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Extraordinary Claims => Religion General Discussion => Christianity => Topic started by: Greatest I am on May 07, 2018, 03:44:23 PM

Title: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Greatest I am on May 07, 2018, 03:44:23 PM
Do we owe Muslims another apology?

This link says yes.
http://bigthink.com/videos/maajid-nawaz-on-islamic-reform

This link says no.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQcSvBsU-FM

To those who think we should try to separate the good Muslims from the bad Muslims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drJCC2XXMBo

I do not think it is to the non-Muslim world to apologise to Muslims for the criticism we do of their un-civilized ideology.

Should we stop judging and criticizing those institutions of religion that are leading us away from a more civilized state?

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Have you tested the ideology of Islam? Is it good to you?

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Is correcting and criticizing Islam the loving or the hateful thing to do?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMJATBMebj8

Regards
DL
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Baruch on May 07, 2018, 05:25:25 PM
Unfortunately PC rhetoric, and Muslim apologetics ... both consider criticism unacceptable.  No freedom of thought, not freedom of speech, unless it is the approved kind.  That pretty much sums up totalitarianism.  The PC and Muslim folks know their systems can't stand up to criticism, so they attempt to ban criticism.  One attempts this with ideology.  The other attempts this with theology.

No, the PC folks and the Muslims (and others) owe the world an apology for being douches.  The Israelis do the same (secularly).

So ... "we (collectively) have the right to do anything we want to, but you have no right to do anything you want to, including criticizing us".  This is a power equation, where the claimant has all the power, and you are powerless yourselves.  If a person did this, we would consider them criminally insane.

Is criticism loving?  Depends on how you do it.  And criticism might not be enough, how about jailing or destroying enemies?  If ideologues and theocrats can do it, so can we.
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Greatest I am on May 07, 2018, 05:34:46 PM
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Unfortunately PC rhetoric, and Muslim apologetics ... both consider criticism unacceptable.  No freedom of thought, not freedom of speech, unless it is the approved kind.  That pretty much sums up totalitarianism.  The PC and Muslim folks know their systems can't stand up to criticism, so they attempt to ban criticism.  One attempts this with ideology.  The other attempts this with theology.

No, the PC folks and the Muslims (and others) owe the world an apology for being douches.  The Israelis do the same (secularly).

So ... "we (collectively) have the right to do anything we want to, but you have no right to do anything you want to, including criticizing us".  This is a power equation, where the claimant has all the power, and you are powerless yourselves.  If a person did this, we would consider them criminally insane.

Is criticism loving?  Depends on how you do it.  And criticism might not be enough, how about jailing or destroying enemies?  If ideologues and theocrats can do it, so can we.

Indeed. Reciprocity is fair play.

I think if the alt left had put Muslim and Jihad or terrorist in the same sentence, Trump would never have gotten elected.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Baruch on May 07, 2018, 05:47:42 PM
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Indeed. Reciprocity is fair play.

I think if the alt left had put Muslim and Jihad or terrorist in the same sentence, Trump would never have gotten elected.

Regards
DL

The point of Marxism is to destroy the West, and the Left sees the Muslims as useful idiots (with weapons).
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: pr126 on May 07, 2018, 11:56:52 PM
Quote
The point of Marxism is to destroy the West, and the Left sees the Muslims as useful idiots (with weapons).

Change the words "useful idiots" to "wrecking balls".

When the wrecking is done, the Marxist and the Muslims can fight each other.
I suspect there will be only one winner. It won't be the Marxist.

Old Indian proverb: "When you ride a tiger you can never dismount."



Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: pr126 on May 08, 2018, 02:18:00 AM
Think about this for a moment.

Quran 3:110
Yusuf Ali: Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah.

Quran 8:55
Shakir: Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe.


Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Baruch on May 08, 2018, 04:15:23 AM
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Think about this for a moment.

Quran 3:110
Yusuf Ali: Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah.

Quran 8:55
Shakir: Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe.

Group confidence.  That is something Europe has little of.  Say Sweden, who has no idea why anyone would want to be Swedish.  We aren't quite that gone in the US.  See, with futurism, you are always planning on putting your own society in the dust bin of history, doing your enemies work for them.
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: pr126 on May 08, 2018, 04:28:25 AM
The idea is to deconstruct society, do away with the family, set all groups against each other, divide and rule.

Critical Theory, the Frankfurt School, The Fabian Society, Marxist idelogy, Common Purpose, globalism and Islam all working towards the same goal.

You will have Utopia. Even if it kills you.



Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Baruch on May 08, 2018, 06:51:16 AM
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The idea is to deconstruct society, do away with the family, set all groups against each other, divide and rule.

Critical Theory, the Frankfurt School, The Fabian Society, Marxist idelogy, Common Purpose, globalism and Islam all working towards the same goal.

You will have Utopia. Even if it kills you.

As long as gays can marry (I am fine with that) and as long as women jail all men (I am not fine with that) then genocide is OK, right?
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Greatest I am on May 09, 2018, 09:18:27 AM
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The point of Marxism is to destroy the West, and the Left sees the Muslims as useful idiots (with weapons).

In the evolution of political systems, you will find cooperastion is some instances and competition in others.

We seem to ignore that cooperation is a better road to survival of the fittest than competition.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Greatest I am on May 09, 2018, 09:21:13 AM
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Think about this for a moment.

Quran 3:110
Yusuf Ali: Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah.

Quran 8:55
Shakir: Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe.




Every God uses the carrot and stick and every bunch of believers are the special ones.

That is a given with idol worshipers of imaginary Gods.

Regards
DL

Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Greatest I am on May 09, 2018, 09:25:13 AM
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The idea is to deconstruct society, do away with the family, set all groups against each other, divide and rule.

Critical Theory, the Frankfurt School, The Fabian Society, Marxist idelogy, Common Purpose, globalism and Islam all working towards the same goal.

You will have Utopia. Even if it kills you.


Utopia = being bored to death.

Some sages and gurus are beginning to propose that in about 50 years, 50% of the population will choose suicide because of boredom.

We see the suicide rate in children today growing in more secluded areas due to boredom.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Cavebear on May 09, 2018, 10:05:06 AM
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Utopia = being bored to death.

Some sages and gurus are beginning to propose that in about 50 years, 50% of the population will choose suicide because of boredom.

We see the suicide rate in children today growing in more secluded areas due to boredom.

Regards
DL

Basing an arguement on what "Some sages and gurus are beginning to propose" about mass suicides in the future has got to be one of the silliest weakest arguments I've ever seen...
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Baruch on May 09, 2018, 12:57:02 PM
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Utopia = being bored to death.

Some sages and gurus are beginning to propose that in about 50 years, 50% of the population will choose suicide because of boredom.

We see the suicide rate in children today growing in more secluded areas due to boredom.

Regards
DL

Nihilism infection.
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Greatest I am on May 09, 2018, 02:26:37 PM
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Nihilism infection.

I would say more realistic than nihilistic. Perhaps if you get it from a Guru's lips it will be clear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZPF9tFRYYM

Regards
DL
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Cavebear on May 09, 2018, 02:34:14 PM
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I would say more realistic than nihilistic. Perhaps if you get it from a Guru's lips it will be clear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZPF9tFRYYM

Regards
DL

"Guru" equals "used car salesperson" equals  "religious preacher" equals "snake oil salesperson" equals "fraud".  I never met a one of them not after the last dollar in your pocket...
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Unbeliever on May 09, 2018, 02:37:52 PM
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The point of Marxism is to destroy the West, and the Left sees the Muslims as useful idiots (with weapons).
"Unfortunately, some wars are won by the side that is the most fanatical in a religious sense. The victorious leaders harness the holy energy of collective insanity."
from Dune: the Machine Crusade (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune:_The_Machine_Crusade)
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Unbeliever on May 09, 2018, 02:42:39 PM
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"Guru" equals "used car salesperson" equals  "religious preacher" equals "snake oil salesperson" equals "fraud".  I never met a one of them not after the last dollar in your pocket...

"I am surrounded by priests who repeat incessantly that their kingdom is not of this world, and yet they lay hands on everything they can get.”
Napoleon Bonaparte
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Cavebear on May 09, 2018, 02:46:42 PM
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"Unfortunately, some wars are won by the side that is the most fanatical in a religious sense. The victorious leaders harness the holy energy of collective insanity."
from Dune: the Machine Crusade (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune:_The_Machine_Crusade)

Well, first (to answer Baruch), the US left  doesn't align with communism except in his dreams.

Second, Dune is now considered to be an Arabian fantasy.

Third, the series went WAY downhill after the original.

Fourth, I never read 'The Machine Crusade' so I looked it up and I wouldn't read it for money based on the description.

Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Cavebear on May 09, 2018, 02:49:25 PM
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"I am surrounded by priests who repeat incessantly that their kingdom is not of this world, and yet they lay hands on everything they can get.”
Napoleon Bonaparte

Oh THAT is so GREAT!  Napoleon was a smart guy!  Well, except for the Russia thing...
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Greatest I am on May 09, 2018, 03:40:20 PM
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"Guru" equals "used car salesperson" equals  "religious preacher" equals "snake oil salesperson" equals "fraud".  I never met a one of them not after the last dollar in your pocket...


Not bright enough to attack the message so you go after the messenger.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Greatest I am on May 09, 2018, 03:41:41 PM
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"Unfortunately, some wars are won by the side that is the most fanatical in a religious sense. The victorious leaders harness the holy energy of collective insanity."
from Dune: the Machine Crusade (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune:_The_Machine_Crusade)

Inquisitions and Jihads work or the so called religions of peace and love would not use war and hate.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Greatest I am on May 09, 2018, 03:44:29 PM
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"I am surrounded by priests who repeat incessantly that their kingdom is not of this world, and yet they lay hands on everything they can get.”
Napoleon Bonaparte

As well as the cash you pay extra in taxes to make up the shortfall that the churches get exempted on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjRy29R4gP8

Regards
DL
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Cavebear on May 09, 2018, 04:47:26 PM
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As well as the cash you pay extra in taxes to make up the shortfall that the churches get exempted on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjRy29R4gP8

Regards
DL

Why?  I consider them all of the same view of us suckers.  Go ahead and bait me.  It won't get you anywhere. Now, if you want to discuss facts, I'm right here today.  For a while.
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Greatest I am on May 09, 2018, 06:30:43 PM
Bait you?

I was not even addressing you?

In fact, you are basically on ignore unless you say something worthy of a reply, which is seldom. I did make an exception here in case you just made a mistake and wanted to respond to someone else.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Cavebear on May 09, 2018, 07:08:35 PM
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Bait you?

I was not even addressing you?

In fact, you are basically on ignore unless you say something worthy of a reply, which is seldom. I did make an exception here in case you just made a mistake and wanted to respond to someone else.

Regards
DL

Up to you.
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Munch on May 09, 2018, 08:40:56 PM
I'll apologize to Muslims, right after they make up for all the gay people their faith has stoned to death, burned or thrown off buildings.

Whats that, Christianity hasn't apologized either? Who knew all faiths were just as fucked up.
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Baruch on May 09, 2018, 10:57:23 PM
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Well, first (to answer Baruch), the US left  doesn't align with communism except in his dreams.

Second, Dune is now considered to be an Arabian fantasy.

Third, the series went WAY downhill after the original.

Fourth, I never read 'The Machine Crusade' so I looked it up and I wouldn't read it for money based on the description.

Dune was a satire on the US/Western relationship with oil resources in the Middle East, and how it is all going to go tits up.  I do wish there were giant worms in the desert, maybe they would eat the terrorists.  Paul Atreides was a false messiah, and even he came to know that was the case, a successful false messiah.  His son however was the real messiah ...

Yes, American communists aren't communists, only Russian communists are communists ;-)
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Greatest I am on May 10, 2018, 08:33:30 AM
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I'll apologize to Muslims, right after they make up for all the gay people their faith has stoned to death, burned or thrown off buildings.

Whats that, Christianity hasn't apologized either? Who knew all faiths were just as fucked up.

All the revealed religions for sure.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Unbeliever on May 10, 2018, 02:00:56 PM
Is there such a thing as an unrevealed religion?
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Baruch on May 10, 2018, 05:03:16 PM
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Is there such a thing as an unrevealed religion?

The ecoli bacteria ... they live in your gut ... it is best that only the proctologist or gastroenterologist sees their religion ;-)

Actually per Mahayana Buddhism, truth is beyond any thought or language or attitude or emotion ... truth is transcendent.  It can never be revealed, but it can be experienced.  So per GIA ... he may have experienced it.  But he can never communicate it.  Pretty much Cassandra strikes again.  If you have to unlearn anything learned (aka bias) since you were conceived (What was the face of your parents before they were born?) ... you pretty much can't get there from here.  Nihilism of epistemology ... knowing is not knowing.
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Greatest I am on May 11, 2018, 02:44:22 PM
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Is there such a thing as an unrevealed religion?

Certainly. None of the knowledge and wisdom seeking religions have supernatural Gods.

Knowledge and wisdom might be seen as self revealing as we discover new things as we evolve.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Unbeliever on May 11, 2018, 03:10:34 PM
We may soon owe them an apology, after the coming war:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_UUataZJWE


As McCain sang, "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPRnTU6fO-g
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Greatest I am on May 11, 2018, 05:16:19 PM
An Israeli war is likely overdue.

Too many chiefs in the M. E. and not enough warriors.

Regards
DL

Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Unbeliever on May 11, 2018, 05:21:59 PM
Yeah, I'm sure the Christians believe Armageddon is coming soon, to a theater of war "over there."
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Baruch on May 11, 2018, 08:06:21 PM
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Yeah, I'm sure the Christians believe Armageddon is coming soon, to a theater of war "over there."

No, they expect a civil war in the West, and liberals being invited to a weenie roast ;-(

Auto-da-fe superseded by auto-da-hot-dog.

Israel under Bibi?  Not a good thing.  Iran getting too big for their britches ... definitely not good (see Cyrus, King of Kings).  Neo-cons promise this and that regime change ... and it doesn't always go that way.  We have been trying to overthrow Iran since 1979 ... hasn't worked yet for the coyote geniuses at Langley.
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Baruch on May 11, 2018, 08:09:41 PM
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An Israeli war is likely overdue.

Too many chiefs in the M. E. and not enough warriors.

Regards
DL

Old men send young men to war.  Ageist for sure.  I would send the rich old men.
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Greatest I am on May 11, 2018, 08:32:46 PM
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Old men send young men to war.  Ageist for sure.  I would send the rich old men.

That would be nice if we could make it so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIQynsWpBpQ

War may be inevitable, given that young men love it and old men love seeing it in them.
 
Regards
DL
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Baruch on May 11, 2018, 08:48:11 PM
Ares, Mars, Nietzsche ...

Avigdor Lieberman is Israeli Defense Minister.  He heads a secular party of former Soviet Jews who came to Israel after the collapse of the Soviet Union.  He may crave the destruction of of Putin ... and will show no mercy on Persians or Syrians.  So are secular people always pacifist?  Didn't think so.
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Cavebear on May 12, 2018, 04:42:47 AM
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That would be nice if we could make it so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIQynsWpBpQ

War may be inevitable, given that young men love it and old men love seeing it in them.
 
Regards
DL

I did not love war as a young man.  Seeking ways to get killed early was not exactly my idea of how to use up my life.
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Baruch on May 12, 2018, 06:39:43 AM
In the movie Anzio, 1968 film, stars Robert Mitchum (as a war correspondent) and Peter Falk as a Ranger.  Peter Falk's character says he loves war, his lifestyle makes him live more than anyone else.  I think at the end Mitchum's character paraphrases Lee ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNjp8B93nw4

Gen Lee more famously said at the Battle of Fredericksburg ... "It is well that war is so terrible, else we should grow too fond of it."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG2sSzoPKPE

I am at peace, because I choose peace.  Even if we are on the brink of WW III.

The US healed its bitter divisions by focusing its aggression against Native Americans and Spain.  Though some veterans of course, were never reconciled.  Many Confederates fled overseas to Latin America or Egypt (as military instructors).
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Unbeliever on May 12, 2018, 02:13:36 PM
Some people are still not reconciled. They think the South's gonna rise again. Maybe they believe that's the way to make America great again?
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Baruch on May 12, 2018, 03:17:27 PM
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Some people are still not reconciled. They think the South's gonna rise again. Maybe they believe that's the way to make America great again?

And there are Damn Yankees who want to march thru Georgia every decade or so.  Self righteousness doesn't respect party.  I am reconciled ... but if you pay attention to real people, rather than ideals, it is clear that many people are still problematic.  To be reconciled, I had to avoid ideology ... to appreciate the arguments on both sides, and see the whole conflict at tragedy (as history alway is).  Human beings are always in conflict, and history is always tragedy.  So I can't take idealistic POV seriously.
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Greatest I am on May 12, 2018, 04:57:52 PM
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Ares, Mars, Nietzsche ...

Avigdor Lieberman is Israeli Defense Minister.  He heads a secular party of former Soviet Jews who came to Israel after the collapse of the Soviet Union.  He may crave the destruction of of Putin ... and will show no mercy on Persians or Syrians.  So are secular people always pacifist?  Didn't think so.

So are secular people always pacifist?

Hell no. War is justifiable.

The West against Germany and the North against the slave owning South are two wars that were well worth the fight.

I do not turn the other cheek, the Western version and not the Jewish version that is, and do not think evil should be rewarded with good.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Baruch on May 12, 2018, 05:00:09 PM
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So are secular people always pacifist?

Hell no. War is justifiable.

The West against Germany and the North against the slave owning South are two wars that were well worth the fight.

I do not turn the other cheek, the Western version and not the Jewish version that is, and do not think evil should be rewarded with good.

Regards
DL

See, we could be reconciled with Germany, after they were defeated.
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Greatest I am on May 12, 2018, 05:02:33 PM
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I did not love war as a young man.  Seeking ways to get killed early was not exactly my idea of how to use up my life.

That is not why we place war as the epitome of drama. I don't think you got what that link was saying.

Think of why you watch the news. It is likely more for the drama of the evil reported more than the good news items.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Draconic Aiur on May 14, 2018, 11:35:03 PM
Muslims if not hurting anyone maybe, if not bomb them!
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Baruch on May 15, 2018, 06:15:06 AM
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Muslims if not hurting anyone maybe, if not bomb them!

If a bar fight hasn't started, then get drunk, and swing the first punch ;-(
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Cavebear on May 17, 2018, 03:24:15 AM
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So are secular people always pacifist?

Hell no. War is justifiable.

The West against Germany and the North against the slave owning South are two wars that were well worth the fight.

I do not turn the other cheek, the Western version and not the Jewish version that is, and do not think evil should be rewarded with good.

Regards
DL

Atheists are not specifically "pacifist".  Rather, they recognize that a lot of wars are stupid, some are religious in nature, and some are just caused by neo-conservatives who want to play "Risk" in the real world.

And personally, someone attacks me, I'll bash his head in.  Don't make stupid broad judgements...
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Baruch on May 17, 2018, 07:18:25 AM
So liberal = atheist = pacifist??
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Draconic Aiur on May 17, 2018, 03:27:44 PM
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So liberal = atheist = pacifist??

So You think all liberal atheists are pacifists then eh?

 *Cracks Knuckles*
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Baruch on May 17, 2018, 07:55:27 PM
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So You think all liberal atheists are pacifists then eh?

 *Cracks Knuckles*

I made a question, not a statement.  The question was to Cavebear, since it followed his post.  Grammar challenged?
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Draconic Aiur on May 17, 2018, 08:18:13 PM
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I made a question, not a statement.  The question was to Cavebear, since it followed his post.  Grammar challenged?



*Cracks Knuckles*
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Baruch on May 17, 2018, 08:23:01 PM
Cracking knuckles leads to arthritis ;-(
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Unbeliever on May 17, 2018, 08:27:39 PM
No, it doesn't.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/crack-research/
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Baruch on May 17, 2018, 08:30:54 PM
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No, it doesn't.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/crack-research/

OK, so should I believe my mother, or some publication?  Are you sure it isn't about knuckle dragging?  That would get rid of warts.
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Greatest I am on May 19, 2018, 07:12:40 AM
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Muslims if not hurting anyone maybe, if not bomb them!

Two words. Honor Killing.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Baruch on May 19, 2018, 07:23:48 AM
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Two words. Honor Killing.

Regards
DL

The West has caused all evil for 5000 years, well 2000 at least.  The other human cultures are all Gandhi and shit ;-)
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Greatest I am on May 19, 2018, 07:31:00 AM
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The West has caused all evil for 5000 years, well 2000 at least.  The other human cultures are all Gandhi and shit ;-)

We have done our share of evil for sure, but we have also been the source of progress.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Baruch on May 19, 2018, 07:34:50 AM
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We have done our share of evil for sure, but we have also been the source of progress.

Regards
DL

Self hating people (in this case in the West) are a cancer.  They hate themselves and their neighbors, but they won't just quietly suicide or mass kill, like Marx they want to execute society as a whole.
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Baruch on May 19, 2018, 07:37:34 AM
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We have done our share of evil for sure, but we have also been the source of progress.

Regards
DL

Per Guns, Germs and Steel, it had nothing to do with people per se, just lucky geography.  The equator for example, sucked then and still does.  Using geography as the source of success, is even more neutral than other ideas of history which imagine that individuals don't matter.
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Greatest I am on May 19, 2018, 08:03:59 AM
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Self hating people (in this case in the West) are a cancer.  They hate themselves and their neighbors, but they won't just quietly suicide or mass kill, like Marx they want to execute society as a whole.

I do not see many self-haters but do see many who love enough to do the charitable works that have almost eliminated poverty, the source of much evil.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?
Post by: Cavebear on May 19, 2018, 08:59:34 AM
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I do not see many self-haters but do see many who love enough to do the charitable works that have almost eliminated poverty, the source of much evil.

Regards
DL

The theistic "I'll get to heaven because I spooned soup to the poor" are in for a big surprise when they don't wake up in Heaven.  Because they won't 'wake up" anywhere ever.  They will be as dead as that poor spider they stomped in disgust the day before they died.  And they assumed THAT was dead, right?

You think The Church (of your choice) has meaningfully reduced poverty and sufferring anywhwere  Well, after all this time and effort on your part, why do they still exist?  Because you DEPEND on their existence.  Without the poor and downtrodden, you don't have a purpose!  You are NOTHING without them to succor.  And beg money for (to support yourselves). 

Have fun with THAT!

Dead is dead.