I'm curious how many atheists lean to the right....
Can we please keep this civil? All you liberals have 1000's of other posts you can write in and I would really like to just have this one be the people who lean right.
Thank you.
Well, I am not an American but from the UK.
Not a liberal, or a millennial. Not Marxist indoctrinated.
A Conservative, old school. Atheist by birth.
Quote from: pr126 on May 31, 2018, 04:14:23 AM
Well, I am not an American but from the UK.
Not a liberal, or a millennial. Not Marxist indoctrinated.
A Conservative, old school.
Thanks for asking.
Guess i didnt consider that... what would be the UK title for a conservative?
Quote from: PureEvil on May 31, 2018, 04:18:44 AM
Guess i didnt consider that... what would be the UK title for a conservative?
We have Conservatives and Labour. Same difference.
The two parties have identical agendas. Except Labour is Socialist/Marxist.
Come to think of it, so is Conservatives.
What difference voting makes? None.
Same with the Americans. They just don't know it.
(https://us-east-1.tchyn.io/snopes-production/uploads/2016/05/mark-twain-quote.jpg)
Just to clarify PR here, what he means is the conservative party over here has in recent years seemed to adopt a more left leaning approach to things then at any other time in its history. If anything the current conservative party is today more like how the Labour party would have been 20 years ago
Munch is also British.
I am not British, but I avatar Churchill. American, but neither conservative nor liberal. Heretical theist rather than atheist/agnostic.
So basically the UK has no real conservative representation anymore?
If thats true it will be interesting to watch how fast it falls apart... but feel sorry for the ones who will have to live threw it.
Quote from: PureEvil on May 31, 2018, 05:03:55 AM
So basically the UK has no real conservative representation anymore?
If thats true it will be interesting to watch how fast it falls apart... but feel sorry for the ones who will have to live threw it.
Tories are conservative ... in a class way that we refuse to recognize in the US. The Republicans are our Tories.
Many claim, including some who live there, that yes, even Britain (let alone the rest of Europe) is falling apart.
Quote from: PureEvil on May 31, 2018, 05:03:55 AM
So basically the UK has no real conservative representation anymore?
If thats true it will be interesting to watch how fast it falls apart... but feel sorry for the ones who will have to live threw it.
Not conventional conservatism no. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm glad to be somewhere in the world where being gay isn't considered a crime anymore, but the current political system falls into it being the left leaning party (Labour) is full of far leftist screwballs, while the conservative party is more centre left now.
Quote from: Munch on May 31, 2018, 05:08:57 AM
Not conventional conservatism no. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm glad to be somewhere in the world where being gay isn't considered a crime anymore, but the current political system falls into it being the left leaning party (Labour) is full of far leftist screwballs, while the conservative party is more centre left now.
Political party names are lies as usual. Republicans are nascent monarchists. The Democrats are authoritarians. Laborites don't want to work for a living. Conservatives aren't (in GB) etc. and of course Communists aren't communist (that is a future state of utopia never achieved).
Actually, in the UK it doesn’t matter.
We are (at the present) ruled by the Eurocrats, so there is no real sovereignty.
A province/vassal state of the EU Empire.
We pay tribute to Brussels. Billions.
Quote from: pr126 on May 31, 2018, 04:21:01 AM
Same with the Americans. They just don't know it.
(https://us-east-1.tchyn.io/snopes-production/uploads/2016/05/mark-twain-quote.jpg)
I think you're generally right about Americans not knowing it. Either that or we are both wrong about the value of voting. I can't speak for Britain, but I think most of us over here, have had it drilled into us that it is a civic duty, and from that we extract that there must be some value in it.
If you say here, "My vote doesn't make a difference," you get a kneejerk response, "Suppose everyone felt that way?"
That's usually a discussion stopper, and it doesn't have a common kneejerk comeback. But when I actually think about "Suppose everyone felt that way?" Then I doubt that it would make much difference. Whether your vote doesn't make a difference or if you mindlessly vote without accurate information (not having accurate information isn't necessarily your fault. All we hear on TV is bullshit, anyway, and the Internet is probably even worse), the end result is going to be pretty much the same. The people who run the country for their own ends, are still going to be there doing what they do. Yeah, OK, it makes a difference, just not a significant one.
Sorry, I'm a liberal and was asked not to respond. However, I don't think my thoughts on the issue of voting are either liberal or conservative.
The word "liberal" for the left doesn't mean what it used to be anymore.
IMHO it has become very illiberal.
The liberals of today are authoritarians, 'my way or the highway'.
Try the word libertarian. Maybe it still exists somewhere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq86Beh3T70
https://www.politicalcompass.org/test
(https://www.politicalcompass.org/chart?ec=-1.0&soc=-4.56)
I'm Center-Left Libertarian, also called Classical Liberalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism).
Quote from: PureEvil on May 31, 2018, 03:52:21 AM
I'm curious how many atheists lean to the right....
Can we please keep this civil? All you liberals have 1000's of other posts you can write in and I would really like to just have this one be the people who lean right.
Thank you.
Just a tip. If you want to keep things civil, don't start with a confrontational paragraph, telling people they're not welcome, presuming that people are salivating at the mouth, just waiting for any excuse to start an argument. "All you Liberals have 1000s of other threads to post in?" No. We do not have Liberal-only threads here. Anyone is free to voice their opinions wherever they like.
I'm belgian, republican doesn't exist here. I am a Fairly liberal socialist, but have Noticed i have Some conservatieve opinions too.
Kind of middleground i think,though many tend to think they are.
Quote from: Blackleaf on May 31, 2018, 10:58:34 AM
Just a tip. If you want to keep things civil, don't start with a confrontational paragraph, telling people they're not welcome, presuming that people are salivating at the mouth, just waiting for any excuse to start an argument. "All you Liberals have 1000s of other threads to post in?" No. We do not have Liberal-only threads here. Anyone is free to voice their opinions wherever they like.
Except for porn, hate speech, death threats and the like.
Quote from: Blackleaf on May 31, 2018, 10:58:34 AM
Just a tip. If you want to keep things civil, don't start with a confrontational paragraph, telling people they're not welcome, presuming that people are salivating at the mouth, just waiting for any excuse to start an argument. "All you Liberals have 1000s of other threads to post in?" No. We do not have Liberal-only threads here. Anyone is free to voice their opinions wherever they like.
The point of writing it was because their always has to be at least one like you who just can't pass the topic by even though it was completely unnecessary for you to comment in it... but even when asked not to you still have to do it..
See what you saw was this:
(http://i63.tinypic.com/so8s5s.jpg)
Rather then saying "hey I'm not a conservative atheist" and moving on to the next post, you had to click it and read till you found something that offended you so you would have an excuse to reply and try to start an argument.
im considered right winged by some, but left by most
im just a bit left of center though
Quote from: Blackleaf on May 31, 2018, 10:58:34 AM
Just a tip. If you want to keep things civil, don't start with a confrontational paragraph, telling people they're not welcome, presuming that people are salivating at the mouth, just waiting for any excuse to start an argument. "All you Liberals have 1000s of other threads to post in?" No. We do not have Liberal-only threads here. Anyone is free to voice their opinions wherever they like.
BE GONE LIBERAL
Quote from: Sal1981 on May 31, 2018, 10:55:39 AM
https://www.politicalcompass.org/test
(https://www.politicalcompass.org/chart?ec=-1.0&soc=-4.56)
I'm Center-Left Libertarian, also called Classical Liberalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism).
Just letting you know that site deliberately skews its questions to produce results telling you that you are left. It's a social engineering tool to get more people to identify as lefties.
Quote from: PureEvil on May 31, 2018, 12:50:33 PM
The point of writing it was because their always has to be at least one like you who just can't pass the topic by even though it was completely unnecessary for you to comment in it... but even when asked not to you still have to do it..
See what you saw was this:
Rather then saying "hey I'm not a conservative atheist" and moving on to the next post, you had to click it and read till you found something that offended you so you would have an excuse to reply and try to start an argument.
I think you are over reacting. As pointed out this forum is public. Yes there are lots of liberal threads, and conservatives can and do post in all of them. I can't recall anyone telling them they weren't supposed to post in a thread, and conservatives often post in threads specifically to argue. That's what we do here. We argue. I prefer to call it "discuss." Some prefer the term "debate." Call it whatever. We argue. This is beyond your control, as is the issue of closing threads.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on May 31, 2018, 01:36:10 PM
Just letting you know that site deliberately skews its questions to produce results telling you that you are left. It's a social engineering tool to get more people to identify as lefties.
Yeah, at the end of the day, the questions were not very detailed - and assume that more religious somehow equals more on the right (I took the questions again and answered in favor of the religious questions just to see how that panned out). Also, correlation =/= causation.
(https://www.politicalcompass.org/chart?ec=2.25&soc=-0.56)
As I probably would've guessed, according to this site, somehow, more religious = more authoritarian & right-leaning which is bullshit. I do take these kind of tests with a grain of salt. Same as I did with the 8values test.
Quote from: Sal1981 on May 31, 2018, 10:55:39 AM
https://www.politicalcompass.org/test
I'm Center-Left Libertarian, also called Classical Liberalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism).
Apparently I'm Gandhi.
Me:
(https://www.politicalcompass.org/chart?ec=-5.88&soc=-3.13)
Gandhi:
(https://www.politicalcompass.org/images/axeswithnames.gif)
Quote from: PureEvil on May 31, 2018, 12:50:33 PM
The point of writing it was because their always has to be at least one like you who just can't pass the topic by even though it was completely unnecessary for you to comment in it... but even when asked not to you still have to do it..
See what you saw was this:
(http://i63.tinypic.com/so8s5s.jpg)
Rather then saying "hey I'm not a conservative atheist" and moving on to the next post, you had to click it and read till you found something that offended you so you would have an excuse to reply and try to start an argument.
Victim complex, huh? How original.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on May 31, 2018, 01:01:21 PM
im considered right winged by some, but left by most
im just a bit left of center though
Same.
The most ubiquitous character trait of leftists is their pathological need to control others... usually to death. They are sick people, treat them like sick people.
Writing here, because this is Ameruca.
Internet 101: Ask someone not to do something, and they will do it.
Quote from: Shiranu on May 31, 2018, 02:52:35 PM
Writing here, because this is Ameruca.
Internet 101: Ask someone not to do something, and they will do it.
this is a conservatard safe space pls respect our need to have our own space!!
(https://i.redd.it/16z5dyv58nf01.png)
FYI, I didn't enter this thread because I thought, "Oh boy! A Conservative I can destroy!" I clicked because I saw a username I didn't recognize. Even though you only had eight posts, I couldn't find an introduction thread for you. I had a feeling you were a troll, but it turned out you just joined four years ago, posted in two threads, and disappeared. I was also curious to see who considered themselves to be Ring-Wing. I posted because I found you obnoxious. Do not presume to know others' unspoken intentions, and if you don't want confrontations then don't start with "you people" or any of its variants. That's as close to pointing your finger in someone's face as you can get on the internet.
To your question, I am a liberal conservative or a conservative liberal depending on your opinion on the necessity of pine cones
Probably a surprise to most of you ... I scored ...
Economic Left/Right: -3.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.92
aka Gandhi. But that is funny, since I support peace, but will endorse selective violence.
Gilgamesh - I didn't find the questions particularly biases either direction. The analysis is of course, based on stereotypes.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on May 31, 2018, 01:57:13 PM
Apparently I'm Gandhi.
Me:
(https://www.politicalcompass.org/chart?ec=-5.88&soc=-3.13)
Gandhi:
(https://www.politicalcompass.org/images/axeswithnames.gif)
Then I am either standing on your head or vice versa....really the exact same spot as you.
(http://i68.tinypic.com/5o5lq8.jpg)
Frankly I think it would be fun to examine each question to see how far we really are apart. I don't think it is that much.
Quote from: PureEvil on May 31, 2018, 08:23:35 PM
(http://i68.tinypic.com/5o5lq8.jpg)
I'm going to be honest, I didn't even know it was possible to lean that far right on that quiz.
A few of the questions I wish had a middle option as I was really on the fence of agree and disagree.
But overall the results seem right to me.. remove religion and I'm about as conservative as they come. I would have just been slightly more down on the libertarian side I think.
Example would be the question on monopolies.... I really dont think goverment should be involved in telling people what they can and cant do in a business.... however history has show a few times where it was needed. Like the douch who raised aids medication to a retarded amount and I'm pro net neutrality.
So ultimately i disagree with it but i had to go with agree due to the few times it truly had to be done. I would have preferred an option in the middle.
Abortion would be another like that.. i dont like the idea of it i do think its wrong but overall I dont care enough about it to waste time on it.
Quote from: aitm on May 31, 2018, 08:44:15 PM
Frankly I think it would be fun to examine each question to see how far we really are apart. I don't think it is that much.
This would be great, pick any question and I will happily trade and discuss answers with you.
Quote from: pr126 on May 31, 2018, 04:21:01 AM
We have Conservatives and Labour. Same difference.
The two parties have identical agendas. Except Labour is Socialist/Marxist.
Come to think of it, so is Conservatives.
What difference voting makes? None.
Same with the Americans. They just don't know it.
(https://us-east-1.tchyn.io/snopes-production/uploads/2016/05/mark-twain-quote.jpg)
That is a fascinating idea and I don't agree at all.
Quote from: Baruch on May 31, 2018, 05:01:50 AM
Munch is also British.
I am not British, but I avatar Churchill. American, but neither conservative nor liberal. Heretical theist rather than atheist/agnostic.
It is pretty much a stretch for you to say you are not extremely conservative. Thousands of posts by you suggest otherwise.
Quote from: pr126 on May 31, 2018, 05:46:08 AM
Actually, in the UK it doesn’t matter.
We are (at the present) ruled by the Eurocrats, so there is no real sovereignty.
A province/vassal state of the EU Empire.
We pay tribute to Brussels. Billions.
Actually it seems that the EU nations are facing the struggle that US States had in forming a Federal Government above the,. The coordination takes time and trust. And more time. Give it a century...
Quote from: SGOS on May 31, 2018, 10:37:06 AM
I think you're generally right about Americans not knowing it. Either that or we are both wrong about the value of voting. I can't speak for Britain, but I think most of us over here, have had it drilled into us that it is a civic duty, and from that we extract that there must be some value in it.
If you say here, "My vote doesn't make a difference," you get a kneejerk response, "Suppose everyone felt that way?"
That's usually a discussion stopper, and it doesn't have a common kneejerk comeback. But when I actually think about "Suppose everyone felt that way?" Then I doubt that it would make much difference. Whether your vote doesn't make a difference or if you mindlessly vote without accurate information (not having accurate information isn't necessarily your fault. All we hear on TV is bullshit, anyway, and the Internet is probably even worse), the end result is going to be pretty much the same. The people who run the country for their own ends, are still going to be there doing what they do. Yeah, OK, it makes a difference, just not a significant one.
Sorry, I'm a liberal and was asked not to respond. However, I don't think my thoughts on the issue of voting are either liberal or conservative.
I think voting makes a difference. If it didn't, the government would have been in the hands of one party for decades. But look at what happens.
From Bush senior... Republican, Democrat, Republican, Democrat, Republican... That suggests voters decide.
Quote from: Cavebear on May 31, 2018, 09:51:12 PM
I think voting makes a difference. If it didn't, the government would have been in the hands of one party for decades. But look at what happens.
From Bush senior... Republican, Democrat, Republican, Democrat, Republican... That suggests voters decide.
Douches... flavored, natural, flavored, natural. What Mark Twain and I agree on is not about who or what we decide to give our vote to, because we do decide, all of us. The point is that the douches work the same way once you put them in the bag. Most people disagree, I think, but I think Twain was profoundly insightful.
I would say Trump is the perfect example that voting works or counts. He was not supposed to win and everyone in the media thought it wasnt possible, but they forget that the majority of the country is very conservative. If you look at the middle of the US its hard to find a liberal state. Unfortunately the media is based in very liberal areas and forget that not everyone thinks like the people they surround themselves with.
I am pleased to present my political/social location...
(https://www.politicalcompass.org/chart?ec=-5.13&soc=-4.46)
Quote from: Cavebear on May 31, 2018, 10:56:20 PM
I am pleased to present my political/social location...
That's exactly where mine showed up, although I was not proud to be located on a chart or pleased enough to post it. Basically, I didn't care what it said. I took the test because everyone else was taking it, and I was annoyed the entire time.
Trigger warning!
I am sure this will ruffle a few feathers.
The Permanent Adolescence of the American Left (https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/05/the_permanent_adolescence_of_the_american_left.html)
QuoteIn fact, the American version consistently denigrates "old white guys" as the scourge of humanity while ostensibly promoting the philosophy of "old white guys" such as Hobbes, Hegel, and Marx. In reality, American leftism is a unique amalgamation of socialism, Darwinism, and oligarchism requiring an army of foot soldiers who dwell in a state of permanent adolescence.
QuoteAmericans are, by and large, obsessed with finding "meaning" in their lives. For the left and its acolytes, the easiest way to achieve that meaning is either to be a victim or to vociferously champion the cause of those the enlightened leaders of the left christen with exalted victim status. This has the dual endgame of not only self-righteousness, but blaming the cause of the victimhood on a repressive and unfair society. However, it is becoming increasingly difficult to be a victim in 21st-century America, therefore new categories of victimhood must constantly be fostered, and the old categories never resolved. The latest: What heretofore was considered a serious mental health problem, transgenderism or gender dysphoria, is now victimhood on a par with racial discrimination.
Quote from: SGOS on June 01, 2018, 12:34:38 AM
That's exactly where mine showed up, although I was not proud to be located on a chart or pleased enough to post it. Basically, I didn't care what it said. I took the test because everyone else was taking it, and I was annoyed the entire time.
I took the test because I am always curious about such things. And I was "pleased" because it came out pretty much where I thought it would. I suppose I was "proud" because the result was how I generally think of myself and I think that is a good place to be. Nothing like a cheap quick test to confirm one's sense of self, LOL! But it is nice to know who comes out in about the same spot.
You Me and AITM apparently... Which does not surprise me.
Quote from: Shiranu on May 31, 2018, 08:57:22 PM
I'm going to be honest, I didn't even know it was possible to lean that far right on that quiz.
Being exactly on the line between libertarian and authoritarian seems suspicious. Like he took the test multiple times until he got the result he wanted? ;-)
Quote from: Cavebear on May 31, 2018, 09:42:48 PM
It is pretty much a stretch for you to say you are not extremely conservative. Thousands of posts by you suggest otherwise.
That is the "you" vs "you" thing we were just talking about. Also the survey uses predictable stereotypes. But I didn't bend my answers to get the result I wanted, I just used my self-intution. The 8Values survey showed I was the only Centrist here. It has a different bias than this survey did.
Quote from: Cavebear on May 31, 2018, 09:46:04 PM
Actually it seems that the EU nations are facing the struggle that US States had in forming a Federal Government above the,. The coordination takes time and trust. And more time. Give it a century...
The key difference, the EU constitution is shit, and their central legislative body is powerless, it is the bureaucrats who explicitly control things, and they are not elected. In the US, the bureaucrats also are the real government, particularly the security agencies, but this is implicit.
Quote from: Cavebear on May 31, 2018, 09:42:48 PM
It is pretty much a stretch for you to say you are not extremely conservative. Thousands of posts by you suggest otherwise.
So you have read over 20,000 posts, and in context as well? Impressive. Are you Evelyn Wood?
Quote from: Cavebear on May 31, 2018, 10:56:20 PM
I am pleased to present my political/social location...
(https://www.politicalcompass.org/chart?ec=-5.13&soc=-4.46)
See, we are both Gandhi. Want to meditate? Actually, from a Hindu POV, Gandhi was quite conservative. Since Gandhi never took this survey (or the other famous people listed) ... where they would be located on the chart is BS. But then, all monkey shines are BS.
Quote from: PureEvil on May 31, 2018, 10:21:10 PM
I would say Trump is the perfect example that voting works or counts. He was not supposed to win and everyone in the media thought it wasnt possible, but they forget that the majority of the country is very conservative. If you look at the middle of the US its hard to find a liberal state. Unfortunately the media is based in very liberal areas and forget that not everyone thinks like the people they surround themselves with.
The average person is pro-status-quo. Not the same as conservative. There is always a section of malcontents, who oppose the status quo. Some are conservative (I want to rape Bitcoin for my own use) or liberal (shut down all the banks, money is evil). Sometimes there is a temporary overturn of the status quo. Elections are a non-violent way of doing that. But all elections, and revolutions are temporary. Everything returns to the status quo after the protest marches. The status quo may shift a bit over time, usually a long time and in a random walk (not progress). This is why revolutions usually aren't progressive, just sociopathic. And why elections really don't change anything (they are useful distractions so the owners of society continue as before). And elections are too important to be left in the hands of Joe Plumber ... one has to count the votes ... to protect the children.
BTW - I am a Machiavellian. I consider human political nature to be basically evil.
Quote from: Cavebear on June 01, 2018, 01:04:12 AM
I took the test because I am always curious about such things. And I was "pleased" because it came out pretty much where I thought it would. I suppose I was "proud" because the result was how I generally think of myself and I think that is a good place to be. Nothing like a cheap quick test to confirm one's sense of self, LOL! But it is nice to know who comes out in about the same spot.
You Me and AITM apparently... Which does not surprise me.
And me too, which as you point out, makes no sense. You are easily pleased if you are praised by some brainless survey? Channeling SGOS here.
Quote from: pr126 on June 01, 2018, 12:47:00 AM
Trigger warning!
I am sure this will ruffle a few feathers.
The Permanent Adolescence of the American Left (https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/05/the_permanent_adolescence_of_the_american_left.html)
only good part of the article:
QuotePerhaps growing up in a nation that has not experienced any national adversity in over seventy-plus years or living in a country that has enjoyed the greatest period of peace and prosperity in the history of mankind has created this mindset.
Which is also only part of the article that makes an argument, rest is chide-standing and school-yard level of sophistry. This is the kinda shit that convinces you and you find solitude in PR126?
Quote from: Pr's LinkPerhaps growing up in a nation that has not experienced any national adversity in over seventy-plus years or living in a country that has enjoyed the greatest period of peace and prosperity in the history of mankind has created this mindset.
>"Perhaps growing up in a nation... enjoy(ing) the greatest period of peace..."
>Still in the middle of the longest war in American history
0/10, I don't think you are even trying anymore.
Quote from: Shiranu on June 01, 2018, 05:00:14 AM
>"Perhaps growing up in a nation... enjoy(ing) the greatest period of peace..."
>Still in the middle of the longest war in American history
0/10, I don't think you are even trying anymore.
Actually, I think the US is having a quiet internal political civil war which may be resolved in a few years.
Quote from: Cavebear on June 01, 2018, 05:07:16 AM
Actually, I think the US is having a quiet internal political civil war which may be resolved in a few years.
Yes, Super-Mueller will find where his wife put his super-suit ;-)
We can hope the the warring sections of the government won't engage in shooting or a coup.
Quote
PR126
Perhaps growing up in a nation that has not experienced any national adversity in over seventy-plus years or living in a country that has enjoyed the greatest period of peace and prosperity in the history of mankind has created this mindset.
Quote from: Sal1981 on June 01, 2018, 04:23:11 AM
Which is also only part of the article. [The] rest is chide-standing and school-yard level of sophistry.
I had a similar reaction to that video. As incendiary rhetoric, it accomplishes it's goal. It includes a wide selection of attacks on the target, and equally offends the left while it delights the right. But... and this is a big "But," it generalizes against the whole left with accusations that describe a small subset of the extreme.
While some of the accusations do actually describe a subgroup, they do not accurately describe the whole, and the generalizations are seldom, if ever, supported. They are unjustified claims assembled for the purpose of spewing hatred. I kept wondering who this guy is. He looks mature and reputable, but when he opens his mouth, he fails to explain why such an emotional level of hatred might even be justified.
He's a four year old hidden in a grownup body telling his parents how much he hates them. As parents, its good to recognize your child's true emotional state, and as parents, you make exceptions for that emotional state, because the child is four. But adults are expected to have developed a sense of reason and an understanding that emotions are something entirely separate from reason, and they are expected to explain their emotional state with a modicum of rational support.
Quote from: PureEvil on May 31, 2018, 10:21:10 PM
I would say Trump is the perfect example that voting works or counts. He was not supposed to win and everyone in the media thought it wasnt possible, but they forget that the majority of the country is very conservative. If you look at the middle of the US its hard to find a liberal state.
Quick question: where do you think people in the US live? Spread out evenly, more in the middle, or more towards the coast?
Figuring that out would go a long way towards helping you realize why the apparent sea of red on election maps is somewhat misleading.
Quote from: SGOS on June 01, 2018, 08:26:55 AM
I had a similar reaction to that video. As incendiary rhetoric, it accomplishes it's goal. It includes a wide selection of attacks on the target, and equally offends the left while it delights the right. But... and this is a big "But," it generalizes against the whole left with accusations that describe a small subset of the extreme.
While some of the accusations do actually describe a subgroup, they do not accurately describe the whole, and the generalizations are seldom, if ever, supported. They are unjustified claims assembled for the purpose of spewing hatred. I kept wondering who this guy is. He looks mature and reputable, but when he opens his mouth, he fails to explain why such an emotional level of hatred might even be justified.
He's a four year old hidden in a grownup body telling his parents how much he hates them. As parents, its good to recognize your child's true emotional state, and as parents, you make exceptions for that emotional state, because the child is four. But adults are expected to have developed a sense of reason and an understanding that emotions are something entirely separate from reason, and they are expected to explain their emotional state with a modicum of rational support.
Article or video? There is one of each ...
The video ... well, the Left isn't infantile, it is over 200 years old. Modern Leftists are descended from French revolutionaries ... and as the fathers of the original Terror, they were excoriated by Edmund Burke back then. I have to agree with Edmund Burke. Of course ignore the fact that France went from genocidal madness to military dictatorship to empire. Then back to monarchy. Are y'all Coneheads ... claiming you are from France?
The article ... yes, the American Left has heartburn over the last election. If they keep it up, being geniuses like Wile E Coyote ... they will fail again in 2018. For those who are still living out their youth in the 1960s (some of you are old enough) ... well maybe you need to grow up. Fact is, many adults fail to grow up. That is one of Jordan Peterson's points.
Quote from: Baruch on June 01, 2018, 11:32:52 AM
Article or video? There is one of each ...
The video ... well, the Left isn't infantile, it is over 200 years old. Modern Leftists are descended from French revolutionaries ... and as the fathers of the original Terror, they were excoriated by Edmund Burke back then. I have to agree with Edmund Burke. Of course ignore the fact that France went from genocidal madness to military dictatorship to empire. Then back to monarchy. Are y'all Coneheads ... claiming you are from France?
The article ... yes, the American Left has heartburn over the last election. If they keep it up, being geniuses like Wile E Coyote ... they will fail again in 2018. For those who are still living out their youth in the 1960s (some of you are old enough) ... well maybe you need to grow up. Fact is, many adults fail to grow up. That is one of Jordan Peterson's points.
This sounds like a parody of the guy in the video.
I'm a UK Liberal, which I think makes me a US communist. Or a French Tory.
I'm not sure.
Quote from: Jason78 on June 01, 2018, 01:27:49 PM
I'm a UK Liberal, which I think makes me a US communist. Or a French Tory.
I'm not sure.
Toy poodle, by the looks of it ;-)
Quote from: SGOS on June 01, 2018, 12:52:07 PM
This sounds like a parody of the guy in the video.
OK, you must mean the Rubin Report segment. He didn't say all Left is regressive, just some of it. If they regressed properly, they would speak French and set up a guillotine.
Quote from: Baruch on June 01, 2018, 07:24:58 PM
OK, you must mean the Rubin Report segment. He didn't say all Left is regressive, just some of it.
Laced into this typical type of generalized ranting, the snake oil guy often uses the tactic of taking a moment to step back and admit that he is not talking about the entire [
group being attacked,] but it's just an empty attempt to claim reason. But even after claiming reason, he continues talking about an extreme while attributing that behavior to the left as a whole.
So while you are technically accurate when you say, "But... but he said he wasn't talking about the entire group," the fact is he continues to refer to the entire group as members of the extreme, and his rhetoric doesn't support his vacuous claim.
This is a common political tactic. It's also used by some Democrats against Republicans, but not quite as often. Either way, used by the right or the left, it's a fallacy, acceptable as a tool for misleading propaganda, but not much else.
Quote from: SGOS on June 02, 2018, 07:54:20 AM
Laced into this typical type of generalized ranting, the snake oil guy often uses the tactic of taking a moment to step back and admit that he is not talking about the entire [group being attacked,] but it's just an empty attempt to claim reason. But even after claiming reason, he continues talking about an extreme while attributing that behavior to the left as a whole.
So while you are technically accurate when you say, "But... but he said he wasn't talking about the entire group," the fact is he continues to refer to the entire group as members of the extreme, and his rhetoric doesn't support his vacuous claim.
This is a common political tactic. It's also used by some Democrats against Republicans, but not quite as often. Either way, used by the right or the left, it's a fallacy, acceptable as a tool for misleading propaganda, but not much else.
If one happens to be a member of a group that is denigrated ... do you say "Not a true Scotsman" or "Don't trigger my sensitive feelings"? I happen to think that the Left is necessary ... as a corrective to the Right, provided that only arguments are exchanged, not death camps. I see the Marxist Left as inherently anti-human ... to Marx we are part of a giant historical machine that inevitably grinds toward progress ... which is an ideal mechanized society (now robotics and AI) where there are free lunches and no government (anarchism) ... and with death defying medicine advances, even death, almost ... is defeated. Heaven on Earth (aka Marx got it from Hegel who got it from Rousseau ... who helps inspire the French Revolution). If you study their biographies, both Marx and Rousseau were sociopaths if not psychopaths.
So ... we should instead use no labels ... there are no Democrats, no Republicans. We should support or oppose each politician on each individual current or proposed policy? Great, if you live in a small New England village where everyone knows everyone else. On the other hand, there are 1000 different Left groups and 1000 different Right groups (that share some insider ideology) ... how can we cope?
Well here is my position ... I oppose every utopian (as insane) and every politician (as grifter) .. so utopian politics is my biggest bug-bear. I would rather blow the planet up that have such maniacs (see Hitler et al) get too much power. Utopians should be in padded cells and politicians should be in jail. The Nazis should be, then and now .... exterminated. The Communists should be, then and now ... exterminated ... as the feral monsters that they are. Mad dogs all.
Quote from: Baruch on June 02, 2018, 08:14:58 AM
So ... we should instead use no labels ... there are no Democrats, no Republicans.
I don't have problems with labels, but we should use caution and be fair when applying them. That seems like the middle ground. Even then they can be abused, but I wouldn't throw out labels. They are still helpful. Throw out the water, not the baby.
Quote from: SGOS on June 02, 2018, 08:23:54 AM
I don't have problems with labels, but we should use caution and be fair when applying them. That seems like the middle ground. Even then they can be abused, but I wouldn't throw out labels. They are still helpful. Throw out the water, not the baby.
Ah, but you are one of the reasonable ones. Not like those on other forums/youtubes who are nuts. And it is those nuts who drive the conversation.
If you want to know who the conservatives are, start a thread praising Islam and/or feminism. You'll get your answer within the span of about five minutes.
Quote from: Baruch on June 01, 2018, 03:55:31 AM
Being exactly on the line between libertarian and authoritarian seems suspicious. Like he took the test multiple times until he got the result he wanted? ;-)
I only took the test once, answered how i thought and that is where it came out. I see no point in making up a false result.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on June 02, 2018, 08:38:39 PM
If you want to know who the conservatives are, start a thread praising Islam and/or feminism. You'll get your answer within the span of about five minutes.
I don't see the correlation. Myself and most of my friends are NOT conservative and yet we hate both islam and feminism.
I'm largely in agreement with this. I have a lot more common cause with social libertarians than I do economic libertarians.
(http://oi63.tinypic.com/11h866c.jpg)
Ye Gads! I'm off the chart.
(https://i.imgur.com/yckeTpC.jpg?1)
Quote from: Gilgamesh on June 03, 2018, 12:25:24 AM
I don't see the correlation. Myself and most of my friends are NOT conservative and yet we hate both islam and feminism.
i am a maverick. So are you. Are we both Sen McCain?
Quote from: SGOS on June 03, 2018, 08:17:09 AM
Ye Gads! I'm off the chart.
(https://i.imgur.com/yckeTpC.jpg?1)
No fair using Photoshop!
(https://i.imgur.com/n8WmF6H.jpg)
Yeah I tried it, but think I got infected with the uzumaki curse.
Guess I am truly neutral since everything meets at the mouth of the spiral.
Quote from: Munch on June 03, 2018, 08:28:13 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/n8WmF6H.jpg)
The test seems to say your twisted.
Undecided Voter
(https://i.imgur.com/3ref7Xe.jpg)
Quote from: SGOS on June 03, 2018, 08:36:43 AM
The test seems to say your twisted.
Life itself is twisted -- look at a DNA molecule. :D
Quote from: SGOS on June 01, 2018, 08:26:55 AM
I had a similar reaction to that video. As incendiary rhetoric, it accomplishes it's goal. It includes a wide selection of attacks on the target, and equally offends the left while it delights the right. But... and this is a big "But," it generalizes against the whole left with accusations that describe a small subset of the extreme.
While some of the accusations do actually describe a subgroup, they do not accurately describe the whole, and the generalizations are seldom, if ever, supported. They are unjustified claims assembled for the purpose of spewing hatred. I kept wondering who this guy is. He looks mature and reputable, but when he opens his mouth, he fails to explain why such an emotional level of hatred might even be justified.
He's a four year old hidden in a grownup body telling his parents how much he hates them. As parents, its good to recognize your child's true emotional state, and as parents, you make exceptions for that emotional state, because the child is four. But adults are expected to have developed a sense of reason and an understanding that emotions are something entirely separate from reason, and they are expected to explain their emotional state with a modicum of rational support.
So Trump is sort of a young Michael Myers from Halloween... Yeah, sounds about right.