https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxxdY6XT-yg
Those looked like Shia Muslim men, celebrating the martyrdom of Ali and Hussain.
Quote from: Baruch on July 31, 2018, 01:25:00 PM
Those looked like Shia Muslim men, celebrating the martyrdom of Ali and Hussain.
Correct.
I don't know how "the left" would describe islam, but I would describe it as 12th century christianity in terms of irrational crazed anger and murderous reaction to insult.
I think the Left will describe Islam as:
Mmmmm...
...as 12th century Christianity in terms of irrational crazed anger and murderous reaction to insult.
:cool:
I'm of the left and I describe it as a fiction--as are all religions.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 15, 2018, 11:13:46 AM
I'm of the left and I describe it as a fiction--as are all religions.
The global jihad is also a fiction. Along with the mass migration to colonize Europe.
Clearly a tin foil hat conspiracy.
Quote from: pr126 on August 15, 2018, 11:56:59 AM
The global jihad is also a fiction. Along with the mass migration to colonize Europe.
Clearly a tin foil hat conspiracy.
Alex Jones supports that idea, so it must be false.
Quote from: pr126 on August 15, 2018, 11:56:59 AM
The global jihad is also a fiction. Along with the mass migration to colonize Europe.
Clearly a tin foil hat conspiracy.
Just because Islam is a fiction does not mean they are not destructive. All religions are destructive to one extent or another.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 15, 2018, 03:23:00 PM
Just because Islam is a fiction does not mean they are not destructive. All religions are destructive to one extent or another.
He's doing that thing were he says something sarcastically to push you to the opposite conclusion. It's a very easily-spotted and easily resisted method of psychological manipulation.
Check this out:
Squirrels are peaceful. Squirrels never hurt anyone. No one should be alarmed at the growing ranks of squirrels pouring over our border with Canada. Sleep tight, America.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 15, 2018, 03:23:00 PM
Just because Islam is a fiction does not mean they are not destructive. All religions are destructive to one extent or another.
Humans = failed species ... no warp drive for you!
Quote from: Baruch on August 15, 2018, 06:46:40 PM
Humans = failed species ... no warp drive for you!
We're actually a very successful species.. too successful, we overpopulate across the globe and our presence threatens so many other species, environment and even the atmosphere.
We've evolved to live so much longer then once was expected, use so many resources, prevent ourselves from getting sick and cure diseases and injuries, boost our own immune system.
We improved ourselves to the determent of everything else.
Quote from: Munch on August 15, 2018, 08:17:15 PM
We're actually a very successful species.. too successful, we overpopulate across the globe and our presence threatens so many other species, environment and even the atmosphere.
We've evolved to live so much longer then once was expected, use so many resources, prevent ourselves from getting sick and cure diseases and injuries, boost our own immune system.
We improved ourselves to the determent of everything else.
Success = harmony not cacophony
Yes, all religions are destructive to some extent, some more and some less. Even mine.
In terms of per-capita I think Islam is the second worst religion in the world. Even worse than Christianity which has loads of problems. The problem with the per-capita rating system is that there are 1.8 Billion Muslims compared to 8 Million Scientologists, making them the worst in aggregate. Also, the moderates (they do exist) do a piss-poor job of reining in the extremists.
QuoteAlso, the moderates (they do exist) do a piss-poor job of reining in the extremists.
They cannot do that.
Theologically, they haven't got a leg to stand on. Jihad is mandated by Allah for every believing Muslim.
Not always by warfare, but by any other means possible.
Furthermore, if they are against jihad, they have deemed to be hypocrites, or worse, apostates.
Those can be killed according to Islamic law. (Quran 4:89)
Since 1948, 11 million Muslim were killed by other Muslims, who were not Muslim enough.
While we in the west only notice the fighting jihadist, there is a lot of other Muslim who are supporting the "extremist" read
true believers with money, weapons, moral support, logistics, planning, subterfuge, propaganda, infiltration into establishments, government positions, spying, mass immigration to spread Islam at your expense, dawah, etc. that is not immediately visible to the people. But it exists. Stealth jihad.
Terrorism is just a tiny part of jihad. There is far more happening without you noticing.
The Muslim Brotherhood in North America (Canada/USA) (https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/truthmustbetold/pages/93/attachments/original/1443021805/The_Muslim_Brotherhood_in_North_America.pdf?1443021805)
I love hearing guys from one group describes the thoughts of someone from a different mindset. It's almost like they can't understand what a hypocrite is
Quote from: PickelledEggs on August 16, 2018, 12:59:40 AM
I love hearing guys from one group describes the thoughts of someone from a different mindset. It's almost like they can't understand what a hypocrite is
Britain was aggressive, so why should they complain about other nations? The Kaiser and Hitler argued that too.
Quote from: pr126 on August 16, 2018, 12:16:29 AM
They cannot do that.
Theologically, they haven't got a leg to stand on. Jihad is mandated by Allah for every believing Muslim.
Not always by warfare, but by any other means possible.
Furthermore, if they are against jihad, they have deemed to be hypocrites, or worse, apostates.
Those can be killed according to Islamic law. (Quran 4:89)
Since 1948, 11 million Muslim were killed by other Muslims, who were not Muslim enough.
While we in the west only notice the fighting jihadist, there is a lot of other Muslim who are supporting the "extremist" read true believers with money, weapons, moral support, logistics, planning, subterfuge, propaganda, infiltration into establishments, government positions, spying, mass immigration to spread Islam at your expense, dawah, etc. that is not immediately visible to the people. But it exists. Stealth jihad.
Terrorism is just a tiny part of jihad. There is far more happening without you noticing.
The Muslim Brotherhood in North America (Canada/USA) (https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/truthmustbetold/pages/93/attachments/original/1443021805/The_Muslim_Brotherhood_in_North_America.pdf?1443021805)
Competition is human. If you can't compete, die already. Perhaps Europe finally is.
As a leftist, I would describe Islam as "wrong", just as I would describe all religions.
Quote from: Atheon on August 18, 2018, 02:02:58 AM
As a leftist, I would describe Islam as "wrong", just as I would describe all religions.
Is that a result of Leftist leanings, or just a co-ideology? Most here don't agree that atheism is a communist conspiracy ;-) Usually secular isn't equated to Left.
Religion is generally associated with the right, especially the fundamentalist versions. In the US, the Religious Right influences public policy. Radical Islam is about as far right wing as is possible to be. Religion demands unquestioning obedience to authority, which is a core trait of conservatism.
There is no such thing as "radical" Islam.
Islam is Islam.
There was one Muhammad, there is one Quran.
Muhammad and the Quran are Islam.
Edit: There is no "radical" Muslims either.
Just orthodox true believing Muslims following Muhammad (Q 33:21) and the Quran verbatim.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 15, 2018, 11:13:46 AM
I'm of the left and I describe it as a fiction--as are all religions.
Quote from: pr126 on August 15, 2018, 11:56:59 AM
The global jihad is also a fiction. Along with the mass migration to colonize Europe.
Clearly a tin foil hat conspiracy.
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 15, 2018, 03:50:40 PM
He's doing that thing were he says something sarcastically to push you to the opposite conclusion. It's a very easily-spotted and easily resisted method of psychological manipulation.
Maybe so, although I missed that. I thought PR was just making an honest mistake of non sequitur:
Mike believes Islam is a fantasy
Therefore Mike believes Jihad is a fantasy
But on further reflection, I think it's more likely that PR was just disregarding Mike, and that his response was intended to point that Jihad is an atrocity just in case no one realized it yet.
Well, I understand that Islam is a fantasy as it is built on a pack of lies by a mentally disturbed con man (Muhammad) who had frontal lobe epilepsy and was a malignant narcissist.
A warlord, slaver, rapist, child molester, torturer, a pirate - according to the Muslim sources.
However, the problem is that he has 1.6 billion followers and some of those still behave as it was 14 centuries ago still trying to emulate the "prophet".
A significant enough number to make the world unsafe for the rest of us.
That is what most people in the world either ignore or kept silent about.
We are at a point where Islam cannot be criticized, discussed at all in the public square without dire consequences.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on August 16, 2018, 12:59:40 AM
I love hearing guys from one group describes the thoughts of someone from a different mindset. It's almost like they can't understand what a hypocrite is
and I love seeing people on one political side accusing the opposing political side of being hypocritical when their own side does the same thing.
Quote from: pr126 on August 18, 2018, 02:35:14 AM
There is no such thing as "radical" Islam.
Islam is Islam.
There was one Muhammad, there is one Quran.
Muhammad and the Quran are Islam.
Edit: There is no "radical" Muslims either.
Just orthodox true believing Muslims following Muhammad (Q 33:21) and the Quran verbatim.
I understand this concept, and if we were to agree that Muslims have to be "all in" with regards to a specific holy book or they aren't true Muslims, then we would have to say the same is true of Christianity. You must be a true believer or you are not a believer. There wouldn't be many Christians left, they would be sympathizers at best. The same for Islam.
If Islam is different than Christianity in this fundamental way then you would be correct, and all those hordes coming into Europe would be potential terrorists. And you could be right about this, but we don't know that because you and I cannot understand what's on everyone else's mind.
Rather, I tend to think you exaggerate the threat. This is not saying there is no threat. You are under attack to be sure, but all secular Europeans aren't about to be murdered yet. But your lives will change. You already feel the pressure to comply with Islamic law. You resist it as any secularist would, just as secularists in America resist a Christian theocracy.
Edit: [Most] Religions all want to change society and seek compliance. This has been going on for thousands of years. Western civilization has had a brief respite for the last 100 years, but what we have experienced is an anomaly.
QuoteWestern civilization has had a brief respite for the last 100 years, but what we have experienced is an anomaly.
Not at all. It has been going on for 14 centuries and still happening.
Recommended reading:
The History of Jihad: From Muhammad to ISIS (https://www.amazon.co.uk/History-Jihad-Muhammad-ISIS-ebook/dp/B07D6X3TRT/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1534598360&sr=8-1&keywords=robert+spencer+the+history+of+jihad)
QuoteThe comprehensive history of the role of war and terror in the spread of Islam.
It is taken for granted, even among many Washington policymakers, that Islam is a fundamentally peaceful religion and that Islamic jihad terrorism is something relatively new, a product of the economic and political ferment of the twentieth century. But in The History of Jihad: From Muhammad to ISIS, Islamic scholar Robert Spencer proves definitively that Islamic terror is as old as Islam itself, as old as Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, who said “I have been made victorious through terror.â€
Spencer briskly traces the 1,400-year war of Islamic jihadis against the rest of the world, detailing the jihad against Europe, including the 700-year struggle to conquer Constantinople; the jihad in Spain, where non-Muslims fought for another 700 years to get the jihadi invaders out of the country; and the jihad against India, where Muslim warriors and conquerors wrought unparalleled and unfathomable devastation in the name of their religion.
Told in great part in the words of contemporary chroniclers themselves, both Muslim and non-Muslim, The History of Jihad shows that jihad warfare has been a constant of Islam from its very beginnings, and present-day jihad terrorism proceeds along exactly the same ideological and theological foundations as did the great Islamic warrior states and jihad commanders of the past.
The History of Jihad: From Muhammad to ISIS is the first one-volume history of jihad in the English language, and the first book to tell the whole truth about Islam’s bloody history in an age when Islamic jihadis are more assertive in Western countries than they have been for centuries. This book is indispensable to understanding the geopolitical situation of the twenty-first century, and ultimately to formulating strategies to reform Islam and defeat radical terror.
Quote from: SGOS on August 18, 2018, 09:16:01 AM
Western civilization has had a brief respite for the last 100 years, but what we have experienced is an anomaly.
Quote from: pr126 on August 18, 2018, 09:21:32 AM
Not at all. It has been going on for 14 centuries and still happening:
Quote
The History of Jihad: From Muhammad to ISIS is the first one-volume history of jihad in the English language, and the first book to tell the whole truth about Islam’s bloody history in an age when Islamic jihadis are more assertive in Western countries than they have been for centuries.
This acknowledges that Western countries have experienced a respite for centuries rather than "the last 100 years," and I wouldn't argue that.
Quote
This book is indispensable to understanding the geopolitical situation of the twenty-first century, and ultimately to formulating strategies to reform Islam and defeat radical terror.
In America, many would like to reform Christianity. In both Europe and America, we should also be aware that Muslims and Christians are also formulating their own strategies. Call it evil or just call it a natural aspect of human behavior. I think it's a reality.
Christianity in the US is free aka not Established by the State. So it takes 1000 forms. How is that not reform? But not all reforms are to your liking. Some will move toward tolerant pluralism, others will move to theocracy (Dominionism and Mormonism).
Marxist progress = Aristotelian teleology with socialism. It isn't real, and it is intellectually obsolete since Newton. Capitalist progress = Aristotelian teleology without socialism. All the ideas of socialism were formulated in ancient Athens, at least as plays, if not realities. Including Feminism and Pacifism. How is Cloud Cookoo-land by Aristophanes not a version of John Lennon.
Quote from: Munch on August 18, 2018, 09:12:43 AM
and I love seeing people on one political side accusing the opposing political side of being hypocritical when their own side does the same thing.
I don't see PickledEggs creating thread after thread, putting words in the mouths of Conservatives.
All religions are inherently violent. Christians hate everyone not christian. Moslems hate everyone not moslem. Hindus hate everyone not hindu. Little churches hate those who aren't them.
I just feel sorry for all theists because they live lives of dreams that won't be kept, deities who don't exist, and think that only their texts explain morality (when it all comes from older experience living in groups before religions).
Atheists aren't pacifists or free of hate.
QuoteAll religions are inherently violent.
Don’t forget the bloodthirsty Jains!
Btw, how many Christians strap bombs on themselves and exploding in markets, or run around with knives stabbing random people or driving cars into pedestrians? While screaming Jesus?
Quote from: pr126 on August 22, 2018, 07:08:24 AM
Don’t forget the bloodthirsty Jains!
Btw, how many Christians strap bombs on themselves and exploding in markets, or run around with knives stabbing random people or driving cars into pedestrians? While screaming Jesus?
All religions have bloodthirsty habits. They just vary.
1. Wisconsin Sikh Temple massacre, Aug. 5, 2012.
2. The murder of Dr. George Tiller, May 31, 2009.
3. Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church shooting, July 27, 2008
4. The murder of Dr. John Britton, July 29, 1994
5. The Centennial Olympic Park bombing, July 27, 1996
6. The murder of Barnett Slepian byJames Charles Kopp, Oct. 23, 1998.
7. Planned Parenthood bombing, Brookline, Massachusetts, 1994.
8. Suicide attack on IRS building in Austin, Texas, Feb. 18, 2010
9. The murder of Alan Berg, June 18, 1984.
10. Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City bombing, April 19, 1995
I hope that is sufficient.
All in the name of Christianity? As devout Christians?
Timothy McVeigh? Really?
Btw, the religion of peace is now at 33,700 terroris attacks since 9/11.
Slightly more than your list.
Quote from: Baruch on August 22, 2018, 06:21:43 AM
Atheists aren't pacifists or free of hate.
What a sage observation!! No shit, Charlie!!
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 22, 2018, 08:47:44 AM
What a sage observation!! No shit, Charlie!!
Cavebear had an immaculate conception in the bear cave, not the Bat Cave.
Quote from: pr126 on August 22, 2018, 08:05:14 AM
All in the name of Christianity? As devout Christians?
Timothy McVeigh? Really?
Btw, the religion of peace is now at 33,700 terroris attacks since 9/11.
Slightly more than your list.
Christians commit terrorism just as devoutly as Moslems and Hindus do. McVeigh was just one of them. You asked for examples. I provided them.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 27, 2018, 04:33:05 AM
Christians commit terrorism just as devoutly as Moslems and Hindus do. McVeigh was just one of them. You asked for examples. I provided them.
Wrong. He has stated being non religious, his act was political. But whatever.
Quote from: pr126 on August 27, 2018, 04:43:47 AM
Wrong. He has stated being non religious, his act was political. But whatever.
And why does that rule apply for Christians and not Muslims? Because there have been more than plenty of Muslims who expressively made themselves clear they were murdering for political reasons, and who you consistently mention, and you do not apply that standard to them. Instead you extrapolate from that that all Muslims must therefor be equally as evil and paint 1.6 billion people in the world with the same paintbrush as 1 or 2 individuals.
Do you really not see the double standard there?
Quote from: pr126 on August 27, 2018, 04:43:47 AM
Wrong. He has stated being non religious, his act was political. But whatever.
Timothy was deeply involved in the Cristian Identity Movement. Sorry.
Quote from: pr126 on August 27, 2018, 04:43:47 AM
Wrong. He has stated being non religious, his act was political. But whatever.
He was motivated by a radical preacher in Oklahoma. He supported the radical religion of the Branch Davidians. He saw the government suppressing religious extremists he agreed with. So yes, anti-government ... but motivated by religion.
Quote from: Baruch on August 27, 2018, 07:55:48 AM
He was motivated by a radical preacher in Oklahoma. He supported the radical religion of the Branch Davidians. He saw the government suppressing religious extremists he agreed with. So yes, anti-government ... but motivated by religion.
More a cult than a religion.
Quote from: pr126 on August 27, 2018, 08:16:14 AM
More a cult than a religion.
A cult is an immature religion. A religion is a mature cult. But both are still silly superstitions.
Quote from: pr126 on August 27, 2018, 08:16:14 AM
More a cult than a religion.
Hence Cavebear's point.