https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDpQ9He0SMM
And Poland too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2boPPCQ2JI&t=195s
Italy, Austria, Chech Republic, Slovenia also had enough of the EU pathological altruism.
Quote from: pr126 on August 24, 2018, 08:59:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDpQ9He0SMM
And Poland too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2boPPCQ2JI&t=195s
Italy, Austria, Chech Republic, Slovenia also had enough of the EU pathological altruism.
Yeah, toss a drowning child back into the sea. THAT will teach them to try and escape terror at home.
Yes, Italy and Hungrary are both well renowned for being model countries to want to emulate and both highly ranked for how they treat women.
Oh, wait...
I say this as someone of Italian descent... if you look at Italy and think, "We should be more like them!" politically or, in many ways, socially, you are mental. We do so many things absolutely amazingly and i'm incredibly blessed to say I am part Italian-American, but in terms of racism, bigotry and misogyny it's one of the worst ranked countries in Europe.
That's like looking at Greece and saying, "Hmm, we should try out some of their economic policies!". Mental.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 27, 2018, 09:14:38 AM
Yeah, toss a drowning child back into the sea. THAT will teach them to try and escape terror at home.
how about, making it clear to these people they can't just waltz into another country without proper paperwork and procedure, and maybe they won't get on a slave traders boat to be thrown into a life raft halfway across the sea with their kids in the first place.
Quote from: Munch on August 27, 2018, 12:24:56 PM
how about, making it clear to these people they can't just waltz into another country without proper paperwork and procedure, and maybe they won't get on a slave traders boat to be thrown into a life raft halfway across the sea with their kids in the first place.
If the choice is nearly certain death or starvation at home and a CHANCE at a better life elsewhere, what would YOU choose?
And something else to consider. The people who are brave and resourceful enough to leave home and survive the attempt are the very people another country should want to have. Its the ones who just sit where they are to die who won't make it elsewhere.
I know I'm not putting that as well as I wish I could, but think of the people who landed on the shores of the US the past couple of centuries. THEY have succeeded. THEY worked hard , learned a new language, a new culture, entered into the mainstream. THEY were treated like trash but they got past it, their children are now "us". Or do we forget that Italians and Germans and Jews and Asians were once unwanted immigrants, spat upon by we of barely little more time here?
I better stop or a real rant will follow.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 27, 2018, 01:01:09 PM
If the choice is nearly certain death or starvation at home and a CHANCE at a better life elsewhere, what would YOU choose?
And something else to consider. The people who are brave and resourceful enough to leave home and survive the attempt are the very people another country should want to have. Its the ones who just sit where they are to die who won't make it elsewhere.
I know I'm not putting that as well as I wish I could, but think of the people who landed on the shores of the US the past couple of centuries. THEY have succeeded. THEY worked hard , learned a new language, a new culture, entered into the mainstream. THEY were treated like trash but they got past it, their children are now "us". Or do we forget that Italians and Germans and Jews and Asians were once unwanted immigrants, spat upon by we of barely little more time here?
I better stop or a real rant will follow.
Choice? I would choose to invade you, take your stuff, rape your women, kill your men and castrate your male children. Seems to be what is happening (with some immigrants).
Quote from: Munch on August 27, 2018, 12:24:56 PM
how about, making it clear to these people they can't just waltz into another country without proper paperwork and procedure, and maybe they won't get on a slave traders boat to be thrown into a life raft halfway across the sea with their kids in the first place.
That is a metric fuckton of obliviousness in one post, implying that these people are just casually risking their lives and uprooting their entire heritage for the lawlz. I think it might have just put some actual strain on the servers to support it.
Quote from: Shiranu on August 27, 2018, 11:13:09 PM
That is a metric fuckton of obliviousness in one post, implying that these people are just casually risking their lives and uprooting their entire heritage for the lawlz. I think it might have just put some actual strain on the servers to support it.
Let the UN Human Rights council head, SA, take care of this.
Quote from: Shiranu on August 27, 2018, 11:13:09 PM
That is a metric fuckton of obliviousness in one post, implying that these people are just casually risking their lives and uprooting their entire heritage for the lawlz. I think it might have just put some actual strain on the servers to support it.
Or did the reality just hit you hard that immigration helps support human trafficking?
Quote from: Munch on August 28, 2018, 08:55:13 AM
Or did the reality just hit you hard that immigration helps support human trafficking?
Mmm no, maybe the reality is that there are reasons I've been heavily in favour of increasing our facilities and personal to handle the refugee crisis instead of stupidly saying it's a problem and we should just put it off and leave it to someone else.
I know I have said it before, but I first off live on the border between the United States and Latin America as well as volunteer fairly regularly, particularly when we had all the Hondurans and El Salvadorians coming up, at processing facilities. If anyone here's knowledge of immigrants is questionable, it's the person(s) who imply that people choose to flee their country just do it for the lawls. These people are more than aware of the risks of crossing the desert, crossing gang-infested territory, crossing the Medi on rafts, being sold into slavery, being deported once they arrive, and so on... but they choose to do it anyways.
That should tell you something about what they are fleeing when they see all of this and choose to all those risks anyways.
Quote from: Shiranu on August 28, 2018, 02:17:36 PM
Mmm no, maybe the reality is that there are reasons I've been heavily in favour of increasing our facilities and personal to handle the refugee crisis instead of stupidly saying it's a problem and we should just put it off and leave it to someone else.
I know I have said it before, but I first off live on the border between the United States and Latin America as well as volunteer fairly regularly, particularly when we had all the Hondurans and El Salvadorians coming up, at processing facilities. If anyone here's knowledge of immigrants is questionable, it's the person(s) who imply that people choose to flee their country just do it for the lawls. These people are more than aware of the risks of crossing the desert, crossing gang-infested territory, crossing the Medi on rafts, being sold into slavery, being deported once they arrive, and so on... but they choose to do it anyways.
That should tell you something about what they are fleeing when they see all of this and choose to all those risks anyways.
The reality of why many people flee certain countries isn't lost on others as you might assume. But to also assume every single migrant that crosses from africa or the middle east is doing so to escape some war torn land is just denial.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/824794/migrant-crisis-refugee-Italy-Libya-UN-figures-Mediterranean-boat-crossing
The thing we might seem to agree on is the serious need for tighter controls in this. If every migrant coming to europe were ones in need to help escaping something, then it wouldn't be an issue. But as its been told time and time again, many are not those kinds of migrants, many just want to bleed off what europe is offering them for free.
This was never going to be a sustainable event, saying you think other places should open up to help these people, maybe first and foremost it should be the countries guarantee of safety for the denizens of that country, guarantee this massive blow of people will benefit the country, help it grow, instead of just leaving the door open and hope the flow stops eventually.
This is not helping anyone. This is a human catastrophe because of the lack of control europe has had in it, because when poorer countries found out europe was offering food and prospects to all, without strict control, that is why so many are dead. That lack of strict control has caused those people to die, and allowed violence or messed up economic migrants to pollute the places they flock to.
So, unless these countries follows in polands example and is strict, more of them are going to die, drowning or starving, because thats what happens when there isn't any control to something this massive. Its all well and good saying we need to help these people, but how its happening now isn't helping anymore for the better good, or the long term.
Marxists love human trafficking ... if the State can profit from it. The drug trade in the US has been under CIA control for decades now, to supplement their Black budget.
Quote from: Shiranu on August 27, 2018, 11:13:09 PM
That is a metric fuckton of obliviousness in one post, implying that these people are just casually risking their lives and uprooting their entire heritage for the lawlz. I think it might have just put some actual strain on the servers to support it.
Through history, most of the people who have had the courage to uproot their lives and find a way to escape have been the best new citizens. But I do sometimes have my doubts about mass movements that can stress existing cultures and nations.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 12, 2018, 06:14:32 AM
Through history, most of the people who have had the courage to uproot their lives and find a way to escape have been the best new citizens. But I do sometimes have my doubts about mass movements that can stress existing cultures and nations.
No kidding.
Quote from: Munch on September 12, 2018, 06:24:57 AM
No kidding.
Well, OK, let's say that all humans have at least SOME sort of obligation to one another. And a refugee from a horrible place might have valuable skills. So we allow that refugee in. And a 2nd and a 1000th. It takes some social effort to help the new people adjust to a new society. But they do and all is good. What about 100,000th person who has no skills?
At some level, it becomes the cliff problem. Do you build a fence at the top or put an ambulance at the bottom? Isn't the real answer to solve the problems where the refugees are coming from? Doesn't it eventually become easier to help them stay where they are rather than start to support and help them adjust in a new place?
We used to do that. But we (world collectively) have caused so much warfare that we are causing the refugee problem. How do we stop it?
Quote from: Cavebear on September 12, 2018, 06:46:12 AM
Well, OK, let's say that all humans have at least SOME sort of obligation to one another. And a refugee from a horrible place might have valuable skills. So we allow that refugee in. And a 2nd and a 1000th. It takes some social effort to help the new people adjust to a new society. But they do and all is good. What about 100,000th person who has no skills?
The problem with that way of thinking is we don't account for the simple fact that people are lying, abusing an easily manipulated system, or ignoring that it would cause more trouble for the people already living in those more develop countries then before. We have homeless problems in europe, that hasn't been taken care of yet, so why should migrants take priority over the countries own people.
All it does is exacerbate the situation there already.
QuoteAt some level, it becomes the cliff problem. Do you build a fence at the top or put an ambulance at the bottom? Isn't the real answer to solve the problems where the refugees are coming from? Doesn't it eventually become easier to help them stay where they are rather than start to support and help them adjust in a new place?
As we've seen with many of these places in europe, many of these people flooding in do not adjust, or intend to adjust, but would rather then country adjust to them. And when you take people like that and multiply them, you have a growing problem.
QuoteWe used to do that. But we (world collectively) have caused so much warfare that we are causing the refugee problem. How do we stop it?
There are more people today then there were 100 years ago, and the ecological effect of having so many people is a tax on resources as it is. You then throw in more and more people from other regions, it can lead to a breakdown of system that no amount of pc culture good will can fix, and plus thats screwed over those who are already living there.
There is no easy solution at this point the same as their is no easy solution to fixing the melting icecaps. The best solution would be for a global pandemic to wipe out 70% of humanity and the surviving start over.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 12, 2018, 06:46:12 AM
Well, OK, let's say that all humans have at least SOME sort of obligation to one another. And a refugee from a horrible place might have valuable skills. So we allow that refugee in. And a 2nd and a 1000th. It takes some social effort to help the new people adjust to a new society. But they do and all is good. What about 100,000th person who has no skills?
At some level, it becomes the cliff problem. Do you build a fence at the top or put an ambulance at the bottom? Isn't the real answer to solve the problems where the refugees are coming from? Doesn't it eventually become easier to help them stay where they are rather than start to support and help them adjust in a new place?
We used to do that. But we (world collectively) have caused so much warfare that we are causing the refugee problem. How do we stop it?
The Romans couldn't keep out the Germans or Huns.
Yes, you have $1 million, or about 100,000,000 cents. Give one cent away to each person you can (Go Fund Me) until you are broke. Then I believe you. That still leaves over 7 billion people to support.
This thread makes me want to rip my dick off.
Quote from: Munch on September 12, 2018, 07:19:19 AM
The problem with that way of thinking is we don't account for the simple fact that people are lying, abusing an easily manipulated system, or ignoring that it would cause more trouble for the people already living in those more develop countries then before. We have homeless problems in europe, that hasn't been taken care of yet, so why should migrants take priority over the countries own people.
All it does is exacerbate the situation there already.
As we've seen with many of these places in europe, many of these people flooding in do not adjust, or intend to adjust, but would rather then country adjust to them. And when you take people like that and multiply them, you have a growing problem.
There are more people today then there were 100 years ago, and the ecological effect of having so many people is a tax on resources as it is. You then throw in more and more people from other regions, it can lead to a breakdown of system that no amount of pc culture good will can fix, and plus thats screwed over those who are already living there.
There is no easy solution at this point the same as their is no easy solution to fixing the melting icecaps. The best solution would be for a global pandemic to wipe out 70% of humanity and the surviving start over.
Well, there are probably more people today than even yesterday (even given some random diseases and wars).
Yes, the refugees can become a problem. I was trying to get at that without blaming anyone. But I have to ask, "why are there refugees"? Syrians didn't multiply overnight, they were about the same numbers as last year. And I don't mean to list just Syrians. There are other people seeking safety. And why is that. They were living their lives where they were a decade ago.
Oh, Assad, right. Like they didn't have dictators before. So what happened?
We did. The Rest Of The World happened. Globalization happened, politically and commercially and socially. Things changed for normal people trying to lead normal lives when the roof fell in (so to speak).
When your society fails and there is no clean water to drink, no decent food to eat, no ability to even criticize your political leaders, what is an intelligent person supposed to do? Stay and fail? Or try for a better life elsewhere?
History shows that desperate people will move anywhere. Individually or in groups. It is time to start understanding that we who live in favored places are going to face refugees. and learn to deal with it.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 12, 2018, 10:47:37 AM
Well, there are probably more people today than even yesterday (even given some random diseases and wars).
Yes, the refugees can become a problem. I was trying to get at that without blaming anyone. But I have to ask, "why are there refugees"? Syrians didn't multiply overnight, they were about the same numbers as last year. And I don't mean to list just Syrians. There are other people seeking safety. And why is that. They were living their lives where they were a decade ago.
QuoteBecause when word spread of how easy and open the borders of europe were, it was an open door for anyone, regardless of if they were or weren't in a war torn land, to just get on a human cargo vessel and sail to it.
We did. The Rest Of The World happened. Globalization happened, politically and commercially and socially. Things changed for normal people trying to lead normal lives when the roof fell in (so to speak).
When your society fails and there is no clean water to drink, no decent food to eat, no ability to even criticize your political leaders, what is an intelligent person supposed to do? Stay and fail? Or try for a better life elsewhere?
History shows that desperate people will move anywhere. Individually or in groups. It is time to start understanding that we who live in favored places are going to face refugees. and learn to deal with it.
https://www.firstpost.com/world/more-than-60-percent-refugees-coming-to-europe-are-actually-economic-migrants-claims-eu-official-2600868.html
this was published 2 years ago, but can still apply to todays crisis.
This is what happens when migration isn't screened. pro migration officials might think their helping people, but the reality is, their just creating a new shit situation for them in just now checking and rechecking the people flooding though. The people who are actually fleeing for a better life as you say, are swamped by the ones only in it to thieve off the ones really in need of it.
economic migrants aren't just a small percentage, they make up a huge mass of the actual migrants coming over, they don't give a shit that their are people actually suffering who come across the waters, they are just in it for the easy gain.
Quote from: Munch on September 12, 2018, 11:49:04 AM
https://www.firstpost.com/world/more-than-60-percent-refugees-coming-to-europe-are-actually-economic-migrants-claims-eu-official-2600868.html
this was published 2 years ago, but can still apply to todays crisis.
This is what happens when migration isn't screened. pro migration officials might think their helping people, but the reality is, their just creating a new shit situation for them in just now checking and rechecking the people flooding though. The people who are actually fleeing for a better life as you say, are swamped by the ones only in it to thieve off the ones really in need of it.
economic migrants aren't just a small percentage, they make up a huge mass of the actual migrants coming over, they don't give a shit that their are people actually suffering who come across the waters, they are just in it for the easy gain.
Love Trump much?
Quote from: Munch on September 12, 2018, 12:21:13 PM
Is that really your go to?
No. but it was the best riposte I could think of. LOL!
I'm not ALWAYS a genius poster. Win 99, lose 1 is what I always say. What should I have said if you were me? Just out of curiosity.
Cavebear wrote:QuoteWhen your society fails and there is no clean water to drink, no decent food to eat, no ability to even criticize your political leaders, what is an intelligent person supposed to do? Stay and fail? Or try for a better life elsewhere?
How soon before the same thing happens to our societies?
If people abandon their countries for an easier life elsewhere, their own countries will decay even more.
They have no incentive to make their lives better at home but taking their failed cultures, ideas, and customs and make the new countries that they arrived to just the same as the places they left.
Observe western Europe with its open borders.
You have the false idea that the people escaping their countries are educated professional hard working people.
That they will integrate and become productive citizens within weeks.
This is not the case.
Or closer to home, watch California, Chicago, New York or any of the Democrat-run sanctuary cities.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on September 12, 2018, 08:19:54 AM
This thread makes me want to rip my dick off.
Not even butch dykes try that!
Quote from: Cavebear on September 12, 2018, 12:32:53 PM
No. but it was the best riposte I could think of. LOL!
I'm not ALWAYS a genius poster. Win 99, lose 1 is what I always say. What should I have said if you were me? Just out of curiosity.
Your ego precedes you, like Dolly Parton's boobs precede her.
Quote from: pr126 on September 12, 2018, 12:41:56 PM
Cavebear wrote:
How soon before the same thing happens to our societies?
If people abandon their countries for an easier life elsewhere, their own countries will decay even more.
They have no incentive to make their lives better at home but taking their failed cultures, ideas, and customs and make the new countries that they arrived to just the same as the places they left.
Observe western Europe with its open borders.
You have the false idea that the people escaping their countries are educated professional hard working people.
That they will integrate and become productive citizens within weeks.
This is not the case.
Or closer to home, watch California, Chicago, New York or any of the Democrat-run sanctuary cities.
One scifi I liked ... turn Manhattan into a giant Alcatraz.
Quote from: pr126 on September 12, 2018, 12:41:56 PM
Cavebear wrote:
How soon before the same thing happens to our societies?
If people abandon their countries for an easier life elsewhere, their own countries will decay even more.
They have no incentive to make their lives better at home but taking their failed cultures, ideas, and customs and make the new countries that they arrived to just the same as the places they left.
Observe western Europe with its open borders.
You have the false idea that the people escaping their countries are educated professional hard working people.
That they will integrate and become productive citizens within weeks.
This is not the case.
Or closer to home, watch California, Chicago, New York or any of the Democrat-run sanctuary cities.
No one leaves their home country unless things get really desperate. The smartest people leave bad situations, the people who are so smart stay. Why do you think the European colonies in The New World succeeded in spite of hardships? Some brave people kept trying. And eventually, they succeeded.
It is the same almost everywhere. There are always some people in bad places who say "this is no way to live". And they dare to move to a new place that offers opportunities to smart people.
Do you know what usually happens when immigrants move to the US? The parents can't speak American. The children speak both. The grandparents speak only American. They are fully American and remain American. You can't tell them from me and my ancestors have been here for centuries.
Like the Irish, Italians, Jews, Russians, and the Germans etc, before then, they slowly "marry-in" and after a generation or 2 you can't tell where they came from. That is what made this country.
You are forgetting one major thing. Islam.
These young males who are 95% Muslim are religious with a mandate to spread the ideology.
At the infidels' expense.
"The first fundamental principle for the creation of a successfully visible Islamic society is to be separate and distinct.."
Germany's Muslim Demographic Future (https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9892/germany-muslims-demographic)
Modern Day Trojan Horse: Al-Hijra, the Islamic Doctrine of Immigration, Accepting Freedom or Imposing Islam? (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Modern-Day-Trojan-Horse-Immigration/dp/0979492955/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1536987777&sr=8-2&keywords=immigration+trojan+horse)
Quote from: pr126 on September 15, 2018, 01:09:38 AM
You are forgetting one major thing. Islam.
These young males who are 95% Muslim are religious with a mandate to spread the ideology.
At the infidels' expense.
"The first fundamental principle for the creation of a successfully visible Islamic society is to be separate and distinct.."
Germany's Muslim Demographic Future (https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9892/germany-muslims-demographic)
Modern Day Trojan Horse: Al-Hijra, the Islamic Doctrine of Immigration, Accepting Freedom or Imposing Islam? (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Modern-Day-Trojan-Horse-Immigration/dp/0979492955/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1536987777&sr=8-2&keywords=immigration+trojan+horse)
Are the young people in Middle Eastern nations really "95% muslim"? I would think most of them, as individuals. were 100% muslim (using your term). Are christians 95% christian?
What I meant was that 95% of the migrants are young males who belong to the Muslim religion.
Quote from: pr126 on September 15, 2018, 01:40:53 AM
What I meant was that 95% of the migrants are young males who belong to the Muslim religion.
I knew. But where does the 95% come from? Are there no older males or females or children? Are they all violent? Do none desire peace and democracy?
Quote from: pr126 on September 15, 2018, 01:40:53 AM
What I meant was that 95% of the migrants are young males who belong to the Muslim religion.
And they didn't take the time to get America and Europe like pussy!
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on September 15, 2018, 01:48:24 AM
And they didn't take the time to get America and Europe like pussy!
Would you please expand on that idea? I think it is generally offensive, but wish to give you a chance to explain what you meant.