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Humanities Section => Political/Government General Discussion => Topic started by: Munch on September 26, 2018, 05:24:33 AM

Title: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Munch on September 26, 2018, 05:24:33 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gD-KObuxIMM

Well, this was surprising.

I agree with a lot of what he said, speaking as a Brit wanting similar acts within my own country.

Just wish my own leaders had the balls to say it.

So let's see this get ripped apart now.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: pr126 on September 26, 2018, 05:35:50 AM
No matter what he does or says, he is hated by the Dems, want him dead. (TDS)

Sore losers.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Munch on September 26, 2018, 05:44:50 AM
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No matter what he does or says, he is hated by the Dems, want him dead.
Sore losers.

That's the problem with political cognitive dissonance, when a side is so spurred on by hatred, they ignore the problems said person is talking about says, automatically dismissing them because the big bad man's saying it.

He might be a villain to many people, but even villains say things that are correct, and it's naive to ignore those problems.

But he's correct on a lot of issues we face today. Each country should have the deciding factor is how it handles the immigration issue. Each country that's ever grown and prospered has only done so by being its own independent nation not governed by outside forces but by its own democratic systems within making its own choices (hence why the EU is such an abomination).

The immigration issue is not going to be solved by having an open order policy, it's only going to be solved by the nation's these people are flooding from being taken care of and fixing the problems there, rather then letting other countries collapse from overpopulation due to mass immigration plus natural growth.

Also he's right on socialism. I dare say a few here think it's a great system, and I think it can have potential. But like any political ideology, you cannot expect just one to be the only ideal in power and for a country to grow. We've seen examples of countries following one political ideology and them failing, so it only works when a mixture of ideologies are supported to a moderate degree.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: pr126 on September 26, 2018, 05:55:17 AM
The migration is driven by the UN and it is global.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Munch on September 26, 2018, 05:57:14 AM
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The migration is driven by the UN and it is global.

Which is why I also agree globalism doesn't work too. The EU was an example of this, and already nations are wanting out of it.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: pr126 on September 26, 2018, 06:12:09 AM
The UN is no longer useful for the nations, it is time to disband this parasitic entity.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Baruch on September 26, 2018, 06:20:17 AM
Immigration ends, when Europe is a completely unattractive place for anyone else to live.  Europe has always been an attractive invasion target.

For N America, including Canada, we will become Spanish speaking, mostly Catholic, Hispanics.  I don't mind that.

This is a matter of a disequilibrium being unstable, and stability being restored even against our foolish wills.

The world will be under China/India superpowers.  The Rothschilds prepared for this by moving the London gold to Hong Kong.

Socialism in Europe is what attracts immigrants.  Prosperity in Europe is what attracts immigrants.  Are you willing to lose both?
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: SGOS on September 26, 2018, 06:28:05 AM
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No matter what he does or says, he is hated by the Dems, want him dead.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
That's the problem with political cognitive dissonance, when a side is so spurred on by hatred, they ignore the problems said person is talking about says.
This is the nature of US politics.  You are right about Democrats hating Trump, as do a lot of conservatives, but stop and listen to conservatives talk about Hillary and Obama, and they are no longer even players.  Republicans have been at the game of anger politics much longer.  They don't just hate Hillary or Obama, but the whole half of the country that disagrees with deregulating the EPA or getting rid of Social Security or curbing global warming.  Politics here is about anger and hatred. If you blame the Democrats for that, you have a very selective perception.  But at least you would be half right.

Our leaders know that if they can generate enough hatred, voters will lose a significant part of their ability to reason, and they have been highly successful at this.  If you think policy is what drives politics here, you are genuinely mistaken.  Sure, some do consider policy, but most voters are overridden by emotion.  This is not an accident.  It's incited by propaganda outlets like  American talk radio.  It's all hate speech with little thought to consequences or reason.  But if you're running for office, you know you will need this propaganda to keep your job.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Baruch on September 26, 2018, 06:31:53 AM
Still virtue signaling?  Think Obama was Lincoln or a Black Superman?  Democrats, rebels against decency since 1861, not since 2016.  Sour grapes since McGovern lost to Nixon in 1972.

Won't matter in the long run, American politics will be Latin American politics, in Spanish.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Munch on September 26, 2018, 06:34:54 AM
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This is the nature of US politics.  You are right about Democrats hating Trump, as do a lot of conservatives, but stop and listen to conservatives talk about Hillary and Obama, and they are no longer even players.  Republicans have been at the game of anger politics much longer.  They don't just hate Hillary or Obama, but the whole half of the country that disagrees with deregulating the EPA or getting rid of Social Security or curbing global warming.  Politics here is about anger and hatred. If you blame the Democrats for that, you have a very selective perception.  But at least you would be half right.

Our leaders know that if they can generate enough hatred, voters will lose a significant part of their ability to reason, and they have been highly successful at this.  If you think policy is what drives politics here, you are genuinely mistaken.  Sure, some do consider policy, but most voters are overridden by emotion.  This is not an accident.  It's incited by propaganda outlets like  American talk radio.  It's all hate speech with little thought to consequences or reason.  But if you're running for office, you know you will need this propaganda to keep your job.

Thing with me is, I don't talk about bad conservative values often, because such things are so blantently bad it's to easy to talk about. Bad conservative values are like so out in the open they don't require digging to reveal the layers of issues they have, unlike the negative effects the opposing side can have, which is often a lot more insidious, since it masquerades as something better then it really is.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Baruch on September 26, 2018, 06:36:22 AM
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Thing with me is, I don't talk about bad conservative values often, because such things are so blantently bad it's to easy to talk about. Bad conservative values are like so out in the open they don't require digging to reveal the layers of issues they have, unlike the negative effects the opposing side can have, which is often a lot more insidious

Support Stalin or Hitler ... die either way.  Same thing for British politics.  May vs Corbin ... sheesh!

I only liked Trump's speech as nostalgia.  It is no more realistic than the Wall.

As far as talking bad about conservatives ... the folks here want an echo chamber to reassure them that Obama is emperor for life in some secret bunker some where, leading the Resistance (Hillary is just a distraction, Obama ran his own administration).  Maybe under that corrupt Obama Theme Park they are building in Illinois.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Munch on September 26, 2018, 06:38:22 AM
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Support Stalin or Hitler ... die either way.  Same thing for British politics.  May vs Corbin ... sheesh!

I support neither. I just want the UK to have its own democratic system not governed by outside forces.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Baruch on September 26, 2018, 06:43:16 AM
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I support neither. I just want the UK to have its own democratic system not governed by outside forces.

Not going to happen there or here.  Did one of the minor British parties have much effect on policy for the last 100 years?  Same as third party candidates here.  You are a Jew in Germany or the Soviet Union metaphorically.  Both countries want you dead.  Because the average citizen is a psychopath, not just a leader.  Without enabling psychopaths, a Hitler or Stalin can do nothing.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: SGOS on September 26, 2018, 07:17:02 AM
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I support neither. I just want the UK to have its own democratic system not governed by outside forces.
When the EU was first created, mostly I wondered about it.  It may turn out to be a failed experiment.  Even if it was founded on good intentions, it will always be subject to corruption like any political system.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: pr126 on September 26, 2018, 10:33:20 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTx37752dTk
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Baruch on September 26, 2018, 12:33:49 PM
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When the EU was first created, mostly I wondered about it.  It may turn out to be a failed experiment.  Even if it was founded on good intentions, it will always be subject to corruption like any political system.

The larger the political body, the more the power and money involved.  And the greater corruption.  A one-world government would be the most corrupt imaginable.  The desire to avoid war is good, but just converting inter-national war into civil war is not an improvement.  The US is at edge against itself, and are far more united than Europe.

On the other hand, excessively small states (Greek city states) aren't that much good either.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Blackleaf on September 26, 2018, 02:30:27 PM
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gD-KObuxIMM

Well, this was surprising.

I agree with a lot of what he said, speaking as a Brit wanting similar acts within my own country.

Just wish my own leaders had the balls to say it.

So let's see this get ripped apart now.

God, it's so painfully obvious when he's reading from a teleprompter. He sounds nothing like this when he's speaking his own mind. Yeah, I actually do agree with some of the things he says, although I wonder who it was who actually wrote those things for him to say.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Draconic Aiur on September 26, 2018, 02:33:06 PM
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God, it's so painfully obvious when he's reading from a teleprompter. He sounds nothing like this when he's speaking his own mind.

True.

Also You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login  You realize its not Trump talking right?
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Unbeliever on September 26, 2018, 02:56:48 PM
Trump should be laughed at every time he shows his face or speaks in public.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Munch on September 26, 2018, 03:23:00 PM
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God, it's so painfully obvious when he's reading from a teleprompter. He sounds nothing like this when he's speaking his own mind. Yeah, I actually do agree with some of the things he says, although I wonder who it was who actually wrote those things for him to say.

my take is, even if he didn't write this himself, and another person wrote it, trumps still reading it out, suggesting he might actually agree with whats being said by the guy who wrote it.

Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Munch on September 26, 2018, 03:26:40 PM
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True.

Also You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login  You realize its not Trump talking right?

you'd honestly have to back that claim up. I don't like him either, but if someone like him can speak about actual issues the world is facing, things only the most virulent detractor would ignore because hating on someone who more important to them then recognizing those issues, then yeah, I can see why certain people might not want to hear him saying it.

You know the phrase a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: GSOgymrat on September 26, 2018, 03:28:01 PM
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God, it's so painfully obvious when he's reading from a teleprompter. He sounds nothing like this when he's speaking his own mind.

I'm grateful he read a teleprompter. Addressing the other leaders of the world isn't the time for extemporaneous speech. God, what I nightmare that would have been!

I can't comment on the speech because I didn't watch the entire thing. The impression that I get is Trump was laughed at after the comment "In less than two years, my administration has accomplished more than almost any administration in the history of our country." This is part of a speech that he has given around the country, it works with his base, but it is self-aggrandizing, inaccurate and not appropriate at a UN general assembly. The Left and Right are spinning the incident to reinforce their own narratives, which they always do.

As far as globalism and nationalism, I don't believe in either, or I believe in both, depending on which you prefer. I believe in addressing problems on a case-by-case basis without the constraints of adhering to an ideological framework.

And just because I think Trump is a terrible president I don't automatically think everything he does is bad. I will say that almost anything Trump does, other people could have done it better.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Shiranu on September 26, 2018, 03:47:57 PM
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my take is, even if he didn't write this himself, and another person wrote it, trumps still reading it out, suggesting he might actually agree with whats being said by the guy who wrote it.



So it was wrong when Anne Hathaway did it, and commendable when Trump does it...

Righty-o then.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Blackleaf on September 26, 2018, 04:13:41 PM
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my take is, even if he didn't write this himself, and another person wrote it, trumps still reading it out, suggesting he might actually agree with whats being said by the guy who wrote it.

Maybe, but I don't know if he deserves that much credit. Someone smarter than him wrote his speech, and I don't know if Trump even fully comprehends the things he said. I'm not just saying that because I don't like him, because there have been times where he was speaking on the fly, and I did agree with him. The thing is most of the time when he's left to fend for himself and rely on his own intellect, he's shown himself to be pretty dim. I mean, this guy thinks that Info Wars is real news for fuck sake. I think most Conservatives are intelligent enough to know that Info Wars is moronic, but Trump doesn't have the brain cells.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Munch on September 26, 2018, 04:15:00 PM
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So it was wrong when Anne Hathaway did it, and commendable when Trump does it...

Righty-o then.

You saying Anne Hathaway didn't write her own speech and someone else did it for her?

Righty-o then.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Munch on September 26, 2018, 04:17:31 PM
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Maybe, but I don't know if he deserves that much credit. Someone smarter than him wrote his speech, and I don't know if Trump even fully comprehends the things he said. I'm not just saying that because I don't like him, because there have been times where he was speaking on the fly, and I did agree with him. The thing is most of the time when he's left to fend for himself and rely on his own intellect, he's shown himself to be pretty dim. I mean, this guy thinks that Info Wars is real news for fuck sake. I think most Conservatives are intelligent enough to know that Info Wars is moronic, but Trump doesn't have the brain cells.

It opens the floor though at just how many other presidents had someone come up with their u.n address speech, cause for all we know, it's the same for every one before.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Blackleaf on September 26, 2018, 04:26:28 PM
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It opens the floor though at just how many other presidents had someone come up with their u.n address speech, cause for all we know, it's the same for every one before.

I don't always trust Presidents, or politicians in general, to say what they mean. In fact, I consider a large portion of them to be deceitful vipers. They say one thing and do another. Trump, however, is unique because he isn't smart enough to be deceitful. It's not that he doesn't lie, but that he doesn't know when to lie. He's said some things in the past that should have got him in trouble, except that his fan base is too loyal to throw him under the bus. He's too stupid to be a backstabbing politician. When Obama read off of the teleprompter, it sounded like him speaking because he always had an air of intelligence. But when Trump reads off the teleprompter, it sounds like a child reading a college textbook they don't understand.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Munch on September 26, 2018, 04:31:40 PM
That's what makes trump so entertaining, he really does just speak his mind, it's probably the most honest president the US has had in a long time, not that it benefits knowing what goes on inside his head lot of the time.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Shiranu on September 26, 2018, 05:27:43 PM
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You saying Anne Hathaway didn't write her own speech and someone else did it for her?

Righty-o then.

Repeating what you said does not mean I agree with it.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: _Xenu_ on September 26, 2018, 08:56:56 PM
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I'm grateful he read a teleprompter. Addressing the other leaders of the world isn't the time for extemporaneous speech. God, what I nightmare that would have been!

Nah. He could threaten a war with Europe and we would forget in a week.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Draconic Aiur on September 26, 2018, 09:02:39 PM
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you'd honestly have to back that claim up. I don't like him either, but if someone like him can speak about actual issues the world is facing, things only the most virulent detractor would ignore because hating on someone who more important to them then recognizing those issues, then yeah, I can see why certain people might not want to hear him saying it.

You know the phrase a stopped clock is right twice a day.



Because receptive words of most of his speeches like "Build a wall and have mexico pay for it", and his tantrum to stay in his tower than the white house make him out to b a selfish person who dosnt care about anything but himself tweeting to the world inappropriate messages as president and embarrassing  Americans.
Title: Re: Trumps U.N speech
Post by: Cavebear on September 27, 2018, 12:03:07 AM
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Because receptive words of most of his speeches like "Build a wall and have mexico pay for it", and his tantrum to stay in his tower than the white house make him out to b a selfish person who dosnt care about anything but himself tweeting to the world inappropriate messages as president and embarrassing  Americans.

I won't pay much attention to Trump.  He cannot speak the truth, cannot say anything consistent for even a few hours.  In the speech he gave to the UN yesterday talking about how wonderful his administration was for the US and tge world, most of the audience just laughed at him, which actually surprised him. 

Later, he declared they were laughing "with him" which made no sense at all.  How could they have been laughing "with him" when he wasn't saying anything funny.