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Humanities Section => Political/Government General Discussion => Topic started by: orcus on July 06, 2018, 12:12:23 AM

Title: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: orcus on July 06, 2018, 12:12:23 AM
Wiki link for anyone interested (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnster_rebellion)

TL;DR the Munster Rebellion was an attempt by an anti-Catholic sect of Christianity to initiate a global uprising against the Church and the nobility in the name of equality. Like the French Revolution and the Communist Revolutions, this rebellion quickly descended into tyranny, with a succession of men declaring themselves King of Humanity and ordering the summary execution of anyone who disagreed with them.

This passage in particular

QuoteThey were polygamous and believed force was justified against anyone not in their sect.

should remind people of this

(https://media.nbcbayarea.com/images/620*349/DANNY+WITH+MASK.png)

It is strange that leftism only really took hold first in Christendom and spread to China only after contact with the West. Leftism really could not have developed in the absence of Christianity.
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: Shiranu on July 06, 2018, 12:37:47 AM
You are going to have to clarify which type of leftism you mean, since there is a marked difference between social leftism, nationalistic leftism, economic leftism, etc. .
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: orcus on July 06, 2018, 01:37:44 AM
Rule #1 of leftist sabotage: Overcomplicate

The Munster Rebellion, French Revolution, and the Communist Revolutions all came from the same impulse and ended more or less identically, they're all just different faces for the same parasitic cult.
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: Baruch on July 06, 2018, 06:19:47 AM
There have been many peasant revolts in history ... the Protestant Reformation (Luther wrote a tract "Against the Robbing and Murdering Hordes of Peasants") is more recent.  The poor have had too much, and they revolt.  Sometimes because of natural disaster, sometimes because of misrule by the Elite.

Leftism per-se is a peasant revolt that includes an intelligencia.  That couldn't happen until there were universities.  Revolts have been happening at colleges since they were founded in the Middle Ages.  There was a short war between the colleges of Oxford and the city of Oxford for example.  Of course back then, the universities were Church institutions, and remained so, until modern times.  The issues among rioting students in the Middle Ages would have been drinking and whoring ;-)  It was radical professors who started Protestantism (see Hus and Wycliffe even before Luther).  Once you had Protestant universities you got even less discipline (Newton), though already there were problems with Catholic professors (Galileo).  The Enlightenment happened out of that, not just in science ... but in the humanities.  Enlightenment professors in the humanities, are responsible for the French Revolution, the first modern peasant revolt.

So yes, in the context of Protestantism ... not caused by Protestantism.  But we can blame Plato most of all, the guy who created the first college.  Like the recent primary win in NY ... he was a radical, but from a privileged background.  Plato's Republic is a blueprint for much of subsequent political history, influencing both Aristotle (who wrote Politics) and Cicero (who wrote lots, and himself a leading politician).  Their works survive into the Middle Ages, serving as the textbooks.

The Munster rebellion was proto-Mormonism.  There were others who revolted against the Catholic Church.  The Albigensians for instance, the Waldensians and the Mennonites.  Mennonites and Waldensians were pacifists.
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: Mike Cl on July 06, 2018, 09:15:12 AM
Quote from: orcus on July 06, 2018, 01:37:44 AM
Rule #1 of leftist sabotage: Overcomplicate

The Munster Rebellion, French Revolution, and the Communist Revolutions all came from the same impulse and ended more or less identically, they're all just different faces for the same parasitic cult.
"parasitic cult"--ah, I see, you are talking about islam.
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: SGOS on July 06, 2018, 11:38:36 AM
Parasitic leftism is bad, so symbiotic leftism must be good.  Or am I just being triggered by adjectives, when "leftism" should be all the trigger I need?
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: Hydra009 on July 06, 2018, 11:51:17 AM
Quote from: orcus on July 06, 2018, 12:12:23 AMIt is strange that leftism only really took hold first in Christendom and spread to China only after contact with the West.
WoW!  That's really strange!  ...I think.

I mean, what are the odds that a european republican/anti-monarchial political movement ONLY spread to China after China came into contact with europeans?

Seriously, what are the odds?  100% or so?

QuoteLeftism really could not have developed in the absence of Christianity.
Correlation does not necessarily imply causation.
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: Hydra009 on July 06, 2018, 11:55:01 AM
Quote from: SGOS on July 06, 2018, 11:38:36 AM
Parasitic leftism is bad, so symbiotic leftism must be good.  Or am I just being triggered by adjectives, when "leftism" should be all the trigger I need?
You should also be triggered by the term "equality" since it necessarily means tyranny.  [/sarcasm mark]
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: SGOS on July 06, 2018, 12:10:02 PM
I'm still trying to figure out what that photo of a Muslim terrorist is doing in this thread.  It looks, like someone left him in charge of watching the hostages, and he's going to fall asleep if someone doesn't relieve him pretty soon. 
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: Hydra009 on July 06, 2018, 12:14:39 PM
Quote from: SGOS on July 06, 2018, 12:10:02 PMI'm still trying to figure out what that photo of a Muslim terrorist is doing in this thread.
It's a simple enough connection if you subscribe to right-wing news/narratives.

Leftists = Liberals = Socialists = Commies = Islamists = [almost anything distressing to conservatives].  All can be used interchangeably.
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: Baruch on July 06, 2018, 12:32:26 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on July 06, 2018, 11:51:17 AM
WoW!  That's really strange!  ...I think.

I mean, what are the odds that a european republican/anti-monarchial political movement ONLY spread to China after China came into contact with europeans?

Seriously, what are the odds?  100% or so?
Correlation does not necessarily imply causation.

China had peasant revolts ... it is what causes a dynasty to fall, leading to a new dynasty forming.
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: Baruch on July 06, 2018, 12:33:21 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on July 06, 2018, 12:14:39 PM
It's a simple enough connection if you subscribe to right-wing news/narratives.

Leftists = Liberals = Socialists = Commies = Islamists = [almost anything distressing to conservatives].  All can be used interchangeably.

The Left says the same things about the Right, just uses different labels.
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: orcus on July 06, 2018, 02:36:56 PM
It's Antifa, one of your guys.
Quote from: SGOS on July 06, 2018, 12:10:02 PM
I'm still trying to figure out what that photo of a Muslim terrorist is doing in this thread.  It looks, like someone left him in charge of watching the hostages, and he's going to fall asleep if someone doesn't relieve him pretty soon. 

It's an Antifa, one of your guys.
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: Shiranu on July 06, 2018, 06:17:56 PM
Crickets from the audience who says we need to be more central and less partisan...

Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: Baruch on July 06, 2018, 07:53:36 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on July 06, 2018, 06:17:56 PM
Crickets from the audience who says we need to be more central and less partisan...

Yes, a centrist like Castro ;-)  Cuba is at least an island, even if it isn't in the center of the Caribbean.
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: orcus on July 06, 2018, 09:55:44 PM
@Shiranu Basically you realize that the depths of the left's degeneracy has been called out and you're saying that to

1. Deflect and distract

And

2. Weakly disavow sympathy for them.
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: Shiranu on July 06, 2018, 10:06:00 PM
Actually, I recognize arguing with people like you is like slamming my dick in the door. It's not something I want to do, there is nothing productive about it, and the "head"ache (*badum toss*) is killer.


At the end of the day, in a week or two I will still be here, and you will be in the trash bin. Enjoy your stay while it lasts, don't let me bother you :).
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on July 06, 2018, 10:14:47 PM
So, another perpetuation of the single cause fallacy strikes again. Also, genetic fallacy. Yawn.
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: aitm on July 07, 2018, 05:15:51 AM
As a left handed person I take exceptional offense to the denigration of the us lefties by suggesting any social or political cause that one considers "wrong" to be leftists. So fuck you!



There....*washes hands*
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: Baruch on July 07, 2018, 08:17:41 AM
Quote from: aitm on July 07, 2018, 05:15:51 AM
As a left handed person I take exceptional offense to the denigration of the us lefties by suggesting any social or political cause that one considers "wrong" to be leftists. So fuck you!



There....*washes hands*

As a right handed person I take exceptional offense to the denigration of the us righties by suggesting any social or political cause that one considers "right" to be rightist.  We are just as "wrong" as the lefties.
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: aitm on July 07, 2018, 01:16:44 PM
Quote from: Baruch on July 07, 2018, 08:17:41 AM
We are just as "wrong" as the lefties.

Oh pllluuuuueeaaasseee. Science has PROVEN that lefties are far smarter, superior and probably better looking than righties.....I could toss in bigger genitalia but you may demand proof.
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2018, 02:02:12 AM
Quote from: aitm on July 07, 2018, 01:16:44 PM
Oh pllluuuuueeaaasseee. Science has PROVEN that lefties are far smarter, superior and probably better looking than righties.....I could toss in bigger genitalia but you may demand proof.

No, let your sex partner demand proof ;-)
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: orcus on July 08, 2018, 03:18:11 PM
You still have to wonder why these movements always behave like this. Why there's always a round of witch hunts, followed by military dictatorship.
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2018, 06:23:13 PM
Quote from: orcus on July 08, 2018, 03:18:11 PM
You still have to wonder why these movements always behave like this. Why there's always a round of witch hunts, followed by military dictatorship.

Sheep don't herd themselves, someone has to do the thankless job of being young David, that and killing uppity Philistine giants.

Fascism and Stalinism are both totalitarian, their differences didn't matter to much to the people in the Death Camps or the Gulag.

Yes, the French revolution was saved by Napoleon, their military dictator.  This is why Stalin had to purge and kill Trotsky .. Trotsky was the first head of the Red Army.  In Christian countries, that have revolutions, they are basically anti-Christian for obvious reasons.  Muslim revolutions are anti-Islamic ... which is they the US is helping SA to put down every secular Muslim regime.  Of course traditional politics was fun for the upper classes, it usually is ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ljd2MLlkg6g
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on July 08, 2018, 06:25:23 PM
Quote from: orcus on July 08, 2018, 03:18:11 PM
You still have to wonder why these movements always behave like this. Why there's always a round of witch hunts, followed by military dictatorship.
Because any social change requiring the culture to change that fast and that drastically requires both. When fascists take power, a similar thing happens.
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: Baruch on July 08, 2018, 06:56:53 PM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on July 08, 2018, 06:25:23 PM
Because any social change requiring the culture to change that fast and that drastically requires both. When fascists take power, a similar thing happens.

And in the end, they all fail.  Revolutions falter and fade, even when "successful".  We still have slavery in the US, for teenage girls.  Today we don't expropriate Native Americans, we go to other continents for that (see Libya).
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: orcus on July 09, 2018, 12:33:09 AM
I like Carl Jung's explanation. Basically, mass mobilizations, including mass movements, provide the substrate necessary for the rise of dictators, and ultimately, this necessary condition becomes a sufficient one. That's why it's a suicidal fallacy to create a mass movement for the purpose of preventing/overthrowing dictatorship. It's like giving a man a gun to keep him from robbing you.
Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: Cavebear on July 09, 2018, 12:58:03 AM
Quote from: orcus on July 06, 2018, 09:55:44 PM
@Shiranu Basically you realize that the depths of the left's degeneracy has been called out and you're saying that to

1. Deflect and distract

And

2. Weakly disavow sympathy for them.

The Left is not degenerate.  When the Right tears children from their parents and cages them with no intent of reuniting them, merely to create terror in people arriving here legally seeking asylum, THAT is degenerate.

When the Right destroys health care plans that were created to keep most of the populace insured, preferring to give maximum profit to companies instead, THAT is degenerate. 

When the Right works to put low-wage workers into poverty for company profits of company executives and stock-holders who already have millions, THAT is degeneracy. 

I want poor children to have an escape from poverty through a decent education.  I want responsible parents to be able to support a family in a home by one job.  I want diversity in government.  The government should reflect the populace. 

Ours is a Government of the people, by the people, for the people.  You don't get to define "the people".  They are those who are here.


Title: Re: Is all leftism basically a derivative of an early Protestant cult?
Post by: Baruch on July 09, 2018, 01:23:50 PM
Lincoln was a hick lawyer from Illinois.  No joy there.