QuoteWashington state legislator Matt Shea was forced to admit recently that he had authored a four-page document that serves as a “Biblical Basis For War†that calls for murder of those who disagree with his group’s core beliefs. Shea has also called for the state of Washington to be split up in order to form a new state called “Liberty.†Ring of Fire’s Farron Cousins discusses the mental illness that is apparently rampant in the Republican Party.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i06tnKg7pHg
This guy wants to use the Bible to justify his version of how things should be, just as his forebears did to justify slavery. "The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name." Exodus 15:3
(https://media.giphy.com/media/ukGm72ZLZvYfS/giphy.gif)
One often overlooked aspect of Christian doctrine is that those whom are living are known as the Church Militant (Ecclesia militans) and are literally soldiers of Christ meant to wage war against that which is unholy. Growing up, we were always taught about the beauty of "spiritual warfare" against the Devil.
I know we say it all the time, but I think it doesn't always even fully sink in for us... Christianity is an Abrahamic religion, and Abrahamic religions are deeply entwined with warfare and struggle, much moreso than say Dharmic religions (escaping the cycle of Rebirth) or more primal religions like Shintoism, Daoism or most African and Native American religious traditions that are meant to appease nature or live in harmony with it.
Given the nature of Abrahamic religions, it's really not at all weird what he proposes; I would say it is much more inline with Christian doctrine than odd for it, regardless of how much reform Christ tried to bring to Judaism. Even Christ's teachings often times involve invoking military and martial themes.
I can remember many times all us 'christian children' sang (to the tune of 'The Old Grey Mare')
"I'm too young to march in the infantry
shoot the artillery; ride in the cavalry
I'm too young to fly o're the enemy
but I'm in the lord's army. Yes, sir!"
After I was out of college it finally dawned on me first how strange it was for an officially pacifist denomination to teach its children that song and, secondly, how horrified we'd all be to hear a bunch of 'muslim children' singing "I'm too young to machine-gun the infidel" even if they insisted that the lyrics were merely symbolic of "spiritual warfare".
Which is called Jihad.
I agree that as long as Abrahamic religions survive in an organised form, this is where they are all going with power. But then you can accomplish something similar under 'patriotism'. So it looks like one way to go in the world in our era.
It's how this usually goes. When Trump wins for the second term, and he will in my opinion, these things will be the norm. And what is before called; the left and right and religious, will turn into the two camps of far right and the fundamental religious. Any real left will be regarded as treason or some sort of potential domestic terrorism. It will be like the n word.
I know how it sounds, lol. It's what happened over here. The most common mistake is Westerners think that's not going to happen in their country. Or that it is different. It's not. It's an unbelievable change happening in a short time, you don't believe as it happens. You don't comprehend it. Then it becomes the normal. And then one morning you look... you live in a completely alien, dangerous place.
Hang in there.
In my country there is a seriously high rise in deism, agnostcisim and atheism. The new groups are mostly far right people. 15 years ago, almost all atheists over here were strictly left. Like the socialist left. You could make an easy generalisation, because that's how atheism entered and survived in the country to begin with. There was no diversity in political tendency at all. Same with Europe then, I suppose. How things change.
Quote from: Shiranu on November 04, 2018, 10:53:22 PM
One often overlooked aspect of Christian doctrine is that those whom are living are known as the Church Militant (Ecclesia militans) and are literally soldiers of Christ meant to wage war against that which is unholy. Growing up, we were always taught about the beauty of "spiritual warfare" against the Devil.
I know we say it all the time, but I think it doesn't always even fully sink in for us... Christianity is an Abrahamic religion, and Abrahamic religions are deeply entwined with warfare and struggle, much moreso than say Dharmic religions (escaping the cycle of Rebirth) or more primal religions like Shintoism, Daoism or most African and Native American religious traditions that are meant to appease nature or live in harmony with it.
Given the nature of Abrahamic religions, it's really not at all weird what he proposes; I would say it is much more inline with Christian doctrine than odd for it, regardless of how much reform Christ tried to bring to Judaism. Even Christ's teachings often times involve invoking military and martial themes.
Correct. Called Just War theory. And part of the reasoning behind the Declaration of Independence (which was written by radical British colonists who deviated from the Church of England.
Abrahamic religions aren't going anywhere ... and all three support Just War theory. Technically it is a stretch for modern Israel, because it is an essentially secular population like Europe.
The anomaly is that the proponent of the memo, is a Republican instead of a Democrat. But both former Texas and present California governors have threatened secession. There are proposals for California itself to be broken into three separate states.
So non-pacifist atheists object to non-pacifist theists considering war to be thinkable? Are these the same people who applaud artistic representations of the assassination of George W or Donald? But not Barak?
It's often easy to tell who hasn't been in a war.
The thing that bothers me most about this is that it's not some rando on the internet, this is a lawmaker. Elected 4 times, no less. 4 times too many.
I mean check out his wiki page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Shea). It has more red flags than an expert game of minesweeper.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 05, 2018, 02:57:09 PM
It's often easy to tell who hasn't been in a war.
He actually was in Iraq.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 05, 2018, 02:57:09 PM
It's often easy to tell who hasn't been in a war.
But did you learn anything from the experience?
Yes, warmongers like Dick Cheney frequently have a boil on their ass that excuses them. Same as Bill Clinton.
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 05, 2018, 03:17:42 PM
He actually was in Iraq.
We should have drafted all the non-Veterans from the 60s, and sent all of them to Iraq in 2003.
Here's the document, so you can peruse it at your leisure:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5026577-Biblical-Basis-for-War.html
There is clearly a Biblical basis for G-d to exterminate all of mankind. Second time is a charm ;-)
Conservative Christians love their wars. They frame their stupid wars as "fighting for freedom," whether by "protecting" our freedoms (which totally makes sense to do from 6,202 miles away), or by "liberating" the people we invade, even though we really just make everything worse for them. And heaven forbid you question the motives of the use of our military, or else you are obviously an unpatriotic Communist. This asshole is just more consistent in his approach to war. It's horrific, but it's the logical conclusion one must come to when they worship a god who said, "Happy is the one who seizes your (Babylon's) infants and dashes them against the rocks."
Leftists ... pacifists? Really? Atheists ... pacifists? Do tell?
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 05, 2018, 02:19:44 AM
I know how it sounds, lol. It's what happened over here. The most common mistake is Westerners think that's not going to happen in their country. Or that it is different. It's not. It's an unbelievable change happening in a short time, you don't believe as it happens. You don't comprehend it. Then it becomes the normal. And then one morning you look... you live in a completely alien, dangerous place.
I never thought it could happen here until 10 years ago. I thought with the separation of powers and all the propaganda I was fed about the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, all we had to fear were outsiders. Then I watched 67% of our country stop reasoning after 9-11, and I realized how fragile any political system can be. All the junk that's written on our country's documents, and all the principles we were taught about democratic freedoms can be lost at the drop of a hat, "an unbelievable change happening in a short time, you don't believe as it happens."
It does happen. Perhaps it's inevitable. People are easily manipulated and susceptible to bizarre facts and outright falsehoods. Conservatives have been waiting for a leader like Trump to give them the excuse to let out their innermost craziness, and the whack jobs are coming out of the closet to follow his lead, while blurting out nonsense at every turn.
The danger to democracies isn't from outside sources, which play but a minor role. The real danger comes from within. We do these things to ourselves with unjustified confidence that we can act without thought or consequences to ourselves.
Turkey and the US are going through the same thing. You might be a little ahead, but I'm confident we can catch up. Don't think for a moment that Turkey has a monopoly on crazy people. As they say in poker, "I'll see your country's crazies, and raise you double with our own."
Quote from: SGOS on November 06, 2018, 06:46:22 AM
democratic freedoms can be lost at the drop of a hat, "an unbelievable change happening in a short time, you don't believe as it happens."
If Trump can get away with squashing the 14th amendment, we may be in for a really bad time over the next few years, as Trump successively squashes all the other parts of the Constitution that he and his GOP cronies don't like.
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 06, 2018, 01:24:43 PM
If Trump can get away with squashing the 14th amendment, we may be in for a really bad time over the next few years, as Trump successively squashes all the other parts of the Constitution that he and his GOP cronies don't like.
And those parts of the constitution they don't like and then squash---only then retrieve them from the trash can, dust them off and use when it suits them. And Amerkia just goes along with it.
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 06, 2018, 01:24:43 PM
If Trump can get away with squashing the 14th amendment, we may be in for a really bad time over the next few years, as Trump successively squashes all the other parts of the Constitution that he and his GOP cronies don't like.
Why not? As the Germans said to Belgium in 1914 ... it is just a piece of paper. Y'all need to move to Sweden, before the ME rapists get all the blondes!
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 05, 2018, 03:17:00 PM
The thing that bothers me most about this is that it's not some rando on the internet, this is a lawmaker. Elected 4 times, no less. 4 times too many.
I mean check out his wiki page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Shea). It has more red flags than an expert game of minesweeper.
Hey, this is 'Murrica. We have lots of morons elected because they live in districts populated by morons. We have the King Moron in the White House.
Quote from: Minimalist on December 08, 2018, 01:06:56 PM
Hey, this is 'Murrica. We have lots of morons elected because they live in districts populated by morons. We have the King Moron in the White House.
So why complain about lack of representation? The average Joe is represented.
Because the average joe is a fucking idiot.
Quote from: Minimalist on December 09, 2018, 01:25:34 PM
Because the average joe is a fucking idiot.
Yeah--on a good day!
Quote from: Mike Cl on December 09, 2018, 03:06:40 PM
Yeah--on a good day!
Which is why the absolute monarchy of Europe circa 1675 would be a good thing to return to. Which noble rank are you?
Quote from: Minimalist on December 09, 2018, 01:25:34 PM
Because the average joe is a fucking idiot.
And he now, finally, has representation in the WH.
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 09, 2018, 05:24:04 PM
And he now, finally, has representation in the WH.
You diss Millard Fillmore? The outrage!
James Buchanan was our first gay President.
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 09, 2018, 05:24:04 PM
And he now, finally, has representation in the WH.
There are times when damn fools elect damn fool leaders. We normally survive that, but international events are moving faster these days.
QuoteAfter decades of research and debate, the EPA was on the cusp of banning all use of chlorpyrifos, a poison that attacks the nervous system. But in 2017, then-EPA administrator Scott Pruitt delayed a decision by five years. Science correspondent Miles O'Brien reports that fight is part of a larger battle over the use of scientific studies and industry pressure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4BTsnRdKPo
This pesticide has been shown to cause brain damage in children, and in the rural areas where it has been used for decades. I wonder how much damage has already been done to the brains of rural people, and whether that might help explain why they vote so consistently for Republicans.
DDT won't hurt you (old time materialism advocate takes a good dose). Molecules are neutral.
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 29, 2018, 02:29:40 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4BTsnRdKPo
This pesticide has been shown to cause brain damage in children, and in the rural areas where it has been used for decades. I wonder how much damage has already been done to the brains of rural people, and whether that might help explain why they vote so consistently for Republicans.
The Trump/Republican rule is "pesticides be damned, only Democrats and immigrants eat salads... No loss there". And "More where they came from"...
Listeria is the biggest threat to salads, not bugs. Viral contamination. However other plants like orange trees ... may need pest control.
2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
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Quote from: Jonathan on April 02, 2019, 11:10:16 PM
2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
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Why don't you go to the intro section and introduce yourself. Or are you our typical theist drive-by type??
How do I do that?
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Quote from: Jonathan on April 02, 2019, 11:24:43 PM
How do I do that?
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We have an Intro section, and you create a new entry for yourself ;-)
Quote from: Jonathan on April 02, 2019, 11:10:16 PM
2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
It doesn't matter what your Bible has to say about anything, since most Christians have never read it, and they just ignore the parts they deem to be inconvenient. They just interpret it to mean whatever they want it to mean.