Just leaders who do stupid things ...
Ethiopia, Zimbabwe, Venezuela
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UyOTgmDmek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAJrycrD6jg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK_CgcHrgNA
Leaders who are psychopathic/sociopathic rulers is a bad idea.
Need we even mention ancient history, like the killing fields of Cambodia?
Yes, the Left can justify all this evil shit. Because the human mind is infinitely flexible, and the Left is good at limbo.
Add South Africa to the list. The next one to go down the pan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nURta8-zu4E
At least there is Wakanda.
Depends. See demagoguery works against the best current memes. Back in the day, the demagogues would have used liberal democracy to cover their tactics ... as does post-colonialism or communism. The problem is demagogues more than the ideological flavor of the week.
There were people in Britain back in the day, who wanted the Indian mutineers to win. Also in America, people who idolized the natives. Passions can invert.
Quote from: pr126 on February 24, 2019, 01:24:30 PM
Add South Africa to the list. The next one to go down the pan.
At least there is Wakanda.
It seems right and proper that a colonial State should eventually end.
Death to America ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on February 26, 2019, 06:49:25 AM
Death to America ;-)
Gee, thanks a lot... Do you wish the Nazis had taken over Great Britain, or do you wish the Soviets had? Winston did love Big Brother at the end...
Quote from: Cavebear on February 26, 2019, 08:11:13 AM
Gee, thanks a lot... Do you wish the Nazis had taken over Great Britain, or do you wish the Soviets had? Winston did love Big Brother at the end...
Sarc. No, but liberals always betray their own countries, because of their pseudo-sophistication. That and lots of bongs. Most Americans today would be out helping Stalin during the Cold War. And many of them did until 1991, when their hopes faded.
Quote from: Baruch on February 26, 2019, 01:14:37 PM
Sarc. No, but liberals always betray their own countries, because of their pseudo-sophistication. That and lots of bongs. Most Americans today would be out helping Stalin during the Cold War. And many of them did until 1991, when their hopes faded.
I am frequently disturbed by people who can't tell the difference between reality and theory in political systems. OF COURSE Communism is the best system in theory, but it will never happen and is unenforcable (the failure of the commons) without a brutal dictatorship. And pure Democracy is anarchy and leads to witch trials and Robespierre so is equally impossible.
All workable political systems walk a line between them. Current evidence suggests that the best political systems for the majority of citizens is a sort of Social Democracy that balances rewards to the risk-takers AND protects the general citizenry from abject failure.
I have been successful in material terms. But I did not build the road in front of my street and I did not educate the people I deal with daily who repair my roof or took care of my aged parents when I could no longer do so very well. I did not train the people who provide me with clean water and I did not pay the education on the people who care for my cats or create this computer I am using to communicate with you.
That comes from a whole functional society where everyone gets a share of the advancements of the group. Anyone who thinks they "made it on their own" is just a damn fool idiot.
It's like saying you baked a loaf of bread "from scratch". Yeah, right. Maybe you even grew the wheat. Where did the wheat come from? How to you grow wheat? You start with a grass. Did you make wheat from grass?
You get my point?
Isaac Newton referred to "standing on the shoulders of Giants". Actually, we mostly stand on the shoulders of common everyday people. The ones who patiently grew grasses for the seeds and saw a few better ones. The ones who saw a pattern and said "why is this happening the same way every year. No genius suddenly made the first spearpoint; it was lots if little ideas that ended up with one.
Etc, etc, etc. So I really don't want to hear a bunch of crap about how only this system works or only that one does. The only systems that work are those that recognize all the little efforts here there and everywhere. And WE AREN'T ENCOURAGING THAT TODAY!
And we won't again until we drop this nonsense about "winner take all" or "everyone is perfectly equal". It is somewhere in the middle and I damn well want to see "the middle" start thriving again...
As Stan Lee used to say, 'nuff said".
Cavebear.
Yes, theory and practice are different. In theory ... screw theory, that is just BS. In practice, we all die sooner or later. The fact is ... humans are political. Politics is evil. Therefore humans are evil.
Quote from: Baruch on March 01, 2019, 06:09:30 PM
Yes, theory and practice are different. In theory ... screw theory, that is just BS. In practice, we all die sooner or later. The fact is ... humans are political. Politics is evil. Therefore humans are evil.
For you, cogently said...
You went from theory to practice to "All mammals have hair, whales have hair, therefore all mammals are whales" in a single post. Congratulations...
Well, not all evil is the same, just as some equal people are more equal than others, some evil people are more evil than others ... usually the same folks who think they are more equal ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on March 07, 2019, 06:29:19 PM
Well, not all evil is the same, just as some equal people are more equal than others, some evil people are more evil than others ... usually the same folks who think they are more equal ;-)
Indeed, not all evils are the same, but trying to equate equality with evil is a Trumpery-trick.
Quote from: Cavebear on March 14, 2019, 07:50:17 AM
Indeed, not all evils are the same, but trying to equate equality with evil is a Trumpery-trick.
If we are all equal, then we are all Hitler. And that would be evil indeed.
Equality is insane. Like saying we should all be sterile clone female worker bees in a hive, run by one of the recent D party candidates. I vote .. bury you in an ant hill of army ants, so you can salute your queen properly?
“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.†~ George Orwell
Both the Left, and Islam, erase history. That is why I take a negative view of the antics of the SJW in the US. I think it is wrong to try to erase Jefferson Davis or Robert E Lee ... we need to remember just how wrong they were. Democrats y'know.
Notice how most of the D-senators abstained from voting on the Green New Deal today. The only thing better than erasing history, is to avoid making it in the first place.
Quote from: Baruch on March 14, 2019, 07:26:26 PM
If we are all equal, then we are all Hitler. And that would be evil indeed.
Equality is insane. Like saying we should all be sterile clone female worker bees in a hive, run by one of the recent D party candidates. I vote .. bury you in an ant hill of army ants, so you can salute your queen properly?
There was nothing about Hitler that suggested "equality".
Quote from: Baruch on March 27, 2019, 06:42:21 PM
“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.†~ George Orwell
Both the Left, and Islam, erase history. That is why I take a negative view of the antics of the SJW in the US. I think it is wrong to try to erase Jefferson Davis or Robert E Lee ... we need to remember just how wrong they were. Democrats y'know.
Notice how most of the D-senators abstained from voting on the Green New Deal today. The only thing better than erasing history, is to avoid making it in the first place.
Like most anarchists/nihilists. you misunderstand Davis and Lee. They were traitors and should have been hanged in public. The Union forgiveness (such as it was) only allowed the defeated Confederates to create "The Lost Cause" mythology than plagues us to this day. If every Confederate officer had been hanged in every southern town as examples of the wrongfulness of slavery, African Americans would have been much better off a century ago, never mind today.
And I'll bet you try to say the war wasn't about slavery...
Quote from: Cavebear on April 18, 2019, 11:39:24 AM
Like most anarchists/nihilists. you misunderstand Davis and Lee. They were traitors and should have been hanged in public. The Union forgiveness (such as it was) only allowed the defeated Confederates to create "The Lost Cause" mythology than plagues us to this day. If every Confederate officer had been hanged in every southern town as examples of the wrongfulness of slavery, African Americans would have been much better off a century ago, never mind today.
And I'll bet you try to say the war wasn't about slavery...
Said like a true Yankee. The Bostonians should have been burned at the stake, while still in England, not exiled to bother the Indians.
And yes, originally New England wanted secession, in War of 1812, and afterward in blind hatred of any American who wasn't a New Englander. Puritan scum!
Quote from: Cavebear on April 18, 2019, 11:32:31 AM
There was nothing about Hitler that suggested "equality".
Missed the point entirely. I wasn't saying Hitler wanted equality, but that there are people who do, who don't draw the necessary conclusions.
Quote from: Baruch on April 18, 2019, 02:39:45 PM
Said like a true Yankee. The Bostonians should have been burned at the stake, while still in England, not exiled to bother the Indians.
And yes, originally New England wanted secession, in War of 1812, and afterward in blind hatred of any American who wasn't a New Englander. Puritan scum!
They didn't form an army. But yes, I come from a long line of Puritan scum... I'm just the one of the first to escape it. Dad beat me... to it.
Quote from: Baruch on April 18, 2019, 02:40:42 PM
Missed the point entirely. I wasn't saying Hitler wanted equality, but that there are people who do, who don't draw the necessary conclusions.
You said "If we are all equal, then we are all Hitler"... I know you said more, but Trump is a great teacher... LOL!
Quote from: Cavebear on April 18, 2019, 03:00:23 PM
They didn't form an army. But yes, I come from a long line of Puritan scum... I'm just the one of the first to escape it. Dad beat me... to it.
You can never leave home. It continues on, inside of you. So you are a branch off of that tree, but still connected.
And in 1775 they formed an army. Not counting the prior colonial vs Indian wars.
Are you saying that you diss Southern walk the walk vs Northern talk the talk?
Quote from: Baruch on April 18, 2019, 03:04:36 PM
You can never leave home. It continues on, inside of you. So you are a branch off of that tree, but still connected.
And in 1775 they formed an army. Not counting the prior colonial vs Indian wars.
Are you saying that you diss Southern walk the walk vs Northern talk the talk?
Yes, actually. Talking and griping (New England) is all fine politics, but the Confederacy walked the walk and didn't get the accustomed punishment for losing. Symbolic hangings would have been appropriate. Nathan Bedford Forrest would have been my first choice, followed by Jefferson Davis and then Massa Lee.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 18, 2019, 03:12:56 PM
Yes, actually. Talking and griping (New England) is all fine politics, but the Confederacy walked the walk and didn't get the accustomed punishment for losing. Symbolic hangings would have been appropriate. Nathan Bedford Forrest would have been my first choice, followed by Jefferson Davis and then Massa Lee.
You mean like King George III should have punished New England? Cuts both ways. Traitors ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on April 18, 2019, 03:17:37 PM
You mean like King George III should have punished New England? Cuts both ways. Traitors ;-)
Poor old King George III, mad as a hatter by then (and maybe actually from the hats). Abducted American sailors of any given descent as "Once British, Always British". Kings think like that. Set a stone building on fire (I'm still trying to figure out how that worked) here.
Anyway, the New England merchants realized their business was better without secceeding. And it was actually George Prince of Wales who was Regent then.
Did you fail History in school?
Quote from: Cavebear on April 18, 2019, 03:34:28 PM
Poor old King George III, mad as a hatter by then (and maybe actually from the hats). Abducted American sailors of any given descent as "Once British, Always British". Kings think like that. Set a stone building on fire (I'm still trying to figure out how that worked) here.
Anyway, the New England merchants realized their business was better without secceeding. And it was actually George Prince of Wales who was Regent then.
Did you fail History in school?
I passed, but it was just propaganda. Schools only indoctrinate. And it was mostly successful. I am patriotic, but in my own way.
Throwing out additional detail is a squid tactic. And no, people didn't have SSN or passport back then. And many British deserters jumped ship for American sails.
Quote from: Baruch on April 18, 2019, 03:41:58 PM
I passed, but it was just propaganda. Schools only indoctrinate. And it was mostly successful. I am patriotic, but in my own way.
Throwing out additional detail is a squid tactic. And no, people didn't have SSN or passport back then. And many British deserters jumped ship for American sails.
I love it when people declare facts they don't like "propaganda". Your a real Trumpian, you know. Don't like the facts? "Fake News". LOL!
Some Brits went to the US ships (So they wouldn't basically get beaten to death), so all US sailors were abductable? You crack me up sometimes.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 18, 2019, 03:58:14 PM
I love it when people declare facts they don't like "propaganda". Your a real Trumpian, you know. Don't like the facts? "Fake News". LOL!
Some Brits went to the US ships (So they wouldn't basically get beaten to death), so all US sailors were abductable? You crack me up sometimes.
It is propaganda all the way down. That Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown, is a fact. What it meant is perception/aka spin doctoring.
You simply defend the conventional US Federal propaganda machine. Nothing bad with that, but dishonest if you don't say that up front. Next you will be telling me that George Washington really did chop down that cherry tree ;-) Good story, but like most such, not factual.