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Extraordinary Claims => Religion General Discussion => Islam => Topic started by: pr126 on September 24, 2018, 11:46:35 AM

Title: Historians examine Islam
Post by: pr126 on September 24, 2018, 11:46:35 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JukhzRNB4k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cOne46oN6g
Title: Re: Historians examine Islam
Post by: Baruch on September 24, 2018, 01:05:29 PM
Yes ... all religions have a foundation myth.  Some stories are more mythical than others.  Political parties have an ideological myth.  This is why politics and religion work so well together ;-(

This is a 10 part series.  Very good.

The Quran and the biography of Muhammad was the creation of the already existing Arabic Empire based initially in Damascus.  It was basically N Arabian, not W Arabian.
Title: Re: Historians examine Islam
Post by: Munch on September 24, 2018, 02:53:07 PM
Quote from: Baruch on September 24, 2018, 01:05:29 PM
Yes ... all religions have a foundation myth.  Some stories are more mythical than others.  Political parties have an ideological myth.  This is why politics and religion work so well together ;-(

well mostly, its about control.
Title: Re: Historians examine Islam
Post by: Baruch on September 24, 2018, 07:06:16 PM
Quote from: Munch on September 24, 2018, 02:53:07 PM
well mostly, its about control.

If you ever had teenage children, then you know how important control is ;-)
Title: Re: Historians examine Islam
Post by: Munch on September 24, 2018, 09:00:59 PM
Quote from: Baruch on September 24, 2018, 07:06:16 PM
If you ever had teenage children, then you know how important control is ;-)

teenage children.. isn't that an oxymoron?
Title: Re: Historians examine Islam
Post by: Baruch on September 24, 2018, 09:40:26 PM
Quote from: Munch on September 24, 2018, 09:00:59 PM
teenage children.. isn't that an oxymoron?

No, parents of teenagers are oxy-morons ;-)  Ask any teenager.
Title: Re: Historians examine Islam
Post by: Sal1981 on September 25, 2018, 04:27:52 AM
a recap of Islamic history I just saw:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0m9nEafBE4
Title: Re: Historians examine Islam
Post by: Baruch on September 25, 2018, 06:34:10 AM
Except it lasted more than 5 mins, and was a recap of the foundation myth.  Are you a prophet? ;-)
Title: Re: Historians examine Islam
Post by: pr126 on September 25, 2018, 07:08:23 AM
Hard to believe Brigitte's rant about Islam.

We all know that Islam is peaceful, and to state that this murderous supremacist idea is been around for 1400 years?
Preposterous.
What school or college is teaching this? None.

Our governments constantly assure us that Islam means peace.
I believe it.
Enough of this Islamophobia. It is not right.
Title: Re: Historians examine Islam
Post by: Cavebear on September 27, 2018, 01:13:37 AM
Quote from: pr126 on September 25, 2018, 07:08:23 AM
Hard to believe Brigitte's rant about Islam.

We all know that Islam is peaceful, and to state that this murderous supremacist idea is been around for 1400 years?
Preposterous.
What school or college is teaching this? None.

Our governments constantly assure us that Islam means peace.
I believe it.
Enough of this Islamophobia. It is not right.

Islam is just as stupid as christianity and judaism.
Title: Re: Historians examine Islam
Post by: pr126 on September 27, 2018, 01:28:45 AM
Thanks, Captain Obvious. We needed to know that.
Title: Re: Historians examine Islam
Post by: Cavebear on September 27, 2018, 01:41:33 AM
Quote from: pr126 on September 27, 2018, 01:28:45 AM
Thanks, Captain Obvious. We needed to know that.

It is worth reminding people sometimes that all theisms are equally idiotic.  People who think their special nonsense is unique need a kick in the ass. 
Title: Re: Historians examine Islam
Post by: pr126 on September 27, 2018, 01:58:04 AM
Well, you picked Christianity and Judaism only.
All the other religions are OK? There are hundreds more.
We need to know.
Title: Re: Historians examine Islam
Post by: Cavebear on September 27, 2018, 02:09:30 AM
Quote from: pr126 on September 27, 2018, 01:58:04 AM
Well, you picked Christianity and Judaism only.
All the other religions are OK? There are hundreds more.

I have said many times that all theisms are equally idiotic.  So I'll repeat that.

ALL THEISMS ARE EQUALLY IDIOTIC.

I can't copy the list but you can find it one http://www.humanreligions.info/religions.html (http://www.humanreligions.info/religions.html).

Just in case...  http://www.humanreligions.info/religions.html
Title: Re: Historians examine Islam
Post by: pr126 on September 27, 2018, 02:17:38 AM
Why, thank you.

Carry on.
Title: Re: Historians examine Islam
Post by: Baruch on September 27, 2018, 02:26:27 AM
Quote from: pr126 on September 27, 2018, 02:17:38 AM
Why, thank you.

Carry on.

I have to admit to using similar rhetoric.  Rather than naming names and condemning individuals I sometimes expand the list of shame to whole groups or to humanity in general.  Simply trying to avoid slander (except in the case of the Clintons).  But it probably comes across as prejudice.  Like ... how come you condemn all Nazis, when we should criticize individual behavior (not all Nazis).  So Cavebear condemns a whole swath of inanity ... rather than concentrate on just one (as you do).  But there is so much other inanity to condemn, like politics for example.
Title: Re: Historians examine Islam
Post by: pr126 on September 27, 2018, 02:37:01 AM
No, I think Americans have a very narrow world view.
The number one enemy is Christianity (to “liberals”, atheist).
This is originates from decades long of Marxist/globalist indoctrination.

The ‘live and let live’ no longer applies when raw power is sought.


Title: Re: Historians examine Islam
Post by: Baruch on September 27, 2018, 05:28:00 AM
Quote from: pr126 on September 27, 2018, 02:37:01 AM
No, I think Americans have a very narrow world view.
The number one enemy is Christianity (to “liberals”, atheist).
This is originates from decades long of Marxist/globalist indoctrination.

The ‘live and let live’ no longer applies when raw power is sought.

Yes, that is the scary part ... "... when raw power is sought ...".  When one or both sides seek that, it is game over.
Title: Re: Historians examine Islam
Post by: Cavebear on September 27, 2018, 06:54:12 AM
Quote from: pr126 on September 27, 2018, 02:17:38 AM
Why, thank you.

Carry on.

I've been here 2 years and you are just NOW catching on that I think all theisms are stupid?
Title: Re: Historians examine Islam
Post by: Minimalist on December 10, 2018, 11:02:31 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 27, 2018, 01:41:33 AM
It is worth reminding people sometimes that all theisms are equally idiotic.  People who think their special nonsense is unique need a kick in the ass. 


Aye.


(https://pics.me.me/the-difference-between-the-three-abrahamic-religions-mumbling-to-the-7048415.png)
Title: Re: Historians examine Islam
Post by: Cavebear on December 18, 2018, 08:44:30 AM
Quote from: Minimalist on December 10, 2018, 11:02:31 PM

Aye.


(https://pics.me.me/the-difference-between-the-three-abrahamic-religions-mumbling-to-the-7048415.png)

Oh THAT is really really good!  I have GOT TO pay to watch Maher on HBO again...
Title: Re: Historians examine Islam
Post by: Minimalist on December 18, 2018, 11:01:38 AM
The political situation in the Middle East in the 6th century was essentially constant warfare between the Byzantines and the Persians.  They bled each other white.  The Byzantines allied with an Arab xtian group called the Ghassanids, originally from Yemen but who migrated north to the area south of Damascus.  Somewhere along the way they became xtianized but it was a monophysite xtianity and like many other eastern groups found themselves being denounced as heretics when the dyophisites became dominant.  They were forced out of the Eastern Roman empire into the more marginal lands or, as in the case of the Nestorians, into Persia where they thrived.  But the Ghassanids didn't have to move as they were already there and eventually even the Byzantines decided that a heretic xtian was better than a stinking Persian!

So when the Byzantines and Persians had destroyed each other what remained standing, more or less intact, was a small, organized, heretical xtian state with a monophysite view of god which mimics islam's view.  Perhaps they were the basis for the early expansion out of Arabia?  After all, scholars have noted the similarities between the koran and various Syriac writings and one, Christoph Luxenbourg, has gone so far as to say that the koran makes far more sense if read in Syriac than it does in Arabic.  Once they began to expand into the territories which the Byzantines and Persians could no longer hold they may have felt the need to give themselves a "glorious history" just like all other religions.

In any case, it is not only historians who have begun to examine islam.  Archaeologists have made some interesting determinations, too.  I'll have to see if I can find them.