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Humanities Section => Political/Government General Discussion => Topic started by: Valigarmander on June 18, 2013, 01:01:52 AM

Title: Abortion should be banned because fetuses masturbate
Post by: Valigarmander on June 18, 2013, 01:01:52 AM
Something so stupid, it could only have been said by a Texas Republican. (//http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/06/17/texas-congressman-masturbating-fetuses-prove-need-for-abortion-ban/)

QuoteAs the House of Representatives gears up for Tuesday's debate on HR 1797, a bill that would outlaw virtually all abortions 20 weeks post fertilization, Rep. Michael Burgess (R-TX) argued in favor of banning abortions even earlier in pregnancy because, he said, male fetuses that age were already, shall we say, spanking the monkey.

"Watch a sonogram of a 15-week baby, and they have movements that are purposeful," said Burgess, a former OB/GYN. "They stroke their face. If they're a male baby, they may have their hand between their legs. If they feel pleasure, why is it so hard to believe that they could feel pain?"

That observation led Burgess to say he had argued for the abortion ban to start at a much earlier stage of gestation, 15 or 16 weeks. (This is less than halfway through a pregnancy.) He appeared to liken Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion, to the 1893 Plessy v. Ferguson decision that formally legalized racial segregation, and was not fully reversed until Congress passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

The rationale for the Republican bill, which advanced through the House Judiciary last week on a near-total party-line vote, is one scientifically disputed study, touted by Judiciary Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte (R-VA) in his opening remarks at today's Rules Committee hearing, that asserts fetuses can feel pain as early as 20 weeks after sperm meets egg.

"Well, I think all the members are cognizant of the fact that this is not a Congress that cares much about science," said Rep. Louise Slaughter (D-NY), the Rules Committee's ranking member, in her questioning of Goodlatte, who refuted that claim by saying that since 1973, the year when the Supreme Court legalized abortion, much more had been learned about fetal development.

Major medical bodies in the United States and the United Kingdom have refuted the claim of fetal pain before the third trimester.

The 20-week abortion ban, if passed into law, would set up a direct challenge to Roe v. Wade, which allows abortion up to the point of fetal viability outside the womb, and mandates exceptions for abortions in the case of pregnancies that threaten the life or health of the woman.

When first drafted, the 20-week ban was meant to apply only to the District of Columbia, over which Congress has a great deal of control. But with the arrest and murder conviction of Kermit Gosnell, who ran an illegal abortion clinic in Philadelphia, right-wing forces have sought to use justifiable public revulsion at Gosnell's actions to further restrict women's rights—and in contradiction to the common right-wing assertion of state sovereignty.

Former Rep. Marilyn Musgrave, speaking before a right-wing gathering in Washington, DC, last week, put it this way: "This is a time for the pro-life movement like we have not had in decades. We must seize the moment."

Goodlatte, in his opening statement, framed the ban as a measure to prevent practices such as Gosnell's, a conflation that Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY) termed "a red herring" which, he said, had nothing to do with the way abortion is practiced in legal clinics.

Rebutting Goodlatte's pronouncements on the stage of development at which fetuses feel pain, Nadler (D-NY) noted doubts that the study's own author, Kanwaljeet "Sunny" Anand, MD, had about its assertions, having stated in 2005 testimony that evidence of fetal pain in the second trimester of pregnancy "was uncertain."

Nadler also took issue with the tepid exception to the ban for women who were pregnant through rape or incest—a measure added last minute after Rep. Trent Franks, the bill's sponsor, said at last week's Judiciary Committee hearing that the incidence of pregnancy from rape is low. With the 2014 midterm elections looming, GOP leaders scrambled to avoid the kind of fallout encountered in 2012 when Republican senatorial candidates Todd Akin (MO) and Richard Mourdock (IN) saw their campaigns tank after making comments about rape, pregnancy, and abortion.

The exception applies only to women who "first reported the rape or the incest to the authorities," Nadler said, and, in the case of incest, the exception applied only to minors, even if an adult woman had been abused by the relative who had impregnated her since she was a child.

"It would be great if every rape or assault would be reported," Nadler said, but the Republicans' last-minute amendment—made after Republicans in the Judiciary Committee rejected a rape-and-incest exception offered by the Democrats—made no allowance for the toll often taken on rape victims in the judicial system, he said, including sometimes facing death threats from the friends and neighbors of the perpetrator.

"So, the authors of this bill apparently believe that women are too dishonest to be believed when they say they were raped or the victims of incest," Nadler said. "It is Congress siding with her abuser...".

There is also no protection for the health of the woman in the bill, nor an exception allowing for saving the life of the woman, except in terms defined so narrowly, Nadler continued, as to be virtually useless.

Democrats have been quick to note, as Slaughter did in the Rules Committee hearing, that the Republicans who voted the bill to the floor in the House Judiciary Committee were all men, due to the fact that the GOP hasn't appointed a single woman to one of Congress' most important committees.

So, when the 20-week abortion ban bill—deceptively titled the "Pain-Capable Infant Protection Act" —comes to the floor of the House of Representatives on Wednesday, you won't find Trent Franks managing the floor debate. Instead, GOP leaders have tapped the ardently anti-choice Rep. Marsha Blackburn (R-TN) to lead that charge.
Title: Re: Abortion should be banned because fetuses masturbate
Post by: the_antithesis on June 18, 2013, 01:53:58 AM
If the fetus is masturbating, doesn't that mean it should be killed because it is sinful?
Title: Re: Abortion should be banned because fetuses masturbate
Post by: Hydra009 on June 18, 2013, 02:16:30 AM
Painfully obvious, but I feel the need to point it out anyway:  a fetus having his hands on his junk =/= masturbation
Title: Re: Abortion should be banned because fetuses masturbate
Post by: Shiranu on June 18, 2013, 03:07:50 AM
Is it too late to abort Mr. Burgess?
Title: Re: Abortion should be banned because fetuses masturbate
Post by: DunkleSeele on June 18, 2013, 04:54:42 AM
Quote from: "Shiranu"Is it too late to abort Mr. Burgess?
It's never too late.
Title: Re: Abortion should be banned because fetuses masturbate
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on June 18, 2013, 07:21:53 AM
Well it's just a matter of time till he introduces the fetus porn video.. FETUSES GONE WILD! Watch as these little fetus go wild drinking mommy's booze straight from the umbilical cord showing off... just buy the fucking video.
Title: Re: Abortion should be banned because fetuses masturbate
Post by: WitchSabrina on June 18, 2013, 08:14:16 AM
:wtf:

 :rollin:
Title: Re: Abortion should be banned because fetuses masturbate
Post by: Solitary on June 18, 2013, 12:47:30 PM
Why is it that everyone that speaks against abortion are evidence it should be done by their lack of sound reasoning?  :shock:  :rollin: Solitary
Title: Re: Abortion should be banned because fetuses masturbate
Post by: Solitary on June 18, 2013, 01:12:37 PM
http://youtu.be/AoisqOGQIVE (http://youtu.be/AoisqOGQIVE)   Notice how tiny a fetus is. There has to be a time in its development that it becomes aware. And far as I know the law prevents an abortion after that time unless the mothers life is in danger. To think that an egg fertilized is a baby is ridiculous. It is also ridiculous to think that a fetus that doesn't have a heartbeat is a baby. When does a fetus become a baby?

 The Church originally said it wasn't until God breathed life into at birth. I think the way the law stands on it is correct. How many children are aborted illegally and the mother and child both die? This is a moral issue that should be private between a mother and her unborn child and not forced by religious dogma. We have millions of babies and children in the world that are human beings that are starving to death because the Church is against birth control that would prevent abortions.  :roll:  Solitary
Title: Re: Abortion should be banned because fetuses masturbate
Post by: SGOS on June 18, 2013, 01:25:51 PM
Quote from: "Valigarmander"Something so stupid, it could only have been said by a Texas Republican. (//http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/06/17/texas-congressman-masturbating-fetuses-prove-need-for-abortion-ban/)

Quote"Watch a sonogram of a 15-week baby, and they have movements that are purposeful," said Burgess, a former OB/GYN. "They stroke their face. If they're a male baby, they may have their hand between their legs. If they feel pleasure, why is it so hard to believe that they could feel pain?"
I'm not sure why the fetus might have his hand between his legs.  More likely it's just a reflex of grabbing on to something the way a baby tightens its grasp on your fingers.  It's been a long time ago now, but I can't remember feeling anything special in my penis until I was nearing puberty.  I just remember it being a thing for excreting urine.  I didn't give it much thought.  I probably touched it as matter of curiosity, but I really had little idea of the pleasure it would one day give me.  I think it's a leap of logic to assume this is a pleasure thing for a fetus.  Where to politicians come up with this stuff?  Do they bother to think these things through, or are they strategically playing to their audience?
Title: Re: Abortion should be banned because fetuses masturbate
Post by: Colanth on June 18, 2013, 05:10:18 PM
Quote from: "Hydra009"Painfully obvious, but I feel the need to point it out anyway:  a fetus having his hands on his junk =/= masturbation
Nor does it equal feeling.  The palmar reflex is just that - a reflex.  It's genetic - anthropoids born without it died in infancy.  It has nothing to do with being able to experience pain or pleasure.

But let's not allow reality to get in the way of religious idiocy.
Title: Re: Abortion should be banned because fetuses masturbate
Post by: WitchSabrina on June 18, 2013, 05:14:25 PM
Quote from: "Colanth"
Quote from: "Hydra009"Painfully obvious, but I feel the need to point it out anyway:  a fetus having his hands on his junk =/= masturbation
Nor does it equal feeling.  The palmar reflex is just that - a reflex.  It's genetic - anthropoids born without it died in infancy.  It has nothing to do with being able to experience pain or pleasure.

But let's not allow reality to get in the way of religious idiocy.


Oh that's a keeper ^^^   =D>
Title: Re: Abortion should be banned because fetuses masturbate
Post by: rickcopeland648 on June 22, 2013, 10:48:23 AM
Of course it's no surprise this comes from Texas, y'all... In fact, impinging on the privacy of a masturbating fetus is #308 in The Rick Copeland's forthcoming book "2000 Ways to Mess With Texas".

It seems he's jealous of philosopher-retard Lou-uh Gohmert and has decided to one up the master. If the master is indeed the now the student then Lou-uh's going to have to come up with something better than Al Qaida guys coming across the border disguised as illegal Mexicans...

Thanks for making Mike Lee and Jason Chafetz look good... Or at least better...

Question: Why don't female fetuses diddle themselves? Oh, that's right. Women don't do that kind of thing...
Title: Re: Abortion should be banned because fetuses masturbate
Post by: rickcopeland648 on June 22, 2013, 10:52:01 AM
Quote from: "Shiranu"Is it too late to abort Mr. Burgess?

He do be from Texas,y'all,  and they do love death row. That would be a retroactive abortion, correct?
Title: Re: Abortion should be banned because fetuses masturbate
Post by: GSOgymrat on June 24, 2013, 09:50:26 AM
I'll have to remember that argument if I am ever on death row in Texas. "You can't kill me! I masturbate! Here watch..."
Title: Re: Abortion should be banned because fetuses masturbate
Post by: Solitary on June 24, 2013, 10:01:04 AM
:-D  Welcome aboard GSOgymrat! Did you masturbate as a fetus?  :shock:   :lol:  Solitary
Title: Re: Abortion should be banned because fetuses masturbate
Post by: Thumpalumpacus on June 24, 2013, 11:38:23 AM
Quote from: "the_antithesis"If the fetus is masturbating, doesn't that mean it should be killed because it is sinful?

Masturbation isn't a sin in the Christian Bible.
Title: Re: Abortion should be banned because fetuses masturbate
Post by: SGOS on June 24, 2013, 11:38:49 AM
One would think that if an evangelical saw his fetus masturbating, he'd demand an abortion for his wife immediately.  Otherwise, it would be like giving birth to the spawn of Satan. :-D
Title: Re: Abortion should be banned because fetuses masturbate
Post by: Broede on July 08, 2013, 07:20:23 AM
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"
Quote from: "the_antithesis"If the fetus is masturbating, doesn't that mean it should be killed because it is sinful?

Masturbation isn't a sin in the Christian Bible.

I was going to argue with you about this, but you're (mostly) right.  I wanted to say that lust is a sin, but you can lust without masturbation and masturbate without lust.  The story of Onan and "spilling his seed" has to do with coital withdrawal.

However, from all accounts that I can see, sins spoken of in many verses of the bible, while not directly speaking of masturbation, can be argued to include masturbation, such as lust, uncleanliness and lasciviousness.
Title: Re: Abortion should be banned because fetuses masturbate
Post by: Colanth on July 10, 2013, 08:10:52 PM
Quote from: "Broede"The story of Onan and "spilling his seed" has to do with coital withdrawal.
The sin of Onan isn't spilling his seed, it's disobedience.  Christians (and most others) get that one wrong.