https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSV9S2Ol3bc
The petroleum must flow!
This is why peasant revolts must be suppressed ... by being instigated by agent provocateurs ... see Arab Spring.
It's more of a hegemony. "Empire" implies the ability to govern, directly or indirectly.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on June 23, 2018, 06:29:16 PM
It's more of a hegemony. "Empire" implies the ability to govern, directly or indirectly.
The US has almost no influence in The Middle East. The People and Governments in The Middle East are entirely responsible for events there.
Quote from: Cavebear on June 24, 2018, 11:44:16 PM
The US has almost no influence in The Middle East. The People and Governments in The Middle East are entirely responsible for events there.
The biggest lie about the CIA, is that they control everyone, everywhere. Never met one, but I doubt they put they pants on ... two legs at a time.
Certainly I would doubt the US controls the Turkish election today, or even the Mexican election. Getting people to believe lies is soft power. But if you don't have bullets to back it up, your position collapses as soon as people see the Emperor has no clothes.
Quote from: Cavebear on June 24, 2018, 11:44:16 PM
The US has almost no influence in The Middle East. The People and Governments in The Middle East are entirely responsible for events there.
Back during the Bush Invasion, I was giving my position on avoiding an invasion of Iraq to a woman who had been paying close attention to all of the Bush propaganda. To cut me off she said just one thing, "Those people deserve to be free." I dropped the conversation right there, for to contradict her would sound heartless to an SJW, even if she was a neo conservative SJW. And "Freeing the Iraqi People" was part of the propaganda strategy of the neocons. Yes conservatives can go SJW on a dime when it suits the rest of their agenda, and no one is above virtue signaling, unless it's from the people they hate. Hypocrisy is alive and well and permeates humanity even those who are the most self righteous.
What I left unsaid, was as you put it, "People and their governments are responsible for their events." Freedom is not something that is bestowed by benevolent dictators or corrupt politicians. It must be craved and fought for by those who demand it. And some perverted sense of freedom like, "Let's let the Shiites oppresses the Sunnis for a change," is a horribly perverted freedom not worthy of the name. You will never have freedom if you don't understand what it actually is. Otherwise you get policy changes, like hanging fallen women instead of stoning them, or your group now gets plumb government jobs instead of the other group.
This should not sound like some heartless assessment. It's an observation of human nature, and the same perverted sense of freedom exists in America, where the righteous would impose their will on others, and if and when the demographics of the country changes, this will happen because the people and their governments are responsible.
Quote from: SGOS on June 25, 2018, 04:18:11 AM
Back during the Bush Invasion, I was giving my position on avoiding an invasion of Iraq to a woman who had been paying close attention to all of the Bush propaganda. To cut me off she said just one thing, "Those people deserve to be free." I dropped the conversation right there, for to contradict her would sound heartless to an SJW, even if she was a neo conservative SJW. And "Freeing the Iraqi People" was part of the propaganda strategy of the neocons. Yes conservatives can go SJW on a dime when it suits the rest of their agenda, and no one is above virtue signaling, unless it's from the people they hate. Hypocrisy is alive and well and permeates humanity even those who are the most self righteous.
What I left unsaid, was as you put it, "People and their governments are responsible for their events." Freedom is not something that is bestowed by benevolent dictators or corrupt politicians. It must be craved and fought for by those who demand it. And some perverted sense of freedom like, "Let's let the Shiites oppresses the Sunnis for a change," is a horribly perverted freedom not worthy of the name. You will never have freedom if you don't understand what it actually is. Otherwise you get policy changes, like hanging fallen women instead of stoning them, or your group now gets plumb government jobs instead of the other group.
This should not sound like some heartless assessment. It's an observation of human nature, and the same perverted sense of freedom exists in America, where the righteous would impose their will on others, and if and when the demographics of the country changes, this will happen because the people and their governments are responsible.
I understand and that was mostly my point. At some point, no outsides can resolve the endless and complicated Middle East issues.
If I was theistic, I would say let them all kill each other and let God sort them out. But I'm not, so I have to hope that reason will eventually prevail without the slightest expectation that it will.
That works for Europe. Your quote "let G-d sort it out" was a quote from the Papal legate at the extermination of the citizens of Bezier France, during the Albigensian Crusade of N France against S France. Think of Madrid against Barcelona today.
Quote from: Baruch on June 25, 2018, 06:53:27 AM
That works for Europe. Your quote "let G-d sort it out" was a quote from the Papal legate at the extermination of the citizens of Bezier France, during the Albigensian Crusade of N France against S France. Think of Madrid against Barcelona today.
Duh! Did you actually think I didn't know the origin of the phrase? You really annoy me sometimes... EVERYTIME I bother to peek at one of your posts, I find something either obvious or insulting my intelligence.
Congrats, you managed BOTH this time.
Quote from: Cavebear on June 25, 2018, 07:05:50 AM
Duh! Did you actually think I didn't know the origin of the phrase? You really annoy me sometimes... EVERYTIME I bother to peek at one of your posts, I find something either obvious or insulting my intelligence.
Congrats, you managed BOTH this time.
See, if you are omniscient ... you aren't a demi-god like me, you are G-d ;-) You are insulted anytime someone doesn't worship the cats and plants you walk on.
Quote from: Cavebear on June 25, 2018, 07:05:50 AM
. EVERYTIME I bother to peek at one of your posts, I find something either obvious or insulting my intelligence.
smart fisherman learn to either change bait or change where they fish..
poor fisherman simply stop fishing.
:P~
Quote from: aitm on June 25, 2018, 09:25:16 PM
smart fisherman learn to either change bait or change where they fish..
poor fisherman simply stop fishing.
:P~
First, let me say I understand your profferred advice. That doesn't mean I agree with it, but I do seriously note it and thought about it. I respect your opinion.
But to continue your analogy, you sometimes catch fish you don't want, consider pests, or do not fight well.
Baruch is all of those to me.
When I engage with him, I get poor jokes, irrelevant replies, and too much nonsense. My weakness is that I WANT to find meaning in his posts and way too often fail to see any.
It's not personal; I actually LIKE the guy (personally). He would be welcome on my deck for a BBQ (as would you and most members here of course). Its just that I consider him mostly a pest onsite, a person dedicated to accumulating post-count irrespective of whether the posts make any sense, and "noise" in the general discussion. My personal opinion is that he never actually adds much to the general conversation, and actually diminishes from it by nonsensical statements.
I have tried to engage him rationally at times (without much success) , ignored him at times (because he encourages/causes me to sink to his level of bad posts) and I am probably more comfortable just ignoring him with an occasional reply when I see him quoted by others.
So, in what way is that wrong?
Well, you asked, and I replied...
Meaningful from me ...
1. I like you
2. I respect you
3. You are even more senile than I am
American foreign policy is more or less and extension of British foreign policy since 1917 ... but what does the mean? It means going all over the world getting our noses into other people's business ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t86J_zZjjq4