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The Lobby => Introductions => Topic started by: joel96 on June 07, 2019, 11:37:38 AM

Title: Introduction and background
Post by: joel96 on June 07, 2019, 11:37:38 AM
Hi everyone. I grew up in the non-denominational Christian Church. It's very fundamentalist and pretty extreme. A lot of focus on death, power, sex, and suffering. About 2002, I started moving towards dystheism (the belief that God isn't totally good), and in 2016 moved to misotheism and maltheism (being against God and the belief that God is wholly or mostly evil). Later in 2016, I left the church and at the end of 2016 I went public with being atheist. Since then I've continued to post articles on a daily basis on my fb page on what bad things are going on in the theist world and what good things are happening in the world of everything else. I've met several times with the Louisville Atheist and Freethinkers. I'm here to gather good arguments and data I can use to counter theist nonsense.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Mike Cl on June 07, 2019, 11:51:20 AM
Welcome.  Hope you have a long and productive stay here.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: aitm on June 07, 2019, 11:52:49 AM
Quote from: joel96 on June 07, 2019, 11:37:38 AM
I'm here to gather good arguments and data I can use to counter theist nonsense.

Greetings.
Welcome to our little home. As long as you realize that your counter points be towards people still in search. Counter points are useless with most xians. After all, once you can be convinced of that amount of shit being true....it's real hard to convince them otherwise.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Minimalist on June 07, 2019, 11:55:50 AM
Greetings, friend.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Blackleaf on June 07, 2019, 12:24:01 PM
Welcome, Joel. You'll find the coffee and BBQ baby in the first room on your right. Phil forgot to bring the goat blood. Again.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Unbeliever on June 07, 2019, 01:17:47 PM
That dang Phil, always screwing up!

Hi Joel!
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Baruch on June 07, 2019, 01:34:59 PM
Welcome also.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Arik on June 08, 2019, 09:10:44 AM
Quote from: joel96 on June 07, 2019, 11:37:38 AM
Hi everyone. I grew up in the non-denominational Christian Church. It's very fundamentalist and pretty extreme. A lot of focus on death, power, sex, and suffering. About 2002, I started moving towards dystheism (the belief that God isn't totally good), and in 2016 moved to misotheism and maltheism (being against God and the belief that God is wholly or mostly evil). Later in 2016, I left the church and at the end of 2016 I went public with being atheist. Since then I've continued to post articles on a daily basis on my fb page on what bad things are going on in the theist world and what good things are happening in the world of everything else. I've met several times with the Louisville Atheist and Freethinkers. I'm here to gather good arguments and data I can use to counter theist nonsense.


Welcome to the forum joel.

It is quite understandable that you must be upset with religions that keep on talking about hell and other rubbish but what God has to do with religions?
Have you ever thought that God never started any religions or that he agree with what religions say?
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Unbeliever on June 08, 2019, 01:38:06 PM
How could anyone know what God likes or doesn't like, agrees with or does not agree with?
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Blackleaf on June 08, 2019, 04:31:45 PM
Quote from: Arik on June 08, 2019, 09:10:44 AM

Welcome to the forum joel.

It is quite understandable that you must be upset with religions that keep on talking about hell and other rubbish but what God has to do with religions?
Have you ever thought that God never started any religions or that he agree with what religions say?

Or...maybe religions made God up?

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/ChmEWOL7Vaz5u/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Baruch on June 08, 2019, 05:19:51 PM
and politicians make up policies .. aiiee!
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: aitm on June 08, 2019, 05:32:14 PM
Don't worry about Arik...he is on a middle eastern run of preachin about the power of meditation and such where people cooking rice over cow dung spend years being able to perfect such cool things as sticking a fish hook through their side with little effect or breaking a concrete block with yer head....immaterial stuff...instead of doing material stuff like working to help the children around them that are starving to death. If you let go of your material yearning you too can cook rice over cow dung and perfect such arts....if you get real good you may learn to regrow your rotten teeth or maybe help create more tears so you don't suffer from Dry Eye Syndrome......but not too much mind you...you may start to yearn for material stuff like a good meal, or a house with a roof over it.

We have a mediation room in the back to the right.....schedule your time on the sheet of paper so we know when to use the other bathroom.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Baruch on June 08, 2019, 06:14:29 PM
Arik = Yoga .. so more South Asia.  But India influenced much of the world, including the Middle East.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Unbeliever on June 08, 2019, 06:25:53 PM
Yoga is pretty good, but kung fu has glue style:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrYlNNy929Y
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: aitm on June 08, 2019, 09:26:05 PM
yep...thats exactly how all my fights were..waiting for the guy to maneuver into a wild ass position and then kick his heel.....gotta love them real live fights shits
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Arik on June 09, 2019, 11:02:38 AM
Quote from: aitm on June 08, 2019, 05:32:14 PM
Don't worry about Arik...he is on a middle eastern run of preachin about the power of meditation and such where people cooking rice over cow dung spend years being able to perfect such cool things as sticking a fish hook through their side with little effect or breaking a concrete block with yer head....immaterial stuff...instead of doing material stuff like working to help the children around them that are starving to death. If you let go of your material yearning you too can cook rice over cow dung and perfect such arts....if you get real good you may learn to regrow your rotten teeth or maybe help create more tears so you don't suffer from Dry Eye Syndrome......but not too much mind you...you may start to yearn for material stuff like a good meal, or a house with a roof over it.

We have a mediation room in the back to the right.....schedule your time on the sheet of paper so we know when to use the other bathroom.


I know Aitm and I do understand how you must feel after having such a rotten day.

You find your car that you parked in the street smashed and nobody bother to leave any message.
So sad my friend.
I wish I could help.


(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HorribleImpracticalBaboon-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Arik on June 09, 2019, 11:06:26 AM
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 08, 2019, 01:38:06 PM
How could anyone know what God likes or doesn't like, agrees with or does not agree with?


There is NO evidence that God started any religions but there is evidence that God run the universal show as seen on thousand of NDEs.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: aitm on June 09, 2019, 12:02:25 PM
Quote from: Arik on June 09, 2019, 11:02:38 AM

You find your car that you parked in the street smashed and nobody bother to leave any message.


self-projecting your misery on others much? I am sitting by my pool downing a cold one, watching the grandkid play with the dogs. Got filet mignon in the fridge for the grill tonight. I have insurance as well so even if someone smashed my car no worries....sides I also have a X-5 in the garage so I got a spare car. You should try that, you know...get a job...work for once....get insurance. That easy to do when you work to gain the material things that make life enjoyable. Too bad you can't enjoy life until you die---you hope-but hey....good luck with that poking yer side with a fish hook and all.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Cavebear on June 09, 2019, 12:14:50 PM
Quote from: joel96 on June 07, 2019, 11:37:38 AM
Hi everyone. I grew up in the non-denominational Christian Church. It's very fundamentalist and pretty extreme. A lot of focus on death, power, sex, and suffering. About 2002, I started moving towards dystheism (the belief that God isn't totally good), and in 2016 moved to misotheism and maltheism (being against God and the belief that God is wholly or mostly evil). Later in 2016, I left the church and at the end of 2016 I went public with being atheist. Since then I've continued to post articles on a daily basis on my fb page on what bad things are going on in the theist world and what good things are happening in the world of everything else. I've met several times with the Louisville Atheist and Freethinkers. I'm here to gather good arguments and data I can use to counter theist nonsense.

Welcome, Joel 96...
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Blackleaf on June 09, 2019, 01:18:51 PM
Quote from: Arik on June 09, 2019, 11:06:26 AM

There is NO evidence that God started any religions but there is evidence that God run the universal show as seen on thousand of NDEs.

There's no evidence that God started any religions, but there is no evidence that God existed before religions, yet here you are believing unfounded claims anyway. And stop talking about NDEs. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Cavebear on June 09, 2019, 01:32:19 PM
Quote from: Arik on June 09, 2019, 11:06:26 AM

There is NO evidence that God started any religions but there is evidence that God run the universal show as seen on thousand of NDEs.

NDE...  "No Deity Experience?  ;)
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Baruch on June 09, 2019, 01:49:06 PM
Quote from: aitm on June 09, 2019, 12:02:25 PM
self-projecting your misery on others much? I am sitting by my pool downing a cold one, watching the grandkid play with the dogs. Got filet mignon in the fridge for the grill tonight. I have insurance as well so even if someone smashed my car no worries....sides I also have a X-5 in the garage so I got a spare car. You should try that, you know...get a job...work for once....get insurance. That easy to do when you work to gain the material things that make life enjoyable. Too bad you can't enjoy life until you die---you hope-but hey....good luck with that poking yer side with a fish hook and all.

How wonderfully übermensch your life is.  A lot like Cavebear.  None of you other than Unbeliever ... should admit to any Left politics.  Champaign socialism is so ...
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Baruch on June 09, 2019, 01:50:29 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 09, 2019, 01:18:51 PM
There's no evidence that God started any religions, but there is no evidence that God existed before religions, yet here you are believing unfounded claims anyway. And stop talking about NDEs. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

There is no evidence for human humility either ;-)
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: aitm on June 09, 2019, 02:26:29 PM
Quote from: Baruch on June 09, 2019, 01:49:06 PM
How wonderfully übermensch your life is.  A lot like Cavebear.  None of you other than Unbeliever ... should admit to any Left politics.  Champaign socialism is so ...

Have no idea how cavebear or you or anyone else "here" lives.  I have, like most using legal means, climbed the rugged ladder to a reasonable position of comfort. Using the same simple lesson my grandfather passed on the his son and him to me. You don't need anything particularly special to be successful: Be there everyday and just outwork the person they put next to you.

I broke six figures quite a few years back, I am enjoying the benefits of out working the people who were put next to me. I still work though frankly my feet hurt and were it not for the reality that those accustomed to working relatively harder than many seem to die quicker once they retire, I would be retirement on the radar. Sedentary life is not for us...none the less, I don't really don't work that hard anymore. Still put in 5-6 miles on the feet everyday but am ready to go part time and spend more time in the garden and perhaps start buying fixer-uppers and remodeling.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Cavebear on June 09, 2019, 03:59:02 PM
Quote from: Baruch on June 09, 2019, 01:49:06 PM
How wonderfully übermensch your life is.  A lot like Cavebear.  None of you other than Unbeliever ... should admit to any Left politics.  Champaign socialism is so ...

Baruch, I'm basically a Teddy Roosevelt turn-of-the-last-century Progressive who thinks the world could be better.  And a better place for ME to live in, and both at the same time.  I've lived in the same house for 32 years, drive a 13 year old car, and have most of the furniture my parents gave me when I moved in.  I have all I need.  I make all my own meals from scratch because I enjoy it. 

I turned 69 last month.  I'm getting old.  But I still do everything myself and expect to until the neighbors smell bad smells coming from the house.  I hope the cats don't have to eat me.

I drink a cheap wine (actually "Twisted Zin' is a decent meal drink) and smoke Boston Butt and chicken on the deck for most of my meals with a large tossed salad and fresh veggies.  I have learned to make a very good shrimp eggroll. 

I accumulated money because I never spent it, LOL!  And none of it is in the house or readily accessible, so I don't worry.  My siblings (if they outlive me) are going to be VERY happy.  And if not them, their children.  And my cats, whichever are around at the time...  And American Atheists and Consumer Reports. 
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Cavebear on June 09, 2019, 04:05:56 PM
Quote from: Baruch on June 09, 2019, 01:50:29 PM
There is no evidence for human humility either ;-)

As best I can tell from science articles (and acknowledging that the only proof is dying) most NDEs are the result of brain confusion from drugs and some temporary bodily paralysis.  Its not really that unusual, but some people interpret NDEs that way.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Cavebear on June 09, 2019, 04:15:23 PM
Quote from: aitm on June 09, 2019, 02:26:29 PM
Have no idea how cavebear or you or anyone else "here" lives.  I have, like most using legal means, climbed the rugged ladder to a reasonable position of comfort. Using the same simple lesson my grandfather passed on the his son and him to me. You don't need anything particularly special to be successful: Be there everyday and just outwork the person they put next to you.

I broke six figures quite a few years back, I am enjoying the benefits of out working the people who were put next to me. I still work though frankly my feet hurt and were it not for the reality that those accustomed to working relatively harder than many seem to die quicker once they retire, I would be retirement on the radar. Sedentary life is not for us...none the less, I don't really don't work that hard anymore. Still put in 5-6 miles on the feet everyday but am ready to go part time and spend more time in the garden and perhaps start buying fixer-uppers and remodeling.

I understand about the workplace, AITM, but sometimes the competion isn't all that fierce in the smaller offices.  My Dad told me "better to be a small frog in a large pond than a large frog in a small pond".  I beg to differ.  The large frog in the small pond gets more moths.  I was the small frog in a large pond once and I found that it was mostly controlled by lawyers and very talented snakes. 

I followed 'The Peter Principle' and retired a happy satisfied large frog in a small pond at the right skill level..
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: aitm on June 09, 2019, 06:10:58 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on June 09, 2019, 04:15:23 PM
I followed 'The Peter Principle' and retired a happy satisfied large frog in a small pond at the right skill level..

I have been a fan of the Peter Principle for nearly 30 years. I find in necessary to tell my "superiors" about the Peter Principle whenever they suggest I should take a larger role in the company. I am content where I am. I have damn near complete autonomy on my projects and can also come and go at my leisure. Why would I want to go to a position that I may not have the same success when I have one where I am considered the best and the money is only another 5-7 grand?

Nope, quite content here.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Cavebear on June 09, 2019, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: aitm on June 09, 2019, 06:10:58 PM
I have been a fan of the Peter Principle for nearly 30 years. I find in necessary to tell my "superiors" about the Peter Principle whenever they suggest I should take a larger role in the company. I am content where I am. I have damn near complete autonomy on my projects and can also come and go at my leisure. Why would I want to go to a position that I may not have the same success when I have one where I am considered the best and the money is only another 5-7 grand?

Nope, quite content here.

Sounds like you were in the same situation I was.  I was the only one responsible for the voice telecommunications program.  It was confusing to Management, I did it well, never caused problems, and only brought solutions to any problem.  So they never bothered me.  I never COULD get that assistant though.  Autonomy is great if you can handle the workload...

They replaced me with 3 people when I retired, LOL!  A former co-worker sent me the new office chart.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Baruch on June 10, 2019, 08:00:51 AM
So ... congrats on not being born in Somalia.  Not saying you are one, but you do sound like one ...

But nobody here knows the word "champagne" or "socialist" or "champaign socialist".  That was my point.  Not how well you have done for yourselves, that is bourgeois.

"a person who espouses socialist ideals while enjoying a wealthy and luxurious lifestyle."

Champagne socialists are among the most disgusting political segment around, in terms of corruption and hypocrisy.  No, it isn't the money.  It is what people let money do to them. As in "he won the lotto and destroyed his life".

"In Marxist philosophy, the bourgeoisie is the social class that came to own the means of production during modern industrialization and whose societal concerns are the value of property and the preservation of capital to ensure the perpetuation of their economic supremacy in society."

Unbeliever is the only legitimate socialist posting here.  The rest of you are liberal as in faux-socialist.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Arik on June 10, 2019, 09:10:55 AM
Quote from: aitm on June 09, 2019, 12:02:25 PM
self-projecting your misery on others much? I am sitting by my pool downing a cold one, watching the grandkid play with the dogs. Got filet mignon in the fridge for the grill tonight. I have insurance as well so even if someone smashed my car no worries....sides I also have a X-5 in the garage so I got a spare car. You should try that, you know...get a job...work for once....get insurance. That easy to do when you work to gain the material things that make life enjoyable. Too bad you can't enjoy life until you die---you hope-but hey....good luck with that poking yer side with a fish hook and all.


Gee, I didn't know that you can read in my mind and know whether I work or not or whether I own this or that and whether I have the insurance or not.
Oh, by the way here in Australia if somebody smash your car and you can not find the culprit the insurance will make you pay the excess which could be a lot of money.
I suppose that even in your country the same policy apply.
All your grand smartness is all a big puff up.
Better come down to planet earth Mister.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Baruch on June 10, 2019, 09:31:47 AM
Quote from: Arik on June 10, 2019, 09:10:55 AM

Gee, I didn't know that you can read in my mind and know whether I work or not or whether I own this or that and whether I have the insurance or not.
Oh, by the way here in Australia if somebody smash your car and you can not find the culprit the insurance will make you pay the excess which could be a lot of money.
I suppose that even in your country the same policy apply.
All your grand smartness is all a big puff up.
Better come down to planet earth Mister.

US auto insurance is no-fault.  If your car breaks because of collision, the collision is prima facie for repair or replacement
Saudi auto insurance is all-fault.  If you car breaks because of collision, the police arrests all parties (they assume partial fault on all involved).  That and if your family doesn't come and feed you in jail, you starve.

<insert sound of Saudi women ululation here>
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Sal1981 on June 10, 2019, 09:54:33 AM
Quote from: joel96 on June 07, 2019, 11:37:38 AM
Hi everyone. I grew up in the non-denominational Christian Church. It's very fundamentalist and pretty extreme. A lot of focus on death, power, sex, and suffering. About 2002, I started moving towards dystheism (the belief that God isn't totally good), and in 2016 moved to misotheism and maltheism (being against God and the belief that God is wholly or mostly evil). Later in 2016, I left the church and at the end of 2016 I went public with being atheist. Since then I've continued to post articles on a daily basis on my fb page on what bad things are going on in the theist world and what good things are happening in the world of everything else. I've met several times with the Louisville Atheist and Freethinkers. I'm here to gather good arguments and data I can use to counter theist nonsense.
https://infidels.org (https://infidels.org) is a better bet. Particularly the Library section.

Also the http://talkorigins.org/ (http://talkorigins.org/) archive, since most of theists arguments lay in fallaciously attributing our origins to deities.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Arik on June 10, 2019, 10:35:56 AM
Quote from: Baruch on June 10, 2019, 09:31:47 AM
US auto insurance is no-fault.  If your car breaks because of collision, the collision is prima facie for repair or replacement
Saudi auto insurance is all-fault.  If you car breaks because of collision, the police arrests all parties (they assume partial fault on all involved).  That and if your family doesn't come and feed you in jail, you starve.

<insert sound of Saudi women ululation here>


I came in the US one time and I don't think I will come again.
It was a bad experience and from what you say is even worse.

Run by a warmonger and supported by gun fanatics.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Arik on June 10, 2019, 10:50:41 AM
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 09, 2019, 01:18:51 PM
There's no evidence that God started any religions, but there is no evidence that God existed before religions, yet here you are believing unfounded claims anyway. And stop talking about NDEs. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.


Are you really saying that these NDEs are all lies and hallucinations?

What about real people who had a real physical problem that lead them to the casualty room with real doctors in real hospitals?
And what about their real death certified by these real doctors and while physically dead they could see what was going on all around and what about their clear and sharp recollection of those events even after years and years?

Do you know what is the difference between an hallucination and a real event?
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: aitm on June 10, 2019, 12:27:45 PM
Quote from: Baruch on June 10, 2019, 08:00:51 AM
It is what people let money do to them.

Unbeliever is the only legitimate socialist posting here.  The rest of you are liberal as in faux-socialist.

ooo  boo-hoo...Cry me a river.

If someone wants to live under a tree, I don't care. Stand on a corner and beg for beer money I don't care.
My charitable contributions were 5 grand last year on my taxes and that doesn't take into account probably another 2 or 3 in general such as 50 on a 5.00 car wash etc. Don't care what you want to label someone as due to them working hard and enjoying life. Sounds like you desperately want a vehicle and a small garage. That would fix what ever guilt you are suffering with and task yourself with projecting that sense to others. Meh...doesn't work.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Hydra009 on June 10, 2019, 12:38:08 PM
Quote from: Arik on June 10, 2019, 10:50:41 AMDo you know what is the difference between an hallucination and a real event?
A question you might want to seriously contemplate yourself before asking others.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Baruch on June 10, 2019, 03:37:31 PM
Quote from: Arik on June 10, 2019, 10:35:56 AM

I came in the US one time and I don't think I will come again.
It was a bad experience and from what you say is even worse.

Run by a warmonger and supported by gun fanatics.

True.  Not at all enlightened per S Asia/E Asia.  We have always been warmongers (Obama too).  Very materialist, very un-self-examined ;-(  I do what I can, but I am just one man.  Moving to Four Corners to generate better Feng Shui ;-)
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Baruch on June 10, 2019, 03:39:08 PM
Quote from: aitm on June 10, 2019, 12:27:45 PM
ooo  boo-hoo...Cry me a river.

If someone wants to live under a tree, I don't care. Stand on a corner and beg for beer money I don't care.
My charitable contributions were 5 grand last year on my taxes and that doesn't take into account probably another 2 or 3 in general such as 50 on a 5.00 car wash etc. Don't care what you want to label someone as due to them working hard and enjoying life. Sounds like you desperately want a vehicle and a small garage. That would fix what ever guilt you are suffering with and task yourself with projecting that sense to others. Meh...doesn't work.

How American of you! ;-)  Low EQ.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Cavebear on June 11, 2019, 02:12:43 AM
Quote from: Baruch on June 10, 2019, 08:00:51 AM
So ... congrats on not being born in Somalia.  Not saying you are one, but you do sound like one ...

But nobody here knows the word "champagne" or "socialist" or "champaign socialist".  That was my point.  Not how well you have done for yourselves, that is bourgeois.

"a person who espouses socialist ideals while enjoying a wealthy and luxurious lifestyle."

Champagne socialists are among the most disgusting political segment around, in terms of corruption and hypocrisy.  No, it isn't the money.  It is what people let money do to them. As in "he won the lotto and destroyed his life".

"In Marxist philosophy, the bourgeoisie is the social class that came to own the means of production during modern industrialization and whose societal concerns are the value of property and the preservation of capital to ensure the perpetuation of their economic supremacy in society."

Unbeliever is the only legitimate socialist posting here.  The rest of you are liberal as in faux-socialist.

And congratulations to yourself.  You are the only monarchist wanna-be I've ever known. 
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Baruch on June 11, 2019, 04:05:51 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on June 11, 2019, 02:12:43 AM
And congratulations to yourself.  You are the only monarchist wanna-be I've ever known.

See post under Politics ;-)
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Cavebear on June 11, 2019, 04:16:39 AM
Quote from: Baruch on June 11, 2019, 04:05:51 AM
I keep an open mind, mostly to let things out, rather than to let things in.  Also winners write the histories (see Churchill) but not honestly.  So I have to doubt the fairy tales we are told, even if they are good entertainment.

And once you are open to alternatives, I can see GB winning 1776 or Confederacy winning 1861 or Kaiser winning 1914.  Not necessarily what I would want under those circumstances, but not unthinkable.

My own ancestry (and we are all royal bastards one way or another) makes it clear, I would not want to be "the" monarch, but a good monarch is better than a bad commoner.

The American Revolution was the revenge of dissenters against King James I,

GB armies MIGHT have got down the Hudson River.  France might NOT have sailed in the Cheaspeake at Yorktown.  Pickett's Charge MIGHT have succeeded and Lee taken Washington DC.  WWI Germany MIGHT have gotten past the first trenches and taken Paris.  I love that kind of alternative history. as a matter of thought 

But they didn't for the reasons they didn't. 
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Baruch on June 11, 2019, 04:46:47 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on June 11, 2019, 04:16:39 AM
GB armies MIGHT have got down the Hudson River.  France might NOT have sailed in the Cheaspeake at Yorktown.  Pickett's Charge MIGHT have succeeded and Lee taken Washington DC.  WWI Germany MIGHT have gotten past the first trenches and taken Paris.  I love that kind of alternative history. as a matter of thought 

But they didn't for the reasons they didn't.

Many reasons.  Alternative history (realistic) is very frightening.  I have read some for WW II.  Things were very close, every damn time.  And sometimes pure luck or bad luck intervened (depending on POV).

I do think, in the context of that time, the British made a big mistake not expanding Parliament to include all White male native property holders.  Then the franchise would have expanded on both sides of the Atlantic at a more natural pace.  And the united British Empire would have abolished American slavery without a Civil War.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Cavebear on June 11, 2019, 06:40:04 AM
Quote from: Baruch on June 11, 2019, 04:46:47 AM
Many reasons.  Alternative history (realistic) is very frightening.  I have read some for WW II.  Things were very close, every damn time.  And sometimes pure luck or bad luck intervened (depending on POV).

I do think, in the context of that time, the British made a big mistake not expanding Parliament to include all White male native property holders.  Then the franchise would have expanded on both sides of the Atlantic at a more natural pace.  And the united British Empire would have abolished American slavery without a Civil War.

Likely, regarding enfranchisement.  But that's the trouble with Kings.  They get all "assigned-by-god" and not very amenable to changes.  Its not like we didn't try.  We begged and pleaded.  Unsuccessfully.

I think that before Eli Whitney's "Cotton Gin") enGINe, that the end of slavery was coming and could have been possible.  But after, the British and NE demand for cotton was unstoppable.  Trade creates horrible demands.  Like the non US slaves on the cane sugar plantations.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Baruch on June 11, 2019, 08:32:33 AM
Yes the demand for rum (not bad) and cotton gin (tastes bad) determined the outcome.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Cavebear on June 12, 2019, 01:22:09 AM
Quote from: Baruch on June 11, 2019, 08:32:33 AM
Yes the demand for rum (not bad) and cotton gin (tastes bad) determined the outcome.

My cocktails:  1.5 ozs on gin, .5 ozs of Cherry Brandy in a tall glass with ice and topped with ginger ale.  Sort of like a Singapore Sling.  I used to use Pomegranate liquor, (and called it a Cavebear Sling) but they stopped making it.  I also like equal parts of Southern Comfort and Peach Brandy to 1.5 oz and gingerale on ice after that.  I like fruit...
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Baruch on June 12, 2019, 03:07:27 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on June 12, 2019, 01:22:09 AM
My cocktails:  1.5 ozs on gin, .5 ozs of Cherry Brandy in a tall glass with ice and topped with ginger ale.  Sort of like a Singapore Sling.  I used to use Pomegranate liquor, (and called it a Cavebear Sling) but they stopped making it.  I also like equal parts of Southern Comfort and Peach Brandy to 1.5 oz and gingerale on ice after that.  I like fruit...

Gay man, very gay ;-)
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Mike Cl on June 12, 2019, 09:24:00 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on June 12, 2019, 01:22:09 AM
My cocktails:  1.5 ozs on gin, .5 ozs of Cherry Brandy in a tall glass with ice and topped with ginger ale.  Sort of like a Singapore Sling.  I used to use Pomegranate liquor, (and called it a Cavebear Sling) but they stopped making it.  I also like equal parts of Southern Comfort and Peach Brandy to 1.5 oz and gingerale on ice after that.  I like fruit...
Ahhh, Southern Comfort--my college drug of choice!
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: aitm on June 12, 2019, 11:11:38 AM
Quote from: Baruch on June 10, 2019, 03:39:08 PM
How American of you! ;-)  Low EQ.
Well Thank you....we are after all, the very best we can be...
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Baruch on June 12, 2019, 11:40:01 AM
Quote from: aitm on June 12, 2019, 11:11:38 AM
Well Thank you....we are after all, the very best we can be...

Irony ... your shirts have wrinkles?
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Unbeliever on June 12, 2019, 01:26:37 PM
Wrinkles in Time.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Baruch on June 12, 2019, 04:33:22 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 12, 2019, 01:26:37 PM
Wrinkles in Time.

Dr Who irons your shirts?
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Unbeliever on June 12, 2019, 04:38:49 PM
Mrs. Whatsit, Mrs. Who and Mrs. Which - they don't iron well, but they sure get around!
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Mr.Obvious on June 12, 2019, 06:57:27 PM
Long discussion aside
Welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Cavebear on June 15, 2019, 10:13:21 AM
Quote from: Baruch on June 12, 2019, 03:07:27 AM
Gay man, very gay ;-)

As usual, totally wrong.  I just like fruit.  Some people like alcohol for itself.  I only like ones that add flavor to a drink.  Southern Comfort has peach flavors; gin has juniper.  So I never bother with vodka, for example...
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Absolute_Agent on June 16, 2019, 05:59:52 PM
Quote from: joel96 on June 07, 2019, 11:37:38 AM
Hi everyone. I grew up in the non-denominational Christian Church. It's very fundamentalist and pretty extreme. A lot of focus on death, power, sex, and suffering. About 2002, I started moving towards dystheism (the belief that God isn't totally good), and in 2016 moved to misotheism and maltheism (being against God and the belief that God is wholly or mostly evil). Later in 2016, I left the church and at the end of 2016 I went public with being atheist. Since then I've continued to post articles on a daily basis on my fb page on what bad things are going on in the theist world and what good things are happening in the world of everything else. I've met several times with the Louisville Atheist and Freethinkers. I'm here to gather good arguments and data I can use to counter theist nonsense.
Hello Joel. I was raised in a similar religious environment.  Freethinker at heart, my path lead me to Islam, after investigating a variety of major religions.  I'm also new in the forum. 

Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Unbeliever on June 16, 2019, 06:26:49 PM
Hi Absolute_Agent! Welcome to the madhouse!
Title: Re: Introduction and background
Post by: Green Bottle on June 19, 2019, 01:41:19 PM
Welcome tae the Madhoose Joel.....