I find this rather amusing.
Now if the court approves, will he lose his pension?
QuoteEmile Ratelband, a Dutch citizen, petitioned a court to alter his birth certificate, making him legally 20 years younger. Transgender activists flipped. If sex is subjective and fluid, why not age? Bill Whittle Now examines the liberty of a person to force government to contradict biology.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUBnCPWv_kM
QuoteIf sex is subjective and fluid, why not age?
Gender is fluid, not sex.
And like sex, age is not fluid. This is stupid.
Quote from: Shiranu on December 08, 2018, 01:06:54 AM
Gender is fluid, not sex.
And like sex, age is not fluid. This is stupid.
So if I change my gender am I still the same sex as before?
Quote from: pr126 on December 08, 2018, 02:44:10 AM
So if I change my gender am I still the same sex as before?
Unless you have a sex-change operation, i guess?
So anyone who claims to be a gender not his/her/xe original sex, (without the sex change operation) and demands to be addressed by the "proper" pronoun is bogus? Can be ignored?
Gender fluid makes no sense.
It means that is changeable on a whim from day to day.
No permanence. Sex change operation is.
How many claiming to be "transgendered" had surgical operations?
Why are there so many different genders?
What is the point? Isn't this special pleading?
In the case of children, it is "suggested" by irresponsible adults, knowing that children want to be "special" to gain attention.
Plus, it serves a purpose. The political agenda to further deconstruct western civilization.
Quote from: pr126 on December 08, 2018, 02:56:08 AM
So anyone who claims to be a gender not his/her/xe original sex, (without the sex change operation) and demands to be addressed by the "proper" pronoun is bogus? Can be ignored?
Sure, if you want to be obnoxious.
Insisting on calling a transgender person by their born sex is basically like a person asking to be called "Bob" and insisting on calling him "Robert" because that is the name on his birth certificate or insisting someone who is a naturalized citizen of the United States isn't American because they were not born in America. When someone asks me to refer to them a certain way I do so out of common courtesy and basic respect for them as an individual. Some may deride this as "political correctness" but I think of it as manners.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on December 08, 2018, 03:33:17 AM
Sure, if you want to be obnoxious.
Insisting on calling a transgender person by their born sex is basically like a person asking to be called "Bob" and insisting on calling him "Robert" because that is the name on his birth certificate or insisting someone who is a naturalized citizen of the United States isn't American because they were not born in America. When someone asks me to refer to them a certain way I do so out of common courtesy and basic respect for them as an individual. Some may deride this as "political correctness" but I think of it as manners.
Obnoxious? Not at all.
Why do I have to play along in somebody’s fantasy, someone who lost his/her grip on reality?
Should I condone, "celebrate" mental illness? Not a chance.
In Canada, See Bill C-16 (https://bjhspatriotpages.com/news/2018/01/15/controversial-gender-pronoun-laws-in-canada/)it is now the Law to play along.
Quote from: pr126 on December 08, 2018, 03:39:03 AM
Why do I have to play along in somebody’s fantasy?
You don't. You have a choice and choices have consequences. Fortunately, the consequences in the US aren't legal.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on December 08, 2018, 04:02:53 AM
You don't. You have a choice and choices have consequences. Fortunately, the consequences in the US aren't legal.
Could these people play this game outside the Western cultures, say, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, China, etc. and be respected?
Quote from: pr126 on December 08, 2018, 04:06:35 AM
Could these people play this game outside the Western cultures, say, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, China, etc. and be respected?
No, it's obviously better in the United States, which is why so many people want to live here.
I'll be honest, there is really no point in me having a conversation with you, Shiranu or Munch. We don't share the same values or perspectives. I'll stay out of your topics.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on December 08, 2018, 04:16:41 AM
No, it's obviously better in the United States, which is why so many people want to live here.
I'll be honest, there is really no point in me having a conversation with you, Shiranu or Munch. We don't share the same values or perspectives. I'll stay out of your topics.
Thank you.
QuoteI'll be honest, there is really no point in me having a conversation with you, Shiranu or Munch. We don't share the same values or perspectives. I'll stay out of your topics.
Ouch :I.
I have even conceded that Munch was right on some occasions, so I feel a bit attacked... but fair enough.
Quote from: pr126 on December 08, 2018, 02:44:10 AM
So if I change my gender am I still the same sex as before?
No. People are variant. Some variance we choose to call illness. See Michel Foucault. Human sanity is fluid. Society has recently chosen to change this definition (in the US etc) in regard to gay people. But that doesn't apply to everyone. Gayness was called an illness, now it is not. But should bestiality?
Transgenderism is an illness, for which I feel sympathy for, as I do for all ill people. Gender isn't a choice though, this is why you need a psych's approval to be labeled transgender. Just like you need a doctor's diagnosis, to get prescriptions. But sociopaths don't like medical controls on drugs, or on diagnosis. You can't diagnose yourself either, that is a conflict of interest.
Gender is a nebulous concept having to do with male/female difference that doesn't involve sexual partner choice. That sexual partner choice is sex. Similarly gayness isn't a choice, because if it is, it can be outlawed as sociopathic. Transgenderism is usually medicated, hence the need for a professional diagnosis, not a political pronouncement. Gayness isn't usually medicated, except for typical problems straights have (impotence).
And then there is genetic/birth defect variation. The normal variations are called, variations. The worse variations are called defects. Hermaphrodites and Siamese twins for instance. Such people are also eligible for medical treatment.
Mostly what we see today, is anarchy, where the patient wants to make their own diagnosis, and prescribe some drug for themselves, usually an opiate ... for the pain of modern life ;-(
Quote from: GSOgymrat on December 08, 2018, 04:16:41 AM
No, it's obviously better in the United States, which is why so many people want to live here.
I'll be honest, there is really no point in me having a conversation with you, Shiranu or Munch. We don't share the same values or perspectives. I'll stay out of your topics.
This doesn't have to do with medical diagnosis, this is crazy Left British politics, just like one can officially declare oneself part of the Jedi religion. Mad dongs and Englishmen troll the East End. Americans use American word definitions (and these constantly change year by year) ... English do it the English way. We don't share a common language.
No it isn't about how LBTWHEJRJ you are on the political spectrum. Basically this is a nervous breakdown of civilization in preparation for the End.
Baruch wrote:QuoteNo it isn't about how LBTWHEJRJ you are on the political spectrum. Basically this is a nervous breakdown of civilization in preparation for the End.
With lots of help and encouragement from the cultural Marxist who wants to dismantle western civilization.
They are succeeding.
Quote from: pr126 on December 08, 2018, 04:52:08 AM
Thank you.
He means, 'freedom of speech, is not freedom from consequences'.
And yeah, he is too civilised for you. I am not. :)
Quote from: pr126 on December 08, 2018, 08:51:36 AM
Baruch wrote:With lots of help and encouragement from the cultural Marxist who wants to dismantle western civilization.
They are succeeding.
Self destruction is the natural trajectory of modernity, not travel to the Gamma Quadrant to trade in dilithium crystals.
Consequences? As in a gulag for all the feral psychopaths?
If I understand the term "gender fluid" correctly, it means someone who isn't sure. I think that is rational.
Not that I fully understand the feeling (because really I am happy as I am), but IF one can cross gender lines legitimately, there must be a place in between when one is not sure and one could possibly reside there in doubt for any length of time.
AND if I understand it correctly, it isn't the same as bi-sexual.
Life is getting very complicated. I hope I die before I'm considered an "animal-sentience denier" because I keep a few cats in the house and pretty much control their lives about food and outdoor access. I suppose that someday, that may be considered a terrible thing. And I'm not joking. The sensitivities of the future are not ours to see.
Yes, you are speciesist to Peta.
Gender fluid here, was used politically, not medically. Some in GB want to declare a different gender or pronoun, any time they feel like it. That isn't bisexual. Just stupid.
Quote from: Shiranu on December 08, 2018, 01:06:54 AMGender is fluid, not sex.
You're talking to a wall. pr126 is perfectly capable of understanding these things. He just chooses not to. It doesn't fit his vision of returning to "the good ol' days."
I object to the very use of that phrase actually, sounds like male or female bodily fluids.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 09, 2018, 06:54:12 AM
If I understand the term "gender fluid" correctly, it means someone who isn't sure. I think that is rational.
That isn't what the fluid part means.
It's a spectrum. Like a scale from 0-10 or probably more accurately, a selection from a color pallet in photoshop. A pixel selection out of a ton of different variants.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on December 10, 2018, 12:29:42 AM
That isn't what the fluid part means.
It's a spectrum. Like a scale from 0-10 or probably more accurately, a selection from a color pallet in photoshop. A pixel selection out of a ton of different variants.
There is a spectrum, partly because gender is ill-defined. But most studies say that gender and sexual preference don't really changed much during one's lifetime.
I have just graduated in gender studies.
What career opportunities do I have?
Quote from: pr126 on December 08, 2018, 02:56:08 AM
So anyone who claims to be a gender not his/her/xe original sex, (without the sex change operation) and demands to be addressed by the "proper" pronoun is bogus? Can be ignored?
Gender fluid makes no sense.
It means that is changeable on a whim from day to day.
No permanence. Sex change operation is.
How many claiming to be "transgendered" had surgical operations?
Why are there so many different genders?
What is the point? Isn't this special pleading?
underlined:
Nah. I mean; you
can ignore them. You're not required by law to go along with this.
But all I'm saying is that changing your gender or identifying as one, doesn't influence your sex. You know; your biological body doesn't change with the power of law or mind alone. A man born in a woman's body is still biologically a woman. But just because he hasn't changed his body yet or perhaps never will, if he wants to be called a 'he', I'll oblige to the best of my capability. I might slip up, and I doubt anyone is going to severely ruin my shit for that. But if you don't want to, that's your own call.
I will say I've never met anyone who is 'gender-fluid', as in changing from identifying as male or female from one day to the next and changing it on a regular basis like some 'clothes' one decides to wear in morning. As in: 'Ah, yesterday-evening I went to the bar and chatted with the lads over a nice pint as 'Mark',' but today I'm feeling more like 'Marceline' so I'll go to work in my red skirt and my blonde wig. I will admit that that idea is even more alien to me than the idea of identifying as a different gender. It might not be the right thing, but I think I'd probably think of that person as occasionally transvestite rather than transgender.
Quote
In the case of children, it is "suggested" by irresponsible adults, knowing that children want to be "special" to gain attention.
Plus, it serves a purpose. The political agenda to further deconstruct western civilization.
Oh come on PR, you know full well this is part of the Atheist agenda to deconstruct the power of the Catholic church, not Western civilization. We've been over this in the quarterly AF meetings, time and again.
No honestly, one of the reasons why I stay out of most of your threads is because of stuff like this. I mean, it's not that I mind your opinions on the forum, though I frequently dissagree with them. I do sometimes find something I agree with you on. And even when I don't, it's good that this place isn't just an echo-chamber.
Though It's just that when you say this stuff that it makes me think you think there's some SPECTRE type organization out there, meeting in undisclosed hidden locations, planning the end of the Western civilization, made up of an otherkin Dr. Evil, his transgender dwarf-clone, a muslim assassin, a feminazi Frau Farbissina and a SJW-Number 2, along with a politically correct 'Slim-defiant Child born out of wedlock' (rather than Fat Bastard).
And that between their sessions of crying and applauding each-other for just being each-other, they use their
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/xyyqoHCkw9I/hqdefault.jpg)
to destroy the West through the most efficiënt way possible.
Namely inventing a non-stop stream of pronouns that will expand to such a vast percentage of the words used in the languages of Western countries, that all other communication will become impossible. Insurance companies will fall when they can't decide whether to insure a driver as 'male' or 'female', the price of paper will increase thousandfold when every pronoun must be included on official documents, leading to a financial crisis, ... so very wicked, and us dumb shits never even saw it coming.
QuoteI will say I've never met anyone who is 'gender-fluid', as in changing from identifying as male or female from one day to the next and changing it on a regular basis like some 'clothes' one decides to wear in morning.
I'm sure people like that do exist, but that seems to be a very common misinterpretation that I hear pretty often of what gender fluid even means.
A river only flows in one direction.
Fluidity does not mean that something must be wishy-washy and slosh back and forth; fluidity is not a statement of what direction something is going but a statement on the ease of movement and that there are no solid barriers marking where one section of the liquid ends and another begins.
Quote from: pr126 on December 10, 2018, 05:50:06 AM
I have just graduated in gender studies.
What career opportunities do I have?
Can you talk sweet to girls?
Quote from: PickelledEggs on December 10, 2018, 12:29:42 AM
That isn't what the fluid part means.
It's a spectrum. Like a scale from 0-10 or probably more accurately, a selection from a color pallet in photoshop. A pixel selection out of a ton of different variants.
You are correct. Even trying to get it right, I didn't.
I meant that sexual identity seems variable for some people. Though, I'll admit, for reasons I do not grasp psychologically myself.
I try, I fail, I try again...
Quote from: Cavebear on December 18, 2018, 05:53:48 AM
You are correct. Even trying to get it right, I didn't.
I meant that sexual identity seems variable for some people. Though, I'll admit, for reasons I do not grasp psychologically myself.
I try, I fail, I try again...
Someone on Atheistforums.org, which I also frequent, just came out on the forum as 'gender fluid', said (s)he changed between identifying as gender as male this day and as female that day.
Immeadiately was reminded of this thread. I told her, (she said most of the time she prefered to be called 'she' and said it was easiest if we were to just do that all the time, on top of her being biologically of the female sex) I didn't quite grasp gender-fluidity, but that I'd still treat her the same as before.
I also don't grasp it psychologically. Don't think I ever will.
My identity as "male" seems so firmly and simply fixed that I don't understand another view other than equally female. I suppose trying is a start.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 18, 2018, 07:57:37 AM
My identity as "male" seems so firmly and simply fixed that I don't understand another view other than equally female. I suppose trying is a start.
I would suggest, clinically, that a true gender fluid person, has a low gender identification to begin with. Someone with strong gender identification would be clearly masculine or feminine (in gender, not in sexual preference). A bi-person might be something yet different, they could have a strong sex drive, but be unspecific in their target.