https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/11/18304825/abortion-texas-tony-tinderholt-death-penalty-bill (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/11/18304825/abortion-texas-tony-tinderholt-death-penalty-bill)
QuoteA bill recently introduced in Texas would make it possible for women to get the death penalty for having abortions.The bill would criminalize all abortions, with no exceptions for rape or incest, and would make it possible to charge a woman with homicide for having the procedure, according to the Washington Post. The state of Texas allows capital punishment for homicide.
Rep. Tony Tinderholt, a Republican state legislator who introduced the bill, says it would make people “consider the repercussions†of having sex.
“My bill simply accomplishes one goal,†Tinderholt said in a statement to media on Wednesday. “It brings equal treatment for unborn human beings under the law.â€
Thankfully, it didn't pass; the head of the committee refused to let it be voted on. Before you get excited that a Republican shut this down, keep in mind that he only won his district by 200 votes last election... he realises he now is in a purple county and has to appeal to both sides.
That said, Ohio just recently banned abortion bringing the total number of states that have criminalized it to 4. If it is taken to the Supreme Court, which is now stacked with Republican
candidates *nominees who have been pretty strongly against abortion, it is quite possible that Roe v. Wade could be completely gutted or overturned.
And let's just think for a moment the fact that, in a first world nation, in the United States, the second largest state was legitimately allowing a bill that could lead to the death penalty for abortion. If Texas was it's own country, it would have the 19th largest economy in the world and a population larger than Australia.
It would be one thing if it was Pakistan or Egypt or Mali or wherever considering legislation like this... but that's how far we have fallen socially.
Where is all this "Texas going Blue" I have been hearing about, besides Austin? Seems pretty conservative that this would even be brought to a vote in the first place.
Quote from: Baruch on April 13, 2019, 02:30:30 AM
Where is all this "Texas going Blue" I have been hearing about, besides Austin? Seems pretty conservative that this would even be brought to a vote in the first place.
It goes towards what I was saying above... Texas is much more akin to a country (and would be one of the largest and most powerful ones in the world, at that) than a State, so the diversity of politics is going to be much larger. It's why you can have states like New Mexico and Colorado which lean progressive right next to states like Arizona or Utah that are ultra-conservative, even though they fall into the (roughly) same cultural region and are all part of one country.
El Paso, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, the Valley and basically every metro-region of Texas is blue (and spread apart over a region larger than New England), it's just once you get about 30 minutes outside of the city you pass through old-white money conservatives and then into uneducated towns and villages that are either oil, farming or drug towns (or a mixture of the three).
Small towns here are dying, while the major metro-regions continue to expand exponentially... and with that many progressives are either immigrating to the State or being homegrown. So while the state can be trending towards being more purple and progressive, you can still have pockets of deep red with extremely regressive view points.
Like I said, it was a Republican who blocked this from going through, and it's largely because he won by only 200-some votes. As for the guy who proposed it, he is in a predominately white and upper-class district, and even then he only won by 7% of the vote... which means even in his own district there is not overwhelming support for his policies.
My guess is this bill will not make him popular with a decent amount of Republican voters in his district, and even less so for independents... and that come next election that margin of victory (or even loss) will be much closer.
Meanwhile, South Korea must end its abortion ban by 2020. Their court has declared.
Non-USians, and frankly a lot of USians, tend to be lazy and think that a "Red" state is entirely Republican. Need to do better, people.
I fear for this country.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on April 13, 2019, 05:54:00 AM
Meanwhile, South Korea must end its abortion ban by 2020. Their court has declared.
Complicated by all the Korean Christians. Though perhaps not as "throw back" as the African Christians.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 13, 2019, 07:45:02 AM
Non-USians, and frankly a lot of USians, tend to be lazy and think that a "Red" state is entirely Republican. Need to do better, people.
Like the NT analogy of yeast in the dough. One little bit of yeast makes the whole loaf un-kosher for Passover. That is the puritan view. On any given election, one third of the electorate isn't tribal (the Independents) unlike the spear chucking bone in the nose D-R savages.
Meanwhile if one Marxist professor is at your college, the whole mess is Communist and should be defunded to zero.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on April 13, 2019, 11:05:08 AM
I fear for this country.
The Fear Brigade ... 1775, 1860, 1917, 1941, 1962 ... see the pattern? Right now we are in a moral panic, like 1951 or 1680. Paranoia really.
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way â€" in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only. A Tale of Two Cities - by Charles Dickens
IMHO ... there are no good revolutions. Gradual change by thinking people is good. But all societies are mob rule or tyrannies.
Quote from: Baruch on April 13, 2019, 12:30:44 PM
The Fear Brigade ... 1775, 1860, 1917, 1941, 1962 ... see the pattern? Right now we are in a moral panic, like 1951 or 1680. Paranoia really.
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way â€" in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only. A Tale of Two Cities - by Charles Dickens
IMHO ... there are no good revolutions. Gradual change by thinking people is good. But all societies are mob rule or tyrannies.
Well, most successful societies "get a grip" when they approach one extreme or the other.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 14, 2019, 02:04:27 AM
Well, most successful societies "get a grip" when they approach one extreme or the other.
But do we have rubber no slip soles on our sneakers? ;-) France, Russia, China are counterexamples.
It's hard to imagine what comes to these people's mind, when they think about sex.
"...Tony Tinderholt, a Republican state legislator who introduced the bill, says it would make people “consider the repercussions†of having sex. ..."
OK. I have something to ask about the 'logic' of this perversity. Does this mean they would also execute the father too -which would be of course more problematic in practice- or only the women? I am not sure if they are aware, but nature needs a female and a male to have sex; do it together to produce pregnancy. Should men "consider the repurcussions" of having sex in their world?
I wish more people would realise that more than the never ending abortion issue in itself; their definition of murder; a fetus vs human debates, this is actually about preventing women from having casual sex, having multiple partners; not at all if they are not married or having kids. It's the same agenda in every religion.
Scaring women. And trust me, even reading this piece of news would scare a lot of them living that region and impact their lives. I know what I felt when the equivalent of this understanding tried to ban abortion over here. Even though they failed, they managed to manipulate people; certain hospitals even acted as if it was banned. It's also very easy to manipulate, coerce women to do something else than they actually want about this issue, esp. if they are single. It's so disgusting. It's a huge can of worms.
John Oliver has 2 episode on this regarding the US, about what is going on in some places where actually abortion is legal, but made inaccesible to women.
Don't worry, the new Puritanism has arrived in America. No more one night stands. The Scarlett Letter "A" now stands for America. And hypocrisy too.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on April 14, 2019, 05:26:05 AM
It's hard to imagine what comes to these people's mind, when they think about sex.
"...Tony Tinderholt, a Republican state legislator who introduced the bill, says it would make people “consider the repercussions†of having sex. ..."
OK. I have something to ask about the 'logic' of this perversity. Does this mean they would also execute the father too -which would be of course more problematic in practice- or only the women? I am not sure if they are aware, but nature needs a female and a male to have sex; do it together to produce pregnancy. Should men "consider the repurcussions" of having sex in their world?
I wish more people would realise that more than the never ending abortion issue in itself; their definition of murder; a fetus vs human debates, this is actually about preventing women from having casual sex, having multiple partners; not at all if they are not married or having kids. It's the same agenda in every religion.
Scaring women. And trust me, even reading this piece of news would scare a lot of them living that region and impact their lives. I know what I felt when the equivalent of this understanding tried to ban abortion over here. Even though they failed, they managed to manipulate people; certain hospitals even acted as if it was banned. It's also very easy to manipulate, coerce women to do something else than they actually want about this issue, esp. if they are single. It's so disgusting. It's a huge can of worms.
John Oliver has 2 episode on this regarding the US, about what is going on in some places where actually abortion is legal, but made inaccesible to women.
I will say there is a solution to all of this. Women should just willfully expel all their eggs! Reproductive problems solved!
Sarc...
Cavebear ... we aren't part of the Vagina Dialogues. Shh!
Quote from: Baruch on April 14, 2019, 05:37:09 AM
Cavebear ... we aren't part of the Vagina Dialogues. Shh!
Suit yourself...
Quote from: drunkenshoe on April 14, 2019, 05:26:05 AM
It's hard to imagine what comes to these people's mind, when they think about sex.
"...Tony Tinderholt, a Republican state legislator who introduced the bill, says it would make people “consider the repercussions†of having sex. ..."
OK. I have something to ask about the 'logic' of this perversity. Does this mean they would also execute the father too -which would be of course more problematic in practice- or only the women? I am not sure if they are aware, but nature needs a female and a male to have sex; do it together to produce pregnancy. Should men "consider the repurcussions" of having sex in their world?
I wish more people would realise that more than the never ending abortion issue in itself; their definition of murder; a fetus vs human debates, this is actually about preventing women from having casual sex, having multiple partners; not at all if they are not married or having kids. It's the same agenda in every religion.
Scaring women. And trust me, even reading this piece of news would scare a lot of them living that region and impact their lives. I know what I felt when the equivalent of this understanding tried to ban abortion over here. Even though they failed, they managed to manipulate people; certain hospitals even acted as if it was banned. It's also very easy to manipulate, coerce women to do something else than they actually want about this issue, esp. if they are single. It's so disgusting. It's a huge can of worms.
John Oliver has 2 episode on this regarding the US, about what is going on in some places where actually abortion is legal, but made inaccesible to women.
They wouldn't punish the man. He's considered a victim in this scenario, in Republican minds. They see abortion as his baby being "murdered." The system heavily favors men, and puts all of the responsibility on women. Look up the movie "Loving the Bad Man," and you'll learn how Conservative Christians think "Godly women" should behave when given the choice of aborting an unwanted pregnancy. Just don't eat before watching the movie. You'll likely lose your lunch.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on April 13, 2019, 11:05:08 AM
I fear for this country.
Why? People do stupid shit all the time. This guy was playing to his voters.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on April 14, 2019, 01:11:54 PM
Why? People do stupid shit all the time. This guy was playing to his voters.
That sort of thinking got Donald Duck elected president.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on April 14, 2019, 01:15:05 PM
That sort of thinking got Donald Duck elected president.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And all the other evil clowns going back to George Washington. More recently Bill Clinton, George W Bush and Barak Obama ... but really it is all the little politicians who do the most to infect the body politics, the Presidents are merely the biggest germs around.
I have been a pro-choice advocate since the mid 70's. Some of it most likely self preservation....but in the later years far more for equality of the sexes as far as the law is concerned. Laws should be considered that the sex of the person behind the curtain is unknown.
That said, I have also been an advocate that women are 100% responsible for getting pregnant. Other than the obvious, it is their sole responsibility to protect themselves, because no one else will. I am not interested in the whole it takes two gamble. Yes it does, but we know that one of them doesn't give a shit so the only one that can get pregnant should be ones to protect themselves.
Frankly I really believe if we approached it this way women would be the better for it. Equal rights, equal responsibility....right? Well. No. You want absolute rights? You should have them. But take those rights and responsibility and hold that flag. Be responsible for your own body. Don't let anyone suggest you don't have the right to complete control, because you should have that right...and that responsibility. Champion it. I believe that should be women's mantra. I do. It's my body and my choice and I will be responsible. Now, get that right, and hold it and demand it and practice it and.......problem solved.
Shitstorm in 3.2.......
Quote from: aitm on April 14, 2019, 02:23:17 PMShitstorm in 3.2.......
(https://media.giphy.com/media/vTt28bq9qdO4E/giphy.gif)
(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/shitstorm-gif-4.gif)
Quote from: Baruch on April 14, 2019, 05:37:09 AM
Cavebear ... we aren't part of the Vagina Dialogues. Shh!
Maybe the Virginia monologues?
Quote from: aitm on April 14, 2019, 02:23:17 PM
I have been a pro-choice advocate since the mid 70's. Some of it most likely self preservation....but in the later years far more for equality of the sexes as far as the law is concerned. Laws should be considered that the sex of the person behind the curtain is unknown.
That said, I have also been an advocate that women are 100% responsible for getting pregnant. Other than the obvious, it is their sole responsibility to protect themselves, because no one else will. I am not interested in the whole it takes two gamble. Yes it does, but we know that one of them doesn't give a shit so the only one that can get pregnant should be ones to protect themselves.
Frankly I really believe if we approached it this way women would be the better for it. Equal rights, equal responsibility....right? Well. No. You want absolute rights? You should have them. But take those rights and responsibility and hold that flag. Be responsible for your own body. Don't let anyone suggest you don't have the right to complete control, because you should have that right...and that responsibility. Champion it. I believe that should be women's mantra. I do. It's my body and my choice and I will be responsible. Now, get that right, and hold it and demand it and practice it and.......problem solved.
Shitstorm in 3.2.......
Not a bad idea in the 21st century. But being old fashioned, I blame the guy more. Young men are hornier than young women IMHO. There is a gray area of date rape/marital rape that is impossible to navigate without two lawyers involved. I would be happy if most lover-boys were castrated by the girl's father ;-) I would apply the same to gay/lesbian couples as well. Don't touch my child/adult outside of marriage! (sarc) And you don't let anyone either.
Within legal marriage (and now gays/lesbians can marry) the rules are different, it falls under marital law, not parental law. Of course maybe I am sexist ... I would be more disturbed by an irresponsible son than an irresponsible daughter. And we know most of this hanky panky happens under the influence of alcohol or drugs. That is a whole other problem, in that no one should any more "relationship" while under the influence, than drive under the influence.
I sympathize with any woman who gets pregnant, the decisions are ... impossible. I would support her if she wants to keep it, or abort it if in the first trimester (except for exceptional medical conditions). I don't consider this extreme. If men do get a "pill" eventually, I think STD will become an even bigger problem. General irresponsible behavior is the problem. And abortion shouldn't be the preferred form of birth control.
Shit storm? You wish, sweety. Good old times. It's too late.
This is NOT about abortion or women. This is about creating a new society and changing the life style of the USA. Something you people believe to be impossible which makes it much easier I guess. The biggest threat has always been your own. Like ours. At least most of your population is armed. If that monkey stays, the rising in violent crime and shootings alone would carry you to marshall law, because they can't manage order. Can dems make it even after two terms of his?
Fuck it.
You know what I am thinking? If none of us are dead in any civil war in the next decade, we should make a convention. Meet somewhere, eat and drink. I am serious. No I am not drunk. Making lunch.
Seems like a good decade to just get high drink a soda and play dnd since everything is going down the tubes
Quote from: drunkenshoe on April 15, 2019, 07:44:32 AM
Shit storm? You wish, sweety. Good old times. It's too late.
This is NOT about abortion or women. This is about creating a new society and changing the life style of the USA. Something you people believe to be impossible which makes it much easier I guess. The biggest threat has always been your own. Like ours. At least most of your population is armed. If that monkey stays, the rising in violent crime and shootings alone would carry you to marshall law, because they can't manage order. Can dems make it even after two terms of his?
Fuck it.
You know what I am thinking? If none of us are dead in any civil war in the next decade, we should make a convention. Meet somewhere, eat and drink. I am serious. No I am not drunk. Making lunch.
Global thermonuclear war, by enemies of the US, tend to do that. You realize you will soon be an enemy combatant, right? Not that an alliance with Russia by Turkey is a bad idea, you are neighbors. Maybe Russia will betray the Balkans and help you besiege Vienna again? No, progress is an illusion. Old habits die hard.
And Drunkenshoe, you know nothing of America. Europe maybe. Yes, Americans are the enemy (sarc). Which side were y'all on in 1914 again? Armed neutral supporting who in 1939?
Baruch, what are you talking about?
Quote from: drunkenshoe on April 15, 2019, 03:29:14 PM
Baruch, what are you talking about?
It's one of life's great mysteries.
I mean, I get that he doesn't agree with me or he could even think I am mad for all I care. But there is something called context.
Baruch, I am talking about two similar bad situations in two different countries. Domestic policies. Domestic situations. I have been living in a nightmare for 17 yers and now watching another country in the same story. And that exactly like people have done over here for years, you too don't see it likely to happen. oh they are isolated, old issues; we have always had that. It's not. Not anymore. And you are still talking about 'the enemies of the USA'. What outside enemy you moron? Are you in this situation because of what foreign enemy? It sounds like you'll be happy if the countries we live in become enemy combatants? Or may be any possible country to feed right nutters fantasies? Does it matter, which one it is? Which one would make the right wing nutters most happy?
Or do you think that having huge space and low population density will protect the general order forever from domestic terrorism, shootings, lootings or societies drawning in crime? There is only one end of this right wing divisive policy in 21st century, in a country where civillians are armed. It's fucking marshall law. And that's because federal government of the USA has the military power to prevent a potential civil war on the land.
Can you imagine a USA that states have so big gaps in life styles, safety, education, social life, living-working conditions...etc that you can't travel around. Masses of people forced to move. A situation, which people even could have armed conflict? Well start. You are not that old, you still might see that.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on April 15, 2019, 03:29:14 PM
Baruch, what are you talking about?
Your continuous impressions of Madame Defarge. A new way of life? Like no politics, no economics, no death, no taxes ... that new way of life?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTTvKwCylFY
America isn't France, even if we do consume mass quantities. And GB managed to avoid any revolution at all, just gradual liberalization. No violence in America? Really, happens every day, we are used to it.
Again. What are you talking about?
Quote from: drunkenshoe on April 16, 2019, 12:35:29 PM
Again. What are you talking about?
Post-modernism is ... extinction. That is what underlies your position. Saying that things will change, in a generic way, says nothing.
Just allow Baruch to keep making your arguments for you, shoe. It saves time and effort to just let him keep talking to himself. He seems happier that way, too.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on April 16, 2019, 02:55:42 PM
Just allow Baruch to keep making your arguments for you, shoe. It saves time and effort to just let him keep talking to himself. He seems happier that way, too.
Postmodernism =
Postmodernism is a broad movement that developed in the mid- to late 20th century across philosophy, the arts, architecture, and criticism and that marked a departure from modernism. The term has also more generally been applied to the historical era following modernity and the tendencies of this era.
This is quite complicated, and Drunkenshoe has a quite complex relationship with Postmodernism.
But this has been accused as theoretical cultural Marxism. But we don't have pr126 to kick around anymore ;-(
Quote from: Baruch on April 16, 2019, 04:27:43 PM
Postmodernism =
Postmodernism is a broad movement that developed in the mid- to late 20th century across philosophy, the arts, architecture, and criticism and that marked a departure from modernism. The term has also more generally been applied to the historical era following modernity and the tendencies of this era.
This is quite complicated, and Drunkenshoe has a quite complex relationship with Postmodernism.
But this has been accused as theoretical cultural Marxism. But we don't have pr126 to kick around anymore ;-(
What did become of pr? I seem to have missed that. Lack of logging in for reason unknown; MIA?
Or banned? KIA?
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on April 14, 2019, 01:15:05 PM
That sort of thinking got Donald Duck elected president.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I didn't say you had to lie doggo, just pointing out that grandstanding is a very old political ploy.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on April 16, 2019, 12:35:29 PM
Again. What are you talking about?
Nobody knows. Nobody.
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 16, 2019, 04:52:40 PM
Not even Baruch! LOL
If you used your Oija board, I would communicate the secret, remotely ;-) It is one of my Mac apps ;-)
The more remote, the better. ;-P
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 17, 2019, 01:46:52 PM
The more remote, the better. ;-P
You don't want to experience my other invention from the 1960s ... grope-a-vision? ;-))
Sounds like teledildonics.
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 17, 2019, 06:33:22 PM
Sounds like teledildonics.
More Trumpian. As said by Trump regarding women, and more darkly with men "Get them by the gonads with a pair of pliers"
Quote from: aitm on April 14, 2019, 02:23:17 PM
I have been a pro-choice advocate since the mid 70's. Some of it most likely self preservation....but in the later years far more for equality of the sexes as far as the law is concerned. Laws should be considered that the sex of the person behind the curtain is unknown.
That said, I have also been an advocate that women are 100% responsible for getting pregnant. Other than the obvious, it is their sole responsibility to protect themselves, because no one else will. I am not interested in the whole it takes two gamble. Yes it does, but we know that one of them doesn't give a shit so the only one that can get pregnant should be ones to protect themselves.
Frankly I really believe if we approached it this way women would be the better for it. Equal rights, equal responsibility....right? Well. No. You want absolute rights? You should have them. But take those rights and responsibility and hold that flag. Be responsible for your own body. Don't let anyone suggest you don't have the right to complete control, because you should have that right...and that responsibility. Champion it. I believe that should be women's mantra. I do. It's my body and my choice and I will be responsible. Now, get that right, and hold it and demand it and practice it and.......problem solved.
Shitstorm in 3.2.......
1...AITM, I am disappointed. You grant men a complete freedom of responsibility for pregnancies, and I have to disagree. No birth control method is 100% perfect and there are some physical consequences to all of them.
I have to agree with Cavebear. In my dark moods, a father with a daughter ... I think castration of boy friends is being too ... ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on April 18, 2019, 10:39:12 AM
I have to agree with Cavebear. In my dark moods, a father with a daughter ... I think castration of boy friends is being too ... ;-)
Ah Fathers... Their sweet little girl is always a virgin until married, and apparently sometimes until (or even after) giving birth.
LOL!
Quote from: Cavebear on April 18, 2019, 10:47:42 AM
Ah Fathers... Their sweet little girl is always a virgin until married, and apparently sometimes until (or even after) giving birth.
LOL!
Indeed ... in earliest times it was magic, we had no idea how sex led to babies. But once we did fathers were weaponized. Me Og, say hello to my club!
Quote from: Baruch on April 18, 2019, 10:56:36 AM
Indeed ... in earliest times it was magic, we had no idea how sex led to babies. But once we did fathers were weaponized. Me Og, say hello to my club!
Read 'Clan Of The Cave Bear' about how we figured that out. And try to figure out what "the signal" was...
Quote from: Cavebear on April 18, 2019, 01:01:05 PM
Read 'Clan Of The Cave Bear' about how we figured that out. And try to figure out what "the signal" was...
My daughter's favorite book series growing up. Very feminist. Also tribal, in that a lot of sex was group sex, not just one on one. But then paternity wasn't an issue back then.
There were multiple major cultural changes in the Neolithic, and then again in the early civilizations. Some time I think a lot of the rejection of society as it is today, is a longing for Stone Age culture, not giant Gundam robots. Alienation takes many forms. There is a lot of facts that are objectionable.