So I have been making a conscious effort, which has become more and more an unconscious one, to not visit the forum anymore due to it being much more a source of toxicity in my life than somewhere where I actually learn anything or feel like part of a community like when I first joined, but I just came across this article and wanted to share it here because I feel like there are some really important points made in it that might help certain posters understand why others view the world differently than they do.
I want to clarify that neither I or, I would assume, the author think or are saying this is a problem that effects only millennial... just that the consequences of these problems effect our generation at a much larger scale. The generation younger than mine will most likely suffer far worse, and the generations above mine suffer from these issues as well.
Also, it is from Buzzfeed, which even for me gives me hesitancy... but it is actually a well-written article and, as far as I can tell, doesn't have either a left-or-right slant... it is addressing problems everyone faces, regardless of which side of the isle you are on and doesn't really place the blame on either side nor says that one side has all the answers to fix it. At most there are some anti-capitalist leanings in it... but the article itself also says that is largely in reaction to unrestrained capitalism failing our generation rather than anti-capitalist ideology.
I was going through the whole thing and posting sections I liked, but I realised the thread was becoming painfully long already, and I was only half-way through the article. It focuses on everything from student debt to the 2008 finnancial crisis to how social media effects everyone to the fact that the "solutions" to burnout are a $11 billion industry that is more concerned with sedating than fixing...
It's a fairly lengthy article, and if that turns people off I completely understand. But it is also an article that is attempting to address an extremely complicated issue that covers multiple fields and problems that have been developing for decades now, so to try and sum it up in just a few paragraphs would have been pointless as well. I certainly hope people read it (hence the reason I am sharing it), but I understand if no one does as well.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/annehelenpetersen/millennials-burnout-generation-debt-work?utm_source=dynamic&utm_campaign=bffbbuzzfeedreader&ref=bffbbuzzfeedreader (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/annehelenpetersen/millennials-burnout-generation-debt-work?utm_source=dynamic&utm_campaign=bffbbuzzfeedreader&ref=bffbbuzzfeedreader)
I will just leave the closing paragraphs here though...
QuoteIn their writing on homelessness, social psychologist Devon Price has said that “laziness,†at least in the way most of us generally conceive of it, simply does not exist. “If a person’s behavior doesn’t make sense to you,†they write, “it is because you are missing a part of their context. It’s that simple.†My behavior didn’t make sense to me because I was missing part of my context: burnout. I was too ashamed to admit I was experiencing it. I fancied myself too strong to succumb to it. I had narrowed my definition of burnout to exclude my own behaviors and symptoms. But I was wrong.
I think I have some of the answers to the specific questions that made me start writing this essay. Yours are probably somewhat or substantially different. I don’t have a plan of action, other than to be more honest with myself about what I am and am not doing and why, and to try to disentangle myself from the idea that everything good is bad and everything bad is good. This isn’t a task to complete or a line on a to-do list, or even a New Year’s resolution. It’s a way of thinking about life, and what joy and meaning we can derive not just from optimizing it, but living it. Which is another way of saying: It’s life’s actual work.
This is unfair, as are most stereotypes.
https://youtu.be/hLpE1Pa8vvI (https://youtu.be/hLpE1Pa8vvI)
However there is a reason stereotypes exist.
I'm a Baby-Boomer. I won't to pretend that I understand your generation's specific experiences, social world, and angst. I don't live with devices as you do. I was 35 when I got my first slow dial-up computer connection.
But I do know one thing. You are going to live a life very different from mine. You may go into space. I never will (though I grew up dreaming of it). My grandfather once mentioned to me that he lived before the first airplane flight and lived to see us land on the moon. And he wished he knew what I would see in my life.
Well, I'm still waiting for my flying car, but computers are better.
I wish you the best.
Good idea not to be plugged into electronics 24x7, but with smart phone, how can you avoid it? Put the smart phone down, put in drawer, leave it at home.
Good article; I could feel the anxiety radiating off the page. I know there is the stereotype of Millennials being lazy but from my perspective a lot of Millennials like the author are almost overly ambitious. When I was in high school most of my peers had no plans to attend college and I can't remember anyone in high school who planned on getting a master's degree or a Ph.D. Now people feel pressured to get an education they may not want and cannot afford just for the hope of making ends meet.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on January 06, 2019, 04:04:47 AM
Good article; I could feel the anxiety radiating off the page. I know there is the stereotype of Millennials being lazy but from my perspective a lot of Millennials like the author are almost overly ambitious. When I was in high school most of my peers had no plans to attend college and I can't remember anyone in high school who planned on getting a master's degree or a Ph.D. Now people feel pressured to get an education they may not want and cannot afford just for the hope of making ends meet.
Tiger moms. But then way back when, my mother wanted me to be a brain surgeon, like Dr Strange ;-) Sometimes the dad drives this crazy ambition.
With the upper class though, going to all the right schools (like Trump), then you get it handed to you.
My folks were Greatest Generation types and they pushed me to go to college. "Work with your mind, not with your back" was one of my dad's mantras. My wife's parents, same generation, told her "why does a woman need college?" They were products of their times and fortunately she paid them no mind.
Still, in the 70's and 80's, before the republicunts established corporate greed as a sine qua non of 'Murrican life it did work for a middle-class lifestyle. Today it has become a cruel joke and a pathway towards crushing debt and shittier jobs.
I thought about this roughly in this way. Older generations had something called the depression of 30s. You know, it could move up and down, but around 30, life starts to take a toll. Or a middle age crisis. According to my observation, new generations start to live those kind of depressions from teen years to early 20s years.
Well, it is very different to live something like that at such a young age before reaching any stability and accumulation of experience in your life AND in 30s-40s. So when people easily talk about how adolescent behaviour lasts past 30s, they tend to overlook that.
These kids get old before growing up, of course they burn out.
Quote from: Baruch on January 06, 2019, 04:08:16 AM
Tiger moms. But then way back when, my mother wanted me to be a brain surgeon, like Dr Strange ;-) Sometimes the dad drives this crazy ambition.
Yes, B. I used to see this when I was coaching Little League. Parents living vicariously through their kids. When the kid was 12 and had an early growth spurt so that he dominated the other players the fathers would ask me if I thought they should get a professional coach for their kid to help him make it to the big leagues!
I'd tell them to let him get into high school first and see how he did on the big field. Usually, and I did follow the kids who came through our program, when they hit high school the kids who were the stars were never on the team and kids who were nothing special were the ones who lit it up in high school. But try telling that to a father who has visions of his kid signing a $200 million contract with the pros! Its why so many young kids end up having Tommy John surgery when they are 13.
But I submit to you that just as bad as the "tiger" types, are the "helicopter parents" who hover over their kids and never let them learn anything the hard way. I think we are raising a generation of neurotics.
Quote from: Minimalist on January 07, 2019, 11:12:56 AMI think we are raising a generation of neurotics.
When I hear people complain about younger generations' behavior I rarely hear them take any responsibility for their role in that outcome.
Oh I definitely blame the parents. WTF do the kids know?
Try some of these on for size.
https://www.womansday.com/life/a56299/helicopter-parenting-stories/
Well I will jump on the ole wagon of social media being a fault for raising a generation or 2 or more to neurosis. I cannot imagine the stress that young children must go through trying to be friends or cool in todays social media when jealousy is so fuckin easy to administer via shame and ridicule against young minds. The suicide rate is going out the window, kids are doing all kinds of stupid shit to fit in. And....this is not localized. It is not being picked on by a couple guys in your gym class, christ they can recruit several hundred from across the world to make another person miserable.
Now before you say, sure kids....BS, this is high and mighty all over. Damn it can bring down a reputation in a matter of days. The whole thing is mind-boggling that people, even those who understand the consequences still get involved in multiple layers of SM knowing how quickly that shit can blow up.
Now not being actually part of "this" generation perhaps I am way off base. I will let you "splain" it to me.
Over the past couple of years it has become more common for adolescents to be brought to the emergency room because their parents took away their devices and the kid either hurt themselves, tore up the house or assaulted their parent. This may seem outrageous but kids don't have the same relationship to devices that many adults do, some use games and social media compulsively, and they haven't learned coping skills from their parents because their parents didn't grow up online and don't know what to do.
Children raising children aka human history ;-)
Laziness does not exist. This must be a joke.
As it is said, Human is a lazy animal...
Quote from: aitm on January 07, 2019, 05:37:41 PM
Well I will jump on the ole wagon of social media being a fault for raising a generation or 2 or more to neurosis. I cannot imagine the stress that young children must go through trying to be friends or cool in todays social media when jealousy is so fuckin easy to administer via shame and ridicule against young minds. The suicide rate is going out the window, kids are doing all kinds of stupid shit to fit in. And....this is not localized. It is not being picked on by a couple guys in your gym class, christ they can recruit several hundred from across the world to make another person miserable.
Now before you say, sure kids....BS, this is high and mighty all over. Damn it can bring down a reputation in a matter of days. The whole thing is mind-boggling that people, even those who understand the consequences still get involved in multiple layers of SM knowing how quickly that shit can blow up.
Now not being actually part of "this" generation perhaps I am way off base. I will let you "splain" it to me.
It's not BS. Actually I guess a lot of people agree with you. So do I.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on January 07, 2019, 01:22:20 PM
When I hear people complain about younger generations' behavior I rarely hear them take any responsibility for their role in that outcome.
Childness does offer some neutral viewpoints. I grew up free in the 50/60s. Went anywhere I wanted. Miles away by bike and my parents never worried. As I grew older, I noticed that parents were less sure about letting their kids run free. Now they are afraid to let them out of sight. I'm not sure that kids today are in more dangerous but maybe the news reports suggest it and they react.
Quote from: Cavebear on January 08, 2019, 11:58:58 PM
Childness does offer some neutral viewpoints. I grew up free in the 50/60s. Went anywhere I wanted. Miles away by bike and my parents never worried. As I grew older, I noticed that parents were less sure about letting their kids run free. Now they are afraid to let them out of sight. I'm not sure that kids today are in more dangerous but maybe the news reports suggest it and they react.
Media sells bad news. Parents react to that. That is why there are no hitchhikers anymore. Damn serial killers ruined it for everyone else. We would be better off without any media, even newspapers.