well before any of us were alive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2LELlE430s

something about a cosmic entity that has no bound shape, only just whatever indescribable thing we can imagine, and where everything we know exists because it remains asleep dreaming our existence just makes the concept of everything we know into meaningless chemical electrodes in the brain.

Per materialism, that is all you are ... minus the alien god.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Cavebear on August 01, 2019, 09:18:05 AM
Idiots Guide To Evolution...  The universe is not made for us.  We are made for the universe.  Well, at least the planet.  We exist because some extremely simple constructs you could barely call "life" came into a collective of cells and duplicated themselves.  And then competition happened and we are here.  YAY!
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Baruch on August 01, 2019, 12:20:42 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 01, 2019, 09:18:05 AM
Idiots Guide To Evolution...  The universe is not made for us.  We are made for the universe.  Well, at least the planet.  We exist because some extremely simple constructs you could barely call "life" came into a collective of cells and duplicated themselves.  And then competition happened and we are here.  YAY!

Capitalism (competition) is very productive.  The socialist bacteria all died out, obviously.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Cavebear on August 01, 2019, 12:27:48 PM
Quote from: Baruch on August 01, 2019, 12:20:42 PM
Capitalism (competition) is very productive.  The socialist bacteria all died out, obviously.

They are both present and thriving.  Your body is 10-1 bacteria cells to human cells (human ones are bigger) though only about 2% your mass.  And most of those bacteria are utterly socialist.  You would curl up and die painfully without them).  The capitalistic ones can kill you.  Those are called "diseases".
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Baruch on August 01, 2019, 03:17:57 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 01, 2019, 12:27:48 PM
They are both present and thriving.  Your body is 10-1 bacteria cells to human cells (human ones are bigger) though only about 2% your mass.  And most of those bacteria are utterly socialist.  You would curl up and die painfully without them).  The capitalistic ones can kill you.  Those are called "diseases".

Totally wrong ... Leninus bacillus.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Unbeliever on August 01, 2019, 04:10:32 PM
I wonder if the only reason no one's ever written a book called "Religion For Dummies" is because it would just be too much irony?
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Cavebear on August 01, 2019, 04:14:23 PM
Quote from: Baruch on August 01, 2019, 03:17:57 PM
Totally wrong ... Leninus bacillus.

Nice try.  I didn't even go look it up.  I can just see you; ONO he didn't...
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: josephpalazzo on August 01, 2019, 04:19:08 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 01, 2019, 12:27:48 PM
They are both present and thriving.  Your body is 10-1 bacteria cells to human cells (human ones are bigger) though only about 2% your mass.  And most of those bacteria are utterly socialist.  You would curl up and die painfully without them).  The capitalistic ones can kill you.  Those are called "diseases".

Also, our cells co-operate and compete among themselves. As a single body (of trillions of cells) we both compete at the individual level and at a social level (groups versus groups).
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Cavebear on August 01, 2019, 04:29:07 PM
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 01, 2019, 04:19:08 PM
Also, our cells co-operate and compete among themselves. As a single body (of trillions of cells) we both compete at the individual level and at a social level (groups versus groups).

Quite right.  As I understood the article, our beneficial bacteria are pretty much isolated from the outside world (unless they were spread by battle wounds or accidents) but the non-beneficial ones are rather novel to our immune systems and need special attention.  As I recall, it baffled early researchers why out immune system attacked some bacteria and not others.  The novel ones were the threat.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Baruch on August 02, 2019, 03:29:05 AM
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 01, 2019, 04:19:08 PM
Also, our cells co-operate and compete among themselves. As a single body (of trillions of cells) we both compete at the individual level and at a social level (groups versus groups).

Once you get beyond a single body, to different species members or different species, it is less socialist.  Part of my view of socialism is based on not wanting to be a social insect (the extension of somaticism beyond the individual).
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Baruch on August 02, 2019, 03:29:46 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 01, 2019, 04:29:07 PM
Quite right.  As I understood the article, our beneficial bacteria are pretty much isolated from the outside world (unless they were spread by battle wounds or accidents) but the non-beneficial ones are rather novel to our immune systems and need special attention.  As I recall, it baffled early researchers why out immune system attacked some bacteria and not others.  The novel ones were the threat.

Bacteria that write poetry are best.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: josephpalazzo on August 04, 2019, 07:28:27 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 01, 2019, 04:29:07 PM
As I recall, it baffled early researchers why out immune system attacked some bacteria and not others.  The novel ones were the threat.

That must explain why after 47 years of marriage, kissing my wife is no longer a threat - by now her bacteria and mine have merged perfectly in harmony...:-)
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Cavebear on August 08, 2019, 05:59:59 PM
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 04, 2019, 07:28:27 PM
That must explain why after 47 years of marriage, kissing my wife is no longer a threat - by now her bacteria and mine have merged perfectly in harmony...:-)

Actually, you both may be intertwined biologically more than you realize.  You may well be nearly a single biotosphere by now.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: josephpalazzo on August 08, 2019, 06:22:12 PM
I google "biotosphere" and I got some Russian websites?!!?
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Baruch on August 08, 2019, 09:30:37 PM
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 08, 2019, 06:22:12 PM
I google "biotosphere" and I got some Russian websites?!!?

Proof that Cavebear is the Trump representative in Moscow.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Mr.Obvious on August 09, 2019, 11:57:02 AM
Quote from: Baruch on August 08, 2019, 09:30:37 PM
Proof that Cavebear is the Trump representative in Moscow.

Would explain the bear as his avatar.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Cavebear on August 12, 2019, 06:19:19 AM
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 08, 2019, 06:22:12 PM
I google "biotosphere" and I got some Russian websites?!!?

Apologies.  The term is logically legit, but biosphere would have been better.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Cavebear on August 12, 2019, 06:21:41 AM
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on August 09, 2019, 11:57:02 AM
Would explain the bear as his avatar.

Yeah right, I'm a secret agent, using an obvious handle.  LOL!
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Baruch on August 12, 2019, 06:52:56 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 12, 2019, 06:21:41 AM
Yeah right, I'm a secret agent, using an obvious handle.  LOL!

Like the burglar who left his wallet at the scene of the crime?
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Cavebear on August 12, 2019, 10:56:15 PM
Quote from: Baruch on August 12, 2019, 06:52:56 AM
Like the burglar who left his wallet at the scene of the crime?

That reminds me of the bank robber who handed the teller a note written on the back of his own deposit slip.  And the one who walked back to his apartment IN THE SNOW.  Criminals are really dumb.  Ive mentioned this before, but a detective once said that any criminal who thinks of 8 of 20 things that can go wrong is a criminal mastermind.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Baruch on August 12, 2019, 11:36:16 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 12, 2019, 10:56:15 PM
That reminds me of the bank robber who handed the teller a note written on the back of his own deposit slip.  And the one who walked back to his apartment IN THE SNOW.  Criminals are really dumb.  Ive mentioned this before, but a detective once said that any criminal who thinks of 8 of 20 things that can go wrong is a criminal mastermind.

The really dumbest one run for office.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Cavebear on August 13, 2019, 01:17:40 AM
Quote from: Baruch on August 12, 2019, 11:36:16 PM
The really dumbest one run for office.

No the ones who don't get caught run for office, as they are skilled at crimes.  Not that all are criminals, but some criminals are skilled at politics.  For some of them, it is all a Ponzi scheme; for others, influence peddling is the game.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Baruch on August 13, 2019, 02:09:45 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 13, 2019, 01:17:40 AM
No the ones who don't get caught run for office, as they are skilled at crimes.  Not that all are criminals, but some criminals are skilled at politics.  For some of them, it is all a Ponzi scheme; for others, influence peddling is the game.

Correct, there is no all in all ... but still no reason to not despair.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Cavebear on August 13, 2019, 02:18:24 AM
Quote from: Baruch on August 13, 2019, 02:09:45 AM
Correct, there is no all in all ... but still no reason to not despair.

Actually, there IS "all" in "all".  There IS however no "I" in "team"...
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Baruch on August 13, 2019, 10:40:18 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 13, 2019, 02:18:24 AM
Actually, there IS "all" in "all".  There IS however no "I" in "team"...

Too bad we are not only tribal, but as individualists (narcissists) all our teams have at most one member.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Cavebear on August 15, 2019, 11:16:17 AM
Quote from: Baruch on August 13, 2019, 10:40:18 AM
Too bad we are not only tribal, but as individualists (narcissists) all our teams have at most one member.

Speak for yourself.  I count my tribe about 7.7 billion people as of April 2019 .  Sorry, I'm behind in counting...
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Baruch on August 15, 2019, 01:43:02 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 15, 2019, 11:16:17 AM
Speak for yourself.  I count my tribe about 7.7 billion people as of April 2019 .  Sorry, I'm behind in counting...

See!  I knew you were a globalist traitor ;-)  Putin is part of your tribe?  Hmmm.  Let all of them move in with you, now ... you White billionaires can afford it.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Unbeliever on August 15, 2019, 01:45:28 PM
Here's one of my favorite quotes:


Quote from: H.G. Wells, in The Discovery of the Future
We look back through countless millions of years and
see the great will to live struggling out of the intertidal
slime, struggling from shape to shape and from power
to power, crawling and then walking confidently upon
the land, struggling generation after generation to
master the air, creeping down into the darkness of
the deep; we see it turn upon itself in rage and
hunger and reshape itself anew, we watch it draw
nearer and more akin to us, expanding, elaborating
itself, pursuing its relentless inconceivable purpose,
until at last it reaches us and its being beats through
our brains and arteries...It is possible to believe that
all the past is but the beginning of a beginning,
and that all that is and has been is but the twilight of the dawn.
It is possible to believe that all that the mind of man has ever
accomplished is but the dream before the awakening...
Out of our...lineage, minds will spring, that will reach back to us
in our littleness to know us better than we know ourselves.
A day will come, one day in the unending succession of days,
when beings, beings who are now latent in our thoughts
and hidden in our loins, shall stand upon this Earth as
one stands upon a footstool, and shall laugh and reach
out their hands amidst the stars.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Cavebear on August 15, 2019, 01:46:27 PM
Quote from: Baruch on August 15, 2019, 01:43:02 PM
See!  I knew you were a globalist traitor ;-)  Putin is part of your tribe?  Hmmm.  Let all of them move in with you, now ... you White billionaires can afford it.

Yeah, but so is the poorest villager a member of my tribe.  And even you...
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Cavebear on August 15, 2019, 01:50:09 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 15, 2019, 01:45:28 PM
Here's one of my favorite quotes:

Well said by Wells, and thank you for offerring it.. 

Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Baruch on August 15, 2019, 01:56:56 PM
H G Wells ... would he consider you Eloi or Morlock?
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Cavebear on August 15, 2019, 02:06:33 PM
Quote from: Baruch on August 15, 2019, 01:56:56 PM
H G Wells ... would he consider you Eloi or Morlock?

Neither of course.  We are not one or the other today.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Unbeliever on August 15, 2019, 02:07:20 PM
Quote from: Baruch on August 15, 2019, 01:56:56 PM
H G Wells ... would he consider you Eloi or Morlock?

He'd consider me an Ubermensch!
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Cavebear on August 15, 2019, 02:10:41 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 15, 2019, 02:07:20 PM
He'd consider me an Ubermensch!

I think it takes like another 10,000 posts.  Or 20.  Baruch might know.  I bet he has a chart.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Baruch on August 16, 2019, 01:29:15 AM
If this site modifies the engine to allow down votes, people can de-evolve back to slime mold ;-)
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: josephpalazzo on August 16, 2019, 07:57:42 AM
Quote from: Baruch on August 16, 2019, 01:29:15 AM
If this site modifies the engine to allow down votes, people can de-evolve back to slime mold ;-)

For some that would be an improvement...
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Cavebear on August 20, 2019, 05:46:22 AM
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 16, 2019, 07:57:42 AM
For some that would be an improvement...

But for some a devolvement would not matter.  Baruch would just post more and faster and that sure wouldn't benefit anyone.
Title: Re: Carl Sagan - A universe not made for us
Post by: Baruch on August 20, 2019, 06:22:17 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on August 20, 2019, 05:46:22 AM
But for some a devolvement would not matter.  Baruch would just post more and faster and that sure wouldn't benefit anyone.

There is no way to go up to or past Warp 10 ;-)