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https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/straight-pride-parade-one-may-be-coming-boston-summer-n1014861

QuoteA little less than one week into LGBTQ Pride Month, an organization in Boston, Massachusetts, says it’s organizing a “straight pride” parade with Brad Pitt as its mascot.

Boston might be getting a "Straight Pride Parade" later this summer.

Just a few days into LGBTQ Pride Month, a group of men in Boston announced they were planning a parade to commemorate the straight community. With a tagline of “It’s great to be straight,” the event organizers have adopted Brad Pitt as their “mascot” and even have a “straight pride flag” to represent their “oppressed majority.”

The organization behind the event, tentatively planned for Aug. 31, is Super Happy Fun America, a group “committed to creating spaces for people of all identities to embrace the vibrancy of the straight community.” It believes that “true diversity is only possible when people of all sexual orientations are free to celebrate their lifestyles.”

Mark Sahady, the organization's vice president and a member of the right-wing group "Resist Marxism," announced on Facebook May 30 that Boston Straight Pride “will happen” and claims that the city is working with the group after it filed a "discrimination complaint."

“...it appears the City of Boston understands they would lose in litigation,” Sahady wrote. “The city is now working with us on the parade. We will have the streets closed and be allowed to have floats and vehicles.”

Sahady has organized several other controversial rallies in Boston, including a “Rally for the Republic” in 2017 that drew fewer than 100 right-wing demonstrators and a pro-gun protest in response to the March for Our Lives in 2018.

The post went on to say that the tentative date would be finalized in the coming weeks and provided a map of the parade route.

Sahady did not return NBC News' request for comment.

In response to the public uproar, Boston Mayor Marty Walsh released a statement to NBC News shifting the spotlight to the city's upcoming LGBTQ pride events happening this weekend.

"Every year Boston hosts our annual Pride Week, where our city comes together to celebrate the diversity, strength and acceptance of our LGBTQ community," he said. "This is a special week that represents Boston's values of love and inclusion, which are unwavering. I encourage everyone to join us in celebration this Saturday for the Pride Parade and in the fight for progress and equality for all.”

City Hall confirmed to NBC News that the group applied for a permit for the event but said that a permit has not yet been granted.

“As with all groups seeking to host events in the City of Boston, groups must go through the City of Boston permit process to host events in the City of Boston,” a City Hall spokesperson said.

People took to social media to publicly condemn the event.

Actor George Takei tweeted, “They're planning a ‘straight pride’ parade in Boston, presumably to commemorate that historic moment when courageous heterosexual frat bros finally stood up to the gay cops who had been harassing and arresting them for decades.”

Many straight celebrities also lent their voices to the social media outcry, including actor Chris Evans, the band Smashmouth and Congresswomen Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

“Will ‘Straight Pride’ be a Freaky Friday type situation where all of our history books, movies, stories, media, news, etc feature mostly LGBTQ+ people & perspectives?” Ocasio-Cortez tweeted. “Will people have to come out as straight? What would folks march in? Socks w/ sandals on? Dad jeans?”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSF-wxvTFJo&t=216s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGT16dC18Qo

I would attend this, I'd ask my straight friends to come with and we'd have a blast, and celebrate their sexuality together.

After all, sexuality is meant to be inclusive to all spectrum, so if they can have gay, trans and lesbian pride, its only fair people celebrate their sexuality whatever it may be.

This thing is only meant to be provocative. My response to it is troll, do not feed.

Quote from: _Xenu_ on June 08, 2019, 03:03:28 PM
This thing is only meant to be provocative. My response to it is troll, do not feed.

how come? Shouldn't all sexuality (minus the ones that hurt people like children) be part of the celebration?

Infact, heres a list of my fav straight couples in fiction.

Goliath and Eliza (gargoyles series)
Black canary and Green Arrow (dc comics)
Hellboy and liz (hellboy series)
Belle and the Beast (disney beauty and the beast)
Carl Fredricksen and Ellie Fredricksen (Up)
WALL-E and EVE (Wall-e)
Morticia and Gomez Addams (Addams family)
Martha and Jonathan Kent (superman series)
Sam Wheat and Molly Jensen (Ghost)
Fry and Leela (futurama)

Are you serious, Munch? This has got to be the most brain dead post I've seen from you. Are you trying to be the new PR?

Do you need me to explain to you why the LGBT Pride Parade is important? The LGBT are groups of people who have been, and are still being, persecuted. "Pride" is about being proud of who you are, despite the world telling you to be ashamed of it. You know what group has never had to face persecution for being who they are? STRAIGHT PEOPLE, you fucking idiot.

Seriously, Conservatives are a bunch of delicate snowflakes. They have to be included in everything, or they'll throw a hissy fit.

"Black Lives Matter? What about All Lives Matter?"

"Why isn't there a White History Month?"

"Why do the gays get a parade? I want a parade too!"

Asking for a straight pride parade is like looking at handicapped parking spaces and demanding you have able-bodied parking spaces. You don't need it. Stop being an asshole. If you want to go to a parade, go to the LGBT Pride parade. Believe it or not, they welcome straight allies. This isn't about being included, it's about silencing the queers.

This is a clear demonstration of idiocy.

Quote from: Blackleaf on June 08, 2019, 04:53:20 PM
Are you serious, Munch? This has got to be the most brain dead post I've seen from you. Are you trying to be the new PR?

Do you need me to explain to you why the LGBT Pride Parade is important? The LGBT are groups of people who have been, and are still being, persecuted. "Pride" is about being proud of who you are, despite the world telling you to be ashamed of it. You know what group has never had to face persecution for being who they are? STRAIGHT PEOPLE, you fucking idiot.

Seriously, Conservatives are a bunch of delicate snowflakes. They have to be included in everything, or they'll throw a hissy fit.

"Black Lives Matter? What about All Lives Matter?"

"Why isn't there a White History Month?"

"Why do the gays get a parade? I want a parade too!"

Asking for a straight pride parade is like looking at handicapped parking spaces and demanding you have able-bodied parking spaces. You don't need it. Stop being an asshole. If you want to go to a parade, go to the LGBT Pride parade. Believe it or not, they welcome straight allies. This isn't about being included, it's about silencing the queers.

Your not sounding very inclusive, not very progressive of you. I honestly thought better.

I don't see anyone aiming for this parade saying gay pride isn't important.

well its okay to give them folks their colored flags and a parade but good god now they get a whole month? Whats next a whole month for former Jap internment "peoples".......?

QuoteI would attend this...

That does not surprise me in the least.

Well, there are people who hate sex.  Those who like same-sex, some who like other-sex and those who like any-sex ;-))

So where do posters fall?  (rhetorical)

Identity politics is where "name an oppressed minority" gets their own hit parade.  Italian-Americans (Columbus Day) get the best one,  a Federal holiday.  Irish-Americans (St Patrick's Day) get a good one, not a Federal holiday but well supported.  Cinco De Mayo (Mexican-American mostly) is another good one.  There are many other "pfft" announced special days by Congress, but not that much observance.  Lip service (but is kissing allowed?).  Notice the pattern, only the Catholics get to party hardy ;-))

I don't think we need any public sex parties, unless you are a "shameless nudist" ;-(

Quote from: Shiranu on June 08, 2019, 05:25:59 PM
That does not surprise me in the least.

ICEL much?  aww.

Quote from: Shiranu on June 08, 2019, 05:25:59 PM
That does not surprise me in the least.

You saying you wouldn't? Guess I'm just more accepting of everyone's sexuality then

Quote from: Baruch on June 08, 2019, 05:27:21 PM
Well, there are people who hate sex.  Those who like same-sex, some who like other-sex and those who like any-sex ;-))

Good point, I never recall an a-sexual parade, maybe they just don't see reason to parade about the fact.

I see no problem with it. In fact I laugh at the irony of outrage among the left.

Quote from: Munch on June 08, 2019, 05:35:20 PM
Good point, I never recall an a-sexual parade, maybe they just don't see reason to parade about the fact.

Atheist demonizing others?  Sure ... irony.

Quote from: Munch on June 08, 2019, 05:35:20 PM
Good point, I never recall an a-sexual parade, maybe they just don't see reason to parade about the fact.

Well ... sex porn by the anti-sex people would be pretty boring ;-)

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 08, 2019, 05:58:38 PM
I see no problem with it. In fact I laugh at the irony of outrage among the left.

If anti-social revolutionaries = Left.  Then I don't think they are conscious of irony.

Extremists are the only ones to get attention.  So the creeping barrage (WW I) of "outrage artillery" is how they stay in the publicity.

Quote from: Munch on June 08, 2019, 05:35:20 PM
Good point, I never recall an a-sexual parade, maybe they just don't see reason to parade about the fact.

North or South, they sing no songs for spiders.

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/499/755/635.png)

Quote from: Munch on June 08, 2019, 05:32:27 PM
You saying you wouldn't? Guess I'm just more accepting of everyone's sexuality then

Let's cut the bullshit; this event doesn't have a drop to do about sexuality, and that's why you love it so much.

Shit, I would even respect your position if you admitted you liked it for what it was, even if I vehemently disagreed with you on it and found it pathetically childish; at least it would have integrity. And as for the people who actually do think we need a straight pride parade, and aren't doing it just to be trolls... I legitimately have sympathy for them. There is something clearly deeper at work making them feel so insecure about themselves, and I hope they find some peace from that.

(http://is2.4chan.org/pol/1559959531111.jpg)

Identity politics is the new standard of uber-menschen.  Traditionally, people make stupid claims by being part of a majority.  Today, people make stupid claims by being part of a minority.  Stupid rabbit, political tricks are for kids!

I don't need any parade.  Even if I were a shameless gay nudist.

Quote from: Shiranu on June 08, 2019, 06:50:45 PM
Let's cut the bullshit; this event doesn't have a drop to do about sexuality, and that's why you love it so much.

Shit, I would even respect your position if you admitted you liked it for what it was, even if I vehemently disagreed with you on it and found it pathetically childish; at least it would have integrity. And as for the people who actually do think we need a straight pride parade, and aren't doing it just to be trolls... I legitimately have sympathy for them. There is something clearly deeper at work making them feel so insecure about themselves, and I hope they find some peace from that.

It's because the left can't see that they oppress CIS gender for existing because the pain they felt during oppression that makes it Ironic. Yes LBGT are more oppressed than CIS, but that doesn't make the insecurities and injustice wrong on both accounts. This is why trolls give off so easily, because the left doesn't realize what they do when they heavily, militarize their ideas and oppress others is exactly what the right does and whom they swore to defeat.

Munch looks at this topic and sees the comic irony and y'all get offended to prove point. Also because it's so true and that CIS should have their own parade like a parade for Caucasian people, which again would simultaneous explode because yet y'all have no reasonable logic that explains that we are all human and should have pride in ourselves not because we are one labeled few but because we are different and theirs nothing wrong with being different.

Honestly the social construct of the victim has been shoved down our throats too long many people are getting tired of it. Even down the very people who agree to an extent with leftist politics, are getting mocked and belittled by SJW's for not being on the left enough.

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 08, 2019, 07:53:12 PM
It's because the left can't see that they oppress CIS gender for existing

Last time I checked, no one bats an eye at two straight people getting married, no one gets disowned for coming out as straight, there are no straight conversion camps, no "straight bashing", job discrimination, etc.

Honestly, I wish you guys would be more honest about your approach and just admit that this is really just about triggering the Left by adopting the mannerisms without the substance.  I dunno how you two feel about SJWs, but they're the last people on Earth I'd try to emulate.  And as vile as their tactics are, at least the SJWs can semi-convincingly argue that they're just trying to make the world a better place.  Can these right-wing SJW wannabes say the same?

Quote from: Shiranu on June 08, 2019, 06:50:45 PM
Let's cut the bullshit; this event doesn't have a drop to do about sexuality, and that's why you love it so much.

Shit, I would even respect your position if you admitted you liked it for what it was, even if I vehemently disagreed with you on it and found it pathetically childish; at least it would have integrity. And as for the people who actually do think we need a straight pride parade, and aren't doing it just to be trolls... I legitimately have sympathy for them. There is something clearly deeper at work making them feel so insecure about themselves, and I hope they find some peace from that.

okay, lets tell it like it is.

Infact, Draconic Aiur already did. This has nothing to do with sexual rights, the people who made this know that, I know that, anyone with common sense knows that. Why it was created, was to draw out the easily offended. And by the twitter reaction to it (and certain ones on here), it worked.

That said, something like this continues to prove the point drac said, the outrage over this was enjoyable. However, it does highlight the growing issue of the current generation of social Marxists, that those who claim to stand for progressive ideals, really aren't. When I think of people like martin luther king wanted everyone to be equal, seeing how modern day 'progressives' are as bigoted to people based on the skin color (white) gender (hetero male) and nationality (all previous plus westerner), more then usual its the ones who get offended by something like this thing who fall into that catagory.

And people will continue to draw them out for what they are, fake progressives, not interested in cultural growth, rather just looking for a means to 'take down the man' by means of minorities getting revenge on the 'oppressors'.

We live in a time now where things like race, gender and sexual orientation is an accepted principle of normalcy in the west, we're currently in 'pride month', a whole month dedicated to gay pride. I saw gay pride banners in shop windows when I was in town today. And yet I think about how those people have this given to them today, can have those in that demographic who can be just as backwards against someones race, gender and orientation, as those decades before them. Only its on the other side of the coin now.

Real equality doesn't come from thinking its okay or acceptable for those of a minority to get away with being racist, sexist or bigoted towards those they once counted as being racist, sexist and bigoted to them. And thats why something like this, straight pride march, is effective in something this kind of hypocrisy. Those reacting to it, who get offended by it, are the insecure ones.

Quote from: Munch on June 08, 2019, 05:10:37 PM
Your not sounding very inclusive, not very progressive of you. I honestly thought better.

I don't see anyone aiming for this parade saying gay pride isn't important.

I don't need to be "inclusive" of bigots. God, you're like an Uncle Tom for gay people.

Quote from: Blackleaf on June 08, 2019, 08:32:54 PM
I don't need to be "inclusive" of bigots. God, you're like an Uncle Tom for gay people.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/b9DHLGy7LrQ1W/giphy.gif)

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 08, 2019, 07:53:12 PM
It's because the left can't see that they oppress CIS gender for existing because the pain they felt during oppression that makes it Ironic. Yes LBGT are more oppressed than CIS, but that doesn't make the insecurities and injustice wrong on both accounts. This is why trolls give off so easily, because the left doesn't realize what they do when they heavily, militarize their ideas and oppress others is exactly what the right does and whom they swore to defeat.

Munch looks at this topic and sees the comic irony and y'all get offended to prove point. Also because it's so true and that CIS should have their own parade like a parade for Caucasian people, which again would simultaneous explode because yet y'all have no reasonable logic that explains that we are all human and should have pride in ourselves not because we are one labeled few but because we are different and theirs nothing wrong with being different.

Honestly the social construct of the victim has been shoved down our throats too long many people are getting tired of it. Even down the very people who agree to an extent with leftist politics, are getting mocked and belittled by SJW's for not being on the left enough.

wonderfully spoken. leasts theres a couple people left on here that gets it.

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 08, 2019, 07:53:12 PM
It's because the left can't see that they oppress CIS gender for existing because the pain they felt during oppression that makes it Ironic. Yes LBGT are more oppressed than CIS, but that doesn't make the insecurities and injustice wrong on both accounts. This is why trolls give off so easily, because the left doesn't realize what they do when they heavily, militarize their ideas and oppress others is exactly what the right does and whom they swore to defeat.

Munch looks at this topic and sees the comic irony and y'all get offended to prove point. Also because it's so true and that CIS should have their own parade like a parade for Caucasian people, which again would simultaneous explode because yet y'all have no reasonable logic that explains that we are all human and should have pride in ourselves not because we are one labeled few but because we are different and theirs nothing wrong with being different.

Honestly the social construct of the victim has been shoved down our throats too long many people are getting tired of it. Even down the very people who agree to an extent with leftist politics, are getting mocked and belittled by SJW's for not being on the left enough.

What people like you consider "oppression" is so broad, it makes the term absolutely useless. White people are not oppressed. CIS people are not oppressed. Straight people are not oppressed. The LGBT+ groups are heavily oppressed. Trying to equate the "oppression" of straight, CIS people with the real oppression of the LGBT is insulting. The LGBT have a pride parade to celebrate how far they've come; to celebrate an acceptance of who they are, despite people trying to shame them for being who they are. Straight people do not have to struggle for being straight. What do straight people have to celebrate? We've been at the top of the food chain, and still are. We've always been accepted by society. The reason the straight parade exists is to clap back against the LGBT community. Its motivation is pure bigotry. Stop trying to pretend it's anything else.

Quote from: Hydra009 on June 08, 2019, 08:23:34 PM
Last time I checked, no one bats an eye at two straight people getting married, no one gets disowned for coming out as straight, there are no straight conversion camps, no "straight bashing", job discrimination, etc.

Honestly, I wish you guys would be more honest about your approach and just admit that this is really just about triggering the Left by adopting the mannerisms without the substance.  I dunno how you two feel about SJWs, but they're the last people on Earth I'd try to emulate.  And as vile as their tactics are, at least the SJWs can semi-convincingly argue that they're just trying to make the world a better place.  Can these right-wing SJW wannabes say the same?

Yet they do bat an eye if CIS want want to celebrate and have pride in themselves.

It's called having double standards. Look it up.

Quote from: Munch on June 08, 2019, 08:34:42 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/b9DHLGy7LrQ1W/giphy.gif)

Okay...? Are you just giving up now? Seriously, dude, I've seen Fox News clips more thought provoking than your responses.

Quote from: Blackleaf on June 08, 2019, 08:44:47 PM
Okay...? Are you just giving up now? Seriously, dude, I've seen Fox News clips more thought provoking than your responses.

thought provoking responses require legitimate consideration of ideas.

Welcome to clown world.

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 08, 2019, 08:44:05 PM
Yet they do bat an eye if CIS want want to celebrate and have pride in themselves.

It's called having double standards. Look it up.

WHAT DO STRAIGHT PEOPLE HAVE TO BE PROUD ABOUT? Again, the LGBT Pride Parade is not a celebration of the fact that the LGBT+ exist. It's a celebration of what they've overcome. What struggles have straight people had to overcome as a result of being straight? Nothing. Organizing a straight pride parade is like organizing a white history month. We don't need a white history month. Normal history classes are white history. Are able-bodied people oppressed because they don't have their own exclusive parking spaces, while the handicapped do? No? Of course not. That'd be idiotic, just like people are being about straight pride.

Quote from: Munch on June 08, 2019, 08:46:26 PM
thought provoking responses require legitimate consideration of ideas.

Welcome to clown world.

Memes now, is it? There's not an original thought in your head, is there? All you've got in your head is what Right Wing YouTubers told you to think. You should go to the Make America Straight Again event. You'd fit right in.

Quote from: Blackleaf on June 08, 2019, 08:49:58 PM
WHAT DO STRAIGHT PEOPLE HAVE TO BE PROUD ABOUT? Again, the LGBT Pride Parade is not a celebration of the fact that the LGBT+ exist. It's a celebration of what they've overcome. What struggles have straight people had to overcome as a result of being straight? Nothing. Organizing a straight pride parade is like organizing a white history month. We don't need a white history month. Normal history classes are white history. Are able-bodied people oppressed because they don't have their own exclusive parking spaces, while the handicapped do? No? Of course not. That'd be idiotic, just like people are being about straight pride.

What does anyone have to be proud of just being born a certain way? Its not and never has been an achievement just being born a certain way. The only thing worth being proud of in life is effort made.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OnWnwwxNPA

Quote from: Munch on June 08, 2019, 05:35:20 PM
Good point, I never recall an a-sexual parade, maybe they just don't see reason to parade about the fact.

A-sexuals are included in the LGBT+, you goddamn moron. As are the polyamorous, and anyone who isn't straight or cis. Some people have taken to using the term GRSM (Gender, Romantic, and Sexual Minorities) instead, because it's more clear about who it includes, but Jesus Christ. You should know this stuff already. At least, you would, if you actually listened to people on the Left instead of listening to what right wing YouTubers tell you we have to say.

Quote from: Munch on June 08, 2019, 08:57:43 PM
What does anyone have to be proud of just being born a certain way? Its not and never has been an achievement just being born a certain way. The only thing worth being proud of in life is effort made.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OnWnwwxNPA

I JUST said LGBT pride is not about the fact that they exist. Reading comprehension. Do you have it? Admit it, you just read the first sentence and started typing, didn't you?

Quote from: Blackleaf on June 08, 2019, 08:59:17 PM
I JUST said LGBT pride is not about the fact that they exist. Reading comprehension. Do you have it? Admit it, you just read the first sentence and started typing, didn't you?

And yet, thats exactly what they do. If you knew how these social and ethnic groups operate, you'd know how many of them piggyback off of the few who have made the effort to get these changes made.

Quote from: Blackleaf on June 08, 2019, 08:49:58 PM
WHAT DO STRAIGHT PEOPLE HAVE TO BE PROUD ABOUT? Again, the LGBT Pride Parade is not a celebration of the fact that the LGBT+ exist. It's a celebration of what they've overcome. What struggles have straight people had to overcome as a result of being straight? Nothing. Organizing a straight pride parade is like organizing a white history month. We don't need a white history month. Normal history classes are white history. Are able-bodied people oppressed because they don't have their own exclusive parking spaces, while the handicapped do? No? Of course not. That'd be idiotic, just like people are being about straight pride.

Yet their are struggles of CIS white able bodied people in the modern world. Your thinking that the people that are not CIS, white, able bodied, should only have parades celebrating them because they struggled more? That's such rubbish. It should be celebrating humans as a whole not part unless your willing to see the flaws in such a notion.

Also if you look at history theirs so many struggles within white history with white people, CIS, and able bodied people, are you telling me your too lazy to look it up or your saying because your -----, gives you the right to be proud and celebrate history or have a parade?

Quote from: Blackleaf on June 08, 2019, 08:58:21 PM
A-sexuals are included in the LGBT+, you goddamn moron. As are the polyamorous, and anyone who isn't straight or cis. Some people have taken to using the term GRSM (Gender, Romantic, and Sexual Minorities) instead, because it's more clear about who it includes, but Jesus Christ. You should know this stuff already. At least, you would, if you actually listened to people on the Left instead of listening to what right wing YouTubers tell you we have to say.

If you had something rational to speak about instead of it just being reactionary, maybe you'd give me reason to want to listen. my 9 year old nephew has made more profound and reasonable debates for his class on ethnicity and social stigmas then anything you've made here.

saw a great post on FB "isn't straight pride the same as the drive thru lanes a a Chix-Fil-A?

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 08, 2019, 09:09:05 PM
Yet their are struggles of CIS white able bodied people in the modern world. Your thinking that the people that are not CIS, white, able bodied, should only have parades celebrating them because they struggled more? That's such rubbish. It should be celebrating humans as a whole not part unless your willing to see the flaws in such a notion.

Also if you look at history theirs so many struggles within white history with white people, CIS, and able bodied people, are you telling me your too lazy to look it up or your saying because your -----, gives you the right to be proud and celebrate history or have a parade?

you just have to look at whats happened in south africa and white farmers for one example of white people facing oppression in that part of the world.

Quote from: MunchInfact, Draconic Aiur already did. This has nothing to do with sexual rights, the people who made this know that, I know that, anyone with common sense knows that.

Quote from: Draconic AiurYes LBGT are more oppressed than CIS, but that doesn't make the insecurities and injustice wrong on both accounts.

So you are agreeing with someone who, by your own accounts, has no common sense.

QuoteThat said, something like this continues to prove the point drac said, the outrage over this was enjoyable.

That says far more about you than it does anyone else.






You are consistently, since pr's banning, hands down the single most offended poster on this forum... and to be frank, for all of pr's xenophobia and hatefulness he never really had that cry-baby persona that you have. You throw tantrums over comic book characters, over movies, over articles that are objectively proven false (that you then throw a tantrum over people calling them false)... and yet want to turn around and talk about how everyone else gets offended over nothing, how you are just a suave troll trying to feed off of outrage culture.

If there is a more on the nose meme to describe your internet persona, I'm not aware of it.

My WHITE ancestors were poor farmers mostly that didn't have slaves and thought the goverment was shitty and they as white people worked their butts of to provide their children life and a future. I'm proud to be white and a descendant of American white Northern people that were German, Irish, British, Norwegian, French, Gael, Scottish, Switz, and from people that were good people that came over and had plenty of struggles with people in general. My Ancestor Sir Gerald fought the British in Ireland, my ancestor from Germany was a vassal of William the conqueror and I find pride that that's my ancestor who was apart of history even though it might have it's negatives. I am CIS but also a little bit queer as no one is absolutely anything and I'm proud to choose my own sexuality based on my own chemical make up and social rights, so I have pride in my choice to be open about sexuality much as those who are sexually LGBT.

Quote from: Shiranu on June 08, 2019, 09:22:22 PM

You are consistently, since pr's banning, hands down the single most offended poster on this forum... and to be frank, for all of pr's xenophobia and hatefulness he never really had that cry-baby persona that you have. You throw tantrums over comic book characters, over movies, over articles that are objectively proven false (that you then throw a tantrum over people calling them false)... and yet want to turn around and talk about how everyone else gets offended over nothing, how you are just a suave troll trying to feed off of outrage culture.

If there is a more on the nose meme to describe your internet persona, I'm not aware of it.

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/a5/c6/1b/a5c61b4869952d5a1b7a6ac2204f3fb7.jpg)

and yet, here you are, offended by what I've said. I mean I know self reflection isn't your strong point, but this pretense your above stigmas of being labeled as part of the easily offended of sjw culture, when in most of your posts, unless its about sports, you are seeking something to get offended by, tells me you can't face these things internally.

If this kinda thing, straight pride, which is made as a silly means of drawing out the easily offended, if you weren't so easily offended by something like this, why are you even here.

I've got little or prove myself, though its always interesting to see the reactions things like this has on people here.

Quote from: Munch on June 08, 2019, 09:15:53 PM
you just have to look at whats happened in south africa and white farmers for one example of white people facing oppression in that part of the world.

You mean those white farmers (and also the black farmhands, who get left out of the story) who are at a 20-year record low of violence against them?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/05/15/tucker-carlson-those-south-african-white-rights-activists-arent-telling-you-whole-truth/?utm_term=.293ba3bf93ba (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/05/15/tucker-carlson-those-south-african-white-rights-activists-arent-telling-you-whole-truth/?utm_term=.293ba3bf93ba)

QuoteWhat’s more, as you can see in the figures below, since 2010, the rate of “farm attacks” has declined even more quickly than that of other contact crimes across South Africa. In 2017-2018, there were 62 murders on farms in South Africa. Out of a total population of more than 800,000 farm residents, that’s about 5.7 murders per 100,000 people. By contrast, nationally the rate is 35.8 murders per 100,000 people. (While not all farmers are white, the government doesn’t yet have a racial breakdown of the agricultural population. The government is currently undertaking an agricultural census, which will provide more complete data on the agricultural sector.) We do know, however, that of those 62 people killed in “farm murders” in 2017-2018, the government reports that 46 of the victims were white.

https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/farm-murder-rate-lowest-in-20-years-remoteness-the-reason-for-brutality-20180531 (https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/farm-murder-rate-lowest-in-20-years-remoteness-the-reason-for-brutality-20180531)

QuoteFarm murders have decreased to their lowest level in more than 20 years, a report by agricultural organisation AgriSA has found.

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 08, 2019, 09:09:05 PM
Yet their are struggles of CIS white able bodied people in the modern world. Your thinking that the people that are not CIS, white, able bodied, should only have parades celebrating them because they struggled more? That's such rubbish. It should be celebrating humans as a whole not part unless your willing to see the flaws in such a notion.

Also if you look at history theirs so many struggles within white history with white people, CIS, and able bodied people, are you telling me your too lazy to look it up or your saying because your -----, gives you the right to be proud and celebrate history or have a parade?

You and Munch really need to work on your reading comprehension. It's not about who suffers more. I never once said that, nor did anyone else. It's about the cause of their suffering. Name one person who has suffered BECAUSE they were straight. Not straight people who happened to suffer; people who suffered because they were straight.

Quote from: Munch on June 08, 2019, 08:27:27 PM
okay, lets tell it like it is.

Infact, Draconic Aiur already did. This has nothing to do with sexual rights

The thing about being dishonest is that you can only do it once and you've crippled your credibility and sabotaged your own reputation.  Now no one needs to take what you say seriously again.

Quoteand yet, here you are, offended by what I've said.

I'm not offended by what you said, I'm annoyed that you will consistently lie through your teeth and not show an inch of self-reflection.

Don't mistake distaste for your childish antics as offense. I'm not offended by an 8 year old throwing a hissy fit, I'm annoyed.

Quote... if you weren't so easily offended by something like this, why are you even here.

Because I know your dumb ass would be in here spreading shit like, "WhItE fArMeRs In AfRiCa!" or whatever other false bullshit you felt like spewing out on the forum today.

Quote from: Hydra009 on June 08, 2019, 09:31:54 PM
The thing about being dishonest is that you can only do it once and you've crippled your credibility and sabotaged your own reputation.  Now no one needs to take what you say seriously again.

and if I don't give a shit about what those who don't take me seriously think, what have I lost exactly?

Quote from: Munch on June 08, 2019, 09:33:41 PM
and if I don't give a shit about what those who don't take me seriously think, what have I lost exactly?

Integrity and dignity, though I guess you cant lose something you never apparently had.

Here, let me get this out of the way...

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/16620/production/_91408619_55df76d5-2245-41c1-8031-07a4da3f313f.jpg)

(https://www.dailydot.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/npc-meme.jpg)

(https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/8415fe99d52fa8b123111a6826ccb317)

There. I laid out the whole Right Wing playbook so you no longer have to, Munch. Thread over.

Quote from: Shiranu on June 08, 2019, 09:32:44 PM
I'm not offended by what you said, I'm annoyed that you will consistently lie through your teeth and not show an inch of self-reflection.

Don't mistake distaste for your childish antics as offense. I'm not offended by an 8 year old throwing a hissy fit, I'm annoyed.

Because I know your dumb ass would be in here spreading shit like, "WhItE fArMeRs In AfRiCa!" or whatever other false bullshit you felt like spewing out on the forum today.

Okay, let me tell you a story.

A friend of mine I meet 15 years ago, in my local town, turned out he and his family were from south Africa, white south Africans, who due to their business had to work overseas 6 months of the year. I only got to see him so often because he had to move to and from england and south africa due to his families business.
I lost contact with him, I didn't know what happened to him, until 4-5 years ago, when I got word of what happened. He and his family had to move from their family home in south africa because of it being burned down along with several other homes in the area he once lived. they lost their livelihood, and had to struggle to start a new life here in the uk.

Maybe your social justice teachers tell you stuff like this doesn't happen because only people of color ever suffer, but given I've got a friend who did suffer though the attacks that occurred there based on there skin color, calling what I've said about this bullshit, its frankly an insult to my friend.

Quote from: Munch on June 08, 2019, 09:33:41 PM
and if I don't give a shit about what those who don't take me seriously think, what have I lost exactly?

You lose what you care about the most: attention.

Quote from: Hydra009 on June 08, 2019, 09:44:45 PM
You lose what you care about the most: attention.

Its never been about attention. I came to this forum in the hopes of finding like minded people who had more open mindedness, figuring atheism was a window to that, that casting off rhetoric of religion would be an easily place to discuss stuff.
Sadly what I found is rhetoric just takes another form, social rhetoric based on just as crocked principles as any religion here. When people are bound to certain ideals they don't care to think outside that bubble.

The only thing I'm disappointed in that people who should be able to recognize there own rhetoric as bad as those they often accuse of just can't manage to do so.

I'm frustrated but not fully rage on. I'm only giving my reasoning and trying to have you understand the negative aspects on what your're defending to which ignoring, being victimized and issuing a ad hominem attack. Also giving that EVERYONE should matter, not just the few, and we should take pride in ourselves as long as we are not oppressing people in our pride(even though the most extreme think everything is offensive and oppressive even peanut butter).

I'm a humanitarian that wants to celebrate EVERYONE not just the LGBT or people who aren't white or handicapped. So for a simple matter of parading even though I think it's ridiculous should be celebrated because its funny and because it's just.

Quote from: Blackleaf on June 08, 2019, 09:37:41 PM
Here, let me get this out of the way...

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/16620/production/_91408619_55df76d5-2245-41c1-8031-07a4da3f313f.jpg)

(https://www.dailydot.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/npc-meme.jpg)

(https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/8415fe99d52fa8b123111a6826ccb317)

There. I laid out the whole Right Wing playbook so you no longer have to, Munch. Thread over.

Ah the "if you don't agree with me you must be a republican" Bullshit

The straight pride parade completely misses the point of its lgbt counterpart. The whole point of gay/lgbt pride events is to celebrate the side of sexual identity that has been historically repressed or oppressed by various cultures on Earth.

The straight pride movement completely misses the point. No one has ever been oppressed at the societal level for being straight, and straight people are not excluded from pride events (indeed, participation is often encouraged). This is simply a conservative backlash movement trying to paint a false "us vs them" narrative.

But they are oppressed by militant "woke" SJW's in today's society that say's straight people should be ashamed of their own sexuality because their involvement in oppressing gay people in the past and present and saying straight people should not have pride in themselves and should not have privilege like gay privilege. You yourself are saying that's when you are saying: there should be no parade for straight people because lack history as oppressed or because they're not a minority. This logic reasoning is harmful and a negative aspect of diversity and multiculturalism.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be proud and themselves for LGBT or indigenous people's oppression throughout the ages I'm saying everyone should be proud of each one's self because we're all human. And no human should be left out because they are different.

QuoteBut they are oppressed by militant "woke" SJW's in today's society that say's straight people should be ashamed of their own sexuality...

Honest question here...

Who the fuck gives a shit what people like that think?

I mean seriously, who fucking cares? I know I sure as hell don't. And if you do... why?


They don't have power, particularly in America. They aren't anywhere close to having power, and given the conservative nature of America (even our progressives are still operating in a very conservative view of the world) they never will have power.

If there was one Congressman, one President, one Supreme Court Justice, one District Attorney, anything, then I certainly would understand... but these type of people literally have no power on American politics, and basically none on our social policy as well.

Quote...there should be no parade for straight people because lack history as oppressed or because they're not a minority.

I don't have an inherent problem with a straight pride parade if it is genuinely intended to show pride in one's own identity, though I would find it a bit silly. The problem is that this parade is specifically to be antagonistic towards another identity, not to celebrate one's own. There should not be a place in civilized society for demonstrations that are explicitly about antagonizing or hurting other people.

I am personally against Klansmen being allowed to congregate, particularly if they wanted to do so in black neighbourhoods. Likewise, I would be personally against Black Hebrew Israelites (a strongly anti-white community) being given the right to congregate in public and do demonstrations in white communities.


Edit - And I do realise there is also an inherent slippery slope to that position of what counts as intentionally antagonistic, but even you two are agreeing the whole point of this is to be obnoxious and hateful. When even people who agree with it think it's antagonistic, then I feel safe in saying it's antagonistic.

No we are not agreeing the whole point of making a straight parade is to be obnoxious and hateful. You are. Your're putting words in our mouths again.

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 08, 2019, 10:59:12 PM
No we are not agreeing the whole point of making a straight parade is to be obnoxious and hateful. You are. Your're putting words in our mouths again.

Okay, your right, you have been pretty consistent that it has anything to do with straight pride. My apologies.

That said, it also doesn't change the fact that... again, who is oppressing straight people? Tell me one politician in America who is oppressing straight people. Tell me one city that has enacted laws that limit the rights of straight people? Cite one example of police brutality, or even civilian brutality, against a straight couple for being straight. How many straight people were tortured by legal organizations to turn them gay?

These things are THE reason, the explicit reason, that there is a gay pride parade. Yes, it's about expressing pride in one's identity... but the entire reason they feel they have to express pride in their identity is because it's been suppressed and oppressed for literally millennia.

When people say there needs to be a straight pride celebration because there is a gay one, they imply that there is somewhat equal footing between the two groups, when there is not. The entire premise is, at best, based on a false narrative; at worse, in cases like this, based on one intending to cause division and chaos. And it ultimately either ignores or worse tries to make something intended to celebrate peoples success through hardship into a conversation all about themselves.

That is what I, and I assume 99% of people, have a problem with. And I am sure there are probably a few psychopath idiots on blogs who are actually frothing at the lips because how dare straight people get a parade, but literally no one here and no one in the real world agrees with those people or supports them.

Edit - Separated into two posts, because it's two distinct train of thoughts...

It's like demanding a "White Heritage Month" just because there is an "African American Heritage Month". I am 110% in favour of increasing the amount of cultural celebrations we have in the United States; I would love to see more Italian-American, Greek-American, English-American, Irish-American, German-American, French, Dutch, Belgian, Polish, Czech, Russian, Hungarian, etc. cultural celebrations in the United States, and more celebration of the achievements and successes of people of these ethnic groups. I think that would be fucking amazing.

But being "White" is borderline not an identity, and certainly no more than being "Straight" is. There is a culture around the LGBT+ community to celebrate, but there is simply no "culture" to being straight; other than sharing an attraction to the opposite sex there is nothing within that identity that would tie two or more people together. There are no historical hardships, no success stories, nothing to celebrate about being straight.

If people want to celebrate it, again... that's fine, even if I find it as silly as, "Breathing Pride Day!". But this is not a celebration, this is antagonization. It would be like telling people on Veterans Day, "WHY ISN'T THERE A CIVILIANS DAY, HUHHHHH??". It's technically not wrong, but it completely misses the point.

I hate every pride parades.

You know who also hates pride parades? Gay people that want to live normal lives. I bet right now, your woke brain is thinking I want gays, trans, etc. to stay in the closet, hmmm? You guys are insufferable. I see the same shit on this straight pride parade, it's a straight out troll (see what I did there?) of the political flavor, that's all it is. I don't buy this all-inclusivity shit, but I didn't buy that from LGBT+ pride parades either.

I also find it laughable that people here think that LGBT+ pride parades is somehow a display of the historical struggles of LGBT+ rights. It's not. If you want to know about that, read a history book. It's a celebration, sure, but it's devoid of the true struggles people had to endure. There's an annual festival here called Ã"lavsøka, which is also pretty devoid of its historical meaning, and is just an excuse to go on a 3 day drinking binge for most. Everyone has their struggles. I'm more concerned about actual human rights abuses than some pride parade. And want to know where the shit hits the fan? Muslim majority countries, where you'd definitely not find a LGBT+ pride parade.

Not to derail too much, but I will anyways; struggles to attain human rights for people is where the ball should be played. If it takes picketing, then do that. I just hope we can be really progressive enough to see that we can change things and attain human rights without violence. But who am I kidding - people are violent and only take action when shit hits the fan.

Have your big annual festival, I want no part in it, and that should be OK too.

QuoteHave your big annual festival, I want no part in it, and that should be OK too.

And it is.

Of course, I completely disagree that it's not a celebration of LGBT+ culture, but to each their own.

Quote from: Sal1981 on June 08, 2019, 11:34:24 PM
I hate every pride parades.

You know who also hates pride parades? Gay people that want to live normal lives. I bet right now, your woke brain is thinking I want gays, trans, etc. to stay in the closet, hmmm? You guys are insufferable. I see the same shit on this straight pride parade, it's a straight out troll (see what I did there?) of the political flavor, that's all it is. I don't buy this all-inclusivity shit, but I didn't buy that from LGBT+ pride parades either.

I also find it laughable that people here think that LGBT+ pride parades is somehow a display of the historical struggles of LGBT+ rights. It's not. If you want to know about that, read a history book. It's a celebration, sure, but it's devoid of the true struggles people had to endure. There's an annual festival here called Ã"lavsøka, which is also pretty devoid of its historical meaning, and is just an excuse to go on a 3 day drinking binge for most. Everyone has their struggles. I'm more concerned about actual human rights abuses than some pride parade. And want to know where the shit hits the fan? Muslim majority countries, where you'd definitely not find a LGBT+ pride parade.

Not to derail too much, but I will anyways; struggles to attain human rights for people is where the ball should be played. If it takes picketing, then do that. I just hope we can be really progressive enough to see that we can change things and attain human rights without violence. But who am I kidding - people are violent and only take action when shit hits the fan.

Have your big annual festival, I want no part in it, and that should be OK too.

Such a pessimist lol

Pride parade goeth before the fall.  All odd people need to be self-identified, before the coming purge ...

Quote from: Munch on June 08, 2019, 09:15:53 PM
you just have to look at whats happened in south africa and white farmers for one example of white people facing oppression in that part of the world.

All White males deserve what they have coming (Karl Marx appendix 25a).  It is all part of the post-modern Trotsky-ite narrative control.

The reality isn't political.  It is war of everyone against everyone else.  It only looks better when Blacks are doing it?

Quote from: Hydra009 on June 08, 2019, 08:23:34 PM
Last time I checked, no one bats an eye at two straight people getting married, no one gets disowned for coming out as straight, there are no straight conversion camps, no "straight bashing", job discrimination, etc.

Honestly, I wish you guys would be more honest about your approach and just admit that this is really just about triggering the Left by adopting the mannerisms without the substance.  I dunno how you two feel about SJWs, but they're the last people on Earth I'd try to emulate.  And as vile as their tactics are, at least the SJWs can semi-convincingly argue that they're just trying to make the world a better place.  Can these right-wing SJW wannabes say the same?

In politics, I can't agree that gays etc are innocent.  We are all monsters in the closet.  If I support gay marriage for instance, it has nothing to do with fantasy that gays are innocent (of sexual immorality).  Any more than straight people are innocent (of sexual immorality).  It is because I support marriage.  Not because I think anyone has any rights to anything.

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 08, 2019, 07:53:12 PM
It's because the left can't see that they oppress CIS gender for existing because the pain they felt during oppression that makes it Ironic. Yes LBGT are more oppressed than CIS, but that doesn't make the insecurities and injustice wrong on both accounts. This is why trolls give off so easily, because the left doesn't realize what they do when they heavily, militarize their ideas and oppress others is exactly what the right does and whom they swore to defeat.

Munch looks at this topic and sees the comic irony and y'all get offended to prove point. Also because it's so true and that CIS should have their own parade like a parade for Caucasian people, which again would simultaneous explode because yet y'all have no reasonable logic that explains that we are all human and should have pride in ourselves not because we are one labeled few but because we are different and theirs nothing wrong with being different.

Honestly the social construct of the victim has been shoved down our throats too long many people are getting tired of it. Even down the very people who agree to an extent with leftist politics, are getting mocked and belittled by SJW's for not being on the left enough.

People like Munch don't fit into the convenient Leftist stereotype that meets the needs of the Left, just like Black people who don't hate Trump.

Quote from: Blackleaf on June 08, 2019, 08:58:21 PM
A-sexuals are included in the LGBT+, you goddamn moron. As are the polyamorous, and anyone who isn't straight or cis. Some people have taken to using the term GRSM (Gender, Romantic, and Sexual Minorities) instead, because it's more clear about who it includes, but Jesus Christ. You should know this stuff already. At least, you would, if you actually listened to people on the Left instead of listening to what right wing YouTubers tell you we have to say.

But what about Bestiality and Necrophilia?  Will they get their own Congressional support committee?

Quote from: aitm on June 08, 2019, 09:14:25 PM
saw a great post on FB "isn't straight pride the same as the drive thru lanes a a Chix-Fil-A?

If you don't like the chicken, have a hamburger.

Quote from: Baruch on June 09, 2019, 03:15:21 AM
If you don't like the chicken, have a hamburger.

------------------------->




               .

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 08, 2019, 10:25:13 PM
But they are oppressed by militant "woke" SJW's in today's society

No they're not.

Any group or non-group can have a parade for all I care--I don't go to any of them--all parades and rodeo's are the height of boring!!

Quote from: Mike Cl on June 09, 2019, 09:44:43 AM
Any group or non-group can have a parade for all I care--I don't go to any of them--all parades and rodeo's are the height of boring!!

I don't understand the importance of parades.  It's amazing that from New York City to Podunk that townspeople will line up on the streets to watch things go by.  Until I was ten, I thought parades were fascinating, but it may have been because my parents told me they were.  Without their perspective, I'm not sure what I would have thought about a crowd of people walking down the street in a long line.  When I was a Cub Scout, I was in a parade, but I can't remember how I felt about it.  I think I was supposed to feel important, but I don't think I felt much of anything.  My parents told me to go be in the parade with my friends, so I was in the parade because I did what my parents told me.

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 08, 2019, 10:03:00 PM
Ah the "if you don't agree with me you must be a republican" Bullshit

Didn't say that, either. My point was that Munch was playing from the Alt-Right playbook, not thinking for himself.

"That doesn't sound very inclusive."

"Clown world."

I mean, seriously. Aside from climate change, has Munch expressed any opinion in this forum in the last six months that wouldn't fit right in on the David Crowder show?

EDIT: To clarify, I am quite well aware that Munch is "Left of Center," according to some online surveys. But let me ask you something. If someone says they are on the side of the victim, but they oppose every attempt to help the victim, and even try to define the abuser as the real "victim," who's side are they really on? When the Alt-Right consistently spread Right Wind propaganda, are they functionally any different from the Right or are they just paying worthless lip service?

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 08, 2019, 10:25:13 PM
But they are oppressed by militant "woke" SJW's in today's society that say's straight people should be ashamed of their own sexuality because their involvement in oppressing gay people in the past and present and saying straight people should not have pride in themselves and should not have privilege like gay privilege. You yourself are saying that's when you are saying: there should be no parade for straight people because lack history as oppressed or because they're not a minority. This logic reasoning is harmful and a negative aspect of diversity and multiculturalism.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be proud and themselves for LGBT or indigenous people's oppression throughout the ages I'm saying everyone should be proud of each one's self because we're all human. And no human should be left out because they are different.

I like how you completely ignored my challenge to find one person who has suffered because they were straight. You willingly ignore the point so your narrative doesn't have to be challenged.

Quote from: Baruch on June 09, 2019, 03:13:17 AM
But what about Bestiality and Necrophilia?  Will they get their own Congressional support committee?

Are "animal" or "dead person" considered gender or sexual identities? No? Then why would bestiality or necrophilia be included? You're starting to sound like the Conservatives who equate the LGBT with pedophiles.

Quote from: Blackleaf on June 09, 2019, 02:35:26 PM
I like how you completely ignored my challenge to find one person who has suffered because they were straight. You willingly ignore the point so your narrative doesn't have to be challenged.

The problem with the way your coming across, is how while Drac is making it clear he thinks all genders and sexuality and races should be treated equally without persecution, you are going out of your way to claim such a thing doesn't occur to certain demographics.

Lets take domestic violence for example. When woman suffer domestic violence in the modern day, their are now strong laws and public protection of women when they suffer it, there are shelters, support roles, and its taken seriously.

But what about men in domestic violence? Are they taken as seriously?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEZH6YSQvwA

https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/ignoring-male-victims-sexual-violence-conflict-short-sighted-and-wrong
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence

Records show men in these kinds of situations are not taken as seriously as when it happens to women. And why is that? Why is there such a stigma today that men can't be victims of domestic violence compared to women?

This is one example of the mindset of people today who form these opinions of straight guys, the media and public services are less likely to come to their aid, almost as if they don't have to take it as seriously as any other demographic, Hmmmmmm.

Nobody has a right to preach about progressivism if they are incapable of understanding the entire spectrum. Modern SJWs attack people for the way they are born, straight, white and male, because of shit that happened in the past.

Of course now your gonna say its all bullshit and its not happening or its not a big deal and just ignore it.

Munch says "Modern SJWs attack people for the way they are born, straight, white and male, because of shit that happened in the past".

I'm a straight white male.

But Baruch calls me a SJW for the opposite reason (sometimes as an insult and sometimes not) and I am still a straight white male.  How am I both the target and the arrow?

I don't understand what is like to be gay,and gays don't understand what is is like to straight.  As an atheist, I can understand what it is like to be a disliked minority, but at the same time, I'm a straight white guy who know he was born to a certain level of benefit-by-birth.

I can't help that, so what do I do?

I'm not going to vote for a gay guy (or lesbian or other) just because of what they are any more than I voted for Obama just because he is  "black" or supported Hillary Clinton because she was a woman.  I thought Obama was the best Dem candidate (and it was a hard choice) and general election choice because of the person he was and Clinton in 2016 because of who she was.   

Where do I get off the SJW AND non-SJW train?

I've never myself accused you of being an SJW. However I feel there are those on the left/liberal side a bit to forgiving of sjws, not seeing the problems they create. Its the same issue with conservatives who are a bit to forgiving of those on the far right.

Both should distance themselves from these kinds of people, otherwise they get given a platform to spread hate and unrest.

Quote from: Blackleaf on June 09, 2019, 02:32:49 PM
Didn't say that, either. My point was that Munch was playing from the Alt-Right playbook, not thinking for himself.

Wow. really dude. You just said it.

Quote from: Blackleaf on June 09, 2019, 02:35:26 PM
I like how you completely ignored my challenge to find one person who has suffered because they were straight. You willingly ignore the point so your narrative doesn't have to be challenged.

Candice Wiggins
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/feb/21/candace-wiggins-stanford-university-basketball

Quote from: Cavebear on June 09, 2019, 05:28:30 PM
Where do I get off the SJW AND non-SJW train?

It's more the far left SJW is what I'm talking about because in reality I can be just as SJW as anyone but I don't take things as far as most SJW's, which I have a problem with. It's impossible in today's age of enlightenment.

Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on June 09, 2019, 08:31:02 AM
No they're not.

Yes they are. You are conforming to the epistemology or social constructs of today's society. And you choose to ignore it compared to the media's portrayal of the "most oppressed".

Munch, do you think that someone who has misgivings and concerns about this 'Straight Pride'... whatever it is... may have a good reason for holding them? Because I sure do. I'm concerned that this SP whatchamacallit is a conservative dog whistle, the same way that "traditional family values," or "think of the children" are dog whistles. 'Straight Pride' sounds innocuous, along with its ostensible descriptor, but then if it didn't it would defeat the purpose of a dog whistle.

Does anyone who take umbrage to a Straight Pride parade automatically an SJW in your book?

If so, why?

If not, does not Blackleaf have some point in thinking that this Straight Pride thing may have more sinister connotations, even if it is unintended, and even if SJWs are taking it too far?

Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on June 09, 2019, 07:24:27 PM
Munch, do you think that someone who has misgivings and concerns about this 'Straight Pride'... whatever it is... may have a good reason for holding them? Because I sure do. I'm concerned that this SP whatchamacallit is a conservative dog whistle, the same way that "traditional family values," or "think of the children" are dog whistles. 'Straight Pride' sounds innocuous, along with its ostensible descriptor, but then if it didn't it would defeat the purpose of a dog whistle.

Does anyone who take umbrage to a Straight Pride parade automatically an SJW in your book?

If so, why?

If not, does not Blackleaf have some point in thinking that this Straight Pride thing may have more sinister connotations, even if it is unintended, and even if SJWs are taking it too far?

So your saying it could be sinister or fake? Maybe. However its most often like the slogan "It's okay to be white" will have later sinister effects of the bigoted because they're a bunch of dicks.  The parade is for straight pride but most think of that as bigoted which is their emotions going crazy and their victimization is more important than other peoples rights or freedoms.

Quote from: Draconic AiurYes they are. You are conforming to the epistemology or social constructs of today's society. And you choose to ignore it compared to the media's portrayal of the "most oppressed".

Bitch I don’t even have television service and I hardly ever listen to my car’s radio. Your rants about “the media” mean nothing to me. I have taken actual university courses on this shit. I know the historical and sociological context of anti-lgbt oppression and heterosexual hegemony. If I say straight people aren’t oppressed, it’s because they aren’t. If you don’t want my educated opinion, feel free to fuck off. I didn’t pay thousands of dollars to study this shit just to have some jackoff recite Conservapedia bullshit to me.

Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on June 09, 2019, 07:24:27 PM
Munch, do you think that someone who has misgivings and concerns about this 'Straight Pride'... whatever it is... may have a good reason for holding them? Because I sure do. I'm concerned that this SP whatchamacallit is a conservative dog whistle, the same way that "traditional family values," or "think of the children" are dog whistles. 'Straight Pride' sounds innocuous, along with its ostensible descriptor, but then if it didn't it would defeat the purpose of a dog whistle.

Does anyone who take umbrage to a Straight Pride parade automatically an SJW in your book?

If so, why?

If not, does not Blackleaf have some point in thinking that this Straight Pride thing may have more sinister connotations, even if it is unintended, and even if SJWs are taking it too far?

I'm very much an intermediate when it comes to values. I think you need to have ways to allow people from different walks of life to be able to have those things, be it like you said conservative values like traditional family values or protecting children. Same time you need ways for people who say don't have or want children to now be burdened by those who have or live by less traditional means.

SJWs always take things to far, thats why they are labeled as such. If people find sinister implications in something like this, it just seems ridiculous to do so, given the times we live in. As I've said, we have an entire month dedicated to LGBT, all other forms of sexuality, in celebration of it and what it represents. The fact we even have something like that is a sign of the times we live in,

So them have a bunch of straight dudes having their own march isn't in any way going to undermine that, and I'm not going to find offense in it, because even if there genuinely was some sinister motive behind it, it really isn't going to do anything because of it.

Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on June 09, 2019, 07:59:20 PM
Bitch I don’t even have television service and I hardly ever listen to my car’s radio. Your rants about “the media” mean nothing to me. I have taken actual university courses on this shit. I know the historical and sociological context of anti-lgbt oppression and heterosexual hegemony. If I say straight people aren’t oppressed, it’s because they aren’t. If you don’t want my educated opinion, feel free to fuck off. I didn’t pay thousands of dollars to study this shit just to have some jackoff recite Conservapedia bullshit to me.

no offense, well, maybe some, but modern sjws are born from modern sociology teachings in universities. My own boyfriend witnessed this himself when he attended his university in scotland to study computer engineering, and witnessed the kinds of 'enlightened' individuals who think the same thing, that everyone who isn't part of the clique is a far right nazi and they are going to save the world by battling the evil conservatives. 

I think when it comes to minority groups, assemblies make sense.  Not to raise a new subject, but you may have read about a woman who had high testosterone levels and was ordered to take a drug that reduced it or stop participating in "womens sports".  My immediate reaction was "hell no"!  But then I read a letter that explained that womens sports only exist because it allows women to compete among themselves fairly. 

It set me back in my chair.  I don't know the right answer to this question, but I see some sense to the decision even though I don't LIKE it.  To make  some things "equal", allowances have to be made. 

I don't know if I'm making any sense here, its difficult.

And the same is true for some other groups.   I wish it wasn't so.  But the LGBTQ community needs a bit of leeway to organize and collect themselves.

One day about December 1986, I stumbled across a Dial An Atheist 800 number in the course of my job.  I called it as soon as I got home.  It mentioned a "Solstice Gathering" nearby.  I went.  Back then, I thought I was the only atheist in the world other than that "Crazy Woman".  So I stood in the doorway and saw others there, "just like me".  I just stared in shock at first...  People like me...

Everyone deserves the company of their kind in the difficult parts of their lives...   John Lennon said "Let It Be".  Paul Simon said "Diamonds On The Soles Of His Shoes".

Let it be...

You won't believe what the radio just played after I typed this.  Yes, "Let It Be".  OK, I'm hitting post...

Quote from: Munch on June 09, 2019, 08:27:33 PM
no offense, well, maybe some, but modern sjws are born from modern sociology teachings in universities. My own boyfriend witnessed this himself when he attended his university in scotland to study computer engineering, and witnessed the kinds of 'enlightened' individuals who think the same thing, that everyone who isn't part of the clique is a far right nazi and they are going to save the world by battling the evil conservatives. 

Yeah, and anti-vaxxers are born from the University of Google, does that mean we should discard all knowledge gained from one of the most advanced research tools ever known to man? Obviously not.

My professors were not SJWs, nor were most of my classmates.For every anecdote you have, I probably have at least one that runs contrary and vice-versa. So I suggest we not play the anecdote game and focus on things we can all independently verify.

Quoteit just seems ridiculous to do so, given the times we live in.

"Given the times we live in"? You mean the times where we have a self-proclaimed Theocrat as the Vice President of the strongest Western nation? The times we live in where we have an extremely socially conservative Supreme Court? The times we live in where LGBT+ rights and protections, particularly in regards to housing and healthcare, are being undermined in multiple states across the union without any hope of the Federal government protecting them? The times we live in where the number of violent attacks on transgendered Americans, particularly transgendered Americans of colours, are on the rise?

Those times we live in? You really don't see how an event intentionally meant to steal attention from, and demean, the LGBT community and those who stand up for their rights is a problem in those times we live in?

By the way, multiple posters have asked now and we have yet to get a response...

Who, exactly, is oppressing the straights? Can we please get a Congressman, a President, a Governor, a Justice, a Judge, a police department, corporations and churches, anyone who is oppressing them? What laws are currently enacted that strip rights away from straight people for being straight? How many straight people are attacked on the street for being a straight couple?


Anyone?

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 09, 2019, 07:31:22 PM
So your saying it could be sinister or fake? Maybe. However its most often like the slogan "It's okay to be white" will have later sinister effects of the bigoted because they're a bunch of dicks.  The parade is for straight pride but most think of that as bigoted which is their emotions going crazy and their victimization is more important than other peoples rights or freedoms.

Can you blame them? You've already acknowledged that Straight Pride is "maybe" sinister or fake, yet you turn around to say that the parade is for straight pride as if its definitively for people taking pride in their straightness. Well, it wouldn't be a very good dog whistle if it didn't fool the unweary into thinking it's innocuous.

While it is important to defend rights and freedoms against the victimization complexes of twits, it's also important to be good stewards of those rights and freedoms. I do not believe this is a good use of the right and freedom of assembly. If straight people had from the start given gay people the same shot at life, treat them as first class citizens, and their sexuality treated as if a it were a preference for a flavor of ice cream, then I don't believe for a damn second there would have ever been or be a gay pride parade for straights to ape. Whatever it is now, the gay pride parade is an artifact of oppression, and quite obviously so. To copy an artifact of oppression, by the oppressors no less, is really damn tacky at the very least. At worst, Munch in marching in SP may be legitimizing a movement that works against his interests. That thing you are supporting, may not be the thing you think you are supporting.

While offense by proxy is nonsense I can do without, I do acknowledge that they may have a point that someone may legitimately take issue with my words and actions. Unless you are the directly injured party, I'm not interested in your offense. But if you are, I don't want to needlessly antagonize you and if I offend I want to know about it, because I'm not That Guy. I try to exercise my rights and freedoms in the most harmless way possible (unless you somehow deserve it). That is what being a good steward of my rights and freedoms means: I exercise them for my benefit, and not to the detriment of anyone else.

If this was genuinely a dig at SJW twits, I would prefer it be a more surgical strike than this ham-fisted carpetbombing. My demographic has quite enough bad karma already, thank you very much.

Quote from: Cavebear on June 09, 2019, 08:30:19 PM
I think when it comes to minority groups, assemblies make sense.  Not to raise a new subject, but you may have read about a woman who had high testosterone levels and was ordered to take a drug that reduced it or stop participating in "womens sports".  My immediate reaction was "hell no"!  But then I read a letter that explained that womens sports only exist because it allows women to compete among themselves fairly. 

It set me back in my chair.  I don't know the right answer to this question, but I see some sense to the decision even though I don't LIKE it.  To make  some things "equal", allowances have to be made. 

I don't know if I'm making any sense here, its difficult.

And the same is true for some other groups.   I wish it wasn't so.  But the LGBTQ community needs a bit of leeway to organize and collect themselves.

One day about December 1986, I stumbled across a Dial An Atheist 800 number in the course of my job.  I called it as soon as I got home.  It mentioned a "Solstice Gathering" nearby.  I went.  Back then, I thought I was the only atheist in the world other than that "Crazy Woman".  So I stood in the doorway and saw others there, "just like me".  I just stared in shock at first...  People like me...

Everyone deserves the company of their kind in the difficult parts of their lives...   John Lennon said "Let It Be".  Paul Simon said "Diamonds On The Soles Of His Shoes".

Let it be...

You won't believe what the radio just played after I typed this.  Yes, "Let It Be".  OK, I'm hitting post...

The womens sports thing with some women having more testosterone is something needing to figure out balance wise. Its like the issue of trans sports players, where they belong on the spectrum, should people who were once men now women be allowed to compete in a womens sport, would that count as fair? Same if a woman became a man, could they compete in a mens sport the same as a regular man? This is a more complicated issue then just trying to be fair, because there are a lot of mitigating factors.

And yes, we as a species being descended from an ape like species are creatures that operate in group dynamics, so finding commonality in others is a drive most people have. That doesn't necessarily mean it has to be tied to just one aspect of what you are of course, your gender, your sexuality, maybe a disability, a common interest like gaming or reading. And yes, religion as much plays a part in that with people, just another form of group dynamic.

Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on June 09, 2019, 07:59:20 PM
Bitch I don’t even have television service and I hardly ever listen to my car’s radio. Your rants about “the media” mean nothing to me. I have taken actual university courses on this shit. I know the historical and sociological context of anti-lgbt oppression and heterosexual hegemony. If I say straight people aren’t oppressed, it’s because they aren’t. If you don’t want my educated opinion, feel free to fuck off. I didn’t pay thousands of dollars to study this shit just to have some jackoff recite Conservapedia bullshit to me.

Yet I am going to University level shit too, so don't play the "educated scholar" in front of an educated scholar and expect that your better because your opinion comes from your elitism.  Also stop stereotyping the left. Like all of us are the same. Seriously we are not apparently.

Quote from: Shiranu on June 09, 2019, 08:38:50 PM
Who, exactly, is oppressing the straights? Can we please get a Congressman, a President, a Governor, a Justice, a Judge, a police department, corporations and churches, anyone who is oppressing them? What laws are currently enacted that strip rights away from straight people for being straight? How many straight people are attacked on the street for being a straight couple?

Let me point out that pointing to another demographic in demonstration, even if it supports the notion of an ostensible victim victimizing an ostensible victimizer, is a red herring fallacy. You know who you are.

Quote from: Shiranu on June 09, 2019, 08:36:34 PM
"Given the times we live in"? You mean the times where we have a self-proclaimed Theocrat as the Vice President of the strongest Western nation? The times we live in where we have an extremely socially conservative Supreme Court? The times we live in where LGBT+ rights and protections, particularly in regards to housing and healthcare, are being undermined in multiple states across the union without any hope of the Federal government protecting them? The times we live in where the number of violent attacks on transgendered Americans, particularly transgendered Americans of colours, are on the rise?

Those times we live in? You really don't see how an event intentionally meant to steal attention from, and demean, the LGBT community and those who stand up for their rights is a problem in those times we live in?

are straight people having a parade going to stop gay marriage? Will it cause them to stop accepting blood donations from LGBTQ? Will is cause segregation as a result? I'm inclined to say no.
Also, its only people like yourself who create such a negative stigma around something like this that makes it an issue. Its like having a beer festival, yet if someone said alcohol killed a family member and so promoting beer drinking is offensive, should they stop such an event? Hardly, people just need to learn to suck it up.

Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on June 09, 2019, 08:48:45 PM
Can you blame them? You've already acknowledged that Straight Pride is "maybe" sinister or fake, yet you turn around to say that the parade is for straight pride as if its definitively for people taking pride in their straightness. Well, it wouldn't be a very good dog whistle if it didn't fool the unweary into thinking it's innocuous.

While it is important to defend rights and freedoms against the victimization complexes of twits, it's also important to be good stewards of those rights and freedoms. I do not believe this is a good use of the right and freedom of assembly. If straight people had from the start given gay people the same shot at life, treat them as first class citizens, and their sexuality treated as if a it were a preference for a flavor of ice cream, then I don't believe for a damn second there would have ever been or be a gay pride parade for straights to ape. Whatever it is now, the gay pride parade is an artifact of oppression, and quite obviously so. To copy an artifact of oppression, by the oppressors no less, is really damn tacky at the very least. At worst, Munch in marching in SP may be legitimizing a movement that works against his interests. That thing you are supporting, may not be the thing you think you are supporting.

While offense by proxy is nonsense I can do without, I do acknowledge that they may have a point that someone may legitimately take issue with my words and actions. Unless you are the directly injured party, I'm not interested in your offense. But if you are, I don't want to needlessly antagonize you and if I offend I want to know about it, because I'm not That Guy. I try to exercise my rights and freedoms in the most harmless way possible (unless you somehow deserve it). That is what being a good steward of my rights and freedoms means: I exercise them for my benefit, and not to the detriment of anyone else.

If this was genuinely a dig at SJW twits, I would prefer it be a more surgical strike than this ham-fisted carpetbombing. My demographic has quite enough bad karma already, thank you very much.

I was saying they "MIGHT" have one. Not admitting they are sinister. Stop cherry picking. Also the "sins of the father" and victimization based on the past are getting old really fast. Cultural and demographic appropriation is terrible.

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 09, 2019, 08:57:46 PM
I was saying they "MIGHT" have one. Not admitting they are sinister. Stop cherry picking.

I did not cherry pick. "MIGHT" means you acknowledge the possibility. That's all I need and all I took from that.

Quote
Also the "sins of the father" and victimization based on the past are getting old really fast. Cultural and demographic appropriation is terrible.

It's a reality. People do judge based on what others in your group do and did. It's part of the reason why we're in this clusterfuck right now, and you ignore it at your peril.

Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on June 09, 2019, 09:02:15 PM
It's a reality. People do judge based on what others in your group do and did. It's part of the reason why we're in this clusterfuck right now, and you ignore it at your peril.

Well fact is, these things are happening now, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't get to call others out on it. We live in a time of heavily social and political tension, and the open access to debate and conversation so easily now means there will be more shit flung either end of the spectrum.

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 09, 2019, 08:51:54 PMYet I am going to University level shit too, so don't play the "educated scholar" in front of an educated scholar and expect that your better because your opinion comes from your elitism.

"Elitism?" Lol, okay bud, now I know you're bullshitting.

"University level shit" is vague enough to include math 100, and certainly doesn't mean you've studied sociology (or more importantly passed the class). Also, your attempt at ad hominem doesn't change the fact that you clearly don't know your shit. You haven't even been able to name the oppressor(s) that are supposedly trying to take away straight rights. And no, "teh ebul SJWs" don't count. Which congressman, president, governor, justice, judge, police department, corporation, or church is exercising power on a large enough scale to be a credible threat to straight people? Back up your bullshit or STFU.

Ad hominems? Ok then.

Quoteare straight people having a parade going to stop gay marriage?

Yes.


Edit - I misread that as, "having a parade to stop gay marriage.". However those parades against LGBT+ rights do lead to an energized voting base that elects politicians who want to deny these groups of their rights, so in a not-so-very abstract way, they do still stop gay marriage.

QuoteWill it cause them to stop accepting blood donations from LGBTQ?

If certain churches and organizations had their way, probably.

QuoteWill is cause segregation as a result?

Probably not, since segregation is not what the anti-LGBT+ community want anyways.






None of which actually addressed the question we have asked you multiple times; how many straight rights are under attack? What laws currently put limitations and restrictions upon the rights of straight people? How many elected officials or people of power are actively (or even suggesting) oppression of straight people? How many straight people are being bullied, beaten, committing suicide, being killed because they are straight?

Quote from: Shiranu on June 09, 2019, 08:36:34 PM
"Given the times we live in"? You mean the times where we have a self-proclaimed Theocrat as the Vice President of the strongest Western nation? The times we live in where we have an extremely socially conservative Supreme Court? The times we live in where LGBT+ rights and protections, particularly in regards to housing and healthcare, are being undermined in multiple states across the union without any hope of the Federal government protecting them? The times we live in where the number of violent attacks on transgendered Americans, particularly transgendered Americans of colours, are on the rise?

Those times we live in? You really don't see how an event intentionally meant to steal attention from, and demean, the LGBT community and those who stand up for their rights is a problem in those times we live in?

The POTUS also floated the idea of straight up banning transgendered people from the military simply for being transgendered.

And I was a bit lazy to look it up until now but...

Mark Sahady, one of the organizers of the event, has said it's explicitly intended to, "Poke fun at the identity politics of the left".

It is explicitly not about straight pride, but rather being antagonistic. And again, I realise you don't see any problem with that... but that again only really says something about you and nothing else.

Quote from: Shiranu on June 09, 2019, 09:44:51 PM
Yes.


Edit - I misread that as, "having a parade to stop gay marriage.". However those parades against LGBT+ rights do lead to an energized voting base that elects politicians who want to deny these groups of their rights, so in a not-so-very abstract way, they do still stop gay marriage.

apparently you don't understand the law of the country you live in if you think that.

QuoteIf certain churches and organizations had their way, probably.

We're not governed by theocracy anymore, so again, nope.

Probably not, since segregation is not what the anti-LGBT+ community want anyways.

[/quote]

you sure, I thought they were evil incarnate.

QuoteNone of which actually addressed the question we have asked you multiple times; how many straight rights are under attack? What laws currently put limitations and restrictions upon the rights of straight people? How many elected officials or people of power are actively (or even suggesting) oppression of straight people? How many straight people are being bullied, beaten, committing suicide, being killed because they are straight?

Drac already gave you an example. regardless, acts committed against minority groups doesn't give carte blanche to act out in similar ways based on anyones gender or sexuality. You keep missing that point don't you? 

Roe V Wade is the law of the land.  Except in a large number of states.  Any woman has the right to have an abortion.  Unless they live in a growing number of states, then either they can't get one or there are not any clinics left that will do them.  I can foresee a day when Roe V Wade will still be in effect--except there won't be any clinics that will preform them in any state.  The right, if it can, will turn back the clock on gay rights and make it so difficult for gays to marry that it becomes impossible.  As a young, young adult, I felt racism was essentially dead; look at where we are now; white nationalism is now out in the open and gaining power every day.  When it comes to christians/conservatives they will do or say anything for what they term the 'greater good' or what they deem their values and morals.  We must never, ever assume that rights that have been achieved are not taken away. 

Quote from: Munch on June 09, 2019, 10:07:11 PM
apparently you don't understand the law of the country you live in if you think that.

US law is a bit less rigid than you seem to realize. It's not uncommon at all for the States and the Fed to contradict each other, and even though the Fed is supposed to trump the States, the latter still get their way fairly often. For example, outlawing or severely limiting abortion is unconstitutional, but states do it anyway. Cannabis is illegal for both medical and personal use at the federal level, yet many states legalized one or both unchallenged.

Gay marriage can and does still get interfered with by government officials at various levels. Sometimes it's punished. Other times it isn't. And the fact that officials can, with the support of vocal protestors, shut down gay marriage without consequences means these parades are a legitimate threat. Hardline conservatives in America are not as toothless as you seem to think they are. The old dog still has a bite that draws blood.

Quoteapparently you don't understand the law of the country you live in if you think that.

Please, explain it to me then. Because the last time I checked, elected politicians in my country vote on and pass laws and those laws effect the citizens of the region they were elected to govern.

But who knows, I might be wrong about that.

QuoteDrac already gave you an example. regardless, acts committed against minority groups doesn't give carte blanche to act out in similar ways based on anyones gender or sexuality. You keep missing that point don't you?

Yes, an example that other straight players in the WNBA say is simply not accurate, as well as calling out the fact she made derogatory remarks herself about the LGBT community. A person with a toxic attitude received a toxic response; who woulda thunk it?

If she did receive harassment because she was straight, then that is certainly wrong. However there is simply no evidence to point to that, and don't you think if it was the gay players looking to stick it to the straight players, other straight players would have been harassed as well?

I'm sorry, but I've seen you call bullshit on far less when African Americans, Muslims, women, etc. claim they were discriminated against. If you want to play that card, then tough shit when someone plays it back on you.

And yes, I keep on missing that point because literally no one is making it.

Or because your so shortsighted you can't see that not everything is black and white or not every liberal has to be stereotypical or on a crusade against conservatives. Clearly even then there is such thing as logic, and sociology and also philosophy your forgetting. But who am I kidding? Y'all  think zealously that everything that is liberal and left are your own bullshit and that logic and leftist ideology can only be stereotypical SJW PC shit.

I'm reminded of these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKcWu0tsiZM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlIjMJBSnRE

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 10, 2019, 05:41:00 AM
Or because your so shortsighted you can't see that not everything is black and white or not every liberal has to be stereotypical or on a crusade against conservatives. Clearly even then there is such thing as logic, and sociology and also philosophy your forgetting. But who am I kidding? Y'all  think zealously that everything that is liberal and left are your own bullshit and that logic and leftist ideology can only be stereotypical SJW PC shit.

Translation: "I don't have a rebuttal, so I'll just keep insulting you until you give up."

Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on June 10, 2019, 08:46:32 AM
Translation: "I don't have a rebuttal, so I'll just keep insulting you until you give up."

There have always been too much ad hominem here, from people who we would expect to be above average.

Munch - you aren't really oppressed unless you are at the train depot at Auschwitz.  Which, in the US, happens very single day because all White men are straight Nazis.

So far, actual criminal (not objectionable) anti-straight behavior is not much.  But that isn't the basis now, it is "someone was offended".  On that basis the US looks like Stalingrad 1942-43.

Quote from: Baruch on June 10, 2019, 08:51:01 AM
There have always been too much ad hominem here, from people who we would expect to be above average.

I just want someone to answer mine and Shiranu's question already. If straight people really are being oppressed, it should be an easy enough question to answer.

Which congressman, president, governor, justice, judge, police department, corporation, or church is exercising power on a large enough scale to be a credible threat to straight people?

Quote from: Hydra009 on June 09, 2019, 09:51:32 PM
The POTUS also floated the idea of straight up banning transgendered people from the military simply for being transgendered.

That was the law, until recently, under Clinton, Bush, Obama.  But exceptions were made, so I am told.

If you are physically or mentally ill (I do think that transgendered, but not gay people, are disturbed) then you are not fit enough to serve.  Most Americans for various reasons, aren't fit to serve.  When they do, things like Caine Mutiny happen.

Quote from: Shiranu on June 09, 2019, 08:36:34 PM
"Given the times we live in"? You mean the times where we have a self-proclaimed Theocrat as the Vice President of the strongest Western nation? The times we live in where we have an extremely socially conservative Supreme Court? The times we live in where LGBT+ rights and protections, particularly in regards to housing and healthcare, are being undermined in multiple states across the union without any hope of the Federal government protecting them? The times we live in where the number of violent attacks on transgendered Americans, particularly transgendered Americans of colours, are on the rise?

Those times we live in? You really don't see how an event intentionally meant to steal attention from, and demean, the LGBT community and those who stand up for their rights is a problem in those times we live in?

And don't you forget it (the theocrat).  Weak D party campaigning, with endless lame excuses, produced that.

Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on June 10, 2019, 08:57:29 AM
I just want someone to answer mine and Shiranu's question already. If straight people really are being oppressed, it should be an easy enough question to answer.

Which congressman, president, governor, justice, judge, police department, corporation, or church is exercising power on a large enough scale to be a credible threat to straight people?

The problem is that you both inserted a question unrelated to the subject, and then dismissed everything else because there wasn't an answer to the question you forced into the conversation. It had nothing to do with political and law figures, it has to do with the growing diatribe barfed out by people online and in political rallies, you see this shit on platforms like Twitter, Tumblr, YouTube, Facebook, and because of this it can be an influence to spread more negativity.

You look to politicians and law figures for being the fault of spreading negativity towards minorities, what about people on the platforms I mentioned spreading the same rhetoric about others based on their, skin, gender or sexuality, straight white men, because by having platforms that allow such rhetoric to go unchallenged, it creates as a means of spreading that same negativity, only it's not policed by law figures, but rather those who run said platforms and their own bias ideals.

Quote from: Blackleaf on June 09, 2019, 02:39:44 PM
Are "animal" or "dead person" considered gender or sexual identities? No? Then why would bestiality or necrophilia be included? You're starting to sound like the Conservatives who equate the LGBT with pedophiles.

Nope, just being provocative.  But Munch mentioned months ago, the Fabian slope of how other "sexual choices" are trying to find acceptance on the coattails of regular gay people.  That is real.

Sex acts, not sex identities.  Read more carefully.

Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on June 09, 2019, 07:59:20 PM
Bitch I don’t even have television service and I hardly ever listen to my car’s radio. Your rants about “the media” mean nothing to me. I have taken actual university courses on this shit. I know the historical and sociological context of anti-lgbt oppression and heterosexual hegemony. If I say straight people aren’t oppressed, it’s because they aren’t. If you don’t want my educated opinion, feel free to fuck off. I didn’t pay thousands of dollars to study this shit just to have some jackoff recite Conservapedia bullshit to me.

Clarifying, not opposing ...

Marxist identity theory.  White, male, Cis cannot be victims of oppression.  Because they have power and act on it.  Black, female, Gay cannot be oppressors.  Because they are powerless.  But bigotry is different.  Black, female or Gay can be bigoted.  But bigotry falls short of oppression, because oppression is bigotry plus power.

Where I disagree is on the Marxist spin.  Not all White, not all male, not all Cis are powerful.  Not all powerful act on it.  Not all Black, female or Gay power powerless.  But this gets tribal, where everyone as to choose sides and lose their individuality.

Marxism = how can I take systemic problems and make violent revolution
Capitalism = how can I take systemic problems and profit from them

I know which one I prefer, given that I don't think systemic problems are ever going away.
Marx never held an honest job in his life (intelligentsia doesn't count), he was a leach.

Quote from: Munch on June 10, 2019, 09:08:01 AM
The problem is that you both inserted a question unrelated to the subject, and then dismissed everything else because there wasn't an answer to the question you forced into the conversation. It had nothing to do with political and law figures, it has to do with the growing diatribe barfed out by people online and in political rallies, you see this shit on platforms like Twitter, Tumblr, YouTube, Facebook, and because of this it can be an influence to spread more negativity.

You look to politicians and law figures for being the fault of spreading negativity towards minorities, what about people on the platforms I mentioned spreading the same rhetoric about others based on their, skin, gender or sexuality, straight white men, because by having platforms that allow such rhetoric to go unchallenged, it creates as a means of spreading that same negativity, only it's not policed by law figures, but rather those who run said platforms and their own bias ideals.

You keep talking about these vague groups. I cannot investigate vague groups.

I am asking, in good faith, for you to give me something to investigate. I will give my honest opinion on whether or not the source(s) you name constitute a legitimate threat to straight rights, whether at a local or national level. I will not move the goal posts. If I find your evidence lacking, I will  tell you why and then simply ask if you have a better example. Very simple and straightforward. You may take your time finding evidence you think will convince me, just make sure to @ me so I’ll see it.


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Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on June 10, 2019, 09:31:24 AM
You keep talking about these vague groups. I cannot investigate vague groups.

I am asking, in good faith, for you to give me something to investigate. I will give my honest opinion on whether or not the source(s) you name constitute a legitimate threat to straight rights, whether at a local or national level. I will not move the goal posts. If I find your evidence lacking, I will  tell you why and then simply ask if you have a better example. Very simple and straightforward. You may take your time finding evidence you think will convince me, just make sure to @ me so I’ll see it.


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There are no Gay einsatz-gruppen going around liquidating Straight folks.  Yet.  They have to get the well tailored metro-sexual Nazi uniforms approved first.

Gay pride seem folkloric and ridiculous to me but it make me laugh (Stereotypes about gays and lesbians show in this event and costumes).
I think this event must exist even if I'm straight to recall us LGBTQ+ have the right to exist.
I saw gay pride as a political and funny event to say some LGBTQ+ assume what they are and are determined to defend theirs civil rights.

I'd like to recall some decade ago it was possible for LGBTQ+ to be prosecuted by justice in the majority of countries in the Western world.
Some time ago anal and oral sex in male to male relationship was illegal in some US states.
Some time ago anal and oral sex in straight relationship was illegal in some US states.
In 2003 sodomy laws were invalidated by Supreme Court of United States with Lawrence v. Texas (Full case name : John Geddes Lawrence and Tyron Garner v Texas , United States Reports : 539 U.S. 558 (Open the page 558 of United States Reports volume 539 to find the case))

This case law on Wikipedia : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas
Read the case law : https://www.loc.gov/item/usrep539558/
More about anti-sodomy laws in USA (Some of these are still in state statute even if unenforceable because of Lawrence v. Texas) : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_States

In Federal Republic of Germany homosexuality was illegal until 1969 because of sektion 175 of Strafgesetzbuch (Criminal code).
What was §175 StGB ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph_175

I cited only two Western countries as examples but there was in history many Western countries in which homosexuality was banned.
I refuse to forget all these life who were destroyed in the Western World and elsewhere because they had a different sexuality.


Even if LGBTQ+ in Western World can't be prosecuted by justice because of theirs sexual practices or appearances there are still people who are against their life mode who want to take their right (Christian fundies for examples) down.
We must not forget homosexuality is nowadays illegal in many parts of the world.
Read this item on Wikipedia about LGBTQ+ rights in the world : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory#LGBT-related_laws_by_country_or_territory

Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on June 09, 2019, 09:02:15 PM
ignore it at your peril.

Well......I didn't know you were an "elitist bitch"....but now that I do......er.......carry on.

Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on June 10, 2019, 08:46:32 AM
Translation: "I don't have a rebuttal, so I'll just keep insulting you until you give up."

Fuck You. You and Shinaru are the ones who started attacking me and now your playing the victim like always!

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 10, 2019, 04:54:21 PM
Fuck You. You and Shinaru are the ones who started attacking me and now your playing the victim like always!

I only attacked your argument, Drac. If you took it personally, that’s your problem.


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Argument? No you attacked me and ignored my argument and now you are denying it.

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 10, 2019, 05:15:40 PM
Argument? No you attacked me and ignored my argument and now you are denying it.

Best to get calmed down sir.  In the 19th century American South, you would have been in so many duels, your SO would stop trying to patch your shirts ;-)

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 10, 2019, 05:15:40 PM
Argument? No you attacked me and ignored my argument and now you are denying it.

The closest I have come to initiating a personal attack against you is when I made fun of your ad hominem attempts. Even then I was addressing your words, not your person.

You have called me names. You have sworn at me. These are attacks on my person, and they are unwarranted. You need to walk it back a bit.

Quote from: Munch on June 09, 2019, 09:06:31 PM
Well fact is, these things are happening now, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't get to call others out on it. We live in a time of heavily social and political tension, and the open access to debate and conversation so easily now means there will be more shit flung either end of the spectrum.

You're not going to achieve the moral high ground by purposefully antagonizing people. You're basically admitting to inviting the outrage, and that's exactly what you got. The moral impact of that kind of scenario is quite limited.

I mean, come on. The SJW twits don't need your help being offended by what you say and do. Why invite more crap? It's one thing if you were just minding your own business and you get attacked, but quite another to bait that kind of response purposefully. One is an actual moral high ground that might spur people to action; the other instead invites people to grab a box of popcorn and watch the fur fly.

I'm reminded of the old adage, "Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty, and the pig enjoys itself." And I'm not sure who the pig is representing here.

Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on June 10, 2019, 06:12:32 PM
You're not going to achieve the moral high ground by purposefully antagonizing people. You're basically admitting to inviting the outrage, and that's exactly what you got. The moral impact of that kind of scenario is quite limited.

I mean, come on. The SJW twits don't need your help being offended by what you say and do. Why invite more crap? It's one thing if you were just minding your own business and you get attacked, but quite another to bait that kind of response purposefully. One is an actual moral high ground that might spur people to action; the other instead invites people to grab a box of popcorn and watch the fur fly.

I'm reminded of the old adage, "Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty, and the pig enjoys itself." And I'm not sure who the pig is representing here.

Just to open a discussion then, what would you do about militant sjws, those in the system or in public positions who influence and push that toxic mindset, because that kind of behavior isn't something I'd ignore anymore then if joe hick wanted to ban abortions or gay marriage.

I'm done.

QuoteJust to open a discussion then, what would you do about militant sjws, those in the system or in public positions who influence and push that toxic mindset...

Vote them out, or disagree with them and call them on their bullshit if they were a public figure.

But... yet again... what militant SJWs are in charge of the system?

Quote...because that kind of behavior isn't something I'd ignore anymore then if joe hick wanted to ban abortions or gay marriage.

What, exactly, is a "militant SJW"? What are the exact qualifications, the criteria, to fit that?

I can tell you exactly who is anti-LGBT rights, who is anti-woman rights, pro-theocracy, a white supremacist, etc. ... they have clearly defined policy positions and social views.

Calling someone a "SJW" is meaningless though, because that term seems to have 100 meanings for every 100 hundred people. What you or pr consider a "SJW", I might agree with you 5%, 10% of the time. What, say, Hijiri thinks is nutty enough to be a SJW but maybe not "militant", you might see as the next coming of Hitler.

There is no real policy, no set definition of what a "SJW" is. It's the modern day equivalent of calling someone a "Commie". It's not a statement about their actual beliefs, just what you believe about them.

On the topic of gay pride parades and obnoxious trolls...

https://www.foxnews.com/us/white-nationalist-group-interrupts-detroit-pride-event-appear-to-urinate-on-israeli-flag (https://www.foxnews.com/us/white-nationalist-group-interrupts-detroit-pride-event-appear-to-urinate-on-israeli-flag)

QuoteA group of white nationalists marched on an LGBTQ event in Detroit on Saturday, demonstrating Nazi salutes and carrying weapons.

Members of the National Socialist Movement (NSM) caused outrage at the event meant to celebrate gay pride, and one member was photographed appearing to urinate on an Israeli flag.

The Motor City Pride is described on its Facebook event page as the largest pride month event in Michigan, with 40,000 people marked as attending. On Saturday, some individuals tried unsuccessfully to stop the NSM group from entering the streets, which were blocked off by police and lined with rainbow flags.

...

A prominent former NSM member, J.T. Ready, said in a blog post in 2008 that he felt permitted to protest because minority groups have done the same for their "sick" beliefs.

When you are using the same justification, and want to do a toned-down version of what literal Nazis are doing, surely that's a wakeup call to reevaluate your position, right?

Quote from: Shiranu on June 10, 2019, 07:48:15 PM
There is no real policy, no set definition of what a "SJW" is. It's the modern day equivalent of calling someone a "Commie". It's not a statement about their actual beliefs, just what you believe about them.

It's certainly a popular smear, and a very subjective one at that (right-wingers are particularly prone to false positives) but SJWs do have a rather stereotyped look, list of grievances, and tactics employed to try to change other people's behavior to their liking.  It's a bit nebulous, but it's not fictitious.

Though the 2016 election hit them pretty hard and they got a hell of a backlash from liberals, independents, and conservatives (sadly, it seems that the main thing conservatives hate about SJWs is that they're not on the right).

Honestly, idk why we're even talking about SJWs (or social injustice warriors) anymore.  They are alone. They are a dying people. We should let them pass.

QuoteIt's certainly a popular smear, and a very subjective one at that (right-wingers are particularly prone to false positives) but SJWs do have a rather stereotyped look, list of grievances, and tactics employed to try to change other people's behavior to their liking.  It's a bit nebulous, but it's not fictitious.

True, but I feel like you could say the same about "Commie"; there were certainly people who actually did fit the political and social mold of a communist, but the overwhelming majority of "commies" were simply people who held views slightly more progressive or socially aware than the person judging them (someone who was, at least socially, noticeably right-of-centre themselves).

Quote from: Shiranu on June 10, 2019, 08:31:08 PM
True, but I feel like you could say the same about "Commie"; there were certainly people who actually did fit the political and social mold of a communist, but the overwhelming majority of "commies" were simply people who held views slightly more progressive or socially aware than the person judging them (someone who was, at least socially, noticeably right-of-centre themselves).

I agree with that.  In fact, the red scare stuff is a fairly apt comparison.  They exist and they have some small influence, but not to the perceived extent.  People need to get a grip, and not just the SJWs anymore.

No matter how much I hate nazis, I wouldn't deny them their right of Free Speech.

In fact, I would use my own Free Speech to id who the nazis were, instead of letting such contentious viewpoints, both political and ideological, to fester underground, and instead argue with them using logic and reasoning. That is favorable to throwing bricks and punches. That will only justify the other side "look, we're being repressed" they would cry, and people would rally to the perceived underdog. Make jokes. Mock them. Use facts and logic.

That's why I dislike groups like Antifa and nationalistic groups like NSM and others. They WANT things to escalate. Everybody calm the fuck down and discuss things using words.

Quote from: Sal1981 on June 10, 2019, 11:27:14 PM
No matter how much I hate nazis, I wouldn't deny them their right of Free Speech.

In fact, I would use my own Free Speech to id who the nazis were, instead of letting such contentious viewpoints, both political and ideological, to fester underground, and instead argue with them using logic and reasoning. That is favorable to throwing bricks and punches. That will only justify the other side "look, we're being repressed" they would cry, and people would rally to the perceived underdog. Make jokes. Mock them. Use facts and logic.

That's why I dislike groups like Antifa and nationalistic groups like NSM and others. They WANT things to escalate. Everybody calm the fuck down and discuss things using words.

And use words you would use to friends, too...

QuoteIn fact, I would use my own Free Speech to id who the nazis were, instead of letting such contentious viewpoints, both political and ideological, to fester underground, and instead argue with them using logic and reasoning.

Karl Popper addressed this perfectly in 1945 with his, "Paradox of Intolerance"...

QuoteLess well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.


...


But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.

They will continue to fester underground, silenced or not. The roots of bigotry never show their true colours until they begin to sprout and bloom. But a weed that has been kept in check with pesticide is easier to chop down than one left to grow as it pleases.

The hateful will always keep their hatred a secret until they feel they have the numbers to back it up. It's not the law that keeps these groups from being active, it's the opinions of the people and the size of their own flock. Do you really think, looking at human history, that reason and logic are more powerful than emotion and fear?

I would be ecstatic for that world, but it's not the one we live in. And history is full of the dead bodies of people who put their faith in the rationality and logic of the masses only to watch them turn around and burn them alive for those very traits.

Besides, most Western countries are extremely intolerant of Nazis and the like and yet rank higher than us on human rights and freedoms.

Quote from: Shiranu on June 11, 2019, 12:00:00 AMDo you really think, looking at human history, that reason and logic are more powerful than emotion and fear?

Imho, if it were, nazis would be a foreign concept to us.

Quote from: Hydra009 on June 11, 2019, 12:03:50 AM
Imho, if it were, nazis would be a foreign concept to us.

There are times when people are frightened by loss of social or economic power, losing jobs or stability..  In those times, demagogues can gain power.  The US was on the edge of that in 2016.  It won't last but it shows the threat of it.

I also want to say that people like Nazis have been around forever. They weren't the first to massacre minorties.  It's a historical habit.  And they weren't the last.  Stalin did worse later, so did Mao, Pol Pot and others.

The goal of Western Democracy is to try to reduce that.  It can't be stopped entirely in the present world, but having a goal in that direction is worthwhile.  Progress is damn slow sometimes...

But things do slowly improve.  China will, one day, finally get engaged in the legitimate world market, Russia will move toward some sort of general people-oriented government after Putin or maybe a successor, North Korea will finally fail, etc. 

I'm not suggesting there will be any utopia this century, but I do think think things will generally change positively.  We used to kill people in the neighboring village for food, then we made empires to steal food and resources with armies, then Monarchies to steal from far away places.  I think those are in the past. 

Now we need to take a new step.  I don't know what it will be.  Probably not a World Government but some sort of general business model of exploring space and mining asteroids.  I bet the sci-fi writers are right. Imaging "something better" is a good bet.

Not that there won't be hiccups on the way, but most people want "better" rather than "worse" and there are more people than dictator wanna-bes.

We are open to demagogues every 2 years ... you are so partisan, I bet your favorite sports teams never even have to take a crap.

Quote from: Baruch on June 11, 2019, 04:57:02 AM
We are open to demagogues every 2 years ... you are so partisan, I bet your favorite sports teams never even have to take a crap.

We are indeed open to partisans every 2 years and Crazy Presidents every 4 for that matter.  Fortunately, we generally avoid that.  One of my favorite books is 'They Also Ran' by Irving Stone.  The Presidential races are arranged by chapter according to some common background (the lawyers, the generals, the judges etc).  After each chapter, he discusses how history viewed the winners and how the loser might have done better or not.  I highly recommend the book.  But the important thing is that it seems the voters seem to have picked the best person at the time. 

Some of them were Democrats and some of them were Republicans and I don't care much about that.  What I care about is "the right person at the right time"  and also that "some people rise to the job".

What we have today is a President who the voters did not choose by majority (and that seldom ends well).  And worse, one who was never qualified to be a mayor never mind president.  AND corrupt.

Out nation will survive that, as it has some other Presidents totally unqualified for the job.  But Trump is going to go down as the Worst.

And for whatever it is worth, I'm pretty sure the home team players do crap...

Keep it civil guys, I am getting complaints about personal insults on this thread.

Quote from: _Xenu_ on June 11, 2019, 08:35:28 AM
Keep it civil guys, I am getting complaints about personal insults on this thread.

OK.  Good to keep the ad hominems down.

In case it hasn't been said before yet, everyone calm your fucking tits. Everyone.

Quote from: Munch on June 10, 2019, 06:44:39 PM
Just to open a discussion then, what would you do about militant sjws, those in the system or in public positions who influence and push that toxic mindset, because that kind of behavior isn't something I'd ignore anymore then if joe hick wanted to ban abortions or gay marriage.

I believe that's covered under, "It's one thing if you were just minding your own business and you get attacked, but quite another to bait that kind of response purposefully." It's not that you ignore the behavior; it's that you don't specifically invite attack. In these situations you describe above, you didn't invite the outrage by purposefully spoiling for it. It's in the nature of these people to find offense everywhere they go, and it's even in their manifesto that their bigotry-of-the-week is to be actively sought and will be found even if it's not there. Then you make them look ridiculous.

Quote from: _Xenu_ on June 11, 2019, 08:35:28 AM
Keep it civil guys, I am getting complaints about personal insults on this thread.

My apologies if I went too far.  Sometimes humor is meant innocently but gets out of bounds.