https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zosKTK6yv7Y
SDS 2.0 with Weathermen/Symbionese Liberation Army
Sounds like MK Ultra to me, is Antifa just a cats paw for extreme Right? Weren't most 60s protest leaders, FBI agents?
Any group, I don't care what side or ideology or belief it is, grooming mentally undeveloped people or children, is fucked up in every conceivable way.
Let's make sure we understand what "anti-fa" actually means. It means anti-facist
Per Wikipedia "The movement draws in part from a tradition of anti-fascism in the United States which stretches back a century, tracing its roots to the 1920s and 1930s, when militant leftists were involved in battles against American pro-Nazi organizations such as the Friends of New Germany". So if you claim to be "anti-fa" you are promoting a liberal democratic tradition.
I hope that is sufficient to organize the discussion. If you want to be pro-facist, fine, argue for it. But don't try to make it some liberal ideology just not liking conservative views. Because I won't let you get away with THAT. Nazis are not the same as conservatives, but some conservatives are very much like Nazis in the basic ideology of National Populism. As is Trump. As are most of his advisors. As is his family.
Liberals aren't anti-fascist, they are liberal fascist rather than conservative fascist. These new guys are American fascists (just not the German kind). All industrial societies are fascist (authoritarian) ... try not paying the IRS. Founding Father liberalism ended in the US about 100 years ago.
Not all industrial societies are communist (ending private property). Germany and Italy were fascist (as was the US, GB etc). Soviet Union back then, was communist (and fascist). Being anti-fascist was lingo then for being a communist (aka Stalin better than Hitler) ... or anti-Axis.
But this isn't 80 years ago. We have to address the present. I assume, Cavebear, is that you are anti-authoritarian. An anti-fascist ... would be an anarchist (today). Liberal and anarchist aren't the same either. You could be anarchist in favor of old time values, rather than SJW fantasies.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2018, 03:22:29 AM
Let's make sure we understand what "anti-fa" actually means. It means anti-facist
Per Wikipedia "The movement draws in part from a tradition of anti-fascism in the United States which stretches back a century, tracing its roots to the 1920s and 1930s, when militant leftists were involved in battles against American pro-Nazi organizations such as the Friends of New Germany". So if you claim to be "anti-fa" you are promoting a liberal democratic tradition.
I hope that is sufficient to organize the discussion. If you want to be pro-facist, fine, argue for it. But don't try to make it some liberal ideology just not liking conservative views. Because I won't let you get away with THAT. Nazis are not the same as conservatives, but some conservatives are very much like Nazis in the basic ideology of National Populism. As is Trump. As are most of his advisors. As is his family.
What a group calls itself has 0 bearing on what it is.
Nazi's defined themselves as good. Following your logic, coming from a position that nazis were bad is now necessarily wrong - and if you think nazis were wrong, you are necessarily pro-evil because evil is antithetical to good - which nazis defined themselves as.
(https://cdn.psychologytoday.com/sites/default/files/styles/article-inline-half/public/blogs/93402/2012/06/97618-94264.jpg?itok=d6jDZtyu)
QuoteBut don't try to make it some liberal ideology just not liking conservative views.
They are not liberals, certainly. antifa are communists, and communists define liberalism as necessarily right-wing and fascist. Communists opinions of liberals, which is, "liberals are useful idiots" turns into "liberals get the bullet, too" when communists get into power.
Given the overwhelming evidence that points to antifa being shitty and wrong in every way possible;
if you are still sympathetic to antifa in 2018 you are either grossly misinformed, or are just a shitty person.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on April 07, 2018, 05:26:49 AM
Given the overwhelming evidence that points to antifa being shitty and wrong in every way possible;
if you are still sympathetic to antifa in 2018 you are either grossly misinformed, or are just a shitty person.
Does it even get to you that "anti'fa" means "non-nazi" and that by opposing it means you are "pro-nazi? If that is what you think, you can claim it but I really won't concern myself about your opinion after that.
Just as an afterthought, is the pay for being a bot very good?
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2018, 03:22:29 AM
but some conservatives are very much like Nazis in the basic ideology of National Populism. As is Trump. As are most of his advisors. As is his family.
lol no they aren't. American conservatives, when juxtaposed with american leftists, are revealed to be supremely anti-authoritarian. It's you fucks who want to give the government more power because you're all so naive of history that you don't realise giving the government power to reconcile a perceived problem in society only creates a new and bigger problem. Context and complexity go out the window with you people. It's all about 'feel good' politics. The solution that 'sounds' the best has to be the correct one, of course! It's so simple! You think every ill in society just needs government intervention, thereby growing the beast bigger and bigger, failing to realise the authoritarianism you hate so much is the very thing you're feeding.
Your average 55 year old 'Republican' conservatard want to grow the government in some areas, sure, AND STILL it's no where near the level that insane leftists want it.
But your average conservative youth in america? They are even more weary of government than their fathers. I've never met an american conservative under the age of 25 that wants to grow the government in any way, shape or form.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2018, 05:39:36 AM
Just as an afterthought, is the pay for being a bot very good?
You are easily one of the dumbest people on this forum. Worse than that, though, is that you take pride in it. Engaging the ideas antithetical to your own? Nah, fuck that. Just attack the character of the source of these ideas.
(https://i.imgur.com/iR8Dxvw.png)
Quote from: Gilgamesh on April 07, 2018, 05:44:20 AM
You are easily one of the dumbest people on this forum. Worse than that, though, is that you take pride in it. Engaging the ideas antithetical to your own? Nah, fuck that. Just attack the character of the source of these ideas.
Coming from you, I will take that as almost a compliment. If you are THAT fanatically disagreeing with an atheist like me, that means you probably have some problems or conflicts or issues here and I am not the main one. I would be pleased to discuss that issue with you in any detail.
I ignore personal insults myself.
I think you make my point...
Kay.. I'm just going to pretend from here on out that your irrelevant meanderings aren't a thing that even plague these boards. Half the time you are making 0 sense; the other half you are posting while deliberately ignoring the arguments levied against you in preceding posts.
The crying drawings are interesting. Do your posts make you cry so often? But if we can get back to some logic, that might be nice.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on April 07, 2018, 06:22:32 AM
Kay.. I'm just going to pretend from here on out that your irrelevant meanderings aren't a thing that even plague these boards. Half the time you are making 0 sense; the other half you are posting while deliberately ignoring the arguments levied against you in preceding posts.
I've been an atheist all my life. I seen twits like you come and go. Some are false atheists and recently, some are bots. It isn't going to change anything about the way I think and it isn't going to change anything about how I live my routine atheist life or how I post.
Your insults are water off the duck's back to me. I've seen much better ones and I really don't care. If your intent is to wreck the site, do your best. It won't change MY life.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2018, 06:37:29 AM
I've been an atheist all my life. I seen twits like you come and go. Some are false atheists and recently, some are bots. It isn't going to change anything about the way I think and it isn't going to change anything about how I live my routine atheist life or how I post.
Your insults are water off the duck's back to me. I've seen much better ones and I really don't care. If your intent is to wreck the site, do your best. It won't change MY life.
Assertion: You are attempting to frame me as something other than an atheist on this, an atheist board, so as to gain support of the collective to come fight the good fight against your opposition. That
both our atheism is completely irrelevant to this discussion lends credence to this hypothesis.
If this is true, this would indicate that you are a weak-minded little coward.
And it is true, and you are a weak-minded little twerp. A weak-minded little twerp encompassed in a frail old body whos years should've seen him become more than that. It's a sad thing but not uncommon in this sad, sick world.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on April 07, 2018, 06:41:47 AM
Assertion: You are attempting to frame me as something other than an atheist on this, an atheist board, so as to gain support of the collective to come fight the good fight against your opposition. That both our atheism is completely irrelevant to this discussion lends credence to this hypothesis.
If this is true, this would indicate that you are a weak-minded little coward.
And it is true, and you are a weak-minded little twerp. A weak-minded little twerp encompassed in a frail old body whos years should've seen him become more than that. It's a sad thing but not uncommon in this sad, sick world.
So what exactly IS your complaint about me if we are both atheists? I am becoming vaguely curious. If there is something we generally disagree about, please be specific. Because quite frankly, I don't know who the heck you ARE or why you are so angry at me. At least give me your reasons, LOL!
Make your self great, explain what big disagreement we have.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2018, 06:51:24 AM
So what exactly IS your complaint about me if we are both atheists? I am becoming vaguely curious. If there is something we generally disagree about, please be specific.
Read the first page in this thread. You have memory problems. We were disagreeing on something that has nothing to do with atheism just fine. You red-herringed 'atheism' out of your asshole.
Your implication that because we're both atheists means we must agree on all or most things is a cop-out. You know why you brought up atheism, and it wasn't because that's what you think, you disingenuous little weakling.
Now, certainly you believe all atheists *should* agree on all or most things, because you're a simple man who wants a simple tribe, all patting eachother on the back for their mutual agreement - but you know, despite your desire, that this is not what atheism is.
I'm not going to analyse your character any more. You expressed desire to get back to that specific thing we had contention on, and so, believing that expression to be one made in good faith, I'll steer it back there:
You posited that because antifa defines itself as anti-facism, it is necessarily the case that thats what it is, and it is also necessarily the case that its detractors are the anti-thesis of it - making antifas detractors, in your logic, necessarily pro-fascism.
Now, this position is self-evidently absurd, but I entered an analogy to combat it:
Nazi's defined themselves as good. Following your logic, coming from a position that nazis were bad is now necessarily wrong - and if you think nazis were wrong, you are necessarily pro-evil because evil is antithetical to good - which nazis defined themselves as.Upon reading, and hopefully comprehending this, do you renounce your original position, or do you have a counter-argument?
Quote from: Gilgamesh on April 07, 2018, 07:06:02 AM
Read the first page in this thread. You have memory problems. We were disagreeing on something that has nothing to do with atheism just fine. You red-herringed 'atheism' out of your asshole.
Your implication that because we're both atheists means we must agree on all or most things is a cop-out. You know why you brought up atheism, and it wasn't because that's what you think, you disingenuous little weakling.
Now, certainly you believe all atheists *should* agree on all or most things, because you're a simple man who wants a simple tribe, all patting eachother on the back for their mutual agreement - but you know, despite your desire, that this is not what atheism is.
I'm not going to analyse your character any more. You expressed desire to get back to that specific thing we had contention on, and so, believing that expression to be one made in good faith, I'll steer it back there:
You posited that because antifa defines itself as anti-facism, it is necessarily the case that thats what it is, and it is also necessarily the case that its detractors are the anti-thesis of it - making antifas detractors, in your logic, necessarily pro-fascism.
Now, this position is self-evidently absurd, but I entered an analogy to combat it:
Nazi's defined themselves as good. Following your logic, coming from a position that nazis were bad is now necessarily wrong - and if you think nazis were wrong, you are necessarily pro-evil because evil is antithetical to good - which nazis defined themselves as.
Upon reading, and hopefully comprehending this, do you renounce your original position, or do you have a counter-argument?
Wow, you are one of the strangest people I have ever met. What did I originally say that offended you to terribly? Apparently, I insulted you I expect it was desreved. but I have no recollection of it.
This is becoming odd, I still don't have the slightest idea of who you are. Is THAT it?. You want my recognition?
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/1ce24323d50b6b428fdfb45a33aa4ef2/tumblr_inline_onwlwnbGwN1qeqycx_540.jpg)
Quote from: Gilgamesh on April 07, 2018, 07:06:02 AM
Read the first page in this thread. You have memory problems. We were disagreeing on something that has nothing to do with atheism just fine. You red-herringed 'atheism' out of your asshole.
Your implication that because we're both atheists means we must agree on all or most things is a cop-out. You know why you brought up atheism, and it wasn't because that's what you think, you disingenuous little weakling.
Now, certainly you believe all atheists *should* agree on all or most things, because you're a simple man who wants a simple tribe, all patting eachother on the back for their mutual agreement - but you know, despite your desire, that this is not what atheism is.
I'm not going to analyse your character any more. You expressed desire to get back to that specific thing we had contention on, and so, believing that expression to be one made in good faith, I'll steer it back there:
You posited that because antifa defines itself as anti-facism, it is necessarily the case that thats what it is, and it is also necessarily the case that its detractors are the anti-thesis of it - making antifas detractors, in your logic, necessarily pro-fascism.
Now, this position is self-evidently absurd, but I entered an analogy to combat it:
Nazi's defined themselves as good. Following your logic, coming from a position that nazis were bad is now necessarily wrong - and if you think nazis were wrong, you are necessarily pro-evil because evil is antithetical to good - which nazis defined themselves as.
Upon reading, and hopefully comprehending this, do you renounce your original position, or do you have a counter-argument?
Quote from: Gilgamesh on April 07, 2018, 07:26:08 AM
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/1ce24323d50b6b428fdfb45a33aa4ef2/tumblr_inline_onwlwnbGwN1qeqycx_540.jpg)
And that is a BAD picture of my favorite companions.... Seriously, what is the argument here. *I* can keep this up all night and day...
Oh, I get it again, you must be a bot, so no logical arguement presented. Is that the way you want to go in this irrational attack?
(https://i.imgur.com/g6jKK4V.jpg)
The last resort of someome losing a argument is to show a cat.
Quote from: Gilgamesh on April 07, 2018, 05:42:41 AM
lol no they aren't. American conservatives, when juxtaposed with american leftists, are revealed to be supremely anti-authoritarian. It's you fucks who want to give the government more power because you're all so naive of history that you don't realise giving the government power to reconcile a perceived problem in society only creates a new and bigger problem. Context and complexity go out the window with you people. It's all about 'feel good' politics. The solution that 'sounds' the best has to be the correct one, of course! It's so simple! You think every ill in society just needs government intervention, thereby growing the beast bigger and bigger, failing to realise the authoritarianism you hate so much is the very thing you're feeding.
Your average 55 year old 'Republican' conservatard want to grow the government in some areas, sure, AND STILL it's no where near the level that insane leftists want it.
But your average conservative youth in america? They are even more weary of government than their fathers. I've never met an american conservative under the age of 25 that wants to grow the government in any way, shape or form.
Older Cold War conservatives, believed that giving the government absolute power, was temporarily necessary, to stop foreign enemies and destroy internal opposition. Basically John Birch Society types. But that isn't what we have had recently, though the George W administration was an echo of that, because his father was a Cold War guy. The generals are always fighting the last war ... hence the need to do Cold War 2.0.
Libertarians today (who are conservative) aren't necessarily reactionary, aren't necessarily Cold Warriors. They realize, back to the early US history, that a strong central government isn't a single edged sword, that it cuts both ways. If one party uses tyranny, then with the next turn of events, the oppressed party can take revenge. Then to prevent that, it is necessary to suspend elections, or to simply declare a dictatorship (in favor of one's own faction). Essentially this is Robespierre or Lenin.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2018, 07:42:21 AM
The last resort of someome losing a argument is to show a cat.
Have you read my message?