https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46550264
QuoteBrexit: War breaks out in Conservative Party
Funny. Our conservatards seem to be having a contest to see who can be the silliest fuck, too.
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/11949972/so-it-begins-the-great-shitstorm-of-our-time.jpg)
Not sure what happened here. Can someone delete the duplicate?
Quote from: Minimalist on December 13, 2018, 07:22:57 PM
Not sure what happened here. Can someone delete the duplicate?
Sorry, are you the original or the clone? It matters if we delete you ;-)
With any luck, the collapse of the industrial food chain will eliminate half the useless eaters.
The logical response to the dumb Brit decision to leave the EU would be to re-vote to stay in. But no one ever wants to admit they were wrong, so the painful separation has to play out. My sympathy to May...
Quote from: Cavebear on December 18, 2018, 05:14:20 AM
The logical response to the dumb Brit decision to leave the EU would be to re-vote to stay in. But no one ever wants to admit they were wrong, so the painful separation has to play out. My sympathy to May...
Of course You are never wrong.
Giving up sovereingty to be ruled by faceless unaccountable burocrats from far away is not everyone’s dream.
Most of the EU countries would exit if they could.
The EU or as in the 1970s was called the EEC, set up as a trading orgnisation which then became the EU including North African “partnersâ€.
When it was from the start as a takeover of Europe by France and Germany.
The people were not told about this.
But what is it to you, if the dumb Brits want to leave the EU?
Quote from: pr126 on December 18, 2018, 06:01:24 AM
Of course You are never wrong.
Giving up sovereingty to be ruled by faceless unaccountable burocrats from far away is not everyone’s dream.
Most of the EU countries would exit if they could.
The EU or as in the 1970s was called the EEC, set up as a trading orgnisation which then became the EU including North African “partnersâ€.
When it was from the start as a takeover of Europe by France and Germany.
The people were not told about this.
But what is it to you, if the dumb Brits want to leave the EU?
If most of the EU members wanted to leave, they could.
But it matters to me because I actually trust Britain to make sensible decisions and help other European nations to make sensible decisions. And Britain is the US anchor to "The Rest Of The World". So, you see, we actually care about you folks...
Without Britain, the US is mostly just a Really Big Island. We don't speak French, we don't speak German, we speak our version of "English". Got it?
Who ELSE are we going to talk to? China? Russia?
You are simply wrong, for being stuck in Foreign Affairs or Foreign Policy magazine articles extolling how brilliant neo-Lib ideology is. Fighting the last war is a known tendency of the elderly.
Quote from: pr126 on December 18, 2018, 06:01:24 AM
Of course You are never wrong.
Giving up sovereingty to be ruled by faceless unaccountable burocrats from far away is not everyone’s dream.
Most of the EU countries would exit if they could.
The EU or as in the 1970s was called the EEC, set up as a trading orgnisation which then became the EU including North African “partnersâ€.
When it was from the start as a takeover of Europe by France and Germany.
The people were not told about this.
But what is it to you, if the dumb Brits want to leave the EU?
Leaving THE EU would be an even more idiotic call for belgium than it would be to split up Flanders from THE walloons. THE borders and trade taxes alone would cripple te port of antwerp, for example. Holland would take THE cake.
Brittain leaving will also cause problems for my country and THE EU. And i don't think it's a smart call. Nor is what is happening now, i think, what the brittish people voted for back at THE referendum. But Hey, not my country. And i don't think any country Should be forced to stay. No matter how bad a call it would be to leave.
Thing is though, i don't see things working out Well. And i think if they go through and they go bad; if we look back in ten years time, those who worked towards Brexit today, won't see that mess as a result of Brexit, but in spite of Brexit.
Then again, i'm no economist. Maybe i'll be denying brittish success in ten years. I doubt it, but maybe.
THE gears are Turning. We'll see in a decade.
There are a lot of stupid things people do, and nations. Worst case, if the electricity goes out, Dutch vs French language will be the least of your problems. I heard that the Yellow Jackets have migrated to additional honey traps, particularly anywhere French is spoken.
Hold on to your butts, Britain.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46617152
QuoteBrexit: EU reveals no-deal plans
QuoteThe European Commission says it has started to implement its preparations for a no-deal Brexit - in case the UK crashes out of the EU without a plan.
It has announced temporary measures to try to reduce the impact, but says it cannot counter all the problems it expects.
As PM Theresa May's proposed exit plan flounders in Parliament, both sides are preparing for the worst-case situation.
(https://media.tenor.com/images/eb9a21c5f55f0aea16b3ab08a5eaa15a/tenor.gif)
The actual threat from France is fellatio, not sodomy.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on December 18, 2018, 07:28:45 PM
Nor is what is happening now, i think, what the brittish people voted for back at THE referendum.
Well, this is exactly the point. The real Brexit bears no resemblance to the Brexit that Leave said it would -- take your choice as to whether you think the Leave campaign was overoptimistic or genuinely dishonest, either way what's happening now is not the Brexit that UK voters were told would happen.
I think another referendum on the *real* Brexit is necessary. Especially now that the hundreds of millions of pounds they said would go to the NHS is known to be a lie.
I think the British were sold a bill of goods and they forgot the adage "buyer beware" - and now they're stuck with what they bought.
Quote from: trdsf on December 19, 2018, 02:13:22 PM
Well, this is exactly the point. The real Brexit bears no resemblance to the Brexit that Leave said it would -- take your choice as to whether you think the Leave campaign was overoptimistic or genuinely dishonest, either way what's happening now is not the Brexit that UK voters were told would happen.
I think another referendum on the *real* Brexit is necessary. Especially now that the hundreds of millions of pounds they said would go to the NHS is known to be a lie.
I saw someone post something like this:
Person a: "anybody want a sandwich? How 'bout you? Should we get you a sandwich? Maybe a Nice BLT? We might be able to get Some maredsous, honey and nuts going on. Or maybe even chicken barbecue. You want one?"
Person b: "yeah sure."
Person a: "alright, i'll get you Some dogturds between two slices of Bread."
Person b: "wait, i don't..."
Person a: "nah mate, you wanted a sandwich, do now you have to get one!"
All that said though. As optimistic as te majority might have been back in THE day of THE referendum, and no matter what politicians might've promised to convince them regarding immigration or whatnot; today's problems regarding borders, trade and thus economics, were pretty predictable. Honestly, and this might be skewed from my pro-EU attitude and ongoing membership: it seems like THE brittish were expecting to be able to leave THE EU while still enjoying all THE benefits a EU-membership entails. Like they thought they were so important THE EU would bend over backwards and change it'd rules just to make everything easier for THE brittish. Brexit will be a heavy blow, but they aren't THE center of THE universe.
Just how do you expect to make a better deal in trade with your most important economics partners when you decide to throw away all accords that make dealing cheaper? And even if you are able o make an as good a deal, then what's THE point? After all this time, i guess, i still don't know exactly what it was that they hoped to get out of this, that they didn't have or couldn't do before. Again, my pointed view as a european again.
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 19, 2018, 02:18:31 PM
I think the British were sold a bill of goods and they forgot the adage "buyer beware" - and now they're stuck with what they bought.
All campaigns are lies. All movements end in tears.
Are you on suicide watch?
Pretty much, Mr. O, pretty much. My analogy was that the promise of Brexit during the campaign was that they'd been promised a free Mercedes and $10,000 cash, and when it came down to the reality of it they were told they'd have to pay $25,000 for a used Yugo. Since Brexit isn't going to be what was promised, it'd be irresponsible and unethical to not allow a second referendum.
What I still don't understand is why May is so gung-ho for it, considering a) she was a Remainer herself, b) the 2016 referendum was not binding but only advisory, and c) it was a narrow victory, not a clear mandate. Is she genuinely trying to destroy the Conservative Party and/or the country? Or is she hoping to derail Brexit by narrowing the choices to either a shitty deal or no deal at all?
Quote from: Minimalist on December 19, 2018, 07:45:31 PM
Are you on suicide watch?
Woke to the reality of humanity ;-( It is humanity that is on suicide watch. 1914, 1939 on it goes.
trdsf - typical crystal balls. When you have a tea with the PM, get back to us.
Quote from: trdsf on December 19, 2018, 08:14:33 PM
Pretty much, Mr. O, pretty much. My analogy was that the promise of Brexit during the campaign was that they'd been promised a free Mercedes and $10,000 cash, and when it came down to the reality of it they were told they'd have to pay $25,000 for a used Yugo. Since Brexit isn't going to be what was promised, it'd be irresponsible and unethical to not allow a second referendum.
What I still don't understand is why May is so gung-ho for it, considering a) she was a Remainer herself, b) the 2016 referendum was not binding but only advisory, and c) it was a narrow victory, not a clear mandate. Is she genuinely trying to destroy the Conservative Party and/or the country? Or is she hoping to derail Brexit by narrowing the choices to either a shitty deal or no deal at all?
Well, to be fair. While i'm not a big May fan in particular, i don't think anyone could have made an any better deal in her situation. THE EU simply can't lend a favorable tax-rate to THE UK alone under WTO rules. That'd be illegal. So if that's non-negotionable, and pretty much THE foundation for THE EU to begin with, what's there left to make a deal on?
Quote from: Baruch on December 19, 2018, 11:44:59 PM
Woke to the reality of humanity ;-( It is humanity that is on suicide watch. 1914, 1939 on it goes.
trdsf - typical crystal balls. When you have a tea with the PM, get back to us.
I thought I was a misanthrope but I feel like Mary Fucking Poppins next to you. Have a drink or something.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CjLbARShUFE
May was just the worst person for this. And not because she's a remainer, but cause she's a Secretary, she doesn't live on the same level as the people voting for or against.
You American guys here who thinks a second referendum leading to a turn around in favour of remain (I seem to remember discussing about American posters having misinformed opinions on British politics the same as some of yah said a brit can have no idea of American politics) is a good thing, I find it highly suspect a lot of you can call yourselves democrats, when you don't believe in democracy, as in the people getting what they vote for.
Quote from: Munch on December 20, 2018, 05:06:52 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CjLbARShUFE
May was just the worst person for this. And not because she's a remainer, but cause she's a Secretary, she doesn't live on the same level as the people voting for or against.
You American guys here who thinks a second referendum leading to a turn around in favour of remain (I seem to remember discussing about American posters having misinformed opinions on British politics the same as some of yah said a brit can have no idea of American politics) is a good thing, I find it highly suspect a lot of you can call yourselves democrats, when you don't believe in democracy, as in the people getting what they vote for.
But is it what they voted for? Didn't Daniel Hannan and others like Paterson assure that brexit wouldn't mean leaving the single market?
Now that it seems inevitable to do one without the other, is one still what you voted for?
Different and perhaps silly example, but still relevant, I think:
If I ask you to vote on stopping to pay taxes to pay for Brittish pensions, without any risk at all towards Brittish pensions still existing in the capacity they do today, and you vote yes, will you still have voted yes for me when I move to scrap all pensions and thus all payments you have to make towards them?
Quote from: Minimalist on December 20, 2018, 01:06:35 AM
I thought I was a misanthrope but I feel like Mary Fucking Poppins next to you. Have a drink or something.
You are enlightened (to me). You may now leave the monastery.
Munch & Mr Obvious ... obviously, hard Brexit is going to be very unpleasant. Sometimes you have to cut your arm off, and cauterize, to avoid total death.
There is nothing democratic about America, we are an inverted totalitarianism.
Americans always know what is best for the UK.
But you Brits please don't stick your nose into US politics.
Quote from: pr126 on December 20, 2018, 10:17:06 AM
Americans always know what is best for the UK.
But you Brits please don't stick your nose into US politics.
Yes, I do know what is best for you ... because I listen to you ... and have sympathy for you. And I understand your anxiety as the US, which you rely somewhat on, turns into the kingdom of Cthulhu.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on December 19, 2018, 04:58:48 PM
As optimistic as te majority might have been back in THE day of THE referendum, and no matter what politicians might've promised to convince them regarding immigration or whatnot; today's problems regarding borders, trade and thus economics, were pretty predictable. Honestly, and this might be skewed from my pro-EU attitude and ongoing membership: it seems like THE brittish were expecting to be able to leave THE EU while still enjoying all THE benefits a EU-membership entails. Like they thought they were so important THE EU would bend over backwards and change it'd rules just to make everything easier for THE brittish. Brexit will be a heavy blow, but they aren't THE center of THE universe.
Just how do you expect to make a better deal in trade with your most important economics partners when you decide to throw away all accords that make dealing cheaper? And even if you are able o make an as good a deal, then what's THE point? After all this time, i guess, i still don't know exactly what it was that they hoped to get out of this, that they didn't have or couldn't do before. Again, my pointed view as a european again.
You're appraisal makes sense to me, we don't get a lot of information on what Europeans are actually thinking, and your concerns take into account an array of aspects, both pro and con, to the problem, so I'm getting a view from both sides from a single observer, rather than an mindless ideologist. OK, you've got some biases sure, but you know this and treat this issue in a thoughtful manner.
Political deals seldom deliver what their proponents claim. We've been through that here in the US with "saving the Iraqi people," "getting rid of those weapons of mass destruction," and "our own healthcare solution." Political actions very often fail to deliver anywhere near what they promise, and often create new problems with their implementation. People lose sight of what's happened as they cheer for whatever their party's leaders have done, and similarly lament over what the other party's leaders have done.
But it's nice to know people there are thinking about it. The knee jerk referendum "mistake", if that's what it really was, is not surprising. We have seen some dumb things passed by referendum over here, as well as dumb things passed by politicians. Political systems around the world seem like huge internal messes to me, now more than ever before.
In the spirit of sharing video's that no-one here's going to actually sit down and watch
https://youtu.be/2sUlikDDUCc
I quite liked this one.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on December 20, 2018, 02:19:27 PM
In the spirit of sharing video's that no-one here's going to actually sit down and watch
https://youtu.be/2sUlikDDUCc
I quite liked this one.
you mean a guy who's made multiple videos with the heading 'brexit fallout'.
mmhmm.
the reporter raises some good points though. the eu wants all the cards. It whats its way of doing things like it does with Hungary, who had the balls to defy them.
And she keeps saying the uk didn't come up with any solution or alternative, in other words, it didn't come up with what the eu wanted to hear.
hey look I watched the video. Guess thats one up on the rest to afraid to have their social and political think-tank challenged. ^^
Quote from: Munch on December 20, 2018, 02:40:49 PM
you mean a guy who's made multiple videos with the heading 'brexit fallout'.
mmhmm.
the reporter raises some good points though. the eu wants all the cards. It whats its way of doing things like it does with Hungary, who had the balls to defy them.
And she keeps saying the uk didn't come up with any solution or alternative, in other words, it didn't come up with what the eu wanted to hear.
hey look I watched the video. Guess thats one up on the rest to afraid to have their social and political think-tank challenged. ^^
Never claimed it was impartial.
Though: You're not seriously insinuating your or pr's videos are impartial, are you Munch. But that's fine, you are allowed to be partial. But i dislike video's that don't allow people to finish their train or thought or where it is just one tangent by one person or has a commentator intercutting every other sentence of someone's video. On either Side of THE argument. I stopped watching that thunderfoot, THE young Turks, buzzfeed, teal deer crap years ago. At least this conversation was a real one between real people. And i think it showcased 'european' mindset and THE 'brittish' mindset quite wel.
To me, THE reporter seemed like a stumbling buffoon who had no idea how international agreements larger than THE EU and border-agreements work. To you, THE german lady probably seemed most unreasonable. But THE uk didn't really provide any solutions, not acceptable ones that would also be acceptable to THE market we must protect to protect ourselves.
Let's say for a second we accept making trade between ireland and north-ireland; we would have a financial and juridicial disaster on our hands. And so would you, by THE way.
So what solutions are there? Hard Brexit? Well, yes, we guess. You could do that. It would not be good for us. Nor for you as you would fall under WTO trade rules, without any deals in place. So it is suggested, not forced, to elongate THE time to find a solution that works out for everyone. And if you don't agree withthat; fine but than there are consequences to that too.
that's what bothers me THE most in all this, you know? From across THE water, i get THE distinctie impression THE british Side doesn't realize that, as they wanted and always could, THEy have THE freedom and capaciteit to choose. (You know, like THE sovereign nation they always were.) but that does mean that they are free from THE consequences of those choices.
Anyway, your nation has spent two years fighting amongst itself and has failed to present anything concrete regarding an actual deal that could be acceptable to your current 'biggest customer'. (And yes, THE main responsabilityfor presenting qomething concrete and acceptable lies with THE UK as you are THE ones insistent on leaving THE EU and THE single market,) two years for not making an acceptable deal with one single market and copying THE schedules which can't possibly be accepted by THE WTO nations as you are then no longer a 600 million people market. Two years to not close 'THE world's easist deal' and schedules that are set to be opposed by three nations already and probably more tofollow. Good luck on your deals with THE other 120odd markets.
Correct .. Germany not only wants to dominate W Europe, it wants control of the UN and everything else ... peacefully of course. That is how you "up channel" concerns that cross borders. With increasing integration between states, even domestic issues are international crises.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on December 20, 2018, 03:52:28 PM
Never claimed it was impartial.
Though: You're not seriously insinuating your or pr's videos are impartial, are you Munch. But that's fine, you are allowed to be partial. But i dislike video's that don't allow people to finish their train or thought or where it is just one tangent by one person or has a commentator intercutting every other sentence of someone's video. On either Side of THE argument. I stopped watching that thunderfoot, THE young Turks, buzzfeed, teal deer crap years ago. At least this conversation was a real one between real people. And i think it showcased 'european' mindset and THE 'brittish' mindset quite wel.
okay, thats fair, it was a debate between two people and its true computing forever is just his own bias opinions, much like buzzfeed and the young turks. I still have my own objection though on what she was saying being someone from the uk and having that stance, so I have well enough reason to look at whats being said with scrutiny.
QuoteTo me, THE reporter seemed like a stumbling buffoon who had no idea how international agreements larger than THE EU and border-agreements work. To you, THE german lady probably seemed most unreasonable. But THE uk didn't really provide any solutions, not acceptable ones that would also be acceptable to THE market we must protect to protect ourselves.
Let's say for a second we accept making trade between ireland and north-ireland; few would have a financial and juridicial disaster on our hands. And so would you, by THE way.
As I say, proposals have been put forward, you wouldn't expect leaders to break deals without trying to negotiate. However is the ones your trying to negotiate with just aren't prepared to break even what more can you do.
QuoteSo what solutions are there? Hard Brexit? Well, yes, we guess. You could do that. It would not be good for us. Nor for you as you would fall under WTO trade rules, without any deals in place. So it is suggested, not forced, to elongate THE time to find a solution that works out for everyone. And if you don't agree withthat; fine but than there are consequences to that too.
that's what bothers me THE most in all this, you know? From across THE water, i get THE distinctie impression THE british Side doesn't realize that, as they wanted and always could, THEy have THE freedom and capaciteit to choose. (You know, like THE sovereign nation they always were.) but that does mean that they are free from THE consequences of those choices.
Seems to me fearmongering used by eu collectivism. Thats the main issue and why many people voted for leave, because having a political body dictating their rules you have to conform to without any system of democratic election is borderline totalitarian. At least with america, your governance is mandated by democratically elected system of power. Having the EU breathing down everyones necks is one of the many reasons people wanted out, and why Hungary built a wall around its borders.
QuoteAnyway, your nation has spent two years fighting amongst itself and has failed to present anything concrete regarding an actual deal that could be acceptable to your current 'biggest customer'. (And yes, THE main responsabilityfor presenting qomething concrete and acceptable lies with THE UK as you are THE ones insistent on leaving THE EU and THE single market,) two years for not making an acceptable deal with one single market and copying THE schedules which can't possibly be accepted by THE WTO nations as you are then no longer a 600 million people market. Two years to not close 'THE world's easist deal' and schedules that are set to be opposed by three nations already and probably more tofollow. Good luck on your deals with THE other 120odd markets.
again, your siding on the eu's beliefs the uk wasn't trying to make said deals. Its just that the eu didn't like it or even meet halfway.
Quote from: Munch on December 20, 2018, 02:40:49 PM
hey look I watched the video. Guess thats one up on the rest to afraid to have their social and political think-tank challenged. ^^
I watched it. I just didn't comment. I don't care if Britain exits or not. I just wanted to understand it better. I maybe understand it a little better, but I had a hard time with the accents, and perhaps some critical things went right by me. I'm not sure why Britain needs to come up with a plan to satisfy the EU, and I'm not sure why the EU is asking for a plan. This sounds like it's not a real exit. There are still strings attached and it sounds like the EU wants some kind of concession. And I'm wondering if Britain wants to exit, but still hold on to some of the perks of EU membership. Is this a power struggle, just for the fun of the struggle?
I'm just trying to fill in blanks, which is my usual reaction when I can't make sense out of something. Is the Parliament holding back just to try and monkey wrench what ever the PM is trying to do? That's the way we do it in the US. Did the PM want to give away part of Britain's sovereignty to cut the cord? It seems like an exit simply cuts all the strings, and each goes it's own way, but it doesn't sound like that is what is happening.
In addition to this video, I watched another that was part of a bunch that shows related videos at the end. It sounds like an exit would hurt the British auto industry because of trade wars that would drive up costs through tariffs and transportation costs. But in trade wars when one industry is hurt, another usually benefits. I don't care what you guys do. I would hope you don't make the same mistakes the US does, and I'm sorry you are so internally divided. Rancor doesn't benefit factions of a nation.
Bait and Switch is a classic marketing ploy. The Brexiteers marketed one thing and delivered a large bag of shit.
Quote from: Minimalist on December 20, 2018, 07:09:41 PM
Bait and Switch is a classic marketing ploy. The Brexiteers marketed one thing and delivered a large bag of shit.
you think the remainers didn't do the same in their lead up?
Quote from: Munch on December 20, 2018, 07:11:26 PM
you think the remainers didn't do the same in their lead up?
Vote Leave broke the law (https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/journalist/electoral-commission-media-centre/party-and-election-finance-to-keep/vote-leave-fined-and-referred-to-the-police-for-breaking-electoral-law). I haven't even seen even an allegation of electoral misbehavior against Remain, much less an actual finding of lawbreaking.
The fact remains that the Brexit on offer is
not the Brexit that Vote Leave promised during the referendum. There never was any truth to the claim of Brexit saving £350m a week for the NHS; Vote Leave disowned that idea right after the referendum (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-vote-leave-wipes-nhs-350m-claim-and-rest-of-its-website-after-eu-referendum-a7105546.html); even Nigel Farage said making that claim was a mistake, but funny how he didn't say it until after the campaign was over (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-result-nigel-farage-nhs-pledge-disowns-350-million-pounds-a7099906.html).
The UK deserves a vote on the
real Brexit, not on the now-disowned promises.
Quote from: Munch on December 20, 2018, 05:06:52 AM
I find it highly suspect a lot of you can call yourselves democrats, when you don't believe in democracy, as in the people getting what they vote for.
That's exactly the point. They are
not getting what they voted for. The Vote Leave campaign both lied, and broke the law. If you're so sure Brexit is a good idea, why do you fear putting the deal up for ratification by the public?
That is anti-democratic. Go ahead and vote to leave again -- if you can sell Brexit without Vote Leave's dishonesty and lawbreaking, that is.
Quote from: Munch on December 20, 2018, 07:11:26 PM
you think the remainers didn't do the same in their lead up?
The remainers had a track record.
Quote from: Minimalist on December 20, 2018, 08:37:45 PM
The remainers had a track record.
They suck Merkel's cock.
Perhaps Britain should have been happy with that.
Quote from: Minimalist on December 19, 2018, 11:37:44 AM
Hold on to your butts, Britain.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46617152
(https://media.tenor.com/images/eb9a21c5f55f0aea16b3ab08a5eaa15a/tenor.gif)
It is possible that Britain will reverse the Brexit. I can only hope. A solid Europe might be the best prevention of future wars. And the best friends the US will have...
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on December 20, 2018, 03:52:28 PM
Never claimed it was impartial.
i dislike video's that don't allow people to finish their train or thought or where it is just one tangent by one person or has a commentator intercutting every other sentence of someone's video...
Yes, the anchor was just being rude, playing to British nationalism. Many commentators over here have built careers on that sort of thing. And many quasi TV news programs gain their popularity by showcasing conflict by having two people talking loudly at the same time.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on December 20, 2018, 03:52:28 PM
And i think it showcased 'european' mindset and THE 'brittish' mindset quite wel.
Well, yes and no. If the mindset is primarily, "We hate each other," then the video accomplished that, but I already knew that both nations have developed a high degree of animosity over the issue. But I was interested in the cause of the animosity, which flew right by when two different accents were outshouting each other. All I heard was noise, rather than dialog. That there is discord, I get. Why there is a problem, I still don't understand. I have the same problem with American television where the moderator is instructed not to enforce legitimate debate, but to allow chaotic discord to be the main theme of the program.
What I ended up with was an opinion that is actually quite irrelevant and doesn't provide me with useful information. I formed an opinion based on stage presence and decorum. That clearly makes me want to side with Germany, based strictly on that woman's representation of her country as thoughtful and fair minded, while the anchor was playing the role of the overbearing bully on behalf of his country.
If I am going to admit to partiality, I am predisposed to side with Britain, because I believe in national sovereignty, which is odd, because I don't know where that bias even comes from. Why should a country not have the power to solve it's own problems and conduct it's own affairs according to its own judgment? I dunno. Should we have allowed Hitler to conduct his own affairs? I guess it's conditional depending on the situation. But my knee jerk reaction is to support sovereignty until I have reason to believe a country doesn't deserve it.
Quote from: SGOS on December 21, 2018, 07:41:49 AM
Yes, the anchor was just being rude, playing to British nationalism. Many commentators over here have built careers on that sort of thing. And many quasi TV news programs gain their popularity by showcasing conflict by having two people talking loudly at the same time.
Well, yes and no. If the mindset is primarily, "We hate each other," then the video accomplished that, but I already knew that both nations have developed a high degree of animosity over the issue. But I was interested in the cause of the animosity, which flew right by when two different accents were outshouting each other. All I heard was noise, rather than dialog. That there is discord, I get. Why there is a problem, I still don't understand. I have the same problem with American television where the moderator is instructed not to enforce legitimate debate, but to allow chaotic discord to be the main theme of the program.
What I ended up with was an opinion that is actually quite irrelevant and doesn't provide me with useful information. I formed an opinion based on stage presence and decorum. That clearly makes me want to side with Germany, based strictly on that woman's representation of her country as thoughtful and fair minded, while the anchor was playing the role of the overbearing bully on behalf of his country.
If I am going to admit to partiality, I am predisposed to side with Britain, because I believe in national sovereignty, which is odd, because I don't know where that bias even comes from. Why should a country not have the power to solve it's own problems and conduct it's own affairs according to its own judgment? I dunno. Should we have allowed Hitler to conduct his own affairs? I guess it's conditional depending on the situation. But my knee jerk reaction is to support sovereignty until I have reason to believe a country doesn't deserve it.
What if you viewed EU nations like US States and allowed then time to meld? Sure you might not be Brit or French or Italian. But there was a time here when people thought of themselves as Virginian or Massachussetian. And it seems to have worked out well.
We went from "These United States" to "The United States". Really made a difference.
Quote from: SGOS on December 21, 2018, 07:41:49 AM
If I am going to admit to partiality, I am predisposed to side with Britain, because I believe in national sovereignty, which is odd, because I don't know where that bias even comes from. Why should a country not have the power to solve it's own problems and conduct it's own affairs according to its own judgment? I dunno. Should we have allowed Hitler to conduct his own affairs? I guess it's conditional depending on the situation. But my knee jerk reaction is to support sovereignty until I have reason to believe a country doesn't deserve it.
But it has remained sovereign. Even Brexiters admit as much. All they said is that it didn't 'feel' like it was sovereign.
“The sovereignty of Parliament is a fundamental principle of the UK constitution. Whilst Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU, it has not always felt like that.â€That's taken from the Brexit white paper. Now I'll readily admit to not having read the entire thing. So I hope I'm not quoting it out of context, but still. Perhaps it's a bit of an unfortunate phrasing, and I do understand the underlying sentiment. They don't want to be told what to do. So they want to employ their sovereignity, which was never in doubt, to now not adhere to the EU rather than using it to adhere to the EU. It does show however their sovereignity never was in question, just that up until recently they used it to agree to be part of a Union, in which you do have to have common agreements, because that unionisation brings different and greater benefits. Like weighing into negotiations as a +500 milion people market rather than a -70 million people market. Or having a market without customs.
And as problematic as that might be for us; they are allowed to choose to quit. And if they don't have a deal to propose that is better for the Union than trading with them under basic WTO rules, we'll have to agree to that. It sucks for us. (And them, becaus they'll be bound to trading with us under WTO rules too.) It makes trading that much more expensive and tiresome. But we have no choice if they choose to go down that road, exactly because they've Always been sovereign.
The thing to keep in mind here though, is that the benefit of our free single market and freedom of movement and trade is not a fundamental right that we are refusing here. It's the benefit for the trade-off in financial contributions to and compromise to the rules on trade and immigration we require to build this Union. A trade-off each party-nation sovereignly chooses for, or doesn't choose for in the case of the UK. And the EU will protect the benefits and the wellbeing of the members of the Union, when it comes to trade. This would be like asking to stop paying your membership to a country club but still showing up every day expecting to be served brandy and a cigar in your lofty chair. All the while us having less funds and brandy and cigars to offer the paying members. We can't be that unfair to our members who actually make a contribution. That's not us being unfair or difficult to the UK; that's us doing what we've been doing for decades. (The reason for our unifying in the first place.) Now we just have to do it with one less member.
Important too is that I don't think the UK nor the EU is going to self-destruct come the beginning of april. Spending power is going to go down. Some businesses are going to go bankrupt and there will be a rise in unemployment. In the beginning. But both sides will survive, worse off than they were two years ago, but they'll march on. And at the cost of those problems, the UK will be able to make their own rules, though they already could (Belgium too makes it's own laws and rules), and won't be bound to follow EU trade and migration policy. (That last part will effectively be different.) And if there are other rules the UK was pressed on they can't wait to see banished: I'd love to hear them.
But they will still be bound to take in account the rules of different markets and trading partners and the rules set by the WTO. As everyone is, without effect on your national sovereignity.
Perhaps, if they don't like the WTO, they can have a referendum to quit that too.
Good reminder to trade in my remaining non-US stocks for money market accounts... Things are so bad that both stocks AND gold are both trending down for the future... That isn't supposed to happen.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 21, 2018, 07:49:45 AM
What if you viewed EU nations like US States and allowed then time to meld? Sure you might not be Brit or French or Italian. But there was a time here when people thought of themselves as Virginian or Massachussetian. And it seems to have worked out well.
We went from "These United States" to "The United States". Really made a difference.
I've often thought about the EU as an eventual nation, with the current countries as states, although I doubt is would be so analogous as that. And yes, joining the states under our United Union, seems to have been highly advantageous. Although, there are some that still don't like the idea of the Union, even though they derive benefits from it. It's like wanting to succeed but still get the free brandy and cigars, which is probably normal in many human relationships.
Mr. Obvious,
Thank you for that. It's helping me understand the workings of the EU and it's purposes. I was under the impression that British concern was mostly about having no control over immigration, which most countries control (or don't control) by their own choosing.
Quote from: SGOS on December 21, 2018, 01:07:18 PM
Mr. Obvious,
Thank you for that. It's helping me understand the workings of the EU and it's purposes. I was under the impression that British concern was mostly about having no control over immigration, which most countries control (or don't control) by their own choosing.
Well yes, i think wanting more control over migration is indeed one of THE most if not THE most important driving force behind brexit. I doubt it was mainly for THE curvature of bananas. :p
Quote from: SGOS on December 21, 2018, 12:59:28 PM
I've often thought about the EU as an eventual nation, with the current countries as states, although I doubt is would be so analogous as that. And yes, joining the states under our United Union, seems to have been highly advantageous. Although, there are some that still don't like the idea of the Union, even though they derive benefits from it. It's like wanting to succeed but still get the free brandy and cigars, which is probably normal in many human relationships.
Yep, sounds like post Civil War US all the way!
QuoteAnd it seems to have worked out well.
Really?
(https://cbsatlanta.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/gettyimages-478767832.jpg?w=1500)
Quote from: SGOS on December 21, 2018, 12:59:28 PM
I've often thought about the EU as an eventual nation, with the current countries as states, although I doubt is would be so analogous as that. And yes, joining the states under our United Union, seems to have been highly advantageous. Although, there are some that still don't like the idea of the Union, even though they derive benefits from it. It's like wanting to succeed but still get the free brandy and cigars, which is probably normal in many human relationships.
That is how federalism works in the US. The E and W coasts make all the money (and white collar crime) while the folks in the middle grow the food to feed these fools.
Quote from: Minimalist on December 20, 2018, 07:09:41 PM
Bait and Switch is a classic marketing ploy. The Brexiteers marketed one thing and delivered a large bag of shit.
Like all of politics since 510 BCE ... Athens and Rome. Shit hole city states.
Quote from: Minimalist on December 20, 2018, 08:37:45 PM
The remainers had a track record.
Of taking Merkel up their asses. German lover much?
Quote from: Cavebear on December 21, 2018, 07:49:45 AM
What if you viewed EU nations like US States and allowed then time to meld? Sure you might not be Brit or French or Italian. But there was a time here when people thought of themselves as Virginian or Massachussetian. And it seems to have worked out well.
We went from "These United States" to "The United States". Really made a difference.
I am all for breaking up the US. Should never have happened in the first place. Long live King George III (a little late I know). The Liberals should be treated as the new Native Americans. Exploit them, conquer them, put them on reservations.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 21, 2018, 10:19:23 AM
Good reminder to trade in my remaining non-US stocks for money market accounts... Things are so bad that both stocks AND gold are both trending down for the future... That isn't supposed to happen.
Gold is a commodity. All commodities are down. Therefore ... gold is down. So are stocks and real estate. This is what deflation is ... decline in sale prices in most things, not just a few things.
Quote from: SGOS on December 21, 2018, 12:59:28 PM
I've often thought about the EU as an eventual nation, with the current countries as states, although I doubt is would be so analogous as that. And yes, joining the states under our United Union, seems to have been highly advantageous. Although, there are some that still don't like the idea of the Union, even though they derive benefits from it. It's like wanting to succeed but still get the free brandy and cigars, which is probably normal in many human relationships.
We all had the same language in the colonies. Almost the same culture and religion. And we didn't see ourselves as victims of 10,000 years of in-fighting. That was in the future. The Europeans are the opposite of the US ... no common language, no common culture, not common religion (other than Marxism). So the odds are very long against the EU from the beginning. Also we don't have the Vatican stuck in the middle of us.
Quote from: Minimalist on December 21, 2018, 12:41:00 AM
Perhaps Britain should have been happy with that.
You go first (unless you prefer a German man of course).
Quote from: SGOS on December 21, 2018, 01:07:18 PM
Mr. Obvious,
Thank you for that. It's helping me understand the workings of the EU and it's purposes. I was under the impression that British concern was mostly about having no control over immigration, which most countries control (or don't control) by their own choosing.
Schengen is a death pact. All the immigrants should go to Belgium. Free the rest of W Europe from the plague. Capital cities (like Brussels) are a cancer to any political order, they grow without limit (see Mexico City).
Quote from: Cavebear on December 21, 2018, 03:22:53 PM
Yep, sounds like post Civil War US all the way!
100 years of anti-White Jim Crow? Thanks.
i have new for you, the original Civil War never ended. On to torching DC, Philly, NYC and Boston.
Quote from: Baruch on December 21, 2018, 07:41:37 PM
100 years of anti-White Jim Crow? Thanks.
i have new for you, the original Civil War never ended. On to torching DC, Philly, NYC and Boston.
Forgive me for only reading the last of your dozen posts above. I don't have that much time to waste.
But on this, I was discussing political union, not diehard confederate KKK practices that refused to re-enter the Union. After all civil disruptions, there are always total ass-holes who won't re-engage.
I got moved, as a child, from Massachusetts to Virginia in the late 50s and saw the unending insanity first-hand. The bizarre hatred in the South of losing what was, after all, merely a political disagreement, has never left me.
Those who will not part with a failed past define "loser" to me.
Yeah, sorry you had to see the bad side of Southern culture. As a Westerner I have mostly avoided both the South and the NE. And escaped from California, twice. If you were regularly visited by Mara Salvatrucha ... you wouldn't like Hispanics either. Fortunately I stay out of bad neighborhoods.
Quote from: Munch on December 20, 2018, 05:48:11 PM
again, your siding on the eu's beliefs the uk wasn't trying to make said deals. Its just that the eu didn't like it or even meet halfway.
Actually, I'm siding on the fact that those deals haven't yet been made nor look close to being made. It's your government officials that promised they could or would be made. And if you think we're being unfair or are playing hard to get because we can't agree to an illegal soft border between ireland and north-ireland and don't allow a foreign influence free access to the single market which is exactly the source for our economic strength and our very reason for unionising, then tough luck. That's how the world works. We're never going to give you an as good a trade-deal as you would get being part of the EU. And we're always going to be your biggest trade-partner. Nor is New Zealand or the US or any other place going to give you as good a deal because you've made yourself into a smaller market, cutting your leverage in the negotiations. And blaming businespartners for not meeting you half-way doesn't change anything in that regard. If you have more leverage, you don't meet half-way. That's pure business. And the UK can 'try' to make as many deals as they want, it's the ones that they'll end up with and they manage to close that will actually count.
It's a cold, hard and mostly poor world out there, and the UK is alienating itself from it's most important economic partners, heading for recession that will hit it harder than it will hit the UK's unified former partners. And for what? Fear of turkey joining the EU? Something that hasn't happened in the two decades since it's application? Something that doesn't seem more likely now than it did twenty years ago? Something the UK, as one of the most important members of the EU, could actuallly VETO on it's own merrit?
Brits who voted for Brexit think differently.
You Americans had your Independence Day from the Brits on July the 4th 1776
We want our independence Day from the EU.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh11RYjheUY
Quote from: pr126 on December 26, 2018, 08:42:32 AM
Brits who voted for Brexit think differently.
You Americans had your Independence Day from the Brits on July the 4th 1776
We want our independence Day from the EU.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh11RYjheUY
You could, if EU was ruled by King Louis XIV. Co-dependence made sure that the US wasn't completely free of Britain, and similarly Britain from the Continent. The existence of the Empire allowed a temporary British independence from Continental affairs.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on December 26, 2018, 07:03:43 AM
Actually, I'm siding on the fact that those deals haven't yet been made nor look close to being made. It's your government officials that promised they could or would be made. And if you think we're being unfair or are playing hard to get because we can't agree to an illegal soft border between ireland and north-ireland and don't allow a foreign influence free access to the single market which is exactly the source for our economic strength and our very reason for unionising, then tough luck. That's how the world works. We're never going to give you an as good a trade-deal as you would get being part of the EU. And we're always going to be your biggest trade-partner. Nor is New Zealand or the US or any other place going to give you as good a deal because you've made yourself into a smaller market, cutting your leverage in the negotiations. And blaming businespartners for not meeting you half-way doesn't change anything in that regard. If you have more leverage, you don't meet half-way. That's pure business. And the UK can 'try' to make as many deals as they want, it's the ones that they'll end up with and they manage to close that will actually count.
It's a cold, hard and mostly poor world out there, and the UK is alienating itself from it's most important economic partners, heading for recession that will hit it harder than it will hit the UK's unified former partners. And for what? Fear of turkey joining the EU? Something that hasn't happened in the two decades since it's application? Something that doesn't seem more likely now than it did twenty years ago? Something the UK, as one of the most important members of the EU, could actuallly VETO on it's own merrit?
The whole point of British membership in the EU (but not the British Pound) was to be a Trojan Horse against German Revanchism. EU should be glad to be rid of Britain. The French Poodle is more their kind of ally.
QuoteYeah, sorry you had to see the bad side of Southern culture.
Are you suggesting there's a good side?
Well, the food's pretty damned good.
Quote from: Minimalist on December 13, 2018, 07:21:51 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46550264
Funny. Our conservatards seem to be having a contest to see who can be the silliest fuck, too.
(https://www.snopes.com/uploads/2015/12/obama-my-fault.jpg)
Quote from: Minimalist on December 26, 2018, 02:38:36 PM
Are you suggesting there's a good side?
You can kiss my grits ... are you a damn Yankee?
President Obama, for various reasons, didn't accomplish much. He certainly isn't responsible for Brexit. I don't think he is even responsible for Trump being elected, Hillary did that.
Quote from: Baruch on December 26, 2018, 02:47:22 AM
Yeah, sorry you had to see the bad side of Southern culture. As a Westerner I have mostly avoided both the South and the NE. And escaped from California, twice. If you were regularly visited by Mara Salvatrucha ... you wouldn't like Hispanics either. Fortunately I stay out of bad neighborhoods.
I had to travel to all regions of the US in the course of my career. Most areas had annoying biases. I hated it. You might have felt comfortable in most of those places.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 29, 2018, 01:22:00 PM
I had to travel to all regions of the US in the course of my career. Most areas had annoying biases. I hated it. You might have felt comfortable in most of those places.
Not really. In my world, the default position is ... "first lets kill the Jews, not the lawyers".
Quote from: Baruch on December 29, 2018, 05:06:50 PM
Not really. In my world, the default position is ... "first lets kill the Jews, not the lawyers".
No problem with Jews. In fact, some of my best friends... And I know the reaction to that. But they were. All my best friends growing up WERE Jewish, easiest friends an atheist coukd have (given that I never met another atheist til I was 25). They weren't evangical like you catholics and protestants, we played games and got along just fine. Lewus and I learned chess and other board games together, and Robert and Steve and I beat the hell out of each playing tackle football on open fields. They were routinely around my house and I in theirs. And my best adult friend was Jewish.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 29, 2018, 05:50:33 PM
No problem with Jews. In fact, some of my best friends... And I know the reaction to that. But they were. All my best friends growing up WERE Jewish, easiest friends an atheist coukd have (given that I never met another atheist til I was 25). They weren't evangical like you catholics and protestants, we played games and got along just fine. Lewus and I learned chess and other board games together, and Robert and Steve and I beat the hell out of each playing tackle football on open fields. They were routinely around my house and I in theirs. And my best adult friend was Jewish.
Cultural Jews perhaps. Most modern Jews are secular/atheist. They only do Jewish things because of the ethnicity.
Quote from: Baruch on December 26, 2018, 07:29:31 PM
You can kiss my grits ... are you a damn Yankee?
Yes, I am. And now living out in fucking Arizona with a shitload of midwesterners who got tired of shoveling snow.
Hey, shoveling snow is great exercise for the upper and lower body!
But then, according to 1 Timothy 4:8, "bodily exercise profiteth little:"
So all those doctors that encourage us to get plenty of exercise are going against God's holy word!
LOL
Quote from: Baruch on December 29, 2018, 07:36:31 PM
Cultural Jews perhaps. Most modern Jews are secular/atheist. They only do Jewish things because of the ethnicity.
Yes. I used to have lunch with a co-worker whose mother kept a kosher kitchen. Many was the time we'd go into a diner and he'd order Fresh Ham. Me, being a ball-buster of course, had to ask "what would mom say?" He would always reply, as menacingly as a 5 foot, 5 inch bald little guy could manage, "she won't know if you don't tell her."
He was one of those cultural jews of which you speak.
I got so involved in kosher food stories that I almost forgot why I opened this thread.
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/now-50-50-chance-brexit-will-stopped-theresa-mays-trade-minister/
QuoteNow a ’50-50 chance’ Brexit will be stopped: Theresa May’s trade minister
Oh well. It was a stupid idea anyway.
Quote from: Minimalist on December 29, 2018, 08:20:12 PM
Yes. I used to have lunch with a co-worker whose mother kept a kosher kitchen. Many was the time we'd go into a diner and he'd order Fresh Ham. Me, being a ball-buster of course, had to ask "what would mom say?" He would always reply, as menacingly as a 5 foot, 5 inch bald little guy could manage, "she won't know if you don't tell her."
He was one of those cultural jews of which you speak.
I love bacon myself. Pork is fine, if well cooked. In ancient times most food was undercooked. Trichinosis and other food poisoning. Today it mostly seems to be listeria on romaine lettuce. One outbreak of this a few years ago in California, was because they were using deer manure to fertilize the fields with, something both non-sterile and wild.
But I bet some asshole said "hey, it's organic!"
Did you ever see this?
https://www.theonion.com/jewish-elders-lift-6-000-year-ham-ban-1819564886
Quote from: Minimalist on December 29, 2018, 11:12:43 PM
But I bet some asshole said "hey, it's organic!"
Did you ever see this?
https://www.theonion.com/jewish-elders-lift-6-000-year-ham-ban-1819564886
No, but that is a good one. Have to have some standards though, I won't be having bacon ice cream. I love The Onion. Too bad it is even more prophesy than 1984 ;-(
https://www.theonion.com/buddhist-extremist-cell-vows-to-unleash-tranquility-on-1819575891
https://www.theonion.com/historians-discover-meditation-spread-from-ancient-chin-1819580402
They do brilliant stuff.
https://www.theonion.com/god-angrily-clarifies-dont-kill-rule-1819566178
In the age of Trump it is hard for them to beat reality but hopefully they will keep trying.
Quote from: Minimalist on December 29, 2018, 11:12:43 PM
But I bet some asshole said "hey, it's organic!"
Did you ever see this?
https://www.theonion.com/jewish-elders-lift-6-000-year-ham-ban-1819564886
I always wondered why there were pigs around for Jebus to drive the demons into. Were they just being raised to supply the Romans?
Quote from: Minimalist on December 30, 2018, 01:23:46 AM
They do brilliant stuff.
https://www.theonion.com/god-angrily-clarifies-dont-kill-rule-1819566178
In the age of Trump it is hard for them to beat reality but hopefully they will keep trying.
What's even better is
Not The Onion (https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/) - a site that has real news that should only be found in The Onion.
For the record The Babylon Bee, a xtian satire site, comes up with some good shit on occasion.
https://babylonbee.com/news/biblical-age-accountability-raised-30-millennials
QuoteBiblical Age Of Accountability Raised To 30 For Millennials
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 30, 2018, 05:27:28 PM
I always wondered why there were pigs around for Jebus to drive the demons into. Were they just being raised to supply the Romans?
Yes. And gentile colonists. There was a legion stationed there (between Jerusalem and Caesarea). In the story, where the pig miracle happens, on the E side of the Sea of Galilee, was mostly gentile, it really is a prediction of gentile annihilation. And of course the demoniac ... was a Jewish description of gentiles in general. Galilee means land of foreigners, aka Samaritans. But under the Maccabees, Judeans had moved north to colonize it.
Yes, coming of age, Bar Mitzvah, has become baby sitting, ever since the girls got their own (20th century and only some do it) and named it a Bat Mitzvah.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhSg9X3q2gc
You need contrarian thinking to get a clear picture apart from group think. Even if the contrarian is Marxist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA3tOfVGkm0
All 7 billion people are entitled to move to England ;-) That way the island will sink, like Atlantis.
I do wish the EU had been successful, in a democratic way. But it is undemocratic, and a failure. I don't think that GB ever had a place in the EU, otherwise you would have given up the Pound for the Euro.
The EU was created from USA envy. But the similarity is asymmetrical. The US became great because of massive European immigration here. The EU can't become great thru massive African/Asian migration there. Also the EU constitution sucks even worse than the US constitution.
The EU was created by globalist.
The European Union’s Secret History (http://www.voltairenet.org/article192787.html)
Quote from: Baruch on January 03, 2019, 04:40:48 AM
All 7 billion people are entitled to move to England ;-) That way the island will sink, like Atlantis.
I do wish the EU had been successful, in a democratic way. But it is undemocratic, and a failure. I don't think that GB ever had a place in the EU, otherwise you would have given up the Pound for the Euro.
The EU was created from USA envy. But the similarity is asymmetrical. The US became great because of massive European immigration here. The EU can't become great thru massive African/Asian migration there. Also the EU constitution sucks even worse than the US constitution.
Hogwash! Folly! Baseless slander!
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 03, 2019, 05:43:16 AM
Hogwash! Folly! Baseless slander!
Hope you didn't put all your money in German banks. Looks like they are the new Enron. I learned Russian in HS, it was't so bad.
Well, the only way to not be part of the Turkish Caliphate, is to be a Russian colony. How about a Democratic Socialist Belgium?
Remember, I am not anti-anyone, except stupidity will earn its Darwin awards. Certainly not anti-Russian or anti-Turkish.
It is possible that everything European is downhill from 1914, though I hope not. Nietzsche and Marx may be the death of them.
In any case, time for the US to leave Nato. We can't afford to subsidize European fantasies.
The Europeans do need to be under occupation of someone, if not the US, then Russia or Turkey will do fine.
North Sea petroleum is in decline. Russia can supply now, Turkey ... maybe in the future after annexation of Cyprus and Greece.
Quote from: pr126 on January 03, 2019, 05:36:08 AM
The EU was created by globalist.
The European Union’s Secret History (http://www.voltairenet.org/article192787.html)
But Globalism was the neo-lib/neo-con strategy from 1946 going forward. Are you saying old policies lose relevance to the point where they are counterproductive? That everything changed in 1991, but the Establishment couldn't comprehend it.
Certainly Soros is part of MI6 etc. just like George H W Bush was a part of CIA.
The War on Terror has been a bust. And a war with Russia isn't worth thinking about. Generals always fighting the last war.
Quote from: Baruch on January 03, 2019, 06:14:34 AM
Hope you didn't put all your money in German banks. Looks like they are the new Enron. I learned Russian in HS, it was't so bad.
Well, the only way to not be part of the Turkish Caliphate, is to be a Russian colony. How about a Democratic Socialist Belgium?
Remember, I am not anti-anyone, except stupidity will earn its Darwin awards. Certainly not anti-Russian or anti-Turkish.
It is possible that everything European is downhill from 1914, though I hope not. Nietzsche and Marx may be the death of them.
In any case, time for the US to leave Nato. We can't afford to subsidize European fantasies.
The Europeans do need to be under occupation of someone, if not the US, then Russia or Turkey will do fine.
North Sea petroleum is in decline. Russia can supply now, Turkey ... maybe in the future after annexation of Cyprus and Greece.
You know, if you said things in a way that they make sense, it would be a lot easier for the people you're talking to, to help build a constructive conversation.
So the Irish and Germans don't seem impressed with Ms. May.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 03, 2019, 07:16:44 AM
You know, if you said things in a way that they make sense, it would be a lot easier for the people you're talking to, to help build a constructive conversation.
Constructive conversation? Not you personally ... but the EU is an enemy of the US. That is why you have been under military occupation. We should nuke you, but the Islamists and the Russians make that unnecessary.
The US didn't "save" W Europe in 1945 ... for the W Europeans. It was to colonize you vs being like E Europe colonized by the Russians. With the end of the Soviet Union, the EU got uppity ;-)
Without the Marshall Plan (not part of the original post-war plan) then W Europe would have chosen the Warsaw Pact over Nato for good reason. Couldn't have that. The US wasn't even wanting to bail out post-war Britain (much to the angst of the Brits). No reason for us to subsidize the Labor party.
Quote from: Minimalist on January 03, 2019, 12:54:42 PM
So the Irish and Germans don't seem impressed with Ms. May.
Well Thatcher knew how to cut off Argentine cohones. But that is exceptional, with any PM, of any sex.
I don't envy the shit sandwich she was handed by Brexit ... probably nobody in Britain could have been all Tory party-minded, politically correct, slavish to the Franco-German Axis and a quisling, all in the same package ;-)
Bwahahaha! It seems the lemmings are lining up to go over the cliff!
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/03/world/europe/brexit-no-deal-conservatives.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
QuoteBritish Conservatives, in No Mood for Compromise, Embrace ‘No Deal’ Brexit
What's the explain-it-like-I'm-five version? No brexit deal = ?
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 03, 2019, 08:59:43 PM
What's the explain-it-like-I'm-five version? No brexit deal = ?
Hard border between ireland and northern ireland.
Trading under more expensive WTO trading rules with european countries. (They are about 10% of our market, we range between 45% to 55% of theirs.) making things more expensive. Also for them, until they create new arangements: dealing with all partners in the world under less favorable WTO trading rules and tariffs as their current agreements are based off their membership of the EU. Not indefinitely problematic but an immeadiate concern that could have reprocussions for months to years.
All manner of possible major reprocussions on econimical level because of this. Due to parts and goods needing to cross borders multiple times, this will be A problem for international compagnies. Especially problematic concerning Europe-centric producing corporations.
I expect devaluation of both the pound and THE euro.
Custom checks will be reinstated further Amping THE price and delivery time of fresh foods especially.
Pro Side:
Brexit means Brexit. So they'll havefull control over their money. (That small part that went to THE EU budget.) they'll have full control over their borders (hence THE above menioned consequences). And they'll have full control over their laws, not just THE control they already had, but also regarding migration and product-quality. Of course, if they want tot trade with other countries, they are still going to have to find common ground.
Real easy version;
Shit's gonna get more expensive for both Britts and europeans.
Everyone employed in an international compagny Should look into reschooling themselves as customs officers.
Quote from: Minimalist on January 03, 2019, 08:52:03 PM
Bwahahaha! It seems the lemmings are lining up to go over the cliff!
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/03/world/europe/brexit-no-deal-conservatives.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
They are as slippery as never-Trump Republicans. You never know what they will do next. Is Romney the putative Republican Presidential candidate for 2020?
Quote from: Minimalist on December 29, 2018, 08:12:28 PM
Yes, I am. And now living out in fucking Arizona with a shitload of midwesterners who got tired of shoveling snow.
And so am I. Grew up in Massachusetts, got dragged kicking and screaming to VA age 10-13 where I was forced to regurgitate "The South Shall Rise Again" to pass my VA history classes. and then was (moderately) mercifully surrendered to MD. Which became a liberal/progressive State while I was there, so I stayed.
And here I are... ;)
Find out why Soros is not the only who sees the END of the EU!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYBsw810vpk
Quote from: pr126 on January 05, 2019, 12:12:42 PM
Find out why Soros is not the only who sees the END of the EU!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYBsw810vpk
OK. Might you notice that that isn't what Soros actually said but rather what some OTHER person said he said? Just checking.
Romney is a bullshit artist. In that he is no different from the WLB.
My sense is that pr pisses himself at night fearing that George Soros is hiding under his bed.
Grow up, son. The man has better things to do than worry about idiots like you.
Quote from: Minimalist on January 05, 2019, 12:53:14 PM
Romney is a bullshit artist. In that he is no different from the WLB.
Spare us the acronyms unless you tell stupid people like me what they mean first... Look it up online and the possibilities are endless.
But yes, Romney is a bullshit artist just as 90% of Republicans and half the Democrats are.
Is there a place I can legally bet that Britain backs out of "Brexit"? Because it really is a stupid idea, based on a push by nationalist idiots who never really thought it might happen and now don't know what to do...
"Be careful about what you wish for because you might get it" seems trite, but applies.
Is it possible that you have never seen Bill Maher?
https://youtu.be/WgPMD-Iro7A (https://youtu.be/WgPMD-Iro7A)
Quote from: Minimalist on January 05, 2019, 01:17:36 PM
Is it possible that you have never seen Bill Maher?
I love Maher. Pure genius that guy. But I'm not subscribed to HBO (I actually keep thinking of doing it JUST for him). So, thanks for the explanation. And just a suggestion, a request for information doesn't require sarcasm. Not to say I don't admire it when well done. ;)
We're cool, dude...
Quote from: pr126 on January 05, 2019, 12:12:42 PM
Find out why Soros is not the only who sees the END of the EU!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYBsw810vpk
If there has to be WW III, it has to start in Germany. My old supervisor from 1974 said so.
Sorry for them though. The US should have helped Germany in 1914 (I have German-American ancestors too).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADLXmGzWWS8
Aw...it's only money!
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/07/investing/brexit-banks-moving-assets/index.html
Quote$1 trillion is leaving Britain because of Brexit
QuoteLondon (CNN Business)Brexit hasn't happened yet but it's already shrinking the United Kingdom's financial services industry.
Banks and other financial companies have shifted at least £800 million ($1 trillion) worth of assets out of the country and into the European Union because of Brexit, EY said in a report published Monday.
Many banks have set up new offices elsewhere in the European Union to safeguard their regional operations after Brexit, which means they also have to move substantial assets there to satisfy EU regulators. Other firms are moving assets to protect clients against market volatility and sudden changes in regulation.
Quote from: Minimalist on January 07, 2019, 10:58:51 AM
Aw...it's only money!
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/07/investing/brexit-banks-moving-assets/index.html
All the gold has moved to China (facilitated by Rothschilds thru Hong Kong) over the last 10 years. There won't be any money in the US either. China is the One True Emperor. One party pseudo-democracy and state involvement with all business .. is the fascist way forward. I remember couple years ago, even before Brexit, Lloyds of London gold vault being emptied out for the first time in history. The gold was sent to Zurich to be melted and remolded (to Chinese requirements).
Oh no. Not the Great Zionist Conspiracy again!
Quote from: Minimalist on January 07, 2019, 02:04:15 PM
Oh no. Not the Great Zionist Conspiracy again!
There are no real Jews. That is a Gentile conspiracy.
Now you've done it.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/e7/a9/b2e7a9c66822a1b742a3919ef3906194.jpg)
I like the children's movie with a broken magic wand ... the girl wanted to turn an angry farmer into a little rabbit, but she mispoke and got a giant rabbi instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpZsdb4X0B4
Quotebut she mispoke
The devil's in the details, as the saying goes.
Quote from: Minimalist on January 07, 2019, 09:52:17 PM
The devil's in the details, as the saying goes.
Atheists have no details, because you have no devil.
It's just a saying.
Quote from: Minimalist on January 08, 2019, 11:50:56 AM
It's just a saying.
So is any of the crap that comes from monkeys, just saying.
People use words, idioms in particular, in an unconscious way, not even realizing what they are saying.
And some people over-analyze everything and drive themselves bonkers in the process.
Quote from: Baruch on January 05, 2019, 03:13:19 PM
If there has to be WW III, it has to start in Germany.
Old Jewish paranoia? :p
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 08, 2019, 01:35:37 PM
Old Jewish paranoia? :p
I don't think my old boss was Jewish. It is his idea, not mine.
But in fact, Jews aren't paranoid, we have been dealing with murderous Gentiles for 5000 years now (see Narmer Palette).
Of course other people are victimized too. That is the price of civilization apparently (see Sargon of Akkad).
Quote from: Minimalist on January 08, 2019, 01:18:14 PM
And some people over-analyze everything and drive themselves bonkers in the process.
Unfortunately, it isn't only themselves who are driven bonkers...
;-)
Quote from: Minimalist on January 08, 2019, 01:18:14 PM
And some people over-analyze everything and drive themselves bonkers in the process.
That is a self description, and for most of the people who post here. Makes my point about unconsciously ironic responses.
Quote from: Baruch on January 08, 2019, 06:52:28 PM
I don't think my old boss was Jewish. It is his idea, not mine.
But in fact, Jews aren't paranoid, we have been dealing with murderous Gentiles for 5000 years now (see Narmer Palette).
Of course other people are victimized too. That is the price of civilization apparently (see Sargon of Akkad).
Yeah, 'being paranoid doesn't mean nobody is following you' as they say. :)
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 08, 2019, 01:35:37 PM
Old Jewish paranoia? :p
Nah. Many nations are culturally anti-jewish. It comes from striving to stay "outsiders".
Quote from: Cavebear on January 12, 2019, 01:54:03 AM
Nah. Many nations are culturally anti-jewish. It comes from striving to stay "outsiders".
Not true. At first paranoia about not assimilating with Gentiles. Then when we did assimilate in the 19th century, and outperformed the IQ deficient ... a new paranoia. Too many Jewish doctors, bankers, etc ... professions we were banned from before the 19th century. This persisted until 1950.
Culture is bull shit aka collective fiction (which side of the road do you drive on?). Ban all culture.
Quote from: Baruch on January 12, 2019, 02:25:26 AM
Not true. At first paranoia about not assimilating with Gentiles. Then when we did assimilate in the 19th century, and outperformed the IQ deficient ... a new paranoia. Too many Jewish doctors, bankers, etc ... professions we were banned from before the 19th century. This persisted until 1950.
Culture is bull shit aka collective fiction (which side of the road do you drive on?). Ban all culture.
I think you are conflating old European ideas of Jews becoming bankers because Christians and Islamists "couldn't" charge interest on money with more modern times when such matters are no longer a concern. It sure was real, but not today.
And I recognize that *I* may be misunderstanding how old habits die hard. As an atheist, I don't have much of a cultural experience with religious assumptions of careers.
Interesting thoughts...
Quote from: Cavebear on January 12, 2019, 02:56:39 AM
I think you are conflating old European ideas of Jews becoming bankers because Christians and Islamists "couldn't" charge interest on money with more modern times when such matters are no longer a concern. It sure was real, but not today.
And I recognize that *I* may be misunderstanding how old habits die hard. As an atheist, I don't have much of a cultural experience with religious assumptions of careers.
Interesting thoughts...
Yes, we are talking pre 1950. It was Christians and Muslims who couldn't charge interests, and used "court" Jews to get around that (Rothschilds).
In the Jewish ghetto (originally implying Jews only), Jews only provided services to other Jews. But they couldn't own land or farm. They were entirely dependent on a food supply, provided by Gentiles, who were hostile to them and forbidden to do business with them. Embargoed. Because the embargo often broke down, limited numbers of Jews could survive with illegal activity (see Shylock). The Jewish Mafia was the side effect of oppression by the Roman Mafia, as recently as Mussolini. At one time Jews (who were multilingual and everywhere) were a mainstay of international trade (which also usually was against the law, hence the worry of Rome losing all its gold to India and China for spices, gems and silk.
Quote from: Baruch on January 12, 2019, 08:16:16 AM
Yes, we are talking pre 1950. It was Christians and Muslims who couldn't charge interests, and used "court" Jews to get around that (Rothschilds).
In the Jewish ghetto (originally implying Jews only), Jews only provided services to other Jews. But they couldn't own land or farm. They were entirely dependent on a food supply, provided by Gentiles, who were hostile to them and forbidden to do business with them. Embargoed. Because the embargo often broke down, limited numbers of Jews could survive with illegal activity (see Shylock). The Jewish Mafia was the side effect of oppression by the Roman Mafia, as recently as Mussolini. At one time Jews (who were multilingual and everywhere) were a mainstay of international trade (which also usually was against the law, hence the worry of Rome losing all its gold to India and China for spices, gems and silk.
Trade bless the Jews who did indeed have something to do with ending the European Dark Ages... They had more to do with the politics of the time than Popes did.
Quote from: Cavebear on January 12, 2019, 09:16:55 AM
Trade bless the Jews who did indeed have something to do with ending the European Dark Ages... They had more to do with the politics of the time than Popes did.
Only 2 of 266 Popes are called "Great" ... Leo and Gregory. The last one was 1400 years ago. Tells you something.
Quote from: Baruch on January 12, 2019, 11:35:07 AM
Only 2 of 266 Popes are called "Great" ... Leo and Gregory. The last one was 1400 years ago. Tells you something.
That's because few Popes were actually "great" and they may have over-named them by 2. LOL!
I might allow Alexander, Gengis Khan, and Iuliis Caisar though.
Quote from: Cavebear on January 12, 2019, 11:56:38 AM
That's because few Popes were actually "great" and they may have over-named them by 2. LOL!
I might allow Alexander, Gengis Khan, and Iuliis Caisar though.
Alpha males, not Popes. Popes are all soy boys. I can admire military prowess, though this aspect of human behavior saddens me.
Quote from: Baruch on January 12, 2019, 12:06:07 PM
Alpha males, not Popes. Popes are all soy boys. I can admire military prowess, though this aspect of human behavior saddens me.
Remind us of the soy-boy Popes who ran Crusades...?
Quote from: Cavebear on January 12, 2019, 01:09:46 PM
Remind us of the soy-boy Popes who ran Crusades...?
Yes, they were safe back at the Vatican. They sent in the Alpha-males to do their dirty work. Typical soy-boys.
Quote from: Cavebear on January 12, 2019, 11:56:38 AM
That's because few Popes were actually "great" and they may have over-named them by 2. LOL!
I might allow Alexander, Gengis Khan, and Iuliis Caisar though.
Four, actually: Leo I, Gregory I, Nicholas I and John Paul II is often referred to as 'John Paul the Great' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II#Title_"the_Great") by the faithful. As it turns out, there isn't an official process for determining "greatness". In theory, it's by "universal acclamation". However, a little media manipulation by the Vatican can't be ruled out. In any case, there are already at least two John Paul the Great high schools, and one university.
I well remember the day in 1978 when classes at my high school stopped so we could watch the 'Habemus papam' on TV; in Toledo, with its large Polish population, you can probably imagine the cheer that went up at St Francis when it was announced the Pope was Polish.
It took less than a minute for the first joke about Communion bread and wine being replaced with kielbasa and beer. XD
I think "Great" popes are the ones who do the best job covering up the Pervert Priest scandal. Not many great ones lately.
Quote from: trdsf on January 13, 2019, 07:38:25 AMAs it turns out, there isn't an official process for determining "greatness". In theory, it's by "universal acclamation".
AFAIK, "the Great" is usually indicative of absolute political power - anyone who is called Great is done so primarily because no one can dispute it and live.
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 14, 2019, 10:57:46 AM
AFAIK, "the Great" is usually indicative of absolute political power - anyone who is called Great is done so primarily because no one can dispute it and live.
Yes, Opus Dei death squads, particularly albinos, are very scary.
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 14, 2019, 10:57:46 AM
AFAIK, "the Great" is usually indicative of absolute political power - anyone who is called Great is done so primarily because no one can dispute it and live.
As best I can recall, it was the day of the funeral that it was reported that the Vatican was claiming there were public calls to have JP2 called 'the Great'. Which sounded to me an awful lot like the way Faux News uses 'Some say...' as a cover to pretend they're only reporting, rather than pushing their agenda.
Quote from: trdsf on January 14, 2019, 03:49:17 PM
As best I can recall, it was the day of the funeral that it was reported that the Vatican was claiming there were public calls to have JP2 called 'the Great'. Which sounded to me an awful lot like the way Faux News uses 'Some say...' as a cover to pretend they're only reporting, rather than pushing their agenda.
That's actually kinda clever. When a big organization like the Catholic church claims there's a public hubbub over something, the rank and file hear that and change their behavior to match, triggering it for real. Then they can put their support behind it, claiming that they're just following the will of the people. Then, if the "will of the people" is outnumbered by Catholics who aren't having it, the Vatican can change its mind without repercussion. After all, it wasn't their idea.
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 14, 2019, 06:13:09 PM
That's actually kinda clever. When a big organization like the Catholic church claims there's a public hubbub over something, the rank and file hear that and change their behavior to match, triggering it for real. Then they can put their support behind it, claiming that they're just following the will of the people. Then, if the "will of the people" is outnumbered by Catholics who aren't having it, the Vatican can change its mind without repercussion. After all, it wasn't their idea.
Sounds just like secular politics.
I don't think fucking Leo was so great, either.
Quote from: Minimalist on January 14, 2019, 07:42:14 PM
I don't think fucking Leo was so great, either.
I didn't know he was gay, and that you gay-laid him so long ago. Halitosis?
Sure, Gregorian Chant (named for is reform of the hymnal) isn't 70s disco music.
Getting back onto topic.
Parliament vote on May's deal is today.
A mere formality, as it's going to get shot down, hard. I think.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 15, 2019, 05:15:50 AM
Getting back onto topic.
Parliament vote on May's deal is today.
A mere formality, as it's going to get shot down, hard. I think.
Nothing will happen. The Austrian Illuminati have things well under control. You will have the monarchs, Popes and PMs they tell you to have. The people can vote all they want, but it won't matter, as Stalin said, it only matters who counts the votes, and if the vote squeaked by in the wrong direction, then force major is required.
Quote from: Baruch on January 15, 2019, 05:28:57 AM
Nothing will happen. The Austrian Illuminati have things well under control. You will have the monarchs, Popes and PMs they tell you to have. The people can vote all they want, but it won't matter, as Stalin said, it only matters who counts the votes, and if the vote squeaked by in the wrong direction, then force major is required.
It's funny how you often say atheists are irredeemable nihilists.
(I mean I personally am one, don't get me wrong, but I don't mind.)
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 15, 2019, 06:07:29 AM
It's funny how you often say atheists are irredeemable nihilists.
(I mean I personally am one, don't get me wrong, but I don't mind.)
There are many kinds of theists (some nihilist) and equally many kinds of atheists (some nihilist). If you aren't nihilist yet (the aging thing) then good for you.
I have to fight my tendency to political nihilism. It doesn't touch the rest of my life.
And the no's have it!
Back to the drawing board?
I didn't expect quite that shattering a defeat. I will be surprised if the no confidence vote is much closer than the existing party division -- I think May will win that vote, but she's definitely weakened. I doubt much that today's Tory rebels have any taste for either a new leadership fight or a general election; I expect most, if not all, will back the government.
I don't think there's much choice other than to extend the departure date, and I'll be surprised if she can avoid a second referendum now.
They're probably gonna go with a vote of no confidence, first. Don't you think?
Glad that things are getting into gear though.
Brexit's become my very dull game of thrones substitute. And i haven't seen a main character die in forever.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 15, 2019, 04:10:58 PM
And the no's have it!
Back to the drawing board?
Nothing happens. Vote or no vote ... because the Muslim ISIS stormtroopers, run by the Franco-German Wehrmacht, are coming, if every vote, every referendum, every politicians isn't exactly what Berlin-Paris Axis wants. Can the Rome-Warsaw Axis stop this? Stay tuned to this same bat shit time, same bat shit channel for more of the same bat shit politics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alQ0zUjLLmg
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 15, 2019, 07:17:01 PM
They're probably gonna go with a vote of no confidence, first. Don't you think?
Glad that things are getting into gear though.
Brexit's become my very dull game of thrones substitute. And i haven't seen a main character die in forever.
If there is a vote of no confidence, PM May can simply rely on the support of President Maduro of Venezuela, who just got President Erdogan of Turkey, to make her big declaration ... "I am Baby Doc Duvalier trapped in the body of an English woman". No need for further elections or votes.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 15, 2019, 07:17:01 PM
They're probably gonna go with a vote of no confidence, first. Don't you think?
Well, yeah. But I expect May to survive that.
Quote from: trdsf on January 15, 2019, 11:26:17 PM
Well, yeah. But I expect May to survive that.
Not that certain of that myself. But could very Well be.
Wouldn't know who in their right mind would want to take over anyway.
Quote from: Baruch on January 15, 2019, 07:23:42 PM
If there is a vote of no confidence, PM May can simply rely on the support of President Maduro of Venezuela, who just got President Erdogan of Turkey, to make her big declaration ... "I am Baby Doc Duvalier trapped in the body of an English woman". No need for further elections or votes.
Lol. You're just a Bucket of sunshine and flowers, lately, ain't ya?
Quote from: trdsf on January 15, 2019, 11:26:17 PM
Well, yeah. But I expect May to survive that.
Me too. For the simple reason that I can't believe anyone else is dumb enough to want the job of cleaning up her mess.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 16, 2019, 12:36:28 AM
Not that certain of that myself. But could very Well be.
Wouldn't know who in their right mind would want to take over anyway.
Winston Churchill. EU was his bad idea anyway, and he didn't intend the British Empire to be a part of it, but the EU was supposed to be a tool of post WW II Anglophone hegemony.
Just read a great article, with multipolarity, already last year, there was rhetoric in Turkey, France and England, to bring back their empires. Someone has to save the Third World from Silk Road colonialism by China. Greece is down on that too, Greece just got fined for using Piraeus for helping Chinese manufacturers avoid EU customs.
Will Belgian stormtroopers be heading back to the Congo soon?
Quote from: Baruch on January 16, 2019, 02:01:05 AM
Winston Churchill. EU was his bad idea anyway, and he didn't intend the British Empire to be a part of it, but the EU was supposed to be a tool of post WW II Anglophone hegemony.
Just read a great article, with multipolarity, already last year, there was rhetoric in Turkey, France and England, to bring back their empires. Someone has to save the Third World from Silk Road colonialism by China. Greece is down on that too, Greece just got fined for using Piraeus for helping Chinese manufacturers avoid EU customs.
Will Belgian stormtroopers be heading back to the Congo soon?
No, sorry.
Too Busy trying to pull a Frankenstein on THE remains of Churchill and margaret Thatcher.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 16, 2019, 02:18:57 AM
No, sorry.
Too Busy trying to pull a Frankenstein on THE remains of Churchill and margaret Thatcher.
If you were Brit not Belgian, then I can put you down as a definite Laborite? Well, not surprising over much of W Europe.
From the American perspective, W European socialism, including in Britain, was always viewed with suspicion. Perhaps your new Chinese masters (silk road to slavery) will be willing to subsidize your standard of living. That is what colonialism was all about, and what socialism chucked out in the post WW II period. Ah, but we don't need colonies, now that we have credit cards, right?
Yes, W European socialism, Cuba without the good Latin music.
Wasn't that the real choice in 1940 ... would W Europe become Vichy or Comintern? It was the attempt by Gorbachev to de-colonialize E Europe that led to the collapse of the Soviet Union economically (as the same effort did for Britain). Soviet inefficiency was being subsidized by factories seized in 1945.
https://youtu.be/y74TXzFhdZk
Motion of no Confidence is on the table
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 16, 2019, 12:36:28 AM
Not that certain of that myself. But could very Well be.
Wouldn't know who in their right mind would want to take over anyway.
Well, certainly not many on the Conservative side wants to open the door to elevating Boris Johnson or Michael Gove to the job... or Jeremy Corbyn. So I don't expect many defections from the Tories, and their DUPes... er, the DUP has already said they'll back their coalition partners.
Quote from: trdsf on January 16, 2019, 07:33:05 AM
Well, certainly not many on the Conservative side wants to open the door to elevating Boris Johnson or Michael Gove to the job... or Jeremy Corbyn. So I don't expect many defections from the Tories, and their DUPes... er, the DUP has already said they'll back their coalition partners.
Yeah you're right, she'll probably stay pm.
I'd concider resigning, Tbh. Buy i don't think she will.
In Japan after a fiasco like that she'd have to kill herself.
Quote from: Minimalist on January 16, 2019, 12:49:52 PM
In Japan after a fiasco like that she'd have to kill herself.
There is no honor or real Lolitas outside of Tokyo ;-)
With the prior changes in the unwritten UK constitution, PM May is insulated for another 12 months, given current triangulation. The Teflon PM.
This is because she could resign, but she won't. Labor or Tories could call for a vote of confidence, but they won't. If there was a vote of confidence, the Tories would side with May anyway and that would protect her for the additional 12 months as described above. The Queen could dissolve the government, but that hasn't happened since 1830. So most likely the UK will beg for an extension so that a new referenda can occur, with or without vote rigging, to decide that the UK was just kidding all along about Brexit.
Basically Lilliput had a better government than the UK has right now.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 16, 2019, 12:38:27 AM
Lol. You're just a Bucket of sunshine and flowers, lately, ain't ya?
We know in the US (traditional Americans anyway) that anything European is toxic, both to Europe and the rest of the world. But see just above for a brief summary as to how this defeat is PM May's greatest success so far.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 16, 2019, 11:18:10 AM
Yeah you're right, she'll probably stay pm.
I'd concider resigning, Tbh. Buy i don't think she will.
I don't think she'll stand down either; she still commands a parliamentary majority, however slim, and there's no way Labour can cobble together a majority or even a theoretically stable minority government.
What's going to be the interesting part of the vote will be the number of defections and abstentions -- if any and on which side. Both May and Corbyn have serious back-bench problems and the vote may give some insight into whose are worse.
Yup, she survived. And the DUP immediately pointed out that if their bloc had voted differently, she wouldn't have. This suggests to me that the DUP plans to hold this over her head from this day forward. If that's not a Unionist wet dream, having Westminster under their continual threat of blackmail... good luck, Great Britain. You're going to need it.
So Corbyn played his part, setting up a guarantee that PM May can't be challenged again for 12 months. The law requires a new General Election in 5 years, but that means she is good until Summer 2021, more than 12 months away.
Meanwhile the EU will give Britain more time to come to its senses, but won't offer a better deal. They expect a new referendum, and guarantees that the result will go their way, just like in the vote in Ireland to join the Euro in 2002, after previously being an EU member.
The key is that the Republic of Ireland will demand that N Ireland be turned over to them, to prevent the N ireland border "backstop". After that the EU can help Scotland and Wales split from England permanently. Reversing centuries of integration.
https://howmanydaystill.com/its/brexit-6
Won't happen. Already they are talking about totally flexible deadlines, that can put i off for a year or more. Never underestimate the ability of a corrupt politician to limbo.
Quote from: Baruch on January 23, 2019, 09:54:19 PM
Won't happen. Already they are talking about totally flexible deadlines, that can put i off for a year or more. Never underestimate the ability of a corrupt politician to limbo.
Flexible deadlines create new problems. How are they going to divide european parliament? Handle The budgets? Make THE budgets?
If you ask me; whatever party asks for an extension Should be expected to pay Some renumeration.
As a side note to the ongoing circus, wow, has Jeremy Corbyn completely fumbled a golden opportunity. He should have:
- Had Labour start preparing an alternative Brexit proposal as soon as it looked like May's agreement was in trouble, to be able to offer immediately upon defeat of the PM's plan. It would have given the image of someone ready to deal with the EU and the crisis at hand.
- Backed calls from the other parties for a referendum on whatever agreement does get the approval of Commons.
- Immediately moved for an extension of Article 50 to push back the exit date - and had that passed, it would have legitimized a no confidence vote since it would require Conservative and DUP defections and abstentions to pass.
Instead he seems determined to provide more sound and fury than actual leadership. Doesn't he want to be PM? Or is he trying to dodge that until things settle down?
I don't think anyone would want to be pm right now.
I can even imagine may having an arrested development moment.
"I've made a Huge mistake..."
hello darkness my old friend....
Probably. Also, what are the alternatives for the Conservatives - Johnson? Gove? Yikes.
Thatcher's corpse would do a better job, unfortunately.
Am I the only one who thinks that Brexit will end up being cancelled at the last moment?
No?
Anyone?
Oh well. :-P
Quote from: Halkenburg on January 27, 2019, 05:37:28 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that Brexit will end up being cancelled at the last moment?
No?
Anyone?
Oh well. :-P
I have already seen, in British media, the 11-d chess, of how this could end up, including indefinite delay or cancellation. PM Cameron was a git. He should have never allowed the referendum on Scotland or Brexit. Churchill was unique, mostly GB politicians are abysmal. Most of the time, Churchill was abysmal.
I do like Boris Johnson however. Classicist. Jacob Rees-Mogg support Boris Johnson apparently.
My guess is that they will declare a national emergency, to a reverse Trump (tear down that wall). Basically declare all EU to the British citizens. That is the point of Schengen, right?
Quote from: Halkenburg on January 27, 2019, 05:37:28 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that Brexit will end up being cancelled at the last moment?
No?
Anyone?
Oh well. :-P
I think it's not impossible. I'll be shocked if they do the hard Brexit in two months; I expect they'll extend Article 50, fail to come up with anything that remotely resembles what the UK was promised by the Leave campaigns, cobble something together that no one likes and put it up to a second referendum. What happens then, I don't know. I wouldn't have predicted Leave squeezing out a narrow victory, but elections in '16 were weird everywhere.
Quote from: Halkenburg on January 27, 2019, 05:37:28 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that Brexit will end up being cancelled at the last moment?
No?
Anyone?
Oh well. :-P
Ideally, yes. But the cynic in me is saying there's going to be a no deal brexit with all sorts of associated chaos.
(https://i.redd.it/zmmfamhyl2c21.jpg)
Brexit might be difficult and frustrating, but it's all worth it if the UK attracts new business.
Of course Dyson invests in the UK post brexit.
Dyson: expert in all that sucks.
:p
Edit: lol, hadn't even heard of Dyson pulling out.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 29, 2019, 01:09:40 AM
Of course Dyson invests in the UK post brexit.
Dyson: expert in all that sucks.
:p
Edit: lol, hadn't even heard of Dyson pulling out.
So, this is a company based in Antwerp? So you hate companies based in Belgium?
You can always get plenty of long hard weinerschnitzels from Berlin ;-) Yes, I read they aren't a meat packer, but that isn't my point.
Quote from: Baruch on January 29, 2019, 02:48:18 AM
So, this is a company based in Antwerp? So you hate companies based in Belgium?
You can always get plenty of long hard weinerschnitzels from Berlin ;-) Yes, I read they aren't a meat packer, but that isn't my point.
I'll be sure to ask
@Halkenburg to be my supplier.
Btw, you hardly ever have a point.
Or at least you're not that good at putting it forward.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 29, 2019, 03:19:19 AM
I'll be sure to ask @Halkenburg to be my supplier.
Btw, you hardly ever have a point.
Or at least you're not that good at putting it forward.
I hoped you would share why you dislike this company so much, since it is local to you. But only if it mattered to you.
Quote from: Baruch on January 29, 2019, 06:30:50 AM
I hoped you would share why you dislike this company so much, since it is local to you. But only if it mattered to you.
I personally dislike Dyson because their prices are insane. $500 for a vacuum cleaner? Come on.
Quote from: Baruch on January 29, 2019, 06:30:50 AM
I hoped you would share why you dislike this company so much, since it is local to you. But only if it mattered to you.
It doesn't matter to me. Why would it? It's a vacuum-company.
I have a Miele, but not because I dislike Dyson or something.
You focus on the strangest things, Baruch.
Quote from: Halkenburg on January 29, 2019, 07:42:48 AM
I personally dislike Dyson because their prices are insane. $500 for a vacuum cleaner? Come on.
In the US we called those Kirby vacuum cleaners. And they were sold door to door to naive house-wives.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 29, 2019, 07:42:55 AM
It doesn't matter to me. Why would it? It's a vacuum-company.
I have a Miele, but not because I dislike Dyson or something.
You focus on the strangest things, Baruch.
You brought it up, not me. Are you afraid that with Brexit all Belgian companies will flee EU tyranny for British shores? Maybe not, since everything now made in Europe will soon be made in China.
Quote from: Baruch on January 29, 2019, 01:03:53 PM
You brought it up, not me. Are you afraid that with Brexit all Belgian companies will flee EU tyranny for British shores? Maybe not, since everything now made in Europe will soon be made in China.
?
Dyson is british.
Their Seat is moving to singapore, not london.
I mention it in jape, in response to a meme posted by another user and you ask me if i'm fixated.
Am i missing something, or is this just your attempt at being coy?
Quote from: Halkenburg on January 29, 2019, 07:42:48 AM
I personally dislike Dyson because their prices are insane. $500 for a vacuum cleaner? Come on.
personally, I prefer henry.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41cE1B7m76L.jpg)
I mite post more in this thread in the coming day's/weeks as we watch the shit slowly hit the fan.
Who was it that first came up with this whole brexit idea, anyway?
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 29, 2019, 01:34:03 PM
?
Dyson is british.
Their Seat is moving to singapore, not london.
I mention it in jape, in response to a meme posted by another user and you ask me if i'm fixated.
Am i missing something, or is this just your attempt at being coy?
Multinationals have no ... nationality. Dyson does have offices in Antwerp. If it were a British company and they wanted to expand in Britain after Brexit, then it is none of your business. Singapore? Might be the new Hong Kong that is safer than Taipei.
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 29, 2019, 04:07:26 PM
Who was it that first came up with this whole brexit idea, anyway?
Peter Wilding. He is neither pro nor anti. But he invented the meme, and it ran away from him (like the monster from Dr Frankenstein). Once opportunists go ahold of it, its success has many fathers but in failure it is an orphan ;-) Will the Remainer villagers manage to kill it? Will there be a sequel? Bride of Brexit aka Italexit?
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 29, 2019, 01:34:03 PM
?
Dyson is british.
Their Seat is moving to singapore, not london.
I mention it in jape, in response to a meme posted by another user and you ask me if i'm fixated.
Am i missing something, or is this just your attempt at being coy?
No, you're not missing anything. The only problem here is thinking Baruch might be within a cubic light year of an actual point.
Quote from: Baruch on January 29, 2019, 06:51:34 PM
Multinationals have no ... nationality.
Quote from: Baruch on January 29, 2019, 01:03:53 PM
Are you afraid that with Brexit all Belgian companies will flee EU tyranny for British shores?
Lol
Quote
Dyson does have offices in Antwerp. If it were a British company and they wanted to expand in Britain after Brexit, then it is none of your business. Singapore? Might be the new Hong Kong that is safer than Taipei.
So i am not allowed to make light of it? To formulate an opinion?
Don't ansWer that: rhetorical.
The less you know about something, and the less it is "your business",
the more you seem to talk about it, baruch.
It might be worth noting that some of the wealthier Brits supporting Brexit have moved their investments to Ireland (which would stay in the EU). https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/25/uk-banks-financial-firms-moving-ireland (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/25/uk-banks-financial-firms-moving-ireland)
They know that being financially engaged with the EU is the smart move.
Quote from: trdsf on January 30, 2019, 12:43:16 AM
No, you're not missing anything. The only problem here is thinking Baruch might be within a cubic light year of an actual point.
Baruch is not into fencing, so he avoids points.
Quote from: Cavebear on January 30, 2019, 05:40:17 AM
It might be worth noting that some of the wealthier Brits supporting Brexit have moved their investments to Ireland (which would stay in the EU). https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/25/uk-banks-financial-firms-moving-ireland (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/25/uk-banks-financial-firms-moving-ireland)
They know that being financially engaged with the EU is the smart move.
Ireland is very corrupt. That is why they suffered during the 2008 downturn. Fake accounting books.
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 30, 2019, 02:19:00 PM
Baruch is not into fencing, so he avoids points.
I prefer riding crops from my English dominatrices.
You may NOT have more porridge. Ouch!
Quote from: Baruch on January 30, 2019, 08:49:43 PM
Ireland is very corrupt. That is why they suffered during the 2008 downturn. Fake accounting books.
Tax accountants LOVE fake accounting books. Keeps them employed...
Quote from: Cavebear on February 03, 2019, 06:19:43 AM
Tax accountants LOVE fake accounting books. Keeps them employed...
Actually employed/employed ... double entry bookkeeping (because real and fake books).
45 days remaining
barring an extension, of course.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on February 12, 2019, 06:21:22 AM
45 days remaining
barring an extension, of course.
Hard to say what will happen. This is why the status quo wins most times, including when it shouldn't.
Meanwhile war brews over Venezuela. Are you ready for your first war in Europe since Kosovo? Will it be a civil war?
There is never anything civil about War ;)
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on February 12, 2019, 08:14:59 AM
There is never anything civil about War ;)
I can't help but think of an old
I'm Sorry I'll Read That Again (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27m_Sorry,_I%27ll_Read_That_Again) gag about civil war:
"Pardon me, would you mind terribly if I struck you over the head with this club?"
"Oh no, no trouble at all, do go right ahead."
"I do thank you." *WHONK*
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on February 12, 2019, 06:21:22 AM
45 days remaining
barring an extension, of course.
I put out a humorous video from GB, about one week after Brexit. Enjoy. Belgium is next ;-(
Meanwhile, I love the way the Dutch are preparing for Brexit (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47237371). With a giant Muppet. :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPkpT0DPFCY
Just a reminder for haters of GB ...
Here is one who hates Britain.
Dr. Kehinde
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anM5SnCbVU4&t=287s
There are few patriots or competent people in any generation. Labor in 1939 was supporting Stalin. Tories under Chamberlain were incompetent. Y'all got by ... by the skin of your teeth. You just had one man, who was half English, who had been a controversial failure in many things, but who ... wouldn't quit. That is what won it for you, he was the one Brit who wasn't a quitter. And he almost quit.
Barely 40 days left.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fe/c7/f5/fec7f535fc46d6b5224c44c8061d48b2.jpg)
So say you ... agents of Franco-German tyranny? You have chosen sides. Hope you enjoy your bitter croissants and schnitzel.
Regular population replacement is recurring in European history.
1. First modern Africans interbreed with and eliminate Neanderthals. Why? Jazz age guys are cool. The first modern Africans were darker skinned, but blue eyed.
2. First farmers interbreed with and eliminate hunter/gatherers. Why? Goat milkmen knock twice. First farmers were swarthy.
3. First Bronze Age people interbreed and eliminate early farmers. Why? Indo-Europeans have hot rods. First Bronze Age people were tall and blond/auburn.
How does this work? Beta males are replaced by Alpha males. 90-100% of previous male population replaced in each case above. Variable rate of previous female population replaced (Cinderella vs ugly step sisters).
So if Europeans today are mostly Betas ... then they will be replaced by the next Alpha males to come along. Just monkey business.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=990052wQywM
Quote from: Minimalist on February 17, 2019, 05:11:32 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fe/c7/f5/fec7f535fc46d6b5224c44c8061d48b2.jpg)
Needs to be slower and more torturous, with the UK declaring that there's no other feasible option with every agonizing and largely ineffective sawing motion.
Is it really entertaining to watch S&M? 50 Shades of Being European?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaBQfSAVt0s
Yes, British politics is a disaster ;-) Same as it is on this side of the Pond ;-)) Couldn't happen to a better bunch of bung holes. I listen to "reliable" British critics, fascinating stuff. The British Left (both major parties) are as daft as the American Left (again, both major parties). National Socialism is ... socialist. So is International Socialism ... the two primary varieties today. Only N Korea and China are reasonably Communist (yet another ... socialism).
Other than actual prison skin-heads, there is no Right in our countries, and none of them, as I recall, hold public office.
What will happen? Nobody knows. Watch if you don't mind flying body parts.
England has Brexit and the US has Trump. At least, here, Trump is a temporary problem...
Quote from: Cavebear on February 19, 2019, 03:06:35 PM
At least, here, Trump is a temporary problem...
Well, that's maybe a bit optimistic. I guess he can't live forever, but modern medicine can perform miracles...
The cheer here is "1.5 more years, 1.5 more years"...
Quote from: Unbeliever on February 19, 2019, 03:27:58 PM
Well, that's maybe a bit optimistic. I guess he can't live forever, but modern medicine can perform miracles...
You can be "Nixon's head in a jar", as in Futurama.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 19, 2019, 03:30:39 PM
The cheer here is "1.5 more years, 1.5 more years"...
I prefer Tide detergent .. I keep hoping the commies will come clean ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on February 19, 2019, 05:02:53 PM
You can be "Nixon's head in a jar", as in Futurama.
I'd rather
give Nixon head than
be Nixon's head! LOL
Quote from: Unbeliever on February 19, 2019, 05:06:03 PM
I'd rather give Nixon head than be Nixon's head! LOL
Eww ... zombie porn ;-(
Hey, don't knock it if you ain't tried it! LOL
So Honda said them pulling out of the UK wasn't related to brexit.
Not sure i believe it, though i can't honestly say i think it'd be the only reason.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on February 19, 2019, 07:03:54 PM
So Honda said them pulling out of the UK wasn't related to brexit.
Not sure i believe it, though i can't honestly say i think it'd be the only reason.
i think companies are complaining about "instability" ... rather than particular arrangements. So should countries simply ask the Fortune 500 before they do anything?
I hope Europe can solve Brexit. Trump here in the US is a temporary thing, but the EU is longer-lasting. I hope.
Quote from: Baruch on February 19, 2019, 09:31:35 PM
i think companies are complaining about "instability" ... rather than particular arrangements. So should countries simply ask the Fortune 500 before they do anything?
Nah, but maybe they shouldn't ActiveLy create a sphere of unstable confusion.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on February 22, 2019, 03:45:30 PM
Nah, but maybe they shouldn't ActiveLy create a sphere of unstable confusion.
But that begs the question about "stable" confusion. And I don't mean upset horses (because Baruch will ask). ;)
Quote from: Cavebear on February 22, 2019, 04:03:55 PM
But that begs the question about "stable" confusion. And I don't mean upset horses (because Baruch will ask). ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAYVIY1izho
Mr Ed vacationed in Transylvania.
Quote from: Baruch on February 22, 2019, 07:00:32 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAYVIY1izho
Mr Ed vacationed in Transylvania.
Your video copy efforts are wasted. I live in a more reality-based world.
A picture is worth a thousand words. You would prefer a thousand words from me? Really?
Quote from: Baruch on February 22, 2019, 11:42:46 PM
A picture is worth a thousand words. You would prefer a thousand words from me? Really?
Oh God. Oh god, no.
No. He didn't mean it Baruch. He didn't.
;)
I understand. Some people simply don't get classic movies ;-)
Should have posted this yesterday, but hey:
barely 29 days left!
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on March 01, 2019, 08:56:39 AM
Should have posted this yesterday, but hey:
barely 29 days left!
I'm looking forward to Daylight saving time in 2 weeks!
Quote from: Cavebear on March 01, 2019, 09:08:06 AM
I'm looking forward to Daylight saving time in 2 weeks!
Here in the UK it is on the 31st of March when the clocks go foward one hour.
Quote from: pr126 on March 01, 2019, 09:21:15 AM
Here in the UK it is on the 31st of March when the clocks go foward one hour.
There is a growing movement here to just leave it on Daylight Saving Time. I mean all time is arbitrary and it suits most of us better.
Quote from: pr126 on March 01, 2019, 09:21:15 AM
Here in the UK it is on the 31st of March when the clocks go foward one hour.
No need. Brexit is the prior Friday, so you will all be dead on Saturday. Nobody to clock in or out on Sunday.
I wish they discontinued the Daylight savings. It is such a chore to reset all your clocks in the house.
Almost every appliance has a built-in clock, Oven, microwave, central heating and of course wall clocks in every room.
Unless I change them to radio controlled wall clocks.
I have one of those already. Maybe I will buy some more.
.
Quote from: pr126 on March 01, 2019, 01:32:00 PM
I wish they discontinued the Daylight savings. It is such a chore to reset all your clocks in the house.
Almost every appliance has a built-in clock, Oven, microwave, central heating and of course wall clocks in every room.
Unless I change them to radio controlled wall clocks.
I have one of those already. Maybe I will buy some more.
.
So... Stay on the new time forever... No clock changes. And trust me, it takes a couple hours here to make the time change. I have clocks in every room and several in appliances. And I always forget about the car.
I have an "atomic" alarm clock that gets an update from the Bureau of Standards' atomic clock every time the satellite passes overhead, so I never have to worry about the time. So whenever DST rolls around I get it automatically. I've had the clock for more than 10 years, though, so I don't know how much longer it will last.
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 01, 2019, 03:22:16 PM
I have an "atomic" alarm clock that gets an update from the Bureau of Standards' atomic clock every time the satellite passes overhead, so I never have to worry about the time. So whenever DST rolls around I get it automatically. I've had the clock for more than 10 years, though, so I don't know how much longer it will last.
I have 3 clocks like that, and 1 is rather old (for a digital). I also have several regular digital clocks and they are a bit annoying. With analogs it is always an estimate; with digitals, they NEVER all agree, LOL!
Quote from: pr126 on March 01, 2019, 01:32:00 PM
I wish they discontinued the Daylight savings. It is such a chore to reset all your clocks in the house.
Almost every appliance has a built-in clock, Oven, microwave, central heating and of course wall clocks in every room.
Unless I change them to radio controlled wall clocks.
I have one of those already. Maybe I will buy some more.
.
We should all use Greenwich time, like proper colonies of the British Empire ;-) This became practical with the first naval chronometer ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHvt48S9l4w
Quote from: Cavebear on March 01, 2019, 09:08:06 AM
I'm looking forward to Daylight saving time in 2 weeks!
I loathe DST. Partly because of the time shift, mostly because I'm an astronomer and it fucks up everything. And the vast majority of people would just look at me funny if I (quite sensibly) used Coördinated Universal Time. And we barely spend a third of the year on our
actual time zone.
Call me old fashioned, but time zone noon is when the sun is within 7.5° of its zenith and we just don't need this farting around with adding and subtracting hours.
Quote from: trdsf on March 05, 2019, 07:22:58 PM
I loathe DST. Partly because of the time shift,
What a coincidence - I'm about hallway through a movie called The Time Shifters! And I was just complaining in the comments about how many convenient coincidences there are in the movie! LOL
https://howmanydaystill.com/its/brexit-6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z_aax7_QkY
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on March 06, 2019, 06:47:12 AM
https://howmanydaystill.com/its/brexit-6
Maybe WW I didn't kill enough Europeans? Mutant strain still present.
I could be on DST all year. Suits my schedule better. More evening light means more activity for me.
Quote from: Cavebear on March 07, 2019, 10:38:02 AM
I could be on DST all year. Suits my schedule better. More evening light means more activity for me.
I happen to agree. Only primitive farmers who only have candle light, need to follow sunup/sundown.
Wait, this is the SECOND time you've agreed with me today. Is this part of a plot or something?
Or did you lose a bet?
Quote from: Cavebear on March 07, 2019, 05:06:21 PM
Wait, this is the SECOND time you've agreed with me today. Is this part of a plot or something?
Or did you lose a bet?
The conspiratorial mind often projects onto others its own ways.
I'm in Arizona. We don't do DST here. So part of the year we are two hours behind the East Coast and the rest we are 3 hours behind.
But at least we never change any clocks.
https://youtu.be/ozTB3U3pRaw
Little over 17 days left.
The whole world has become a reality show.
At least it's not temptation island.
It's not much, but at least it's not rock bottom.
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 12, 2019, 05:39:12 PM
The whole world has become a reality show.
You are so right. That the whole world has become a reality show, is especially seen in the political arena. Puppet politicians who are in service of their masters had better do politics on behalf of their masters who are directing them and who brought them to their present political status...
Unfortunately the reality is this.
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 12, 2019, 05:39:12 PM
The whole world has become a reality show.
Unreality show ;-)
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on March 12, 2019, 05:52:41 PM
At least it's not temptation island.
It's not much, but at least it's not rock bottom.
Wait until GB nukes Brussels, because they don't like your sprouts anymore ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on March 12, 2019, 06:58:38 PM
Wait until GB nukes Brussels, because they don't like your sprouts anymore ;-)
But then all THE beer they'd have left is Guinness. Surely they can't be that daft.
I mean, i know: 'brexit' and all. But still.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on March 12, 2019, 07:28:13 PM
But then all THE beer they'd have left is Guinness. Surely they can't be that daft.
I mean, i know: 'brexit' and all. But still.
Do Belgians drink their beer cold, or warm like the Brits?
Cold, preferably
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on March 13, 2019, 01:17:10 AM
Cold, preferably
Redeemed then ;-) I can't see drinking beer much, but especially not cold.
I find it astonishing that May hasn't been ousted à la Maggie by now... except that I can't imagine anyone would want to have to try to clean up the mess right now, and the three Conservative factions (hard/soft/no Brexit) certainly can't possibly agree on a new leader under current conditions. That's probably the only thing keeping her in power: there's no one else for the party to coalesce around, not Boris, not Gove, not really anybody. May continues to be PM and leader of the Tories because there's no Plan B.
And I can't imagine why Corbyn is calling for a general election considering the shambles his party is in. Any general election is going to almost certainly lead to another hung parliament, and Bob only knows what kind of cobbled together coalition would emerge from that. I can't imagine the Conservatives gaining seats, but neither can I imagine Labour gaining enough for a majority. What'd probably come out of that is some sort of Labour/LibDem/SNP chimera which on the plus side would probably mean a(nother) referendum on the real Brexit (as opposed to the unicorn promised by Leave), and maybe another Scottish independence referendum, but as much as I wish Corbyn had his shit together, he doesn't. Once Brexit is dealt with one way or another, I can't see his premiership being much less shambolic than May's.
Funny thing is even so... I'd trade the Orange Disaster Area and his cadre of mindless minions for that. :D
Quote from: trdsf on March 14, 2019, 12:19:54 AM
I find it astonishing that May hasn't been ousted à la Maggie by now... except that I can't imagine anyone would want to have to try to clean up the mess right now, and the three Conservative factions (hard/soft/no Brexit) certainly can't possibly agree on a new leader under current conditions. That's probably the only thing keeping her in power: there's no one else for the party to coalesce around, not Boris, not Gove, not really anybody. May continues to be PM and leader of the Tories because there's no Plan B.
And I can't imagine why Corbyn is calling for a general election considering the shambles his party is in. Any general election is going to almost certainly lead to another hung parliament, and Bob only knows what kind of cobbled together coalition would emerge from that. I can't imagine the Conservatives gaining seats, but neither can I imagine Labour gaining enough for a majority. What'd probably come out of that is some sort of Labour/LibDem/SNP chimera which on the plus side would probably mean a(nother) referendum on the real Brexit (as opposed to the unicorn promised by Leave), and maybe another Scottish independence referendum, but as much as I wish Corbyn had his shit together, he doesn't. Once Brexit is dealt with one way or another, I can't see his premiership being much less shambolic than May's.
Funny thing is even so... I'd trade the Orange Disaster Area and his cadre of mindless minions for that. :D
They can't oust her legally. When they failed at a no-confidence vote in January, she is protected from ouster, by Parliament, for 12 months, a kind of timeout. That is part of the political reform PM Cameron introduced ... that and no other event happening, they don't have to call for an general election for 5 years (after 2017) either. Other failing PMs have simply resigned, as Cameron did. But this is part of Chancellor Merkel's plan. PM May is a zombie PM, and they knew it, when they deliberately failed the no-confidence vote in January.
I like British politics better than the US kind too, but Cameron's changes have ruined that. Under the old rules, the leading party could toss out the PM at any time for any reason. Americans don't realize that Churchill wasn't elected PM, until 1951. His original term, during WW II, was a party appointment, the public had nothing to do with it. And the Tories nearly tossed him back out after only a few weeks in office, that first time (see Darkest Hour).
GB should simply vote to double down as a German slave state at this point.
May has the job in Britain for the same reason McConnell has the Senate leadership job here. No one else who wants it could get it.
I also find myself wondering if this whole mess will mean the recovery of the LibDems in the next election, at least in areas that voted Remain. I can't imagine Remain voters being very happy with either Labour or the Conservatives right now.
Neither can I imagine Leave voters being happy with the two main parties, but I don't know if that's going to translate into unenthusiastic turnout or a move towards UKIP.
Quote from: trdsf on March 14, 2019, 01:24:54 PM
I also find myself wondering if this whole mess will mean the recovery of the LibDems in the next election, at least in areas that voted Remain. I can't imagine Remain voters being very happy with either Labour or the Conservatives right now.
Neither can I imagine Leave voters being happy with the two main parties, but I don't know if that's going to translate into unenthusiastic turnout or a move towards UKIP.
Oija all you want. We no nothing until March 30, and maybe then nothing also. But delaying past March 29 will piss off a lot of people. Hopefully not violently. But a good Yellow Vest revolt would be interesting.
Britain voted for a delay and against a second referendum.
But as long as it is just a sought after extension and it isn't (yet) agreed upon by every single one EU nation:
The deadline is still 15 days.
For now.
It isn't over until it is over. But look at it clearly. Someone is making money off of this current situation. The betting in GB and the financial markets (more crooked gambling). They have only decided that there is more money to be made from the chaos (volatility) of the Brexit/non-Brexit than a clear result either way ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on March 15, 2019, 05:57:52 AM
It isn't over until it is over. But look at it clearly. Someone is making money off of this current situation. The betting in GB and the financial markets (more crooked gambling). They have only decided that there is more money to be made from the chaos (volatility) of the Brexit/non-Brexit than a clear result either way ;-)
Chaos theory vs game theory
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on March 15, 2019, 06:55:57 AM
Chaos theory vs game theory
Not either/or. Chaos capitalism works great in betting and finance. Money can't be made, unless there is volatility. Sometimes you have to create volatility.
See say, Brexit is really about The City (of London) the oldest multinational corporation.
Quote from: trdsf on March 14, 2019, 01:24:54 PM
I also find myself wondering if this whole mess will mean the recovery of the LibDems in the next election, at least in areas that voted Remain. I can't imagine Remain voters being very happy with either Labour or the Conservatives right now.
Neither can I imagine Leave voters being happy with the two main parties, but I don't know if that's going to translate into unenthusiastic turnout or a move towards UKIP.
the lib dems haven't had any power or influence in the uk since the early 1900s. They've been riding off the back of the other two parties and even when in a coalition they were the nobodies just used to raise the seating for the Conservatives, which is so fucking funny considering a liberal party joined with a conservative one whos values were dynamically opposed.
this was also when I stopped voting, since back then I believed in the lib dems liberal principles until they joined hands with the party I'd never vote for, still believing that old bs about 'even if your party doesn't win, its the fact you voted for someone that counts'. Ha!
Quote from: Minimalist on February 17, 2019, 05:11:32 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fe/c7/f5/fec7f535fc46d6b5224c44c8061d48b2.jpg)
Ouch. OK I laughed a little.
So how about Finland and now Denmark collapsing? How is that fly in the post-modernist ointment feeling now? It isn't just France, Italy, Catalonia ...
The Wee Ginger Dug Knows.
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/
Quote from: Green Bottle on March 18, 2019, 04:20:38 PM
The Wee Ginger Dug Knows.
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/
Yea, just saw this.
https://youtu.be/Tb_M8-twOFU
https://youtu.be/5FNey_iUrl8
God damn, I've become a boring sod, finding joy and laughter in Bercow's comebacks so much.
Quote from: Green Bottle on March 18, 2019, 04:20:38 PM
The Wee Ginger Dug Knows.
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/
The Celts; Scots, Irish, Welsh have always sided with France. The last 200 years are exceptional in that long history. But that was a Catholic monarchial France. Ready for no-go ban-luis, yellow-jackets, and Robespierre?
P.S.
11 days left
https://youtu.be/EY7EIZl4raY
https://youtu.be/H4v7wddN-Wg
https://youtu.be/WVqg3Oz0KbI
https://youtu.be/DIOslQyT7aA
Jeez, if John Bercow ever gets laryngitis that whole place will be absolute chaos!
I think Bercow would look better if he wore one of those wigs they used to wear across the pond. He looks like he needs some judicious use of a comb.
Quote from: Baruch on March 18, 2019, 07:01:21 PM
The Celts; Scots, Irish, Welsh have always sided with France. The last 200 years are exceptional in that long history. But that was a Catholic monarchial France. Ready for no-go ban-luis, yellow-jackets, and Robespierre?
Baruch, whats that got to do wi the tories being the biggest shower of fkn incompetents in the history of politics? And listen, Scotland and France are pals, but i would'nt say we always ''side, wi them, the government they have now is nearly as bad as the fkn tories at how they treat thier people. :beer:
Quote from: Green Bottle on March 19, 2019, 04:57:16 PM
Baruch, whats that got to do wi the tories being the biggest shower of fkn incompetents in the history of politics? And listen, Scotland and France are pals, but i would'nt say we always ''side, wi them, the government they have now is nearly as bad as the fkn tories at how they treat thier people. :beer:
Agreed. Macron is micron ;-) And his wife is his grandmother.
Being among other things ... English/Irish/Welsh/Scottish ... my loyalties are very divided. I am glad to be American, so I don't have to draw and quarter myself!
I was referring to Scott-exit of course, which in 2.0 version is tied to Brexit, because SNP wants to stay in the EU, and RoI wants NI as their punching bag. My Welsh part says, we are keeping our own language, you Irish/Scottish/Scotch-Irish gits. My English part says, without the City of London, y'all ain't gettin' any loans or mortgages anymore ... go back to burning peat in your hovels.
Extension will be discussed tomorrow.
May seems to want till the 30th of june.
Tusk wants to help argue, but to mid of may. (Confusing, i know.)
But all Union states will have to agree, even if it is agreed upon between these two till when it would last.
So for now: 10 days left.
Edit:
https://youtu.be/ZUb90eRsWhQ
Not enough popcorn in the world.
No extension without a deal. And the speaker might not even allow the deal to be voted on again. Shit's happening fast, next few days are going to be interesting.
Guess we're going into overtime!
New deadlines 12th april or 22th of may.
(http://i66.tinypic.com/28s93xg.jpg)
I would rather be a British laughing stock, than a Continental labor camp victim.
Quote from: Baruch on March 22, 2019, 07:45:52 PM
I would rather be a British laughing stock, than a Continental labor camp victim.
Well, I guess we can work on the British-ness bit.
But you're already well on your way for your goal.
;)
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on March 22, 2019, 08:24:31 PM
Well, I guess we can work on the British-ness bit.
But you're already well on your way for your goal.
;)
Britain invented the concentration camp during the Boer War ... so you might not have gotten my irony.
Quote from: Baruch on March 22, 2019, 08:26:08 PM
Britain invented the concentration camp during the Boer War ... so you might not have gotten my irony.
Nope. Thought you meant that Europe is being held hostage under germany's tyranny. Maybe you should've said colonial labour camp victim instead?
Regardless: i feel my Joke still works.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on March 23, 2019, 03:35:35 AM
Nope. Thought you meant that Europe is being held hostage under germany's tyranny. Maybe you should've said colonial labour camp victim instead?
Regardless: i feel my Joke still works.
Germany? A poor imitation of Napoleonic France (and King Louis' France before that). In a French concentration camp, you will be forced to make baguettes, in a German concentration camp, you will be forced to make strudel. In a Polish concentration camp (and Poland circa 1939 was fascist) you will get a Kielbasa where it hurts!
What is the penalty of being under English tyranny? Bad teeth ;-)
And in other Brexit news, Uri Geller is still a twit (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/uri-geller-tells-theresa-may-he-will-stop-brexit-telepathically-1.3836641).
Quote from: trdsf on March 23, 2019, 07:58:52 AM
And in other Brexit news, Uri Geller is still a twit (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/uri-geller-tells-theresa-may-he-will-stop-brexit-telepathically-1.3836641).
Did you catch Uri bending your spoons again? ;-)
Source: https://www.hln.be/nieuws/buitenland/verhofstadt-tevreden-dat-brits-parlement-brexit-in-handen-neemt-het-is-nu-mogelijk-om-over-de-partijgrenzen-heen-samen-te-werken~ad6767aa/
Verhofstadt glad that British Parliament takes control of Brexit: "It is now possible to work together beyond party-borders"
The British MP's must double down on their enhanced grip on the brexit-proces to look for sollutions to the impasse, across party borders. So spoke the brexit-coördinator from the European Parliament Guy Verhofstadt in reaction the latest developments in Westminster.
The British Parliament rounded itself behind an amendment last night, which clears the road for them to hold votes on a selection of alternatives to the deal that PM Theresa May negotiated regarding to the British departure from the European Union. A thirty-odd conservative party members of May's supported the amendment, along with the socialist opposition party Labour.
"I am happy that the parliament approved of the Letwin's amendement and took control of the situation. It is now possible to work beyond party-borders towards a solution which can lead to an upgrade of the political declaration regarding future relations. We've been calling for that, for a while now", thusly responded Verhofstadt today.
The British parliament rejected May's deal twice already. Like other European policymakers Verhofstadt concluded that the British had multiple times signaled what they didn't want, but that there has still been not a single political majority to rise and indicate what the country does want. "I hope this will lead to a solution backed by the support of the majority", so said the former prime minister.
The MP's will probably vote tomorrow on a few options, like a second referendum, staying in the European customs Union, etc. May already declared that the government does not have to feel tied to the results of these indicative votes. The Prime Minister still bullheadedly looks for support for a third vote on the divorce-agreement she negotiated with the Europeans.
If May's deal gets sanctioned after all, than the British will leave the European Union on the 22nd of May. If the deal does not get approved this week, the British must decide before the 12th of april if they choose for a long delay, and thus participate in the European elections at the end of May. If they don't , a hard brexit without a deal nor transition period, will become inevitable by midnight, 12th of april.
“As much as I admire you, I will stop you telepathically from doing this â€" and believe me I am capable of executing it."
It's the believing him part that I have a hard time with. I wonder just how many people actually do believe him? I would hope the answer to that would be "none," but I know better.
https://youtu.be/hxe3uLlneYg
Democracy ... government by committee.
Camel ... horse by committee.
I think that it is time, to end monarchies and papacies, and put all of Western Europe under Putin.
The problem England faces is that there IS no majority opinion of how to relate to "The Rest Of Europe". They can't really like the French, and they can't really like the Germans, so what are they going to do? And then there is the Irish border. Gee, maybe there should be a (dare I suggest the idea) a war...
In playing Risk, the one place where everyone loses is Europe. There is a reason for that.
Britain has a long history of "liking" whoever it is in their best interest to like at any given time. With that backdrop, I can't think of a single reason why Europe should trust Britain.
Quote from: Minimalist on March 29, 2019, 04:50:09 PM
Britain has a long history of "liking" whoever it is in their best interest to like at any given time. With that backdrop, I can't think of a single reason why Europe should trust Britain.
But then why doesn't Brittain like Europe?
They're, imho, not going to do as Well outside THE Union as theywill inside.
Aah Well, we'll see
(http://i66.tinypic.com/ab6rev.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/10d5uoo.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/35k4qo3.jpg)
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2i8i3q0.jpg)
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on March 29, 2019, 05:12:11 PM
But then why doesn't Brittain like Europe?
They're, imho, not going to do as Well outside THE Union as theywill inside.
Aah Well, we'll see
Not British. But from an American perspective ... the dominance of Merkel and Macron, over the unelected European Council, and the toothlessness of the European Parliament, doesn't look like a good combination for anyone.
Separately, as an American, my "history of Europe" says stay the hell away from you people.
What is "doing well" mean? They have spread their people all over the EU, and EU people are all over GB. A Gordian Knot. Requires an Alexander. Vote for Baby Hitler or Baby Napoleon next time, they knew what they were doing. You have to break a few eggs to make a soufflé. There are perfectly good reasons why Europe is the arm pit of Eurasia.
The Brits just need to bring back the Ministry of Silly Walks - that'll sort them out!
Quote from: Baruch on March 29, 2019, 07:22:57 PM
Not British. But from an American perspective ... the dominance of Merkel and Macron, over the unelected European Council, and the toothlessness of the European Parliament, doesn't look like a good combination for anyone.
Separately, as an American, my "history of Europe" says stay the hell away from you people.
What is "doing well" mean? They have spread their people all over the EU, and EU people are all over GB. A Gordian Knot. Requires an Alexander. Vote for Baby Hitler or Baby Napoleon next time, they knew what they were doing. You have to break a few eggs to make a soufflé. There are perfectly good reasons why Europe is the arm pit of Eurasia.
'doing well' intended in economic terms.
And breaking a few eggs? Brexit isn't making a soufflé, it is egging both your neighbour's and your own house. (And even saving the rotten ones for your own.)
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on March 29, 2019, 08:25:26 PM
'doing well' intended in economic terms.
And breaking a few eggs? Brexit isn't making a soufflé, it is egging both your neighbour's and your own house. (And even saving the rotten ones for your own.)
They can do better in Britain simply joining China, like Italy is trying to do. Germany is finished.
Y'all should just admit it, you hate each other.
Quote from: Baruch on March 30, 2019, 12:30:31 AM
They can do better in Britain simply joining China, like Italy is trying to do. Germany is finished.
Y'all should just admit it, you hate each other.
Brittain doesn't seem to like Europe much. At least i get that feeling.
THE rest of THE Union is getting along Well, for THE most part. You are either trying to be funny, or you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
Unlike Brittain, imho, we understand what we are. What THE EU is. A collection of similar but different sovereign democracies that understood, due to our geographical localisation, THE need for uniting on laws partaking to migration, trade and product quality to create THE greatest single market. We don't need european parliament to sit in a circle, jerk one another off and sing cumbaya for that. We just need to work together to make it work.
Be on equal footing with China, be their dominantor or be their bitch: it won't change who your neighbours are.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on March 30, 2019, 04:01:19 AM
Brittain doesn't seem to like Europe much. At least i get that feeling.
THE rest of THE Union is getting along Well, for THE most part. You are either trying to be funny, or you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
Unlike Brittain, imho, we understand what we are. What THE EU is. A collection of similar but different sovereign democracies that understood, due to our geographical localisation, THE need for uniting on laws partaking to migration, trade and product quality to create THE greatest single market. We don't need european parliament to sit in a circle, jerk one another off and sing cumbaya for that. We just need to work together to make it work.
Be on equal footing with China, be their dominantor or be their bitch: it won't change who your neighbours are.
I wish you well, I wish everyone well. But most people will get coal in their Christmas stocking. Belgium failed earlier, have you glued it back together yet? Greece is under a German jack-boot, Denmark is failing, Finland is failing, Catalonia is splitting, France is rioting, Germany is under Muslim rule, Italy is trying to Italexit to China. Thousands of Chinese already work in Italy as expatriate slave labor:
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-21350013 ... over 300,000 Chinese in Italy now.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47679760
Compare the mercantilist (net exporter) Germany vs China. China wants to be #1. They understand that is how the British and other empires operated (old style) with gross import of raw materials and net export of finished goods? Have you figured out the Belgian Congo yet?
Europe wants to be a socialist paradise like Venezuela ... so will you be ruled by Putin or by Xi? Of course EUSR, Russia and China can be good comrades. Let the Chinese enjoy the automobile dream, Europeans can live with bicycles and Mao jackets. Just don't call it endless austerity.
Quote from: Baruch on March 30, 2019, 07:21:29 AM
I wish you well, I wish everyone well. But most people will get coal in their Christmas stocking. Belgium failed earlier, have you glued it back together yet? Greece is under a German jack-boot, Denmark is failing, Finland is failing, Catalonia is splitting, France is rioting, Germany is under Muslim rule, Italy is trying to Italexit to China. Thousands of Chinese already work in Italy as expatriate slave labor:
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-21350013 ... over 300,000 Chinese in Italy now.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47679760
Compare the mercantilist (net exporter) Germany vs China. China wants to be #1. They understand that is how the British and other empires operated (old style) with gross import of raw materials and net export of finished goods? Have you figured out the Belgian Congo yet?
Europe wants to be a socialist paradise like Venezuela ... so will you be ruled by Putin or by Xi? Of course EUSR, Russia and China can be good comrades. Let the Chinese enjoy the automobile dream, Europeans can live with bicycles and Mao jackets. Just don't call it endless austerity.
I imagine you standing on the corner of a street wearing a sandwich-board saying 'the end is nigh!', right now :D
Word of advice though, all your other batshit questions and projections aside, Belgium has no need for glue. It's as strong as it ever was, and unbroken.
We are divided, yes. That is our nature. But that is also our strength. Because we don't know how to do much the best, but realizing how fictional and artificial our country actually is, has equiped us to be some of the best compromisers in the world. And what is economics and politics without that? And when you get down to it, what country isn't artificial? We just don't have any illusions on the matter.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on March 30, 2019, 08:29:59 AM
I imagine you standing on the corner of a street wearing a sandwich-board saying 'the end is nigh!', right now :D
Word of advice though, all your other batshit questions and projections aside, Belgium has no need for glue. It's as strong as it ever was, and unbroken.
We are divided, yes. That is our nature. But that is also our strength. Because we don't know how to do much the best, but realizing how fictional and artificial our country actually is, has equiped us to be some of the best compromisers in the world. And what is economics and politics without that? And when you get down to it, what country isn't artificial? We just don't have any illusions on the matter.
You know the facts on the ground. But being close to the ground, you can't see the big picture from 10,000 meters up ;-) The greatest threat to the EU, is from the EU ...
Princess Leia Organa: "The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." The Dao that is dictated from Brussels, isn't the true Dao.
Belgium in 1914 was strong, in 1940 not so much. How will you stand against the limitless armies of Emperor Xi?
Quote from: Baruch on March 30, 2019, 11:55:45 AM
You know the facts on the ground. But being close to the ground, you can't see the big picture from 10,000 meters up ;-) The greatest threat to the EU, is from the EU ...
Princess Leia Organa: "The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." The Dao that is dictated from Brussels, isn't the true Dao.
Belgium in 1914 was strong, in 1940 not so much. How will you stand against the limitless armies of Emperor Xi?
Probably by compromising.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on March 30, 2019, 01:21:29 PM
Probably by compromising.
Yes, you will make tasty meal. Round eye on stick ;-) We should all compromise, just to show we are harmless.
Compromise, Emperor Xi style ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5S2cc8ZNTo
(http://i65.tinypic.com/2nsz8yw.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKJlQmq1S1M
god works as good advertising slogan
"Naked environmental protesters flood House of Commons as MPs debate Brexit" ... I think all members of Parliament should debate naked, that way nobody can say they are hiding anything. Famously, Churchill, on a visit to the WH, was caught naked coming out of the bath, by a "lack of situational awareness" FDR. Churchill said pretty much the same thing.
Quote from: Green Bottle on March 29, 2019, 05:27:35 PM
(http://i66.tinypic.com/ab6rev.jpg)
Nothing like a good flow chart to makes things clear! I LOVE flow charts...
Quote from: Green Bottle on March 31, 2019, 01:20:10 PM
"Choose Something" is right. The worst thing the Brits can do is decide nothing. Stay or Go, Negotiate one thing or another, deciding not to decide is the worst possible choice.
I'll make a deal. You take Trump, and the US will negotiate you out of the EU...
https://youtu.be/6SmibRvRelg
oh Nick, Nick don't go come on
Quote from: Cavebear on April 02, 2019, 05:10:28 AM
"Choose Something" is right. The worst thing the Brits can do is decide nothing. Stay or Go, Negotiate one thing or another, deciding not to decide is the worst possible choice.
I'll make a deal. You take Trump, and the US will negotiate you out of the EU...
Yes, a decision would be best. But politicians are in the business of avoiding responsibility ...
Was the Sun clip from Friday? On Monday the cabinet was working on reducing the list to the top 4, to be voted on Tuesday (today). On Wednesday, the PM will decide if she will take up the hopefully majority Parliamentary deal, to present to the EU. This is likely to be, a request for a long extension, which has already been rejected by the EU. The EU council will meet in special session on April 10. For now April 12 is the new No-deal Brexit date.
https://youtu.be/g1gWV8NaOu0
https://youtu.be/l3NKx_hjUdE
And thus the greatest political comedy of the 21st century continues.
Churchill will have the last laugh. When he died the last Englishman died ;-( As it was, the Parliament of 1940 would have lost GB to Nazi Germany, except for him. Same tossers now as back then. I can see a burlesque Hitler-in-Bunker video coming soon, with Hitler losing his cool over how pointless it is to negotiation with the English (which is what he wanted, so he could immediately focus on the Soviet Union).
Not quite there yet ... need another two weeks of helpless flailing about?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJWUmSbt0Ms
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2lcbpes.jpg)
You have seen Outlander too many times, eh?
(http://i68.tinypic.com/wgx3sh.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/9h2n1h.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/2lnuumg.jpg)
I sometimes wonder how this whole "Brexit" idea happened. It makes little sense. But we have Trump, so I guess all moronic things are possible...
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2019, 05:28:34 AM
I sometimes wonder how this whole "Brexit" idea happened. It makes little sense. But we have Trump, so I guess all moronic things are possible...
Summary ... last GB PM ... Cameron, thought he would be clever, to put out a plebiscite on Scottish Independence and on GB leaving the EU. Greece tried the same thing. With those as bait for the proponents of each (and proponents have been going on and on for decades), a vote for Scotland to stay in GB and GB to stay in the EU would neuter the proponents of each. It was a stupid move, to shore up Cameron's reputation as a political genius, not! I personally oppose plebiscites as a method, even the referendums that happen in US states. So Cameron squeaked by on the Scottish Independence vote, and failed by a nose on the Brexit vote. Oops! In Greece, the PM there simply ignored the result of the plebiscite (leave EU) and sacked his finance minister (Varoufakis).
And with Scottish politicians (along with most London residents) determined to stay in the EU, the success of the Leavers caused the whole Scottish Independence thing to come back ... along with N Ireland (reunification with R of Ireland) and Wales Independence. Wales hasn't been independent for over 400 years. PM Cameron immediately resigned (but PM May hasn't done the same even though her "deal" has mostly been rejected). It is a Trump thing, in that it is rural places and small towns that want to leave the EU ... just as only "flyover country" aka not E or W urban coastline, support Trump. For now, conspiracy theories rage. Namely that PM May has repeatedly said even a "no deal" Brexit would be allowed, and Parliament has said the same thing, and the General Election of 2017 said the same thing.
But now that they have the gun to their heads, the PM and Parliament, don't agree on the "leave" treaty that the PM negotiated, and went back on all their promises, in law, to leave the EU on March 29. They changed the law, and keep changing it, to make it legal to not "no deal" Brexit. This could go on forever if the EU allows it. PM May already got one extension, now she wants a further one ... but the EU and Parliament have to agree (but don't have to). Since her current "Brexit deal" hasn't been approved, the current law says that "no deal" Brexit happens in 6 more days (April 12). Wrangling continues this week, and a final emergency summit of the EU happens on April 10.
Quote from: Baruch on April 07, 2019, 09:27:41 AM
Summary ... last GB PM ... Cameron, thought he would be clever, to put out a plebiscite on Scottish Independence and on GB leaving the EU. Greece tried the same thing. With those as bait for the proponents of each (and proponents have been going on and on for decades), a vote for Scotland to stay in GB and GB to stay in the EU would neuter the proponents of each. It was a stupid move, to shore up Cameron's reputation as a political genius, not! I personally oppose plebiscites as a method, even the referendums that happen in US states. So Cameron squeaked by on the Scottish Independence vote, and failed by a nose on the Brexit vote. Oops! In Greece, the PM there simply ignored the result of the plebiscite (leave EU) and sacked his finance minister (Varoufakis).
And with Scottish politicians (along with most London residents) determined to stay in the EU, the success of the Leavers caused the whole Scottish Independence thing to come back ... along with N Ireland (reunification with R of Ireland) and Wales Independence. Wales hasn't been independent for over 400 years. PM Cameron immediately resigned (but PM May hasn't done the same even though her "deal" has mostly been rejected). It is a Trump thing, in that it is rural places and small towns that want to leave the EU ... just as only "flyover country" aka not E or W urban coastline, support Trump. For now, conspiracy theories rage. Namely that PM May has repeatedly said even a "no deal" Brexit would be allowed, and Parliament has said the same thing, and the General Election of 2017 said the same thing.
But now that they have the gun to their heads, the PM and Parliament, don't agree on the "leave" treaty that the PM negotiated, and went back on all their promises, in law, to leave the EU on March 29. They changed the law, and keep changing it, to make it legal to not "no deal" Brexit. This could go on forever if the EU allows it. PM May already got one extension, now she wants a further one ... but the EU and Parliament have to agree (but don't have to). Since her current "Brexit deal" hasn't been approved, the current law says that "no deal" Brexit happens in 6 more days (April 12). Wrangling continues this week, and a final emergency summit of the EU happens on April 10.
A better summary than I could. Tips Hat!
I tried to keep out the conspiracy theory, and the story isn't over until it is over.
Quote from: Baruch on April 07, 2019, 11:59:37 AM
I tried to keep out the conspiracy theory, and the story isn't over until it is over.
Wise avoidance about the conspiracy theories; they are seldom right.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2019, 12:07:24 PM
Wise avoidance about the conspiracy theories; they are seldom right.
Until they come out as the Pentagon Papers ;-( May LBJ and Westmorland rot.
Quote from: Baruch on April 07, 2019, 12:16:38 PM
Until they come out as the Pentagon Papers ;-( May LBJ and Westmorland rot.
Well, they probably are. Unless embalmed... Have you ever watched 'Life After People'?
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2019, 02:22:01 PM
Well, they probably are. Unless embalmed... Have you ever watched 'Life After People'?
Heard of it. As a humanist, it would depress me. Though I support properly conserved natural environments (see Teddy Roosevelt). Unfortunately humans want to exploit every square inch of the planet.
https://youtu.be/i9EQN-6v43I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptfmAY6M6aA
I think they were channeling Monty Python's bit about "What have the Romans ever done for us?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvPbj9NX0zc
Quote from: Baruch on April 07, 2019, 12:16:38 PM
Until they come out as the Pentagon Papers ;-( May LBJ and Westmorland rot.
Don't forget that Nixon conspired with S. Vietnam to sabotage the Paris Peace talks to win the 1968 election.
Quote from: Minimalist on April 09, 2019, 06:43:25 PM
Don't forget that Nixon conspired with S. Vietnam to sabotage the Paris Peace talks to win the 1968 election.
And Ronald Reagan conspired with Iran to hold the hostages until after he was elected. Damned Republicans know they can't win an election without cheating.
Who thinks there will be another delay passed today? I do.
Starting to show our incompetence next to that of the house of commons.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on April 07, 2019, 05:41:21 PM
https://youtu.be/i9EQN-6v43I
Bercow has been fascinating to watch through the last several months, especially in the last month or two. I don't know exactly how I feel about him, but he's definitely been fascinating to watch.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on April 10, 2019, 01:40:26 AM
Who thinks there will be another delay passed today? I do.
Starting to show our incompetence next to that of the house of commons.
You want the 39 billions Euros. You will have to put up with the Monty Python country, to get that money.
Quote from: trdsf on April 10, 2019, 02:43:22 AM
Bercow has been fascinating to watch through the last several months, especially in the last month or two. I don't know exactly how I feel about him, but he's definitely been fascinating to watch.
For a partial member, as all speakers are chosen from within the body of mp's, I find him remarkably impartial and fair in his role as the speaker.
Also his views have grown a lot more moderate over the years, as I understand it. And his survival of the attempted coup by Cameron years prior was a testimony to his fair ruling, IMHO. (As I understand it. I'm no expert on British politics.)
Lol, this showed up in my suggested videos:
https://youtu.be/L9uj2GY1MHQ
"EU, UK Agree To Six-Month Brexit Delay As Tory 'Spartans' Demand May Resign" ... UK agrees to become Soylent Union Jack
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on April 10, 2019, 04:57:24 AM
For a partial member, as all speakers are chosen from within the body of mp's, I find him remarkably impartial and fair in his role as the speaker.
Also his views have grown a lot more moderate over the years, as I understand it. And his survival of the attempted coup by Cameron years prior was a testimony to his fair ruling, IMHO. (As I understand it. I'm no expert on British politics.)
I get the feeling that he considers the Parliament as an institution to be a superior body to whichever government happens to currently be in office. Which is a good way to piss off whichever government happens to currently be in office, and probably not a bad perspective for a Speaker.
The new 31st of october deadline... there has to be something poetic about halloween being the new deadline.
But is it the new deadline? Will it shift again? Will it be sooner? Dissapear entirely?
Who knows.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on April 11, 2019, 06:56:03 AM
The new 31st of october deadline... there has to be something poetic about halloween being the new deadline.
But is it the new deadline? Will it shift again? Will it be sooner? Dissapear entirely?
Who knows.
There is also a June 1 deadline for British Parliament to accept this new framework (including participating in European Parliament)
No renegotiation of the withdraws terms, it is May's Brexit or none.
British government and British representatives at the European Parliament are expected to not interfere with any EU business/budget ... something Farage swears to do if elected again as an MEP.
A progress report is due in June from May to the EU.
Why Brexit or no Brexit, the existing EU economy must be reformed in order to continue ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jec9rBFqcwc
I think they jumped to category 6. It seems to me that there is a deliberate attempt of generating tabloid rumours to change the daily agenda. Like palace centered usual stuff. I don't think it would work, but if they manage to create a full blown scandal, that means making a new 'diana' from the white, English one. That could work for another 20 years. Let's hope this one will survive. :pp
Quote from: drunkenshoe on April 11, 2019, 12:46:35 PM
I think they jumped to category 6. It seems to me that there is a deliberate attempt of generating tabloid rumours to change the daily agenda. Like palace centered usual stuff. I don't think it would work, but if they manage to create a full blown scandal, that means making a new 'diana' from the white, English one. That could work for another 20 years. Let's hope this one will survive. :pp
The extreme elements in Britain are a different flavor from the US extreme elements. People are starting to call for a monarchial absolutism, the abolishment of the monarchy, abolishment of Parliament (starting now with House of Commons, not just House of Lords), mass demonstrations by Brexiteers against Parliament, a military coup, to secession driven civil war (R of Ireland + N Ireland) or (Scotland vs Britain).
There has been great effort to maintain the gold transfer from the rest of the world thru Zurich to Hong Kong onto PRC and Russia (they want to return to gold standard) and the Rothschilds/City of London/Tax dodgers/Money launderers are working overtime the last several years ... to establish a more diversified Black Market hegemony. Basically a controlled implosion of GB ... that has been planned and hedged financially by the usual criminals.
If they start seeing Bain Capital/Mitt Romney or Joe Biden (Ukraine Maiden Coup) then it is past time to get out to your Cayman Islands hide-away.
Almost nobody expects that Brexit will happen in any substantial form at this time, at best in name-only. Depends on what 17 million potential angry protestors do. EU doesn't mind, they get an extra 1 billion Euros per month the longer the delay goes, on top of the 39 billion Euros already promised.
Quote from: Baruch on April 07, 2019, 04:47:08 PM
Heard of it. As a humanist, it would depress me. Though I support properly conserved natural environments (see Teddy Roosevelt). Unfortunately humans want to exploit every square inch of the planet.
You should watch it.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 14, 2019, 01:14:53 AM
You should watch it.
I don't consider that humans should (vs are) in opposition to proper nature conservation. But I prefer humans over nature, as many here are opposite to that. I don't hate nature, even if it bugs me (sarc).
(http://i68.tinypic.com/15h7hl.jpg)
Quote from: Baruch on April 14, 2019, 05:28:35 AM
I don't consider that humans should (vs are) in opposition to proper nature conservation. But I prefer humans over nature, as many here are opposite to that. I don't hate nature, even if it bugs me (sarc).
I'm glad I won't be around for 2060 and beyond. Its going to suck living on Earth then. We better get off.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 18, 2019, 09:32:46 AM
I'm glad I won't be around for 2060 and beyond. Its going to suck living on Earth then. We better get off.
Why? So we can F*K up another planet?
Quote from: Baruch on April 18, 2019, 10:19:10 AM
Why? So we can F*K up another planet?
Yes. And then another and another and another. What do the deer do when they eat all the plants in one yard? What to the wolves do when they eat all the deer in a woods? Etc.
Ya wanna move the planet, kid? (yes)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2zqfzhu.jpg)
I meant to follow up on the council elections in the UK last Thursday and didn't get around to it until today.
Very, very interesting.
Disastrous for the Tories, only a little worse than break-even for Labour (unfortunately for them coming off disastrous results last time around), cataclysmic for UKIP, and positively stellar for the LibDems and Greens, who ran unabashedly pro-Europe anti-Brexit campaigns. I can't wait to see how the MEP elections go later this month.
Michael Gove, who has one of the three most punchable faces in UK politics (Farage and Rees-Mogg having the other two) is desperately trying to spin this utter devastation as a sign that they need to get on with Brexit. Which if it were, would have meant UKIP should've had the best night of them all, and instead they were nearly wiped out. But in Gove-world, apparently giving the pro-EU parties the best results is how Brexiteers express frustration...
I can offer a more sensible explanation: May has glued the Conservatives to a Brexit agreement that no one wants, including a significant minority of the Conservatives. Corbyn and Labour have not offered any sort of coherent alternative one way or the other, or (even worse) have tried to have it both ways, alternately sounding like they want to offer Brexit, or they want to offer at least another referendum. The LibDems and the Greens have at least been clear (at the national level, anyway) where they stand, especially as Brexit itself becomes more unpopular an idea (or has been made more unpopular by the incompetence of May and her revolving-door cabinet).
Conservatives and Labor can't allow any meaningful Brexit, they have their orders from Stazi HQ in Berlin …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoLsEN-0thI
I bet Britain never actually leaves the EU. Everyone in Europe is too frightened at the possibility.
Quote from: Cavebear on May 10, 2019, 02:17:06 AM
I bet Britain never actually leaves the EU. Everyone in Europe is too frightened at the possibility.
Everybody is trying to cover themselves so they can blame someone else for the recession and mess when and if they finally do leave.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on May 10, 2019, 03:47:58 AM
Everybody is trying to cover themselves so they can blame someone else for the recession and mess when and if they finally do leave.
Not just GB. Catalonia, Italy, Greece, Poland, Hungary. France may only want to replace Macron, not the EU. The French love their subsidy from Berlin.
Brexit, on the ground with an average Tommy (he held a local council seat, until last week's election).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOoyqDsB4u0
So you really think it is right to silence dissent, because you are correct enough to demand ... that the ends justify the means?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0odnxxwbb5s
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on May 10, 2019, 03:47:58 AM
Everybody is trying to cover themselves so they can blame someone else for the recession and mess when and if they finally do leave.
It is POLITICS? Gasp...
Quote from: Cavebear on May 16, 2019, 09:21:42 AM
It is POLITICS? Gasp...
Political-economics .. hence inevitable recession and blame fest ... except when MORE WAR.
Quote from: Baruch on May 16, 2019, 10:18:43 AM
Political-economics .. hence inevitable recession and blame fest ... except when MORE WAR.
Any particular war in mind?
Quote from: Cavebear on May 16, 2019, 03:26:09 PM
Any particular war in mind?
We have several proxy wars now (Syria, Libya, Ukraine, Yemen), how about adding Iran and Venezuela ... everyone wants in on this scam (Maj Gen Smedley D. Butler).
Defense isn't a scam, except by abuse of contract (see definition of "shoddy"). The point of defense is to avoid unnecessary wars. And we hope that none are necessary. You don't want a War Dept.
(http://i64.tinypic.com/wloavq.jpg)
I do understand what PM May was attempting to do. Straddle a fence, and doing it badly. I hope she enjoys her up coming early retirement.
Yes, B. As some wag once noted a guy who tries to stay in the middle gets shot at by both sides.
Quote from: Minimalist on May 18, 2019, 11:34:07 AM
Yes, B. As some wag once noted a guy who tries to stay in the middle gets shot at by both sides.
Remember, if you are in no-mans-land between Tory and Labor, you get hit by friendly fire from both sides ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on May 18, 2019, 12:41:48 PM
Remember, if you are in no-mans-land between Tory and Labor, you get hit by friendly fire from both sides ;-)
Congrats, you repeated what the person you replied to said. But the fact remains that Brexit is ALMOST as dumb as electing Trump President of the US.
Quote from: Cavebear on May 22, 2019, 06:45:04 AM
Congrats, you repeated what the person you replied to said. But the fact remains that Brexit is ALMOST as dumb as electing Trump President of the US.
We are free to have opinions. I am just a blood sport fan. But why do you want GB to be a slave to Germany, eh?
Quote from: Baruch on May 22, 2019, 06:56:10 AM
We are free to have opinions. I am just a blood sport fan. But why do you want GB to be a slave to Germany, eh?
The best antidote to Germany is a solid and involved Britain. As is Germany's best protection against an aggressive Russia. The most proper place for Britain is the last bastion of Europe and the closest connection to the US.
I think (which makes this a concern) that Britain is the centerpoint of world politics. Russia dares not take Europe because Britain is at the end of it and the US will not, if it allowed every other nation to fall, abandon Britain.
I would pick up a gun and go...
Quote from: Cavebear on May 22, 2019, 07:06:49 AM
The best antidote to Germany is a solid and involved Britain. As is Germany's best protection against an aggressive Russia. The most proper place for Britain is the last bastion of Europe and the closest connection to the US.
I think (which makes this a concern) that Britain is the centerpoint of world politics. Russia dares not take Europe because Britain is at the end of it and the US will not, if it allowed every other nation to fall, abandon Britain.
I would pick up a gun and go...
Nice theory. GB was cuck to Germany in 1939. Churchill was the only alpha male in their whole country. With him dead, GB has to surrender to Merkel even. So GB won't moderate Germany, Germany will radicalize GB.
And yes, except for that loon Hitler declaring war on us, we should have abandoned GB. I love them too, but only because of Monty Python.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTd0KQDW0tQ
The Brits play dirty politics just like the Americans. We probably learned it from them ;-(
The German Empire can't be stopped by anyone.
(http://i63.tinypic.com/178tgn.jpg)
I honestly think at this point May is just hanging on long enough to have a longer premiership than Gordon Brown. She's accomplished fuck-all otherwise.
Quote from: trdsf on May 23, 2019, 10:40:09 PM
I honestly think at this point May is just hanging on long enough to have a longer premiership than Gordon Brown. She's accomplished fuck-all otherwise.
To do Gordon Brown one better, she needs to give away all the rest of the gold in the BoE .. including the Queens ;-(
She's never been a real leader, she's an overinflated secretary at best. Just hoping whoever steps in actually gets this dam boulder moving at last
Quote from: Munch on May 24, 2019, 05:49:37 AM
She's never been a real leader, she's an overinflated secretary at best. Just hoping whoever steps in actually gets this dam boulder moving at last
So, PM Theresa May ... announced that she is leaving June 7. The long knives are out, as in 2016, for the new Tory leadership.
Quote from: Baruch on May 24, 2019, 07:06:16 AM
So, PM Theresa May ... announced that she is leaving June 7. The long knives are out, as in 2016, for the new Tory leadership.
Mother seems to think Boris Johnson is in with a chance. I'm neither one way or another about him.
Quote from: Munch on May 24, 2019, 10:53:16 AM
Mother seems to think Boris Johnson is in with a chance. I'm neither one way or another about him.
Rees-Mogg, Raab several others are viable. But do you want to put lipstick on that pig (Tory party)?
Gove, in 2016 was an essential double-crosser to prevent Johnson from having a successful bid.
Quote from: Munch on May 24, 2019, 10:53:16 AM
Mother seems to think Boris Johnson is in with a chance. I'm neither one way or another about him.
I kind of feel bad for hoping it'll be him. But I hope it'll be him.
Baruch probably hopes it'll be Gary Johnson...
(http://i65.tinypic.com/xaqhe8.jpg)
Quote from: Unbeliever on May 24, 2019, 01:15:34 PM
Baruch probably hopes it'll be Gary Johnson...
If only! I only want my MP to be from New Mexico!
With Boris Johnson, every day is bad hair day!
Being a humanitarian, and not a conspiracy theorist ... I feel sorry for PM May. She should have not tried to be a queen, GB already has one. Working in advance with rift in Tory party and with Labor party, from the beginning, would have gotten a "deal' what Parliament would agree to. Then the question would be, would the EU accept it or the people accept it? Take all three.
Brexiteers would say, that the EU plan is the elimination of GB, of its sovereignty, its Parliament, its monarchy. The wet dream of every Frenchman and German for the last 1000 years. The EU army is the means, which will be implemented in just a few more years. In spite of the promises that that was not part of the EU plan. But the EU lied.
Boris Johnson "may" understand Churchill ... before the Brexit vote ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdbDOvmLDz0
And this is the compromise necessary to keep GB alive .. a war cabinet ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htHKbsUKDDw
Any nation that doesn't realize you have to fight to survive, then you won't. Churchill failed many times before 1940 ... and Boris failed in 2016 after the Brexit vote.
“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.†“Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm.†- Winston Churchill
QuoteRachel Maddow looks at Russia's presence in European politics, stoking divisions and boosting right-wing populism in an effort to undermine the cohesiveness of the European Union.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RVJSNAYbSA
"The group founded by the ex-Nazis is called the Freedom Party."
Yeah, that sounds about right...
Since communists are supposed to be far-left, how is it that Russia is supporting so many far-right parties and candidates?
Quote from: Unbeliever on May 24, 2019, 03:54:47 PM
Since communists are supposed to be far-left, how is it that Russia is supporting so many far-right parties and candidates?
Not true communism ... same as not true socialism. When the Left result isn't what you want, then they didn't do it right.
And yes, all elections worldwide are controlled by Boris and Natasha. Rachel Maddow is Fearless Leader ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoeHDeQiMuE
It is hard to say what is best for Europe. For some it is being merged into a mega-state ... like why does Rhode Island exist anyway? Given even recent history, it is easy to see that Germanic hegemony won't go down well with Brits. But Belgium might be quite happy, because they directly benefit in a way that Greece does not.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on May 24, 2019, 11:05:47 AM
I kind of feel bad for hoping it'll be him. But I hope it'll be him.
Um, we've tried electing stupid. It hasn't worked out well.
Quote from: Minimalist on May 25, 2019, 01:08:19 AM
Um, we've tried electing stupid. It hasn't worked out well.
Roger Scruton would be a good choice for GB. He is smart, mature and isn't worthless SJW.
Quote from: Minimalist on May 25, 2019, 01:08:19 AM
Um, we've tried electing stupid. It hasn't worked out well.
Reasons why
1. It would be hilarious.
2. He helped get GB get into this mess. He should be held responsible for seeing it through.
3. When he lacks the ability to get a majority in the house of commons, what are the conspiracy theorist brexiteers going to say? That Boris Johnson is trying to sabotage brexit? They'll be a step closer to facing reality.
4. I don't see Boris as capable of getting a good deal. But I don't see anyone getting gb a 'good deal'. I do see him willing to refuse another extension. If that lead to a hard brexit, this surreal political daydream would finally be over.
5. If it did, at least the consequences of what follows could be pinned to those who made it happen. Good or bad. Though I think bad.
6. IT WOULD BE HILARIOUS
7. If his trying to shut it down by letting the clock run out and having it become a hard, crashing brexit lead to him being voted out with a vote of no confidence, that would be so beautiful. Lot's of 'ifs' I know, but still.
8. If he and trump ever met in one room and shook hands, I solemnly think it would herald the apocalypse. And at that point it's kind of what we deserve.
9. Did I mention it would be hilarious?
10. After all the shit GB has put the west through with it's self-contradicting cry for attention, I don't mind them suffering at the hands of someone like Boris Johnson for PM for a while. Call it schadenfreude if you will. You reap what you sow.
That said, there are plenty reasons why I'd rather not have him be PM.
I agree. Germany etc can't allow a good deal. Undermines their whole arrangement. So no-deal is all that there can be, on 10/31. Should have been on 3/29, but PM May was trying for what she and President Macron called a good deal, but Parliament wouldn't support it. The EU is lacking in a military, for a few more years yet. If this were 2022? then President Macron could have invaded Britain and put Parliament to the sword ;-)
Boris himself, I like him as a person, but GB is so divisive, I suspect they are ungovernable, for anyone, not just PM May. A general election might not bring clarity for GB. I see GB becoming much more like Italy, with many small parties and frequency changes in executive. Is Berlusconi still available?
Guess Belgium has much love for Germany and none for GB. They did recently debate, that GB had no need to enter WW I, which would imply that the Kaiser occupying Belgium was't a British issue ;-) Just make Netherlands and N Belgium into part of the German Empire. Give S Belgium back to France. Anschluss.
Quote from: Baruch on May 25, 2019, 06:20:37 AM
I agree. Germany etc can't allow a good deal. Undermines their whole arrangement. So no-deal is all that there can be, on 10/31. Should have been on 3/29, but PM May was trying for what she and President Macron called a good deal, but Parliament wouldn't support it. The EU is lacking in a military, for a few more years yet. If this were 2022? then President Macron could have invaded Britain and put Parliament to the sword ;-)
Boris himself, I like him as a person, but GB is so divisive, I suspect they are ungovernable, for anyone, not just PM May. A general election might not bring clarity for GB. I see GB becoming much more like Italy, with many small parties and frequency changes in executive. Is Berlusconi still available?
Guess Belgium has much love for Germany and none for GB. They did recently debate, that GB had no need to enter WW I, which would imply that the Kaiser occupying Belgium was't a British issue ;-) Just make Netherlands and N Belgium into part of the German Empire. Give S Belgium back to France. Anschluss.
You really are an odd duck.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on May 25, 2019, 07:53:12 AM
You really are an odd duck.
Quack. History has consequences, particularly if ignored. If the Kaiser hadn't been cousin to the British king, I don't think that the family bad blood would have decided things, the way they did. Germans of that generation really liked the British, were jealous of them (but not of France). It was Russia that had French envy.
(https://img2.thejournal.ie/article/4651556/listing/?width=600&version=4651563)
even the mail, a staunch conservative paper can't resist roasting her.
These are just hilarious, in a kind of monty python kinda way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2Fv8yVxe5o
She really shouldn't be using the line of accusing a brit about internment camps..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BcdhTzDJic&t=1s
Can't even finish a debate with any grace.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVCAF4fBLC8
I feel for this guy.
The part about them measuring candlewicks serves a fine example of the ball starting to roll. The points made to how similar the EU and the soviet state are by peoples own account, this really lends to the notion of those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
funny thing is I didn't vote in the original brexit vote, because I was still on the fence between stay or leave. The events of peoples vote really brought to life the real state of the EU to me in the last few years, and if they force a second vote, which I hope leads to rioting at the lack of democracy, if that happens I will vote to leave it.
Even my german boyfriend living here now agrees the UK should cut ties with the EU, hating what its doing to his own country.
Quote from: Baruch on May 22, 2019, 07:17:44 AM
Nice theory. GB was cuck to Germany in 1939. Churchill was the only alpha male in their whole country. With him dead, GB has to surrender to Merkel even. So GB won't moderate Germany, Germany will radicalize GB.
And yes, except for that loon Hitler declaring war on us, we should have abandoned GB. I love them too, but only because of Monty Python.
If Churchill had been the only "alpha" male in GB in 1939, they would be speaking German in London now. There were many "alphas" of various kinds: Pilots, firefighters, scientists, nurses, doctors, radar inventors, code-breakers, soldiers, etc. You do them wrong to dismiss their efforts.
Churchill needed all the people to support the war effort. He certainly encouraged them as almost no other person has in a time of great peril, but his words alone would not have been sufficient without everyone else stepping up to resist.
Quote from: Cavebear on May 26, 2019, 02:52:31 AM
If Churchill had been the only "alpha" male in GB in 1939, they would be speaking German in London now. There were many "alphas" of various kinds: Pilots, firefighters, scientists, nurses, doctors, radar inventors, code-breakers, soldiers, etc. You do them wrong to dismiss their efforts.
Churchill needed all the people to support the war effort. He certainly encouraged them as almost no other person has in a time of great peril, but his words alone would not have been sufficient without everyone else stepping up to resist.
Good think Hitler wasn't bombing them with tea and crumpets, or they would have surrendered immediately ;-)
If it were up to Churchill's contemporaries, they would have surrendered. Fighting the cattle car on the way to Auschwitz would have been too little too late. Once Churchill provided the example, the others found their missing gonads. i have the same problem with America First people in 1941.
Quote from: Unbeliever on May 24, 2019, 03:54:47 PM
Since communists are supposed to be far-left, how is it that Russia is supporting so many far-right parties and candidates?
Russia isn't communist -- and never was. Since the collapse of the old Soviet state, they've swung hard to plutocracy, bandit capitalism, and miscellaneous thuggery. They retained the oligarchy.
Quote from: trdsf on May 26, 2019, 04:34:20 AM
Russia isn't communist -- and never was. Since the collapse of the old Soviet state, they've swung hard to plutocracy, bandit capitalism, and miscellaneous thuggery. They retained the oligarchy.
So? Should we invade them because Putin is baby Hitler?
And whoever is communist, I nuke them. They are the worst kind of sociopath.
The good result of Brexit, if they choose it ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G_5-sCxQiM
Quote from: Baruch on May 26, 2019, 04:26:49 AM
Good think Hitler wasn't bombing them with tea and crumpets, or they would have surrendered immediately ;-)
If it were up to Churchill's contemporaries, they would have surrendered. Fighting the cattle car on the way to Auschwitz would have been too little too late. Once Churchill provided the example, the others found their missing gonads. i have the same problem with America First people in 1941.
Churchill was a good leader and the right person in the right spot at the right time. Successful nations tend to have that happen because there are many secondary leaders waiting behind...
Brexit support by the Czechs ... not just the Brits ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzOvpuhgOWc
Quote from: Baruch on May 26, 2019, 07:05:12 AM
Brexit support by the Czechs ... not just the Brits ...
Brexit is evil. Some Brit-twits decided they were too good for Europe (as if they weren't part of it) and got a narrow majority to force it. It's all been downhill from there. Its like me fighting the poison ivy and vinca major that keeps coming in from the neighbor's yards. If I was PM Theresa May, I would have finally stood up and said "I'm leaving, good luck, have fun" and walked out...
Of course that's WHY I was never the Brit PM, but still...
Quote from: Cavebear on May 26, 2019, 07:56:22 AM
Brexit is evil. Some Brit-twits decided they were too good for Europe (as if they weren't part of it) and got a narrow majority to force it. It's all been downhill from there. Its like me fighting the poison ivy and vinca major that keeps coming in from the neighbor's yards. If I was PM Theresa May, I would have finally stood up and said "I'm leaving, good luck, have fun" and walked out...
Of course that's WHY I was never the Brit PM, but still...
"Brexit is evil" rofl. you sound as crazy the the idiots being easily roasted by Carl (sargon) Benjamin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42WxnU0Q9BI
(thinks it only democratic if the vote goes there way otherwise a new vote needs to happen again and again until it does)
The only evil in this situation is the lack of democracy by the political system not upholding what the people voted for. A system without democracy heads towards anarchy.
And lets not pretend that you wouldn't be calling this out if something you voted for and won was stalled. you'd be then calling that 'evil'. lol.
Cavebear just wants what was true in 1999 to continue forever. Older people dred change for some strange reason ;-)
In many cases the EU never allowed referenda on their major accessions into their spider hole. And when a referenda failed, they simply retried until they got the vote the way they wanted it. Germany-France are not very democratic in practice, in fact they are rather tyrannical. Napoleon tried to conquer the whole continent, before Hitler tried.
Quote from: Baruch on May 26, 2019, 10:32:13 AM
Cavebear just wants what was true in 1999 to continue forever. Older people dred change for some strange reason ;-)
In many cases the EU never allowed referenda on their major accessions into their spider hole. And when a referenda failed, they simply retried until they got the vote the way they wanted it. Germany-France are not very democratic in practice, in fact they are rather tyrannical. Napoleon tried to conquer the whole continent, before Hitler tried.
and as sargon himself said, the EU just carried on that same trend, only they did it though the back door instead of the front.
Quote from: Munch on May 26, 2019, 10:01:11 AM
The only evil in this situation is the lack of democracy by the political system not upholding what the people voted for. A system without democracy heads towards anarchy.
But it's
not the Brexit that was voted for. Leave sold a complete unicorn-and-fairy-dust version where the UK could just walk away and have billions and billions of extra pounds to play with. You cannot say that the Brexit agreement resembles what Leave "promised" Brexit would be. The lie about £350 million a week for the NHS got walked back almost as soon as the referendum results were in (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-result-nigel-farage-nhs-pledge-disowns-350-million-pounds-a7099906.html).
If the UK wants to leave the EU, fine â€" but I don't think it's unfair to suggest the public ratify the
real Brexit, not the made-up one the Leave campaign sold. It's pretty clear that the government doesn't know what it's doing at this point; the only parties that have a clear message one way or the other are the minor ones.
Quote from: Munch on May 26, 2019, 10:01:11 AM
And lets not pretend that you wouldn't be calling this out if something you voted for and won was stalled. you'd be then calling that 'evil'. lol.
You mean like how the candidate who got the most votes in our last presidential election isn't president?
Not the correct leave? So the Leavers should have put out a 10,000 details position paper on how the whole UK government and UK commercial sector will be re-written? Yes, but then like the Obama care bill, people could vote on it, but will have never read the damn thing.
That isn't how elections or referenda go. Without radical simplification and successful mischaracterization (stereotyping) the public can't form any opinion. On the other hand, this is why I am against referenda in the first place, both Scot devolution and Brexit. Both terrible Tory ideas, for which they should be liquidated as a party. There is a reason to have "representative" government, not direct democracy.
PS - the way they do things in UK is very different than the US ... sufficiently different that the blood sport is more interesting to watch from here (not so much fun if you live in the UK). And to think, that if we were Brit, as some of us are, then the US way of doing things is bullocks in general ;-)
Relatively speaking, things are stabilizing for now, in the US, compared to the UK ... they are still entering the eye of the storm ;-( Like being a movie goer watching Jurassic Park fall apart, with consequences for the people in the movie itself.
Quote from: Baruch on May 25, 2019, 01:38:03 AM
Roger Scruton would be a good choice for GB. He is smart, mature and isn't worthless SJW.
So what you are saying is that he is unelectable?
Quote from: Minimalist on May 26, 2019, 03:27:42 PM
So what you are saying is that he is unelectable?
Good people never run for office. Only marginally sociopathic folks run for office. FDR for instance. Some sociopaths are better than others.
UKIP has basically been slaughtered at the EU elections, as results roll in, while the Brexit Party and Conservatives pretty much scooped up most of the votes.
Quote from: Sal1981 on May 26, 2019, 05:59:09 PM
UKIP has basically been slaughtered at the EU elections, as results roll in, while the Brexit Party and Conservatives pretty much scooped up most of the votes.
Correct. But Brexit Party really didn't pull from Ukip, but from Conservative/Tory. Seems Lib/Dem and Green are pulling from Labor.
The first failure was Tzipras in Greece, who ignored his referendum and fired Virofakis. And Tzipras' party is having further problems today. Ignore your voters? Pay at the polls.
Quote from: trdsf on May 26, 2019, 12:06:12 PM
But it's not the Brexit that was voted for. Leave sold a complete unicorn-and-fairy-dust version where the UK could just walk away and have billions and billions of extra pounds to play with. You cannot say that the Brexit agreement resembles what Leave "promised" Brexit would be. The lie about £350 million a week for the NHS got walked back almost as soon as the referendum results were in (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-result-nigel-farage-nhs-pledge-disowns-350-million-pounds-a7099906.html).
If the UK wants to leave the EU, fine â€" but I don't think it's unfair to suggest the public ratify the real Brexit, not the made-up one the Leave campaign sold. It's pretty clear that the government doesn't know what it's doing at this point; the only parties that have a clear message one way or the other are the minor ones.
You mean like how the candidate who got the most votes in our last presidential election isn't president?
Spot-on! The original vote was falsely-described. And all the pain follows...
At the risk of seeming the usual "The US will solve everything", do you think that that a non-dysfunctional US President might have made, could make, a difference?
Quote from: Cavebear on May 26, 2019, 10:02:00 PM
Spot-on! The original vote was falsely-described. And all the pain follows...
At the risk of seeming the usual "The US will solve everything", do you think that that a non-dysfunctional US President might have made, could make, a difference?
All political campaign promises are false. Politics, starting in Athens, is a lie. People participate because perversely we like being lied to.
There are no non-dysfunctional Americans, therefore no non-dysfunctional American Presidents ...
And you think that Witch Hazel (Hillary) wasn't senile etc?
Quote from: Baruch on May 26, 2019, 10:06:36 PM
All political campaign promises are false. Politics, starting in Athens, is a lie. People participate because perversely we like being lied to.
There are no non-dysfunctional Americans, therefore no non-dysfunctional American Presidents ...
And you think that Witch Hazel (Hillary) wasn't senile etc?
Nice double-negatives...
Hillary Clinton had the misfortune and fortune to marry a brilliant person who became President. Fortunate in that she gained expeience about government that she might not have gotten so quickly. And, quite frankly, they were a good team. Both were talented.
Unfortunate, in the sense of "wife of". She is shadowed by Bill. I think that is totally unfair. She has great talents of her own. For example, who do you think Putin would rather deal with, Trump or Hillary?
An aside: I read recently that when the 32 Rhodes scholars (with Bill Clinton) were together on the plane to England at take-off, they they all expected they would be President some day. When they landed, 31 of them knew they were wrong.
Quote from: Cavebear on May 26, 2019, 10:18:42 PM
Nice double-negatives...
Hillary Clinton had the misfortune and fortune to marry a brilliant person who became President. Fortunate in that she gained expeience about government that she might not have gotten so quickly. And, quite frankly, they were a good team. Both were talented.
Unfortunate, in the sense of "wife of". She is shadowed by Bill. I think that is totally unfair. She has great talents of her own. For example, who do you think Putin would rather deal with, Trump or Hillary?
An aside: I read recently that when the 32 Rhodes scholars (with Bill Clinton) were together on the plane to England at take-off, they they all expected they would be President some day. When they landed, 31 of them knew they were wrong.
well, that was unsettling to read. i mean, you've lived though quite a few presidents, so you can't be lost on events that occurred around them, yet you want to ignore certain ones and their actions while demonizing others based on nothing more then the party they lead?
People saying trump is doing the same shit bill did in his time in office, just masked in a different way.
Quote from: Munch on May 26, 2019, 10:49:35 PM
well, that was unsettling to read. i mean, you've lived though quite a few presidents, so you can't be lost on events that occurred around them, yet you want to ignore certain ones and their actions while demonizing others based on nothing more then the party they lead?
People saying trump is doing the same shit bill did in his time in office, just masked in a different way.
Bill got caught getting oral sex from an adult woman not his wife. End of problem...
Trump has spent his time trying to destroy the normal working of Government, lying about nearly everything, cheating about his finances, firing qualified people who would swear personal fealty to him, loves our autocratic enemies, refuses legal requests for information, etc, etc, etc.
AND has done worse to women than Bill ever did.
There is no comparing the 2.
Quote from: Cavebear on May 26, 2019, 11:02:57 PM
Bill got caught getting oral sex from an adult woman not his wife. End of problem...
Trump has spent his time trying to destroy the normal working of Government, lying about nearly everything, cheating about his finances, firing qualified people who would swear personal fealty to him, loves our autocratic enemies, refuses legal requests for information, etc, etc, etc.
AND has done worse to women than Bill ever did.
There is no comparing the 2.
No ... not end of problem. Serial rapist going back to Little Rock. And no, Trump is no gentleman. Are you?
Quote from: Baruch on May 27, 2019, 12:13:57 AM
No ... not end of problem. Serial rapist going back to Little Rock. And no, Trump is no gentleman. Are you?
Serial rapist going back to Little Rock Evidence, please?
Trump is no gentleman Correct, and more specifically, he is a serial groper and misogynist. In addition, he is a liar, and a wannabe dictator.
Are you? I am a gentleman. Your insinuation is offensive.
Quote from: Cavebear on May 27, 2019, 02:52:38 AM
Serial rapist going back to Little Rock Evidence, please?
Trump is no gentleman Correct, and more specifically, he is a serial groper and misogynist. In addition, he is a liar, and a wannabe dictator.
Are you? I am a gentleman. Your insinuation is offensive.
Bill Clinton was a philanderer his whole time as governor of Arkansas. This is well known. And today, even looking at a woman, is considered rape.
And no, I am not insinuating. But I won't assume either. You don't seem a satyr like JFK or Bill Clinton (male nymphomaniacs).
Quote from: Sal1981 on May 26, 2019, 05:59:09 PM
UKIP has basically been slaughtered at the EU elections, as results roll in, while the Brexit Party and Conservatives pretty much scooped up most of the votes.
UKIP voters moved to the Brexit party, who are the same thing. The Tories got slaughtered, as did Labour (though not quite as badly). The Lib Dems and Greens had a great night. And pro-EU parties did better than The Brexit Party did, in terms of the vote. The Brexit Party plus UKIP got 34.9% of the vote; the pro-EU parties (LD, SNP, Green, PD and Change) got 40.4%. Labour and the Conservatives had no coherent message, and got murdered. The Tories are now the #
5 party in the UK delegation to the EU -- you can't say they scooped up
anything. More accurately, they got damn near wiped out, reduced from 19 seats to 4. Labour went from 20 seats to 10â€"a bad night, but not as cataclysmic as the Conservatives.
Realistically, the Brexit Party went from 24 UKIP seats to 28 Brexit seats. A good result, but not as amazing as is being portrayed. Meanwhile, the LibDems went from one seat to 16. That's nothing short of a fucking brilliant result. Add to that the Greens move from three to seven.
Overall, the left-aligned parties have a plurality over the right: 365 to 351, to 35 unaffiliated/independent, the previous EU parliament having been 371 center-right through far-right to 358 center-left to far left, to 21 unaffiliated. Not really a mandate for anyone, just a mild shift to the left amid further polarization.
Quote from: trdsf on May 27, 2019, 06:16:10 AM
UKIP voters moved to the Brexit party, who are the same thing. The Tories got slaughtered, as did Labour (though not quite as badly). The Lib Dems and Greens had a great night. And pro-EU parties did better than The Brexit Party did, in terms of the vote. The Brexit Party plus UKIP got 34.9% of the vote; the pro-EU parties (LD, SNP, Green, PD and Change) got 40.4%. Labour and the Conservatives had no coherent message, and got murdered. The Tories are now the #5 party in the UK delegation to the EU -- you can't say they scooped up anything. More accurately, they got damn near wiped out, reduced from 19 seats to 4. Labour went from 20 seats to 10â€"a bad night, but not as cataclysmic as the Conservatives.
Realistically, the Brexit Party went from 24 UKIP seats to 28 Brexit seats. A good result, but not as amazing as is being portrayed. Meanwhile, the LibDems went from one seat to 16. That's nothing short of a fucking brilliant result. Add to that the Greens move from three to seven.
Overall, the left-aligned parties have a plurality over the right: 365 to 351, to 35 unaffiliated/independent, the previous EU parliament having been 371 center-right through far-right to 358 center-left to far left, to 21 unaffiliated. Not really a mandate for anyone, just a mild shift to the left amid further polarization.
Yeah, I meant Lib Dem, wrote Conservatives for some reason.
How the EU sees the MEP election ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCBJ-MaUTC4
Except not CCCP (Russian letters) but EUSR (French letters). Manifest Destiny is communism, comrades!
Quote from: Sal1981 on May 27, 2019, 11:21:19 AM
Yeah, I meant Lib Dem, wrote Conservatives for some reason.
I blame the former coalition. :)
What the hell was Nick Clegg thinking? Or more to the point,
was Nick Clegg thinking? If I had to posit a guess, it would be that he was so hot to get the LibDems in government, he didn't give a rat's ass about the compromiseshe'd have to make. Bob knows at no point did he ever direct his party to stand up to Cameron and say 'no'. Even the DUP was capable of doing that, and I'm
no fan of them. Clegg sold out his integrity and his party to get a seat at the table, and never once took advantage of the power he could have had over Cameron and his posh-boy clique.
They seem to have recovered a little under Cable... but he's leaving and I'm not sure who's waiting in the wings with comparable stature.
Quote from: Baruch on May 27, 2019, 11:29:15 AM
How the EU sees the MEP election ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCBJ-MaUTC4
Except not CCCP (Russian letters) but EUSR (French letters). Manifest Destiny is communism, comrades!
It is a rousing tune. I understand that Trump jerks off to it every night.
Of course I have just watched the first 4 episodes of Chernobyl which sort of puts the old USSR in a different light. They sang better than they built nuclear reactors.
(https://i.imgur.com/JzYZ0Wq.png)
national identity is as important as social identity. Seems funny how to two seem to conflict these days.
I have some hope, because I see the Tories and Laborites getting smashed. I think that LibDem is an interesting play. I think it is way early to think that Nigel Farage can turn his Brexit party into a General Election party. Plaid Cymru has defeated Labor in Wales. SDP is gaining in Scotland. DUP is gaining in N Ireland. How long until the Celtic tiger roars again? I can see a coalition between the remaining Celtic territories (within EU presumably as a kind of cultural reservation}, selling trinkets to tourists … and casinos, those have been winners for the Native Americans too.
Everytime I think that the US has gone the most totally nuts, Brexit is there to relieve my concerns.
Quote from: Cavebear on May 31, 2019, 12:19:22 AM
Everytime I think that the US has gone the most totally nuts, Brexit is there to relieve my concerns.
Agreed. A less personal blood sport. American blood sport is too close to home.
Quotethose have been winners for the Native Americans too.
And the casinos.... don't forget the casinos.
Quote from: Minimalist on May 31, 2019, 01:14:07 AM
And the casinos.... don't forget the casinos.
Given some of the names of people involved in Indian Casinos, I begin to question the "purity" of the casino owners...
Quote from: Cavebear on May 31, 2019, 01:59:49 AM
Given some of the names of people involved in Indian Casinos, I begin to question the "purity" of the casino owners...
What's a Puritan like you to do?
Quote from: Baruch on May 31, 2019, 10:27:34 AM
What's a Puritan like you to do?
Invest in index funds and grow rich... Then get out before Trump finishes wrecking the economy. I smile each day the S&P tumbles as I get 3% while others are pulling out their hair....
Quote from: Munch on May 30, 2019, 10:12:55 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/JzYZ0Wq.png)
national identity is as important as social identity. Seems funny how to two seem to conflict these days.
I say this fully aware that it’s an outside looking in perspective...
Hasn’t London essentially always been a non-English city? Abstractly, going back to the days of Normans and Vikings (and Romans), but more relevantly the city where so many of the Commonwealth and her colonies immigrated to? Hasn’t there always been an issue of African-English, Indian, Chinese, etc. enclaves in the city “destroying†the indigenous English culture?
Also, national identity is fine... but let’s not pretend like national identity wasn’t the root cause of almost all modern genocide and war in the West and East. It has its place, but it is a place that needs to be heavily watched and kept in check.
Quote from: Shiranu on May 31, 2019, 12:27:45 PM
I say this fully aware that it’s an outside looking in perspective...
Hasn’t London essentially always been a non-English city? Abstractly, going back to the days of Normans and Vikings (and Romans), but more relevantly the city where so many of the Commonwealth and her colonies immigrated to? Hasn’t there always been an issue of African-English, Indian, Chinese, etc. enclaves in the city “destroying†the indigenous English culture?
Also, national identity is fine... but let’s not pretend like national identity wasn’t the root cause of almost all modern genocide and war in the West and East. It has its place, but it is a place that needs to be heavily watched and kept in check.
Nothing about London (or about most places in Europe) are what they originally were. Europe has been awash with immigrations and conquests since the cro-magnons (who invented the filet magnon of course - j/k) first arrived after them were the Picts, the Celts, the Angles and Romans etc. But as a place, "The Romans founded London about 50 AD. Its name is derived from the Celtic word Londinios, which means the place of the bold one. After they invaded Britain in 43 AD the Romans built a bridge across the Thames. They later decided it was an excellent place to build a port. (Wikipedia)"
So even though the Roman later-comers understood, it was a good place. But equally an old established place before ports even matterred.
Your suggestion that it matters modernly as a place of immigration and naturalization is true about almost any established city. The newly-arrived settle into the poor areas of the largest city anywhere because that is where the opportunities exist. And they move out as fast as they can afford to. Because of "all those new-comers", LOL!
Quote from: Cavebear on May 31, 2019, 01:59:49 AM
Given some of the names of people involved in Indian Casinos, I begin to question the "purity" of the casino owners...
There are some Sicilian Indian tribes involved, to be sure.
Quote from: Shiranu on May 31, 2019, 12:27:45 PM
Hasn’t London essentially always been a non-English city? Abstractly, going back to the days of Normans and Vikings (and Romans), but more relevantly the city where so many of the Commonwealth and her colonies immigrated to? Hasn’t there always been an issue of African-English, Indian, Chinese, etc. enclaves in the city “destroying†the indigenous English culture?
Its bizarre to make the claim the capital of england is a non-english city. If you said londons always had a mixture of other cultures within it that would make sense. What you said though would apply to any nations capital that has a mixture of other cultures within in has no national identity within said countries nation, like toyko had a bunch of white westerners living there, does it lose its national identity because of that?
Quote
Also, national identity is fine... but let’s not pretend like national identity wasn’t the root cause of almost all modern genocide and war in the West and East. It has its place, but it is a place that needs to be heavily watched and kept in check.
Any identity falls into this spectrum, national, religious, social, political, theres been bloodbaths over these things across human history, so making claim that national identity is the sole cause of all the wars in the world is short sighted. People are more complex then just one part of their identity. Also just as any of these things can lead to conflict, so can they have good purposes, after all it was the brits national identity why we pushed back against the nazis in ww2, to stop that campaign before it reached us. It was also indians national identity that pushed forward to gaining its freedom from British rule.
This 'it needs to be watched' thing really sounds like it comes from someone only interested in globalization, which is an unstructured mess of ideals.
Quote from: Cavebear on May 31, 2019, 10:42:18 AM
Invest in index funds and grow rich... Then get out before Trump finishes wrecking the economy. I smile each day the S&P tumbles as I get 3% while others are pulling out their hair....
Don't kick a man (investor) when he is down (investments underperforming) or he might get up (turn a profit). The arrogance of the temporarily successful, who end up as a corpse same as a street urchin in Mumbai … always amuses. Usually particularly if they are kings and queens.
Centralization …
Caligula said, I wish the whole world had one neck, so it would be easier to cut it!
QuoteIts bizarre to make the claim the capital of england is a non-english city.
How so? Up until very (historically) recently, it's ruling class was almost exclusively non-English speaking... French, Germans, but not the actual English people. It has also always been a major enclave of non-English, both culturally and linguistically, peoples from across the Commonwealth. Calling London an "English city", given the fact it's ruling class and it's people have for it's entire history been a multi-cultural mix, to me does a great disservice to the history of the city.
I will admit, I might be wording that too strongly; what I should have said is that London has been an extremely mixed city that very rarely could be considered "English dominant".
Quote...like toyko had a bunch of white westerners living there, does it lose its national identity because of that?
No, because the proportion of foreigners in Tokyo is around 5-7% from what I'm finding. Native-born Japanese are the overwhelming majority and power of the political and social landscape of Tokyo.
Compare that to London... 36.7% of the population is foreign born, and how many of the locally-born Londoners were raised in foreign cultural enclaves vs. being fully integrated into English society?
44.9% of the city is "White British"... so it is, objectively speaking, not an "English" city... or at least, not an English majority city.
QuoteAny identity falls into this spectrum, national, religious, social, political, theres been bloodbaths over these things across human history, so making claim that national identity is the sole cause of all the wars in the world is short sighted.
Well, considering I didn't make that claim... I'm not particularly concerned with how short-sighted it would be.
QuoteThis 'it needs to be watched' thing really sounds like it comes from someone only interested in globalization, which is an unstructured mess of ideals.
And the idea that nationalism shouldn't be viewed with extreme skepticism and distrust really sounds like it comes from someone who didn't pay a lick of attention in history classes that covered the last 200 years of European history.
I have been pretty consistent on being proud of my cultural identity, which is heavily tied into nationalism, for years here. But you can bemoan globalization all you like, at the end of the day the entire world as we know it... for good or bad... literally only works because of globalization. Turn back to regonalization and nationalism, and the entire modern world collapses.
It's happened before in human history (the Bronze Age collapse, which took thousands of years to recover from), and it will happen again.
Good, hope the Sea Peoples invade Austin Texas. Remember, the Barbarians are always the good guys … well if they are Huns and Commissars.
Quote from: Baruch on June 01, 2019, 02:06:58 AM
Good, hope the Sea Peoples invade Austin Texas. Remember, the Barbarians are always the good guys … well if they are Huns and Commissars.
With global warming, they might not even have to travel too far from coast to town :(.
Quote from: Shiranu on June 01, 2019, 03:54:24 PM
With global warming, they might not even have to travel too far from coast to town :(.
The more people in developed countries, the more fossil fuels burned, the more aerosols used, and the more industries producing waste/carbon emission.
Quote from: Munch on June 01, 2019, 05:18:51 PM
The more people in developed countries, the more fossil fuels burned, the more aerosols used, and the more industries producing waste/carbon emission.
(https://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/images/2017/11/gw-graphic-pie-chart-co2-emissions-by-country-2015.png)
I would hardly call India a developed country, nor Russia... and until very recently, China was second world at best. Likewise you have countries like France, the U.K. and Australia who produce significantly less carbon emissions than countries significantly less developed than them.
Developed countries are (generally) the one's leading the way in environmental sustainability and lowering carbon emissions. Corruption nations on the other hand are the one's generally leading the way in environmental pollution and use of dirty energy. Mongolia, India, China, Iran, Sri Lanka, most of Central Africa, Brasil, etc. are all prime examples of this. Even if they don't have the population to fuck the environment up at a global level, they are doing an amazing job of destroying it at a regional level.
Also, is that really an argument of, "People should be forced to live in war torn countries and in poverty because... the environment!"? That is some of the biggest of yikes I have read.
The problem with stats …
If 100% of all Chinese industrial products were purchased by the US, would their carbon emission count toward the US or toward China. I see this as a global problem, not a national problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiHGnQpCJkw
And I hear Trump's trying to stick his fingers in the Brexit pie. I wonder if the Brits will listen to him - or just laugh at him.
They mostly laughed. But they noted that Obama already stuck his nose in, in 2016, because he is the magic Nobel Peace Prize killer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9zEnCHWz9I
See this is what I enjoy about trump, not the person, but the reaction he creates in people.
Looking at the comment section of this video, a lot of people pissed off at Khans speech and its meaning. Going along with what John Cleese said recently, about London not being an english city anymore, coupled with the rise in knife crimes happening in city (it would be gun crime if this was america) under Sadiq Khan's watch, the irony of having this little weasel complaining about trump not representing londons values (he's american, durr) when this guy can't even run his own city correctly, this is what I find entertaining, the hypocrisy someone like trump draws out of people just from his presence is amazing.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/knife-crime-stabbings-london-gang-police-england-wales-uk-a8885486.html
And before one wonders, I'm one generation out from being london born, I still have family born and living in london, and been there often, so I've seen the city change, and I agree with what john cleese says, as does my aunt and uncle living there.
Political correctness means nobody can be honest. And being dishonest is great, if you are trying to put people into cattle cars. Rough accommodation but y'all are just going on a fun vacation.
Yes, Trump is triggering. I don't understand why. Sort of like the automatic reaction most people have with a spider. It is unthinking reflex.
I can see Trump in the Oval Office, yelling "KAHN!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EnsUeR2MyI
:-P
So your saying trumps respected like captain James T. Kirk? I suppose he does have that 1960-70s demeanor
Quote from: Munch on June 03, 2019, 06:41:28 PM
So your saying trumps respected like captain James T. Kirk? I suppose he does have that 1960-70s demeanor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcEHM8GFSwM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8O_C7T5H_s
God-emperor Trump blows up Democrat House, or EU? Both opponents believe in their superiority ... like Kahn.
Quote from: Munch on June 03, 2019, 06:41:28 PM
So your saying trumps respected like captain James T. Kirk?
Well, I hadn't entertained that particular notion, no.
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 03, 2019, 06:57:47 PM
Well, I hadn't entertained that particular notion, no.
Many people don't find Trump's antics to be entertaining at all.
Quote from: Baruch on June 03, 2019, 07:08:49 PM
Many people don't find Trump's antics to be entertaining at all.
some men just want to watch the world burn.
Quote from: Munch on June 03, 2019, 07:18:42 PM
some men just want to watch the world burn.
When you are cold, that makes sense. In a famous Zen story, a Zen saint burned wooden Buddha statutes to get warm.
Quote from: Munch on June 03, 2019, 07:18:42 PM
some men just want to watch the world burn.
I think calling such people "men" would be giving them far too much credit.
Quote from: Baruch on June 03, 2019, 07:23:13 PM
When you are cold, that makes sense. In a famous Zen story, a Zen saint burned wooden Buddha statutes to get warm.
you gotta use whats available
Quote from: Baruch on June 03, 2019, 07:23:13 PM
In a famous Zen story, a Zen saint burned wooden Buddha statutes to get warm.
Kill the buddha.
Quote from: Baruch on May 31, 2019, 10:03:52 PM
Don't kick a man (investor) when he is down (investments underperforming) or he might get up (turn a profit). The arrogance of the temporarily successful, who end up as a corpse same as a street urchin in Mumbai … always amuses. Usually particularly if they are kings and queens.
Not everyone is good at investments. And I'm sure not about individual ones. Which is why I avoid them. Index funds, representing most of the stocks have been very good to me since 2011, when I was sure the market was recovering. And I'm not trying to "time the market". That is a fool's game.
But I was convinced the Trump about to ruin both the domestic and international markets completely aside from actual market forces and got out. I may have been a year early, but it seems to happening now. I expect the S&P to fall for months or a year as Trump thrashes around ruining the US reputation and economy. I hate that, but I will react rationally.
With the trade war on, and expanding to additional countries, anything can happen at this point. DiversiFy!
Quote from: Baruch on June 04, 2019, 05:57:16 AM
With the trade war on, and expanding to additional countries, anything can happen at this point. DiversiFy!
No, you idiot, DON'T diversify. Contract into safe investments like Money Markets. And never touch gold. Be cash-ready to re-enter the stocks when Trump pushes the economy to the bottom. Catch it on the upside when he is gone.
Quote from: Cavebear on June 04, 2019, 06:40:55 AM
No, you idiot, DON'T diversify. Contract into safe investments like Money Markets. And never touch gold. Be cash-ready to re-enter the stocks when Trump pushes the economy to the bottom. Catch it on the upside when he is gone.
Sorry, not good advice. But I hope it works out for you anyway. Chasing yield, in the long run, and you get all your money in the failed Uber IPO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neqojhViTaU
its easy to blame the problems we're facing in the world on one individual instead of looking at humanity as a whole for the problems its created.
Its honestly embarrassing on different levels.
Though what the guy says at the end is very true. This here on display is an example of a new form of religion, secular, one where in moving away from ones like Christianity, people are hard wired into needing a form of group think like Christianity before it. Their chanting the same as Christians would be praying, they get angry when their ideals are challenged by those outside the group, they carry banners the same way Christians carry crosses, and free thought is just dismissed from said groups.
i'm an atheist, not just because I don't believe in what ancient cults made people follow for thousands of years, but also against modern day cults, like socialism or Marxism. And I'm going to carry on upholding the most important thing to me based on what atheism should be, free thought and having the right to express it.
Quote from: Baruch on June 03, 2019, 07:08:49 PM
Many people don't find Trump's antics to be entertaining at all.
But I bet Putin never stops laughing.
Quote from: Minimalist on June 05, 2019, 01:49:44 AM
But I bet Putin never stops laughing.
If Putin is a god, then I will worship him too ;-) Russians put on pants two legs at a time.
Quote from: Baruch on June 04, 2019, 02:34:46 PM
Sorry, not good advice. But I hope it works out for you anyway. Chasing yield, in the long run, and you get all your money in the failed Uber IPO.
That is exactly what I do NOT do.
But also, I very much apologize for saying "idiot". You aren't but I was up too late and angry at the time for other reasons. I have my weaknesses... I was wrong to say that.
Quote from: Cavebear on June 06, 2019, 03:03:04 AM
That is exactly what I do NOT do.
But also, I very much apologize for saying "idiot". You aren't but I was up too late and angry at the time for other reasons. I have my weaknesses... I was wrong to say that.
Don't change portfolio either, while in high dungeon.
Quote from: Baruch on June 06, 2019, 07:12:04 AM
Don't change portfolio either, while in high dungeon.
Holding firm. I'm confident Trump will ruin the economy yet... He has 16 months to go. And if he doesn't, I've been getting 3%...
Commies of the world unite ... otherwise you will lose in Parliament by a few votes ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tPaDohpjUM
Eh wot? The opposition party whip is a sadist? Ow! Ow!
Quote from: Baruch on June 12, 2019, 11:19:36 PM
Commies of the world unite ... otherwise you will lose in Parliament by a few votes ...
Eh wot? The opposition party whip is a sadist? Ow! Ow!
Where do you GET these silly graphics? Is there a subscription service? Some of them don't even make any sense.
Quote from: Cavebear on June 15, 2019, 06:54:58 AM
Where do you GET these silly graphics? Is there a subscription service? Some of them don't even make any sense.
Videos? They pop up because the Google algorithm working on whatever current Youtube I am watching, is genius!
Quote from: Baruch on June 15, 2019, 07:20:37 AM
Videos? They pop up because the Google algorithm working on whatever current Youtube I am watching, is genius!
So you feel compelled to post them all and spread the nonsense around? I wish you wouldn't.
Quote from: Cavebear on June 15, 2019, 08:06:56 AM
So you feel compelled to post them all and spread the nonsense around? I wish you wouldn't.
Echo chamber man ... was found fossilized at his PC ...
(http://i64.tinypic.com/v4ticn.jpg)
You can always support Rory "I am MI6/Rothschild" Stewart ;-) I feel sorry for that guy's mother ;-(
So Rory is out (until further notice, never count the spooks out).
Good news on Boris Johnson. Saw the "Who Do You Think You Are" on his family background (filmed last year). He is a descendent from King George II .. so should be acceptable to Her Majesty as PM.
Redivision of Tory leader votes ... Javid is fading, like Stewart did yesterday. Johnson has an outright majority. Battle for second place is now between Gove and Hunt. President Trump approves of both Johnson and Hunt. Gove was the great betrayer in 2016, and has already said he will ask for an extension past 10/31. So looks to be a Johnson vs Hunt contest with the general Tory membership, which Johnson is expected to win. Johnson was expected to be PM, in 2016, but was betrayed by Gove which lead to May.
Can Johnson Brexit? I say no, because the EU won't let GB go with a better deal than the unacceptable May deal, and Parliament won't allow a no-deal Brexit (continuation of existing Mexican standoff, but with a different PM). The answer will get a General Election, which all parties will attempt to bring in a Labor government under Corbyn, because communism is inevitable, just like a Bernie-type candidate will inevitably take the White House in 2020 or 2024. Then we can get on with our very own Gulag.
Quote from: Baruch on June 20, 2019, 10:26:10 AM
Redivision of Tory leader votes ... Javid is fading, like Stewart did yesterday. Johnson has an outright majority. Battle for second place is now between Gove and Hunt. President Trump approves of both Johnson and Hunt. Gove was the great betrayer in 2016, and has already said he will ask for an extension past 10/31. So looks to be a Johnson vs Hunt contest with the general Tory membership, which Johnson is expected to win. Johnson was expected to be PM, in 2016, but was betrayed by Gove which lead to May.
Can Johnson Brexit? I say no, because the EU won't let GB go with a better deal than the unacceptable May deal, and Parliament won't allow a no-deal Brexit (continuation of existing Mexican standoff, but with a different PM). The answer will get a General Election, which all parties will attempt to bring in a Labor government under Corbyn, because communism is inevitable, just like a Bernie-type candidate will inevitably take the White House in 2020 or 2024. Then we can get on with our very own Gulag.
Because corbyn has shown himself to be such an acceptable leader? People won't back him, not unless he learns to pull wizardry from his ass under pm Boris.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on June 20, 2019, 11:13:36 AM
Because corbyn has shown himself to be such an acceptable leader? People won't back him, not unless he learns to pull wizardry from his ass under pm Boris.
We will see. Zombie Karl Marx, that is the real candidate for every European office, that all Europeans can unite on. Under Zombie Marx you get no social classes, free lunch for everyone. A perfect materialist society. Atheist (because Church is a social class maker) and gay (because making babies has to be controlled by The Party, which controls everything). Like the proposed porn control law in GB, everyone should be asexual except when the procreation commissar tells you your number has come up for the 15 minute procreation (not hate). So it is OK being gay when it isn't your turn.
At least BBC will be shut down (government department)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WnKsmpbohg
This is what Boris needs to imbibe before he travels to Brussels wanker in hand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__zOhK2nuwE
There may be a residual number of Remainers who want Friedrich Nietzsche as their permanent zombie leader. But y'all have "Always been at war with Oceania". With either zombie leader you never have to vote again, since zombie leaders can't die. It is embarrassing the "brains, brains" refrain, but having brains doesn't help you compared to the EU Commission in Brussels ;-) Of course London/Paris will fight over who can lead "real communism" (INGSOC vs FRNSOC). Berlin is out, they will show their true colors to prevent the reins of the 4th Reich from slipping from their hands, so all Nietzsche followers must gravitate there.
Realistically GB should realize that they are slaves of Brussels. They need to revoke Article 50, abolish Parliament, abolish the Monarchy. All the MoD control should go to Paris, not Berlin. France already has nukes, and we don't want any German to ever have them. Here is what the EU commission is good for, just nuke them in the microwave for example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDulZ6GAIZo
The crisis will come when "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher. Can all of GB become non-working lay-abouts like the Greeks? Nobody in Europe needs to work again, except for the Germans. They need to volunteer for 3 shift work 24x7 to make all the stuff that their giant welfare-state requires. It is all about Bread & Circuses, going back 2000 years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24RUrDx7isM
In Latin, "ludi" means both games and sex. But who is f**king who?
What is the German plan? To be parasitic on China. But they need to get moving. Already Italy has 300K Chinese guest workers. What rude hospitality, invite Chinese to Italy, feed them, then say "we don't accept Yuan here", and make them all go work in the kitchen to pay for their upkeep. Then the Germans can join the other Europeans in utopia, while the true socialists, the Chinese android totalitarianism, can work 24x7 taking care of all these European beta males.
Perfect explanation for human political behavior ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmwrOVSdTaQ
Science got it wrong again. We are descended from dogs, not apes.
What obsessive-compulsive behavior? Brits are Kim Philby or Oswald Mosley.
https://youtu.be/kQSbav9GFfI (https://youtu.be/kQSbav9GFfI)
That and double crossed Johnson in 2016.
"Now we have the anti no-deal Brexit grand Commons sit in!" ... not only a Conservative (Rory Stewart) plot for a doppleganger Parliament, and a communist (Jeremy Corbyn) Parliament (Labor), but a Conservative (Philip Hammond) plot to defy Queen's prorogation of Parliament (it is the Queen who orders it) ... because some want to challenge, on a case by case basis, the ability of the Queen to run things.
How about ... if they all think they are the Queen, they have to appear dressed appropriately ;-))
This just keeps getting worse and worse ...
If Boris becomes PM and dies, I am not recommending President Trump attend his funeral ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23_piHjJazE
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition or the Fourth Reich ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N6OOWtCYQA
Hahah ... Merkel has more balls than all of Britain put together (E German Olympic Swim Team).
Guy Fawkes did nothing wrong!
So, one question. I seem to recall that Parliament has already rejected a "no-deal" Brexit. How does Boris the Putz plan to get around that with the same Parliament that despises him more than May?
Quote from: Minimalist on July 14, 2019, 07:44:42 PM
So, one question. I seem to recall that Parliament has already rejected a "no-deal" Brexit. How does Boris the Putz plan to get around that with the same Parliament that despises him more than May?
They did. And have repeatedly demonstrated they can change their fickle minds on a day to day basis. And the chance either candidate (Johnson not officially declared the winner yet) of changing that is zero. What they need is to call for a General Election. Then Labor (and Corbyn) will win, a communist regime will be declared, and they can end this whole sorry mess of the last 1000 year. No more Queen, no more Parliament, no more High Court, no more Ministry of Defense, no more Pound. Then the question is, can two socialisms fight it out? Merkel vs Corbyn? A repeat of Operation Barbarossa ... German socialism against Soviet socialism (Corbyn is a Stalinist).
The extent to which the US is messed up, is less than GB. GB has been at this a lot longer.
I saw something on the news yesterday that applies here. It cracked me up.
Boris Johnson held up a packaged fish (kipper) claiming that a good reason to leave the EU was that they required that EACH kipper shipped from Briatain to the the EU be accompanied by a freeze pouch.
The commentor pointed out that 1) It would still be required if the Brits left the EU and 2) it was a BRITISH regulation not an EU one. What an IDIOT! Congrats England, you are about to get a Trump...
Yes. We all need a Trump. At least for entertainment. Boris is famous for gaffs.
On a similar note, watched a recent expert report that Nato is basically dead. Basically because Germany is opposed to it like France always was. Nato is limited to the US, Poland and Romania (Poland and Romania have genuine fear/hate of Russia). The other members don't contribute anything other than act as obfuscation. Britain is probably lost to Nato as well ... too far gone since being Borged by the Common Market in 1975. What Britain needs is a civil war and a Cromwell. Same as the US. We both need military dictatorships, and a expulsion of half our quisling populations.
Quote from: Baruch on July 20, 2019, 06:14:57 AM
Yes. We all need a Trump. At least for entertainment. Boris is famous for gaffs.
On a similar note, watched a recent expert report that Nato is basically dead. Basically because Germany is opposed to it like France always was. Nato is limited to the US, Poland and Romania (Poland and Romania have genuine fear/hate of Russia). The other members don't contribute anything other than act as obfuscation. Britain is probably lost to Nato as well ... too far gone since being Borged by the Common Market in 1975. What Britain needs is a civil war and a Cromwell. Same as the US. We both need military dictatorships, and a expulsion of half our quisling populations.
[Shakes head in sadness of post...]
Quote from: Cavebear on July 20, 2019, 07:17:47 AM
[Shakes head in sadness of post...]
With the potential collapse of Deusche Bank, Germany might not have any money to spend on their own defense. Politics and economics are inseparable.
In any case, I am pro-Russian and pro-Iranian. I don't think we need to confront Russia at all, in Ukraine, Poland, Romania or Baltic States. It may be unfortunately necessary to be anti-Chinese, depending on what they do next ;-( We don't need to confront Iran. I am fine with them having nukes.
Most of the anti-Russia trope is coming from GB, and most of the anti-Iran trope is coming from Israel. And I don't trust anyone, including those two "allies". Whenever I comment on policy X, that doesn't mean I approve of it. Armed peace is the only policy, Anything else is death.
Quote from: Baruch on July 20, 2019, 08:08:04 AM
With the potential collapse of Deusche Bank, Germany might not have any money to spend on their own defense. Politics and economics are inseparable.
In any case, I am pro-Russian and pro-Iranian. I don't think we need to confront Russia at all, in Ukraine, Poland, Romania or Baltic States. It may be unfortunately necessary to be anti-Chinese, depending on what they do next ;-( We don't need to confront Iran. I am fine with them having nukes.
Most of the anti-Russia trope is coming from GB, and most of the anti-Iran trope is coming from Israel. And I don't trust anyone, including those two "allies". Whenever I comment on policy X, that doesn't mean I approve of it. Armed peace is the only policy, Anything else is death.
It is always so great when you are truly honest. You love the Russians and the Chinese and Iranians. Would you like to live in Iran? You wouldn't do very well in a truly authoritarian govt, you know... You can only survive in a democracy that you criticize every day dozens of ill-thought posts at a time.
Give me an example of a post you would feel safe in sending if you were in China.
Quote from: Cavebear on July 20, 2019, 09:03:38 AM
It is always so great when you are truly honest. You love the Russians and the Chinese and Iranians. Would you like to live in Iran? You wouldn't do very well in a truly authoritarian govt, you know... You can only survive in a democracy that you criticize every day dozens of ill-thought posts at a time.
Give me an example of a post you would feel safe in sending if you were in China.
I love everyone. Even though everyone is annoying. So I love all countries/cultures. Of course we are naturally more critical of our own country/culture. That is why I try to focus on non-US issues. Less annoying. The US is not free, nobody is. Democracy and Republicanism are mirages. The power hierarchy is always ... in power. I really criticize stupidity ... stupid policy. I have less problem with the idiots who promote those policies. So do you think now ... I am in the closet, aligned with the Four Ladies of the Apocalypse?
I would love to be any person in any culture at any time. Life is always hard. All else is prejudice. Of course the particular person in the particular culture I am in ... is a more immediate issue compared to hypotheticals.
I am not afraid of China etc. Wouldn't be afraid to be a Jew in Berlin in 1933. Fear is the mind-killer. Most times we don't have an opportunity to change our nation. We never have a choice as to the one we are born into. If I don't fear, I don't hate. What I don't hate, I don't need to destroy, to kill. Same as being at the zoo with all those dangerous wild animals. I don't feel a need to send in the 101st Airborne to kill the dangerous zoo animals.
In China? I would post ... "Ending the Manchu Dynasty was bad" ... "Ending foot binding was good". Unpredictable anywhere I go. I am not anti-Chinese, so there would be no need for them to kill me. I would be no more likely to be killed there as here. A Jewish thing that causes Gentiles to freak out. A Jew is safe nowhere. I would be a "lao pengyo" aka "old friend". Of course as a one-party state, they are politically constipated, but a good guest doesn't mention that. Traditional Chinese culture was a unique thing that didn't need to be corrupted by Western Right or Left politics. Progress isn't the same as making everyone just like New England, by force of arms. I considered moving to China twice now, once in 89 for work, and once for retirement. But nobody likes senior citizen immigrants. Visit and leave your money please! Besides I am retired and my daughter doesn't live there. If in a parallel universe, my daughter was working in Shanghai, I would try to get a long term residence permit, so I could be close to her.
We can't all be as brilliant as this young Englishman ... the young looking dark blond kid is "Chris" ... the one who put this online.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN_QgtydKjk
Quote from: Baruch on July 20, 2019, 10:32:10 AM
I love everyone. Even though everyone is annoying. So I love all countries/cultures. Of course we are naturally more critical of our own country/culture. That is why I try to focus on non-US issues. Less annoying. The US is not free, nobody is. Democracy and Republicanism are mirages. The power hierarchy is always ... in power. I really criticize stupidity ... stupid policy. I have less problem with the idiots who promote those policies. So do you think now ... I am in the closet, aligned with the Four Ladies of the Apocalypse?
I would love to be any person in any culture at any time. Life is always hard. All else is prejudice. Of course the particular person in the particular culture I am in ... is a more immediate issue compared to hypotheticals.
I am not afraid of China etc. Wouldn't be afraid to be a Jew in Berlin in 1933. Fear is the mind-killer. Most times we don't have an opportunity to change our nation. We never have a choice as to the one we are born into. If I don't fear, I don't hate. What I don't hate, I don't need to destroy, to kill. Same as being at the zoo with all those dangerous wild animals. I don't feel a need to send in the 101st Airborne to kill the dangerous zoo animals.
In China? I would post ... "Ending the Manchu Dynasty was bad" ... "Ending foot binding was good". Unpredictable anywhere I go. I am not anti-Chinese, so there would be no need for them to kill me. I would be no more likely to be killed there as here. A Jewish thing that causes Gentiles to freak out. A Jew is safe nowhere. I would be a "lao pengyo" aka "old friend". Of course as a one-party state, they are politically constipated, but a good guest doesn't mention that. Traditional Chinese culture was a unique thing that didn't need to be corrupted by Western Right or Left politics. Progress isn't the same as making everyone just like New England, by force of arms. I considered moving to China twice now, once in 89 for work, and once for retirement. But nobody likes senior citizen immigrants. Visit and leave your money please! Besides I am retired and my daughter doesn't live there. If in a parallel universe, my daughter was working in Shanghai, I would try to get a long term residence permit, so I could be close to her.
We can't all be as brilliant as this young Englishman ... the young looking dark blond kid is "Chris" ... the one who put this online.
First, love the Dune reference. I think of that every dentist visit (and one coming up Monday).
Second, "Even though everyone is annoying". Yeah, me too. I agree. You are annoying. ;)
Third, I understand the rest and will make no snide or snark comment.
Quote from: Cavebear on July 20, 2019, 11:45:44 AM
First, love the Dune reference. I think of that every dentist visit (and one coming up Monday).
Second, "Even though everyone is annoying". Yeah, me too. I agree. You are annoying. ;)
Third, I understand the rest and will make no snide or snark comment.
What? You followed all that Mandarin dialog? (snark). Neither did I. You and I are more similar, than Joe and I are similar. There are ways that you and Joe aren't very far apart on that axis. So I guess that makes you closer to both of us. Joe and I didn't get along well, when I started here. We seem to both be better now.
Quote from: Baruch on July 20, 2019, 11:54:15 AM
What? You followed all that Mandarin dialog? (snark). Neither did I. You and I are more similar, than Joe and I are similar. There are ways that you and Joe aren't very far apart on that axis. So I guess that makes you closer to both of us. Joe and I didn't get along well, when I started here. We seem to both be better now.
I understand you. For better or for worse, I do. You are in some ways, Hyde to my Jekyll. There is the aspect of you that I suppress in myself. And for damn good reason, I might add.
Quote from: Cavebear on July 20, 2019, 12:40:58 PM
I understand you. For better or for worse, I do. You are in some ways, Hyde to my Jekyll. There is the aspect of you that I suppress in myself. And for damn good reason, I might add.
No, I am Dr Jekyll, you are Mr Hyde ;-))
Quote from: Baruch on July 20, 2019, 04:58:19 PM
No, I am Dr Jekyll, you are Mr Hyde ;-))
Playing Woolworth against a mirror are we?...
Quote from: Cavebear on July 20, 2019, 06:46:41 PM
Playing Woolworth against a mirror are we?...
Is the mirror "funhouse" or not. This matters.
Quote from: Baruch on July 20, 2019, 07:39:20 PM
This matters.
Nothing really matters. Haven't you heard the song?
Quote from: Unbeliever on July 20, 2019, 07:42:58 PM
Nothing really matters. Haven't you heard the song?
Photons aren't Catholic ... they have no Mass;-)
Protons must be uber-Catholic, then - they have a lot more Mass than can be accounted for by their constituents.
:-P
Quote from: Unbeliever on July 20, 2019, 07:58:09 PM
Protons must be uber-Catholic, then - they have a lot more Mass than can be accounted for by their constituents.
:-P
So they are elected politicians? "constituents" = voters in district.
Yeah, and Republicans are like protons because they get more votes than can be accounted for by their constituents.
Quote from: Unbeliever on July 20, 2019, 08:35:00 PM
Yeah, and Republicans are like protons because they get more votes than can be accounted for by their constituents.
Protons outweigh election-trons by multiple times. No wonder they win.
So, BoJo is PM. Got a talking to by former PMs yesterday (they showed him the instruments of torture in true Vatican fashion). 2/3 of MPs are against him. The EU is against him. The Brexit party has no current leverage (except in future general election). About 1/2 of GB is Remain. Members of his own party and Labor want to "no confidence" him before Nov 1. Support by Trump is a net negative. So plenty of blood sport entertainment to come!
Dear United (for now) Kingdom:
Good luck. You're going to need it.
Signed,
Someone else suffering under the premiership of a blond lunatic with a bad haircut.
You think he's going to be a good PM,
@Munch ? One who'll deliver?
No snark. Just asking.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on July 23, 2019, 11:24:14 AM
You think he's going to be a good PM, @Munch ? One who'll deliver?
No snark. Just asking.
honestly, no idea. we live in a clown world so might as well have a clown for PM.
Quote from: Munch on July 23, 2019, 11:34:19 AM
honestly, no idea. we live in a clown world so might as well have a clown for PM.
As a monarchist, I would like to see permanent prorogue of Parliament. Rule by divine right. Take that, atheists!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z89yFr6xHYQ
Bring back the Empire ... huzzah! Coronation, a liturgy of the Anglican Church.
I assume my Anglo-Irish ancestors left there during her reign, because of poverty. But I don't blame Victoria for that. Almost everyone was poor then.
Quote from: Baruch on July 23, 2019, 07:14:43 PM
As a monarchist, I would like to see permanent prorogue of Parliament. Rule by divine right. Take that, atheists!
I wouldn't object if they proposed to abolish our royalty.
My dad says it still impresses some countries when a prince or princes is on an economic mission with him, but that's about all the benefit I see to this current day interpretation of monarchy.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on July 23, 2019, 07:19:50 PM
I wouldn't object if they proposed to abolish our royalty.
My dad says it still impresses some countries when a prince or princes is on an economic mission with him, but that's about all the benefit I see to this current day interpretation of monarchy.
Does Belgium even have a government? It seems you are trying to become Washington DC, which is neither state nor country.
Re-enactment of last great cavalry charge of the British Army, Omdurman, Sudan, 1898 (with Winston Churchill, cavalryman and military correspondent). Against the followers of the Mahdi (messiah) who was recently deceased.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6UmKsqz6aQ
Nothing has really changed. 1st world still messes in 3rd world, with better weapons. 2003 in Basra, Saddam just the latest false messiah.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBRHUzQUV2A
Quote from: Baruch on July 23, 2019, 07:30:49 PM
Does Belgium even have a government?
Hah.
We probably have more governments per capita than any other country in the world. Seven, man.
Six if we merge the flemish ones, which honestly you could do.
But still.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on July 24, 2019, 01:08:52 AM
Hah.
We probably have more governments per capita than any other country in the world. Seven, man.
Six if we merge the flemish ones, which honestly you could do.
But still.
Being part French, I see Belgians as tied to bureacracy. Being part Dutch, I see Belgians as libertines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXyO_MC9g3k
This guy will be fun to watch. Unless you're British...
Indeed, since seems your videos blocked from showing here in the UK.
Really!? It's just John Oliver talking about Britain's newest clown prince, Boris Johnson.
Well it says video not available. Guessing its region locked
I'd be annoyed if I couldn't get john Oliver! That must really suck.
Unfortunately, since Germany/France is serious about world conquest ... it will come down to war. It was GB that declared war on Germany. They may have to do it again, given the totalitarian direction the Germans are marching toward (with their Vichy poodle).
Quote from: Unbeliever on July 29, 2019, 02:16:15 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXyO_MC9g3k
This guy will be fun to watch. Unless you're British...
LOL yeah. Just saw it. I posted that to the Last person thread and then wanted to move it here and saw yours.
I sure hope the Trumpification of the world's nations doesn't become a trend! That would really suck, bigly.
If you think Theresa May fucked the Brexit deal up, I got bad news for you about Boris.
Quote from: Sal1981 on July 30, 2019, 01:49:49 PM
If you think Theresa May fucked the Brexit deal up, I got bad news for you about Boris.
The EU Deal - Like 1940, we check you in, but you can never check out.
The May Deal - like Hotel California, you can check yourself in, but you can never check out.
The Johnson Deal - like Venezuela, you get tossed out on No Confidence, get Corbyn in, and you can never check out.
Quote from: Unbeliever on July 30, 2019, 01:47:53 PM
I sure hope the Trumpification of the world's nations doesn't become a trend! That would really suck, bigly.
Let me ask, if trump hadn't become president, would the term be hillification?
I think Clinton would've been better than Trump, but of course, I could be wrong.
Quote from: Munch on July 30, 2019, 03:17:12 PM
Let me ask, if trump hadn't become president, would the term be hillification?
No, Clintonification ... Bill and Hill are inseparable.
Quote from: Unbeliever on July 30, 2019, 03:24:32 PM
I think Clinton would've been better than Trump, but of course, I could be wrong.
Fuck, even the Shrub looks good in comparison to Lord Dampnut.
Quote from: Munch on July 30, 2019, 03:17:12 PM
Let me ask, if trump hadn't become president, would the term be hillification?
No, since the candidates winning in those countries (or in Boris's case, being promoted to power) are very markedly not like Hillary.
And no, that is not implying that Hillary is something better. Just a different type of shit.
QuoteI think Clinton would've been better than Trump, but of course, I could be wrong.
The more I learn about the Clintons, the more I question that.
But the same class of people who buy their politics buy Trumps'... Trump just has the decency (or the stupidity) to not hide it. Either way, what the voter wants or gets is irrelevant; it's the generals, the corporations, the ultra-rich who really run the show and everything else is just spectacle to give an illusion of choice. There may be a handful of non-corrupt officials, but a handful of good people is irrelevant in an ocean of corruption.
Whoever spends the most money, has the most corrupt officials in their pocket, tinkers with the elections decides what happens in America. That's how empires work.
The only two solutions are to lose our empire status, or to kill the rich and create a dictatorship of the people and start the cycle all over again. It's a lose/lose situation.
Where there is money there is corruption, and immigrants wanting in on the action. This has been true of the US since Sec Treasury Alexander Hamilton managed to get the Revolutionary War debt paid off early. Early on the primary money was land. Then it was gold. Later it was war profiteering 1861-1865. After multiple starts and stops, it took a long time for the "The Old Man & The Sea" to reel us in ... into control thru the Bank of England, via the Federal Reserve. Being banker and manufacturers for WW I .. really helped the US bloom.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRORK3hQ0g0
This exactly defines ... how GB lost in the process of winning ....
The last 100 years has been constant expansion and warmongering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=notJuFGXQ9w
Y'all sure the South was as much wrong as the North?
Quote from: Shiranu on July 31, 2019, 01:17:54 AM
No, since the candidates winning in those countries (or in Boris's case, being promoted to power) are very markedly not like Hillary.
And no, that is not implying that Hillary is something better. Just a different type of shit.
The more I learn about the Clintons, the more I question that.
But the same class of people who buy their politics buy Trumps'... Trump just has the decency (or the stupidity) to not hide it. Either way, what the voter wants or gets is irrelevant; it's the generals, the corporations, the ultra-rich who really run the show and everything else is just spectacle to give an illusion of choice. There may be a handful of non-corrupt officials, but a handful of good people is irrelevant in an ocean of corruption.
Whoever spends the most money, has the most corrupt officials in their pocket, tinkers with the elections decides what happens in America. That's how empires work.
The only two solutions are to lose our empire status, or to kill the rich and create a dictatorship of the people and start the cycle all over again. It's a lose/lose situation.
Glad to see you now know the real truth behind the pageantry. As George Carlin once said, it's all bullshit.
And yes, at least people like trump and Boris show the bullshit without a mask, not in defense of them but I'd sooner someone show their real selves instead of hiding behind false banter and demeanors.
Don't vote for anyone, least you conscience will be clear when they eventually fuck people over.
Quote from: Unbeliever on July 30, 2019, 03:24:32 PM
I think Clinton would've been better than Trump, but of course, I could be wrong.
It is very hard to imagine ways in which Hillary Clinton could even possibly have done same bad or worse than Trump. And let us think about that.
1. We would be a respected member of the general world community.
2. Brexit would probably not be happening.
3. The Middle Class and the Lower Class (sorry, standard jargon) would be better off.
4. The Walmart Family would be 1% poorer and they wouldn't notice.
5. Donald Trump might be in jail for tax fraud.
6. "The Swamp" would be a lot less filthy.
7. And at a lower level.
8. "First Woman President" and not having to think about that any more.
9. Putin, Kim Jong-un, and other numerous dictators not admired by US President.
10. "R-E-S-P-E-C-T" is the norm for the US.
and
11. Washington Nationals baseball team wins the World Series (I can dream, right).
Dream on. You probably think the US and friends were good guys during the Cold War. Pfft.
Quote from: Baruch on August 01, 2019, 07:06:18 AM
Dream on. You probably think the US and friends were good guys during the Cold War. Pfft.
Cold War? Yeah. I was worried you were asking about WWII. The Soviet Alliance was dicier. Stalin was a real bastard (not actually suggesting anything about his Mother of course).
Quote from: Cavebear on August 01, 2019, 08:19:49 AM
Cold War? Yeah. I was worried you were asking about WWII. The Soviet Alliance was dicier. Stalin was a real bastard (not actually suggesting anything about his Mother of course).
Just because we fought the bad guys doesn't make "us" the good guys (which is not to say there weren't good individuals fighting the Nazis).
Just look at Operation Paperclip, or even worse our deals with the Japanese Unit 731 (who made the Nazis look like saints) and you will see we never really had a problem with evil, we just had a problem with the Russians becoming too powerful and had to step in to make sure they didn't conquer Europe.
Most Americans didn't even seem to have much interest in taking down Hitler (infact, many of our major companies and banks were supporting him), they just wanted revenge against the Japanese... which of course we only wanted revenge against after we provoked them into a fight... and of course we only did that because the Japanese Empire was stretching it's borders towards our own colonial holdings and interests in the Far East.
Hardly the behaviour of "good guys".
We haven't been "the good guys" in a long time, if ever. We may have been the "better" guys, but certainly not the good ones.
History vs Cartoons. Engaging with adulthood vs childhood is ... hard.
Quote from: Shiranu on August 02, 2019, 03:08:15 AM
Just because we fought the bad guys doesn't make "us" the good guys (which is not to say there weren't good individuals fighting the Nazis).
Just look at Operation Paperclip, or even worse our deals with the Japanese Unit 731 (who made the Nazis look like saints) and you will see we never really had a problem with evil, we just had a problem with the Russians becoming too powerful and had to step in to make sure they didn't conquer Europe.
Most Americans didn't even seem to have much interest in taking down Hitler (infact, many of our major companies and banks were supporting him), they just wanted revenge against the Japanese... which of course we only wanted revenge against after we provoked them into a fight... and of course we only did that because the Japanese Empire was stretching it's borders towards our own colonial holdings and interests in the Far East.
Hardly the behaviour of "good guys".
We haven't been "the good guys" in a long time, if ever. We may have been the "better" guys, but certainly not the good ones.
War is hell, and no one does it kindly. I hate the phrase "mistakes were made" as if they were inevitable, but mistakes were made. In wars, people panic. They go extreme. That's never good, but sometimes, not being crueler than "The Other Side" is best that can be managed.
Sometimes nations fall apart under stress and desperately want to regain what they have lost even when they don't hate the people they fight. They shouldn't, but they do. Some things in history seem unstoppable. Tojo did not want to attack the US, Hitler didn't really want the US in his war. Stalin took what the US gave to protect his country (evil bastard that he was) and then realized he hand a good gain going. The Russians feared Germany and Europe in general for good reason. (Napoleon, Hitler). No one ever feels safe in Europe.
I could get into Brexit here (Europe is only at peace when Britain, France, and Germany are at peace), but that is a different discussion today.
I fully agree that were atrocities on all sides in every war. No nation is perfect. I would argue that there matters of degrees, but cruelty is cruelty and no one is immune.
And I could argue details about the Japanese in China and Indochina. But, not here, not now. You would lose. And I don't need that either...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 05, 2019, 10:49:17 AM
War is hell, and no one does it kindly. I hate the phrase "mistakes were made" as if they were inevitable, but mistakes were made. In wars, people panic. They go extreme. That's never good, but sometimes, not being crueler than "The Other Side" is best that can be managed.
Sometimes nations fall apart under stress and desperately want to regain what they have lost even when they don't hate the people they fight. They shouldn't, but they do. Some things in history seem unstoppable. Tojo did not want to attack the US, Hitler didn't really want the US in his war. Stalin took what the US gave to protect his country (evil bastard that he was) and then realized he hand a good gain going. The Russians feared Germany and Europe in general for good reason. (Napoleon, Hitler). No one ever feels safe in Europe.
I could get into Brexit here (Europe is only at peace when Britain, France, and Germany are at peace), but that is a different discussion today.
I fully agree that were atrocities on all sides in every war. No nation is perfect. I would argue that there matters of degrees, but cruelty is cruelty and no one is immune.
And I could argue details about the Japanese in China and Indochina. But, not here, not now. You would lose. And I don't need that either...
Correct. Winners get to be hypocrites ... Versailles, Nuremberg, Tokyo. I am still awed by Gen McArthur in Tokyo 1945. Not that he did much else right.
As a matter of curiosity, how many other think Boris won't even make it to the Brexit date without losing a confidence vote?
Quote from: trdsf on August 06, 2019, 02:29:32 AM
As a matter of curiosity, how many other think Boris won't even make it to the Brexit date without losing a confidence vote?
Hmmm, I'll take that bet.
The question is not 'Will Boris make it or not'. He won't even try. There is no plan B. No deal.
To keep British sovereignty ... Oliver Cromwell 2.0. Then resumption of British military predation against Ireland, France and Germany.
The inherent contradictions in the British system of government, that have festered for over 100 years .... will generate bad karma.
With collapse of GB, or no-deal Brexit ... or those are the same thing ... then Paris and Berlin will economically collapse. Hopefully Putin can restore order. 200 years ago, Russia was a part of the peace guarantee.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on August 06, 2019, 05:12:36 AM
The question is not 'Will Boris make it or not'. He won't even try. There is no plan B. No deal.
The EU can't compromise ... if they do, then Italy leaves etc. So Europe will have to go over the waterfall together.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ez8gZmHJ0s
But there is redemption with penance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnXN-mRFoPI
Colonialism ends badly for the Europeans. EU is Europe colonizing itself since there are no more New Worlds.
Quote from: Baruch on August 05, 2019, 12:20:50 PM
Correct. Winners get to be hypocrites ... Versailles, Nuremberg, Tokyo. I am still awed by Gen McArthur in Tokyo 1945. Not that he did much else right.
Hypocrites are people who don't believe what they say. That isn't the case here. Leaders who have massive egos and delusions of grandeur often truly believe what they say. I suspect even Nixon didn't think he was "a crook". And then are the lies all diplomats have to say sometimes ("I think X is a true leader of his people"). Is a statement hypocracy when no one even expects it to be a true thought?
If it helps, I will agree that winners write history. We Americans are very good at it.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 08, 2019, 09:58:46 AM
Hypocrites are people who don't believe what they say. That isn't the case here. Leaders who have massive egos and delusions of grandeur often truly believe what they say. I suspect even Nixon didn't think he was "a crook". And then are the lies all diplomats have to say sometimes ("I think X is a true leader of his people"). Is a statement hypocracy when no one even expects it to be a true thought?
If it helps, I will agree that winners write history. We Americans are very good at it.
Yes, iiars all around. Unless one eats one's own dogwood. I was mentioning the fact that the US has routinely committed war crimes since the American Revolution.
Everything is psychology ... here is Brexit analyzed by a shrink ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiMqjWeNOsc
Quote from: Munch on July 29, 2019, 04:49:58 PM
Indeed, since seems your videos blocked from showing here in the UK.
Try this:
https://www.wikihow.com/Bypass-YouTube%27s-Regional-Filter
Quote from: drunkenshoe on August 06, 2019, 05:12:36 AM
The question is not 'Will Boris make it or not'. He won't even try. There is no plan B. No deal.
France/Germany only negotiate to unconditional surrender of Anglophones, world wide. Not going to happen. 3rd world war will be Russian/American/British against France/Germany? Hard to imagine, but things change fast. Personally not opposed to anyone, but that never works out.
"Corbyn’s Plan to End Democracy and Brexit" ... if there is a no confidence vote, that doesn't terminate the current Brexit cycle (delay or suspend law to leave) soon enough vis-a-vis 10/31, a General Election that will result ... then Labor, not a coalition, gets to force the Queen to declare a one party state under Corbyn. Labor is not willing to work with the other Remainers. Marxists are marxist. Single party tyranny, full on Venezuela. And Macron/Merkel want to imprison Tory MPs that they disapprove of ... for violating the absolute power of Brussels. Awhile back, I posted a alternative history scenario by a Russian military history fan, whether France can defeat GB. The answer is ... no. Germany has no navy.
Quote from: Baruch on August 09, 2019, 05:49:04 PM
"Corbyn’s Plan to End Democracy and Brexit" ... if there is a no confidence vote, that doesn't terminate the current Brexit cycle (delay or suspend law to leave) soon enough vis-a-vis 10/31, a General Election that will result ... then Labor, not a coalition, gets to force the Queen to declare a one party state under Corbyn. Labor is not willing to work with the other Remainers. Marxists are marxist. Single party tyranny, full on Venezuela. And Macron/Merkel want to imprison Tory MPs that they disapprove of ... for violating the absolute power of Brussels. Awhile back, I posted a alternative history scenario by a Russian military history fan, whether France can defeat GB. The answer is ... no. Germany has no navy.
It would be strange to visit inside that head of yours, for only a minute.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on August 10, 2019, 02:17:22 AM
It would be strange to visit inside that head of yours, for only a minute.
Ignore all non BBC non Guardian media in GB? And get all opinions on this from French or German media? I survey it all, and the bias is massive and understandable. There are a few British sources that are objective, but not many. The whole thing is a great tragedy for all sides. But without the coming catharsis, there can be no progress.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on August 10, 2019, 02:17:22 AM
It would be strange to visit inside that head of yours, for only a minute.
I don't think you would like to be in there. It wouldn't be "strange", it would be very disturbing. And a minute might be longer than you wanted.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 12, 2019, 05:18:28 AM
I don't think you would like to be in there. It wouldn't be "strange", it would be very disturbing. And a minute might be longer than you wanted.
No catharsis for you. Just oatmeal with no sugar.
Quote from: Baruch on August 12, 2019, 06:51:15 AM
No catharsis for you. Just oatmeal with no sugar.
Vas is das "oat meal"?
Quote from: Cavebear on August 12, 2019, 10:57:42 PM
Vas is das "oat meal"?
So where were you when Hitler died in the bunker?
Quote from: Baruch on August 12, 2019, 11:34:22 PM
So where were you when Hitler died in the bunker?
I wasn't even a gleam in Dad's eye. He was busy building submarines in Portsmouth NH, and Mom was busy being a teen in MA.
Nice to see you admit that Hitler died though. You tend toward conspiracies.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 13, 2019, 01:23:06 AM
I wasn't even a gleam in Dad's eye. He was busy building submarines in Portsmouth NH, and Mom was busy being a teen in MA.
Nice to see you admit that Hitler died though. You tend toward conspiracies.
I posted a wonderful "Hitler in Argentina" documentary a month or two ago. Eyewitness reports.
Quote from: Baruch on August 13, 2019, 01:53:04 AM
I posted a wonderful "Hitler in Argentina" documentary a month or two ago. Eyewitness reports.
Hanging out with Elvis, and Diana, for sure.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on August 13, 2019, 02:38:01 AM
Hanging out with Elvis, and Diana, for sure.
Baruch sure has an eye for the useless and conspiracy...
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on August 13, 2019, 02:38:01 AM
Hanging out with Elvis, and Diana, for sure.
With Merkel and Macron. The undead are a sociable lot, if not socialist.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 13, 2019, 02:41:43 AM
Baruch sure has an eye for the useless and conspiracy...
You quoted Mr Obvious. That leaves the interpretation ... un-obvious.
Of course resistance is useless, if not futile. And the hive mind of the Dem Borg ... isn't a conspiracy.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 13, 2019, 02:41:43 AM
Baruch sure has an eye for the useless and conspiracy...
You give him too much credit. I'm sure he's going to bank that for his retirement years.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 13, 2019, 06:21:46 AM
You give him too much credit. I'm sure he's going to bank that for his retirement years.
I hope to avoid the mental decay I find among seniors here ;-( You are the Left version of PR126.
Quote from: Baruch on August 13, 2019, 06:23:58 AM
I hope to avoid the mental decay I find among seniors here ;-( You are the Left version of PR126.
Didn't I say in the early years, this forum had a lot of right-wing nuts. To them I was on the Left. Then came a drastic change. When the left-wing nuts took over in numbers, they took me to be on the Right. So that you see me as Left, means you are a right-wing nut.
BTW during the period of the left-wing takeover on AF, I was one of the few who would occasionally side with PR...
Now if you find me to be more critical of the Right, that's because they are in POWER. If ever the left-wing takes over the Dem party and gets into the WH, I will criticize them whenever they will be doing something silly or dangerous.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 13, 2019, 07:28:41 AM
Now if you find me to be more critical of the Right, that's because they are in POWER. If ever the left-wing takes over the Dem party and gets into the WH, I will criticize them whenever they will be doing something silly or dangerous.
When the left is in power, I will defend the most crazy thing they do by citing something stupid Trump did. This should make perfect sense to at least one forum member who thinks this is a rational defense for the dumbest things possible. Just cite something dumb the person you hate the most on the other side did, whether it's relevant or not. If it catches on, the logical members of the forum can call it an Argumentum ad Tump, but bridge players may prefer calling it "playing the trump card," which is the name I prefer, because it's kind of clever and avoids recognizing how stupid the tactic is.
Quote from: SGOS on August 13, 2019, 08:31:06 AM
When the left is in power, I will defend the most crazy thing they do by citing something stupid Trump did. This should make perfect sense to at least one forum member who thinks this is a rational defense for the dumbest things possible. Just cite something dumb the person you hate the most on the other side did, whether it's relevant or not. If it catches on, the logical members of the forum can call it an Argumentum ad Tump, but bridge players may prefer calling it "playing the trump card," which is the name I prefer, because it's kind of clever and avoids recognizing how stupid the tactic is.
It's one of the major problems: people see political choices as binary - Marxism (Left) and Fascism (Right). The third choice is democracy, but democracy is not given - you won't find it anywhere in nature ;-). It has to be built against headstrong winds - both Right and Left's major strategy is to undermine democracy at every opportunity. Both want totalitarian regime. If you believe in democracy, then you don't want either the Right or the Left to get more and more power, as once you get too far, the process is irreversible - hence totalitarianism.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 13, 2019, 07:28:41 AM
Didn't I say in the early years, this forum had a lot of right-wing nuts. To them I was on the Left. Then came a drastic change. When the left-wing nuts took over in numbers, they took me to be on the Right. So that you see me as Left, means you are a right-wing nut.
BTW during the period of the left-wing takeover on AF, I was one of the few who would occasionally side with PR...
Now if you find me to be more critical of the Right, that's because they are in POWER. If ever the left-wing takes over the Dem party and gets into the WH, I will criticize them whenever they will be doing something silly or dangerous.
Today you are to the Left of Stalin.
Quote from: SGOS on August 13, 2019, 08:31:06 AM
When the left is in power, I will defend the most crazy thing they do by citing something stupid Trump did. This should make perfect sense to at least one forum member who thinks this is a rational defense for the dumbest things possible. Just cite something dumb the person you hate the most on the other side did, whether it's relevant or not. If it catches on, the logical members of the forum can call it an Argumentum ad Tump, but bridge players may prefer calling it "playing the trump card," which is the name I prefer, because it's kind of clever and avoids recognizing how stupid the tactic is.
The Left is already attacking itself, wanting to cut off all right hands.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 13, 2019, 09:19:13 AM
It's one of the major problems: people see political choices as binary - Marxism (Left) and Fascism (Right). The third choice is democracy, but democracy is not given - you won't find it anywhere in nature ;-). It has to be built against headstrong winds - both Right and Left's major strategy is to undermine democracy at every opportunity. Both want totalitarian regime. If you believe in democracy, then you don't want either the Right or the Left to get more and more power, as once you get too far, the process is irreversible - hence totalitarianism.
Unfortunately no longer true. The only two political geniuses of the 20th century were Hitler and Stalin. Putin is correct, Liberalism is a losing strategy. Beta male strategy always looses to alpha male strategy. Beta males are cucks to their own women, who would prefer alpha males if there were enough available. Hence INCELs.
Quote from: Baruch on August 13, 2019, 10:35:32 AM
Today you are to the Left of Stalin.
I thought it would never happened - your reading skills are getting worse. According to Shirani et al I'm on the far right. I guess you didn't get the memo...
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 13, 2019, 09:19:13 AM
It's one of the major problems: people see political choices as binary - Marxism (Left) and Fascism (Right).
That's the way the system has evolved, and while I find fault with voters who think of politics as binary, I recognize that they are dealing with a system that forces people to think in binary terms. I see the two parties actively engaged in reinforcing this limited view and worse, actively prohibiting the involvement of ideas outside the two party interests. We call this democracy, and I think democracy was the original intention, but our system has evolved into a corruption of democracy. I don't think what we actually have is a democracy, and calling it one doesn't make it so. It's what the leadership wants, and the citizenry accepts because they are given no other option.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 14, 2019, 04:24:26 AM
I thought it would never happened - your reading skills are getting worse. According to Shirani et al I'm on the far right. I guess you didn't get the memo...
He hasn't been paying attention to you then. Shiranu is fleeing to Canada. I wish him well. When are you returning to Venezuela?
@SGOS - woke and moderate
Quote from: SGOS on August 14, 2019, 07:51:47 AM
That's the way the system has evolved, and while I find fault with voters who think of politics as binary, I recognize that they are dealing with a system that forces people to think in binary terms. I see the two parties actively engaged in reinforcing this limited view and worse, actively prohibiting the involvement of ideas outside the two party interests. We call this democracy, and I think democracy was the original intention, but our system has evolved into a corruption of democracy. I don't think what we actually have is a democracy, and calling it one doesn't make it so. It's what the leadership wants, and the citizenry accepts because they are given no other option.
The FF were aware of this could take place and that it could lead to tyranny. It's why they divided power among three branches - executive, legislative and judiciary. It's also incumbent that the population is well informed and that the press be free from political retaliation. So regardless of which party is in power, Dem or Repug, the priority of everyone of us is to make sure the core of our democracy remains intact. No point of blaming who is responsible for the erosion, but we are getting close to a tipping point. And the next election could very well be that tipping point.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 14, 2019, 09:40:17 AM
The FF were aware of this could take place and that it could lead to tyranny. It's why they divided power among three branches - executive, legislative and judiciary. It's also incumbent that the population is well informed and that the press be free from political retaliation. So regardless of which party is in power, Dem or Repug, the priority of everyone of us is to make sure the core of our democracy remains intact. No point of blaming who is responsible for the erosion, but we are getting close to a tipping point. And the next election could very well be that tipping point.
I wish the founders were successful. They failed immediately with Alexander Hamilton. Then with Aaron Burr .. and things continued to crap out until Mr Lincoln had to cut Jefferson Davis a new a-hole. And that greatly strengthened the Federal government. Probably necessary, but farther from the utopia of Virgina slave planters that Washington and Jefferson imagined.
The three way government structure was written up by John Locke (irrelevant in the British monarchy), who got it in turn from Aristotle, whose idea was immediately irrelevant, since he was a Macedonian toady.
Quote from: Baruch on August 14, 2019, 02:04:41 PM
I wish the founders were successful. They failed immediately with Alexander Hamilton. Then with Aaron Burr .. and things continued to crap out until Mr Lincoln had to cut Jefferson Davis a new a-hole. And that greatly strengthened the Federal government. Probably necessary, but farther from the utopia of Virgina slave planters that Washington and Jefferson imagined.
The division of power is not a guarantee - nothing is, except death. But it is the best attempt to avoid the communist/fascist tendency to a totalitarian regime. A democracy is difficult to build, and more difficult to maintain. But all of us must do our part, no matter how small.
QuoteThe three way government structure was written up by John Locke (irrelevant in the British monarchy), who got it in turn from Aristotle, whose idea was immediately irrelevant, since he was a Macedonian toady.
Irrelevant. Granted democracy is an experiment, which has failed in the past. If it fails again, it will be due to apathy and negligence - our fault, no one else to blame.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 14, 2019, 02:50:43 PM
The division of power is not a guarantee - nothing is, except death. But it is the best attempt to avoid the communist/fascist tendency to a totalitarian regime. A democracy is difficult to build, and more difficult to maintain. But all of us must do our part, no matter how small.
Irrelevant. Granted democracy is an experiment, which has failed in the past. If it fails again, it will be due to apathy and negligence - our fault, no one else to blame.
Not seeking blame. Or termination of foolishness. Not my place. Where do I get that? Not from natural law.
Quote from: Baruch on August 14, 2019, 07:41:56 PM
Not seeking blame. Or termination of foolishness. Not my place. Where do I get that? Not from natural law.
All politics is not natural. What's your point?
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 14, 2019, 07:51:06 PM
All politics is not natural. What's your point?
Oops, your Freudian slip is showing ...
Quote from: Baruch on August 14, 2019, 07:57:02 PM
Oops, your Freudian slip is showing ...
Are you ever dumb? Freud has nothing to do with natural law or politics. Bedtime for you...
QuoteAccording to Shirani et al I'm on the far right.
I don't even know who you are, but sure.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 14, 2019, 08:08:07 PM
Are you ever dumb? Freud has nothing to do with natural law or politics. Bedtime for you...
No sense of humor, or just no sense?
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 13, 2019, 06:21:46 AM
You give him too much credit. I'm sure he's going to bank that for his retirement years.
I am sometimes too kind to the nuts of the world who don't realize they are...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 15, 2019, 03:13:42 AM
I am sometimes too kind to the nuts of the world who don't realize they are...
I stole the Monopoly money out of all the game boxes at Toys-R-Us.
I like nuts. Almonds, cashews and brazil nuts mostly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bnx95KyQEAA
Ah yes, Feminism.
Quote from: Baruch on August 15, 2019, 03:16:55 AM
I stole the Monopoly money out of all the game boxes at Toys-R-Us.
A young child was arrested for trying to offer game money for food at school recently. It gets worse. One was arrested for using a $20 bill that looked real. A 10 year old was arrested for using a $10 bill he found on the floor.
You could be in jail...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 15, 2019, 08:21:14 AM
A young child was arrested for trying to offer game money for food at school recently. It gets worse. One was arrested for using a $20 bill that looked real. A 10 year old was arrested for using a $10 bill he found on the floor.
You could be in jail...
Yep, famously the boy who bit the shape of a gun out of his pb&j sandwich ...
Quote from: Baruch on August 15, 2019, 03:10:44 AM
No sense of humor, or just no sense?
Again emulating your idol Trump. When caught on a blunder, pretend you were joking.
"Angela Merkel sinks German economy, hands over control of EU to Macron" .. and Macron is heading for a Yellow Jacket guillotine. Europe? Sad ;-(
Quote from: Baruch on August 15, 2019, 04:33:21 PM
"Angela Merkel sinks German economy, hands over control of EU to Macron" .. and Macron is heading for a Yellow Jacket guillotine. Europe? Sad ;-(
Their big loss is in the trade department - 3rd largest exporter in the world. Thanks to Trump and his trade war. China is one of the biggest import of German cars. Merkel must be swearing. But the Germans could stimulate their economy with an expansionary deficit budget. However due their own law on balancing the budget, that is not an option.The best they can hope is a lowering of interest from the European Central bank.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 15, 2019, 06:25:11 PM
Their big loss is in the trade department - 3rd largest exporter in the world. Thanks to Trump and his trade war. China is one of the biggest import of German cars. Merkel must be swearing. But the Germans could stimulate their economy with an expansionary deficit budget. However due their own law on balancing the budget, that is not an option.The best they can hope is a lowering of interest from the European Central bank.
The only way to save local jobs, from global overcapacity, and the ability to ship cheaply by container ship, is to destroy global trade ;-( This is the larger version of the overcapacity of the 1920s, that led to ...
Quote from: Baruch on August 16, 2019, 01:23:39 AM
The only way to save local jobs, from global overcapacity, and the ability to ship cheaply by container ship, is to destroy global trade ;-( This is the larger version of the overcapacity of the 1920s, that led to ...
Mercantilism was tried in the 16th to 18th century... didn't work then, won't work now...
1929-Depression was a result of margin accounts. Great when the stock market is rising, deadly when it's going down. It has a snowball effect: the more people sold, the more other people had to sell. Therefore, big crash.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 16, 2019, 07:56:00 AM
Mercantilism was tried in the 16th to 18th century... didn't work then, won't work now...
1929-Depression was a result of margin accounts. Great when the stock market is rising, deadly when it's going down. It has a snowball effect: the more people sold, the more other people had to sell. Therefore, big crash.
China and Germany are trying hard anyway. China will eat Germany alive. But as seconds. The Muslims get to eat Germany alive first.
Margin accounts magnified the problems of overcapacity (you know that there is more than one parameter in a second order ordinary differential equation, right?) In homogenous format, three of them (impacting by mechanical analogy: acceleration, velocity and displacement). The actual econometrics has evil forcing functions, it isn't homogeneous. And the first great ponzi by Mr Ponzi didn't help. Financial people are greater liars than politicians.
Here are the lectures of Dr Keene. One of the few economists who isn't a paid shill. ODE not used much in economics, because they aren't educated much past elementary algebra ;-)
http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/lectures/
You probably remember from Control Theory, that if you try to simultaneously control two of three parameters, it can be done with difficulty. But trying to control all three (displacement, velocity and acceleration) is inherently chaotic. There is no forcing function that will allow that as steady state.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 16, 2019, 07:56:00 AM
Mercantilism was tried in the 16th to 18th century... didn't work then, won't work now...
1929-Depression was a result of margin accounts. Great when the stock market is rising, deadly when it's going down. It has a snowball effect: the more people sold, the more other people had to sell. Therefore, big crash.
Whether tulip bulbs in Holland or houses in America, people love a good speculative bubble.
Quote from: aileron on August 16, 2019, 05:36:12 PM
Whether tulip bulbs in Holland or houses in America, people love a good speculative bubble.
As long as someone else is left holding the bag. You know that Senore Casanova was the original financial speculator. Had a good competition with John Law. Casanova invented the lotto. John Law invented penny stock speculation.
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.†- Upton Sinclair
More Dr Keene ...
http://www.profstevekeen.com
Quote from: Baruch on August 16, 2019, 05:38:30 PM
As long as someone else is left holding the bag. You know that Senore Casanova was the original financial speculator. Had a good competition with John Law. Casanova invented the lotto. John Law invented penny stock speculation.
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.†- Upton Sinclair
More Dr Keene ...
http://www.profstevekeen.com
Heh, the house always wins...
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 16, 2019, 07:56:00 AM
Mercantilism was tried in the 16th to 18th century... didn't work then, won't work now...
1929-Depression was a result of margin accounts. Great when the stock market is rising, deadly when it's going down. It has a snowball effect: the more people sold, the more other people had to sell. Therefore, big crash.
I'll generally agree with that...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 20, 2019, 08:58:46 AM
I'll generally agree with that...
Merchantilism worked fine within the closed British Pound network. This wasn't fully broken until 1945 (Bretton Woods), bankrupted by two world wars. It was replaced with the Dollar network until 1971. Basically anyone still choosing to trade in dollars for inter-nation trade, rather than their native currency, is automatically paying a import/export sales tax to the US for the privilege. This is the same as in local commerce using debit vs credit card. If you use a credit card the merchant is paying about 4% of their money over to VISA/MC.
Merchantilism isn't just having the dominant currency, it is always running a trade surplus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of_trade
Green countries are net exporters (proto-mercantilist). The US can run a trade deficit because of export of dollars to equal the imbalance, but also for inter-state trade, not just the net US trade. Many net exporters are suppliers of raw materials. Only Germany and China are net exporters of manufactured goods on a large scale. That and the fact that they run this surplus year to year ... makes them mercantilist. Since 2000, in infra-EU trade, Germany runs the net surplus to their benefit and the detriment of the others. Hence the pressure for Brexit. Basically GB is paying for campaign promises by German politicians, for German citizens.
US has been a net-importer since 1971 (end of Bretton-Woods). The US export of dollars subsidizes world trade in general, and mercantilism by Germany and China in particular (they hold US bonds). This is partially true of GB, where the British Pound still exists as an independent reserve currency. Regional control of a currency acts as a lever to support mercantilism, hence the need for the Euro and the Yuan. Hence the importance of NYC and London. If the EU and China used dollars, all supplied by the US for all trade internal and external (as some S American countries have done, to stop local inflation), the US would be skimming 5% of their GDP back to the US ... this is how the British Empire worked, with the leverage the British Pound gave, originally in silver, but ultimately in gold. This is why colonial control over silver and gold supplies were so important, because fiat money wasn't yet fully accepted, until WW I.
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2019, 09:53:52 AM
Merchantilism worked fine within the closed British Pound network. This wasn't fully broken until 1945 (Bretton Woods), bankrupted by two world wars. It was replaced with the Dollar network until 1971. Basically anyone still choosing to trade in dollars for inter-nation trade, rather than their native currency, is automatically paying a import/export sales tax to the US for the privilege. This is the same as in local commerce using debit vs credit card. If you use a credit card the merchant is paying about 4% of their money over to VISA/MC.
Merchantilism isn't just having the dominant currency, it is always running a trade surplus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of_trade
Green countries are net exporters (proto-mercantilist). The US can run a trade deficit because of export of dollars to equal the imbalance, but also for inter-state trade, not just the net US trade. Many net exporters are suppliers of raw materials. Only Germany and China are net exporters of manufactured goods on a large scale. That and the fact that they run this surplus year to year ... makes them mercantilist. Since 2000, in infra-EU trade, Germany runs the net surplus to their benefit and the detriment of the others. Hence the pressure for Brexit. Basically GB is paying for campaign promises by German politicians, for German citizens.
US has been a net-importer since 1971 (end of Bretton-Woods). The US export of dollars subsidizes world trade in general, and mercantilism by Germany and China in particular (they hold US bonds). This is partially true of GB, where the British Pound still exists as an independent reserve currency. Regional control of a currency acts as a lever to support mercantilism, hence the need for the Euro and the Yuan. Hence the importance of NYC and London. If the EU and China used dollars, all supplied by the US for all trade internal and external (as some S American countries have done, to stop local inflation), the US would be skimming 5% of their GDP back to the US ... this is how the British Empire worked, with the leverage the British Pound gave, originally in silver, but ultimately in gold. This is why colonial control over silver and gold supplies were so important, because fiat money wasn't yet fully accepted, until WW I.
This is why we keep you around...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 20, 2019, 11:27:35 AM
This is why we keep you around...
Only you will read it probably. And I am not sure about that. I can't predict in advance, what will trigger a significant post. But I do have a good base in economics, because I follow Steve Keene, and I mostly don't believe the advocacy folks, they are playing their book.
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2019, 11:41:42 AM
Only you will read it probably. And I am not sure about that. I can't predict in advance, what will trigger a significant post. But I do have a good base in economics, because I follow Steve Keene, and I mostly don't believe the advocacy folks, they are playing their book.
Everyone probably has some idea they completely accept, even if it is only their own (like me). For example, I know I exist because my cat Marley has no doubt of it. Ego quod meum est facio cogitat cattus.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 20, 2019, 12:27:47 PM
Everyone probably has some idea they completely accept, even if it is only their own (like me). For example, I know I exist because my cat Marley has no doubt of it. Ego quod meum est facio cogitat cattus.
That means nothing. Hitler is correct then. Lebensraum. Not cogent vs economics as a topic.
The popular view of economics is so primitive and gullible, it is possible for politics/grifting to happen.
Examples: I only have to work because I am being oppressed. I would be a millionaire, either with or without working, but the millionaires are hoarding all the money.
I once tried years ago, to put up a basic model of economics, but Joe shut it down, with all the 21st century BS. Jargon, equations ... all the academic shit. I can't interest my own daughter in basic thinking, because thinking is hard, and it is easy to be the mindless sheep of one lying faction or another. People want to be told comforting answers, not have to think it out for themselves. Though basic economics requires no more than arithmetic. I only have a few more years left to convince her that communism is wrong (most Millennials are communists).
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2019, 02:08:18 PM
That means nothing. Hitler is correct then. Lebensraum. Not cogent vs economics as a topic.
The popular view of economics is so primitive and gullible, it is possible for politics/grifting to happen.
Examples: I only have to work because I am being oppressed. I would be a millionaire, either with or without working, but the millionaires are hoarding all the money.
I once tried years ago, to put up a basic model of economics, but Joe shut it down, with all the 21st century BS. Jargon, equations ... all the academic shit. I can't interest my own daughter in basic thinking, because thinking is hard, and it is easy to be the mindless sheep of one lying faction or another. People want to be told comforting answers, not have to think it out for themselves. Though basic economics requires no more than arithmetic. I only have a few more years left to convince her that communism is wrong (most Millennials are communists).
I didn't realize how bitter you were about life. I sure did work to get money to live, but I did it honestly and with interest in what I did because I sought challenging jobs and got what mental pleasure I could from them. (a lot). And when I retired (ASAP) I've also enjoyed these 13 years and expect more to come because I do interesting things in retement as well. For example, last year I set up a flowerbed for bees and butterflies and accidentally seeded it with Njger seed meant for the finch feeder. The bed is crazy with orange nyger flowers. LOL!
I won't do that next year, but I'll plant saved seeds of other kinds.
No, most millenials seem to be entrepenurial socialist capitalists. You will never understand that. I don't quite either. I liked a steady salary and regular hours and I suspect that is gone for at least a few decades. I retired just in time...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 20, 2019, 02:29:12 PM
I didn't realize how bitter you were about life. I sure did work to get money to live, but I did it honestly and with interest in what I did because I sought challenging jobs and got what mental pleasure I could from them. (a lot). And when I retired (ASAP) I've also enjoyed these 13 years and expect more to come because I do interesting things in retement as well. For example, last year I set up a flowerbed for bees and butterflies and accidentally seeded it with Njger seed meant for the finch feeder. The bed is crazy with orange nyger flowers. LOL!
I won't do that next year, but I'll plant saved seeds of other kinds.
No, most millenials seem to be entrepenurial socialist capitalists. You will never understand that. I don't quite either. I liked a steady salary and regular hours and I suspect that is gone for at least a few decades. I retired just in time...
My experience/interest extends beyond myself. Compared to a "Death by starvation" baby in Somalia, I have had it good. But I hear the cries of billions of people, and then silence. I am tied to all who have lived, are living, will live. Not just humans. How can I not be horrified, be bitter? I can hope for the Millennials (though I often don't claim hope, as a matter of policy). They may be young, but they are strong and will mature. Shiranu for example. They must not go quietly into the night. I won't. Though I expect to die any day, even today. The ravenous jaws of despair are always open.
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2019, 02:38:06 PM
My experience/interest extends beyond myself. Compared to a "Death by starvation" baby in Somalia, I have had it good. But I hear the cries of billions of people, and then silence. I am tied to all who have lived, are living, will live. Not just humans. How can I not be horrified, be bitter? I can hope for the Millennials (though I often don't claim hope, as a matter of policy). They may be young, but they are strong and will mature. Shiranu for example. They must not go quietly into the night. I won't. Though I expect to die any day, even today. The ravenous jaws of despair are always open.
Your depth of feeling shows when forced. And I admire what you said. How CAN we worry about a few dozen deaths per month by mass-murderers when so many more die by guns every day and MANY more die of starvation and disease every day?
I'm not making light of anything. Everytime you post thoughtfully, I am "happy in my head".
That was a very good post...
Very few care to listen to my beating heart. This world is almost as lonely as being marooned on the dark side of the Moon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUKw4qcGHZs
Neil Armstrong remembers his deceased daughter. I remember our loss of first pregnancy. My "son". This colors how I feel about abortion not just miscarriage.
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2019, 05:13:23 PM
Very few care to listen to my beating heart. This world is almost as lonely as being marooned on the dark side of the Moon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUKw4qcGHZs
Neil Armstrong remembers his deceased daughter. I remember our loss of first pregnancy. My "son". This colors how I feel about abortion not just miscarriage.
I can only slightly understand, never having been in that situation. But I do understand a post coming from the heart. Peace to you...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 20, 2019, 06:19:08 PM
I can only slightly understand, never having been in that situation. But I do understand a post coming from the heart. Peace to you...
But you have lost relatives you cared for?
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2019, 08:08:24 PM
But you have lost relatives you cared for?
4 Grandparents, a close cousin, both Parents, and one Sister... My first experience with death was the cousin. He drowned at 12. I somehow thought he would still be there when we visited the next Summer. It wasn't a good experience.
I don't think of any of them as watching over me if that's what you mean.
And I'll add this, which you don't NEED to know but may explain something about me. I want physical things of those cherished ones who have died/ To touch and use in memory... I asked about my cousin's telescope. Thr adults misunderstood. I got a telescope for Christmas that year. That wasnt' the point. I wanted something from my dead cousin. I never got it.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 20, 2019, 09:10:09 PM
4 Grandparents, a close cousin, both Parents, and one Sister... My first experience with death was the cousin. He drowned at 12. I somehow thought he would still be there when we visited the next Summer. It wasn't a good experience.
I don't think of any of them as watching over me if that's what you mean.
And I'll add this, which you don't NEED to know but may explain something about me. I want physical things of those cherished ones who have died/ To touch and use in memory... I asked about my cousin's telescope. Thr adults misunderstood. I got a telescope for Christmas that year. That wasnt' the point. I wanted something from my dead cousin. I never got it.
Yes, sad. I didn't have any direct contact with death until much later, when my father died. My father was traumatized at 9, he and a buddy were wading in the Rio Grande, at Eagle Pass, and quicksand took his friend. I don't think he ever got over that, and his mother, who unknown to him was his stepmother, died of breast cancer when he was about 9 too. His natural mother had died from the c-section he was born thru. The step mother was the nurse of his natural mother.
Economic war or military war? Given the stripping of the British armed forces, in the long run, the British would lose the war against the EU ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWhFZJmm0_Q
Baruch, dude, put this stuff in your own 'all I hear about this is nothing or whatever thread', would you?
Freedom of speech is great and all, but keep at least the semblance of staying on target.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on August 23, 2019, 01:59:21 PM
Baruch, dude, put this stuff in your own 'all I hear about this is nothing or whatever thread', would you?
Freedom of speech is great and all, but keep at least the semblance of staying on target.
Oops, done.
Quote from: Baruch on August 21, 2019, 12:11:16 AM
Yes, sad. I didn't have any direct contact with death until much later, when my father died. My father was traumatized at 9, he and a buddy were wading in the Rio Grande, at Eagle Pass, and quicksand took his friend. I don't think he ever got over that, and his mother, who unknown to him was his stepmother, died of breast cancer when he was about 9 too. His natural mother had died from the c-section he was born thru. The step mother was the nurse of his natural mother.
Personal tragedy strikes us all. But with 7 BILLION of us, it isn't very meaningful.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 24, 2019, 04:22:06 AM
Personal tragedy strikes us all. But with 7 BILLION of us, it isn't very meaningful.
So you agree with ... Stalin?
"A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic."
Quote from: Baruch on August 24, 2019, 08:58:27 AM
So you agree with ... Stalin?
"A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic."
In the course of human existence. "possibly".
Quote from: Cavebear on August 24, 2019, 09:22:22 AM
In the course of human existence. "possibly".
So Stalin is Chronos? Very disappointing comrade.
Quote from: Baruch on August 24, 2019, 11:36:50 AM
So Stalin is Chronos? Very disappointing comrade.
You constantly amaze me. And not saying anything good,
Quote from: Cavebear on August 24, 2019, 11:46:51 AM
You constantly amaze me. And not saying anything good,
I don't require you, to say anything good. I don't require that of myself (integrity, not hypocrisy).
In a desperate attempt to wrench this back on topic... wtf, Jeremy?
Yes, I think the idea of a caretaker PM upon a successful no-confidence vote dethroning Boris is a great idea to give the UK time to either negotiate a deal that can pass, or cancel Article 50 until there's some clarity as to what the public wants and what the government can actually deliver -- and hold a second referendum and a general election. If a majority think that there should be a no-deal Brexit, then no deal it is. If a majority feel now that they were misled by Leave last time, or never wanted to leave in the first place, then stay. Or whatever reasonable options should go on it.
But Jeremy, you can't possibly be so politically insensible that you don't know you're anathema not only to a decent chunk of the Tories, but to a chunk of your own party -- you know, the crypto-Blairites who think they're Thatcher Lite. If you had the wit to stand aside and let Ken Clarke or Harriet Harman be caretaker PM until a general election sorts things out, you'd probably win your no confidence vote and just might be able to cobble together a working majority in the inevitably-hung Parliament to come out of a general election.
I swear, Jeremy Corbyn, you have all the political sense and skill of a potato. Any other politician leading Labour would be in No. 10 by now, but you're determined to snatch as much defeat as you can from the jaws of victory.
What is fun, we don't know the future. Put in your bets while the horses are still running.
Will we know Nov 1? Not necessarily. The politics of Britain, with their unwritten constitution, is as slippery as a squid without a backbone. But much ink results.
"Macron Warns UK Could Become US Vassal State..." ... says Vichy 2.0, slave to 4th Reich, sucking up to Putin the Great. Lets make it clear, the Francophones and Germanophones have hated the Anglophones for 1000 years now. The UK, as Air Strip One ... is strategic to communist W Europe.
Quote from: trdsf on August 24, 2019, 03:30:31 PM
In a desperate attempt to wrench this back on topic... wtf, Jeremy?
Yes, I think the idea of a caretaker PM upon a successful no-confidence vote dethroning Boris is a great idea to give the UK time to either negotiate a deal that can pass, or cancel Article 50 until there's some clarity as to what the public wants and what the government can actually deliver -- and hold a second referendum and a general election. If a majority think that there should be a no-deal Brexit, then no deal it is. If a majority feel now that they were misled by Leave last time, or never wanted to leave in the first place, then stay. Or whatever reasonable options should go on it.
But Jeremy, you can't possibly be so politically insensible that you don't know you're anathema not only to a decent chunk of the Tories, but to a chunk of your own party -- you know, the crypto-Blairites who think they're Thatcher Lite. If you had the wit to stand aside and let Ken Clarke or Harriet Harman be caretaker PM until a general election sorts things out, you'd probably win your no confidence vote and just might be able to cobble together a working majority in the inevitably-hung Parliament to come out of a general election.
I swear, Jeremy Corbyn, you have all the political sense and skill of a potato. Any other politician leading Labour would be in No. 10 by now, but you're determined to snatch as much defeat as you can from the jaws of victory.
Well-wrenched!
Meanwhile, at least one British TV news chief has fucking well had it with pretty much everyone and everything. Most interesting is her call to start actually calling politicians liars when they lie (assuming the lie can be documented), since being polite about it doesn't make it clear to the viewers that they've just been lied to.
Dorothy Byrne, head of news and current affairs at Channel Four, giving this year's MacTaggart Lecture:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XIEFKEw4co
Quote from: trdsf on August 24, 2019, 05:02:20 PM
Meanwhile, at least one British TV news chief has fucking well had it with pretty much everyone and everything. Most interesting is her call to start actually calling politicians liars when they lie (assuming the lie can be documented), since being polite about it doesn't make it clear to the viewers that they've just been lied to.
Dorothy Byrne, head of news and current affairs at Channel Four, giving this year's MacTaggart Lecture:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XIEFKEw4co
I sometimes don't know how to reply to your excellent posts other than to agree with a LIKE. It's hard to go on at any length when I agree.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 24, 2019, 05:15:53 PM
I sometimes don't know how to reply to your excellent posts other than to agree with a LIKE. It's hard to go on at any length when I agree.
Aw, thank you. I try to have to actually have something to say when I say something... I'm sure I don't always succeed, but I do try.
I am just so monumentally disappointed with Corbyn. I mean, just imagine, the party on the left got a leader who was himself actually on the left!
How he got there I can't imagine, because he's proven himself to be politically incompetent. He's tried to have both sides of the Brexit debate, he completely mishandled the anti-semitism complaints against Labour, and now he's made what could (and should) have been a legitimate confidence motion on Boris look more like a power grab on his part.
And I thought American politics was fucked up... hey, Canada, it's up to you to carry the ball for democracy in the English-speaking world, northern hemisphere division.
(checks on Canada)
We're hosed.
Quote from: trdsf on August 24, 2019, 07:35:43 PM
Aw, thank you. I try to have to actually have something to say when I say something... I'm sure I don't always succeed, but I do try.
I am just so monumentally disappointed with Corbyn. I mean, just imagine, the party on the left got a leader who was himself actually on the left!
How he got there I can't imagine, because he's proven himself to be politically incompetent. He's tried to have both sides of the Brexit debate, he completely mishandled the anti-semitism complaints against Labour, and now he's made what could (and should) have been a legitimate confidence motion on Boris look more like a power grab on his part.
And I thought American politics was fucked up... hey, Canada, it's up to you to carry the ball for democracy in the English-speaking world, northern hemisphere division.
(checks on Canada)
We're hosed.
Screwy politics seems to be widespread these days. At one point (and probably will wonder again), I thought it was something like lead in water. But recently, I think it is more that really stupid people are gettijg better at finding like-minded idiots.
Maybe it used to be that only thoughtful intelligent people got connected.
And I am reminded of a supposition I once read... "The intelligence of the planet is a constant and the population is growing"...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 24, 2019, 04:46:23 PM
Well-wrenched!
Corbyn and McDonnell are old style Marxists. I think you and trdsf would like them ;-( No "in diapers" New Left for you!
BTW - If I posted every non BBC news about GB that I have watched for the last 8 months here, I would have another 35,000 posts. Don't tempt me!
Quote from: Cavebear on August 24, 2019, 05:15:53 PM
I sometimes don't know how to reply to your excellent posts other than to agree with a LIKE. It's hard to go on at any length when I agree.
Dorothy Byrne = BBC and SNP shill. Pure Pravda.
"The intelligence of the planet is a constant and the population is growing" - I still agree with that one.
Quote from: Baruch on August 24, 2019, 10:39:55 PM
Corbyn and McDonnell are old style Marxists. I am you and trdsf would like them ;-( No "in diapers" New Left for you!
BTW - If I posted every non BBC news about GB that I have watched for the last 8 months here, I would have another 35,000 posts. Don't tempt me!
Knock yourself out... Its not like you seem to have anything else to do in life.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 24, 2019, 11:11:55 PM
Knock yourself out... Its not like you seem to have anything else to do in life.
I do. But I type lightning fast ....
Quote from: Baruch on August 24, 2019, 11:14:00 PM
I do. But I type lightning fast ....
It shows. Fast isn't "quality".
Quote from: Cavebear on August 24, 2019, 11:51:02 PM
It shows. Fast isn't "quality".
Quality is over-rated.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 24, 2019, 09:29:06 PM
Screwy politics seems to be widespread these days. At one point (and probably will wonder again), I thought it was something like lead in water. But recently, I think it is more that really stupid people are gettijg better at finding like-minded idiots.
Maybe it used to be that only thoughtful intelligent people got connected.
And I am reminded of a supposition I once read... "The intelligence of the planet is a constant and the population is growing"...
First, the internet made it very easy for stupid to meet and greet stupid. And they did. Now social media in all its forms make it super simple for stupid to meet stupid and become more stupid. Faux news for example.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 25, 2019, 01:19:35 PM
First, the internet made it very easy for stupid to meet and greet stupid. And they did. Now social media in all its forms make it super simple for stupid to meet stupid and become more stupid. Faux news for example.
Yes. Writing with alphabet democratized communication. Must return to elite control, thru cuneiform and hieroglyphs ;-)
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 25, 2019, 01:19:35 PM
First, the internet made it very easy for stupid to meet and greet stupid. And they did. Now social media in all its forms make it super simple for stupid to meet stupid and become more stupid. Faux news for example.
It used to be that intelligent people communicated with other intelligent people in detail in thoughtful letters and stupid people just sat around in bars getting drunk and spouted nonsense that didn't travel far and was barely remembered the next morning.
Now, basically, the bars are published...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 27, 2019, 12:28:46 AM
It used to be that intelligent people communicated with other intelligent people in detail in thoughtful letters and stupid people just sat around in bars getting drunk and spouted nonsense that didn't travel far and was barely remembered the next morning.
Now, basically, the bars are published...
I don't think you were around in 1760s Paris. Neither was I. Funny how you are nostalgic for Dangerous Liaisons. Yes, the Internet is like an English pub, minus the stout, and magnified village idiocy.
Quote from: Baruch on August 27, 2019, 02:18:11 AM
I don't think you were around in 1760s Paris. Neither was I. Funny how you are nostalgic for Dangerous Liaisons. Yes, the Internet is like an English pub, minus the stout, and magnified village idiocy.
What did I ever say that made you think my ancestors were in 1760s Paris? As far as we can tell, my earliest French ancestors came over on Champlain's 2nd voyage and my earliest English ancestors were in NE in the 1640s. My German ancestors came over here in the late 1800s.
I don't have the slightest idea what you are refferring to as "dangerous liaisons", though I do agree about the internet spreading stupidity.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 27, 2019, 03:04:51 AM
What did I ever say that made you think my ancestors were in 1760s Paris? As far as we can tell, my earliest French ancestors came over on Champlain's 2nd voyage and my earliest English ancestors were in NE in the 1640s. My German ancestors came over here in the late 1800s.
I don't have the slightest idea what you are refferring to as "dangerous liaisons", though I do agree about the internet spreading stupidity.
Dangerous Liaisons ... movie about pre-revolutionary Paris, its sexual decadence. Yeah, everyone was just sitting around comparing Voltaire to Rousseau.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 27, 2019, 03:04:51 AM
What did I ever say that made you think my ancestors were in 1760s Paris? As far as we can tell, my earliest French ancestors came over on Champlain's 2nd voyage and my earliest English ancestors were in NE in the 1640s. My German ancestors came over here in the late 1800s.
That'll possibly make us distant cousins in a measurable way -- my English ancestors were in Salem by 1640, so the odds of a mutual ancestor we can locate aren't bad. My English ancestors were also *out* of Salem pretty lickety damn split during the Witch Trials; my great-n-great grandfather was summoned to sit on the jury and basically said the late 17th century equivalent of 'fuck this noise' and skipped town the night before the trials started.
The rest came over from Poland and the Ukraine in the late 1800s -- one line from the German-controlled part of partitioned Poland, so their papers were in German and therefore their surnames were spelled wrong... took me forever to sort out who was kin in my home town when I was little, some of my grandpa's siblings switched back to the original Szul and others kept Schultz.
-----
Meanwhile, back on the original subject -- it's reported the opponents of no-deal have finalized a strategy (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49483374), but what it involves, they haven't mentioned yet. I suspect that a no-confidence vote and Jeremy as caretaker have been taken off the table, in favor of Parliament simply asserting their right to control the house's agenda rather than having Boris try to pull a fast one by proroguing Parliament until after October 31 so he can shove no-deal down everyone's throat.
Both sides will magically put a rabbit out of a hat, and jointly make Welsh rabbit.
Quote from: Baruch on August 27, 2019, 08:11:26 AM
Dangerous Liaisons ... movie about pre-revolutionary Paris, its sexual decadence. Yeah, everyone was just sitting around comparing Voltaire to Rousseau.
Oh. I'm not a big movie fan. Takes too long and popcorn is expensive. I'd rather read a book and graze my refrigerator.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 27, 2019, 10:53:36 PM
Oh. I'm not a big movie fan. Takes too long and popcorn is expensive. I'd rather read a book and graze my refrigerator.
Just as well. It made me hate the decadent Enlightenment. Well read degenerates.
Quote from: Baruch on August 28, 2019, 03:15:11 AM
Just as well. It made me hate the decadent Enlightenment. Well read degenerates.
Speaking of books, I cleaned house and threw away about $5,000 of books. Useless old obsolete info.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 28, 2019, 03:22:20 AM
Speaking of books, I cleaned house and threw away about $5,000 of books. Useless old obsolete info.
Yeah, need to do the same for the move. Sobbing. Like putting old cats to sleep.
Quote from: Baruch on August 28, 2019, 03:23:43 AM
Yeah, need to do the same for the move. Sobbing. Like putting old cats to sleep.
Sometimes hard things are necessary. Tossing books is hard. But what good is a 50 year old book on astronomy? Or a world history book from 1950?
Quote from: Cavebear on August 28, 2019, 03:28:23 AM
Sometimes hard things are necessary. Tossing books is hard. But what good is a 50 year old book on astronomy? Or a world history book from 1950?
Classics. You brute you!
Quote from: Baruch on August 28, 2019, 03:33:50 AM
Classics. You brute you!
Yeah... Et tu BRUTE and all that. But I realized I had never referred to any of them for 25 years and they were just taking up space. I always go online for info these days.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 28, 2019, 03:37:04 AM
Yeah... Et tu BRUTE and all that. But I realized I had never referred to any of them for 25 years and they were just taking up space. I always go online for info these days.
Internet is a powerful too. But for reading while having breakfast, a laptop will simply not do.
Quote from: Baruch on August 28, 2019, 03:51:46 AM
Internet is a powerful too. But for reading while having breakfast, a laptop will simply not do.
Breakfast? I'm never up that early. But I do read The Washington Post and some info mags at lunch.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 28, 2019, 03:56:38 AM
Breakfast? I'm never up that early. But I do read The Washington Post and some info mags at lunch.
Us vampires get up at the crack of dawn. Sleep during the day. Coffin rental is cheaper that way.
Quote from: Baruch on August 28, 2019, 03:57:54 AM
Us vampires get up at the crack of dawn. Sleep during the day. Coffin rental is cheaper that way.
Any mags you read?
Quote from: Cavebear on August 28, 2019, 03:58:50 AM
Any mags you read?
.
Not anymore. Used to read Time, US News & World Report, Scientific American, National Geographic, Biblical Archeology.
Just books at every time I eat. Reading in bed is instant sleep. Even when I want to stay awake.
Presently reading (and had this book for years) Yoga, by Mircea Eliade. This was his great work of youth, PhD thesis basically. In comparative religion. Eliade was from Romania. Comparable to Joseph Campbell.
Quote from: Baruch on August 28, 2019, 04:09:03 AM
.
Not anymore. Used to read Time, US News & World Report, Scientific American, National Geographic, Biblical Archeology.
Just books at every time I eat. Reading in bed is instant sleep. Even when I want to stay awake.
Presently reading (and had this book for years) Yoga, by Mircea Eliade. This was his great work of youth, PhD thesis basically. In comparative religion. Eliade was from Romania. Comparable to Joseph Campbell.
I read Scientific American, National Geographic, Smithsonian, Archeology, and Wood. At bed, I tend to re-read Dilbert, Doonesbury, Calvin&Hobbes, and Jared Diamond. 'Guns, Germs, and Steel' really changed my view of history.
Yes, Jared Diamond is a liberal, in a good way. Informed and realistic. Not the Himalayan master type.
Of course the magazines had great pictures and illustrations. I miss that with Internet. No cable TV. I have YouTube docs for that.
Quote from: Baruch on August 28, 2019, 04:20:57 AM
Yes, Jared Diamond is a liberal, in a good way. Informed and realistic. Not the Himalayan master type.
Of course the magazines had great pictures and illustrations. I miss that with Internet. No cable TV. I have YouTube docs for that.
Well, his connections of domesticatable (can't spell it) plants and animals with geography was something I hadn't thought of before.
Welp, here we go. Boris went nuclear; of course, the monarch can't turn down the government's request without triggering a constitutional crisis. However, granting it is probably trigger one anyway.
Good luck over there; personally, I think all Boris has done is volunteer to lose a no-confidence vote. Next week ought to be interesting ...
Quote from: trdsf on August 28, 2019, 12:03:09 PM
Welp, here we go. Boris went nuclear; of course, the monarch can't turn down the government's request without triggering a constitutional crisis. However, granting it is probably trigger one anyway.
Good luck over there; personally, I think all Boris has done is volunteer to lose a no-confidence vote. Next week ought to be interesting ...
Verily.
Bring out the popcorn.
Don't ye be stingy with the butter!
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on August 28, 2019, 03:05:43 PM
Verily.
Bring out the popcorn.
Don't ye be stingy with the butter!
Well, he's probably murdered the Scottish Conservative Party -- all but one of their MPs was newly elected in 2017, and every single constituency in Scotland voted to remain. Word is that Ruth Davidson is resigning the party leadership tomorrow. And he's probably done the DUP no favors because a hard Brexit almost certainly means a hard Irish border -- the DUP Leader Arlene Foster has said the terms of their agreement with the Conservatives that lets Boris be PM in the first place "would now be reviewed (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49504526)".
If Corbyn has enough sense to let someone else be caretaker PM, I suspect they could take out Boris on a no-confidence vote. I think there are enough Tory rebels to do it (especially if Ken Clarke is the PM-in-waiting), and I wouldn't count on Foster and the DUP, nor Davidson and the Scottish Conservatives, to be very keen on saving Johnson's hide at this point.
That's a big if, unfortunately. He's determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Even Ed Miliband could've out-maneuvered Boris by now (or would've long since out-maneuvered May).
Quote from: trdsf on August 28, 2019, 12:03:09 PM
Welp, here we go. Boris went nuclear; of course, the monarch can't turn down the government's request without triggering a constitutional crisis. However, granting it is probably trigger one anyway.
Good luck over there; personally, I think all Boris has done is volunteer to lose a no-confidence vote. Next week ought to be interesting ...
Britain = Flaming sack of bullocks since 1919. Not my problem, but good theater. Best opinion is a reheated May agreement will be presented at Queen's Speech and Parliament will agree. The reheated May agreement is BRINO …. Brexit in name only. The EU philes will bitch, but basically got what they wanted (99% of status quo) and Brexiteers are screwed.
Unless of course, you support the Feminist coup … by Greens … Female PM, all female cabinet. Or Marxist coup .. by Corbyn … Marxist policies domestic and foreign.
I am not an EU phile. They are ghastly undemocratic 4th Reich, with French Vichy poodle. Can't expect anything good from Europe, ever. But GB has been nearly broken since 1919. Bankrupt from WW I, and Labor = Lenin.
As y'all know. In the US, I favor military dictatorship (think Cromwell). I consider all R and all D as un-American. Fit for exile to Venezuela or Somalia. We can replace all of you with hard working Mexicans and Chinese, and be better off.
Parliament was going to have 4 weeks off for party conferences. Boris and Queen added 4 extra days for that. Since the Queen approved … if a Brit disagrees, I suggest Tower of London. King Charles I was right. Cromwell was second best system.
Quote from: Baruch on August 29, 2019, 10:05:51 AM
Britain = Flaming sack of bullocks since 1919. Not my problem, but good theater. Best opinion is a reheated May agreement will be presented at Queen's Speech and Parliament will agree. The reheated May agreement is BRINO …. Brexit in name only. The EU philes will bitch, but basically got what they wanted (99% of status quo) and Brexiteers are screwed.
Unless of course, you support the Feminist coup … by Greens … Female PM, all female cabinet. Or Marxist coup .. by Corbyn … Marxist policies domestic and foreign.
I am not an EU phile. They are ghastly undemocratic 4th Reich, with French Vichy poodle. Can't expect anything good from Europe, ever. But GB has been nearly broken since 1919. Bankrupt from WW I, and Labor = Lenin.
As y'all know. In the US, I favor military dictatorship (think Cromwell). I consider all R and all D as un-American. Fit for exile to Venezuela or Somalia. We can replace all of you with hard working Mexicans and Chinese, and be better off.
Parliament was going to have 4 weeks off for party conferences. Boris and Queen added 4 extra days for that. Since the Queen approved … if a Brit disagrees, I suggest Tower of London. King Charles I was right. Cromwell was second best system.
You crack me up. One day you are anti-immigrants and the next day you want Mexicans and Chinese. One day you want The Queen to run things and the next you want elections among the elite.
Have you ever had the same idea 2 days in a row?
You don't read carefully. I have always been pro immigrant. Not pro open border. I am exactly where you are.
In rhetoric, if we got rid of 200 million traitors in the US, we would need to backfill quickly.
When speaking of GB, that is about GB, not the US. When I speak of the US, that is about the US, not GB. If I were British I would go with a Cromwell, not a monarchy. But since in 1640 they had a strong monarchy (weak monarch) … that is what you would go with, then. Not now.
Quote from: Baruch on August 31, 2019, 10:19:47 AM
You don't read carefully. I have always been pro immigrant. Not pro open border. I am exactly where you are.
In rhetoric, if we got rid of 200 million traitors in the US, we would need to backfill quickly.
When speaking of GB, that is about GB, not the US. When I speak of the US, that is about the US, not GB. If I were British I would go with a Cromwell, not a monarchy. But since in 1640 they had a strong monarchy (weak monarch) … that is what you would go with, then. Not now.
If so, I apologize. I was going on recollection, which fails sometimes. I can SUSPECT if I went back through enough of your posts, I would find anti-immigrant statements, but that is NOT evidence in any way. However, that was entirely improper of me to suggest.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 31, 2019, 11:20:25 AM
If so, I apologize. I was going on recollection, which fails sometimes. I can SUSPECT if I went back through enough of your posts, I would find anti-immigrant statements, but that is NOT evidence in any way. However, that was entirely improper of me to suggest.
Context. Reread all 35,000 of them, and what I was posting for/against. Call back in a decade.
Quote from: Baruch on August 31, 2019, 04:50:27 PM
Context. Reread all 35,000 of them, and what I was posting for/against. Call back in a decade.
Was it your 13,403rd post perhaps?
Apparently Boris lost his majority?
News report was rather short on this.
Lacking time to look up articles.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 03, 2019, 12:13:08 PM
Apparently Boris lost his majority?
News report was rather short on this.
Lacking time to look up articles.
Well, he SHOULD but this is news to me. MY news is all Hurricane Dorian and the latest insane shooter. 24/7.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 03, 2019, 12:13:08 PM
Apparently Boris lost his majority?
News report was rather short on this.
Lacking time to look up articles.
As expected ... the Tory majority was razor thin and 70% of Parliament work for Merkel. So a no-confidence vote likely, and then a general election. No telling how it will work out, though either a modified PM May agreement or non-deal Brexit is most likely. The point being, Tories have been showing increasing weakness since the 2017 general election, and Merkel is counting on her allies in Parliament to prevail. As Boris points out, this makes PM May's negotiating position with EU impossible, and it looks like the position won't be any better under PM Johnson. The political system there, like in the US, tends toward 51/49 partisanship.
The biggest betrayal was Corbyn/Labor. They had promised to work with PM May, and could have gotten the May agreement passed last Spring (like that deal or not). I can't blame Merkel, though her position is getting weaker and weaker every month too. They want to avoid an EU recession, and are willings to screw GB, not just Greece, to get it. On the other hand, the GB capitulation to Common Market in 75 and the EU in 92, probably makes their sovereignty unrecoverable. Further erosion of British sovereignty, will make the "special relationship" impossible to continue. Britain will be a "island" version of Hungary.
In the event that the Whip can purge all the "wet" Tories, and Boris can win the general election, then Brexit on 10/31 will still occur in some form. Farage says Boris will betray the Brexit anyway, with a reworked May agreement. If he does, then civil war may still result. If Brexit does occur as WTO, then half of GB will move to France. Those people can easily be replaced with Yellow Vests and other EU skeptics.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 03, 2019, 12:17:26 PM
Well, he SHOULD but this is news to me. MY news is all Hurricane Dorian and the latest insane shooter. 24/7.
You rely on US, not British media. You should only be getting Kardashian stuff.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 03, 2019, 12:13:08 PM
Apparently Boris lost his majority?
News report was rather short on this.
Lacking time to look up articles.
BBC News probably has the most complete coverage. Bracknell MP Dr Phillip Lee crossed the aisle to join the Lib Dems while Boris was lying ... sorry, speaking.
This doesn't bring his premiership ho an end, of course. He still (barely) commands a plurality, and Corbyn cannot control all 320 MPs on the opposition benches. Best case scenario for him right now is around 300, and even without the DUP, the Conservatives have 309. And I very much doubt that the estimated 15 Tory Brexit rebels are going to go so far as to back the formation of a Labour government, even as a caretaker.
So even without a majority, Boris remains PM. How much the agenda stays under his control, that's the unknown right now. But today so far can't be spun as anything less than a swift kick to his soft-and-dangly bits.
Quote from: trdsf on September 03, 2019, 01:37:59 PM
BBC News probably has the most complete coverage. Bracknell MP Dr Phillip Lee crossed the aisle to join the Lib Dems while Boris was lying ... sorry, speaking.
This doesn't bring his premiership ho an end, of course. He still (barely) commands a plurality, and Corbyn cannot control all 320 MPs on the opposition benches. Best case scenario for him right now is around 300, and even without the DUP, the Conservatives have 309. And I very much doubt that the estimated 15 Tory Brexit rebels are going to go so far as to back the formation of a Labour government, even as a caretaker.
So even without a majority, Boris remains PM. How much the agenda stays under his control, that's the unknown right now. But today so far can't be spun as anything less than a swift kick to his soft-and-dangly bits.
Well, it WOULD make sense the BBC is focussing on Brexit and "Boris the Trump"...
Actually. what doesn't surprise me is that the Queen went for his non-debate idea. She's 93,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2ldXa1ZGCE
Actual MSM in an actual country with an actual government ... unlike the US.
In the British system, an MP is part of a party, they represent the party, not the local constituency (unlike US).
His district ... was 60% leave ... he doesn't represent anyone other than LibDem.
BBC is like CNN in the US. BBC = Guardian. CNN = DNC.
The "frogmarch" mentioned was a parallel incident in #10 to what happened at about the same time at the WH. A staffer was working for the opposition, and got immediate pink slip.
Cavebear ... if you start seeing Trump's face in everyone you see ... see a doctor. Boris has no love for Trump. Boris is a British socialist like FDR in the US. But not like Bernie ... who is like Corbyn.
Quote from: trdsf on September 03, 2019, 01:37:59 PM
BBC News probably has the most complete coverage. Bracknell MP Dr Phillip Lee crossed the aisle to join the Lib Dems while Boris was lying ... sorry, speaking.
This doesn't bring his premiership ho an end, of course. He still (barely) commands a plurality, and Corbyn cannot control all 320 MPs on the opposition benches. Best case scenario for him right now is around 300, and even without the DUP, the Conservatives have 309. And I very much doubt that the estimated 15 Tory Brexit rebels are going to go so far as to back the formation of a Labour government, even as a caretaker.
So even without a majority, Boris remains PM. How much the agenda stays under his control, that's the unknown right now. But today so far can't be spun as anything less than a swift kick to his soft-and-dangly bits.
No, I knew it wouldn't stop his premiership. But this is shaping up to be an interesting brexit week.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 03, 2019, 02:32:17 PM
No, I knew it wouldn't stop his premiership. But this is shaping up to be an interesting brexit week.
Can he act without parlimetary support or be stopped with the Queeen's support? Quite a problem "over there".
And I do wish all my British friends good hopes in the coming awkward days.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 03, 2019, 02:32:17 PM
No, I knew it wouldn't stop his premiership. But this is shaping up to be an interesting brexit week.
The British political system is so flexible, so meta ... not even the Brits know what is going on.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 03, 2019, 02:38:33 PM
Can he act without parlimetary support or be stopped with the Queeen's support? Quite a problem "over there".
And I do wish all my British friends good hopes in the coming awkward days.
So meta. I don't know. I suspect they are making it up as they go along. Which is what I do too.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 03, 2019, 01:52:41 PM
Well, it WOULD make sense the BBC is focussing on Brexit and "Boris the Trump"...
Actually. what doesn't surprise me is that the Queen went for his non-debate idea. She's 93,
She really has no choice in the matter. As a constitutional monarch, the Queen's assent to the government's request is assumed; it would have been an even wilder constitutional crisis if she'd said no.
Boris has given Trump a idea.....hoo-boy....you know damn well he is already asking if he can "suspend" Congress and the House.
He'd only want to suspend the House, I suspect, since Moscow's Bitch is ruling the Senate with an iron fist.
Quote from: aitm on September 03, 2019, 07:46:04 PM
Boris has given Trump a idea.....hoo-boy....you know damn well he is already asking if he can "suspend" Congress and the House.
I would suspend them by their thumbs. And hire German dominatrices to entertain the God-Emperor and his involuntary guests ;-) 535 Shades of Grey.
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 03, 2019, 07:50:55 PM
He'd only want to suspend the House, I suspect, since Moscow's Bitch is ruling the Senate with an iron fist.
Is that you, Emperor Xi ... or the head of Iran? It is so hard to tell the Communist puppets apart without a game time mag.
Remainer vote won by 27. 21 of those were Tories. Rory Stewart, Philip Hammond etc all had the "Whip" removed. Fired from Tories, can't run for office in the next General Election. Maybe General Election on 10/15, right after prorogation finished. !0/14 skipped because of Jewish holiday. Bercow's seat will now be contested, since he has twice violated non-partisan rule about Speaker of the House. How soon will people get sent to the Tower? The Empire can't return soon enough!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXV1eeTz6Xo
I just want to shout 'ORDEEEERR! ORDEEEERR!'. LOL
Quote from: drunkenshoe on September 04, 2019, 02:37:00 AM
I just want to shout 'ORDEEEERR! ORDEEEERR!'. LOL
Best thing Bercow did. Maybe he can get a comedy job on BBC after he is fired ;-)
Quote from: Cavebear on September 03, 2019, 02:38:33 PM
Can he act without parlimetary support or be stopped with the Queeen's support? Quite a problem "over there".
And I do wish all my British friends good hopes in the coming awkward days.
I'm not sure how much he can do on his own executive authority. The Queen simply can not get involved without a major constitutional crisis.
And he's also pretty much not just shot himself in the foot, but blown his leg off from the knee down. He had been PM of a minority government that was only one seat short. Now that he's thrown out the 21 Conservatives who voted against no deal, they have no reason to come back to the government side on any future votes on Brexit, although I doubt any of them will be crossing the aisle. They'll sit as 'independent Conservatives' or some such until the next election, and probably support the government on most items other than Brexit. And it looks
really bad to be the guy who threw Winston Churchill's grandson out of the party.
Winston would have canned his grandson, himself.
Bercow basically decided what the Queen can or can't do on his own. He is King John all over again. Time to terminate British government entirely ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-gHVGOoE48
London has fallen ;-(
Nobody decided what she should do or not do. The fact that 'technically she could have said no' has no hold on the issue in reality. There is nothing she can do. Queens...kings, monarchs can't get in to a major conflict with the constitution. It's a constitutional monarchy, not a monarchititutional constarchy. :p I invented a new regime.
Unless there is a Queen/MoD coup against Parliament.
Mexican standoff, but not in Mexico ;-(
Boris needs freedom to negotiate - Parliament says no, subtrefuge to force cancellation of Article 50
Boris needs to hold an election to eliminate "wet" Tories and shake up other parties - Parliament says no (revised law holds off next election for total fo 5 years).
Boris needs House of Lords to go slow on bill forcing extension of Article 50, to break 10/15 and 10/31 date - hard
Boris needs to terminate current law that would keep Parliament in crisis for the next 2 years until next mandatory election, returning to original law (election date up to PM) - hard
Boris could try to ignore demand that he go to Brussels on Oct 17-18 - hard ... just one EU nation (over than GB) needs to say no to prevent extension
Meanwhile Oct 14 is date for Queen's Speech and new Parliament session. Meanwhile legal challenges to prorogation continue. For now, I think Parliament is off from this coming Monday until Oct 14.
Article 50 extension bill needs to be blocked in House of Lords until after 10/15 or 10/31 (after being resubmitted following Queen's Speech if not already approved) to help Boris.
Right now, if I were them, I would coup the Parliament. It worked for Cromwell.
Quote from: Baruch on September 05, 2019, 06:49:44 AM
Unless there is a Queen/MoD coup against Parliament.
Mexican standoff, but not in Mexico ;-(
Boris needs freedom to negotiate - Parliament says no
Boris needs to hold an election to eliminate "wet" Tories and shake up other parties - Parliament says no
Boris needs House of Lords to go slow on bill forcing extension of Article 50, to break 10/15 and 10/31 date - hard
Boris needs to terminate current law that would keep Parliament in crisis for the next 2 years until next mandatory election, returning to original law (election date up to PM) - hard
Boris could try to ignore demand that he go to Brussels on Oct 17-18 - hard ... just one EU nation needs to say no to prevent extension
Meanwhile Oct 14 is date for Queen's Speech and new Parliament session. Article 50 extension bill needs to be blocked in House of Lords until after 10/15 or 10/31 (after resubmitted following Queen's Speech if not already approved) to help Boris.
Right now, if I were them, I would coup the Parliament. It worked for Cromwell.
It won't be blocked, I think, he's already prepping to campaign.
Further mods above to explain the complexity. This is what happens when the legislative component is too strong compared to the executive component. Labor+ with cooperation of House of Lords, can delay election until 5 years after 2017 election. Unless the law is changed, but Labor+ and House of Lords can prevent the law being changed. Under current law, Admin needs 2/3 support to call an early election. Admin is too weak.
So after the EU destroys the UK, what will you do for an encore? Invade Russia? All part of communizing W Europe, and then re-communizing Russia/China. Marx was a German living in Britain, not a Russian/Chinese. Communism's home has always been Paris/Berlin/London/Rome. How much did Merkel pay, to pay off Corbyn? E German Stazi that she is.
They don't have musketers anymore, Baruch.
They should have thought about all of this long time ago, before the referandum. Before pushing their agenda. They have started this bullshit without making any plans what so ever and now, 'oh my they won't let us do anything'.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on September 05, 2019, 07:38:19 AM
They don't have musketers anymore, Baruch.
They should have thought about all of this long time ago, before the referandum. Before pushing their agenda. They have started this bullshit without making any plans what so ever and now, 'oh my they won't let us do anything'.
Nato is Dead ... without a special relationship between the US and UK (see EU army) any further struggle against Putin is fruitless. That and what is happening in Putin's ally Turkey. Full pull back of the US to where we were in 1939. WW III to follow.
As posted before ... summarized ...
1. There should have been no Scottish or EU referendum, or any such. The Parliament is an oligarchy, not a democracy. They need to become a one party state. Unity thru bayonets.
2. Having done the EU referendum, and they got the opposite of what they expected ... they needed to declare it null and void, same as Syriza in Greece, when their referendum came back "leave". The Greek PM was stronger than the UK PM!
3. In general, I oppose democracy. So there is no need for referenda, or for votes for candidates. One party state like China is the way to go.
Otherwise I have been having fun with the blood sport rhetoric. As an American, I can afford to see GB go down the drain, not that I want it to. It could still end up as a quaint theme park.
We are talking about Brexit, Baruch.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on September 05, 2019, 10:50:37 AM
We are talking about Brexit, Baruch.
We are talking about Soros and world's end. It was Soros who screwed the British Pound in 1992, when they had the pre-Euro arrangement. Brexit is just a gambit. What happens in GB, is often tried next in the US. If the British lose the Pound, then they are as helpless as Greece. Greece = a nice place for Germans to own winter homes. GB = a wet place not even fit for Germans on holiday. EU = Holy Roman Empire + Communism. Turkey + Russia is a dead turkey. Russia is a long term enemy of Turkey.
Oh ffs, you run in your post like a headless chicken.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on September 05, 2019, 02:08:45 PM
Oh ffs, you run in your post like a headless chicken.
You deny context. Are you content to discuss Boris' disappointment at his brother and other minutae?
Quote from: Baruch on September 05, 2019, 07:24:35 AM
So after the EU destroys the UK, what will you do for an encore?
Lol.
(https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69319973_10217603193449246_6716767288265015296_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_oc=AQmIYrr2dms9lyr1eCLeC3RPd25G3PN83oBLWDx42KtsZXIGztOt2n2Mr-dHIF60Xdo70DZjmX_hb6QI0LhcLOp1&_nc_ht=scontent-bru2-1.xx&oh=43f45c2cb3357a09128a08f33fd0a925&oe=5DFF6C55)
Epic paint skillz, I haz them.
It is a long way to the Queen's speech, will there even be a London in mid-October? Will Turkey send another million "refugees" to Berlin by then?
Quote from: Baruch on September 05, 2019, 07:19:36 PM
It is a long way to the Queen's speech, will there even be a London in mid-October? Will Turkey send another million "refugees" to Berlin by then?
Tune in tomorrow
Same bat-time.
Same bat-channel.
Same bat-shit stuff Baruch says.
I wonder now the no-no-deal-brexit bill is through, wouldn't it be ironic if the EU failed to grand another extension?
Because let's be fair, no major changes to the deal will follow in October.
Quote from: Baruch on September 05, 2019, 03:06:35 PM
You deny context. Are you content to discuss Boris' disappointment at his brother and other minutae?
Yes, because the can't be done brexit has a context based on a coup made by a seveteenth century politician, russia and middle east -though because you are talking to me, changes according to the person- and invasion of somewhere, the communist (!) EU and events and empires in history scattered around from few thousand years back, right?
How do you know Boris was disappointed by his brother? Does he look like he is batting for a kind of politics interested in details?
QuoteWill Turkey send another million "refugees" to Berlin by then?
Not following the local news. Is he threatening again?
QuoteIt is a long way to the Queen's speech, will there even be a London in mid-October?
They'll pack up the necessary bits and send it to Wisconsin with the royal family. The palace would look particularly beautiful next to Noah's Park.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 06, 2019, 12:45:36 AM
Tune in tomorrow
Same bat-time.
Same bat-channel.
Same bat-shit stuff Baruch says.
I wonder now the no-no-deal-brexit bill is through, wouldn't it be ironic if the EU failed to grand another extension?
Because let's be fair, no major changes to the deal will follow in October.
Infinite machinations in the House of Lords. The Tories were going to filibuster the bill from the House of Commons. And then at midnight Wednesday, they dropped that strategy. Meanwhile the Tories in the House of Lords, are all miffed, that any Tory, even one who betrays the PM, should ever be dismissed.
I listen to what Brits are saying. Do you? The Belgians, since the days of Victoria's Belgian uncle have tried to manipulate Britain. Will the current manipulation continue?
And yes, Europe could refuse an extension. But as Farage says, the EU will sell their mothers to a whore house, to keep the 1 billion pounds coming each month.
If the EU drops the ball, then a new election will happen, and the Remainers will lose power. And then the no-no-deal bill will be cancelled.
Because of Merkel and Erdogan, the refugee problem will yet be the death of Europe. So many ISIS fighters in Pakistan and Sub-Saharan Africa (sarc).
Boris' brother? If I were him, I would ask the Queen to send him to the Tower ... for some reeducation.
Quote from: Baruch on September 06, 2019, 03:21:17 AM
I listen to what Brits are saying. Do you? The Belgians, since the days of Victoria's Belgian uncle have tried to manipulate Britain. Will the current manipulation continue?
And yes, Europe could refuse an extension. But as Farage says, the EU will sell their mothers to a whore house, to keep the 1 billion pounds coming each month.
I listen to the Britains. And I do so without seeing shadow-plots all over the place. Not without seeing possible hidden motivation. But in the here and now. I think I look a lot less into the past, than you do. I don't ignore it, but I don't think one-century old monarchs continue to spread their influence from beyond the grave.
And no, I don't think the EU is going to refuse and extension. But it would be ironic, wouldn't it?
But I think more than for any money the UK owes, the EU will grant the extension rather because the alternative is directly devastating and will plummet the euro.
Goods, medicin etc. won't be able to be sold or bought. Delays causing inflation. ... Horrible stuff really.
I live in the port-city of antwerp. My dad works for the company, the port of antwerp, as international development manager. He told me it would be catastrophic. On both ends sea-faring companies are ill-prepared and lacking the necessary documents to trade with their close neighbours across the channel, if one country were to stop being a EU-country.
You live in Antwerp. Brilliant. It would be an amazing trip to start from North of Netherlands and go down to south into your country by visiting every art museum on the way. :) Preferably, not in deep in winter though.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 06, 2019, 07:10:11 AM
I listen to the Britains. And I do so without seeing shadow-plots all over the place. Not without seeing possible hidden motivation. But in the here and now. I think I look a lot less into the past, than you do. I don't ignore it, but I don't think one-century old monarchs continue to spread their influence from beyond the grave.
And no, I don't think the EU is going to refuse and extension. But it would be ironic, wouldn't it?
But I think more than for any money the UK owes, the EU will grant the extension rather because the alternative is directly devastating and will plummet the euro.
Goods, medicin etc. won't be able to be sold or bought. Delays causing inflation. ... Horrible stuff really.
I live in the port-city of antwerp. My dad works for the company, the port of antwerp, as international development manager. He told me it would be catastrophic. On both ends sea-faring companies are ill-prepared and lacking the necessary documents to trade with their close neighbours across the channel, if one country were to stop being a EU-country.
In GB - BBC is gospel?
In US - CNN is gospel?
... but your father may be on to something ;-( Or it is propaganda.
You are a Labor-type supporter, or Green-type supporter? In which case being Merkel's bitch is the only way to go. A smooth exit of Greece or UK was possible, but the fear in Germany is if you let anyone out, then everyone leaves. So Germany has to draw a line in the sand against any withdrawals. Of course a UK withdrawal is a greater disruption compared to a Greek withdrawl. The unequal economic relationship of Germany to the rest of W Europe (since 1871) has been the cause of all of your wars. It allows German aggression and W European paranoia about the Germans. Just saw a documentary on the horrible childhood of Kaiser Wilhelm II. That pretty much put a torch to the petrol dump of 1914. Yes, progressives pretend that the past is irrelevant. Well the childhood of the Kaiser was very relevant to 1914.
I do hope that there is minimum disruption for both sides. But the elephant in the room is that the EU/Germany are going into recession anyway (various reasons). There is no scenario where there is a free lunch for everyone, or anyone, where standards of living only go up (socialist/capitalist paradise). They tried to convince us here in the US that was the case, back in 2008 (capitalist paradise). Today they are trying to convince younger people of a socialist paradise. Demagoguery from Athens down till today. You were warned 2400 years ago.
illiberal, undemocratic W European communism? I think so.
Quisling House of Lords/House of Commons? I think so.
Lord HawHaw lives!! Here is the Remain/EU national anthem ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06jlgpMtQs
Now only the Daleks can empty the British swamp ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SBCuxSskDI
Only gold Deleks may serve ... come to think of it, was PM May working for them?
Quote from: trdsf on September 03, 2019, 07:11:31 PM
She really has no choice in the matter. As a constitutional monarch, the Queen's assent to the government's request is assumed; it would have been an even wilder constitutional crisis if she'd said no.
This may be a good time for the Queen to act. But I'm sure she will wait for a new election. It would be risky. Doesn't her Royal Budget depend on Parliament?
Quote from: Cavebear on September 06, 2019, 07:27:34 PM
This may be a good time for the Queen to act. But I'm sure she will wait for a new election. It would be risky. Doesn't her Royal Budget depend on Parliament?
The present monarchy was ... eunuch-ed over 100 years ago. King Edward VII (1901-1910) was the last king who tried to do anything contrary to Parliament. Basically the monarchy is a paid for rubber stamp. It isn't like Saddam Hussein's Iraq. King George II was the last king to go into combat. A cannonball narrowly missed him. Parliament Act of 1911 decided that the House of Commons was the only authority.
The last President to go into combat while in office was James Madison. Pretty much all military things are handled by professional officers now (See Westpoint and Sandhurst). It can be catastrophic ... like when King Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden was killed on the battlefield during the Thirty Years War in Germany.
Quote from: Baruch on September 06, 2019, 11:48:28 PM
The present monarchy was ... eunuch-ed over 100 years ago. King Edward VII (1901-1910) was the last king who tried to do anything contrary to Parliament. Basically the monarchy is a paid for rubber stamp. It isn't like Saddam Hussein's Iraq. King George II was the last king to go into combat. A cannonball narrowly missed him. Parliament Act of 1911 decided that the House of Commons was the only authority.
The last President to go into combat while in office was James Madison. Pretty much all military things are handled by professional officers now (See Westpoint and Sandringham). It can be catastrophic ... like when King Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden was killed on the battlefield during the Thirty Years War in Germany.
"Lincoln had always been a hands-on commander-in-chief, even personally test-firing rifles on the grassy expanses around the White House. Still, Confederate sharpshooters probably could not have believed their eyes when during the first afternoon of the Battle of Fort Stevens a lanky, bearded man in a dark suit and stovepipe hat emerged on the fort’s earthen parapets. Discouraged by the elaborate defenses that had been erected and concerned about his tired soldiers wilting in the blistering heat, Early had held back on a major assault, but Confederate snipers trained to hit targets from distances of 800 yards or more were firing shots from perches in trees, cornfields and houses. One of those shots rang out and came close to striking the president, who was standing on the parapet surveying the enemy in the line of fire. As John Hay, Lincoln’s private secretary, noted in his diary that night, â€A soldier roughly ordered him to get down or he would have his head knocked off.†While James Madison was in the vicinity of a battle when the British arrived in the city a half-century before, Lincoln might have been the only sitting American president to come under enemy fire while in office."
I fart in the general direction of your inaccurcies...
Quote from: Cavebear on September 07, 2019, 12:31:38 AM
"Lincoln had always been a hands-on commander-in-chief, even personally test-firing rifles on the grassy expanses around the White House. Still, Confederate sharpshooters probably could not have believed their eyes when during the first afternoon of the Battle of Fort Stevens a lanky, bearded man in a dark suit and stovepipe hat emerged on the fort’s earthen parapets. Discouraged by the elaborate defenses that had been erected and concerned about his tired soldiers wilting in the blistering heat, Early had held back on a major assault, but Confederate snipers trained to hit targets from distances of 800 yards or more were firing shots from perches in trees, cornfields and houses. One of those shots rang out and came close to striking the president, who was standing on the parapet surveying the enemy in the line of fire. As John Hay, Lincoln’s private secretary, noted in his diary that night, â€A soldier roughly ordered him to get down or he would have his head knocked off.†While James Madison was in the vicinity of a battle when the British arrived in the city a half-century before, Lincoln might have been the only sitting American president to come under enemy fire while in office."
I fart in the general direction of your inaccurcies...
In combat. Not ordering things behind the lines.
Truman fired generals ;-) ... same as Lincoln. People were outraged at Lincoln's country bumpkin interference at that time. More recent Presidents appoint and fire generals. But that isn't being in combat. Did Westmoreland ever see combat in Vietnam .. while in air conditioned Saigon?
Quote from: Baruch on September 07, 2019, 12:37:13 AM
In combat. Not ordering things behind the lines.
Truman fired generals ;-) ... same as Lincoln. People were outraged at Lincoln's country bumpkin interference at that time. More recent Presidents appoint and fire generals. But that isn't being in combat. Did Westmoreland ever see combat in Vietnam .. while in air conditioned Saigon?
You miss the point "as usual"*. Lincoln was actually fired at. The only US President to undergo that other than assassinations.
*I actually have that stored on Word just for you...
Quote from: Cavebear on September 07, 2019, 12:54:44 AM
You miss the point "as usual"*. Lincoln was actually fired at. The only US President to undergo that other than assassinations.
*I actually have that stored on Word just for you...
Long shot from regular rebel lines. More danger than what Hillary faced in Yugoslavia. Tell the colonels who led from the front of their regiment, and had the highest casualty rate of any rank.
Quote from: Baruch on September 07, 2019, 12:58:23 AM
Long shot from regular rebel lines. More danger than what Hillary faced in Yugoslavia. Tell the colonels who led from the front of their regiment, and had the highest casualty rate of any rank.
Did you miss the reference to "sharpshooters"?
Quote from: Cavebear on September 07, 2019, 01:01:49 AM
Did you miss the reference to "sharpshooters"?
Yes, and Hillary was a war hero ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on September 07, 2019, 02:30:06 AM
Yes, and Hillary was a war hero ;-)
You are obsessed with Hillary Clinton. And for bad reasons. If she had won in 2016, would the world be in such bad shape as Trump has given us? Seriously, she would have (politely) told Putin to go fuck himself, ordered serious anti-election-cyberattack measures, stopped Brexit, steadied the global economy, and not promised that Mexico would pay for a useless wall.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 07, 2019, 03:51:53 AM
You are obsessed with Hillary Clinton. And for bad reasons. If she had won in 2016, would the world be in such bad shape as Trump has given us? Seriously, she would have (politely) told Putin to go fuck himself, ordered serious anti-election-cyberattack measures, stopped Brexit, steadied the global economy, and not promised that Mexico would pay for a useless wall.
To be fair though.
There is no way in hell she could have stopped the shit storm that is brexit.
That's not on you, that's on our side of the pond.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 07, 2019, 04:16:08 AM
To be fair though.
There is no way in hell she could have stopped the shit storm that is brexit.
That's not on you, that's on our side of the pond.
I think a sensible US President might have served as a good negotiator. Trump was not "there" when our allies needed him. Hillary Clinton might have been the right negotiator. She was experienced as Secretary of State and Europeans trusted her.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 07, 2019, 04:54:43 AM
I think a sensible US President might have served as a good negotiator. Trump was not "there" when our allies needed him. Hillary Clinton might have been the right negotiator. She was experienced as Secretary of State and Europeans trusted her.
Negotiators aren't a cure for sheer stupidity.
And the referendum was in, by that time already.
Hillary would not have been able to do anything but warn against it, but by then the torries already had all the backing they needed and the full hearted and bullheaded drive to go down their path.
Any warnings, like those of their fellow eu-members and even countrymen, from outside would be equally ignored.
If they won't listen to experts who are involved, they won't listen to a foreign one. The whole thing, on the surface, was about taking back control. Anyone with that moto won't be told what to do by a third party.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 07, 2019, 06:25:59 AM
... The whole thing, on the surface, was about taking back control. ...
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 07, 2019, 04:16:08 AM
To be fair though.
There is no way in hell she could have stopped the shit storm that is brexit.
That's not on you, that's on our side of the pond.
I disagree. Before the TrumpStorm, the US had some effect. Some people forget.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 07, 2019, 06:46:31 AM
I disagree. Before the TrumpStorm, the US had some effect. Some people forget.
The US still has effect, but it never was all-powerful.
I guess we'll never know, but I seriously doubt it.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 07, 2019, 07:31:35 AM
The US still has effect, but it never was all-powerful.
I guess we'll never know, but I seriously doubt it.
Never "was"? You are younger than I thought... There was 70 years of the "Pax Americana".
Quote from: Cavebear on September 07, 2019, 08:01:44 AM
Never "was"? You are younger than I thought... There was 70 years of the "Pax Americana".
I don't mean 'all-powerful' in a poetic sense. I mean it literally.
Because you pretty much have to be all-powerful to change the Brexit-course and cause amongst the brexiteers, not just be the head of the most powerful country in the world.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 07, 2019, 03:51:53 AM
You are obsessed with Hillary Clinton. And for bad reasons. If she had won in 2016, would the world be in such bad shape as Trump has given us? Seriously, she would have (politely) told Putin to go fuck himself, ordered serious anti-election-cyberattack measures, stopped Brexit, steadied the global economy, and not promised that Mexico would pay for a useless wall.
Lies by D people are acceptable to you.
Uranium One ... traitor Obama, traitor Clinton. Or stop being obsessed with Putin. And Hillary is not the Queen of England. And bring the entire population of Mexico into the US, as long as they vote D party. You are completely delusional about your goddess.
"Remainer MPs Colluded With Brussels!" ... the Opposition engaged in foreign policy without the Government or the Queen prior to the new bill. That is treason. All hail the Revolution, all hail Karl Marx, all hail Commissar Corbyn!! The Queen needs to send the unofficial negotiators to the Tower, or civil war!
Defenestrate the House of Lords/Traitors
Nixon did this in 1968 with the N Vietnamese, and Reagan did this in 1980 with Iran.
Of course the D party in the US is just like Labor in UK. Traitors!!
Send all D Congressmen to Guantanamo for enhanced interrogation.
There is no democracy, when a political party turns against the will of the people.
Quote from: Munch on September 07, 2019, 11:02:43 AM
There is no democracy, when a political party turns against the will of the people.
Well then, choose. Aren't both taking the POV ... the end justifies the means? If the positions were reversed, then Tories would traduce the law to destroy Labor. If no democracy, then choose Thomas Hobbes and absolute monarchy (if you are English). Please don't choose Communism, otherwise when WW III comes, the US has to nuke London. Otherwise you all have to change languages from English to French, consume mass quantities, eat only cheese and drink only wine, grow pointy heads.
If you are democratic (and the UN and EU are not) then withdrawal from both bodies. There is nothing liberal or democratic about these groups, they are both 3rd World/Commie shitholes. Mugabe all the way down. Of course, it is a conundrum if you are "variant". It might be better for you in Germany or Sweden. I couldn't guess. Maybe in Communist SNP Scotland? Can you make a kilt look good?
Baruch, did you know Boris's grandfather is Turkish, an English spy? LOL, how ironic is that. I mean your kind of ironic.
His name is Ali Kemal. Apparently lynched by a mob in 20s.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on September 07, 2019, 12:33:14 PM
Baruch, did you know Boris's grandfather is Turkish, an English spy? LOL, how ironic is that. I mean your kind of ironic.
His name is Ali Kemal. Apparently lynched by a mob in 20s.
Yes. Saw the whole program. Said his Turkish grandfather was a hero, not a traitor. Executed by Turkish paras. Your Ataturk lot killed him. That and he is also descended from King George II. The world has always envied the English monarchy. Kick Turkey out of Nato now. In fact, the US should completely withdraw from Nato. I think Erdogan can deal with Syria and Iran just fine. Part of their traditional concern.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 07, 2019, 03:51:53 AM
You are obsessed with Hillary Clinton. And for bad reasons. If she had won in 2016, would the world be in such bad shape as Trump has given us? Seriously, she would have (politely) told Putin to go fuck himself, ordered serious anti-election-cyberattack measures, stopped Brexit, steadied the global economy, and not promised that Mexico would pay for a useless wall.
That's why Putin would never let her occupy the Oval Office, and why Baruch has Hillary derangement syndrome. I
Putin his general direction! :-P
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 07, 2019, 01:27:54 PM
That's why Putin would never let her occupy the Oval Office, and why Baruch has Hillary derangement syndrome. I Putin his general direction! :-P
Putin derangement syndrom. I would expect you supported Pol Pot back in the day (sarc).
I am not anti-Russian. Not anti-anyone. I consider liberals to be losers, demented, degenerates, druggies. Been true since "woke" Voltaire and Rousseau.
Quote from: Baruch on September 07, 2019, 01:30:01 PM
Putin derangement syndrom. I would expect you supported Pol Pot back in the day (sarc).
I smoked pot, not Pol Pot! LOL
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 07, 2019, 01:32:48 PM
I smoked pot, not Pol Pot! LOL
TMI if you smoked Pol Pot ;-)
We might not know more about the British comedy until Tuesday. I could use the respite from the Punch & Judy show.
Quote from: Baruch on September 07, 2019, 01:23:10 PM
Yes. Saw the whole program. Said his Turkish grandfather was a hero, not a traitor. Executed by Turkish paras. Your Ataturk lot killed him. That and he is also descended from King George II. The world has always envied the English monarchy. Kick Turkey out of Nato now. In fact, the US should completely withdraw from Nato. I think Erdogan can deal with Syria and Iran just fine. Part of their traditional concern.
You watched a program about it? It's just funny, the 'not enough British guy' has Turkish roots, lol, who cares? Did they also ask him, what was the English doing down there?
You know he said that for someone, about a vanilla white British guy joining the party? 'He is not British enough.'
Quote from: drunkenshoe on September 07, 2019, 02:18:19 PM
You watched a program about it? It's just funny, the 'not enough British guy' has Turkish roots, lol, who cares? Did they also ask him, what was the English doing down there?
You know he said that for someone, about a vanilla white British guy joining the party? 'He is not British enough.'
Your Un-Turk came to Britain for a better date. Because Turkey back they was a disintegrating shit hole.
There needs to be genocide from Ireland to Vladivostok. Bring on WW III, I am bored waiting for y'all's superiority.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 07, 2019, 06:46:31 AM
I disagree. Before the TrumpStorm, the US had some effect. Some people forget.
The referendum was several months before the US election, when it looked like Hillary had a reasonably safe, but not wide, path to victory. This one really is all on them -- if the fault is anywhere, it's in whatever body oversees UK elections not calling out the Leave campaign on their lies about the £350 million a week that leaving the EU would free up for the NHS during the campaign.
The scale of Leave's deception is like being told you're going to get a brand new Bentley and a free ten thousand pounds, and as soon as you agree, the story changed to being charged twenty thousand for a beat-up Yugo -- and not having any choice about it.
I think a confirmatory referendum is definitely in the offing now; Boris has arguably had the worst first week as PM in the history of the UK, and looks poised to set the record as the shortest-serving premier at this rate -- he's got to hang on another 75 days (to 21 Nov) to not be, and I'll be surprised if there's not an election (or an internal Tory revolt) by then.
Quote from: trdsf on September 08, 2019, 01:19:41 AM
The referendum was several months before the US election, when it looked like Hillary had a reasonably safe, but not wide, path to victory. This one really is all on them -- if the fault is anywhere, it's in whatever body oversees UK elections not calling out the Leave campaign on their lies about the £350 million a week that leaving the EU would free up for the NHS during the campaign.
The scale of Leave's deception is like being told you're going to get a brand new Bentley and a free ten thousand pounds, and as soon as you agree, the story changed to being charged twenty thousand for a beat-up Yugo -- and not having any choice about it.
I think a confirmatory referendum is definitely in the offing now; Boris has arguably had the worst first week as PM in the history of the UK, and looks poised to set the record as the shortest-serving premier at this rate -- he's got to hang on another 75 days (to 21 Nov) to not be, and I'll be surprised if there's not an election (or an internal Tory revolt) by then.
I think if brexit goes past 31st of October, which seems likely at this point, a general election might happen. I think the bid for an earlier election was swept aside, right? (things are moving fast now, trying to keep up to speed.)
But I think past Oct 31, the tories will be hesitant to go for a general election, as they'll lose many votes to farage. And labour too will have to up it games and take an actual stance rather than 'brexit later, with a deal, probably, we'll get around to it someday I am sure' if they want to keep votes and members in Parliament.
In short, a general election is, I fear, not going to help matters go forth.
I also don't see how or why they should would hold and justify a second referendum. And even then, I am not certain the results would be different. They could be, people have since changed their minds. It might be done, mind you. But I would not go for one as a politician.
I can't help but think that this could have been avoided with a little honesty and forethought up front. The events as I recall (as an American who wasn't really watching this thing from the start) were:
People voted to exit the EU.
When Britain entered the EU, they must have done so to participate in some sort of collective European gain and profited from the concept of a stronger collective power. Now that things didn't work out to everyone's satisfaction, Britain voted to withdraw, but it seems like they want to retain the gains they made when they joined. When you join the country club, you get access to the pool and gym. When you terminate your membership, you don't expect to keep using the pool and the gym. So:
why not just make a clean break?
or
why not just stay in and collect the benefits of membership? This sounds like wanting to have your cake and eat it too.
I'm not in a hurry to blame Britain, because it could be that the rest of the EU has been taking advantage of Britain. I don't even know how the rest of the EU feels. Do they want Britain in or out of the EU? Or do they just want the extra power they gain from Britain without giving anything in return?
If Britain wants out because it's that bad, just leave. No deal. If it's that good in the Union, don't leave. Expecting to leave without sacrificing the benefits for joining the Union, doesn't make sense. Not that politics ever makes sense, of course.
Now if I were in charge, and thank God, I'm not. I would hold another vote now that people have had a chance to see what leaving the EU entails. The vote should be leaving the Union without a deal or staying in the Union. That should be the actual vote since no one is going to get a deal. It's just In or Out. Not everyone is going to be satisfied of course, but that's democracy. The majority wins, even if what they want is bad for everyone. And come to think of it, why do we assume that democracy is good for everyone. Clearly, it's not.
No doubt, I'm oversimplifying. But no doubt, others are overcomplicating. And somewhere between those two extremes are a whole bunch of people who are just getting tired.
I was listening to a British news report on NPR yesterday, and a reporter said that people want to get out, but the politicians don't want out. He was also daring enough to comment that this is an issue between the people and their leadership, not between parties. I don't know if that's true. It's just what a guy in British media reported.
NPR is like CNN is like BBC. Communist. Not a good source of info.
Quote from: SGOS on September 08, 2019, 05:05:18 AM
I was listening to a British news report on NPR yesterday, and a reporter said that people want to get out, but the politicians don't want out. He was also daring enough to comment that this is an issue between the people and their leadership, not between parties. I don't know if that's true. It's just what a guy in British media reported.
The reporter is correct. There is a constitutional crisis between People power vs Parliament power. The Parliament defeated Royal authority over centuries from 1642 until 1911. 1910 was the last time the monarch could even suggest policy. In 1911, the primary of House of Commons was set over House of Lords in addition. At that time members were actual peers. Now it is basically a retirement home for ex politicians and other notables. Recent poll puts 82% of public against Parliament.
So ... a small majority voted in favor of Brexit. And the government, like Greece, basically is refusing to follow the result. In Greece they simply set it aside. In GB, they are less honest ... they claimed they would implement it, but in fact they never had the intention to do that. The PM May deal basically keeps GB in the EU, in worse shape than simply staying as before (it is punishment to scare Italy, France etc).
As stated before, if GB believes in total superiority of House of Commons not People ... then they should never have any referenda. And have enough guts to cancel Article 50, to simply remain in the EU. Both Labor and Tories lied for the past 3 years. The voters can reward them for that or not. Usually voters reward liars pretty consistently. 1992 forward, the House of Commons surrendered sovereignty, in perpetuity, to the EU. In short, GB will become like Florida or any other un-state.
With hindsight, I couldn't support referenda state-wide (as in California) let alone nation-wide. I am at the point I am not in favor of any voting by regular people.
Quote from: Baruch on September 08, 2019, 06:01:48 AM
NPR is like CNN is like BBC. Communist. Not a good source of info.
Kind of like you, huh?! You are like faux news--the more you listen and watch the more stupid you become.
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 08, 2019, 12:09:01 PM
Kind of like you, huh?! You are like faux news--the more you listen and watch the more stupid you become.
The Communists believed Pravda, until Boris Yeltsin arrived. We will see EOD tomorrow what New Boris has up his sleeve. 53 more days. I am sure y'all cried liberal tears when the Soviet Union fell apart. Idealists, stuck inside "it's a small world after all" at Disney World.
Quote from: Baruch on September 08, 2019, 12:56:21 PM
The Communists believed Pravda, until Boris Yeltsin arrived. We will see EOD tomorrow what New Boris has up his sleeve. 53 more days. I am sure y'all cried liberal tears when the Soviet Union fell apart. Idealists, stuck inside "it's a small world after all" at Disney World.
Like I said--like faux news, the more one watches and listens, the more stupid one becomes.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 08, 2019, 02:18:26 AM
I also don't see how or why they should would hold and justify a second referendum. And even then, I am not certain the results would be different. They could be, people have since changed their minds. It might be done, mind you. But I would not go for one as a politician.
Well, the point of the referendum is to vote on the
real Brexit, not on the fairy dust and unicorn farts the Leave campaign ran onâ€"and then backtracked on the day after the vote. If the UK wants to leave on the terms of the May deal, or on no deal at all, they should say so explicitly, but if the real Brexit is not what they want, they shouldn't be forced into it just because a bare majority in a non-binding referendum voted on the basis of the inaccurate information Leave handed out.
Quote from: trdsf on September 08, 2019, 03:59:10 PM
Well, the point of the referendum is to vote on the real Brexit, not on the fairy dust and unicorn farts the Leave campaign ran onâ€"and then backtracked on the day after the vote. If the UK wants to leave on the terms of the May deal, or on no deal at all, they should say so explicitly, but if the real Brexit is not what they want, they shouldn't be forced into it just because a bare majority in a non-binding referendum voted on the basis of the inaccurate information Leave handed out.
But that's the point exactly. It was a non-binding referendum to start with. I think going out there as a politician and try to sell: 'we're going to set aside the last referendum and put up a new one, we'll promise we'll respect this one though', is political suicide.
And even if it falls one way or another, what are you going to do, have a third one to go best out of three? Or keep holding every five years to make sure it's still what the public wants?
I might very well be wrong, but I don't expect salvation from a second referendum, only more fodder for this ever-burning fire.
I also don't think the second referendum should be held for the same reason I don't believe the first should've been held. People elect politicians to know and do the smart things. It is not a perfect system, but I prefer a parliamentary democracy over a 'total' one. Simply because I realize I myself am ignorant about so many things one needs to know in order to make structurally sound governing choices. And I know this knowledge, and sometimes even more, is lacking in many fellow citizens. There might be a great deal of flemish and walloon citizens who want to see Belgium split up, butwe don't do that because the consequences calculated are horrible, even if their is a great body that feels principle matters more and who miscalculated the downside.
The first referendum was elected officials getting out of doing their duty and out of taking their responsibility. The second referendum would be the same cowardice spiel.
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 08, 2019, 03:53:51 PM
Like I said--like faux news, the more one watches and listens, the more stupid one becomes.
Is that how you became an idiot? (sarc) ... watching CNN and MSNBC?
Interested parties (blood sport unless you are British) ... will have to wait until EOD tomorrow at least. The three court cases are endlessly alive against prorogation. Initially two of them were defeated, but are now being appealed. And the third, in the N Irish court, hasn't had its initial judgement yet. Meanwhile, there is serious consideration by Tories to eventually challenge the legality of the Ben Law (the one just approved by House/Lords to tie the hands of the PM). So it may all ultimately fall into the hand of the Judiciary, to clear up the disagreement between the Executive and Legislative. I rather prefer the American system. The Executive/Legislative in GB, you can hardly tell them apart. And I don't think there is much clarity aside from tradition, if there is a dispute between the Monarch and the High Court. There simply isn't any common law on it (assuming the Monarch wanted to nullify a Judicial decision). It is pretty clear, the Monarch has no influence over either house of Parliament, since 1911.
Boris may resubmit the call for election on Monday, but defeat is certain. Prorogation may be overturned on Monday by the N Irish court. Boris says there won't be a legal challenge to the Ben Law until the day after the EU council meetings (Oct 17-18). There may be additional sackings of Tories by Boris on Monday or additional resignations, because of Tories colluding with foreign powers (Germany etc .. the EU isn't a country yet). If prorogation as is, holds ... then they will be out, Sept 10-Oct 13. Parliament returning to business on Oct 14. The Queen's Speech being set for Oct 14, the day they return. At that point, all unfinished business prior to OCt 14 is moot, and anything done has to be added to the calendar as if new business. Of course the "Forces of Darkness" could try to prevent the Queen's Speech.
Fun, fun for over 9 months now. GB is very different from the US. The accents are interesting, with large cast of heroes and villains. I think the biggest question swill be ... who plays Jeremy and who plays Boris, in the mini-series version. The Brits routinely do mini-series about recent politics. They did it for the Falklands, and for the 2016 Brexit referendum. I am hoping things will be mostly quiet for almost 5 weeks, so can spend time on other hobbies.
Here is the dramatized version of the original Brexit story ... starring Eggs Benedict ...
Brexit: The Uncivil War
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-YM8FnWZAU
Here is the real documentary ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=or-tzhDLUqo
Boris' father has written a Brexit thriller. Will Boris stay on script?
Which is more real? The documentary, the Cumberbatch movie, or the novel?
Quote from: Baruch on September 08, 2019, 05:52:04 PM
Is that how you became an idiot? (sarc) ... watching CNN and MSNBC?
You are quite like trump--if you say it, it is a lie. Therefore, if you dislike CNN and MSNBC, then I know they are a good source for news.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 08, 2019, 04:32:02 PM
But that's the point exactly. It was a non-binding referendum to start with. I think going out there as a politician and try to sell: 'we're going to set aside the last referendum and put up a new one, we'll promise we'll respect this one though', is political suicide.
And even if it falls one way or another, what are you going to do, have a third one to go best out of three? Or keep holding every five years to make sure it's still what the public wants?
I might very well be wrong, but I don't expect salvation from a second referendum, only more fodder for this ever-burning fire.
I also don't think the second referendum should be held for the same reason I don't believe the first should've been held. People elect politicians to know and do the smart things. It is not a perfect system, but I prefer a parliamentary democracy over a 'total' one. Simply because I realize I myself am ignorant about so many things one needs to know in order to make structurally sound governing choices. And I know this knowledge, and sometimes even more, is lacking in many fellow citizens. There might be a great deal of flemish and walloon citizens who want to see Belgium split up, butwe don't do that because the consequences calculated are horrible, even if their is a great body that feels principle matters more and who miscalculated the downside.
The first referendum was elected officials getting out of doing their duty and out of taking their responsibility. The second referendum would be the same cowardice spiel.
I don't know about 'salvation'. And it's entirely possible that the result could be 'leave' anyway. The point is that the Brexit that's on offer is in no way shape or form the Brexit that the Leave campaign said it would be. Crashing out is not what the UK was told they were voting for.
Personally, I think it should be a ranked-choice vote with 'Leave with the May deal', 'Leave with no deal' and 'Remain' the options. I'm sure none of those choices command an actual majority, so ranked choice will better identify the consensus of the electorate. And I really don't know which way that vote would go.
I'll also be surprised if there's not a general election before the year's out, producing yet another coalition. Whether it's Conservative/Brexit or Labour/LD/SNP/etc., again, there's just no way of knowing. An election is a huge hail mary play for all parties, but everyone's boxed into it now. The only difference of opinion is whether it should be before or after Oct 31.
Meanwhile, Stephen Fry and Pindex have some interesting things to think about re: why Brexitâ€"and particularly a no-deal Brexitâ€"is such a priority for the wealthy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HDFegpX5gI
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 08, 2019, 10:00:08 PM
You are quite like trump--if you say it, it is a lie. Therefore, if you dislike CNN and MSNBC, then I know they are a good source for news.
Psycho, but I love you anyway. Crazy people are cute, like AOC.
Politicians misrepresent/lie? Of course. Trillions of dollars are at stake. Millions of lives are at stake. What are a few misrepresentations among enemies?
So yes, Leave lied/Remain lied. EU is a burning sack of shit. Britain since 1910 has been a burning sack of shit. More fun to point at some other country, not my own.
My best example of why not to allow any referenda ... an actual Leave description (a huge thing) would involve 1000s of pages of government technical gibberish. Sure ... voters can tell from that what is true or false. So both pro/for failed on the basis of not enough information.
On the other hand, even not being British, I would despise every German shit pile for the last 2100 years ;-( The EU is yet another German shit pile ;-(( And don't even mention the warty Frogs!
"Nearly All British Airways Flights Canceled As Pilots Union Goes On Strike" ... which political party supports unions? Labor not Tories.
Quote from: Baruch on September 09, 2019, 04:40:45 AM
Psycho, but I love you anyway. Crazy people are cute, like AOC.
Politicians misrepresent/lie? Of course. Trillions of dollars are at stake. Millions of lives are at stake. What are a few misrepresentations among enemies?
So yes, Leave lied/Remain lied. EU is a burning sack of shit. Britain since 1910 has been a burning sack of shit. More fun to point at some other country, not my own.
My best example of why not to allow any referenda ... an actual Leave description (a huge thing) would involve 1000s of pages of government technical gibberish. Sure ... voters can tell from that what is true or false. So both pro/for failed on the basis of not enough information.
On the other hand, even not being British, I would despise every German shit pile for the last 2100 years ;-( The EU is yet another German shit pile ;-(( And don't even mention the warty Frogs!
I'm the psycho--yeah, sure....................looking in the mirror while you type still, I see. You go hyperbole on everything, so you are the classic case of crying 'wolf' all the time. You lie so much it is hard to figure out when you don't. And you exaggerate so much (all the time) that you are impossible to take seriously. And I'm the psycho. Your god has done a good job of scrambling your brains.
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 09, 2019, 11:33:32 AM
I'm the psycho--yeah, sure....................looking in the mirror while you type still, I see. You go hyperbole on everything, so you are the classic case of crying 'wolf' all the time. You lie so much it is hard to figure out when you don't. And you exaggerate so much (all the time) that you are impossible to take seriously. And I'm the psycho. Your god has done a good job of scrambling your brains.
When one has no argument, one engages in name calling. Are you are Froggy, Monsieur?
Bercow, Speaker of the House of Commons, announced his resignation. Either today (if election passes) or 10/31/19. He got a standing ovation from the Opposition bench, which is interesting since he is a Conservative. The Speaker is not allowed to be partisan. Twice this year he did all he could to help Labor. Once back in the Spring and once last week. Like the 21 Conservatives who got fired last week, and other Conservatives who have voluntarily resigned earlier this year, these were double agents for the Opposition bench (Labor or LibDem) or double agents from Führer Merkel, the Stazi leader of Communist Germany.
Just to be fun, the Opposition reminded the PM, that they have the power of both impeachment and attainder. With attainder, he can be arrested and punished without trial. How quaint our British cousins are ;-) They forgot to mention drawing and quartering for treason, the dominant political policy in GB since 1992.
Quote from: Baruch on September 09, 2019, 02:18:46 PM
When one has no argument, one engages in name calling. Are you are Froggy, Monsieur?
Baruch, you call everybody dumb and stupid and brainwashed and call everything shit and psycho and suff like that. Call your conversational partners hypocrites and such like.
You keep saying Germans are shit. French people are frogs, Europeans are morally bankrupt,... Or other stuff, many loaded terms over the past few years. Can't glue which accusation to who anymore.
Rock. Glass house. You know?
One might even get offended by what you say, were one to put any value in your opinion.
Quote from: Baruch on September 09, 2019, 02:18:46 PM
When one has no argument, one engages in name calling. Are you are Froggy, Monsieur?
You call the shit you come up with are 'arguments'? You are afraid of a real conversation. For a couple of years now, I have not read ANY arguments come from your shit filled fingers. You simply like to look flashy--you have no substance. Contrary--that is all you have. You put up words that means nothing. When it comes to ancient religion, you got it. You have arguments. Other than that, arguments are things you simply ignore. I only say these things (waste my time) is because at one time you had my esteem. I think deep disappoint has simply eaten what used to be a functioning mind---now it is just mush. I'm sorry to say that.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 09, 2019, 02:32:06 PM
Baruch, you call everybody dumb and stupid and brainwashed and call everything shit and psycho and suff like that. Call your conversational partners hypocrites and such like.
You keep saying Germans are shit. French people are frogs, Europeans are morally bankrupt,... Or other stuff, many loaded terms over the past few years. Can't glue which accusation to who anymore.
Rock. Glass house. You know?
One might even get offended by what you say, were one to put any value in your opinion.
I'd give you two likes if I could.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 09, 2019, 02:32:06 PM
Baruch, you call everybody dumb and stupid and brainwashed and call everything shit and psycho and suff like that. Call your conversational partners hypocrites and such like.
You keep saying Germans are shit. French people are frogs, Europeans are morally bankrupt,... Or other stuff, many loaded terms over the past few years. Can't glue which accusation to who anymore.
Rock. Glass house. You know?
One might even get offended by what you say, were one to put any value in your opinion.
Triggered? Shall I be a "midi-blouse" and use girly words while we enjoy tea and cakes?
I value your opinion. You are on the ground. Just like the Brits I read. I correlate and sort out what is being said by all parties, including normal talk show callers. I don't support the whole idea of referenda ... so indirectly I don't support Brexit that way. Parliament screwed up in 1992, creating a difficulty if they Brexit on many levels. Politically i do care, economically I do care. Emotionally I care most of all. Project Fear is very real, speak of exaggeration!
Yes, Americans love Europe (not). Only an American completely ignorant of European history over the last 250 years can be a Euro-phile. Until 1939 the US retained a War Department plan to make war on the British Empire. Wonder if we now have a DoD war plan against Germany/EU? Is Brexit part of the DoD war plan? Funny how I talked to a WW II veteran years ago, and he told me we had plans to take out that German ally, Sweden. Too innocent, yes?
Now, do I have sympathy? Yes. Has France fucked the world since King Louis XIV? Yes. Has England fucked the world since the Hundred Years War? Yes. I could be sympathetic to Germany, until 1871. Then their historical predation went into overdrive. And of course is the US aggressive? Yes.
I would be more proud of my Swiss ancestors over Austrian or regular Germanic. Who hates cheese and chocolates? USA is my football team, not yours. Though no doubt the Belgian football team can kick American ass, right? All fun between frenemies. Keep rivalry and animosity to sports, and out of politics! The Olympic ideal, that has failed to prevent war since 1896. Been to Athens, been to that stadium where the modern Olympics started. Been to Olympia too.
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 09, 2019, 02:45:22 PM
I'd give you two likes if I could.
Or just add a supportive comment ... oops, you just did!
Love the hate I get here. I would dry up without liberal tears (sarc).
Quote from: Baruch on September 09, 2019, 02:49:44 PM
Triggered? Shall I be a "midi-blouse" and use girly words while we enjoy tea and cakes?
Triggered? No, not really. I think you'll find I've never before complained of your derogative terms. At most I've complained of your relentless hyperbole and joked about your quantity over quality posts. I've come to let most of it be though, accepting that you and I find different goals for communication.
I'll defend your freedom to use the terms you use. Be it vague or even insulting.
What I will point out, however, is that calling someone out for calling you psycho when you literally called him psycho in the post before, for calling someone out for calling names when you do that in almost all your posts, is hypocritical. Don't want to change your vocabulary? Fine by me, but than at least take it in stride when someone talks about you in the same way. Because this? This is pathetic.
Quote from: Baruch on September 09, 2019, 02:50:41 PM
Or just add a supportive comment ... oops, you just did!
Love the hate I get hear. I would dry up without liberal tears (sarc).
Even in this, Baruch, you are mistaken. I don't hate you. Never have. But I do hate what you have become. You have gone from stupid comments to becoming irrelevant. Actually, I find it sad.
Looks like the British Parliament is about to lose Bercow:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agP0YIsASO8
I don't know how or whether this will affect Brexit, but I'll miss his "Owduuuuh!".
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 09, 2019, 03:57:14 PM
Looks like the British Parliament is about to lose Bercow:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agP0YIsASO8
I don't know how or whether this will affect Brexit, but I'll miss his "Owduuuuh!".
Always a sad thing when your favorite character gets written out of the series. :p
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 09, 2019, 03:57:14 PM
Looks like the British Parliament is about to lose Bercow:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agP0YIsASO8
I don't know how or whether this will affect Brexit, but I'll miss his "Owduuuuh!".
Well, BoJo the
Clown PM had just broken with all tradition and said they'd run a candidate against him in the next election -- by convention, the main parties do not oppose the Speaker seeking reelection. It's not a breach of the law, but it's a huge breach of protocol. Boris is positively Trumpian in his pettiness and insecurity.
Of course, Bercow knows the chances of a general election before 31 October are virtually nil, so it's this Parliament that will choose his successor, and this Parliament is in an empowered mood. The next Speaker will not be a lapdog for Boris either.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 09, 2019, 03:47:56 PM
Triggered? No, not really. I think you'll find I've never before complained of your derogative terms. At most I've complained of your relentless hyperbole and joked about your quantity over quality posts. I've come to let most of it be though, accepting that you and I find different goals for communication.
I'll defend your freedom to use the terms you use. Be it vague or even insulting.
What I will point out, however, is that calling someone out for calling you psycho when you literally called him psycho in the post before, for calling someone out for calling names when you do that in almost all your posts, is hypocritical. Don't want to change your vocabulary? Fine by me, but than at least take it in stride when someone talks about you in the same way. Because this? This is pathetic.
I am a radical centrist. I will drink the blood from your skulls, both R and L (sarc). I am the ONLY person who does insults? Do tell. This is fight club. If you don't have a Lolita outfit, then you can't join our Tea Party (pre Trump). Yes, EU person ... PC person ... I can only use words how and when I am allowed, by my opponents. Not happening.
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 09, 2019, 03:51:58 PM
Even in this, Baruch, you are mistaken. I don't hate you. Never have. But I do hate what you have become. You have gone from stupid comments to becoming irrelevant. Actually, I find it sad.
I have always been this way, haven't changed. I nuke communists. If Obama was made President-for-Life and the US became Haiti, you would be on a more even emotional keel, am I right? To a degree, I have to pick up the slack from the excommunication of Sir pr126.
Remember, Communism came from political Hegelianism. Hegelianism came from Christian Idealism plus Enlightenment Secularism. Christian Idealism derives directly from the Book of Acts. So .. this is Biblical after all.
Quote from: trdsf on September 09, 2019, 06:09:25 PM
Well, BoJo the Clown PM had just broken with all tradition and said they'd run a candidate against him in the next election -- by convention, the main parties do not oppose the Speaker seeking reelection. It's not a breach of the law, but it's a huge breach of protocol. Boris is positively Trumpian in his pettiness and insecurity.
Of course, Bercow knows the chances of a general election before 31 October are virtually nil, so it's this Parliament that will choose his successor, and this Parliament is in an empowered mood. The next Speaker will not be a lapdog for Boris either.
I predict, Bercow can't run as PM for the Tories. He could as PM for the LibDem. More his style. There will only be Brexiteers left in the Tories, and corpses.
Overall I liked Bercow (for last 9 months watching him). He did in fact break a rule (and in unwritten constitution, that is like a law to us) twice. The Speaker isn't to be partisan. But only Tories in Cabinet got involuntary purge. None of the other so-called Tories signed that oath of loyalty.
Quote from: Baruch on September 09, 2019, 06:29:37 PM
I am a radical centrist. I will drink the blood from your skulls, both R and L (sarc). I am the ONLY person who does insults? Do tell. This is fight club. If you don't have a Lolita outfit, then you can't join our tea party. Yes, EU person ... PC person ... I can only use words how and when I am allowed, by my opponents. Not happening.
You don't actually read the other poster's post or something?
My problem with you is not that you are rude in a silly sense. It's that you were being a hypocrite.
I'm not saying you can't insult people. I just don't think that if you do, you should complain like a child the moment someone else does it to you. That's lame.
I'm not telling you to shut up, but to put up (with it). You want to express your freedom of speech like a man, than take it like one too.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 09, 2019, 06:41:25 PM
You don't actually read the other poster's post or something?
My problem with you is not that you are rude in a silly sense. It's that you were being a hypocrite.
I'm not saying you can't insult people. I just don't think that if you do, you should complain like a child the moment someone else does it to you. That's lame.
I'm not telling you to shut up, but to put up (with it). You want to express your freedom of speech like a man, than take it like one too.
OK. Talking past each other again. BTW - never was the person MikeCL thought I was, whatever that was. On the old forum, politics was never discussed.
Like a man? Are you misogynist?
Quote from: Baruch on September 09, 2019, 07:00:53 PM
OK. Talking past each other again. BTW - never was the person MikeCL thought I was, whatever that was. On the old forum, politics was never discussed.
Like a man? Are you misogynist?
I guess you never were who I thought you were. I thought you were a level-headed person. Yep--totally wrong on that one. Infantile is what I'd label you basically. You don't know what you are, what you stand for or who and what you like/hate. And you are pointless to try to communicate with. So, I think I'll stop trying.
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 09, 2019, 07:33:05 PM
I guess you never were who I thought you were. I thought you were a level-headed person. Yep--totally wrong on that one. Infantile is what I'd label you basically. You don't know what you are, what you stand for or who and what you like/hate. And you are pointless to try to communicate with. So, I think I'll stop trying.
Compared to who? A lot of water under the bridge, since those days. Progress for gays, atheists out of the closet. All improvements. Dems turning into bra burning draft card burning druggies? Not an improvement. Labor turning into inconsistent Trotskyites? Not an improvement.
You don't communicate, you expect agreement. I never ever expect agreement. Meanwhile some quiet for a month+ ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1sQkEfAdfY
So the Remoaners can get in practice for their luxurious exile on the French Riviera, complaining how the poor are mistreated.
Wow. Scroll back (or up) to where Big Ben reads 1:15 and just watch. I've watched Parliament online for years and have never seen anything like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC339_cGt68
You mean, where the resignation of a Tory Speaker is given standing ovation by the Opposition bench, and sitting silence by the Tory bench? Bercow's retirement check is in Euros.
And how about the Nazi Queen? She gave assent rather than pocket veto. But then I have seen the film from 1933, where the Windsors were practicing their Sieg Heil (I suppose not expecting King Edward VIII to scupper it). Online the rage is building now to end the House of Lords and the Monarchy. So maybe we will see Cromwell 2.0 not Charles II (2.0).
With the GCHQ, MoD and Trident going to Germany soon, the US will no longer be in Nato, and the Special Relationship will be dead.
Quote from: Baruch on September 09, 2019, 07:00:53 PM
OK. Talking past each other again. BTW - never was the person MikeCL thought I was, whatever that was. On the old forum, politics was never discussed.
Like a man? Are you misogynist?
If anyone here is a glutton for negative reinforcement, it seems to be you, actually.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 10, 2019, 12:37:38 AM
If anyone here is a glutton for negative reinforcement, it seems to be you, actually.
The destruction of post-WW II Europe does bother me. Been ongoing Communist cell activity from before my parents were even born. Of course the Communists are active in the US also. As Chiang Kai-Shek said about Mao ... Communism is worse than invasion, it is cancer.
So there is nothing to be celebrated here, no more than the victory of Fascism over Europe in 1940 (will Stalin's help). Once the Muslim tools of the German Reich go into action, the gays and atheists will be first to go to the ovens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9goa4oI1gg
Film was in 2015. General Hodges retired in 2017, but here is his bio ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Hodges
The whole foreign policy is ... to keep Germany and Russia apart. True in 19th century with British Empire, inherited to the US in 1945.
PS - Most shocking ... that the British Empire was behind WW I and WW II ... as a divide and conquer strategy.
What will bercow do next? My bet is working As a waiter at fancy dress parties.
Hors-d'Å"uvre ? Hors-d'Å"uvre ?!
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 10, 2019, 01:11:34 AM
What will bercow do next? My bet is working As a waiter at fancy dress parties.
Hors-d'Å"uvre ? Hors-d'Å"uvre ?!
LOL
Quote from: drunkenshoe on September 05, 2019, 02:08:45 PM
Oh ffs, you run in your post like a headless chicken.
I laughed.....perhaps too long.
Quote from: aitm on September 10, 2019, 08:54:49 AM
I laughed.....perhaps too long.
Only one headless group of chickens ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4Ui4XsV6Yg
Too bad they are too young to be sent to McDonalds for nuggets processing.
Blocked election last to business days, now they want an election (probably after 10/31).
Well, Parliament is prorogued, what else is on the telly?
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 10, 2019, 07:30:52 PM
Well, Parliament is prorogued, what else is on the telly?
Savalas?
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 10, 2019, 07:38:54 PM
Savalas?
Who loves ya, baby?
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61wMJCknEDL._SY450_.jpg)
Metacommentary on my political commentary ...
"What’s he prattling about now? Making waves. Stirring up trouble. It’s sleeping at night. Moving
around during the day. Pissing and passing excrement. Clouds moving, streams flowing, leaves
falling, flowers scattering. But hesitate or stop to think and hell rears up in all its hellish forms. Yes,
practice is like that all right, but until you penetrate by the cold sweat of your brow and see it for
yourself, there’s trouble in store for you, and plenty of it!" ... Zen Master Hakuin, 1744, Commentary on the Heart Sutra
When the student is ready, the scholarly cross-reference appears.
I am a trope ...
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Cloudcuckoolander
Quote from: Baruch on September 11, 2019, 02:44:49 AM
I am a trope ...
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Cloudcuckoolander
That, or schizophrenia. It's a toss really ;)
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 11, 2019, 06:04:08 AM
That, or schizophrenia. It's a toss really ;)
No he WANT'S to be a trope. He isn't.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 11, 2019, 06:13:49 AM
No he WANT'S to be a trope. He isn't.
You are found out, also ...
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RamblingOldManMonologue
Quote from: Baruch on September 11, 2019, 06:36:06 AM
You are found out, also ...
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RamblingOldManMonologue
Well there was one time . I was maybe 9 or 10 then. And it was Summer. Oh man the skeeters were fierce that year. But we were pickin beans and that was bean-snappin time with Gramma. She could make dumplings like you couldn't believe. Grampa loved those beans. He had the best toolshop in the town. Sawdust on the floor and fancy buts dropped in there for us kids to search for...
You mean like that?
Would you believe I once wrote for Firesign Theater? I created the "I saw her spread-eagled on the floor but I beat the eagle off" line. But I ran out of new ideas. Life is cruel.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 11, 2019, 07:41:27 AM
Well there was one time . I was maybe 9 or 10 then. And it was Summer. Oh man the skeeters were fierce that year. But we were pickin beans and that was bean-snappin time with Gramma. She could make dumplings like you couldn't believe. Grampa loved those beans. He had the best toolshop in the town. Sawdust on the floor and fancy buts dropped in there for us kids to search for...
You mean like that?
Would you believe I once wrote for Firesign Theater? I created the "I saw her spread-eagled on the floor but I beat the eagle off" line. But I ran out of new ideas. Life is cruel.
That was funny.
"'Prorogation is unlawful' rules Scotland's highest court" ... doest to British Supreme Court next week. Basically the Queen is subservient to Scotland. Time for the English to invade Scotland again.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on September 10, 2019, 09:22:09 PM
Who loves ya, baby?
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61wMJCknEDL._SY450_.jpg)
Ha! I forgot about the lollipops.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 11, 2019, 07:41:27 AM
Well there was one time . I was maybe 9 or 10 then. And it was Summer. Oh man the skeeters were fierce that year. But we were pickin beans and that was bean-snappin time with Gramma. She could make dumplings like you couldn't believe. Grampa loved those beans. He had the best toolshop in the town. Sawdust on the floor and fancy buts dropped in there for us kids to search for...
You mean like that?
Would you believe I once wrote for Firesign Theater? I created the "I saw her spread-eagled on the floor but I beat the eagle off" line. But I ran out of new ideas. Life is cruel.
My favorite line is
“From 30 feet away she looked like a lot of class. From 10 feet away she looked like something made up to be seen from 30 feet away.â€
Raymond Chandler.
:-P
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 11, 2019, 01:38:08 PM
Ha! I forgot about the lollipops.
Well, Kojak... I never watched the show, but it was a cultural reference...
Yeah, I hardly watched it at all, either, that's probably why I forgot the lollipops.
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 11, 2019, 01:50:18 PM
Yeah, I hardly watched it at all, either, that's probably why I forgot the lollipops.
Bald head, smiling guy, lollipops, that about it for me. We watched more Gunsmoke and Bonanza...
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 11, 2019, 01:41:43 PM
My favorite line is
“From 30 feet away she looked like a lot of class. From 10 feet away she looked like something made up to be seen from 30 feet away.â€
Raymond Chandler.
:-P
My favorite is from The Thrilling Adventure Hour's "Beyond Belief" section: "She was the kind of dame they write similes about.";
Quote from: Baruch on September 11, 2019, 11:09:06 AM
"'Prorogation is unlawful' rules Scotland's highest court" ... doest to British Supreme Court next week. Basically the Queen is subservient to Scotland. Time for the English to invade Scotland again.
N Ireland court agreed with the earlier Gina Miller suit in England that the prorogation is legal. Don't know if there is an equivalent English version of the N Irish/Scottish challenge. All these are being appealed. The Scottish anti-prorogation decision being appealed to the GB High Court for final review.
When the courts get involved in partisan politics, you know that the other two branches of government aren't doing their job ;-( Review courts are designed to arbitrate abstract legal conflicts across multiple jurisdictions, not decide policy or execution of policy. The US version is somewhat more defined vertically, but we have many more judicial jurisdictions horizontally!
Bercow at speech, but not yet out of office, reiterated that ... "Brexit can only happen by positive action of Parliament, not by inaction (no-deal)" ... even though current law says exactly that. Further proof he is ... biased politically, contrary to the requirements of his office.
Quote from: Baruch on September 13, 2019, 06:57:19 AM
Bercow at speech, but not yet out of office, reiterated that ... "Brexit can only happen by positive action of Parliament, not by inaction (no-deal)" ... even though current law says exactly that. Further proof he is ... biased politically, contrary to the requirements of his office.
I don't think it is a problem unless he exacts his bias in his role. With a prorogued Parliament, he's currently not active as a speaker.
But yes, hard brexit can be achieved through inaction.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 13, 2019, 10:53:14 AM
I don't think it is a problem unless he exacts his bias in his role. With a prorogued Parliament, he's currently not active as a speaker.
But yes, hard brexit can be achieved through inaction.
Currently. Lower and High court might complete review and all challenges to prorogation and Benn bill (Extend) on Tuesday. That seems awfully fast by American standards. There are numerous constitutional questions that could be rationalized across issues, that either defines better current law, or changes the interpretation of the law.
"Poll: Majority Of Brits (Including A Third Of Remainers) Want Brexit Vote Respected" ... that is across all forms of Brexit (no agreement there). The communist revolutionary cell (Labor/Lib-Dem/Green) of course deny this. The public has a "false consciousness" and need leading by the progressive cadre.
Here is Prof. Starkey's update ... with background history (constitution from Glorious Revolution of 1688 is dead).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uUYRcFXVQ8
General background on this scholar ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8bECAHIgNQ
You can thank that giant of the London Times ... Karl Marx.
Quote from: trdsf on September 12, 2019, 10:46:31 AM
My favorite is from The Thrilling Adventure Hour's "Beyond Belief" section: "She was the kind of dame they write similes about.";
"She was spread-eagled on the floor. I beat the eagle off with a stick"...
Firesign Theater - Nick Danger, Third Eye
More Prof Starkey on why the Tower is necessary .... a podcast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUxV6SvQHc0
More and more voices calling for demonstrations or violence against the Remainer parties.
Couple days ago, the N Irish court ruled that no-deal Brexit is legal. That pretty much leaves both prorogation and no-deal Brexit up to the High Court in London, which is probably where all the appeals to recent judicial decisions will directly end up.
Quote from: Baruch on September 15, 2019, 03:56:43 PM
Couple days ago, the N Irish court ruled that no-deal Brexit is legal. That pretty much leaves both prorogation and no-deal Brexit up to the High Court in London, which is probably where all the appeals to recent judicial decisions will directly end up.
In fairness, I think the prorogation is lawful and legal too.
A dick move.
But a legal one. In my amateuristic view.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 15, 2019, 04:05:08 PM
In fairness, I think the prorogation is lawful and legal too.
A dick move.
But a legal one. In my amateuristic view.
We can't all get what we want for Xmas or our birthday. Better than mass pogroms.
“Anti-Brexit EU Empire Builders!†… Dutch MEP Guy Verhovstadt was at LibDem party meeting yesterday, speaking of the EU as a 4th Reich, in competition with China, Russia and the US.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixuLdVCLUPY
Sign up today, in the EU Wehrmacht.
Quote from: Baruch on September 16, 2019, 10:09:36 AM
“Anti-Brexit EU Empire Builders!†… Dutch MEP Guy Verhovstadt was at LibDem party meeting yesterday, speaking of the EU as a 4th Reich, in competition with China, Russia and the US.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixuLdVCLUPY
Sign up today, in the EU Wehrmacht.
Belgian MEP, Dutch language
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 16, 2019, 02:10:32 PM
Belgian MEP, Dutch language
Ah. Thanks. Shouldn't media clearly label him ... Walloon? With emphasis on Walloon? I understand under that corner of MEP politics, he is like a "witch hunter general", a minister without portfolio?
So ... how about Poland, Hungary, Romania from the East, and GB from the West, invading EU for WW III?
Quote from: Baruch on September 16, 2019, 03:18:18 PM
Ah. Thanks. Shouldn't media clearly label him ... Walloon? With emphasis on Walloon? I understand under that corner of MEP politics, he is like a "witch hunter general", a minister without portfolio?
So ... how about Poland, Hungary, Romania from the East, and GB from the West, invading EU for WW III?
Flemish, not walloon. :p
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 16, 2019, 03:34:59 PM
Flemish, not walloon. :p
Your native language is Flemish. MEP Verhofstadt is?
The PRC-like reeducation effort (reminding me of the Cultural Revolution of the 60s) was cringing.
PM of Luxembourg just got thru with a ritual humiliation of the PM of GB (and representative of Queen Elizabeth). The American dead (including General Patton) buried in Luxembourg, should rise up and haunt the W European Marxists. General Patton was right, in 1945 invade the Soviet Union etc and exterminate the Communists. In fact, Hitler did nothing wrong ;-(
Junker-Johnson lunch was escargot, salmon and cheese. Is there a problem with Fukushima pollution?
Quote from: Baruch on September 16, 2019, 04:28:06 PM
Your native language is Flemish. MEP Verhofstadt is?
The PRC-like reeducation effort (reminding me of the Cultural Revolution of the 60s) was cringing.
PM of Luxembourg just got thru with a ritual humiliation of the PM of GB (and representative of Queen Elizabeth). The American dead (including General Patton) buried in Luxembourg, should rise up and haunt the W European Marxists. General Patton was right, in 1945 invade the Soviet Union etc and exterminate the Communists. In fact, Hitler did nothing wrong ;-(
Guy is flemish, as am I. Our first language is Dutch, though we call it flemish in the same way Americans might call their English as speaking 'american'.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 16, 2019, 04:34:26 PM
Guy is flemish, as am I. Our first language is Dutch, though we call it flemish in the same way Americans might call their English as speaking 'american'.
Damn, can't keep Walloon vs Flemish straight. And thought Guy was from Netherlands.
Quote from: Baruch on September 16, 2019, 04:37:19 PM
Damn, can't keep Walloon vs Flemish straight. And thought Guy was from Netherlands.
That's okay.
We are a small and confusing country.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 16, 2019, 04:50:11 PM
That's okay.
We are a small and confusing country.
How about some happy talk. So tourism-wise ... compare Netherlands with Belgium. I have heard both are attractive destinations. Is there anybody at home in August, like the rest of Europe?
Quote from: Baruch on September 16, 2019, 05:36:27 PM
How about some happy talk. So tourism-wise ... compare Netherlands with Belgium. I have heard both are attractive destinations. Is there anybody at home in August, like the rest of Europe?
Most Belgians and people from the Netherlands tend to go other places in the summer, and many go skiing in the winter.
I would personally call neither Belgium nor Holland especially great holiday countries. Not that they don't have anything worth seeing. My brother's gf, an American and my best friend's gf, a South Korean (I think), love it here.
But the Belgian beach line is awful: nothing but huge buildings on far to small a coast. we have worthwhile cities like Bruges, Antwerp, Ghent, louvain, and even Bruxelles. Though I tend to avoid the latter.
The Netherlands has nice cities too, but they have less personality. In Holland houses have to be much more uniform in their outward appearance (color, housedoor, building material, etc). There is no denying the touristic appeal of Amsterdam. Marihuana capital of Europe. Great sights there too. And the Anna frank museum. A must see, IMHO. Other than that and Rotterdam, I'm hard pressed to name any worthwhile places though.
(though I'm hoping to go watch POTF in Tilburg.)
The truetrump card of Holland over Belgium lies in its diverse scenery, however, it has small islands, it has more green, you have different kinds of beaches,... And to boot a safari-zoo and the most magical amusement park: Efteling.
To counter, many Belgians and people from the Netherlands tend to spend a week or longer each winter in the walloon. The Ardennes are most lovely. Also our quisine and beer are much, much better than what people in Holland muster.
Most of them even agree.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 16, 2019, 07:06:27 PMThe truetrump card of Holland over Belgium lies in its diverse scenery, however, it has small islands, it has more green, you have different kinds of beaches,... And to boot a safari-zoo and the most magical amusement park: Efteling.
(https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0f/5c/aa/67/photo0jpg.jpg)
It's like Disneyland meets Black Sabbath. ðŸ˜
Tulip time in Netherlands? I would expect the food to be good. Why is Belgium better than Netherlands, other than beer?
Tiptoeing through the tulips?
Quote from: Baruch on September 16, 2019, 08:00:17 PM
Tulip time in Netherlands? I would expect the food to be good. Why is Belgium better than Netherlands, other than beer?
Other?
LOL, no. For what I just said. Not it's beaches. But the Ardennes are immensely lovely. More nice looking cities and cuisine, but no potsmoking capitol.
Also, belgian people are less outgoing. More reserved. So depends on what you ant to do with your holiday. You want to party? Go to Amsterdam. You want a sightseeing citytrip with lots of r and r? Go to Flanders. Can you do o'e in the other though? Yes.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 16, 2019, 04:34:26 PM
Guy is flemish, as am I. Our first language is Dutch, though we call it flemish in the same way Americans might call their English as speaking 'american'.
But then so little people know how close the world came to speak Dutch instead of English and then the US, German instead of 'American'. Ahahah. E: OK, that's apparently a myth, but then Dutch part is not.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on September 17, 2019, 03:42:42 AM
But then so little people know how close the world came to speak Dutch instead of English and then the US, German instead of 'American'. Ahahah. E: OK, that's apparently a myth, but then Dutch part is not.
The Dutch were a power until WW II (Dutch East Indies/Indonesia). They even conquered England (William and his hated Oranges). A few of my ancestors, way back, were Dutch in New Amsterdam. As it is "Dollar" comes from the Dutch "Daler/Daalder" which was the financial reference in New Amsterdam (NYC). In actual practice, pieces of eight (Eight reales/Spanish colonial) was the primary coin in the American colonies, and in the USA until 1858.
Well, I'm following the UK Supreme Court hearing on prorogation today. I have no idea which way they'll go.
Quote from: trdsf on September 17, 2019, 09:32:17 AM
Well, I'm following the UK Supreme Court hearing on prorogation today. I have no idea which way they'll go.
It is the job of the barristers and attorneys for us not to know.
Far more boring than the House of Commons. I expect this court room drama was not be renewed next season ;-)
Thoughts on today's arguments.
- The government's lawyer has veered dangerously close to Richard Nixon's line in the runup to US v Nixon, when he remarked that he would follow a "definitive" Supreme Court ruling, hinting he might ignore a divided court and hide behind a dissent's reasoning. This backfired dramatically as it drove the court to seek a unanimous opinion particularly. I can't see his non-reply to the question of what Boris would do in the event of a loss satisfying many of the justices.
- Another point of the government's case is essentially "you shouldn't be even thinking about reviewing this", and that's also a dangerous dragon to poke.
- The government have a much stronger case when they just stick to historical political uses of prorogation.
- I suspect that the court's decision will hinge mainly on whether Boris' "request"(not that she had any options in the matter) to the Queen was misleading. Absent that, and with the obvious disclaimer that I Am Not A British Constitutional Expert, and assuming the court is hesitant to get involved in a purely political matter, my expectation is that it'll require a finding that the PM acted in bad faith to rule against the government.
I plan to stay tuned.
Remainers, will use legal means to assure EU victory. If that doesn't work, Labor et al will implement violent revolution. Ex PM Tony Blair (Labor) implied as much earlier this year. Universal victory of Marxism is assured.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wummeariqA
Do politicians act in bad faith? They all do. Corbyn is a Communist.
"Anti-Brexit prorogation barrister channels slavery!" ... courts deciding to allow Brexit to go forward, is the same as 19th century slavery.
Last day for Supreme court (not High Court) to be in session. Judgement delayed until next week. Several different judicial gambits proposed regarding role of Supreme Court in the long run. This institution is only 10 years old ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_the_United_Kingdom
Johnson says "no press here" as press looks on:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3OhFdfhbkA
I do wonder, if Johnson was middle eastern, but with the exact same mannerisms and personality, would you regard him as the uk trump then?
Quote from: Munch on September 20, 2019, 09:06:28 PM
I do wonder, if Johnson was middle eastern, but with the exact same mannerisms and personality, would you regard him as the uk trump then?
Americans not as enamored of "progressive" Muslims as Brits are. Meanwhile I see a pattern ...
The UK is run by a Dungeon Master in a real life D&D session like in the 1980s. The complexity of events in UK is because of the many-sided dice used in that sophomoric amusement.
Quote from: Munch on September 20, 2019, 09:06:28 PM
I do wonder, if Johnson was middle eastern, but with the exact same mannerisms and personality, would you regard him as the uk trump then?
Yes, but the fact that he literally looks like Trump's slighty dorkier brother makes it much more on the nose.
Quote from: Shiranu on September 21, 2019, 12:27:26 AM
Yes, but the fact that he literally looks like Trump's slighty dorkier brother makes it much more on the nose.
Final stage of TDS? Everyone looks like Trump. Like bad episode of Star Trek Next Generation, where Worf and son are in the holodeck, and all the other characters turn into versions of Data.
At Labor party conference, it is night of the long knives, as internecine struggle resumes between Blairites and Corbynites.
On one Youtube posting, a guy posing as Boris Johnson commented about the controversy ...
"Labor are poopyheads". LoL
The Supreme Court (UK, 11 justices), a recent invention of Tony Blaire (Labor) ... has sided against the Government (Boris Johnson) in favor of the opposition (Jeremy Corbin et al). Basically you can't do anything in the UK, without full permission of the opposition bench (or other litigants). If you extend this ruling to beyond (when and how many days you can prorogue). Basically the PM power is not unlimited in areas not already limited by statute (there was almost no law specifying limits on prorogue). The conversations with the Queen remain inviolate however.
Fascinating sport, more interesting than watching football (soccer) in my opinion. More like cock fighting.
The ruling can be appealed to the EU court system.
On another line, a UK court found in favor of Brexit, against the charge that the managing of the Leave campaign in 2016 did anything substantially improper aka illegal.
So, they inch ever closer to Civil War in the UK. If that happens, I don't see the EU gaining any brownie points, since they may end up being subject to kinetic offenses.
So, we will see what Boris will do. I really don't think he is up to a Churchillian performance. Nobody is.
Well. I did not expect quite so sweeping and definitive a judgment by the UK Supreme Court. So Parliament returns tomorrow and BoJo the Clown has been absolutely humiliatedâ€"has he won a vote on anything yet?
Meanwhile, Labour appears to have done something right: committed to a third referendum rather than committing to overturning the last one without a public vote. It plays better alongside the narrative about Boris having acted in an anti-democratic manner.
Where they're going to come up with a credible deal to put on the ballot, I don't know, and how they're going to get it to happen in coalition with the Remain-committed LD and SNP is another good question (there's no way Corbyn gets a majority out of any upcoming election). And on top of that are going to be the inevitable calls to once and for all come up with a single written UK constitutionâ€"another unenviable task in the current climate.
Nope, don't think he has won a single vote! But beware of getting what one asks for. Usually humiliation results in violence ;-(
There have been minor wins in the courts. It might be a good thing if the 10/31 date is missed, because it implies that the Tories are done as a party, permanently. Assuming the MI6 assassinates the Brexit Party leadership ... that leaves the Labor and LibDem ... basically old Marxism vs new Marxism. The written British constitution is simple ... "wir ergeben uns bedingungslos" ... "we surrender unconditionally". The Windsors won't need a translator.
If 1/2 the population doesn't like that they can move to Australia. The monarchy too. The Australian press is closer to the US, whereas NZ and Canada are basically branch offices of the BBC. If 25 million migrate to Australia, they will be better positioned to put up a resistance to the Chicoms. Some Australians are already suggesting they get an independent nuclear deterrent. They can simply move the GB Tridents down under ... the US won't give nukes to Germany.
Then Corbyn can be the Viceroy of the German Raj over the UK. It is not the intent of Germany, to make German citizens out of the rest of the EU ... that would prevent the parasitism of their mercantilism. No more than China wants to convert Japan to Chinese citizens, they want wage slaves.
Meanwhile, the EU is demanding a solid alternative or way to go to be presented by the end of September, by the UK, or they say 'the game is up'. Mere flexing? Maybe. I honestly don't know.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 24, 2019, 11:37:56 AM
Meanwhile, the EU is demanding a solid alternative or way to go to be presented by the end of September, by the UK, or they say 'the game is up'. Mere flexing? Maybe. I honestly don't know.
There is a proposal, on paper, being firmed up. But Tories can't release it, or Witch Finder General Corbyn will have a hissy fit all over it ;-)
So that is what will be proposed (if Boris isn't thrown out immediately) to the EU. And then it is public, and the EU can agree or not, and Corbyn can criticize every punctuation and letter. And EU can agree or disagree, if the proposal is good enough to extend Brexit until Jan 31, 2020. Assuming the EU likes the proposal, and that meets the requirement for a "reasonable" reason to extend Brexit a bit longer, then that meets the existing demands of Parliament. What can Corbyn do then? I do hope that Queens Speech does happen pretty soon. Preferably that and General Election, before 10/31.
PS - "Leak documents show Attorney General advised PM that suspension was 'lawful'" ... see, see! Think the British AG needs to find a new job!
Remainer Parliament gets 5/6 more days to bollocks about. Still within the Fixed Term law, that Corbyn could become a minority PM in place of the existing minority PM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkPNfR3Z5Yo
With GB losing military capability to the EU, then NATO is dead, so is the Special Relationship. GB becomes a joint enemy of the US, along with the rest of the EU.
Review of the judicial result etc ...
We have seen this year, two fundamental changes in the unwritten British constitution, without what the US would consider normal procedure ...
1. Bercow on two occasions, by letting open intervention by the Opposition, changed British procedural law vis-a-vis Parliament, without a vote of Parliament
2. The Supreme Court, acted just today, to make what is in effect, a constitutional amendment, changing the relationship between the three powers (legislative, executive and judicial). The judicial branch is now much more powerful.
Of course in US political history, proper amendment of procedural law, or constitutional law, has happened as a fait accompli. Even though we have written low governing how that is done. Most recently the Election 2000 decision by the US Supreme Court.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 24, 2019, 11:37:56 AM
Meanwhile, the EU is demanding a solid alternative or way to go to be presented by the end of September, by the UK, or they say 'the game is up'. Mere flexing? Maybe. I honestly don't know.
I don't think end of September is going to be realistic. Even the most punchable face in British politics, Nigel Farage, is saying it was a disastrous decision and Boris should stand down (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49810261) and that Brexit on 31 October is now impossible (https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-49807552?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5d8a466a8f6b18067be8181c%26Prospect%20of%20Halloween%20Brexit%20%27evaporated%27%20-%20Farage%262019-09-24T16%3A40%3A53.990Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:30fe28b5-aa1e-4639-9379-b3c19b913114&pinned_post_asset_id=5d8a466a8f6b18067be8181c&pinned_post_type=share).
Hey, Boris, quick note: when even a serious nutjob like Farage is making more sense than you are, it's probably time to bail out.
Quote from: trdsf on September 24, 2019, 06:34:09 PM
I don't think end of September is going to be realistic. Even the most punchable face in British politics, Nigel Farage, is saying it was a disastrous decision and Boris should stand down (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49810261) and that Brexit on 31 October is now impossible (https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-49807552?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5d8a466a8f6b18067be8181c%26Prospect%20of%20Halloween%20Brexit%20%27evaporated%27%20-%20Farage%262019-09-24T16%3A40%3A53.990Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:30fe28b5-aa1e-4639-9379-b3c19b913114&pinned_post_asset_id=5d8a466a8f6b18067be8181c&pinned_post_type=share).
Hey, Boris, quick note: when even a serious nutjob like Farage is making more sense than you are, it's probably time to bail out.
Communists do no wrong? Such a 1960s slogan.
Just gonna leave this here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0pTpwqkB48
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on September 24, 2019, 11:37:56 AM
Meanwhile, the EU is demanding a solid alternative or way to go to be presented by the end of September, by the UK, or they say 'the game is up'. Mere flexing? Maybe. I honestly don't know.
They're probably just getting as tired with the almost leaving as we all are.
(https://i.redd.it/p6rugetxylp21.jpg)
The House of Commons has resumed, in the usual civilized English way (SNP sucks balls), as if nothing has happened! But given how raucous it usually is, how can we tell?
Too bad their house speaker can't call for "OOORDEEER!" to the whole damned world!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4NOhbUOAEs
Quote from: Munch on September 25, 2019, 03:14:51 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4NOhbUOAEs
Finally, someone who can present all this oddness in a clear and concise way. Very informative.
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 25, 2019, 01:23:54 PM
Too bad their house speaker can't call for "OOORDEEER!" to the whole damned world!
Bercow was originally Berkowitz. Jewish probably ;-)
Uh...is there a point there, somewhere?
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 25, 2019, 06:11:20 PM
Uh...is there a point there, somewhere?
Sarcasm ...
All Jews are behind all wealth, socialism and other corruption. Haven't you read your Protocols? On the uncensored Internet, the calls for expulsion of Jews has been running strong since 2015. And Agenda 21 can't ever happen, unless they kill the Jews first.
“I am altering the deal, pray I don’t alter it any further.†- Darth Vader, “The Empire Strikes Backâ€
So is Darth = Corbyn or Darth = Johnson?
Listening yesterday and today, AG Cox and PM Johnson were well spoken, in spite of so many "missed goals".
BTW - during the Labor conference last week, the Corbynite wing of their party, stuffed the floor with unauthorized delegates, so that the Blairite wing would lose. The chair of the meeting knew this but said that she wouldn't intervene to clear the "clack" from the floor of the convention. Basically a lawless group, what you would expect from champaign communists.
Remainers in love (to tune Lawyers in Love) ... the Benn bill aka Surrender act not enough. They want an extension request to the EU, immediately, not before 10/31 ... and they want to make the Speaker, Bercow ... defacto PM, in regards to Brexit. No elections necessary. Meanwhile the Labor party went off the deep end last week, at their party conference, recommending extreme Left policies to be adopted by their party as official policy.
Best cock fight in town!
D'you wonder if the Queen ever thinks, "In the old days, I could have just ordered you lot beheaded..."
It has to be a tempting thought, now and again.
Quote from: trdsf on September 30, 2019, 08:11:18 PM
D'you wonder if the Queen ever thinks, "In the old days, I could have just ordered you lot beheaded..."
It has to be a tempting thought, now and again.
The crown has been nothing, since 1911. King George V could have prevented British participation in WW I, which was primed by his father, King Edward VII (at the behest of President Teddy Roosevelt). So they are a total waste of money, except for tourism.
"British MEPs (Lib/Dem) urge Juncker not to do a deal with Johnson" ... but not an act of treason by the Remainiacs.
So Boris is all the way into Donald-land, apparently.
One month before the target exit date -- and less than three weeks from the "pass it or get an extension" date forced on him by Parliament, BoJo the Clown is *finally* going to talk specifics about his Brexit plan (well, I'll believe it when I see it). Apparently his "big idea" is to have custom checks somewhere other than the Northern Ireland border. How that resolves things other than in a cosmetic sense is a damn good question.
Anyway, I think the opposition parties are going to not pull anything cute during the Conservative conference -- the smartest thing they can do is cede the "I'm an asshole!" territory to Boris, not compete for it, and once they settle on who the caretaker PM should be (I think the most sensible choice is Ken Clarke -- Corbyn needs to quit kidding himself, Clarke can bring at least some of the Tories on board), they can knock the supports out from under BoJo next week, delay Brexit, and call a general election.
Can the PM make any formal proposal before the formal conference meeting at EU in mid-October? And he can't share what he is doing with the rest of the Parliament, because they will only trash it, like a bird in a cage over the discarded newspaper.
For those unfamiliar with the unwritten British constitution, this explanation is funny ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMXJOKhf_AA
Well, it's gonna come right down to the wire, it seems. The suspense is killing me!
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 01, 2019, 01:35:28 PM
Well, it's gonna come right down to the wire, it seems. The suspense is killing me!
President Truman 1948 ... went to bed early. Woke up to a pleasant surprise.
Do you care about political rugby in other countries too much? I find the British version to be a jolly good show ;-) I have no dog in their dog show.
PMs proposal, involves a modified Irish border plan with time limit (4 years). Already Ireland is saying they can't accept it. The PM says, if this proposal for a modified Irish border is rejected (and we don't know what else is in the plan) ... then it is no-deal Brexit no matter what Parliament decides.
More detail ... 4 years at a time with modified border between Republic and N Ireland. And N Ireland gets to renew every 4 years, but can drop at the end of term if they don't want to continue. This creates further mess, because Scotland will want the same deal. Gibraltar also voted Remain. Of course Ireland or others may refuse this compromise. The EU Empire need not compromise with anyone. Just ask Guy Verhofstadt.
QuoteThe Prime Minister this week made new proposals to the European Union for Brexit, although the auguries are not good - with the European Commission tonight saying member states had agreed there is "no basis for an agreement".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MUutdu5eFs
Who knew milk would be such a problem?
Channel 4 is part of BBC. BBC is part of the Labor/LibDem coalition.
What is interesting, is that the proposed revised Irish border, is one that the EU proposed earlier in the PM May negotiations. If they turn it down, they have turned down one of their own proposals. It was PM May who proposed the tighter Irish border plan, that the Conservatives want to dump. Also, earlier, PM May had proposed a more lose free-trade zone between GB and the EU, and that died as well ... a deal that also would be considered a winning idea today. So basically it is more down to PM May being devious, not the EU being devious.
Later from PM Johnson, he tweeted something contradictory to the attestation presented to the Scottish court. Speaking out of both sides of his mouth at the same time. He has matured as a politician and ventriloquist.
"UK's First Alleged Case Of Brexit Psychosis" .. the man already had and underlying schizophrenia. But we can expect under lying mental illness that gets tangled up, as a symptom with BDS and TDS.
Expected Letwin amendment again, to establish anarcho-syndicalism (Left Anarchist) as the ideology of GB. This time supported by DUP, the North Irish Remainers.
"Hundreds of thousands march in London for a Brexit deal vote" ... repeat of the Spring voting. Same Parliament, some changes to the May Treaty, but same result. His Royal Highness Letwin rules with an iron fist with the help of Bercow the Terrible.
Basically "meaningful vote" carried over until next week. And as it has been continuously since PM May failed on her first treaty vote in January (greatest repudiation of a PM ever), Parliament is free to add as many blocking amendments as they feel like.
This will not end good on Nov 5 ... Guy Fawkes Day coming to destroy the British government.
Could be like Hamas and Likud, both sharing the same territory (as if Israel/Palestine had reached a one-territory agreement) and fighting internally rather than externally.
Two letters sent to Brussels. First asks for extension, but not signed by the PM, only signed by MP Barrow. Second letter asks to not extend, is signed by the PM, explains that the first letter is from Parliament, not government (and thus illegitimate per British constitution).
Request for extension filed, without passion.
Vote postponed.
Come Tuesday, what will happen in the next week?
Cliffhanger
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on October 20, 2019, 05:53:45 AM
Request for extension filed, without passion.
Vote postponed.
Come Tuesday, what will happen in the next week?
Cliffhanger
It is unclear, if the three letters (not two) sent by GB to EU meet the requirements of the Benn-law. Potential of no-deal exit still being prepared for as a contingency. All Letwin-laws are narrowly defined to block any no-deal exit, during some finite time period. It is unknown if Letwin-laws could hold up in court ... same with the Benn-law.
There is a small chance of blocking of "meaningful vote" by Remainers led by Bercow. Small chance of additional amendments to the Boris/EU agreement (forcing new referendum for example). But it is possible for passing Boris/EU agreement in some form as civil law, since given the new Letwin law (good thru 10/31), some Remainers say they are willing to switch. See how complicated lawyers make everything?
There are two different levels of approval. If it passes civil law, but not "meaningful vote" aka treaty then GB has still left the EU (aka into 2 year period of negotiating new free trade agreement between GB and EU). This is similar to President Obama negotiating the Iran deal, but it was never passed as a treaty in Congress. Leaving it open for President Trump to cancel it, which he couldn't do with a treaty.
Presumably if there is a general election, and Tories/Brexit win, then the civil agreement that may happen this week will be converted into treaty form later. The Brexit party doesn't like that, and may oppose the Tories in the general election. That could leave the UK with a different "hung parliament", unable to convert the civil agreement into a treaty (and hence the civil agreement has a proviso for a revised no-deal exit by July of next year).
If you have a country at odds with itself, and the division is 50/50 then there can be no proper governance. Ultimately, since elections do still occur, it is the British people at fault ... same as Italy etc.
Addenda ... LibDem and SNP are Remain. Labor and DUP (defectors) are now New Referendum. Basically Tories lost their DUP partner over this issue (and why the modified NI border was dropped by PM May 18 months ago, in favor of the hated Backstop). In coalition politics, the tail wags the dog. DUP being the tail. NI is Remain anyway (as is Scotland), so having their party partnered with Tories was always a contradiction.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on October 20, 2019, 05:53:45 AM
Request for extension filed, without passion.
Vote postponed.
Come Tuesday, what will happen in the next week?
Cliffhanger
They've made their bed, I suspect they'll have to lie in it.
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 20, 2019, 05:27:36 PM
They've made their bed, I suspect they'll have to lie in it.
No, that's trump--he lies in bed, out of bed, awake, asleep, in the shower, out of the shower, dressed, not dressed, why this guy can lie anywhere and everywhere. He can tell the truth by accident at times--but he doesn't care, for whatever comes out of his mouth this instant is the truth.
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 20, 2019, 05:27:36 PM
They've made their bed, I suspect they'll have to lie in it.
It's not just them.
We're affected too.
Postponement => longer trouble leading to wobbly economy.
No deal => immeadete shitheap
Deal => discomfortable but ultimately acceptable losses
Talking from the Belgian/Antwerp perspective, of course.
The deal on the table seems worse for the UK.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on October 20, 2019, 07:23:28 PM
It's not just them.
We're affected too.
Postponement => longer trouble leading to wobbly economy.
No deal => immeadete shitheap
Deal => discomfortable but ultimately acceptable losses
Talking from the Belgian/Antwerp perspective, of course.
The deal on the table seems worse for the UK.
For EU fans, Remain is utopia ... onward to W European Progressivism, death to the US, death to Russia, death to China. Free lunch for everyone based on pillaging N America and Eurasia. Provided y'all obey Germany ;-) Somebody has to be the backbone for the New Empire. China is pillaging Africa now, so I guess the Middle Class hooligans can't expect to benefit. Only Chicoms are the Han master race anyway. European hegemony is 120 years past expire date. Won't happen again. Merkel delusion is done.
Really, Belgium was in chaos, a few years ago, when Belgium had no stable government. It isn't just ... will people outside the UK, be negatively effected. Not to mention the tariffs Trump is dumping on the EU. It is certain that y'all will be hurt (no British money). Won't be possible to deposit the whole population of E Europe or Africa or ME into GB. They will all have to move to Sweden (the judas goat). The alternative is Royal Airforce Lancasters droping bombs on you again ;-(
"The quote attributed to German Otto von Bismarck that 'laws are like sausages. It's better not to see them being made' is extremely accurate." ... this is particularly true if you rely on custom and common law, rather than statute law, as GB does, with its "unwritten" constitution ;-(
Quote from: Baruch on October 20, 2019, 09:47:10 PM
For EU fans, Remain is utopia ... onward to W European Progressivism, death to the US, death to Russia, death to China. Free lunch for everyone based on pillaging N America and Eurasia. Provided y'all obey Germany ;-) Somebody has to be the backbone for the New Empire. China is pillaging Africa now, so I guess the Middle Class hooligans can't expect to benefit. Only Chicoms are the Han master race anyway. European hegemony is 120 years past expire date. Won't happen again. Merkel delusion is done.
Really, Belgium was in chaos, a few years ago, when Belgium had no stable government. It isn't just ... will people outside the UK, be negatively effected. Not to mention the tariffs Trump is dumping on the EU. It is certain that y'all will be hurt (no British money). Won't be possible to deposit the whole population of E Europe or Africa or ME into GB. They will all have to move to Sweden (the judas goat). The alternative is Royal Airforce Lancasters droping bombs on you again ;-(
I'm less worried about 'not getting the British money' than I am about the utter destruction of (swift) trade between neighbouring ports (and by extension whole countries).
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on October 21, 2019, 04:12:13 PM
I'm less worried about 'not getting the British money' than I am about the utter destruction of (swift) trade between neighbouring ports (and by extension whole countries).
Harbor masters in Calais and Dover say ... nothing to worry about. But they are all secret agents of Putin, right?
As I understand it, there will be no immediate change in trade Nov 1 at all. Only a few electronic changes that commercial/government units can easily handle (and that grandmothers can't comprehend). No individual persons crossing either way will be effected who have legitimate reasons to travel. Except no more Schengen BS.
There will be revised free trade arrangements, between GB and EU, over the next 2 years. Those arrangements are subject to change over time anyway, because EU is a moving object, not static. Are you expecting GB to embargo EU goods in either direction? That would be an act of war. Is there an undeclared war (see US vs Japan in 1941) between EU and GB?
Quote from: Baruch on October 21, 2019, 06:25:29 PM
Harbor masters in Calais and Dover say ... nothing to worry about. But they are all secret agents of Putin, right?
As I understand it, there will be no immediate change in trade Nov 1 at all. Only a few electronic changes that commercial/government units can easily handle (and that grandmothers can't comprehend). No individual persons crossing either way will be effected who have legitimate reasons to travel. Except no more Schengen BS.
There will be revised free trade arrangements, between GB and EU, over the next 2 years. Those arrangements are subject to change over time anyway, because EU is a moving object, not static. Are you expecting GB to embargo EU goods in either direction? That would be an act of war. Is there an undeclared war (see US vs Japan in 1941) between EU and GB?
That's not the case in case of no-deal. If Boris get ls it through Parliament, I'm not worried. Prices will still go up, but antwer has a major storage capacity so on our end checks will be less of a bother.
In case of no-deal, however, many companies in the Harbour simply aren't allowed to trade with the UK. And even if the application process is sped up in case of no-deal, it's stil going to inflate prices.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on October 22, 2019, 01:14:05 AM
That's not the case in case of no-deal. If Boris get ls it through Parliament, I'm not worried. Prices will still go up, but antwer has a major storage capacity so on our end checks will be less of a bother.
In case of no-deal, however, many companies in the Harbour simply aren't allowed to trade with the UK. And even if the application process is sped up in case of no-deal, it's stil going to inflate prices.
A zero-impact political action ... is mythical. Either it increases prices, or decreases them. Usually with any government action, prices increase (except for tariff reductions). Prices decrease only if there is a productivity increase in the private sector, and the private sector in competitive mode chooses to pass the savings along to the consumers. Unless there is compensating political action to increase paperwork/regulation ;-) Per entropy, generally prices increase ... it is the cost of being alive. Purchases drive prices upward. The alternative is recession.
So the "meaningful vote" will definitely not happen. They are grinding thru the "civil agreement" today thru whenever. And that civil agreement will have the force of law (but not of treaty). Meanwhile Parliament is reviewing what a Speaker will or will not be allowed to do in the future, after Bercow violated a number of "traditions" aka more of the GB constitution will get written down. Currently the committee is arguing over whether or not the changes should be written or considered revised "tradition".
In the American view, the attempt by the Republic of Ireland to grab Northern Ireland is an act of war. And the attempt by the Scottish and Welsh Parliaments (which somehow don't represent their publics ... SNP has very little support in Scotland, Plaid Cymru has little support in Wales) ... are acting like rebels. In our "tradition" both would be dealt with violently ;-( and with collusion by EU with domestic anti-Brexit parties and with separatist movements, would mean war between GB and the EU.
So to an American mind, rising prices are the least of your problems ;-((
Schedule ... civil agreement to be narrowly approved by Commons late Thursday. Same approved by Lords late Friday. Thus 4 business days next week open, with Brexit Withdrawl (not Brexit Free Trade) done by Nov 1 aka Friday of next week. Parliament threatens to kill the civil agreement with amendments (for example, demeaning new referendum or extending tentative delay past Jan 31 2020 to May 5 2022 etc) ... and Johnson threatens to withdraw the civil agreement if necessary to effectively prevent that. Technically, the deal is a treaty, and thus can't be micromanaged by Parliament (because EU input required). In which case .. no-deal Brexit at either EU or GB initiative next week. Right now EU is in a holding pattern, waiting to see if their collusion with anti-Brexit bears fruit. Macron says no more delay, Merkel says more delay.
First time any Brexit deal vote got past first hurdle, since initial rejection of the PM May deal on 15 Jan 2019! Not a done deal mind you, Parliament loves to slice the salami infinitely thin! But a PM Johnson accomplishment, that PM May couldn't do. So the civil legislation is paused, and Parliament moves on to eviscerating the Queen Speech bill. And the EU gets to decide between Macron and Merkel. And if Merkel, how much further delay will be offered. Meanwhile the clock goes tick, tick, tick. Unless the civil legislation fully get thru by EOD 31 Oct 2019 ... current law says ... no-deal Brexit (in the event that EU says no delay, or Parliament rejects the delay offer (say if EU only offered one day delay)).
Why do they want to alter the timetable? Spite?
I mean, it's pretty much May's deal. Just worse for the UK in a Few ways. They should pretty much know it by now.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on October 23, 2019, 11:32:36 AM
Why do they want to alter the timetable? Spite?
I mean, it's pretty much May's deal. Just worse for the UK in a Few ways. They should pretty much know it by now.
All of your European political parties are based on ideology. With ideology, the facts don't matter. We are seeing that more and more here with the Democrats ... they have nothing organic to propose, so they pull ideas (Green Deal) out of their asses which is to say out of European political party manifestos. Not spite ... MPs are thick as thieves, like lawyers after the trial.
Ha ... little bird says, Franco/German emergency. They can't get a decision on King Bercow's delay, for a few more days (maybe Friday?). There is a little shortage of sausages and brie they have to deal with first.
Quote from: Baruch on October 23, 2019, 11:57:58 AM
All of your European political parties are based on ideology. With ideology, the facts don't matter. We are seeing that more and more here with the Democrats ... they have nothing organic to propose, so they pull ideas (Green Deal) out of their asses which is to say out of European political party manifestos. Not spite ... MPs are thick as thieves, like lawyers after the trial.
Ha ... little bird says, Franco/German emergency. They can't get a decision on King Bercow's delay, for a few more days (maybe Friday?). There is a little shortage of sausages and brie they have to deal with first.
Brie and sausage are serious business.
As long as we don't cause a potato famine, I'm fine though
How long after Brexit will Putin initiate another exit of a European nation from the Union? Which nation is next? I suspect Putin wants the European Union and NATO to fall apart, so he can have free reign to form a new Soviet Union. Then perhaps he'll ally with China, with whom Russia has a very long common border, to take whatever is left of the European nations. And America, which is being destroyed from within by Putin's minions in America's political arena.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on October 23, 2019, 12:24:13 PM
Brie and sausage are serious business.
As long as we don't cause a potato famine, I'm fine though
The potato famine was an act of nature. But it was made worse by the British Corn Laws aka guided-economy. Solidarity with the Republic Irish, that the EU referendum screwed? Being part Irish, that trick, deserves a nuclear mushroom over Berlin and Paris. Too bad WW II didn't fully exterminate Europe?? Or should the US have joined with the Soviet Union in the Warsaw Pact to oppose the cuck W Europeans?
Quote from: Unbeliever on October 23, 2019, 01:21:01 PM
How long after Brexit will Putin initiate another exit of a European nation from the Union? Which nation is next? I suspect Putin wants the European Union and NATO to fall apart, so he can have free reign to form a new Soviet Union. Then perhaps he'll ally with China, with whom Russia has a very long common border, to take whatever is left of the European nations. And America, which is being destroyed from within by Putin's minions in America's political arena.
I would vote for Putin if on the ballot. He is an alpha male who hates gays. I don't hate gays, but I would sell tickets to that show-and-tell (the Jewish thing) ;-) Really, just a much bigger and diverse version of Rue Paul's show ... think of the advertising opportunities.
He is allied with China now, Jesus-farts. Russia is China's Russian wolf hound. Democrats are tools of China (California depends on it).
All nations are destroyed from within by the Left. Last time I checked that was the slave-welfare-loving Democrats. Log-Cabin Republicans show that being gay isn't Left or Right. Your voting pen isn't determined by how your relate to another person's gonads.
We need a "acts like Jesus" show to match up with all the Elvis impersonators. Would you compete?
I will give credit where credit is due: I genuinely did not think BoJo could get a new agreement of any sort before the deadline, although the way he's handled matters, it's pretty clear he doesn't give a shit whether they exit with a deal or not. I'm not entirely convinced he even actually gives a shit about Brexit at all, except as a means to getting the keys to No 10.
I mean, if he actually cared about both his plan and an orderly Brexit, he'd give a decent chance for MPs to actually read the bill that implements the exit so that they could hold a vote on it. There's nothing magical about 31 October; if he'd belt up and let things take their course, they could be out by 11/11 no doubt. He already got a majority for his deal, which is a lot more than May could manage; he should be willing to dot the i's and cross the t's.
Instead he's determined to cross the i's.
Not just 10/31 deadline ... but avoiding further amendments that want to make the current deal, a poison pill. Parliament now has to wait on Brussels again. It was Brussels that chose 10/31, not Martians or Tories. And if Brussels doesn't change that date, it is still possible for Parliament opposition to force a no-deal Brexit. The Letwin law is now being questioned as illegitimate. Eight more days of shadow boxing to go.
Quote from: Baruch on October 23, 2019, 04:32:21 PM
The potato famine was an act of nature. But it was made worse by the British Corn Laws aka guided-economy. Solidarity with the Republic Irish, that the EU referendum screwed? Being part Irish, that trick, deserves a nuclear mushroom over Berlin and Paris. Too bad WW II didn't fully exterminate Europe?? Or should the US have joined with the Soviet Union in the Warsaw Pact to oppose the cuck W Europeans?
You'd have a lot less to bitch about for sure, not sure what you'd do with all that free time.
It is like a sport. Choose a favorite team, hate the opposing team. Ignore all self-goals by the favorite team. Condemn all Ref decisions against your team (aka EU). So what is wrong with that? GB is just a bunch of football hooligans anyway.
On the other hand, the Remainers have made a lot of goals with marginal field positions. Can we praise "good plays" even by the opposing team? I am starting to even empathize with Corbyn. My mother never allowed praising the opponent (Denver Broncos vs opponents).
I am more or less ignoring American politics. Like a bad episode of the Sopranos. If the EU/GB gobshites kick the Brexit can into 2020 ... I might turn the channel on them too. Starting to warm to Australian politics.
So where are we? The partly accepted civil agreement is in limbo.
1. EU says GB can have an extension past 10/31, but won’t say “how long†(that unexpected result helps the Opposition).
2. Government says they won’t re-table the civil agreement unless EU says “how longâ€, but has proposed a Dec 12 GE to the Opposition.
3. Opposition won’t agree to re-table unless Government prohibits any “no-deal†or Government has an EU extension date.
4. Government says they won’t prohibit “no-dealâ€. And they cannot create an EU extension date without the EU.
EU and Government disagree. Government and Opposition disagree. EU and Opposition secretly agree to stop Brexit (treason). The EU only accepts a GB government that is 100% in alignment with the EU (namely no Brexit at all).
EU civil agreement with the Government was a false hope. The same civil agreement between the Government and Opposition was a false hope.
The EU is opposed to any internal or external opposition to the dictat of its un-elected leadership.
The Opposition is opposed to anything the Tory Government proposes. It wants to be the Government and EU agrees with that.
Any early election will result in the defeat of the Opposition and its EU backers, so it must be put off indefinitely using any excuse.
Meanwhile the clock is still clicking to 10/31. the Government POV is EU gives a new deadline, or Opposition agrees to an election. Otherwise the civil agreement will not be re-tabled the Government. So a three way Mexican standoff, where two parties are in secret agreement against the other party. If you are in the EU, then any national government is the bitch of the un-elected EU leadership, which is why there is Brexit in the first place. Seig Heil!
If EU says no to Brexit ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWhFZJmm0_Q
Basically the UK is too weak to defend against a united EU, after 12 months of fighting.
Looks like ... the GB/EU/Brexit Reality Show has been renewed for more episodes. Thru Jan 31, 2020. A few more trivial legislation to do in GB and EU to make this official, over the next 3 days. Dotted "i"s and Spotted Dicks. Now the political parties can continue their sausage making.
The extension is a flex-tension. If Parliament passes the existing revised treaty before Jan 31, 2020 ... then the EU-free-trade negotiations start at that point. Any attempt by Johnson or the Opposition, to amend the existing reside treaty, puts everything back up in the air and Jan 31, 2020 becomes the new hard-brexit date. The existing revised treaty itself has a hard-brexit date on its portion, sometime out in July 2020.
"Boris Johnson Gets His Early Election by Abandoning Actual Brexit" ... Boris is a BRINO, has compromised with Labor to exclude no-deal Brexit being triggered (once final approval of the current "deal" is done, after the GE, then it is moot (aside from the no-deal Brexit trigger next July, on the free-trade with EU negotiations)). Boris is Corbyn's butt-budy. Who knew?
By end of tomorrow, final agreement on the GE on 12/12 ... should be final in House of Lords. So technically in limbo for a few more days.
More notably, attempts to amend election rules, to allow EU citizens (former Brits living X years outside of GB) to vote in the GE, or to allow 16-17 year olds to vote in the GE, were defeated.
Then we enter the pre-election period Nov1 - Dec 12. Basically the British reality TV shit-show has entered a new season. I plan on changing the channel Jan 1 ... because this show has degraded itself compared to the new-exciting first season Jan 1 2019 thru Jun 1 2019. Second season was basically good cop/bad cop.
PS ... Grieve et al are trying to get the EU to overturn the vote of Parliament, regarding votes for EU citizens who are former GB citizens (and were not included in the original Brexit vote in 2016).
Quote from: Baruch on October 28, 2019, 01:18:57 PM
Looks like ... the GB/EU/Brexit Reality Show has been renewed for more episodes. Thru Jan 31, 2020. A few more trivial legislation to do in GB and EU to make this official, over the next 3 days. Dotted "i"s and Spotted Dicks. Now the political parties can continue their sausage making.
The extension is a flex-tension. If Parliament passes the existing revised treaty before Jan 31, 2020 ... then the EU-free-trade negotiations start at that point. Any attempt by Johnson or the Opposition, to amend the existing reside treaty, puts everything back up in the air and Jan 31, 2020 becomes the new hard-brexit date. The existing revised treaty itself has a hard-brexit date on its portion, sometime out in July 2020.
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/w0JTKKdwvTzRC/source.gif)
Good thing Parliament has intermissions, or I wouldn't be able to go for more popcorn and soda ;-)
MP Corbyn did show some sense eventually, hence the about face on early GE. He is a Unionist (no devolution for Scotland any time soon) and a Euro-skeptic (though for different reasons than the Tories). He wants things more Left than the EU, and can't attempt that while in the EU. He was ultimately unwilling to make a deal with SNP. And LibDem doesn't want him as PM.
Existing law allows Scotland to have another devolution referendum some day, but only if the popular will is pushing for it, not as a election coalition deal. Don't know his opinion on N Ireland or Wales. He was a supporter of the IRA in the past. The IRA has proposed resuming warfare if there is any Brexit that impacts N Ireland in any fashion (as the Boris Deal does).
So things should be relatively quiet for 6 weeks ;-)
House of Lords approved the election arrangement. The civil agreement on Brexit ala Boris will be finalized between 12/12 and 1/31. Brexit party is weakening ... as Boris planned, once he managed a revised BRINO and a GE. Corbyn will be running on new Brexit referendum (not Scottish one). Boris will run on his BRINO. If Corbyn was elected, he will have his own BRINO, then have a new Brexit referendum, where he will run for Remain, not his own BRINO. Bercow retired, instead of going Zombie as he threatened ;-(
The Brexit Party is fading, probably not managing crossing the "first to post" system to get even one MP (15% is practically required to earn your first MP). The Brexit Party can't run in coordination with the Tories. So the Tories may get the most MPs, but not an outright majority (repeat of 2017). This makes it marginally possible for Corbyn to form a coalition government. Labor is much less likely to gain total MPs. It is possible but unlikely that Boris will try to improve his Brexit, or go for a no-deal Brexit on 1/31 ... if he wins an outright majority in Parliament.
If Boris has to form his own minority government, he has a problem, since the DUP has been burned. Who can he ally with?
Once the civil agreement is done, then the New Free Trade with EU negotiation starts. That as a new no-deal limit 12/31/20 ... not July.
PS - 10 of 21 exiled Tory MPs were readmitted.
"Corbyn Plots A Marxist Revolution - Could He Win The Election By Accident?" ... so if Brexit pros are split, if Boris doesn't get an outright majority, and doesn't have a minority government partner ... then the conflict over who gets to try to form a coalition government falls on Corbyn (head of Labor and Opposition), though Jo Swinson (head of Lib Dem) would dispute that. Corbyn has to accept some Brexit that allows freedom to re-nationalize most of the UK economy, which isn't currently allowed in EU rules. If a Labor-coalition government, after a re-do of the referendum, ends up supporting Remain, then Corbyn can't this.
If Corbyn is hoping to get a significant amount of votes, he's going to have to campaign hard.
His wishy-washy stance the last few months will be a major obstacle for the labour party, I think.
Leavers, on the other hand, will flock mostly to BoJo and the brexit-party who will be able to work together fluently, at least on this matter.
Remain voters will be more dispersed, I think, amongst the remaining parties.
Divide and conquer.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 01, 2019, 04:28:07 AM
If Corbyn is hoping to get a significant amount of votes, he's going to have to campaign hard.
His wishy-washy stance the last few months will be a major obstacle for the labour party, I think.
Leavers, on the other hand, will flock mostly to BoJo and the brexit-party who will be able to work together fluently, at least on this matter.
Remain voters will be more dispersed, I think, amongst the remaining parties.
Divide and conquer.
Perhaps. Corbyn et al fought a good fight .. drunks with knives in the pub. I have to expect the final concession was something passed under the table (Labor agreement to early election). Corbyn could have held Tories hostage another 2 years.
Brexit will not happen. I have no particular knowledge about what it is or why it won't happen. It just seems like Brexit is a way for the Great Britain to fuck around.
Quote from: SGOS on November 02, 2019, 03:55:44 AM
Brexit will not happen. I have no particular knowledge about what it is or why it won't happen. It just seems like Brexit is a way for the Great Britain to fuck around.
Maybe it's all well planned keyfabe. In order to sell brexit merchandise.
Like Boris and Theresa action figures.
Quote from: SGOS on November 02, 2019, 07:43:17 AM
Like Boris and Theresa action figures.
Or a bercow plus hie, push his tummy and he says one of five sentences 'ordah', 'ordaaaaahhhhh', 'I don' t give a flying flamingo', 'my right and honorable friend' and 'order!'
Quote from: SGOS on November 02, 2019, 03:55:44 AM
Brexit will not happen. I have no particular knowledge about what it is or why it won't happen. It just seems like Brexit is a way for the Great Britain to fuck around.
Correct, The current agreement is BRINO. Remain isn't Brexit either. A no-deal Brexit is highly unlikely. It is a necessary empty threat to keep the Remainers and BRINOs in-line.
In election position, Tories reject no-deal as future tactic, and reject pact with Brexit Party. Mr Farage decides not to run for an MP seat, since he sees himself as divisive, and he doesn't want, best case, to be PM. Basically the Tories have shown themselves like Labor .. they are party first, country second.
PS ... MP Dominic Grieve ... who was canned by the Tories, but is still a officer of the government, now wants to claim that PM Boris Johnson is a tool of Putin, because all Leave supporters of any type, are Russian agents.
On to the 12/12 election. All parties are back to status quo pre 2016 politics. All the Brexit stuff was just posturing. The Tories are being $&463 Tories, the Laborites are being ^*%&$& Laborites. OF no interest to me, these traditional tribalisms and classisms.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 02, 2019, 10:29:05 AM
Or a bercow plus hie, push his tummy and he says one of five sentences 'ordah', 'ordaaaaahhhhh', 'I don' t give a flying flamingo', 'my right and honorable friend' and 'order!'
You know, I might be willing to buy one of those. :D
I'd love it if the thing said "ordure!"
https://youtu.be/s7LzNwip9BA
Yeah. A Laborite, disguised as a Tory. An advocate not a neutral (as his office requires). A person with peccadillos like Boris. The new Speaker seems a return to tradition (aka what is English common law, but tied to that unwritten constitution of theirs).
If I were British, I wouldn't know how to vote (what was best for Britain). As an American, I can't say I have any love for the European Coal and Steel Cartel aka EU. Don't have any love for French or German politics. Generally I find British politics, aside from Brexit, to be inane.
Brexit itself in any form is iffy. I wouldn't trust politicians on either side of the Channel not to screw me.
Quote from: Baruch on November 08, 2019, 10:42:00 AM
Yeah. A Laborite, disguised as a Tory. An advocate not a neutral (as his office requires). A person with peccadillos like Boris. The new Speaker seems a return to tradition (aka what is English common law, but tied to that unwritten constitution of theirs).
If I were British, I wouldn't know how to vote (what was best for Britain). As an American, I can't say I have any love for the European Coal and Steel Cartel aka EU. Don't have any love for French or German politics. Generally I find British politics, aside from Brexit, to be inane.
Brexit itself in any form is iffy. I wouldn't trust politicians on either side of the Channel not to screw me.
I wouldn't quite count him Labour, though it is quite clear Bercow has drifted more to the left over the years.
But you know, hate his style during his decade reign as the speaker, or love it; I don't think he truly tended to misuse his position in an unfair and unbalanced way. Nobody has no mind of his own. He can't be neutral as an individual. He just needed to be it as the speaker. And from my point of view, especially in such trying times, he did his best to maintain that neutrality. And by and large, succeeded.
Like he said, his responsibility was not to the government, but to the House of Commons as a body and as an institution. I'll definitely miss him; it should be fun when he's elevated to the peerage and takes his seat alongside Betty Boothroyd in Lords...
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 08, 2019, 07:21:48 PM
I wouldn't quite count him Labour, though it is quite clear Bercow has drifted more to the left over the years.
But you know, hate his style during his decade reign as the speaker, or love it; I don't think he truly tended to misuse his position in an unfair and unbalanced way. Nobody has no mind of his own. He can't be neutral as an individual. He just needed to be it as the speaker. And from my point of view, especially in such trying times, he did his best to maintain that neutrality. And by and large, succeeded.
He was an ideological EU Remainer, like so many other MPs. And couldn't help himself to prevent a total victory of Nazism (Leavers). Neutrality was less important than the complete ideological certainty of being more right than 17 million voters. Basically politics is one totalitarianism against another (Hitler vs Stalin). There are no real democracies, just fake elections.
Don't you believe, as almost all of humanity, that the "end justifies the means"? The people shouldn't be allowed to vote, because they might vote wrong. Doesn't matter to me if one is Left or Right. Either way, the failure to reject the inner "dictator" is the death of humanity. So many say, they would prefer a "benevolent" dictator. A liberal dictatorship.
Quote from: Baruch on November 09, 2019, 02:32:01 AM
He was an ideological EU Remainer, like so many other MPs. And couldn't help himself to prevent a total victory of Nazism (Leavers). Neutrality was less important than the complete ideological certainty of being more right than 17 million voters. Basically politics is one totalitarianism against another (Hitler vs Stalin). There are no real democracies, just fake elections.
Don't you believe, as almost all of humanity, that the "end justifies the means"? The people shouldn't be allowed to vote, because they might vote wrong. Doesn't matter to me if one is Left or Right. Either way, the failure to reject the inner "dictator" is the death of humanity. So many say, they would prefer a "benevolent" dictator. A liberal dictatorship.
I need to check, because of the way you tend to communicate, but do you mean to imply Brexit couldn't leave because of Bercow?
Rather than the fact that there was no parliamentary majority for a multidimensional question that had basically been reduced to a 'upvote' or 'downvote' post on reddit? Rather than that leave was divided within between hard brexit, soft brexit, ... Rather than whatever the fuck the tories were doing for three years before this saga hit what we thought were going to be the final moments of brexit and try to ram the same bill through time and time again hoping for a different result, like a madman? (Did I ever tell you the definition of insanity?) Rather than the opposition doing what they do, namely oppose, and being almost half of parliament, and after some sacking by the current PM: the majority?
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on November 09, 2019, 03:07:10 AM
I need to check, because of the way you tend to communicate, but do you mean to imply Brexit couldn't leave because of Bercow?
Rather than the fact that there was no parliamentary majority for a multidimensional question that had basically been reduced to a 'upvote' or 'downvote' post on reddit? Rather than that leave was divided within between hard brexit, soft brexit, ... Rather than whatever the fuck the tories were doing for three years before this saga hit what we thought were going to be the final moments of brexit and try to ram the same bill through time and time again hoping for a different result, like a madman? (Did I ever tell you the definition of insanity?) Rather than the opposition doing what they do, namely oppose, and being almost half of parliament, and after some sacking by the current PM: the majority?
PS ... Bercow also just said, Corbyn isn't anti-Semitic. The Hell! Corbyn supports Hamas. So Bercow must also support the Caliphate conquest of Europe, same as Corbyn. And that is anti-Semitic (as in anti-Jewish). Many Arabs are Semites. So in a way, they are also being pro-Semitic, if you forget about all the Muslims (say Pakistanis) who aren't Arabs.
So in a partisan way, Bercow is a horrible little man. A regular troll under a bridge eating Jewish children (sarc).
No. It is clear that all MPs, including Boris' bunch, are Remainers. Some just are more in the closet than others. That is to say, it isn't a Right/Left issue. It is an Establishment vs People issue. But don't assume I am pro-democracy. If I were British, and a Leave means leave ... then I would be furious. I am neither. The original referendum was a Tory mistake, as was the Scottish referendum. But not because I am pro-Union or pro-EU. As I recently discussed with my daughter, in a totally non-ideological way ... the politicians are idiots. And their idiocy can get millions killed.
Sham upon sham, including the particulars of this new GE. But this is playing with fire.
General election in the nick of time ... democracy is failing in UK otherwise.
New pole ... 50% of Brits favor an authoritarian government. 42% favor a military coup.
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury.†-Alexander Fraser Tyler
In a democracy, the corruption of the politicians is a direct reflection of the corruption of the people. GB is toast.
EU wanting Article 11 and Article 13 will turn European Internet into a Belgian bureaucracy shit show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnbMukFicaw
Corbyn's plan to re-nationalize British Telecom (after Brexit) will turn British Internet into Pravda. One channel with one message makes us strong!
Europeans who post here or read here who support the EU are dystopian.
Brits who post here or read here who support Labor are commies.
Public only owned Internet is a redo of French Minitel. Corbyn is such a lover of failed French services.
If we understand the mechanism and motives of the group mind, it is now possible to regiment and control the masses according to our will without them knowing it. - Edward Bernays (nephew of Freud, progenitor of Goebbles).
Nothing you think you believe, since the 1920s, is true. It is COINTELPRO.
Judging by the performances on the Boris and Jeremy show, I think Jo Swinson won that debate... it'll be interesting to see the post-debate polls.
https://youtu.be/SP53k64VZRo
Russian opinion of Brexit ;-)
9 more days to GB election! So exciting to see another country make a fool of itself. Only Labour in GB, is more communist than the current German government.
"CRAZY TOTALITARIAN MERKEL RANTS ABOUT THE NEED TO BAN FREEDOM" ... this is why Brits want to Leave. The Germans never change, particularly an E German Stazi woman. The EU is a sock puppet for Imperial Germany and Vichy France. Mostly Germany runs things, and they have an old Stazi hag as their chief. So ... there is Article 11 and 13 ... coming on-line. And Merkel finds social media to be politically subversive. So basically she wants Germany (and EU) to have an Internet like China. And electronic version of the Berlin Wall.
Yes, everything will be forbidden, except for what is mandatory! Beatings will continue until morale improves! What Statists always love. So no blogs or vlogs or podcasts except what is prior authorized by the Party. All postings to be mined daily for signs of popular subversion. Not like BitChute where Nazi trolls are a pennig a dozen. Germany in particular can't allow any Nazi content (by law). And the EU means extending German laws across the whole EU. But you can post Muslim terrorist content there. Mustn't offend the guest workers.
Quote from: Baruch on December 03, 2019, 08:51:50 AM
9 more days to GB election! So exciting to see another country make a fool of itself. Only Labour in GB, is more communist than the current German government.
"CRAZY TOTALITARIAN MERKEL RANTS ABOUT THE NEED TO BAN FREEDOM" ... this is why Brits want to Leave. The Germans never change, particularly an E German Stazi woman. The EU is a sock puppet for Imperial Germany and Vichy France. Mostly Germany runs things, and they have an old Stazi hag as their chief. So ... there is Article 11 and 13 ... coming on-line. And Merkel finds social media to be politically subversive. So basically she wants Germany (and EU) to have an Internet like China. And electronic version of the Berlin Wall.
Yes, everything will be forbidden, except for what is mandatory! Beatings will continue until morale improves! What Statists always love. So no blogs or vlogs or podcasts except what is prior authorized by the Party. All postings to be mined daily for signs of popular subversion. Not like BitChute where Nazi trolls are a pennig a dozen. Germany in particular can't allow any Nazi content (by law). And the EU means extending German laws across the whole EU. But you can post Muslim terrorist content there. Mustn't offend the guest workers.
What's your best guess how the next election will come out, and how that's going to affect the brexit issue playing forward?
Quote from: EmpJohnIV on December 04, 2019, 02:28:00 PM
What's your best guess how the next election will come out, and how that's going to affect the brexit issue playing forward?
Hahaha ... Clownworld? Let me watch some clips from the recent Joker movie, to get into the mood, and wave my Kekistan flag ...
I have loved watching British political news this past calendar year. Watch it daily and in detail. Kind of like watching macaque monkeys establishing a hierarchy in the zoo ;-) I love those classic British nature shows. As an American I can watch it, like a regular sports game. I have no skin in it. American politics is too painful to watch.
The goal of all 1st world major elections is to make the result as close as possible, that makes it easier to "queer" them (the Deep State has controlled the Five Eyes since 1942). The 2016 Trump vs Clinton, 2016 Scottish secession, 2016 Brexit, 2017 GB general election (Labour came from behind at the last minute, so Tories didn't get the majority expected, they were castrated with Trojan DUP support, from the beginning (the Irish Border problem).
The Labour leadership will be close enough to winning, that they won't purge Corbyn or the other Hard Left. Basically was already happened in the US. Corbyn and Hillary are too useful as boogiemen to the Deep State (joined at the hip between GB and US since WW II). I can already predict a hung Dem Convention, that will call on Hillary to run again ;-))
DUP has dumped their alliance over the Johnson deal. A government under PM May, was more like an Italian government, constantly facing disintegration within the Tories, with DUP as the Trojan Horse, and Labour/LibDem/SNP with Speaker Bercow, acting as disloyal opposition. The Brexit Party and the LibDems have lost most of their Summer luster, as voters return to the tried and true 2-party car crash system.
Like the US, but the US is even more un-supporting of 3rd parties. In both cases, the electoral system supports 2-parties only, you have to change the electoral system in both cases (to proportional representation basically) to make any 3rd party viable. But that pushes you toward an Italian style coalition-of-factions government. Pay me now or pay me later but pay the public will.
We don't know PM Johnson's popularity yet. Pre-election polls are propaganda (2016 election polls showing Hillary winning). And the British MP system operates very differently from the US House system. My guess is ... PM Johnson will come very close to losing to the Remain un-coalition. But will squeak by with a negligible majority. He will keep his job, but no mandate.
This minimizes his negotiation powers over the next phase of Brexit (first part was the leaving part, the second part is the trade negotiation part). This is basically PM May's deal with some significant improvements. But the improvements can still be skuppered by a resisting Parliament. As in any governing party, you can't stay in power, or obtain power, without promising everything to everybody. This makes delivery comical.
All political parties are sock puppets to the Deep State/Deep Globalist coalition. Originally Rothschilds in GB/France/Germany and Pinkertons in the US. Nations are too big, too much money involved, to allow citizens to really have any true say except at the margins where it doesn't matter. Basically like pro-wrestling, but without the funny Lucha Libre masks.
Any actual Brexit political/economic impact will be minimized. It was too popular to directly overturn it and surprised the Tories. But as a minimal change, the fewest applecarts will be overturned. Of course events might fly out of control. The Masterminds sometimes fall on their face, like 1914-1945. WW I and WW II could both have been avoided, if the European stuffed shirts hadn't been consumed with hubris.
The whole point of the Scottish secession poll and the Brexit poll was as hushpuppies to the British voters, to take pressure off the PM Cameron government cause by Mr Farage. PM May was put in because PM Cameron quit (his hubris allowed Brexit to become possible) and she was a Trojan Remainer. So is PM Johnson, who came in as next choice after PM May, and is also a closet Remainer, but with more panache. He lost in the 2016 Tory leadership contest, because he is considered too much of a loose cannon.
There will be a huge fight over carrying out the initial part of the PM Johnson agreement, but after lines in the sand are drawn (for the benefit of near sighted voters), the real fight over a castrated trade deal will commence. Basically what happened 2016-2019 Mark 2.0.
On Labour or Democrats ...
"A Marxist system is recognized by the fact that it spares criminals and criminalizes political opponents." -Solzhenitsyn
Quote from: EmpJohnIV on December 04, 2019, 02:28:00 PM
What's your best guess how the next election will come out, and how that's going to affect the brexit issue playing forward?
Right now it looks like BoJo will get a majority of one sort or another, which I think is awful, but at least the UK is voting on the basis of an actual negotiated and existing deal rather than the unicorn farts and pixie shit Leave sold them in '16. If they want to geld themselves on the international stage, at least now they know for sure what they're getting into.
Yep, the manly thing is to be corn holed by Brussels, who is a mere sock puppet for E Germany.
A last minute and accurate analysis of the upcoming election ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc1Q22__8yU
Politics can be entertaining, but only if you don't take it seriously.
GB is the leader ahead of China's monkey men, with their patented sheeple. Combining sheep and human DNA, before the Chinese could even manage to do high tech bestiality with pigs and monkeys.
Prince Charming strikes again! A fair majority in Parliament for Boris.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj-YK3JJCIU
I like women, so sorry about Jo Swinson, who was more disliked than even Corbyn, lost her seat and party leadership.
Current speculation is that Labour needs to achieve an even more pure communist doctrine. Corbyn will be re-reading the collected works of Lenin, shortly ;-) Scotland continues its gerrymandered over-representation in Scotland.
So good job, GB! For a bollocks country since 1945, you did something Right for a change.
Can Boris get the withdrawal agreement done by 1/31/20 without sabotage by re-elected Tory MPs? Then for most of us the Greek drama is over ... only commercial interests will care about details of the EU free-trade negotiations. Though another cliff hanger comes up in May, as to whether concluding that is reasonable by 12/31/20.
Aye, let's just hope this will settle, sooner rather than later.
GB, Australia and the US ... over Canada and NZ.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB5Nbp_gmgQ
"Left-Wing Newspaper Advises People "How To Leave The United Kingdom" After Election Loss" ... Boris can hope! Too bad not all Democrats moved to Canada in 2017. Zimbabwe would have been a better destination.
I figured Leave would come out of the election with an edge. I am still a little wary to figure out how the details of the power factions with play out in practice, but it looks like they won more than a small edge.
Quote from: EmpJohnIV on December 16, 2019, 12:44:52 PM
I figured Leave would come out of the election with an edge. I am still a little wary to figure out how the details of the power factions with play out in practice, but it looks like they won more than a small edge.
If it was pure total vote, no coalition allowed, then Hillary would be President and Johnson would still be PM. If you allow coalition, and pure total vote, then Corbyn would be the new PM. It is all in the mechanism. Geographical precincts and larger units in the US. Constituencies in GB. And all of that is gerrymandering on top of historical precedent. And what about Australia, with mandatory voting ... in both GB and the US, a large number of people don't vote.
But sour grapes by losers in any case, no matter what system one is using.
PM Johnson will face just as many court cases (Gina Miller etc) over the next year. Like Trump got over here. Brick batting from the Loyal Opposition. And back stabbing from the Tory Remainers. And he secured a dropping of "truth serum" pressure from the Brexit Party and the ERG. So he might try to do less, or do more, or do nothing at all. I like Johnson as a person, but he is a mere politician, and I am American, not British. The next two months are crucial (until Feb 1) to secure the existing withdrawal agreement. What if the EU renegs before then? They have no intention of letting go.
Quote from: EmpJohnIV on December 16, 2019, 12:44:52 PM
I figured Leave would come out of the election with an edge. I am still a little wary to figure out how the details of the power factions with play out in practice, but it looks like they won more than a small edge.
Yeah, it was the Leave faction within Labour that really turned it into a blowout -- I mean, Dennis Skinner for pete's sake! He'd been an MP since 1970, had never polled below 50%, his constituency has never sent a Conservative to Parliament,
and Skinner was a Leave supporter himself, and he
still got bounced.
On the flip side, BoJo is on eggshells, and his unusually conciliatory tone the day after the election suggests he knows it. These are constituencies that are not natural Tory bases, and once Brexit is done, they might well decide they have no further need for him and revert to Labour at the next opportunity.
In addition, for the first time, Unionists are a minority within the Northern Ireland delegation -- the DUP paid the price for propping up the May/Johnson governments, especially since Boris' new deal puts the customs border in the Irish Sea and is in the Unionists' eyes even worse than the backstop in May's deal. Practically, it makes no difference since the Conservatives no longer need Unionist backing to squeak through a majority and because Sinn Féin is abstentionist, but psychologically I expect it's quite a blow, and NI's desire to Remain may be the key that unlocks an Irish unification referendum.
And of course, the SNP had an even better night than Boris did, even knocking off the Lib Dem leader pretty much out of the blue. Sturgeon can make a good case for a second referendum based on such a strong result; I expect BoJo will say no, and it'll land in the UK Supreme Court's lap in what will be an even more fascinating case to watch than the one on prorogation.
Looks like Scotland doesn't want to leave the EU. Are they going to have to split from England?
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 16, 2019, 07:46:56 PM
Looks like Scotland doesn't want to leave the EU. Are they going to have to split from England?
That is the excuse. SNP is authoritarian, same as Labour and the other minor Left parties. The point is power. Maybe Nicola Sturgeon wants to be the new Queen Mary of Scots. A few years ago, they did dig the Scottish royal crown etc out of the walls of Edinburgh Castle. But won't change the reality that Scotland has been bankrupt since 1707. And since GB burned up all the N Sea oil, they have no means for prosperity, other than haggis and scotch.
But it is all irrational. GB in the EU, and Corbyn can't do anything toward his Stalinist objectives. Scotland in the EU, and Sturgeon can't do much or become Queen of Scotland. Of course some people make love of France or Germany etc as their reason for living. But such people shouldn't be citizens of GB.
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 16, 2019, 07:46:56 PM
Looks like Scotland doesn't want to leave the EU. Are they going to have to split from England?
If Nicola Sturgeon has her way, although polls are so close as to make it impossible to predict which way a vote would go. What's even more interesting is that there's a bare majority for reunification in Northern Ireland now (https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/1171694507215269888/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1171694711700119557). It's close enough that it's a statistical tie, of course, but still quite interesting.
Quote from: trdsf on December 17, 2019, 09:45:32 AM
If Nicola Sturgeon has her way, although polls are so close as to make it impossible to predict which way a vote would go. What's even more interesting is that there's a bare majority for reunification in Northern Ireland now (https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/1171694507215269888/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1171694711700119557). It's close enough that it's a statistical tie, of course, but still quite interesting.
Catholics always outbreed Presbyterians. Remember "A Modest Proposal" by Jonathan Swift? So over the years, the territory of N Ireland has become increasingly Catholic.
That's why the Catholic Church won't let their adherents make use of abortion, they are trying to breed a larger voting bloc, just like every other Abrahamic religion, including (especially) the LDS.
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 17, 2019, 01:54:55 PM
That's why the Catholic Church won't let their adherents make use of abortion, they are trying to breed a larger voting bloc, just like every other Abrahamic religion, including (especially) the LDS.
Most Protestants aren't breeders, I have been in several congregations. Jews aren't breeders, but Muslims are. Catholics and Mormons are. And "full quiver" Evangelicals are (but they are a minority). You realize that most American church goers today are seniors? So given biology, these seniors won't be having big families, unless they already made one in their youth ;-)
So hate on. Do you want to go kill anyone who as more than one or two children? Maybe take their excess children away for State only rearing? How Chinese that would be.
I am against irresponsible sex. I am against irresponsible parenting. But I am not intrinsically against large families, if done well. But in the Central Committee of the Dems, maybe they should propose something, to reduce the White population.
https://i.redd.it/dss3noxzl7j31.jpg
God-Emperor Johnson ;-)
It looks like a Hard Brexit will happen. It was fun watching the hub bub without being emotionally involved. I could never understand the concept of a soft Brexit, even though a couple of thoughtful Brits here tried to explain it to me. When you storm out of a country club telling everyone you don't want to be part of their crappy association, you don't expect to still get to use the pool.
I'm not saying the EU was crappy. Maybe it was. Maybe not. I remember when the thing first started. Seemed like all of Europe was raving about it, and I thought, " Good for them." However, I had no idea if it was a good or bad idea back then. Still don't.
impossible to tell what will happen next. They might not even complete the first agreement (withdrawal, not trade) before Jan 31! Politicians add randomness to all events.
Been watching this thread for a while now and 1 or 2 of you seem to get what brexshit is about, and others think they know whats going on but dont.
It's all about, and always has been about money, the rich/elite doing whatever it takes to protect their wealth, and basically giving a massive ''fk you to the rest of us.
Let's start here
A Brief Guide to the History of Brexit
A long time ago, and I mean a long, long, long time ago, the UK was part of Europe and shared all the resources, travel, exchange of ideas, trading etc. This was fine until there was an upheaval that caused the UK to break away from the land mass of Europe.
This left the inhabitants all on their own and they got to squabbling with each other for resources such as food, fuel and women. One of the countries of Europe decided that it would unite all the rest under one banner, this was the empire of Rome. They came to the UK bringing with them all the benefits of Europe, highways, trading, government etc. However they did not manage to unite all of the UK and found that the inhabitants of the northern part were fiercely independent and had to build a wall to keep them out of the rest of the UK (rUK).
The Romans left after a series of mishaps â€" barbarians attacking their home pads and a series of untrustworthy leaders. The UKers got back to squabbling amongst themselves and after years of this somehow managed to get united. This was fine until another nation decided to unite them with Europe again, the Normans.
After a few years, decades or whatever the Ukers revolted and formed together again. A few other countries decided to have a go at them, Vikings being one of the more aggressive ones. Once again the UK was under someone else’s control and they fought back after a guy was spotted burning some cakes in a marsh somewhere down south and made their leader.
A few centuries and lots of wars later the UK became one country, albeit they decided to conquer the northern bit and subject the people there to their rule. They weren’t chuffed about this and fought back a good few times, won some fights and lost others.
After a lot of this the UK was united under one king and more or less settled down.
There followed a lot of wars both at home and away and then the UK decided it was going to get bigger by invading other places instead of being invaded themselves so they expanded to become the biggest and richest in the whole world. A few of the places they stole were not happy and one after another they fought back and took control of themselves but not after the UK robbed them blind before skipping out.
Fast forwards to the 20th century and the UK found some black liquid under the sea off the coast of the northern bit. Finding this was a godsend as after having giving up plundering other countries they were starting to feel the pinch. To benefit from this they got rid of a few organisations in the northern part and took all of the profits for themselves, hiding the actual wealth of the northern bit in a report that they locked away from prying eyes.
Around the same time the UK decided it wanted to be part of Europe again and signed the application form and paid the entry fees getting loads of benefits from the common purse that helped them.
The folks in the northern part were getting really pissed off with their neighbours down south and decided that they wanted to become a country of their own and with this they revitalised a political party called the SNP. Years and years went by with the northern folk being told what to do by the southern folk and this just got them more and more pissed off at the way they were treated. I mean, you make lots of money and it gets taken away from you and then you get a pittance of pocket money back would you not be pissed off too?
At the time this was happening the southerner’s government decided to sell off the family silver to their friends and these friends made loads and loads of money out of it. So much that they did not want to part with it and started to hide it where the taxman could not get it. All the time they got richer and richer and the country got poorer and poorer, as if they cared what happened to the rest of the people as long as they had all the money.
The folks in the northern bit decided that they wanted to be on their own and they asked for and got permission to decide their future. This would have been fine if the southerner government played fair but they didn’t and told all sorts of lies to the northerners such as ‘your pension will disappear’, ‘you will not be a part of the EU’, ‘you’re too wee to look after yourselves’ and more lies. They made loads of promises to the northern folks and all the auld yins decided that it would be a good thing not to go it alone and voted to stay. As soon as they did this they realised that they had been hoodwinked by the southerners yet again.
The southerners decided that they did not want to be in the Europe club any longer and had the people vote after telling them loads of lies about the benefits of leaving the club. The northern bit did not think this was a good idea as they were promised that if they stayed they would stay in the club so they voted to stay in the club but the bullies from the south got their own way.
A few years went by with a few changes of leaders of the southern government until a clown stepped into the empty shoes of the previous leader without the people voting for him. This clown was one of those that told the lies about how nasty it was to being in the club and how wonderful the world would be outside of it. The clown made a new deal of sorts and was heard uttering the same phrase, over and over, time after time, until people got so sick of it they voted him to be their leader just to shut him up. The northern folk were mightily pissed off by now and voted overwhelmingly for their own political guys instead of the ones controlled by the southerners.
This did not make any difference for the northern folks so they had their leader write to the clown for permission to vote on leaving the UK club. The clown laughed and played with his phone and said no but knew that saying no was going to get him a load of grief he does not want.
The outcome of this?
Just wait and see!
Roddy Scott.
So the outcome is coming.
They cant brexit without us (Scotland),because without all our resources how the fk wd they finance their lavish lifestyles.
https://imgur.com/AhrFUA8
to be continued..................
Earlier today, I shared a post about the EU saying something along the lines of ‘nobody has explained ... what the benefits are ... of leaving the EU. I got this fantastic reply from my friend Vince Orchiston ... I am sharing it, because I want everyone to see it, he says it perfectly! Thank you Vince and I hope you don’t mind me sharing 😊
“What every TV street reporter and TV pundit fail to ask some loudmouth member of the English public shouting about " All we want is Brexit done !" is ..." "Why !" ..."why do you want to get Brexit done ? In what way is it going to improve your life ? "
"What is missing in your life that you think Brexit is going to cure ? "
I will guarantee not one person in the street or in a Question Time audience would be able to answer these questions.
That's the reason none of the media or even the politicians will put that question to the public...because half of them don't have a clue what they're voting for ! So they don't pose the question... knowing that they will be there all day trying to get one member of the public to give a coherent answer ! Also knowing that the viewers will be put off in their droves by clueless people mumbling and fumbling for an answer to one of the most important votes in recent history...it would cause the viewers to think " Actually ! Why did I vote for Brexit myself ???"
They don't want you to think ! That's why the mantra " Let's get Brexit done! " is repeated relentlessly on the news and in the media.
It's drilled into your brain subliminally to subconsciously change your behaviour...it's what the media and the establishment do ...and their bloody good at it !!!
To me...the English electorate have been herded up and led like doe-eyed cows to the slaughter house ...led there on a wave of World War 2 let's get back to the good old days when Brittania ruled the waves nostalgia.
And what for ?
For the benefit of the elite ! So they can carry on regardless with their tax evading ways away from the prying eyes of the EU.
It's for the people with a vested interest in protecting their millionaire hordes .
It was never about the benefits to Joe Public...they were just rounded up and brainwashed into thinking that...they were just a means to an end .
We need the public onside so let's brainwash them until they can't think straight anymore ! Then we will offer them a way out of their collective madness and they will gladly follow like robotic drones with only one programme : OBEY !!!
Well England all I can say is ...good luck in your brave new world under the Third Reich...but we Scots want no part of it ...we are the enlightened ones ...a forward thinking, progressive nation that will forge it's own path in life ...after all it was we Scots that invented the modern world wasn't it !!! ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ³ó £ó ´ó ¿ðŸ'
Bon Voyage England ! 🇬🇧ðŸ'‹ðŸ'‹ðŸ'‹â€
Mary Jenkins.
As I see these Brexit delays continue, I begin to wonder ... will it take a war to determine whether or not Germany dominates all of Europe?
I'm more interested in IF Germany should dominate Europe. I see very little reason they shouldn't.
Quote from: Shiranu on December 23, 2019, 12:26:22 AM
I'm more interested in IF Germany should dominate Europe. I see very little reason they shouldn't.
Hey is almost happened decades ago, maybe they should open up the camps again :)
Quote from: Munch on December 23, 2019, 06:21:23 AM
Hey is almost happened decades ago, maybe they should open up the camps again :)
I've been trying to grasp Shiranu's perception about this, but I'm totally at a loss to understand why he thinks this.
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 22, 2019, 10:23:22 PM
As I see these Brexit delays continue, I begin to wonder ... will it take a war to determine whether or not Germany dominates all of Europe?
EU began, at Nazi meeting in Paris in 1944, regarding post-war Europe. In 1992 E Germany took over W Germany, giving a new color to EU developments (EUSR). The EU as is, is a new Warsaw Pact, hoping to be the W end of the New Silk Road of China and Russia.
Yes, Scots want all English dead. Labor wants all royalists and wealthy dead. Imagine SNP as Robespierre combined with William Wallace ;-> Note Lenin beard. A hard Trotskite Europe might be a good thing for it. Namely, it can forget not becoming the larger Zimbabwe.
Quote from: Shiranu on December 23, 2019, 12:26:22 AM
I'm more interested in IF Germany should dominate Europe. I see very little reason they shouldn't.
There are Germanophilia and Germanophobia. This is based entirely on emotion (as SJW have proven). It was British policy for over 200 years to prevent any single power dominating Europe, including France, Germany or Russia. Was that a good policy? Ultimately at great cost, French and Russian domination was avoided. German domination was stopped twice, but the Germans were successful on the third try (though they are still occupied by US troops). I have tried to overcome WW II prejudice I have. Being part German myself. That is why I have concentrated on the German Empire in my posts. Perhaps all of continental Europe including Ukraine should have been dominated by Germany. But Russia would have been sad ;-(
Quote from: Munch on December 23, 2019, 06:21:23 AM
Hey is almost happened decades ago, maybe they should open up the camps again :)
Under E Germany now, with un-reconstructed Nazis in the Communist regime after the war. W Germany did what it could to de-Nazify. Now Europe is under E Germany 2.0 and Vichy France 2.0. Is that bad? Only GB has burned Washington DC.
Quote from: SGOS on December 23, 2019, 07:48:16 AM
I've been trying to grasp Shiranu's perception about this, but I'm totally at a loss to understand why he thinks this.
Hypothesis .. Shiranu is a recovering SJW. He is of mixed ancestry, and relates best to his non-White non-Anglophone parts. Nothing wrong with that. I relate to my English parts better than my Irish/Scottish/Welsh parts … or my Germanic parts. Anglophile totally.
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 16, 2019, 07:46:56 PM
Looks like Scotland doesn't want to leave the EU. Are they going to have to split from England?
Unless England kicks them out first. The merger was in 1707, because Scotland was bankrupt. In 1715 and 1745 the Highlanders, who didn't accept the debt of the Lowlanders, revolted and lost. England retaliated by enclosure, suppression and deportation of most Highlanders. Basically a contest between Campbells (lowland) and McClouds (highland) that England intervened in.
Scotland today had its own partial parliament. And they are running into financial difficulty again (SNP and Labour are authoritarian socialist). So of course, that faction in Scotland, wants to be part of the EUSR. Same as the Republic of Ireland and their desire to reverse a 400 year old colonization by the English (ended in 1920s) and the Scottish (1600+).
Why? Because Catholic Ireland and Presbyterian Scotland were constantly allied with Spain and France, forming an existential threat to England. In 1745, Bonnie Prince Charlie nearly won, could have taken London. But they got cold feet, due to false rumors of a non-existent English army. Culloden happened after the Scottish army retreated due to the fog of war and the English had time to reinforce.
I'll be honest, in a selfish way, I use to be concerned about Scotland cutting from the UK and staying in the EU, due to my partner's living their and how important it felt to have that ease between the two places.
Now they live in Northern Ireland I no longer care, though I did love scotland when visiting, think it's a beautiful country, my sights are no longer on it anymore, and I have little reason to revisit it now. So if Scotland did break from the UK, I wouldn't be as concerned about it as I would have a year ago.
That said, I do like count dankula, so gonna keep subbed to him.
(https://i.imgur.com/V6vmQKk.jpg)
We've had a show like that for years, its called EastEnders
"Britain's Security Services Granted License To Kill" ... court confirmation that this already was true. 007 is real. But he doesn't do anything more useful than screw beautiful dames.
"Did Macron And Johnson Negotiate A Hard Brexit In October?" ... conspiracy theory. Macron wants to take over the EU from Merkel. Hard Brexit is one way, by creating an economic collapse that can be blamed on UK and Merkel.
You must admit that there's plenty of room for a shit storm here.
I've discussed trade wars before, and the response is "but they would be hurting themselves". A very funny response because in every war, be it a trade war or a shooting war, the winning side takes some damage but inflicts more damage on the other side. If no country every took a move that would harm itself, then no country would ever wage war.
I have plenty of people telling me that the EU is more than willing to engage in self-harming trade wars against the UK to punish the UK for daring to leave. This would make it messy.
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 31, 2019, 12:19:31 AM
You must admit that there's plenty of room for a shit storm here.
I've discussed trade wars before, and the response is "but they would be hurting themselves". A very funny response because in every war, be it a trade war or a shooting war, the winning side takes some damage but inflicts more damage on the other side. If no country every took a move that would harm itself, then no country would ever wage war.
I have plenty of people telling me that the EU is more than willing to engage in self-harming trade wars against the UK to punish the UK for daring to leave. This would make it messy.
EU has no choice. Without net funding input (GB and others) the EUSR is just welfare mothers ... the biggest being Germany and France. Net welfare for Germany/France is necessary for their domestic politics. So this is existential for them. War will happen eventually, or Labour will take GB back into the hands of Mother Merkel (to prevent war).
A bit of history. GB wants to be Singapore West. But Ireland already was this, with very favorable corporate tax better than GB. The EUSR had to Borg Ireland, and had them vote multiple times on wanting to be admitted to the new E Germany. GB never got to vote, their Parliament decided for them, which is the open door thru which Brexit happened. Now Ireland has no economic competition other than peat bogs and Bailey's. Nobody can be allowed to compete with Germany (and its French poodle). This is what GB was trying to prevent since 1870.
"MERKELS NEW CENSORSHIP LEGISLATION EVEN OPPOSED BY THE FAR LEFT" ... when the going gets tough, Merkel proves it is Stazi all the way down.
Some good might come out of Brexit after all -- it seems the ongoing clusterfuck has just about killed euroskepticism on the continent (https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/how-the-uk-killed-euroscepticism-across-europe-1.3910882). "Frexit" and "Dexit" proposals have vanished from the manifestoes of Le Pen's National Front and Alternativ für Deutschland, and other right-wing nationalist parties have stopped talking about referenda and *exits because they look across they look across the Channel and shudder. Johnson's electoral victory isn't going to change that, because part of what he needed to do to win was promise ex-Labour voters that he won't be a right-wing nationalist -- and of course once Brexit is done, ex-Labour voters won't need him anymore.
Meanwhile, Twitter user RussInCheshire previews the UK-EU trade talks... and probably has them nailed pretty well correctly (https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1208333108472434688).
The elites have learned that if you let the peasants decide they might choose the wrong thing. British peasants chose Brexit, US peasants chose Trump, and French peasants almost chose LePen.
So don't even let them vote on it. It is too risky.
Quote...US peasants chose Trump...
>implying it wasn't the elites who chose Trump, especially since he lost the popular vote by several million.
(https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/c8f80dfef690e6e20d8550562fa75867b8abc59e-1570208804.jpg)
Quote...British peasants chose Brexit...
>implying it wasn't the elites who pushed Brexit.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/403be89a45584ec04e90e190a53ed2da/tumblr_ou7j4nYDYm1qfeaoyo8_r1_500.gifv)
The "peasants" have a very strange way of always voting in favour of the aristocracies interest, and you think the aristocracy wants to take that away from them?
Big. Lawls.
I bet you think middle class white people are the "peasants", ignoring the much larger demographics of actual peasants who have been systematically disenfranchised and had their voice stripped away from them.
British Independence Day ... only took them another 244 years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB5Nbp_gmgQ
Buh Bye europe, at last I can tell my nephews, the soul sucking wrath angela merkel will no longer come after them.
Have to hand it to Boris; that's finally over with.
Now for the transition period.
Brexit truly is the gift that keeps on giving.
Quote from: Munch on January 31, 2020, 06:17:02 PM
Buh Bye europe, at last I can tell my nephews, the soul sucking wrath angela merkel will no longer come after them.
Don't worry, MI6 etc watches everything y'all do. GB is still a police state. The Stazi have nothing on them.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 31, 2020, 07:24:52 PM
Have to hand it to Boris; that's finally over with.
Now for the transition period.
Brexit truly is the gift that keeps on giving.
Nobody knows how the next 11 months will work out. Tories you know. The problem for the EU is ... will they lose fishing rights in UK waters ... and will Germany suck up the lost income from GB (1 billion pounds per month) or will your Berlin overlords charge it on the small members. I don't think that GB finance will be moving to Frankfurt anytime soon. Deutchebank has some bad loans to clear itself.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 31, 2020, 07:24:52 PM
Have to hand it to Boris; that's finally over with.
Now for the transition period.
Brexit truly is the gift that keeps on giving.
I haven't been following recently, so I had to look at something from the BBC to see if it's actually over. The way I read it is that Brexit is now done, except it's not. I thought Jan 31 would be it, and it is, except it's not. From what I read, there could be another 2 years of Brexit, either fallout or aftermath, and while I didn't read this, I'm imagining more deals sought, agreements just out of reach, disenchanted UK citizens, extended deadlines, transfers of political powers, and more wrangling. This is the kind of stuff I expect in the US, but apparently things do get lively in Europe too.
Quote from: SGOS on January 31, 2020, 08:17:39 PM
I haven't been following recently, so I had to look at something from the BBC to see if it's actually over. The way I read it is that Brexit is now done, except it's not. I thought Jan 31 would be it, and it is, except it's not. From what I read, there could be another 2 years of Brexit, either fallout or aftermath, and while I didn't read this, I'm imagining more deals sought, agreements just out of reach, disenchanted UK citizens, extended deadlines, transfers of political powers, and more wrangling. This is the kind of stuff I expect in the US, but apparently things do get lively in Europe too.
its just basically building the foundation of brexit which is now complete, all that comes after now is whats being built up though negotiations without the complications of 'will it won't it' thrown in.
At this point... as long as it doesn't respark conflict between the Irish and the colonizers, let the U.K. shoot itself in the foot as much as it would like. They avoided a hard border, so hopefully things over there can remain mostly business as usual.
Quote from: Munch on January 31, 2020, 08:26:15 PM
its just basically building the foundation of brexit which is now complete, all that comes after now is whats being built up though negotiations without the complications of 'will it won't it' thrown in.
Still possible for no-deal Brexit between now and end of 2020. Hopefully the EU won't self immolate.
Militant IRA looking for any excuse. They already said, the partial border is a declaration of war by GB. This is why the British Empire used to shanghai all the young men into the Royal Navy and British Army, and send them to India.
"Negative Rates Are Forcing German Banks To Hoard So Much Cash They're Running Out Of Space" ... the failing German economy ;-(
Okay, UK, you're out.
Betcha you'll be back inside 20 years. This is without question the dumbest foreign policy move by the UK since Chamberlain went to Munich. So good luck, you're gonna need it.
Quote from: trdsf on February 02, 2020, 02:26:39 AM
Okay, UK, you're out.
Betcha you'll be back inside 20 years. This is without question the dumbest foreign policy move by the UK since Chamberlain went to Munich. So good luck, you're gonna need it.
Not so sure, the transition period alone may take well over 20 years at this rate. They might not be truly out by then.
No but seriously, I honestly believe all partners will be worse off when the dust settles. But not sure if GB will want to return ever. even if it means being 'worse off'.
As long as you believe you are better off or have some high ground you may not wish to return to how it was. Animal farm comes to mind as an extreme and perhaps too harsh example.
Quote from: trdsf on February 02, 2020, 02:26:39 AM
Okay, UK, you're out.
Betcha you'll be back inside 20 years. This is without question the dumbest foreign policy move by the UK since Chamberlain went to Munich. So good luck, you're gonna need it.
Communism is inevitable - Karl Marx
If they want to be proper communists, don't join the EU, join China. China has competent communism. EU does not.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on February 02, 2020, 04:35:12 AM
Not so sure, the transition period alone may take well over 20 years at this rate. They might not be truly out by then.
No but seriously, I honestly believe all partners will be worse off when the dust settles. But not sure if GB will want to return ever. even if it means being 'worse off'.
As long as you believe you are better off or have some high ground you may not wish to return to how it was. Animal farm comes to mind as an extreme and perhaps too harsh example.
"End of history" takes infinity years. Let us define "out" as "end of history". This is essentially a Marxist definition of history (it is the economy stupid, as defined by French Revolution), with a realistic timeline ;-) Yes, Belgium needs more class war. Who is King Leopold I? You aren't even a republic. Status quo (28 years of EU) usually holds, except when it doesn't. GB leaving is a black swan (not being in the Euro helped). Depending on how the Reich responds to the pain coming, more countries will leave. Germany may leave. The British Empire was usually a net negative ... the colonies cost more than they were worth. German demographics and productivity is why GB declared war on Germany, twice. The German Empire is the same, even the French are an albatross around the neck of Germany.
Unfortunately, if the point is "my people better off economically" you can either work harder and cheaper than China (at the butt end of the New Silk Road) ... or you need to colonize an inferior country. Can Belgium conquer Slovenia, enslave its population like Catalonia? It isn't inevitable you will be socialist, let alone prosperous. The Marxist idea is that Capitalism is run by Scrooge McDuck, and the commissars just need to distribute all the gold in Scrooge's vault. This is why Germany wants to confiscate all the private gold in Germany, and strangle Switzerland to death. France also has a lot of private gold, and Germany won't let Italy leave unless it gives up its "state" gold supply. Gotta back that Deutchmark with something more real than Bitcoin.
PS regarding Gibraltar. Good thing the Germany army is like the US army in 1939. The most recent German Army exercise, too many of their military vehicles were in need of repair. And some Wehrmacht had to do the maneuvers in their private cars. In 1939, the US army used logs for cannon and brooms for guns.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on February 02, 2020, 04:35:12 AM
I honestly believe all partners will be worse off when the dust settles. But not sure if GB will want to return ever. even if it means being 'worse off'.
As long as you believe you are better off or have some high ground you may not wish to return to how it was. Animal farm comes to mind as an extreme and perhaps too harsh example.
I don't know who will be better off if anyone, but I think your description of the psychology involved is spot on. And I'll speculate that the psychology holds true across all world cultures. The problem is that politics is not based on reality. It's based on human desires. OK, that human desires exist is a reality, but it's one step away from actual reality. It's perception, not reality. Also, I think it will get worse with the internet and other forms of communications that promote fake news, fake facts, conspiracy theory, and does not differentiate between reality and any hair brained thought that farkles through the mind of any cognitively impaired dumb ass.
With that kind of information pervading the media, I wouldn't expect anyone to know who actually benefits from Brexit, if anyone. In the end, people only care if they feel like they benefit.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/01/britain-brexit-boris-johnson-influence-control/605734/?utm_source=pocket-newtab
I had to slog through this article from the Atlantic, because like the NY Times, the Atlantic does not lend itself to skimming. Call it confirmation bias, because it confirms my right to be confused. No one knows if Brexit is good or bad for the UK. There may be things to gain, but things that are lost. But "maybe" pervades any and all conclusions. I watched in wonder when the EU was formed, but only with an interested curiosity. Most of the limited input I got from others was enthusiastic glee. The unbounded enthusiasm itself, made me skeptical. Too me, it was an experiment, that would only be judged later as a success or failure.
The conclusion reported by the Atlantic was that the result of Brexit would probably not be a catastrophic collapse for the UK, but at worst a slow puncture. I guess this paints a picture of net loss, but I don't think it was the Atlantic's intention to support that opinion. The slow puncture analogy was based on a quote from a former conservative supporter of British autonomy, now turned in favor of the EU, and to me that suggests an opinion from someone who is not quite sure about what is happening.
But another perception of mine is that things which cannot be proven true or false become the most hotly contested debates leading to outright contempt for the opposing ideas, which themselves cannot be proven true or false. Most people can agree to some degree on facts, but will defend their opinions with unusual vigor.
Correct. People claim they can predict the economic, climatic or political future, and we don't treat them as the carnival frauds they in fact are.
Good for whom? Maybe in 10 years, looking back, we will know if it was good for GB or good for Germany.
Quote from: Baruch on February 02, 2020, 11:14:34 AM
Correct. People claim they can predict the economic, climatic or political future, and we don't treat them as the carnival frauds they in fact are.
Good for whom? Maybe in 10 years, looking back, we will know if it was good for GB or good for Germany.
lets be honest, people saying it will be bad are basing it on emotional attachment and belief more then what actually might happen. People get offended that a country wants to be independent like Britain from the EU, but same people get offended that scotland isn't allowed to go independent themselves despite a democratically elected choice to remain happened.
The offensive part is not whether Scotland voted (or votes in the future) to remain. The offensive part is that they have to get permission to hold a vote, and that there's this attitude the last one counts now and forever when there has been a fundamental change in the UK's relationship with Europe that Scotland clearly disagreed with in the referendum.
If 'one and done' is the metric, then the referendum in the 70s settled the question and there should never have been the two since. And if multiple tries are permissible on the UK's membership in Europe, then multiple tries are okay on Scotland's membership in the UK. There's just no consistent justification to deny a second independence referendum.
I'm less interested in Scotland actually voting to leave the Union than I am in them just having the right to make their own decision, regardless of the outcome.
Quote from: trdsf on February 02, 2020, 01:52:44 PM
I'm less interested in Scotland actually voting to leave the Union than I am in them just having the right to make their own decision, regardless of the outcome.
I'm less interested in Endland actually voting to leave the EU than I am in them just having the right to make their own decision, regardless of the outcome.See, it works both ways.
Quote from: trdsf on February 02, 2020, 01:52:44 PM
The offensive part is not whether Scotland voted (or votes in the future) to remain. The offensive part is that they have to get permission to hold a vote, and that there's this attitude the last one counts now and forever when there has been a fundamental change in the UK's relationship with Europe that Scotland clearly disagreed with in the referendum.
If 'one and done' is the metric, then the referendum in the 70s settled the question and there should never have been the two since. And if multiple tries are permissible on the UK's membership in Europe, then multiple tries are okay on Scotland's membership in the UK. There's just no consistent justification to deny a second independence referendum.
I'm less interested in Scotland actually voting to leave the Union than I am in them just having the right to make their own decision, regardless of the outcome.
Let us go back to the boundaries of the Roman Empire, to correct borders? Scotland is bankrupt in early 18h century and now, bunch of angry drunks. Being romantic about Outlander won't change that. Socialism means that Scotland will never economically recover, in the EU it would be another vacation location for Germans, like Greece.
If you support independence, do you support Catalonia in Spain and Brittany in France? I would be happy to see Spain and France reduced to city states. Not to mention breaking up Italy into multiple pieces. But that can't happen in a Federal EU ... aww.
Quote from: Munch on February 02, 2020, 02:58:21 PM
I'm less interested in Endland actually voting to leave the EU than I am in them just having the right to make their own decision, regardless of the outcome.
See, it works both ways.
I never said it didn't. In fact, I explicitly recognized that the election in December is a ratification of the 2016 vote. I still think it was a mistake, but at least the election wasn't run on the pixie shit and unicorn farts Leave spread in 2016. Did you have a point, or are you just wasting electricity?
Quote from: trdsf on February 02, 2020, 09:38:19 PM
I never said it didn't. In fact, I explicitly recognized that the election in December is a ratification of the 2016 vote. I still think it was a mistake, but at least the election wasn't run on the pixie shit and unicorn farts Leave spread in 2016. Did you have a point, or are you just wasting electricity?
okay, well chew on this one then. If scotland did go for a second referendum, and that had the same result, would it be justified to have another, and another, and another, until getting the result you wanted? Because thats not democracy, thats just mockery.
Now if they stand by their peoples choice and then wait 10 or so years for another one, at least that wouldn't seen childish.
Quote from: Munch on February 02, 2020, 10:27:31 PM
okay, well chew on this one then. If scotland did go for a second referendum, and that had the same result, would it be justified to have another, and another, and another, until getting the result you wanted? Because thats not democracy, thats just mockery.
Now if they stand by their peoples choice and then wait 10 or so years for another one, at least that wouldn't seen childish.
You mean like the EU referendum that confirmed the UK's membership by a roaring margin, until a whisper-thin majority voted to leave in 2016?
You're ignoring the reality that the facts on the ground have changed radically since the last independence referendum -- there wouldn't be anywhere near the justification had the UK voted to remain because there wouldn't have been that change.
Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain, and now they're being forced to leave against their wishes. There is simply no justification to deny them a say on the matter. If the rest of the UK can convince them to vote to remain in union, there you go. If not, oh well, you brought that on yourselves.
Generally speaking, I tend to support self-determination. I believe states have the right to secede from the US as well.
Quote from: Munch on February 02, 2020, 02:58:21 PM
I'm less interested in Endland actually voting to leave the EU than I am in them just having the right to make their own decision, regardless of the outcome.
See, it works both ways.
Yeah, but England chose to be part of the EU. Scotland didn't have that choice with the UK.
It really doesn't work both ways when your comparing apples to screwdrivers. It's like saying someone getting a divorce because their spouse beats them and someone getting a divorce because they are tired of the relationship and want to see other people are basically the same thing.
Quote from: Munch on February 02, 2020, 10:27:31 PM
okay, well chew on this one then. If scotland did go for a second referendum, and that had the same result, would it be justified to have another, and another, and another, until getting the result you wanted? Because thats not democracy, thats just mockery.
Now if they stand by their peoples choice and then wait 10 or so years for another one, at least that wouldn't seen childish.
Are you an EU troll? That is how the Commission arranges votes ;-)
Quote from: Shiranu on February 03, 2020, 04:29:30 AM
Yeah, but England chose to be part of the EU. Scotland didn't have that choice with the UK.
It really doesn't work both ways when your comparing apples to screwdrivers. It's like saying someone getting a divorce because their spouse beats them and someone getting a divorce because they are tired of the relationship and want to see other people are basically the same thing.
Some people are anarchists, pretending to be democratic. What they want is all cops gone, so they can enjoy their drugs of choice.
The question of which territory should belong to who (see Israel) and how far back in time do we need to correct White Male Privilege (but never Brown/Yellow/Red Male Privilege) is a black hole with no escape. I haven't owned any real estate since 1989 ... since after all, the Government thru Eminent Domain is the real owner, and they stole it from the Natives (who stole it from other Natives). SJWs and Communists, play the game of Risk Commissar. Put me in charge of being President Wilson etc at Versailles.
There are Maga Hats who want to secede from Liberals, and make war on them. Yes, freedom is great until your fist reaches my nose. Then my trusty Claymore cuts your arm off.
Barnier wants abject surrender of GB to Brussels, to get a trade treaty. To prevent GB from competing with the EU (aka socialist protection racket).
Junker added he wants to break up the US, to prevent the US from competing with the EU.
Time for Super-US and Super-UK to put on their super-suits, and destroy EUSR like we destroyed the USSR. Maybe we should weaponize jihadis ... oh, doing that!
Americans know how to deal with Europeans ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_CFGVPO7SY
Why was the US in WW I? ... Zimmerman telegram. Last time Germany conspired to break up the US.
Irexit next?
"Irish Voters REJECT EU Federalist Varadkar" ... oops. The Leprechauns are restless.
Sinn Fein gains. Nationalist-Left. Not pro-EU for the same reason old Labour in UK was anti-EU.
When does Iceland join the EU to fill the power vacuum? They've had legal beer for nearly a decade now. That should qualify them.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Also, when the EU formed, there was included a process for leaving that nobody thought anyone would actually use. When the UK formed, nobody imagined a process for leaving.
Still, it would be fun to let Scotland vote and see what happens.
Quote from: SvZurich on February 10, 2020, 03:33:25 PM
When does Iceland join the EU to fill the power vacuum? They've had legal beer for nearly a decade now. That should qualify them.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Iceland hates Globalists more than anyone, since 2008 Iceland banking crisis. They actually jailed people, unlike the US/Germany. So why would they become slaves of George Soros? The proper filling of the power vacuum is for Russia to join the EU, who will then tell Germany and France to STFU.
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on February 10, 2020, 08:09:17 PM
Also, when the EU formed, there was included a process for leaving that nobody thought anyone would actually use. When the UK formed, nobody imagined a process for leaving.
Still, it would be fun to let Scotland vote and see what happens.
However, most Scottish land isn't owned by Scots, but by the Queen, English lords and foreign oligarchs.
"HALF of Scotland is owned by just 500 people, few of whom are actually Scots. As Britain's great land-owning aristocratic families decline, a new breed of foreign laird is exploiting Scotland's arcane land laws to buy up tracts of the Highlands and islands - Europe's last great wilderness."
"It has been estimated that fewer than 500 people own half of all privately-owned land in Scotland. That is one of the highest concentrations of land ownership in Europe."
"The Crown owns four estates that cover 37,000 hectares of land on mainland Scotland." aka 92,500 acres.
"Scotland's two most powerful private landowners â€" the Danish clothing billionaire Anders Holch Povlsen and his wife Anne; and the Duke of Buccleuch â€" each own more than 80,000 ha (200,000 acres), spread across multiple properties."
"London Times Says Embracing Traditional Gender Roles Is A Form Of ISIS-Style Extremism" ... this is hate speech in the UK ... Islam is unmentionable and unobjectionable. But any non-Muslim can be targeted. The proper comparison would compare traditional gender roles to Nazism. Nobody objects to that.
"The Death Of Free Speech: Zuckerberg Asks Governments For Instructions On "What Discourse Should Be Allowed"" ... specifically EU and GB. GB did Brexit because they wanted a different police state than the EU wants.
Post brexit immigration will be with a point system if you want to come and work and live there.
70 points to pass.
Being able to speak English, 10 points. Having a job offer, 20 points etc. Interesting take to say the least, worries amongst certain groups of businesses. Others cheering it on.
Quote from: trdsf on February 03, 2020, 04:02:02 AMScotland voted overwhelmingly to remain, and now they're being forced to leave against their wishes. There is simply no justification to deny them a say on the matter. If the rest of the UK can convince them to vote to remain in union, there you go. If not, oh well, you brought that on yourselves.
Generally speaking, I tend to support self-determination. I believe states have the right to secede from the US as well.
I dunno if I'd go that far.
Democracy inherently produces dissenting groups from the prevailing consensus. Hell, I live in a blue county in a red state in a country that periodically bounces back and forth.
That said, if Scotland were to have another referrendum...
Well, let's just say that it'd be pretty odd for Brexiters to advocate for self-rule as a rationalization for pulling away from the EU and then oppose the same rationale for pulling away from the UK.
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 20, 2020, 01:10:50 PM
Well, let's just say that it'd be pretty odd for Brexiters to advocate for self-rule as a rationalization for pulling away from the EU and then oppose the same rationale for pulling away from the UK.
Pretty much. There aren't really any arguments for Brexit that don't also support Scottish independence, just substitute 'Westminster' for 'Brussels'.
Quote from: trdsf on February 20, 2020, 05:06:50 PM
Pretty much. There aren't really any arguments for Brexit that don't also support Scottish independence, just substitute 'Westminster' for 'Brussels'.
And why all of Europe should return to tribes and city states. Bring back Etruscan!
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on February 20, 2020, 12:55:08 PM
Post brexit immigration will be with a point system if you want to come and work and live there.
70 points to pass.
Being able to speak English, 10 points. Having a job offer, 20 points etc. Interesting take to say the least, worries amongst certain groups of businesses. Others cheering it on.
Labour and Tories, with support of the EU, are all guilty of importing low skill workers, both from EU or Eastern Europe, but also the new "refugees" from 2015 onward. This suppression of work and wages among blue-collar workers is something middle class Londoners don't care about. But is why Labour is now in trouble with blue-collar workers who used to be rock solid for them. The same thing has happened in the US, since Reagan, and is bipartisan. The "coasts/metros" in the US are like London.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on February 20, 2020, 12:55:08 PM
Post brexit immigration will be with a point system if you want to come and work and live there.
70 points to pass.
Being able to speak English, 10 points. Having a job offer, 20 points etc. Interesting take to say the least, worries amongst certain groups of businesses. Others cheering it on.
Cheap labour forces will be stumped, their have to do the unthinkable, and actually hire people at a living wage
Quote from: Munch on February 20, 2020, 05:34:49 PM
Cheap labour forces will be stumped, their have to do the unthinkable, and actually hire people at a living wage
That is unthinkable, because we are divided into classes with class interests (Marx) and because of the Queen of France (let them eat quiche).
"The Bogus Big Brother-Big Tech Brawl Over Backdoors" ... a few years ago, the FBI did have to hire a "cracker" outfit to take encrypted data off of a cell phone that is evidence in a crime. Maybe Apple agreed with China, that causes the authorities East and West, too much trouble ;-) But this is why you don't want HUAWEI or any other company controlled by the Chinese communist party, to control your telecom equipment. GB thinks that HUAWEI only selling phones but not switches, isn't much of a problem. Problem is you can intercept communications at the phone, not just at the switch. Letting the Chinese communist party control your cell phones, just makes China's job harder, not impossible.