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Arts and Entertainment => Film, Music, Sports, and more => Topic started by: Munch on September 10, 2018, 08:04:50 PM

Title: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Munch on September 10, 2018, 08:04:50 PM
This has been flying around. I'm not a tennis fan, or a sports fan in general, however sometimes tennis will be on when round my brothers or a friends house, and I see the favorites. I had respect for Venus Wiiliams, I think she's a great player and holds herself up with a level of class.

Her sister Serena however.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMAXEaGGoGk

I've seen several reports about her, she often uses her daughter as a front for everything she does. that might sound good in principle, but it doesn't hide the fact this woman, HAS TO BE the center of attention.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/lostinshowbiz/2013/jun/20/serena-williams-rape-whats-appropriate

Its possible to that she has a hate on for men in general, her need to call on the sexism card in her tirade suggests it.

But the thing that really shows her level of ignorance, is how much to ruined the day for the one who beat her. When reading up about Naomi Osaka, she's a really smart and inspiriting woman whos seen Williams like a hero, imagining her dream of playing against her in a match finally, just to have the bitch draw all attention away from her victory, make it about herself, and then try to play it cool after like she didn't cause any harm.

Fuck Serena and her dog fans. This pissed me off so much, and i'm not even a tennis fan. I had to tweet to Naomi that I thought she was an inspiration to so many people. 
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Mermaid on September 10, 2018, 08:12:04 PM
I think she's a magnificent athlete with integrity, who really didn't do anything wrong or ignorant. It was a terrible situation and I feel awful for Osaka, who had an astronomically great thing happen to her but was robbed of all the good feelings about it. The awards ceremony was heartbreaking to watch. The worst thing is that Osaka probably would have won anyway. But we will never know.

Put yourself in Williams' shoes. She was playing a VERY intense game, a really important one, and she was called out for cheating through no fault of her own. Are you saying you wouldn't lose it for being wrongly accused, and during that kind of a high-pressure event? She did not precipitate this. It sucks for everyone.

Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Munch on September 10, 2018, 08:16:57 PM
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I think she's a magnificent athlete with integrity, who really didn't do anything wrong or ignorant. It was a terrible situation and I feel awful for Osaka, who had an astronomically great thing happen to her but was robbed of all the good feelings about it. The awards ceremony was heartbreaking to watch. The worst thing is that Osaka probably would have won anyway. But we will never know.

Put yourself in Williams' shoes. She was playing a VERY intense game, a really important one, and she was called out for cheating through no fault of her own. Are you saying you wouldn't lose it for being wrongly accused, and during that kind of a high-pressure event? She did not precipitate this. It sucks for everyone.

she wasn't wrong accused, she cheated, end of. She just can't handle losing.

She has not tact or grace either, it wasn't the umpires fault despite rabid Serena fans claiming otherwise, he was following the rules.

And calling the racism card is such bollocks, since in case you didn't notice, both the players in this match where of non-white decent, but only Williams got given the warning because she was cheating or failing to follow the rules.

I've seen other players play intense games, and they don't break down like a screaming banshee because they lose.
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Mermaid on September 10, 2018, 08:20:43 PM
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she wasn't wrong accused, she cheated, end of.

Do you know this for a fact? She is pretty adamant that she did not. How can you be so sure?
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Munch on September 10, 2018, 08:54:53 PM
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Do you know this for a fact? She is pretty adamant that she did not. How can you be so sure?

She was accused of cheating, shouted her mouth off at the umpire for it and warned, did it again and warned a third time.

Also her word against the umpire. Just because in her head she wasn't cheating in her desperation to win doesn't make it valid.

Wanna know who else claimed to not be something they were?

(https://stevenaarmstrong.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/images-3.jpg?w=273)
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Shiranu on September 10, 2018, 09:09:18 PM
Shocking opinion. I am sure my opinion is just as shocking.
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Baruch on September 10, 2018, 10:41:37 PM
Tennis players aren't genteel like golf players ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrFVwEw7xoU
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Shiranu on September 11, 2018, 01:21:33 AM
Fuck, I was going to stay out of this, but why should I?

1. She wasn't punished for breaking the rules... she was punished for something her coach did, which she wasn't even looking at at the time. So right off the bat this idea that she is "getting what she deserves" is absolute horse ass.

2. If you have never watched tennis than I can understand how you can view her slamming her racket down or yelling at the ref as extreme, but literally everyone and their brother behaves like that in tennis matches... shit, when I started watching tennis players like Agassi who were notorious for just being complete dicks. Legends like John McEnroe... it was just as much their attitude as their skill on the court that drew people to the sport.

There is a common link between all these male tennis players and their attitudes on the court... next to their skill, their fiery behaviour was something they were praised for, something that "brought viewers in". When arguments between the refs and the players happen, the guy is just being fired up or passionate about the game.

Yet when Serena is fiery, she is ignorant, she is classless, she has "dog friends" (just call her a bitch, don't try to sugar coat it). She is "hysterical", she had a "meltdown" and had a "tantrum". She has "lost it" and needs to "calm down".

Yes, there is a double-standard there. Be it because of her race, her sex, both, neither... it doesn't really matter. What matters is at the end of the day a fiery white man is something we as society praise, but a fiery black woman is something that is horrible and she is human garbage.

Again, no surprise to see you fall on the wrong side of the issue, especially considering you apparently think it was Serena who did something wrong rather than her coach (which can we, regardless of side of the issue, all just agree that coaches not being allowed to coach is one of the most moronic rules ever heard of in sports?).


The tennis players who have spoken out on the issue all seem to agree that the way she was treated is weird, that they don't get penalized the same way she did, especially given guys behave the same way all the time with no backlash what-so-ever. As someone who never watches tennis, it seems odd to me that you would know more about it than people who play it for a living.
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: pr126 on September 11, 2018, 02:39:18 AM
Serena is black, and a woman.
She is twice the oppressed minority, therefore by logic she cannot be criticized.

Get with the program, you racist, sexist, white supremacist oppressors.
How dare you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koQsrG0-wPI
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Mike Cl on September 11, 2018, 10:01:35 AM
The ump involved in this incident is getting off pretty light.  All professional refs, in all sports, are supposed to keep peace, move the game along and to enforce fair play.  Nobody goes to a pro event to watch the refs.  When this ump took a point, and then a full game from Serena, he broke all the rules for what his conduct was supposed to be.  Has a male lost a point for 'coaching' from the stands?  Not by this ump (at least not from the info I've seen so far).  To lose an entire game in a match of this magnitude and importance is is uncalled for and very unsettling for the player.  Has this ump ever done that to a male player?  No.  It seems to me this was selective enforcement of the rules.  Serena and Naomi were both upstaged and unfairly treated by this ump.  If I had a say in it, he would  be suspended and retrained.   
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Munch on September 11, 2018, 12:48:36 PM
good thing about this kind of event is seeing the apologetics come into play from people wanting their social cognition to be correct, even when everything goes against it, no evidence can be correct unless its in their belief.
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Baruch on September 11, 2018, 01:25:11 PM
Not being an expert in tennis, womanhood or being Black ... I will have to defer to others ;-)
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Mike Cl on September 11, 2018, 02:21:57 PM
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good thing about this kind of event is seeing the apologetics come into play from people wanting their social cognition to be correct, even when everything goes against it, no evidence can be correct unless its in their belief.
This, for me, is a sports thing.  I don't care about the sex of the player.  My first sports love is baseball;softball.  Players complain about refs when they are inconsistent.  If a ref calls balls that are high in the strike zone a strike instead of a ball, that's okay, as long as he is consistent with his calls within that game.  If he isn't, both side become angry and let the ref know about it.  If it happens with a particular ref too often, his contract is not renewed.  Same with every sport--football, basketball and tennis.  The refs have to be consistent.  This guy was/is not, apparently.    Also, in all sports, refs are taught not to upstage the players--ever.  If they do, then most are dealt with.   
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Shiranu on September 11, 2018, 04:04:47 PM
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good thing about this kind of event is seeing the apologetics come into play from people wanting their social cognition to be correct, even when everything goes against it, no evidence can be correct unless its in their belief.

Says the guy who admits he knows nothing about tennis but apparently knows more than people who have been professionally playing for years saying this was the refs fault, and ignores that Serena didn't even do anything wrong (her coach did) while mouthing off about how horrible she and her fans are.

Even by your standards that was a dumb argument to make.
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: PickelledEggs on September 11, 2018, 04:25:06 PM
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Serena is black, and a woman.
She is twice the oppressed minority, therefore by logic she cannot be criticized.

Get with the program, you racist, sexist, white supremacist oppressors.
How dare you.

Osaka is also black and a woman. What the fuck are you on about.

*note, i know Osaka is also part Japanese, but she is also part black.
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Baruch on September 11, 2018, 08:08:37 PM
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Osaka is also black and a woman. What the fuck are you on about.

*note, i know Osaka is also part Japanese, but she is also part black.

Ms Osaka's non-Black part needs to check its privilege ;-)
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: PickelledEggs on September 11, 2018, 09:56:37 PM
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Ms Osaka's non-Black part needs to check its privilege ;-)
That part is Japanese...
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Cavebear on September 12, 2018, 04:06:25 AM
From what I saw on this (and it was repeated endlessly on the news for a while), no one wins this argument.  Serena had reasons to complain, the judge had a reason to react, and Naomi Osaka was left with an unfair challenged win. 

I feel sorriest for Naomi Osaka.  Her glorious moment beating Serena Willams (one of the best tennis players ever) was ruined by a controversy. 
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Baruch on September 12, 2018, 01:13:40 PM
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From what I saw on this (and it was repeated endlessly on the news for a while), no one wins this argument.  Serena had reasons to complain, the judge had a reason to react, and Naomi Osaka was left with an unfair challenged win. 

I feel sorriest for Naomi Osaka.  Her glorious moment beating Serena Willams (one of the best tennis players ever) was ruined by a controversy.

Great observation.  Don't know myself who did what wrong ... but now the tennis refs want to form a union, and ban the players ;-)
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: pr126 on September 13, 2018, 02:06:46 AM
Here is a replay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBexG_DxD-s
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Shiranu on September 13, 2018, 02:33:51 AM
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Here is a replay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBexG_DxD-s

(https://i.imgflip.com/2htvv3.jpg)
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: pr126 on September 13, 2018, 03:45:22 AM
Poor black woman. $ 88 million in the bank and still oppressed.

Only in racist sexist America. Shame on you.
I blame Trump and all who voted for him. Basket of deplorables.
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Munch on September 13, 2018, 06:51:52 AM
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(https://i.imgflip.com/2htvv3.jpg)

(https://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/MjAxMy1kYjkzZmU3YjNmY2YzY2E2.png)
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: SGOS on September 13, 2018, 09:51:07 AM
Utube seems to be filled with self appointed bloggers that constantly comment on the behavior of others and have to explain what happens in life so that the rest of us will be aware.  But that in itself is a behavior that seems to escape comment. Without them we would never know who was the real asshole in the controversy.  Thank God.  Otherwise, I would have missed the event entirely.  But not having seen it, I don't have much of an opinion to report. 

I remember that old sports coverage lead in of one of the major TV networks that let us participate in "the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat," showing some hapless ski jumper crashing and burning in a spectacular mishap that made the guy famous, although few people ever knew who he was.  I had a young woman tell me once she really liked hockey and went to see the Chicago Blackhawks all the time.  She added that she really liked the fights.  I guess this would be exciting, kind of, and I suppose that's much of what sports can be about.  Somehow, I still think there is more to it.
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Baruch on September 13, 2018, 12:32:31 PM
Maybe a theist can get Howard Cosell on the phone (he is dead) and get him to comment on this sports drama!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi69utdvDcA
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Shiranu on September 14, 2018, 03:33:25 AM
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(https://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/MjAxMy1kYjkzZmU3YjNmY2YzY2E2.png)

Says the guy who argues against actual professionals on a subject he admits he doesn't know anything about.

The "facts" are easy to agree with, so long as you only listen to information you like. Soon as the actual facts start hitting though you suddenly don't seem so interested in listening to them and either insist everyone else is wrong or just dissapear. Funny how that works...
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Munch on September 14, 2018, 05:28:21 AM
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Says the guy who argues against actual professionals on a subject he admits he doesn't know anything about.

The "facts" are easy to agree with, so long as you only listen to information you like. Soon as the actual facts start hitting though you suddenly don't seem so interested in listening to them and either insist everyone else is wrong or just dissapear. Funny how that works...

Oh yes, I guess we have a lot in common then :)
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Shiranu on September 14, 2018, 05:39:05 AM
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Oh yes, I guess we have a lot in common then :)

Perhaps, but the difference is I actually have listened to people like you and pr and even agreed and compromised on my position on more than one occasion here. The difference is I don't just find my "facts" from sources I agree with but from a multitude of sources, which is why I have shared links from Fox before because they worded it best and it matched up with other sources said. The difference is when actual experts or professionals talk about something, particularly in agreement, on something I don't know all to much about I don't argue with them and insist they are wrong and that everyone who listens to their opinion is just being biased.

So I wanted to say we were vaguely alike, but in truth that would be a lie for politeness sake. We are not alike, on the bolded line, at all. You have not one shown even the slightest intention of compromise in arguing with anyone who doesn't share your ideology, you have hypocritically accused everyone else of biased or "outrage" behaviour that you practice on a consistent basis, and you consistently, without fail, will only accept information that agrees with your ideology.

I am more than happy to admit I am left-leaning, but your constant charade of "neutrality" while you only will parrot what alt-right (and I think that ideology really has less to do with being "right-wing" and more of just being a douchebag) idiots speak and not accept any opposition to it. You don't get to call yourself neutral when you exclusively take one side in literally every damn argument I have ever seen here.

At the end of the day, anyone who doesn't share your ideology will see right through your bullshit. As for the people who buy into it and agree with you... it's not my job to change your mind for you, but that doesn't mean I won't call it out when I have to.
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Baruch on September 14, 2018, 07:25:21 AM
You are both wrong.  Either Cave is right about everything or Hakurei is ... must sell tickets to that match!
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Cavebear on September 15, 2018, 12:28:08 AM
1.  I think Serena Williams got treated unfairly.  Male players get away with worse.  Anyone remember John McEnroe?  Women players shouldn't have to be "nicer".

2.  But tennis players (men and women alike) have a long-standing tradition of arguing umpire calls.  Its a game of inches and very subjective.  Baseball is a lot like that.  The umpire calls balls and strikes subjectively and if you argue much, you get tossed out of the game.

3.  So why not tennis be like that.  You accept the ins and outs and SHADDUP about it.  Or be tossed.

4.  Or there be lasers along all the lines so there is no umpire decision...  I like that option.

5.  No arguments, no fines.

Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: SGOS on September 15, 2018, 06:34:27 AM
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But tennis players (men and women alike) have a long-standing tradition of arguing umpire calls
Or there be lasers along all the lines so there is no umpire decision...  I like that option.
No arguments, no fines.
Good points.  Tennis should be about competition, not tradition. 

Perhaps the tennis association disagrees, and is opposed to technology that would eliminate umpire error.  What would tennis be without stuffy umpires with dictatorial powers?  It's a tradition.  Players who receive bad calls must likewise maintain a tradition of taking shit from pompous asses with less skill, like true ladies and gentlemen. 

You see the game isn't about skill, except for the players.  No one watching gives a shit about tennis.  It's about dressing up in those cute outfits fresh from the cleaners.  It's about being seen in the stands at Wimbledon.    It's about the ritual, and mankind loves useless rituals of long standing tradition, where choreography is more important than wits and physical ability.   Skill and precision are only important to those competing for the prize, or to those with enough experience to value skill over pomp.

I like boxing.  It's simple and straight forward.  Two guys stand toe to toe and beat each other about the head with their fists until one falls down.  Sure there is a referee present, but no one listens to a god damn word he says.  Pure ability reigns supreme.
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Baruch on September 15, 2018, 03:54:14 PM
Tennis is just as royal a sport as golf or polo.  So of course it is about being seen there.
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: pr126 on September 16, 2018, 01:34:43 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfcQsI54gQM
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Cavebear on September 19, 2018, 05:35:58 AM
In baseball, a slightest (maybe 2nd) episode of yelling insults gets you ejected.  I think that would do well for tennis.  And BTW, I always thought McEnroe was a jerk and should have been tossed on first yell just on principle.  It might have made him a better player.  Or a worse, and I don't care. 

In tennis, the ref/ump calls the shot and you go on... 
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Sal1981 on September 20, 2018, 07:52:02 PM
Watched a vid from Pewdiepie on this on the first half of Pew news:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-Zz2OTAl7o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-Zz2OTAl7o)

Serena is pulling bullshit. Osaka and the umpire were more than forgiving and Serena pulls SJW bs even getting Osaka to say she's sorry. For what? Serena Williams is a bully.
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: pr126 on September 20, 2018, 11:31:06 PM
Quote
Serena Williams is a bully.
She is entitled to be.
She is black and a woman.
The protected minority, fighting for women's rights.
More power for her.

Get with the program.

Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Shiranu on September 20, 2018, 11:35:19 PM
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In baseball, a slightest (maybe 2nd) episode of yelling insults gets you ejected.  I think that would do well for tennis.  And BTW, I always thought McEnroe was a jerk and should have been tossed on first yell just on principle.  It might have made him a better player.  Or a worse, and I don't care. 

In tennis, the ref/ump calls the shot and you go on... 

And if that was how tennis worked, then I would 100% be on the umps side. It's just... that's not how it works 90% of the time, particularly when big names are involved.

Also some slack is due to the ump... that rule that the coach cant coach is simply one of the most moronic rules I have ever heard of in any sport.
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Cavebear on September 23, 2018, 02:47:59 AM
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She is entitled to be.
She is black and a woman.
The protected minority, fighting for women's rights.
More power for her.

Get with the program.

Serena Williams is not a bully.  In general, her attitude on the court is average.

As far as I can tell, she does not feel entitled to be bullyish, she has no advantage being black, and the idea that she gains from being a women among WOMEN players is UTTERLY ABSURD of the face of the claim.

She probably is however, the best women's tennis player ever.  I have considered Billy Jean King and Natrina Navratilova, who were great in their day, but Serena is far stronger than either.   She would have wiped Steffi Graf right off the court.
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Munch on September 23, 2018, 04:40:07 AM
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.

She probably is however, the best women's tennis player ever.  I have considered Billy Jean King and Natrina Navratilova, who were great in their day, but Serena is far stronger than either.   She would have wiped Steffi Graf right off the court.

So good that when she loses a round she throws a hissing fit and breaks stadium property
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Cavebear on September 23, 2018, 05:58:56 AM
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So good that when she loses a round she throws a hissing fit and breaks stadium property

I thought she broke her racket and yelled at the chair judge.  Not like any male tennis players ever did that, of course, unpunished...
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Munch on September 23, 2018, 06:14:10 AM
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I thought she broke her racket and yelled at the chair judge.  Not like any male tennis players ever did that, of course, unpunished...

Doesn't change the fact it's unprofessional.

Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Cavebear on September 23, 2018, 06:22:14 AM
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Doesn't change the fact it's unprofessional.

Yes it was.  But the expectation that women tennis players have to be more polite than male tennis players is unacceptable.
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Baruch on September 23, 2018, 07:17:56 AM
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Yes it was.  But the expectation that women tennis players have to be more polite than male tennis players is unacceptable.

Correct.  Just ban the sport.  Make everyone watch golf ;-)
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Cavebear on September 23, 2018, 12:13:19 PM
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Correct.  Just ban the sport.  Make everyone watch golf ;-)

In honor of the Fall Solstice, I will engage with Baruch as much as I can today before I throw up in frustration...

To start, I will say I would never force anyone to watch golf.  It's a decent skill.  But my cat Ayla likes to watch it more than I do.  She likes to bat at the ball in the air on the screen
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Baruch on September 23, 2018, 12:19:44 PM
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In honor of the Fall Solstice, I will engage with Baruch as much as I can today before I throw up in frustration...

To start, I will say I would never force anyone to watch golf.  It's a decent skill.  But my cat Ayla likes to watch it more than I do.  She likes to bat at the ball in the air on the screen

Yes, your cat overlords have it right.  You should try batting balls of yarn too!

Sorry, if you have an upset stomach, try Alka Seltzer.
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Cavebear on September 23, 2018, 12:56:33 PM
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Yes, your cat overlords have it right.  You should try batting balls of yarn too!

Sorry, if you have an upset stomach, try Alka Seltzer.

More like a stomach pump.  Those yarn hairballs are hard to cough up.  Oh, Ayla thought you were talking to her...  You meant me.  Yeah, those yarn hairballs are hard to cough up.
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on September 24, 2018, 08:24:19 AM
People watch tennis?
Title: Re: Serena Williams / Naomi Osaka Controversy.
Post by: Cavebear on October 01, 2018, 04:38:46 PM
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People watch tennis?

Sometimes.  I also watch darts and archery.  When I come inside after working in the yard, I am easily amused for 30 minutes while I drink Gatorade and cool down..