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Humanities Section => Political/Government General Discussion => Topic started by: orcus on August 13, 2018, 02:53:06 PM

Title: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: orcus on August 13, 2018, 02:53:06 PM
Antifa says it fights fascists and neo-Nazis. But this weekend, members attacked cops and journalists. (https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/8/12/17681986/antifa-leftist-violence-clashes-protests-charlottesville-dc-unite-the-right)

Quote
Sunday’s counterprotests against the white nationalist “Unite the Right 2” rally in Washington, DC, were largely peaceful. Thousands of people held multiple rallies across the city to celebrate diversity and push back against the hateful views the white nationalists espouse.

But a few left-wing “antifa” (short for “anti-fascist”) counterprotesters did engage in violence, throwing eggs and water bottles and shooting fireworks at police officers and some journalists who were covering the demonstrations.

This is not the first time antifa protesters have been violent. In August 2017, about 100 anarchists and antifa members assaulted far-right demonstrators who were marching peacefully in Berkeley, California, with pepper spray, water bottles, and direct physical assault.

As Vox’s German Lopez wrote at the time, “The argument for antifa activists is that the current crop of right-wing protesters — which are partly but not entirely made up of neo-Nazis, KKK members, and other white supremacists and nationalists — are so extreme that they must be stopped swiftly and even violently.”

Lopez continued:

Antifa supporters worry that if these groups’ views aren’t completely robbed of any kind of platform, they could gain legitimacy — and take advantage of democratic ideals like free speech to, ironically, promote their undemocratic messages. Violence is one way to get them off the stage.

What this view misses is the backlash that may come from political violence: that such violence can reinforce right-wing views about the left. As Michael Kazin, a history professor at Georgetown University and editor of Dissent magazine, told me earlier this year, “[N]on-leftists often see [the left] as a disruptive, lawless force. Violence tends to confirm that view.”
This weekend in Charlottesville and DC, though, it wasn’t neo-Nazis and white supremacists the antifa attacked. It was police who were there to help keep the peace among all the demonstrators and journalists who were there to cover the events.

Yes.... yes.... bite the hand that feeds you, little imps.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Baruch on August 13, 2018, 08:46:52 PM
When the KKK actually comes out to play, I hope they have a bed to hide under ... because the bedsheets will already be in use.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: orcus on August 14, 2018, 12:50:38 AM
What?
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Shiranu on August 14, 2018, 01:38:46 AM
Quote
What this view misses is the backlash that may come from political violence: that such violence can reinforce right-wing views about the left.

100% agreed with this.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: pr126 on August 14, 2018, 01:49:05 AM
Yes. Fox News. Deal with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCFUyr0PxnQ
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Baruch on August 14, 2018, 05:15:14 AM
Not a partisan answer please.  Americans divide America.  Now or in 1861.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 14, 2018, 05:51:11 AM
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100% agreed with this.
However, the time and date would do the same thing for many of them. They're already invested in a solidly uncritical attitude toward other people of differing views. And that's true of people on both sides, of course. I have fun comparing hard right characters to SJW.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 14, 2018, 05:51:36 AM
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Yes. Fox News. Deal with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCFUyr0PxnQ
See what I mean?
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: orcus on August 15, 2018, 12:43:29 AM
hopefully a video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h84bjj9OMmc)

Seems like a collegial enough conversation, but they're perhaps unintentionally spitting in the face of a lot of Marxist professors and their golems. They just don't realize how angry, desperate, or straight up insane a lot of college leftists are.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Baruch on August 15, 2018, 12:51:16 AM
University of Chicago is grad school only, no undergraduates.  You have to have at least moved from diapers to pull-ups, to attend.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 15, 2018, 05:44:50 AM
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They just don't realize how angry, desperate, or straight up insane a lot of college leftists are.
So, just how angry, desperate, or straight up insane are they?
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: orcus on August 15, 2018, 09:58:54 AM
Special Snowflake (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQP3bsv600s&t=82s)
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Baruch on August 15, 2018, 01:05:56 PM
This is the result of drugging all the tykes with ADHD medicine from first grade onward.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: orcus on August 15, 2018, 02:02:23 PM
Yeah a lot of shifts in culture can be explained by what drugs are popular.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Munch on August 15, 2018, 03:52:04 PM
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This is the result of drugging all the tykes with ADHD medicine from first grade onward.

If that were true, why aren't all millennials like it?

I put it down to a combination of parents spoiling their kids telling them they can be anything they want, and uni professors re-enforcing those thoughts in another direction.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aTZ-CpINiqg

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h6wOt2iXdc4
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on August 15, 2018, 11:08:04 PM
Ah Antifa.

I firmly believe that if you say "I disagree with you so therefore I will punch you" that means you're a fascist.  Even if you call yourself an anti-fascist.  If you say "I disagree with you so therefore I will punch you" then you are a violent fuckhead with no place in civilized society.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Munch on August 16, 2018, 03:59:22 PM
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Ah Antifa.

I firmly believe that if you say "I disagree with you so therefore I will punch you" that means you're a fascist.  Even if you call yourself an anti-fascist.  If you say "I disagree with you so therefore I will punch you" then you are a violent fuckhead with no place in civilized society.

Quite so. As I these days adhere to 'i may disagree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it'.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Mermaid on August 16, 2018, 06:46:35 PM
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Quite so. As I these days adhere to 'i may disagree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it'.
Too bad our President doesn't adhere to that.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Baruch on August 16, 2018, 07:14:03 PM
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Too bad our President doesn't adhere to that.

I would be happy with a dictatorship ... but I would wish a better dictator than Trump ;-(
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: pr126 on August 17, 2018, 09:53:46 AM
Antifa == KLantifa.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Baruch on August 17, 2018, 01:12:10 PM
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Antifa == KLantifa.

We are all mixed up over here.  Liberal Majority and Conservative Minorities.  You can't tell the players without a player roster, and a lie detector test.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: pr126 on August 17, 2018, 01:58:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S2IFe6wuDQ
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Cavebear on August 22, 2018, 08:03:51 AM
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Ah Antifa.

I firmly believe that if you say "I disagree with you so therefore I will punch you" that means you're a fascist.  Even if you call yourself an anti-fascist.  If you say "I disagree with you so therefore I will punch you" then you are a violent fuckhead with no place in civilized society.

Actually, "yes".  If you disagree with someone and you punch them as a result, you are at the very least "extreme".  And I really don't care whether you a right-extreme or left-extreme. 
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Munch on August 22, 2018, 10:05:47 AM
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I would be happy with a dictatorship ... but I would wish a better dictator than Trump ;-(

I feel you should give us some examples of good dictators for comparison though
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: pr126 on August 22, 2018, 12:45:44 PM
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I feel you should give us some examples of good dictators for comparison though

Hillary Rodham Clinton? Everybody worshiped her.
Well, except the deplorables.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Baruch on August 22, 2018, 04:47:51 PM
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I feel you should give us some examples of good dictators for comparison though

Obama is an evil bastard.  I voted for him twice.  He speaks nice and the liberals worship him as a messiah.  I would have been happy with him as dictator.  Good dictator = effective dictator.  I really wouldn't mind making Republicans shit glass.  But what goes around comes around ... to Democrats.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Cavebear on September 15, 2018, 10:13:44 AM
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Hillary Rodham Clinton? Everybody worshiped her.
Well, except the deplorables.

Get real!  Democrats couldn't be a dictator if the great FDR HIMSELF returned and demanded it of them.  Well, THAT ought to get a rise...
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Sal1981 on September 15, 2018, 10:18:56 AM
This legitimizes far-right views for the wrong reasons. I mean, I think we can all agree that nazis are bad, but violence, protests & de-platforming against nazis is giving them a platform, ironically, to spread their nazi views.

I blame the regressive lefts foot-in-mouth behavior.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Cavebear on September 15, 2018, 10:33:11 AM
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This legitimizes far-right views for the wrong reasons. I mean, I think we can all agree that nazis are bad, but violence, protests & de-platforming against nazis is giving them a platform, ironically, to spread their nazi views.

I blame the regressive lefts foot-in-mouth behavior.

You are blaming the rusty nail for the tetnus shot you need after stepping on it. 

If you ignore nazis, they consider it "acceptance".  If you protest them, (by your argument) we are giving them a platform..  Like lose-lose arguments much? 

I'm not disagreeing with you much, just suggesting that objecting to nazis and other alt-right fanatics isn't wrong or purposeless.  Objecting to hateful people strengthens the community of people who object to them.

Hmmm, come to think of it, I AM objecting to your blaming the foot-in-mouth attitude.  A nazi knocks on my front door and I'll kick him in the balls and shove him off my front steps, and rub his face in poison ivy...
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on September 15, 2018, 10:35:44 AM
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Ah Antifa.

I firmly believe that if you say "I disagree with you so therefore I will punch you" that means you're a fascist.  Even if you call yourself an anti-fascist.  If you say "I disagree with you so therefore I will punch you" then you are a violent fuckhead with no place in civilized society.
The far left and the hard right meet somewhere beyond beyond. I love pointing out their similarities to them.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Sal1981 on September 15, 2018, 10:50:57 AM
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You are blaming the rusty nail for the tetnus shot you need after stepping on it. 

If you ignore nazis, they consider it "acceptance".  If you protest them, (by your argument) we are giving them a platform..  Like lose-lose arguments much? 

I'm not disagreeing with you much, just suggesting that objecting to nazis and other alt-right fanatics isn't wrong or purposeless.  Objecting to hateful people strengthens the community of people who object to them.

Hmmm, come to think of it, I AM objecting to your blaming the foot-in-mouth attitude.  A nazi knocks on my front door and I'll kick him in the balls and shove him off my front steps, and rub his face in poison ivy...
Then you're no better than antifa.

Instead of going all medieval on nazis, expose their broken ideology by, guess what, discussing their views front on. Violence only begets violence.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Cavebear on September 15, 2018, 10:52:19 AM
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The far left and the hard right meet somewhere beyond beyond. I love pointing out their similarities to them.

The hard left is less left than the hard right is right.  And I consider myself about 66% left.  The Democrats are far less left than Repubs are right. 
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Cavebear on September 15, 2018, 10:54:50 AM
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Then you're no better than antifa.

Instead of going all medieval on nazis, expose their broken ideology by, guess what, discussing their views front on. Violence only begets violence.

I'm not an anti-fa idiot.  I discuss nazi attitudes rationally.  Crazed loons of course, just as they were in WWII.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Baruch on September 15, 2018, 11:03:38 AM
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The hard left is less left than the hard right is right.  And I consider myself about 66% left.  The Democrats are far less left than Repubs are right.

Clintons and Obama were false flags ... Republicans all the way down.  Maybe that isn't a fair way to characterize a whole party.

Bush family are spooks ... Deep State all the way down.  Maybe that isn't a fair way to characterize a whole party.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Baruch on September 15, 2018, 11:06:13 AM
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You are blaming the rusty nail for the tetnus shot you need after stepping on it. 

If you ignore nazis, they consider it "acceptance".  If you protest them, (by your argument) we are giving them a platform..  Like lose-lose arguments much? 

I'm not disagreeing with you much, just suggesting that objecting to nazis and other alt-right fanatics isn't wrong or purposeless.  Objecting to hateful people strengthens the community of people who object to them.

Hmmm, come to think of it, I AM objecting to your blaming the foot-in-mouth attitude.  A nazi knocks on my front door and I'll kick him in the balls and shove him off my front steps, and rub his face in poison ivy...

The Spartans would go and cull the Helots (Greek slaves) once a year.  Training for their master race.  Should New England march thru Georgia once a year, to remind them who won the Civil War.  Gotta keep those red necks down on the farm.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Baruch on September 15, 2018, 11:09:41 AM
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The far left and the hard right meet somewhere beyond beyond. I love pointing out their similarities to them.

A good illustration ...

http://articulatingideas.blogspot.com/2016/08/the-political-spectrum-should-be-circle.html

All political parties are equal, in that they are all on the spectrum someplace.  But moderation is at one end of the circle, and extremism is at the other.  It is expecting too much (Man is a political animal - Aristotle) for people to give up politics.  But it is reasonable for them to be moderate in their indulgence of self destructive collective behavior.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Cavebear on September 23, 2018, 02:00:52 PM
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A good illustration ...

http://articulatingideas.blogspot.com/2016/08/the-political-spectrum-should-be-circle.html

All political parties are equal, in that they are all on the spectrum someplace.  But moderation is at one end of the circle, and extremism is at the other.  It is expecting too much (Man is a political animal - Aristotle) for people to give up politics.  But it is reasonable for them to be moderate in their indulgence of self destructive collective behavior.

I would love to see "one end of the circle". 
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Baruch on September 23, 2018, 02:14:59 PM
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I would love to see "one end of the circle".

With a circle, the center (on the strip) is anywhere you care to make it, but the politics isn't equal across the circle.  There is a definite center point, and an opposite extreme point.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Cavebear on September 23, 2018, 02:17:55 PM
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With a circle, the center (on the strip) is anywhere you care to make it, but the politics isn't equal across the circle.  There is a definite center point, and an opposite extreme point.

And still no "end" to the circle.  Admit it, you screwed the phrase.  I'll forgive you.  How does that spell-hand movement go?  Up, down, right, left?
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Baruch on September 23, 2018, 02:21:34 PM
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And still no "end" to the circle.  Admit it, you screwed the phrase.  I'll forgive you.  How does that spell-hand movement go?  Up, down, right, left?

You are a Mobius strip in flames ...
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Cavebear on September 23, 2018, 02:25:17 PM
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You are a Mobius strip in flames ...

And a Larry Niven Ringworld to you too!
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Baruch on September 23, 2018, 02:26:55 PM
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And a Larry Niven Ringworld to you too!

If they had built the Ringworld as one sided, it would have been a tyranny for sure.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Cavebear on September 23, 2018, 02:37:34 PM
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If they had built the Ringworld as one sided, it would have been a tyranny for sure.

I'm not sure that even makes sense.  But then, you type faster than I do.  The Ringworld had a top and bottom, but nothing existed on the bottom (no sunlight).  Yes, they checked.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Baruch on September 23, 2018, 02:42:11 PM
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I'm not sure that even makes sense.  But then, you type faster than I do.  The Ringworld had a top and bottom, but nothing existed on the bottom (no sunlight).  Yes, they checked.

Well obviously, with a regular flat sided ring with the star at the center of it.  But not as ambitious as a Dyson sphere.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Cavebear on September 23, 2018, 02:44:31 PM
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Well obviously, with a regular flat sided ring with the star at the center of it.  But not as ambitious as a Dyson sphere.

The Dyson Sphere was the next logical step.  No wasted sunlight.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Baruch on September 23, 2018, 02:45:53 PM
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The Dyson Sphere was the next logical step.  No wasted sunlight.

A Klein bottle would be better, then both sides would be lighted.
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Cavebear on September 23, 2018, 02:49:56 PM
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A Klein bottle would be better, then both sides would be lighted.

As I recall, they didn't need that. 
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Baruch on September 23, 2018, 02:53:11 PM
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As I recall, they didn't need that.

If it were a government project, they would end up with both sides in the dark ;-))
Title: Re: Antifa clashes with police and journalists in Charlottesville and DC
Post by: Cavebear on September 23, 2018, 02:58:33 PM
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If it were a government project, they would end up with both sides in the dark ;-))

They all ended up in the Light.  Except for the inner-orbiting slabs that allowed night.