https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2019/mar/15/christchurch-shooting-injuries-reported-as-police-respond-to-critical-incident-live
QuoteForty people been killed and 20 injured in a terrorist attack on two mosques in Christchurch, which occurred during afternoon prayers.[/q]
- Three people â€" one of them an Australian-born man â€" are in custody.
- It was described as “a terrorist attack†by NZ prime minister Jacinda Ardern, and an “extremist, right-wing violent terrorist [attack]†by Australian prime minister Scott Morrison.
- Christchurch remains on lockdown.
- Ardern said: “Many directly affected by this shooting may be migrants to New Zealand, they may even be refugees here...They are us. The person who has perpetuated this violence against us is not.â€[/l]
I have just seen this. Let's hope it won't trigger anything around the globe and will be solved calmly.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on March 15, 2019, 04:07:53 AM
I have just seen this. Let's hope it won't trigger anything around the globe and will be solved calmly.
Choice of words ... "Solved" isn't in the vocabulary of international or inter-communal relations.
False flag? We will never know. NZ is rather Scandinavian now, so this could be an organized internal Right-wing action along the usual lines of Aus-NZ resistance to Muslim immigration/refugees from SE Asia. Politics in Australia seems more balanced on the issue.
On the event ... I grieve with anyone cut down by political terrorism.
It doesn't matter if it is false flag or not. I am worried there will be a retaliation. And worse it could start something in other already heated up places in the West.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on March 15, 2019, 06:09:48 AM
It doesn't matter if it is false flag or not. I am worried there will be a retaliation. And worse it could start something in other already heated up places in the West.
There is always retaliation. It is traditional ... and sometimes that is the whole point, to provoke the retaliation (hence false flag). History is one long vendetta between many tribes. There is no "solving" it.
I saw an anthropology film in HS, about tribal warfare in New Guinea. It was entirely based on the build up and release of social tensions, the release coming from ritual violence (war is liturgy of the war gods) ... fed by an endless tit-for-tat of revenge. Thus in an age of MWD ... humanity has no future, in the stars, or anywhere.
That is what happened with Trump and Brexit and Yellow Vests. There is a build up of tension within or between communities, and it will be released one way or another. This is why every sane society has allowed alcohol.
Just saw "49 dead".
How will they blame Obama for this?
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 15, 2019, 06:49:48 AM
Just saw "49 dead".
How will they blame Obama for this?
I don't think NZ is into Obama. They are into sheep.
Apparently, they have a 74 paged manifesto and have prepared for two years.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/new-zealand-mosque-terrorist-may-have-targeted-country-because-it-n983601
Quote...Although not confirmed by authorities, a 74-page manifesto titled "The Great Replacement" was posted online beforehand and matched several known details about the suspect and the attack.
It contains a sprawling array of anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim and white-supremacist references, repeating common far-right talking points. It also condemns attempts to restrict firearms in the U.S. and pledges to start an American race war. ...
The manifesto posted before the New Zealand attack references the victims of a terror attack in Stockholm and racial tensions in the Balkans.
The author says he was inspired by Charleston church shooter Dylann Roof as well as Anders Behring Breivik, the far-right terrorist who killed 77 people in Norway in 2011.
He says he aims to spark a civil war in the U.S. along divisions relating to gun rights and race.
Its author also says he is a supporter of President Donald Trump as what he describes as a symbol of white identity, but he adds that he dislikes Trump as a policymaker and a leader. ...
Although not confirmed by officials, the suspect appeared to film the attack on a head-mounted camera, live streaming the 17-minute incident to Facebook. The footage has since been taken down.
It shows him driving in a car while listening to a Serbian folk song about Radovan Karadzic, the Bosnian Serb political leader convicted of war crimes including the 1995 genocide of Muslims in Srebrenica.
He then gets out of the car, retrieves a weapon from the trunk, and walks through the mosque firing at the worshippers inside for several minutes.
He also appears to encourage viewers to subscribe to PewDiePie, one of the world's most famous YouTubers who has used racist language in the past and been accused of anti-Semitism.
PewDiePie, real name Felix Kjellberg, tweeted Friday that he felt "absolutely sickened having my name uttered by this person."
The video, and several images posted to social media that appear to tally with the incident, shows weapons scrawled with writing about Serbian knights who fought Ottoman Turks and Bosnian in the Middle Ages.
The manifesto condemns the U.S.-led bombing of Yugoslavia, which began 20 years ago next week, saying that NATO "fought beside Muslims and slaughtered Christian Europeans attempting to remove these Islamic occupiers from Europe."
I have read and listened a lot of elaborate woes from that manifesto. Apparently, he has a special thing for Turks. Gallipolli War, Vienna Siege, some other wars. Lapento war? (Lipento?) I didn't get that part. Isn't that a famous navy war which Ottomans were deafeted badly?
And he wrote the names of dead Nazis? Starting a race war in the US. Trump support.
I dunno guys. It's sounds too forced and elaborate to me. What timing.
Yeah he mentions Candace Owens and how she's too extreme for him, a guy who just shot like 50 people. Is that a joke?
He mentions a lot of things including being a fascist.
QuoteWere/are you a fascist?
Yes. For once, the person that will be called a fascist, is an actual fascist. I am sure the journalists will love that.
I mostly agree with Sir Oswald Mosley's views and consider myself an Eco-fascist by nature.
The nation with the closest political and social values to my own is the People's Republic of China.
Was there a political figure or party in history you most associate yourself with?
Sir Oswald Mosley is the person from history closest to my own beliefs.
Yeah, but it sounds designed. Everything is in one package! Best deal at this side of Pontar! Wtf.
It sounds barely literate to me. Something which would be in line with what he said about his education. I'm guessing he worked on this for months if not years, but yes it could have been a collaborative effort with his fellow murderers.
Oh yeah, there is no contradiction in that sense. But the timing, the place. What is going on in the US and the UK. We are having a very important election on the 31st.
New Zealand? An Australian terrorist in New Zealand? Bombing to kill Muslims? Far away, too close.
I am not the one for the conspiracy theories, but false flags attacks are hardly far fetched conspiracy theory material tbh. Imagine something like that happening in Europe. You can't control the outcome. US? No sides would benefit from it. UK...lol.
Apparently, he has worked it on for 2 years.
I don't mean to sound terrifying, but something feels like a new bombing season is just opened. Well, what's going to happen in the next 6 months is gonna tell, if this is a real one or not.
Terrorist attack, plain and simple.
Quote from: Sal1981 on March 15, 2019, 12:29:30 PM
Terrorist attack, plain and simple.
Yes, it is a terrorist attack. It is a terrorist attack, whoever-whatever is behind it. That's the problem with 'real' or false flag attacks, they are all terrorist attacks. Innocent people die. Outcome is the same for us ordinary people.
I just find it odd, that's all. An Australian man attacking mosques in New Zealand. Writing a loong manifesto about everything all around the globe, going back to 16th century wars. Does that really sound usual to you?
He shouted "Subscribe to Pewdiepie." In case you weren't aware, the media is freaking out about Pewdiepie and talking about how a Swedish video game streamer is "alt-right" or some stupid shit. Dude was every single SPLC cliche about the "alt-right" rolled into one. If anyone finds the shooter's persona believable then maybe you're ready to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.
He could have shouted 'Ann Coulter for Peace Nobel!' for all I care. There are thousands of Pewdiepies on the youtube alone. We are living through an era which people are expected to make racial slurs or derog comments on some minority, culture, ethnicity or gender or whatever the fuck. Most of the young generation wouldn't even notice them if they didn't. It's a specifically scripted new age gig to make money, become famous.
I personally find this attack odd, because exactly like the vlogger clown you mentioned above, this piece of shit looks too designed to me. It's not a claim, it is an impression I got.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on March 15, 2019, 12:48:28 PM
Yes, it is a terrorist attack. It is a terrorist attack, whoever-whatever is behind it. That's the problem with 'real' or false flag attacks, they are all terrorist attacks. Innocent people die. Outcome is the same for us ordinary people.
I just find it odd, that's all. An Australian man attacking mosques in New Zealand. Writing a loong manifesto about everything all around the globe, going back to 16th century wars. Does that really sound usual to you?
I read excerpts from his manifesto, I think it was someone cold and calculated that wants to escalate a literal culture war between what he described as Europeans against Muslim 'invaders'.
Others say he's insane, I think not. This was cold, calculated planning to trying to get people to choose sides in a civil war between identitarians. I agree with Tim Pool on this one; don't choose sides, we're all in this together.
[spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nsd9w3dHrI[/spoiler]
Him saying "subscribe to Pewdiepie" is a direct attempt to try to get people to foment into sides, a Us vs Them kinda mentality. He knew full well Pewdiepie would condemn this terrorist attack. But that's just it, he
wants division and sectarianism, he wants people to churn the machine into a civil war between factions. He wants the news to condemn Felix by association.
https://twitter.com/pewdiepie/status/1106419935390171136 (https://twitter.com/pewdiepie/status/1106419935390171136)
QuoteJust heard news of the devastating reports from New Zealand Christchurch.
I feel absolutely sickened having my name uttered by this person.
My heart and thoughts go out to the victims, families and everyone affected by this tragedy.
It is too bad that the manifesto was made public. It is giving that freak and his views the attention he wanted.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/03/14/sandy-hook-shooting-gunmaker-remington-can-sued-court-rules/3162168002/
Quote from: Sal1981 on March 15, 2019, 01:18:47 PM
I read excerpts from his manifesto, I think it was someone cold and calculated that wants to escalate a literal culture war between what he described as Europeans against Muslim 'invaders'.
Others say he's insane, I think not. This was cold, calculated planning to trying to get people to choose sides in a civil war between identitarians. I agree with Tim Pool on this one; don't choose sides, we're all in this together.
[spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nsd9w3dHrI[/spoiler]
Him saying "subscribe to Pewdiepie" is a direct attempt to try to get people to foment into sides, a Us vs Them kinda mentality. He knew full well Pewdiepie would condemn this terrorist attack. But that's just it, he wants division and sectarianism, he wants people to churn the machine into a civil war between factions. He wants the news to condemn Felix by association.
https://twitter.com/pewdiepie/status/1106419935390171136 (https://twitter.com/pewdiepie/status/1106419935390171136)
Oh I agree he is perfectly sane. I don't believe any of them are insane anyway. Pewdiepie has already gave a response of the sort I guess. I saw something like that.
Quote from: LoriPinkAngel on March 15, 2019, 02:03:04 PM
It is too bad that the manifesto was made public. It is giving that freak and his views the attention he wanted.
In this case, I think it's fine. Makes his intentions clear. Hopefully, anyone who would have considered attacking in retaliation otherwise will see his manifesto and decide not to give him what he wanted.
Quote from: Sal1981 on March 15, 2019, 01:18:47 PM
I read excerpts from his manifesto, I think it was someone cold and calculated that wants to escalate a literal culture war between what he described as Europeans against Muslim 'invaders'.
Others say he's insane, I think not. This was cold, calculated planning to trying to get people to choose sides in a civil war between identitarians. I agree with Tim Pool on this one; don't choose sides, we're all in this together.
[spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nsd9w3dHrI[/spoiler]
Him saying "subscribe to Pewdiepie" is a direct attempt to try to get people to foment into sides, a Us vs Them kinda mentality. He knew full well Pewdiepie would condemn this terrorist attack. But that's just it, he wants division and sectarianism, he wants people to churn the machine into a civil war between factions. He wants the news to condemn Felix by association.
https://twitter.com/pewdiepie/status/1106419935390171136 (https://twitter.com/pewdiepie/status/1106419935390171136)
A Civil War requires violence on both sides, but only one side resorts to violence. Yet Tim Pool thinks the Left share equal blame in this "Civil War." No, the answer to violence from the Right is not for the Left give in to their demands. If the Right wants a war, that's on them.
I also find it funny how quick those on the Right are to accuse (often falsely) a terrorist of being a Muslim, but when we have terrorists like these who are in no uncertain terms white supremacists, they want to dissociate themselves from it. When it's the former, it is an excuse to push for anti-Muslim policies, but in the latter they say, "Don't use this as an excuse to push policies against guns!" Typical Right-Wing hypocrisy.
Quote from: Blackleaf on March 15, 2019, 03:34:02 PM
In this case, I think it's fine. Makes his intentions clear. Hopefully, anyone who would have considered attacking in retaliation otherwise will see his manifesto and decide not to give him what he wanted.
Not sure about that anymore. I think the world has passed that phase.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on March 15, 2019, 04:33:23 PM
Not sure about that anymore. I think the world has passed that phase.
We hear this kind of rhetoric all the time. Hearing it come from a terrorist doesn't make it look any better, but it might give pause to anyone who might have agreed with him before this.
(https://i.redd.it/lfr3nhcm99m21.jpg)
Literally blaming the victims.
Holy fuck.
That is literally the most fucked up use of, "I'm not racist, but..." I have ever seen. And it's from a Senator.
Shit, even American politicians are hesitant to go both that far-right wing and that far Christian dominionistic.
Quote from: Shiranu on March 15, 2019, 06:49:40 PM
Shit, even American politicians are hesitant to go both that far-right wing and that far Christian dominionistic.
Well, so far, anyway, but we aren't done yet.
Quote from: Sal1981 on March 15, 2019, 12:29:30 PM
Terrorist attack, plain and simple.
Nations are the greatest terror of all.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on March 15, 2019, 01:11:45 PM
He could have shouted 'Ann Coulter for Peace Nobel!' for all I care. There are thousands of Pewdiepies on the youtube alone. We are living through an era which people are expected to make racial slurs or derog comments on some minority, culture, ethnicity or gender or whatever the fuck. Most of the young generation wouldn't even notice them if they didn't. It's a specifically scripted new age gig to make money, become famous.
I personally find this attack odd, because exactly like the vlogger clown you mentioned above, this piece of shit looks too designed to me. It's not a claim, it is an impression I got.
Have you already forgotten the 50+ who died in Las Vegas, 18 months ago? That was really odd too.
Quote from: Blackleaf on March 15, 2019, 03:34:02 PM
In this case, I think it's fine. Makes his intentions clear. Hopefully, anyone who would have considered attacking in retaliation otherwise will see his manifesto and decide not to give him what he wanted.
ISIS has already declared a "death fatwa" against the NZ PM. And who backs ISIS? I give you three guesses; USA, USA, USA.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 15, 2019, 02:15:06 PM
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/03/14/sandy-hook-shooting-gunmaker-remington-can-sued-court-rules/3162168002/
Eventually civil courts will take away all rights, sorry about that. Ambulance chasers have bigger fish to fry.
I think most peeps will see a nut from the nuts. It's not that hard. I was surprised at the little counter action we had after 911..thankfully. But I was indeed wrong that Bubba and Billy Bob would start driving round targeting them moooslims. Though it would not take much for tRump supporters to go off rail, I actually think many of them are kinda backing off a bit.
Quote from: Blackleaf on March 15, 2019, 04:58:00 PM
We hear this kind of rhetoric all the time. Hearing it come from a terrorist doesn't make it look any better, but it might give pause to anyone who might have agreed with him before this.
If this rhetoric goes unchallenged, is silenced, it will undoubtedly foment divisions further.
My biggest gripe is that these ideas will most likely be censored instead of challenged. You don't destroy ideas by censorship. You can't kill ideas by censorship. It will only result in them resurfacing from the underbelly of the Internet. I think we should inform people, challenge these destructive ideologies with better ideas and ways. Talk with people.
If you stop talking, people will take up arms.
Guys, these things are so easy to go out of hand. Well, you all know that. People are so easy to manipulate and some of them stupid enough to follow. That and any possible retaliations. It's like hay catching fire in a suitable climate. I know you guys have nothing to do with these places. But please stay away from churches.
Something already happened in East London, a little event with no casualties. A 27 year old muslim man was attacked by a batten and hammer. He suffered head injuries, not serious. Couldn't find any big source.
https://www.dhakatribune.com/world/europe/2019/03/16/muslim-man-attacked-outside-london-mosque-with-hammer
QuoteThe attackers reportedly shouted Islamophobic slurs before attacking
A Muslim man was attacked with a "hammer†outside an East London mosque, just hours after the terrorist attack in two New Zealand mosques.
Police said the victim is a 27-year-old, who suffered head injuries, according to the Independent.
Eyewitnesses said the attackers were a group of three men, who shouted Islamophobic slurs as they drove past the mosque on Cannon Street Road.
They were calling people who came for the Friday prayers "terrorists," witnesses added.
Some of the worshippers tried to pursue them, which prompted two of the men to attack them with what is thought to be a hammer. After the attack, they dove into a moving car and drove off.
London police have so far been unable to detain anyone.
The attack comes less than a day after the worst terrorist attack in New Zealand, and one of the worst anti-Muslim attacks in recent memory, leaving 49 dead and scores grievously injured.
In the wake of the New Zealand attack, London police asked mosques to be on high alert against similar attacks.
Quote from: Baruch on March 15, 2019, 07:19:32 PM
Have you already forgotten the 50+ who died in Las Vegas, 18 months ago? That was really odd too.
It didn't look odd to me. I've posted about that. My guess was Soveriegn Citizen. Just a guess. Acording to the FBI report it's a much bigger threat than Islamic Terrorism in the US.
Quote from: aitm on March 15, 2019, 08:33:42 PM
I think most peeps will see a nut from the nuts. It's not that hard. I was surprised at the little counter action we had after 911..thankfully. But I was indeed wrong that Bubba and Billy Bob would start driving round targeting them moooslims. Though it would not take much for tRump supporters to go off rail, I actually think many of them are kinda backing off a bit.
Well, it is not into their benefit now is it? With all their big boss in trouble. And if something like that starts in the US...I don't want to even think about it.
I am so depressed about everything going on over here, I keep thinking and feeling like there is always some push to start something. Civil wars, terrorist attacks...any kind of bloodshed; lethal provocation of any kind. Like a fucking gore menu. I am exhausted. Sigh. Everything's so dark from my eyes. It's like there is this huge monster machine comes like a shadow whenever it wants and feed on innocent people and nobody powerful enough to stop it, actually wants to stop it. That makes me angry.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on March 16, 2019, 07:06:02 AM
I am so depressed about everything going on over here, I keep thinking and feeling like there is always some push to start something. Civil wars, terrorist attacks...any kind of bloodshed; lethal provocation of any kind. Like a fucking gore menu. I am exhausted. Sigh. Everything's so dark from my eyes. It's like there is this huge monster machine comes like a shadow whenever it wants and feed on innocent people and nobody powerful enough to stop it, actually wants to stop it. That makes me angry.
That is what I feel like about this country. I keep having this dark feeling that Germany 1932 here we are.
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 16, 2019, 09:23:39 AM
That is what I feel like about this country. I keep having this dark feeling that Germany 1932 here we are.
Or Russia 1917. As long as people are idealists (Germany and Russia were taken in by idealists).
Quote from: Baruch on March 16, 2019, 09:53:47 AM
Or Russia 1917. As long as people are idealists (Germany and Russia were taken in by idealists).
I don't think 'idealists' are the problem. There is no way a follower of trump can be labeled as an idealist. I am waiting for the Reichstag fire--or what will fill that role for trump. Then he can make his absolute power grab.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on March 16, 2019, 07:06:02 AM
I am so depressed about everything going on over here, I keep thinking and feeling like there is always some push to start something. Civil wars, terrorist attacks...any kind of bloodshed; lethal provocation of any kind. Like a fucking gore menu. I am exhausted. Sigh. Everything's so dark from my eyes. It's like there is this huge monster machine comes like a shadow whenever it wants and feed on innocent people and nobody powerful enough to stop it, actually wants to stop it. That makes me angry.
The sad reality is this is part of the lives we live, much as we want things better, much as there are rational people wanting to end war and violence and terrorism, the sad fact is its just not easy to achieve. Take america for example, people there want the mass shootings that occur almost yearly now to end, but the country itself doesn't want to relinquish its rights to carry firearms. You can educate people, but all it takes is one person with a few broken neurons in their brain to decide one day they have to moral issue with killing fifty people.
This is like how it happens in nature, you could see a charming scene of a group of gorillas living together, it makes you feel glad they exist or that their living peacefully. But then a rival group of gorillas comes in and kills the first group of territory.
And yeah, we're better then animals, because we understand the workings of the human mind and how to improve ourselves outside of our baser instincts, but we're still just an evolved ape, and there are so many of us now, this is simply bound to happen, no matter how evolved we might feel, all it takes is one individual with undeveloped empathy and a weapon mankind keeps producing to kill others.
You just have to learn to work through it and accept, there is some bad shit in the world, just don't let that rule over your day to day life, or you become a victim to it yourself.
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 16, 2019, 10:36:56 AM
I don't think 'idealists' are the problem. There is no way a follower of trump can be labeled as an idealist. I am waiting for the Reichstag fire--or what will fill that role for trump. Then he can make his absolute power grab.
Idealist not equal to Progressive. Progressive=Left Idealist. Regressive=Right Idealist. Idealist aka lives in their heads, are impractical dreamers of future or former times. Usually tending to extremism Pragmatist=Centrist. And we don't tend toward extremism, other than ennui against the nuts we share the planet with.
No Democrat is a dictator? Really? See, you are just like pr126 (it is an age thing?). He has Muslims under his bed. You have Republicans under your bed. Both of you need Daddy/Mommy to come and scare them away ;-) I have bed bugs under my bead. They are real. Muslim supermen or Republican supermen aren't real, they are memes.
You can have an end to violence of sorts ... in the Gulag or the Death Camps. D or R, both end badly. To stop my neighbor from doing things I don't like, in a climate of hysteria, I have to either imprison him or kill him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSvS4LY26Yg
R = look to the past (false version)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL7NlRiMJXY
D = look to the future (BS prognostication)
At least as a theist, I stand a greater chance under R, unless they are anti-semitic.
The dude specifically designed everything to light everyone up and Get us all fighting each other, he wanted to hurt everyone, and he knew gunning innocents down would hurt more and more. He’s a sadistic psychopath
The larger issue, which is not a new issue but the oldest and same issue, is ignorance of the masses. The "politicians" steal the money from the masses and blame all the ills on a third party for the masses to revolt against. The "politicians" then feign disgust at the actions of the masses as they bank the gold and strip funding from education. And they say Ponzi was a crook.
Quote from: aitm on March 16, 2019, 09:23:57 PM
The larger issue, which is not a new issue but the oldest and same issue, is ignorance of the masses. The "politicians" steal the money from the masses and blame all the ills on a third party for the masses to revolt against. The "politicians" then feign disgust at the actions of the masses as they bank the gold and strip funding from education. And they say Ponzi was a crook.
But is anarchism the oldest conspiracy theory?
Yeah, one more white guy is killing minorities he hates, and Trump thinks that is a minor issue.
MSNBC showed a graphic demonstrating that 74& of all hate-crime killings were done by white supremecists and another 24% were done by Islamists. And we fear Islamists more? Follow the numbers...
We need to clean up our own countries (US for me) first.
If you want a pissing contest on who kills more people, then I fear for you.
Quote from: Sal1981 on March 17, 2019, 12:20:36 AM
If you want a pissing contest on who kills more people, then I fear for you.
You are, I suppose, counting the deaths elsewhere as insane people kill each other daily in droves. I do care about that. But I was talking about in the Western World. And I fully understand that that is not "The World". But while I can try to restrict violence in my part of the world, I cannot stop it everywhere.
So, I try for here.
And oh crap that sounds awful... BUT I can't do anything about India vs Pakistan, and I can't do anything about Syria, and I can't do anything about Venuzuela, and I can't do anything about Indonesia, and I can't do anything about all the "stans" in Asia. All I can do is try to do something HERE!
We have a complete disaster for a President. He won't even try to keep international groups functioning. He is a nutso. I have to focus here until we remove the orange menace from office one legal way or another. For once in the past century, the rest of you are all on yer own until we here in the US get past THIS problem (of our own making).
You have had your own problems in the past and we have helped. But we need some time to undo a terrible mistake, so stop messing things up in the meantime.
I'll leave you with a thought. If Hillary Clinton had become US President in 2016 instead of Trumpty-Dumpty, with her rational international experience, do YOU think Britain would be leaving the EU?
Quote from: Cavebear on March 17, 2019, 01:06:30 AM
You are, I suppose, counting the deaths elsewhere as insane people kill each other daily in droves. I do care about that. But I was talking about in the Western World. And I fully understand that that is not "The World". But while I can try to restrict violence in my part of the world, I cannot stop it everywhere.
So, I try for here.
And oh crap that sounds awful... BUT I can't do anything about India vs Pakistan, and I can't do anything about Syria, and I can't do anything about Venuzuela, and I can't do anything about Indonesia, and I can't do anything about all the "stans" in Asia. All I can do is try to do something HERE!
We have a complete disaster for a President. He won't even try to keep international groups functioning. He is a nutso. I have to focus here until we remove the orange menace from office one legal way or another. For once in the past century, the rest of you are all on yer own until we here in the US get past THIS problem (of our own making).
You have had your own problems in the past and we have helped. But we need some time to undo a terrible mistake, so stop messing things up in the meantime.
I'll leave you with a thought. If Hillary Clinton had become US President in 2016 instead of Trumpty-Dumpty, with her rational international experience, do YOU think Britain would be leaving the EU?
I don't think Trump had anything to do with Brexit. That was just ignorance and local propaganda leading to people making a stupid decision on a matter they knew nothing about. What we did get from Trump includes: losing the respect of other nations, a bunch of unqualified assholes in important places of power, a weakened economy (but not for the uber rich), an extended government shutdown, human rights violations, a Right leaning Supreme Court featuring guy who likes to drink and has a strange emotional attachment to calendars, empowerment of white supremacist groups, "Nazis are bad" becoming a controversial political statement, and a partridge in a pair tree. And he's far from done.
Quote from: Blackleaf on March 17, 2019, 01:54:57 AM
I don't think Trump had anything to do with Brexit. That was just ignorance and local propaganda leading to people making a stupid decision on a matter they knew nothing about. What we did get from Trump includes: losing the respect of other nations, a bunch of unqualified assholes in important places of power, a weakened economy (but not for the uber rich), an extended government shutdown, human rights violations, a Right leaning Supreme Court featuring guy who likes to drink and has a strange emotional attachment to calendars, empowerment of white supremacist groups, "Nazis are bad" becoming a controversial political statement, and a partridge in a pair tree. And he's far from done.
I think you miss the point. Had Hillary Clinton been elected, she probably would have found a way to stop the Brexit and helped keep the EU functioning with Britain in it. The EU is the US's best friend in the world and MOST of us here know that. It's the 33% that are fanatical Trump nuts who don't and there is probably nothing I can do about that except outlive them...
And yes, there are stupid people in Britain just like in the US and they pulled out their pitchforks and tar at the same time some idiots did here.
This nonsense will pass away, but we have to wait for new elections here and there.
Or it could be that the world is going to hell in a handbasket and this creepy nonsense will become standard and we will have a new age of UTTER COMPLETE IDIOCY. History is full of irrational changes like that. I prefer to think positively, but we will have to wait and see.
I expect that the US will come back from the brink.
How could she stop a vote in GB, that occurred before the 2016 election? Hillary magic?
Quote from: Baruch on March 17, 2019, 06:03:20 AM
How could be stop a vote in GB, that occurred before the 2016 election? Hillary magic?
The point is that it could have been more easily stopped a couple years ago by an activist competent US President. By a Hillary Clinton, as opposed to a Donald Trump. A few words here, a few words there, and maybe some fuses would have been snuffed... A storm blown over and Western Democracy goes on...
Quote from: Cavebear on March 17, 2019, 06:11:55 AM
The point is that it could have been more easily stopped a couple years ago by an activist competent US President. By a Hillary Clinton, as opposed to a Donald Trump. A few words here, a few words there, and maybe some fuses would have been snuffed... A storm blown over and Western Democracy goes on...
Obama was president then. Are you complaining about Obama? You just seem to be ... irrational this morning.
What could any president in the last two years do, about GB politics? Obama did try to encourage "remainers". Some Brits didn't like that interference.
As far as Brexit, personally, I have no dog in that race. I don't like the EU, but what GB does isn't up to me. I just find this an excuse to observe their politics, and how bizarre it seems compared to the American version. And I have my favorite British bull dogs ... though they tend to be pragmatist Tory. Boris Johnson seems like a British version of Trump, without the money, but better education and much better speaker skills. Rees-Mogg is such a stereotype upperclassman.
Quote from: Baruch on March 17, 2019, 06:17:54 AM
Obama was president then. Are you complaining about Obama? You just seem to be ... irrational this morning.
What could any president in the last two years do, about GB politics? Obama did try to encourage "remainers". Some Brits didn't like that interference.
As far as Brexit, personally, I have no dog in that race. I don't like the EU, but what GB does isn't up to me. I just find this an excuse to observe their politics, and how bizarre it seems compared to the American version. And I have my favorite British bull dogs ... though they tend to be pragmatist Tory. Boris Johnson seems like a British version of Trump, without the money, but better education and much better speaker skills. Rees-Mogg is such a stereotype upperclassman.
Obama wasn't President in the last two years, Trump was. And apparently he is glorying in Brexit because Putin is too. In fact, this is pretty near the wet-dream of Putin to see Europe starting to pull itself apart again, so he can try to pick up the eastern pieces while Britain and the US are otherwise self-involved.
And I rather expect that you would like to see that too, as you do like to see things fall apart for some reason only known to yourself..
Quote from: Cavebear on March 17, 2019, 06:27:19 AM
Obama wasn't President in the last two years, Trump was. And apparently he is glorying in Brexit because Putin is too. In fact, this is pretty near the wet-dream of Putin to see Europe starting to pull itself apart again, so he can try to pick up the eastern pieces while Britain and the US are otherwise self-involved.
And I rather expect that you would like to see that too, as you do like to see things fall apart for some reason only known to yourself..
I know you hate Trump (for the 1000 time) and admire Hillary (for the 1000 time). So Putin controls the world, really? Well, with you and I at our age, we see the Soviet Union in every stranger's face, don't we?
Hard to say what will happen in the future (as is always the case). It is possible, that EU will fail, regardless of politics (they have to get all their natural gas from Russia). Nato has been a dead letter since 1992. I suppose (as any person of our age would say) that Nato must be maintained at all cost, and that the EU is part of that strategy.
Recently it has been noted, that while Churchill was one of the first people to promote the EU idea, he didn't want GB to be part of it, but above it. Quite the reasonable position, given that anything with Germans in it, should be kept at arm's length.
Quote from: Baruch on March 17, 2019, 06:33:12 AM
I know you hate Trump (for the 1000 time) and admire Hillary (for the 1000 time). So Putin controls the world, really? Well, with you and I at our age, we see the Soviet Union in every stranger's face, don't we?
Hard to say what will happen in the future (as is always the case). It is possible, that EU will fail, regardless of politics (they have to get all their natural gas from Russia). Nato has been a dead letter since 1992. I suppose (as any person of our age would say) that Nato must be maintained at all cost, and that the EU is part of that strategy.
Recently it has been noted, that while Churchill was one of the first people to promote the EU idea, he didn't want GB to be part of it, but above it. Quite the reasonable position, given that anything with Germans in it, should be kept at arm's length.
Slightly good understanding of post-WWII Europe, but NATO continued past then for a good reason and into the EEC and then EU eras. I actually do wish it had been more helpful but slightly less aggressive in incorporating former Eastern Bloc Nations, but I can understand why they tried to take advantage of the Soviet Collapse. I happened to be taking some graduate level seminars about the Soviet collapse at the time.
Talk about being IN the right spot AT the right time, Wow...
Nobody anticipated the collapse of the Soviet Union (or expects the Spanish Inquisition (sarc)). Though it was mostly a good thing I think.
Quote"Australia's unlikely hero, dubbed "Egg Boy," is still on his crusade to help victims of the deadly mosque shooting in Christchurch, New Zealand. The vigilante first rose to fame when he cracked an egg on an Australian senator's head on live TV Saturday. Legal funds were raised for "Egg Boy," and the creator of the GoFundMe says the teen is donating those funds to the mosque victims.
It all started when Queensland Sen. Fraser Anning blamed Muslim immigration for the terror attack at two mosques in New Zealand that left 50 people dead. Anning received widespread criticism, but it was a 17-year-old boy named Will Connolly who took it upon himself to serve up a unique form of justice.
Connolly ran up to Anning while he was talking to reporters on live TV and smashed a raw egg on his head. Anning swatted at the teen and ended up hitting him on the head. Connolly was apprehended."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gHyP0c5Ohc
Maybe the kid should not have used the egg in that way, but the politician didn't exactly show professionalism. And his statements were hateful and ignorant, so I might have used an egg in a similar way, just from a bit farther away.
Quote from: Baruch on March 17, 2019, 06:59:16 AM
Nobody anticipated the collapse of the Soviet Union (or expects the Spanish Inquisition (sarc)). Though it was mostly a good thing I think.
It was not as unanticipated as you might think. The Soviet Union was struggling for years.
Quote from: Cavebear on March 21, 2019, 06:24:30 AM
It was not as unanticipated as you might think. The Soviet Union was struggling for years.
But ... our CIA etc had no idea. Guess they are just more incompetent government employees, right? (sarc). The government employees I know, do the best they can under the circumstances.
I thought that's what Reagans "Star Wars" was all about? And our excessive military budget. Make the soviets try to keep up with us, spending so much money that the USSR couldn't help but collapse. If that's the case, then it was anything but unanticipated.
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 21, 2019, 01:12:55 PM
I thought that's what Reagans "Star Wars" was all about? And out excessive military budget. Make the soviets try to keep up with us, spending so much money that the USSR couldn't help but collapse. If that's the case, then it was anything but unanticipated.
"Star Wars" never happened. That was primarily pushed by Henry Kissinger. I did know a guy, who was a proposal manager for a component of "Star Wars", but he lost the bid, and the winner never got to build anything. At the time, not only was the US out-teching the USSR in some respects, they were losing their shirts in Afghanistan (as we are now). However the X-37 is real ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37
5th vehicle is currently in orbit, a space drone, not unlike the in-atmosphere drones that are so common today.
I suspect the move to develop a Space Service separate from the Air Force, is because it is too numerous and too classified to be handled by the Air Force.