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News & General Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: SoldierofFortune on March 06, 2019, 05:51:38 PM

Title: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: SoldierofFortune on March 06, 2019, 05:51:38 PM
but i am afraid of going to "nowhere"...
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: SoldierofFortune on March 06, 2019, 05:52:19 PM
i am afraid of nothingness...
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Unbeliever on March 06, 2019, 05:54:36 PM
Why? You came from "nowhere" - did it bother you at all?
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Draconic Aiur on March 06, 2019, 06:03:32 PM
but you won't have to think about it
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Mike Cl on March 06, 2019, 06:09:52 PM
but i am afraid of going to "nowhere"...
That's too bad.  If I had a magic wand I could wave and take your fear away, I would.  At least you won't be in any pain, in 'nowhere'.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Unbeliever on March 06, 2019, 06:14:50 PM
I was really glad to jettison my fear of hell when I ceased believing in it, along with my belief in God. But oblivion doesn't scare me at all. My only regret is that I won't know how things turn out for humanity and the Earth's biosphere. But I won't know that I don't know, once I'm no longer aware.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: SoldierofFortune on March 06, 2019, 06:44:49 PM
I want my ego to live forever.
isnt it a consolation for humans the reason to believe in any kind of a god that provides them a life for forever...
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: SoldierofFortune on March 06, 2019, 06:48:19 PM
Why? You came from "nowhere" - did it bother you at all?

yes, before i was inseminated, i was in nowhere, and after i die i will join nowhere...ğ
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Unbeliever on March 06, 2019, 07:01:27 PM
Not liking the prospect of being nowhere makes no difference, acceptance is the only way to live with it - otherwise it may just drive you to religion, or drive you crazy, as it has millions of others.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 06, 2019, 07:38:21 PM
I want my ego to live forever.
isnt it a consolation for humans the reason to believe in any kind of a god that provides them a life for forever...

So do all the ego maniacs.  Per Buddha, you aren't even the same person you were yesterday.  That "you" is already nothing.

No, eternal life, isn't a good idea at all.  With Osiris, he was as sewn together cadaver, which is necrophiliac wife, Isis, had the hots for.

In the Mahabharata ... the bad guys end up in Heaven and the good guys end up in Hell.  And that is the final illusion of a trickster Brahman (creation is just Brahman's dreams).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0JXcPxkSGE

Balinese retelling ...

Now for the rest of the story ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laB2rWYaCj4
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Munch on March 06, 2019, 08:17:40 PM
Dude, if it helps you, consider this. In time, Everything will be gone, our planet, the sun, all the stars in the universe, the gases that create stars, even the black holes will dissipate into nothing in time, leading an endless black void without a trace anything was even there.

Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 06, 2019, 08:25:10 PM
Dude, if it helps you, consider this. In time, Everything will be gone, our planet, the sun, all the stars in the universe, the gases that create stars, even the black holes will dissipate into nothing in time, leading an endless black void without a trace anything was even there.

in Greece, Chronus (time) devours all.  So does Krishna claim, in his Gita.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Munch on March 06, 2019, 08:37:16 PM
in Greece, Chronus (time) devours all.  So does Krishna claim, in his Gita.

Chronus and all gods will be long forgotten before the universe snuffs out.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Draconic Aiur on March 06, 2019, 08:39:33 PM
in Greece, Chronus (time) devours all.  So does Krishna claim, in his Gita.

Kronos.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Unbeliever on March 06, 2019, 08:45:35 PM
Dude, if it helps you, consider this. In time, Everything will be gone, our planet, the sun, all the stars in the universe, the gases that create stars, even the black holes will dissipate into nothing in time, leading an endless black void without a trace anything was even there.


Maybe eventually the Poincare recurrence will happen, and we'll all come back to do this all over again.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Munch on March 06, 2019, 08:57:49 PM
Maybe eventually the Poincare recurrence will happen, and we'll all come back to do this all over again.

I saw that futurama episode, was a good one.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Blackleaf on March 06, 2019, 09:35:04 PM
I don't agree with this sentiment at all. Living is hard; being dead is easy. I would much rather not exist than have a torturous existence. Find what matters to you and focus on that. Make the most of this life while you can.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Munch on March 06, 2019, 09:57:16 PM
I don't agree with this sentiment at all. Living is hard; being dead is easy. I would much rather not exist than have a torturous existence. Find what matters to you and focus on that. Make the most of this life while you can.

its a sad state really. We could find out what we want to do most in life, but many of us probably won't ever achieve it. for many just existing on the mortal plain is all we can have, some even just living day by day the best they can, and then they die.

For me, thinking existentially about the universe helps, since you just think about how vast the universe is, how long its been here, how long its gonna be here for once we're dead, and just having existed within it for a fraction of its time to ponder these things, to be one of the only creatures on this planet to wonder about such things, just makes the time we have all the more meaningful just getting to consider the vastness of it all.

Also, as its been said, matter can't be destroyed, only reconstituted into other forms, so when we die, however we choose to go, ashes, buried, in the end we all end up becoming matter for the universe to consume, before being sucked into a black hole and spat out over the cosmos.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Cavebear on March 07, 2019, 01:44:45 AM
i am afraid of nothingness...

I don't understand that.  When you die, you aren't aware that you are dead.  You are the light switch turned "off"!
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 07, 2019, 02:32:56 AM
Kronos.

So are you with the CH,CH,CH or the KKK?
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 07, 2019, 02:33:55 AM
Chronus and all gods will be long forgotten before the universe snuffs out.

You first ;-)  Actually I will miss you.  But I am a sentimentalist.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 07, 2019, 02:34:40 AM
Maybe eventually the Poincare recurrence will happen, and we'll all come back to do this all over again.

So, now you are channeling Nietzsche's eternal recurrence?  Yes, the Third Reich will be endlessly repeated ...
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 07, 2019, 02:36:15 AM
I saw that futurama episode, was a good one.

Where they finally fell on themselves and crushed themselves?  Clever that.  Not.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 07, 2019, 02:37:34 AM
I don't understand that.  When you die, you aren't aware that you are dead.  You are the light switch turned "off"!

Buddhist ;-)  That is Nirvana ... and can be partly achieved in this life, by not watching Fox News ;-)
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Cavebear on March 07, 2019, 03:41:49 AM

Also, as its been said, matter can't be destroyed, only reconstituted into other forms, so when we die, however we choose to go, ashes, buried, in the end we all end up becoming matter for the universe to consume, before being sucked into a black hole and spat out over the cosmos.

My Will instructions are that I want to be cremated and my ashes spread across my garden.  It amuses me that the new residents may eat my elemental atoms unknowingly as part of the tomatoes...   LOL!
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 07, 2019, 07:11:57 AM
My Will instructions are that I want to be cremated and my ashes spread across my garden.  It amuses me that the new residents may eat my elemental atoms unknowingly as part of the tomatoes...   LOL!

You are already breathing air that Caesar farted, 2000 years ago ;-)
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Cavebear on March 07, 2019, 10:24:48 AM
You are already breathing air that Caesar farted, 2000 years ago ;-)

Exactly!  And the poop of gooses, the farts of extinct dinosaurs, the pee of bears (Bear Whiz Beer - "Its in the water son, that's why its yellow"), and the snot of some Brit kid Caesar's army butchered...

Everything reduces to the elements (or REALLY stable molecules, if you want to get all technical) and we recycle them one way or another!
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 07, 2019, 12:52:29 PM
What is wrong with that, isn't the facts, but that you are entertained or consoled by such a dismal fact.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Unbeliever on March 07, 2019, 01:18:09 PM
You see it as dismal? I don't. I see it as us all being connected to everything that's ever lived on this planet, or that ever will live.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Mr.Obvious on March 07, 2019, 01:44:21 PM
What's with title, soldier? Some Joke going over my head? Or one too many to drink?
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Cavebear on March 07, 2019, 04:28:51 PM
What's with title, soldier? Some Joke going over my head? Or one too many to drink?

There was some theist named Charles Spugeon who had 104 quotes

https://theblazingcenter.com/2018/10/charles-spurgeon-quotes.html

I didn't know anything about the title until you asked about it so I looked it up. 
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Munch on March 07, 2019, 04:29:45 PM
My Will instructions are that I want to be cremated and my ashes spread across my garden.  It amuses me that the new residents may eat my elemental atoms unknowingly as part of the tomatoes...   LOL!

but then your atoms will be pooped out, and go on an amazing journey though the sewer, and out to sea, to be eaten by a fish, who gets eaten by a larger fish, who then poops again, and they poop washed up on a beach, that grows into grass, only for the grass to be consumed by a cow, that pooped out, and turned into manure, which grows corn, and that corn gets turned into cereal, that little timmy eats, and poops out, to get flushed down the same toilet system, in an endless cycle, until the sun dies out.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Cavebear on March 07, 2019, 04:43:08 PM
but then your atoms will be pooped out, and go on an amazing journey though the sewer, and out to sea, to be eaten by a fish, who gets eaten by a larger fish, who then poops again, and they poop washed up on a beach, that grows into grass, only for the grass to be consumed by a cow, that pooped out, and turned into manure, which grows corn, and that corn gets turned into cereal, that little timmy eats, and poops out, to get flushed down the same toilet system, in an endless cycle, until the sun dies out.

YEAH! 

The only thing that concerns me about this is that SOME WEERD IDJIT will try to explain that this is an "afterlife"...
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Unbeliever on March 07, 2019, 06:32:43 PM
The protons and electrons that make up our physical bodies have been around since the beginning of the universe, drifting around willy-nilly, and will continue to do so as long as the universe exists. The atoms that we're made of were fused inside stars at some point after the beginning. They've come together for a (short) while to be us, and they'll go on after us to constitute other life. Whether we're buried or burned, those particles will still exist. But "we" will return to oblivion, where we've been for billions of years.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Unbeliever on March 07, 2019, 06:33:07 PM
I'm wondering if religion isn't linked more to a fear of parental abandonment than it is to a fear of death?
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 07, 2019, 06:47:14 PM
I'm wondering if religion isn't linked more to a fear of parental abandonment than it is to a fear of death?

Parental abandonment leads to death.  And sometimes during sieges, your mother can't wait to eat you up, literally.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 07, 2019, 06:47:59 PM
YEAH! 

The only thing that concerns me about this is that SOME WEERD IDJIT will try to explain that this is an "afterlife"...

It is, but only for materialists ;-)
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 07, 2019, 06:49:15 PM
The protons and electrons that make up our physical bodies have been around since the beginning of the universe, drifting around willy-nilly, and will continue to do so as long as the universe exists. The atoms that we're made of were fused inside stars at some point after the beginning. They've come together for a (short) while to be us, and they'll go on after us to constitute other life. Whether we're buried or burned, those particles will still exist. But "we" will return to oblivion, where we've been for billions of years.

Yes, but did they do anything useful, this time around?  And you change all the molecules in your body about every 3 years.

Karma is worse, which is why Buddha tried to find a way to escape it.  Per justice, you become, for example, every fly you ever swatted.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Unbeliever on March 07, 2019, 06:53:13 PM
And you change all the molecules in your body about every 3 years.

Interesting - got any references for that?
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Unbeliever on March 07, 2019, 06:57:51 PM
Parental abandonment leads to death.

Well, not always, since there have been cases of feral children surviving such abandonment:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: aitm on March 07, 2019, 09:28:03 PM
Send me 5,000 bucks and I can guarantee that you will be sitting next to God.....on every 6,757,383,959th day. No worries though....as the after life is eternal that gives you at least 6,757,383,959 times to sit next to god.....criminy you gettin greedy?
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 08, 2019, 06:28:55 AM
Well, not always, since there have been cases of feral children surviving such abandonment:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child

Don't try that at home either, kids!  Is that you Hansel?  How good did that nice grandma in the gingerbread house, taste?  Even old ladies need a little .. personal .. stimulation.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 08, 2019, 06:29:34 AM
Send me 5,000 bucks and I can guarantee that you will be sitting next to God.....on every 6,757,383,959th day. No worries though....as the after life is eternal that gives you at least 6,757,383,959 times to sit next to god.....criminy you gettin greedy?

See, materialists for fiat money are fools.  Demand gold or go away.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 08, 2019, 06:33:13 AM
Interesting - got any references for that?

From LiveScience, using a 1995 reference ...

"Red blood cells live for about four months, while white blood cells live on average more than a year. Skin cells live about two or three weeks. Colon cells have it rough: They die off after about four days. Sperm cells have a life span of only about three days, while brain cells typically last an entire lifetime (neurons in the cerebral cortex, for example, are not replaced when they die).

There's nothing special or significant about a seven-year cycle, since cells are dying and being replaced all the time. It's not clear where this myth began; perhaps some well-meaning but innumerate person simply added up the all the lifespans of the body's various types of cells and (mistakenly) assumed that all the cells are renewed after seven years."

But it is disputed, and there has to be newer research.  Another quote from 2015 ...

"Your body mostly replaces itself every seven to 15 years. Some bits are never replaced. Others like the lining of your stomach and intestines are renewed much faster. Due to the constant wear and tear from the process of digestion, these cells have an average lifespan of just five days".

A more technical reference ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regeneration_in_humans

The point stands, in one way or another, you aren't the man you were last week.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Unbeliever on March 08, 2019, 01:44:29 PM
I know about all that, I was just wondering why you chose 3 years as your time span for "all the molecules in your body." Cells aren't molecules, though they are made of molecules, like everything else.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 08, 2019, 06:47:57 PM
I know about all that, I was just wondering why you chose 3 years as your time span for "all the molecules in your body." Cells aren't molecules, though they are made of molecules, like everything else.

Raspberry for you .. I am a demi-god, not G-d.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Unbeliever on March 08, 2019, 07:04:41 PM
I like blueberries better, especially in scones! LOL
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 08, 2019, 07:07:29 PM
I like blueberries better, especially in scones! LOL

Scone-heads are from France!  Mass consumption.  They are Catholic.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Unbeliever on March 08, 2019, 07:13:28 PM
I like France, especially the way they kiss.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on March 09, 2019, 12:17:46 AM
The fear of nothingness is something I developed after my anxiety disorder kicked into overdrive a few years ago. The two compounded upon each other until I was finally forced to go see a psychiatrist. I now have to take medication that suppresses my ability to feel fear because of how bad I let the problem get.

Learn from my mistake, go get some professional help for this fear before it causes you to reach the breaking point. You don't want your mind to visit the dark places mine has been.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 09, 2019, 12:58:59 AM
I like France, especially the way they kiss.

I like lots of things, that are bad for me.  France, politically, is bad for me.  Sirloin however French, is good for me.

Isn't fear of nothingness ... fear of fear aka angst?  Yes, panic attacks are no fun.  If one has them, get medical help.

I have to think that the OP may be going thru drug withdrawal.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Draconic Aiur on March 09, 2019, 11:44:02 PM
Scone-heads are from France!  Mass consumption.  They are Catholic.

Bloody Daft aren't you?

French pastries maybe r delicious, but the British know what the gods really favour thou hear!

And as for some bloody catholic Left-Footer, hae the Gormless Git suck his own merchant banker 4 all I care!
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 10, 2019, 03:43:18 AM
And croissants are from Vienna Austria.  The only thing France has is cheese.

Scone rhymes with Cone ... it was the only way.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: SoldierofFortune on March 10, 2019, 10:16:57 AM
No, i dont fear death, except if it comes at an early age...
i firstly must catch the happiness and satisfaction that my life and chance can offer.
so far i have spent my potential and opportunities with reckless abandon.
but i must change my behaviors and attitıdes towards my life.
i will achieve and fulfil my goals in life so that i can be happy and satisfied...

it is an disillusement that we will be sended to the void...
like i said, i want my ego to live forever. this only can be realized by -as far as i understand- loading my memory along with my ego to the a hard-disk in which i can live...
but this wish, i think, wont be......
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 10, 2019, 10:33:03 AM
No, i dont fear death, except if it comes at an early age...
i firstly must catch the happiness and satisfaction that my life and chance can offer.
so far i have spent my potential and opportunities with reckless abandon.
but i must change my behaviors and attitıdes towards my life.
i will achieve and fulfil my goals in life so that i can be happy and satisfied...

it is an disillusement that we will be sended to the void...
like i said, i want my ego to live forever. this only can be realized by -as far as i understand- loading my memory along with my ego to the a hard-disk in which i can live...
but this wish, i think, wont be......

We are already immortalized that way, the atheistforum posts.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: SoldierofFortune on March 10, 2019, 10:49:56 AM
We are already immortalized that way, the atheistforum posts.

From that POV, every human that ever lived are living in their descandants genes...
but history begins with the discovery of writing...

what i am mentioning is that living my ego and memory which make me "me"...
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 10, 2019, 12:45:28 PM
From that POV, every human that ever lived are living in their descandants genes...
but history begins with the discovery of writing...

what i am mentioning is that living my ego and memory which make me "me"...

Buddha says, don't worry about that.  Individuality is ignorance.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: SoldierofFortune on March 10, 2019, 01:03:56 PM
Buddha says, don't worry about that.  Individuality is ignorance.

what do you mean by "individuality is ignorance"?
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Unbeliever on March 10, 2019, 05:22:08 PM
We are already immortalized that way, the atheistforum posts.
Well, to paraphrase Woody Allen, I don't want to live forever in atheistforums.com, I want to live forever in bed with a beautiful woman.


Quote from: Woody Allen
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 10, 2019, 08:25:46 PM
what do you mean by "individuality is ignorance"?

You are a leaf on a very large and very old tree ... and you think you are unattached.  When a leaf forms, where did it come from?  When a leaf falls, where does it go?  Do you die when you trim your fingernails?
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Cavebear on March 11, 2019, 02:54:05 AM
I'm wondering if religion isn't linked more to a fear of parental abandonment than it is to a fear of death?

I think there are elements of both in religion.  Death is a natural event, watch any nature show.  We live by death ourselves. Even if you are vegan, you kill plants.

As to parental abandonment, I really liked both my parents (both deceased now), and I am atheist.  It would be interesting to know how many theists really liked their parents.  And I don't mean respected or honored their parents, I mean LIKED! 
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 11, 2019, 07:38:06 AM
I think there are elements of both in religion.  Death is a natural event, watch any nature show.  We live by death ourselves. Even if you are vegan, you kill plants.

As to parental abandonment, I really liked both my parents (both deceased now), and I am atheist.  It would be interesting to know how many theists really liked their parents.  And I don't mean respected or honored their parents, I mean LIKED!

Virtue signaling again?  Well, can't speak for most theists.  You can't speak for most atheists.  Happy you liked your parents, but it is normal to fight them as part of separating from them, at least in your heart, if not moving out and joining a commune.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Cavebear on March 14, 2019, 01:02:33 PM
Virtue signaling again?  Well, can't speak for most theists.  You can't speak for most atheists.  Happy you liked your parents, but it is normal to fight them as part of separating from them, at least in your heart, if not moving out and joining a commune.

Which didn't answer my basic point...  Would you have liked your parents if they had been strangers living next door?  I would have.

I liked my Mom for her skills and I liked Dad for his.  And I would have liked Dad a LOT better if he wasn't related.

Here's a quick story.  I used to visit them for the Member/Guest golf tournament ( I was horrible),  But every year I got my game at least "functional" (about 90) and every year Dad would drive me nuts  "improving my game" until I couldn't hit a 5 iron to a 120 yard green! 

Well one year it rained and Dad was so distracted with his own problems he didn't bother me.  Best game of my life (and it was rated the 50th of the toughest courses).  I played MY game (swing hard and hope) and everything went beautifully.  One hole (up a rise), he got at me to say "play it safe with a 5 iron" and I said ""back off" and used my 2 iron.  It landed 3' from the hole. 

That was the 18th green (yes I sank the putt) and we one because of that.  It was the last round of golf I ever played with him.  Because even after that, he said I should have played it safe. 

Dad was a scratch golfer but he never won any tournaments.  Ya gotta dare to win sometimes.

Did I ever tell you about the chalk fake golf ball I gave him once?
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Unbeliever on March 14, 2019, 02:12:32 PM
My foster dad used to play with people like Lee Trevino, but I never took up the game. Never even played on a real course, but I've played some miniature golf and liked it because I was pretty good at it. It was more like shooting pool, at which I was also pretty good.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on March 14, 2019, 07:32:24 PM
"And I would have liked Dad a LOT better if he wasn't related." ... strange.  Don't feel the need to comment further.

Your question was a counterfactual, so impossible to take seriously.  If you have been born a gay woman, would you find Ellen hot?

i have known someone my age, who long before I met him, hated his parents and loved the parents of his girlfriend.  Because his parents were a secular mess, and his girlfriends parents were classic American Gothic.  He adopted their religion, and virtually moved in with them, as a teen, until he was allowed to marry their daughter (probably after graduating as an engineer from college).  My parents weren't American Gothic ... neither very good or very bad.  But the good lives on and the bad has faded.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Cavebear on March 25, 2019, 05:54:07 AM
The chalk ball...

I found it in a novelty shop.  It felt just like a real golf ball.  I kept it aside and waited.  One day, Dad FINALLY hit a ball off into the woods and he asked me to toss him a "provisional ball".  I tossed him the chalk ball I had kept waiting for this time.  He was too annoyed to examine it.  He hit the ball and of course it turned into a cloud of dust when he hit it!

He stood there for a moment completely confused.  His golfing partners weren't sure what happened either, but one looked over at me and saw the grin on my face and they all cracked up. 

Dad was slow to realize what I had done.  LOL!

Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: hobby420 on April 13, 2019, 11:07:44 AM
For me it comes down to a simple equation when thinking about death.....
 (Regret after death) = (Anticipation prior to birth)

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Mike Cl on April 13, 2019, 11:22:20 AM
For me it comes down to a simple equation when thinking about death.....
 (Regret after death) = (Anticipation prior to birth)

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Not sure what you mean.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on April 13, 2019, 12:35:09 PM
For me it comes down to a simple equation when thinking about death.....
 (Regret after death) = (Anticipation prior to birth)

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In EQ (not IQ) reality is framed by emotions, not by ideas.  The past is regret and pride.  The future is fear and hope.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Unbeliever on April 13, 2019, 01:39:27 PM
The past is regret and pride.  The future is fear and hope.

No, both the future and the past are oblivion. It's our default state, but we've coalesced into "us" for a while before we fold back to the default state.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on April 13, 2019, 02:30:04 PM
No, both the future and the past are oblivion. It's our default state, but we've coalesced into "us" for a while before we fold back to the default state.

If you want to parade your guilt ... "de-fault" ... that is your choice.

Only optimists and Buddhists hope for oblivion.  Alternatively you could achieve that in this life with a concussion resulting in amnesia.  Your self would be gone but your body would continue with someone else in charge.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: hobby420 on April 13, 2019, 05:41:27 PM
Not sure what you mean.

This was in response to the author of this topic who is not afraid of going to hell but afraid of going to "nowhere".  A lot of us who were raised in a Christian family and went through the attempts of indoctrination or are recovering from being indoctrinated at one time, struggle with the idea of death.  All that we experience requires consciousness so, to experience nowhere or nothingness, one would have to be conscious.  The hangover from a religious upbringing is that we will still have awareness (consciousness) after death, be it heaven or hell.  Although I never really fully bought into the BS I was force-fed in my youth, some concepts such as there being something after death does seem to get embedded. 

Like most atheists, I like to rely on logic, reason and proof to guide my beliefs but it took some time for me shake the notion of something after death.  I went back to the source of this irrational notion... religion.  It has been well proven that Hell was a contrived concept put in place by religion as a "stick" because the "carrot" wasn't working.  If you ever believed the bible was true, you need to go back to the unbastardized original texts which states the lake of fire is created for demigods/demigoddesses but for us mortals. it was either eternal life in the celestial North Korea or nothing (death). 

So, putting mythology aside, we need to get back to logic, reason and proof.  As there is no proof of anything on either side of life, logic and reason would dictate that thoughts and feelings did not exist prior to life so they will not exist after life.  As conscious beings, we experience (thoughts and feelings) constantly and it is very difficult for us to get our heads around a state of zero experience as we have nothing experiential to base it on.  If we can get there, we can then truly enjoy the good fortune/luck of existing in the first place.  I am very happy to be in that place!  So my comment was to say there was no experience before life and there will be no experience after life so literally nothing to fear.

I know this was a little long winded but I hope is clears up my comment.

H420
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on April 13, 2019, 08:33:13 PM
in long winded strings, it is best to either "quote" what you are responding to, in full or in part, or say you are responding to the OP (aka first post).
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Mike Cl on April 13, 2019, 08:54:17 PM
This was in response to the author of this topic who is not afraid of going to hell but afraid of going to "nowhere".  A lot of us who were raised in a Christian family and went through the attempts of indoctrination or are recovering from being indoctrinated at one time, struggle with the idea of death.  All that we experience requires consciousness so, to experience nowhere or nothingness, one would have to be conscious.  The hangover from a religious upbringing is that we will still have awareness (consciousness) after death, be it heaven or hell.  Although I never really fully bought into the BS I was force-fed in my youth, some concepts such as there being something after death does seem to get embedded. 

Like most atheists, I like to rely on logic, reason and proof to guide my beliefs but it took some time for me shake the notion of something after death.  I went back to the source of this irrational notion... religion.  It has been well proven that Hell was a contrived concept put in place by religion as a "stick" because the "carrot" wasn't working.  If you ever believed the bible was true, you need to go back to the unbastardized original texts which states the lake of fire is created for demigods/demigoddesses but for us mortals. it was either eternal life in the celestial North Korea or nothing (death). 

So, putting mythology aside, we need to get back to logic, reason and proof.  As there is no proof of anything on either side of life, logic and reason would dictate that thoughts and feelings did not exist prior to life so they will not exist after life.  As conscious beings, we experience (thoughts and feelings) constantly and it is very difficult for us to get our heads around a state of zero experience as we have nothing experiential to base it on.  If we can get there, we can then truly enjoy the good fortune/luck of existing in the first place.  I am very happy to be in that place!  So my comment was to say there was no experience before life and there will be no experience after life so literally nothing to fear.

I know this was a little long winded but I hope is clears up my comment.

H420
Gotja--thanks.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Cavebear on April 14, 2019, 12:09:48 AM
If you want to parade your guilt ... "de-fault" ... that is your choice.

Only optimists and Buddhists hope for oblivion.  Alternatively you could achieve that in this life with a concussion resulting in amnesia.  Your self would be gone but your body would continue with someone else in charge.

IF there was a deity, do you really think that a simple coma resulting in eventual death would have an affect on the deity saving the soul of that person?
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on April 14, 2019, 05:39:25 AM
IF there was a deity, do you really think that a simple coma resulting in eventual death would have an affect on the deity saving the soul of that person?

No to both.  G-d is an ass, unfortunately.  Reality isn't Disneyland.  But I am not an optimist.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Cavebear on April 14, 2019, 07:19:25 AM
No to both.  G-d is an ass, unfortunately.  Reality isn't Disneyland.  But I am not an optimist.

But God IS an ass?  I've heard HE will get you for that.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on April 14, 2019, 11:47:36 AM
But God IS an ass?  I've heard HE will get you for that.

If G-d was that active, everyone would be toast.  But Zeus ain't real.  Just because a human projection of G-d is a fiction, doesn't mean that G-d is a fiction.  What you and I think of JFK is a fiction.  We never knew the man.  But that doesn't mean that JFK never existed.  JFK is dead because JFK can be, G-d isn't because G-d can't be.  An archetype is bigger than individual instantiations ... if archetypes are reasonable at all.  If here are no archetypes, then there are no sets, defined by some criteria of membership, there are only elements which belong to no set.  For me, G-d is humanistic aka it is an archetype of humanity.  Related to Abrahamic religion, but not the same as.  Animals have their own gods, as any Egyptian knows ;-)
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: aitm on April 14, 2019, 12:01:55 PM
Sorry to hear that Hijiri. A few years ago I would have just called you a pussy and said "get over it". But then I found myself at two am in the morning in a York Penn hotel having a panic attack and packing my bags to drive home because "i fucked everything up and can't finish the job"...I was halfway to Baltimore when my mind grabbed back, "what the hell is wrong with you"? I turned around. I had lost my job a couple months earlier, and while waiting for the new insurance to kick in ran out of meds and the doctor in Florida fucking disappeared and I could not get my Thyroid meds. Turns out abruptly quitting them- and lots of other drugs as well- can fuck up the brain a bit. So I learned the hard way that the brain is a bit of a fucking twit sometimes.

Hope all goes well for you.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Unbeliever on April 14, 2019, 05:52:07 PM
Your self would be gone but your body would continue with someone else in charge.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZtoUfA209c


There's no one "in charge" in my head now, there's a legion of Indians but no chiefs.

Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on April 14, 2019, 07:52:20 PM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZtoUfA209c


There's no one "in charge" in my head now, there's a legion of Indians but no chiefs.

Jesus has a cure for that, if you don't care what happens to a herd of pigs ;-)
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Cavebear on April 18, 2019, 10:02:02 AM
If G-d was that active, everyone would be toast.  But Zeus ain't real.  Just because a human projection of G-d is a fiction, doesn't mean that G-d is a fiction.  What you and I think of JFK is a fiction.  We never knew the man.  But that doesn't mean that JFK never existed.  JFK is dead because JFK can be, G-d isn't because G-d can't be.  An archetype is bigger than individual instantiations ... if archetypes are reasonable at all.  If here are no archetypes, then there are no sets, defined by some criteria of membership, there are only elements which belong to no set.  For me, G-d is humanistic aka it is an archetype of humanity.  Related to Abrahamic religion, but not the same as.  Animals have their own gods, as any Egyptian knows ;-)

I think I understand you saying that God is an invention of humans.  On that I will agree completely.  Though, since I am agreeing with you, you will have to disagree.  I can hardly wait...

But as far as animals having "gods", I will disagree.  I am A VAGUELY KNOWABLE GOD to my cats (food shelter litterboxes, etc).  But beyond that I am astonishingly godlike to the ants that sometimes enter the house.  My whim and SPLAT!.  And I save earthworms on the driveway after it dries past a rain and they don't know why *I* (THE SAVIOUR FROM ABOVE) save some and not others and can they even CONCEIVE of MY existence beyond their crawly terms?

That's not even close what a deity would be like but my best understanding....
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Baruch on April 18, 2019, 11:10:50 AM
Many levels of levity.  Cats are their own gods of course ;-)

You underestimate the ability of humans to create deities.  Anthropomorphized ideas, that are vast memes that take on a life of their own.  Their power is in their fiction, it isn't their weakness.  We be demi-gods.
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Cavebear on April 18, 2019, 12:14:00 PM
Many levels of levity.  Cats are their own gods of course ;-)

You underestimate the ability of humans to create deities.  Anthropomorphized ideas, that are vast memes that take on a life of their own.  Their power is in their fiction, it isn't their weakness.  We be demi-gods.

"Dogs have Masters; Cats have Staff..."

And We Be Humans.  I read a short story once (Asimov, Sturgeon, Clarke, can't recall - terrible with names) where an imprisoned Being finally escaped by pure energy and landed on a planet only to discover (to HIS horror) that it was the origin planet.  HE tried to flee but was caught..  HIS last words were "But I am GOD".  And the prisoner said "But I am MAN".  Or something like that.

I LOVED that one...
Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: hobby420 on April 18, 2019, 01:49:56 PM


"Dogs have Masters; Cats have Staff...


If cats could talk, they wouldn't!

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Title: Re: i do not afraid of going to the hell,
Post by: Cavebear on April 18, 2019, 04:57:13 PM

If cats could talk, they wouldn't!

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Do you have any cats?  They talk to me a lot.  They have several meows.  "Food", "lap", "out", I recognize.  I probably don't want to know what most of the others mean...

1.  What is the big idiot doing NOW?
2.  CLEAN the litterbox, I see a speck in it.
3.  OMG, he brought out the PTU!"
4.  Is he going to toss and turn ALL night?
5.  If he doesn't open the deck door, I'm gonna PEE on it.
6.  Tuna AGAIN?"
7.  "May I have some more, please?"
8.  You wiggle that finger again, I'm gonna EAT it.
9.  I brought you this mouse.  The least you can do is EAT it..."
10.  "Who, ME?  I wasn't near that lamp".
11.  "You want me to wear WHAT?"
12.  "But its just getting dark outside!"

You get the drift...