Note: Comments are apparently not going to be anything to do with the topic, so if you want to ignore two idiots saying stupid shit on a forum... just don't scroll down very far.
https://www.theroot.com/a-brief-history-of-people-using-romans-13-to-justify-wh-1826875704?utm_source=theroot_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow (https://www.theroot.com/a-brief-history-of-people-using-romans-13-to-justify-wh-1826875704?utm_source=theroot_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow)
QuoteAround A.D. 49, the Roman emperor Claudius expelled the Jews from the city of Rome. Historians argue about the exact date and the reasons, but we know that Claudius did not want them holding office or bringing in more immigrants. Instead, he wrote that the Jews (pdf) “should rest content with what belongs to them by right and enjoy an abundance of all good things in a city which is not theirs. They must not bring in or invite Jews who sail in from Syria or Egypt; this is the sort of thing which will compel me to have my suspicions redoubled.†The Jews, according to Claudius, were running in gangs, opening the borders and taking the good jobs from the true Romans.
Sound familiar?
As this was happening, one of the early Jewish leaders of a new sect called “Christianity†was composing a letter to his church. In the epistle, he told his oppressed minority of followers to avoid causing trouble with the most powerful government in the world. He wrote;
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? Do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same. â€"A Letter to the Roman Church From the Apostle Paul, Chapter 13, Verses 1-3
If you have ever wondered why slaves adopted the religious philosophy of their slave masters, Romans 13 is your answer. If you wanted to know why slaves, who often outnumbered slave masters, rebelled so rarely, the answer lies in Romans 13. To understand why the Bible was the only book many slaves were allowed to own, read that verse again.
Christianity was adopted by people, rulers and governments all around the globe because it tells its followers to comply. It boasts of a benevolent God who knows best; even when you are the subject of brutality, the Bible tells you that this is what God wants. At the root of Romans 13 is an edict to obey authority.
Almost 2,000 years after Paul’s letter, the 13th chapter of Paul’s instruction to the Romans is still being used to silence, warn and squash minority populations. When U.S. Attorney General Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III quoted the verse Thursday to explain the Trump administration’s gestapolike policy of ripping babies from the arms of their mothers and throwing the children into internment camps, he was simply the latest in a long line of white people who used that verse to justify white supremacy.
In the famous 1950s Presbyterian article “How to Detect a Liberal in the Pulpit,†the eventual formation of the segregationist Presbyterian Church in America was foreshadowed when the writer explained that liberal ministers “will be frequently found leading racial demonstrations, supporting workers in a strike ... supporting the right of the Communist Party to engage in its activity in this country, and in giving his approval to the decision of the Supreme Court removing the Bible and other Christian influences from the schools of the nation.â€
In their opinion, sit-ins, protests and civil disobedience as a whole were explicitly against Paul’s instructions to Christians. Rosa Parks, the Freedom Riders and even participants in the Children’s March were all sinners in the eyes of an angry white God, according to Romans 13.
God is even given as a reason why black people should stop resisting when they are shot by corrupt cops. Recently, Romans, chapter 13, was used to disparage the Black Lives Matter movement.
Despite the fact that Micah Johnson, who killed five Dallas police officers in 2016, was never connected to any organizations, Robert Jeffress, the head of one of the largest congregations in the area, condemned Black Lives Matter and said that he was sick of preachers disrespecting police because “the New Testament says in Romans 13:4 that law enforcement officers are ministers of God sent by God to punish evildoers.†(Coincidentally, this is the same pastor who said that NFL players should be happy they weren’t shot in the head for kneeling during the national anthem.)
The article focuses perhaps too much on the white part rather than the power part, but I certainly understand why since white people are the one's who benefit from this ideology at the cost of everyone else. I just feel that making that point too much leaves the article a bit suspect to being accused of being "anti-white", so I do wish it had clearly illustrated that one group or another would have had this power, it's just whites who managed to capitalize on it first.
The main point to take away is how Christian ideology is still used to this day, and has been used throughout even modern history, to justify some absolutely horrific atrocities and bigotries, some of which posters here are influenced by their culture even if they are no longer religious.
God I love being the product of clean, pure, gaelic stock. Whites rule. I'm sorry that you're a dirty, mixed bug-man.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on June 17, 2018, 12:24:43 AM
God I love being the product of clean, pure, gaelic stock. Whites rule. I'm sorry that you're a dirty, mixed bug-man.
Every time I encounter someone proud of being white, they make me more and more proud to be mixed. If you and your ilk are the epitome of ethnic purity, than ethnic purity is a disease.
But hey, enjoy your "pure blood". I'll just enjoy my lower rate of disease, being statistically more attractive, having a complexion that can actually handle sunlight without burning off, and the fact that my ancestors have been infinitely more relevant to world history than yours... which, if we are going to talk about being proud of our heritage should probably be the number one thing to consider.
I'm proud to be white, and I'm proud to be brown. I'm sorry that you don't have that pleasure of having multiple cultural backgrounds to be proud of.
Quote from: Shiranu on June 17, 2018, 12:47:39 AM
being statistically more attractive, having a complexion that can actually handle sunlight without burning off, and the fact that my ancestors have been infinitely more relevant to world history than yours... which, if we are going to talk about being proud of our heritage should probably be the number one thing to consider.
[admin]images removed - PickelledEggs[/admin]
Droopy eyes, no jaw, soy face. You are the poster-child of a self-hating white (muddied) cucked out on social justice because of extremely low T levels.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on June 17, 2018, 12:51:43 AM
[admin]images removed - PickelledEggs[/admin]
Droopy eyes, no jaw, soy face. You are the poster-child of a self-hating white (muddied) cucked out on social justice because of extremely low T levels.
*shrug*
Still getting both more dick and more ladies than you, so apparently it's not all bad :).
It's sure as fuck not my personality attracting them :P.
Also, had to look up what soy face is, and that doesn't even describe me. Though I do find it hilarious yall have a term for that, so thanks for the laugh :D.
Also; grows a beard that puts Leonidas to shame, has a voice as deep as James Earl Jones... "low T cuck!".
You're gonna have to try a little bit harder, I'm afraid.
L O W T M A L E
Quote from: Gilgamesh on June 17, 2018, 01:03:29 AM
L O W T M A L E
Please daddy big dick, stop derailing my thread or I might just have to daintly slap you across your massive man bulges that make me pee myself.
Real talk though; you are kind of both a complete moron and a lunatic, should I be concerned about how quickly you found a picture of me from like... a year and half or more ago after making racist remarks about me? At the moment I am taking it as a complement, but just hmu if that is not how you mean it.
[admin]images removed - PickelledEggs[/admin]
You know I wouldn't upload goofy photos of myself on the internet if I wasn't comfortable with how I look, right? You are really choosing the wrong avenue to attack me down.
Also, wow... an over three year old photo. That just got even creepier, my doggie. I know, I know, many men are enamored with me, but slow your roll... acting that desperate will never get me in your pants.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on June 17, 2018, 12:24:43 AM
God I love being the product of clean, pure, gaelic stock. Whites rule. I'm sorry that you're a dirty, mixed bug-man.
Don't parsel-tongue in front of the non-Slitheren. The deity who must not be named, will not be amused.
Shiranu is Far Left,
Pr is Far Right,
Here I'm stuck in thee middle,
But I'd punch both with all my might.
I have to wonder about the authenticity of that verse. It seems exactly like the sort of thing that would be added after the Roman government became Christian. Very convenient for those in power to be immune from criticism because God supposedly ordained them. Also kinda funny that Conservative Christians would embrace that theology, considering it was rebellion that created this country in the first place.
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 17, 2018, 02:10:15 AM
Shiranu is Far Left,
Pr is Far Right,
Here I'm stuck in the middle,
But I'd punch both with all my might.
Unless they are bigger and stronger than you.
You are not in the middle, more like left.
Quote from: pr126 on June 17, 2018, 02:24:39 AM
Unless they are bigger and stronger than you.
You are not in the middle, more like left.
People on the extreme ends always think centrists are on the other side.
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 17, 2018, 02:17:33 AM
I have to wonder about the authenticity of that verse. It seems exactly like the sort of thing that would be added after the Roman government became Christian. Very convenient for those in power to be immune from criticism because God supposedly ordained them. Also kinda funny that Conservative Christians would embrace that theology, considering it was rebellion that created this country in the first place.
They did remember rebellion, but only for White folk, and they re-rebelled in 1861. Rebellion isn't a panacea. And yes, the Romans were editing the NT all along the way, unofficially or officially. People might read it and get confused.
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 17, 2018, 02:36:32 AM
People on the extreme ends always think centrists are on the other side.
Am I an "extremist"?
Quote from: pr126 on June 17, 2018, 02:40:25 AM
Am I an "extremist"?
You seem one-issue obsessed ... but I see your cooking and gardening posts. I think you are an gastronome cat lover who is in a country falling apart. Most old people get paranoid, normal development. Too much cumulative change. Too much disillusionment.
The British Empire was falling apart in 1914, internally and externally. Without accidental differential power from localized industrial revolutions, the Europeans wouldn't have had colonial empires in the first place. Britain would have had to confine the depredation to the usual suspects .. Ireland, Scotland and France.
Quote from: pr126 on June 17, 2018, 02:40:25 AM
Am I an "extremist"?
Would you say right wingers are extremists? The two words may sound alike, but extreme ≠extremist.
I am soynter-left.
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 17, 2018, 02:53:18 AM
Would you say right wingers are extremists? The two words may sound alike, but extreme ≠extremist.
Wanting to punch people with all your might is centrist? How?
That is what Antifa does.
Quote from: pr126 on June 17, 2018, 03:01:07 AM
Wanting to punch people with all your might is centrist? How?
He did say he wanted to punch both sides. It doesn't get much more middle of the road than that.
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 17, 2018, 03:04:08 AM
He did say he wanted to punch both sides. It doesn't get much more middle of the road than that.
He should join Antifa.
Quote from: pr126 on June 17, 2018, 03:15:12 AM
He should join Antifa.
Hmmm. So you are now admitting Antifa are not, infact, leftists but just radicals...
Maybe progress IS being made.
What is the difference between right and far right?
The “far†turns it into a prejorative.
QuoteWhat is the difference between right and far right?
Quite alot actually. Which is why you don't see me saying that anyone to the right of me is racist, is bigoted, is whatever... it's people who act racist who are racist, who are bigoted that are bigoted, and so forth.
That's the fundamental difference... I don't run around talking about how everyone left (or right) of me, or of a different belief than me, is inherently evil or on the brink of being evil. I don't post youtube videos about someone ranting on about how we are at the precipice of disaster with either the left or the Muslims being just minutes away from completely destabilizing Western culture.
Not everything is black and white like that, and I'm not going to generalize hundreds of millions of people just because there are bad seeds amongst them. It feels stupid to have to ask for that type of respect in return, but I also realise the people who don't show it are just big of nutjobs as the radicals they condemn... I don't just condemn everyone who agrees with them on smaller things.
Quote from: Shiranu on June 17, 2018, 03:52:08 AM
Not everything is black and white like that, and I'm not going to generalize hundreds of millions of people just because there are bad seeds amongst them. It feels stupid to have to ask for that type of respect in return, but I also realise the people who don't show it are just big of nutjobs as the radicals they condemn... I don't just condemn everyone who agrees with them on smaller things.
I call bullshit, when you open a topic doing just that, against white people.
And since you are mixed race, this isn't one of those 'i can because I am' things, no, your just as bigoted as those you accuse
Quote from: Shiranu on June 17, 2018, 02:44:59 AM
To a centralist, yes.
Also your very clearly not a centrist, so stop pretending you are.
Quote from: Munch on June 17, 2018, 07:13:40 AM
Also your very clearly not a centrist, so stop pretending you are.
"I'm more moderate than you, no you aren't, yes I am ... " from Annie Get Your Ideology
Antifa is no longer in the news ... why? Their controllers (Deep State) have shut them down temporarily. Same as the Nazi Brown/Black Shirts or Soviet (pre Lenin) labor agitators. Antifa was a tool of Stalin originally.
"completely destabilizing Western culture" ... the West does this without politics, without Muslims, it is called "destruction capitalism" or "chaos capitalism" ... if there is no change, there is no opportunity, so mega capitalism is now big enough to rock our boat just to prevent stagnation, and to create opportunity. Of course this is only good for the one's rocking the boat. If the 20o8-2009 crisis didn't happen, it would have been necessary to create it. And the next boat rocking is coming very soon ... gotta burn some poor people to keep warm, don'tcha know. Politics and Muslims and Africans and Latin Americans are just secondary items. There will be one-world currency, you will be chipped ... for the children. Remember to moo when you are treated as cattle, if not chattel.
Past is prologue ... even in scifi ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvYulbPo0LQ
Quote from: Munch on June 17, 2018, 07:09:53 AM
I call bullshit, when you open a topic doing just that, against white people.
And since you are mixed race, this isn't one of those 'i can because I am' things, no, your just as bigoted as those you accuse
Edit - And first off, wow... this thread is not even about white people, I even went out of my way to say I wish the link has focused less on the fact white people are the ones who benefit from it and rather had focused on that it was whatever group is in power that benefits from it. That seems pretty expressly not anti-white when I am defending them...
Again, I'm extremely proud of my white heritage, so I'm not exactly sure how I am bigoted towards white people.
Pointing out flaws in a community =/= bigotry. Using racial slurs, proposing that an entire race or philosophy is "the bad guy" and inherently evil so we must fear them and do what we can lest they overwhelm our society = bigotry.
It's a subtle difference, but it's there.
And I never pretended to be at the centre, I was just stating a fact. Centralists would find me to be to the left of them, and that's okay. I just don't pretend to be representing the central ideology, though I would argue my social views do coincide more with theirs than the right; after all the things I support are generally supported by a majority of the population making them not particularly extreme.
Not trying to be a dick - and usually I am - but it's centrists; not centralists.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on June 17, 2018, 11:34:27 AM
Not trying to be a dick - and usually I am - but it's centrists; not centralists.
Extremists say ... "fence sitters". Hated by both sides.
Quote from: Baruch on June 17, 2018, 08:40:54 AM
-snip-
So what your more or less saying is, there needs to be a balance of right and left to cancel each other out?
I agree if that's the case, and honestly we can see it happening even today
Quote from: Munch on June 17, 2018, 12:03:30 PM
So what your more or less saying is, there needs to be a balance of right and left to cancel each other out?
I agree if that's the case, and honestly we can see it happening even today
Lack of balance makes one a Fiddler Crab. But you can find employment in Gypsy restaurants ;-)
The question is, can we re-balance time and again, without violence.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on June 17, 2018, 12:24:43 AM
God I love being the product of clean, pure, gaelic stock. Whites rule. I'm sorry that you're a dirty, mixed bug-man.
Get it right! Mud People--not bug-man!
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 17, 2018, 02:17:33 AM
I have to wonder about the authenticity of that verse. It seems exactly like the sort of thing that would be added after the Roman government became Christian. Very convenient for those in power to be immune from criticism because God supposedly ordained them. Also kinda funny that Conservative Christians would embrace that theology, considering it was rebellion that created this country in the first place.
I think I know where you are coming from, Blackleaf, but what part of the bible is authentic--and authentic to who or what?
As I have learned, the entire bible is simply a conglomeration of what various people thought and it was stitched together from a huge amount of previous written work with most of the unused portions destroyed. It seems to me that all of the bible (new and old) was created to control the general population. In that respect, it has been wildly successful!
Leaders were always trying to find ways to cement their power; the term 'christ' is an example. When one was anointed with oil and deemed a Christ, one was then under the control of god and what one said and did was from god. Romans 13 very early did the same for Christians. The Divine Right of Kings has long haunted and controlled history and kept those in power in power. The French Revolution tried to change that--liberals come from the word 'liberty' and they wanted to liberate society from the clutches of Rom. 13 (Divine Right of Kings) while the conservatives wanted to conserve the old ways and keep Rom. 13 fully operational.
In this country today, Trump is seen as falling under the purview of Rom. 13--so all that he says and does is from and for god. This is one of the reasons he actually could go into Times Square and shoot somebody in the head for all to see and get away with it. Trump can do what he wants and his faithful will craft the reasons to support it.
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 17, 2018, 12:45:52 PM
I think I know where you are coming from, Blackleaf, but what part of the bible is authentic--and authentic to who or what?
As I have learned, the entire bible is simply a conglomeration of what various people thought and it was stitched together from a huge amount of previous written work with most of the unused portions destroyed. It seems to me that all of the bible (new and old) was created to control the general population. In that respect, it has been wildly successful!
Leaders were always trying to find ways to cement their power; the term 'christ' is an example. When one was anointed with oil and deemed a Christ, one was then under the control of god and what one said and did was from god. Romans 13 very early did the same for Christians. The Divine Right of Kings has long haunted and controlled history and kept those in power in power. The French Revolution tried to change that--liberals come from the word 'liberty' and they wanted to liberate society from the clutches of Rom. 13 (Divine Right of Kings) while the conservatives wanted to conserve the old ways and keep Rom. 13 fully operational.
In this country today, Trump is seen as falling under the purview of Rom. 13--so all that he says and does is from and for god. This is one of the reasons he actually could go into Times Square and shoot somebody in the head for all to see and get away with it. Trump can do what he wants and his faithful will craft the reasons to support it.
See my new post under History ... under How Did Islam Destroy The Classical World string ... regarding the purpose of fiction in human culture.
You can't escape fictive pseudo-reality without being a nihilist. So most people simple are narrow minded, and ignore the fact that they are narrow minded. There is really nothing wrong with the belief system of the Mongol Horde ... unless you are its victim. People who are overly individual rightfully feel threatened by whatever majority surrounds them. They have nothing in common with their neighbors.
Quote from: Munch on June 17, 2018, 07:13:40 AM
Also your very clearly not a centrist, so stop pretending you are.
Yeah,
@Shiranu... you're not centrist in the slightest, buddy.... lol You are very, very left.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on June 17, 2018, 02:00:59 PM
Yeah, @Shiranu... you're not centrist in the slightest, buddy.... lol You are very, very left.
I never claimed I was. I'm not sure why I'm being attacked for something I never even implied...
But I will argue that my ideology is, on most issues, in line with the majority opinion on the topics, so I find it weird to be accused of being far left.
Quote from: Shiranu on June 17, 2018, 02:21:24 PM
I never claimed I was. I'm not sure why I'm being attacked for something I never even implied...
But I will argue that my ideology is, on most issues, in line with the majority opinion on the topics, so I find it weird to be accused of being far left.
Oh right, sorry I misread that.
I wouldn't say you're extremist either (i backtracked the conversation), but I would say you are very very far left.
It's tough to see the forest through the trees... oddly enough, I get more flack from people on both sides than I care to deal with. It's exhausting and tbh, I stopped caring. The fact that I constantly get accused of both being right winged and left winged at the same time, for the same exact comments I make, gives me a frame of reference that I am more in a centrist mindset.
If you think you are not far left because you are in agreement with most people... I would try to re-think that....
The US has a very, VERY strong left and right. People say it's more right winged than most countries, but those people don't understand that it's also more left winged than most countries at the same time. It's very divided. So when you take a stance that is in agreement with "most people" it's likely it's about half the people, and the other half is the opposition, obviously... but since your social group isnt in the opposition, you don't see them as the majority, you see yourself as the majority... and possibly as the center of it....
Now, for someone that thinks he's centrist, like myself (I would say I'm a left leaning centrist), the only reason I say that, is when I state one of my views, I get shit from both sides, but usually a little bit less from the left. It's more disagreeing with me, than agreeing. Kind of exhausting...
Quote from: Munch on June 17, 2018, 07:09:53 AM
I call bullshit, when you open a topic doing just that, against white people.
And since you are mixed race, this isn't one of those 'i can because I am' things, no, your just as bigoted as those you accuse
This thread isn't anti-white. Seriously, are you that insecure?
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 17, 2018, 04:19:09 PM
This thread isn't anti-white. Seriously, are you that insecure?
Quotebut I certainly understand why since white people are the one's who benefit from this ideology at the cost of everyone else
sure its not. And saying minstrel shows were just wholesome entertainment isn't insulting black people.
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/67/d9/c2/67d9c20770b0cf0ef56bdad1cd582e82---days-american-history.jpg)
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 17, 2018, 12:45:52 PM
I think I know where you are coming from, Blackleaf, but what part of the bible is authentic--and authentic to who or what?
As I have learned, the entire bible is simply a conglomeration of what various people thought and it was stitched together from a huge amount of previous written work with most of the unused portions destroyed. It seems to me that all of the bible (new and old) was created to control the general population. In that respect, it has been wildly successful!
Leaders were always trying to find ways to cement their power; the term 'christ' is an example. When one was anointed with oil and deemed a Christ, one was then under the control of god and what one said and did was from god. Romans 13 very early did the same for Christians. The Divine Right of Kings has long haunted and controlled history and kept those in power in power. The French Revolution tried to change that--liberals come from the word 'liberty' and they wanted to liberate society from the clutches of Rom. 13 (Divine Right of Kings) while the conservatives wanted to conserve the old ways and keep Rom. 13 fully operational.
In this country today, Trump is seen as falling under the purview of Rom. 13--so all that he says and does is from and for god. This is one of the reasons he actually could go into Times Square and shoot somebody in the head for all to see and get away with it. Trump can do what he wants and his faithful will craft the reasons to support it.
By "authentic," I mean undoctored, and coming from the author it claims to be from. At least some of the letters attributed to Paul seem to be real, but this particular passage I have serious doubts about. I used to have a student Bible that had notes saying when certain passages were not in earlier manuscripts, or when manuscripts varied. It happened quite often. Some Christians use this to their advantage to dismiss contradictions, such as with the two versions of Judas' death. The version in Acts is suspect, while the Gospel's version seems to have been in the original texts.
And yeah, I find it funny that Conservative Christians consider Trump to be ordained by God, yet Obama was the anti-Christ to them. Heaven forbid they show an ounce of consistency.
Quote from: Munch on June 17, 2018, 04:43:44 PM
sure its not. And saying minstrel shows were just wholesome entertainment isn't insulting black people.
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/67/d9/c2/67d9c20770b0cf0ef56bdad1cd582e82---days-american-history.jpg)
Do you deny that Christianity is mainly a white religion, or that white people use their religion as an excuse to discriminate against minorities? I'm not ashamed to be white, but that just sounds like common sense to me.
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 17, 2018, 04:19:09 PM
This thread isn't anti-white. Seriously, are you that insecure?
He is. lol
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 17, 2018, 04:54:02 PM
By "authentic," I mean undoctored, and coming from the author it claims to be from. At least some of the letters attributed to Paul seem to be real, but this particular passage I have serious doubts about. I used to have a student Bible that had notes saying when certain passages were not in earlier manuscripts, or when manuscripts varied. It happened quite often. Some Christians use this to their advantage to dismiss contradictions, such as with the two versions of Judas' death. The version in Acts is suspect, while the Gospel's version seems to have been in the original texts.
And yeah, I find it funny that Conservative Christians consider Trump to be ordained by God, yet Obama was the anti-Christ to them. Heaven forbid they show an ounce of consistency.
Okay, I can easily accept that meaning of authentic. I get your point. That there are various versions of the bible should by itself cast doubt on all of it.
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 17, 2018, 04:56:52 PM
Do you deny that Christianity is mainly a white religion, or that white people use their religion as an excuse to discriminate against minorities? I'm not ashamed to be white, but that just sounds like common sense to me.
I deny that. Sounds like you've been indoctrinated. I prescribe a strict diet, one which allows for absolutely no legacy media. Or at least gain some perspective that isn't so american-centric jesus christ. 'White religion' lmao.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on June 17, 2018, 07:53:23 PM
I deny that. Sounds like you've been indoctrinated. I prescribe a strict diet, one which allows for absolutely no legacy media. Or at least gain some perspective that isn't so american-centric jesus christ. 'White religion' lmao.
First off, this is a thread about Christianity in America... so yes, this view of Christianity is going to be "American-centric". The thread uses exclusively examples from American history of Christianity being used to justify white supremacy... so why would we talk about Christianity in say Mexico, or Honduras, or Korea, or Spain or wherever? (More on that in a second though)
Second... so you would argue that Protestantism (i.e. "Christianity" in the states since they make up the majority, and as agreed on by both protestants and Catholics [who say they are Catholic before "Christian") is not a predominately white religion even though it's power structure heavily favours white leaders and is almost exclusively white in terms of clergy and hierarchy? Would you argue that politicians who hold power right now in our government, who run on platforms of their Christianity and how Christian they are, and who justify their policy in the name of Christ are somehow not using Christianity for their own power?
You would argue that Christianity hasn't been abused by the white majority to justify their mistreatment of minorities throughout American history?
And let's look at Christianity as a whole; have you ever heard of the encomienda and hacienda systems of Spanish colonialism? It's expressed purpose was to take indigenous Americans and Filipinos, turn them into slave labour, and do it all under the guise of, "we must convert them to Christianity!". The entire system of hierarchy in Latin America was based on the casta system, which is basically "Christian White Europeans" on top and everything progressively less white and less Christian is inferiour.
That legacy lives on to this day in Latin America, particularly in countries like Mexico (I focus it on the most because it's the country I am most familiar with) where the ruling class still predominately trace their heritage to white ancestors while indigenous Mexicans are extremely underrepresented in the government. This was all established under Christian doctrine, and while Christianity has taken a side-seat to race and class, it was arguably THE key player in making such an unequally stratified society.
Or look at the pope; how many non-white popes have there been? Even our first Latin American pope was of European descent. How many minority cardinals and other high ranking clergy are there in the Vatican compared to white, even though Latino Catholics make up the majority of Catholics?
You are so obsessed with being the antagonist to anything "left" that you are defending Christianities' role in some truly atrocious events in history (and the modern world). Don't even pretend to act like you are somehow less biased than anyone else or being more rational when you are going to that extreme just to be contrarian.
Quote from: Shiranu on June 17, 2018, 08:42:41 PM
You are so obsessed with being the antagonist to anything "left" that you are defending Christianities' role in some truly atrocious events in history (and the modern world).
Yeah, no I'm not you crazy weirdo.
Meanwhile, RIGHT NOW, 85% of south africa is christian and they have government-sanctioned murder of whites, grant whites less legal rights, and literally have affirmative action for the african MAJORITY.
But I'm not expecting you bigbrains.jpg to have any perspective. You think america is a decent enough sample size to make generalizations about the world lol.
Shiranu, you are really passionate about telling the evils of Christianity in the modern world.
Why not so passionate about the role islam has in it? Or would that offend people you know saying anything bad against it with the same derision?
Actually given what you just said Gilgamesh its no surprise, since in the same way certain people in the west don't think outside the bubble of their own creed, like certain people on this forum thinks the worst things in the world only extends to outside their front door. Meanwhile, despite having the ability to look across the world, the same people choose not to, and just live in their bubble.
I was friends with a white south African who moved to the uk due to the threat of what was happening there, his families fears for their lives, and so they moved and had to work their way up here leaving everything behind, that pretty much shook his family up, having to vacate their home because of the threat of being killed in their own homeland.
This is why I take some of the stuff PR says on board, being someones who actually needed to travel from country to country due to issues he faced there, Stuff like that you can't just read about and pretend to have that experience.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on June 17, 2018, 08:46:53 PM
Yeah, no I'm not you crazy weirdo.
So you deny that it's been used, and is used to this day, to justify racist policies by people in power, but somehow aren't defending it...
Mmhmm. Sure.
Also, are we just going to continue to ignore the fact that you know that the term "soy face" means, but weren't interested enough in such a funny phrase to look up what it actually means before using it as an insult? Like... am I the only one who finds that phrase hilarious and am grateful to the anti-PC crowd for creating it? I don't even agree with it and I found it funny enough to look up... how you gonna agree with it and not know what it means?
Quote from: Shiranu on June 17, 2018, 08:51:47 PM
So you deny that it's been used, and is used to this day, to justify racist policies by people in power, but somehow aren't defending it...
Mmhmm. Sure.
Also, are we just going to continue to ignore the fact that you know that the term "soy face" means, but weren't interested enough in such a funny phrase to look up what it actually means before using it as an insult? Like... am I the only one who finds that phrase hilarious and am grateful to the anti-PC crowd for creating it? I don't even agree with it and I found it funny enough to look up... how you gonna agree with it and not know what it means?
[admin]images removed -PickelledEggs[/admin]
QuoteBut I'm not expecting you bigbrains.jpg to have any perspective. You think america is a decent enough sample size to make generalizations about the world lol.
Well, since I was talking about the Americas and Philippines (i.e. about 50% of the global population of Christians)... yeah, I do think that is a pretty decent sample size. That is significantly larger than most sample sizes.
QuoteMeanwhile, RIGHT NOW, 85% of south africa is christian and they have government-sanctioned murder of whites...
If by "government sanctioned murder of whites" you mean being unable to respond to violence against police and the military, much less against civilians, than yes... I agree that is happening. I would just call that, "being unable to respond to violence".
Trust me, if the government is not responding when it's own people are being killed... it has nothing to do with race, it has to do with the fact the government has lost all power. One thing governments tend to not like, regardless of what ethnicity or what ideology they follow, is having their power questioned and their people killed.
Quote...and literally have affirmative action for the african MAJORITY.
Well, yeah, if you want to ignore South African history till literally about 10 years ago, that would seem weird.
Quote from: Munch on June 17, 2018, 08:51:37 PM
Shiranu, you are really passionate about telling the evils of Christianity in the modern world.
Why not so passionate about the role islam has in it? Or would that offend people you know saying anything bad against it with the same derision?
This might come as a complete shock to you, but I live in America... which is overwhelmingly Christian. So unsurprisingly my focus is more on Christians than it is Muslims. Just like I don't give "as much" of a shit about Hindu terrorists... that's not because I am granting Hindu's a pass, it's that I have no power in the slightest over their actions so I have zero reason to care about them. They are no more a threat to my way of life than Muslims are. That's not to say I don't share articles when it get's particularly bad (as I have about people like Modi), but it just means that it is outside my sphere of influence and I outside it's, so what good is it to get overly worked up about it?
Secondly, let's add up how many threads I have talked about Christianity being the great evil that's going to destroy society, then add up the number of threads you, pr, Gilga have started talking about how Islam is the greatest evil the world has ever seen. Fuck it, let's add up 1v1 how many posts I have mentioned Christianity in a negative light vs any of yall mentioning Islam as the greatest evil to ever blot the earth.
"Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." - Mathew 7:5.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on June 17, 2018, 08:53:38 PM
[admin]images removed -PickelledEggs[/admin]
Mhmm. Still don't know what soy face actually means but thought it sound cool, like a little kid saying "penis" because he heard a big boy say it.
How does it feel being some random youtubers cuck? I really think if you had a girlfriend (lol, right?) you would be first in line if someone like Pat Condell or that actual "ironic" soy-face youtuber yall keep sharing from Ireland was like, "Yo, we need to fuck your girl to protect the West from Islam!".
When you take farmland from whites without compensation, give whites less legal rights, give your african population benefits despite being the overwhelming majority, and claim that all of this is just because 'muh white colonialism' but its okay because white cucks like shiranu will be your forever-apologist in the west because they hate whites too.
Marxism really did a doozie on you bud.
(https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1517/39/1517392372765.jpg)
Quote...but its okay...
Except it's not.
Saying their are historical reasons for atrocities does not excuse atrocities.
I predominately blame England and France for WW2; they really fucked over Germany and left Germany in a position for Hitler to rise to power. Their lust for retribution rather than resolution was one of the key factors in Germany being so down-and-out when Hitler promised to make Germany great again.
Now tell me, does that statement mean I think the Nazi's were justified? Does that mean that historians think the Nazi's were the good guys?
oh sorry I've never read the bible.
Also seems like you care enough to often criticize any criticism people like myself, PR and Gilgamesh have against islam, in mine and PRs case, we, unlike you, live in a part of the world where islam is growing across these regions and the violence that kind of theocratic indoctrination brings with it, but rather then understanding that, you just pass it off as racism because it hurts your fragile ego that someone might have a bad thing to say again what could be one of your 200th generational ancestor
QuoteMhmm. Still don't know what soy face actually means
we live in the internet age. Fact that you don't look it up just means you don't want to know what it means rather then being incapable of doing so.
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/soy-boy
Quote"Soy Boy" is a pejorative which is often used in right-wing online communities to describe men lacking masculine characteristics, bearing many similarities to the slang term "cuck". The term is based on the presence of phytoestrogens contained within soybeans, which have led some to conclude that soy products feminize men who consume them.
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/nu-male-smile
QuoteNu-male Smile, also known as the Soylent Grin, Soyboy Face, Nu-Male Face and Cuckface, is an internet slang term referring to a facial expression associated with men described as nu-male or Soy Boys who are photographed expressing surprise or excitement with their mouth agape. Online, a variation of Wojak referred to as "Soyjack" is illustrated with the open-mouthed smile.
Again, this thread literally had nothing that was anti-white, I even went out of my way to say I disagreed with the aspects of the post that seemed to lean towards anti-whiteness, and I am STILL accused of being anti-white.
Just how insecure are your complexion, honestly, when any criticism you think is some oppression towards you?
Quote from: Shiranu on June 17, 2018, 09:14:20 PM
Again, this thread literally had nothing that was anti-white,
LITERALLY IT DIDNT GUYS
(https://a.wattpad.com/cover/115665556-352-k103115.jpg)
QuoteAlso seems like you care enough to often criticize any criticism...
Yeah, I'm going to stop you right there.
I don't have a problem with valid criticism. What I have a problem with is when you post stories that are simply not true, such as the library burning or the no-go zones that even Fox News went back and admitted were lies.
I have a problem with articles that claim that in Sweden the police are doing this or that to favour Muslims by taking one quote out of context (or completely making up a police chief), that when you translate the entire article says something completely different.
I have a problem with videos that take 20 second clips from a full speech by a Prime Minister to make it sound like he is saying all white women need to start getting fucked by Arabs and Africans, when... no fucking shit... that's not what he actually said.
I have a problem with proclaiming that several hundred million people are all potential terrorists, should be deported or banned from a country, should be tossed into camps with horrible standards of living because, "it's what they deserve for trying to come here".
When I start saying shit like that about Christians or white people, then 110% fucking hold my ass to the fire for it. But until I do, fuck off with trying to act like our positions are anything the same.
Quotewe live in the internet age. Fact that you don't look it up just means you don't want to know what it means rather then being incapable of doing so.
I'm saying he doesn't know what it means, since the image he keeps on posting doesn't fit the description... nor do the overwhelmingly majority of pictures I've posted.
Jesus christ, yall really will grasp for anything.
Soy boy would have been closer, but that's not what he said so... tough shit for him.
Quote from: Shiranu on June 17, 2018, 09:20:06 PM
Yeah, I'm going to stop you right there.
I don't have a problem with valid criticism. What I have a problem with is when you post stories that are simply not true, such as the library burning or the no-go zones that even Fox News went back and admitted were lies.
I have a problem with articles that claim that in Sweden the police are doing this or that to favour Muslims by taking one quote out of context (or completely making up a police chief), that when you translate the entire article says something completely different.
I have a problem with videos that take 20 second clips from a full speech by a Prime Minister to make it sound like he is saying all white women need to start getting fucked by Arabs and Africans, when... no fucking shit... that's not what he actually said.
I have a problem with proclaiming that several hundred million people are all potential terrorists, should be deported or banned from a country, should be tossed into camps with horrible standards of living because, "it's what they deserve for trying to come here".
When I start saying shit like that about Christians or white people, then 110% fucking hold my ass to the fire for it. But until I do, fuck off with trying to act like our positions are anything the same.
When women being raped and beaten by mudslimes in no go zones skyrockets but its okay because now the government doesnt record the ethnicity or religion of sexual assault perpetrators and cucks like shiranu will deny the reality of the thousands of victims because 'muh social justice' is more important than actual social justice.
Quote from: Shiranu on June 17, 2018, 09:20:06 PM
Yeah, I'm going to stop you right there.
Your welcome to try, but nah.
QuoteI don't have a problem with valid criticism. What I have a problem with is when you post stories that are simply not true, such as the library burning or the no-go zones that even Fox News went back and admitted were lies.
you still think the no go zones are a lie? You want to believe that, because it suits your narrative.
QuoteI have a problem with articles that claim that in Sweden the police are doing this or that to favour Muslims by taking one quote out of context (or completely making up a police chief), that when you translate the entire article says something completely different.
So cause of one article thats proof that all mass migration is perfect and there isn't a crocked system in place? right..
QuoteI have a problem with videos that take 20 second clips from a full speech by a Prime Minister to make it sound like he is saying all white women need to start getting fucked by Arabs and Africans, when... no fucking shit... that's not what he actually said.
And anyone with common sense would have seen the entire video and come to the conclusion thats what it was.
QuoteI have a problem with proclaiming that several hundred million people are all potential terrorists, should be deported or banned from a country, should be tossed into camps with horrible standards of living because, "it's what they deserve for trying to come here".
or, you know, because the countries these people are immigrating to, don't have the resources to support them, and them being in camps is there own fault for being this mass collective of people who expected everything given to them, when some countries they immigrated to can barely support themselves.
QuoteWhen I start saying shit like that about Christians or white people, then 110% fucking hold my ass to the fire for it. But until I do, fuck off with trying to act like our positions are anything the same.
your never going to be close to any of these positions, on either side of the fence. I guess thats why you can only complain about Christianity like todays version is an evil theocratic empire, despite, you know, it not being so where you are, since you live in a secular country, but whatever.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/KDHkHNpM3Eht6/giphy.gif)
If that girl singer keeps that up, she is going to break something ;-)
@Gilgamesh [admin]Due to your recent posts, we staff have decided to implement a 6 month ban.
The reasoning is---
Repeated violation of rules-
5:No flaming, personal insults or attacks-----
6: No Posting of personal info-----
10: No trolling----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
Learn to play nice and be civil or get out.
This is your final warning. Next time you decide to act rabid on here, you will be permanently removed. I feel 6 months SHOULD be enough time to go over and memorize the rules... hopefully.[/admin]
Here is a link to the rules, since you seem to have such a hard time finding it http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=5589.0
Oh. And I didn't catch that "mudslime" comment until this moment, Gilgamesh.
Feeling a little bit extra good about the decision that was made.
Quote from: Munch on June 17, 2018, 08:51:37 PM
Shiranu, you are really passionate about telling the evils of Christianity in the modern world.
Why not so passionate about the role islam has in it? Or would that offend people you know saying anything bad against it with the same derision?
Actually given what you just said Gilgamesh its no surprise, since in the same way certain people in the west don't think outside the bubble of their own creed, like certain people on this forum thinks the worst things in the world only extends to outside their front door. Meanwhile, despite having the ability to look across the world, the same people choose not to, and just live in their bubble.
I was friends with a white south African who moved to the uk due to the threat of what was happening there, his families fears for their lives, and so they moved and had to work their way up here leaving everything behind, that pretty much shook his family up, having to vacate their home because of the threat of being killed in their own homeland.
This is why I take some of the stuff PR says on board, being someones who actually needed to travel from country to country due to issues he faced there, Stuff like that you can't just read about and pretend to have that experience.
The sins of one group do not justify the sins of another. Muslims are not the subject of this thread. Why bring them up? You're reminding me of people who say "what about Hillary" every time Trump is criticized.
Yeah.... Munch, you used to be so good at holding a conversation and more and more recently, you're relying on fallacies to try and back up your position...
No need to throw in the kitchen sink, and bring up unrelated topics. If you have a point against someone else's position and it holds water, it can hold water on it's own and not trying to do a "well look at what these guys did!"
You would be all over someone else if they did that against your point, so don't do it to them. Let's debate this correctly and productively, if we're going to debate
Quote from: PickelledEggs on June 18, 2018, 03:21:56 AM
Yeah.... Munch, you used to be so good at holding a conversation and more and more recently, you're relying on fallacies to try and back up your position...
No need to throw in the kitchen sink, and bring up unrelated topics. If you have a point against someone else's position and it holds water, it can hold water on it's own and not trying to do a "well look at what these guys did!"
You would be all over someone else if they did that against your point, so don't do it to them. Let's debate this correctly and productively, if we're going to debate
I do enjoy a decent conversation. But when certain posters start throwing around half baked political rhetoric with a hypocritical tang to it, sometimes the only way you can ground them is to call them out on it.
And if that involves opening a broader perspective based on examples and comparisons, so be it.
As for the article itself, why keep saying this has nothing to do with white people.. When the article is making it very clear its about white supremacy? Seems a tad disingenuous
Because it IS about white people, in that a story about political corruption in China benefits the Han population disproportionately... the race is not what's being held to the flame, the system they manipulate to benefit from it is. There is nothing racist or anti-white, anti-Han to point out that they are benefiting from a broken ideology.
To focus on the whiteness of it, for either side, is to miss the entire point of the article; that within Christian doctrine there is this framework for powerful people to exploit it.
That is all this article was about. It was about white people in a very limited context only, and one that entirely misses the original plot.
Quote from: Shiranu on June 18, 2018, 04:54:16 AM
Because it IS about white people, in that a story about political corruption in China benefits the Han population disproportionately... the race is not what's being held to the flame, the system they manipulate to benefit from it is. There is nothing racist or anti-white, anti-Han to point out that they are benefiting from a broken ideology.
To focus on the whiteness of it, for either side, is to miss the entire point of the article; that within Christian doctrine there is this framework for powerful people to exploit it.
That is all this article was about. It was about white people in a very limited context only, and one that entirely misses the original plot.
Actually after reading said article it isn't about white supremacy at all, it is about Romans 13 and how people us it to justify anything evil like slavery or shit like that center in Brownsville Texas. You don't have to be white to use Roman 13, but whit assholes often us it because it way created to defend such BS. I bet Roman 13 could be used for anything an asshat would try to defend.
Yes the author used "white supremacy", but it wasn't like he was shaking it all white pop no only the assholes. Which is totally different from many articles that so full of racial bias like Shiranu's bias for example that makes it seem more about white people in general.
Quote from: Munch on June 18, 2018, 04:26:24 AM
I do enjoy a decent conversation. But when certain posters start throwing around half baked political rhetoric with a hypocritical tang to it, sometimes the only way you can ground them is to call them out on it.
And if that involves opening a broader perspective based on examples and comparisons, so be it.
As for the article itself, why keep saying this has nothing to do with white people.. When the article is making it very clear its about white supremacy? Seems a tad disingenuous
I just don't think adding more half baked rhetoric is the solution to the original half baked rhetoric. If it is half baked rhetoric, like you are proposing, why not correct it or just make your argument as sound as possible. Whether your position is flawed or not, when you make fallacious statements and questions like that, it becomes flawed, no matter what...
I'm not even agreeing or disagreeing with either side with these last two comments, munch, btw... I'm just telling you that I know you have better tools at your disposal, no matter what your position is.
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 18, 2018, 03:33:29 PM
Actually after reading said article it isn't about white supremacy at all, it is about Romans 13 and how people us it to justify anything evil like slavery or shit like that center in Brownsville Texas. You don't have to be white to use Roman 13, but whit assholes often us it because it way created to defend such BS. I bet Roman 13 could be used for anything an asshat would try to defend.
Yes the author used "white supremacy", but it wasn't like he was shaking it all white pop no only the assholes. Which is totally different from many articles that so full of racial bias like Shiranu's bias for example that makes it seem more about white people in general.
... I literally started with a disclaimer saying I wish he hadn't focused on whiteness as much because it distracted from the real issue...
What does Romans 13 say vs what modern people use it for? Perhaps only what modern people read-into things matters. Yes, you should submit to authority ... say the authorities. Is it any surprise that authorities use ... authority statements ... to justify their authority? Is this a shock to anyone?
I happen to diss authority in general. If not, I would be an orthodox/orthopraxis Jewish person, not a heretic. Hasidic though, not Mitnagdim.
So if the war in Vietnam was the wrong war, then it is OK to protest every war? ... or every government authority? One can generalize it that way if one wants to. I never have, I can separate "wrong judgement" by authority from "judgement" by authority in general.
Quote from: Shiranu on June 18, 2018, 05:06:47 PM
... I literally started with a disclaimer saying I wish he hadn't focused on whiteness as much because it distracted from the real issue...
but you did so....
Quote from: Shiranu on June 17, 2018, 01:05:50 AM
Please daddy big dick, stop derailing my thread or I might just have to daintly slap you across your massive man bulges that make me pee myself.
Real talk though; you are kind of both a complete moron and a lunatic, should I be concerned about how quickly you found a picture of me from like... a year and half or more ago after making racist remarks about me? At the moment I am taking it as a complement, but just hmu if that is not how you mean it.
Wow, that actually sounds like a come-on... And I will guess you didn't mean it that way. Or?