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Humanities Section => Political/Government General Discussion => Topic started by: GSOgymrat on October 17, 2018, 03:28:56 PM

Title: "Exhausted majority"
Post by: GSOgymrat on October 17, 2018, 03:28:56 PM
I probably fall somewhere in this group.

‘Exhausted majority’ feels left out by politics talk, study says. Are you one of them?

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article219787295.html

Feel left out of politics? Wish there was a way to find compromise? Don’t feel concretely tied to a particular political party?

If you answered yes, a new study says, you may be part of the “exhausted majority” of Americans. That’s the finding of “Hidden Tribes: A Study of America’s Polarized Landscape,” a new study of 8,000 people in the U.S. that found a wide swath of Americans reject political correctness and the rigid partisanship that has come to define our modern political discourse. They are tired of the current tension in politics, the study found, and just under 90 percent say this is the most divisive time in America during their lifetimes.

Tim Dixon — co-founder of More in Common, a group that helped conduct the study — said this study exposes the truth that many Americans have experienced within their own families and groups of friends.

“From every corner of the country,” Dixon said in a press release, “we have heard from Americans that politics is tearing apart their families and friendships, and affecting their jobs and daily life. We found that most Americans are fed up with this.
 
“Their views may differ on many issues,” he continued, “but a clear majority feel exhausted by the us-versus-them conflict which has spread from far-away debates in Congress to bitter disputes among neighbors, coworkers, and even family members at the Thanksgiving table.”

Researchers grouped people into seven political “tribes” by asking them questions about hot-button issues such as immigration, Islamaphobia, white privilege, sexual harassment and feminism.
Just 8 percent of people belong to the most liberal group, which is called “progressive activists,” according to the study. And another 6 percent belong to the “devoted conservatives” group, while another 19 percent are considered “traditional conservatives.”

Everyone else, the study says, belongs to the “exhausted majority” — which is made up of moderates (15 percent), the politically disengaged (26 percent), passive liberals (15 percent)

Those in that group “do not conform to either partisan ideology,” the study says. Instead, “they share a sense of fatigue with our polarized national conversation, a willingness to be flexible in their political viewpoints and a lack of voice in the national conversation,” according to the study’s authors. ...



Title: Re: "Exhausted majority"
Post by: Baruch on October 17, 2018, 06:52:27 PM
I have evolved over time into a "Traditional Conservative".  I don't consider that the RNC or DNC represent my interests.

But this was at least a contemporary and interesting report.

The US has never been one country, never been unified.  Our lack of unity now is no surprise to me.
Title: Re: "Exhausted majority"
Post by: SGOS on October 17, 2018, 07:19:02 PM
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I probably fall somewhere in this group.
That probably describes me too.
Title: Re: "Exhausted majority"
Post by: Cavebear on November 03, 2018, 02:51:56 AM
A possible solution lies in voting in party primaries.  Choose the most centrist candidate.  Knock on neighbor's doors to express and seek support for that person.  Put up signs in your yard.  Get local people like that to small offices and support them in further offices.  Support them. 

Most politicians start small.  The good ones can be raised with help.  Give them help.
Title: Re: "Exhausted majority"
Post by: SGOS on November 03, 2018, 06:51:39 AM
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A possible solution lies in voting in party primaries.  Choose the most centrist candidate.  Knock on neighbor's doors to express and seek support for that person.  Put up signs in your yard.  Get local people like that to small offices and support them in further offices.  Support them. 

Most politicians start small.  The good ones can be raised with help.  Give them help.
I'm not sure what you think centrism accomplishes in a polarized environment. 

Here are two opposite political positions:  1) don't kill anyone, and 2) kill everyone.  What is the proper centrist stance?  Obviously, it seems like compromise.  OK, we only kill half the people.

Now the "kill everyone" proponents are half way to their goal.  But the original goals remain unchanged, so the centrist position now becomes only kill half the people that are left.  Now the "kill everyone" side is 3/4 of the way to their goal.  But the goals haven't changed.  You can see where this is going?

Now, you might say well the example doesn't describe Republicans vs.  Democrats, and you would be correct, because those are not stated goals.  However, the mechanics and the eventual outcome of centrism, are still there, leading to a win/lose outcome and winner take all.  Centrism is a process.  Capitulation is the outcome.

I ask myself, why would I want to be a centrist when there are no centrists in the opposition to talk to?  Are there some?  Who?  And most of all, if there are some, how does that stop us from killing half the people?

Centrists got us into an accelerating conservative drift to the right, where we are today.  And are the Republicans pleased with this?  Absolutely not.  They are more angry and unmoving than they were yesterday.

 
Title: Re: "Exhausted majority"
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2018, 11:14:55 AM
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A possible solution lies in voting in party primaries.  Choose the most centrist candidate.  Knock on neighbor's doors to express and seek support for that person.  Put up signs in your yard.  Get local people like that to small offices and support them in further offices.  Support them. 

Most politicians start small.  The good ones can be raised with help.  Give them help.

Correct.  But blame the propaganda or the barbarism of the people ... as to why we don't do that.
Title: Re: "Exhausted majority"
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 03, 2018, 12:04:56 PM
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I'm not sure what you think centrism accomplishes in a polarized environment. 

Here are two opposite political positions:  1) don't kill anyone, and 2) kill everyone.  What is the proper centrist stance?  Obviously, it seems like compromise.  OK, we only kill half the people.

Now the "kill everyone" proponents are half way to their goal.  But the original goals remain unchanged, so the centrist position now becomes only kill half the people that are left.  Now the "kill everyone" side is 3/4 of the way to their goal.  But the goals haven't changed.  You can see where this is going?

Now, you might say well the example doesn't describe Republicans vs.  Democrats, and you would be correct, because those are not stated goals.  However, the mechanics and the eventual outcome of centrism, are still there, leading to a win/lose outcome and winner take all.  Centrism is a process.  Capitulation is the outcome.

I ask myself, why would I want to be a centrist when there are no centrists in the opposition to talk to?  Are there some?  Who?  And most of all, if there are some, how does that stop us from killing half the people?

Centrists got us into an accelerating conservative drift to the right, where we are today.  And are the Republicans pleased with this?  Absolutely not.  They are more angry and unmoving than they were yesterday.


If centrism is simply splitting the difference then I don't think it's very effective. I would prefer more people approach issues with less ideology or concern for political party. For example, can someone be pro-choice and against legalizing marijuana? I would say yes, these are different issues where different values can be considered. Other people, like libertarians, would disagree because they look at the issues through the lens of government interference. They have a worldview where they apply the same value, personal liberty, to all issues resulting in very predictable interventions. Can an LGBTQ person vote for Republican candidates? In my view, of course they can but some people think that doing so is voting against their own interests. They assume all LGBTQ people have the same values or aren't willing to sacrifice one goal to achieve a more important goal. Ideological consistency and fidelity to political parties limit options when it comes to thinking of creative solutions to complex problems.
Title: Re: "Exhausted majority"
Post by: Baruch on November 03, 2018, 01:37:32 PM
Splitting the difference is like the pact of Hitler with Stalin over Poland.  A couple years later, I am coming for the other half of the pie.  That is how we got ACA, not Single Payer.
Title: Re: "Exhausted majority"
Post by: Cavebear on November 09, 2018, 12:47:10 PM
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I'm not sure what you think centrism accomplishes in a polarized environment. 

Here are two opposite political positions:  1) don't kill anyone, and 2) kill everyone.  What is the proper centrist stance?  Obviously, it seems like compromise.  OK, we only kill half the people.

Now the "kill everyone" proponents are half way to their goal.  But the original goals remain unchanged, so the centrist position now becomes only kill half the people that are left.  Now the "kill everyone" side is 3/4 of the way to their goal.  But the goals haven't changed.  You can see where this is going?

Now, you might say well the example doesn't describe Republicans vs.  Democrats, and you would be correct, because those are not stated goals.  However, the mechanics and the eventual outcome of centrism, are still there, leading to a win/lose outcome and winner take all.  Centrism is a process.  Capitulation is the outcome.

I ask myself, why would I want to be a centrist when there are no centrists in the opposition to talk to?  Are there some?  Who?  And most of all, if there are some, how does that stop us from killing half the people?

Centrists got us into an accelerating conservative drift to the right, where we are today.  And are the Republicans pleased with this?  Absolutely not.  They are more angry and unmoving than they were yesterday.

That is exactly the arguments Fox News and Trump loves.  Digital "either/or" contests are not the graduations we struggle with in real life. 

So I often consider the source.   If Hitler wanted to do "A" and Googuy Myhatmycoat wants to do the opposite, I don't have to meet in the middle.  There are equivalencies and there are false equivalencies.
Title: Re: "Exhausted majority"
Post by: Baruch on November 11, 2018, 09:04:22 AM
Here is the full survey of current political spectrum in the US ...

https://hiddentribes.us/profiles/

This should be particularly interesting to Drunkenshoe ... except that she is devoted to Continental Philosophy rather than empirical data ;-)

It has a quiz ... you can still take it.  I came out as Traditional Liberal (as would happen if I am not being rhetorical).
Title: Re: "Exhausted majority"
Post by: SGOS on November 11, 2018, 12:07:44 PM
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If centrism is simply splitting the difference then I don't think it's very effective. I would prefer more people approach issues with less ideology or concern for political party.
Yes, thank you.  The idea of concern for the party is sold to us by the party.  Voters are consumers, who like all other consumers of products, are affected by the pitch.  Voters then end up supporting a party at the expense of their own self interest.

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Ideological consistency and fidelity to political parties limit options when it comes to thinking of creative solutions to complex problems.
Solving complex problems is never easy.  Party fidelity doesn't solve the problems we face, but it does create a lot of waving of flags, cheering, thrills of victory, and agonies of defeat.  It's entertaining and provides visceral excitement, but when it comes to improving the lives of our families, party loyalty is about as helpful as supporting the local high school varsity.  The goal of the team isn't quite the same as the goal of families as they go about their daily lives.
Title: Re: "Exhausted majority"
Post by: Cavebear on November 14, 2018, 07:21:11 AM
I scored "Traditional Conservative"  Some parts of that are correct.  But I don't vote to my personal benefit; I can succeed in any general democracy.  I VOTE for "the good of the nation".  There's a difference. 

I want to make the world a better place for ME to live in.
Title: Re: "Exhausted majority"
Post by: Baruch on November 14, 2018, 12:48:29 PM
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I scored "Traditional Conservative"  Some parts of that are correct.  But I don't vote to my personal benefit; I can succeed in any general democracy.  I VOTE for "the good of the nation".  There's a difference. 

I want to make the world a better place for ME to live in.

Thanks for the quiz result.  I am in fact more liberal than you.  You failed to make things better though.  It has been going bad to worse since 1960.  As is typical, you have an elevated view of your place in history "John Brown".
Title: Re: "Exhausted majority"
Post by: GSOgymrat on November 14, 2018, 01:06:49 PM
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It has a quiz ... you can still take it.  I came out as Traditional Liberal (as would happen if I am not being rhetorical).

I also scored Traditional Liberal.

Traditional Liberals reflect the liberal ideals of the Baby Boomer generation. They maintain idealistic attitudes about the potential for social justice in America, yet they are less ideological than Progressive Activists. They also are not as intolerant of conservatives. They have strong humanitarian values, and around half say that religion is important to them. Traditional Liberals are significantly more likely to say that people “need to be willing to listen to others and compromise.” They are the most likely group, along with Progressive Activists, to handle conflict by “getting to the heart of the disagreement.” Overall, Traditional Liberals respond best to rational arguments and are inclined to place more faith in the viability of American institutions, even if they are disillusioned with the country’s current direction.
Title: Re: "Exhausted majority"
Post by: Baruch on November 14, 2018, 01:23:46 PM
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I also scored Traditional Liberal.

Traditional Liberals reflect the liberal ideals of the Baby Boomer generation. They maintain idealistic attitudes about the potential for social justice in America, yet they are less ideological than Progressive Activists. They also are not as intolerant of conservatives. They have strong humanitarian values, and around half say that religion is important to them. Traditional Liberals are significantly more likely to say that people “need to be willing to listen to others and compromise.” They are the most likely group, along with Progressive Activists, to handle conflict by “getting to the heart of the disagreement.” Overall, Traditional Liberals respond best to rational arguments and are inclined to place more faith in the viability of American institutions, even if they are disillusioned with the country’s current direction.

Even the description, on its own, fits me well.  But I don't "rhetoric" that way.
Title: Re: "Exhausted majority"
Post by: Unbeliever on November 14, 2018, 01:37:03 PM
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Here is the full survey of current political spectrum in the US ...

https://hiddentribes.us/profiles/

This should be particularly interesting to Drunkenshoe ... except that she is devoted to Continental Philosophy rather than empirical data ;-)

It has a quiz ... you can still take it.  I came out as Traditional Liberal (as would happen if I am not being rhetorical).

I don't fit any of those labels very well, so I guess I'm a freak. Maybe I'm just a non-conformist.
Title: Re: "Exhausted majority"
Post by: Cavebear on November 14, 2018, 03:07:04 PM
You DO realize that ANY intelligent person can score whatever they want on such tests just by knowing the purpose of the tests right?
Title: Re: "Exhausted majority"
Post by: Baruch on November 14, 2018, 07:41:32 PM
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You DO realize that ANY intelligent person can score whatever they want on such tests just by knowing the purpose of the tests right?

Dishonest people can even get elected ;-)
Title: Re: "Exhausted majority"
Post by: Baruch on November 14, 2018, 07:42:39 PM
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I don't fit any of those labels very well, so I guess I'm a freak. Maybe I'm just a non-conformist.

Be happy with non-conformist, I don't think you are a freak.  Remember, any categorizations will keep 80% of the sample and throw out the 20% that doesn't fit either a round hole or a square hole.