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Arts and Entertainment => Film, Music, Sports, and more => Topic started by: Munch on September 17, 2018, 10:31:33 AM

Title: Black Superman..
Post by: Munch on September 17, 2018, 10:31:33 AM
Blah blah henry cavill no longer superman (never liked him) ben affleck no longer batman (didn't like him either).

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/movies/ben-affleck-and-henry-cavill-reportedly-out-as-batman-and-superman/news-story/4a5c73b0854d133cda41f4065c55da72

So moving on from that, so now theres two openings to fill the roles of batman and superman, there is not, while not solid, but a lot of speculation of them having Michael B Jordan playing the next superman.

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/171/065/tumblr_lq1ipdonmj1qb6xks.jpg)

https://comicbook.com/dc/2018/09/13/michael-b-jordan-superman-val-zod-bosslogic/

I mean, i'm not really surprised in this day and age, because appealing to social justice sensibilities in this day and age matters more then keeping the characters integrity, I guess Krypton will also have to be a race of african americans, despite never having been so before in any other iteration of the story of superman.

Why does this shit keep happening? If you made black panther into a white south african instead of black, or made storm from x-men white, or luke cage white, the banshee wails online would be earth shattering, but its okay to change someones race from 'the enemy skin color' since its more inline with todays social and political culture.

And no, this despite what some might think, isn't, amazingly, a racist rant, since i care a bit more about characterization done properly then appealing to screeching social media.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZWMbhsvnTM

They pulled this bullshit with making the human torch black, and the movie tanked as one of the worst superhero movies of all time, not because of that, but really given how they made that choice its not surprise the rest of the movie bombed as well.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: pr126 on September 17, 2018, 10:41:28 AM
Self-hating whites want to vacate the gene pool?

BBC recruiting policy:  White  males need not apply. (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3621658/BBC-turn-trainees-WHITE-Job-applicants-stunned-told-corporation-wants-people-ethnic-minority-backgrounds.html)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh9jjW05h08
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Mike Cl on September 17, 2018, 11:39:56 AM
All the news that isn't the news......................who cares??????  I could care less if superman were Asian, American Indian, not American Indian, Samoan, Neanderthal, a pixie or Peter Jennings.  Who--the---fuck--cares????!!
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Blackleaf on September 17, 2018, 11:44:05 AM
I've heard about this too. Right now, these are just rumors. I don't know how much credibility these rumors have. Honestly, though, I don't really care. The DCU was a failure from the start. The actors playing Superman and Batman leaving their roles is just another nail in the coffin.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Munch on September 17, 2018, 11:46:27 AM
This is why when I die, I want to be made into ashes and said ashes blown off the cliffs of cornwall, since I don't even want my ashes left in the uk after I'm gone. Heritage means nothing to these people of today, and if white is considered so evil now it needs to be stamped out, well I'd welcome the sea.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Hydra009 on September 17, 2018, 11:49:08 AM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 17, 2018, 11:39:56 AM
All the news that isn't the news......................who cares??????  I could care less if superman were Asian, American Indian, not American Indian, Samoan, Neanderthal, a pixie or Peter Jennings.  Who--the---fuck--cares????!!
Same.  But Killmonger as Superman???!  Bizarre casting choice!  (IF he's chosen, all we know right now is that he's been considered for the role)
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Hydra009 on September 17, 2018, 11:51:50 AM
Quote from: Munch on September 17, 2018, 11:46:27 AMHeritage means nothing to these people of today, and if white is considered so evil now it needs to be stamped out
That's a hell of a take-away from a character almost universally portrayed as white *possibly* being played by a black actor.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Blackleaf on September 17, 2018, 11:55:21 AM
Quote from: Munch on September 17, 2018, 11:46:27 AM
This is why when I die, I want to be made into ashes and said ashes blown off the cliffs of cornwall, since I don't even want my ashes left in the uk after I'm gone. Heritage means nothing to these people of today, and if white is considered so evil now it needs to be stamped out, well I'd welcome the sea.

Aren't you being a bit overdramatic? We don't even know if these rumors are true. When they replace Ezra Miller with an Asian man for the Flash, give the role of Batman to a Latino man, and replace Gal Gadot with a trans black woman, then we can say the SJWs have taken over.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Baruch on September 17, 2018, 12:46:13 PM
Quote from: Munch on September 17, 2018, 11:46:27 AM
This is why when I die, I want to be made into ashes and said ashes blown off the cliffs of cornwall, since I don't even want my ashes left in the uk after I'm gone. Heritage means nothing to these people of today, and if white is considered so evil now it needs to be stamped out, well I'd welcome the sea.

Aquaman doesn't want your cremains in his ocean, bro!  Besides, dude ... you look Green to me, not White ;-)
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Baruch on September 17, 2018, 12:46:56 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on September 17, 2018, 11:55:21 AM
Aren't you being a bit overdramatic? We don't even know if these rumors are true. When they replace Ezra Miller with an Asian man for the Flash, give the role of Batman to a Latino man, and replace Gal Gadot with a trans black woman, then we can say the SJWs have taken over.

First they came for The Tick, but I wasn't a Tick fan ...
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Baruch on September 17, 2018, 12:48:13 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on September 17, 2018, 11:49:08 AM
Same.  But Killmonger as Superman???!  Bizarre casting choice!  (IF he's chosen, all we know right now is that he's been considered for the role)

Did you protest the young man chosen for Last Airbender?
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: GrinningYMIR on September 17, 2018, 01:17:16 PM
DC’s universe is blowing up anyway, the only really successful one as of late is WW, so they’ll try anything they can to pump juice into it, and if making Superman Black gets more tickets sold then they can claim to be pro diversity while making a profit. All they care about after the disaster that was JL
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Unbeliever on September 17, 2018, 01:19:39 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 17, 2018, 11:39:56 AM
All the news that isn't the news......................who cares??????  I could care less if superman were Asian, American Indian, not American Indian, Samoan, Neanderthal, a pixie or Peter Jennings.  Who--the---fuck--cares????!!
Hey, if James West can be black, why not superheroes? I see no problem, so, like you, I couldn't care less.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Munch on September 17, 2018, 01:37:16 PM
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on September 17, 2018, 01:17:16 PM
DC’s universe is blowing up anyway, the only really successful one as of late is WW, so they’ll try anything they can to pump juice into it, and if making Superman Black gets more tickets sold then they can claim to be pro diversity while making a profit. All they care about after the disaster that was JL

which is exactly why the movies they made tanked and why marvel movies are still box office gold. Marvel is sticking to keeping the characters people have loved for years as close to the comic books as possible, while still having decent writing, actors and effects. They out thought into every detail, whole dc was only concerned with outdoing marvel.

If they need to result to trying to appeal to minorities and social groups in order to get bums in seats rather then trying to actually write a good script, get good actors that fit the roles, and giving the genuine fans what they want, then of course its going to crash and burn.

Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Hydra009 on September 17, 2018, 02:02:47 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 17, 2018, 01:19:39 PM
Hey, if James West can be black, why not superheroes? I see no problem, so, like you, I couldn't care less.
Uggh, I really don't want to open up this can of worms, but here goes.  There's basically three perspectives on this:

1) Sticklers for authentic adaption:  these people want the adaption (movie) to be as true to the source material (comics) as possible.  There's some wiggle room of course - no one was unhappy that the Vulture got a face lift and there's a mixed reaction to Nick Fury (imo he captured the character's no-nonsense attitude and badassery better than almost any alternative).  Stan Lee is arguably in this camp since he insisted the Peter Parker be white and straight, like he is in the comics.

These are the sorts of people who insist that period pieces have a cast that most accurately reflects the racial populations of the time.  You wouldn't expect a film set in feudal Japan to have a cast that isn't Japanese, would you?

2) SJWs: simply want more 'diversity' in comics movies.  Full stop.  Little, if any, regard for anything else.  These are the sort of people who said that Solo bombed because the lead was a white male. *cringe*

3) Moderates:  these people want to balance authenticity with a recognition that the source material was written with a paltry number of non-white characters and few female leads (this has changed over the decades, but the big box office draws were initially focused on DC's/Marvel's oldest characters, and largely still are).  So what do you say to non-white actors who want in on superhero movies?  "Sorry, you're not white enough."  That's kinda screwed up.

These people are most likely to allow a lot of leeway in terms of casting without going full SJW.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: GSOgymrat on September 17, 2018, 02:19:39 PM
Superman, who is an extraterrestrial, having dark skin doesn't bother me. I like Jason Momoa as Aquaman even though he isn't blond and fair. Samuel L. Jackson is great as Nick Fury. I think Idris Elba would make a good James Bond. The race of a fictional character doesn't really matter to me unless race is an essential part of that's character's story, e.g. Storm or 1940's Captain America. Neither the Left (celebrate diversity) nor the Right (respect heritage) wants to live in a color-blind society, they both really, really care about race. Conservatives want the same stories repeated, progressives want to challenge the status quo.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Hydra009 on September 17, 2018, 02:36:05 PM
Quote from: Munch on September 17, 2018, 01:37:16 PM
which is exactly why the movies they made tanked and why marvel movies are still box office gold. Marvel is sticking to keeping the characters people have loved for years as close to the comic books as possible, while still having decent writing, actors and effects. They out thought into every detail, whole dc was only concerned with outdoing marvel.
I dunno about thinking out every detail, they have a quite a few improvised scenes/lines.  Thankfully, they worked with the rest of the movie to the point most people wouldn't know the difference.

But yes, the actors preparing for the roles is very different.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1b/40/a1/1b40a11e572324febfec4aa19fef93e0.jpg)

Marvel actors and directors seem to have a better command on the source material (IIRC, comics were banned on the set of Suicide Squad).

Marvel has the patience to do standalone films then bring them together in crossovers, while DC just tries to slap them on the screen and hope everything turns out okay (spoiler: it does not turn out okay).
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Hydra009 on September 17, 2018, 02:53:51 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on September 17, 2018, 02:19:39 PMI like Jason Momoa as Aquaman even though he isn't blond and fair.
Imo, his Hawaiian heritage (and strong swimming abilities) made him a better candidate than he otherwise would be.  Now that's a guy who can successfully sell himself as a guy who knows his way around the sea.

QuoteThe race of a fictional character doesn't really matter to me unless race is an essential part of that's character's story, e.g. Storm or 1940's Captain America.
I agree, though deciding which character's race is essential to that character seems pretty arbitrary.

QuoteNeither the Left (celebrate diversity) nor the Right (respect heritage) wants to live in a color-blind society, they both really, really care about race. Conservatives want the same stories repeated, progressives want to challenge the status quo.
I dunno, I would really like to get to the point that race doesn't matter, much like being gay doesn't matter all that much now.

Hopefully, by that point our popular fictional characters will more closely reflect the general public, rendering this whole kerfuffle moot.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Munch on September 17, 2018, 05:31:49 PM
Race, gender and sexuality don't matter.. When your either making new characters or using ore established characters who are of those groups.
Changing a long time characters gender, skin or sexuality from their long time pre-established qualities if just forcing diversity for the sake of it.

Something like miles morales spiderman worked because it was a completely different character, he wasn't peter parker given black face. Something like john steward green lantern in justice league unlimited worked because the green lantern is an organisation and the title of green lantern is a soldier rank. These work because your taking character concepts while still gibing respect to the original (as it stands john steward is probably my favorite green lantern for this reason).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IEtdP4BbM5Q

Infact if they made a new green lantern movie about john steward, I'd be all for that. You could have Michael B Jordan or idris elba in the role.

But just making superman black face because trying to forcefully appeal to diversity is just shallow
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on September 17, 2018, 05:47:53 PM
My mantra is simple. If you're going to change anything from the source material, USE IT. Character integrity and history matters. Don't violate either unless you make use of it in the story â€" otherwise, it's just pointless, and that you think it's pointless (because you're doing it for such a shallow reason), and it's going to be obvious to everyone that it's pointless and gratuitous. I wouldn't object to making Superman black (after all, Krypton has an equator, too) if they used the fact that now he looks like a minority and would be treated as such to give an interesting take on the Man of Steel. How would the (white) Kents raise their black alien son? Let's face it, in that situation it's going to be obvious he is adopted, which might raise… questions. How would he be taught to deal with the racism that's undoubtedly coming his way? How would the US react that their Big Blue Boy Scout, the greatest citizen of the US, is black and not white? How would Lex Luthor react to that shit?

Even if he ends up as our recognizable Boy Scout in Red Outside Undies, the journey is going to be very different and I'd like to see how that plays out.

If you're doing it to please the SJW's forget it, because it's going to be terrible. DC doesn't learn that the story and character matter, and that's why they keep making terrible shit, and if they go through with this, it's going to be terrible just by going by DC's past track record. A miko can dream, though.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Munch on September 17, 2018, 05:53:54 PM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on September 17, 2018, 05:47:53 PM
My mantra is simple. If you're going to change anything from the source material, USE IT. Character integrity and history matters. Don't violate either unless you make use of it in the story â€" otherwise, it's just pointless, and that you think it's pointless (because you're doing it for such a shallow reason), and it's going to be obvious to everyone that it's pointless and gratuitous. I wouldn't object to making Superman black (after all, Krypton has an equator, too) if they used the fact that now he looks like a minority and would be treated as such to give an interesting take on the Man of Steel. How would the (white) Kents raise their black alien son? Let's face it, in that situation it's going to be obvious he is adopted, which might raise… questions. How would he be taught to deal with the racism that's undoubtedly coming his way? How would the US react that their Big Blue Boy Scout, the greatest citizen of the US, is black and not white? How would Lex Luthor react to that shit?

Even if he ends up as our recognizable Boy Scout in Red Outside Undies, the journey is going to be very different and I'd like to see how that plays out.

If you're doing it to please the SJW's forget it, because it's going to be terrible. DC doesn't learn that the story and character matter, and that's why they keep making terrible shit, and if they go through with this, it's going to be terrible just by going by DC's past track record. A miko can dream, though.

see this what you said is honestly brilliant and right on point.

It isn't just an easy case of making superman black, because a black man growing up in american, raised by white parents, would create a completely different backstory for him to the one clark kent has. You would need to develop a story like that heavily first, because you know, we've had tv shows of showing clark kent growing up and learning about his powers and his place in the world, but throwing in a race change, and acting like it would be exactly the same thing, is just lazy writing.

I imagine they could make a graphic novel about something like that, after all, they made superman red sun, an alternative timeline where he fell in russia, not the US, and developed into a completely different person because of it. That as a stand alone story however.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: PickelledEggs on September 17, 2018, 05:54:32 PM
Yeah. It's so unrealistic to have a fictional alien to be a certain skin pigmentation.

YOU IDIOTS JUST WANT A WHITE GENOCIDE!
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Munch on September 17, 2018, 06:03:54 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on September 17, 2018, 05:54:32 PM
Yeah. It's so unrealistic to have a fictional alien to be a certain skin pigmentation.

YOU IDIOTS JUST WANT A WHITE GENOCIDE!

apparently some of us care more about character integrity more then others.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: PickelledEggs on September 17, 2018, 06:11:15 PM
Quote from: Munch on September 17, 2018, 06:03:54 PM
apparently some of us care more about character integrity more then others.
Than*

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: PickelledEggs on September 17, 2018, 06:18:08 PM
I'm mostly kidding.

I think it's kind of ridiculous that you guys think this rumor is anything more than a rumor. It's barely even a rumor and I'm pretty sure it's just a trollish response to people reacting to the new James Bond casting to see how ruffled they can get their racist feathers in
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Munch on September 17, 2018, 06:57:50 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on September 17, 2018, 06:18:08 PM
I'm mostly kidding.

I think it's kind of ridiculous that you guys think this rumor is anything more than a rumor. It's barely even a rumor and I'm pretty sure it's just a trollish response to people reacting to the new James Bond casting to see how ruffled they can get their racist feathers in

In the current era we're living in where famous characters can be swapped out for a gender/race swapped version of themselves and expected to be taken seriously, there is a genuine reason to be suspicious

Though to be honest, I would think even people a race swapped version of superman would appeal to them, should be extremely worried at the prospects of it being a real thing, since DCs current track record for how they've handed dc movies, having a race swapped version of superman presented in an awful movie that gets panned would just created an even worse image for such a change.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: PickelledEggs on September 17, 2018, 07:00:19 PM
Quote from: Munch on September 17, 2018, 06:57:50 PM
In the current era we're living in where famous characters can be swapped out for a gender/race swapped version of themselves and expected to be taken seriously, there is a genuine reason to be suspicious
Can you name 3 comic book characters?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Munch on September 17, 2018, 07:07:51 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on September 17, 2018, 07:00:19 PM
Can you name 3 comic book characters?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Thor, Wolverine, captain america, iron man, human torch, Heimdall, Mandarin, Valkyrie, Kingpin, Baron Mordo, Domino.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Unbeliever on September 17, 2018, 07:16:34 PM
That's not 3, it's 11 - you fail! ;-P
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: GSOgymrat on September 17, 2018, 07:44:37 PM
Quote from: Munch on September 17, 2018, 07:07:51 PM
Thor, Wolverine, captain america, iron man, human torch, Heimdall, Mandarin, Valkyrie, Kingpin, Baron Mordo, Domino.

Speaking of Domino and actors whose race is inconsistent with the source material, I thought Zazie Beetz did a great job in Deadpool 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgKjin2HnL4
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Baruch on September 17, 2018, 07:54:46 PM
Quote from: Munch on September 17, 2018, 05:53:54 PM
see this what you said is honestly brilliant and right on point.

It isn't just an easy case of making superman black, because a black man growing up in american, raised by white parents, would create a completely different backstory for him to the one clark kent has. You would need to develop a story like that heavily first, because you know, we've had tv shows of showing clark kent growing up and learning about his powers and his place in the world, but throwing in a race change, and acting like it would be exactly the same thing, is just lazy writing.

I imagine they could make a graphic novel about something like that, after all, they made superman red sun, an alternative timeline where he fell in russia, not the US, and developed into a completely different person because of it. That as a stand alone story however.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Red_Son

How about the non-canon where Superman is British ;-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_True_Brit

Yeah, there is a Black version where his secret identity is President of the US (aka Barak Obama).
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Munch on September 17, 2018, 09:01:54 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on September 17, 2018, 07:44:37 PM
Speaking of Domino and actors whose race is inconsistent with the source material, I thought Zazie Beetz did a great job in Deadpool 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgKjin2HnL4

Really in something like this a character like domino, unlike say wolverine, superman, hulk, spiderman, she's always been a lesser known character with little coverage. This gives more of an opening for a character like her to have someone who isn't of the original characters ethnicity like in the comics, as long as you had a good actress playing the part.

I'd say the same applies to a character like Heimdall, Baron Mordo and Valkyrie, there less center stage to main players like thor or dr strange, so it isn't as integral as getting someone to hit the mark for a main character like mentioned.
I would argue the same point for someone picked to play the role for Luke Cage, if you had a white guy playing Luke Cage, I'd be like.. wtf? You can't do that. Same with Storm, you can't have a white girl playing the role of an african goddess, because they are very much integral to their characters.

Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Sal1981 on September 17, 2018, 09:22:10 PM
Idc about the ethnicity of the actors, I care more about how solid the story is. DC movies bottom out in that department. Only recent DC movie that has stood out for me was Man of Steel (2013), don't get why Wonder Woman (2017) got the praise it got because it seemed to me as a pretty bland origin story. I guess people have different tastes, is all. For instance I think the movie Transcendence (2014) with Johnny Depp was sublime, but it bombed at rotten tomatoes. I've watched some reviews of that movie, and it seemed like people didn't really get the story or the deeper themes glanced over their collective heads.

Someone that rated Transcendence 4½ stars:[spoiler]
Quote from: Julian F from Rotten TomatoesI think the reviews of this film are telling as to the intellectual capacity of its audience. It is another far-reaching film that obviously soars over the heads of many casual viewers. The fact the most critics think this is just another sermon against artificial intelligence and that the ending is just another mundane victory of man over machine goes to show how ignorant they are. If you got caught up in that version of the narrative, I suggest you watch it again and pay attention to the subtlety. The film tackled an exceptional task of withholding any concrete indication of the humanity or lack thereof of its transcendent AI until the very end, which allowed for the exploration of important themes about fear, sacrifice, autonomy and love within the context of a truly transcendent level of possibility and consciousness. If it felt robotic at times, I feel this was necessary to maintain the shroud until the final reveal. Perhaps this could have been executed with a little more nuance, but given the scope of its objective I found the film to be a great success.
[/spoiler]


While I think the movie Ex Machina, with a corny "prisoner in a cabin in the woods" story got so much unrewarded praise that I'm baffled at its score at rotten tomatoes and reading some of the reviews from both critics and audience just verifies my view that people don't get the stupid story. One critic even mentioned its gender? It's a fucking robot, you moron.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Mike Cl on September 17, 2018, 10:17:02 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on September 17, 2018, 07:00:19 PM
Can you name 3 comic book characters?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
My three favs are Red Ryder; Scrooge McDuck (who doesn't like the Beagle Boys???); and Baby Huey.  A black Red Ryder would work, but I think Little Beaver would have to stay American Indian.
I suppose Scrooge could work as a mallard or a mud hen--and who knows exactly what Baby Huey is.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Hydra009 on September 18, 2018, 12:00:11 AM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on September 17, 2018, 05:47:53 PMI wouldn't object to making Superman black (after all, Krypton has an equator, too) if they used the fact that now he looks like a minority and would be treated as such to give an interesting take on the Man of Steel. How would the (white) Kents raise their black alien son? Let's face it, in that situation it's going to be obvious he is adopted, which might raise… questions.
A white family adopts an black baby they found in the Kansas countryside in the 1940s?  Hell yes that raises questions!  It'd be scandalous.  Clark would probably get bullied, if not worse.  And the Kents would be lucky if they weren't completely ostracized.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Mike Cl on September 18, 2018, 01:43:01 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on September 18, 2018, 12:00:11 AM
A white family adopts an black baby they found in the Kansas countryside in the 1940s?  Hell yes that raises questions!  It'd be scandalous.  Clark would probably get bullied, if not worse.  And the Kents would be lucky if they weren't completely ostracized.
Or what if a black family finds and adopts a white baby in Kansas in the 40's?  Would that raise questions or be scandalous?  Would it be like the Jerk?  Or Moses??
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Baruch on September 18, 2018, 05:44:58 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on September 18, 2018, 12:00:11 AM
A white family adopts an black baby they found in the Kansas countryside in the 1940s?  Hell yes that raises questions!  It'd be scandalous.  Clark would probably get bullied, if not worse.  And the Kents would be lucky if they weren't completely ostracized.

Once you open the narrative to parallel multiple universes (as the comics did with multiple versions of the same superheroes) there is no going back.  It is super chaos.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Baruch on September 18, 2018, 05:48:34 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on September 18, 2018, 12:00:11 AM
A white family adopts an black baby they found in the Kansas countryside in the 1940s?  Hell yes that raises questions!  It'd be scandalous.  Clark would probably get bullied, if not worse.  And the Kents would be lucky if they weren't completely ostracized.

Same idea, but in the parallel universe where the Confederacy wins the US Civil War?  Django Unchained with super powers!!  Liberals would make messes in their panties.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on September 18, 2018, 10:21:46 AM
Rebooting the movies to have a black Superman isn't going to stop them from being shit. The Marvel movies started out pretty shit as well; what changed that was hiring on better writers and directors.

You want a black Superman, fine. You want it to be better than the garbage white version? Put fuckin' J.J. Abrams in the director's chair with a screenplay by Nicholas Meyer. That'll be a good fucking movie.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Mike Cl on September 18, 2018, 12:35:23 PM
Quote from: Baruch on September 18, 2018, 05:48:34 AM
Same idea, but in the parallel universe where the Confederacy wins the US Civil War?  Django Unchained with super powers!!  Liberals would make messes in their panties.
Harry Turtledove has a bunch of alternative histories--including the Civil War and WWII.  Alternative history novels are not at all rare; and they don't have the effect on me that you claim they would.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: the_antithesis on September 18, 2018, 12:47:40 PM
I think it has less to do with SJWs or any of that bullshit and more to do with "this character isn't making us any money. How can we get it to make us money?" It's like that documentary I saw on professional wrestling that briefly outlined the way they develop a character for a performer to see if people respond and then change it until they find something that works. I recently watched a youtube video (http://"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QYIoKtTEkY") on this topic that stated that Superman is popular with African Americans. I don't know if that's true, but if it is, then a black Superman is just taking the character to the audience that actually appreciates it.

Personally, I do not care so long as the movie is good.

That's not true. I don't even care if the movie is good. I'm one of those super stickler comic nerds who hates, hates, hates the way real people look in those silly outfits and thinks that super heroes should only ever be drawn. Which is why I've skipped most of these movies. I do like the Guardian of the Galaxy film. Pity about the third one. I saw Batman v Superman just to see the dumpster fire, and was disappointed in it as a shitty movie. I saw Deadpool, that was okay. I'm planning to see Shazam because I have a long-running love for the character for no good reason. I may watch Aquaman because that will either be epic or a dumpster fire on an oil rig. And that's about it. Didn't see Wonder Woman. Didn't see Black Panther. Didn't see Infinity War. Do not give a shit. I am puzzled to death why anyone else does. It may be that when they saw the Dark Knight trilogy or the Raimi Spider-Man movies they actually like them. I didn't. So I learned that these movies aren't for me and it's okay if they exist for those whom they are for. But I don't have to go see them, either. Kind of like gay porn. I recommend this mind set. It solves so many of life's little problems.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Baruch on September 18, 2018, 12:53:30 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 18, 2018, 12:35:23 PM
Harry Turtledove has a bunch of alternative histories--including the Civil War and WWII.  Alternative history novels are not at all rare; and they don't have the effect on me that you claim they would.

How about the one by Newt Gingrich where the South wins the Civil War.  Triggered yet?

I find this series creative, yes it involves inexplicable time travel, but don't have time for it yet ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1632_(novel)
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: SGOS on September 18, 2018, 02:19:30 PM
I liked Henry Cavill as Superman.  I thought he was the best one yet.  I'm not sure a black Superman is going to help DC change their luck.  A better idea might be to introduce an entirely new Black Superhero of equal stature, and utilize the black culture that already exists to help define him.  There could be some interesting origin story scenarios that are potentially inspiring and compelling.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Baruch on September 18, 2018, 07:16:45 PM
Quote from: SGOS on September 18, 2018, 02:19:30 PM
I liked Henry Cavill as Superman.  I thought he was the best one yet.  I'm not sure a black Superman is going to help DC change their luck.  A better idea might be to introduce an entirely new Black Superhero of equal stature, and utilize the black culture that already exists to help define him.  There could be some interesting origin story scenarios that are potentially inspiring and compelling.

Wakanda wasn't good enough ;-)
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Shiranu on September 18, 2018, 11:52:05 PM
Imagine it being 2018, and you think Superman potentially being black means your race is on the verge of annihilation and all hope is lost.

What a time to be alive.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Shiranu on September 18, 2018, 11:52:42 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on September 17, 2018, 07:44:37 PM
Speaking of Domino and actors whose race is inconsistent with the source material, I thought Zazie Beetz did a great job in Deadpool 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgKjin2HnL4

Dude, she killed it. I absolutely loved her portrayal.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Cavebear on September 19, 2018, 12:20:40 AM
Quote from: pr126 on September 17, 2018, 10:41:28 AM
Self-hating whites want to vacate the gene pool?

BBC recruiting policy:  White  males need not apply. (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3621658/BBC-turn-trainees-WHITE-Job-applicants-stunned-told-corporation-wants-people-ethnic-minority-backgrounds.html)

Its not "self-hating whites want to vacate the gene pool".  It inclusion.  I a few black kids can imagine themselves as Superman or some latino kid dreaming he could be Batman or an asian girl seeing herself as Wonder Woman, where is the harm? 

I experienced a bit of internal  surprise when Nick Fury (originally White of the WWII "Howling Commandos" - more stereotypical racist comic you could never find) and later Director of SHIELD was suddenly a black guy in the movies.  I got over it pretty quickly.  Its the character, not the race or gender that matters. 

We are all originally "Out Of Africa".  Skin color changes along the way north lightened our skins to collect more sunlight for Vitamin D.  We are all the same people genetically.  If you want to argue about national and regional cultures as some better and some less successful, go for that.  But not skin color.  And not gender.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Baruch on September 19, 2018, 01:24:20 AM
True, we are all Africans.  But also dumb monkeys.  We divide on the silliest of pretexts.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on September 19, 2018, 08:59:27 AM
It's not that I "want" a black Superman. I could scream my preferences for a Superman from the highest roofs and it wouldn't make a whit of difference. Ultimately, Superman is DC's to revive or ruin. If DC wants to make Superman black, they'll make him black, for better or for worse.

It's just… I want it to be for the better. I want a new Superman film to succeed. Superman is an American icon, and he is the shining beacon of what we could be. It's aggravating to see the current caretakers of Siegel and Shuster's legacy just fumble things so badly with their flagship character, and that's with the white portrayals. Making Superman black stinks of a recolor â€" just like your old Superman, but BLACK! When Hasbro did it for Transformers, it didn't end at the recolor: a recolor came with its own history and personality â€" even for what nominally was the same character. DC needs the same attitude.

TL;DR â€" We're not here for the colors, or the genders; we're here for the characters, the plot, the drama, the action, the emotions, and so on.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Cavebear on September 19, 2018, 09:37:31 AM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on September 19, 2018, 08:59:27 AM
It's not that I "want" a black Superman. I could scream my preferences for a Superman from the highest roofs and it wouldn't make a whit of difference. Ultimately, Superman is DC's to revive or ruin. If DC wants to make Superman black, they'll make him black, for better or for worse.

It's just… I want it to be for the better. I want a new Superman film to succeed. Superman is an American icon, and he is the shining beacon of what we could be. It's aggravating to see the current caretakers of Siegel and Shuster's legacy just fumble things so badly with their flagship character, and that's with the white portrayals. Making Superman black stinks of a recolor â€" just like your old Superman, but BLACK! When Hasbro did it for Transformers, it didn't end at the recolor: a recolor came with its own history and personality â€" even for what nominally was the same character. DC needs the same attitude.

TL;DR â€" We're not here for the colors, or the genders; we're here for the characters, the plot, the drama, the action, the emotions, and so on.

Superman is not an American icon.  He is an alien icon and sent here for HIS (her) benefit.  And he isn't a beacon "of what we can be".  He is an icon of what HE (she) can be.  The S is the symbol of "Hope".  His (her) hope of survival beyond the death of HIS (her) planet.

Just a thought...
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Hydra009 on September 19, 2018, 11:19:11 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 19, 2018, 09:37:31 AM
Superman is not an American icon.  He is an alien icon and sent here for HIS (her) benefit.  And he isn't a beacon "of what we can be".  He is an icon of what HE (she) can be.
Lex Luthor, is that you?  :P
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Cavebear on September 19, 2018, 11:27:10 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on September 19, 2018, 11:19:11 AM
Lex Luthor, is that you?  :P

No.  I have slightly more hair.  On the other hand, I am, apparently, smarter.  I don't make criminal plans that have attracted his (her) attention.  Yet.  The secret of being a criminal mastermind is that no one knows you are.  We serious masterminds play in the "unknown unknowns"...
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Blackleaf on September 19, 2018, 12:07:38 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 19, 2018, 09:37:31 AM
Superman is not an American icon.  He is an alien icon and sent here for HIS (her) benefit.  And he isn't a beacon "of what we can be".  He is an icon of what HE (she) can be.  The S is the symbol of "Hope".  His (her) hope of survival beyond the death of HIS (her) planet.

Just a thought...

Superman wasn't born on Earth, but he was raised in America since he was a baby. This world is all that he knows, and it's the world he identifies with. Contrary to his portrayal in the movies, he isn't some unapproachable god being. He considers himself one of us. He doesn't represent hope because he is the last surviving member of the Kryptonian race, but he is the hope of mankind.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Cavebear on September 19, 2018, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on September 19, 2018, 12:07:38 PM
Superman wasn't born on Earth, but he was raised in America since he was a baby. This world is all that he knows, and it's the world he identifies with. Contrary to his portrayal in the movies, he isn't some unapproachable god being. He considers himself one of us. He doesn't represent hope because he is the last surviving member of the Kryptonian race, but he is the hope of mankind.

He was taught by messages from his parents on the journey here and later as an adult.  He is essentially a god on Earth by dint of his powers.  His "S" is the Krypton symbol of Hope" and that hope was that he would be powerful on Earth.  In the earlier comics he became all-powerful (except with bizarre and stupid forms of Kryptonite which made the comic a joke for decades) .

I will grant that he was raised American with 1949's values.  His closest analog is Captain America, I suppose, but far stronger.  Invincible even.    That was actually the original concept. 

Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Munch on September 19, 2018, 12:28:36 PM
What's that CB, your saying an outsider can't become an American icon? Because their an outsider?

I'm really disappointed in you.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Cavebear on September 19, 2018, 12:33:33 PM
Quote from: Munch on September 19, 2018, 12:28:36 PM
What's that CB, your saying an outsider can't become an American icon? Because their an outsider?

I'm really disappointed in you.

I'm saying that Superman  was sent to Earth FOR HIS OWN SUCCESS AND SURVIVAL and landed in the US where he accepted cultural norms of the locale.  Sounds like a successful illegal immigrant to me.  What would Trump make of such a person?
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Munch on September 19, 2018, 12:41:08 PM
Why don't you ask him on twitter.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Blackleaf on September 19, 2018, 12:45:15 PM
We have laws on this planet. Aliens can't just land here and make themselves at home. They have to go through due process. Superman is stealing American super hero jobs. Furthermore, he's a refugee from a dying planet. We don't even know who he is. For all we know, he could be a terrorist. He must be deported from this planet.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Cavebear on September 19, 2018, 12:47:13 PM
Quote from: Munch on September 19, 2018, 12:41:08 PM
Why don't you ask him on twitter.

Presidente Wannabe For Life Trump declined my meeting request.  Whereof is this "twitter" you  speak so confidently of?
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Cavebear on September 19, 2018, 12:49:12 PM
Quote from: Blackleaf on September 19, 2018, 12:45:15 PM
We have laws on this planet. Aliens can't just land here and make themselves at home. They have to go through due process. Superman is stealing American super hero jobs. Furthermore, he's a refugee from a dying planet. We don't even know who he is. For all we know, he could be a terrorist. He must be deported from this planet.

My earlier concern perfectly expressed... 
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Baruch on September 19, 2018, 07:23:07 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 19, 2018, 11:27:10 AM
No.  I have slightly more hair.  On the other hand, I am, apparently, smarter.  I don't make criminal plans that have attracted his (her) attention.  Yet.  The secret of being a criminal mastermind is that no one knows you are.  We serious masterminds play in the "unknown unknowns"...

So you are a Rothschild then? ;-)
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Draconic Aiur on September 19, 2018, 07:40:30 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on September 19, 2018, 09:37:31 AM
Superman is not an American icon.  He is an alien icon and sent here for HIS (her) benefit.  And he isn't a beacon "of what we can be".  He is an icon of what HE (she) can be.  The S is the symbol of "Hope".  His (her) hope of survival beyond the death of HIS (her) planet.

Just a thought...

Superman is a man not a "her".  Superhuman can only be white. Yes I'm a little racist. Other than that cultural appropriation is shit.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Draconic Aiur on September 19, 2018, 07:46:26 PM
Am I more racist to want historically accurate movies and TV shows? PC culture thinks so.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Shiranu on September 19, 2018, 08:07:07 PM
QuoteSuperhuman can only be white.

That is perhaps the dumbest thing I have read on here, and this is a forum that is visited by Christian trolls and Pr.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Unbeliever on September 19, 2018, 08:12:07 PM
OK, black Superman, naked Batman, what's next?


https://screenrant.com/batman-penis-naked-nude-comic-damned/
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Munch on September 19, 2018, 08:20:33 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on September 19, 2018, 08:07:07 PM
That is perhaps the dumbest thing I have read on here, and this is a forum that is visited by Christian trolls and Pr.

Storm from the x-men can only be black
Luke cage can only be black
Falcon can only be black
Blade can only be black
Sunfire can only be japanese
Jubilee can only be chinese-american
Katana can only be japanese

How would you feel if any of these characters were made white?
Would it piss you off, claiming its removing a core aspect of their character, even if they keep the same personality?
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Shiranu on September 19, 2018, 08:30:32 PM
Quote from: Munch on September 19, 2018, 08:20:33 PM
Storm from the x-men can only be black
Luke cage can only be black
Falcon can only be black
Blade can only be black
Sunfire can only be japanese
Jubilee can only be chinese-american
Katana can only be japanese

How would you feel if any of these characters were made white?
Would it piss you off, claiming its removing a core aspect of their character, even if they keep the same personality?

Firstly, thanks for proving him wrong for me.

Several of them I would be indifferent about. Katana and Luke Cage would be problematic, but as for the rest it... yeah, again, it would be something I would be largely indifferent about because their culture is not a key component of their character. Sunfire would also be weird, since his power comes from the bombing of Hiroshima... not too many white people there at the time.


Surprised you didn't use Black Panther, because that is one you coulda had a, "GOTCHYA!" moment on me because that one I would unequivocally be opposed to having him portrayed as white.

QuoteWould it piss you off...

Not really, no. I try not to let comic book characters being changed fundamentally shatter my world view...
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Munch on September 19, 2018, 08:39:36 PM
And yet there you are, getting pissed off at Draconic Aiur, since he hit a nerve to dare suggest superman, a character who's been one ethnicity since his creation, remain that way.

Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Baruch on September 19, 2018, 08:40:00 PM
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on September 19, 2018, 07:40:30 PM
Superman is a man not a "her".  Superhuman can only be white. Yes I'm a little racist. Other than that cultural appropriation is shit.

Non-canon Black Superman was ... Barak Obama.  My do people miss him!  Maybe they can portray a young Hillary as Batgirl ;-)  She certainly is batty.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on September 19, 2018, 09:44:44 PM
Quote from: Munch on September 19, 2018, 08:39:36 PM
And yet there you are, getting pissed off at Draconic Aiur, since he hit a nerve to dare suggest superman, a character who's been one ethnicity since his creation, remain that way.
Superman is Kryptonian. What that means in terms of his skin color, that's up in the air and not in any way fixed. Superman is not any earthly ethnicity at all â€" not white, not black, and not asian as we understand these terms. He's not even a human â€" not Homo sapiens, not even Mammalia, Amniota, Chordata or even Eukaryota. In fact, he's not even in the Earthly tree of life at all, even if he does resemble a particular species on it very closely.

As I said before, Superman is DC's to change or keep the same. I'm all for keeping Superman the same unless they plan to do something interesting with the change.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: GrinningYMIR on September 19, 2018, 10:12:33 PM
Ah this point they wouldn’t be doin it based on an actor but in order to say “look at us we’re prgressive and diverse give us more money!”
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Draconic Aiur on September 20, 2018, 01:05:00 AM
Quote from: Shiranu on September 19, 2018, 08:07:07 PM
That is perhaps the dumbest thing I have read on here, and this is a forum that is visited by Christian trolls and Pr.

See look PC member thinks Im dumb so therefor I win!
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: pr126 on September 20, 2018, 01:13:14 AM
Guys, Superman does not exist. It is not real. It is a fiction. Get a grip.

Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Draconic Aiur on September 20, 2018, 01:26:41 AM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on September 19, 2018, 09:44:44 PM
Superman is Kryptonian. What that means in terms of his skin color, that's up in the air and not in any way fixed. Superman is not any earthly ethnicity at all â€" not white, not black, and not asian as we understand these terms. He's not even a human â€" not Homo sapiens, not even Mammalia, Amniota, Chordata or even Eukaryota. In fact, he's not even in the Earthly tree of life at all, even if he does resemble a particular species on it very closely.

As I said before, Superman is DC's to change or keep the same. I'm all for keeping Superman the same unless they plan to do something interesting with the change.

And yet the comics depict him being closer to Caucasian then anything. Could be I don't know the author's vision. I don't know about you but Marvel's Jack Kirby was Jewish and thy mad Captain America a Nazi out of spit because he was a whit male "American patriot" and whit or Jewish people cant be people, cant they in our shitty PC world.

Now Yes, cultural appropriation is shit and promotes racism, but it shows that people want their historical and historical fiction characters to be displayed as they were before all this white washing began.

Their are actors that don't fit the criteria like a black Gwnavere in the TV show Merlin but even though its displayed as equality of cast it's still goes against history and I have seen people shit on mythologies and fiction saying their fiction so we can do whatever we want.

But its the culture presentation of the characters portrayed on the tv and big screen that matters not that you want to cosplay as batman vn though you might b Asian.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Mike Cl on September 20, 2018, 09:21:21 AM
Quote from: pr126 on September 20, 2018, 01:13:14 AM
Guys, Superman does not exist. It is not real. It is a fiction. Get a grip.
Just like god, eh?? Or Jesus?? Of course.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Baruch on September 20, 2018, 12:08:07 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 20, 2018, 09:21:21 AM
Just like god, eh?? Or Jesus?? Of course.

You like your fiction, I like my fiction.  And yes, superheroes are exactly what ancient pagans, would have for deities if they were here right now.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Mike Cl on September 20, 2018, 12:37:42 PM
Quote from: Baruch on September 20, 2018, 12:08:07 PM
You like your fiction, I like my fiction.  And yes, superheroes are exactly what ancient pagans, would have for deities if they were here right now.
I quite agree.  And as long as you don't try to force your fiction on me--or claim it is not fiction--that works for me.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Draconic Aiur on September 20, 2018, 01:23:29 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 20, 2018, 12:37:42 PM
I quite agree.  And as long as you don't try to force your fiction on me--or claim it is not fiction--that works for me.

Uh duh it is fiction but it's historical fantasy we love
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Mike Cl on September 20, 2018, 02:18:14 PM
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on September 20, 2018, 01:23:29 PM
Uh duh it is fiction but it's historical fantasy we love
I like historical fantasy as well.  Have you read any of Turtledove's works?  Google him and he has quite an amazing list of fantasy/alternative history novels he's written. 
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Draconic Aiur on September 20, 2018, 02:35:37 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 20, 2018, 02:18:14 PM
I like historical fantasy as well.  Have you read any of Turtledove's works?  Google him and he has quite an amazing list of fantasy/alternative history novels he's written. 

l was saying past fantasy that can b high fantasy
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Sal1981 on September 20, 2018, 02:42:49 PM
I still don't care whether Superman is white or not, but if DC is doing this because of some PC bullshit, I reckon the franchise is gonna tank further.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Baruch on September 20, 2018, 07:22:18 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 20, 2018, 12:37:42 PM
I quite agree.  And as long as you don't try to force your fiction on me--or claim it is not fiction--that works for me.

All political agendas are fiction, whether or not they have a religious tie in or not.  The whole political narrative of the last three years is fiction, as written by guys on drugs.  It is bad enough the spooks control the narratives, but now the spooks are on LSD.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: SoldierofFortune on September 20, 2018, 07:27:46 PM
What about " black barbie girl "...

Capitalism finally succeed at selling black barbies at toy stores and markets...to black gurls who once upon a time were slaves in amarica
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Baruch on September 20, 2018, 07:36:29 PM
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on September 20, 2018, 07:27:46 PM
What about " black barbie girl "...

Capitalism finally succeed at selling black barbies at toy stores and markets...to black gurls who once upon a time were slaves in amarica

Minorities are still slaves to the R-D party.  They are just kept in delusion.  American politics is worse than finding a dried pea under fast moving walnut half-shells.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: SoldierofFortune on September 20, 2018, 07:49:58 PM
Quote from: Baruch on September 20, 2018, 07:36:29 PM
Minorities are still slaves to the R-D party.  They are just kept in delusion.  American politics is worse than finding a dried pea under fast moving walnut half-shells.
Didnt get the idiom or proverb whatever it is. Generally it is hard to me to understand you and your rhetorik.

Blacks doesnt count as minority though. But the fields in politics businesses etc that they are effective are limited when looking at their population rate.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: trdsf on September 20, 2018, 08:32:17 PM
I'm inclined to these two questions: if Superman were being created today, is there a reason he has to be any particular ethnicity, other than publication history?  And on the flip side, is there a reason he has to be any particular ethnicity, other than trying to grab headlines?

It's also worth going back to look at some comics from the 30s and 40s -- and for that matter, on into the 60s -- and good luck coming up with any heroes of color.  It was a different time -- fundamentally, Superman is white because in 1938, social mores in the US dictated that there was no other color he could be, even if making him some other ethnicity had ever crossed the minds of his creators (and there's no evidence it had).  Check out the Digital Comic Museum (https://digitalcomicmuseum.com/index.php) and good damn luck finding any minority representations from that era that aren't offensively stereotypical at best and racist at worst.  Even as late as 1966, Jim Shooter was forbidden by DC Comics from creating a black hero for the Legion series because "we'll lose our distribution in the South." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferro_Lad#Publication_history)

If they're rebooting Supes, personally, I don't care what color he comes out of it as.  I'm more interested in whether it'd have good writing and art.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Mike Cl on September 20, 2018, 09:05:19 PM
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on September 20, 2018, 07:27:46 PM
What about " black barbie girl "...

Capitalism finally succeed at selling black barbies at toy stores and markets...to black gurls who once upon a time were slaves in amarica
Don't you just have a razor sharp mind, tho?!!!  You are so smart you could easily go work for the Trump administration I bet.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: trdsf on September 20, 2018, 09:08:03 PM
Quote from: Munch on September 19, 2018, 08:20:33 PM
Storm from the x-men can only be black
Luke cage can only be black
Falcon can only be black
Blade can only be black
Sunfire can only be japanese
Jubilee can only be chinese-american
Katana can only be japanese

How would you feel if any of these characters were made white?
Would it piss you off, claiming its removing a core aspect of their character, even if they keep the same personality?
That's a little disingenuous.  Many of these characters were created in order to make comics look a little more like society at large, since before them supers were almost universally white Westerners.  If Marvel, DC, et al. had already resembled the real world rather than an almost universally Western Caucasian world, then no, there would be no reason any of them would have had to be created their particular ethnicity and it wouldn't make any difference to change it now.

Instead, prior to then, supers comics were primarily white men, presumably straight, with a small number of white women, also presumably straight, and typically dressed more for titillation than crime prevention: do Black Canary and Zatanna really think fishnets are sensible heroing attire?  We won't even get into Wonder Woman's bondage/dom/sub history.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on September 20, 2018, 09:16:54 PM
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on September 20, 2018, 01:26:41 AM
And yet the comics depict him being closer to Caucasian then anything.
Well, brand recognition is a thing. That's not something you mess with without a compelling reason. It works with "what if" stories, but when it's treated as the color of a make of car, that's when I get turned off by it.

Quote
I don't know about you but Marvel's Jack Kirby was Jewish and thy mad Captain America a Nazi out of spit because he was a whit male "American patriot" and whit or Jewish people cant be people, cant they in our shitty PC world.
Hydra Cap America was a bungled story, period. Maybe it was PC bullshit, but I am of the opinion that there are no bad plots, only bad execution of plots. There was a good story screaming to get out in there, if only it was handled by a competent author. That's what's missing from both Marvel and DC lately. Instead of writing good stories about amazing people in amazing scenarios, we get cheap gimmicks and hack writing. There's no real storycraft involved; just cheap thrills.

The Silver Age of Superman was filled to the brim with unmitigated dreck. It is part of the reason why comic books became synonymous with shitty writing, flimsy plots, and action driven by stupidity in one form or another â€" literature suited only for little kids who didn't know any better. Those of us who lived through the Comics Renaissance have been spoiled by the gems that have been dropped, and gaze in dismay upon the current trend and don't realize that this is the way comics have been through most of their history. The Renaissance was followed by the Dark & Gritty Age, to be followed by the Big Shock Age, and then the Shovelware Age, and now we're in the next gimmicky age, the "Diversity" Age. It's just another gimmick that the "creators" are pulling out to get us to read their dreck. After the "Diversity" Age, there'll be another age of bullshit, and another gimmick â€" unless they finally learn their lesson this time and become storytellers again.

Quote
Now Yes, cultural appropriation is shit and promotes racism, but it shows that people want their historical and historical fiction characters to be displayed as they were before all this white washing began.

Their are actors that don't fit the criteria like a black Gwnavere in the TV show Merlin but even though its displayed as equality of cast it's still goes against history and I have seen people shit on mythologies and fiction saying their fiction so we can do whatever we want.
No. The problem runs much deeper than that. The gimmicky nature of the "diversity" train just exposes to people the truth: that these are just bad stories. They are bland, uninteresting, and do not carry any impermature of thought and craft â€" as proven by the racial/gender musical chairs. There's no real uniqueness to the characters, and no feeling that the stories they are in are theirs and theirs alone. It's paint-by-numbers, and has been such through most of the history of mass-entertainment.

Quote
But its the culture presentation of the characters portrayed on the tv and big screen that matters not that you want to cosplay as batman vn though you might b Asian.
Pfft, please. Barriers of race, gender, species, and even being biological have never stopped the determined fan from dressing up as their favorite character. This has never been about bowing to the fans, because the fans don't care. This has always been about "creators" disguising cheap gimmicks and schlock stories as good writing in order to boost sales.

Believe it or not, at least one franchise has made changing its main character on a semi-regluar basis work like a dream. The different iterations varied in interest, personality, and goals. There has even been an instance where one of the incarnations was a woman.

I'm not talking about the Doctor, either.

I'm talking about Hirohiko Araki's opus, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. It goes from an English gentleman, to a American Brit, a Japanese tough-guy, a Japanese pompadour, an Itallian mobster-let, a young American woman of mixed ancestry, an American paraplegic jockey, and the current incantation, a Japanese wierdo. Each stage, Jojo made the transition successfully, with each Jojo having an adventure to call their own and uniquely theirs. All the Jojos are united by their bloodline and their names, yet none can substitute for each other. There are no cheap gimmicks here â€" just storycrafting by a master, and someone who loves what he does.

Back to American comics, one of my favorite series from Marvel was What If? which was basically an exploration of alternate Marvel histories curated by the Watcher Uatu. I haven't followed that particular comic in years (I understand it had changed drastically since I stopped), but when I was reading it, each comic explained how the situation came about, and how it resolved itself, with a veracity deserving of the House of Ideas that Marvel used to be. No cheap tricks and gimmicks, just storycrafting.

And again, both the above examples illustrate the main thrust: "diversity" is being used as a gimmick instead of a genuine storytelling tool. To the suits on high, it was never about "diversity" but rather about trying to get us to buy schlock stories that only pretended to be storytelling, using "diversity" as a gimmick to suck in the SJW crowd who never really cared about comics in the first place, and won't care afterward.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: SoldierofFortune on September 20, 2018, 09:33:46 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 20, 2018, 09:05:19 PM
Don't you just have a razor sharp mind, tho?!!!  You are so smart you could easily go work for the Trump administration I bet.

This is a compliment or what kind of irony or satire?
I just wonder if you side with Trump administration or not...?
I am looking for a job that is suitable my qualifications. Of course if i take invitation i may consider on it but Turkland government may charge me of betrsyal i am afraid...
Though, there is a coordination bureu of CIA in Turkish intelligence organization and USA and Turkland are allied two states...
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Baruch on September 20, 2018, 09:58:01 PM
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on September 20, 2018, 07:49:58 PM
Didnt get the idiom or proverb whatever it is. Generally it is hard to me to understand you and your rhetorik.

Blacks doesnt count as minority though. But the fields in politics businesses etc that they are effective are limited when looking at their population rate.

Correct.  There is a game, a con game.  A mark is found by an operator.  The operator puts a dried pea under a half-walnut-shell.  He has three shells.  The operator can manipulate the three shells very fast, and asks the mark to bet, which shell is the pea under now.  The mark loses his bet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeGRbfN-_08

I never understand how a magician does it, but I never bet against a magician either!
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Mike Cl on September 20, 2018, 10:31:31 PM
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on September 20, 2018, 09:33:46 PM
This is a compliment or what kind of irony or satire?
I just wonder if you side with Trump administration or not...?
I am looking for a job that is suitable my qualifications. Of course if i take invitation i may consider on it but Turkland government may charge me of betrsyal i am afraid...
Though, there is a coordination bureu of CIA in Turkish intelligence organization and USA and Turkland are allied two states...
Figure it out, brainac.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: pr126 on September 20, 2018, 10:40:43 PM
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on September 20, 2018, 07:27:46 PM
What about " black barbie girl "...

Capitalism finally succeed at selling black barbies at toy stores and markets...to black gurls who once upon a time were slaves in amarica

First hijab-wearing Barbie released in tribute to Olympic athlete (https://www.dezeen.com/2017/11/16/first-hijab-wearing-barbie-doll-tribute-olympic-athlete-ibtihaj-muhammad-mattell/)

(https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2017/11/shero-hijab-barbie-by-mattel_dezeen_hero-852x479.jpg)
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Munch on September 21, 2018, 09:20:56 AM
Does Ken come with a matching Iranian husband getup and wife slapping hand action?
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Hydra009 on September 21, 2018, 11:48:28 AM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on September 20, 2018, 09:16:54 PMHydra Cap America was a bungled story, period. Maybe it was PC bullshit, but I am of the opinion that there are no bad plots, only bad execution of plots.
I've seen Suicide Squad and letmee tell ya, there absolutely are bad plots.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Hydra009 on September 21, 2018, 12:00:26 PM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on September 20, 2018, 09:16:54 PMTo the suits on high, it was never about "diversity" but rather about trying to get us to buy schlock stories that only pretended to be storytelling, using "diversity" as a gimmick to suck in the SJW crowd who never really cared about comics in the first place, and won't care afterward.
I've never understood the idea of pandering to people who aren't naturally interested in the product.  If I were to adapt a book for film, I'd try to win over the people who like the book first and foremost.  Then people who are interested in that particular genre.  Then the general public.  You know who'd be my dead last priority?  People who have never cared about anything even remotely similar to that book or are actively hostile to it.

Marketing comics movies to SJWs is like marketing supercomputers to the amish.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: GSOgymrat on September 21, 2018, 12:13:27 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on September 21, 2018, 12:00:26 PM
I've never understood the idea of pandering to people who aren't naturally interested in the product. 

I suspect part of it is youth marketing. I'm sure analysts are telling the writers and producers that social justice "is what the kids today are into." It reminds me of the late 60's, early 70's when civil rights and flower power was in vogue and influenced movies and television

https://youtu.be/PvqDkPhD3jU
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Shiranu on September 21, 2018, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: Munch on September 21, 2018, 09:20:56 AM
Does Ken some with a matching Iranian husband getup and wife slapping hand action?

Nah, Ken is too busy in his frat house raping unconscious women and enjoying society tearing her apart while he is granted a light sentence because, "His life shouldn't be ruined over this!"

You know, like a civilized country does, none of that desert sexism here!
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Draconic Aiur on September 21, 2018, 02:07:34 PM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on September 20, 2018, 09:16:54 PM
Well, brand recognition is a thing. That's not something you mess with without a compelling reason. It works with "what if" stories, but when it's treated as the color of a make of car, that's when I get turned off by it.
Hydra Cap America was a bungled story, period. Maybe it was PC bullshit, but I am of the opinion that there are no bad plots, only bad execution of plots. There was a good story screaming to get out in there, if only it was handled by a competent author. That's what's missing from both Marvel and DC lately. Instead of writing good stories about amazing people in amazing scenarios, we get cheap gimmicks and hack writing. There's no real storycraft involved; just cheap thrills.

The Silver Age of Superman was filled to the brim with unmitigated dreck. It is part of the reason why comic books became synonymous with shitty writing, flimsy plots, and action driven by stupidity in one form or another â€" literature suited only for little kids who didn't know any better. Those of us who lived through the Comics Renaissance have been spoiled by the gems that have been dropped, and gaze in dismay upon the current trend and don't realize that this is the way comics have been through most of their history. The Renaissance was followed by the Dark & Gritty Age, to be followed by the Big Shock Age, and then the Shovelware Age, and now we're in the next gimmicky age, the "Diversity" Age. It's just another gimmick that the "creators" are pulling out to get us to read their dreck. After the "Diversity" Age, there'll be another age of bullshit, and another gimmick â€" unless they finally learn their lesson this time and become storytellers again.
No. The problem runs much deeper than that. The gimmicky nature of the "diversity" train just exposes to people the truth: that these are just bad stories. They are bland, uninteresting, and do not carry any impermature of thought and craft â€" as proven by the racial/gender musical chairs. There's no real uniqueness to the characters, and no feeling that the stories they are in are theirs and theirs alone. It's paint-by-numbers, and has been such through most of the history of mass-entertainment.
Pfft, please. Barriers of race, gender, species, and even being biological have never stopped the determined fan from dressing up as their favorite character. This has never been about bowing to the fans, because the fans don't care. This has always been about "creators" disguising cheap gimmicks and schlock stories as good writing in order to boost sales.

Believe it or not, at least one franchise has made changing its main character on a semi-regluar basis work like a dream. The different iterations varied in interest, personality, and goals. There has even been an instance where one of the incarnations was a woman.

I'm not talking about the Doctor, either.

I'm talking about Hirohiko Araki's opus, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. It goes from an English gentleman, to a American Brit, a Japanese tough-guy, a Japanese pompadour, an Itallian mobster-let, a young American woman of mixed ancestry, an American paraplegic jockey, and the current incantation, a Japanese wierdo. Each stage, Jojo made the transition successfully, with each Jojo having an adventure to call their own and uniquely theirs. All the Jojos are united by their bloodline and their names, yet none can substitute for each other. There are no cheap gimmicks here â€" just storycrafting by a master, and someone who loves what he does.

Back to American comics, one of my favorite series from Marvel was What If? which was basically an exploration of alternate Marvel histories curated by the Watcher Uatu. I haven't followed that particular comic in years (I understand it had changed drastically since I stopped), but when I was reading it, each comic explained how the situation came about, and how it resolved itself, with a veracity deserving of the House of Ideas that Marvel used to be. No cheap tricks and gimmicks, just storycrafting.

And again, both the above examples illustrate the main thrust: "diversity" is being used as a gimmick instead of a genuine storytelling tool. To the suits on high, it was never about "diversity" but rather about trying to get us to buy schlock stories that only pretended to be storytelling, using "diversity" as a gimmick to suck in the SJW crowd who never really cared about comics in the first place, and won't care afterward.

But they do ruin it.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Baruch on September 21, 2018, 07:00:25 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on September 21, 2018, 01:16:11 PM
Nah, Ken is too busy in his frat house raping unconscious women and enjoying society tearing her apart while he is granted a light sentence because, "His life shouldn't be ruined over this!"

You know, like a civilized country does, none of that desert sexism here!

You mean like in Toy Story III?  Yeah, he was a plastic douche in that one!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdndTE8ZFig
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Unbeliever on September 21, 2018, 07:25:52 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 19, 2018, 08:12:07 PM
OK, black Superman, naked Batman, what's next?


https://screenrant.com/batman-penis-naked-nude-comic-damned/

Oh well, they were just teasing, I guess...

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/sep/21/batmans-genitals-dc-withdraws-nude-scene-damned
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Munch on September 21, 2018, 09:13:28 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 21, 2018, 07:25:52 PM
Oh well, they were just teasing, I guess...

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/sep/21/batmans-genitals-dc-withdraws-nude-scene-damned

i have the photos to prove it, dc can't hide the circumcised truth.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on September 22, 2018, 06:27:34 PM
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on September 21, 2018, 02:07:34 PM
But they do ruin it.
Because they're hack writers chasing dollars, not art. They were ruining things when they were on the "Dark and Gritty" fad, they were ruining things when they were on the "Let's mature everything" fad, they were ruining things when they were on the "Let's reboot to make things easier to beginners" fad, and they're ruining things trying to appeal to the SJWs. If they really cared about comics as literature, they would have told every one of those SJWs to screw off and let them write the way they want and if the SJWs wanted "Diverse" comics their way, they should write it themselves â€" because, let's face it, that's the only way they would be satisfied. It's just this time there's a clear enemy, rather than our wounds being self-inflicted.

Anyway, JJBA and Marvel's What If series prove that you can change a main character entirely (in many senses) and still have comics that stand the test of time. It's just a matter of not being a hack writer writing for a dollar or chasing ill-defined "principles," but rather for the change to further a story.

Because that's what we're after, at the end of the day. The story.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Cavebear on September 23, 2018, 02:04:00 AM
The Marvel "What If" series, IIRC had characters change (sorry, it's been a long time).  There would be issues having the Fantastic Four change powers.  Or heroes and villains exchanging roles, I think.  I loved those.  Now the movies are forcing that.

I admire the black Nick Fury character Head of SHIELD in the movies.  Samuel Jackson did an outstanding job as Nick Fury.  But I can't help remembering that the original Nick Fury was a tough white guy from Brooklyn who was the sergeant of 'The Howling Commandos" in WWII in the original comics.

Couldn't he have just been replaced?  Was the need for a military backstory something only the character of Nick Fury have done? 

I remember in the comics when The Black Falcon said "I'm just The Falcon".  That was cool.  OK, 'Black Panther' made sense, there are black panthers.  But what if they had made him caucasian later?  Wouldn't there have had to be some weird backstory about albino anthers or something? 

I think the best solution is just to make new characters who have no specific connection to race or ethnicities and elevate them and leave some characters to be as they were. 
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Baruch on September 23, 2018, 07:16:11 AM
The Phantom was a White "Black Panther" .. but he was racisssst.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Cavebear on September 23, 2018, 12:16:11 PM
Quote from: Baruch on September 23, 2018, 07:16:11 AM
The Phantom was a White "Black Panther" .. but he was racisssst.

Not with the purple costume.  He was more like Batman minus the cool gadgets and not in NYC.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Draconic Aiur on September 25, 2018, 02:29:49 AM
Mexican Superman

I don't know where to begin.
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Baruch on September 25, 2018, 06:52:11 AM
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on September 25, 2018, 02:29:49 AM
Mexican Superman

I don't know where to begin.

His weakness isn't kryptonite ... fill in the blank ;-)  But will inject some Lucha Libre into the costume ;-))
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Munch on September 25, 2018, 08:09:45 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/j0HHlR2.jpg)
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Baruch on September 25, 2018, 01:13:20 PM
Wrong picture.  Cavebear would appear in a New England lobster costume ;-)
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Cavebear on October 01, 2018, 04:32:01 PM
Quote from: Baruch on September 25, 2018, 01:13:20 PM
Wrong picture.  Cavebear would appear in a New England lobster costume ;-)

If you can post a picture like that that is recognizably "me" I will post it on my blog. 
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Munch on October 01, 2018, 08:15:28 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on October 01, 2018, 04:32:01 PM
If you can post a picture like that that is recognizably "me" I will post it on my blog.

(https://i.imgur.com/RrVXlc8.jpg)
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Baruch on October 01, 2018, 10:41:15 PM
Oh no!  Cavebear has allied with Jordan Peterson!
Title: Re: Black Superman..
Post by: Cavebear on October 04, 2018, 05:38:31 AM
Quote from: Munch on October 01, 2018, 08:15:28 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/RrVXlc8.jpg)

Good try, but a bit .sdawkcab